So what? Dems won't do anything about it. Have you heard a peep from them about it?

Dumbya wants to now make religious schools paid for by taxpayer dollars and not a peep from democrats. NOT JUST faith based charity work, but to now pay for teachers in private religious schools. NOT A WORD from democrats.

Dumbya wants to cut MILITARY health and education benefits for the families of the military, and not a peep from democrats.

Dumbya was cutting military spending on suitable armor for the troops while making sure Halliburton gets all the billions it can waste and can ANYONE point to a single positive thing Halliburton has done in Iraq? JUST ONE?

Dumbya wants to maintain the BILLIONS in corporate welfare but wants to cut more welfare benefits for the poor.

Dumbya wants to cut medicare help for the poor, disabled, and elderly but refuses to get rid of the tax cuts for the wealthy.

NOT a peep from the democrats.

WHEN are our elected democrats going to unite to rid of us of these rethugs who are taking this country down the road to ruin and destruction?

I just can't understand why democrats are so terrified of rethugs.

And why,l knowing full well they are voting AGAINST THE BEST INTERESTS OF THEIR CONSITUENTS THEY CONTINUE TO DO SO?

How many of them are voting to confirm a man they KNOW will take the U.S.A. back a hundred years? ONE is too many.

You know what a moderate democrat is?

A republican.

OH and this little GEM!

Dumbya, know full well that Saudi Arabia traffics in Child prostitutes and child labor, and violates all human rights we know about is giving Saudi Arabia a pass:

WASHINGTON - President Bush decided Wednesday to waive any financial sanctions on Saudi Arabia, Washington's closest Arab ally in the war on terrorism, for failing to do enough to stop the modern-day slave trade in prostitutes, child sex workers and forced laborers.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050922/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_human_trafficking_1

Ok, this really has nothing to do with today's topic, but I just watched W speak to reporters-it was carried by CNN and apparently Karl didn't do a good enough job prepping him because he actually used the word "inventorying" Yes ladies and gentlemen he is inventorying the damage in Louisiana. That is your president! He shouldn't even open his mouth! He makes Dan Quayle look like a genius!

Buzz,

What's the matter, you can't get the rest of your party to join in your irrational hatred?

You're hilarious.

I beg to differ, quite a few or more - Republicans and their attainable lobbyists are coming under investigations and indictments by the Federal Prosecutors lately.

If we can't get our hands on Bush's supposedly "squeaky clean image" - Then go after the Republican Party!

Republicans were nothing like this until Karl Rove came along with his strategy; giving them the impression that they are "untouchable".

Well, until we can get the media to avert from their tepid lopped-sidded reporting of this political party. I look forwarded to comments such as this from the DNC blog (funny, couldn't find it in a newspaper article)

By the way although it is a scandalous newspaper the National Enquirer got a story about

Bush back on the Booze.....

I thought it quit funny and a bit true!!

WH2008,

Ummm, I hate to tell you, but "inventorying" is a word. It has the definition "to catalog".

You folks don't get it. Your party doesn't have a message, so your only game-plan is to criticize Bush's vocabulary. Classic.

I can assume another GOP gain in the House & Senate in '06 since all you have is the "Grammar Police"

Thanks.

To Whom It May Concern:

You better give Frist your best shot. You're gonna need it.

If Martha can go to jail for doing this, why not Frist? Who is the Attorney General in the state where he sold the stock? If a democrat, I challenge her/him to indict this hypocrite.
It's ok to "doctor" your portfolio if you KNOW you are going to lose money?

No one's really surprised about this, are they? Of course, Frist dumped the stock before it took a dive -- you don't expect the wealthy to lose their wealth -- they're too wired and too connected to let anyting like that happen. Only the middle class takes a bath in the stock market! The Republican spin machine is probably ready with ammo if anyone should try to make an issue of this -- but, of course, it won't get three lines in the media. Nothing ever changes...

SandyH,

In America, you are innocent until proven guilty. But being a rabid Bush Hater, you wouldn't acknowledge that.

However, Howard Dean said Osama bin Laden was innocent until proven guilty.

Do you find it strange that the head of the DNC would honor the rights of a terrorist who killed thousands of Americans over a duly elected US Senator?

That was a rhetorical question...I know how you are.

Maureen,

First, you gotta get some evidence that Frist knew it would "dive"....It only fell 9%...hardly a "dive".

Good luck.

First is going to show everybody why power keeps crooks out of jail.When you put the judges you want in office and you put the people you want in Securities and Exchange, and also Justice Dept, who is left to bring charges. He could commit murder in front of ten witnesses and would never be charged. Remember the head of Enron,Ken Lay, Bush's long-time friend, never been charged with anything. Others have been jailed that did the same thing but he has never be charged. To these guys, power makes crime legitimate.It is as simple as that. They have no morals just what they can get away with.

Only fools and Republicans make excuses for those that abuse their power.

the majority of our government is corrupt..and should be jailed,,it starts at local, and goes all the way to the white house..i just seen where a emergency management superviser, has been caught stealing truck load of relief supplies ..i would be willing to bet..a large amount of money and supplies,will be stole by local law enforcement,,all their houses should be searched..sending money, to charities may make you feel good..but spend your money wisely..and you can help people, who really need help..not pay 150,000 a year salaries,,most charities pay thier leaders..these displaced americans need help...the so called charities are not the answer

Wow, when Rove gets hospitalized for a week, man the trolls just don't know what to do.

Fact is if it looks like insider trading, and sounds like insider trading, then it's a good thing that he's the Senate Majority leader and W and Albie Gonzalez will give him a get out of jail free card.

Hey Dash, Go screw yourself. OH never mind you already have. You're a retarded rethuglican.

So go away and go have a circle jerk over at the RNC blog. Oh that won't work either will it? You need something to grab to have a CJ.

That's what I like about when Rethug trolls come over here. It's makes them so easy to spot with their total lack of intelligence and ability to grasp that the moron in chief they support is leading this country right down the tubes to a one party rule with the Christian Taliban as it's enforcment arm.

How does it feel to be so stupid as to support a man (and I use the term very loosely) who has destroyed this country's integrity around the world?

Who has turned A NON TERRORIST state(Iraq) INTO a terrorist training ground and recruitment center?

Who has given more tax breaks to the wealthiest 5 percent of America while burdening the middle class and the next 4 generations with paying off his moronic tax debt?

Who has given companies TAX BREAKS for shipping jobs overseas? Who has gutted almost every single environmental law in America?

Who has hired as his cabinet almost exclusively members of The Oil Companies, The Timber Companies,The Mining Companies and the Drug Companies(And let's not forget hiring a horse show judge to run FEMA)

Who has just given the Oil Industry a THIRTEEN BILLION dollar tax break at the same time they are making more money than they can spend?

Who thinks letting The Christian Taliban run America is a good thing?

Who thinks something as STUPID as (UN)intelligent design be taught AS SCIENCE?

Who thinks giving taxpayer money to churches to indoctrinate kids into becoming blank minded morons who follow in jackbooted lockstep with whatever the Bible says?

Who lets the companies government is SUPPOSED to be regulating, write the laws governing those same companies?

Who has the most secretive government in U.S. history?

Who REFUSES to ever testify under oath? AND won't do it unless Unca Dick is holding his hand?

Who was busy playing the guitar while people were drowning?

Yeah sure, you got something to be proud of. A moron in chief. So tell us the truth BrainsDASHed against a rock....how much do you get paid to come over here and act like an idiot?

And you're right I do hate Dumbya and all his policies. Irrational? No, because I fear for my country's future unlike total idiots like you who can't see past the glass of red koolaid they are drinking.

You're an idiot. GO away, there are adults here who are trying to get our leaders to take back America from those who would turn it into a wholly owned corporate subsidy of Halliburton and Bechtel and lead it back into an actual democracy. So go back to your little circle jerk at the RNC and tell them you want a raise.

As a former stockbroker, I can tell you that if I did what Frist did, I would lose my house and go to jail for a long time.

But, Frist and Dubya have gotten away with it, just like so many other insiders do. The stock market is rigged, always has been, so be careful where you put your investment money. Even now, the U.S. government is artifically propping up the DOW.

Stagflation is making a comeback, Put your money in precious metals, real estate and anything to do with renewable energy and energy efficiency technology. Oh, and don't forget hurricane proof buildings.

Yeah, what Buzz said at 3:24 PM.

Posted by Alf on September 22, 2005 at 04:53 PM

-----------------------------

Alf, you talk just like a Republican complete with the hateful and juvenile "nutcake" namecalling, so I will assume you are a Republican.

Buzz is 100% right and you are 100% wrong!!!

We cannot beat the Rethugs by being Republican light.

Stop reading MSM propaganda sanitized and approved by Karl Rover, and stop repeating the traitor's talking points BS.

Posted by americanpatriot on September 22, 2005 at 04:58 PM

-------------------------------

Here's another Republican who cannot argue without namecalling. Pretty pathetic.

But what can we expect from someone who believes in Intelligent Design, a faith based superstition from fantasyland and with no basis in science and logic.

Science, logic, mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc. are all God's universal laws. Believers in Intelligent Design are committing blasphemy. May they enjoy eternity in hell.

Posted by americanpatriot on September 22, 2005 at 05:01 PM
-----------------------------------------

Since ad hominem boy posted twice, I will comment twice.

True, Saddam was a terrorist in his own country, but he was a friend of Rumpsfelt, a terrorist and Dick Cheney, a terrorist and a thief.

Dubya is also a terrorist, committing state sponsored terrorism against Iraq.

He lied to start a bogus war, just so he and Cheney could steal Iraqi oil revenues and U.S. tax dollars through Halliburton's no bid contracts that overcharge and underperform.

The latest Halliburton crime is they were caught serving tainted, polluted water to our soldiers in Iraq. This is not to be confused with serving tainted polluted food to our soldiers, which they also did.

How disgusting that anyone would actually support Bush/Cheney after all these two traitorous criminals have done to the people of the U.S. and the world.

Hopefully I will never be near you when you tell God that His creation plan was a foolish superstition!

Posted by SadAmerican on September 22, 2005 at 07:11 PM

-----------------------------------

Must be another typical Republican. When faced with an argument they can't win, they resort to name calling, violence and in this case, veiled threats. So sad, so immoral and in violation of God's laws.

The key word used by bullyboy above is "believe". Science does not "believe" in evolution, science has proven evolution to be fact. Knowledge, and not belief, rules and rules correctly, no matter how big the bully's fists are.

It is evident in his posts that his brain was AWOL from most of his science classes in school. How he could believe dogmatic, superstitious religous fanatics over all the scientists in the world about a matter of science is beyond me and shows his lack of logic in his decision making abilities.

I am not going to get into why evolution is an undeniable fact and not just an unproven theory, he needs to look it up himself. He should do some research on his own. Start here:

The Short Proof of Evolution
http://www.mala.bc.ca/~johnstoi/essays/courtenay1.htm

Science, logic, mathematics, physics, etc. are all God's laws. Would anyone deny that 1+1=2? If you do, you doubt reality. The beauty of God's laws is that they are consistent throughout the universe and are what holds the universe together, thanks be to God.

If there is an "Intelligent Design" then Science plus the big bang, is it. ID is not God micromanaging the development of life on earth through divine intervention. To do so would deny us of free will.

God created the universe along with all of the laws of science and allowed life to develop over billions of years on its own throughout the universe on billions of planets. To claim the earth is only thousands of years old is to limit God's greatness and to commit blasphemy.

We are given our free will by God so we can decide for ourselves to do right or wrong, and to survive or not survive as a species, unencumbered by God's Pinochio strings. What else do you want from your creator?

by the way frist is from tn..yes we got a democrat governor...untill election..its a well know fact he wont be reelected...he is the most hated governor ever in tn..by democrats,,and rep.he is wrecking our state..if he runs again it will be my first time to vote rep. ..democrats need to know this is a rep. who ran as a democrat..he is worser than bush..he took all the money from medical care and put it in programs,,where him and his buddys could steal it..he has done every thing to benefit the rich,,while stealing from the poor..when the georgia governor suspended gas tax.. our represenatives asked him to..he said no way...common sense tells me he is making money off the road building...when he was elected that was one issue..he said he would cut the DOT but instead he is funneling all the state money into it...and building rds the people dont even want..i believe he is the most dishonest governor tn has ever had.

frist is in congress,,,bredesen is the governor..and the attorney general is a democrat

Frist should at least be investigated for insider trading by the SEC. But when Bush pulled the same trick, his father was in office and the SEC investigator was Bush's lawyer. There is a file on Bush with the SEC but it's sealed. Just like everything else,nothing is to be disclosed to the American people. It's not really a democracy if the government is not transparent.

You must remember that the only 'color' that the Republican's recognize is the color of green. The Republican's only want the white folk to have the money, but not all the white folks. Only the already rich white folks. This lack of ethics on Frist's part is just his following the party line. Strictly standard operating procedure.

Dash/Dijhili:

"You better give Frist your best shot. You're gonna need it."

Right.

And hurry up before Bush drinks it. Evidently he really needs it to pull through a crisis.

Wow, Sad American, you really have a problem focusing on the issue, which is Frist is should be going to jail for insider stock trading.

And your bible study hour misses one special little point. It wasn't until the end of the 19th century that people began using a literalist interpretation of the Good Book.
If you haven't ever noticed Jesus teaches in Parables; as did most Rabbis of that time. Parables are little made up stories. And its likely (taking the Christian view) that when God was speaking with Moses, he left out a great many mysteries of the Universe including Physics, Electricity/Magnetism, Chemistry, Gravity, Atomic & sub Atomic physics, and Biology. And all of these were theories, some for centuries until they were proven to be Laws of nature; and So far ID has done no science, no theory, only a hypothesis.

And every religion has a creation story, not just the Bible; I wish the trolls would study things before claiming they have the only truth. In fact I've lived much of my life within 30 miles of the site of creation of the earth, and man and all the animals on itaccording to the Pima/Papago tribal tradition.

Where does the idea of God as a creator come from? Only the Holy Bible refers to the God of heaven and earth as the Almighty Creator who set all life into motion.

Funny thing Americantraitor or would Americanidiot be more your style? Same with Alien Life Form,(somehow very fitting for a rethug troll) and SadAmerican(how apropos)

Lessee here, cuz I know you red koolaid drinkers are so drunk with your own arrogance and idiocy. Armstrong Williams-PAID GOP SHILL, JEFF GANNON (GAY MALE ESCORT, and a host of others who were paid to blog and pretend to be independent writers and in fact one can usually smell a paid repug Troll several miles away. They are incapable of doing anything but parroting the GOP talking points. WHILE at least the PAID trolls such as I am sure one or two of you, KNOW you have sold your souls for a few pieces of silver.

AND as far as God is concerned. HE knows the truth about evolution. HE CREATED IT. None of this sheer idiocy of ID/Creationism crap which is just another way of trying to sneak the Christian Taliban into schools. Funny thing too asshollahs of the GOP...You can't answer a single statement can you?

Typical reichwing trolls AND I wouldn't be harping too much on being a weiner(Whoops I mean whiner...whoops I meant winner) Seems like your party's numbers are tanking pretty heavily. So enjoy your moment in the muck. You'll have at least something to show for helping to sell America down the river for a few corporate pieces of silver.

You people are pathetic beyond all normal reason. Now go back to your little circle jerkoff at the RNC. OH I forgot you don't get PAID for that do you? Not that there is anything to jerk anyway, you dickless wonders.

No go away, adults are trying to discuss matters that are important to every American's future, not just corporations future and taking America backwards a hundred years like you repug trolls and your leasholders are tying to do.

Pretty interesting and coincidental that Bush planned this Rita hurricane just as Frist was getting into trouble, knocking Frist off of the front pages.
Does anyone else see this weather making power as scary?

Our Washington Democrats have been given every oportunity to slam the Republican party almost daily and they don't.They are either afraid of them or the strategy is to set back,do nothing and hope Bush will self destruct. Neither one is acceptable to Americans.We either condemn the actions of people like First, even though he is a collegue,or we are nothing and voters, especially independents, won't come over to us. If we are afraid, who needs us? If we won't speak up for our citizens every day, who needs us? Washington polititians have lost touch with ordinary Americans and seem to be only involved in internal battles and power. Who needs that?
As much as I hate Newt Gengrich, if he were there as a Democrat right now,it would be the Gingrich show every day, I guarantee.

From the Washington Post.

Quote;

Tyco Exec: Abramoff Claimed Ties to Administration

By R. Jeffrey Smith
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, September 23, 2005; Page A06

Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff bragged two years ago that he was in contact with White House political aide Karl Rove on behalf of a large, Bermuda-based corporation that wanted to avoid incurring some taxes and continue receiving federal contracts, according to a written statement by President Bush's nominee to be deputy attorney general.

Timothy E. Flanigan, general counsel for conglomerate Tyco International Ltd., said in a statement to the Senate Judiciary Committee last week that Abramoff's lobbying firm initially boasted that Abramoff could help Tyco fend off a special liability tax because he "had good relationships with members of Congress," including House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.).

Abramoff later said "he had contact with Mr. Karl Rove" about the issue, according to the statement by Flanigan, who oversaw Tyco's dealings with Abramoff and his firm and received reports from Abramoff about progress in the lobbying campaign. Flanigan's statement is the latest indication that Abramoff promoted himself as having ready access to senior officials in the Bush administration.

A White House spokeswoman, Erin Healy, said Rove "has no recollection" of being contacted by Abramoff about Tyco's concerns.

Abramoff was indicted last month on unrelated wire fraud and conspiracy charges and has lost his high-stakes lobbying clients. He was hired in 2003 by Tyco when the company was in turmoil. Abramoff's firm, Greenberg Traurig, promoted him as Tyco's savior on the tax issue, according to Flanigan's statement and others familiar with the process.

Tyco -- whose executive L. Dennis Kozlowski had just departed under an ethics cloud -- was worried that the Bush administration might embrace legislation promoted by Democrats that would impose higher taxes on domestic-centered companies that had moved offshore to cut their tax bills. The legislation was motivated by popular anger over such offshore moves, and carried the additional penalty of barring such firms from receiving federal contracts.

Lobbying disclosure statements filed by Abramoff listing his work for Tyco cite the "Executive Office of the President" as one of his lobbying targets on the tax and contracts issues. Others were the Department of Commerce, the General Services Administration and Congress. Greenberg Traurig records submitted to Tyco describe specific contacts with the White House legislative office, a source familiar with the matter said yesterday.

Rove's personal assistant at the time, Susan Ralston, formerly worked as Abramoff's secretary. It could not be learned yesterday whether she was among those contacted by any of the 14-person Greenberg team recorded as working on the Tyco account.

The Bush administration was never enthusiastic about the tax penalty, but both the House and Senate approved language in 2002 denying federal contracts to companies largely based in the United States but incorporated in tax havens.

Tyco was among a raft of companies, including Ingersoll-Rand and Noble Corp., that hired an army of lobbyists to stall the legislation and ultimately kill most of it. House Republican leaders argued that corporate flight was merely a symptom of a much broader problem with the U.S. tax code that should be treated in a larger tax reform package.

Abramoff remains the focus of a lengthy investigation by a task force led by prosecutors at the Justice Department and including investigators at the Internal Revenue Service, the Interior Department and General Services Administration. The probe was initially focused on whether he bilked Native American tribes that paid him tens of millions of dollars in lobbying and other fees, but has since widened to include other matters.

Flanigan, who is still at Tyco while awaiting a committee vote on his nomination, said in his Sept. 15 written statement that he would "consult with DOJ ethics officials . . . and apply normal recusal standards" about the Justice Department's investigation of Abramoff.

Flanigan said he would recuse himself from any Abramoff investigation involving Tyco. Portions of his statement were first reported in the Los Angeles Times.

The ties between Tyco and Greenberg Traurig have already been investigated by a special counsel appointed by Greenberg to examine Abramoff's activities at the firm. According to knowledgeable sources and Flanigan's written statement, Greenberg has promised to repay three-quarters of a $2 million fee that Tyco paid, at Abramoff's direction, to a firm called Grassroots Interactive.

The fee was supposed to finance a letter-writing campaign by Tyco suppliers against the offshore tax bill, but Greenberg concluded that $1.5 million of it was "diverted to entities controlled by Mr. Abramoff" and misspent, according to Flanigan's statement.

Andrew Blum, a spokesman for Abramoff's law firm, declined to comment, as did Jill Perry, a spokeswoman for Greenberg Traurig.

End Quote.

What do ya think?

From the Washington Post.

Quote;

At Final Day of Roberts Hearings, Hatch Snaps . . . and Snaps

By Dana Milbank

Friday, September 23, 2005; Page A04

It started around the time Sen. Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.) observed that the "hearings were dignified." Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) whipped out his camera phone and snapped a photo of Leahy.

Thus began Orrin's Excellent Adventure yesterday at the Senate Judiciary Committee. As the panel voted to endorse John G. Roberts Jr.'s nomination to be chief justice, the fifth-term senator composed a digital photo album.

Sen. Charles E. Grassley (R-Iowa) complained about Democrats' "loyalty to their ideological and single-interest groups." Hatch took a picture.

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) asked if Roberts would "lead us on the path of continued equality." Hatch snapped a photo.

Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. (D-Del.) announced that he had "serious doubts" about Roberts. Hatch pointed and shot.

Sen. Mike DeWine (R-Ohio) countered that Roberts "bears no ill will." Hatch closed his right eye to line up the picture.

This photojournalism evidently inspired Biden, who took out his own camera phone and shot a candid of Leahy and Chairman Arlen Specter (R-Pa.).

In defense of the touristy tendencies of the two senators, the hearing was not exactly suspenseful. DeWine spent much of the hearing with his eyes closed; Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.), judging by his yawns, seemed to be only one cup of coffee ahead of DeWine.

Indeed, the only question yesterday was not whether Roberts would be recommended to the full Senate, but whether any Democrats would vote for him (three of the eight, as it turns out).

For a while, it seemed lonely for Leahy, who announced his support for Roberts on Wednesday, the only Democrat on the committee to do so before the hearing. This managed to get him a drubbing from the left wing ("inexplicable," howled People for the American Way) but no thanks from the right wing ("cynical posturing," said a press release distributed at the hearing by the Traditional Values Coalition).

Leahy did not smile when Specter hailed his yes vote as "courageous." As Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) announced her opposition to Roberts, the man from Vermont, rested his face in his hand. When Kennedy railed against the nominee, Leahy adjusted his tie and inspected the back of his hand. When Biden added his dissent, Leahy busied himself with his BlackBerry. And when Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) delivered an anti-Roberts diatribe, Leahy looked at Roberts's handler, former senator Fred Thompson, and raised his eyebrows. Thompson smiled sympathetically.

But in the end, Leahy was joined by two other pro-Roberts Democrats, Wisconsin's Herb Kohl and Russell Feingold. And the committee took on a different hue, divided less by party than by temperament: the amiable against the belligerent.

The committee's two partisan bookends, Schumer and Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.), were in a grudge match. The New York Democrat, speaking of Republicans, condemned "extreme groups and individuals."

Cornyn fired back that Democrats were spouting "the exact opposite of the truth" and argued that Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg supported legal "prostitution and polygamy, and she opposed Mother's and Father's days as discriminatory occasions."

Even after three committee Democrats endorsed Roberts, Cornyn railed that "the days of bipartisanship when it comes to supporting judicial nominees to the Supreme Court -- sadly, I believe they appear to be over."

The normally genial Grassley briefly joined the partisans. "I would like to speak to just Republican members of the committee at this particular time and not the Democratic members," he announced.

"Should we stop listening?" Leahy asked.

"Yes, you can stop listening," Grassley said.

Graham tried to provide a counterpoint to the bitterness. He urged his fellow senators not to question the motives of their opponents, and he called on President Bush to name a second nominee "who loves the law more than they love politics."

"Liberals and conservatives come and go, but the rule of law is bigger than all of our philosophies," Graham said.

Sen. Sam Brownback, who skipped most of the hearing, didn't agree with that bit about law trumping philosophy. The Kansas Republican arrived at the hearing room with a 14-year-old girl suffering from Down syndrome and, as the smiling girl stood behind him, made an impassioned anti-abortion argument. We "celebrate her," Brownback said, "and yet in the womb, 80 percent are killed."

Hatch began reaching into his pocket. But he apparently reconsidered and did not pull out his camera phone. This moment would not be recorded as part of Hatch's Excellent Adventure.

End Quote.

Now you tell me what Hatch is up to?

ok now I am starting to get ticked off.

There is a historic event taking place in DC this weekend. Unfortunately, just about every democrat has Cheney-esque "other priorities".

It really upset me that included in the list of democrats who don't recognize the magnitude of this important event is Howard Dean. Howard please, reconsider. We really need you this weekend.

This is a stunning lack of leadership.

Not only is Iraq a mess, but the whole damn country is a mess.

During the beginning of the chimps reign, early 2001, the Army Corp of Engineers estimated that the country needed about $1.1 TRILLION, with a T!!!, in infrastructure repairs (things like, oh, I don't know, levies maybe?).

The chimp decided to push 1.6 TRILLION in tax cuts. He had lots of democratic help. The got him "down" to 1.3 Trillion. I am sure they were really proud of their fiscal responsibility, patting each other on the back in the Limo on the way to the Georgetown cocktail lounge.

More from the wayback machine.

In Feb 2001, Colin Powell said during a meeting with the Egyptian Foreign Minister that “they [the sanctions] have worked. He [Sadaam Hussein] has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.”

Bush decided to invade Iraq. Lots of democrats went along. This list of enablers included democrats that consistently have the national stage, Hillary, John Kerry, John Edwards, Joe Liberman, Joe Biden,

My question is this; What exactly do democrats have to lose by supporting the patriots in DC this weekend?

I'm sorry, but I am starting to develop a deeper resentment for the spinelessness that is our party right now than I have for the thugs in chimp's group.

PLEASE, PLEASE, Stand up!!! Now that the truth has come out, America is ready.

LEAD, dammit!!!!

And now the SEC has even contacted Frist's office about his insider trading. Of course he won't tell us how much of HCA's stock he sold, but his family is worth 1.1 billion according to Forbes.

Does it seem strange to anyone that Republicans somehow can't seem to be able to stop themselves when it comes to making an extra buck, even if it's flat out illegal?

Buzz,
If you are really interested in one positive thing that Halliburton has done in Iraq. You might ask some of their shareholders. I’m sure that right about now, their happy as clams…

I think Hatch was preserving a Ben Quick "moment of his life." Brownback's pimping for the anti-abortion crowd was lost on Hatch...he should have taken that picture for posterity...using a mentatally-challenge child as a prop is even more bizzare than anything Faulkner could have ever come up with.

The lynnatics are fully in charge of the Beltway assylum...while the country is in full panic mode in Texas and Louisiana. Imagine what will happen if a major earthquake hits the West Coast or the Mississippi Valley in the next few weeks? The Republican wingnuts will probably bring in a group of black Evalgelicals to perform gospel music while they confirm Gonzales for O'Connor's vacant seat.

I can hear Bin Lauden laughing in the distance...probably vacationing at his villa on the Mediterrarian while our southern shores errode into the Gulf abyss. The decline and fall of Western civilization is out in the open for all to see. From Bush's Rod Sterling performance at Jackson Square to Brownback's theatrics in the halls of Congress, it's obvious that we are doomed as a society. We have gone over the deep end.

Be sure to vote Republican in '06 if you want to see how it all ends.

has it ever occured to any one how bill frist republican from tn.. sold his hospital stock...just before dr.bredesen tn governor,,shut down the state health care system.which supplied health insurance to most of tn..bredesen and frist are fellow dr,,and bredesen claimes to be a democrat,,but is more like bush,,,i know a lady on social security that has 27 dollars a month left to live on after she buys her medicines,,the news had a case on last week where a man died,because he could not buy his medicine..bredesen shut down..our state run program..with no safety net for uninsured patients,,in tn a health dept..will charge more money than a private doctor..and they are so under funded they can only treat children..people are actually dieing from lack of medical care,,,bredesen got rich selling insurance to poor people..that in most cases was not worth the paper it was wrote on..thats why tn care was started in tn ...he got to be governor. just to get rid of tn care..and now wants to use state money to buy thousands of acres of clear cut land..just to drive up land prices,,and bail out his rich buddies,,who should be required to replant this land...and this would cost tn more money than tn care

I am sick and tired of the neocons coming over here and yapping about that drug ridden moron they have in the white house being so wonderful. I like the way you spelled it out! "Dash" should crawl back under his circle jerk neocon rock and stay there, where he can no longer hear the disgust of most Americans, he must have a 2nd grade education, for only someone that stupid could understand what Dumbya says anyway. He evidently does not know the English laungauge well enough, so he crawls over here on our site to tell us how wonderful of an oratorical leader we have. I think that the whole Republiscum party should be taken to Jail. If they can't empty the Treasury for their own use, they steal, lie and cheat to empty our pockets. Dash must be living in a time warp and doesn't understand simple economics. Or he has been snorting the same thing that those wonderful Republicscums do, like Pat (Preacher Peyote) Robertson who hallucinates with Rush Limp Balls and Dickless Cheney along with Old Condi the Shoe shine Queen and Rove the Criminal. These people are Criminals and should be brought to Justice and not the kind that is hidden away by lies and deceit. It is time that people like Dash come out of the TWILIGHT ZONE and realize what the Republiscum party is doing to this country!

Posted by SadAmerican on September 22, 2005 at 09:01 PM

-------------------------------------------

Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! That post was a joke, right? No?

Seasonal Affected Disordered American has proven himself to be divorced from reality. He refused to listen to reason and science. Instead, he makes illogical and unprovable claims that only a radical religious zelot would make. My guess is he is sadly affected in a disorderly way the whole year round!

When you hear him state, "only the Holy Bible refers to the God ... who set all life into motion", and "if you believe in God, you must get your beliefs from the Bible", then you know that something is wrong in his head.

How ridiculous can one person be??? I guess he never heard of the hundreds of other religions in the world with billions of followers who also believe in God the creator, but are not Christian, do not believe in the Bible, or the earth is only a few thousand years old. Sadmans arrogance and ignorance is truly profound.

Of course he also wrongly assumes I get my beliefs from the Bible, which is incorrect. In reality, I get my knowledge from science.

He used the Bible to claim God intervened on Earth innumerable times in the past and that the fossil records prove the earth is only 6000 years old. Yet, he offers no evidence that those events are anything but myths, legends and fairy tales.

The most pathetic argument of SAD Lad is his use of the Bible to make outrageous claims that the earth is only 6000 years old. It would be funny if it wasn't so obviously and pathetically wrong.

Science has developed and confirmed different theories for Evolution. Even if Bible stories contain details also found, more or less, in scientific explanations, that confers no scientific value on those stories.

The fossil record, especially the succession of different fossils in different rock layers (including many extinct species), is the most compelling evidence against the view that the earth was created quickly and has always contained the same forms of life and also the reason virtually all serious scientists concede that the earth has a long history, a narrative that includes the appearance and disappearance of many different species.

It is also significant that no human remains occur in the fossil record except in the most superficial layers of the earth (graveyards, battlefields, flood plains, and so on). A more or less literal reading of Genesis, of course, would require that human remains occur alongside the remnants of all other created beings.

well i dont like to see people argue about a book with such a short history,,,first the pilgrims came to america so they did not have to use this book...how can any one argue about a book that a king of england had written...and only claims to be his version of the holy scriptures..you claim it is a bible..the people who wrote it never claimed it was..it does contain holy scriptures...king james favorite scriptures...and yes there are older bibles in english..much older..king james did not burn them all..though he tried to

Look. Im just frustrated with our leaders in general. I dont think any of our leaders, with the exception of Dean, are really trying to shake things up.

Frist is from a family of billionaires. He wont get in any trouble. R. Murdoch will make sure the portrayal of Frist will end up making him a victim of unfair media and democrat bullying.

Dean may not be the best leader. I like him though. When I see him on television he presents himself honestly. With the good and the bad. I like his character and I like his energy.

After the pickle Republicans have put us in its going to take an incredible leader to pull our country back together.

Its just a simple fact. Republicans are rich as it gets. If I were rich and had all the power on the hill I bet things would sway in my favor constantly too.

Republicans dont like retirement for its people, new jobs at fair wages, healthcare for all, products made in America, criticism.

Americans do though. Hopefully somewhere down the line a leader will emerge that can spark Americans to do something about it.

Tug, WE DON'T HAVE THE MAJORITY! Once and for all we are letting you with all that minority power call them into court under oath and win the case. All those Majority Republicans would laugh you into jail if any minority tried to prosecute a Majority. We have to get Majority in the House and Senate. However you are looking at it wrong? Those Good Christians in the Republican Party wouldn't be so evil to cheat on insider trading? Don't you remember that is how they won in all branches of Government? The Christian Coalition (I think they are put here on earth) to judge what is that good and perfect will of God? And they know what price they and anyone in the Republican Party will pay if they are just saying they are Christians for Political gain and inside they have evil intentions? You know Bush wouldn't allow it because he reads the Bible and he knows how God wants him to believe and do and never bid anyone God's speed that is working evil! So relax dear one, One thing you can depend on is the true Christians will avoid the very appearance of evil.

Tug, WE DON'T HAVE THE MAJORITY! Once and for all we are letting you with all that minority power call them into court under oath and win the case. All those Majority Republicans would laugh you into jail if any minority tried to prosecute a Majority. We have to get Majority in the House and Senate. However you are looking at it wrong? Those Good Christians in the Republican Party wouldn't be so evil to cheat on insider trading? Don't you remember that is how they won in all branches of Government? The Christian Coalition (I think they are put here on earth) to judge what is that good and perfect will of God? And they know what price they and anyone in the Republican Party will pay if they are just saying they are Christians for Political gain and inside they have evil intentions? You know Bush wouldn't allow it because he reads the Bible and he knows how God wants him to believe and do and never bid anyone God's speed that is working evil! So relax dear one, One thing you can depend on is the true Christians will avoid the very appearance of evil.

Democrats have done everything that's needed, I think maybe you might be over-reacting because we are not so far ahead in the polls right now. We are on the right track. We just got to keep on fighting the fight and let the republicans infight over the katrina package. I am very skeptical of John Roberts, I still do not hold an opinion on him but I'm leaning towards no because I am very worried he might be an activist and he might be more conservative then Rehnquist. He seems like a good man but it worries me when people like James Dobson and Pat Robertson are backing him. Not even Ann Coulter has support for Roberts claiming that he's another Souter, I don't agree with Ann on anything but she might be right in this case. Phil Bredesen is going to win again even if you say he's as bad as he is. His poll numbers are high against his republican opponent. If anything there is no way the GOP will make gains 3 years in a row. People are eventually going to kick the Republicans out, It's going to happen. People are going to get sick to death of them. This is the year where we can win. Tennessee is easily winnable for Ford if the Dems would start going after Van Hilleary. Amy Klobuchar is a weak candidate in the Minnesota U.S. Senate Race. Wetterling is much stronger.

The Democrats can win by doing the following

1. Use something similar to the Contract with America (except make it liberal), it's what helped Newt take power, it's going to help us take back power.

2. Go after Bush and Republicans for their suggestions about gutting the remaining social programs. This may seem suicidal to suggest, but I am strongly in favor of a tax increase to fix this problem right now. Many people in polls say they have no problem paying more money to help Katrina and Rita victims. You might feel the bite on your wallet, but the truth is, The Social Programs are kept running.

3. Slam the Republicans on ethics, we don't need any more Tom DeLays, Bob Neys, Grover Norquists, Ralph Reeds or Jack Abramoffs running the federal government.

4. Go after Bush for giving contracts to his oil friends, Three words, say it with me "Halliburton, Dick Cheney."

5. Make Social Security into our "Hillary Care" issue.

That's what I have to say

It's funny, I see the polls where it says the majority of Americans now disapprove of Bush and his Invasion, his policies, etc, and I wonder who that little blind, ignorant minority is, who votes the other way. Then I come into the blog and see just who those little men are! One only has to read their misinformed, vile, hate-filled posts to know that these people absolutely have no clue!

Frist is Toast, whether he gets his Due for this criminal act or not. He is giving up his Senator position, in hopes of running for Pres! Fat Chance that will happen. All one has to do is take some TV spots, and show Frist sitting there saying Terri Schiavo was Not in a vegatative state by his review of her tapes, and then show the autoposy report saying her brain was mush! He is a laughing stock. This man, supposedly a Dr, doing diagnosis looking at videos? He cannot even go back into medicine!

Hopefully, he will find a job selling shoes and do no more than steal a pair or two from time to time!

Here's why there are so many trolls on here! Running Scared! LOL !!!!!!!!!

WASHINGTON - Heading into a midterm election year, Republicans find themselves with not one, but two congressional leaders — Bill Frist in the Senate and Tom DeLay in the House — fending off questions of ethical improprieties.

The news that federal prosecutors and the Securities and Exchange Commission are looking into Frist's sale of stock in HCA Inc., the hospital operating company founded by his family, comes as a criminal investigation continues of Jack Abramoff, a high-powered Republican lobbyist, and his ties to DeLay of Texas.

Less than a week ago, a former White House official was arrested in the Abramoff investigation.

For Republicans, the timing couldn't be worse

Link

If we can't get them to prosecute Rove or DeLay, you can bet Frist will get off scot free as well. But, as PamB says, we can use it against them in the next election -- if anybody besides the same 49% cares to notice.

You wonder if any Republican or their Christian Right supporters have any shame at this point. We watch as the sick and the old struggle and die in Republican-controlled states as their safety nets are cut. While jerks like Frist continue to pull off these insider trading deals without a moment's conscience.

The corrupt just brazen it out and merrily go on their way like it's God's will for the Republican royalty. And their moronic sheep supporters make excuses for it all. What do they think is going to happen to them when the wolf gets to their door....Frist will help them?

No SandyH,
They have no shame. But remember, torture, lies, incompetence, vacations; you will know us by or our deeds.

I read in my newspaper today that some of the liberal blogs are making Martha Stewart and bill frist, birds of a feather. Although I don't like her personal style leave Martha Stewart out of this. She got prosecuted and slapped in jail so fast while Ken Lay is awaiting his 2008 pardon because she gave money to Dems,

Hey Democrats:

Before you jump on Sen. Frist - how abouot Ms Rodham and her $1,000 into $100,000 in cattle futures??? Hmmmmmm.............

Hey Dems:

Here is the great unspoken contradiction about liberalism:

First, you have burdened us with a welfare state that gobbles up over 2/3 of the national budget - and you resist any efforts to streamline the inefficiencies that have manifested themselves as a result of demographic changes; and...

Second, you have advocated social policy that has included birth control, abortion, euthanasia, women in the workforce displacing men, the destruction of traditional marriage, having more than two children -

These two are mutually incompatible: WHY?

You CANNOT maintain your cradle-to-grave welfare state with a declining population base. You will be forced to do one of three things:

1. Reduce benefits and elegibility;
2. Increase taxes on a declining work force; or
3. Open the floodgates to all sorts of immigration.

The choice will be foisted upon us soon as it is already in Europe - in those "civilized, modern, socialist parliamentary democracies' that cannot support their welfare states.

lots of luck. You have screwed this nation and do not know it. Shame on you.

wow sgatesam,
It seems you're having trouble focusing on the issue; Bill Frist has got caught maikng an illegal insider stock sale. But don't worry, Rove, Scooter and Co got caught outing a CIA agent who was on the front lines of fighting the spread of WMD's to Islamic extremists and they're not going to jail, so Sen Frist has little to worry about.

you rite about clinton but you got your numbers wrong..that was how she made her first million...wonder how that is tied into ..sell out of america to china,,,didnt the famous china trip..by hubby happen about same time...o yes i would vote for hillery

SGATESAM//can you recognize a welfare case when you see one///hint they will drive a hummer,,which cost the tax payer 50.000 american dollars,,,they just borrowed 1.5 millon from the tax payer...spent 750.000 on a apt building..and wrote themselfs a 750.000 pay check...now thats welfare

Trolls, why can't you stay on topic?

Sen Bill Frist mafe an illegal insider stock sale.

He'll hire big gun defense attorneys, and try every trick in the book (and all along complain about ak-tevist judges bein' all lenient on criminals) then get convicted, appeal, and pray for a pardon from Bush...

But it'll all come down to how he handles the first couple of interviews with SEC investigators; honesty, or keeping his mouth shut and he might walk, but if he lies, they'll crucify him.

if you really wonder why frist sold his stock,,,investigate.governor PHILL BREDESEN democrat of tn..his good DR buddy...and you will find that when bredesen did away with the state backed insurance program...the hospitals stood to lose millions of dollars,,,BREDESEN got rich selling cut rate insurance to poor people...and got to be governor just to destroy the state insurance program which sold insurance to the working class,,,and poor people...

frist may have not talked to any company executive...but BREDESEN may have advised his good friend...they are all a bunch of crooks,,thats why they are rich..

Frist is another example of those good old "Moral Values" huh?

Just the culture of corruption in action. Throw the book at him and Governor Bredesen, both the democrats and republicans of Kansas/Tennessee are so corrupt they should be thrown out all of them.

Just jail them all. I'm disgusted.

nick

Bill Frist does the same thing Martha Stewart does, she goes to jail and Frist is still in office. It's time the Democrats start hearings on this issue and subpoena Frist's records on his personal stock dealings. Will the democrats step up to the plate? Stay tuned....

JoeB,

You do realize you're one of the reasons Democrats can't win elections, don't you?

Your short post is loaded with lies and bs.

Are you saying Bill Frist is guilty before innocent? Why would Howard Dean say Osama bin Laden is innocent until proven guilty, but not Frist?

In Martha's case, there is documented evidence of insider trading. You have none with Frist. There was also this thing called A TRIAL!

The stock in the company in question fell only 9%. Sheesh.

I hope every Democrat screams and yells for an investigation. That will be the 5,319th investigation you've called for to date.

Ummm, where were you when Hillary turned $1,000 into $100,000? heheheh....

Ummm, Bill Clinton sold one of the US's largest crude oil reserves to a company that Al Gore owned stock in...Where were you then?

You folks never cease to amaze me.

JohnNei,

Where is your evidence that Senator Frist committed insider trading?

This oughta be fun.

Do you believe a person is innocent until proven guilty? (Nevermind Dean said Osama was innocent until proven guilty)

a list just came out today...400 richest people in america,,,frist and these other politicians are just poor boys trying to steal a little money..which is getting harder to do...1.2 trillion dollars belong to these 400 people..so how much wealth is left to steal in america

I see we have a lot of Republicans reading this website. This is good, we can talk to each other as reasonable people and hopefully make progress. It is in the best interest of the country that ethical people lead the country. Regardless of whether or not Frist can be convicted of insider trading, he has a major problem on his hands. Dash, as a Republican, you should admonish Frist and other GOP officials to cease engaging in questionable behavior. It's bad for the GOP, and it's bad for the country. It is in the interest of our nation, that its officials conduct their business transactions through blind trusts to avoid conflicts of interest and avoid engaging in suspicious stock sales. This protects our financial markets and promotes economic efficiency. It seems to me Frist has a couple of investigations and potential problems right now. The trusts through which the stock sales were conducted were 'blind trusts,' this means he was not even supposed to know what assets comprised the trusts, let alone authorize stock sales through the trusts. He claimed in 2003 that he did not know which stocks he owned, yet in 2005 he authorized a stocksale. It's true, he is innocent until proving guilty. If we witness a person rob a bank teller at gun point, and the individual is arrested and confesses, that person is also innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I'm not saying that Frist is guilty of a crime. Frist probably won't be convicted of insider trading, but the manner in which he conducted these sales through his "blind" trust might lead to a lesser conviction or ethics violation. We should all be concerned about this. There appears to be STRONG evidence he had in his possession knowledge he should not have possessed. Also, that his sale correlated with other insider trading, while almost CERTAINLY not enough to convict him of insider trading in a court of law, is highly suspicious and worthy of scrutiny. Dash, you should demand better behavior than this from your party leaders. If the GOP wants to remain in power, it should be very concerned about recent stories regarding Frist, Delay, and Rove. As Democrats, we have learned the importance of ethical behavior. Unfortunately, we learned the hard way that it doesn't always matter if our officials can be convicted in a court. Dash, I think you and the GOP have will also learn in the upcoming elections that ethics matter.

Slight clarification:
Politicians aren't supposed to know which stocks comprise their blind trusts. Frist wasn't supposed to know what stocks composed his blind trust. He claimed not to know in 2003, yet in 2005 he (ALLEGEDLY) authorized a specific sale of stock. Dash, here is the question: How can he authorize a sale of specific stock, if he had no knowledge of what stocks were in his blind trust (he is required to have no knowledge as he mentioned in an interview in 2003)? Having said this, he is OFFICIALLY innocent until proven guilty of a crime or ethics violation.

Hmm
Another comment to sgatesam:

You need to check your budget numbers. Over 10% of the budget each year goes toward servicing the debt generated during the Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 adinistratoin. Another 20 - 25 % goes toward military spending. Another 20 - 25% goes toward homeland security. Another 20% or so goes toward social security and medicare. rounghlky 3 - 5% goes toward education.... Another huge chunk goes toward infrastructure, you know transportation and such. The point is, clearly 2/3 does not go toward welfare.

Also, when you say we screwed this country, I really try to be sympathetic toward your comments, and I also try to be self-critical in terms of my own views as a Democrat (this leads to improving one's views), but I just don't understand where you're coming from. The GOP has run up the national debt and had to repeatedly increase the the debt ceiling. The deficit is at record highs. I know you'd love to blame us, but guess what, YOU'RE IN CONTROL OF ALL THREE BRANCHES! I'm glad you understand that this counrty has been screwed. Do you know who should be blamed for the screwing, THE PARTY THAT WAS IN POWER AND HAD THE POWER TO DO THE SCREWING SHOULD BE BLAMED FOR THE SCREWING. Since 1968, we have had republican presidents for roughly 25 years (by 2008 it'll be 28 out of the last 40 years). The GOP has been in control of both houses of the legislature for roughly 12 years!! You currently have an incredible 55 senators!! You've nominated 7 out of 9 Supreme Court Justices. To the extent there are problems in this country, the Republicans are to blame. Your party is in power. Your party is responsible for the current state of the union. To the extent you believe this wonderful country has been screwed, your party, the Republican party in power, is the party that screwed this nation.

talking budget,,,you take total amount of goverment workers from local to federal...they approach the total american work force,,the retired goverment employees..draw more money than our entire budget for social programs..most are over 60.000 per year..in some counties the entire population is on tax payer pay roll...so how can we borrow the money to keep going

in this county i live in over 85% work for the goverment 5% for private business..the rest are unemployed or draw goverment money

Frist is innocent till proven guilty but the disabled and the elderly are a bunch of freeloaders?

So the Republicans want them to get off their lazy behinds and get a service job flipping burgers for rich kids, who ride around in their parents' tax-deductible Hummers and waste a lot of gasoline? With the baby boomer generation now reaching their '60's this is not going to happen. So give up your pipedreams, sgatesam.

You Republicans might think you can throw the sick and elderly out on the streets and watch them die...but after the New Orleans Convention Center images of inhumanity, CNN knows a good visual story sells big time to the American conscience. All those Republican Governors and state legislatures are about to be exposed as the same unfeeling frauds as Spunky was with Katrina.

Get ready for the shame to flow on 24/7. Those young, ambitious cable reporters have tasted Republican blood and want more. They see the perfect backdrop for the '06 elections and will make their "name" on your greed and corruption. It makes you wonder who is more power-crazed. But at this point I don't care. Let the shame game begin.

P.S. You left out alternative #4. Make the wealthy shoulder the burden that they have been avoiding since the Republican Contract for America took them off the hook.

That or there is always #5. Bastille Day-American style. Don't think it can't happen. We already had one revolution in this country. A bunch of angry, old gezzers with arsenals of guns could do a lot of damage in wealthy conclaves.

Ques serra, serra.

Looks like "Camp Cupcake" for ole frist.

That or there is always #5. Bastille Day-American style. Don't think it can't happen. We already had one revolution in this country. A bunch of angry, old gezzers with arsenals of guns could do a lot of damage in wealthy conclaves. (Posted by Sandy)

Sandy - I believe the time is just about here.

now about them news reporters,,if you are democrat. the cnn are your boys,,they will only say what you want to hear...if you are republican same for fox news..they got to cater to their market..its not the reporters fault..americans only want to hear their own point of view

Kev,

You seem like a nice person, so I won't accuse you of lying. However, you are complety inaccurate on the blind trust of Senator Frist.

First of all, a person DOES know what stocks are in his blind stocks. Senator Frist listed the value of those stocks on his financial sheets. From the Washington Post, paragraph 8: "Frist's signed financial disclosure statements indicate that the overall value of his blind trusts did not substantially change from 2003 to 2004."

The purpose of a "blind trust" is to not let the person owning the stocks have control over future trading of that stock. HOWEVER, the US Senate rules allow for a Senator to sell stocks in that blind trust. From the Washington Post again:

"A sample agreement for blind trusts published by the Senate ethics committee staff on its Web site states that there should be no "direct or indirect communication" between senators and trustees unless the senator is directing the trustee "to sell all of an asset . . . [which] creates a conflict of interest or the appearance thereof due to the subsequent assumption of duties" by the senator.

The only thing the GOP Haters are clinging to is the fact that the stock fell a "whopping" 9% (wow) after Frist sold his stock.

If you folks want to go after Frist for selling stocks in front of a 9% drop, I say give him your best shot. But there are several of us GOPers who want to know why you gave Hillary a free pass on her stock transactions. (remember the cattle futures?)

Where were you when Clinton sold one of the US's largest crude oil reserves (Elk Hills) to a company Al Gore owned stock in? (Occidental)

There seems to be a HUGE double standard at work here.

Again, I appreciate your polite response and look forward to debating later.

Please find below the link to the Washington Post article I was referencing:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/21/AR2005092102065.html

Thanks,
Neal

Wow Trolls, here's the difference in what Hillary did what Frist did.

Her cattles futures contracts were being traded by her advisor. She wasn't daytrading it from a laptop. And what is always left out are all the trades he made that resulted in small gains, and losses. And anyone who has traded commodities or FOREX currencies can tell you that if you make enough leveraged trades, eventually one is a big home run. Or you lose big, and a nice man comes and takes your house, car, furniture etc.

Sen Frist on the other hand being the son of the HCA's founder and one of the largest shareholders MAY have been privy to information that other investors weren't. And if he acted on it, as did many other HCA officers in the same time frame, then blind trust or not, he broke the law.

And the issue stems from the dismal earnings report which triggered the price drop. And I'm not aware of any new conflicts of interest that Frist may have recently accrued...

And sawmiller,
If you are in a foriegn country, what's your stake in the USA? Do you realize that the Barry Goldwater conservative revolution is turning our cities into third world ghettos?
In Arizona there are more payday loan centers than there are McDonalds and Starbucks combined!
And we had a major US city that supplies over 20% of our gasoline get wiped out because tax cuts for the wealthy are more important than improvements in infrastructure.
And our leadership couldn't do anything to save people who were stranded in homes and nursing centers for more than a week!
And as a point of comparison, last year a CAT 5 storm hit the island of Cuba, and Castro evacuated 1.5 million people, 20,000 homes were destoyed, an entire city was flooded, but not a single person was killed by the storm winds or floods.

JohnNei,

If Hurricane Katrina had hit New Orleans in January 2001, would the levees have broken?

Why didn't the Governor and Mayor of New Orleans use those school buses there were outlined in Louisiana's Hurricane Evacuation Plan to evacuate folks who couldn't afford transportation?

JohnNei,

Please provide your source that shows Hillary's cattle futures were "traded by her advisor" and "all the trades he made were small gains".

Also, please clear up a contradiction in your post. You said that "all the trades he made were small gains" yet you then said "that if you make enough leveraged trades, eventually one is a big home run." Why in the hell did you put that in the post since "all trades he made were small gains"?

I trade commodities. And no, you don't always eventually hit a home run or lose big. Put your stops in, like a prudent trader does, and neither happens.

I look forward to those answers.

OK DASH, here is ALL of what I wrote.

"And what is always left out are all the trades he made that resulted in small gains, and losses." Maybe an "or" would have been better... clearer.

So, many trades are a small gain.
Many are for small losses.
But it takes only one big leveraged position to generate a huge gain.

So lets try this again. What the right wing drugged out sleaze bag talking heads never mention are all the trades that were made that were inconsequential, leaving the right wing sheep to believe that she made a single, solitary, one-time trade for a huge profit.

And if you do trade then you should understand this. And you should also understand that Frist will likely get Frog marched outta office, because what he did looks awfully dirty.

But you don't wanna talk about that... How 'bout Karl Rove and his Grand Jury testimony? Is W Bush drinking again? Bush's poll numbers? The KKK-religious right wanting a real good ol' boy for the next Supreme? Social Security getting gutted for mo' tax breaks?

And how is it the responsibilty of school bus drivers making 10 bucks an hour to save we the people when a natural disaster strikes? WTF, you can't blame Spunky Bush's incompetence on School teachers unions, war protesters, or the fedrul govmint?
Oh wait, with y'all holding all 3 branches, you are the Feds...
And what about Reagan's ol' line about 3rd biggest lie, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you." I wonder if all those Coasties, and National Guardsmen told that one to the 10's of thousands of people they saved?

Oh, and I what worked as a process server, and used to serve papers to folks; and sometimes it was from the CBOT, or a Wall Street brofer, and the gist was "You've got 30 days to pack...", so it is one of the possible outcomes.

Oh, hey trolls,
Do you guys get paid? Or is spreading-lies,& half-truths,parsing-and-being-logically-dishonest all day just your hobby?
Crickey, I hope you get at least 30 silver sheckels/day. And since so many of you profess such strong religious beliefs, what does your bible tell you about honesty? Or how about the importance of getting rich over helping the poor?

Dash, you are just an apologist for your party.
Anything that a republican might do that has any hint of impropriety, you dismiss. The democrats not only have a right to question Frist on this matter, but an obligation as well. No one is really saying that he is guilty, but most are saying that he LOOKS guilty. And no matter what you say those are the facts. And all of your rhetoric about dems and investigations....please, I mean, please give it a break. This is just hypocrisy of the tallest order. After the republicans held the american people hostage to their endless investigations of Clinton, how you could form a critique on the democrats for wanting an investigation here or on Bush's appointments to FEMA is beyond belief.

JohnNei,

Ok. I'm done with you. The "KKK"? "drinking"? All of this because I wanted you to support your statements about Hillary's trades.

Later.

WASHINGTON -- Blind trusts are designed to keep an arm's-length distance between federal officials and their investments, to avoid conflicts of interest. But documents show that Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist knew quite a bit about his accounts from nearly two dozen letters from the trust administrators.

Frist (R-Tenn.) received regular updates of transfers of assets to his blind trusts and sales of assets. He also was able to initiate a stock sale of a hospital chain founded by his family with perfect timing. Shortly after the sale this summer, the stock price dived.

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And for those who are STILL bringing up school buses and with hindsight why Nagrin did not just merrily bus everyone out, here is a nice un-biased source that sheds some light on that!

Whether this photograph truly represents a lost opportunity to have evacuated a substantial number of New Orleans residents ahead of Hurricane Katrina is difficult to assess. Such a claim presumes an availability of resources (e.g., experienced drivers, fuel) and workable logistics (e.g., sufficient means of notifying and getting residents to departure points, sufficiently clear roads for multiple trips out of town and back, adequate facilities within a reasonable driving distance capable of providing shelter, food, and water to a large number of people for an indeterminate period of time on short notice) that may or may not have been present. (There's no guarantee that all the buses shown in this picture were even in working condition.) And, given the particular geography of New Orleans, any such evacuation would have had to have begun well in advance of Hurricane Katrina to avoid exposing residents to the potential danger of being stuck in buses on traffic-clogged roads in the path of an approaching hurricane. Moreover, any type of evacuation effort would have incurred a substantial outlay of funds from local and/or state governments — while everyone agrees with the advantage of hindsight that would have been money well spent, many taxpayers might not have been left feeling so enthusiastic about footing the bill for an unnecessary evacuation had Hurricane Katrina not proved so damaging.

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Goodfences,

I will agree the Republicans were stupid for going after Clinton on that "hummer". A total waste of money.

However, the GOP can't touch the Democratic Party when it comes to the hatred level against Bush. Heck, the DNC ran an ad showing children asking for more arsenic in their water accusing Bush of wanting to poison children. I'm not sure if there has EVER been anything as disgusting as that ad in the history of Presidential politics. You people have blamed Bush for darn near everything that has happened. Enron, NYC Power outage, Abu Garaib, Shuttle disaster, Katrina, Gitmo, AWOL, DUI, 911, WMDs, 60 Minutes Memo, Energy costs etc. The list goes on and on for what you've blamed Bush.

Your party doesn't have a message. Howard Dean admitted as much last month. Here's a question: What is the Democrat's plan to lower energy costs? You might want to examine that instead of chasing Frist and that 9% drop in stock value.

But getting back to Frist...I crack up at the "obligation" you have to investigate Frist when all of that illegal campaign money hit the Democratic Party in 1996. Remember the 90+ Democrats fleeing the country or pleading the 5th? Wow....That's an "obligation" being honored.

Here's the deal: Frist sold his stock in front of a 9% drop. If that constitutes as "insider trading" to you guys, then please, by all means, spend all of your resources going after Frist, and we'll gain seats in the Senate and House again.

Let's clear some things up about insider trading: If Frist ordered this trade using non public information, that is insider trading. Conversely, if Frist had ordered to buy more shares right before an earnings report that exceeded analyst expectations, there would still be the need for an inquiry from the SEC. The percentage drop does not matter in regards to the rules.

Brokerages are required to know when their customers are insiders (meaning anyone who owns majority shares,is board member CEO,CFO,COO etc., or is a relative of an insider). When pertinent trades happen involving these customers, the brokerage reports it. They're required to do so. If I'm not mistaken, because Frist is a public official, his trades are disclosed. But even so, he's considered an insider by relation, so he automatically gets more scrutiny by the SEC. This is by no means a witch hunt. Let the SEC do its job and let the chips fall.

Also, let's keep in mind that the 9% drop is only part of the pains the stock is experiencing. It reached a 52 week high in July, and as of the time of this post, HCA stock is approximately 18.77% off its 52 week high.

http://quicktake.morningstar.com/Stock/StockPerformance.asp?Country=USA&Symbol=HCA&stocktab=charts

And what if we were just talking about a 9% drop? Well, picture that your next paycheck just out of the blue adds on 9% more taxes on top of your usual taxes. I KNOW no one thinks that's a 9% they'd be perfectly fine with. Now, make that 17-19%. Sucks, doesn't it?
(I'm not defending insider trading BTW, just putting investment loss in some perspectives we all can relate to)

To a rightwing looney,,nothing that any Republican does is bad. Murder would be OK. Everytime something like the First insider trading scandel gets out, the propaganda machine starts with this,"once upon a time I can remember when one of your guys did something". They just won't talk about what their guy did so we have to assume all accusations are true. It is pathetic.

Zippy,

You are dead on accurate. "If" Frist took knowledge that the public didn't have and sold/bought ANY stock, then that would be insider trading. I would then say lock his ass up.

I'm just putting it in prospective. Frist sold in front of a 9% drop. If the "insider" information Frist took caused him to dump all of that stock, you would think it would have fallen more than 9%.

Frist is too smart. In my opinion, there's no way he did it. But hey, that's just an opinion.

Tug,

You might want to pay attention to our posts with a litte more detail.

I DID talk about every aspect of what Frist did. So your "They just won't talk about what their guy did....." is bogus.

We just want to know why you hold Frist and the others (Lott, Bush, et.al.) to a different standard. Is that asking too much?

Thanks.

"If the "insider" information Frist took caused him to dump all of that stock, you would think it would have fallen more than 9%."

I'm sorry, I don't understand the logic here. Are you saying that the potential loss he avoided wasn't big enough for us to think that there might be some behind the scenes stuff going on? It's the fact that he avoided the 9% drop AND his brother and father started the company AND that it likely saved him anywhere between tens of thousands and millions of dollars.

Additionally, if you think that a 9% loss isn't that big of a deal then, you don't sound like someone who's ever invested in individual stock in the open market(and obviously, correct me if I'm wrong on that count).

To recover a 9% loss your investment return has to be 18% just to BREAK EVEN. Long term consensus projections estimate that the general U.S. Stock Market is going to return 7-9% on average annually over the next ten years. So if one sold all your shares AFTER the drop and invested the money in a much more diversified portfolio replicating the whole market, if they were lucky, they would break even from pre-drop levels in approximately 2 years.

The first day of the stock market crash of 1929, the market fell 12% (just a MERE 3% more than HCA's one day slide) and we all know how long it took to recover from that...

It's only my opinion, but I think a 9% loss in an investment is NOT a small drop.

You are losing here Dash, and it is getting a bit painful to watch. (not really)(grin). I hope Frist fairs a bit better than you. Your focusing on 9% isn't really that meaningful. I mean if I stole a thousand dollars it would be ok, but 10,000 is another matter? What's important is that he sold his holdings just in front of pulbic statements by the company that caused the stock to go downward. Why not wait until the public statements had already been made. Oh, I forgot, he didn't know they were going to be made. I see. By the way, I'm not a democrat. I'm a registered republican. I voted for Reagan,Bush Clinton, and Dubya (twice). You are right about the dems and their not having focus. The focus on gay and abortion rights has really hurt them as well. But the unending hypocrisy,cronyism, greed, and good ol' boy corruption of the current administration is getting old and wearing on alot of people. Did I mention arrogance? I forgot that one. If Frist is the best that the republican party can do in the next political presidential election, I will be voting democratic, and I believe that alot of other like minded people will as well.

GoodFences,

Well, you've just exposed yourself as a fraud. Please cut and paste when I said it was "ok" for Frist to sell in front of a 9% slide. Here are your words: "Your focusing on 9% isn't really that meaningful. I mean if I stole a thousand dollars it would be ok, but 10,000 is another matter?" Fraudulent discourse from you. I CLEARLY said if he committed insider trading, he should go to jail. I NEVER said it was ok. Come on, Sparky...TRY to be honest.

The 9% analogy is putting it in prospective. Its like embezzling $275. Its illegal, as is going 57 in a 55 mph zone, but its not to the level you Bush Haters make it.

Give me Frist over Ted Kennedy & Dick "Nazi" Durbin any day.

Zippy,

That's why I said if selling in front of a 9% slide is something big for you guys, I want you to spend all your time and resources going after Frist.

And I will always wonder why Hillary's cattle futures and Terry McAuliffe's stock trades weren't scrutinized by ANY Democrat.

Heck...Bill Clinton sold one of the US's largest crude oil reserves to a company that Al Gore owned stock in. (Elk Hills & Occidental). NOT A PEEP from the Democratic Party.

I appreciate the debate and hope we can continue.

Thanks,
Neal

i dont know if frist,,was warned to sell his stock or not ...but any one watching tv news..could see when the federal judge let them do away with tenn care in tenn,,and other states medical insurance programs...hell yes insured patience would drop...wal-mart used these state insurance programs for there employees,,,as did all other low wage jobs,,and many private people was able to get blue care ins.at a price they could afford...and are now uninsured,,,and the so called democrat governors did that..so the democrats are these ones to blame for this,,,and i am a democrat,,,but the republicans do better on medical..the truth is the truth

Okay Neal, I think I may understand the point you're trying to make, but here's why I don't feel the same way about it. First, let me give some full disclosure that I am a democrat and I hold no position in HCA, nor do I plan to. I am not a GOP hater. I do disagree with most of the GOP platform, but that has no bearing on my view of Bill Frist in this matter. I'm simply pissed over the possibility that Frist may have broken the rules and profited by breaking the rules (and yes, I know he didn't technically "profit", but in the world of the stock market, not losing money when everyone else is losing is a very valuable thing).
If I understand correctly, when you talk about the 9%, you are referring in basic terms to how this whole thing "looks". That Democrats should keep in it in perspective, or in other words, keep their anger relative to the possible crime. I personally am not angry because of the 9%. I'm pissed because he may have violated securities law. If Bill Frist is found to have committed insider trading, the violation won't be that he protected 9% more of his money, the violation will be trading on information that isn't available to the general public. The 9% is merely the result of the violation.

BTW, it should be noted that every crime has a victim and that the victims of insider trading are other shareholders and the integrity of the market itself. 60% of white collar workers participate through 401k's so this indirectly affect lots of people.

If Frist were to be found guilty, then the angry people would be justified just like in this hypothetical example: If one person stabs another person with a knife but doesn't kill them, does the fact that they didn't kill the victim mean that they aren't guilty of assault with a deadly weapon and/or attempted murder? The public could still be angry at the aggressor for attacking with the victim with the knife in the first place. (and yes, I know this is a very crude example)

The Democratic leaders won't focus on the 9% because it is the violation in question. They'd focus on it because it makes a better sound byte. That's just politics.
As far as the Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Hilary examples you cited above, frankly, I don't know the details of those particular cases. What exactly was the securities law that was broken in each of the cases. If the SEC didn't find anything wrong, why should the Democrats have raised a fuss? If it's an ethical issue you're concerned with (with Clinton selling oil reserves to Occidental), I believe in Karmic free markets. And well, the Republicans got back at the Democrats later with no bid contracts in Iraq.

Anyway, we can talk all we want and politicize our arguments, but this is not a political question. It's a legal one. And it's the SEC that conducts the investigation, NOT the Democratic Party.

Peter

Peter,

Your last post sort of addresses my problem with the Democratic Party. You said "If the SEC didn't find any