Open Thread
For the evening...
Comments (713) «
And thank you Josh!
and thank you, fates!
Groups Unhappy With Bush Performance
Timing? my ass
No. 2 Justice Candidate Withdraws Name
- Timothy E. Flanigan on Friday withdrew his nomination to be deputy attorney general amid a delay in his confirmation because of his dealings with indicted Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff.
Flanigan, a senior lawyer for Tyco International Ltd., wrote to
President Bush that he was withdrawing because of "uncertainty concerning the timing of my confirmation."
Sorry Gatto! I'm getting back in the swing of things after being largely absent. (And I do mean largely.) Did someone say ham sammiches?
AP: 539 Bodies Found in Iraq Since April
I know the Shrub has denied this, but it makes me happy to post it yet again, because I believe he really said it!
God made him do it: Bush's divine intervention
“We’re on a mission from gaad.” - Elwood Blues, 1980
“God would tell me, ‘George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq.” - George W. Bush, 2003
According to a new BBC, 3-part, documentary called: Israel and the Arabs: Elusive Peace President Bush claimed to have been anointed by God to go into Afghanistan, Iraq and get the Palestinian's their own state.
The White House, so far, has categorically denied this story but nonetheless, the three-part documentary will air on BBC and later in the US via PBS.
According to the documentary, Bush, during a Israeli-Palestinian summit, mentioned, among other things, that God spoke to him personally and told him to invade Iraq, Afghanistan and give the Palestinians their own state.
Sorry if repost, but you have to see this:
http://streaming.americanprogress.org/ThinkProgress/2005/energy_vote.320.240.mov.html
Jen @ 5:55
let us pray that our party leaders do not attempt to attract all these disaffected Republican evangelicals, small government fanatics, etc by attempting to be more Republican than Bush.
Damn it: let's sell Traditional Denocratic Values!!! just like Pam says
*waving at Cyn and Kristen*
"I feel that if our constitutional system ever fails, it will be because people got scared and turned hysterical and someone in power will demagogue them right into a police state of some kind. That's what I've always worried about. And still do."
Sound familiar? It should...
Good Evening, Jen, Cyn_NY, Lizzy, A G Gatto!
Hope everyone is well . . .
:)
http://http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/07/house-block-vote/
Right-Wing House Twists Arms, Thwarts Democracy To Pass Oil Industy Windfall
Emotions erupted on the floor of the House of Representatives this afternoon as the right-wing-led Congress held open yet another vote to twist arms and pass a bill that would line the pockets of energy company executives. The House leadership held the five-minute vote open for almost 50 minutes until they could convince three lawmakers — Reps. Wayne Gilcrest (R-MD), C.W. Bill Young (R-FL) and Jim Gerlach (R-PA) — to change their minds. The bill passed 212-210. As the vote concluded, opponents of the bill chanted in unity: “Shame, Shame, Shame!”
Hey Paul,
Cyn, I just posted the vid.
Shameful.... I am hoping to see this video over and over in the 2006 midterms. .
A big shoutout hello to LIZZY and wanted to let you know I now regularly read your blog. How do you find the time?
guess not! lol
Hi {{{Paul}}}!
Amen {{{bb}}}! October 7, 2005 at 06:06 PM
11 Hurt in Texas Plastics Plant Explosion; "An Unreasonable Woman' Not Surprised
Hello, Paul!
Gatto, sorry for the duplication. My mind sometimes travels faster that my reading... But, you are right - it deserves a repost!
From Despair to Hope
by Cindy Sheehan
Published on Friday, October 7, 2005 by CommonDreams.org
LOL Cyn, I get lots of help. Don't forget to send a warm welcome to...
And Gatta, I am just reading now.
Posted by Jen on October 7, 2005 at 05:44 PM
Jen, it may not seem like it, but I really do understand how you feel. But sometimes, we have to realize that our emotions, such as love for our homes (for God, for another person, etc) can keep us from seeing things that we don't want to see but that are nonetheless true. Maybe it isn't people who think like me trying to get all of us to turn our backs on your state, but most of your state having turned its back on you.
All I'm saying is maybe.
Yes, I think it can happen. I have actually blue-printed it before, with maps (I'm not obsessed with this, but I did have to make sure that this could actually work before I started flappin' my lips. I wouldn't want to be....a Republican). The only negative is that without the left here to keep the right in check, they'd likely destroy the world within 3 years. But if they don't then several good things stand to come out of it:
We get to have our own country our way and the red staters (not you, but the idealogically red) get to have their country their way, and no more mudslinging. No more hate. No more animosity. Look, Jen, yesterday and today, someone who worked for Bill Clinton has come out with a tell-all book bashing him and talking Clinton-era Republican talking points. It's all to divert attention away from Republican failings and criminality by pushing the Clinton button that works on their entire base as well as to make the author rich and famous. Aren't you sick of it? Doesn't the fact that we're still combating the Clinton bashing show you how hard people cling to their hate and their biases and that in lots and lots of cases you're NOT going to get them to change?
Let me ask you something. Is there a point, if the Republicans continue to win despite all our best efforts, where you would ever think, "Maybe NOW it's time," or are you going to continue to love your state and want to live there no matter how many decades people like DeLay and Bush are in power? If there is a point like that in the future, maybe you and I should revisit this issue then (a time which hopefully will never come because the mass insanity of the right will wear off).
Posted by A_G_GATTO on October 7, 2005 at 06:06 PM
Let me know if you find a non-Quick Time dependent version of this.
Hey Jen. Give it up. Some people will bang their heads against a brick wall no matter what logic is presented to them.
From another blue dem in a red state. And, if anyone thinks I'm leaving my adopted home, you're nuts.
Oh no, not this "man on dog" stuff again. What's with these Right Wing sex perverts?
Dobson: Same-sex marriage would lead to "marriage between daddies and little girls ... between a man and his donkey"
yep, Firefly, you're definitely Nikki!
I believe that a) the Repubs will NEVER let any states leave without a bloody fight. It seems you are assuming as fact that the majority of people in the red states are Repubs of the ideologically radical kind. I am not convinced that that is true.
But, no, I don't really care to hypothesize further on this subject at this time.
Jeez, Blue, I thought you'd at least let me get good and bloody before you stepped in! ;) lol I have said the last I plan to on that one.
I went over to the GOP site....
Usually, Mehlman has a big picture of the House Floor with a headline like:
Congress Passes Energy Bill
I don't think we'll be seeing that any time soon!
Oh yea,
37%
Spin that, Mehlman
Just so people know:
parliamentary inquiry - A question from the floor to the Presiding Officer by a Senator requesting a clarification of the procedural situation on the floor. Responses to parliamentary inquiries are not rulings of the Presiding Officer, but may lead the Senator posing the inquiry or another to raise a point of order.
Lastly, I think that the House should park a Senator outside 24/7 from now on.
They can work in shifts.
Gatto:
They could promote jobs and have folks bring them coffee and sammiches too.
ICH quotes:
"Any time we deny any citizen the full exercise of his constitutional rights, we are weakening our own claim to them." : Dwight D. Eisenhower (1890-1969), 34th US President, WWII General - Source: Reader’s Digest, December 1963
=
"The rights of all persons are wrapped in the same constitutional bundle as those of the most hated member of the community.": A. L. Wirin - ACLU Attorney: Source: Time Magazine, 10 February 1978
=
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." Bishop Desmond Tutu - (1931- ) Nobel Prize for Peace 1984
===
Today, the press was asking about the appointment of a successor for Alan Greenspan. Does anyone know of a list of George's caterers, florists, handymen, dog-walkers, corporate oil executives etc., so we can get a jump on the nominee?
Hi Fellow Democrats,
I keep wondering what the penalty would be if Delay continues to act in the position of Majority leader without the formal title? The problem here is that enough Republicans just go along with all of the nonesense and thus ensure the system can not work. I guess we have to depend on criminal convictions of those indicted, or soon to be indicted, with those convictions carrying prison sentences and thus physically preventing them from continuing in their assumed roles?
All,
There was several on Thursdays open thread who wanted to copy the list of Democratic President legislation. Go ahead as that belongs to all of us, post it where you like. If you can remember anything I've left out on it, please let me know and I'll add it. Best to all.
U.S. Continues Forced Feeding Of Hunger Strikers
The prisoners are shackled to their beds 24-hours a day to stop them removing the tubes
By Reuters
Amnesty International and human-rights lawyer Clive Stafford Smith, representing 40 detainees, said on Thursday that US authorities were keeping 21 alive by forcing food into their stomachs through tubes pushed up their noses.
U.S. Continues Forced Feeding Of Hunger Strikers
Hi Will, did you have that list sourced? It was a really impressive job you did!
US forces bomb Iraq's Euphrates bridges
Btw, Nikki/Firefly, I do hope things are going well for you and your family.
LOL Lizzy
We need to create a Sammich Brigade!
It's ok, though. My witness of this latest trouncing of the Democratic process shows me that the holes are being dug deeper and deeper.
I believe that these folks are very woried about a possible indictment and later an impeachment coming down the road and are scrambling to pass every possible agenda before it all comes 'a tumblin' down.
A G,
What is your point to parking a Senator outside the House?
"Man on dog"-Santorum, "Man on donky"-Dobson, "Man on duck"-O'Rielly. These people are SICK! At least they all got the same Rove "talking points". See how they all work together? While half of our side works for the Republicans and tries to covince us we should be just like Republicans.
Dobson's comments regarding marriage with donkeys echoed Fox News host Bill O'Reilly's obsession with barnyard animal marriages.
Jen,
The info for the list came off online encyclopedias and the Carter library website. The encyclopedias were Wikipedia and a few others. The Carter library was where his legislation was from. The rest from the encyclopedias. On Wikipedia to find the most info you have to look up the names of the programs like "New Deal" to get the most info. Those are referenced under each presidents name. The few dates with legislation under republicans came from the Democrat website here.
have a great weekend dems! Hopefully, by Monday, we will have several new indictments to celebrate.
SUPPORT THE TROOPS, IMPEACH BUSH!
The senate has some governing power over the House Rules. Further, many house objections and points of order must be signed by at lease one Senator before it is accepted.
Do Right Wingers use "fear" to get people to vote how they want? Is predicting sex with dogs, donkeys, and ducks fear mongering? How about "terrist" under the bed for the rest of your life? How in the hell can our Dems in the Senate and the House let this guy get away with telling us he's "saving us from terriss" by attacking the WRONG COUNTRY!? All he's doing is killing the wrong people and claiming to be "saving us" while doing so. He's not saving me, the @$$hole, he's just saving his corporate crook cronie's oil profits.
Poll: Groups unhappy with Bush performance
Uh oh...whole groups are jumping off the Bush bandwagon. (with such sad news for the President, why oh why can I not stop smiling)
No. 2 Justice candidate withdraws name
WASHINGTON -- Timothy E. Flanigan on Friday withdrew his nomination to be deputy attorney general amid a delay in his confirmation because of his dealings with indicted Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff.
Flanigan, a senior lawyer for Tyco International Ltd., wrote to President Bush that he was withdrawing because of "uncertainty concerning the timing of my confirmation."
Another sicko. He's sick I tell ya.
In response to assisted suicide law, Limbaugh offered alternatives, including a Lake George cruise.
During a discussion of Oregon's assisted suicide law on the October 5 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh suggested alternative ways individuals could choose to end their lives, including "[a] six pack, and hose, and go sit in your car, and wave sayonara. You can take a cruise ship on Lake George in New York." The Oregon law is currently under review by the Supreme Court, which heard oral arguments in the case on the morning of October 5.
Limbaugh's comment about Lake George is an apparent reference to an incident in which a tour boat on the upstate New York lake capsized, killing 20 passengers.
Limbaugh also referenced the suicide of writer Hunter S. Thompson in February: "I love the Hunter Thompson method. You go into your kitchen. You grab a shotgun. You aim -- and the shotgun -- and you can't miss. You blow yourself up in the kitchen sink so you don't create a mess, then Johnny Depp comes out to your house and blows your ashes into outer space via a cannon."
Sicko Rush
~But I may be off a bit on that.
I have taken the task of reading the Senate and House rules, which is a pretty big motza ball!
For the list of legislation I posted yesterday, please add this under Harry S Truman.
1946
Established the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) by the Atomic Energy Act of 1946. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission was started eventually from this.
Little Green Footballs folks just hate it when they have their torture rights taken away. More Right Wing sickos
McCain on Greta talking Abu Graib ugh, and his bullshit amendment. he will not be our next President or Republican nominee, you read it here
Little greenies
Domingo, here are some interesting news for you regarding sex and drugs.
Between Rush Limbaugh and Mayor West of Spokane Washington, they don't give a squat about human rights, both are supreme hippocras.
Rush and his legal team is using the law case Roe vs. Wade as a method to block any medical record from being released or used in the drug abuse case against him.
Mayor West is facing recall election ballot counts today, because he used city computers to solicit sex at gay websites.
“Mayoral recall heads to the ballot, enough signatures validated” KHQ-TV http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9613828/
Mayor West was caught attempting to give a police agent, posing as a young gay man, a job at the city in exchange for sex. Two boy scouts have come forward to provide evidence they had sex with Mayor West when he was their scout and church leader. Here is a man who spoke out against granting gay rights, against granting insurance coverage to same sex partners, and preached damnation about gays and lesbians; now he is trying to tell the voters of Spokane he was having sex with young men but claim he did nothing wrong. Sex slaves ok, granting human right to gays not ok!
Two boy scouts have come forward to provide evidence they had sex with Mayor West when he was their scout and church leader. Here is a man who spoke out against granting gay rights, against granting insurance coverage to same sex partners, and preached damnation about gays and lesbians
That's what the Republican party is full of, self-hating gays, self-hating Blacks, and just plain old hating Christians. They're one messed up group of people, I'll tell ya. They got a whole lot of hate in them, and that's what their trouble is, they hate the world.
Domingo,
They don't hate using Roe vs. Wade when it suits them. They don't hate gays or lesbians when it suits their lust.
They just do not want to grant rights to human dignity.
Like Jay Leno stated last night.
George Bush is not a racist, he just hate blue people and blue people are many races.
The republicans own president said this;
"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid".
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower in a letter to his brother Edgar, November 8, 1954
After 06 housecleaning sweeping out Santorum, DeWine, Kyl, Talent, Burns and picking up open seat in Tennessee. Democratics will control the senate.
If you didn't see this article on CNN, you might find it interesting. It adds some information about what Judy Miller may have told the Grand Jury.
I can't wait until Rick Santorum is no longer a Senator!
I write him at least once a week about the USA PATRIOT Act and get the same form letter the next week.
Pardon my French, but he is truly a douche!
Their number is negligible and they are stupid...
Wow, Will!
PeppermintLizzy,
The problem is that after Regan, that negligible number has grown to where the whole GOP is that way. Ford even tried to get several republican senators to not back impeaching Clinton. At least he and Nixon were more moderate but still crooked. Regan done all he could do to rip apart the social welfare programs that was made by LBJ. He did a good job of it too. The thing is, this dirtiness increased since November 1980.
Hey, Firefly,
This is the closest one I could find:
http://www.ameratsu.com/media/vid/cnn/cnn_house_divided_energy_bill_051007a.wmv
Hey nightbirds!
A rare Friday nite visit from me!
Waving to everyone and to let you know the BAR IS OPEN!
If you know a Democrat who is on the fence on Ferrer over Bloomberg please send them the linked cartoon
http://villagevoice.com/news/0539,sutton,68196,9.html
Please send Ferrer a donation by going to www.ferrer2005.com so we can send the Republican Bush supporting billionaire Mayor back to Bloomberg Inc.
Poetry corner:
This is a poem made up entirely of actual quotations from George W. Bush, arranged for aesthetic purposes, by Washington Post writer Richard Thompson.
Make the Pie Higher!
I think we all agree, the past is over.
This is still a dangerous world.
It's a world of madmen and uncertainty
And potential mental losses.
Rarely is the question asked
Is our children learning?
Will the highways of the Internet
Become more few?
How many hands have I shaked?
They misunderestimate me.
I am a pit bull on the pant leg of opportunity.
I know that the human being
And the fish can coexist.
Families is where our nation finds hope,
Where our wings take dream.
Put food on your family!
Knock down the tollbooth!
Vulcanize society!
Make the pie higher!
I wonder if there's a correlation between illiteracy and obstinate, often-wrong-but-never-in-doubt management.
hi all popping in again to say hi and wish i could stay but i can't sit up in this office. i need my laptop back! love the poem frances! hi tonito! wish i could stay for a drink! maybe see you all later.
Good evening, Democrats! TONITO!! May I please have a Merlot?
Good Night Everyone!
Keep your spirits up. It looks like George W.'s numbers are the lowest in living memory.
:)
Shoot, I can never say no to a merlot, especially if Tonito is serving and Karen is drinking it too.
blah...coulter is on Bill Maher.
Why do I get the feeling I'm walking into an empty room? And Lizzy- did you leave the lights on?
save me! i just tried to watch bill maher with my shouting husband. oy.
{Jen}! I haven't talked to you live for a long time.
Restless night tonight.
Oh, I have to get a neurotomy done on my back in the morning in Lancaster. Karen & I have to get up at 6AM. I haven't had one since February & I'm not looking forward to it. It's a painful experience.
Oh no, Chuck, I'm sorry to hear that. I'd be feeling restless too honey. You can't sleep, huh? I wish it wasn't painful. I guess it will help you pain-wise long term though?
Yeah. Thanks. It's a series of two procedures. Each side. The next one is on the 29th. The previous ones only lasted for three months, but I've gotta get some other stuff done now cos 3 of my discs have ruptured and just my luck, each one of them pinched a nerve as they herniated. You can imagine my attitude lately. ;)
I wouldn't have been too good in DC with you guys after all.
Well, {{Chuck}}, I'm being called away by hubby and friend, so I will just say bye for now and wish you luck tomorrow and hope you are getting some rest. Please email me and let me know how you are when you are able. You'll be in my thoughts.
Where are the pumpkin patterns that were on the site last year? Will those be added again?
Much like John Roberts, I think Harriet Miers is a fine choice for the Supreme Court. If Senator Reid believes in her then I'm inclined to trust his judgment -- and he is the Senate Minority Leader. If Mr. Bush intends to liberalize the admission standards to the federal bench and make the range of possible candidates open in the future then it is a wise choice. There may be viable candidates in the future which may well fill certain voids that may present themselves. In such as case it is not so wise to satiate conservatives' "dream" (as has been titled in this morning's Washington Post) of "shifting" or rather, "tyranizing" the court -- and the country, in its selection.
Regardless of whether Ms. Miers considers herself 'liberal' or 'conservative' we are talking about primarily the standards for admission to the "court of last resort." I believe her personal loyalty to this president will transcend the requirements of the Court, which the president surely realizes, much to the chagrin of hard-line conservatives; this is not Iran. True conservatives wish to preserve balance on the court as part of a general philosophy which seeks to maintain that the American Governmental process is, in its broadest sense, designed to disallow radical and fast change; it is "conservative" by nature, and supposed to allow only gradual change as a way of making sure it not only stays consistent to its purest roots, but also so that ideologues from either the Right or the Left (misspelled in the newspaper headlines with small "r" and "l") cannot effect too much change too quickly.
As Lincoln would have argued, the primary goal of the court is to hold the unity of the country intact, rather than strictly defining who is the "winner" and who is therefore (by default) the "loser;" American political culture does not allow for "losers" -- Americans win; that is the basis of being American.
It is a brilliant strategy by Democrats and more importantly Senator Harry Reid as the Senate Minority Leader for being the first to endorse this nominee. This is wise.
Hey {{Chuck}}, just stopped by before shutting down for the night.. good luck and be well tomorrow, I'll be thinking about you..
Goodnight and sweet dreams {{everybody}} still lurking around..
Though we must remember that since Republicans hold a majority of the Senate, if she is going to be the consensus choice of the Senate, it will be due solely to Republican support since they not only control the majority of the Senate, they also control the House and the White House (despite the unified Democratic cries of "shame, shame" led by Rep. Nancy Pelosi amidst strong-armed tactics by the now charged and dishonored former pest exterminator Tom DeLay)
Let us not stand idly by while the Republicans attempt to distract the nation. The noise machine is all over with Freeh's book and his anti Clinton allegations.
Freeh will be on 60 Minutes this Sunday and word has it CBS has refused to accept a Clinton surrogate to refute the allegations.
Let CBS know you are not happy with this nonsense.
Email: 60m@cbsnews.com
Good morning to all who follow! Still raining in SE Ohio.
Thanks {GiG}! I'll be fine. :) TL
good morning chuck. pouring like crazy here in the hudson valley. we were pretty much in a drought so this will help but the puppy/mud/shoe chewing situation may call for the old tranquilizer gun approach...just hope my wife is kind enough to shoot me in the ass instead of the head.
good luck with your back.
looks like the bush team is pretty much asleep at the switch on any type of disaster that might strike be it man made or a product of the gods. and bush is trying to talk the profit based pharmacutical companies into developing vaccines but they are crying that they need liability coverage and that they don't make their usual 500% profit on investment on vaccines so screw the people they will just have to twitch in the streets....nice. hey here is a new idea...have the government develop the vaccines using tax money taken from the pharma companies as a sort of tithe for operating in the old usa and benefiting from all its protections.
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A draft of the Bush administration's final plan for dealing with a likely Pandemic flu outbreak shows the United States is woefully unprepared for the potential disaster, The New York Times reported on Saturday.
The document says a large outbreak that began in Asia would be likely to reach the United States within "a few months or even weeks," and that more than 1.9 million people could die in the worst case scenario, the Times said.
If that occurred, according to the draft, hospitals would be overwhelmed, riots would engulf vaccination clinics and power and food would be in short supply, it said.
bush fiddles while we burn
Rain without guilt! It's nice to get rain that is not a consequence of a hurricane.
Too bad global warming is cheating us out of ice sickle trees.
hey, hey it looks like those damn commies in washington are taking this competence problem too far...i mean if we really start judging on competence we will have to tell bush to stay on the ranch and find ourselves someone of presidential qualities...i think kerry might be available.
Bush's Nominee for No. 2 Justice Post Withdraws
By ERIC LICHTBLAU
Published: October 8, 2005
WASHINGTON, Oct. 7 - President Bush's pick for the second-ranking position at the Justice Department abruptly withdrew his nomination Friday after facing weeks of questions over his ties to the lobbyist Jack Abramoff as well as his role in formulating policies for the treatment of suspected terrorists.
The nominee, Timothy Flanigan, a former deputy White House counsel who is now a senior lawyer at Tyco International, had been scheduled to face yet another round of questioning next week from senators who had grown skeptical about his nomination as deputy attorney general.
With the stalled nomination likely to drag on for weeks or longer, Mr. Flanigan told President Bush in his withdrawal letter on Friday that the president and Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales "deserve to have a full leadership team in place at the Department of Justice."
Of chief concern to Democrats and some Republicans was Mr. Flanigan's role at Tyco, where as its general counsel he oversaw Mr. Abramoff's work lobbying for the company, which is based in Bermuda, to retain its tax-exempt status. Critics of the nomination said they were also troubled by the fact that Mr. Flanigan had no experience as a criminal prosecutor and that he helped shape administration policy on the treatment of suspected terrorists in American custody, as deputy White House counsel under Mr. Gonzales.
Critics of the nomination said they were also troubled by the fact that Mr. Flanigan had no experience as a criminal prosecutor
i wrote post on hubris yesterday and today the washington post has a nice piece on this greek tragedy curse and its manifestation in the persons delay and frist (only for those taking the english advanced placement exam):
hubris of delay and frist
When rain freezes as it falls during cold weather the trees are sometimes coated with ice. It could happen this early if the seasons were as they were 50 years ago. This doesn't happen in upstate New York? Are you new to the area Gregg?
no dana i have been here since 1969. i guess the phrasing threw me or i haven't had coffee or something. i can't say i remember ice this early in october...of course the big ice storm in these parts in 1987 was just a bit later---toward the end of the month. i am a big enviornmentalist and so on and am also worried about looking out in the yard and seeing iguanas one day.
I doubt ice cycle trees exist. If there were an ice cycle, meaning ice ages and ages wihout ice were somehow connected and followed each other cyclicly, this would not be enough selective pressure to cause a change of flora. Other than trees don't grow well under glaciers.
It only takes a 4 degree drop in global temperature to cause an ice age. The trees in areas not covered with ice would be the same.
Help Wanted: Supreme Court Justice. No judicial experience required. On the job training provided.
PROGRESSIVE VALUES
Job requirements:
You must be from Texas.
YOu must be white.
You must be a woman.
You must be a virgin.
Morning, Gregg and Dana. Raining here, too. And, icicle trees do exist. Don't they, Greg?
The wonderful Maureen Dowd, courtesy of our Jen. click my name.
No rain at the moment Cyn. In fact, opened up the local news and our Governor has declared a drought diaster for 17 of the 39 counties in Washington. It is suppose to start raining today, which would be good as my hubby fertilized the lawn yesterday.
Crud! I was going to repair the cracks and seal my driveway after class today, but can't do that job in the rain.
I finished my test early, so thought I would catch up on the news here before the next lesson.
Please forgive. I still haven't figured out this new linky icon thingamajig.
http://www.uspoliticstoday.com/picture.php?img=uspol_20051007_1.gif
Enjoy the morning!
Good morning, all. No time to stick around this morning as the son has a busy day -- Religious Ed., followed by Cub Scouts, then we have to buy him a Cub Scout uniform and get his hair cut (he got teased by another student and wound up cutting his own hair, so we have to take him to get it blended in so it doesn't look quite so bad). But I wanted to share this in case you haven't seen it.
DeLie asks judge to toss Indictment.
Let's hope the judge isn't bought and paid for.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/04/AR2005100401150.html
House Of Cards
What do Cher, a Hollywood con man, a political rising star and an audacious felon have in common? Together they gave Bill and Hillary Clinton a night they'll never forget -- no matter how hard they may try
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=1194345
A California physician launched an effort to gather a million signatures to force a recall vote on Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who came to office two years ago following an unprecedented recall.
Kenneth Matsumura announced the campaign prior to submitting a petition to California's Secretary of State, who oversees elections.
"People are desperate, they're suffering, and I think the governor's going to have to listen," he told reporters, saying Schwarzenegger has hurt the poor and students.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9626146/
A powerful 7.6-magnitude earthquake near the Pakistan-India border Saturday reduced villages to rubble, triggered landslides and flattened an apartment building, killing hundreds of people in both nations. Pakistan’s army called the devastation “a national tragedy.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9626146/
I'll figure it out when I have time.
Gotta do lab now.
Posted by Firefly on October 7, 2005 at 06:14 PM
I'm all for it and I'd gladly move out of this damn red state to some nicer color of blue! Anyday!!! I've always considered the RED/BLUE divide as have others here (we are a minority) but thought I'd let you know there are those of us who agree with you.
I ran a poll a while back and there were only a handful that chose the divide. And like you said that would be fine if we thought we could keep them from destroying the rest of the planet in the mean time. If we cut their numbers maybe they'd get the hint. I don't know.
Just saying.
also current votes are below:
Which BUSH screw up tops them ALL (so far)
Answers Votes Percent
1.
The Treason of the VP's aide, Karl Rove, etc. 2 9%
2.
Appointing Harriet as a Supreme Judge 1 5%
3.
Katrina/FEMA delays 5 23%
4.
Plummeting dollar and sky rocketing debt 3 14%
5.
The indictments and pending trouble for fellow Demons Delay, Frist, etc. 0 0%
6.
Not planning properly for the Iraq invasion. 11 50%
7.
Ignoring his base. 0 0%
Like ships in the night!
{{hugs to you Marsh}} :-)
Adios!
Since we were on the subject of how to win new voters, one over at a Yahoo News board inadvertently gave me just that opportunity.
I think that the posts in response that he's getting, not just mine, are a real opportunity to try to figure out amongst ourselves what the Democratic message is.
Hahaha! Speaking of POLLS!
Bush... His Troubles Get Worse...
CBS POLL:
Country On Wrong Track: 69%...
Bush Job Approval: 37%...
Approve Of Iraq Handling: 32%...
AP Poll: “Politically, This Is Very Serious For The President”...
Posted by BlueinIdaho on October 7, 2005 at 06:18 PM
Posted by Jen on October 7, 2005 at 06:19 PM
Blue:
I don't recall ever saying you wouldn't have the freedom to stay.
Incidentally, in my map, northern Idaho, the part that starts where the state narrows (I think you know what I mean) IS a blue state. I'm not sure what part of it you live in or if moving from one part of Idaho to another is just as objectionable to you as moving from, say, Idaho to California.
BOTH:
To let you know, I experienced and was a part of conflict in the past on this board, and I saw no reason to make any kind of issue of being "back" or to create a melodrama out of it. I saw no reason to even inadvertently create an invitation to anyone here to pick it up right where it left off, because I know how people get on blogs and boards. I have no shame in being myself, no shame in my ideas, and I am perfectly fine with you knowing it's me. Hi, guys, nice to formally be able to say hey.
Having said that, I will say that Blue's post to Jen about me is more of the same disrespect for the ideas of other posters just because you don't like them (the poster or the post, take your pick) that I have seen here in the past. Come on, Democrats are better than that, aren't we?
Jen you don't have to want to discuss this with me, but you can't AND SHOULDN'T WANT to stop me from discussing it with others. That is nobody's place here.
Thank you Jen, my family is still struggling, but doing a little better. At least we're no longer living in a hotel. If we could get the hell of Texas, we'd be substantially more comfortable. We're working on it, but just like before, it's hard to get a job back home without actually being there, and with kids, hard to go back there without having a job.
Posted by Dawnelle on October 8, 2005 at 10:51 AM
Dawnelle, what concerns me is that we might place too much stock in taking down this president (which we must, but...) and not enough in forming our message clearly and getting people to back our ideas instead of those of the Republicans. It would be very easy for the right to say, "Okay, we had the wrong man, but the right ideas. We still believe in X,Y and Z and the Democrats still have the wrong vision for America," and still get people to vote for them.
Posted by Dawnelle on October 8, 2005 at 10:07 AM
Thanks for letting me know that everyone doesn't think I'm insane.
Actually, I first put this idea forward on the John Kerry boards right after the election, and I got very strong responses one way or the other. Yes, I a few people felt like Jen and Blue do, and quite a few were ready to pack up and move. At least I think people should calm the heck down and discuss the entire idea before sticking their fingers in their ears and saying "la-la-la-la-I-can't-hear-yooooo." But that's okay, I am by no means a single-issue...candidate. Damn, I wish I could be a candidate. Unfortunately, decisions I made in my younger days have made that completely impossible.
Which blue state are you living in?
Which blue state are you living in?
Posted by Firefly on October 8, 2005 at 11:12 AM
D-OH, I meant, which RED state are you living in? Wishful thinking on my part.
>>>"According to a new BBC, 3-part, documentary called: Israel and the Arabs: Elusive Peace President Bush claimed to have been anointed by God to go into Afghanistan, Iraq and get the Palestinian's their own state."
No, it wasn't "according to a BBC documentary". Some palestinian terrorist by the name of Naabil Shaath made the claim while being interviewed by the BBC. Liberals quoting terrorists. Too funny. More proof that believing a Liberal will just make you stupider.
But if we have to quote terrorists, then allow me to quote Abu Mazen who was at the same meeting and claims Bush said: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state." That's not quite the Blues Brothers style "I'm on a mission from gaad" quote you Libs are passing off as news.
Good Afternoon All!
If you haven't seen this article on the AP/IPSOS poll, you may find it interesting . . .
. .
Click Here
The lesson from the last election was that the 'I hate Bush' vote is not big enough to win anything even coupled with traditional Democrat voters et al. To keep on and on and on trying to appeal to that minority will get the party nowhere slowly. Forget Bush and start telling people why they should vote Democrat not why the shouldn't vote GOP.
>>>"the 'I hate Bush' vote is not big enough to win anything even coupled with traditional Democrat voters et al."
Not only is that vote not big enough, the "hate Bush" phenomena actually turns moderate people off to your party. You actually LOSE votes hating Bush (you lost mine).
Hi Firefly, I'm glad to hear things are improving for you and your family. I hope that you are able to find a job in New York where you long to be. I tried the first time you were on the blog as Nikki to be friendly to you and offer help to you from a friend of mine who lives in your area. I still wish you the best.
Just to set the record straight, I didn't try to stop you from discussing anything with others. I expressed my opinions. I am entitled to say what I think and you are entitled to agree, disagree or ignore. That's the way it works. You are of course entitled to say whatever you like as long as the moderators don't object, but I am also entitled to protest if I think you're wrong, especially when you are commenting on my opinions. We are all entitled to that.
That said, I didn't indicate last night that I recognized you for any reason other than I was trying to find out if my hunch was right. Welcome back and I hope that you enjoy yourself.
Posted by Ex-Lib on October 8, 2005 at 11:55 AM
That's his story and he's sticking to it.
http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=2051722005
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1586923,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4322228.stm
>>>"That's his story and he's sticking to it."
It's an old story too. I think it goes back about 2 years. It's being recycled by the MSM for some reason or other, probably because of the Meiers nomination.
Speaking about the pandemic of avian flu, what I recall is a lot of the flu outbreaks is over the import of geese and ducks. Years ago, there was some studies done and for some reason folks on the west coast were who bought the majority of these. The flu started from handling or under cooked fowl and then spread. Nowhere in Bushs' report did they mention this. Maybe Dr. Dean or another doctor can chime in here and let us all know if that is still considered. It looks to me that banning the import of these fowl would be one of the first things to do.
Posted by Jen on October 8, 2005 at 12:14 PM
Jen, in the past, you did assume a position of trying to stop me from speaking on that topic. You did it publicly, you did it privately, you did it and felt free to do it. Last night, your initial reaction was hostile enough, that I feared we might be headed back to that. Today you are not doing that, which I appreciate very much.
You have every right to disagree, and I have always told you that. But there is a difference between open-mindedly listening to the topic like you listen to many other topics here and then saying, "I don't agree with that because..." and allowing your point to be proven or at least argued to be wrong, and things like:
"Speaking as a blue girl in a red state, I'm sick and tired of this talk about splitting the states up. For one thing, it's completely ridiculous and will NEVER happen. Plus, all states are a shade of purple and if Democrats worked harder, maybe they'd be a bluer shade of purple."
And this:
"Hey Jen. Give it up. Some people will bang their heads against a brick wall no matter what logic is presented to them."
Frankly, you're so hateful of the topic that I think you've considered the arguments for all of about five seconds, which is your right. I see lots of ideas here I just dislike so much, I choose to bypass even dealing with them. It doesn't much qualify you to show me the incredible disrespect of saying that I'm given to adopting completely ridiculous ideas and then, as Blue would say, clinging to them no matter what logic is presented to me.
I give respect. I ask for respect.
Now, if you don't mind, it seems that every time I bring this topic up, your reaction is so intense that I'm compelled to defend my right to speak, and in so doing, I seem like zealot on the topic. I really am not, I'm being backed into that corner. I would appreciate if you'd not do that.
If you don't like the topic, ignore it and let me discuss it with people who agree, or people who don't, but aren't so threatened by hearing it discussed in detail, in the middle of discussing everything else I discuss, which includes many things.
I'm kind of wondering. If we don't drill or mine (oil shale) for oil where is it going to come from in the quantities it is needed today?
If the oil and refinery companies do not do the job who will?
Does any one here know what a disproportionate effect the rise in oil prices has on the poor?
More supply coupled with many suppliers = lower prices. No one has yet repealed that law. The illegal drug market is more than proof enough.
If helping the poor means also helping oil companies increase supples I'm all for it.
In any case I think the Republicans are very vulnerable on the drug war. It is looking more and more like the drug users are self medicators. They have problems like PTSD, ADD/ADHD, bipolar etc. This is a national scandal that the drug, alcohol, and tobacco companies are covering up. Did you know cigarettes are an anti-depressant?
Here is what a doctor said on the subject:
Grand Rounds
And by the way, in response to what CYN_NY said:
Don't speak for all of us, we do not all feel that we need Republicans AT ALL. I think we'd have a much more progressive, positive, creative, intelligent, happy nation without them.
I am however willing to work with the REASONABLE ones.
NYS has a Republican governor and he's horrible, he needs to go. I am aghast that the Republicans had their convention in our city, which will always be my home, and given everything they've done, there is no more important time for the Democratic city to send the message that a Republican is not going to lead our city or state if we can help it.
NYC has a Republican mayor who is Democratic in many things he does and who used to be a Democrat. If you saw yesterday, I sent him an e-mail telling him we'd be happy to have him back.
as long as we are discussing dumb shit the dumb shit said how about him telling falwell ( according to falwell, a well known god-guy) that there would be no casualties in the iraq adventure prior to the beginning of the mess we now seem a bit.....lost in?
oops, i forgot i am going to alienate voters by bashing bush...lets see....he has a really nice bike?
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 01:38 PM
Because of those rising oil prices that happened during the Carter administration, Carter got up a lot of money for coal gassification and liquification. The pilot project plant was built about 15 miles from here at Ashland Oil. As soon as Regan got in office, he cut off the funding for the project. This gave rise again to oil which is what the republicans want. People hollered about the rising gas costs under Carter, but they continued right on under Regan plus some.
Firefly,
You must love your enemies if you are ever going to have a chance to teach them the error of their ways.
I'm one of the Republican leaners who is not at all happy about a lot of the Republican Party - did I mention the drug war? When you say you hate even some Republicans it makes you look small. The Democrats used to be bigger hearted than that. Speaking of bigger hearted - the Dems used to be for liberation from tyrants by any means necessary. Wha hoppened. OK Bush strated this lousy war. Don't we owe it to the people whose back yard we messed up to fix it?
Once upon a time the Democrats stood for responsibility. Once upon a time I used to be a solid Democrat. Well in this last election Obama got my vote. Kerry did not.
hey this is news to me and i love it. seems libby of cheney's office shot his mouth off that he had given miller the ok to disregard his confidentiality agreement with her so old fitzgerald (could he be an elliot richardson of our time?) "suggested"...ha,ha,ha...that he put that in writing to her and voila! the party really got started didn't it?
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney got a push from a prosecutor before telling New York Times reporter Judith Miller that he wanted her to testify in a probe into the outing of a CIA operative whose diplomat husband was an Iraq-war critic.
The prosecutor's encouragement, in a letter obtained by Reuters, has prompted some lawyers in the case to question whether Cheney's aide was acting completely voluntarily when he gave Miller the confidentiality waiver she had insisted on.
The investigation has spotlighted free-press issues and the Bush administration's aggressive efforts to defend its Iraq policy against critics.
Miller maintains she only agreed to testify -- after spending 85 days in jail -- because she received what she describes as a personal and voluntary waiver of confidentiality from her source. She dismissed an earlier waiver by Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis Libby, as coerced.
But Libby offered a new waiver that Miller accepted after he received a September 12 letter in which the prosecutor, investigating a possible White House role in the leak, repeatedly encouraged him to do just that.
"I would welcome such a communication reaffirming Mr. Libby's waiver," prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald told Libby's lawyer, Joseph Tate.
"It would be viewed as cooperation with the investigation," Fitzgerald said.
excuse me would you mind putting that in writing? uhhhhh...no ( gulp ) sir, no problemo
i am gonna start loving the bejesus out of the republicans just as soon as they are in jail. might even volunteer to go teach a macrame course or something....rove is gonna want to decorate his cell with some nice plant hangings don't you think?
Gregg,
I hope they put Rove, Libby, and Delay in one of the rough federal pens where a guy named Hellraiser will make them his bitches. I persoanlly would like to send them some Preperation H.
Will,
I'm an engineer in the energy field. Aircraft electrical systems. Nuclear Reactor Operator in the Navy. Currently a very big fan (har) of wind power. Solar - not so much.
I keep up with the energy field. What happened in the Carter era does have some simularity to what you say. What happened was that it became OPEC policy to price oil low to keep competition off the market. Higher oil prices would have got us hybrids 10 years sooner. The Saudis admitted as much. The Rocky Mountain Institute has a quote by Shiek Yammani - a former Saudi Oil Minister.
Not to fear, production costs that ran in the $20 - $40 a bbl range, through the advances of technology have been brought down to the 10 to $15 a bbl range.
It is not just a matter of what we can do. It is also a matter of is it worth it?
None the less it takes time to start a new production process and learn how to operate it. The oil is there. The question is how soon can we get the equipment installed. Once we get all the environmental objects answered, say 5 to 7 years, we can get started. Then you get operational experience. Then you start plant #2. Is this any way to cover our current needs?
True we could live without oil. However, that would cause the deaths of 5 billion people.
there may be a middle ground between total dependence on oil and the extermination of the human species.
and if our leaders weren't such assholes we could be in much better shape thirty years or so after the early seventies oil crunch than we are now. but they were and continue to be assholes so we are in deep doo,doo.
msimon you seem to overlook the fact that even the most timid attempts to reinforce conservation and the development of alternative energy sources were completely debased and destroyed by reagan and those who came after with the very weak exception of some stuff gore pushed clinton to sign off on toward the end of their reign.
will, i don't wish jail rape on anyone, even these clowns. just sitting in the cell thinking about how they got there for a few decades will do it for me.
>>>"oops, i forgot i am going to alienate voters by bashing bush...lets see....he has a really nice bike?
You must have that confused with John Kerry's bicycle, the one that cost him $8,000, and which he fell off in front of the news media. Luckily, his hair broke the fall so thankfully he wasn't seriously injured. In fact, when the police arrived, Kerry was well enough to give conflicting reports to the officers about what happened."
gregg,
How kind of you.
Have you noticed the folks in the middle quietly edging away?
The Rove obsession is silly. It is reactive. It keeps you from thinking about how to capture issues.
Think about this one> In Montanna, a very Republican State, med pot got more votes than Bush. This is a clue.
Stop fighting people and start fighting issues.
Now abot med pot.
MSimon,
The plan at the time was to run a pipeline down to the gulf and from it supply power plants and refineries with the liquified coal. The gassification portion was to help with the natural gas costs. Years ago, they did make what was known as coal oil. However after finding the natural crude oil fields, they quit doing it. Right now, they could use coal or shale, then extract oil from it.
Right now Argentina is running a huge number of cars on ethanol with a high amount of alchohol in it, or pure alchohol. They make this from large sugar cane crops. This could be done here using that or corn if they would do it. Once you make the switch, the costs eventually come down to manufacture it. That was the idea of the coal gassification and liquification process too.
MSimon,
Those alternative energy sources, you speak of...what is happening with the wind turbine towers that skirt the horizon on Route 5 in Stanislaus County, CA.
hey kids cut our oil consumption by like 5% ( maybe by eliminating a trip to the pedicurist and one to mcdonalds per week) and the price per barrel drops like a stone...just saying...
the silly, miniscule, tenny, wenny rove problem demonstrates that these crowd is capable of turning against their own intelligence agents to protect bush after he has lied to the country to get us into a meaningless and costly war. if this stuff is not important in the "big picture" or doesn't in itself lead to the identification of some "issues" worth exploring for the next round of elections i am not sure what does.
now come on for every cup of herbal tea kerry has consumed bush has crashed one kind of vehicle of another...
PeppermintLizzy,
They were talking about putting up a bunch of those windmills in West Virginia. They were going to put them on top of a mountain there where the wind blew all the time. I know Sen. Byrd was working to get the money for it but I'm not sure he ever did.
gregg,
No one can force you to to waste resources. Generally economies do what is economical. The Saudis lowered peices so that conservation didn't pay. It was their policy. It worked. They in fact subsidized the American economy. Good for us.
Now that we have a big habit they are jacking us. Since it now pays things will change. The demand for hybrids is way up.
There was no point in taking the steps you suggested because they wouldn't pay. They would have been a tax on the economy. And when the economy hurts those at the bottom get smacked hardest.
The advantage we have now is ten or twenty years of material improvements and upgraded production processes so that it will actually take less investment for the advances you want than it would have taken 20 years ago. This is a plus for the economy. Think of the advances in computer chips and software alone.
There is no need to panic.
BTW should you care to put your money where your mouth is I have a number of designs with business plans in the energy area.
I have my e-mail link here
consumption of heating oil in the northeast dropped so fast the distributers were going under like dolphins after each "disruption" in the seventies. thinking we are powerless to do anything but up production and endure all the problems and rip offs that come with that approach is just defeatism.
also if you voted for bush you are a long way from the middle of anything. but if you voted for him why did you let keyes down? after all he is just bush without the backers...
Will,
Money for wind is not hard to come by these days. Congress passed a five year extension of the producrion tax credit. The wind market is booming. America will install about 1 nuke equivalent of wind this years. More next year.
The most important thing to do to move things along is to make the governmental and electrical intertie efforts easier. The problems are less technical than contractual. Ang getting permits.
and i am not a venture capitalist. you should try bloomberg's blog if he has one....hell he has put 50 million into his own mayoral campaign so maybe he'd throw you a few hundred thousand dollars...and i don't open a link if it might come from a fink...just sayin...
been fun but i guess i have to take the dog out as the rain is not letting up at all and the dog is getting crazy.
I LOVE it.!!! Hope Delay brings Rope on a Soap when they take him off to the Big House!!
When I asked two Texas attorneys who have been following the case in the news, as well as on their respective local grapevines (but neither has insider information), I got a unanimous opinion that Earle's second indictment was timely. As one put it, "The reason DeLay is pissed is that Earle moved faster than they thought he could. He found a spanking new grand jury, and he had a new indictment within hours. That suggests to me that Ronnie Earle has some good evidence." "Those Austin grand jurors usually aren't push-overs," he told me.
This attorney continued, "It is my understanding that the reason Earle's office moved so fast was because the day the motion to dismiss arrived was the last day under the Texas statute of limitations to charge DeLay with money-laundering." So Earle got the second indictment just in the nick of time. (Incidentally, the same source reminded me that DeLay's associates, and now alleged co-conspirators, John D. Colyandro and James W. Ellis, had also been previously indicted for money laundering.)
In short, it seems that Earle's money laundering case has been poked and probed, and found to be solid
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/100805Y.shtml
Good Afternoon everyone. I've been trying to get on the blog from my home for 3 weeks. I can use it at work but not at home. I finally wrote to Jesse/Josh and I think they might have fixed it. So I'm in!
I'm so Po'd about what happened last night. Those asswipe republicans will do anything - I mean anything to keep their power. I pray everynight that Delay goes to jail. I do a visual on him wearing orange..
Sorry to change the subject but found this interesting:
If you want to have some fun with the rapture gang ask them this one simple question and watch them do a quick meltdown.
The bible speaks extensively of the birth of Jesus. In fact, the life of Jesus at birth up until around the age of 12 is written in several chapters. But after the age of 12, he does a disappearing act. What happened to him during his young childhood and through his young adulthood? What did he do? Where do he go? Nothing is written about him until he appears later around the age of 32 or 34 when he began to preach.
Around the year 553AD, the Council of Nicea called all the priests in for a big meeting. During that meeting many chapters of the bible were struck down. They took out these chapters because the church wanted more control over the masses of people.
Ask them if “born again” hasn’t been misinterpated by organized religion and that the true meaning actually is to be reincarnated?
I’ve had a lot of fun with this. The answers vary from “well, he was busy” to “they forgot to include these in the bible”.
Enjoy….
gregg,
I can't abide theocons. If you look at the Illinois results I was not alone. Bush did 18 or 18 points better than Keyes.
As to why no Kerry? The communists post war killed 100,000 and chased 500,000 to sea. Kerry said cut and run in 'Nam was a good idea. I thought so too at the time. I have since (counting the cost) changed my mind.
I see no purpose in leaving the Iraqis to the tender mercies of the throat slitters. Been there, done that. The dead are on my concience.
Well any way. I'm reminded of Mayor Daley the great when asked why his particular favored candidate didn't win an election he always answered "Because he did not get enough votes." So the question is: how do you fix that? By alienating the votes you need? I hope it is working out well for you.
I watched this outrageous action on CSpan yesterday, with the Democrats trying to demand that this speaker put an end to the vote, but he would not ! Write letters to Editors, people.
"Once again, on an issue of critical importance to the American people, the Republican Majority has chosen to trample the democratic process and manipulate the outcome of a vote on the Floor of the House of Representatives, after the vote was completed."
"This is an unethical subversion of our democracy. The Republican Leadership has brought shame on themselves and the House of Representatives."
"Today, we all see how the Republican culture of corruption has destroyed the credibility of this government and directly impacts the lives of each and every American."
Rep. Mike Simpson (R - ID), Speaker Pro - Tempore of the House, held open a five - minute vote on HR 3893, the Gasoline for America's Security Act, for over forty minutes. For nearly all of that time, Republicans were unable to produce a majority vote in favor of the bill. Rep. Simpson repeatedly stated that he was using his discretion to hold the vote open until all Members had voted. But as soon as Republicans had gained the needed number of votes to pass the Act, he closed the vote. The final vote total was 212 to 210.
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 01:55 PM
MS,I don't mind if people give me moralistic lessons as long as they can prove that I said the thing that would suggest the need for the lesson and as long as it's coming from what I actually said, rather than a lopsided interpretation of what I said.
Can you do this?
Furthermore, I was unclear from your post....your problem with Kerry was...?
K_i_I,
Praying for Republicans to go to jail is not a program.
You are actually helping the Rs by eliminating their dead wood.
Posted by PamB on October 8, 2005 at 03:05 PM
I watched the whole disgusting process. Then I listened to Republicans and centrist Democrats call C-SPAN afterwards and call US negative and berate Nancy Pelosi.
And some here wonder why I think that the best thing to do is just let the two ideologies go their separate ways.
Oh well
Democrats accused President George W. Bush and his Republican allies in Congress of an "information blackout" to keep the public in the dark about recent military and political setbacks in Iraq.
With recent debate over Supreme Court nominations and hurricane relief efforts consuming Congress for the past several weeks, Democrats have sought to refocus attention on Iraq, where a referendum is looming on a draft constitution, and where former dictator Saddam Hussein is due to stand trial shortly thereafter.
"We should be talking about this every single day," said Richard Durbin, the number two Democrat in the US Senate.
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/100705F.shtml
I think, as I have stated before, that this whole thing with DeLay reminds me so much of when the last crook was in the white house, Nixon (a republican). The whole feel of all of the corruption slimming it's way around DeLay, Frist and Bush is just like it was many years ago. The one thing that I think will happen is when one of these creatures goes down, he'll sing like a bird bringing the rest with him. They are so spinless!
The administration is still trying to recover politically from Katrina. The hurricane was not just a bad stretch that could be cured by a promise of federal aid and a demonstration of presidential concern. The hurricane showed that despite four years of spinning, America is still unprepared for a catastrophe. It raised major questions about the caliber of people with whom Mr. Bush surrounds himself. Ever since the terrorist attacks, the main thing Americans have wanted from Washington is a sense of safety. That takes more than hyperalertness to suicide bombing threats, important as that is. No matter what the terrorists are up to, it is not possible to feel safe if the federal government does not appear to know what it is doing on so many different levels
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/100705J.shtml
Will,
Let us know what you find out about those windmills. Peace!
White House spokesman said: "The few need to heed the wishes of the people," referring to the religious who run the country (in Iran).
President Bush and the influence of Evangelicals in his government.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/jesus/
Firefly,
I have no moral lesson for you. It was mine alone. All I can say is what affected me.
I saw Kerry going down the same path as he did re: 'Nam. Cut and run. I didn't want to go there.
We owe the Iraqis what we should have given the Vietnamese. Defence against tyranny. America let the South Vietnamese down. A sorry episode. When they asked for help our Democrat Congress of the time refused. It was a popular sentiment. I favored that course of action as did many others. I regret it.
The lesson is for me alone. Take from it what you will.
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 03:16 PM
The difference is Iraq never asked for our help and in fact many seem to think that their lives are worse as long as we stay.
Story time:
Last night my husband and I went out to eat at one of the Country Clubs in our area. We enjoyed a nice evening of wine and good food. We were just about finished and was going to have an after dinner drink when the head leader of the republican party entered the room and took a table next to ours. My husband became quite nervous as he knows how I love a good stare down. Finally, after a few minutes had passed, the repuke looked at me and said good evening, a conversation developed. I kept egging this guy on but he wouldn't take the bait. His wife almost did when I talked about how great Madison was because of the blueness of it. I think it went well until my husband and I got into the car to head home. My husband said, I was watching and I found it very funny, he said. The wife of the repuke was kicking her husband under the table... poor man probably can't walk today!
As to why no Kerry? The communists post war killed 100,000 and chased 500,000 to sea. Kerry said cut and run in 'Nam was a good idea. I thought so too at the time. I have since (counting the cost) changed my mind.
Well, the fact that my brother and some friends got to come home before they got killed, was reason enough for me to cheer the decision! I think 53,000 American troops were enough, don't you?
And for Iraq, Give them the money for reconstruction! Let's face it, bro, there is going to be a civil war there, whether we are there or not. Maybe some other countries and Nato and UN will help in the security issues, if we just get ourselves out of there. You know what an insurgent is? It is someone in their own country, fighting an occupation! If we are not occupying it, how much of that will end?
No, hanging around Iraq is not the answer. The reason this neo con administration wants to, is they are silently building 14 bases around Iraq's borders, as well as large Satellites facing Syria, etc. Don't be pulled into their lies.
He is keeping us Safer??? I think NOT !
Four years after the first bio-terrorist attack, the FBI has still not discovered the perpetrator and its principal suspect has turned against his accusers.
In a solemn speech yesterday on the progress of the fight against terrorism, George W. Bush omitted an episode - even though it was the anniversary of same. Four years ago, on October 5, 2001, Bob Stevens, a journalist at the Boca Raton Sun in Florida, became the first victim of anthrax in the United States. Two series of letters poisoned with the dried bacillus had been sent to the Sun, to the New York Post and to the NBC television station in New York, as well as to Democratic Senators Tom Daschle and Patrick Leahy in Washington. They were to trigger one of the vastest investigations ever conducted by the federal police (FBI) and the postal inspection service.
Dropping the price of gas.
We all know that the oil companies are jacking up the prices (raping america) and none of the politicians will do anything because of their campaign funding. According to a UC economist we can cause a drop in the price of gas if about 1 million people were to only fill their gas tanks half way for a 2-week period. If done it would take a couple of days for the lower demand to start to show up and the supply side to show an abundance. And it would take about 6 months to a year for it to balance out again. At least about a year of cheaper gas.
Firefly,
The two sides are going their separate ways and Dems are losing elections.
I think the Republican base is now 5 points larger than the Dem base. 33 to 28.
The Dems need a bigger share of the middle to win. That means moving to the right. Or exploiting issuses where the Rs have a disadvantage. Did I mention med pot. More popular than Bush in Montana? Why aren't the Dems out compassioning the so called compassionate Rs?
Re: Posted by Kathy_in_Indiana on October 8, 2005 at 03:22 PM
Funny ... !
I am terribly sick at heart of the greedy, lying, bigotted bloodsuckers; especially the kind who come here a pretend to be Democrats ...
George W. Bush lied.
1,953 boys died.
George W. Bush has blood on his hands.
Sincerely,
As far as the cut and run in Irag, if people are so gun ho rambo style, why not bring the draft back and go in in force. As it is now, they're picking us off one by one.
Of course, that wouldn't be such a great idea. Some of the repuks kids would probably have to go against their will... the next protest in DC would be 10 times as large and the dumbass in the white house probably wouldn't like that too much...
Do you think that DeLay and Frist could be butt buddies in jail?
msimon, if i am not mistaken between us, the russians, the north vietnamese, the south vietnames, the cambodians and whatever other players you want to name millions of people were killed in the decades long southeast asia adventure. you think that by investing another few million vietnam would better off than it is today?
saddam offered to go into exile before we started bombing. we could have taken him up on it and worked with the united nations to try to take over the material and human infrastructure of the place and just maybe have succeeded in transitioning it to a democracy instead of the breeding ground for generations of terrorists it now is.
i identify with your remorse and sadness as to what has become of so much of our world but i don't think it is due to a lack of projection of american military power.
wait a minute msimon are you suggesting the way to move to the middle is to support legalizing POT!! did i just get trolled paul?
anyhow gonna go see the constant gardener. first movie for us in months.
Krag,
If the oil companies are raping America why would they let a little thing like supply and demand bother them?
Pray tell why gasoline isn't $5 a gallon? Have the oil companies lost the taste for rape?
Paul - no matter, it's the same guy who uses different names all of the time. I think last time he was in here he used Madonna. I think it's funny, he can't post like that at the repuke site. And as we have said in here many times, as Bush's numbers keep falling, if that's possible to go any lower, they'll be in here like stink on **it because they're scared. Just block the little bastards out.
The Dems need a bigger share of the middle to win. That means moving to the right.
MSimon, I think if you take a recount today, you will find Demos should definetly NOT move to the right. Looks like the Right is unhappy with the Right. Let's not pretend to be something we are not !
WASHINGTON - Evangelicals, Republican women, Southerners and other critical groups in President Bush's political coalition are worried about the direction the nation is headed and disappointed with his performance, an AP-Ipsos poll found.
That unease could be a troubling sign for a White House already struggling to keep the Republican Party base from slipping over Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers, Gulf Coast spending projects, immigration and other issues
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051007/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_ap_poll
eeeekkkk!!!! now i have to take a kerosene bath AGAIN! will report back on the movie.bbl.
PamB - I just wanted you to know that a few days ago, you put up a post that was awsome. I used a few parts of it, along with my thoughts and used it in a letter to a national newspaper. I'll keep you posted if it gets published.
Got to run, hot date tonight with hubby. Keep up the good work people... I smell some more indictments coming soon to a republican near you!
Keep on Rockn'
Posted by PamB on October 8, 2005 at 03:22 PM
Hi Pam, my family is still living through the impact of Vietnam. My father who served in Vietnam is suffering more now from what happened to him and what he saw than at any other time in our lives. As a child my father seemed to just have a blank page that should have been full of memories of Vietnam. He came home and quickly lost himself in drugs and alcohol and even after he became sober in the mid 80s it never seemed as if it was more than just a trip to the jungle for him. But now 30 years later the nightmares of what happened keep him awake every night. He relives being blown out of his bunker by a bomb and surviving a helicopter crash after it was shot down, he was finally told by his commander he had to go home because he had seen too much after his bunkmate killed himself in the middle of the night.
War is a terrible sacrifice we ask of our soldiers and should only be done when the situation is dire, I cannot pretend to only 'dislike' GWB when he has callously asked our soldiers to make this sacrifice on his lies.
(my question: "why are we letting them (Administration and both parties in Congress) get away with so much?")
Haliburton: history of a morally bankrupt company
The biggest private contractor for American forces in Iraq
Haliburton is charging US taxpayers $3/gal and paying $.25/gal. Auditors also found another potential Halliburton overcharge of $67 million for dining halls in Iraq. Now Haliburton got a blank check for Katrina reconstruction and Bush lifts the 1931 Davis-Bacon Act, which requires federal contractors to pay at least the average regional wage. Now Haliburton and other contractors close to politicians can hire undocumented workers and pay less than minimum wage and no benefits. If they get hurt on the job, too bad.
Pentagon Audit Questions Halliburton's Costs in Iraq
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A35138-2005Mar14.html
Halliburton Doing Business With the 'Axis of Evil'
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A58298-2005Feb2.html
The United States had concluded that Iraq, Libya, and Iran supported terrorism and had imposed strict sanctions on them. Yet during Cheney’s tenure at Halliburton the company did business in all three countries.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040216fa_fact
The Prez could not have gone to war, tax cuts for oil companies and the wealthy, etc... without Congress's approval (both parties).
MSimon, the oil companies do not have total control over the price of gas and oil. Also part of the scheme are OPEC, oil/gas commodities and futures traders, and you and me.
gregg,
No. Legalizing pot is not popular. Legalizing pot for medical use is. Do not be confused. Study the poling. Med pot at minimum gets 55% support. In Crimson Red State Montana it got 62% support.
You might find this fact interesting. Pot has a reputation as an anti-anxiety drug. Anti-anxiety drugs are a $42 bn a year market. Now look at the funding list for "A Partnership for a Drur Free America". Big pharma markets stimulants for ADD/ADHD. Want to guess why there is a big meth scare?
Teens, Drugs, and anxiety.
Or read what a doctor and a drug counselor say:
A well known secret
Kristen - that was such a moving post. Your father is my age and I too have watched as men my age have blocked out what happened back then. I think that is why I too, am so disgusted with this creature in the white house and his lies.
Give my thoughts to your dad. He is a brave man.
oops, i forgot i am going to alienate voters by bashing bush...lets see....he has a really nice bike? Posted by gregg on October 8, 2005 at 01:48 PM
Yeah gregg, you better watch it! You're going to alienate Republican voters. They can't stand it when his crimes are exposed.
"I saw Kerry going down the same path as he did re: 'Nam. Cut and run. I didn't want to go there.
We owe the Iraqis what we should have given the Vietnamese. Defence against tyranny. America let the South Vietnamese down. A sorry episode. When they asked for help our Democrat Congress of the time refused. It was a popular sentiment. I favored that course of action as did many others. I regret it."
What's funny is that you seem to have completely spaced on the fact that John Kerry is a decorated war veteran. He fought. He stood up. And in my opinion, he earned the right to object to that war. Does it mean nothing to you that your new party is majoritively liars and crooks? Do you not understand their political maneuverings and how manipulative of the system, of the voters they have been? I don't understand how any intelligent, self-respecting, ethical American can be a Republican at this point.
I respect your right to your opinion, but I disagree with almost EVERYTHING you say. Vehemently.
It is really faulty thinking to say that because the Vietnam experience was painful, that all wars are created equal. The war was started on a lie, perpetuated on more lies, ventured into without a plan and reconstruction has been HALTED for budgetary reasons. What do you think that is going to create in the hearts of the Arab people? The government they build is a theocracy, not a democracy, proving they just weren't ready for this, and the women in the government have been pushed aside by the men. One was assassinated.
I'll be very honest, first, I haven't seen the data suggesting the Republican's "market share" but I will tell you this: I do agree that we need to speak to issues that more people can relate to so that that they realize that the Democrats represent them better, but medical marijuana is that issue? What?
Second of all, I think the only thing my party can do is to stand loudly for the things WE stand for and to be willing to get a little fired up about it. The GOP has so successfully hung damned if we do, damned if we don't on us, that our leaders are afraid to speak. If you read the history of this party on THIS website, you see no mention of labor unions whatsoever. That does not show much knowledge of the post-Civil War history of this party. Our party leaders stood by while the AFL-CIO fragmented and said they would not necessarily ally with the Democrats anymore. They're in for a rude awakening if they think the Republicans will EVER support them, leaving the American worker where exactly?
Marc,Re' Tom Delay and penalties if acting as de facto leader:none.What makes you think there would be?It's not against the law for Delay to be Leader,it's simply against the Republican House rules.
Gregg;I knew someone who spelled his name that way in hs.We called it contrived uniqueness.Why don't you drop a "g" and see if your life improves.Oh,and greggggg-what are your views on nuclear power?
Cyn:unsuppored quotes can't necessarily be accepted as evidence even if they make you happy.
Marc;it seems increasingly likely the indictments against Delay are in more trouble than Delay.
timbarnwell;maybe you should watch the program before you decide it's untrue.However,if you feel that something with which you might disagre should ipso facto be protested...,well who am I?
Firefly,the work giving the theoretical basis for parallel universes was Hugh Everett's in about 1957.It's a good explanation of why diffraction shadows appear when only a single photon is emitted in a grid with one opening.I don't have the math to actually speak with authority on it.Perhaps greggggggg?
Chuck,re' your lower back pain.Lidoderm patches are somewhat effective and compounding pharmacies can mix a topical like ketoprofen/capsaicin/flexeril that has a semi-good track record.You'll need a 'scrip for this stuff.
msimon;interesting and informative post.
gregggggg.....ggg.Merck et al have just released the info ontheir vaccine for HPV/cervicalcancer.(It covers the 4 most common strains;about 70%.)How much would you allow them to charge for it?What's it worth ?
Well,this has been fun.Fanned my superiority complex,too.
Firefly on October 8, 2005 at 01:33 PM
Ok, Nikki/Firefly, I see you have decided to hold on to your old idea that anyone disagreeing with you is somehow trying to silence you. That's ridiculous, but I know that trying to convince you otherwise has been futile in the past. I will say, as I've said before, that I have every right to be as strong as I want in expressing my opinion, and how you take it is up to you. If you feel compelled by what I say to defend your right to say it, that is your decision, not mine. Most everyone here knows we are allowed to say whatever we like as long as the moderators don't remove us. It's ironic that you are trying to tell me what I can and can't respond to. I may choose to ignore what you say, or I may decide to respond "vehemently" or "intensely" if I feel like it (though I don't think I have replied "hatefully", as you suggested). Whatever I do will be my choice and I will take responsibility for it. Just as how you respond to me is your choice and your responsibility. If you feel compelled to respond to me as if you are backed into a corner or in a defensive manner or in a zealous way, that is YOUR decision and something ONLY YOU have control over. Trying to blame me for how you are perceived or for what you say is not recognizing your own power and your own responsibility.
On this site, as I said, you are given the right to say what you like as long as the moderators don't decide it's out of line. You are not guaranteed that you won't be disagreed with. I'm sorry that you seem to have a problem with that. I have every right to express my opinions and make suggestions as I see fit. And again you have every right to respond or not as you see fit. It's a beautiful thing and not really that hard to understand.
Krag,
I agree with your last post. Which is why I think it is unfair to say the oil companies are raping the consumer.
As a businessman (even if you are only selling your labor) you want to get as much as you can. Those buying from you want to pay as little as possible. Supply and demand meet at a price. The deal is done by mutual agreement.
For years OPEC priced their oil below market. Thus demand is greater than it would be if they had not kept the price of oil down. We used that chep oil to improve a lot of other stuff besides enery efficiencey and production. Short and long term the market balances suppy and demand.
The government has been trying to "fix" the dope market for 90 years. With what kind of results? I suppose if you put the DEA in charge of policing the gasoline suppy there would be dealers on every corner at way inflated prices. I think I prefer oil companies who only engage in openly consensual crime. Out in public where you can keep an eye on them. Governments are even more prone to back room dealing than business. Look at how the pharma companies own Congress.
I'm all for business. Honest and in the open.
I'd like to see government informational rather than controlling. You know. Jeffersonian. One of the party founders I'm told. The middle name of a recent President I'm also told.
MSimon, I think if you take a recount today, you will find Demos should definetly NOT move to the right. Looks like the Right is unhappy with the Right. Let's not pretend to be something we are not ! Posted by PamB on October 8, 2005 at 03:36 PM
Right PamB. Polls show 70% of Americans say we're going "in the wrong direction" and yet these Repug troll keep trying to convince us we must go in that direction. Never listen to a Repug, they're all liars and will always tell you the wrong thing to do.
Posted by murgen on October 8, 2005 at 03:57 PM
Did you not understand that the parallel universe comment was related to the news story to which I posted the link?
Not that the mini-tutorial wasn't interesting...
Kristen- I understand too. My dad was in the Korean "Conflict". As children you could not surprise him. You could not touch him while he was sleeping. The screaming and whimpering in the middle of the night. I just something that you forget. Now I'm still dealing with it. My husband is a veteran from the first gulf war. Life has been like hell. He started having seizures after he came home. Government sent a letter telling us that he was exposed to chemical. Took awhile to convince him to seek help from the VA. He finally did, then the second war started in the gulf. I found my husband curled up in a fetal position in the back of our closet. He was holding a picture of a friend that was killed over there. He now suffers from PTSD.
Posted by NoPrisoners on October 8, 2005 at 04:00 PM
I don't mind moderates per se, but I mind the kissing up to the right, the slamming of those on the left of their own party, and the unwillingness to stand up for anything that might alienate Republicans.
bush is a policy of war and evil
americans must leave the holy lands of allah or else face defeat
we wanted kerry to win so he would leave iraq and afghanistan - both illegal wars for oil and to humiliate muslims
muslims must be respected
return the governments of iraq and afghanistan
free palestine from israel occupation - no jews in muslim lands
bush and sharon are the true axis of evil
Firefly,
I donot elect Presidents on the basis of Medals.
I elect them based on my estimation of what their policies might be.
You may have other priorities. Or estimates. Or desired policies. It is why we have elections.
BTW loved the Clinton years. But you know I saw that second plane live on TV headed for the towers and I said only "This means war."
War is a terrible sacrifice we ask of our soldiers and should only be done when the situation is dire, I cannot pretend to only 'dislike' GWB when he has callously asked our soldiers to make this sacrifice on his lies. Posted by Kristen
Kristen. Don't forget, the maniac in the White House with the "Messiah Complex" says giving your life for him is "the most noble thing you can do".
PamB - I just wanted you to know that a few days ago, you put up a post that was awsome. I used a few parts of it, along with my thoughts and used it in a letter to a national newspaper. I'll keep you posted if it gets published.
That's great Kathy. Which topic was it?
Posted by DefeatBushSupportOsama on October 8, 2005 at 04:04 PM
I respect the plight of the Muslims, but you create much of that yourselves.
I want the war over also.
I agree about Bush.
I believe in a Paleastinian homeland, but sorry, Israel ain't it, and I don't see any of your Arab bretheren nations giving up any land for the Palestinians....why is that?
As for supporting Osama, I don't support murderers who attack MY HOME. I don't like that any more than you like it when we attack Islamic countries.
I would no more support someone who would destroy a landmark in New York City and kill thousands of people than I would go to a Red Sox-Yankees game and root for the Sox.
But you know I saw that second plane live on TV headed for the towers and I said only "This means war."
War with whom? Anyone who's Muslim? Anyone with oil? Anyone who Junior doesn't like?
The Democrats and Republicans are equally to blame for the hostility towards America.
Watch 'Fog of War', where McNamara realizes that the entire war in Vietnam was a case of misunderstanding. Johnson was a macho Texan who ignored his long-time advisors not to escalate the war. Johnson/McNamara saw Vietnam as part of the cold war, the Vietnamese saw it as a war of independence, like their previous war with France to end occupation. Over 50,000 Americans died from a misunderstanding. Too much power in the hands of too few (still).
The US foreign policy in both Democrat and Republican governments has brought about the situation we face today.
They helped bring about the Islamic Revolution in Iran. In 1953 the CIA helped overthrow the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran and put the puppet shah in power only to have him thrown out in 1979. Then in 1954 helps overthrow the president of Guatemala, hundreds of thousands die. Then in 1973 the CIA assassinate Allende in Chile putting the murderous tyrant Pinochet in power. In 1977 backs the military govt in El Salvador 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed. In 1980's we train Osama bin Laden with $3bil of taxpayer dollars to kill Russians. In 1981 we fund the murdering Contras from sales of weapons to Iran to kill Iraqis while selling weapons to Saddam to kill Iranians after he gassed the Kurds and Iranians. in 2000-2001 we give the Taliban in Afghanistan $245mil in aid. Today we support the tyrants in Uzbekistan, Saudi Arabia (funders of Al-Qaida), and others.
The money for all these acts of terror come from yours and my taxes, and must be approved by Democrats and Republicans in Congress. It's time we charted a real moral course for America. If we stay the (current and historical) course, who knows what will happen.
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 04:08 PM
Yet, you are the one refering to fallacious arguments dating back to Vietnam.
And the war in Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11.
Nothing.
War is a terrible sacrifice we ask of our soldiers and should only be done when the situation is dire, I cannot pretend to only 'dislike' GWB when he has callously asked our soldiers to make this sacrifice on his lies.
Posted by Kristen on October 8, 2005 at 03:39 PM
Kristen, My brother, too, was never the same. Grew very quiet, turned to drink more than when he had before. Little stories would come out now and then, like the day he stood and watched his good friend, who was a pilot, try and land his plane that had had the wheel section blown away, and no wheels. Watched his face in the window as he came down and exploded on the ground. The nights they were gotten up and made to run through miles of swamp water with their guns over their heads, to go and rescue come of their troops.
Men should think VERY carefully before declaring war and sending someone else's sons to fight it for them.
Posted by DefeatBushSupportOsama on October 8, 2005 at 04:04 PM
I rest my case. The "nuts" are out in force today.
DefeatBushSupportOsama,
I take it you don't know that the FBI and most likely the CIA monitors this blog? They can trace an IP address from a post right to where it came from.
To start with Osama caused the destruction of the World Trade Center abd caused thousands of deaths. We had every right to go after him in Afghanistan which by the way was NOT an illegal war. Now Iraq is another story and I don't think we should have ever went there.
I think I have seen time and time again the heads of your Muslim churches saying that Ala is NOT for terrorism. Why does this then continue?
Firefly,
Winning elections means biting your tounge. If you want power you must maintain control.
MSimon you are fogetting one thing. Monlopoly in business, which is what oil/gas/energy is today.
You are right about demand. If people are willing to pay $50/mo for cable TV because there is no competition to challenge prices then the price becomes $50/mo.
When was the last you heard of a gas price war? I remember them. There are fewer and fewer gas/oil companies so less competition.
I am a believer in free market and competition. But when greed dictates policy - when the corporations and the minority wealthy benefit over the people, I draw the line.
Did you not hear the Enron employees recorded conversations about how to screw the American people and make tons of money?
BTW, corporation contributions to the tax burden in the 1950s was about 55%, today it's 5%.
Greed is not good for America.
BTW loved the Clinton years. But you know I saw that second plane live on TV headed for the towers and I said only "This means war."
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 04:08 PM
Of COURSE it meant War! And we went to war in Afghasnistan to try and find the leaders from Saudi Arabia Al-Qaeda who were hiding out there!
What did THAT have to do with an illegal invasion into Iraq, all based on Lie after Lie after Lie? What flavor koolaid did you like the best???
Praying for Republicans to go to jail is not a program. You are actually helping the Rs by eliminating their dead wood.
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 03:08 PM
Only a lying Repug would try to say that stopping criminals from comitting crimes makes them stronger. Why, you're a flip'in political genius slap happy.
Who knows how we can reverse the trend toward total moral bankruptcy in America without being partisan?
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 04:20 PM
Again, this is phrased like you're giving a lesson to me. Did you mean to direct this at me, or did you mean "you" as in "one" and you're referring to the moderates who are conciliatory towards the right?
Just say A or B.
Winning elections means biting your tounge. If you want power you must maintain control.
Like I said to greg, they hate it when the Republican crimes are exposed. When the Repubs get in trouble the trolls come out in force. They're in a "panic" today, boy, I'll tell ya! You can try to tell us to "SHUT UP!" and help cover the crimes up, but it ain't going to happen, "pal".
Anyone who is not afraid of what this Administration is trying to do to your Privacy, is not paying attention! Beware !
As part of the expanding counterterrorism role being taken on by the Pentagon, Defense Intelligence Agency covert operatives need to be able to approach potential sources in the United States without identifying themselves as government agents, George Peirce, the DIA's general counsel, said yesterday.
"This is not about spying on Americans," Peirce said in an interview in which he defended legislative language approved last week by the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. The provision would grant limited authority for DIA agents to clandestinely collect information about US citizens or emigres in this country to help determine whether they could be recruited as sources of intelligence information.
Link
"The war in Iraq has nothing to with 9/11."
Depends on what you see as the cause. If the root cause of our immediate problem is despotism in the Middle East then Iraq is a good idea. Some of us see it that way. Enough to turn the election. The middle East is talking Democracy. Lebanon is getting Syria to losen up. The Palestinians? The are doing what they do best. Killing. With Jews not such easy targets they have turned on each other. Well any way. The biggest friends of America in the Middle East are the people of Iran. We should do more for them. BTW have you heard about them hanging gay kids? It is an outrage. We should be doing more.
Congress recently ammended a bill (I blogged it but can't remember which bill) to say that it is American Policy to end despotism in the world. 400+ House members voted on the amendment and it passed 4 to 1.
So, however stupidly and in advance of requests by Congress, Bush is carrying out American foreign policy.
BTW the end of Despotism used to be a Dem issue. More Rs voted for the amendment than Ds. How did the Republicans get ahead of us? You could look up the vote but I think the vast majority voting against it were Dems.
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 04:34 PM
Please refer back to my very first post to you.
Posted by Will_Matney on October 8, 2005 at 04:19 PM
Will Matney, you missed the point on that post. He's not a "Muslim", he's one of our Republican trolls making up lies about Muslims. I know more or less who he is because he's been saying the same thing under his own name in here for almost two years now.
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 04:34 PM
Please refer back to my very first post to you.
Posted by Firefly on October 8, 2005 at 04:38 PM
And I'll add this:
I'm not an isolationist as a rule, but thanks to Bush, we have our own country to clean up before we can even begin to think of whether we should or shouldn't be everyone else's savior.
HIGH RISK MOVE FOR ROVE: Rove's reappearance "is a risky legal move because it opens him up to making statements that are inconsistent." Stephen Gillers, a New York University law professor, said bringing Rove back for a fourth time "suggests Fitzgerald has learned new information that is tightening the noose." Rove's last ditch effort may be motivated by something other than legal strategy. The LA Times notes, "The case is troublesome for the White House not only because of the possibility of indictments against top officials, but because it raises questions about the rationale the administration used in going to war with Iraq, and about the tactics it uses against political enemies."
WHAT IS MIERS' ROLE?: The leak investigation is wrapping up"at a time when the White House counsel, Harriet E. Miers, who would normally coordinate the legal response to the indictment of a White House official, is preoccupied with her nomination to the Supreme Court." Questions: Is Miers still functioning as White House counsel? What was her involvement in the leak case in the past? How would her involvement affect her ability to rule on cases that result from a potential criminal prosecution?
Link
I wish there was a fund being run right now, to contribute to extra lawyers and help in putting Delay and Frist and Rove away!! I would run bake sales to help fund it!
Looks like a great new book coming out!
Iraq Confidential: The Untold Story of the Intelligence Conspiracy to Undermine the UN and Overthrow Saddam Hussein
by Scott Ritter, with an Introduction by Seymour Hersh
"But the more knowledgeable you personally are about something the Bush Administration is creating lies about, the greater the need for Karl Rove to discredit you.
In this book, "Iraq Confidential," it's payback time."
Link
The biggest friends of America in the Middle East are the people of Iran. We should do more for them. Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 04:34 PM
What do you want to do for them? I can only guess. Sodomize and torture them? Destroy their water, electicity and sewers? Bomb their cities to ruble? You repugs are some mighty sick people, that's for sure.
MSimon, Here's a little poem for you, written by Casey Sheehan's sister. I think You and your sons and nephews and cousins should all go over to the Recruitment center, and all sign up, if you feel this is Such a Noble Cause!
Because your distorted views on the Middle East and come right out of the Republican Workbook. Just another Distortion and lie about WHY we should have gone there. and NO, that was NOT what turned the election!
And let me ask you, if 32% now dis-approve of this war in Iraq, Let me ask you, what does that make you? Mistaken? Duped? lied to? Naive? or just plain un-informed on what is really happening in the world. Wake up Bud, before they tell you next they Have to go to Iran or have to go to Syria !
Have you ever heard the sounds of a mother screaming for her son?
The torrential weeping of a mother will never be done,
They call him a hero, you should be glad he's one, but,
Have you ever heard the sound of a mother weeping for her son?
Have you ever heard the sound of a nation being rocked to sleep?
The leaders want to keep you numb so the pain won't be so deep.
But if we the people let them continue, another mother will weep.
Have you ever heard the sounds of a nation being rocked to sleep?
What does anybody else think about that sicko Flush Limp-Balls yesterday first saying how bad an idea of assisted suicide is in this country and then giggling while advising people to "just take a shotgun and shoot yourself, or take a boat trip on lake Charles"?
The UN does a perfectly good job of undermining itself.
Peace keepers trading food for sex. Still going on.
Guess who left Iraq when the going got tough and who stayed? The UN, Halliburton. No doubt Haliburtn charges too much. What is it worth to have an organization to do the job when you need them? Besides the government can audit Halliburton. Has the UN been audited? What about the oil for food papers shipped to Jordan for "safe keeping"? Safe to be sure. From whom? Why?
Well, the UN post convinced me, we have a full fledge, troll on our hands! Oh yes, the UN is soooo bad. All because they did not want to let Bush do an illegal invasion! And they left Iraq at the US telling them to get out, that they were coming in bombing! What part of that, with your marijuana did you miss????
I am through with you. You are in the minority these days. We do not have to waste our time on little men like yourself. If you were not afraid the Democrats are going to get rid of this trash in the White House, you would not be here. So that gives me great pleasure!
On that note, it is time to go out to dinner, so save your bullcrap for people that don't know better, ok, little man?
PamB,
Unfortunately I'm a little long in tooth for this war other wise I'd be in it. I did 'Nam and I have software flying in LANTIRN pods and F16s. Does that count?
I have encouraged my sons to join the military if it is something they want to do. My #3 son has checked out the Navy. In a volunteer force it is best to have troops who want to do the job. Which is why I prefer to encourage rather than pressure. My #1 daughter when she gets old enough will get the same encouragement.
End despotism in the world.
The UN does a perfectly good job of undermining itself.
Oh, so you don't want "Bush bashed". You just want the UN bashed, and the Clintons bashed, and the Democrats bashed, and the Liberals bashed. I see where you're coming from now, like I didn't know already. Why that's mighty non-partisan of you.
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 04:53 PM
I have to say, I've joined everyone else. I've tried to believe that your loyalties are what you say they are, but I've found logical inconsistencies throughout, sort of what what would expect from someone trying to adopt a persona that isn't actually theirs.
You are not nor were you EVER a Democrat and this makes the point that I have made to my fellow Dems here at times in the past. WE NEED a members-only bulletin board format that you can't join unless you've been checked and found to be the Democrat you say you are.
WD,
You musta missed it. I liked Clinton. Still do.
I have plenty of complaints about Bush. Did I mention the war on sick people (med pot users?).
You might consider dropping your stereotypes and getting in contact with the real world. It might help your party win elections.
Vituperation is no substitute for thought. Well at least not a very good one.
I was looking over the book mentioned above and seen this DVD available;
With God on Our Side - George W. Bush and the Rise of the Religious Right in America (DVD)
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 05:02 PM
No person who wants to end despotism in the world can possibly elect the 21st century's verion of Republicans, and certainly couldn't follow Bush.
Not unless they were incredibly stupid.
All Right Wing loonies pray for "endless war"
'Martial law: The one answer to every question'
On Tuesday, President Bush warned the nation that outbreaks of Bird Flu may require massive quarantines enforced by the US Military. He said that the military would be better able "to prevent people from coming in to get exposed to the flu," although he failed to explain why that task couldn't be carried out by the National Guard. Bush's comments echoed the same themes we've heard repeatedly since Hurricane Katrina, that the president needs the power to deploy troops within the country at his own discretion and without any legal restrictions. It is a conspicuous attempt to militarize the country and declare martial law, although the media has scrupulously avoided the obvious conclusions.
Bush now claims that he will need to deploy the military following a terrorist attack, a national disaster, or after the outbreak of a flu-epidemic. "Sending in the troops" has seemingly replaced "tax-cuts" as the one-size-fits-all answer for every question asked of any member of the hard-right administration.
"I am concerned about avian flu" Bush opined. "I'm concerned about what an avian flu outbreak could mean for the United States and the world. If we had an outbreak somewhere in the United States, do we not then quarantine that part of the country?
And who best to be able to affect a quarantine?
One option is the use of a military that's able to plan and move. So that's why I put it on the table.
more at...Smiking Chimp
PamB,
Unfortunately I'm a little long in tooth for this war other wise I'd be in it. I did 'Nam and I have software flying in LANTIRN pods and F16s. Does that count?
I have encouraged my sons to join the military if it is something they want to do. My #3 son has checked out the Navy. In a volunteer force it is best to have troops who want to do the job. Which is why I prefer to encourage rather than pressure. My #1 daughter when she gets old enough will get the same encouragement.
End despotism in the world.
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 05:07 PM
I think YOU should look at why you claim not to support Bush, but every thing you stand for except the pot issue sounds like a Republican talking point.
As for liking Clinton, that may or may not be true. What Republican does not know that if you want to pass as a Democrat, rule one, you say you like Bill Clinton?
WD, You musta missed it. I have plenty of complaints about Bush.</I.
Yep, I must have missed it alright. You've been defending Bush all day long, "Pal", so what are some of these 'complaints' besides the pot?
Posted by WD on October 8, 2005 at 04:53 PM
I think he's a sicko, and saying that was a bad idea. That was a boat full of elderly people. Much of his demographic are baby boomers and seniors. Very unwise.
His ratings are sinking like a rock. He must be a little crazed.
Firefly,
Despotism ended in Iraq and Afghanistan (so far).
I'm not saying you ought to agree about it or the way it was done.
I'm just saying reasonable people can differ. My mom argues your side all the time; she is 85 and doesn't give an inch. Still up to date on current events and gives the Democrat point of view without flinching. I love her. I just don't agree with her.
To her I have gone over to the dark side. I see it as keeping my ideals and changing to more effective methods.
Posted by Firefly on October 8, 2005 at 05:15 PM
I never really heard much of him in years past, so I might have missed some of his worst stuff, but i think he's getting "nuttier and nuttier" as time goes by. He didn't sound that mentally ill 8, 10, 12 years ago when I heard him, but he's been really, really bad for the past five.
Will_Matney
"I think I have seen time and time again the heads of your Muslim churches saying that Ala is NOT for terrorism. Why does this then continue?"
What you sow, you reap.
Read: history of US foreign policy above: Posted by Krag on October 8, 2005 at 04:12 PM
and
http://baltimorechronicle.com/091104PaulJBalles.shtml
Bush complaints which were alluded to but not elucidated:
1. Too much a big spender
2. Too much in thrall to religious wackos (not as bad as Keyes)
3. Poor communicator
4. Poor attitude on bioscience
5. Harriet Miers
6. Drug benefit
7. Terry Schiavo (spelling probably wrong)
Basically I'm a defence/offence hawk, fiscal conservative, socially very liberal. There used to be a place for me in the dem Party.
What I see is the Dems playing the role in this war that the Republicans played in WW2. Go back and read the history of the Roberts Commission. The Rs accused FDR of getting Japan to attack us by leaving Pearl Harbor with an inadequate defence plan and poor leaders.
The script is the same. The actors have reversed roles.
Despotism ended in Iraq and Afghanistan (so far).
Despotism has not ended in Iraq and Afghanistan "(so far)". What rock have you been living under for the past four years, "Pal"? You must be in some kind of neo-con dream world.
Is everyone enjoying a drizzly afternoon?
Newsview: Dean Aims to Overhaul Democrats
What I'm trying to do is impose a system and run this place like a business," Dean said during an expansive interview in his office overlooking the Capitol
How novel...appealing to voters!
Improving the party's "micro-targeting," the tactic of merging political information about voters with their consumer habits to figure out how to appeal to them.
It is important to discount a lot of human nature to get to reality. A certain amount of opposition is reflexive. Humans distrust the powerful. Which is a good thing.
That doesn't mean the reflex is always correct. Some times yes. Sometimes no.
We had Copperheads durling Lincoln's war. Surprisingly they were Democrats. The arguments are pretty much the same. Only the date on the calendar is different.
For most people the rightness or wrongness of any particular war is dependent on the party in power. The opposition always opposes.
It is up to the people in the middle to decide.
1.Too much a big spender What, don't like to see American tax payers money spent on Americans?
5. Harriet Miers Isn't she Right Wing enough to suit you?
6. Drug benefit Same with number one above?
WD,
Democracy is a path not an end. Iraq and Afghanistan are on the path.
Of course I have heard some opinion that the politics were better in those countries when their former rulers held sway. It is possible. I have my doubts.
Basically I'm a defence/offence hawk, fiscal conservative,
So in other words, unlimited money for war, none for what it takes to run the country of America, right? Yep, your a hard core Repug. How you gonna pay for all this hawkish defense with all your fiscal conservativism? Put it on the "bar tab" for future generations to pay?
Posted by Jen on October 8, 2005 at 03:59 PM
This post from you elicited a very strong reaction to which I posted a very strong response. I have decided that one of us has to be able to control ourselves, clearly it's not going to be you, so it's going to have to me. I did save it in case it ever becomes necessary to say it. I really, really hope I won't ever have to do that.
So for the good of this party and this blog, my plan is to:
Agree to disagree
Accept that our ways of disagreeing are horrendously incompatible, and...
When we disagree, don't say it. It is almost certain not to go over well.
If you can't do that, fine, but you're the one who'll be dragging everyone else down, not me. I'm trying to take the high road. How you travel is up to you.
1. I think the money people earn is theirs. I trust the people more than I do corporate influenced government.
2. As to H. Miers. If the theocons are singing her praises I am agin' her. Government out of women's wombs.
3. The drug benefit is not designed to help the poor with drugs. It is designed to fatten the drug companies by funneling drug money to favored suppliers. I'm surprised the anti-corporatist dems got blinded by the feel good language. Corporate pork. The drug war serves the same purpose.
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 05:27 PM
I'm sure this is the least important thing in your post, but just letting you know that you spelled Schaivo right.
Posted by WD on October 8, 2005 at 05:23 PM
My husband agrees. Back then, he listened to him and enjoyed the show. Now he can't do so without wanting to put his fist through the dash.
He's an Air America man now.
WD,
You are recycling the Republican argument against FDR's war. That one cost us 50% of GDP. This one about 6%.
That FDR was one reckless spender.
LOL.
Repubs talk out bith sides of their asses. If it's a "Democrat war" then it's a "bad war". If it's a "Republican war" then it's a "good war".
Why did they blame America first?
Bombing a sovereign nation for ill-defined reasons with vague objectives undermines the American stature in the world. The international respect and trust for America has diminished every time we casually let the bombs fly."
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)
"Once the bombing commenced, I think then Milosevic unleashed his forces, and then that's when the slaughtering and the massive ethnic cleansing really started"
-Senator Don Nickles (R-OK)
"
Clinton's bombing campaign has caused all of these problems to explode"
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)
One can support the troops and disagree with the President.
-Representative Tom Delay (R-TX)
"America has no vital interest in whose flag flies over Kosovo's capital, and no right to attack and kill Serb soldiers fighting on their own soil to preserve the territorial integrity of their own country"
-Pat Buchanan (R)
"These international war criminals were led by Gen. Wesley Clark ...who clicked his shiny heels for the commander-in-grief, Bill Clinton."
-Michael Savage
"This has been an unmitigated disaster ... Ask the Chinese embassy. Ask all the people in Belgrade that we've killed. Ask the refugees that we've killed. Ask the people in nursing homes. Ask the people in hospitals."
-Representative Joe Scarborough (R-FL)
"It is a remarkable spectacle to see the Clinton Administration and NATO taking over from the Soviet Union the role of sponsoring "wars of national liberation."
-Representative Helen Chenoweth (R-ID)
"By the order to launch air strikes against Serbia, NATO and President Clinton have entered uncharted territory in mankind's history. Not even Hitler's grab of the Sudetenland in the 1930s, which eventually led to WW II, ranks as a comparable travesty. For, there are no American interests whatsoever that the NATO bombing will
either help, or protect; only needless risks to which it exposes the American soldiers and assets, not to mention the victims on the ground in Serbia."
Bob Djurdjevic, founder of Truth in Media
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 05:16 PM
A person who is a Republican I can forgive.
A person who is a Republican who ascribes to ANYTHING this administration does has zero credibility with me.
A person who is a war hawk with no intelligence behind it, who doesn't care if the war has no plan, no end, or was based on one man's personal reasons for wanting to go is a criminal as far as I'm concerned.
FWIW,
I think El Rushbo is a blowhard.
My opinion of Air America is no better, however.
That FDR was one reckless spender.
LOL.
Posted by MSimon on October 8, 2005 at 05:52 PM
------------------
How do you figure this? Hoover started the RFC which sent 1.5 Billion in the 30's to the banks and railroads. FDR done an audit and found only a very few who were supposed to receive the funds got it. He then had to try and straighten this mess out. Hoover in fact refused to give on dime to help the poor.
FDR in fact was pulling this country out of the depression and giving Americans needed jobs so they could survive. He started Social Security because he knew millions of people wouldn't save for a retirement or help the poorer who couldn't. By the way, FDR tried his best to balance the budget every year he was in office, and the very programs he started didn't get the funding he really wanted over it. He never recklessy spent anything, it all went to a good purpose to help poor Americans who were starving to death. Anyone who would run down FDR and what he created (named below) has to be as far right wing as you can get in my book.
1932 Franklin Delano Roosevelt elected
The New Deal was composed of countless programs, labeled an "alphabet soup" by its detractors. Among the New Deal acts were the following, most of them passed within the first 100 days of FDR's administration:
United States bank holiday, 1933: closed all banks until they became certified by federal reviewers
Abandonment of gold standard, 1933: allowed more money to be put in circulation to create a mild inflation
Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), 1933: employed young adults to perform unskilled work for the federal government
Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA), 1933: a government program that ran a series of dams built on the Tennessee River
Federal Emergency Relief Administration (FERA), 1933: provided breadlines and other aid to the unemployed
Agricultural Adjustment Act (AAA), 1933: paid farmers to not grow crops
National Recovery Act (NRA), 1933: created fair standards in favor of labor unions
Civil Works Administration (CWA), 1933: provided temporary jobs to millions of unemployed
Public Works Administration (PWA), 1933: employed middle-aged skilled workers to work on public projects, cost $4 billion
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) / Glass-Steagall Act: insures deposits in banks in order to restore public confidence in banks
Securities Act of 1933, created the SEC, 1933: codified standards for sale and purchase of stock, required risk of investments to be accurately disclosed
Indian Reorganization Act, 1934
Social Security Act (SSA), 1935: provided financial assistance to: elderly, handicapped, delinquent, unemployed; paid for by employee and employer payroll contributions
Works Progress Administration (WPA), 1935: a reiteration of the PWA, created useful work for skilled workers
National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) / Wagner Act, 1935: granted right of labor unions to exist
Judicial Reorganization Bill, 1937: FDR requested power to appoint a new Supreme Court judge for every judge 70 years or older; failed to pass
Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), 1938: established a maximum normal work week of 40 hours, and a minimum pay of 40 cents/hour
President brought the nation out of the Great Depression
Guided us through most of World War II
Firefly,
In war plans change. Lincoln's war started out as a war for union in the North and slavery (mostly) in the South. It morphed into mostly an anti-slavery war in the North.
This war has morphed into a crusade against despotism. However we got on that track, I favor that end no matter ineptly excecuted (btw no war goes well until it is over - see Anzio in WW2, D-Day was an American disaster as was Kasserine Pass or Tarawa or Iwo Jima, not to mention the ship and sailor losses to take Okinawa - all wars are full of terrible mistakes. The judgement call is does the end justify the price - reasonable people can differ.)
So about med pot. Here is a war on Americans at home. Here is a war that about 60% of the people are against. Where are the Dems?
Will,
Reckless spender in terms of what WW2 cost vs what this war is costing. 50% of GDP vs 6%.
Lot of nice other stuff in your post. Not germane to what I stated.
WD quotes:
"It is a remarkable spectacle to see the Clinton Administration and NATO taking over from the Soviet Union the role of sponsoring "wars of national liberation."
-Representative Helen Chenoweth (R-ID)
==================
Well funny thing is back in the day when I was a full fledged Dem I favored wars of liberation. As a somewhat R I still do.
Something happened.
As I said. For me it is policy not party.
The trouble is Junior's a pathological liar. He's not fighting "Despotism" in Iraq, he's torturing and sodomizing civilians and they don't like it. He thinks he can "force" them to put up with it whether they like it or not. That's why I don't support the war crimes he's engaging in over there and I have no doubt he's just itching for the chance to do the same "over here". That's why he want to get rid of "posse commentatus" so bad. He's come out and said many times he wants this country to be a dictatorship, "just so long as he's the dictator".
U.S. 'Lacks Moral Authority' In Iraq
"I don't know if I have the moral authority to send troops into combat anymore," a senior American general recently told United Press International. He knows what his power means -- that on his word hundreds or thousands of young men would step into danger.
"I'm no longer sure I can look (a soldier or a Marine) in the eye and say: 'This is something worth dying for.'"
He doesn't mean Iraq. There are plenty of bad people here to fight, and plenty of innocents worth protecting.
His moral crisis was that he had been to Washington, D.C.
He had been asked politically loaded questions from both sides of aisle about the war, each questioner seeking ammunition to use for their own political ends.
He was dismayed. And he's not the only one.
"Everything that happens in Iraq is viewed in Washington through a prism of whether it is good for George W. Bush or bad," said a civilian U.S. official, who spoke to UPI on the condition he not be named.
Successful election? "Proof" the invasion was the right thing to do
Space war
I did a zip code search on Newsmeat.com and found out my closest sister gave a $300.00 contribution to the BUSH campaign on Oct. 20, 2004. I am beside myself as she knows my politics, and has always maintained an independent stance - and she is a REGISTERED Democrat! Don't know how other people handle this, but it is a VERY big deal to me. Sucks.
MSimon, since you're answering questions, how about my 5:44PM? I'd really like to see what you come up with for that one.
MSimon,
You can't compare WWII to the war in Iraq. We are in those two countries only and with a military presence that is crippled by not enough folks to fight it and others to wore out to. They wont even send them the needed supplies to do it right and is getting that many more killed. WWII took in several, several countries (about all of Europe), and plenty of islands in the Pacific, plus having to rebuild our navy, and build ships for supplies to Britan. Our military was not near up to date as Germanys and we had to build new planes, tanks, ships, etc to even think about fighting the battle. In fact, we had all of Europe to take back plus the Pacific theater. Compairing that task to the war in Iraq just don't fly. Anyone should know it cost way more for WWII than it will for this one in Iraq and Afghanastan. If Bush had to handle a war like WWII we would be in deep shit in my opinion.
The only way to be sure Iraq does not become the threat it was posited to be before the war, a safe haven for terrorists, is to raise the standard of living and the expectations of the people, creating a country of "haves" who don't tolerate terrorists and thugs, and who have confidence their government and security force will back them up.
Another looming problem that may need attention: whether the reconstruction projects undertaken by the United States with $18.6 billion appropriated in 2003 are actually bringing about stability. Some of the projects on the books won't yield results for two or three years.
And by the end of this year, all of the money earmarked for Iraq reconstruction will be committed or on contract, U.S. officials involved in reconstruction point out. There will be no flexibility after that to redirect money to high-impact projects -- those that influence public opinion -- unless there is new money for reconstruction.
"We're in a tactical security environment. I don't give a rat's ass that in two years the sewer system is going to work," the U.S. official said. "We may not get there if we aren't careful."
Khalilizad is reviewing the reconstruction priorities now, as did the ambassador before him, John Negroponte.
Negroponte ended up taking money from water and electricity projects and pumping money into the security sector, but that may have been shortsighted. Projects that impact the quality of Iraqi's lives in the short term may do more to shore up security than new guns and border forts, as Maj. Gen. Peter Chiarelli posits in an article for the July/August edition of Military Review.
Good Evening!
Cyn, does this help...there are a lot of people who gave money for Bush.
Like my name??
Big mistake most people make is to think there are clearly two distinctively different political parties running America.
Don't forget over 50,000 Americans died from a war started and continued by Democrats (Vietnam) and eventually ended by a Republican, so don't go calling this or that side chicken-hawks or hawks or doves or whatever.
We either need a completely redefined Democrat party or we need an entirely new party, of and for the people – because neither Democrats or Republicans are.
Bush could not have started the Iraq war, tax cuts for oil/energy companies, and tax cuts for wealthy while cutting aid to schools, the handicapped, and the elderly without Congress (both sides).
I am totally disgusted with both parties.
Hey everyone!!! the long lost dewey here.....new grandpa and all...I'm visiting my daughter, son-in-law and THE BABY (Zoe).
Projects are almost under control at work and I'll finally be spending a little time with you guys again.
hi greg, tonito, Lizzy, Dawn, Pammie, Sukey, Eli, Amanda, and all the rest.
bye for now
Krag, what you need to realize is that the Democratic party is "infiltrated" by Republicans. They call themselves the DLC and they side with the Repubs on "everything". Don't give up on the entire Democratic party. We have to expose them and clean them out, otherwise we'll keep on losing every election and every Republican bill for war, tax cuts for the wealthy, and taking our American rights away will continue to be passed with their help.
Grandpa DEWEY! Congrats and glad to here that the projects are under control.
It was nice to see you! Give that Baby Zoe a kiss!
Hi Dewey, it's good to see you back online! Congratulations on the new grandbaby!
Cyn, I did the same search and I'm happy to report that my Republican father hasn't donated since prior to the 2000 election.
Dewey - You are sorely missed! Glad things are going well with you and family. Hurry back soon and, of course, a kiss to that little baby girl!
Posted by WD on October 8, 2005 at 07:03 PM
WD,
Your are correct! Take West Virginia who has at least 2:1 more registered Democrats than republicans but still carried Bush both elections. I don't call these supposed Democrats a Democrat, thery're nothing but fence straddlers, or they should be Independant if not republican. Then you have republican goons going to this and other Democratic blogs saying they're a Democrat and trying to spread right wing beliefs.
Kristen, I have to say this really bothers me. I guess my sister must be a closet Repug. If I had known up front, it might be easier to take. But,for the moment, it has greatly changed my opinion of her, and I don't like that.
If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier... just so long as I'm the dictator.
Cyn, I must admit that I refuse to talk politics with my brothers. They know what I believe but I don't ask them because I don't want them to confirm what I know.
I'm sorry that you found this out in such a surprising manner.
Dubya, before 9/11
Nobody can threaten this country. Oh, they may be able to bomb a buildings...
Will_Matney, I started to post this in response to Cyn in NY but then held off, but sure you're right. He we got a guy coming in here trying to "give us political advice" and everything he's telling us benefits the Republicans. Don't "bash Bush", don't expose Republican crimes. Don't disagree with anything he does. "It turns voters off", yada, yada. Like we're really going to fall for that. Badmouthing Clinton non-stop for eight years never hurt the Republicans. Hell, they're STILL doing it!
and she is a REGISTERED Democrat! Don't know how other people handle this, but it is a VERY big deal to me. Sucks. Posted by Cyn_NY on October 8, 2005 at 06:25 PM
A lot of people who call themselves Democrats aren't really Democrats. I remember during the Monica scandal having people howling for Clinton's impeachment and when I asked them, "What, are you a Republican?" they'd look a me kinda strange and say, "Why no, I'm a Democrat".
also if you voted for bush you are a long way from the middle of anything. but if you voted for him why did you let keyes down? after all he is just bush without the backers...Posted by gregg on October 8, 2005 at 02:50 PM
Greg, you should know the answer to that one! Keyes was Black, otherwise he would have voted for him.
Please see charges against the Bush administration.
http://www.el27.net/anotherone.php
Thanks
Marty
Newsmeat.com (LOL what a name)
DEWEY!! HEY!! I was about to go awol looking for you Sarge!! Glad you are ok and CONgrats on the new arrival!
Just don't turn into an old fogie on us ok? hehe!
Not caught up..... HEY everyone! I'm about a hour behind you!
save me a seat!
I am totally disgusted with both parties.
Posted by Krag on October 8, 2005 at 06:54 PM
Sometimes I think there is a big disconnect between the Washington politicians and the REST out in outer states. BIG disconnect!
murgen, i am very glad about mercks new drug for treating hpv. those of us with health care and/or means can pay plenty for it.that said merch needs to take one half of one percent of their yearly profits and make it available to any woman who can't afford it in the whole world for free because anything else would be unchristian and immoral. right?
Man, you all have surely been doing your homework today! (will, WD, Pam, etc) and I have surely laughed a LOT from the witty sarcasms thrown around (yes I bend between goofy humor and something much darker) LOL
Thanks everyone!
Lizzy sorry I missed you earlier! How was the surf? ;-)
It took me so long to catch up I missed dinner. sheeet - Be back "most tic"
:-] I can't believe my only child turned 24 yesterday!
3rd rock from the SUN at 1AU just keeps spinning!
brb
Dawnelle,
Thanks for the comment. Also for all, I figured a good laugh would help us all. Some laughs for the night which I'll quote from Dubyaspeak.com;
"We need to reform our legal systems so the people, on the one hand, can get justice. On the other hand, the justice system doesn't affect the flows of capital".
-- Dubya presents a case for a justice system second only to the free flow of capital, which we must assume is more important, Washington, D.C., Dec. 16, 2004
"And we've heard that rhetoric, haven't we, tax the rich? The rich hire lawyers and accountants for a reason, to stick you with the tab".
-- Is Dubya speaking from experience here? Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, Oct. 6, 2004
"You know what else I think? You know what else I think when they say, tax the rich? Most rich people are able to avoid taxes, and if you can't raise enough money from taxing the rich, guess who pays the taxes? Yes, you do".
-- Dubya explains his tax priorities by portraying the concept of taxing the rich as a pipe dream. I guess we might as well drop their rate to 0%. Albuquerque, New Mexico, Aug. 11, 2004
"That's why you've got to be careful about this rhetoric, we're only going to tax the rich. You know who the -- the rich in America happen to be the small business owners. That's what that means".
-- What? Annandale, Virginia, Aug. 9, 2004
"The really rich people figure out how to dodge taxes anyway".
-- Dubya tries to find more reasons not to tax the rich, Annandale, Virginia, Aug. 9, 2004
"We need to make sure that we have legal reform. Junk and frivolous lawsuits make it awfully difficult for people to find work here in the United States".
-- Dubya stretches responsibility for the poor job market to include frivolous lawsuits, Washington, D.C., Mar. 23, 2004
"That's what we're here to discuss. It's an economic lesson. But we're not using Ph.D.'s. Well, we're using Ph.D.'s in the sense that we're talking to entrepreneurs who are on the front lines of making capital decisions every day".
-- Oh, those Ph.D.'s, Washington, D.C., Mar. 16, 2004
"We had some CEOs that weren't honest with their shareholders and their employees. And we passed tough laws that said, we're not going to tolerate dishonesty in the boardrooms of America. You're now beginning to see on your TV screens what we're talking about. People are being held to account. And that hurt our economy".
-- Holding people to account hurt our economy? Ardmore, Pennsylvania, Mar. 15, 2004
"Recession means that people's incomes, at the employer level, are going down, basically, relative to costs, people are getting laid off".
-- So that's what it means, Washington, D.C., Feb. 19, 2004
"To serve the economic needs of our country, we must also reform our immigration laws. Reform must begin by confronting a basic fact of life and economics. Some of the jobs being generated in America's growing economy are jobs American citizens are not filling. This past week, I proposed a new temporary worker program that would match willing foreign workers with willing American employers, when no Americans can be found to fill the jobs. If an American employer is offering a job that American citizens are not willing to take, we ought to welcome into our country a person who will fill that job".
-- I'm confused. Is Dubya coming out in support of creating jobs that Americans wouldn't want to do? Shouldn't we find out why Americans are "unwilling" to do them? Could it have something to do with low pay and long hours? Perhaps I'm being too cynical here... President's Radio Address, Jan. 10, 2004
"One of the main jobs we have here in Washington is to protect our country. You see, not only did the attacks help accelerate a recession, the attacks reminded us that we are at war".
-- So we were at war before September 11, and all the deaths and horror on that day were just a reminder? Wow. Washington, D.C., Jun. 8, 2005
"One of the interesting lessons that the world can look at is Pakistan. You see, there are some in the world who do not believe that a Muslim society can self-govern. Some believe that the only solution for government in parts of the world is for there to be tyranny or despotism. I don't believe that. The Pakistan people have proven that those cynics are wrong. And where President Musharraf can help in world peace is to help remind people what is possible".
-- I think somebody needs to remind Dubya that President Musharraf seized control of Pakistan in a coup d'état. Not exactly a model for the rule of law and Muslim self-governance. White House, Dec. 4, 2004
"As you know, we don't have relationships with Iran. I mean, that's -- ever since the late '70s, we have no contacts with them, and we've totally sanctioned them".
-- With the small exception of those secret arms sales to Iran in the 1980s, but who's counting, right? Annandale, Virginia, Aug. 9, 2004, What about Halliburton?
"See, free nations do not develop weapons of mass destruction".
-- I wonder if Dubya is going to try and rewrite the history of the 20th century to agree with this statement, Washington, D.C., Oct. 8, 2003
"Two-and-a-half years ago -- or two years ago, this nation came under enemy attack".
-- Sure, he corrected himself, but how could he get this wrong one day after the 2nd anniversary? Fort Stewart, Georgia, Sep. 12, 2003
"History has called the United States into action, and we will not let history down".
-- Apparently we owe history a war, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Jan. 29, 2003
"Before September the 11th, many in the world believed that Saddam Hussein could be contained. But chemical agents, lethal viruses and shadowy terrorist networks are not easily contained. Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans -- this time armed by Saddam Hussein".
-- Well, they'd have to come back from the dead for starters, so you really would have to imagine pretty hard, but more importantly, how is September 11 supposed to have changed the world's view of Saddam Hussein when he didn't have anything to do with it? State of the Union Address, Jan. 28, 2003
"Like the Nazis and the communists before them, the terrorists seek to end lives and control all life. And like the Nazis and the communists before them, they will be opposed by free nations and the terrorists will be defeated".
-- I guess the communist nations of China, Cuba, Laos, North Korea and Vietnam have already been defeated, Vilnius, Lithuania, Nov. 23, 2002
"I don't believe we can afford to have a League of Nations again".
-- The irony of this statement is that the League of Nations failed in part because the U.S. refused to join (respect) it. I guess history does repeat, after all. Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2002
"For the first time, young girls go to school in Afghanistan, thanks to the United States and our coalition".
-- Actually, I think young girls went to school in Afghanistan before the Taliban regime took power, Dubya. Cleveland, Ohio, Jul. 1, 2002
"It seems odd that with all the history it contains, this great building went more than a century without a name befitting its dignity. We've solved that problem today, and we've solved it once and for all. This building now bears the name of Dwight D. Eisenhower".
-- Actually, the Dwight D. Eisenhower Executive Office Building has been called by this name since Nov. 1999, when President Clinton signed the bill into law, Washington, D.C., May 7, 2002
"See, if we blink, everybody else goes to sleep. History has called us into action. History has laid the mantle of responsibility for peace squarely on our shoulders. I accept that responsibility, and so does the American people".
-- Santa Clara, California, May 1, 2002
"I had the privilege of voting in the Republican primary in 1974. As you know, you've got a one-month residency requirement -- and I met it. So I voted. I can't remember who I voted for, but I was a proud participant".
-- Exhibiting vague nostalgia for voting in the Alaska Republican primary in 1974, Anchorage, Alaska, Feb. 16, 2002, Funny I remember all I voted for and I'm 40. Maybe it was the booze or nose candy that clouded his memory (WM).
"There wasn't a lot of protest at Yale in '68. I don't remember that. And I think most people -- I don't know if you found anything differently -- I just don't remember any great days of rage. I think those were mainly in the 70's".
-- In actuality 1967-68 saw the following events: Race riots in Yale hometown of New Haven, antiwar "teach-ins" and protests, students burning draft cards and William Sloane Coffin Jr., Yale chaplain, was indicted for helping draft resisters. New York Times, Jun. 19, 2000
Firefly on October 8, 2005 at 05:47 PM
Ok, Nikki, thanks for sharing your plans with me, though none of us needed to know them. You do whatever you wish. Threaten me with a 'strong response' - that's traveling high. I am at peace with how I travel, my conscience as to how I have spoken with you now and in the past is crystal clear, and you can say whatever you like about it. I have no problem controlling myself, but you will have a problem trying to control me. That's all.
{{{Dewey}}} you have been so missed! Glad to see you around. Enjoy that grandbaby!
Watched Coulter on Bill Maher last night -- watched being the operative word. More like stared at her Adam's Apple for five minutes. Damn!
Evening William, It sure is! We have BUTTONS!
After a Wal-Mart employee turned in a high school student's anti-Bush poster to the police, the Secret Service came calling.
answwering JEN:
"though none of us needed to know them"
The paragon of self-control strikes again.
And really, speaking for everyone? Why are you so bound and determined to drag others into this? This is not the first time you've done this today. Aren't you strong enough to stand alone? To fight your own battles? Or even better, to NOT FIGHT AT ALL?
Okay, sorry, forgot myself....
Yes, Jen. Whatever you say, Jen.
Good article on "Framing Katrina" written by George Lakoff and John Halpin:
Framing Katrina
I think we better be careful that the Heritage Foundation think tankers may turn this disaster into something positive for their conservative agenda.
They already managed to ram that awful "refinery bill" down our throats and I didn't hear very much public outcry (except from the folks at this web site of course!).
Americans are so deceived by these Republican think tanks and their allies in the media noise machine.
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 8, 2005 at 09:17 PM
As God is my witness, I know Coulter used to be Andy Coulter and learned to be this bitter against liberals when her first boyfriend after the gender reassignment surgery broke up with her because he couldn't accept her identity.
I'm sure the guy was just in shock, I mean, they were standing at the altar and all, and besides, he's just ONE liberal. Relax Ann! It's time to move on.
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 8, 2005 at 09:27 PM
Did you take that off the character map?
firefly you get so worked up and i can never quite figure out what the hell is going on with you. for instance your 5:55pm post was something i can understand but this battle with jen makes no sense to me.
Did I come in at a bad time?
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 8, 2005 at 09:33 PM
Of course not. Good to see you.
If you used any other font, would this board formatting convert it back to Arial?
Junk toting stick figure Ann Coulter
Transexual plagarist Ann Coulter
It's a man, baby! (Austin Powers)
-- Names for Ann Coulter on Stephanie Miller
william, its always a bad time somewhere for someone.
oh i saw the movie the constant gardner tonite. it was well done and quite depressing. not so much for its plot and all which were fiction but of course as they say "based on actual..." but there were shots of africa and the sudan and it was a weird mix of beautiful, alien (to me ) vistas and people living in terrible conditions and dealing with horrific experiences. not sure if i recommend it but it was quite well made and thought provoking.
That refinery bill was bullshit! These bastards have been shutting down refineries ever since bush got in, then they jack up the price complaining that the remaining refineries are running at full capacity and they cann't produce enough oil, and the congress then passes an energy bill giving these bastards BILLIONS more to build new refineries, and all of that is on top of the BILLIONS they are making off of us by jacking up the prices!
Posted by gregg on October 8, 2005 at 09:34 PM
Gregg, I don't consider myself to be responsible for this fight with Jen. Nor do I think, if you're reading without a bias which you might or might not have, that I can by ANY MEANS be considered to have the lock on getting worked up. Not in this situation, and not generally.
In any event, I honestly wouldn't concern myself with it if I were you. I keep trying to ask her to understand that when it comes to anything conflictive, she and I do not speak the same language and for the good of EVERYONE, would she just learn how to keep walking as I'll do with her when I don't like something she says, but it seems to me to be the case that she finds that difficult.
This is really none of anyone else's concern nor should anyone else be made to feel uncomfortable by it. I keep trying to convey that.
For God's sake, on to other topics. Okay?
Never saw the constant gardner. We had a girl in high school named Constance Gardner, and I remember seeing her.... ;)
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 8, 2005 at 09:41 PM
And you say I get worked up?
Yes, I totally agree. Totally. And I'll go one further. I think the oil companies can lower gas prices any time they want to and they are trying to get Americans so far down on their knees begging for relief and the financial ability to leave their homes, that they'll write letters to Congress BEGGING them to let the oil companies drill for oil in Alaska.
Remember I said it. If it's not next, I'll eat this piece of cake over here....wait, I think I'll just eat this piece of cake over here.
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 8, 2005 at 09:43 PM
Oh, okay, so now I know what that movie was about...that girl in your high school. She was African, right?
yeah sure firefly on to other topics but it is hard to have a whatever it is with another person on the blog and not have everyone else be aware and maybe impacted by it as it is a public forum.
anyhow it is interesting once again that as the republican death machine begins to lose its wheels the troll-o-gites appear talking about how the democrats need to move to the middle and all...ho,ho i will move to the middle of the couch so as to get the best view of the perp walks for these turds...
so no appreciation for my movie reviews? think i will see what atrios has to offer. bbl.
Listening to bush speak is depressing enough. The real world is depressing enough. When I go to movies, I want escapist fun, or science fiction with liberal values. (See Star Wars). I do not watch movies that create fear or anxiety, because fear creates anger, which leads to the Dark Side. I don't watch depressing movies because they make me feel like shit. I did like the Robocop series though.
Posted by gregg on October 8, 2005 at 09:47 PM
"yeah sure firefly on to other topics but it is hard to have a whatever it is with another person on the blog and not have everyone else be aware and maybe impacted by it as it is a public forum."
Homey, that is exactly what I keep trying to say (well, among the points I keep trying to make anyway). Really, it is.
Okay, I think those trolls are absolutely paid off to do that. Nobody in their right minds could still back these guys of their own free will, there has to be something in it for them, and I think such an initiative would be totally consistent with what we've seen the GOP do in the past.
That refinery bill was bullshit!
***
Indeed, it was yet another rip-off! Mainly, they want to rip up environmental regulations that cronies in the energy industry hate.
I doubt they will build any new refineries. The evidence is that the energy companies WANT a refinery shortage to drive up prices.
I think Lakoff does have a point though. The Republicans immediately put the wing nuts in the Heritage Foundation to work on framing the debate. They also came up with a laundry list of disgusting conservative ideas such as revoking Davis-Bacon prevailing wage act.
I don't want to see the debate turn in the Repugs favor. Katrina should be a message to the country that conservative government simply does not work.
so no appreciation for my movie reviews? think i will see what atrios has to offer. bbl.
Posted by gregg on October 8, 2005 at 09:50 PM
What movie reviews G?
They are replacing all Citgo stations in Columbus with Marathon stations. Marathon is owned by Exxon Mobil, while Citgo is the Gas produced by Venezuela, whose leader volunteered to send cheap gas to the USA to cover the Katrina related slowdown in production.
What image button, William??
But if you would like to see an image, The Perp Walk is really good.
It gives hope!
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 8, 2005 at 09:50 PM
I feel that way sometimes. Especially over the last five years.
The last movie I saw was "The Deal" which had a good concept but SUUUUUUUUUUCKED, and before that, "Beauty Shop," which was very funny.
rjsnj, that is why they were shutting DOWN refineries; because it allowed them to complain. Now we are going to pay for modernizing the refineries AND give them windfall profits? WTF?
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 8, 2005 at 09:54 PM
Our new Supreme Court justice may as well be named Helena Handbasket.
Posted by WD on October 8, 2005 at 07:33 PM
I have "registered as a Pubie " during Primaries, only so I could vote for the Pube I think can be more easily defeated.
Been doing it forever.
Lizzy, I have been using that one as a background bitmap for years!
DPD, I'm not sure but I think that in PA, we could choose at primaries one party or the other. On the other hand, do you wonder if some Republicans do as you do, and register Democrat, so THEY could choose Kerry?
Now we are going to pay for modernizing the refineries AND give them windfall profits? WTF?
***
Yep, it's disgusting! They will be able to reduce the number of gas variations to seven (down from 20 something). No doubt that will increase the price in states that have tougher emissions standards (California for instance). Also, emissions from power plants will be more dirty.
It's unbelievable that they can build a refinery on taxpayer land (federal property), get subsidized to do it and be able to build one even if the local area doesn't want it! There are even fiscal penalties for slowing them down with such "trivialities" as safety/environmental concerns.
Simply repulsive. But, I think there is much more disgusting stiff on the way. Look for the Repugs to argue we need more tax cuts (including the estate tax elimination) to "stimulate" the economy now that the hurricanes slowed it down. These people don't miss a trick.
Ok, I am doing a dose of NyQuil, I have had a cold all week long.
1) Blog still signs me out.
2) There is only one way to beat them, and that is to create an acceptable alternate fuel source, and get it into the public domain before the Oil Companies stop you.
Hi gang, Just a drop in to catch up and say 'hello'...
Who on earth is this Firfly creature? What a jerk. It must not know how protectective we are of each other. 'Specially {{Jen}}...hi Miss Lady. Hope the bar will be open soon...Later
Posted by DPD on October 8, 2005 at 09:57 PM
Hey Old Man! My Dad did that!
William!!!!! NO NO that is too twisted! LOLOL!
Love SciFi first, comedy second (army of darkness indeed one of the funniest movies out there)
If I remember right, Jon Stewart once said it's almost as if bush believes that if we keep throwing money at the oil companies, there will come a day when they get tired of it. Although that sounds more like Rob Cordray as I type it.
Oct 17 after the Daily Show - the new show with the other guy? should be good as well. I forget his name now. He does "a day in god"
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 8, 2005 at 10:17 PM
yessir
Tonito! Good to see you! What is the special of the houzzze?
tonito, good to see you son. how is it going in the peachtree or peachpie state or whatever its called. think i'll have a bit of stoli.
One of these days I will open a bottle of Champaigne I bought, but it is no fun drinking when you have a cold.
Hey, ALL
Finally cought up.
Firefly, you secession idea is a PIPI DREAM (and don't Bogart it)
Split into 2 separate Countries.
Houston (TX) runs Cape Kennedy (FL) and Colorado runs MINOT N.Dak.
So, all the liberal east coasters will have to deal with the Red Staters having and controlling ALL THE NUKES AND LAUNCH SITES?
Nice dream, but if dreams were reality we all would be invisible in Paris Hilton's hotel rooms, or grow wings and fly to Vegas for the weekend.
How are you going to reconcile that Urban areas and College towns are DEM? Slice and dice the map so there are 1,000 dem Islands in a sea of Pubes?
William
especially not when you are taking cold meds - !! uberbuzz not heart healthy!
It's getting bluer and bluer Gregg, believe it or not after Katrina. The people here are pissed.
Dawn, the house special tonite is whatever you are having.
mwah!
good to know some good might come out of all that suffering.
i see the governments plan for helping us thru a flu pandemic is to write off about 2 million people as corpses. nice touch after the recent fiascos...did someone elect these morons and if so would they please report to the principals office immediately!
Posted by DPD on October 8, 2005 at 10:22 PM
you nut! watch out Schube and I were two that voted for a split (at one time) LOL
I think we should just give everyone a years notice to pack up and get out OR live by the laws of the new lands. Hell Europe is all under the Euro yet each country has their OWN ideas on MOST other things. No one is fighting one another in Belgium over Amsterdam or France (that I know of)
Colbert!! YES and (quoting the commercial) "it's French Baby"
hahahha!
Tonito - something sparkling! (in a blush tone) dahlink!! ;-)
I love you people - let's not fight!
Posted by rjsnj on October 8, 2005 at 10:05 PM
I read in the Pubie "Chicago Tribune" that when Carter left Office there were almost 550 Refineries operating. Now there are 135.
About 3 months ago there was a contersant on "Jeopardy" who, during the Q & A part told Alex the Wreck that he was in the business of selling oil refineries to Thailand and Cambodia.
Alex asked him "How do you ship an pil refinery?"
The guy said "By Boat", and Alex moved on to someone who has a collection of SpiderMan crap, or something like that.
Hell, bush is going to send Bird Flu to any county that voted against him in 2004, including those that he won ONLY because he cheated. As a result, anyone who disagrees with him will die, and he can become Emperor in the resulting National Emergency.
{{{Will}}} I would like to watch Constant Gardner. Is it on PPV? I've not watched much tv lately, so I don't know. Please get well.
DPD!!! That makes their registration numbers go up! (having an anxiety over it, but I'll survive)
As much as I'd like to, can't stay to have a drink. I'm almost finished with the novel I was reading and want to turn in early. It's "hard work" going to school & a job. You all might not believe me if I told you I haven't cleaned my house this weekend. There is always tomorrow! haha
I did have a nice chat with my "connection" on the ODP state board committee about Hackett & Brown. He also said there will be a week long "tour" when Zach Space announces his intentions to run for 18th Congressional seat.
Peaceful rest, everyone.
dpd did you ever go to the zoo?
and the zoo keeper is very fond of rum...
Evening Tonito!
Serve me up a wine...oh just give me the whole bottle! I am sure I can find some nice people that would like to share it.
bleujae is jaline? why does everyone keep doin this stuff with the identities?
The only thing dumber than a Republican or a Democrat is when these pricks work together! --Lewis Black
LOL gregg - Mt. Gay is the best Rum Mon! ;-)
although that's not my personal fav - cpt. morgan (silver) with pineapple juice , grenadine and some coconut liquer....... yum
oh wait I can't drink w/all these meds
only in cyberville
gregg! Keep up!
...didn't you read??? I wanted change...it felt good. haha
I thought the new name was funny, what with all the fuss about spelling words correctly. I give credit to Eli.
Now, I'm really gonzo.
hey who was that asshole murgen earlier? makin fun of my name and askin about nuclear power and all. must be back at the yellow pad trying to dream up some more really clever stuff.
I stopped being a fanatic (almost anal-retentive in my case) about house cleaning when I moved back in with MOM.
It's just not worth the fights over her endless cracker crumbs I find all OVER the counters after she puts peanut butter on them almost nightly!!! AGhhhh!
So I'm recovering nicely! It's been almost 3 yrs now. hehe!
i sure hope rush can be indicted on the same day as rove. that way they could be cuffed together and share a cell. and then rush's mistress could stop by and pet their domes at the same time.
Posted by gregg on October 8, 2005 at 10:33 PM
Yes Greggggggg, (jerk doens't know the dif between GregG and GregL, must not have gotten the memo, we're All afectacious)
Kids loved it. The 6th grader hasn't been there since Kindergarten, and the Soph sorta remembers being there when "was little" .
Monday is Invade America and kill the Natives day, so the kids are out of school. I volunteered to keep an eye on them so their mother doesn't have to miss a day of work.
I'm taking them to the Planetarium (which is right next to the Field Museum, so ... maybe a quick peek at "Sue").
Any hints?
You may have seen this . . . Dr. Dean's approach to dragging the party into the 21st century.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/REBUILDING_DEMOCRATS?SITE=LAMON&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Posted by tonitobandito on October 8, 2005 at 10:40 PM
:-( yes he did and the retina is not torn but actually detached! He goes in for surgery MONDAY which screws him up totally but such is life on the salty sea.
looks like the toll in pakistan from the earthquake is up to 18,000.another horror.
Posted by gregg on October 8, 2005 at 10:42 PM
LOL the walls are shaking
dunno much about it dpd but here is a post on the exhibit in case you didn't see it:
sue
Posted by DPD on October 8, 2005 at 10:44 PM
extremely jealous!! I remember the Field Museum as a kid! We went there occasionally from Merriville.
Planetariums are the absolute MOST fun!!
time for tv. nice to see you all tonite. raining like a mutha here all day and nite. got us one wet smelly pup we do. and crazy as a bed bug.
Fine just slide in - give us your best one liners and exit stage left!
fine!
lol j/k gnite gregg!
I was just reading about the number dead in Pakistan. How very sad.
Tonito, sure pop it open.
Oh, I go to ALL the Museums A LOT ( although haven't been to the Planetarium since the LAST (which isn't) renovation. I'm a member of most of them.
I saw Sue (and Tut) on the opening weeks.
I just was curious if there was any Grade school / High School crossover stuff to keep them both occupied (besides the Pizza Hut in the basement....oh, wait. That's Science and Industry).
They liked that Winter adaptation thing you posted for me last week, and used it to identify what was happening NOW to all the animals. (Didn't like the SNAKES) Kids, can't please them, can't let them get bored.
When we all got back to my place the kids were fascinated by the video Slot Machine, so their mother taught them how to play it. "Just sit there and lose all the imaginary money, and Keep Quiet"
Man that is SAD news out of Pakistan. Over 18,000 dead and 41,000 wounded. TRAGIC. The Earth is trying to shake humanity off it's back. Evidently we're not killing each other off quickly enough.
Truly, truly sad Chuck. I liked the way you put it, that belongs in quotes.
TRAGIC. The Earth is trying to shake humanity off it's back. Evidently we're not killing each other off quickly enough.
Yeah Lizzy. LizzyBeth, huh? That's cute. Things are getting out of control. Natural and "man"made.
Here are some dipshits
Dawn Dawn my down south bud! How ya doing? I voted on your new poll, btw. That was a tough one you know.
Hey. Has anyone heard from Carl in Muncie? He hasn't updated his blog for a month and I haven't seen or heard from him. I hope he's alright.
I was just happy to see the Sarge posting! (dewey)
but you are right. Carl where for art thou?
I think I saw where Dewey posted the other day.
You'd be surprised Dawn at all of the old names from last year that never post any more. There's a bunch!
Just how desperate are we?
A few good elderly men and women
Marion Heacock is a 77-year-old Bethlehem woman of German extraction.
So imagine her surprise when she received the following letter from the Marines:
''The United States military is in need of your service.
http://www.mcall.com/news/columnists/all-5good-aoct08,0,3796641.column
Posted by Bleujae on October 8, 2005 at 10:38 PM
all the fuss about spelling? did i miss something? damn!
I just figured you were trying to be French.
Au Revoir, mes amies.
p.s. Lewis Black on HBO was KICKASS!
Lewis Black was great. I think you can buy that at Best Buy.
What do any of you think of these people that keep coming in here trying as hard as they can to stop us from what they keep refering to as "Bashing Bush"?
I think its bullshit Domingo! They don't have to participate if they don't like it, but if any pResident deserved to have the despicable truth of what he does broadcasted far and wide, it's him. We get no help from the media.
I heard they were paid by the RESPONSE. It always happens when Shit for Brains comes closer to ending the World, or his numbers go down.
Whichever comes first. (And It's a REAL Race, now)
I think they're Repub trolls trying to keep the Bush administration's crimes quiet. They don't want anyone to "spill the beans" or "let the cat out of the bag".
They keep using a veriation of the same old con that goes something like this, "I'm a former Republican and I want to vote Democrat and I would if only you guys would stop bashing Bush".
I don't submit to blackmail, and I don't believe these guys would ever vote Democrat regardless of what we do.
Another con veriation they use is to tell us they are 'only trying to help us'. They say, "You know, you'll get more people to vote for you if you would just stop bashing Bush".
I think you're probably right Domingo. They can say stop bashing bush all they want. i will not stop telling the truth about him and if they say that's bashing, so be it. he's bashed the living SHIT of our country until it's down on the ground in the fetal position bleeding and no one beyond a few seem to give a shit.
And the good old "I'm a VET" Bs, and when asked to name unit, and theater they give some shit they heard about, but the dates don't jibe.
My brother was in Phu Bia, An Loc, Da Nang, And other places. I know the names. I was a Jr. in HS.
Doesn't mean I can claim to be there, but I can find them on a map, as opposed to these punks who claim shit, but won't Support the troops by going oner there and letting a few come hime.
I'm not going to help cover up anybody's crimes no matter how much the Repugs don't like it. And these ones that keep saying they're 'moderates' and they too want us to stop 'bashing Bush' are just the same freeper trolls pretending to be 'moderates' to fool us. Why would any non-freeper want to see Karl Rove and scooter Libby get away with outing a CIA agent? Or Tom DeLay get away with laundering campaign money? Or Bush Jr letting people sit in New Orleans to die? No, these folks are trying too hard to shut us up. Something's going here. We must be doing some damage.
I think you're dead on, Domingo. I don't understand their b.s. It doesn't make sense. These people that screamed bloody murder about a b.j. but have no problem with 2000 of our kids dying for NOTHING.
I didn't know about your brother, that must have been hard. Did he come home okay?
Hi everyone! I agree, we need to shout the truth from werever we are, it should not be supressed
(is this a word). As mentioned by someone earlier President Clinton bashing is still happening, five (I miss the Clinton years) years later.
And ... when Bill Clinton was President people did not have to sign loyalty oaths to get to see him. Was very lucky some years back to see both President Clinton and the Pope in Colorado.
DPD, My mother was the youngest of ten kids. Both she and my father were too young for WWII but all her older bothers were over there. My dad was in Korea. Moms told me about this guy she still knows from their age group and even to this day he's always telling these stories about the heroic things he did over there in battle and what awful things "the Reds" did to him when they captured him. But she's known him almost all her life and she knows he never served. Some of these Right Wingers are delusional, I tell ya.
Posted by Domingo on October 9, 2005 at 01:36 AM
I knew someone since 1st Grade who never bothered opening a book in his entire life (and to this day can only "PRINT", not write cursive) but he was politically connected through his relatives.
He failed the Constitution Test (REQUIRED for Graduation from HS in Illinois) the magic number of 3 times. He even offerred to pay me $25.00 if I took it for him, (Like the teachers wouldn't recognize me--the Honors Student)
Anyway, He had to go to Summer School in order to take it an UNPRECEDENTED 4th time, and his parents paid me $100.00 A WEEK to tutor him (1971)
He had NO prospects to get into ANY College, and he flunked FIRST GRADE AND 4th Grade, so the only thing keeping him out of the Draft was HS.
On his 18th B-Day (when he was STILL a Junior) he flew to the Nat'l Guard center to get signed up , and they laughed his sorry ass out of the building. He then went to the Navy Reserve office, and had his Politician Relatives write glowing letters about him, AND HE GOT IN!!!!
When his 6 years were up, so was he.
Years later, when Harold Washington became Mayor, Harold said "Now, WHY are these rich people from the suburbs parking their boats in my harbors, and not paying taxes to maintain the harbors?" So, he raised mooring fees for non-residents. (Rightly so)
This over a decade lapsed Naval Reservist was PISSED and shopped around for a better harbor than Monroe, and found out that 40 Bucks a year was a bargain for him, but a rip off for Joe TaxPayer.
So, OVER 10 years later, he re-upped w/ the NR, just to park his Sailboat at Great Lakes Naval Training Base, for$40 BUCKS!!
When Gulf War I started, he was all of the sudden "I'm a career Navy Man..." and saying he was in since "NAM"
BS, Buddy. He was a draft dodger who used his relatives to get out of the way, and after both of his parents died and made him an instant millionaire he turns Ditto Head PUBE.
(Also, he would blow guys for cigarettes in high school, but started into the Rush "Clinton wants to let GAYS into MY Military!!)
typical Hippp - ohhh - KRITT
WD wants an answer to this question:
So in other words, unlimited money for war, none for what it takes to run the country of America, right? Yep, your a hard core Repug. How you gonna pay for all this hawkish defense with all your fiscal conservativism? Put it on the "bar tab" for future generations to pay?
Posted by WD on October 8, 2005 at 05:44 PM
=====================================
WD, I'm somewhat of a Constitutionalist. One of the Jobs of the Federal Government is war. In fact we used to have a War Department. Then we went all squeamish and called it the Defence Dept.
However I'm going to answer your question with a question. WW2 cost 50% of GDP for 4 years. How did we pay for it? The Cold War averaged around 10% of GDP for 40 years. We wound up richer, the Soviets bankrupt. How is that possible?
So far this war is costing 6% of GDP. Money wise. Traffic accidents are 20 times deadlier than Iraq. So the question is: if we managed WW2 and the Cold War how is this one going to break the bank?
BTW I do not expect to change any positions here. What I'm trying to do, evidently without much success, is to give you a taste of why reasonable peole might reasonably disagree. So you can get more votes.
The fact that 70% are unhappy with the war is not necessisarily a plus for the Dems. Suppose 1/3 of that 70% say that Bush is not fighting it vigorously enough? That fraction does not translate into Dem votes. Unless you are running Lieberman.
LOL.
Posted by Will_Matney on October 8, 2005 at 06:32 PM
Will,
As long as America is stronger than the next 10 militarys in the world another WW2 is unlikely. Which is a good thing.
As tonot enough troops - well sure. We had enough to take Iraq. Enough to hold it. Not enough to pacify it. Which is where the Iraqi Army comes in. Which is as it ought to be. It is their country after all and they should fight for it if they want to keep it.
The new battles on the Syrian border give a clue. American troops with assistance from the Iraqis are taking back towns. The Iraqis are then left in place to hold the towns. So far it is working. The Iraqi Army has no shortage of recruits. Every stupidcide bomber brings more recruits to the army.
In 7 days another election. Another in December.
BTW in counterinsurgency warfare popularly elected government is the death of effective insurgency. The military stuff is really just a holding action. The real test is elections.
The "L Word" and it's not liberal...
Maybe this is why so many evangelicals are cold toward the Bush nominee? A rumor in the form of a question is quickly spreading on Capital Hill. Is SJC nominee Harriet Meirs a Lesbian? The never married 60 year old Meirs is now considered suspect by right wing extremists. Being attacked for her lack of judicial philosophy might be cover for her supposed lack of a "traditional" lifestyle. No wonder Cheney called in to Limbaugh to give her a boost.
gregg,
Your unwillingness to work with Republicans even if they can help you solve problems you want solveded is quite telling.
What you are in effect saying is that Democrats are more important than America. More important than the world. A pretty strange attitude for a party that "really cares".
Hitler had a similar attitude towards Jewish science.
I just had a funny thought. Maybe it was called the Manhattan Project because of all the Jews working on it. Kind of like a genteel version of Jessie Jackson's "HymieTown".
Speaking of Hymies. I'm glad Rickover was one of ours.
Am I far enough topic yet?
Oh, open thread? Well never mind.
Posted by WD on October 8, 2005 at 06:39 PM,
Yes. Am in agreement. Although you must also consider that if we want more electricity in two years we have to order the plants today. I thinkmore discretionary funds in the hands of the army would be a good thing. Or even - the Army suggests projects - the American people raise the funds privately. If Dems sponsored something like that I'd ggive. As I said for me as many others in the middle it is policy not party.
So far yours is the first effective criticism of policy that has a chance of changing my voting pattern.
Well done!
We really need two effective parties in America.
Good morning any/all,
Could not sleep; decided to check out what's up, catch-up, etc. Sad about Afghanistan/Pakistan; man, those people have had a shit-life forthe past 35 years. First, the Soviets, then the Taliban, and then the U.S. What can God be thinkin'? Whatever it is I'm sure light will come out of it in time.
Well WD here I thought you were taking a more rationalist view. Then you go and post this:
Posted by WD on October 8, 2005 at 07:03
PMKrag, what you need to realize is that the Democratic party is "infiltrated" by Republicans. They call themselves the DLC and they side with the Repubs on "everything". Don't give up on the entire Democratic party. We have to expose them and clean them out, otherwise we'll keep on losing every election and every Republican bill for war, tax cuts for the wealthy, and taking our American rights away will continue to be passed with their help.
Democrats cannot win elections in America. There are not enough of them.
Republicans cannot win elections in America. There are not enough of them.
Both sides need the middle to win. The Dems more so than the Rs.
Shrinking the tent is not a good way to go. The DLC represents the right edge of the party. The middle in America is further right yet. Without a DLC that is welcomed in the party how do you appeal to the middle?
The only way to be sure Iraq does not become the threat it was posited to be before the war, a safe haven for terrorists, is to raise the standard of living and the expectations of the people, creating a country of "haves" who don't tolerate terrorists and thugs, and who have confidence their government and security force will back them up.
Posted by WD on October 8, 2005 at 06:39 PM
MSimon,
I applaude this comment by WD, and your agreement to it.
However, how can we vacillate with our present administration about helping create wealth and opportunity in Iraq when all of their policies here equate to only assisting the rich to get richer at the expense of the working class??
Shrinking the tent is not a good way to go. The DLC represents the right edge of the party. The middle in America is further right yet. Without a DLC that is welcomed in the party how do you appeal to the middle?
Posted by MSimon on October 9, 2005 at 03:46 AM
MSimon,
Alienation is not the proper course for Dems to win elections, I agree. However, I disagree when you say, "The middle in America is further right yet." Middle America is disenfranchised from the political process because of the process; sick of it, sick from it, tired of it, tired from it. This political reality works well for the upper middle class, which I agree is further right than the DLC.
BTW WD,
Lowering tax rates has increased tax revenue. And increased economic activity.
The tax question is: do we reduce tax income and economic activity to punish the wealthy, or do we let those with the most money earn more so we all in time can get richer?
Growing economies lead to great wealth imbalances. They also lead to those on the bottom doing better - more tax revenue to help the poor, more jobs. Think dot com boom where the minimum wage went to about $7 an hour without government intervention. We actually had a labor shortage raising the value of labor even at the bottom.
I'd let the richest get 50 times richer if it meant the poor doing twice as well.
Most poor people in America own cars. 50% of the bottom 20% own houses. This is astounding. What is also astounding that the top 1% pay something like 40% of taxes i.e. they own the government. I'm not sure this is a good idea.
Socialism is dead. The question then is how do we make capitalism work for every one without socialising it? My answer is education and research. We really get richer because of what we know and learn. It is not just labor and capital that add value. Just some guy sitting around thinking can too.
Bucky Fuller wrote a lot about this. May I commend his works to you?
BlackLikeMe,
The Dems are losing touch with the middle. I'm there. I'm part of the middle that votes. I swing elections.
I'm probably upper middle clas in my political attitudes. Unfortunately my economics don't match. LOL.
The thing is I swing (not that way - my wife would kill me). Had the Dems run Lieberman he would have gotten my vote. My mom voted Kerry but just swooned over Lieberman. There was a candidate we both agreed on.
Between Kerry and Bush - I liked Bush better. I thought Kerry would leave Iraq before they could take care of themselves. Right or wrong he left that impression with me.
if you are talking about R. Buckminster Fuller (whom I've met and talked with extensively) I'd be interested in seeing your info.
I was a member of the Fuller Institute since it was located at 3501 Market Street, Philly PA.
They moved to California in the early (ish) 80's.
If you don't know how to link, I'll be happy to "Hot link" for you.
Just copy and paste the URL
MSimon,
Capital does not make a hilly-squat on its own!! An example I often prefer goes like this:
A person inherited a hundred million bucks when his rich relative died. This person new the market of widgets was ready for the supreme widget, produced in a state-of-the-art manufacturing facility, and with this new wealth procured the finest facility and the absolute top quality materials in which to porduce these supreme widgets.
This person then envisioned his capital expanding as these supreme widgets hit the marketplace. However, the supreme widgets never hit the marketplace, the capital gone. What happened? What did this person forget? What does the capitalist NEED just as much as capital to increase capital?
BlackLikeMe,
There is only one thing that improves the life of the masses and that is improvements in technology.
For whatever reason (the economics is another long dissertation) capitalism promotes doing more with less.
As an altruist what I would do for the poor is put the system in over drive. Remove as many impediments to business as possible. More growth. Lower taxes.
In fact I would have taxes on business go to zero. Get the economy booming.
====================
My #2 son is going to the University of Chicago on John D. Rockefeller's money. 100% scholarship. Wealth and knowledge diffuse over time.
Forget the 5 year plan. Think 100 year plan.
And.....If you have EVER seen his ectures where he starts by listing the Chart of Basic Elements (after the original 8) and the Wars, he makes a POINTED analogy that discovery in linked directly to the efficiency of travel, and the decline of science.
The ability to travel spread War, which correllated exactly to the drop in inventions and discoveries.
He also overlaid that with inventions, and GUESS WHAT? They ALSO dropped in time of WAR.
Further on in his lectures he AGAIN overlaid the rise of PERSONAL rights, then Civil Rights, and also the rise of Labor Unions.
Guess what? During War Time, ALL those things either fell flat or dropped.
Bucky taught at SIU. Did you go there?
Learning how to drink beer at "America's Number 1 Party School" in the 70's and 80's , and hanging out at Thompson Point or Crab Orchard Lake doesn't mean you absorbed his lectures.
Please post the URL, and I will "HOT LINK" it for you.
And BTW, there is a new Element:
R. Buckminster Fullerene. (one word) It's shaped like a GeoDesic Dome, or a Soccer Ball, ergo the name.
The guy made it!! Periodic Table!
Whoo Hoo! Good for Bucky!!
Furthering my discourse about the importance of labor in producing wealth, and increasing capital, just look what is happening to labor in America. You are correct, MSimon, to point to the dotcom years of the 1990's in indication on the fuel it added to the economy. However, you are incorrect to omit the fact that the Clinton Administration forced "trickle-down economics" to work the way Reagan had wished it had. Yes, Clinton raised taxes on upper income Americans. Yes, Reagan cut taxes on upper income Americans. Now that Bush has cut taxes (as with Reagan) on upper income Americans we can see more clearly the economic impact.
The Clinton economy was not totally driven by the dotcom industry that overheated and restructured. The Clinton economy was driven simply by placing monewy in the hands of the people so often expected to raise the economy out of recession; not the capitalists, rather the consumers.
Returns on capital encourage good management.
The Soviets eliminated returns on capital from their system and so capital was allocated in a worse way than in our system (which has its faults to be sure - too much crony capitalism instead of cost/benefit investing - too much using the government for guarenteed profits).
Business has three legs - two are physical - capital and labor. One is metaphysical - better ideas. You can't leave anything out of the equation.
Capital is important for resource allocation. If labor unions were any good at it they would be running businesses instead of working for them.
And most of all these days we need the thinkers. They are the real core of our prosperity.
(which has its faults to be sure - too much crony capitalism instead of cost/benefit investing - too much using the government for guarenteed profits).
Posted by MSimon on October 9, 2005 at 04:48 AM
MSimon,
"...Zero taxation for businesses"? Is not that the same as "using governments for guarenteed profits"?
Good nite DPD :-)
Have a good Sunday, or sundae, whatever your flavor?
The Soviets believed in marxism. Giant factories, guarenteed employment for all in society (no matter the economics), the government should and could attend to all the needs of its citizens. There was no need for efficiency or effective processes because the government was bankrolling it all. It did not work?? The Soviet Union fell from the weight of its own inefficiency, and also cronyism and greed. Most people want to believe that our bankrolling the defense industry is what brought down "the wall." Instead, our budgeting history almost brought our country down in the 70's and 80's, and we once again find ourselves in the same situation in the name of fighting another invisible enemy (terrorist; seemingly similar to communists).
DPD,
I can hot link. I don't have any Bucky links here. I do have some on the side bar at my site.
I had the good fortune to live in Bucky's Carbondale Dome for two weeks as guest of the owner (not Bucky).
I must have gone to about 20 or 30 Bucky talks. Bought most of his books. Even have a geodesic dome model I built that he signed. I've 5 or 6 books of his that he signed.
So yeah. I'm a big fan.
As to War. It sucks. Yet Bucky ran the War Production Board in WW2. So I don't think he was against all wars.
He also thought the USSR would defeat the USA in the cold war.
I think his problem was comparing capitalism to perfection.
BTW Bucky balls - C60 - were named after Bucky. He did not invent them or discover them or name them.
The invention rate is such these days that it is not much affected by war. In any case I'm doing for the current nutters what we should have done for Hitler in 1924. Read his plan and believe he means it. By 1934 we should have figured it out.
Well our enemies today have similar goofy ideas. They are serious. We ought to accord them the honor of taking them seriously. It could save a lot of lives.
BTW blundering in war is the norm. So the fact that things seem to be going badly does not discourage me. I see over time bad policies discarded and other one's tried. Slow and painful. As all insurgency wars are.
The Spanish are still not fully recovered fron the insurgency against Napoleon.
Good morning, Democrats
My letter of the day:
To the editor:
Senator Feingold's call for the removal of U.S. combat troops from Iraq is a good start but it's not nearly enough. That's because what the people of Iraq are objecting to is what those troops are protecting--the building of permanent U.S. bases from which all of the Eastern Hemisphere can be targeted by our nuclear missiles and bombs.
Oh, yes, Secretary Rumsfeld has stated that we are not building "permanent" bases. But that's because he defines a permanent base as a place where our troops bring their families and kids go to school like they've been doing in West Germany for the last fifty years.
American military families aren't going to want to live in the deserts of Iraq. So, the engineers and technicians who service the missiles and bombers and satelite tracking stations will be rotated in and out on a short term basis.
For that matter, the maintenance personnel might not be in the military at all. Perhaps the care and comfort of our nuclear weapons will be outsourced to Halliburton. We just don't know. Because, like the building of al Udeid in Kuwait, it's all top secret. But, you can bet your bottom dollar that the "insurgents" on the ground know what's going on and they don't like it. Big surprise.
Consumers will, and willingly do, contribute to the welfare of capitalists even more than any governmental tax cut (corporate welfare) program. However, how can they continue to do this when their capacity is continually stripped from them in the form of lower wages for more work?
We already have zero taxation on unprofitable business.
I don't think it helps.
The ideal would be that the most profitable busineses grow fastest. Higher honest profits = better use of resources.
A brutal painful system. Better than all the others at producing wealth and raising living standards.
Since unprofitable businesses already pay no taxes I would level the playing field by giving profitable business the same advantage.
Good morning Monica!!:)
I have to be going, get a shower, get breakfast for my little guy, hopefully he'll want to go into Sunday school class today; ulike last week:(
BlackLikeMe,
It is the uneducated who are getting squeezed the most.
So tell me why our school systems (K-12) run by Democrat Unions are almost uniformly bad?
In any case the labor squeeze has been going on for at least 150 years. Is labor living better today than 150 years ago? Is central heating and running water and modern medicine more available today or 150 years ago?
Is such a system in decline?
So far I don't see it.
We already have zero taxation on unprofitable business.
I don't think it helps.
Posted by MSimon on October 9, 2005 at 05:27 AM
In fact I would have taxes on business go to zero. Get the economy booming.
====================
Posted by MSimon on October 9, 2005 at 04:34 AM
MSimon,
I am contending that tax cuts for businesses is akin to corporate welfare, and place an unnecessary tax burden on others that can least afford it.
Posted by MSimon on October 9, 2005 at 05:38 AM
Most of the advances came from, as you well pointed to, inventions, innovations, and better technology which were driven by the need to be more efficient.
Public school teachers are associated with labor unions, but the union does not run the school. Labor unions are mainly a voice of the employees for collective bargaining and conflict resolution. A voice that the labor market needs in many, if not most, cases.
MSimon,
Thanks for the discourse!:)
All have a good day I must be going. Keep it real, and keep it burnin'!!
Monica,
I'mwith you. Pull the troops out of Germany. Let the South Koreans defend themselves. Same for Japan.
Let us hold on in Iraq until they have 50 years of prosperity and then pull out of there too.
In recent polls when asked 60% of Americans say they don't like the way the war is going.
Also 60% say immediate pull out is not a good idea.
However, 60% of all Americans say med pot is a good idea.
Perhaps the Dems are fighting the wrong war.
bill bennett is trying to explain himself. there is no need. we know how hard he has fought to bring justice to the oppressed all over the globe....ha,ha,ha,ha.....if he had just won that big lucky pot in vegas he would have bought every homeless kid in america a nice house in the burbs....do these shit heads ever dry up and blow away?
To read the latest dispatch from Iraq and a letter to Amnesty International on the validity of the proposed constitution
click
Democrats on James Dobson 2006 hitlist
Ben Nelson Nebraska, Robert Byrd West Virginia, Kent Conrad North Dakota, Jeff Bingaman New Mexico and Bill Nelson of Florida heh heh need to watch that race closely it will be ground zero next year.
Unfortunately the GOP can't find candidates who are willing to run next year. Shelly Capito, the GOP favorite has refused to run against Byrd. Republican John Hoeven of North Dakota has said he will not run for the senate next year. The field is shrinking almost as though it were an act of God.
Good Morning, Everyone!
Todays Picture
Still drizzly & cool here. I guess sealing the driveway is for another weekend.
Dobson actually has far less political clout than he believes, although Karl Rove attempts to make him feel important, by offering some information to him.
Dobson organized a political event recently, however when the event came it wasn't even important enough for Dobson to interrupt his Hawaii vacation to attend the event.
Dobson has an inflated view of his power within the republican party, where the biggest financial contributors are being appointed as ambassadors, or other friends such as Alberto Gonzales, Michael Brown and Harriet Miers are offered other positions as a friendship awards by Bush. Dobson is not a part of either group. He is neither a good friend of Bush, or a large financial contributor so his actual power within republican politics is far more limited than the inflated sense of self that Dobson views himself through.
2006 should be a year of resurgence for democrats. Bush lost the 2000 election by 500,000 and was only made president by the Supreme Court. And his narrow 51% victory over John Kerry was only due to unfair character attacks like the Swift Boats Vets and by an appeal to fears of terrorism still fresh enough after 9/11 to draw votes. It doesn't seem reasonable that the republican philosophy is the majority philosophy in America. The more moderate appeal of democrats to working families, hope for minorities, and views closer on Iraq should give them an edge in 2006.
PROGRESSIVE VALUES
Happy birthday, JK
If ever there was a legend in his own lifetime, it is John Kenneth Galbraith, professor emeritus of Harvard University, adviser to Presidents from Roosevelt to Kennedy and Lyndon Johnson, author of more than 40 books, and a man due to celebrate his 97th birthday next Saturday.
Known as JK Galbraith to most and Ken to his close friends, he is the tallest (at 6ft 8in) and oldest economist in America. He is also the most famous living economist in the world - and indeed the best-selling.
I'm a huge fan of John Kenneth Galbraith, Bleujae. I have every one of his books.
What I like about John Kenneth Galbraith is that it involves many constructive economic views including some that are socialist in nature. The reality is that socialism is a good answer to some issues such as providing social goods to many in the American public. The term "socialism" often has negative traits connected to it nowadays. But in the 30's and 40's, it provided the basis for many of the economic reconstruction goals of FDR from the economic ruin of the Great Depression.
The Great Depression radicalized many unemployed workers who joined socialist or communist organizations, or voted for socialist or communist candidates in American elections.
Socialist and communist party candidates drew an oncreasingly high percentage of the vote in the late 20's and early 30's, but largely collapsed as a political force in America after FDR was able to co-opt their best and most workable views on economic issues and with wage and price controls and WPA projects as part of NRA(National Recovery Act), and the economic disaster of the Hoover republican administration was rebuilt into an economic resurgence of America as an economic powerhouse where American workers lives were greatly improved, and the American middle class was created, and American industry was kept from financial collapse and was able to respond to the Nazi and Japanese threat of WWII and produce the military arms to win that war for survival of democracy with the forces of facism.
I had a relative of John Kenneth Galbraith as a college professor, Gordon Galbraith in the economics I took in college.
PROGRESSIVE VALUES
Good morning! Watching MTP. If not for my anticipation of Desperate Housewives tonight, I'd take a sledge hammer to the TV!!
Total BS on the Miers nomination. It makes me sick!!
Pat Buchanan is pissed. I think it's kind of funny. It's also telling.
Friends, this appointment is the straw the broke the camel's back in the Repug party.
"Sometimes party loyalty asks too much."
Pat Buchanan
ROFLMAO!!
If the Democrats don't point out the irony of the whole "up or down" crap at this point, they are friggin idiots, and need to be replaced with people who have shit for brains, because the latter would be more intelligent.
No more talking to myself. I'm hitting the shower and heading out.
The Democrats shouldn't be sitting back, they need to shove these people's noses into it, and teach them not to screw the American People ever again!
Aw jeez, cry me a river. Listen to Republicans complain about Miers not expressing her views; yet they attacked us for wanting to know about Roberts?
If you decide to follow in lockstep with Hitler, you have to be willing to take it up the butt when he decides to betray you and yours, dumbfucks.
Anyone who backs bush at this point sounds as stupid as Britney Spears.
"Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision that he makes and we should just support that."
-- Britney Spears
The reason this second term is going downhill so fast is because you fucking cheated!
You cheated, and bush KNOWS, so he feels invincible. As such, he can turn on his own. Just like Hitler. Maybe the lesson you should take from this is DON'T CHEAT! You didn't have a majority; we did. You rigged the machines to make it look like you had the numbers; you didn't. You pretended it was because of Gay Marriage. It wasn't. That was your cover. And now that bush is screwing YOU, you have the nerve to whine and complain "How can he do this to us?" Go to Hell, you bastards. You screwed the country in your zeal to be number one at all costs.
You know, I notice they only let Republicans spin this crap, and this is hurting them today.
Interesting how LBJ got Thurgood Marshall into the Supreme Court.
MTP -- Meet the Press? Or Many Totalitarian Propagandists!?
Democrats on James Dobson 2006 hitlist
Ben Nelson Nebraska, Robert Byrd West Virginia, Kent Conrad North Dakota, Jeff Bingaman New Mexico and Bill Nelson of Florida heh heh need to watch that race closely it will be ground zero next year.
Unfortunately the GOP can't find candidates who are willing to run next year. Shelly Capito, the GOP favorite has refused to run against Byrd. Republican John Hoeven of North Dakota has said he will not run for the senate next year. The field is shrinking almost as though it were an act of God.
Posted by Richard on October 9, 2005 at 09:02 AM
-----------------------------------
Shelley, as most know is the daughter of Gov. Arch A Moore Jr. who spent 2-5 years down at the Russell, Ky. federal pen for fraud in 1990 right after he lost the election to Caperton. He pled guilty to receiving a bribe relative to a refund of a workers compensation tax from a coal executive. Now as I recall, if she's the only daughter of Arch, and I think she is, her, and her husband at the time was investagated for peddling dope. They quitened that up really quick once it was all over the news. She may be afraid that will pop back up if she runs against Byrd, or she knows she'll play hell winning.
Here's some more info on what she did a just little while back,
From the Charleston Gazette;
FEMA Worker Arrested, and Fired by FEMA, For Wearing Anti-Bush T-Shirts After Obtaining Tickets Given Out by Republican Member of Congress. Nicole Rank and her husband were lead away in handcuffs during the President’s July 4th visit to Charleston, WV for wearing t-shirts that said, “Love America, Hate Bush.” The couple was ticketed, released and given summonses to appear in court. Rank, who was working in West Virginia for the Federal Emergency Management Association, was taken off her assignment and sent home by the federal coordinating office for FEMA. FEMA officials refused to say whether she had been fired from her job, but her husband later revealed that she had been fired. Although the event was billed as an official presidential visit and not a campaign stop, Bush-Cheney campaign buttons were sold on the Capitol grounds. All those given access to the event had applied for tickets ahead of time, mainly from the office of Rep. Shelley Moore Capito, (R-W.Va), and were given a list of prohibited items that did not include political t-shirts, buttons or lapel pins. Those wearing pro-Bush t-shirts were left alone. [The Charleston Gazette, 7/9/04, 7/8/04]
LOL I was about to ask William if this was a private conversation he was having with himself or if I could jump in?
LOL just kidding! Love all the talk shows today!
McG Group now just dissing W to shreds!
Cokie said it best! He's appointing her to back him up for all the scandals coming down the road.
in so many words
Howdy, ALL
Interesting Editorial / Comment in todays Sun-Times:
Other Views
We remember the false as true
October 9, 200
Not a sliver of evidence links Saddam Hussein to the attacks of 9/11. Even the White House, while justifying the invasion of Iraq as integral to the war on terror, acknowledges this. Yet polls show that 45 percent of Americans still believe Saddam was involved.
How can this be? Well, consider this insight from a new study on false advertising, as reported in the Journal of Consumer Research:
"Telling people that a consumer claim is false can make them misremember it as true. In two experiments, older adults were especially susceptible to this 'illusion of truth' effect.
"Repeatedly identifying a claim as false helped older adults remember it as false in the short term but paradoxically made them more likely to remember it as true after a three-day delay. This unintended effect of repetition comes from increased familiarity with the claim itself but decreased recollection of the claim's original context.
"Findings provide insight into susceptibility over time to memory distortions and exploitation via repetition of claims in media and advertising."
Controversy editors
Posted by DPD on October 9, 2005 at 12:19 PM
oh wonderful now we're OUT analyzing ourselves to death!! sigh.
Hola Patrick!! You surf well!
Good Afternoon Democrats! From the loud complaints on the Sunday talk shows, the Republican base really looks pissed at George W. this morning. Maybe that bodes well for 2006.
Paul
That is an understatement on how they are pissed! HA! hehe!
if it doesn't bode well for 2006 we will KNOW for SURE they have rigged the machines!!
that's the logic I receive (from above) heh! ;-)
HA Oh my GOODNess! Late Edition just had a split screen and (I am dying laughing here) BenViniste (SP) had the biggest chit eaten grin I thought he was gonna bust!!!
We are so nice to not be gloating aren't we?
lmao! sigh! this is really soooooo good for my heart folks! I have to say.
Britney Spears was a Mouseketeer and so she could not be dumb.
Sad earthquakes crumbling the lives of so many in Pakistan :-(
Crumbling being the word for the week as W's inner cabal crumbles around him. I hear some theme music playing here. Dantes Inferno or something?
I'm History!
Happy Day to all!
chicagotribune.com >> Special report
TRIBUNE INVESTIGATION: PIPELINE TO PERIL
[0]
U.S. cash fuels human trade
By Cam Simpson and Aamer Madhani
Tribune staff reporters
Published October 9, 2005
American tax dollars and the wartime needs of the U.S. military are fueling an illicit pipeline of cheap foreign labor, mainly impoverished Asians who often are deceived, exploited and put in harm's way in Iraq with little protection.
The U.S. has long condemned the practices that characterize this human trade as it operates elsewhere in the Middle East. Yet this very system is now part of the privatization of the American war effort and is central to the operations of Halliburton subsidiary KBR, the U.S. military's biggest private contractor in Iraq.
To document this system, the Tribune retraced the journey of 12 Nepalese men kidnapped last year from an unprotected convoy en route to an American military base in Iraq. The Tribune's reporting found that:
Pipeline To Peril
I'll link to part 2 tomorrow.
Another story about that Halliburton Slavery scam that WE are paying for:
The journey of a dozen impoverished men from Nepal to Iraq reveals the exploitation underpinning the American war effort
Desperate for work, Lured to Danger
POLL QUESTIONS
I'm not sure if I can phrase this right, but I'm going to try.
1) What best describes your feelings towards the Republican/Conservative philosophy? (more than one answer is possible, just make sure they don't conflict or you'll confuse me.)
a) They're Americans also, and I don't object to their viewpoints, I only object when they commit crimes. An honest Republican government is fine with me and the things I hear from Republicans that take a public voice do not bother me.
b) They have a right to their views, but I find those views wholly reprehensible.
c) I don't object to most of the Republican platorm. I'm a Democrat because of one or two issues only. Those are _________________ .
d) Something other, please explain.
2) If I had to isolate my objection to the Republican/Conservative philosophy to ONE thing, it would be:
a) War-mongering and war-for-profit.
b) The attitude that the wealthy are a better cut of human being than everyone else, and they deserve more and owe nothing. They are entitled to whatever they take, legally or illegally, and the rest of us are lucky they're here.
c) The coziness they have with the religious fundamentalist faction. (Answer this one if you'd be pretty much accepting of them if they just stopped that).
d) Something different and other, which is....
3) I believe most Republicans can be persuaded to see that our Democratic way is best if the argument is framed correctly and often enough.
a) True
b) False
c) I don't care, I want them all run into the ocean like the lemmings they are.
There may be follow-up questions based on answers, which I'm looking forward to reading.
Here's my answers, in case anyone cares:
1) B
2) B
3) B for moderate Republicans, who really don't seem to exist outside of the northeast and a smattering on the west coast/C for the rest of them.
Clarification on poll
A convo I had with my husband points to the need to clarify question 3, which read:
3) I believe most Republicans can be persuaded to see that our Democratic way is best if the argument is framed correctly and often enough.
a) True
b) False
c) I don't care, I want them all run into the ocean like the lemmings they are.
The question is meant to ask if you think WE, Democrats and liberals, have the capacity to change the minds of most of these people if WE just frame the discussion right and repeat it often. Can WE change their minds?
Wasn't it nice and considerate for Al Quaeda to decide to blow up the New York subway on a Sunday? That's a humanitarian guesture of the first magnitude. After all, they could have blown it up during Friday rush hour. Probably more people on the subway then......
Or perhaps Sunday is the ideal time to deliberately cause a panic while not inconveniencing businesses and causing New York entrepreneurs to lose money. Sunday is a great day to pull a totally fabricated Homeland Security alert.....
Firefly,
If you had asked is a "few" republicans could be persuaded, I'd say yes, but NO for most republicans. All the rest B, same as you.
The question is meant to ask if you think WE, Democrats and liberals, have the capacity to change the minds of most of these people if WE just frame the discussion right and repeat it often. Can WE change their minds?
Posted by Firefly on October 9, 2005 at 01:59 PM
Maybe the question could be framed more fairly by asking: Are the Republicans capable of ever being intellligent and objective enough to see Truth and Justice(as we correctly see it)
Another question would be;
Do you think Christians would change their politics if the vail was lifted in that Democrats hold more Christian beliefs than the republicans do?
A - No
B - Yes
C - Other, please explain.
Afternoon, I think I will leave off the good..
Sonia Gandhi, chairperson of India's ruling coalition, on Sunday said the nation was standing with victims of the worst earthquake to hit Jammu and Kashmir and the government would rebuild all towns devastated by the temblor.
I have to post this. I was sorting my links earlier today, and my ex neighbor came over and asked me to come over to her house to fix her computer. I did so.
When I came home, I happened to read the last webpage I had sorted. It was a Clark Page, where they were talking about bush going AWOL:
http://AWOL Bush
Here is a post on that page, by someone named Nathan:
All these baseless slurs on Great Leader make me so mad I could spit. For instance, it's been alleged that despite scoring the lowest possible passing grade on pilot aptitude section of the air force officer's test, strings were pulled to bump him up to the front of a year and a half waiting list to get him into the Texas Air National Guard.
When the simple reality is that this preferential treatment had nothing at all to do with Great Leader's daddy being a Congressman -- rather, when interviewed by the Air Force recruiter, the recruiter was so incredibly impressed by Great Leader's steely resolve, whip smart intellect, and the aura of leadership that oozed out of every pore that the recruiter decided then and there to make Great Leader an Air Guardsman as quickly as possible, even though he was wholly ignorant at the time of Great Leader's family heritage.
Another outrageous and fraudulent allegation is that Great Leader failed to show up for his mandatory physical exam in August 1972 because he was aware that drug testing was being implemented, and he was worried about testing positive for cocaine. Wrong. The truth is that Great Leader's best friend in the Guard was in danger of being washed out, and Great Leader knew the only way to save his friend's job was to get himself grounded.
Similarly, the reason Great Leader failed to report for duty for some period of time -- 17 months, by some accounts -- has absolutely nothing to do with him being an irresponsible and pampered rich kid, and everything to do with his sterling qualities as an inspirational leader. The thing is, his flying skills were so highly developed that many of his peers had developed an acute inferiority complex, and his sabbatical from duty was simply Great Leader's thoughtful and considerate way of giving them a chance to catch up.
Want some proof? Well, the usual punishment for being AWOL was being transferred to active duty, and yet Great Leader applied and was granted an early discharge a full eight months before his hitch was up -- an action the National Guard was hardly likely to take if they were mad at him.
The proof of Great Leader's sterling record as a citizen/soldier is so completely obvious to anyone who bothers to delve into the subject that I'm sometimes amazed that I seem to be the only one who fully understands it. But hopefully this post will at least help to finally set the record straight.
And posts like the one above really SCREAM "We need emoticons", so that people would realize that this person must be in sarcasm mode.
Dawn, I wouldn't do monologues if there was someone else to converse with. Besides, I have fond memories of marsh's nightly diatribes. Sometimes his overnight posts had me spitting up coffee the next morning!
Ofercripessakes!! What are the Democrats DOING! First the DSCC courts Paul Hackett to run for Mike Dewine's Senate seat, and they clear the field, Sherrod Brown tells him he's not running and good luck, so Hackett commits and then Brown changes his mind and we have Schumer trying to kick Hackett to the curb. WHAT THE BLOODY HELL DOES THIS SAY ABOUT DEMOCRATS VALUES? I am just a LITTLE upset right now!
The evil investing our goverment that is the Republican party.
Republican tremors Sidney Blumenthal
A toxic mix of money and power has sustained Republicans in the United States for a generation. Sidney Blumenthal exposes a corrupt system approaching legal nemesis.
For thirty years, beginning with the Nixon presidency, advanced under Reagan, stalled with the elder Bush, a new political economy struggled to be born. The idea was pure and simple: centralisation of power in the hands of the Republican Party would ensure that it never lost it again.
Under George W Bush, this new system reached its apotheosis. It is a radically novel social, political and economic formation that deserves study alongside capitalism and socialism. Neither Adam Smith nor Vladimir Lenin captures its essence, though it has far more elements of Leninist democratic-centralism than Smithian free markets. Some have referred to this model as crony capitalism; others compare the waste, extravagance and greed to the Gilded Age. Call it 21st-century Republicanism.
At its heart the system is plagued by corruption, an often unpleasant peripheral expense that greases its wheels. But now multiple scandals engulfing Republicans – from the suspended majority leader in the House of Representatives, Tom DeLay, to super-lobbyist Jack Abramoff, to White House political overlord Karl Rove – threaten to upend the system. Because it is organised by politics it can be undone by politics. Politics has been the greatest strength of Republicanism, but it has become its greatest vulnerability.
The party runs the state. Politics drives economics. Important party officials are also economic operators. They thrive off their connections and rise in the party apparatus as a result of their self-enrichment. The past three chairmen of the Republican National Committee have all been Washington lobbyists.
An oligarchy atop the party allocates favours. Behind the ideological slogans about the "free market" and "liberty," the oligarchy creates oligopolies. Businesses must pay to play. They must kick back contributions to the party, hire its key people and support its programme. Only if they give do they receive tax breaks, loosening of regulations and helpful treatment from government professionals.
more at...Open Democracy
My hair is just on fire about this! I've always thought Sherrod Brown was one of the good guys! And then he goes and stabs Hackett in the back this way!
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/10/09/clinton.honored.ap/index.html
Good evening, my pretties! I know Hillary sparks controversy in our party, but what the heck:
Clinton inducted into women's hall of fame
Nine others enshrined
New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton once wanted to be an astronaut.
SENECA FALLS, New York (AP) -- Inspired by Alan Shepard, the first American to journey into space, a 14-year-old from suburban Chicago wrote a letter to NASA in 1961 asking what she needed to do to become an astronaut.
She got a curt reply: Girls are not being recruited by the nation's space program.
"It had never crossed my mind up until that point that there might be doors closed to me simply because I was a girl," recalled the letter writer, better known today as Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, as she was enshrined Saturday in the National Women's Hall of Fame, along with nine other inductees.
Hackett isn't pulling in the money that Sherrod can/has. Hackett also doesn't have the political finesse that Brown has. I think it's good for the Party. Let the best man win.
Hackett's campaign doesn't even have an up to date bio or picture for press releases.
Susan,
It's politics. They are jockeying behind the scenes. Sit back and watch for a while.
Maybe Hackett will be "groomed" for another State office.
Posted by Will_Matney on October 9, 2005 at 02:31 PM
Definitely. Who's going to lift the veil? Living in the south currently, I can tell you that they are indoctrinated down here from a very early age to believe in a distinctly Republican concept of God.
I find it hard to believe that can change because of anything we might do, at least not in significant enough numbers.
What would your answer to your question be?
Jockeying behind the scenes, yeah right. That's why when Hackett was being asked by Reid and Schumer to run, Brown looked him in the eye (in August) and announced his decision NOT to run. And now he goes back on his word. Looks like our party only welcomes newcomers when they absolutely have to, too disturbing to the nice comfy status quo and the sense of entitlement it engenders in those who think they only have to become "next in line" to get rewarded. Well, EFF THAT! It's one of the things that's WRONG with politics. And don't tell me with resignation that it's "just politics," because our standards should be higher than that and we should demand better than we're getting.
Hackett isn't being "groomed" for anything. He's being dismissed. Read this from the Cleveland Plain Dealer:
And when summer ended with no top Ohio Democrats willing to challenge DeWine, party leaders in Washington were happy to have Hackett jump into the void.
Indeed, only two weeks before Brown changed his mind, he said he had no regrets about his decision: "I love what I'm doing and it's hard to walk away from something you love," he said.
As for Hackett, he said: "He's smart, he's capable. He has a good understanding of the issues."
Not surprisingly, Brown's reversal has infuriated the Hackett camp. Hackett not only had begun assembling a staff in recent weeks, he also had bought a $130,000 motor home for campaigning around the state, says friend and adviser Michael Brautigam.
"He did that when he firmly committed to the race, right after Brown looked him in the eye, and said, 'I'm not running. Good luck,' " said Brautigam. "Politicians who shake someone's hand, look a person in the eye and say one thing and then do exactly the opposite is what's wrong with politics in America today."
Brautigam said Hackett is considering his options this weekend while on drill duty with the Marine Reserves. He said Hackett was dismayed by a phone call Thursday from New York Sen. Charles Schumer, head of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, hinting "that Paul should get out of the race." Hackett is "not interested in getting in a bloody internecine fight in a primary when the real target should be Mike DeWine," Brautigam said. But if Hackett doesn't run for the Senate, he said, he's likely to bow out of politics.
"Paul is truly not a professional politician. Being stabbed in the back by the Democratic Party will likely cause Paul to go back to his family and his small business, and the Democrats will continue their addiction to losing," said Brautigam.
Posted by letshelpdean on October 9, 2005 at 02:19 PM
Is that a more FAIR way to ask it...or a more honest way to ask it?
;-)
Corporations pay fixed costs in the form of legal graft to the party in order to suppress the market, drastically limiting competitive pressure. Then they collude to control prices, create cartels and reduce planning primarily to the political game. The larger consequences are of no concern whatsoever to the corporate players so long as they maintain access to the political players.
I read all that "stuff" posted by MSimon last night. Gee, so much Right Wing BS, were to begin. But anyway, if Republican run capitalism was so damn rightous and pure, then what's with all the lies, thefts, bribs and coruption? Let's call a spade a spade here, all they are is a pack of thives. They can keep BSing us with the line that their way is better for the country, but we know it's only better for them the steal every dollar of our tax money they can get their hands on.
It will be interesting to hear what Paul Hackett has to say at our county banquet this coming Sat.
I know he wants to speak and leave. But he is happy about the complimentary room I happened to secure.
I'll say it's just politics if I want to. 'Cause that is exactly what it reads like to me. If Hackett wants to really make a difference, which I think he can, he should stay in the race. Over come the "just politics."
Standards being higher? Sure, they always should be. Once again, my opinion is that Hackett should stay in.
This is how the Republican crime syndicate treats anyone who tries to be honest
Those professionals in the agencies and departments who insist on adhering to standards other than those imposed by the party are fired, demoted and blackballed. The oligarchy wars against these professionals to bend government purely into an instrument of oligopolies.
Bleujae, you're in Ohio? Personally, I hope he stays in too, because I think he's the kind of candidate we need to see more of. 24 hrs ago I was frustrated with the turn of events and even thinking I would be comfortable with Brown moving ahead in the Senate race and Hackett having another go at OH-2. But then I read the PD article and that cast a different light on things, and I can't tell you how sorely disappointed I am. (well, maybe I already did just that!) We have to understand that Ohio is a red state now and we're not just the majority party in exile, we are the MINORITY, and quit pulling bullshit like this if we want to win.
MSimon, I am contending that tax cuts for businesses is akin to corporate welfare, and place an unnecessary tax burden on others that can least afford it. Posted by BlackLikeMe on October 9, 2005 at 05:42 AM
Corporate welfare is just what it is. That want "the little guy" to pay it all. I've heard this refered to as, "the socialization of the cost of doing business while maintaining the privitization of the profit of doing business". Such a deal huh? I have to have tax money taken out of my pay check to help pay to run their business and they get to keep all the earnings it maakes. Then if my house gets destroyed by a hurricane they'll just tell me to go jump in a lake. After all I can't freeload" off the goverment, but bush's cronies sure can.
Susan,
I honestly want Hackett to stick this out. If he throws in his hat, like it reads his friend and adviser Michael Brautigam says he will do, he must only be concerned about having a free ride. That kinda pisses me off. Who is to say Brown would win? The real issue is getting DeWine out. The best of the primary has a better chance. See who is strongest.
I'm telling you and everyone who reads this, Hackett's campaign is not too concerned about his running. I've been in contact with them for a month now. No bio to provide, no current picture, no updated website. I was told to go to Wipedia (whatever) and pull something off about him to provide to the news outlets I was sending to. How fucking involved is that?
His campaign wanted to make sure he could speak & leave...why? He has a complimentary room to spend the night in here? If you are running for State office any office, you meet the voters.
I know all about this Red state. Maybe too much. It cuts like a knife in my economic situation.
I'm not dogging Hackett. But I want some proof he honestly wants this "job". Let there be a primary.
Posted by DPD on October 8, 2005 at 10:22 PM
Hey,
I have never lied that the two separate nations thing will have some growing pains. A lot of people, both sides, will have to relocate. By "have to," I mean, they can stay wherever they want, but if they want to live in the country that best represents their view of how the country should be, they'll have to move from blue to red or red to blue if they're not fortunate enough to already be in the right place. Otherwise, a blue American can stay in a red place and just accept that they differ with the government and the prevailing thought. It will be a lot like living in the U.S. is now...well, no, God only knows how fascist it will get when there is nobody to stop these people, but our side is relatively powerless NOW. Frankly, I often think that's not so different from what will happen anyway. They have a lock on the government, they make the most outrageous scandals and incompetence disappear (though the ability to do so seems to be waning somewhat -- there IS a God.), they force us to vote with receipt-free black boxes, and they steal elections. I have yet to hear anyone come up with a real plan to even get fair, honest elections by 2006. We complain about it, they say the evidence doesn't exist, or it's fake, and we're crazy. We could campaign and educate until we have no voices and holes in our shoes, if elections can be falsely tabulated, we may as well have stayed home and had margaritas. The fact that I'm aware of these factors is the impetus for my arguing for this split in the first place -- well, the primary impetus.
Again, I've said this before, but I see this as a plan that needs to be developed in case we cannot effect a change by say, (this is up for debate), the next presidential election. This is not something you can throw together logically or in terms of popular support overnight, it has to be prepared for, and that's why I think it deserves to be on the table now. We might find that there are problems in doing this that simply cannot be overcome and that this is just the flight of fancy a few of us think it is. Or, we might overcome the difficulties and be rid of the fascists if there is no other way to do it.
It is not my plan A. It is not my only plan. But I'm a realist and I don't take kindly to oppression. That was supposed to be the good thing about being an American.
With regard to all the nukes and launch sites: yes, we lose the sites, but we're splitting the nukes and all other weaponry, make no mistake. Also, we split money, gold, other valuables, and I would suggest D.C. as a no-man's land used as a historical monument to the old United States and a storehouse for documents.
You didn't cover what Redmerica loses:
Hollywood (and all its money. Seems to me that's justice considering all they ever do is insult it and complain about it.)
Wall Street (oh man, let's see them recover from that one)
In fact, most of our nation's GREAT major cities.
The fact that they have all the oil, yes, that's a problem. However, a new Democratic nation would be alternative energy-driven. We'd have the good sense to cut or eliminate our dependence on foreign sources of power, unlike what the Party of Crustiness and Dry Thought seems to be able to do (or even desirous of doing).
I may be back with a part II. Have to feed a small person.
Bleujae, well thanks for your added perspective. I'm not sure it makes me feel any better about the way this has been handled so far. I'm really concerned about Ohio Dems being able to get their act together any time in the near future, even with the Ohio GOP melting down around them...and unfortunately, I see a lot of the same problems in the national party.
Good evening!
Susan, in case you didn't know, Bluejae is JACQUEE.
You gotta follow her closely as she frequently changes her disguise :-)
"Want some proof? Well, the usual punishment for being AWOL was being transferred to active duty, and yet Great Leader applied and was granted an early discharge a full eight months before his hitch was up -- an action the National Guard was hardly likely to take if they were mad at him.
The proof of Great Leader's sterling record as a citizen/soldier is so completely obvious to anyone who bothers to delve into the subject that I'm sometimes amazed that I seem to be the only one who fully understands it. But hopefully this post will at least help to finally set the record straight."
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 9, 2005 at 05:03 PM
See,this is why I have faith in being able to use logic to reach these people.
THAT'S proof?
Oooh,I know. I'll back up my subjective argument with more subjective arguments.
What's with this capitalized "Great Leader" stuff? That's EERIE. This is as close as I've seen one of them come to calling him Der Fuhrer.
Nuts. They're insane.
Do y'all really want to be in the same country with these people?
OOPS,I meant
See,this is why I have NO faith in being able to use logic to reach these people.
Hard to think with children yelling.
I'm still stuck with misgivings about primaries in red states. Seems a waste of resources that only weakens our side.
Posted by Susan_ClevelandOH on October 9, 2005 at 06:57 PM
Elaborate? I'm interested but I'm not following you yet.
Here's something for "defense-hawk/fiscal-conservative" MSimone who thinks Junior's Republican "borrow and spend" is such a great idea. Tax cuts for the wealthy and never ending war, yeeeh! Until the collapse comes that is.
The swindle of the system is simple. The Federal Reserve Bank hires the US Treasury to print up some money. The Federal Reserve only actually pays the treasury for the cost of the printing, they do NOT pay $1 for each 1$ printed. But the Federal Reserve turns around and loans out that money (or credit line) to banks at full face value, those banks which have exhausted their deposits then loan that Federal Reserve fiat money to you, and you must repay it in the full dollar value (plus interest) in work product, even though the Federal Reserve printed that money for pennies, or created it out of thin air in a computer.
As the Federal Reserve overprints more money, the money supply inflates, and too much money starts chasing too few goods and services, which means prices go up. But contrary to the charade put on by the Federal Reserve, inflation doesn't just come and go due to some arcane sorcery. The Federal Reserve can halt inflation any time it wants to by simply shutting down those printing presses. It therefore follows that both inflation and recession are fully under the control of the Federal Reserve.
Over time, that excess of printing has destroyed the value of that dollar you think you have.
more at...AOL Journal
Evening. I haven't been on the blog for a few days. LastI read, I thought they were going to update the thread regularly. What happened?
Hey all !
Still on my husband's computer, mine if still screwed up.
Just came back from a Howard Dean Reception at a hotel in New Haven!!! (open bar, h'ordeurves?) It was all mainly politicians and Me. What a Rush! Howard gave a great speech. He said, "Democrats should be Democrats"! What a Roar that got. Thank Goodness Lieberman had not decided to attend !
He talked about how this is the most corrupt administration that was ever in office. He talked about his plans to take the party forward, and what we have to do. (See Paul's 10:44 post of last night where Howard lays out his plans to overhaul the party)
At the end, we gathered around to shake hands, and when I shook his hand, I said my name and that I had emailed him, and he put his other hand over mine, said " You're the Best! " Keep up the good work." And then his phone rang and it was his wife, so as he talked to her, I wandered off to talk to several other Candidates who are running against Shays, Simmons, and Johnson and they all knew me by name too. Spoke to the Sec. of State, whom I had met previously at a dinner.
Anyways, very enjoyable and exciting to shake Howard's hand !
It was worth every penney !
Well, we'd be better off if our leadership (ha!) could sit these guys down and make some gentlemanly decisions about who the candidate is going to be without wasting resources and good will on a primary fight when the real opponent is the OTHER PARTY. Not trying to be undemocratic here, just dealing with the reality that we're the MINORITY in this state and we can't be eating our own. It would make so much more sense for the party to stick with the horse they originally picked (Hackett) and throw their full weight behind him to beat Dewine, while letting Brown hold down his position in the House until 2010 and then take back the other Senate seat, from Voinovich. But with a state party sorely lacking in leadership, we tend not to do anything that really makes sense.
As a concerned citizen of the united states, I am very much opposed to what a clearly incompetant administration is doing in this country. I just hope that the '06 midterm election can shift the balance back to the left.
Sounds like a great time, Pam! Glad you got to touch the hand of our god, LOL!
I'm gonna shoot you an e in a sec wrt your computer.
William, Yeah I got a kick out of that Simon guy last night (who was so sure he could convince us to all turn Republican, he stayed on all night long), when he cited how great it was for Republican to give tax cuts to jump start the Economy! What part of 'that didn't work with Reagan, and Bush Sr, and now Bush,Jr, and the opposite worked for Clinton'???
The guy was just another looney, Un-educated and un-informed on the politics, yet would never admit he was wrong!
Posted by Firefly on October 9, 2005 at 06:54 PM
Firefly, I think you missed the joke. That story is only a parity of "Great Leader" by a Wes Clark supporter on the Clark blog last year. Oh, and about convincing a Republican about anything, no I don't believe it can be done. But we can convince some of the Democrats who have been bamboozeled and fooled by Republican lies, of which there have been millions.
I wish Howard would come here and slap Denny White upside the head.
Man, this guy Freeh seems like he's out for Clinton's blood!! (60 Minutes)
Pammie!! You GO Girl!!!
and we (vicariously thru U) will all be known by the DoCtoR! :-) cool! hehe!
GOOD to know he's listening. Or attempting to at least!
Ok - I better clean up my language.
WD, did you look at the website MSimon is linked to? Did you look on the right hand side to the list of recommended sites? MSimon is a freeper, bigtime. You are fighting a troll. Not that there's anything wrong with that.... ;)
Rose is that the FBI guy? I read he is repug that donates to the repug party.
Cin, yes, it is. And it is crystal clear that he's a pug!! What a jerk.
Thx Schube. I don't trust him. BTW, why is he on now? bush's nos are low, terror threats, former FBI guy comes out to complain about Clinton...again
Susan,
If you want to tell Howard your problems in Cleveland, go to Contact section, Put in big letters, Att" Howard Dean.
tell him what is going on, and give your email address.
I think he might pay close attention to Ohio problems, comments, opinions, etc. He really cares about doing an excellent job in this office. And he pays attention. Even if you do not get a response, know that he will see what is going on.
Cin, he's plugging his new book. You couldn't pay me to read his BS!
Pam, Cleveland is a whole separate problem. This is about the state party and the DSCC.
Rose, he won't find any buyers in this house! I read he brought up the Monica L crap all over again. It apparently caused the FBI not to do its job. B.S.
I agree with Jacqueline to some degree, we should have a good primary, but I disagree that the ODP can provide one. My impression, at least in Columbus, is that the guy who wins in the primaries is always the guy the Republicans can beat. I think the ODP is in league with the Republicans. They will make sure the weakest candidate wins the primaries, if they have their way. Seems to me I was not alone in this little conspiracy theory, last I heard.
If the party won't be fair, and give us two equally good choices....
Pam, maybe it's better he answered in the middle of the night so I wouldn't have to argue with him all day long. He's as Republican as they come but he keeps trying to claim if we just see things his way he'll join "our" party. Some already do, but the rest of us are never turning Repub no matter how much guys like him tell us how much better it is. I know otherwise. Democrats running things work good. Republicans running things work bad. It's almost as simple as that, we got history as proof, we don't need Right Wing hokiss pokiss talking points.
Pam, you lucky yellow dog! Wish I could have been your "date'!
NEW YORK (Reuters) - New Yorkers went about their business under tightened security on Sunday, the day federal officials said the subway system might be attacked, as investigators sought a possible plotter in the United States.
Ridership on the subway was running at about normal levels for a holiday weekend. Columbus Day, a federal holiday, will be celebrated on Monday.
Throughout the city, stepped-up security measures that began on Thursday continued, with armed troops in fatigues patrolling transit hubs including Penn Station, Grand Central Terminal and the Port Authority bus station.
Asked on "Fox News Sunday" whether a suspected plotter had made it into the country, New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said, "That's certainly part of the investigation, yes."
Members of the city's elite Atlas anti-terrorism unit rode the subways bringing thousands of fans to Yankee Stadium in the Bronx where the baseball team faced possible playoff elimination.
"There's more cops watching," said Brian Beseira one of the expected 55,000 fans at game. "I think about it but I try not to worry. There's more cops, more alert, in case something does happen. You feel a little safer."
"We're going to come to Yankee Stadium," said another fan, Gary Holz. "This is what it's all about, the playoffs and the Yanks. You can't stop us from coming together and congregating."
http://http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051009/ts_nm/security_newyork_dc
Go Dr. Dean!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dean Camp's Tactics Applied to Colorado
Web Site Aims to Organize Liberal Activists
By Brian Faler
Special to The Washington Post
Sunday, October 9, 2005; Page A05
A small advocacy group in Colorado is betting that it can take one state-of-the-art Web site, add half a million dollars or so and end up with a potent tool that will enable it to organize the state's entire community of liberal activists.
ProgressNow, formed two years ago, is borrowing some of the online tactics that helped fuel the 2004 presidential campaign of Howard Dean, now the Democratic National Committee chairman. It has invited activists from across the state to use its Web site free to push most any issue they like.
As I remember, THEY were the ones fixated on Monica. They wanted to impeach Clinton before he even took the oath of office in 1993! I remember, because I was blogging (or the equivalent) at the time on the Intelec BBS system, BEFORE the internet opened up.
They spewed more venom on a daily basis than we EVER will, and none of theirs was based in fact, until Monica. In other words, they made shit up for five and a half years, and when this broke, they immediately made a molehill into a mountain. And remember, even when Clinton was getting busy, he was still doing a damn site better than too stupid to chew a pretzel.
Cin, yes. He talked about how he had to lure Clinton from some dinner into a side room to draw blood for DNA on the blue dress.
Pardon me while I hurl!
Firefly, the ONLY part of that 6:44 post that made sense was the Margarita thing.
I await part 2 with breath ( baited, bated, or braided(.
A couple separate points --
Since the Democrats are just as divided on the Miers nomination as the Republicans are, shouldn't dnc.org refrain from taking an official stand? Is getting on her case (no pun intended) going to raise money for Democrats when it's the Senate Democratic Leader, Harry Reid, who recommended her nomination in the first place?
Point number two -- anybody heard about this? Bush conspiring with Israel towards regime-change in Syria? The article I am quoting from is from antiwar.com -- a libertarian site. Here.
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 9, 2005 at 07:14 PM
Yeah, I went to his website and read about four or five of his blog entries, but I didn't pay attention to what he was linked to. I should have and I'll look for that kind of thing more closly next time. He's a speed-demon typist, I'll give him credit for that. I wonder if he's a "professional".
I wish Howard would come here and slap Denny White upside the head.
Posted by Susan_ClevelandOH on October 9, 2005 at 07:11 PM
ROFLMAO!!!
Oh, I remember well how the repugs wouldn't stop talking about Monica. Not to mention, that they STILL can't stop talking about it. Blow job. Big deal. He's not my husband - what do I care what goes on between 2 consenting adults. I remember all this b.s. about the honor and dignity of the office. imo, bush has done much much more to disgrace the office and our country.
Posted by Firefly on October 9, 2005 at 06:54 PM
Instantaneous rants are ok, when talking about the FACT that the "Eagles" SUCK, but if you ACTUALLY read the post AND the link you would know that IT'S SATIRE and clearly labeled as such. Also there is a follow up stating the need for "emoticoms". (I ((personally)) HATE them ).
WD, it's possible he was a professional. Before the election, I remember they were paying their freepers some really good money to troll Democratic websites. I doubt they would do it for free when they could get paid for it.
Good Evening Democrats!
Been watching the Gubernatorial debate here in Virginia. I had forgotten how sleazy the Republicans are. Ugh! :(
Thank God West Wing comes on here in a few.
:)
Hell, Nywtie was on Hanity and Cohlms the other day saying what Bill Clinton did is worse than Tom DeLay, Karl Rove and the CIA outing and all the other Bush administration crimes put together. Boy these people sure hate it if a Democrat gets some, don't they? But when they do it it's alright! Hypocrites and liars is all they are.
I still think ML was impressionable young adult rather than simply a consenting one. What do I know?
DPD, I hope it was satire, or at least sarcasm. Of course it could have been Harriet Miers trolling the Clark blogs.
And no I don't think we should stand back and watch while the Republicans kick each other about "Harry". If we do, they will eventually establish control of the situation, and the propaganda mill will again run true. While they are fractured, we need to rub their nose in it, so they learn not to screw people in general. There should be a lesson
in here somewhere.
Rose, I felt sorry for Monica L, but I think the fact that she had had other affairs w/married men, kind of makes her a consenting adult. Of course, I thought Clinton was an idiot and took advantage of her as well...or so he thought. Obviously, the girl had/has issues.
WD, Newt was getting some AS the whole Monica thing was going on. Again, another situation that lends credence to Schubert's Theory:
Republicans act the way they accuse Democrats of acting. Republicans do the things they accuse us of doing.
WD, did Newt (sp?0 leave his first wife when she had cancer and then cheated on his second wife and then lied under oath during the divorce?
Cin, I think she had a messed up childhood insofar as men were concerned. I suppose she was a consenting adult. Moreso, I'd say she was probably star-struck. What 21 year old wouldn't be dying to tell someone she had sex with the POTUS?
I'm sure that's why Linda Tripp was fed all that info.
Yes, Rose, I agree. I actually think Clinton did like her. When he would talk about her, he would get this little sparkle in his eye. Ever notice? Still, he was dumb and I'm sure Hillary made him pay in one way or another
Linda Tripp was the bitch, and she had ties to Scaife. And she should have gone to jail. Look, I liked Clinton to some degree, didn't agree with some shit he did, that seemed to be anti labor. I didn't like that we didn't work towards REAL fairness in media during his administration. But he did do a good job on the economy, and Gas was less than a buck and a half a gallon. And people's incomes grew! It doesn't excuse the relationship, but it was NOT a friggin national crisis. The Republicans made it one, and it was bullshit.
Schube, it was bull and everyone knows it. They just won't admit it. I can't believe the repugs still bring it up. Weird, they seem to get a kick out of it and so does the media - blue stained dress...
Posted by Susan_ClevelandOH on October 9, 2005 at 07:08 PM
I don't know. Would it make more sense if Hackett, who is fresh off a loss, to sit back & get groomed a bit? He is fresh in a way most of us here love, but green in a way that the big boys in back rooms turn their noses up at.
Then let him take on Georgie V? Get some experience and state recognition. It's sad to say, the old time traditionals in my county party wondered who in the hell Hackett is...it was the neebies who jumped for joy.
It's up to the county chairs to find new and improved leadership of a state chair. That is why I want to be chair here. Vice doesn't get a vote, even if she attends all the meetings. ;(
I'm trying to stay positive in this matter. My county event is only 6 days away. It being the first one I have ever coordinated, (almost single handedly) I'm a bit stressed. With this announcement of Brown running, I'm wondering what Hackett will speak about and his attitude.
Butters, who has a better chance at winning - in your opinion. I really like Hackett.
{[Cyn}}
Wish you could have gone with me--I went all alone. Good thing I am not shy! :))
Jillian:
I think outside of Harry Reid, no Democrats have really much said too much about Miers, saying they plan on asking a lot of questions . By staying quiet, also, it gives the Republicans the image that, "hey if the Democrats like her, you KNOW something is wrong". I love it. :)
Schub,
That is something else I am mind boggled over, is the Clinton Years and Republicans. What part of that terrific economy, high interest paid on savings, Stocks and 401Ks at their all time highest, Jobs for all who wanted them, We were safe and secure and at peace.
Yet the Republicans seem to have slept thru that part of it. Only saw the Monica deal! Blind ideology.
I will bbl, also. Husband wants to use his own computer. Imagine !
Cin,
That is one hard question...do I answer with my heart or my head?
If Hackett gets a great campaign team in his corner and secures a large campaign finance account, I say he would.
Sherrod has many friends, state recogition, old money, and knows how to work it right.
Me & the j.y. dog were discussing this race yesterday. He knows the program inside and out. It's up in the air.
I'm just thinking out loud here...read the article Susan posted. Doesn't it sound childish? He bought a RV and everything! He's going to pull out because this should be about beating DeWine, not the democratic process. If he was serious, he would put more gusto into it...something like...I know I'm the best for the citizens of OH. Let Brown spend his money, I have the people.
I'm sorry friend, I can't answer you straight out.
Thx. I guess I should read the article b/c I really don't get the "RV thing not the democratic process". I just like the way he goes after bush and doesn't "bend over" at least it appears that way. I'm just so tired of losing. Thx buddy.
Oh and Blackwell is shooting for Governor on the Republican side.
If Hackett will forswear any more comments about "Hollywood" , I might even contribute.
Ok Schube, I confess - what does "forswear" mean? Don't have a dictionary handy
Cin,
Yes, JKenneth will pull the repug nomination out of his political hat. But we have Ted Strickland!!! (sorry all you who are supporting Coleman. well, maybe only sorta sorry)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Religion a red herring, my slacker ass!
This long thread is hard on me. I should complete my 2nd out of 5 keyboarding assignments so that I'm not pressed by Fri. deadline anyway. Miles to go...
Enjoy the evening!
p.s. Someone have a vino for me, 'k?
Yes, J "Katherine Harris" Blackwell. Our own version.
Cin it wasn't the right word. I meant forgo, which means
Main Entry: for·go
Pronunciation: for-'gO, fOr-
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): for·went /-'went/; for·gone /-'gon also -'gän/; for·go·ing /-'gO-i[ng], -'go(-)i[ng]/
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English forgAn to pass by, forgo, from for- + gAn to go
1 : to give up the enjoyment or advantage of : do without
2 archaic : FORSAKE
- for·go·er /-'gO(-
not forswear which means
Main Entry: for·swear
Pronunciation: for-'swar, fOr-, -'swer
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): for·swore /-'swOr, -'swor/; for·sworn /-'swOrn, -'sworn/; -swear·ing
Etymology: Middle English forsweren, from Old English forswerian, from for- + swerian to swear
transitive senses
1 : to make a liar of (oneself) under or as if under oath
2 a : to reject or renounce under oath b : to renounce earnestly
3 : to deny under oath
intransitive senses : to swear falsely
synonym see ABJURE
I almost forgot!
BOLD! What a woman! I'm glad you had a great time.
Luv ya!
And if you all didn't know, our KimK way out west is working it for her congressional candidate.
Late! (that is short speak my Necee & I use)
Well, I sort of want him to foreswear it, according to definition 2.
Thanks Schube! btw, I did know what forgo means but thx anyway - didn't know the archaic was forsake. Now, I understand your comment :)
Butters, my hubby will have a vino for you!
Actually, Schube, if I read too many definitions, I tend to get confused :)
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 9, 2005 at 07:53 PM
i don't get the Harry stuff. I was just commenting on the Separatist's post. No WAY am I moving from MY house just cuz I am in Pube-ville.
Chicago is only 1 day away 9by horseback).
Firefly is dreaming of a Utopia where only she can make the rules. Only like minded folks will rule. Any contrary opinions earns you a 1 way ticket out.
Kinda the same mind set that she is attacking, yet retreating from.
And....if it were to be taken to its logical extreme,
EMBRACING
DPD, I read back a bit since I've been away from the blog a few days. Perhaps I didn't read back far enough, but what exactly was Firefly promoting?
DPD, someone earlier said we should step aside and say nothing while the right goes after Harriet (who likes to be called Harry) I disagree. BTW, she thinks bush is great, and Stephanie Miller alluded to the fact that she wishes SHE was married to w instead of pickles.....
And then she would be called......
I don't mean Stephanie wants to be married to bush, I meant Harriet does. The cold meds are messing with my writing skills.
Schube, Harry _____. LOL I don't think we should be silent either. I'm tired of the Dems saying nothing. But maybe that's just me and a few others.
Whenever she talks about Harriet Miers, Stephanie plays the (WB) frog singing "I'm just wild about Harry". It's a clip from the original cartoon.
Posted by CalCin on October 9, 2005 at 08:58 PM
She was ( for MONTHS) postulating the concept of ALL Blue States Seceding, and let the Fundies have their own Theocracy.
I brought up the fact that the Red States have all the nukes...
I'll go look up the posts if you want.
I just want a moral to this story. I used to tell the kids that cheaters never win, until bush was selected in 2000 and rigged the 2004 election. Now it is impossible to tell kids that cheaters never win or cheaters never prosper.
You can't tell kids that if they are good, and they study and work hard, they can become President, either. These people really destroy family values, don't they.
Schube, they don't have family values - they sell what they don't have and people don't see it - makes me so mad
You know what "The American Dream" means to me? Not having a friggin moron as pResident!
Schub, Now you can tell the kids that it's OK to lie, smoke dope, do cocaine, and shirk ALL responsibility, including studying.
Have the kids do a recitation at their school and let the OTHER parents complain. WTF?
Just show the empirical evidence to the hypocrites.
(A picture of W "God's Mouthpiece on Earth, Since Jesus Left")
1) Please fix this blog so I don't have to keep signing in.
2) Speaking of, did you see God's Meterologist (Pat Robertson) on CNN this morning, claiming the earthquake was one of the signs of the end times? Labor Pains he called it. I think it's time to lock him in a rubber room.
Robertson ALSO said ( a few years ago) that he KNOWS for a FACT that the "Anti-Christ" is walking among us right now.
Robertson has W's private phone number. So, W IS THE ANTI-CHRIST!!
(And George? Those voices in your head ARE NOT GOD).
cheaters never win or cheaters never prosper
Define WIN Bush and the Repugs havn't won because they are in office. They are losing for all of us. Winners would not be at war and running the country in the hole. We have to maintain our values and impart them to our Children...then when they take the government back we will all WIN.
I can believe if there is an anti Christ - it's bush - he's either the anti Christ or he sold his soul - he gets away with everything
Part of the Pat Robertson interview:
Welcome to "LATE EDITION," Reverend...
REV. PAT ROBERTSON: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: ... thanks very much for joining us.
I want to get to Harriet Miers in a moment but you're a minister. You see what's going on in the world today in Pakistan, in India, Afghanistan, an earthquake, maybe 20,000 people dead, maybe twice that number; we don't have a count. Hurricanes in the United States and around the world, a tsunami a little bit less than a year or so ago in Southeast Asia. What's happening?
ROBERTSON: Wolf, I might say you're very perceptive to pick up the key in this.
If you read back in the Bible, the letter of the apostle Paul to the church of Thessalonia, he said that in the latter days before the end of the age that the Earth would be caught up in what he called the birth pangs of a new order. And for anybody who knows what it's like to have a wife going into labor, you know how these labor pains begin to hit.
I don't have any special word that says this is that, but it could be suspiciously like that. These things are starting to hit with amazing regularity.
BLITZER: But what does that mean? Explain that in more simplistic terms so I can understand what you're driving at.
ROBERTSON: Well, what was called the blessed hope of the Bible is that one day Jesus Christ would come back again, start a whole new era, that this world order that we know it would change into something that would be wonderful that we'd call the millennium. And before that good time comes there will be some difficult days and there will be likened to what a woman goes through in labor just before she brings forth a child.
BLITZER: So you think we're at that moment right now perhaps?
ROBERTSON: It's possible, Wolf. I don't have any special revelation to say it is, but the Bible does indicate such a time will happen in the end of time. And could this be it? It might be.
BLITZER: All right. Let's move on to something that we perhaps can understand a little bit better, which would be Harriet Miers, and she wants to be on the United States Supreme Court. The president wants her on the us Supreme Court. Do you agree that she is the best choice right now to be on the Supreme Court?
ROBERTSON: You know, the thing that I like -- Wolf, you see, I founded an organization called the American Center for Law and Justice; we litigate before the Supreme Court. A lot of these conservatives who are doing all this talk don't do that. We've had 12 cases before the Supreme Court -- as a matter of fact, as many as 16 or 17. We've got a couple of cases before this court coming up.
Our general counsel, Jay Sekulow, is very pleased with Harriet Miers because she shares the president's philosophy. She's been with him for 10 years, and we say, "No more Souters."
Well, Warren Rudman pulled a fast one on John Sununu and George Bush number one and put Souter over on him when he was supposed to be a conservative but he's not.
But Harriet Miers is a deep-seated conservative. She's a brilliant lawyer. And you don't get to head a law firm of 270 tough fighting litigators without being good. She is very good.
BLITZER: But is she the best, the most qualified, the most distinguished legal scholar or jurist or lawyer that the president could have picked?
ROBERTSON: I think what the president wants is a vote that reflects his point of view.
transcript
I believe in God (whatever you call it) and I am certain bush is playing for the other side. He uses sith techniques. He is thoroughly versed in the dark side.
ROBERTSON: I think what the president wants is a vote that reflects his point of view. Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 9, 2005 at 09:39 PM
Of course, she's not accomplished or smart - just like him
Remember Darth Maul? Bush is Darth null.
Posted by WilliamSchubert on October 9, 2005 at
09:43 PM
HAHAHA
Schube, the bush crime family makes for a very trying time for our country. Well, I better go pay attention to my hubby - BBL maybe
Gonna go Google that Paul to the Whatevers thing cited by Pat the Tax Free Whore.
BBIAB
I don't know why, but I keep thinking "Dark Helmet".
Wasn't "Dark Helmet" from the Mel Brooks Movie "Space Balls"? I never saw it, but I remember the commercials.
Helmut Dark sounds like a Soap Character, or star, or a German Porn name.
Yikes!! I'm still Googling that Paul "quote" from Pat Robertsatan, and I figgered I'd look up Helmut Dark.
It's a Star Wars site
Helmut Dark #1Google Page
Sorry, Robertsatan, I don't see Georges name anywhere in this.
Robertsatan is a LIAR
Nor HERE
Don't these LIARS realize that there is GOOGLE?
Sith side, indeed, Schubert!! Good research, DPD, thanks.
Bush IS the Anti-Christ:
Please Leave NOW, George
(And your little dogs, too)
where are the peeps?!! sigh. there used to be people here. double sigh. ok later then.
Seems like everybody is keeping an eye on these Theocratic Lunatics
You Ain't God, (He told me so) So QUIT, George, or check into a Mental Hospital
Look at the Staged pictures under the heading "Religion in the White House".
Now TELL me that this is not a set up for the end of the World.
hey folks! don't leave!
Do any of you know much about N.E.D.?
Definitely. Who's going to lift the veil? Living in the south currently, I can tell you that they are indoctrinated down here from a very early age to believe in a distinctly Republican concept of God.
I find it hard to believe that can change because of anything we might do, at least not in significant enough numbers.
What would your answer to your question be?
Posted by Firefly on October 9, 2005 at 06:08 PM
---------------------------------------
Firefly,
There's several way to bring folks into the light. First and foremost would to be publically go on the defensive (radio or TV), any time Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, or others try to claim we're a bunch of atheists and that we don't believe in God. They get by with saying this all the time and we never get it out before the public, it just isn't so. To have one of us go on a show like Meet The Press, etc and counter a claim by one of these so-called evangelists would do a great deal to help. Then do a comparison between the parties which show the truth. That would make one good debate too!
Second, would be starting in the churches themselves where we go. If anything of the sort is said in church against us, we should counter their claims in front of the congragation. I personally have done this and actually converted several over to a Democrat after they heard the truth. If we notice, there's really only a few churches who are doing this and their affiliates. Mainly the Southern Baptists (Southern Baptist Convention), or the ones that Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson claims to belong to. They want to back the republicans as they know they're safe from being investagated by the federal government under them. Remember what happened to Jim and Tammy Faye Baker? I remember both Falwell and Robertson rushing to the PTL when Jim Baker was busted. They did one or two others at the time who were caught conning folks out of their money and indicted for fraud. I remember one, I cant remember his name, who was caught with prostitutes 2-3 times! He came on TV each time saying he sinned and was forgiven and that Orel Roberts had saved him. This whole bunch is in cahoots and need to be busted. Now this does not go for all churches as some do not do this. The one I go to sure doesn't.
Last, an investagation. Investagate each of these churches thouroughly. Especially the ones who ask for money over the TV and want to sell you everything they can think of a X10 the cost. That would pretty much nail their hides to the barn wall. Just show the fraud from each on TV in an investagative report would be all that is needed. They'd start dropping like flies in one fell swoop. You'd see a large number of republican senators running for cover really quick too!
Funniness
Stumbled upon this after googling "Republican idiots on parade."
Some of you have probably seen the DU hate mail, but just in case, I thought I was going to have an accident with this.
It's all hysterical, but in particular, check out the guy with the sign.
Sorry Jen, I was watching Shark Tale. DeNiro's shark LOOKS just like him! Excellent animation.
Posted by DPD on October 9, 2005 at 07:36 PM
I'll tell you what -- why don't you be specific about what exactly did not make sense to you?
As to the following post, I have two young children, very heavy decisions being made here today, and your tone regarding my missing that something was a joke was not appreciated.
karen, the baseball playoffs are cutting into the blogging time at my end. evening jen, william,will, firefly, dpd.
dpd maybe if the yankees murder's row can score more than three runs tomorrow we will have a ny/chicago pennat playoff or whatever it is called. boy the yanks were about as anemic as you can be and win...rivera is something though.
wow i was post number 666 again. i bet joan is making thet happen somehow to warn everyone of my satanic mission.
NOPD Police Charged After Violent Arrest Taped
Hi Joan, Schube, Greg, DPD, Will!
William,
Here's my favorite;
You Liberals Are Pansies!
From: Infidel Avenger
To: mail@democraticunderground.com
Date: 4/13/2005 12:20 PM
Subject: RE: Radical Approach
I read a on a blog that DU expects there to be a confrontation between the religious right who want a theocracy and you socialist fiends. The fact is, I am not a religious man, far from it, but I would be more than happy to lodge a few bullets in your diseased fascist Socialist brains (if they can be called such) should such a war come between men of faith who love America and you dirty cocksuckers who do all you can to subvert your own goddamn country! Besides, you pansies wouldn't even lift a gun to keep your own mothers from being raped. How do you expect to fight a bloody war? HA! Losers.
No, Wait, I Changed My Mind, You Liberals Are Dangerous!
From: Infidel Avenger
To: mail@democraticunderground.com
Date: 4/13/2005 5:06 PM
Subject: I Take It Back
Dear Pansies, I take back what I said about calling you pansies who wouldn't pick up a gun to save your own mothers from being raped. After reconsidering, it occurred to me that fascist Socialists are often the first to take up arms and line people up against the wall (see Vietnam, Cambodia, Soviet Russia, China, etc.). Hell, I mean, look in this country - Bush/Cheney offices raided and trashed by union thugs in 2004, conservative speakers constantly hit with pies or worse when they speak, cars with Bush stickers keyed, and a general tendency towards violence as a first resort. I love the new Kill Bush tee shirts, real class there (by the way, wasn't it a Lefty who killed Pym Fortuyn in Holland?). Anyhow, hope to see you all on the front lines someday in the Great American Religious War you've so recently predicted. With all of the killing you radical Internationalists have done in the past half-century, it's time we got some! Can't wait to put y ou out of your misery. Bullets-R-Us! Ta-Ta, Faeries!
Now I'll tell you what, if he/she isn't the epittamy of the GOP, I don't know what else to say? I know this, every republican who comes on here, we should post this to show them how there party thinks and acts. I would love to see their reaction to it.
Best
Posted by gregg on October 9, 2005 at 11:32 PM
I beg your pardon?!
The Yankees played an awesome game. Both starting pitchers were excellent. What did you expect, 19 runs?
Geez.
firefly, i like it when they win by alot, that way i can surf back and forth to csi and curb your enthusiasm.
anyhow i taped the other shows but for some reason i rarely get around to watching shows i tape. life needs to be much longer if we are to fully savor all that the tube has to offer us.
this is the intro to an interview salon did with russ feingold. he wants to be president i am sure so it is helpful in that it brings us more info on a senator from one of the w (as in alphabet not as in presidunce) states that we might not get here in the effete east. if you want i believe you can get a free day pass from them to read the whole thing which is pretty long.
Why the U.S. must leave Iraq
Sen. Russ Feingold says it's time to admit the war was a disaster -- and accuses his fellow Democrats of going along with Bush out of fear.
By Michael Scherer
Oct. 10, 2005 | WASHINGTON -- Wisconsin Sen. Russ Feingold has latched his political future to the third rail of American foreign policy. This summer, he proposed a date for the withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq: Dec. 31, 2006. The date raises a specter that no one in Washington -- and especially no Democrat -- has been willing to broach: that the American people should begin to prepare for a political failure in Iraq, at least a failure by President Bush's standard of establishing, before the troops leave, a fully functional, democratic Iraqi state.
It is not the first time Feingold has gone out on a political limb. In September, he was the only Democratic senator with presidential ambitions to support John Roberts. He was the only senator to vote against the USA Patriot Act. Before that, he spent nearly a decade fighting the culture of political payola, a fight he won in 2002 with passage of the McCain-Feingold legislation.
Salon sat down with Feingold last week in his Capitol Hill office, which he has decorated with the trophies of his career as a populist politician. There was a photo of his garage door, where he wrote out a contract to voters in 1992 during his first statewide race. There were the framed roll-call votes from the final passage of his campaign-finance legislation. And there was the senator himself, dressed in pinstripes and a blue-gray tie, speaking with the urgency of a politician with his eyes on the White House in 2008. In a wide-ranging interview, he spoke about the "timidity and weakness" of his own party, the mistakes of Sen. John Kerry, the qualifications of Harriet Miers and his plan for winning the War on Terror.