YES!!! Get ye some balls!!!

I can happily say I am a registered Democrat. I believe we are making a come back. I will do my darndest to make sure The Democratic Party is on a comback. We need a independent investagation commission if Bush and The GOP likes it or not. If i was the president of the United States I would not have a problem with a independent commission for Katrina and the 9/11 commission because I would have nothing to hide and would have testified in both commissions honestly. I firmly believe in Harry S. Truman's saying the buck stops here". America needs presidents and leaders that are honest and responsible like Harry S. Truman and FDR. I am extremely disappionted in the Bush administration and the G.O.P and the federal government. For those people who were willing to pay taxes for Iraq and now complain about paying taxes to rebuild New Orleans. I have something to say to them " Get over It". The people of New Orleans are more important than a greedy CEO's wallet.

Posted by themedialies on September 20, 2005 at 04:18 PM

Whatever...yawn!

How can you have an investigation when the Gouge Our People party refuse to allow simple accounting trace? To understand the fraud one needs to follow the money!

Does China count!?!?

themedialies,

Uhhhh I think it was your president and your GOP were who called for a commission first. Isn't that your party wanting the "big government"? Why did your party NOT want an independant study done? Talk about a cover up! By the way, 9/11 happened under Bush, not Clinton.

Hey Will, "thmedialies" is just another example of someone left behind by bushes education program. They do not understand that big means more. And the government payroll got bigger under bush, GOP pork spending is bigger, deficit it bigger, incompetence is bigger, arrogance is bigger but accounting is less. Gouge Our People party was never good at accounting and math.

Thermador Lobster says:

"The last thing we need is another money burning investigation committee."

"You democrats want bigger and bigger government"

This would be from one of "YOU" Republicans who spent $54 million dollars to sleuth out a blowjob...Republicans who have overssen the largest increase in federal government spending ever...Republicans who created the biggest beaurocracy in the history of mankind (fine job on the Katrina response, BTW)...

Another narcoleptic Bush baby spewing megadittohead slop all over the place.

Thanks for dropping by. Now...run along and spend your tax cut like a good little Bushie cheerleader.

BaronScarpia,

He mentions covering up for Clinton, this I absolutely don't remember happening. They looked back and found they didn't know nothing that could have helped back then in a bi-partisin investagation. I know the FBI obtained evidence about Al-Qaeda going to commit terroism in the US when Bush was in office, not Clinton. The same FBI whos republican director took the facts for granted and would not share it with anyone else. If those facts had been shared, the 9/11 incident may have been stoped. All due to a republican, not a Democrat. As I recall, it was under the republican FBI director that the very same terrorists took flying lessons and he let it slide. The republican CIA director really dropped the ball here too! The Clinton administration didn't have narry a hand in this.

Then he spoke of "big government". I'll about bet he considers Social Security, Medicare, Medicade, OSHA, the FDA, and Black Lung "big government". The very programs that help millions of US citizens every day. It's awful funny that under Bush, the Homeland Security office was formed which helped to contribute to the failure of the administration to respond to hurricane Katrina. There Bush had the director of Homeland Security butting heads with FEMA who should have been left alone as is. Homeland Security is the very first new branch of the government in years that never worked properly when it was needed. Any program the Democrat party has ever started has been to help the poor and sick in this country, but I guess that is "big goverment".

I encourage every single person , to contact their Senators and Representative, and tell them they must join in this call for an Independent Investigation!!! Email everyone you know to do the same.
Even if you have Republican congresspeople, elections next year will have them wanting to do what the people say. They are trying to distance themselves already from this administration!

Why do I get the feeling we are going to need an independent commission to look into their bungling of the recovery of Hurricane Rita?

Bush has already sent away what few military we have in New Orleans and the other Gulf states...promising that they will return after the hurricane hits. Does that mean a week later? Or after all the streets in Houston are underwater for days? Or after he invades Syria?

Forget about any kind of commission. Demand that Gonzales appoints an independent prosecutor in the Katrina fiasco. There were crimes against humanity committed by officials in the upper eshelons of this administration. They need to be indicted, if not impeached.

And why isn't Rove in jail awaiting his treason trial instead of spearheading the Second Great Republican Reconstruction of the South. Remember the first after the Civil War? Talk about corruption, repression, and taking advantage of the suffering. The only way the South will rise again is if the poor whites and blacks of the South start working together to get those carpetbaggers out of the region.

Never mind the past; how about looking into the future. What is happening with the FEMA and Homeland Security Funds to rebuild the area? Where is that money going? Another $200 billion gone missing. How can Americans tolerate so much incompetence and poor accounting of public funds!!!

I have relatives in Lexington, Mississippi and I tell you those southerners have a different viewpoint from the North.

I am talking about African-Americans - - I swear I have a Aunt down there who still think slavery is alive!

While we were down there this pass summer I went to a storefront with the Aunt whom we were visiting, and as we were walking in the door a Caucasian woman was about to exit. Now, I was brought up on respect and etiquette, so naturally, I was going to let her exit before I entered. However, my Aunt grabbed me by the arm (really hard) pulling me back and said "let the lady go first".

I was so angry I didn't say anything until we got back home I told her "I was about to let the lady out before I entered so what was all the drama about?".

Her reply - "We do things different down here everybody knows their place"

...huh?

My Aunt whom I came with (who happens to live in Chicago like me); got into it with her southern belle sister about her outdated values, I won't tell you what Aunt North said - however, I do think two sisters has stop speaking

By the time we returned home - Aunt South had called and told my relatives I was down there trying to make trouble.

The lady still have an outhouse and the scary things is all the relatives down south go by her values.

Sad Sad Sad

To the America First Democrat - We (the Dems) are making a comeback? Really? Where's the leadership? Who has stepped forward with an alternative plan to what's currently out there? Yeah, we all know this administration sucks, and now others are finally seeing the light, but people need to know how the Dems would have, will, and can do things differently. This adminstration totally botched the hurricane relief, we know. Has any Democratic leader stood up and said, "If we had been in charge, we would have done X, and so this disaster wouldn't have happened."? No, they just started whining for an investigation. What good is an investigation? What's done is done. The results of the investigation could take years. And guess what? The 9/11 investigation supposedly brought about changes to our governement's disaster response. Oops. Personally, I'm disgusted with the lack of leadership and direction in the Democratic Party.

I was listening to Stephanie Miller today and heard a piece about a Debault whistle blower that said there was a backdoor into the voting software. Someone in the Whitehouse supposedly knew about this. Of coarse it will allow votes to be changed remotely and I believe this has happened a few times already.
I personally believe that Most of Americans want what we Dem’s want, a complete change in the government. And right now I don’t think right or left issues are of much concern to the majority of America. The polls say both the right and left want him out now.
The problem is he who owns the voting machines controls the government. Until this issue is resolved, it won’t matter what crimes they commit, they will stay in power by rigging the elections for more of their cronies who will protect them from justices.
2006 is just a year away and it won’t matter who you vote for unless this changes.
I haven’t heard any discussion on this topic anywhere in the house or senate. We must start right now to focus on election reform or else the U.S.A and Cuba will have a lot in common, a President Elect for Life.

madas#!
Why should any democrat come out for your political aid? You can have all the rope you need to hang yourself! You do not need my help!!! Remember your self righteousness is on your side. Find your own solution to your political dilemmas. Democrats will help the people of the disaster thank you!

Madas# -

Amen. If there is anything to be learned from Republicans, (other than how to steal from children to feather the pockets of the filthy rich), it is how to build a political message and to stay on it. Their message for the last three years of the Clinton adminstration was "Clinton is a liar." They never strayed from it. Every issue was turned back onto that theme, they spent millions of our tax dollars to prove it, and they wasted two years of the time of Congress knowing they didn't have the votes for a conviction - all with one objective in mind - the 2000 election.

It worked.

Now, if we Democrats had been working for the past five years to develop a strong alternative message to the Republicans' Wealth Crusade, how easily would we have been able to say "See? You see now? This is what happens when you give the government over to greedy thieves. This is what happens when funding for The Corps of Engineers is gutted in order to stuff more cash in the pockets of their filthy rich friends. This is what happens when you let people who are more concerned about their investment account balances than their childrens' welfare run roughshod over the environment (yes, there is a relationship between unchecked "development" of the delta and what happened down there). This is what happens when you let these warmongers hoodwink you into supporting a war that sent thousands of Guardsmen half a world away, instead of keeping them home to help in exactly these circumstances. Do you see now???

But alas, here is what we get from Democrats, even this week:

"I did not expect [Bush] to be so strong" in addressing race, poverty and the federal commitment to rebuild in the gulf, said Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.). While cautioning that "rhetoric is one thing and action is another," Cummings wondered whether Katrina's aftermath has been "a life-altering event for the president, making him more compassionate and more empathetic."

Now, he's not special, this Cummings. Regrettably, he's just another dimwitted, pandering, timorous Democrat who has no idea how to OPPOSE.

God how people like that nauseate me.

Hi BaronScarpia,

Some Dems still have not learned anything from Rove. Show no compasion for Grossly Out-of-touch People!

You evil right wingers just don't give up....

You right wingers I don't know if you are plain dumb or just cold-hearted. The president's administration was on vacation the day Katrina hit New Orleans, the president took four days to respond to Katrina, while millions of people were STARVING, the people were depending on the government to take immediate action.

Bush makes many references to 9/11 and then when the 9/11 commission reports came out he covered up some of the stories. This president is the most unpatriotic individual ever. Terressa Kerry was right having Bush as president means "4 more years of hell". The president wants to investigate "what the federal government did right and did wrong" aka he is investigating himself. Do you know what that means? It means more cover up, more lies, and more blame on democratic leaders who placed their trust on the reaction of the federal government.

I live in Florida, when Charlie and Frances and all those other hurricanes hit this state last year, the reaction of the government was swift, I wonder why? (Election, Florida, Jeb Bush). We need the truth. Any of you who don't want a 9/11 commission on Katrina are unpatriotic, unholy, terrorist Neo conservatives. I WOULD LOVE FOR YOU REPUBLICANS TO RESPOND TO THIS POST.

I have to tell you that I am relatively ashamed that the democrats are rallying around the possibility of having there own lynch mob the way the republicans did during the Clinton administration. I was a devout republican then and was nauseated by the entire affair. Now, I have turned to the democratic party because I believed that the emphasis would be on actually helping people that needed it. Instead, here I am, newly invigorated about getting involved in my countries government, and I find out that the democrats have also forsaken the moral high ground. We all know that Katrina was botched from the word go. Whether the local municipal government dropped the ball or the state government was caught asleep at the wheel, or even the federal government leaders were too busy patting each other on the back for a record breaking vacationon and smoking cigars while ignoring the American people, it was botched. So, if we all know it was botched, what good does it do the thousands of people that are homeless, unemployed and hungry to go beating up the current administration over the whole affair. It seems to me that the energy could be better spent trying to figure out how we can find /create employment for all of those people so that they can rebuild their lives. I am also sure that the republicans don't need to be wasting their energy trying to defend such an assalt, but rather resaerching ideas that will encourage the oil companies to stop padding their pockets and gold plating their golf clubs with the money that we need to put into our gas tanks. I don't for a minute buy these excuses that demand has gone up and because of the war in Iraq it is just too expensive. However, I will save that for a different rant!!!

We don't need an investigative committee that will probably not get anything accomplished other than some good old fashioned mud slingling. What we need are some real solutions for a growing percentage of our population that has some real problems.

Right on Concerned!

America is the land of the free, right? How free is a country where elections are systematically stolen, time after time?

Should not any infringement upon the rights of voters, and the related counting and reporting of votes, be considered treasonous?

Anyone caught manipulating the electoral process should be declared an enemy combatant!!!

At the top of my Enemy Combatant List (Nixonesque, huh?) would be Katherine Harris and Kenneth Blackwell. I'd be prepared to offer them immunity provided they were willing to identify their superiors in crime.

JesterHD -

Well, speaking as someone who lives near the easternmost major seaport in the US, I have to say that from a strictly selfish and personal point of view I am much more concerned with how the federal government botched the handling of Katrina than did the state and local officials down south. Of course I feel for the people who lost family members, homes, pets, futures...don't get me wrong. However, the governor and mayor down there will have NOTHING to do with helping me and my family if some disaster were to befall my locale. So I want to see a vast improvement in federal response planning and implementation. I assume people in other parts of the country feel that way, and they have a right to do so. There SHOULD be an investigation into the failure of a massive an costly beaurocratic enterprise headed by a leader who is supposed to be strong under duress. The Clinton investigation was about the personal foibles of one man. Big, BIG...HUGELY BIG difference. So I say let's look into what went wrong at the federal level.

That said, you are a poster child for what I have been saying about the Democratic Party for years. Sure, take Bush and the Republicans to task for the systematic ruination of this country that they are perpetrating. If there's any time a party needs to know how to oppose, it is when they are in the minority. Sadly, too many Democrats think the way to operate as a minority party is to pretend they're really like the majority party (That's right,. DLC members - I'm talking about you now).

But what is offered as an alternative? Here we've failed. We don't have a clear alternative articulated that is supported widely throughout the party. If you convince a voter that the Republicans are screwing this all up, well...what do YOU suggest so that they will vote Democrat? It seems to me that we as a party just assume everyone out there knows what we propose as an alternative.

Your post suggests that's an error. A serious error.

The clear alternative is there for those brave enough to push it.

I agreee with Jester, we dont need another investigation that is going to waste the tax payers money.

The simple fact is that we already know what happened -- the government, on all levels, dropped the ball.

Democrats blame Bush (rightly or wrongly -- I wont take up that debate anymore) and Republicans blame the state officials who did nothing. Arguing over who is to blame is a waste of time and money.

Instead, we need to be focusing on how to fix the problem. Bashing the GOP on this issue isn't going to solve anything. I have no problem with a "little payback" but lets be real here-- The only reason our party leaders want this investigation is to make political hay, which may or may not help in the next congressional election. To me, that is a waste of time and money.

Republicans have been kicking our asses for years now and to date, our only strategy has been to say that "Republicans are mean and only help rich people."

We all know that America didn't buy that argument last election. We need to put specific alternatives on the table and let the people decide for themselves. Wasting money on a pointless investigation is counterproductive and will only strengthen Bush's supporters. Hell, most people already blame Bush for the problem.

Our party is about helping people, not wasting money.

Frostie

SandyH -

I agree. Of course "the alternative" is there. There are a multitude of alternatives to this Republican mess. Also, although there aren't many "brave Democrats", they do exist. I suggest that "bravery," in political terms, is defined as the willingness to lose an election defending principles, policies and programs. Thus defined there are no brave DLC Democrats...none...zippo. But brave Democrats do exist. Even that isn't enough, though. The problems for even brave Dems are in enunciating "the alternative" in terms understandable by the voting public, exciting the nonvoting public enough to register to vote for it, convincing a vast majority of party leaders and elected officials to stand for it, and staying on message.

What are we getting now? Lots of swishy consultant speak about "values". C'mon....this is just another case of Dems doing what Republicans do because...after all...they're winning elections, right? "Values?" WTF? "Values" don't mean as much to an unemployed family as a job does. "Values" don't mean as much to a working mother as day care and preschool do. "Values" don't mean as much as a competitive wage for someone who is lucky enough to get a job in this miserable economy. And "Values" won't get new voters to register to vote for Republicans.

We need new voters. Register millions of new voters and we can abandon this stupid, failed battleground state strategy.

Look at what the ignoramus DLC leads with in their four point program - "security". What stupidity. That's like standing outside of a police precinct and trying to convince citizens to come to you with their problems rather than the cops. Even if the cops are doing a terrible job - they're the cops and you aren't. Security is their issue - it isn't yours. So find something else to distinguish yourself. Security won't cut it. It won't register new voters.

We keep playing this foolish game of chasing after the mythical middle of the electorate, hoping to win a few states on the most slender of margins by...well, I guess just by accident. If that isn't lousy politics it sure is pathetic math.

If Democrats are EVER to win an election cycle again, they have to come to the poor and working class of this country with a deep and broad federal progam of economic, educational and healthcare assistance. Yup - BIG GOVERNMENT. Big gvernment is not evil. Big Government saved this country's ass in the 30's.

To get the chance to do good with big - I said "big" government, we first have to accept Bush's challenge and actually fight "class warfare." They're the only ones shooting right now. They represent the richest 1%. We need to convince the country that we represent the other 99% so that they will come out and vote - new voters in droves.

That's not going to happen with "values" or promises of being better on "security." It won't happen by just assuming the voters know what we stand for, either.

Dear ALL!
I think having a independent inquiry rather than a Bush administration controlled one regarding Katrina is important..The British Liberal Democrats largely think that as well!
A POSITIVE THOUGHT FOR OUR FUTURE!!
Would it not be great that we had a two-pronged attack on the Bush/Blair regime come the next national elections...We have much in common to get the Liberal agenda back in both our countries!
Many Brits would like too see the Democrats back in power in the USA and the Lib Democrats here in Great Britain!Thats something worth fighting for!
The World would be a better place for it in so many ways..Not perfect but alot better than what we have endured up to now....!
regards,
Christopher Wheatley
Liberal Democrat - London

Please quit extolling the virtues of the 911 Commission. It was a freakin white wash by a bunch of politicians that even postponed the fault finding until after the election in order to protect their own and then even failed to follow through on that. Please, enough! The 911 Commission was a failure.

Dear MyrtleBeach,

Thanks for the post, I thought the article was very informative.

However, I still feel that it would be a waste of money to hold an investigation into the matter. Heads have already rolled and Bush has taken heat on this issue. We should get back to what is important in this country and leave the finger pointing to the other side.

Sandy, I partially agree with your post. However, I would like to point out that big government did not end the great depression -- time and WWII ended the great depression. Mind you, I am not picking on FDR or his programs, just clearing up what ended the great depression.

With respect to class warfare, we get our asses kicked every time we engage in that battle. We have been fighting this fight since the early 80's without much success. Everyone seems to forget that the rank and file republican is not wealthy. In fact, I would suspect that there are just as many millionaires in our party.

Rank and file republicans believe in something, rightly or wrongly, and they vote. That is what makes them dangerous. Our base stands for something but doesn't vote. A good example of that happened last election. Pundits everywhere were predicting that millions of new voters, mostly young people, would turn out and vote for Kerry. Damn shame it didn't happen (not that I whole heartedly supported Kerry). Instead, Mr. Rove orchestrated one of the greatest political campaigns in history at the grass roots level and millions of new people voted for Bush.

Engaging in class warfare is a losing a losing battle.

Frostie

wheatley01,

You are exactly correct! The thing is, it was the republicans who hollered for a commission first. However, as you know, they wanted to run it themselves. Since a commission was going to be started no matter what, THEN the Democrats stepped up and demanded an independant commission. Folks complaining about the Democrats and a commission has to look at the facts, the republicans were who started it. They did it for damage control where they could lie and cover up what truly happened. Hopefully, since they requested it, and the Democrats got it to be independant, the whole thing will backfire on the GOP. That is in my opinion why the Democrats backed it only by it being independant. That's called giving the republicans enough rope to hang themselves. Even though the majority of the people world wide knows that Bush and his administration was at fault, I guess the republicans need paper proof to accept it.

Frostie94,

I guess you think that works programs like the CCC and WPA didn't give millions of Americans jobs before WWII under FDR?

Will,

I am not saying that these programs didn't put people back to work but the Depression ended because of WWII and the wars economy. The amount of time between the market collapse and WWII also played an important role.

FDR's programs were moderately successful in creating jobs (even though the Supreme Court killed several of them) but what they did do was change this country's perception about the role of government. Prior to the New Deal, the idea that the federal government should play a large role in peoples lives was unheard of. FDR changed that.

However, that still doesn't mean that the New Deal ended the Depression.

With respect to the independent commission, I would rather focus my energy on fixing this country's problems than pointing fingers at Bush.
Everyone knows he screwed up by appointing a croney to run FEMA. The only thing that will matter is what he does to fix the problem. This whole ugly episode wont amount to anything in several months.

Bush may take a hit and the republican congress may take a hit but when the shit hits the fan, voters in Montana or any other red state wont care about that and will vote for the incumbant. Just remember, all politics is local.

Frostie

Frostie,

My thoughts on the depression which my father, mother, and grandparents lived through, which later told me about, said that the Depression would have been over due to the New Deal. WWII only made it happen quicker and was not the sole cause for it to be over. One has to remember how many works programs was started under FDR in the 30's and how many labor laws. The CCC and WPA was only two of many. They didn't pay a huge amount but as poor as folks was from Hoover times, they were happy to get what they received. The Federal Emergency Relief Act of 1934 provided unemployed workers with pocket money to try to move to find jobs. Hoovers stand was for "indirect relief" (which is like trickle down economics) while poor folks were starving. Here I just want to set the history straight no matter what some economists might think as they didn't have to live poor through those times most likely.

I agree that republicans will vote republican no matter what. The problem is we have Democrats straddling the fence and voting for a republican. That has happened right in your home state of WV where the majority of voters are Democrat, but the state still carried Bush. It's odd that they would vote for a Democratic governor and Robert Byrd (who in my opinion is one of the greatest senators of all time), then turn around a vote for a republican president. You now have AT Massey Coal throwing millions of dollars into the republican pot. Plus they voted for the daughter of a governor who went to the Pen, and if I recall her husband was investagated for drug charges right after the governor was indicted. On top of that, there was hundreds of college kids registered to vote at each university like Marshall who never lifted a finger to vote after it was all said and done. Now this state here, Ohio, I expected to carry Bush as it's always been a republican stronghold. However, we almost won it the last election. My question is why so many in WV and a few other Democrat states voted for Bush? This is what we need to straighten out, get those folks voting for their party like they should, and get all the registered voters out to vote, then we would win!

Wheatley01, I second your comments, and thanks for weighing your thoughts on our message board. In fact, I think the United States is shifting to the left, although the corporate-owned mainstream media is certainly not reporting on the phenomenon. Layoffs, outsourcing, incompetent war for dubious motives...the reasons go on....

SandyH,

I totally agree with you about Rove. What he done was treason and he should be dealt with as such. Since the so-called investagation started, they have kept a lot of things hid from the press. The reporters of the Washington Post get some leads from folks that are afraid to reveal who they are over the GOP firing them. What I figure they'll try is to sweep it all under the rug using Katrina to cloud the fact, and hope we'll all forget it. Treason used to be just cause for a public hanging and I wished they'd bring that back for ones like Rove. Maybe then if they knew they'd get their neck stretched, they wouldn't try to pull this stuff as much as they do. When I see them lead Rove out of the whitehouse in shackles hopping his way to the patty wagon, I'll then believe the investigation was above board. That day, I will say I'll rejoice, and if I could walk, jump up and down!

Concerned Citizen,
I disagree that the country is moving to the left. If it is moving anywhere (which I doubt), it is probably moving to the right. Rural America is growing more conservative every day while urban america is becoming more liberal. I would call it a wash. The problem is that most rural repubicans vote while most urban dems dont.

Will
WV's problem is that we are a conservative state and the Democratic party is becoming more and more liberal. Most WVians cannot relate to our party's leaders. In fact, most WVians would never vote for Kennedy, Schumer, Pelosi, Boxer and Kerry. I know I wouldn't.

The reason why people here vote for Byrd is because he has been a WV institution for a long time. I cant explain it. Most WVians I know are pro gun, anti affirmative action, pro life (or more likely indifferent), anti UN and anti-environment (at least according to the Sierra Club's definition).

Byrd on the other hand usually takes the opposite position on these issues. He is pro choice, anti gun, pro UN, and to some extent, an environmentalist. Go figure. Damn shame he is using the Senate as a nursing home.

In the past, most WVians voted democratic because of our party's stance on labor issues. That is changing. Like most states, WV's union presence isn't strong anymore. In the 70s, we had over 100,000 miners. Now we have around 10,000 miners. I believe that since this issue isn't important anymore (at least in the minds of most WVians), our states core conservative beiefs are being pushed to the forefront. As such, that explains why our state is voting republican.

Our party needs to focus on several things to change that (at least in WV). First, we need to drop our anti gun position. Study after study shows that gun control has never worked and never will. Gun control is an issue that kills democrats in rural states everytime (ask Daschle). Second, we need to focus on issues that affect everybody (ie health care). Ten years ago, I was opposed to national healthcare (like most people). Since then, I have seen the light (or at least a lighter wallet).

I think peoples perceptions are changing. I am a consumer lawyer who deals with a lot of people who file bankruptcy. A lot of my clients have to file bankruptcy because of skyrocketing medical costs.

The only people getting rich in WV, and most other states, are in the drug/health industry. People can't afford medical care. Doctors are getting richer while ordinary people are being forced to file bankruptcy. Something needs to be done about this and that is an issue our party can run with.

And before someone starts criticizing Bush and his ties to the pharmeceutical industry, let me say that both parties are guilty of taking special interest money. Stop pointing fingers and lets come up with something that will show the American people we change things.

Just my thoughts between appointments.

Frostie

I think it's funny that whoever administrates this blog found it necessary to delete all of my post. This is the former themedialies, under a new name now. For all of you people who read the beginning of this blog and was wondering who Trish, Will_Matney, Bothell, and BaronScarpia were referring to earlier, it was me. I wasn't defending Bush, or the republicans, I don't really care about them right now. What I have seen in Katrina is a failure of government as a whole. All I was asking before and all I ask again: Is the ideology of "Bigger Government" really the answer to these situations? I just don't see a bigger government working in America and I have yet to ever see it work well anywhere in the world. So is there another way to do it? I'm just throwing the questions out there. A silly commission won't answer these questions no matter who's running it. But they are the applicable questions that our country needs serious answers too. Feel free to challenge me on this, and I promise I won't make any personal attacks. I also hope, but won't be suprised if it happens, that this post isn't deleted as well.

Frostie,

I know well why Byrd is in there. He has done more for WV than about any senator who has ever served. He has brought a huge amount of federal dollars into the mountain state in every form and fashion from highways, and every other means he could do it. I'm not too sure either that he is staunchly against guns as what I've read and listened to him, he was only for the newer licensing requirements and a waiting period. I can get along with that myself, only someone who was wanting a gun for the wrong reasons couldn't. Don't get me wrong as I was a hunter and started hunting when I was around 14 years old. I'm 40 now but handicapped or I'd be doing it to this day. Matter of fact, I ran a gunsmithing shop in Kentucky for several years. The Brady law didn't bother me in the least bit and that's all I've ever heard Byrd say he was for, not totally against having guns. However the NRA would have folks to believe he and every Democrat are which is NOT the truth.

The fact remains, as reported by WSAZ at election time, that there were more registered Democrats than republicans in WV. They were even commenting about the fact that Bush was winning in a Democrat state because of it. If that's the case, how did Bush win the state? I remember when Arch Moore ran for his last time, he promised the highway dept everything to get votes. I remember my father then saying watch what will happen. As soon as Arch was elected, about every state road worker was laid off. Then of course we know about his corruption, but folks would still vote for him. After knowing how he was, he bound to have brought his daughter up with the same beliefs, and they vote her in which I still can not understand. The campaign she ran against one of your fellow lawyers was some of the dirtiest mud slinging I've ever seen. I would have give my eye teeth to seen Jim Humphries win. I remember some of her ads against him and still get my hackles up over it today. Then when we retaliate, they call us playing dirty when the GOP started it. I've met Nick Joe Rayhall and talked to him persoanlly. Actually had some drinks with him one night. He was and still is one of the best you have in WV for the poor folks. I've not seen Moore do much since she's been in there but bring up something only after Byrd or Nicky Joe does first. If the ones in WV who are registered Democrats would vote for their party, I think the election would have went the other way, both times. If that could be worked on, I think things will turn around in three years.

InPursuitOfTruth or themedialies,

I would like to ask you one question about "big government". Do you consider the below big government?

United States bank holiday, 1933: closed all banks until they became certified by federal reviewers

Abandonment of gold standard, 1933: allowed more money to be put in circulation to create a mild inflation

Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), 1933: employed young adults to perform unskilled work for the federal government

Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), 1933: a government program that ran a series of dams built on the Tennessee River

Federal Emergency Relief Administration (FERA), 1933: provided breadlines and other aid to the unemployed

Agricultural Adjustment Act (AAA), 1933: paid farmers to not grow crops

National Recovery Act (NRA), 1933: created fair standards in favor of labor unions

Civil Works Administration (CWA), 1933: provided temporary jobs to millions of unemployed

Public Works Administration (PWA), 1933: employed middle-aged skilled workers to work on public projects, cost $4 billion

Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) / Glass-Steagall Act: insures deposits in banks in order to restore public confidence in banks

Securities Act of 1933, created the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), 1933: codified standards for sale and purchase of stock, required risk of investments to be accurately disclosed

Indian Reorganization Act, 1934

Social Security Act (SSA), 1935: provided financial assistance to: elderly, handicapped, delinquent, unemployed; paid for by employee and employer payroll contributions

Works Progress Administration (WPA), 1935: a reiteration of the PWA, created useful work for skilled workers

National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) / Wagner Act, 1935: granted right of labor unions to exist

Judiciary Act, 1937: FDR requested power to appoint a new Supreme Court judge for every judge 70 years or older; failed to pass

Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), 1938: established a maximum normal work week of 40 hours, and a minimum pay of 40 cents/hour

In 1929 federal expenditures accounted for only 3 percent of GNP. Between 1933 and 1939, federal expenditure tripled, and Roosevelt's critics charged that he was turning America into a socialist state.

Socialism;

In Marxist theory, it refers to the society that would succeed capitalism, and in some cases develop further into communism. Marxism and communism are both very specific branches of socialism that do not represent socialism as a whole.

Just one answer will let us know how you think so we can understand what your getting at.

i'm still waiting to hear what paul bremer did with the 8.8 billion missing from his overseeing of iraq. that would sure help our own in norleans.....

Will,
I believe that Sen Byrd is anti-gun. Although, I am a staunch supporter of the 2nd Amendment (you will take my gun when you pry it from my cold dead hand). We can debate the gun issue another day but the fact remains that many people view Byrd (and Rockefeller) as anti-gun and that hurts national Dems campainging in WV. Sen. Kennedy would never get elected in WV. In fact, most big city Dems would never get elected in WV.

You raise a valid point -- Dems outnumber Reps nearly 2-1 in this state. In my county, a Republican hasn't won a county election since the Great Depression. I still think that my previous post explains why dems in this state vote for Republicans. Capito is a good example, she is a liberal repubican (moral conservative, fiscal liberal). Many people are turned on by that.

As for Jim Humphreys and Ms. Moore...no comment other than voting was like choosing to be shot in the stomach or the head. One more comment, that entire race was bad. Both parties lied and distorted the other candidates views and positions.

I am sick to death of both parties distorting the other sides positions. To simply claim that Democrats only want "big government" and that Republicans only care about the richest Americans is intellectually dishonest. I dont want to rehash my previous posts (from the weekend) but the truth is that both parties share the same goals for America. The difference lies on how the parties choose to reach these goals.

Frostie

The Republican definition of big government seems to be any programs that promote the welfare of the population in general. The "big government" of FDR kept this country afloat, when this country and others was sinking under in a world wide Depression. His methodology was certainly a lot more humane than Hitler's solution of building a giant war machine, and attacking his neighbors. What I don't quite get is that the "small" government of the Republicans keeps trying to meddle in my personal and religious life while stifling my right to tell anyone and everyone that I don't like it. It may not be "big government" but it sure is "Big Brother".

Frostie94,

I don't want you to think I'm coming down on WV only. I am originally from KY and had to move here at the age of 21 because all the coal mines shut down under Regan. Years ago, KY was a Democrat state where they controlled everything from the cities to the governors office. Now it's not like that, they have a republican governor who has really showed his ass since he's been in office and now under investagation. I was from Pike County which was all UMWA controlled coal mines. During the Regan era, they shut them all down and re-opened them later as non-union knowing Regan would support them. When Regan fired the aircraft controllers that time, the unions started loosing their toe-hold. Regan cut the coal gassafication and liquification plans that was started under Carter which was a bad blow to the coal industry. Regan and the GOP knew exactly what they were doing, union busting. This continued on for 12 long years counting Bush Sr. before employment picked up at all. Now down home, things are again as bad as, if not worse than what it was under Regan. It's the same for your state too. What I can not fathom is why they will vote for the very ones who are against them. Both WV and KY needs to be worked on to bring them back like they were, Democratically controlled. To be honest, they might as well forget Ohio as that has always been a republican stronghold. We put too many of our eggs in Ohios basket the last election. We need to concentrate on the more southren states from WV, KY, and down to FL. We need another southern Democrat like Clinton who can rally the crowds and then I think we can get the president and senate back. We also need to work, and work more to insure these states folks vote for the party they're registered for.

Will_Matney,

First off I would like to thank you for your rational response. I don't know if you just copied and pasted that info or if you actually knew it off the top of your head, but if the latter is true you certainly know more about the FDR presidency then I do. I'm not going to argue that some of the things FDR implemented during his presidency didn't help the economy get back on it's feet. However, I do think that there might possibly be more effective ways to do the same thing without giving the government more control over my freedoms and my money.

The reason I think socialism is a bad idea is because it takes away the power of the people. You see when the government provides the people with things like welfare, salaries, land, healthcare, and retirement plans among others, they gain a certain amount of control over you. If your living on their land, earning their money, and utilizing their benefits, what’s to stop them from taking those benefits away for whatever reason they want? If there is no privatization of anything, then nothing is stopping them. The other problem is that they don't necessarily have to take it away, they could just mess it up (like Soc Sec). Then what are you left with if there are no private retirement plans?

I understand the underlying idea of socialism is to equalize everything so that everyone has the same as everyone else and no one is greater and everything is fair. Which I admit sounds wonderful. But it can only work in theory. The reason is because if government officials control all that you have then that automatically sets them above everyone else, and if you think that there are enough people out there who can actually be trusted to disperse equally without giving themselves a little extra, well I guess I personally don’t trust humanity that much.

I believe in governmental encouragement rather then control. Such as cutting taxes and certain regulations to allow businesses to grow and let the economy provide more jobs for itself. I guess I just enjoy the freedom of earning my own money, living on my own property and taking care of my own needs.

Those are my thoughts. I might be a little off as to what you would interpret as socialism, so if I am let me know, but that’s kind of the view of socialism in my mind. Again thanks for giving me a good response to my question. I’m here to be challenged and I appreciate you coming through for me.

I like what someone said on another blog! He said, we will give Carl Rove the money and support to investigate himself. We want to know if he outed Valery Plame? We expect him to swear himself in and check all the tapes of phone calls, e-mails,waterfountain chat and tell us if he can find any evidence that he is guilty of a Felony? If he can find any fault then we expect him to charge himself guilty and fine himself and put himself in prison for whatever he believes is the fair sentence? I wish some paper would publish this crap? Do you think the stupid Republicans would be embarrassed to know the World thinks they are crazy for investigating themselves?

It seems that everybody is trying to find someone to blame for the response after Katrina. Is Bush, Nagin or Blanco to blame? It seems to me that too many people are playing partisan politics and too few people dealing with reality. The fact is that this was the largest natural disaster in the history of the United States. The good Mayor to his credit issued a mandatory evacuation order well in advance of the storm. Although some of the people didn't have the means to leave, the majority of the people that stayed behind had automobiles and chose not to leave - 200,000+ automobiles were destroyed in the flood. Did the people that stayed have the 72 hours of supplies that everyone in Hurricane Country is supposed to have? The hurricane hit on Sunday; the levees failed on Monday; The First Responders started rescuing people on Monday, but were later pulled from the rescue effort to battle looters. The governor requested help from the Federal Government to evacuate the stranded, and the federal government sent 500 buses. (It took a long time to get the buses there, because they were coming from all over the country) The President ordered the Pentagon in to help with the rescue and the Defense Dept. mounted the largest helicopter airlift in the history of the world. Over 40,000 National Guard Troops were sent to New Orleans in a short period of time. This was an extraordinary response to a cataclysmic event. Katrina became more a story of politicians and 24 hour news channels taking cheap political shots at each other and not about the hurricane and heroic rescues that took place. Don't form any stupid commissions to trash Bush, Blanco, Brown or Nagin. How about using the examples of this hurricane to convince people to leave when the gov't issues evacuation orders. How about convincing people in hurricane zones to prepare for hurricanes. How about not letting any rebuilding below sea level or any rebuilding not to hurricane codes?

InPursuitOfTruth,

The list was copied and pasted from a longer list I have here as I can't remember every blessed thing they've done as it's too long, even though I know they done it. The last one was ending with Carter creating FEMA out of several other aide departments started under other Democratic presidents. The list didn't have anything for Clinton as I haven't added it. I do know that Clinton and Gore shored up the Untited Mine Workers health plan because it was started under the federal government. I think it was to the tune of $40 million right before they left office. The whole list I have compiled, I didn't think would be alright to post as it's a very long one. I figured FDR was enough. After that we get into all the civil rights and anti-discrimination laws passed under Truman, Kennedy, and LBJ. Kenedy also seen to the war on poverty in Appalachia and LBJ continued it.

Being a Democrat is not being a socialist in any way even though the GOP may want others to think this. FDR prooved that by the actions of the GOP under Hoover. Hoover started the RFC or the Reconstruction Finance Corporation, I think you would say this is big government, however it was only designed to give money to the railroads and banks. There it is again, give to the richest and nothing to the poor and the same thing as trickle down economics. During 1932, It was found that after an accounting that most of the money went to a few large firms. FDR and his administration straightened this out and seen the money was more equally distributed. You can find this in any history book on the subject exactly the way I'm telling it. If it hadn't been for the programs of FDR this nation would have went belly up to the point of no recovery. All this time the GOP was calling Democrats a socialist. Socialists are not for liberty and freedom of speech. Socialists are not for human rights and or anti-descrimination laws. Socialists are not for womens rights and or equal rights. So why did your party call us this after we have been the only party to uphold the same and have passed every law for them? If it hadn't been for Social Security, there would have been many old folks without an income if they were let go by their employer. If it hadn't been for SS there would have been many disabled people die as a result of not being able to pay for health care.

I can keep on ratteling off more and more the Democrats have done for this country and I don't consider that big government as they help the poor, disabled, and old people. What is big government is when the GOP had the government spend $54 million to investagate a president only finding he cheated on his wife. What big government is the recent new arm of the government created under a republican, Homeland Security, whos first big response to help was a disaster. What big government is, is a president using every dime he could get and spending it on the military for a cold war and bankrupting the country. What big government is, is the $8.8 billion missing in Iraq. Not one thing I can think of has been done for the poor, etc, under a republican president that wasn't politically motivated or was forced upon them by the people.

Tax cuts that may save you money now. However, with poor folks starving and children in need, you will not be able to take it with you in the end. However, you will be judged for this in the end. From this and the GOP claiming to be the choice of the Christian Coalition, how could one vote for anyone who would take away money for the poor, needy, and the old? That to me this is a contradiction and being a hipocrit. Now how isn't this good for us, the poor, handicapped, disabled, retirees, and young children? You can preach it is big government all you want, but caring for the citizens of your country is the very first step in being a Democracy. The only way you can pay for it is through taxes because a huge amount would not pay a lick if they didn't have to. Jesus said "Ye who do to the least of these do it to me" when speaking of all people including the ones who needs help the most.

Will,
Well I definitely see where your coming from. I am all for helping the needy and providing for the poor. I think that as a nation we should be concerned about the poverty in our country. I think that the main point we disagree on is the way government should go about doing these things.

I am a strong believer in the power of the people. I believe that it is the individual people in this nation that make it great. Organizations like the Red Cross and other non-profit charities and humanitarian aid groups are where it's at. I would, in a heart beat, rather give all of the money taken from me in taxes to these organizations. They have proven their efficiency and impact time and time again. I believe that the best thing our government can do is to fully support these organizations in every way they can without making them another department.

I think that we should rely upon the government for defense and stability. Not welfare. Now don’t get me wrong, welfare is incredibly important and we need to fight the poverty in our nation, but we can do that by supporting our local and international charities who have always managed to do more for less then the government has ever done. When there is a great need the government should give money to people who will rise up and form and organization to fight off the need. But the government itself doesn’t need to take control of it.

The things that we have ceded to government control have had good impact in some ways, and as of now there is no danger of them having to much control. However, any type of government is like a starved lion, who will eat up money and control as much as possible unless kept in check. The more power you give them eventually the more they will want. Even Republicans if left unchecked will try to take control of things they shouldn’t. And the same goes for Democrats.

This isn’t a battle between who loves poor people more or who will provide the most for everyone, it is a battle between ideologies and what tactics reap the greatest benefits.

Good. Now maybe the Democrats can investigate why while they controlled the Senate on June 19, 2002, they confirmed the director of FEMA (Michael Brown) by a unanimous voice vote. The hearing on Brown's confirmation was headed by none other than Joseph Lieberman (D).

It might have been "a Bush nominee", but Democrats did nothing to prevent that nominee from being confirmed.

Investigate that!

Fostie94,

There hasn't been elections for the past 5 years.

If you pay attention to the numbers, the result comes out

You can't have anything when there isn't real elections. Votes are getting stolen, voting rights are a thing of the past, and the whole thing is a wash.

You want to talk about "improving" but nothing is going to change unless the voting issue is TAKEN CARE OF.

Pay attention to TV and watch Howard Dean. He's getting the message out there. So is Nancy Pelosi, about what the alternative is and about the government we deserve to have. They're doing that every day and reaching farther and farther...

However, not enough democrats are doing this. Still is this way, and until you vote out the corrupt democrats who don't do this it won't change. They will stay opportunists.

I'm all for replacing the whole party with true speakers like Dean and Wes Clark, definitely. Kerry's speech was fine too but he should have been there earlier.

Beyond that though, election reform has to happen. That's just the way it is. Don't talk about elections unless everyone can fairly vote their mind.

nick

InPursuitOfTruth,

There's a BIG hole in your methods as private charities have no accountability. When I worked at ACF Industries, I had a weekly deduction taken from my check which was donated to the United Way. I paid into this for two years. The third year, they investagated the CEO and some underlings of the United Way, and found he had been embezeling millions of dollars. He had bought a mansion or two, a private plane, and limos out of the money plus living high on the hog. All this by ill-gotten gains. That's not the only case of this as several have been caught up in it. There's more dollars which are spent going to the ones who need it through the federal government due to the fact its accounted for or supposed to be. You would be surprised just how much of donated dollars actually go to the needy. Now you may call Social Security big government but for a private business to take on the task they do, it would take just as much if not more folks to run it as what it does now. Matter of fact, they do have spending caps set where doctors and hospitals overcharge. I get a receipt once a month from SS showing how much they were charged and how much they paid. Medicade has a cap on payments too. Most likely the CEO's and VP's of a private charity would be getting filthy rich like the ones in the United Way fiasco did. An investagation of Unicef showed once that if I remember correctly, only $1 in $40 went to the poor overseas. There's really no accountability in a huge number of these charities. When there's these amounts of money involved, the federal government should have their nose in it. That way they catch the con artists faster than what they would without. That's whats happening in New Orleans right now since Bush sent all the blank checks to the large contractors which were meant to make the owners filthy rich. Bush has already stopped them from paying the prevailing wage for workers where now they can pay them any low rate they want. This more and more makes the top few richer and richer. Why not pay the workers the average prevailing wage? No wonder the unions are really bucking this and I dont blame them. A lot of unions are used through those very contractors and I'll say before it's over they'll either not work or strike right after they start. I don't blame them one bit doing it. You cant pay skilled workers slave wages and get by with it. Anyhow the Social Security Administration, Medicare, and Medicade has been proven time and time again that it was, and is the most needed thing in this country for a lot of folks. Their dollars spent helps a huge number of folks each day that could not live without it. I highly doubt any private intity could do the job they do for the people of the US. In my view, I think it's one of the most un-american things to put down Social Security, or any other health and welfare branches of the government because they were all set up to help, not hurt.

Nick, Nick, Nick...

So many errors, not enough time (or vodka)

First off, Wes Clark is a Republican in sheeps clothing. If the Bush administration would have appointed him to some "high level" post, he would still be with the administration. Of course that might explain why Powell or Stormin Norman cant stand the man.

Howard Dean does not represent the Democratic party and neither does Nancy Pelosi. They are too far left of the mainstream to be of any benefit to our party. Like Will, I believe we need a southern conservative democrat to unite our party. New England liberals and West Coast liberals have been running our party into the ground. Clinton had his faults but he understood this and until the rest of the party figures it out, we will be the minority party.

With respect to voter fraud and voting rights, gimme a break. We have been screaming that since Florida. Listen carefully, Bush won. He won the recounts, all million of them. He even won the recounts of the recounts. And dont hand me that crap about the Supreme Court. As far as I am concerned, it never should have reached the Supreme Court. The Florida Supreme Court, with a democratic majority, threw out the will of the people and ignored state law. To demand recount after recount and to ignore election deadlines makes a mockery of stare decisis and our system of government and law.

The idea that Republicans have the ability to steal the election or to hinder voting rights is nuts. They do not have that power. Granted, voting irregularities occur, but they occur in favor of both parties. Hell, Louisiana (and WV, my home state) are notorious for voting irregularities and both states have strong democratic parties. Hell, I seriously doubt that Mary Landrieu would have been elected to office unless several thousand dead people voted for her in her first election. Get real and stop finger pointing. The system aint perfect but that aint the reason we cant win.

Frostie

Will,

Well you are definitely correct that a lot of Americans unfortunately do rely on Social Security and Medicare. It seems like a good thing but the government is so inefficient that I would place bets that the government has simply wasted as much money as was embezzeled with United Way. And wouldn't feel so safe to say that government officials don't embezzle money as well. And you are absolutely right, this lack of accountablility is a huge problem with private organizations. However, the governments job should be to enforce that accountability. This falls under relying upon the government to stabalize society and enforce just regulations.

Also you mentioned that no private orgs out there could handle the immense task of providing SS to everyone. You are right there isn't one single company that could. But many smaller companies together could handle it. And that would create competition which means that you would probably get better care then SS could ever provide because everyone would be trying to one-up each other. I gaurantee that where there is demand in this country some private business will rise up and meet that demand.

Just look at how much better the private orgs were able to handle the hurricane disaster as oppossed to FEMA.

I'm telling you, the power of the people is always and will always be greater then even the biggest most extensive government.

Frostie,

No, you need to wake up and smell the actual coffee. That IS the reason they can't win, or ANYONE can win, without cheating.

And by the way, this well documented evidence has been going for some time.

The free press reports of credible and conclusive fraud.
History of fraud in Ohio and elsewhere, against liberals and any african american.

Now there really isn't a huge problem with the "party".

Dean is not really a liberal he is a progressive. The alternatives are clear, and short. "Our" problem, that is the progressives problem is in motivating our base. Not in motivating all the conservatives.

To motivate the base you need CLEAR actions like Dean does, and FAIR voting. Don't hang your hat on some "southerner" to give you that. Remember the last civil war? That's right. Our country is still involved in as much racism as ever, and the blacks are still spit upon by conservatives, just not as much-and they aren't hanged.

The voting scam is the MOST serious issue. Without fair equal votes, everyone will cheat.

nick

By the way, other then that I agree on issuing environment regulations, gun permits and most other points of mention.

nick

InPursuit:

I'm no communist, and I'm not a socialist. However, unfettered capitalism is, in my opinion, worse than both.

Unchecked by restraints of government, unfettered capitalism brought upon this country:

1) Child labor.
2) Unspeakably unsafe working conditions and rampant work-related disease.
3) Company towns where "alternative employment" was only a dream.
4) Predatory pricing and other monopolistic practices which made the annihilation of competition a matter of a week or two of light work.
5) Prowling, armed thugs bending the individual worker to the iron will of ownership.
6) No health care benefits.
7) No vacation benefits.
8) No retirement benefits.
9) 70+ hour work weeks.
10) An entrenched upper crust of unimaginable wealth.
11) A nation of poor.
12) No - that is no - middle class.

The middle class in this country was INVENTED by government. Governmental constraints designed to reel in unchecked capitalism are the reason millions of us now have the ability to get our kids educated, to keep them protected from the workaday life until they are adults, to keep them healthy, to enjoy personal time, to lead long lives and to retire. The income tax leveled the playing field to some extent, making the societal commitment to preventing an entrenched upper class. Right to work laws and laws protecting collective bargaining made it possible for unions to thrive and to bargain for workers' rights. These were not ceded voluntarily by the robber barons. Anti-trust laws were created to protect small businesses and consumers from rapacious practices by corporate behemoths.

These and more were governmental curtailments of "corporate freedoms" made in the interests of the individual.

Go back and look at the state of the country in the 1870's to 1900. There you will find the Bush model for America.

I mean this sincerely. If you have any doubts about Bush's stance on any issue, find out what American company is most affected by the issue. Ask the CEO of that company where he stands. THAT will be Bush's stance. If no company is affected, then and only then you can assume Bush's stance will be the same as Jerry Falwell's.

Want to keep abortion legal in this country? Easy. Give the exclusive nationwide rights to performing them to Halliburton.

Dear Nick, I thought Republicans were bad about conspiracy theories. Bush did not steal the election. Yeah, there may have been voting irregularities in OH, Nevada, and New Mexico but so what. There is no doubt in my mind that there were just as many voting irregularities in favor of Democrats as there were for Republicans.

As for the exit polls, so what if they showed Kerry leading early on. Exit polling is not an exact science. People lie. Anti-Bush voters could have voted early skewing the poll results. Bush people could have voted later on. I have read some worthless stuff in my day but those two sites you linked are pure garbage. We got beat because we nominated a liberal New Englander and that scared the crap our of middle America and they voted for Bush.

Mr. Rove also did one hell of a job in organizing Bush supporters at the grass roots level. Our party should take notes.

With respect to Mr. Dean, he consistently makes stupid comments which hurt the party. You are right, we need someone who takes action, but Dean's actions are not what we need.

And one more thing, just because you are conservative does not mean that you hate blacks? I am a southern conservative democrat and I dont hate black people. I am also anti-affirmative action based on race or gender? Does that mean I hate black people? Of course not. It just means that I have a different opinion on how things should be done. To stereotype conservatives as anti-black just because they have conservative views is just plain stupid.

Before I get spiked on my anti-affirmative views let me explain that while I oppose AA based on race or gender, I support AA based on economic need and geographical location. Poor people, regardless of nationality or race deserve a helping hand.

Frostie

Frostie: Wrong again, this isn't based off just simple exit polls its based off of conclusive reports of vote switching and hacking, plus vote supression.

You also claimed Al Gore lost the election. This is also false. As well, the 2002 elections WERE rigged in several key states.

Until you get this philosophy, nothing else matters:

Count the vote
Elections all over have become a mockery, unfair and unequal representation

In addition democrats stole the election in Washington, found extra ballots, and you are correct democrats stole as well in Missouri. But the republicans stole congressional seats and no less than TWO presidential elections, that is why nobody believes a word they say.

And they've done it through hacking ONE single Diebold machine (or a set number of them), purging voter rolls, and re-districting areas to have unequal representation for provisional ballots or any ballots.

It is NOT a damned conspiracy. Jimmy Carter just admitted Al Gore won the 2000 election and that 2004 if it was fair would have been Kerry winning. The point is, THERE IS CHEATING. BLATANT CHEATING. And until the cheating is dealt with, you can swim up a moon and think up ideas.

I agree there has to be a landslide, and without a consistent opposition there won't be a landslide. Which is why I say Dean's position is best and AFFIRMATIVE ACTION. He's got John Warner, he has everyone in those red states working now too. Dean's the best opposition that happened for the DNC. He's turning all his words into action and results, whereas some rich white liberal or conservative would give a nice speech and then not produce anything.

Remember Terry McLauiffe? Yeah I thought so. This is THE Best thing that ever happened to them, and even moreso if they uncover all the fraudulent votes.

nick

BaronScarpia,

You are 100% right about unchecked capitalism. Without government accountability it can and will go crazy. Which is why I said in my last post that the government HAS to maintain accountability of private orgs. To me that is one of the governments biggest responsibilities. However maintaining accountability does not mean creating a government controled wefare organization, primarly because who is going to hold the government accountable?? Themselves? Thats like saying companies should audit themselves and we can trust whatever they think is right. You would never trust a company to be justly accountable to itself. Now you could say that the people keep the government accountable, and you would be correct. But it's hard for the people to enforce accountability on a government that controls every aspect of their welfare and has a monopoly that keeps people from finding alternatives. The government can't be trusted anymore then private organizations. It requires a balance of powers.

As far as middle class goes, I do not think that the government invented the middle class as you say. I believe that middle class will always become stronger whenever equal opportunity is enforced and competition is created.

So for the most part I agree with what you said. Just remember that accountable government does not equal governmental welfare.

Nick, greetings from the moon.

From up here, your ideas look much better and are easier to understand. I guess the lack of oxygen really cleared up my thought process.

First off, Al Gore lost. Every major newspaper in the country recounted those votes. In fact, if memory serves me correctly (and it does), one newspaper even recounted the ballots using Gore's preferred method. Bottom line, Gore lost, regardless of what Jimmy Carter says.

With respect to your assertions that the election was rigged, there is no point arguing with you. I would have a better chance trying to convince Osama Bin Laden that George Bush was his best friend than convincing you that the election was not rigged.

Again, I will admit that there are voting irregularities but to claim that the Republicans cheated and stole the election goes to far. Admittedly, the system needs to be modernized but that doesn't mean the whole election process is rigged. Get real and quit relying on garbage news sites for your information.

Do you honestly believe that if the election had been rigged, Kerry and our party leaders would have given up so easily. I think not.

With respect to Dean doing something, sometimes inaction is better than action. Just because Dean is doing something does not mean that he is doing the right thing.

Frostie, you are in complete and utter total denial.

With respect to Dean, he has increased the base vote for democrats and percentages of democrats more than ANY chairman has for the DNC, with the tide turning in FAVOR of democrats more than 52% vs 38%.

And by the way, there is still alot more work to be done. Dean knows what he is doing because he's produced actual results, been involved in solving the voting problem, and has helped more than 26 states RE-BUILD their democrats from the ground up.

I'd say he knows what he's doing far more than you realize, and in addition, that's translated to results.

Al Gore did in fact win the election. I'm not even a fan of Gore and frankly stand behind someone like Hackett or Reid. But Gore did win, it was 100% not Bush's win.

2000 election stolen
Election recount yields stolen result
2002 elections, counter-feited

With due respect, you also said the downing street memos were a conspiracy theory on one of Dean's other topics. I don't trust you are "in touch" with reality yet.

This is NOT the moon, it is a fact elections have been rigged by republicans. And democrats both, especially in local states.

nick

Nick,

First, I have never mentioned the Downing Street memos in any of my posts.

Second, Dean has been in charge less than one year and hasn't had time to do the things you claim. Trust me, it is going to take longer than one year to turn things around and we certainly wont see any visible results for some time.

The only person here who needs a reality break is you. You also continually fail to use any reliable news source for your information. You remind me of Mel Gibson in Conspiracy Theory.

Your 52% to 38% comment doesn't even deserve a comment.

Al Gore lost the election. Get over it and move on. The only person who isn't in touch with reality is you. Whats next? Are you going to tell me that Bush had Rehnquist killed so he could appoint two justices to the Court?

Frostie,

What now? Is it still a loser conspiracy?

Republicans are just as quickly to jump on the fraud bandwagon as democrats, only they claim the "mysterious" votes are double-voters and voter fraud run rampant.

When in reality it is purposeful mistakes at the BOE level left on machines.

Tell me which is more likely:

Over 100 thousand voters doing voter fraud in states like Ohio, new jersey to tilt elections

OR....

A few crooked election workers changing the results on the machines.

What has already happened in Ohio, is several convicted of illegal election tampering (recount) and also cooked results. Especially in Lucas County.

Now, you are going to sit here and tell me none of this means squat and I am absolutely wrong in pointing out fraud?

Who's the one not living in reality here, exactly? And also, the downing street minutes really happened. We aren't on mars Frostie, its time to come back down to earth.

Is it so hard to understand that rigged elections are a reality and so is science?

nick

By the way, what does this have to do with Rhenquist? Is his record against blacks any better than Roberts? He's an old southern civil war man.

You claim the racism issue is a thing of the past, but more conservatives today than ever, certainly are not over the civil war and hold heated feelings towards color skinned people.

Can't play both sides, can you?

nick

The wonderful thing about all this is there is no possible way to blame the Democrats for it, oh I imagine that a few will come up with some half baked idea about how the democrats made the hurricane happen 10 years ago and now its just now starting to show, you know the same way they blame the current deficit on Clinton lol. All Republican facts are BS, most of their facts rotate around blaming the previoiusly in power democrats.
Facts are your guys are in power, they have created the deficit, they have gotten us in this stupid war over oil, they failed us at 911 and they failed us when the emergency of Katrina hit.
Yet you still vote for them, .. are you just stupid?

It's amazing how we can all take the focus off of the victims of Katrina. This disaster was unprecedented in it's magnatude. Under any administration, Federal coordination would have had it's hiccups. And how convienent for the state and local governments to pass the buck. Even our fair former President Clinton came out in defense of our federal government in terms of Katrina response. President Bush should not have to apologize- but continuing pressure has forced him to. He could part the Red Sea and most would criticize the cut of his hair. This continual bickering seemed just and fair at first, until key dems made asses of themselves at the Roberts confirmation hearings. Dems need to focus on positive things on the horizon, and stop with the witch hunting and finger pointing. The party can only feed of negativism for so long.

It's amazing how we can all take the focus off of the victims of Katrina. This disaster was unprecedented in it's magnatude. Under any administration, Federal coordination would have had it's hiccups. And how convienent for the state and local governments to pass the buck. Even our fair former President Clinton came out in defense of our federal government in terms of Katrina response. President Bush should not have to apologize- but continuing pressure has forced him to. He could part the Red Sea and most would criticize the cut of his hair. This continual bickering seemed just and fair at first, until key dems made asses of themselves at the Roberts confirmation hearings. Dems need to focus on positive things on the horizon, and stop with the witch hunting and finger pointing. The party can only feed of negativism for so long.

The war in Iraq is not over oil. Can you demondstrate any proof of this? You're forgetting that the World Community was behind us when all of this began, and as it unpredictably unfolded, the finger pointing began. Do you not recognize how necessary it is to have stabilization in the Middle East?

Oh, and if you truly believe that the election was 'stolen', do you also believe that we faked the moon landing? And is there an actual 'agenda' to keep blacks down?

Uhhhh I think it was your president and your GOP were who called for a commission first. Isn't that your party wanting the "big government"? Why did your party NOT want an independant study done? Talk about a cover up! By the way, 9/11 happened under Bush, not Clinton.

Posted by Will_Matney

Duhhhh hellow Matney, wakey wakey... 9/11 happened under Bush because that useless bastard Clinton failed several times to get Bin Laden when he had the chance. Thanks to Clinton 9/11 happened. He is the No 1 reason besides Bin Landen that it did

the 9/11 incident may have been stoped.
Will_Matney

YES Matney it might have been stopped had Clinton had any balls to get Bin Laden, but he FAILED and he is responsible for 9/11 happening.

9/11 is not the fault of the administration; it would have happened regardless of the administration. What's shocking is how we pulled together as a nation so quickly and in no time, became more divided than ever. Hindsight is always 20/20. I shudder to think where we would be if Bush hadn't 'stole' the election.

Nick,

J.F.C.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I give up. Arguing with you is like arguing with my little sister. I make an articulate point and you completely misread or misunderstand it and then make another senseless argument.

At least your last link was dated from this year. Let me repeat. Voter fraud happens. It happens everywhere. Yes it is a problem. But there was no nationwide strategy by the GOP to stop African Americans from voting. Bush won -- both times. He won fairly. Get over it.

Pointing out fraud is one thing but to make the argument that Bush and the GOP rigged two presidential elections is something else.

For example, the Rehnquist comment was not talking about his conservative views, but your gullability when it comes to conspiracy theories.

As far as I am concerned Nick, we are done on this subject. If you want to discuss something else. Fine. I will entertain a new subject but this argument is getting us nowhere and is giving me a headache.

With respect to 9/11, Paddy is correct, 9/11 would have happened anyway. Anytime someone is willing to die for his cause, it is virtually impossible to stop them. Clinton may or may not have had the opportunity to kill Osama but hindsight is always 20/20. At the time, nobody could have predicted that Osama would plan such an attack. It is easy to criticize Clinton now.

It is just as unfair to blame Bush for 9/11. Just because something happens in the current administration doesn't mean that they are responsible for it.

If that was the case, then Reagan is solely responsible for ending the cold war. There isn't an elected democrat anywhere who would support that argument.

Frostie

Lets see....two freepers try to spin lies, and then Frostie94 feeds the lies again more due cause.

You are setting a hilariously reckless precedent. Do you not understand the filth coming out of your mouths are lies?

9/11 was a coverup, even the republicans admitted it now and its been COVERED up.

Real 9/11 story, 9/11 commission whitewashed reports.

Jimmy Carter has openly admitted Al Gore won the presidency.

9/11 continues to be covered up, and whitewashed from our own SENATE even getting the truth.

I know everybody's sick of the lies, but I see them coming to these blogs to repeat the same lies anyway.

You are supporting an illegitimate toad of a president if you do not ACCEPT at face value that every single thing born from this, has been basically a pathalogical lie.

He IS a pathalogical liar. Face in and ACCEPT it. Roberts is against civil rights and helped sign the slavery act with Chief Rhenquist. These are documented.

The LIES he has said on TV are not true, that if he and his GOP cronies can lie about one thing....they can lie about EVERYTHING is what you need to get through your skulls.

I'm going to say it this crystal clear and simple especially for all newcomers:
FACT CHECK EVERYTHING. If he has lied about a few things, there's no reason than to question everything and see how many things were lied about or what. And some of it is theory the rest is fact.

LOOK INTO EVERYTHING, AND ONLY THEN, DECIDE WHAT YOU ARE SEEING.

nick

Nick,

You are almost as bad as the Republican hacks who post mindless dribble in this forum. At least the admin bans them.

I tell you what, when you start writing in complete sentences I will respond to your posts. Until then, see ya.

Frostie

So Jimmy Carter says Al Gore won. I guess that really brings it to the light! Too bad he lost in 1980 by such a large margin. No guesswork there...

Nick,

Do you really credit NY Times as being objective? What would you do if the next president is a dem? Although, under the 'wisdom' of Howard Dean, this is unlikely. (Say what you will, public perception is negative.) Is the moon made of Cheese?

Captain,

How do we know you aren't the very republican hacks who are infiltrating here to stir up trouble?

Again, I deal in logic and facts and you give me nothing but lip service. Are facts that hard or terrible to comprehend?

Also, Hillary is just part of the hierarchy. Real democrats know she is just in it for the money and they are all friends with PNAC anyway.

Have you paid attention to history or the links either for that matter?

You right-wing kooks are the same ones who said the New York Times was a credible piece of news when Judith Miller was spinning her disinformation. And long after that, too.

Now you're saying its a bunch of bullcrap? So which is it? You can't have it both ways.

Also if the rigged elections aren't real then why did this happen and why is Diebold/ES&S stock dropping like a large vacant 100 ton anvil through the ice?

Shares of Voting stock fall again

Keep it up guys. I actually think your rhetoric is helping the democrats, or you wouldn't be constantly on the defense.

nick

Also Senator Clinton will not be at any war rally. Her base is with the same one as the GOP.

nick

Paddy,

No truth to the allegations about Al Gore or 9/11 coverup?

Then why are so many republicans also waking up and asking questions, about how Al Gore was robbed of his presidency?

Republicans falling away from Bush Admin's lies, claiming Gore was robbed. Kerry was also disenfranchised by e-Voting.

Is this so "tinfoil" now that it can be discussed in mainstream republican circles? Certainly, lets go right into that debate. Perhaps it is HIGH TIME all of you, conservatives included, stop hinging on the GOP spin and recognize lies.

Disinformation is PREVELANT, so I can not blame you for spouting the "LIES" but you sitll have to admit they are LIES. When you admit the problem, then you can cut away from a misguided, keeled off conservative agenda and look for a real alternative.

I admit such an alternative is not in place yet. But it first takes ADMITTING the problem to be able to affect it, anyway. And a government which is PROGRESSIVE is a very needed, desperately called for alternative.

nick

Its a vaccum of lies you have to wade through, because of the corporate aristocrats:

Hmmmm
nick

Nick,

First off, I am a democrat. Second, thank you for using complete sentences.

For the very first time, I agreed with one of your statements -- "Hillary is in it for the money and power." That is true.

What really irritates me is your claim that she shares the same base as the GOP and I am forced to defend her. Hillary does not share the same base as the GOP. End of story. If you believe that Hillary and the GOP share the same beliefs then there is no hope for you.

Frostie.

PS Stop liking those ridiculous sites. Nobody cares.

"Hillary is in it for the money and power." LOL, when I hear this tired, old charge I have to laugh because it's like criticizing Donovan McNabb for being in football to win championships. Well, no kidding! And I don't think the Senator is in politics for the money, as the Clintons are constantly overindebted by all indications. No, this is a woman who went to Yale Law and then chose politics. She's very good and very smart, and the radical right hates her precisely because she is a tough liberal.

Alright well here was my point Frostie which you missed:

Hillary is an opportunist and is interested in the same big oil companies as the Bushes and don't they basically go back a long ways.....

John Kerry while he was pretty much a opportunist, he had genuine plans and integrity in order to pull america back from the dark age.

He had an honest agenda that cared for all working class americans. If the election had been fair he'd be in the House right now.

Clinton(s) do not and I don't think anyone like Al From ever did. That is how I see things, and I'm sure you see them that way as well Frostie.

So open your eyes to the truth about america, there's alot of crimes and conspiracies going on. Open eyes save lives.

nick

Re:

I have to tell you that I am relatively ashamed that the democrats are rallying around the possibility of having there own lynch mob the way the republicans did during the Clinton administration. I was a devout republican then and was nauseated by the entire affair. Now, I have turned to the democratic party because I believed that the emphasis would be on actually helping people that needed it. Instead, here I am, newly invigorated about getting involved in my countries government, and I find out that the democrats have also forsaken the moral high ground. We all know that Katrina was botched from the word go. Whether the local municipal government dropped the ball or the state government was caught asleep at the wheel, or even the federal government leaders were too busy patting each other on the back for a record breaking vacationon and smoking cigars while ignoring the American people, it was botched. So, if we all know it was botched, what good does it do the thousands of people that are homeless, unemployed and hungry to go beating up the current administration over the whole affair. It seems to me that the energy could be better spent trying to figure out how we can find /create employment for all of those people so that they can rebuild their lives. I am also sure that the republicans don't need to be wasting their energy trying to defend such an assalt, but rather resaerching ideas that will encourage the oil companies to stop padding their pockets and gold plating their golf clubs with the money that we need to put into our gas tanks. I don't for a minute buy these excuses that demand has gone up and because of the war in Iraq it is just too expensive. However, I will save that for a different rant!!!

We don't need an investigative committee that will probably not get anything accomplished other than some good old fashioned mud slingling. What we need are some real solutions for a growing percentage of our population that has some real problems.

Posted by JesterHD on September 21, 2005 at 01:18 AM

B U L L S H I T !

Troll.

Re:

Posted by GOP4me on September 22, 2005 at 07:14 PM

Posted by GOP4me on September 22, 2005 at 07:19 PM

Posted by GOP4me on September 22, 2005 at 07:45 PM

B U L L S H I T !

Republican Troll.

George W. Bush Lied.

George W. Bush Slaughtered 1,912 American boys.

George W. Bush Lost an Entire American City to a Hurricane and Rising Flood Waters.

George W. Bush Has Blood on His Hands.

If You Voted for Him, You Do Too!

Never Forget!

Never Forgive!

God Damn George W. Bush and all his minions and supporters to Hell. May All You Greedy, Bigotted, Lying Bloodsuckers Burn Forever in the Fires!

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

At the very least, Paul who I gather by his posts on other blogs is from Texas......is waking up.

He knows the truth about that man he's been following, how long will it take now for the rest of you freepers to awaken to the same truth?

No, this isn't pretty. But nobody said democracy was a pretty thing, you have to fight tooth and nail and often bullet to make it stick.

When government gets too corrupt (both parties) its up to the people left, and the people alone to replace that government with entirely new faces and throw out the traitors.

Today, you don't APPEASE your enemies especially if they live in evil and greed plus corporate inheritance. You fight them until they are no longer in power.

nick

And to that, I will appropriately say amen. Its time for this evil to be gone.

nick

Don't you know we are dealing with pure Christians that wouldn't put their eternal life in jeopardy? They will avoid the very appearance of evil! They wouldn't lie because God said that Satan was the Father of lies and liers? That means all liers have about as much chance of going to Heaven as Satan does. God said those that cheat and steal are living a lie and have believed their own lies and will be damed? God said to say you are a Christian and are not, will have their place in the lake of fire. If anyone is doing these things while claiming to be a Christian, (God said is a lier and the truth is not in him)? True Christians know that if you sin deliberately after you have tasted of forgiveness of sins there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. That Christ died once for all. We accidently, unthoughtly sin sometimes and if we ask God to forgive, and we repent and turn from that sin, he is faithful and just to forgive us of our sin. But don't deceive yourself God is not mocked, if you delibertly sin, you will reap what you sow?

Paul,

Do not the people of Iraq deserve the sme basic human rights that we take for gratned in this country? First of all, Bush did not lie. It was not on his whim that we went to Iraq. World 'intelligence' came to the same conclusion about the state of Iraq. Our senate (at least 96% of it) agreed that something needed to be done. It is necessary for Iraq to be a stable, democratic country. The alternative would be too dire. I'll admit that Bush is an unpopular president fighting an unpopular war, but the hatred aimed in his direction is largely undeserved. Should I be made to believe that I have blood on my hands for voting for him? Does the majority (albiet a narrow one) of voting americans have the same blood?

Katrina was an unprecedented disaster. Under any administration a bit of unorganization would happen. Bush declared a Federal Emergency two days before Katrina hit. The responsibility of 'first response' lies with the local government, who, charactaristically so, was quick to pass the buck. To say that a city was flooded under his watch means to imply that he did it, or at best. could have prevented it.

American lives have been lost in Iraq. No one underscores the signifigance of that. But to say they have been slaughtered by our President is an unjust thing to say. You're forgetting we are at war. Although the connnection to Islamic-fasicsm is at least three degrees from what is happening in Iraq, it is a war that, unfortunately needs to be fought. Iraq has harbored terrorists, and along with Afganistan and a few other areas in the region, needs to be ironed out. Now to say that they deserve democracy as a people may be an uncertain thing to determine, but the necessity for a democratic Iraq is necessary for a stable Middle East and will untimately contribute to our well-being at home.

We had 'Blood on our hands' before Iraq. It was on 9/11.

*Sigh*

Captain, do you also firmly believe that terrorist muslims are going to take over the world starting with the United States?

Do you honestly believe that 3000 or so muslim arabs in their pigskins, could overthrow the United States completely, without our government simply handing them the keys and saying "have at it"?

If you do honestly believe this is a real possible scenario without inside help, or for that matter are convinced this will happen you really need help right now.

The real terrorists are Cheney and his cronies Conrad Black, David Radler and the rest of AIPAC. They have for years been plotting the overthrow of the arab world and taking over the oil foundaries....Its been in plans written up before PNAC was even REAL for that matter.

Bush is so stupid and negligent he doesn't even ask what they're up to. He doesn't even want to "KNOW" what they're up to, he just wants to keep things running and make some money for blood....off of that oil.

Look, the facts are they whitewashed the 9/11 commission. Able Danger really did know of the attacks, the neocons in AIPAC wanted the attacks and signed a check and yes they wanted to destroy Iraq take all the oil in Serbia and reformulate the whole place.

Everybody labels this anti-semitic and I have to say the garbage has to stop, the damage is done. What these people have done is the most heinous thing against jews or americans that anyone will ever see.

And yes, thats what you realize once 9/11 is confirmed a coverup. Their motives are clear as open day. What they didn't expect, was being so incompetent they couldn't even manage the wars properly and everything fall apart....

Those misguided, insane, evil people many of them feel "persecuted" in a sad way since 1940. We created the situation with Bin Laden and friends by our actions with the Israeli backed AIPAC invasion of Lebanon, and every other country.

These guys have basically wanted to wipe everybody out for a while, and yes have the oil to themselves. The one thing each nation's leader hates above all is any arab, of any sort taking their land or water.

We played this game for decades and sold countries WMD. Lets NOT play the game of, "oh don't blame bush bla bla". No, lets play the game of blame Bush and all his handlers because they deserve to be blamed.

The Truth: Uranium lies and complete intelligence fabrication.

He openly LIED and knew he lied. The proof is right here. Don't deny it anymore, suck up the lies, and scrape them away for the truth so we can get rid of it NOW and not later.

nick

Where is the national petition for us all to sign demanding an independent ivestigation into FEMA's and the Administration's
failure to respond to the people of the Gulf States?

Democracy in the USA was founded on the principle of... "of the people by the people and FOR the people."I don't think that was just for the wealthisest and most powerful.

Ok... Aside from the goofy websites that you inform yourself with, just how has 9-11 been 'whitewashed'? Are you suggesting that it is Bush's fault? Oh, and I love the *Sigh*... as if you are so inlightened. You're type of politics, i.e. fettering away at your computer while the world is 'closing in', will never see thier way to the surface. Bush is not a perfect president, but you make him out to be the Devil himself. How stupid the American voters were to let that one get by!

Yes, I believe Muslim extremists do want to take over this country. That was made clear on 9-11. Are you suggesting that the threat is not there and we should let our gaurd down?

No, the american voters WERE that stupid. Those that didn't get completely eliminated by fraud just simply voted against their own interest.

And the taliban, aka "the terrarists" can not take over the United States. If you still believe that load of bullshit, I have a bridge to sell you in argentina.

It would take millions of troops to overthrow the United States. A group of arabs with towels on their heads could never do it unless the government itself helped them to do it.

And that is exactly what we're dealing with here once again after you look at the facts that 9/11, the entire commission was WHITE-WASHED.

Huge numbers of reports omitted from the 9/11 commission

Able Danger coverup, 9/11 whitewash

Al Zarqawi phenomnenon, Zarqawi does not even exist. May not even be anything but a CIA agent.

9/11 official omission hearings and distortions.

Its impossible to ignore, and it definitely is NOT just Bush it is him and the corrupt leaders like Joe Biden, like Clinton, and even Pelosi.......who are controlled directly by AIPAC. If you've not a clue about AIPAC you better google it....that will serve you right in swallowing the lies like you have been.

If 9/11 was covered up and the war was a lie, how many other things are lies and complete fabrication?????

Open your eyes to the truth Captain, and you won't run blind.

nick

Nick,

I am not opposed to learning all sides of issues. There are always two sides to every story, often more than that. I do not think our country could ever be overthrown, I just think that we are at risk for another attack. And if our guard is down, whose to say it wouldn't happen? I admire the love you seem to have for this country, and if you want to keep it protected and keep enjoying the freedoms you have, don't you think some middle ground could be found here?

I don't think that Bush is the greatest president we've known, but I don't think he is a malicious as these goofy websites seem to think. I am a Republican. I think Republican ideals make the most sense. My faith in Bush is starting to wane- I don't think he's an evil man, however. I just think he's been faced with the most challenging things in our nation's history. And you can't do that without stirring controversy.

In hindsight, I would have voted for him again, not because I'm in love with his approach, but because the Dems offered little in John Kerry. He seemed to want to please everyone at once. His main strength was that he was not Bush. These are difficult times we live in, no doubt. We'll see what happens in 08. Maybe Dean's approach will yeild something. Hopefully not Hillary, as we both know she could never win.

Do you really think that the dems are as 'squeeky clean' as you profess? Was there not a mountain of controversy behind Clinton? (Whitewater, Vince Foster, Lewinsky, ect..) If history has taught us anything, it's that controversy will follow any administration, regardless of party. It's whether or not we indulge it it that will separate us. Are you getting all the facts? These sites seemed to be tilted way left, toned with hatred for Bush. I do not mind examing all sides to an issue, but the hatred I can do without.

I admire your tenacity, but perhaps you should look at things more objectively. It's one thing to think that Bush has made incompetent decisions, it's another to think he is evil in nature.

Who do you see leading the pack for the Dems? Do you think there's a chance for 08 (provided we don't 'steal' it again. ha ha)

No, I think John Kerry is a good man and a strong leader. I also believe he's just as corrupt as Bush by these 'AIPAC' games.

He has not once come out on the record against PNAC, who seems to be the root cause of everything.

PNAC: The Truth about American Century......"Middle East" Century

Frankly I want Sibel Edmonds or someone like that to become president or at the least run, who isn't afraid to call these bastards out on the carpet.

While Bush may not be the evil devil incarnate that everyone wants to make him out to be, he is by definition an accomplice: An incompetent fool interested in self-gratification.

The true evil behind this scheme, indeed the devil's advocate is Richard E. Cheney and his group of AIPAC linked terrorists.

Neil Bush and also the grandfather Prescott, made deals with the Russian Mafia and also the Nazis. You'd be good to get educated on this 'history' and open your eyes.

Cheney became involved as a result of Neil, A.Q. Khan, Abdul and Ariel Sharon while they were dictators of Pakistan.

Ever since the deal by Kellog Brown & Root fell through, to take over the Caspian Sea pipeline these world terrorists have been plotting a takeover.

The ultimate manipulator, Mr. Jack Abramoff was involved with these shadow spies and helped Michael Chertoff, Adam Kidan and most remembered.....9/11 leader Mohammed Atta have free passage all over the United States.

Now then, this shadow operation is guilty of at least three counts of treason against the United States. In addition Bush* is guilty of being an accomplice by receiving Halliburton proceeds and doing nothing to stop it. He is also guilty of aiding the enemy, allowing an incompetent group of fascists free reign.

Under all accounts, Michael Ledeen and the AIPAC cartel are the most incompetent fascists to take over anything in over 30 years. They would fall apart if it wasn't for the corporate media.

Bush is an enabler, Kerry is an enabler and what we need is a Paul Hackett standing fighter to drive these crime soaked cronies out.

That is why I'm working 100% of the time to get them removed, and do away with the DLC inside the Democratic Party. The DLC is nothing less than PNAC/AIPAC enablers and they are not opposition.

Progressives to every corner of government, that is the only way to stop them. I will stay independant as always, vote progressives only and encourage every resident to do the same while getting rid of the vote machines.

Cheney and his henchman Libby are guilty of high treason. This is why they have BLOCKED the Senate more than four times, from hearing the Able Danger testimony.

That's the bottom line.

nick

Nick, you're crazy. You can call yourself enlightened all you want. Hell, you can even believe it. Devoting 100% of your time to "Get them removed". Do you actually think you can do this? Do you think they'll, as you say, hand over the keys?

Nothing will come of your rants. You will try and 'enlighten' everyone within earshot. I commended you for your love of country, asking you nicely to explain your positions. You then lean forward and pour your posion into me, and anyone else that's listening. If you really want to change the world (country) you'll have to do it with a little more tact. When you say you're devoting 100% of your time to overthrow, what exactly are you doing? Blogging on sites like these? What else? Just curious...

Oh, please. Of course I know they'll never give up willingly. That's why I've been involved with every demonstration, picketing the media and so on as well as involved with progressives of america and the Green Party.

But I know what it takes and I know the power of one.....or the power of millions in other words.

It is NOT crazy to think you can change the system, what's crazy is to think that you can't and to sit by and do nothing.

The point is, this will not be resolved until every american stands up and realizes they can change the system.

The PNAC organization is an enemy to all americans and until we get that and face them down like Cindy Sheehan, we will not change the system.

But I for sure will not wait, and I will continue to move forward until mass-positive changes ensue.

This man is a total wreck, and he's supposed to be the leader of this 'nation'.

http://www.nitrogen.no/files/pictures/drunkiebushie.jpg

We have more lies coming from the Pentagon every day and people coming home in bodybags.

One person can change everything, even negatively (think Osama..)but millions of people can change the whole world. If they really want to, and understand the consequences.

A very important website

nick

Even us folks here in the state of Alabama who are represented by cretins like Sen. Jeff Sessions are in touch with this issue! Please don't let the Republicans and George W. Bush get away with the biggest corrpution/scandal in our history. These guys are monsters who don't give a darn about we, the everyday citizen. We are not nearly as stupid as they wish us to be. I am so pissed at this government - I don't want revenge, I want justice and honesty. I want respect and response from my elected officials. This administration has been fomented in the deepest bowels of a humid snake infested Southern Alabama swamp - full of rot and evil! Let's gather my fellow Democrats and clean up this putrid mess!

Peace,
Alacrat / SouthernLitMan / Proud Democrat

Isn't it time to stop pointing fingers and just get down to the business of helping people. The mistakes were made. Let's not place blame for the sake of developing political capital.

Jeremy

The only way we can get down to the business of helping people is to make sure that we have an ethically and legally acceptable method of engaging in government contracts.

As for "developing political capital" some of us in here believe that those in power are absolutely corrupt in incapable of administering a large government program fairly. Look at what happened in Iraq. So, we do need to get the public's trust. This morning on NPR, Cokie Roberts was on and she said, "And, of course, the Democrats really don't have an agenda on this issue."

That is a nightmare. Our agenda is this: we need ethical leaders making decisions about how to assist those victims of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina. If we see ethical lapses, we will point them out and demand fair investigations. In the meantime, we will contribute to nonprofits on the ground that have worked extensively on emergency issues over the years.

A fellow democrat sent the following message to me but is not available to pursue his thoughts. I post it because I consider it a good idea that should be considered by the national committee. If anyone knows how to get some discussion on this please help. ---NJK

"I have a novel idea in which our party can score some points and also help a devastated area get on its feet. I think that New Orleans would be a great place to have the 2008 National Democratic convention.
1). Rebuilding will take years and just months. Having a convention there would pump billions into the local economy. Our being there could help them turn the corner.
2). This is in a traditionally Conservative voting state (Although if anyone has spent time in N.O. or Louisiana knows that there is absolutely nothing conventional about the way they elect people.) Right now they are angry with the incompetency of the Republicans and Bush in particular. By being there we might be able to at least make this state competitive thus force the Republicans to spend time and energy down there that they normally would not have to.
3). New Orleans (Although not at present) was about the funnest damn city in the whole USA!(I think it will be again.) Las Vegas is manufactured partying. New Orleans is a place where partying is in the DNA of the residents. If you spent anytime in the Big Easy it is like being character in a Fellini film. We could help the poor residents city economically, score some big political points and have a blast in the process.

What are your thoughts?" ---J.A.

Asking for honesty and accountability from our elected officials is not placing blame or pointing fingers, and "helping people" tied to "corruption at the highest levels of government" are two way different things that are connected by degree. The Federal Government could have helped many many more people if it was not so corrupt. By placing buddies and giving favors to friends and wringing money out of broken system for personal advantage is Corruption. It starts at the tail of the snake and winds its way to the big ol' ugly head.

Peace,

Alacrat

I am a registered Republican and have supported the party since the Reagan years. However my thinking is changing since recent events on George W. Bush's watch. September 11 2001 is five years old and nothing has been done to rebuild that area of lower Manhattan. The money is there but where is it going. Bush has unleashed this war on terror in Iraq. Yes the leader had to go but how do we justify being there now. We found the money to support this war but can't take care of home. Katrina devastated New Orleans. That city cannot be occupied for years. Now Rita hit and damaged an already damage city. The Bush adminstration failed in dealing with this domestic mess. I am having problems now supporting an adminstration that has failed overseas and at home. I went to the rally over the weekend to protest against the war. I am looking for an answer and an acknowledgement of responsibilty. I would hope that the parties would abandon their differences and come together on both these domestic issues of hurricane Kitrina and Rita and our international issues in Afganistan and Iraq.

Dream on Captian: God knows the thought from the deed, he knows what your intentions are even when you don't know yourself. You can't fool God, he is the final word. Sorry, you don't count only God is true and every man a lier? Man is the name of the human race!

What really needs investigation is 1) how we plan to pay for Katrina and other disasters and 2) how the money will be spent.
Moveon.org reports that over 100 Congressmen have a plan to cut more than a trillion from vital services including medicare and medicaid, Amtrak, PBS, etc. Now is the time for Dean and Reid to advocate a Democratic Plan which might include scaling back tax cuts for the rich, eliminating pork (bridge to nowhere), re-doing the medicare drug plan to allow megotiation, and preventing fraud in the rebuilding effort. We need also to ensure that the rebuilding money is spent wisely. For example, of the money now allocated for Mississippi, more than half goes to administration, with only 2 tenths of a percent to repairing the infrastructure.
Let's investigate ongoing events not just past failures. And I'd like to see the Democratic party out in front on these issues, and not have to rely on Moveon and other sources to keep me informed.

Now more than ever, it is time for the DNC to start doing something. By that I mean start being active and addressing the issues that are facing our nation. Stop bitching and moaning, start actively doing something. I, and many others, are actually starting to believe that we should just stop voting. It seems that the folks we have elected are just as much as useless as Dubya.

Perhaps they are just collecting a paycheck.

I sure am glad that our government is so focused on eletions in Iraq. It is so great to see that they have a larger voter turn-out than we do. Maybe the gop has actually rendered the DNC obsolete.

In the words of Mayor Nagin, "now get off your asses and do something"!

-Griff

Oneforall:

Al Qaida is alive and well in Iraq. This is the same organization that attacked us on 9-11. It is necessary to preemptively strike before we are hit again. It is also necessary that the Iraqi people have a stable government, one that allows them to police themselves. W's tact may come into question, but the actions are necessary. It's not hard to connect the dots here. Do you actually think we would be better off having done nothing? Democrats, although seemingly just in intention, continue to drag their feet and point fingers at everything. Never has this country been so polarized, which, as a patriotic American is sad. Even John Kerry acknowledged the necessity to be in Iraq; he just questioned the manner in which we went.

We are at war. There are people in this world that want us dead simply because of our ideals and religious differences. Seeing us continue to bicker as a country only fuels their hatred. If W is the criminal that he is suggested to be, wouldn't our fair system of checks and balances weed him out?

We need to be united as a country; as a people. We need to wake up and realize that the very air we breathe is in jeopardy. Democrats, as a whole, are quick to point out what is wrong, but are ont very forhcoming with any type of solution. (Other than George Bush is the Devil).

And as Donald Griffith observed, there needs to be a more positive message coming from the DNC. The current message is a tough sell to the public.

Captain,

You are right. We are at war. At war with our own values and our government, because its gotten too corrupt.

Sure we need to stop Al-Quaeda, by putting a stop to this ridiculous AIPAC shadow operation. Al-Quaeda is not in Iraq, at least we don't have conclusive evidence of anything Al-Quaeda related.

Shouldn't we have our own F.B.I actually investigate first, fly into these countries and determine if they are even there or not? This administration never did any such thing. They based all of their motives on CIA agents, discredited CIA agents. We need a full front investigation.

Wake up to what is around you, Tom Delay was just indicted and he will be convicted in the Abramoff scandal. Three men have been charged with the murder of Gus Boulis, Jack Abramoff has been convicted and the Senate is forcing the Pentagon to testify on Able Danger. David Safavian is in jail and Bill Frist is under investigation. Meanwhile the ringleader like Dick Cheney and Karl Rove are under attack for their final days.

To have law and order you must return law and order to the land.....first. IN addition to that, everyone should be focused on getting rid of other corruption like Nancy Pelosi with her being too cozy with lobbyists Abramoff and the whole scam.

We don't NEED crooked politicians, this is exactly what Mrs. Sibel Edmonds warned us about!!!!!! This is a DANGEROUS game we're playing and we need a full cleaning of the house, or our country can not function!!!

nick

Being poor means you’re not connected to one of the many internets.

Being poor means you can only get the networks through electronic snowstorms, and you never saw a Fox News anchor go ballistic on of the network’s oleaginous attack dog (that’s never explained his personal dead intern).

Being poor means you can’t express your intelligence and intuition and insight like River blogging from Baghdad.

Being poor means you probably never heard of the accused malfeasor Tom DeLay, like the professed amnesia of 45% of heartland Republican voters that claim the Hammer is a mystery to them now that he’s facing a criminal indictment and his bud Abramoff is a whisker, not seven removed from John Gotti and the Gambino family.

Being poor means you never had a shot at a job besides dishwashing on a Tunica riverboat.

Being poor means you never got that Christy Whiitman walking around cash from Ed Rollins, because, you know, y’all are shiftless.

Being poor means that you can look down on the whited sepulcher Babar Bush, even if you only cared about another person for a matter of seconds.

Being poor means you can feel sorry for Laura Bush and her hopeless Halcyon addiction when you’re only in shock and will recover.

Being poor means you never paid for cable TV so you haven’t been exposed to the most mind sucking shit in the history of human intelligence.

Being poor means you might have read a book in the darkness with a candle or a flashlight. I did and we weren’t poor. We were supposed to be sleeping. I had a right-angle BSA flashlight to foll the inspection.Everything in these ‘We Weren’t Poor clever scenarios that’s not technological is bullcrap.

If anybody doesn’t think poor kids don’t know about Tony Soprano, they’re being naïve or thinking wishfully. We were growing up in Little Rock and Memphis and our parents were pariahs because they thought black people are people. There was some pretty heroic stuff from my mom and dad in there. And some scary, like guys showing up to our house in Little Rock in overcoats and fedoras in July.

Being poor meant nobody ever counted your fucking vote, even when it went to a Republican SC that held state courts sacrosanct. I suppose that original intent of the little liar about his college experience flew right by. Everybody knew Scalia would go all weird and Rhenquist would lie his ass off.

These bastards don’t play. I’ll blow up their Urban Assault Vehicles.

You're all nuts. Republicans don't actuall give a shit in any concrete way. They sort of care. So do democrats. We all care. Are we not men?

If you're poor, you were deprived of the slightest news about what the fuck was dhappening.

Al Qaida is alive and well in Iraq. This is the same organization that attacked us on 9-11. It is necessary to preemptively strike before we are hit again. It is also necessary that the Iraqi people have a stable government, one that allows them to police themselves. W's tact may come into question, but the actions are necessary. It's not hard to connect the dots here. Do you actually think we would be better off having done nothing? Democrats, although seemingly just in intention, continue to drag their feet and point fingers at everything. Never has this country been so polarized, which, as a patriotic American is sad. Even John Kerry acknowledged the necessity to be in Iraq; he just questioned the manner in which we went.

We are at war. There are people in this world that want us dead simply because of our ideals and religious differences. Seeing us continue to bicker as a country only fuels their hatred. If W is the criminal that he is suggested to be, wouldn't our fair system of checks and balances weed him out?

We need to be united as a country; as a people. We need to wake up and realize that the very air we breathe is in jeopardy. Democrats, as a whole, are quick to point out what is wrong, but are ont very forhcoming with any type of solution. (Other than George Bush is the Devil).

And as Donald Griffith observed, there needs to be a more positive message coming from the DNC. The current message is a tough sell to the public.

Posted by Captain on September 27, 2005 at 09:55 PM

I'd suggest we're not at war. Everybody's disoriented. Don't be some idiot counterculture ahole.

If you're poor, the Republican Party is a closer worrry to your family than Al Quaida. And that is a stone fact. And Bush bullshit can attempt to argue with me but they wouldn't in a million years.

I don't think this if you're poorer is funny in the slightest. Well I suppose it is until you consider my overwhelming impulse to destroy republicans hideously. Blow up their heads, etc. The point is destroying the astoundingly noxious political party.

If we care about the country, we sure as shit don't need to have a bunch of scum'bag republicans fuck with us. It's time to make a stand girls. This is pure bullshit. This is wrong.

Captain:

Actually, if Bush really didn't know about everything his dirty brother was doing with Abramoff, than I see no reason but to admonish him and he should not be punished except being fined or a short prison sentence.

It is possible that Bush really did not know, as he's not alltogether 'there' in the head most of the time. The point of it all however, is to get Cheney out of there and the whole scam exposed, because they DID know.....and for sure DID plot this, and did allow 9/11.

However, if it turned out Bush did know and either knowingly WANTED it to happen or was too afraid to do anything to stop it, he should damn well be sent to the Hague. He may just be mentally sick. That's what it comes down too.

We aren't going to have that kind of accountability though without DEMANDING it, as evidenced by Cindy Sheehan.

The poor is a huge problem which many democrats have tried to solve for years, and many others have ignored completely. We finally have solutions coming out to fix this, rather than stress over "invisible enemies" like Al-Quaeda in different countries.

Al-Quaeda can be rounded up by NATO and sent to the Hague. This crap is just delusional, if we're going to fix the mistakes we start at home.

nick

michaelj, I agree with almost everything you said except: "we are not at war". Then what are our troops doing going to a foreign land and coming home dead?

-Griff

We ARE at war, with countries over our need for oil and petty bickering. But they don't call it a "war" just a "global struggle against violent extremism" quick name change there....

nick

The are two principle differences between a conservative outlook on the poor (hand up) and a liberal (hand out). Both have their pros and cons, but traditionally the conservative approach has faired better for the American people. Giving people a hand-out, with out expectation has flawed this country. Let me give an example:

In the early 1960's, under democratic legislation, housing was built for the under-privilged. The thinking was that with proper housing, the poorer sections would dust themselves off and begin to contribute to society, and generally better themselves. This was in Newark, New Jersey. It was a pilot project and hailed, by top democrats of the day, as being socially progressive, giving the less than a platform from which to better themselves. These houses were called 'projects'. And we all know where that led.

Comparatively, more people moved themselves up out of poverty in the 1980's under Reagan's conservative, and controversial, cutting of some welfare programs. At the time the left called him, "cold" and "unfeeling'. But his wisdom held up.

There are benifits and drawbacks of both approaches. To say that the GOP does not care about poor people is a reach. To say that the wealthiest Americans received the biggest tax cuts is also a distortion. These cuts were designed for the small business owner, to allow growth in the small business sector. And for the most part, growth has been a result of that. If some wealthy people are tax savvy and structure themselves so they can benifit for what was not intended for them, then the blame is on thier shoulders. Sure the system is imperfect and there are loop holes to be tighten up, but to say it favors the rich is unjust. A better way to say it is 'the wealthy have figured out how to work the tax cuts to thier advantage'.

Yes, we are at war. Yes oil is a factor, but it's not the sole factor here. People say it's about greed. It is not. It is about terrorism. We are corrupt at home, on both sides of the political spectrum. But the simple fact remains: If our ability to obtain foriegn oil diminishes, this country would find itself in a major depression.

Say what you will, but Republican principles have stood the test of time. Bush may not be the most popular president, in fact it's his unpopularity which makes us choose sides, but the ideals are just.

If Delay is guilty, then he should be punished. End of story. This does not shake the GOP. Corruption exists all over.

Oh, and the Losertarians will never win. When have the Green party ever gotten more than 1% of the popular vote? Thier ideas are simply too radical to be digested by the majority of the American people.

I remember how the Reagan administration helped the poor. I was going to vocational college at the time on the CETA program. The first thing Reagan did was kill the program. There were a lot of people there who got dumped before they got enough training to get decent jobs. I lucked out in a way. I didn't get my Associate's but I scraped together enough credits for a technical certificate and got a sort of decent job. Sort of because the country went into a recession and the outfit I worked for used that to leverage the union into accepting a less than cost-of-living increase in our wages each year so by the time I found a better job and quit them after 6 years, my wages were back to zilch. Oh, Yes! Glory hallaluah! Republicans are such sweet people.:-p That's why they're taxing the rich and putting this war, that they lied to start, on the backs of the poor and the fast tadin middle class. I'm soooo iimpressed.

OOPS! The last sentence should read: That's why they're giving TAX BREAKS to the rich and putting this was, that they lied to start, on the backs of the poor and the fast fading middle class. After all where do you think all those new found poor people are coming from. Not from the uber rich, that's for sure.

No doubt there was some fallout due to Republican policies. But from 1980 to 1990 there were less impoverished peolpe per capita than any other decade. (Source: US census. )

Unemployment, has across the board, been less under Republican leadership. Democrats scoff at the idea of capitalism, but it's such thinking that puts food on the table. In all classes. Welfare reform has lowered unemployment. This is fact.

Do you think we should offer more handouts to the lower classes? Right now they're enjoying lower taxes than they ever had. Should this be stopped and redistributed as welfare?

Some fallout? We had a large number of lay offs in all local businesses, and a major business in the area go under during that period. Democrats don't scoff at capitalism, what they are supporting is social responsibility. The problem is that too many business are using a parasitical business model, where they want all the money and don't want to support the infrastructure they use, or accept any responsibility for the poverty they create when they ship our jobs overseas. By the way, what lower taxes for the working poor? They are paying less taxes because their hourly pay and benefits have eroded as have the number of full time jobs. The true welfare queens are these companies who demand concessions from the governments where they locate their businesses and then lobby Washington for undeserved tax breaks. If the rich had been paying their fair share, the governemnt would have the money for infrasturcture rpairs, and for better equipment for our military than we have now. Corporations need to accept their responsibility to maintain the infrastructure they use, and to pay their employees living wages, instead of paying company executives many more times their actual worth.

Butte,

16 Democratic Senators voted for Bush's tax cuts. Can you explain?

There have been over 46 consecutive months of economic expansion since Bush's tax cuts passed. Can you explain?

The Democratic Party has said social security has dramatically improved since Bush took office in 2000. Can you explain?

I can't wait for these answers...

Haen't you been reading posts on other topics? One of the continuing problems with the Democrat Party is the lack of loyalty that a lot of Democrat legislators have to their constituents. This plus the lack of backbone in the party to tell jerks that they are being unethical and betraying their costituents by pandering to the money interests, instead of looking out for the working people who are the true base of the Democrat Party. This is why third parties are becoming more popular among the disenchanted, even though no third party had a snowball's chance of winning a presidential election. The core constituency needs to take back the Democrat Party and tell the Republican-lites, to either clean up their acts or stop calling themselves Democrats. And no, I'm not voting for "Montana Max" next time.

Butte,

Your last post is exactly what lights most of us GOPers up. This bs that the "working people" are your base is fraudulent. Its offensive.

You are engaging in class warfare. That doesn't work any more.

Look no further than your Democratic Vice Presidential nominee. Edwards used a tax loophole to deny Medicare in over $600,000 in taxes. (He filed a sub-S tax return on the $26 million jury verdict he was awarded. A sub-S doesn't have to pay Medicare taxes).

Whether you want to accept it or not: EVERY politician panders to special interests. Its been that way forever. But the Democrats like to accuse the GOP of it, but you and I both know everyone does it.

Howard Dean says he hates the Republicans and everything they stand for...He also says the GOP is "evil". If that is what the Democratic Party has been reduced to, you can expect to never win another election.

Unemployment has only inflated across the board under any kind of conservative leadership.

Conservative has translated into "Reactionary" and "Unsustainable"

We now have more than enough easy terms to apply to this.

Terms of the new world, "Fiscal Responsibility"= "Sustainable Energy"

We don't need to rely anymore on OIL barons, which is the only reason the DLC has tried to take control of the party. Because they RELY on OIL, and that's going to change very quickly.....We're going to have to MOVE ON now, and face the "Global Warming Crisis" and the facts.

We represent the working class and NOT all the special interests of the DLC. That's what Howard Dean is out to prove and now we've proven it in more ways than one, by raising basically all our funds in every state through citizens.

We have no more problems other than to energize the base. Thats going to be done by getting into a NEW mindset; a mindset of "Sustainable Energy" because the future of Fuel is now. The Future is Now, lets move forward and sieze it.

Already Priveledged isn't helping the rest of america, because we have a War Tax

Fiscal policy means fiscal energy.

Lets make solutions, not wars.

"Hybrid Fuels are the solution."

Seize the moment, tackle "Culture of Corruption."

The corporate media is making problems, not solutions.

Lets listen to the common man, not the already priveledged.

"Time to move forward, not onward."

"Digital Rent Management serves no-one."

"Military Spending is not Defense Spending."

"We want a strong defense, not a wasted defense."

"Conserve energy, don't waste it."

"We are Pro-Privacy, not Pro-Choice."

"The Christianist right isn't right, its reactionary."

"Its time for Public policy through solutions."

"Being fiscal libertine means using Sustainable Energy"

"We need to recapture our spending from the Already Priveledged."

"We face a Budget Crisis, not a Security Crisis."

"Big problems call for big solutions, not more Pyramids."

"Corporate society talks big but offers no solutions."

"We have solutions in Sustainable Energy"

The future is now, lets start with our fuel.

nick

Dash, your comments are right to the point. We ARE enjoying economic expansion right now- saying anything less would be untrue. Republican ideals are what move this country forward. Corruption will always exist, this has been said and proven many times.

No doubt we should engage more in exploring alternative energies. But by no means should this be a partisan issue- this effects all of us, and we would be remiss to continue to bicker while our options run out. I agree with you here Nick (although I'm sure that means little here...) But what are we doing besides talk?

Captain: That's where Governor Dean comes in.

We're changing the whole thing from the bottom up and putting organizers into every single state, going for secretary of state in every single state and then the democracy bonds program too.

If we let the PNAC aka AIPAC thing explode by itself, and work hard to organize each and every state on the ground.....We'll get progressives elected into every office, just like Paul Hackett. Just like Michael Bandarik, John Courage, and others.

Even Ben Affleck is considering running and I say more power to him, it would be a good thing. He's got some great motivations and could definitely win if the grassroots are there.

nick

It's amazing to me how stupid people are? We are not in the majority in any branch of Government? You watch us turn this Nation around like Clinton did as soon as we get in the majority in any Branch of Government? We will do as well even under a handicap of having the Republicans in the majority in one or more branches! But......... We have to get the majority before we can do anything but gripe! I get so tired of saying this over and over and still some people blast the Democrats for not exposing their plans and with no power unable to act on any crimes of the Republicans.

It's interesting that every time you start pointing out facts about working poor and social responsibilities, the Rebublicans start saying that "class" is an old ploy that doesn't work any more. It is interesting because they resist admitting that their policies only help the richest 2 or 3% while the rest of us are not getting helped by their policies. The corporations in the US are getting richer. The working people aren't. They are getting lower wages when their jobs aren't being shipped overseas. I know too many white people who have been shafted by this economy to say it's race based. The race card is being used, along with single-issue voting issues such as abortion and homosexual marriage, against the working poor to con white workers into voting against their own best interests. I've had to many working poor Republican voters start prating about the "black welfare mothers" myth when they aren't any better off than their black and hispanic counter-parts. It is a class thing, this is the 400lb gorilla in the living room, it's real and it's getting bigger. Before Katrina we added 1.1 million poor to this "booming" economy and the median wage keeps dropping. In the mean time, since states base their taxes on Federal taxes, they are getting less and less money to maintain services and infrastructures that the rich as well as the poor use. Heck, the rich use these infrastructures more, because they use them for their corporations as well as personal use. All I'm saying is that government needs to control corporations because the greedy abuse privilege, and we can not maintain a first world nation by catering to the parasitical business model. There are responsible business models where businesses are good citizens. These businesses need to be supported. The ones who aren't need to be controlled. We are all in this planet together.

I live in the south and can genuinely agree with the frustration with the democratic party's lack of a position. it's what won bush the election. the fact that they used the word "liberal" and they said that kerry never really stood for one issue. I'm not sure if the conservatives down here are ready to accept the fact that bush is incompetent. they love his christian values, his hunting, fishing, and golfing deal. to them, he's a true conservative southerner. however, i can tell you that having someone as blatantly "liberal" as hillary clinton for a candidate will completely screw up what the south has been slowly changing to its centrist idea. we need a moderate....no deans, no kennedys, no kerrys. we need someone who they feel comfortable with but still will hold the views of the democratic party. that is the way to get rural votes...we need to find a moderate preferrably someone who can be related to by southerners...an edwards possibly. we need to find someone that doesn't just come out of the woodwork like kerry. someone who will be able to be relatable both to the vastly liberal urbanians and the centrist rural voters. this way a democrat will likely be elected but the incompetency of this administration will be a big UPHILL battle.
Thanks, Jen