In my opinion, Democrats need to be careful not to tout themselves as opponents of obvious incompetents--smacks of Kerry proposing that HE would do what should be done better than George the Lesser. It's not a winning argument and, in some cases, leads to "guilt by association" thinking--not a nice strategy either, especially if the "guilty" end up being "not guilty."

Anyway, for an example of what I find an unfortunate strategy, let me present you with the DCCC's description of up and coming candidates that they want democrats to support:

CT-04: Meet Diane Farrell, a former teacher, a community leader, taking on faux-moderate Republican Chris Shays in a state that is hungry for change and where no Republican is safe.

FL-22: Meet Ron Klein, a Democratic star of Florida politics he outraised entrenched Republican and arch-Social Security privatizer Clay Shaw in the second quarter this year.

TX-22: Meet Nick Lampson, the esteemed Democratic Congressman who was redistricted out of his seat by Tom DeLay. Now it?s time for DeLay to pay the piper, with Lampson prepared to give him the race of his life.

IN-08: Meet Brad Ellsworth, a sheriff who has received some of Indiana?s highest law enforcement honors. He enters the race strong against Republican extremist John Hostettler, currently under fire for being one of just 11 Members of Congress to vote against the Hurricane relief package.

IN-09: Meet Baron Hill, one of Indiana?s great Democratic figures. In what will no doubt be one of the toughest races in the country, he is taking on Republican Mike Sodrel, a DeLay lackey to end all DeLay lackeys, voting with him a stunning 98% of the time.

NC-08: Meet Tim Dunn, a veteran of the Iraq War and a lawyer who helped compile the case against Saddam Hussein. His courage stands in stark contrast with Republican Robin Hayes, who buckled to Tom DeLay as the crucial votes in passing NAFTA and CAFTA ? after promising his constituents he would vote against it.

CA-11: Meet Steve Filson, a former Aircraft Carrier Jet pilot who served in the Navy for 20 years. He will be taking on Republican Richard Pombo, one of the most ethically-troubled Members of Congress and a leader of anti-environmental causes great and small.

PA-06: Meet Lois Murphy, a champion of women?s rights and adjunct professor at Temple University. Having run an outstanding campaign in 2004, she is back for the win in 2006 against Republican Jim Gerlach and his national Republican supporters like Tom DeLay and Karl Rove.

CT-02: Meet Joe Courtney - a former public defender and State Rep. who has already begun racking up the endorsements in another intense Connecticut race. He takes on Rob Simmons, who has survived in no small part thanks to the support of national Republicans like Tom DeLay and Karl Rove, and who has put those national Republicans ahead of his constituents time and time again.

CO-04: Meet Angie Paccione, a former teacher, professor, and played on the National Basketball team - currently a powerhouse in the growing Colorado Democratic movement. She?ll be taking on Marilyn Musgrave, one of James Dobson and Tom DeLay?s favorites, to give Colorado?s 4th the gift of change and reasonable representation again.

Open Seats

MN-06: Meet Elwyn Tinklenberg, a public servant looking to reclaim this open seat for the Democrats after years of misguided Republican representation. Tinklenberg has bolted out of the gate, outraising all of his Republican opponents.

NV-02: Meet Jill Derby, a long time community activist who serves on the University of Nevada Board of Regents, her family has been a pillar of her community for generations.

OH-06: Meet Charlie Wilson, an experienced State Representative, businessman, and community leader, he will be an integral part of the new Democratic wave in Ohio.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Comments like this do not strike me as helpful---

no Republican is safe

faux-moderate

outraised entrenched Republican

time for DeLay to pay the piper

Lampson prepared to give him the race of his life ("giving someone a race" is supposed to be a positive?)

John Hostettler, currently under fire (is that a good thing? what if the relief budget was poorly thought out?)

DeLay lackey to end all DeLay lackeys (is a lackey sort of like a jockey--race metaphors are not likely to impress conservatives)

lawyer who helped compile the case against Saddam Hussein (which has gone where?)

ethically-troubled (he worries about ethics?)

champion of women's rights (not impressive in a female candidate)

racking up the endorsements

survived in no small part thanks to the support of national Republicans like Tom DeLay (survival is a good thing after Katrina)

Marilyn Musgrave, one of James Dobson and Tom DeLay's favorites (surely not in the Monica sense!!!!)

bolted out of the gate

family has been a pillar

integral part of the new Democratic wave (waves are no more desirable than the "perfect storm")

Why should I ever again work for the Democratic Party? Yes, I said, "Work", since I campaigned for Dean, and then helped turn New Hampshire blue for that PodMan Kerrey, who never found a caveat he couldn't embrace.
Tell me why I should support a party that has 17 Democrats who voted FOR the bankruptcy bill AND a bunch more voting for this liar, this Stepford judge, Roberts.
I'm turning 'green' to vote my heart, unless the corruption in our OWN party is cleaned up. I refuse to believe that the dim Dems of the Senate and House are THAT stupid.

I am outraged by the way alot of things here in the united states is being handled, I saw a sticker one time that read I LOVE MY COUNTRY, BUT I FEAR MY GOVERNMENT. How true. Who can you trust. After Katrina how can we trust our government or our leaders. It is really hard to find trust anywhere in this country anymore. We really have no one to trust but our faith , Our faith to survive in this country , Yes we do have our so called christians. But christians are suppose to be god loving, caring people, not someone who judges or thinks they stand out among everyone else. We have a greedy, money hungry government. who cares about no one but themselves, and those like them. One more thing, what punishment did Rove did. NOTHING. Our county is heading down the wrong path, the path of destruction. Man made destruction, all for the love of money, and power, and they use the bible as controling and putting fear into people. LISTEN TO YOUR HEART, IT DOESN'T LEAD YOU WRONG. HUMANS LEADS YOU WRONG. Another thing when did we start paying back churches for there contributions. God gave in love, and wanted nothing back in return. There once again shows me how money controls even our churches, HOW SAD. We need to get the democrats off there butts and start fighting back for our rights and putting the republicans back in there place, not putting them in control of everything, this is what the whole problem with this country is now, is that the Republicans don't know what it is to live from pay check to pay check, or work for low wages, or putting it plainly they don't know what it is to STRUGGLE. THE RICH GETS RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER, AND THE MIDDLE CLASS IS FADING OUT. And we are suppose to be called the UNITED STATES. WHAT A JOKE.

demobuster,

I highly doubt you could "bust" your way out of a wet paper bag if you were in it. The republican party sensores there blog and boots out any Democrat who tries to post. The republican party was caught trying to have the PBS lean to a one-sided right wing view. The republicans had protestors arrested outside the Whithouse violating their 1st amendment rights. That sounds to me more like what went on in Russia and China than anything the Democrats have EVER done. I believe we call this COMMUNISM? Not the other way around!

All I can say about Tom Delays dismay;

Remember Dan Rostenkowski?

Paybacks a bitch aint it?

alice_copeland_brown,

To go back to the green party is nothing more than giving the republicans another vote. Is this what you want? It was a proven fact that the GOP was giving Nader campaign money just to take votes away from John Kerry. If you go back to the green party, you might as well call yourself a republican.

Not to in any way imply that I am in agreement with much of our Democratic strategy, I do think it bears discussion that there is a serious disconnect between the DLC, DNC and the rank and file.

For instance, the Roberts nomination is expected to pass by 77 affirmative votes. Why is ANY Democrat supporting this nomination? How many examples of ideologues and incompetents does the senate need from the Bush administration before looking out for Americans?

H.D. has come out against Roberts, most of the rank and file are against Roberts...yet our leadership is going to vote FOR Roberts.

I think when one begins to define WHO the enemy is within our party...they might want to refrain from shotgun assertions. For the most part, the DNC IS representing my view. That is where my financial support (at a local level)will go to at this point because anything provided to the DLC will be wasted in terms of advancing a coherent Democratic message.

Linda W.
OKC

xxx

I really think we democrats need to wake up and smell the coffee. We have not had the majority of America vote for our candidate since 1976. I know I will get blasted by you guys, but its the truth.
Perot did us a big favor for at least 8 years or we would have been blanked out for almost 3 decades. We have GOT to have a message that the people want and NOT just be negative, don't you think?

Splash!

Another Republican lemming marches over the cliff and into the sea of unpopularity.

Hey Republicans! Keep mindlessly marching in lockstep fashion. Dubya and DeLay have pointed the way. Do not question them. Just follow mindlessly.

Splash!

Splash!

Ker-splash! That was a big one. Must have been Sensenbrenner.

Splish! And that sounded like Rice. Awwww, her new shoes got all wet!

Splash! Hey Lieberman, that's what you get for being a DINO!

Splash!

Judge John G. Roberts is an authoritarian. He is convinced that the rights of the citizens flow from their participation and subjugation to the state. In that sense he's a state's rights person, which is different from a states' rights person. The latter favors the allocation of most responsibilities for a well-ordered society to the individual states and their individual quirks. A state's rights person, on the other hand, holds that the state is the original of ALL individual rights, including the right to life. Which is why, on the one hand, the regulation of procreation cannot be left to those who procreate. To do so would be to give up the state's right to decide who lives and who dies and when--a principle that's being challenged as we speak by those who would invalidate the designation of suicide as a crime; as well as by those who would strip the state of the power to administer death as an ultimate penalty.
Whatever rationalizations the proponents of forced procreation come up with, the bottom line is that they are convinced that the community as a whole, not individuals, gets to decide who lives and who dies. The difficulty they confront is that procreation is a secretive process which, until very recently, few people understood--not even those in whose bodies it occurs--very likely for the simple reason that the mamalian reproductive process, as well as the demands of the product, are very stressful and something to be avoided by those who can. In other words, the period of gestation in humans is long in part because humans aren't very good parents and (historically) only the most demanding infants survived.
Not to mention that most humans have a tendency to be antagonistic towards other people's children whom they perceive as competitors for the resources they have claimed for themselves.

THE CRIMES OF TOM DELAY

These are just the crimes for a three year period ending Nov 2004, and just the crimes we know about. Most likely, there are many more hidden in the woodwork. Isn't that just like a cockroach?

http://baltimore.indymedia.org/newswire/display/5640/index.php

I would be so much more impressed by the "hard-hitting" journalism that the "New York Times" (and also phony investigative reporter Lisa Myers) recently pretended to display on the topic of Tom Delay if they had gotten onto Delay's case earlier... Like three years earlier! Tom Delay has been running the boiler room fund-raising scam Myers et al. "exposed," first on small business owners, then doctors, now children's charities, for years. REAL journalists have been trying to draw the public's attention to Delay's crimes since 2000. Their efforts have showed up as one-shot articles stuffed onto page 26 or so of the "NY Times" or "Washington Post," with no follow up, no network coverage. In short, the tracks are quickly swept up.

But if you want to get a taste of the sort of people the corporate media routinely protects, check out this ongoing history of Tom Delay's criminal activity. After reading it, you'll ask yourself: "WHY IS THIS MAN STILL IN OFFICE?" Followed by: "WHY IS THIS MAN NOT IN PRISON?"

Let's go back to November, 2000 and work our way forward through the DeLay cesspool (several of the synopses of articles and links were retrieved in chronological sequence from the archives at Democrats.com, where the editors have been tracking this career criminal's "progress" for years.

Nov 2000:
Delay Tries to Intimidate Supreme Court Judges to Fix Election Outcome

http://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/04/opinion/04RUSS.html?ex=1069390800&en=6b806e48e32ae34d&ei=5070

Nov 28 2000:
Tom Delay Finances Trip of 'Rioters' to Florida to Disrupt the Presidential Election Recount

Dec. 2000:
Washington Post Scrubs Photo of Florida Rioters that Shows Delays Staff

Here's the mirrorered version:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=politics/fedpage/columns/intheloop&contentId=A30170-2000Dec5¬Found=true

Feb 2001 (report on campaign 2000):
Delay's Daughter Launders $60,000 in Donations in 2000 for Daddy

http://www.amarillonet.com/stories/020701/opi_lawhnabs.shtml

January 2001:
Delay uses Corporate Slush Fund to Finance Ads Attacking Democrats Who Oppose Ashcroft's Nomination

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A9875-2001Jan17¬Found=true

April 12, 2001:
Delay Sells Meetings with Bush to Top GOP Donors

April 27 2001:
Delay Scam Targets Small Business Owners

May, 2001:
Tom Delay Brags That His Strategy Is To Kick People When they Are Down

June 2001:
Tom Delay Bilks Doctors in Boiler Room Scam

Phony 'Watchdog' Group Judicial Watch Looks Other Way as Delay Defrauds Public

July 2001:
Tom Delay, Former Exterminator, Wants to Allow Extensive and Undisclosed Use of Pesticides in Elementary Schools

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A16197-2001Jul18¬Found=true

July 2001:
Tom Delay Helps Hastert in Push to Block Patient's Bill of Rights

May, 2002:
: Media, Judicial Watch, and Congress Continue to Look other Way as Doctors are Preyed on By Delay Boiler Room Scam

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/nrcc_020502.html

January 2002:
Tom Delay Used Enron Money to Fund Political Racketeering

Feb. 2002:
Tom Delay Fights to Block Campaign Finance Reform

Feb. 2002:
Tom Delay Refuses to Return Money to Enron Employees

April 2002:
Delay Claims Only Christians Know what's best for Nation

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A18077-2002Apr19¬Found=true

http://www.tompaine.com/feature.cfm/ID/5518

May 16, 02:
Tom Delay Financial 'Godfather' Implicated in Mob Murder

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13134

Feb 2003:
Tom Delay Smears Firefights as "Threat to National Security"!!

May 2003:
Tom Delay Uses Homeland Security and State Police Resources to Terrorize Political Opponents

Reports Common Dreams: "State troopers have followed the Democrats wives, parents and children.

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0514-07.htm

June 2003:
Delay and 15 other GOP Congresscreeps Accused of Taking Bribes from Energy Corporation seeking favors

June, 2003:
Delay Blocks Efforts to Restore Tax Cuts to Poor Families left Out of Bush Plan

August 15, 2003:
Record Shows that Democratic Efforts to Upgrade Electrical Grid to Prevent Blackouts was Ridiculed and Blocked by DELAY

http://www.thedailyenron.com/documents/20030815132640-93614.asp

October, 2003:
Memo Is Smoking Gun Proof of Tom Delay's Collusion with Enron

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/10/14/enron/index_np.html

Oct. 13 2003:
Tom Delay Thumbs His Nose at the Will of 80% of Americans And Blocks Efforts to Overturn Hated FCC Corporate Giveaway

Oct. 2003:
Bush Cowers as Delay Guts the Americorps Program

http://www.time.com/time/columnist/klein/article/0,9565,476274,00.html

Nov. 22 03:
Thug Delay Steals Medicare From the Elderly by Threatening fellow Congressfolk

The final hall of shame vote:http://clerk.house.gov/cgi-bin/vote.exe?year=2003&rollnumber=669 "Texas Democrats have subpoenaed House Majority Leader Tom DeLay as a witness in a lawsuit to overturn a congressional district map DeLay helped push through the Texas Legislature.

Nov. 2 03:
ow Tom Delay Engineered a Junta-style Takeover of the Texas Government

Nov. 2003:
Tom Delay Aggressively Promotes and Defends War Profiteering in Iraq

Sorry, those are DeLay's crimes just for the 3 year period ending Nov 2003, not 2004.

Well I guess I would feel a lot better about DeLay's rightful indictment IF the Democrats had something to say that would get us out of this morass of gainsay argumentation. God, people, aren't we all just sick to death of "nyah-nyah-nyah"? Is there no one with a vision of how the American experiment can revitalize us?

Will_Matney -

I suggest you reconsider the significance of statements like the ones being made by people like alice and dieharddemocrat, above. Consider, too, this comment made today by Vin Weber, a Republican congressman from Minnesota:

"I think that the Democrats are unable to exploit issues like energy, taxes and Iraq because they have nothing to say," said Weber, who remains an important GOP strategist. "The problem with the issue of corruption is the opposition party doesn't have to have anything to say. All you've got to be is the other party, so it worries me."

The second part of his statement is reassuring, certainly, but the first part should scare the hell out of Democrats.

This is precisely the time that Democrats ought to be crafting a positive agenda that provides a clear alternative to the Republican agenda of bleed and borrow, of rich over poor, of corporations over individuals and of the powerful over the weak. But that is not happening. On this website, for instance, the abundance of resource and attention is given to bashing Republicans. Do they deserve that? Of course. Should we stop doing that? Of course not. However...and this is the big however...opposing Republicans doesn't end with cheerleading as Delay and Frist and Rove are exposed as criminals. It extends into the House and the Senate where Democrats ought to be voting against Republicanism even if they think it may cost them a few votes at home. And it also extends to the broader realm of putting forth a set of proposals that contrast STARKLY with Republicanism. That's not happening, and that's really, really dumb.

If we finally shake up enought Bush voters to look for an alternative, what do they find in the Democratic Party? They find the DLC. Lieberman, Clinton, Biden, Kerry...and what are THEY calling for? I quote:

"They challenge Democrats to make winning the war against jihadist extremism the party's first priority."

That's FIRST Priority. Folks...listen to me here. You can't stand in front of the police station and convince citizens that you'll do a better job of protecting them than the cops that already have the job, no matter how incompetent they may be. You can't do it. It's a non starter. A loser of a position. In fact, the DLC positions up and down the board are losers. Take a look at our recent Win/Loss record.

DLC Democrats have established a pattern of conciliation and capitulation which positively DELIGHTS Republicans. Their voting records are what cause people like Alice to take a fling with Dean, who was willing to OPPOSE Republicans, and then turn back to the green Party. You can't be the "opposition party who has nothing to say" and win. Nor should you win, for that matter.

Howard - please ditch the agreement you made when you took the job and run again, will you please? Your party's leaders are dysfunctional and in deep, deep denial. However there are millions of voters who will come to you again.

BaronScarpia,

I remember when the GOP sent a linch mob pretty much after Dan Rostenkowski, and several other Democrats who actually was doing a huge amount of good for the citizens they represented. I remember the smug grins of Phil Graham, Newt Gingrich, Trent Lott, Rush Limbaugh, and several other top republicans after they announced they were investagating Dan. I remember then how they rejoiced with a huge "I told you so". I said then I'd get to say these very same words back, and I damn proud I did. So it sounds that I'm the only Democrat who wanted to finally see the tables leveled?

Ralph Nader ran knowing at the start he could never win an election. He even said so himself. He did it only to show off his beliefs. He also tried to deny the republicans were sending in thousands of dollars to his campaign fund. Those were the same republicans who voted for Bush Sr., and Jr. They never voted for Nader at all. That was one big stunt to take away votes from the Democrats as the republican seen it, and know laugh their ass off about. IF, I felt that bad about the way the Democrat party was, I would NEVER join Nader nor NEVER vote for him. I wouldn't vote at all as a matter of fact. Why would I do this knowing that the only party that has helped me one bit was the Democrats? Why would I want to take that vote away? Why would I EVER want to give that vote to another party, especially the republicans? The thing is, if every Nader vote had went to the Democrats, we would have won even with voter fraud. Nader knows this and so does the GOP. It's about time that these other voters start to think about the results of their fence jumping. They want to compalin about the Democrats not ever being able to win, well they would if folks would quit straddling the fence! My neighboring state has way more registered Democrats than they do republicans. Why did WV carry Bush? Do you know that if WV had carried Gore or Kerry, a Democrat would have been in office both terms?

Believe me, I think about everything I say and the results thereof. I'm not one of those posters who comes on here rattling off unintelligable rants with no evidence to back it up. Matter of fact, I lived through and watched every president since LBJ. I've studied a good part of American political history going back to Lincoln. I've not seen one republican fight for the poor, needy, handicapped, sick, or minority. The only times they tried to make it look like they did, it was politically motivated or was forced upon them by the workers in the US. Just like Bush now with the drug benefits. First they done this to butter folks up to accept putting SS dollars into the stock market. Next, they got the idea from the Democrats where they opposed any legislation for it by a Democrat president. You mark my words, they'll try to take full credit for it.

Folks let me tell you, if you don't educate the public with truth, no matter how bad it tastes, they'll continue to do what they do. I'm not one ounce sorry for educating Alice as it looked like I was the only one going to. Neither am I one ounce sorry for my I told you so above. And I'm definately not sorry for pulling demobusters collar up around his ears. If folks dont get some backbone to them and quit being a passifist about everything, we won't EVER win like we should have been doing for the last 25 years. We want to complain about some members of the Democrat party being to mean when the GOP has a pitbull like Carl Rove.

Will -

I agree, virtually 100%, with every thing you say (except perhaps that Teddy Roosevelt was a Republican and I wold vote for him, and all he did to advance "liberal" causes, in a heartbeat). Trash Republican Wealth Crusaders? Of course. Lock up the ones who have violated law? Naturally.

Will that register ten million new voters who will put Democrats in office?

Nope.

Democrats need a plan, a strategy, a clear statement that defines what the base believes in. The Democratic Leadership should be focusing on:
- ENERGY POLICY: An long term energy policy that reduces and over a period of time eliminates the dependence on foriegn oil and oil in general. There needs to be a here and now action on this front; a "carrot and a stick" for Detroit and the large users of oil. Renewable energy sources, alternative energies.
- DEBT REDUCTION: A clear and comprehensive plan to reduce and eliminate national debt. With a combination of spending reductions and fair taxation. The alternative is a possibility of a blackmail by Communist China, which holds substantial amount of our national debt. This administration has bloated the size of government beyond belief and has indulged in pork and corporate welfare. There is a lot of fat that can be cut without impacting the safety net. Defense spending needs to get far more effecient.
- FORIEGN POLICY. The world needs to start viewing the United States as a friend and not as a bully. Get back to international coalitions. With the international coalition, build an early exit strategy from Iraq, create an international Marshall Plan for Afghanistan and turn that country into a model and modern state. Build bridges with EU. The coalition and cooperation between Russia, China and India, should raise a red flag for us; the worry is not so much military power as much as economic power.
- NATIONAL SECURITY. There needs to be a clear and comprehensive plan for National Security both from man made and natural threats. The plan should ensure individual rights are not eroded.
- ENVIRONMENT: There is a lot of evidence to show global warming maybe causing the greater number of hurricanes. Already there is evidence of greater melting of the ice caps in the poles. We need to save the planet for the future generations
- EDUCATION. The United States is fast losing out in primary education to the countries of Asia. The Public School system has created generations of very qualified professionals that has made this country the envy of the world in terms of technological progress and innovation. We need a plan to stop the fast deterioration of the public school system.

Democrats cannot be scared to be labeled as Liberals and everything else the right wing propaganda machinery will throw at us. Democrats have to stand up for what is right for the country and take the offensive. Democrats need to define ourselves and not let the right wing propaganda machinery define us. Democratic leadership cannot be defining policy looking at the opinion polls. That is not leadership. We do not need followers at the top, we need leaders, leaders who can define and lead opinions, not ones that merely follow opinions.

As part of the offensive, let us not be scared to stomp our feet and raise hell on the incompetency of the current administration and the corruption of the republican led administration and congress. This is not the time to be coy. We need ruble raisers. Lap dogs are for another day. Now is the time for pit bulls. Now is the time for clear articulation of what Democrats stand for and consistently and unwaveringly repeating the message; without concern for what Bill O'Reilly, the Wall Street Journal and the other right wing propagandists say. Democrats need to blunt the Karl Rove/ Karen Hughes propaganda machinery. Compare them to the Soviet propaganda machinery. Compare Fox News and the Wall Street Journal to Pravda. Now is the time for action! Now is the time for leadership! If the old guard cannot do it, we need some fresh blood in the leadership! If the current leadership is too scared to take on the fight to the Republican camp, the grass-roots should do it! If the next Supreme Court nominee is anything other than a moderate who has a track record of respect of the individual rights and the separation of church and state, that may be the battle to focus on!

BaronScarpia,

Under Roosevelt, he did break up the trusts and the railroad barens who were knuckiling under this country. However, I always thought it was over public and political pressure that caused this because everyone saying McKinley was being led around by the trusts. They said he was "a little boy led around by "Nursie" Hanna". The corruption of the trusts under another republican was getting out of hand. Also, again we had another war started by another republican under McKinley. McKinely also had the UMWA after him for working hours. Plus Tarifs went up a very good bit because of McKinely. From all this, and what I have read, Roosevelt did what he did to bring the republicans back out of the mud it was in. Again, this is where it gets politically motivated and where the working people were forcing things to be done by strikes. Now Roosevelt did do a lot for our park service since he was a fellow hunter and a naturalist. The parks I would agree he done on his own, but the trust busting was over licking wounds from his own party. That's not just my thoughts on it but history. This is where they'll make folks think they're doing it for the people but in fact are doing it over political reasons.

Sam -

Many, many good points. To those I would add, and probably assign a somewhat higher priority, proposals which would have more immediate impact on the plight of American families who earn less than $50,000 annually. Why? Because the vast majority of Americans are in that income base, and they need the most help. They need to have their jobs protected against rapacious, greedy CEO's who look at their employees as a retardant on their big fat bonuses. They need to have preschool education made available to their children so that those kids will learn faster, better and more when they get to later years of their education, and also so that they can be freed up a little earlier to work that extra job that they need to make ends meet. They need help in getting healthcare services, so that they don't need to make the choice between preventative medicine for their kids or food on the table. They need a much, much higher minimum wage. The list goes on and on.

Liberal? Yup. I Llllllove the word Lllllliberal. The alternative - Republican style conservative trickle down capitalism stinks. Capitalism, unchecked by government controls, is the most cruel economic model ever conceived. Need proof, Bushbabies? Check out life in America before the trust busters, before the income tax, before child labor laws, before laws protecting the rights of workers to organize, before a strong central banking system was created, before the SEC was created - all LIBERAL initiatives. Life in that America was fine if you were born into wealth, or were one of the handfull who managed to make their own fortunes. For the rest of the country? Child labor, high infant mortalilty rates, abject poverty, overcrowded tenements with no ultilities - NO MIDDLE CLASS AT ALL...it went on and on and on. That's what you get in the Republican/Bush model for today's America.

So anyway, while you have articulated a very fine vision for responsible and truly compassionate governance, I would like to see the Democratic Party focus on shorter term objectives to improve the lot for millions of Americans right now. It's the right thing to do. The liberal thing to do. And...it will bring new voters to the table by the hundreds of thousands. That's how we'll win elections. How will Republicans squeeze enough new voters from their true constituency - the top 1% of earners in this country - to match the gains we would make by bringing an attractive program to the other 99%? They'd get slaughtered.

Of course, if we choose to continue to follow the lead of chickens**t Democrats like Lieberman and Bayh and the rest of the DLC, you can pretty much forget getting ANY of that.

We will never see a majority in either house until the Democratic Party turns away from those "leaders."

Look how we've done in the last six cycles.

Will -

We shouldn't spend too much space here debating the merits of one Republican, particularly one who has been dead for decades, but I do think you're giving TR short shrift. He brought the meatpacking industry, the railroads, and the big oil companies to heel against stiff opposition from within his own party. He got the Meat Inspection Act and the Pure Food and Drug Act passed to protect consumers. He strengthened the ICC to regulate railroad charges. And even though he was far from being a "union guy" (I believe he loathed them) his intervention in a coal strike in Pennsylvania was a big step forward for collective bargaining.

No Republican of today would support any one of those actions. So anyway, please don't understand me on this. TR's legacy is romanticized and "claimed" by both parties...sure. But he would not fit in the current Republican party. "Mavericks" are not allowed in the clubhouse. Example: Ask McCain, a former POW held and tortured in unspeakable conditions and so-called "independent" Republican, to question this government's policy of "rendering" prisoners to other countires who have no problem at all with torturing prisoners. Won't happen.

Anyway, this is a small point not worth debating any further. If you think it's too much of a concession to attribute to TR qualities which would make him unwanted in the current Republican party, I'm OK with that.

BaronScarpia,

Oh, I agree. I just wanted to show one needs to dig deep when we look at what any President, Senator, or any party member bolsts about doing. When TR was in there McKinley had a big bunch of corruption going on and wasn't lifting a hand to stop it. Evidently, to read about it, it had reached its head. Then you get a new president which is polotically pressured by his own party to make a mends with the public. That would probably be the same if another republican wins the next presidential election. If we win that one, it will be really bad as we were going to try to straighten out the mess to start with. Kind of like FDR getting left with straightening out all the screwups under Hoover and before. Right now, we really do need another President like FDR to straighten out all the debt. welfare plans, etc. that Bush has f*cked up. It would take about as long too as it did FDR. Unfortunately, we now have term limits and two terms is all we could keep them. I'd about bet if there wasn't any limits, Clinton would be president utnil this day. In a way, I wouldn't want the job of being the next president as whoever gets it will have one huge challange to fix everything. It can be done, but it's going to take a good long while as the GOP has about bankrupted us. It's amazing how one republican can get us in so much debt in just five years and never have nothing to show for it. Plus, never balance a budget like Clinton had done. Last, loose all the jobs Clinton had created! Then again, you look at Bushes track record, with all the businesses that failed under him, and not be able to wonder why.

If you want to win your going to have to think like Newt Gingrich. You need to research the 1994 election extensively and find out what worked then and what is going to work now.

I don't think it's useful to make broad, sweeping pronouncements about "THE Democrats", when we're dissatisfied with Kerry or the Clintons, Lieberman, the DLC, etc.

Work for the candidates you REALLY respect. Work for local candidates who truly represent you, send money to candidates who speak for you, whether or not they're in your district, write letters to the editor, become a precinct committee leader, or run for office. Don't hesitate to challenge DINOs in primaries.

When you're stuck with a crappy Dem nominee, vote for the most tolerable candidate. But if you plan ahead, you might just reduce the risk of getting stuck with so many mediocre nominees.

http://www.pdamerica.org

WHERE ARE THE STATESMEN?
The Democrats need a statesman, not a politician, the future of America is on the line, and politics is over with the American people.
As a lifelong Democrat, I am dismayed because those who have become "leaders" of the Democratic Party are men and women who seem to promote themselves. They pontificate with long-winded, slow-speaking speeches. Where is the inspiration needed to be given to a nation in a downward spiral? Americans don't want politics - they want truth and inspiration.
The congress seems to have one goal, only to keep one's job. We don't hear Democrats coming out against gerrymandering, it keeps their seats also. Americans have such a low opinion of government, because no party has the true interests of the people, by the people, and for the people in their awareness - just self preservation. Where are the statesmen? Where are the Jack Kennedys, who can inspire a nation with pride to serve one another and their country, and inspire congress to represent the people, not the special interests, no matter their persuasion, who only provide money.
The Democratic Party can sieze the moment, and call on people such as Robert Kennedy, Jr., someone completely removed from Washington, or be tied to the spiral and go out of business, because the spiral is not just Republican, it is the spiral downward of the American people's trust and faith in a government, because both parties are lacking statesmen and stateswomen, who will rise above Washington, DC politics.
Democrats out here, in the field, its time to make politicians responsible only to we the people. And only the Democrats can help this country now. If not, all is lost. Americans want truth, not spin. Again, where are the statesmen?

Hey Dems,
I notice there is no John Roberts discussion today. How did that "STOP ROBERTS" letter-to-the-editor campaign work out for you? I did see one cookie-cutter letter in the local fishwrap. Powerful tactic, that.
Chunkie

Hey Right winger!
Why is there no mention of Georgie, the most incompetent President in the history of the nation

As far as I'm concerned, John Conyers, Lynn Woolsey, Barbara Lee, Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold and Howard Dean ARE Leading Democrats. The media can award "Leading/Prominent Democrat" titles wherever they like, and they can offer the microphone to whomoever they choose. It doesn't matter. I'll choose my own leaders.

If I recall correctly, Lampson was the only winner of the '04 races in TX (even though the lines were redrawn by DeLay).

But I'm glad he's going to give DeLay, the "Race Of His Life."

I wonder what Martin Frost would say about this (he lost his job in the '04 races!).

Chris Bell, the TX congressman who was Delaymandered out of his seat and who filed the ethics charges against Mr Pest Control Man is running for Governor of Texas.

US House-TX District 2
Ted Poe (R) 139,299 55
Nick V. Lampson * (D) 107,897 43
Other 3,900

Lampson's district was redrawn by stripping the NASA-Clear Lake areasand Galveston from it and adding Houston's Repug northern suburbs to his Golden Triangle base.

Whoops! I thought he won. Turns out that Chet Edwards was the only Democrat to keep his seat with the new lines.

Here it is: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/elections/2004/tx/

This Tom DeLay things seems very mishandled. If he is a criminal, I want him run out of town, but so far I can't find ANYTHING he did that was illegal. He's been charged but not convicted. Our constitution says that someone MUST be counted innocent until proven guilty, so unless we want to spit on the concepts that define our government, the burden of proof in on the prosecution to prove guilt, not DeLay to prove innocence.

Yeah, Yeah..... corruption and conspiracy sound bad.....

What did he do??

and Will,
we don't need "another FDR". He created the debt in the first place when promised all this money out to people and tipped our government policy a little closer to socialism (potentially for the better). But to go farther in that direction would be tremendously stupid. The debt would get worse not better.

Can I just for a moment sollicit feedback about the current Democratic House Leadership?

Nancy Pelosi, the Leader and face of the Democratic Party in the House, needs to change or be changed. Every single time that I see her make a public appearance, whether it be the Democratic Response after the State of the Union address, during her weekly press conference, or on a political talk show, SHE FUMBLES.

Pelosi lacks the finesse, the charisma, the know-how, and the shrewdness of a good Leader. The timing of her messages, not to mention the content of her messages, is consistently ineffective. The day after the DeLay indictment, she emerges from the Democratic Leadership Office and is dumb-founded by what should be a straight-lined press conference--and this is in a room amongst only a handful of 25 year old journalists. She is WEAK and would be a terrible person to lead the effort in the House to win back control in 2006. Take a look at C-SPAN's website, search and watch her most recent press conference--it's actually quite humiliating as a Democrat.

I need some reassurance that I'm not the only one out here who thinks that we need someone who can drive home our message in what should be a favorable election cycle. Please respond.

Hey Tired-of-corrupt-government, Tom Delay has been pulling illegal/unethical stunts for at least 4 years. Check out the archives and the web links. It's about time that this guy takes responsibility for his actions.

And by the way Tired-of-corrupt-government, FDR helped raise many families out of the abject poverty of the Depression Era and this was critical for building a strong democracy. If you don't have a middle class, then you have no democracy. Or perhaps you are Republican and don't care about having a middle class and don't want to take care of your country and your citizens? Sounds just like the neocon Bush/Cheney plan: Let the rich get richer, the middle-class go away, and the poor get poorer.

Tired

Go back out and read the other Threads here on Delay, including the one that shows the Check his PAC sent to the Republican Party, to launder and illegally send back to Texas Republicans running for office!!!!!

You are pretty gullible if you think, Delay, Head of this PAC did not know what was going on. He is called the Hammer in Congress, but he doesn't have a pulse on his PAC? I don't think that will fly!!!

Local Campaign financing scandal:

One of the facts confirmed in Texas (related to the same case that indicted Tom Delay) and Minnesota cases against local PACs is that it is illegal to transfer corporate contributions from local PACs to RNC and channel it back to local candidates. RNC lawyer, Spies who testified in both cases made statements in each case that, that was legal considering the fact that the money came from two different accounts, the notion rejected in each case. Post reported that such state laws exist in many states and that RNC claims such practice to be common at least prior to 2002. Is anyone looking into this matter and see where else did RNC collaborated with local Republican organizations and violate the state laws?

thanks
Chandra Hosamane
Vienna, VA

and Will,
we don't need "another FDR". He created the debt in the first place when promised all this money out to people and tipped our government policy a little closer to socialism (potentially for the better). But to go farther in that direction would be tremendously stupid. The debt would get worse not better.

Posted by tired_of_corrupt_government on September 29, 2005 at 11:41 PM

--------------------------------------

Talking about an ignorant, blind, stupid, moronic, republican thought, you sure had it. If they give prizes for that, hell I'll buy the trophy myself and give it to you!

(1) FDR almost balanced the budget each year when he passed all these laws.

(2) All this was done BEFORE WWII started mostly, and didn't come close the the cost of the insuing war.

(3) That put folks back to work and helped them what they could, PLUS kept them from starving to death. I guess all you republicans wanted to see the poor starve out and leave you republicans the rest didn't you?

Our DEBT that we have now was ran up by none other than Ronald Wilson Regan, your GOP president! He did in fact bankrupt this country by all the BILLIONS he sent to military contractors trying to stop a cold war which he really NEVER DID fully. In some ways, it's just as bad if not worse in Russia and China now. Regan couldn't even balance the budget while he was in office, and neither could "No New Taxes Bush Sr." who was after him. What a joke for a president he was. Bill Clinton took up the task to pay down some of our debt which he did a good job of. While at that, he created REAL JOBS, and BALABCED THE BUDGET! Then we get Cocaine Bush jr who not only destroys what Clinton gained in jobs and paying down the debt, he practically bankrupts our nation again! Not only that, the debt is more now than it was right after Regan! There's no REAL jobs hardly to be had by young folks anymore. Plus, you republicans rigged the unemployment figures by not counting the folks whos time had expired on unemployment itself. Now those figures only show a fraction of the real unemployment figures!!!!

Now son, or kiddie, I don't know which, you better brush up on your history before you ever post another post here, and get made a dumb asshole again like I just did you. Maybe even seek some psychiatric counselling too. Maybe your problem stems from your mom nursing you until you were twelve?

tired_of_corrupt_government,

I forgot to ad, I guess you consider England, Canada, and other countries who give FREE health care or medical to their citizens too far socialist or being communistic? They're more advanced than we are in this now and were slowly coming up to their standards! By God if it takes being called a Socialist to do the right thing than so be it. I'd much rather be called that any day than a sorry ass republican!

Talking about being communistic, why is it your republican party sensors your blog and will not allow a Democrat to post? If we do they ban us and delete our first post in no time flat. Why is it your party has folks arrested outside the Whithouse who are peacefully protesting and this against their first amendment rights? Why is it the GOP was caught trying to have the PBS lean towards right-wing shows and were caught at it? Why is it that at every place Bush shows up in each state to speak, your party makes the Democrats stay at least three-four blocks away from it?

I do believe I've seen this before, hummmm let's se, oh yea, Russia and China!

If you want to win your going to have to think like Newt Gingrich. You need to research the 1994 election extensively and find out what worked then and what is going to work now.

Posted by Jacko on September 29, 2005 at 04:16 PM

I think one of the most effective things we can use for 2006, is "The Contract with America has Been Broken". Then hype on the corruption in the party that ran with that, and how Democrats will TRULY bring honor into the White House.

To the republican who suggested FDR created the national debt. I don't know if you were aware of this, but FDR is no longer the president. A man, an actor by the name of Ronald Reagan became president in 1980. Early in his administration, he significantly cut taxes. Cutting taxes isn't necessarily a bad thing, but at the same time he drastically cut taxes, he increased spending. This caused us to take on between 2 and 3 trillion in debt. Then, in 1988, Vice President Bush won in a landslide. Although he referred to Reagan's economic policies as "voodoo economics" during the 1980 presidential campaign, he now firmly embraced Reagan's economic policies and added another 1.5 trillion in debt. The deficit was so large in 1992 that interest rates had risen. The cost of borrowing and energy costs had risen to such an extent the country was in a recession. A moderate Democrat from Arkansas won the presidency in 1992 by campaigning against deficit spending. He cleaned up the budget by making the unpopular decision to raise taxes. When he left office, U.S. Government revenues exceeded spending by over 250 billion dollars. The debt was decreasing. The economy was humming along at a healthy pace. Then another Reaganite, George W. Bush, became president in 2000. With the GOP in charge of both houses in the legislature and the the presidency, George W. Bush was free to cut taxes and increase spending dramitically. That's what he did. He added another 2.5 trillion to the national debt, and he's not finished. As it stands, we have nearly 8 trillion in debt and almost ALL of it, I mean nearly 100 percent of that debt, was created during the Reagan, Bush, and W Bush administrations.

Having set the record straight, we Democrats need to unite and decide what to do about this. We can't afford to have people leave the Democratic Party and vote for the Green Party. At the same time, we can't be so concerned with losing votes that have no solid positions.

Why not stand for balancing the budget through rolling back the bush tax-cuts and reigning in spending?

Why not stand for Free trade that is also FAIR trade? We currently trade with other countries who have no environmental standards, no minimum wages, and extremely low corporate taxes. We shouldn't allow multinational corporations to circumvent the tax system by moving abroad. Tariffs can be a useful tool to prevent this exploitation. We also shouldn't allow corporations to circumvent our environmental and labor laws by going abroad and producing goods at a low cost, only to ship those goods back to the U.S. free of tax. This allows corporations to undersell corporations who play by the rules. This causes corporations who play by the rules to either A) do the same thing and leave the country or B) go out of business.

We should try to pass another equal rights amendment. Women have waited long enough for us to take a stand and close the pay gap. Let's press the issue again. The pay gap is still present, let's see if we can do something about this.

We should start trying to move toward universal healthcare again. We can't afford it right now, but if we balance the budget and pay down some of the debt, this will reduce the debt service cost. The debt service cost currently accounts for more than 10 PERCENT of federal spending. If we can reduce the debt, over time, the debt service cost will go down. We can spend the money we would have spent on debt service on healthcare.

We should spend money researching alternative fuels and offer companies that help reduce our dependence on oil and natural gas tax credits.

These are a few ideas, we need to work on more of them. That way we'll be more than "just the other party."

What made the Republicans think that we wanted any advise from them? They couldn't even wash any Democrats underware!

Aren't you glad that sinful criminal is on his way out? He gives the name Christian a very soiled reputation. No wonder so many people don't want any part of Christianity, if I didn't know that Christians are better than those Republicans claiming to be moral and rightous? I would be against Christians too! THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS, THEY ARE THOSE FALSE TEACHERS spoken of in the Bible. They will deceive and be deceived until taken out of the way! Thats in the Bible also. May God Bless our government in those GOOD INTENTIONS and defeat us in those evil intentions but not at the expense of our unselfish Troops! Let it be Dear Lord, Let it be?

It looks like Tommy is going to get what he deserves finally. Oh yeah! I'm looking forward to this. Lock him up and throw away the key. Frist, your candy ass is NEXT. WE WILL GET YOU SENATOR FRIST!

Yes, my fellow Democrats, America's Second Revolution has begun. We need to keep up the fight. It's time to let the Repooplicans know WE MEAN BUSINESS! We know who the enemy is. THE ENEMY MUST BE DEFEATED! Let's see how many Repooplicans we can send to jail. Maybe, we can get Georgie to join them behind bars. If it was up to me, all the Repooplicans would be behind bars with the exception of McCain.

We must fully support America's Second Revolution. The Revolution WILL SUCCESSFULLY COMPLETE ON JANUARY 20, 2009. That is when our Modern Day George Washington, the leader of OUR REVOLUTION, John Kerry will be our next President. It will be a glorious day.

Another Republican has been found to be wanting ethically. I am so surprised. (Is my sarcasm obvious enough?) The Democratic Party (and yes, I am a registered Democrat) needs to stop being so nice and go after the GOP. Why was Bill Clinton's approval rating during the Lewinsky thing higher Gov. Dubya's are now (I don't call him President since he wouldn't have been elected if he hadn't been selected the first time!)? Because Clinton was able to give it back to the GOP and they couldn't handle it. They couldn't beat him in debates and when he through it right back at them (especially in the form of programs that actually worked) they couldn't handle it. The GOP has shown that, when confronted by an adversary that knows the issues and won't back down, they are impotent. I grew up in the 80's, when Reagan was beginning to hand the country over to big business. George Sr. just kept giving it to his business cronies. Clinton finally gives the country back to the people, and then what happens? GW, Mr. Ran Texas into the ground as governor, gets selected and elected and places America squarely back into the pockets of greedy. Please! Let's find a candidate that is ready, willing and able to beat the GOP at it's own game! There is no way that a draft dodger should have beaten a war hero, but it happened!

Will,
your irresponsible name-called and mud-flinging is the reason why our party is splintering too much. If history really does mean anything to you, allow me to gently correct you.

1) I am a social moderate. Usually called, until recently it seems, a moderate democrat.

2) The National Debt has not gone down (from year to year) since the end of the Dwight Eisenhower administration. During Clinton's, God bless the man, administration of "balanced bugeting" included. I beleive the increase was approx 1.2 trillion in National Debt.

3) Mr. Clinton and Mr. Reagan both added approx. 17 million jobs, but Mr. Reagan did it with an 18% smaller work force.

3) If you look at it from a straight numbers perspective of the total National Debt, this is what you get:
Since 1938 the Democrats have held the White house for 35 years, the Republicans for 33The Democratic yearly average (that is the years Democrats were in the White House) was an increase of 8.3%. The years while the Republicans ran the White House, during this same period; the debt increased an average 9.3% per year. Gratefully, we've done a little better than they have.
4) Under Mr. Reagan, federal tax revenues rose from $599 billion in 1981 to $991 billion in 1989. despite the tax rate cuts."By any reasonable criteria, Presidents Reagan and Kennedy were far and away the most economically successful presidents in the past half-century. They both left the economy stronger and freer than they found it. And most Americans, regardless of income level, were clearly better off." (Washington Times Economist commentary) You see, he cut tax RATES, not taxes. If the economy grows faster than the national debt, you are not getting worse but better. Reaganomics may not be your liking, but it worked like a charm. The only scam in reagonomics is that JFK, not Reagan, was the first to do it.
5) FDR is the president who took us off the gold standard (fact), the first president to allow deficit speding on a year to year basis on anything besides war, and to spend excess "revenue" from social security and turn it into an IOU (now part of the National Debt).
you're right in that I spoke far too generally and said that FDR is responsible for creating the debt, this is not quite true. But he is the President who is largely responsible for setting the direction and policies that have created the increased size of it. As JFK, Ronald Reagan, and Bill Clinton showed, the Nat'l Debt can be used wisely if it creates jobs and fuels the economy.
--
To everyone, including Will, we lost the last election both in the Congress and the White House. If we don't start including (not neccessarily preferring) moderates and social Christians and such, instead of calling them idiots, we will wake up and find that we will lose yet again next election to a nobody. If we don't take NOW as an oppurtunity to stand up, regardless of DeLay's guilt or innocence or anybody else's for that matter, and say what we believe in and will do, instead of what we won't do and don't believe in - to put out there what we will do with our government - we will be running campaigns of failure.
JFK said "don't ask what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
we need to start saying what we can do.

and as far as Tom DeLay goes, I understand all of the accusations against him perfectly. I just think that to blast him as a guilty a$$hole until he is found guilty is irresponsible, and to my knowledge, that's never happened yet. I'll be the first to scream get out, but only as soon as the courts say go ahead

LiberalInKansas,

What color is the sky on your planet? Your post made no sense.

In 1992, when Clinton was elected, Democrats ran every branch of Government. In 2000? Zilch. Nada. The GOP took over and has gained seats pretty much every election.

Can you explain to me why Social Security has dramatically improved after 5 years of Bush then when he took over?

Bill Clinton's job approvals were in the 30's - twice - and he was still re-elected. Job approvals mean nothing.

The President of the NBER (official group to declare the origins of recessions) and many other members of the NBER say Bush inherited a recession in 2000. Go figure.

FYI...Bill Clinton enacted 75% of the Contract With America.

Bush was a "draft dodger"? lol

Sheesh.

Robert,

John Kerry? Which John Kerry...There were so many John Kerry's in '04....I get kinda confused.

There was 1 John Kerry that said he would have authorized force against Iraq regardless if WMDs were found, but John Kerry #2 changed that position.

Go figure.

Hey Dash,

You sound like a Repooplican who has his head up his f**king ass. You need to get your head out of you Neo-Con ass. You are so full of shit it's not funny. Then again Georgie and all the Repukelicans are full of shit.

That's why I wouldn't trust a Repooplican for anything.

He sure has his head somewhere other than where it should be!

Read it and weep, that the Recession did not start until Bush Was in! (note the dates, )

Link

Link2

Link3

Link4

And, about Bill Clinton. Don't let anybody tell you it was the Republicans who did the Contract with America! Clinton had Veto Powers on it all, but he put the welfare reform, etc, all in!!!!!!

PamB,

Ummm, Hon...Please pay attention. (God I love this)

From the Washington Post, January 22, 2004: "Economists Say Recession Started in 2000"
"We have discussed it already and there seems to be some inclination to move the date" to some time in the last three months of 2000, said Victor Zarnowitz. He is a member of the National Bureau of Economic Research's business cycle dating committee, which determines the widely accepted start and end dates to U.S. recessions."

And then this is from the President of the NBER: "NBER President Martin Feldstein said, "It is clear that the revised data have made our original March date for the start of the recession much too late,"

Sorry.

Now, you want to explain how the recession ended in November 2001?

I predict you will not answer.

Thanks.

Robert,

Such an "intelligent" post. You serve your party well.

Later.

PamB,

What the hell does this from you mean? "And, about Bill Clinton. Don't let anybody tell you it was the Republicans who did the Contract with America! Clinton had Veto Powers on it all, but he put the welfare reform, etc, all in!!!!!!"

UnFrigginBelievable.

Hey Dash,

I guarantee I'm more intelligent than you will ever dream of being. Hey, you're a Repooplican. All Repooplicans have shit for brains. And it shows. Hey Dash, if you want war. Then it is war you shall have.

Nobody talks shit about MY SENATOR, John Kerry, and gets away with it. You'll find out soon enough why they call me the "Troll Killer".

Hey Dash,

I guarantee I'm more intelligent than you will ever dream of being. Hey, you're a Repooplican. All Repooplicans have shit for brains. And it shows. Hey Dash, if you want war. Then it is war you shall have.

Nobody talks shit about MY SENATOR, John Kerry, and gets away with it. You'll find out soon enough why they call me the "Troll Killer".

Robert,

I noticed you couldn't explain Kerry's flip-flop on authorizing force against Iraq regardless if WMDs were found.

But hey, you fired off some colorful insults. I guess if insults are all you have, you must be gettin' pretty good with 'em.

I have noticed that the level of debate declines rather rapidly in the evening....do you folks in the Atlantic time zone have a nip or two while composing your points of view? If so, you should have the joy of living out here in Idaho, where it is not yet 10:30 pm, and nine out of every ten people are Republicans, many of whom do not drink at all, due to their religious beliefs. We rarely have a Democrat even running in state and local elections. The few we have usually sound unsure of what to promote and what to criticize and consequently mostly sound like idiots. The latest non-position is to be defensive of the Latino population who are mostly illegal. The Democratic Party should be protecting the blue collar workers, like the party has historically done. But, no. Apparently it is not PC to expect people in this country to be here legally. Then, when one Republican congressman from Idaho voted against the the $56 billion Katrina bail-out, explaining that we should be required to vote perhaps a $10 billion appropriation at a time, so the subject will be revisited early and often, the state Dems jumped on his back like he had just cursed the Virgin Mary. What a bunch of phonies. Am I supposed to support these people? We used to have Frank Church, and Cecil Andrus, but now we have no one. No wonder we drink.

Hey Dash,

I have more than insults. I have cold, hard facts that your Repooplican candy ass can't handle. Then again Repooplicans can't handle the truth.

Can you explain why the economy sucks and why we have a huge deficit? I can. It's because Georgie has his head up his ass. He's giving tax breaks to the rich while everybody else suffers. Can you explain why gas prices are so high? I can. It's because Georgie is buddy-buddy with the big oil honchos in Saudi Arabia. Hey Dash, I have MUCH MORE than insults.

I take it you're knocking down John Kerry because that's the only way that you can put Georgie on the same level as Kerry. John Kerry is much more intelligent, much more knowledgeable on foreign affairs, more in touch with the everyday person, more capable on domestic issues than Georgie.

Come on Dash, is that the best you can do? If so, it's not good enough.

Hey isn't isn't this blog supposed to be how the Republicans ought to have ditched DeLay and Abramoff years ago when it became obvious how crooked they were.

But since the subjects been changed, any of you voodoo econ intellectual giants have a good Keynesian reason why after Clinton passed the largest tax increase in the history of earth, the US had the longest period of economic growth, with 22 million (not 18) new jobs, and increases in wages for all income groups?

Robert,

Ok....Here are 3 questions. Let's try these (since you didn't answer about Kerry)

1) Yes or No. There has been over 46 consecutive months of economic expansion.

2) Yes or No. 16 Democrats in the Senate voted with President Bush on those tax cuts.

3) What is the Democrat's plan to lower energy costs?

Like the John Kerry question, I predict you won't answer these.

Thanks.

PS: If you don't, I'm done with you like I am with JohnNei.

Hey Dash,

Since your Repooplican candy ass didn't answer my questions, why should I give you answers to your questions?

I have another one for your Repukelican candy ass. What was the REAL reason why Georgie wanted to invade Iraq? I know the real reason. Do you? It's not WMD like Georgie's candy ass said. I spent a year in Iraq. When I found out the real reason why I was sent there, I was very angry. It's dumbasses like you that piss me the f**k off.

1- oh yeah, 46 months of econ expansion, with wages down $1500 for average americans! OH Boy, in 40 years og bush the average income will hit zero!
2- yeah, some Dem Senator's signed onto the tax cuts, in 2001, when conditions were different than they are now.
3- ALTERNATIVE ENERGY - solar, biodiesel, hydrogen... if the days of cheap oil are over, we need to change energy sources. And drilling for more small oil fields, won't change supply-demand issues. As more third world nations get developed, the world's total energy demand will keep increasing, raising prices of the worlds total limited petro supply. The nation that develops the new energy will get the jobs, and economic growth associated with it.

ANd Dash- this blog is still about what a crook DeLay is, his indictment, his ties to Jack Abramoff, TRMPAC, and Suncruz, corruption and Miami gangland style murders.

Hey JohnNei,

Thanks alot. Dash doesn't know what he's talking about. He's just like any other Repooplican, they change the subject when they're given a topic that's not to their liking. DeLay is going to get what he deserves. Frist will be next.

Hey Dash,

How can you support our country's version of Hitler (Georgie) and the Nazis (the Repooplicans)? Well if you support them, THAT MAKES YOU A NAZI! I bet if Georgie told you to jump off the Empire State Building, you would do it. Wouldn't you?

Instead of bashing Republicans and delighting in their "internal destruction", maybe it would be best to actually do something for the democratic party. relating our government to the Nazis is way off and if you honestly think that the Republicans are nazis and George Bush is like Hitler, you need to brush up on your history and grow up. You are as immature as my two sons , and they are two and four.

DHarder,

I don't mean ANY disrespect for you, but YOU need to brush up on YOUR history. If you examine both Hitler and Georgie very closely, you notice similarities. They both had their military invade other countries. They both punished people who disagreed with them. Yet, Georgie isn't as extreme as Hitler was. Georgie won't let people who disagree with him hear him speak. Isn't that a punishment? It is psychologically. Also, the Nazis had extremely loyal to Hitler. Notice how the Repooplicans are extremely loyal to Georgie. Georgie also psychologically punishes anyone in his party who disagrees with him. It may not be as extreme as what Hitler did, but believe me, the similarities are there.

As for me being immature, I'm not immature. You are mistaking me being passionate for being immature. I don't mean to be disrespectful. I'm just being truthful and realistic.

Yeah Robert, passion is good,
BUT, we should be real careful with Nazi charges. There are some real similarities of the Bush can't shoot straight gang and Mussolini style Fascism, and some great comparisons are out on the web...

Also check out this from Crooks and Liars

Stephanopoulos: President Bush Directly Involved In Leak Scandal?
Judd posted this: "Near the end of a round table discussion on ABC’s This Week, George Stephanopoulos dropped this bomb:

Definitely a political problem but I wonder, George Will, do you think it’s a manageable one for the White House especially if we don’t know whether Fitzgerald is going to write a report or have indictments but if he is able to show as a source close to this told me this week, that President Bush and Vice President Cheney were actually involved in some of these discussions.

So DeLay on conspiracy charges, Frist insider trading, Rove, Scooter, Cheney and the President all conspiring to leak the identity of a CIA undercover operative... I wonder if the President can give himself a pardon?

Robert,

Ok...Like JohnNei, I'm done with you. As I predicted, you would not answer those questions just like you dodged the one about John Kerry authorizing force against Iraq regardless if WMDs were found.

JohnNei's answers were hilarious too. Wages have nothing to do with the GDP growing for over 46 consecutive months. His answer about things different doesn't even deserve a response. Hydrogen will lower energy costs now? Now you see why I won't respond to him either. FYI...Bush set aside TONS of dollars for alternative fuel research.

Don't worry, I won't be addressing you any more. Cowards bore me.

Later.

Hey Dash,

You say that cowards bore you. I guess Georgie and the Repooplicans really bore you. Georgie's a big spineless coward with no f**king balls. The Repukelicans are spineless cowards with no f**king balls. I guess you would bore yourself too.

Oh yeah, I noticed that you didn't answer my questions neither. So that makes us even. I'm sorry I don't support a lying sack of shit like Georgie. Why don't you come to Boston sometime? So I can meet you in a dark alley and beat the living shit out of you.

A couple parting notes (I can't stand it, I gotta say something):

1) Yes, times were different when the Democrats signed Bush's tax cuts....WE WERE IN A RECESSION! Where do you people come up with this stuff...lololol

2) Promise me that you folks will call us Nazi's and call Bush Hitler every campaign stop you guys make from now until the '06 & '08 elections. PROMISE ME!

No, but we will call Frist, DeLay, Bush and Cheney a bunch of corrupt scumbags who are all under investigation for breaking the law.

Have you ever compared the Republican Blog with the Democrats Blog? Every posting in the RNC Blog is a compliment to one or more of their people. They even write about The Liberals blasting Bush on lying about WMD in Iraq. They defend Bush in his lies or the other day I read a posting about the crime of Fraud on Halliburton over charging us on meals that they didn't deliver and they defended Bush and Chaney on that crime and several other charges up to three Billion from Halliburton! It's like the Republicans haven't found a Sin or a Crime that they didn't embrace for their Republicans. But if it were a Democrat they would want to impeach and pass a law that that Democrat could never serve in Government again. And the part that suprises me is they defend a Republican in the same crime as Political Bashing by Democrats? I don't think there is anything including Rape, murder, incest, that they wouldn't defend Tom Delay or any other Republican in? Do you think even if a father makes his daughter pregrant she still can't have an abortion without his permission? I have heard them defend this situation this way. I believe they are sick! If you can think of one Republican act that they didn't defend within the last five years or so, please post it in here?

Hey Dash,

We will keep that promise. I'll promise you something else. After the '06 and '08 elections, we will call you LOSERS.

oneforall,

Explain to me how Bush is responsible for the actions of Halliburton overcharging for meals?
I'd love to see this one.

John Kerry and John Edwards both sat on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Both said Iraq had WMDs. Were they both lying?

Bill Clinton enforced sanctions against Iraq from 1992 through 2000 because of Iraq's WMDs. Was Bill Clinton lying when he said Iraq had WMDs from 1992 through 2000?

In 1998, Bill Clinton said there were "11 WMD producing facilities" in Iraq in 1998. Was Bill Clinton lying?

If you answered "no" about Bill Clinton lying, is it then your contention that Iraq had WMDs up until 2000 and when Bush got in office, those WMDs magically disappeared?

I will patiently wait for your answers.

Oneforall,
They'll always protect rheir own against any charge; but lets roll down memory lane, of all the beauties of compassionate conservatism:

-Torture and murfer of detainees
-Paying pundits, and generating propaghanda
-Producing fake intel, getting Congress on war wagon
-Abramoff/DeLay/Norquist pay to play scandal of corruption, blackmail, and gangland murder
-Halliburton overcharging the US for gasoline in Iraq
-Halliburton overcharging the US for meals for troops in Iraq
-Halliburton overcharging the US for delivery services, wasting resources because of cost plus contracts
--and for the trolls, this is Georgie W's fault in as far as, after the first illegal actions by Halliburton, the contract should have been cancelled; if a contractor was doing this to your business, you'd fire them immediately, and considering we gots us an MBA president, one would hope they could at least understand fulfilling contractual obligations.

PS yes, Clinton 1993-2000, we did maintain the sanctions; and he was saying their were WMD's through 98, but after the missile strike on the baby formula factory Clinton fired CIA director James Livermore, and Clinton stopped pressing Iraq because we couldn't prove they still had WMD. But the UN inspectors had already left, Saddam wouldn't let them back in, and no one trusted Saddam anyway.

Then when the Bushista's were beating the war drums 2002, they rolled out lots of dubious evidence, and now 3 years later its obvious the mushroom cloud crowd were liars.

Hey Dash,

Can you explain why Halliburton is in Iraq? I CAN. And another thing, do us all a favor quit pulling shit out of your Neo-Con Nazi ass. Speaking about your Neo-Con Nazi ass, you need to get your f&&king head out of there.

When Bush's numbers start going down, and they are really going down, the right wing machine start kicking their soldiers and make them work work all the boards that will accept them, to make excuses for the Bush Republicans. We have some on this board making excuses and arguing, as if it will somehow make a difference. It is pitiful to see someone who claims to believe in the right wing bunch,having to make escuses for a party that has the President and majority in congress.If you have all that and things still fall apart,you are imcompitent to say the least. Americans are waking up and these people can't stand it.I think it is a hoot. Wonder why they don't stay with own, can't stand them I guess?

sheesh. this entire web site is embarrassing.

maybe the RNC keeps their blogs 'democrat free' b/c they don't want it to quickly degenerate into "I'll f***in bash your F***in nazi head in you f***in nazi mother f***er!!!"

Creepy postings. Completely LOONEY!!!

These wingers are here to draw you into an argument on something other than the subject, in this case Delay. They try to argue the past or just argue so the present will get overlooked and the discussion will go somewhere else. I watched these guys for a long time and they are all the same.It's part of their training. If you ignore them totally and not respond their nonsence, they will go away, and it won't take long. I guarantee. An idiotic message from a winger is just that, an idiotic message unless you respond to it.

looneyleft,

There are reasons why the Repooplicans don't allow us Democrats to respond to their blog. 1) They don't believe in the First Amendment. As a matter of fact, they don't believe in the Constitution. 2) This is a way of making sure that people of the Repooplican Party don't find out the truth. The Repooplicans want to cover the truth from them. 3) The Repooplicans know that we Democrats are right on many issues. And 4) Repooplicans don't like getting embarrassed. Even though they do it to themselves, they will always blame a Democrat. It's too easy for them.

More and more slimy facts are coming out about the Prosecutor going after Delay.

You people just don't get it. You are going to make Delay MORE powerful than he is now?

The Prosecutor has gone to 3 different Grand Juries? Earle investigating Delay for 3 years suddenly found new evidence over the weekend?

Your party is imploding, and I can't stop laughing.

But WHATEVER you do, don't stop going after Delay....You look desperate.

Tug,

Can you explain why one of the Grand Juries that Earle used declined to indict Delay?

Can you explain the "evidence that suddenly turned up over the weekend" after an extensive 3 year investigation?

Its too late now. You've already played the Delay Card. Its backfiring.

GOOD JOB!

But still, my favorite line is Howard Dean saying Osama bin Laden is innocent until proven guilty but Tom Delay isn't.

GOD you guys are AWESOME! You can be certain the GOP will gain seats AGAIN in the House and Senate next November. Bank on it.

Later.

Hey Dash,

Get your f**king head out of your Neo-Con Nazi ass. You pulling shit out of your ass again. How many times do I have to tell you to quit doing that? Are you that stupid? You sure sound it.

Pragmatic,

You're a liar.

Here's your comment: "Case in point, he mentions the largest tax increase in U.S. history, which occured under the watch of Bush I because of a recession."

Please cite for my in ANY of my post where I "mentioned" ANY tax increase from Bush I.

I will wait.

I'm assuming all of your mumbo-jumbo in your post that you don't have the balls to debate me.

Here's a question:

True or False: President Clinton inherited 23 consecutive months of economic expansion when he was elected President in 1992.

I will guarantee that you will not answer either of those questions.

Thanks,
Dash.

Pragmatic,

Cite any "out-and-out lie" I have told.

Cite any "half-truth" I have told.

Thanks.

With an overall approval rating of 28%,the lowest in the history of this poll, everyone in the country except the right wing extremist, has had a bait of Bush and his programs. The Republican propaganda machine isn't getting anywhere convincing people of what a great life they are having when they are not having one at all. Many people that Bush calls his dearest friends are being indicted or under investigation for fraud and felony charges and this tells America what kind of a person of character this guy really is.The law don't get after you unless you do something wrong.Anybody in doubt only has to give Bush the duck test, he quacks every time.

Tug,

Welcome back to reality.

Gallup has Bush at 45%...Zogby has Bush at 43%....Newsweek has Bush at 40%. So much for your "overall 28%".

FYI...Bill Clinton had job approvals in the 30's - twice - and was still re-elected.

Thanks.

Hey Dash,

When will you quit trying to blow smoke up our asses? We are not stupid like Georgie and the Repooplicans. I don't f**king know why you keep trying to blow smoke up our asses. I'm sorry, Dash, but we're NOT Repooplican dumb f**ks. Let me make this clear to you right now. You have your head so far up your ass, it's not funny. You are a pathetic excuse for a human being.

You can hear the desperation in the voices of these right wing loonies any more. The wheels are coming off their wagon and they can't stand it. Americans aren't buying the terrorist threat when Bush's numbers drop and they are beginning to look at the effect this bunch has had on them. That is the bottom line, "how am I being effected by the Bush Republicans"? The standard of living for most Americans continues to drop while the rich get richer. This is the real issue. Small business that supported Bush will be killed by his no energy policy, better known as the "Big Oil Ripoff", and their only hope is to get these Republicans out.Consumers cannot absorb this expense with an average 2-3% wage increase therefore all business will take a big hit. The outlook for our economy is one big recession. Bush has ridden the terrorist horse until it is about dead and Americans are seeing that he is bad for everyone except the rich.He is becoming one big liability to his own party and the propaganda soldiers are getting real desperate with their balogna. It just don't work anymore.

I didn't think Pragmatic_American would actually answer questions...Oh well...

Pragmatic
The right wing agenda's success depends on smoke and mirror and a lot of bull and after a time even the brain washed step back and does a reality check. Hitler tried the same thing when he visioned the great white pure blood empire of Germany. The problem is, everybody at the top knows it's all bull and spend all their time trying to keep the truth away from the sheep. It's like the pyramid game, after a while, you can't cover all the bases and it caves in on you. People will only buy into the right wing loonacy as long as it dosen't have a negative effect on their standard of living, and a negative effect is always the outcome of Reagen type economics. It just takes time and I think we are seeing the beginning of that reality check by Americans.Republicans got their majority because Americans are more greedy than not and that same greed they capitalized on will be what gets them because they are not delivering.

Talk about "Culture of Corruption" check out the facts that Professor David Ray Griffin, author of "The New Pearl Harbor", and other books brings forth relative to the 9/11 attack on the United States being an inside job. Professor Griffin is a Christian theologian.

In the following video link Professor Griffin presents very disturbing information and facts relative to the "omissions and distortions" in the 9/11 Commission Report; and raises many questions that need answers as to the validity of the 9/11 Commission Report and the Bush Administration's betrayal of the American people.

Professor Griffin argues that "omissions and distortions" in the 9/11 Commission Report amount to a cover-up by U.S. Government officials and presents facts that the available evidence suggests that the Bush Administration was complicit in the 9/11 Attack. Professor Griffin broadcasted his information on C-Span2, Thursday, April 28, 2005. The following link is Professor Griffin's video:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8765.htm

This report is long, please stick with it through the complete report and the question and answer session after his presentation.

Here is another link to a group of Muslim, Christian and Jewish scholars, religious leaders and activists dedicated to exposing the truth about 9/11 and the neo-con DFL/Bush Administration Global Domination "Project of the New American Century":

http://www.mujca.com/ and also

http://911research.wtc7.net/

The "Culture of Corruption" in this Right-Wing EXTREME Fascist administration is way too low and there must be an all out investigation of this bunch the same as Delay and Frist. It appears to me this cover-up is a conspiracy much larger than the mind can comprehend except in stages and needs much investigation.

You may have to type these links in, but it is worth it.

Pragmatic

You are so right about what we have lost internationally. I saw a program about Denmark, and how they take so much pride in working to keep the environment in good shape for the future and their refusal to tear down historic buildings and in some cases put whole communities off limits to new construction because this is part of what makes them Danes. Our government just barely recognizes Global Warming as a problem and tries to keep the truth from our citizens. Our refusal to do anything about it directly effects countries that are doing everything possible to slow it down. Who can respect a country like that? We condemned Russia for decades because they were not open with the truth but now we do the same thing. To any third party, we are the biggest hypocrites on the planet and we deserve that brand. I'm no extremist on anything but I've never seen a group of people like these right wing lunatics. I've seen a few but they were some extreme outfit that we didn't have to worry about. Now they run our country and are destroying it.What makes us Americans?

Nancy Pelosi was found guilty of the same thing that Delay is charged with. She had to pay a fine. Where is the outrage for her to resign? I have a pretty good knowlege of how the Courts work, 1st and foremost, when you get an indictment and ask the Judge to take the case you must have some evidence proving the fact. Friday in Court Ronnie Earle said that he doesn't have any evidence to back up his allegations. I predict that this will be dropped rather quickly. What I don't understand is why the party that claims to be for the common man has touted guilt, resignation, jail for an American citizen without a trial. The Democtratic Party has acted as Judge, Jury and executioner without Due Process of Law. The down fall of the Democratic party is the association with the "Bush is like Hitler", "Bush is a liar" group that bashes, disrespects and generally looks immature and desperate to the average American. Yes I am a registered Republican but before the disrespect and bashing starts I would like to inform you that I vote my concience and principle. I have and will continue to vote for anyone who I deem is the best candidate, that includes Democrats. I consistantly have voted for Ben Nelson, I voted for Stormy Dean (D) for Nebraska Governor over Johans (R). Your party has been in the bashing mode for quite awhile, which in my opinion has resulted in many losses for you. I would like to see your party come up with some ideas, we are in dire need of healthy debate on all issues. Refusing to debate and obstructionism will leave only one player on the field, that tactic has not served you well in the recent past. I challenge you all to find the Democratic Party that was once great and restore it. Yes the Republican Party has it's share of idiots as well, I am not here bashing you, we need to clean up some of ours too. But the Republican Party has been winning in spite of their idiots. The Democrats have not.

I disagree with the title of this blog. Conservatives should stick with DeLay unless he's found guilt in court. This looks like a political witch hunt by a zealous attorney.

This attorney indicted another Republican, Kay Hutchinson of Texas, in 1994. The charges were thrown out. I've looked at the information in this case, and I think the chances are good that DeLay will be found innocent.

I hope this prosecutor gets egg on his face big time if these charges against DeLay are found to be false.

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Excellent post Ninja Turtle. Awesome.

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