This should come as a surprise to no one. Bush's entire presidency has been based on convincing the people that what he was doing was the same as what he was saying. By using language experts to break down complex problems into a few words that sound good to the average citizen. And then use them and hope that not too many people look into the reality of the situation.

'Healthy Forest initiative' - actually opens millions of previously protected old growth forest to clear cutting and road building. All at a loss to the american taxpayer, but at huge profits to the large timber companies.

'Clear Skies' - actually allows about 42 million tons more pollution than what was already allowed.

'Clean Water' - very much like the clear skies, a lot more pollution allowed.

'Tort reform' - Protection for the corporate world a the expense of the average citizen.

'Culture of Life' - How many executions while he was governor? How many killed in a preventable war?

"Enemy Combatant" - used to circumvent our constitution which provides for a quick and fair trial. A US Citizen held for 3 years under this without access to attorneys or the court system - and without any charges. How far is that from becoming political prisoners?

And on and on.

He is right that he doesn't govern by the polls. He governs by the donations. "Some people refer to you as the elite. I call you my base." Check out how many of the Pioneers (people that raised at least $100,000) in the 2000 election became ambassadors or had other high level government jobs (or someone in their family got the job).

He does use misinformation to sway the polls though. And this is just another example of that attempt. There is enough misinformation out there from all sides. It is hard to sift through for the truth, and it may get even harder.

DEMOCRATIC’s (left’s) Plan

Below is a brief outline that may help in framing the VOICING (rhetoric) of the Democratic Plan to return the Country to stability and growth for all. The plan is based on simple language and a belief that the 90’s demonstrated an outstanding, results based party. Simply put, by executing the 6 main categories security and growth will be
accomplished.

So, if some is asked what the plan is, it is based on Results based on the Common Good, Competency (words do not mean much), Community linked to value poles, Feedback, organizational structure (current administration is not competent by design), and Voicing concerns.
The items under each category are most likely controversial. That’s ok. But the over rhetoric is very important to develop.

Results Based (Common Good)
*Reduce Dependency
*Education
*Infrastructure
*National Debt
*Assets
*Needy
*Shared Contributions
*Alliances
*Right/Left Links
*World Concerns
*UN
*Security
*World action based not on ideology

Competency
*World Stability
*President's Office Structure
*Volume of Scandals
*Building on Previous Administrations Results
Community linked to Value Poles
*Groups
*Network Density -- Groups are important to organize and understand certain issues. But results are based on the density (or links) each group has established. The left’s various groups much link with common values on the right or risk getting in a he said, she said argument.

Linked to Values
*Language modified for different groups – each community must be able to talk in the language of the group’s they wish to link with. For example, using religious analogies may be needed.

Feedback
*Bad Results
*Different Sources
*Positive Results
*Mixed Results

Organizational Structure (Government President's Office)
*The current administration’s design (Approved by Bush) is incompotent in its very
design. A strictly top down organization cannot adapt or execute in today’s world.

False order based on a fixed view of a changing world simply does not work.

Voicing Concerns of Groups that do not line-up w/ Values (Administration)…. The left’s response should naturally voice concerns about others that hinder the above objectives.

BUT THE REPOSNE NEEDS TO BE INTURNS OF MEETING THE LEFT”S OBJECTIVES NOT IN CONTEXT OF
THE RIGHT”S (CURRENT RNC’S) REHOTIRC. ….

Bush – Cutting and Running in Iraq

You do the math...in Iraq
~2000 US dead.... ~20,000 hurt.. 10/1 ratio
~20-30,000 Iraq people dead ratio 10/1... 200,000 Iraq people hurt

The US has already lost. That's why Bush Administration is backing away from their earlier promises. They are cutting and running.

john cook

What does Tom DeLay and a turkey have in common?

They both need a pardon from the President.

are we so ignorant that we tolerate bushes tired 3 yr old rhetoric ? or was it rove?

john cook,
What the heck kind of plan is that?? All you did was list a bunch of topics. And how can you say we've already lost in Iraq? You need to read or listen to the presidents speech. Also, what does the 10/1 ratio refer to?

-Promote the peace, kill a terrorist"

You need to read or listen to the presidents speech.

uhhh,try, I think YOU need to read this analysis of what bush said, by the Assoc. Press.
Same ole bulls**t, just packaged a little differently.

WASHINGTON - President Bush’s depiction of Iraqi security forces as “helping to turn the tide” is difficult to square with persistent setbacks in handing control of the country back to its own people.

The president, in a major speech on Iraq war aims and in an accompanying strategy paper, acknowledged all has not gone as planned, speaking several times of a need for “adjustments” along the way.

“The new government faces daunting medium-term challenges, including advancing the reconstruction of the country’s infrastructure, reducing macroeconomic instability and developing the institutions that can support a market-based economy,” the survey stated.

The IMF staff cited a “volatile security situation” as one of the biggest challenges and said only “slow progress” had been made in restoring Iraq oil production to prewar levels.

The president spoke of “an increased focus on leadership training” to build a core of midlevel and higher ranking officers needed to guide and lead an Iraqi force that can operate on its own.

It takes years to develop a strong officer corps, and the process has been a particular struggle in Iraq.

etc, etc. In other words, this entire operation has been a disastrous mistake and a failure.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10267077/

-Promote the peace, kill a terrorist"

HOPEFULLY, over in Afghanistan where AlQaeda and Taliban lives, instead of anymore ridiculous Illegal invasions into other countries.

Maybe as the pressured withdrawal starts, we can get some troops back in there and try and win that War, !

Try these:

we can't win the war on drugs there, so we are calling it medicinial now.

http://atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/GK16Ag01.html

We haven't been able to beat back the Taliban, so now we are negotiating with them......

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/GK22Ag02.html

Largest Iraq veterans' group says Bush plan falls short

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Largest_Iraq_veterans_group_says_Bush_1130.html

Same old rubbish speech from Bush. He can hire a million PR experts and it won't change the reality of the situation. The American people want us out, the Iraqi people want us out of their country. Why is that so hard to understand? Yeah I know ... Dumb-Ya is never wrong.

Harry Reid responds concerning Bush's latest rubbish Iraq speech:

Just two weeks ago, a bipartisan majority of the United States Senate registered a vote of no confidence in the president's current policy in Iraq. Democrats and Republicans called on the president to change course and release a strategy for success in Iraq with specific benchmarks by which the progress could be measured. Today, President Bush failed to meet this call. Instead, he recycled his tired rhetoric of `stay the course' and once again missed an opportunity to lay out a real strategy for success in Iraq that will bring our troops safely home.

After nearly 1,000 days of war in Iraq, our troops, their families, and the American people deserve more than just a Bush-Cheney public relations campaign. They deserve a clear strategy with military, economic and political measures to be met in order to successfully complete our mission. The president's continued refusal to provide that plan does nothing to support our troops or their families. Simply staying the course is no longer an option, we must change the course. We can do better.

Armando on Daily Kos blog has a good summary as well of Dumb-Ya's latest PR campaign:

After two-and-a-half years and 2,110 U.S. fatalities, the Bush administration finally released a "National Strategy for Victory in Iraq" (NSVI). The problem is, it's not a new strategy for success in Iraq, it's a public relations document. The strategy describes what has transpired in Iraq to date as a resounding success and stubbornly refuses to establish any standards for accountability. It dismisses serious problems such as the dramatic increase in bombings as "metrics that the terrorists and insurgents want the world to use." Americans understand it's time for a new course in Iraq. Unfortunately, this document is little more than an extended justification for a President "determined to stay his course."
. . . THE NATIONAL PAT ON THE BACK: The NSIV is less of a strategy and more of a pat on the back. Much of the 35 pages is devoted to describing how well things are going. Oddly, the strategy declares on Page 5 that "Our Strategy Is Working." On the economic front we are told, "Our restore, reform, build, strategy is achieving results." On the political front: "Our Isolate, Engage, and Build strategy is working." On the security front: "Our clear, hold, and build strategy is working."

Bush – Cutting and Running in Iraq

You do the math...in Iraq
* ~2000 US dead.... ~18,000 hurt.. 10/1 ratio
* ~20-30,000 Iraq people dead ratio 10/1... 200,000 Iraq people hurt

The US has already lost. That's why Bush Administration is backing away from their earlier promises. They are cutting and running. And leaving a country that will continue to have to fight. Not what it was like before the occupation.

As Bush says, "Our goal is to train enough Iraqi forces so they can carry the fight."

All the finely-tuned public relations strategies in the world will not work if people don't believe in the mission. And in this case, next to nobody believes that Iraq will ever become a Western-style democracy. And more importantly, most Americans could care less if it does.

What the American people would like to see is our troops and their equipment brought home to help rebuild the hurricane-ravaged Gulf coast...and to stay here at home to protect us.

So just like Bush's Social Security strategy, the White House wiz kids keep on trying to sell Americans on things they don't want. And we are getting damned irritated about it.

We have work to do at home. Instead of addressing real problems like outsourcing, health care, foreign energy dependence, and hurricane re-building, the Congressional Republicans have repeatedly wasted their time and our tax dollars on things that were not necessary. And American voters are gettting damned irriatated about it.

Even without considering the on-going GOP political corruption, lies, and incompetence, does anyone really want to stay the course in Iraq or at home? Time will tell, because this President is determined to make his Republican majority in Congress run on just that proposition in '06.

So be it.

Let me begin whth a hypothetical situration.

Lets say that you were working the snack bar alone at a Target or Wal Mart store and that you were totally blind. Lets say that you were given one bill by a customer when they ordered something. how do you know how big the bill is? on the one hand you don't want to get tricked into believeing something that isn't true and on the oehre hand you really don't have a way of knowing how big the bill is.

On one hand you have the slant of the media and on the other hnad you have Bush's policies. I don't get the media because most of the stuff is negative and I don't understand Bush either because I have gotten the imperssion that he is hiding stuff from us because of how he has withheld information and yesterday when he gave that speech in fromt of a select group of peopel.

Can sonebody help me figure this out?

"National Strategy for Victory in Iraq Report." Also known as, "The Draft Dodger's Guide to the Battlefield".

did you ever think about the fact that maybe the reason the published plan talks about a lot of good things that happened is because lots of good things ARE happening in Iraq. Besides the occasional terrorist attack what has gone so absurdly wrong over there?? Everyone says it's so bad and everyones dying and nothing is getting accomplished. Well Bush has published a pretty long list of some daunting task that have been completed due to the wonderful work of our awesome military. Yeah there have been adjustments, what plan out there has never been adjusted after implimentation?? And now democratic leaders are saying they have been pushing for victory in Iraq all along? It's just crazy! You all are so completely out of touch with reality! Show me the poll that says the majority of Americans want us OUT of Iraq, not who thinks the war's not being handled properly or whether or not they like Bush. I want to see the poll that says the American people want our troops to leave immediately. Most Americans want us to fight harder so that we can hurry up and finish this thing. You all aren't making anything easier.

Am I the only one that thinks it's odd that a President who wears his Christianity on his sleeve would submit a "666" plan for victory in Iraq?

6 Political assumptions
6 Security assumption
6 Economic assumptions

What are his Fundamentalist Christian supporters saying about such a plan?

TAKING POINT ON WHAT INTELIGENCE IS!!!!

President Bush is responsible for the decisions his administration makes and implements. Not the VP, his friends, his advisors, his political hacks, and his top officials. The President appoints the staff and implements the organization to implement his decisions. By definition, all decisions made are the President’s. Saying mistakes are made or we must go forward does not change the damage that has been done.

Again, intelligence is not information, but the decisions and actions a President makes. All Presidents have to live with this burden. And unlike 20 years of previous administrations, President Bush acted differently. Even though the basic risk AFTER 9/11 that Iraq had posed had not changed.

Reframing the discussion on Intelligence. Are President Bush’s Decisions Intelligent?

TALKING POINT: WE CAN ONLY PRAY THAT THE STORMS CAUSED BY PRESIDENT BUSH’S DECISIONS CAN BE FIXED.

Much has been said about the “Intelligence” used for the US’s domestic and foreign policies. Those on the Left (who are interested on results) say the Intelligence was marketed and in many cases materially altered to set the ground for the Right’s agenda. Those on the Right (who are interested in getting alignment with ideology) say to look forward because the dream is worth the cost, or we can’t stop now. And we are where we are and can’t cut and run. (although, that is exactly what the administration is doing by not keeping its promises on Iraq.) Anyway, the discussion quickly becomes difficult. Namely for 2 reasons,

*One group is talking about competence and years of continuity with 3 previous administrations.
*The other talking about keeping consistent with its ideology.

That said, talking about building and securing a world requires the ability to actually do the work. Talking about ideology (not right to life discussion) does not trump the brick and mortar work required. The basic work is to rebuild Iraq from its damage and rebuilt America to the state before to the 90’s -- in terms of security and wealth for the common good.

Where are we going with this?
The discussion on intelligence is important for several reasons. The question mainly is why President Bush made the decisions he made and how can we (the world and US) help mitigate the consequences of the President’s decisions.

Looking back at the Reagan, Bush I and Clinton Administrations (20 years), all knew that Iraq was a threat to the region and a cork in the bottle to stabilize the region. Note: the make up of the Iraq citizens reflect the various groups that surround it. The basic reason for the 1st Gulf War was to reduce the power of Iraq so that their role of being the cork in the bottle was restored. AND there is not a person alive that would agree that Iraq had more weapons after the 1st Gulf War then before.

So, what does this have to do with intelligence??

TAKING POINT ON WHAT INTELIGENCE IS!!!!

Much has been said about the bad intelligence leading to the war in Iraq and President Bush’s ability to prevent 9/11. The basic argument is that bad input equal bad output. An essentially linear logic applied to a complex situation. Simplistic and doomed to fail.

That said, intelligence is not information. Intelligence is making the right decision based on a real-world understanding. Secondly, understanding the risk associated with not acting on a situation. The fact of the matter is that 9/11 did change the priority of how the world response to terrorism in each country’s homeland. Consequently, President Bush used linear logic to say that the Iraq war was needed. The underlying assumption was that the risks in the world had changed. Again this is bogus logic. Most of the world’s risks DID NOT change because of 9/11.

20 years of 3 Presidents (Reagan, Bush I, Clinton) had managed the risk Iraq posed to the region and kept Iraq’s role unchanged – providing a peace in an unstable region.

Here’s the REFRAMING –

President Bush is responsible for the decisions his administration makes and implements. Not the VP, his friends, his advisors, his political hacks, and his top officials. The President appoints the staff and designs the organization to implement his decisions. By definition, all decisions made are the President’s. Saying mistakes are made or we must go forward does not change the damage that has been done.

Again, intelligence is not information, but the decisions and actions a President makes. All Presidents have to live with this burden. And unlike 20 years of previous administrations, President Bush acted differently. Even though the basic risk AFTER 9/11 that Iraq had posed had not changed.

Where does this leave us? By President Bush’s own definition, he has made a decision to cut and run. He made many promises to the US citizens, his foreign policy team, and the world. Namely, to remake the middle-east via Iraq, and to use Iraq’s assets to rebuild it from neglect and damage done via the war.

The President’s current line of reasoning is essentially a cut and run strategy with a false claim that we can win the war with the military. Here’s why,

You do the math...in Iraq
* ~2000 US dead.... ~18,000 hurt.. 10/1 ratio
* ~20-30,000 Iraq people dead ratio 10/1... 200,000 Iraq people hurt

The US has already lost. That's why the Bush Administration is backing away from their earlier promises. They are cutting and running. And leaving a country that will continue to have to fight. Not what it was like before the occupation.

As Bush says, "Our goal is to train enough Iraqi forces so they can carry the fight."

WE CAN ONLY PRAY THAT THE STORMS CAUSED BY PRESIDENT BUSH’S DECISIONS CAN BE FIXED.

John Cook

I am so proud of our Democrats for sticking together. Our Party is successful because we are not divided. " Now I ask you to all speak the same thing, and let there be no divisions among you; but be perfectly joined together in the same mind and the same judgment with the same goal and the same purpose."
THIS IS A GOOD PLAN FOR ANY ORGANIZATION TO BE SUCCESSFUL. Our lovely Democrats have achieved this by just being themselves. May God Bless our Party in those things that are right and defeat our party in those things that don't serve God's purpose. Let us pray that the Republicans will be defeated in those things that work against God's people.

More Meta (news) -COP-u-lation ... Bush -- white and right

Bush Admin Attacking Anti-war (peace) Churches

Bush Admin is attacking the message of peace that Jesus lived for ... what is next???

IRS is tool of the right -- going after anti-war churches

The polical right and the IRS.... why are not the right wing churches that push politics including those that support various right wing organizations being looked at???

Church: Anti-war sermon imperils tax status
Officials say IRS has warned church over pre-election message

Bush/Cheney Support Anti-christain Torture

Bush/Cheney support anti-christain Torture
Children , too, are abused in US prisons

If we "stay the course", there will be a DRAFT.

REMEMBER DOWNING STREET!

"I am so proud of our Democrats for sticking together. Our Party is successful because we are not divided."

What about Lieberman?

johncook,
you can't just say things that have no basis in reality or truth or evidence. Half the stuff you post doesn't make any sense, and the other half is completely unfounded Bush hate babble. I don't know if your just making this stuff up or you grabbing it from some wacko extreme lib site.

"Bush/Cheney Support Anti-christain Torture"

what the heck is anti-christian torture? Torturing Christians? Or is it using torture tactics that whoever you consider Christians dissaprove of?

You can't just say stuff like that without backing it up. Heck I could say whatever I want too. I could say:
"Kerry hates Jews and Senator Byrd owns slaves"
or
"Schumer wants to pull out of Iraq because he secretly wants the terrorist to destroy the country, in fact he is a covert terrorist himself"

PLEASE DO NOT KICK ME FOR THIS, I KNOW NONE OF THESE STATEMENTS ARE TRUE NOR AM I SAYING THEY ARE TRUE.

In fact I realize that they are completely false and absurd. Which is exactly how your statements about the Bush Administration sound. The fact that you say Bush is Anti-Christian is completely absurd and inherently false.

Just post something that makes sense for once, sheesh!

--promote the peace, kill a terrorist--

Torture is a Christian virtue?
Now I've heard it all.

KING GEORGE IS A FAKE CHRISTIAN!

The need for such bullshit PR is because progress has failed on all fronts in Iraq. . .

Most honest observers know the counter-insurgency and nation-building efforts in Iraq have failed:

*The security situation is worse and worse as few will be surprised to hear. This remains true even if one looks below the surface at more detailed indicators, like increasing civilian casualties and an enormous increase in the crime rate, than just the daily military death count.

*The economic situation is still bad news overall. No new salient infrastructure (despite America's huge investment- where has all the money gone?), no jobs and growing poverty. Any progress here and there has been too slow to help defuse the insurgency, at all.

*The political situation is in greater confusion than since the end of official war. Various opinion polls show that public optimism, in terms of Iraqis' views about their personal and country's future, has greatly diminished. The referendum process has estranged Sunni Arabs even further. They still form the core of the insurgency, and bringing them into a national government seems more unlikely than ever.

The unwarranted American aggression in Iraq and it's incompetent management have created chaos which will not be solved by continued occupation. The Iraqis are going to fight it out amongst themselves one way or another, eventually.

There is no longer reason to hope for progress in Iraq. The time for America to get out and out of the way is now!

BLOG ON
PLANET REVOLUTION Blog

Those who want us to stay in Iraq want a DRAFT!

Thanks for your reply from Bush's policies being anti-christian. I grew up a preachers kid. And please tell me how torture is Christian.

My friends on the Christain Right are very concerned too.

Sorry I up setup you. Normally when I get mad at something that is abstract, I have something I need to think about.

The torture that Bush and Cheney support isn't torture of all terrorist even when there is no specific purpose. It is using whatever means necessary to drive out critical information from reluctant terrorist in order to save lives of Americans and other people. It's a way of protecting the innocent and punishing the wicked which last time I checked Jesus was all for that.

What I want to know is why all of you are so concerned with the enemy terrorist? All they want to do is kill you and destroy our way of life and you think sitting down and talking nicely with them is going to help anything? I mean I'd rather not have to torture anyone but if thats what it takes to save the lives of the innocent then I'm all for it.

Let's not forget that this President Bush obtained the Office of President through fradulent Diebold voting machines with touch points on the screens to change the vote, that the person who made the programming found that his programming was being used in a different way than what he thought when he made the program and told the world. Now we know these Diebold Voting Machines are fradulent and in being fradulent makes this President fradulent; but the Republican Lite DLC that is funded by Republicans do their best to stand by this Right-Wing Administration because they are all in this together to make a World of the Rich with Slave Labor.

President Clinton is DLC and is Republican Lite as is Senator Hillary Clinton. I listened to President Clinton speak on CNN this evening and wasn't impressed. Democrats must be full Democrats, not Republican Lite. He is pushing this one world order.

President Clinton works closely with the Republican Fascists to give supposed democracy to the world, while we the Working and Poor Class, which includes "working professionals", whether they know it or not, are losing our democracy for ALL to Right-Wing fascism.

Knowing your political class is not the cause of Political Class Warfare -- NOT knowing your own political class is the cause, because without the "Professional,Working and Poor Class" knowing that they are a "whole political class", it makes it easy for the Elite and professional wanna be elite to take advantage and play havoc with the Working and Poor Class; as these DLC Working Professionals, through the DLC, are trying to become a part of the elite; and in doing so, are marginalizing the Working and Poor Class of which they themselves are actual members. These DLCers need to skitter right on over to the Right and leave the Left alone, as there is no room in democracy for three political classes trying to play like there is no Political Left and Political Right.

Neither DLC President Clinton nor Elite President Bush and all his administration have any military expertise that will countermand Congressman Murtha. Congressman Murtha has many, many years of military experience and we the people must weigh Congressman Murtha's experience against this bunch of non-experienced, self appointed, military shirkers who are greedily working at light speed trying to make a Wealthy Class and a Poor Class. The only way to avoid this happening is for the WHOLE of the Political Left to stick together and not be divided.

All people for democracy are on the Left. All people for autocracy are on the Right. If you think not, you are deceived and are helping to lose democracy.

The DLC is pushing to stay the course in Iraq and the Middle East, but that is not what we the people should do. We must get out of Iraq and the whole Middle East.

President and Hillary Clinton are DLCer's who push the One Party "duopoly" Political System where the two parties are the same with the Republican Party being the leader telling us what we want to hear, and doing what they want to do.

It is not in the best interest of the Political Left, the Working and Poor Class to have jobs that pay .09 to .40 cents an hour. These trade agreements pushed by the Republicans and the DLC Republican Lite are not in the best interest in any way for the Working and Poor Class, which is the Political Left, the Dean Democratic Party.

Politics is Leadership of constituents of your political class in your party in their best interest and non-constituents of your political class in your party or in other parties against their best interest. Political Class is very important.

When the Republican Right talks about the Left not starting political class warfare, they fail to mention that the Republican Right has been doing political class warfare against the Democratic Left for the past 40 years.

It is in the best interest of the Wealthy Fascist Republican Right to have the whole world's Working and Poor Political Class in slavery. It is not in the best interest of the Working to be in slavery and when one loses ones job they are the Poor. Poor can happen real easy with all the jobs being outsourced for cheap labor. Democracy lifts up and makes living wage jobs for the working class. Autocracy cares nothing at all about the working class other than if you have a problem, kick you to the side and get another one.

Democracy for ALL must be kept in the United States. Governor Howard Dean is for Democracy for ALL in the United States. The DLC is not for Democracy for ALL in the United States and those of the DLC must be sent to the Political Right where they belong.

"the Working and Poor Class to have jobs that pay .09 to .40 cents an hour."

Who in America gets paid this wage? I want proof.
I also want proof that the Diebold voting machines were intentionally, or even unintentionally set up to give Bush the vote. I also want to know what percentage of voting machines were touch screen.

Stop making these stupid un-supported statements. You have zero proof of any of your"facts" stated above including the ones about Clinton, and especially the ones about Bush.

Show me links, show me proof, show me something for cying out loud and stop just saying what you THINK is going on instead actually taking the time to discover the truth.

--promote the peace, kill a terrorist--

tryagain 12/2/05 01:18 AM:

Check the internet and try again to find the facts because the facts are out there and on the internet.

I have facts that I will get for you; but not tonight. I'll post my facts tomorrow, I'm too tired to hunt it up right now, but I will be glad to.

Speaking of facts, have you found any facts in Bush's 37 page plan? Apparently Repugs and Repug lites are immune to facts.

It's time for Democrats to form a cohesive strategy for opposing the Iraq War. It looked like we were on track last month. However, the President has given a couple of speeches that may be having an impact on public opinion. The Administration's new strategy of saying war critics are "irresponsible" is putting Democrats on the defensive when just two weeks ago it was the other way around. And, it doesn't help to have Bill Clinton come out of CNN two days ago and say we SHOULD keep our troops in Iraq longer. Huh?!!

If Bush had some kind of a plan, he would have used it long ago. There was no plan to begin with, if anything the plan is to keep this thing going as long as they can and keep filling the pockets of corporations that backed Bush in the last election with tax payers money. Death and destruction means nothing to this bunch. Bush wants to buy some more time and he thinks there enough morons out there that will believe him just one more time.

Democrats Divided On Iraq???

One theme that I have seen repeatedly stated in the Post as well as the NY Times is the contention that Democrats are "divided" on the best strategy for peace in Iraq, or that we lack our own "plan for victory." What concerns me is that this is being depicted as a major problem, like it somehow reveals a disorganized party in termoil, in the midst of mass disagreement, that we are somehow "split."

Well, a party that brings many ideas to the table and promotes free thinking within its ranks to me is a sign of health, not disease. For five years we have been Swift Boated, badgered, and offered such rotton choices it's been hard to be heard at all, much less have all our voices counted in a manner that suggests disagreement.

Iraq is a complicated delema, and it is further complicated by the serious mismanagement of the war and the persistent misinformation we have been receiving about it. It was not our decision to employ torture and sabatoge our reputation with our friends and enemies. It was not our decision to engage in a policy of secret prisons. We did not promote the idea of circumventing freedom of the press by hiring soldiers to bribe Iraqi newspapers to print propaganda. It was not even our idea to go to war in the first place. Why wouldn't we have a vast array of suggested solutions to such a complex set of problems that we have never been faced with before on such a scale?

As a party we don't have to be in complete agreement on the best course of action, although we are in complete agreement that the administration has not prosecuted the war in a manner that serves our best interest. The Libermans do not have to agree with the Murthas on whether a timetable approach is best as long as we agree that the GOP management of our country has gotten us into serious trouble.

The republicans were very good at speaking with one voice, relaying a single message, and whenever anyone challenged the same they simply got louder and more obnoxious, thereby being able to ignore the facts. Look where it has not gotten them? My how they run for cover when it calls attention to their individual careers.

Instead of apologizing for our differing opinions like we're admitting to a "problem," why not instead boast about being a party of diversity, where opposing ideas are welcome, that we're engaged in the true essence of what a democracy actually is? The GOP supresses dissenting views, stages their speeches in front of controllable audiences, and promptly ejects any opposition while setting up elaborate backdrops. America was fooled by this modus operendi for 5 years, but not now. There is no reason why we cannot fully capitalize on their misfortunes by simply being who we are: A party that does not suppress disquieting ideas, rather a party that encourages free thought and speculation. In the words of RFK we not only ask why, but why not?

To: trytryagain and all else:

Reference: DLC and Voter Fraud - Martha Post of Dec. 2, 2005 01:03AM

EVIDENCE:

To learn about the Voter Fraud Scheme that the Republicans started in Florida and used in Ohio and no telling where else, you will have to read this site:

http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002006.htm

Clint Curtis the vote rigging prototype software programming whistle blower employee of Yang Enterprises, Inc., Oveto, Florida that Tom Feeney hired to build a vote rigging software prototype so the Republicans can manipulate the vote to select the winners of their choice has given sworn statement to the court and Congress to the effect that he built the Republicans a vote rigging prototype.

Tom Feeney is a Registered Lobbyist for Yang Enterprises, Inc. and is Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives, deceitfully representing all the good democratic Florida voters.

Tom Feeney requested three things of the prototype which are:

1. The fradulent prototype had to be touch screen capable.

2. The fradulent prototype had to be able to be manipulated without anyone being able to see the 3rd party intervention.

3. The fradulent prototype had to have the SOURCE CODE hidden where no one would be able to read it and tell that the prototype was fradulent and could be easily manipulated from points on the touch screen.

Clint Curtis appears to have thought he was making this prototype to prevent voter fraud; since as he says, "No one would be stupid enough not to check the SOURCE CODE, would they?

But the DLCers who do such a fine job of cooperating cooperated with the voter fraud.

****

To learn about President Clinton and his wife Hillary and other DLCers in the Democrat Party who front for the Republicans, you need to read these sites well:

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/demleadcoun.php

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/ppl.php

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/ind/marshall/marshall.php

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid-86&subid-85&contentid-893

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0304=27.htm

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/charts/pnac-chart.php (You will have to type this link, I thought of it too late.) This site has a Complete List of PNAC Signatories and Contributing Writers for the Project for a New America Century (PNAC).

After reading this information you should know why full cooperation with the Republicans is promoted by the DLCers. Don't you ever wonder why the DLCers politic for full cooperation with the EXTREME Right-Wing?
In the New Century the professionals will be made elite, they think.

*******

In reference to the Trade Agreements to take advantage of the Working and Poor Classes you need to do more research that isn't slanted for the Right, which is the Capitalists of Business and Industry. The Left is the Working and Poor Class that are being fleeced. The reason the Working and Poor Class aren't working for extremely low wages yet in this country is because of democracy still holding on by a thread, but when democracy is gone, and it will be, if working people are stupid enough to vote their democracy completely away in the 2006 election; then after democracy is gone, the wages for the Working and Poor Class will be the same in this country as in other countries.

Don't be a blind follower. Governor Howard Dean will endorse Political Left candidates who are not of the DLC, and the Political Left must do their best to vote into our government the candidates Governor Howard Dean selects in order to break the DLC Right-wing ring in the Democratic Party that is pulling the Democratic Party to the Right against and away from the people.

Also, trytryagain,

Here is some very valuable information to break the Republican propaganda charm by brillant Professor David Ray Griffin, who looks at everything that had to do with 9/11/01 factually:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8765.htm

This is a long and factual look at 9/11 that should open a few eyes about this self-appointed administration. Please watch or listen to the tape all the way through and listen to the question and answer session at the end.

**********

Here is a site about the Trade Agreements:

http://www.campaignforlaborrights.org/alerts/2004/may22-cafta.htm

and about restoring democracy:

http://www.thomhartmann.com/tencommandments.shtml

trytryagain:

Here is the site that I couldn't get posted that exposes the architecture of power that's changing our world into what we the Political Left do not want, but fascism is great for the Right-wingers:

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/charts/pnac-chart.php

The economic problems in the United States is not just a one-person problem that can be blamed on Bush because what is happening is a Right-wing push by all the Extreme Right-wing and getting Bush would be inconsequential for the Political Left.

What Governor Howard Dean is doing is the only thing that could possibly do any good at all. Charles DeGaul had the same problem in France and had to leave the country to save free France when France was occupied by the Germans. At the present time the Democratic Party is occupied by the DLC.

When you get through all of this, let me know and I will send you some more facts.

Re: Right-Wing EXTREME Information Managers

After the way Martha Stewart, a Democrat, was treated relative to unproven insider trading; the socialistic ways of the EXTREME Right for protecting their class is evidenced in that Bill Fritz is still allowed to hold the position of Senate Majority Leader; since Bill Fritz has been caught doing Insider Trading, but today I listened on C-Span to Bill Fritz and his crew telling the American people the economic situation in the United States is rosey, and I couldn't help but think of Bagdad Bob, Saddam Hussein's Information Manager.

When anyone from the Republican RIGHT speaks, they are speaking to their class ONLY; but they do make it sound inclusive like it is to one and all, but they are only talking to theirs, their constituents, the ones of their class. The Republican Right speaks to their class only when talking about all the good that is being done for America. The fascist upper crust is having a rosey time, but the new jobs they mention are McDonald's type jobs, not living wage jobs for the Working and Poor Class.

It is imperative that the Working and Poor Class understand that the Republicans are speaking to their people ONLY, and not to the working people of the Working and Poor Class.

You can no longer hear the BBC on National Public Radio as, for the first time, the BBC's little light of truth has been extinguished and discontinued by this EXTREME Right-Wing Administration from National Public Radio in the United States because it is just too much for this EXTREME Right Administration to allow the people to hear the truth presented by the British Broadcasting Co. Here is a link where you can help keep FREEDOM OF SPEECH and FREEDOM OF THE PRESS for the people of the United States:

http://www.freepress.net/presswar/

The people of the Working and Poor Class must stand up for hearing the truth in media. The BBC is well known for truth in media. We the people should not allow the BBC's voice to be shut down and we must also defend www.freepress.net and www.freepress.org as they are doing a remarkable job of keeping truth available for the people.

We need to win fence straddling Republicans to win nationally, but Republicans justifiably attack us now long before a platform convention for not knowing what we Democrats will do if electedl. Two clear issues are:
1. BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW..We cannot prevent civil war between two sides who both hate our being in their country now. Who the heck is the Iraq Army;? Sunni's? How were they chosen? News is light on this. Can't we learn from history when Britain pulled out without unifying the country. Individual tribes will always control their areas.This gives voters a choice.
2. CONTROL JOB EXPORT NOW.>.Trade must be balanced to be Fair. While it is being balanced dwe Democratsd must stand up and be willing to pay more for locally produced goods until trade is balanced, at which time policy can be reviewed.This also gives voters a choice.
We need to support a candidate now, early on, who publically backs both of these policies.
3. Universal Health No one is giving the voters a choice on this issue, and it should be our issue. We should tell them how to pay for it too....no more Iraq money, no more NASA money should do it nicely.

We do have to win these fence straddling Republicans and we can't do it with the likes of Hillary Clinton or John Kerry. McCain will probably be the Republican nominee to try to keep these Republicans at home and will be much harder to beat that Bush. Kerry showed America that he doesn't have what it takes to be president the last election. When you can't beat the worse president since Herbert Hoover, you can't come close to McCain. Hillary Clinton would even be worse. Republicans would make a joke out of her campaign. With Bush's numbers going down,Democrats numbers are not going up accordingly. That means they will not vote for a liberal Washington DC Democrat, just another Republican like McCain.A lot of Democrats would prefer McCain over Kerry or Clinton. Someone like Wesley Clark will have a much better chance against McCain. He is more moderate and he isn't a Washington DC insider and that counts a lot with the average American voter. The rest can't beat anybody and if Liberals will not moderate their demands for the sake of a Democratic victory, it's eight more years of Republicans and then there will be nothing left to save.

Tug 12:13PM 12/3:

The 2000 and 2004 Elections were stolen by the Republican EXTREME through fraudulent voting machines, etc. Both Gore and Kerry actually won but would not stand up and defend the peoples vote, but wussed out and agreed to be losers as if the people's democracy wasn't anything to lose.

Awesome sites/info Martha, thnx! The Black Commentator did some analysis of the DLC also, esp its Black Caucus members, and though I'd like everyone to just "get along" despite differences, I don't see a measurable difference between moderate Republicans and the DLC including the Clintons, Lieberman, Louisiana's sad excuse for a Democratic governor, etc. The DLC has done more to push me away from the Dem Party than any other organization.

Most of us who feel this way are not crazed commies hoping for a revolution to overthrow capitalism, and we can see the possibility of private/public cooperation for public issues - that does NOT mean we support U.S. corps moving production to where they DO pay less than a dime-dollar/hour, intl corps destroying the environment globally, and the purposeful planned exploitation of all workers except the top 5% with the DLC's BLESSING!?*! Gore had no credibility as an environmentalist anymore than he invented the Internet, thanks to his cooperation with the polluters!

The DLC is the master of cooptation, and nothing will subvert change faster and more thoroughly than cooptation.

The Progressive Democrats and their sensible Republican counterparts need to continue to grab the reigns and demand a six-month exit strategy. Nobody in America - except those with hopes/plans for a decades-long occupation - agreed to take over the Middle East and use the cradle of civilization (even in American textbooks), to do so.

Confidence without Merit is the strong meritless Bush Plan.

Those "Fence Straddling Republicans" aren't Republicans, they are former Independents and Democrats who got fed up with out-of-touch limp-wristed campaigning. These are the people we need to win back by speaking to the issues that are of primary importance to them. By standing up for the working people, who are getting poorer and poorer while the megacorporations get richer and richer. By standing up for our abused military whom the Republicans see only as photo ops and connon fodder. By having the rich pay their fair share for the infrastructure and services they demand from the government. By election reform both in the polling booth and in campaign financing.
Above all we need Democrat candidates who will push the issues, and stand up to Republican trashing. We need "Give 'em hell, Harry" candidates who aren't afraid to make a stand.

Notes for jean-Puerre

Calcium and Vitamin D

Get PH test strips
Sun
Sport for oxygen

?alkaline salts of tpitassium (gluconate, acetate and phosphate)

I agree with Martha about “Both Gore and Kerry actually won but would not stand up and defend the peoples vote, but wussed out and agreed to be losers as if the people's democracy wasn't anything to lose.” I was furious with Kerry- having seen that Gore made the wrong decision to not fight, Kerry trotted off to Iraq on “a very important fact finding tour” instead of standing up for the fact that we- the Democrats who held our noses and voted for him, - won. And then he refused to claim victory. I would never vote for him again. Nor any other DLCer. Nor Wesley Clark who couldn’t figure out for the longest time what to say about the war. An outsider for sure, but out of it altogether.
Who do we have? Al Gore, since he stopped running for anything, has given some dynamite speeches that I think he believes. Very good stuff. Would he cave if given a second chance? So far he’s the best we have- except Howard, who can’t run. I think only a good war denying progressive can win this election. Someone who has had the guts to stand up to the Repugs. Clinton makes me ill, as do the rest of those who did not support Murtha. Blind as bats as to what the country wants and what is the only thing to do with this war- which is to stop it.
What a mess. How people who post here can still believe that winning is an option- what are we winning? Oil? We know – you all should know- that we are there under false pretenses. They didn’t do anything to us and we have ruined their country and killed over one hundred thousand people, and will continue with our depleted uranium to cause serious illness in so many more. How can you guys say- promote the peace, kill an insurgent. Do you sir, not realize that the insurgents are just Iraqis trying to rid their country of the invaders- US.
All the polls show that the Dems with their calculating pussyfooting are not inspiring the people. They are not offering a choice- they say things like- we need a plan to WIN the war. How pathetic. They don’t dare say we have to leave because they have bought the Carl Rove idea that they will b e “weak on defense” if they do. Oh get real you guys. Stand up and be counted!!!

Whoops, ignore the notes at the top of my post- mistakenly copied from the page-

Democrats lost the Iraq issue by signing on to the war without a disclaimer which would have been the intelliegence being presented to them. They went with the polls,like they do on every issue, without thinking ahead, and the rest is history. What they haven't done is taken a stand on any one issue, like jobs being exported, or high energy costs,or a million other things. They are afraid to make anybody mad,therefore they take their position on the fence. If you try to act like a Republican, voters will take the Republican every time. Why switch? To get the swing voters, you have to stand for something that the other side is not giving you, and you have to show them you mean it. Grammer schoolers can tell you that. You can't be for everything and stand for nothing and expect to win.