Yeterday, I spoke with a young elected in Ohio who spent the weekend canvassing for Hackett...he thought anything within 10 points would be great. This was an amazing performance!! Good work by the netroots and the job you all did at the DNC to get this race noticed. I agree with others on the net this evening...Hackett was a great candidate and we need him to run for something statewide in Ohio in '06

I believe to go overboard on how the loss of a House race in a stronghold for Republicans is a "signature" event will only lead to just that- more losses. Lacking an apology from the candidate to the President did not help the matter at all, but suppose it did make some foam more from the mouth, but that does not win elections as evidenced by similar statements and remarks during Kerry's attempt to be President of the United States. We have to grow up a bit and like it or not, learn from Karl Rove. Yes, you can bitch and moan all you want and just keep on producing zeros.

What did incumbent President George W. Bush get in this district in 2004...certainly he got over 60%, correct?

Awesome to see all the Republicans on the blog...must be a rough night, huh boys!!

What do the RNC talking points say about the Republican candidate in this district running 15+ points worse than President Bush did in 2004?

More garbage from the far-right. Hackett won for sure now.

When Hamilton County was reporting in its results, the website mysteriously went down.

Later on after the machine crash in Clermont, they had to handcount all the ballots but strangely observors weren't allowed in to see what they were doing.

And the website went completely offline. When it reappeared, the totals were inflated by thousands of votes for schmidt.

The only reasoning that fraud could not have happened, is this was an all republican district. But that's the only reason they picked it, because its a "safe" district....

Fraud won't be looked at so clearly when they are getting rid of republican votes instead of democratic. I have no doubt anymore that there's going to need to be a serious fight.

Elections are getting rigged, even and especially in the reddest of the states and people's votes are getting completely disregarded.

If the DNC doesn't take up this issue by the bullhorns now, and fight as furiously and as rigorous as Hackett has fought, there's going to be no turn around in this country in 2006 or any other time.

By using secret sourcecode and locking election observors out, fair elections in this country are dead. They're buried, and with this much at stake, I'd hope someone comes out with absolute conviction to stop this once and for all.

nick

These hateful people are not republicans or democrats. They are completely racist, disturbed radical extremists.

I just got off the phone with someone who voted in district 02- He is a veteran and his friends are veterans.

He's always been a republican conservative and is absolutely pissed as hell about the voting irregularities, he can't believe these bastards would steal the votes. He even said he hopes that the board of election workers in Clermont are shot for delaying the vote counting up to 3 hours. He said I quote "These fucking pigs do not speak for me."

This is the kind of country we are dealing with folks, its time to wake up and get to war against the status quo.

nick

On his Tuesday show, drug addict Rush Limbaugh referred to all Civil Affairs military officers serving in Iraq as "STAFF PUKE." He said it twice in an attempt to smear Paul Hackett, who served as a Marine Civil Affairs Officer in Iraq.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/2/15914/52380

As with ALMOST ALL of the Bush Administration members and conservative media pundits, Limbaugh avoided military service.
http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

Comment:

4 of the 7 counties went to Hackett and all in rural areas, yet at the last minute here was the modus operandi once again:

Smear the man until Rush Limbaugh hates him, then find out exscuses to steal the vote.

This is why every single election where progressives try to elect someone, they get screwed. Whether they are conservative, liberal, libertarian or anything else the voter who wants to change things gets screwed.

It's just plain time to end this. Like they said back in the west, this is war. They smear people completely and then steal their votes and lock people out......They don't represent anyone who has views other than theirs.

nick

Bush won this district by 65%

biggest zip code in the country for bush contributors is in this district

The GOP said they would bury Hackett, an Iraq war veteran. Who's insensitive?

Jen, Unfortunately, the GOP did bury Hackett just like they promised.

Only it was through two open actions.....smearing whatever they can make voters notice, and committing election fraud.

They did the same thing they have done since 2000. Very very obvious how they buried it.

nick

>The only positive this has for the Democrats is
>that this man ran on a basically DLC platform, not
>a liberal one, so if your party goes the DLC route
>it may pick up some seats

Not really...

The guy called Bush a Chickenhawk, criticized the war, and as another person said, called the blue heffer Bush a "bitch" and dozens of other things.

If anything - 48% of an ultra-GOP district just voted for an ANTI-WAR candidate, and that is exactly the opposite of the DLC.

What this also says is that Anti-War Iraq Vets running on the Democratic ticket can be LETHAL politicians. Especially if you sprinkle in a little church-going morality, LOL.

I blame the lazy a-- national party for Hacketts loss. All the big guns Bill Clinton, Dean and any other big name Dumbacrat should have been here to help Hackett win. A win here would have been a real kick in the gut for these jerks here. That seat in congress would perhaps have set the tone for the mid-term election rather than sitting back hoping to win. I'm sick of it.

Admin, I suggest banning Groenhagen/Ace II since he continually spews hate related trash and has nothing of value to say.

Speaking of other races like Washington, GOP Candidate Dino Rossi was set to win because of rigged voting machines. After they seperated it and did the paper ballots only, Gregorie became Governor of Washington.

Even whatever fraud happened in the city of Seattle, nearly everything favored Rossi. The same thing has happened again but this time they decided to get away with it in republican districts to diminish suspicion.

Click my name for an education.
nick

Rover - naah. Hackett did unbelievable.

He got 52/48 ...

In 30 YEARS the Democrats haven't finished higher than 30% in that district... this is a huge litmus test of what the rural GOP folk are thinking.

This must be why Jr. came out talking about "intelligent design" today, LOL - gotta distract distract distract and switch the topic.

to Groenhagen please leave. You have nothing better to do than bash Bill Clinton. He did not dodge the draft you f**cking idiot. He entered after a few years and got a low number. He didn't have a rich daddy to get him into the national guard. And he didn't invade countries for oil, and zero planes flew into buildings. THATs why he's not a chickenhawk. And Hillary will be the 44th POTUS, GET OVER it. Dean rules. And Hackett winning 48 percent in a district that still voted >60 percent for Bush in 2000 and 2004 is still impressive, incumbent or not. You are a loser, so is Shrub. GET OVER IT.

If anything though, this shows me that the only way the GOP can win even in "completely safe" districts is by stealing the vote.

That is completely shameful and absolutely pathetic. Only way to win is through election irregularities.

They are completely out of touch with america, and deserve to be ousted quickly. The riots are coming in the next civil rights movement.

nick

What this definitely means is...

DEMOCRATIC ANTI-WAR IRAQ VETS ARE
GONNA BE LETHAL IN 2006.

Congrats to Hackett!! This is the kind of fighting spirit this party needs. And you can really see who's more excited about this race, even if we did lose. The Democrats have it as their top story. On the other side, its not even on the GOP website. Keep fighting, don't give Republicans an inch and don't let them get away with ANYTHING!!

GO DEAN!!!

"To Groenhagen please leave. You have nothing better to do than bash Bill Clinton."

Bushhater: I totally agree with your sentiments, but I suspect Groenhagen's a lost cause. He'll probably never leave because being an obnoxious interloper and blog trespasser is what he does. It's his thing. He's one of those "angry white males" who's apparently pissed off because...well, just for the sake of being pissed off, evidently. But the one thing that REALLY pisses off such Bushies is that Clinton was elected twice, and even years later, they still can't let go of it. It's like a festering, open sore to them. I imagine Groenhagen will still be ranting about Clinton during the 2008 election, going on and on about blowjobs and Monica's dress stain, etc. Within a few months Bush will have killed off 2,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, yet for Groenhagen and his kind, it's all about Clinton, Clinton, Clinton...THAT DAMN CLINTON. Like an uninvited party guest that doesn't know when to leave, such blog-ranters are best ignored until they finally get the hint to go be obnoxious somewhere else. I'd suggest www.AngryWhiteMales.com -- everybody deserves a home with their own kind.

I see that OH Sen. Mike DeWine is up for reelection in 06. I say we turn Hackett loose on him.

50-State Strategy? Actually that might have swung the election. Way too little, way too late, and it amounts to pitiful trying to latch onto the very fine run. Enthusiastically on boaard July 21 was pitiful.

Hackett against DeWine is a great idea. Maybe the party will sign on from the get-go this time.

I am amazed that when push came to shove they allowed the people counting the ballots to go unsupervised.

Just like in familiar elections, the BOE's website goes "down" this time in Clermont and after 20 minutes comes back up with the GOP candidate having gained about 4000 more votes....Just enough to be out of recount territory.

Its pathetic because I see the writing on the wall all the time now. There is no wins, only fraud. Conservatives and Liberals both are being completely raped over by these radicals. When is the riot for our vote going to happen? People strongly disagreed with voting for this radical, and the board of elections has made it so.

Even still it put them all on notice-the radicals here need to watch out. Its absolutely disgusting when the only way these radical righties can win, is by completely manipulating the vote count. Taking away people's rights to freedom, and spitting on their war record or record.

nick

I agree with this person here.

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001651.htm

Democrats need to wake up fast; conservative and liberal voters who are disenfranchised are just going to turn off to the whole voting process.

They will officially tune out, thats the bottom line. If you want to win the war, you have to first wage the war for every interim election.

nick

IndependantVoter is just another uninformed hack.
If you'd have clicked on my name, you would see just what the voting process is about now.

Nobody honestly believes they are getting more votes, they just don't want to say anything. The point is machines do not belong in the process at all, databases crashing right before the elections close is red flag for fraud, and the fact that mysterious 51% leads and 50/50 splits devolve into "thousands of votes" for the GOP candidate is why elections in this country are now completely destroyed.

It could have been actual good news if it was a fair vote count, but this was not at all. It just proves these individuals will rig their own elections and thats the only way they win anymore. At all. It doesn't matter if they are all republican districts, or democratic districts or what because 100% of the time they stuff the ballots.

nick

Independant and others have no actual proof that their candidates win in this scenario.

This tells everything you need to know. The vote count was not fair, and has not been. This is a real problem when thousands of votes can just "appear" in the final 22 minutes on the candidate who's board of elections website goes down.

Only in a mysterious ES&S county does this happen, because the memory cards can logically be replaced and switched around. Gaming these things is too easy. Why does the website have to go down, until the GOP candidate can gain his/her 5000 votes? It makes no logical sense.

The results should be transmitted and open public record. The fact that they block officials from viewing the ballot counting, is completely opposite of that precedent. Unverifiable, non-transparent elections have ruined democracy. Now there's no doubt when they do funny business.

nick

Because this went identical to 2004. The election was rigged.

Hackett leads 4 out of 7 counties gets huge gains, 51% to 49% but Hamilton mysteriously pulls an extra 2000 votes for Schmidt, and then over 5000 in Claremont?

Please. I saw the same thing happen in 2002 elections. There's no reason that the website has to crash all at the same time, that the incumbent suddenly makes a huge amount of gains. Why is it that within those 20 minutes when the machines "stopped going" because of humidity, all of the ballots got counted so fast and 5000 new votes came to Schmidt?

Where did all the provisionals go, and who was really watching the count?

The DNC should get its act together, and stop accepting the fake speech of "the elections were fair and square, go back and rethink your party" because its clear that will never fly. These elections have NOT been fair whatsoever, and there is zero reason to accept the counts.

When the numbers are all tallied in secret, including by computer, there is zero confidence in the elections. When Rush Limbaugh can go on the radio and talk about voter fraud everywhere and how bad it is in St. Louis, yet ignore his own party rigging the elections in Ohio there is zero confidence to these results.

Its now come to the point that something must be done or the integrity of the ballot is lost. NOW, in this case it would cost 200K to do a recount/audit. I would fully HOPE the DNC is willing to audit the result and not back down regardless of who thinks they "won". If they did and went out Hackett style, we all might actually start believing in the democrats.

nick

Apparently the whole district went solidly Republican in the past.

Yet, Hackett won Scioto county, the largest of the four rural counties, by a two to one margin.

I know I live in a rural county (in Arizona) that has gone Republican for President and Congress lately (although Democrats still win all the county offices), and I can tell you that Mr. Hackett is precisely the kind of candidate who would do very well in our county.

Sandy: Don't even bother trying to make exscuses for it. Until elections are transparent once again and people can fully observe the counting, and know who is counting the votes there will not be anything else.

Elections have become completely unverifiable. Click my name there. And until candidates who "lose" under mysterious circumstances where there is much fraud decide to wage absolute war on those in charge, its not going to change things. Its about going all out at the grassroots and changing the election system.

Until that happens things are still stuck, and that will be what the DNC has to end up waking up to.

nick

Sandy, click my name. The evidence is clear and its never going away. MoveOn.org had nothing to do with any of this at all.

Hackett was a libertarian conservative running under a Democrat brand and he had all the right true credentials. The simple fact is, the vote counting is not fair at all.

It hasn't been for a few years, so its time to wake up and smell the coffee. Mysterious "locked out observors" and machines malfunctioning isn't new. What is new, is that Hackett virtually took the entire republican district. He won, my final bet is he won by around a thousand votes. Because of it being a close election, there was just enough fraud in Clermont, Hamilton etc to offset it.

That is the final answer, you don't get backwards results from nothing. The vote counting hasn't been fair since it was handed over to "secret vote counting" companies. That's just a fact, there is no reason to avoid the truth in any city.

nick

By the way Sandy, when it is YOU who are that delusional its time to really look at the facts.

http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMachineCompanies.htm

The votes are no longer verifiable, no one even watches who is counting.
Read that website? See who is counting the votes and taking care of it, I thought so. Now kindly stop stating otherwise, the fact is there has to be a real war waged here. The controlled vote counting can ensure ANYONE, even the most radical gets elected by small margins. Its a game, and you are on the wrong side of it with the disenfranchised.

nick

Posted by nick_t on August 3, 2005 at 12:40 AM

This is not necessarily directed to nick, but addresses his concern.

Do you think that the Democratic Deputy Directors and the 2 Democratic Board members allowed the repugs to mis-count or post incorrect numbers?

Believe me, there were Democrats in the room. And I doubt very seriously they were DLC/DINOS. They are appointed by their county democratic executive board to serve as the "keepers of democracy"

If there were discrepancies, they will found out and reported in the OFFICIAL count totals.

If the correct paperwork is filed by the deadlines, there can be observers of the election.

Maybe those with concerns should research before saying it's not permitted.

We need to work harder & smarter in educating not only the voting public, but ourselves as well.

Enjoy the day!

Ha.

The spin is now that Hackett was a "Conservative" Democrat.

If I were to ask the Conservative Trolls on this blog what they thought about a guy who opposed the War in Iraq, didn't oppose Gay Marriage, called the president and other Republicans chickenhawks, was pro-choice, and anti-unfair trade agreements. They would say he is a Liberal.

As for his stance on guns, heck even Gov Dean who the right-wing always loves to attack received praise from the NRA when governor of Vermont.

These positions by Hackett were not unknown, there were a few debates and lots of media coverage.

As for the spin being put out there by the right that Hackett didn't even say he was a Democrat in his ad I say who cares. Godforbid there is Democratic candidate out there who lets his positions speak for himself. It wasn't hard to know which one was the Democrat after all the coverage. The Republicans on this board are insulting the people of the 2nd District of Ohio when they say that they couldn't tell which candidate belonged to which party.

It is encouraging to see a democrat run so well in such a republican district! It just surprises me that he ran so well in the rural counties, but not in Hamilton County. Looking at the county by county map for the 2004 election, it wasn't hard to see that democrats did better in the bigger cities. Is there something about that portion of Cincinnati/Hamilton County that I don't know about?

I hope this close race invigorates us. It should tell us that no vote is a lost cause. We just need to get our message out. I know I live in a red county that has been slowly turning purple/blue and I hope to encourage that movement in next years elections.

MNDem, that portion of Cincinnati/Hamilton County includes the zip code that gave the largest amount of money to Bush in 2004 in the country. That county Bush beat Kerry by 4% in 2004. Hackett beating Schmidt in that county is huge. What hurt Hackett was the margin by which Schmidt won in Clermont and Warren counties, which are less rural now and more exurb counties. Clermont, Schmidt's lifetime home where she welcomed people to polling stations (breaking the 100 ft rule) and where she also was present in the counting room at one point (also illegal), and Warren county, the infamous county where a 'terrorist threat' meant they locked the vote counting office to any outside observers during the 2004 election. Does this help you? Hamilton County has a lot of diehard Republicans that are strictly partisan. They expected 10% turnout and got 30, last I heard. All in All, Hackett did brilliantly.

I would certainly hope that Chairman Dean makes the strongest possible protest of Rush Limbaugh's outrageous statements yesterday. This scandelous behavior is Unamerican and unacceptable. We must defend our candidates, ourselves and our country from the likes of Rush.

BB, I think it was just me and Lance that have been screaming about Rush and others for over two years now. Never got any love...

I see that OH Sen. Mike DeWine is up for reelection in 06. I say we turn Hackett loose on him.

Posted by Guy on August 3, 2005 at 02:14 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

50-State Strategy? Actually that might have swung the election. Way too little, way too late, and it amounts to pitiful trying to latch onto the very fine run. Enthusiastically on boaard July 21 was pitiful.

Hackett against DeWine is a great idea. Maybe the party will sign on from the get-go this time.

Posted by michaelj on August 3, 2005 at 02:32 AM

I think I mentioned this on the open thread before I retired last night. ;)

Sometimes good ideas from simple gals should be considered.

I would like to know when someone is going to do something to fix all this voting fraud! There is nothing being done to this date, that I know of, regarding the voting machines without any paper trail and nothing being done regarding the electoral votes ending and a popular vote counting. What is the problem here??!! Are we waiting for another fixed election and more of the Republicans running this country??!! It seems to me everything is moving too slow for what is at stake and the saddest part is that not one person is fighting against what is happening and letting all this slide by. (ie the way Kerry conceded so fast) The Republicans are getting away with murder and the democrats are just letting it happen. The wolves are devouring the sheep. How can anyone call this country a democracy when we have so much crime in high places. Unless all this is corrected this country will be in big trouble. I hope Mr. Hackett will continue to fight to make sure everything was on the up and up in Ohio. A recount and investigation of all votes would be a plus. I have read that there were 2000 more votes for Bush than there were people. I hope Mr. Hackett will make sure that didn't happen to him. This game with the voting count is growing real old and if something isn't done to fix it 2006 will be the same as it was in 2000 and 2004. So it is time for some to get off their fat buns and start doing something before it is to late!!!!!!!!!!!!

Considering that Hackett ran in a district that goes repub 70-30 and its filled with wingnuts, I have to say this was quite a good showing for a honest "King of the Hill" Democrat. This was a good test run of the Western Stratagy, If you run a candidate like hackett and a campaign like hacketts in Western states like Navada, Montana, Colorado and so on... you'll nlow the repubs out of the water. As a side note all the rural poor and the regular folks voted for Hackett and the upper class wealthy suburbs voted for Schmidt.

Guys, we have to get over this every loss is a victory mentality. Losing SUCKS. Howard Dean sucks, Terry McCauliffe really sucked. This guy in Ohio seems great, and would win easily in most states. We need to get rid of all of our tree hugging leaders and replace them with guys like Paul Hackett. How much better a face would he be than Howard Dean. This is the future, lets get rid of the extreme left loonies in power, and bring back the real american democratic party.

Oh and if we will just run real people as candidates, not massechusets elitists, and malpractice attorneys. The repubs wouldnt be able to exert voter fraud. Because we would be winning every state, every election, by double digit margins. Lets get over this whining about fraud in Ohio and Florida,fraud wouldnt be an issue if Al Gore and John Kerry did'nt come across as rich elitists. Yeah Ol' Dubya is rich and very elitist but he knows how to come across normal and thats what the American people like. We sound like a bunch of Buffalo Bills fans from 1990-1998.

The DNC waited far too long to support Paul Hackett. Fifty state strategy my ass, more like "too little. too late." Howard, you need to mean what you say. If you're going to say that the DNC will fight in every race, then do it. The DNC only decided to get involved when the bloggers delivered some major grassroots support. You suck Howard!!!

We in Northern Kentucky (across the river from Ohio's 2nd congressional district) are extemely proud of Paul Hackett and the great showing he made in the special election on Tuesday. His performance is proof that with a terrific candidate, great campaign manager and team, and enough money, we can recapture seats, one at a time. We hope Paul will run again in 2006. Thank you Paul for carrying the torch for all of us.

Just heard the news. Wow, and the volunteers did it without any help from national figures. It was a grassroots groundswell. It bet that was what really impressed the Republicans who crossed over. They wanted to be part of changing the way things are now done politically.

If the Republicans political hacks considered Hackett to be an anti-war candidate, then they are really in trouble. I personally think he represented integrity. His candidacy dispells all the slime and demonic names they have been calling us for the last ten years. After all the Republicans' hard work, it appears Democrats are still perceived as just folks after all.

Hackett showed voters that he had the same hopes and dreams for the country as most people and was fed up with all the incompetence and corruption. And his supporters were the same good-hearted people. One by one we will win them back.

Congratulations to all who dared to stand up to the corruption and greed that the Republican machine now represents to even a 70% Republican district. I hope to see Hackett run again for a state office when he's ready.

I hope this has encouraged other fine men and women to run in other states. They now know tht there are those who will help them...and it can make a difference.

Why don't you Republicans take a break from your negative, smarty pants comments? I know it boggles you mind that a Democrat doesn't need a lot of money or a smear campaign to put in a good showing. Why don't you encourage the Presdident to talk about Social Security reform again ans watch us win the whole ball of wax in '06.

Get use to it. That's the way it's going to be from now on. You can't match us with on-the-ground voluneers...or small contributions that we know how to stretch into big returns. And your current lunatic leadership is turning people off with their Bible stumping, moralistic hogwash. They can't balance a budget or win a war that wasn't even necessary to begin with. Keep up the lying and bribes. It's so endearing to us all.

Why don't you Republicans take a break from your negative comments? I know it boggles you mind that a Democrat doesn't need a lot of money or a smear campaign to put in a good showing. Why don't you encourage the Presdident to talk about Social Security reform again ans watch us win the whole ball of wax in '06.

Get use to it. That's the way it's going to be from now on. You can't match us with on-the-ground voluneers...or small contributions that we know how to stretch into big returns. And your current lunatic leadership is turning people off with their Bible stumping, moralistic hogwash.

They can't balance a budget or win a war that wasn't even necessary to begin with. Keep up the lying, bribes, and corruption. It's so endearing to us all...particularly those rank and file Republicans who have now shown that they think they can do better elsewhere.

Hackett did great all things considered. Also for the record the DCCC had been sending some funds to the Hackett campaign 2 weeks prior to the election. It was kept under the radar so that Hackett could continue to campaign as a Political Outsider and without all the D.C. Connections Schmitt has, Although this is true Hackett had know connections the DCCC did still send him a nice chunk of change here and there to give him little help.

you guys are joking rihgt? this is a win for dems.
has anyone bothered to look at the turnout? let me give you some numbers so you can put this in context.
2005 turnout- 25% 119,814 total cast
2004 turnout- 75% 433,058 total cast

2005 schimdt(rep) - 59,132
hackett(dem) - 55,151
2004 portmann(rep)- 221,785
sanders(dem) - 87,156

clearly voters were not interested in this special election. i suggest that dems keep congratulating failure so reps can continue to win elections

Jen & TrueModerate: That doesn't MATTER whatsoever. It is that kind of thinking that will get you guys in trouble. The fact is Democrats on the Board of Elections are for the most part elected and serve at the pleasure of the secretary of state.

http://www.freepress.org

You must wake up quickly because all voters are being disenfranchised. Corrupt Democrats like Denny White are in on the fraud. You do NOT realize that they locked out observers from seeing the counting, right? And the website went down, so no one could see the counting there.....And after the counting was done, the GOP had another "5000 votes all of a sudden"

The writing is on the WALL all of you and its time to do something about it, and wage war against the establishment. If you do not, you will be permanently disenfranchised. They have the fortitude to elect WHOEVER the hell they want themselves, and you can't do anything about it.

nick

Regarding the 20th post,

With the vote counting we have in place now, someone could run a bonafied Nazi and he/she would win the race. That is how disenfranchised it is. Pat Robertson could be Senator of California. There could be a KKK member elected to be Vice President.

The vote counting is NO LONGER FAIR, and until the democrats especially fight like Hackett and wage war to make it fair its going to remain.

nick

While it was impressive to see Paul receive so many votes, the result of this race just goes to prove how gerrymandered this state and country is. Democrats need to focus on winning statewide offices and legislatures to ensure that districts are more fairly drawn. If we don't win at the state level, we can expect disappointments in house races in the future. All this grassroots organizing for national races is great, but let's not forget to remove the cancer at the state level.

TheSCmoderate wrote:

Guys, we have to get over this every loss is a victory mentality. Losing SUCKS. Howard Dean sucks, Terry McCauliffe really sucked. This guy in Ohio seems great, and would win easily in most states. We need to get rid of all of our tree hugging leaders and replace them with guys like Paul Hackett. How much better a face would he be than Howard Dean. This is the future, lets get rid of the extreme left loonies in power, and bring back the real american democratic party."

A voice of reason. Listen to him/her.

speaking of hurricanes...a miami herald article reported today that global warming is making hurricanes worse. let's remember that in '08 when our candidate goes down to florida...

Great show in Ohio!

Why are we celebrating a loss again?

This is our problem, we are treating this like a victory. This was, for all intents and purposes, a meaningless race. If you want to take a positive spin and say we did well or have a strong politician for a future race fine, but to claim a victory in an extremely low turn out of a race is ridiculous.

They stole another one and we are still talking....I liked this one so much, it deserves to be posted again:

You must wake up quickly because all voters are being disenfranchised. Corrupt Democrats like Denny White are in on the fraud. You do NOT realize that they locked out observers from seeing the counting, right? And the website went down, so no one could see the counting there.....And after the counting was done, the GOP had another "5000 votes all of a sudden"

The writing is on the WALL all of you and its time to do something about it, and wage war against the establishment. If you do not, you will be permanently disenfranchised. They have the fortitude to elect WHOEVER the hell they want themselves, and you can't do anything about it.

I think it's absolutely absurd to celebrate a loss this loudly. The guy didn't win- it doesn't matter if it's by 500 votes, 5000 votes, or 5,000,000,000 votes, he came up short. And for all those who like to blame vote-rigging for this and other losses, I say prove it. When you start blaming elves in the machines for your shortcomings I'd say it's time to throw in the towel.

What are the Democrats for? All I ever hear is what they're against. No you can't just be anti-Bush and expect to win, because not enough swing voters will vote for you.

As long as all you can come up with is why you don't like W, you'll be celebrating losses for a long time to come.

Every time we lose an election we can't claim it was stolen. It makes us look like sore losers

HERE'S SOME TOTALLY BITCHIN' QUOTES FOR YA...

Verbatim quotes from when Clinton was committing troops to Bosnia, courtesy of "StoriesInAmerica" at www.DailyKos.com. The first and last are awesome:

"You can support the troops but not the president."
---Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Well, I just think it's a bad idea. What's going to happen is they're going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years."
---Joe Scarborough (R-FL)

"Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?"
---Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99

"[The] President...is once again releasing American military might on a foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not informed our nation's armed forces about how long they will be away from home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy."
---Sen Rick Santorum (R-PA)

"American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign policy."
---Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

"If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain they have a clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy."
---Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush

"I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning...I didn't think we had done enough in the diplomatic area."
---Senator Trent Lott (R-MS)

"I cannot support a failed foreign policy...The President began this mission with very vague objectives and lots of unanswered questions...There are no clarified rules of engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President started this thing, and there still is no plan today."
-Rep Tom Delay (R-TX)

"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is."
-Governor George W Bush (R-TX)

Seems a lot of Republicans in the second district of Ohio don't like what their party stands for any more. It's your base that is erroding.

Now what are they so unhappy about that they would defect in such a blatant manner in a high profile race where they knew their crossing over would embarrass you all? Trouble in paradise?

'Prove' it?

Prove the votes are actually being counted, how about that?

Nobody can prove that because the votes keep getting counted in secret. Oops, republicans and democrats disenfranchised again.

The democrats and progressives know everything they stand for directly. They even blasted that message everywhere, and everyone knows what they stand for. No problem there.

Anti-war? No problem there, majority of country is against a false war.

No the fact is it all comes down to vote rigging. When no one can prove the results are legitimate due to secret vote counts, there is no reason to ACCEPT the results.

http://billmon.org/archives/002073.html

Yes, there was fraud. No, it shouldn't really surprise anyone. Until the day these kind of shinannigans stop happening, and the vote counting is not done in secret there will be no reason to assume there is no fraud in any election henceforth. That's the way it is, no other way around it either.

nick

Seems a lot of Republicans in the second district of Ohio don't like what their party stands for any more. It's your base that is erroding.
Posted by SandyH

We would be really foolish to believe this. Republicans were not exited about this race, we were. Voting was down 200,000 from last years race. The Democrat vote was around the same number, there is zero proof of deserting amongst them. We need to get our message out instead of pretending victory in this meaningless race we lost

excited-

Yeah, prove it. Not just to yourself, but to everyone else. Because if all you've got is circumstantial evidence and your posts on this web site, you've got nothing.

YO, DNC!!! YO, HOWARD!!!

You want Rush-the-Druggie Limbaugh off Armed Forces Radio, right?

How about using his smear on Tuesday -- he slimed ALL military civil affairs officers as "STAFF PUKE" on his radio program in an attempt to taint Paul Hackett, who served honorably in that role -- as a rallying cry for a "Write Your Senator and Congressman/woman" campaign to boot this vile-spewing drug addict off AFR?

THE FLATULENT KING OF OXY-CONTIN -- A GUY WHO REQUESTED AND RECEIVED A VIETNAM DEFERMENT LITERALLY BECAUSE OF A GLORIFIED ZIT ON HIS ASS -- HAS HANDED US AN OPPORTUNITY ON A SILVER PLATTER. LET'S RUN WITH IT!

The democrats will never win anything as long as the far left continues to be a voice for them, not to mention the idiots who want to make fun of the right. Limbaugh, is the least of your worries, people like me are the ones you should be affraid of. Until, the democrats can articulate a reasonable alternative, or a better idea, instead of calling people names and making up lies against a winning president, you and your party will continue to lose. As Reagan, said (paraphrase), "I did not leave the democratic party, they left me." as with me and my family and whoever else I can talk to.

Mega Dittos!

JW

"you've got nothing"

Well I beg to differ on that. Refer to the link I just posted above.

"Three counties in southwestern Ohio – Butler, Clermont and Warren –provided Bush with a combined plurality greater than his statewide
margin of victory. These results, when examined at the precinct level, are almost impossible to explain . . . In Clermont County there were
24 such precincts where Kerry received fewer votes than Gore. In Warren County there were six entire townships where voter registration
increased by 28% to 79%. In all three counties, Kerry received fewer votes than Ellen Connally, a little-known, underfunded African-American municipal judge from Cleveland, running for Chief
Justice. There must have been at least 13,500 voters who supported both Connally and Bush, or else the certified results are fraudulent.
In these three counties, and in Delaware County as well, Bush received more votes than Issue One, the constitutional amendment prohibiting
gay marriage. There must have been at least 10,500 supporters of gay marriage who voted for Bush, or else the certified results are
fraudulent." "
http://billmon.org/archives/002073.html

Just because its harder to show outright fraud in all republican districts, doesn't mean it didn't happen. I've heard from observers who saw 2 to 1 it going to Hackett in Clermont (surprise surprise) and ultimately the system crashes and 5000 extra votes come in to put Schmidt over the top.

Consider the statistical impossibility of A) No provisional ballots ever getting counted of which there was over 1000 and B) An over 4% swing to the incumbent in under 20 minutes, after a database crash.

Doesn't even matter if it was a republican or democrat district. Read this below:

http://gnn.tv/headlines/947/_Why_were_there_stickers_on_ballots_in_Clermont_County_Ohio

‘Why were there stickers on ballots in Clermont County, Ohio?’
Fri, 28 Jan 2005
By Larisa Alexandrovna
Republished from RAW STORY

Ohio recount volunteers allege electoral tampering, legal violations and possible fraud

Serious new election tampering allegations have emerged from an Ohio county, where witnesses allege that stickers were placed on presidential election ballots, RAW STORY has learned.

Several volunteer workers in the Ohio recount in Clermont County, Ohio have prepared affidavits alleging serious tampering, violations of state and federal law and possible fraud. They name the Republican chief of Clermont’s Board of Elections Daniel Bare and the head of the Clermont Democratic Party Priscilla O’Donnell as complicit in these acts.

These volunteers, observing the recount on behalf of the Greens, Libertarians and Democrats, assert that during the Dec. 14, 2004 hand recount they noticed stickers covering the Kerry/Edwards oval, whereas the Bush/Cheney oval seemed to be “colored in.”

I propose you prove everything was mere coincidence, without having actually observed any of the counting.

nick

I just discovered this...

After getting a Vietnam deferment for an ass-zit, during the 2004 election Limbaugh belittled John Kerry's shrapnel wounds as "tiny."

I have to say, all the vote-count-fraud people are somewhat tedious. Making your point once should be enough; repeating it twenty or thirty times adds nothing to your argument, but a lot to the perception of you as a raving lunatic. Please leave the lunacy to the other side, where it belongs.

Call the evidence that I respectfully cited above, the work of lunatics. I dare you.

Off to see a 'real' election.

nick

Its the work of lunatics....

Why can't we lose gracefully, get angry, regroup and beat these guys? Why do we have to make up stories of voter fraud? Why do we jump with joy every time we hear about a memo that is worse than Watergate? Is the purpose of our party to serve the people or point out how bad their party is? We all need to grow up

Although, the turn out in this election was great, we still need to win. It doesn't matter what has happned, but we still need to win. We can't lose and say well we played a great game;we did that in 2000 and 2004. We need to fight, we need to see what went wrong from the ballot to our strategy. We need to have our next electors running for office to campaign right now!!! Let's not wait to get some money, the money will come when you are out there fighting, but we need our candidates out there right now! This can not happen again. Well, only to republicans.

As I was listening to the radio earlier today, and I heard that there was a station in Ohio that shut down for 30 minutes, as the host was trying to get the people in Ohio to go and vote for Mr. Hackett. I also think it's wierd that the results came out 48% democrat and 52% republican. Does that sound wierd to you guys? It sould be, because that is the same number match up from the election of the presidents and the senators (Thune of Dekota and Martinez of Florida) they both had the same numbers.

It's time to pull out the stops and call a spade a spade, not a club. Voter fraud is no more abhorent to the right than claiming that Saddam had WMD in order to get us into that stupid war. These guys operate on a different set of values than the rest of us. They really beleive that "the end justifys the means." So therefore, they can lie, cheat, defraud, mislead, hide, conceal and anything else they can think of to further their cause. They believe it's perfectly OK to break all the rules if it serves to advance the plan. So, that's what they do. Tamper with vote tallies, why not? Cover it with crashed web sites, and locked out observers, sure. The only way to defeat these guys is to call them on every turn. Drag out what ever evidence there is of fraud and underhanded dealing and make them explain it in public. If enough evidence is brought to light, it will paint a clear picture of what they have been doing. Then we will begin to see fair elections and sound candidates will prevail. Step two, of course, is we must present the best candidates.
Paul Hackett is a start, there are others. You can't fix it with jerrymandering either. Just ask Arnold, he's found a way to nullify that game. And in California, it's presently in favor of Dems by a wide margin. So in the CA 80th district they put up a right wing firebreather called Bonnie Garcia against a hapless Dem named Joey Acuna and she blew him away. This was supposed to be a "safe" democratic seat. We must put up the best candidates if we are to win.

It's time to pull out the stops and call a spade a spade, not a club. Voter fraud is no more abhorent to the right than claiming that Saddam had WMD in order to get us into that stupid war. These guys operate on a different set of values than the rest of us. They really beleive that "the end justifys the means." So therefore, they can lie, cheat, defraud, mislead, hide, conceal and anything else they can think of to further their cause. They believe it's perfectly OK to break all the rules if it serves to advance the plan. So, that's what they do. Tamper with vote tallies, why not? Cover it with crashed web sites, and locked out observers, sure. The only way to defeat these guys is to call them on every turn. Drag out what ever evidence there is of fraud and underhanded dealing and make them explain it in public. If enough evidence is brought to light, it will paint a clear picture of what they have been doing. Then we will begin to see fair elections and sound candidates will prevail. Step two, of course, is we must present the best candidates.
Paul Hackett is a start, there are others. You can't fix it with jerrymandering either. Just ask Arnold, he's found a way to nullify that game. And in California, it's presently in favor of Dems by a wide margin. So in the CA 80th district they put up a right wing firebreather called Bonnie Garcia against a hapless Dem named Joey Acuna and she blew him away. This was supposed to be a "safe" democratic seat. We must put up the best candidates if we are to win.

Everyone better remember to not call this thing voter fraud, because the voters should never be blamed for committing the fraud.

Voters aren't going out in record numbers and double voting, gerrymandering district vote counts so that the election swings to Bush or any other such thing.

No, it is vote fraud plain and simple. Election vote fraud. And here is a report below of proof that no one can deny.

http://www.answers.com/topic/2004-u-s-presidential-election-controversy-voting-machines

You all need to read it, everyone who denies fraud is happening often needs to read it and wake up to reality.

Then we can correct this, and run full on fighting campaigns all through the USA. With the fraud exposed, 52-49% "wins" or "losses" will no longer be a reality.

Remember, the votes are counted in secret. That's what started this whole thing.

nick

Bravo, nick_t! Way to stay on message!
Don't ever forget: WE SHOULD HAVE THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT NOW!!!

This is serious GOP, black market, mafia bullshit people. We can talk all we want about the perfect message, the perfect candidate, the perfect strategy, and raising $, but if the election is rigged, then what damn good does it do?! Huh!?
Sorry to cuss, but this is seriously f%@#ed up right here.
Election reform has to be issue #1 from now on until we start winning again.
Thanks again nick_t, for making sure noone forgets what's really going on here.

Before anyone makes those tin hat accusations that those who question the vote are lunatics, we should investigate. Web site crashes and inflatd numbers mean something. This is not a clear electoral process when doors are closed and codes kept secret. It should be, if we wish to maintain that we are a democratic country. If we do not have that, then that claim is a fantasy.

PS - If it is a clean process, why can't it be transparent? A copyright protects the info.

There is no question that the process should be entirely transparent from start to finish, and there is no question that it is currently not. A lack of transparency, however, is not itself proof of malfeasance.

Obviously there are at least a few people who are passionate about this subject. To those I say that you will never get anywhere ranting about it in an echo chamber, and if change is what you seek you should go out there and try to change it. I doubt your local lawmakers read the comments on this webpage.

Groenhagen predicted the DNC would ban him and they did. Amazing. The only guy telling the truth and eschewing malicious comments on this site had his comments deleted by a party that complained last year that Democrats were not allowed to attend Bush rallies. Talk about hypocrisy.

From http://billmon.org/archives/002073.html:

"Three counties in southwestern Ohio – Butler, Clermont and Warren – provided Bush with a combined plurality greater than his statewide margin of victory."

So what? Look at Michigan, the flipside of this sort of phenomenon. If it wasn't for Detroit, Michigan would have a Republican governor and two Republican senators, yet the opposite is true.

"In all three counties, Kerry received fewer votes than Ellen Connally, a little-known, underfunded African-American municipal judge from Cleveland, running for Chief Justice. There must have been at least 13,500 voters who supported both Connally and Bush, or else the certified results are fraudulent."

Bunk. In Clermont, Connally received 4183 more votes than Kerry. In Warren, she got 2427 more, and in Butler she received 5325 more. That total, for starters, is 11,935 votes (11,935 voted for Connally but couldn't have voted for Kerry). But just because someone voted for Connally but didn't vote for Kerry doesn't mean they voted for Bush! In Butler County, for example, there were 168,976 ballots cast. Among these were a total of 166,796 votes for President and 129,966 votes for Chief Justice. Since there were 2,180 ballots cast from which a vote for President was not recorded, the maximum number of ballots that we can be absolutely positive contained a recorded vote for both Chief Justice and President is 127,786. But which 127,786? Do you just assume that all the votes for Bush are in there and then make up the difference with Kerry votes? What about Moyer (Connally's opponent) and Connally? Do you use percentages? If you make the assumption that among those 127,786 votes the vote distribution is exactly the same, then you have 84,173 votes for Bush, 43,077 votes for Kerry, and 536 votes for someone else, while scoring 60,532 votes for Connally and 67,254 for Moyer. If you make the additional ludicrous assumption that everyone who voted for Moyer voted for Bush, you're left with a difference (a Bush/Connally overlap) of 16,919! But so what? That means you have to assume that every person among those 43,077 voters for Kerry all voted for Connally, as well as all 536 people who voted for some other presidential candidate. What if you just use raw numbers? Bush got a total of 41,459 more votes than Moyer. If you take out the 39,010 ballots that had no recorded vote for Chief Justice (all of which potentially could have been Bush voters), you're left with 2,449. Then subtract the 2,180 who didn't vote for President at all (all of which could have been ballots cast for Connally) and the 696 cast for other presidential aspirants (likewise), and you're left with negative 427 votes. And what does that tell you? Absolutely nothing! The only thing you can tell for sure is that more people voted for president than for Chief Justice.

Maybe Connally is from Clermont County! Maybe she spoke out against gay marriage or on some other hot button topic! Maybe people voted for her because her name comes before Moyer's in the alphabet! It's absolutely bunk to wonder in any case because it's totally impossible to figure out who voted for what different offices in what combinations anyway!

"In these three counties, and in Delaware County as well, Bush received more votes than Issue One, the constitutional amendment prohibiting gay marriage. There must have been at least 10,500 supporters of gay marriage who voted for Bush, or else the certified results are fraudulent."

What? In Butler County Bush got 87 more votes than "Yes", but once again, so what? There were 5,555 more ballots cast for President than for Issue One in that county, and Kerry got 4,772 more votes than "No". All that tells us is that more people voted for president than for Issue One. In Warren County, Bush got 4,604 more votes than "Yes". But 1,240 people cast ballots without voting for president, and 4,121 people cast ballots without voting for Issue One, so that leaves us with an overlap of nagative 757 votes. Once again, what does that tell us? Absolutely nothing! All we know for sure is that more people voted for president than for Issue One.

The sort of logic presented in this article is the work of lunatics.

INTERESTING INFO RE: SOCIAL SECURITY

WHY WAIT UNTIL 2008? THERE IS AN ELECTION IN 2006. I HEREWITH FIRMLY STATE THAT I WILL NOT VOTE FOR ANY POLITICIAN, REGARDLESS OF THE OTHER ISSUES, IF HE DOES NOT SPONSOR AND SUPPORT THIS LEGISLATION. THAT INCLUDES EVERYONE STANDING FOR ELECTION IN 2006.

LET US SHOW OUR LEADERS IN WASHINGTON "PEOPLE POWER"AND THE POWER OF THE INTERNET. LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE WITH ME ON THIS BY REPLYING AND FORWARDING TO EVERYONE IN YOUR ADDRESS BOOK.
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT!
KEEP IT GOING!!!!
2008 Election Issue!!
GET A BILL STARTED TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOC. SEC.
This must be an issue in "2008" Please! Keep it going.

SOCIAL SECURITY:
(This is worth reading. It is short and to the point.)
Perhaps we are asking the wrong questions during election years.
Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.
You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society.They felt they should have aspecial plan for themselves. So, many years ago they voted in theirown benefit plan.
In more recent years, no congressperson has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.
For all practical purposes their plan works like this:
When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die.
Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments..
For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7,800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275,000.00 during the last years of their lives.
T his is calculated on an average life span for each of those two Dignitaries.
Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives.
Their cost for this excellent plan is $0.00. NADA....ZILCH....
This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds;
"OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK"! From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into,-every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer)-we can expect to get an average of $1,000 per monthafter retirement. Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator! Bill Bradley's benefits!
Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.
That change would be to:
Jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us
then sit back.....
and see how fast they would fix it.
If enough people receive this, maybe a seed of awareness will be planted and maybe good changes will evolve.
How many people CAN you send this to?
Better yet..... How many people WILL you send this to ?

INTERESTING INFO RE: SOCIAL SECURITY

First, the Democrats have to start winning elections. This isn't hand grenades, close doesn't count. Whether it was by one vote or thousands, Schmidt won and is going to Congress, Hackett lost.

Second, Kerry won Philadelpia County in Pennsylvania by an 80-20 percentage. About 400K to 100K. Kerry won PA and its 23 electoral votes by about 130,000 votes. If he only wins 2/3 of the votes in that County (330K to 170K), Bush wins Pennsylvania.

I point this out both because of the above questioning about how just a few counties in Ohio made the difference, plus I have seen just as many insinuations of voter fraud in Philadelphia County in favor of Kerry as I saw in favor of Bush in Ohio. Including video footage of Democrats delivering and collecting absentee ballots in prison, which is against state law.