this could be the new republican offensive to reverse the bad polls the presidunce has been getting. looks like a really strong effort.

it makes sense that chickenhawks would prefer to talk turkey.

Why did democrats vote to increase the number illegal H1b visa. Many tech companies now have laid off all the older employees are replaced with cheap Indian labor. It's very hypocritical of Democratic Party to side corporate corruption. Does any one really believe that there is shortage of talented Americans? Unemployment is very high. Software programming is one of the most affected areas yet phony senators vote to increase H1b visas. I am outraged, last 2 years I am unable to find steady work even though I am straight A student and have good track record. Shame on all of you traitors. Enough is enough; you’re just as bad as republicans. Really laying off 40 year old and replacing them with cheaper Indian labor is against the law. I am surprised there is no class action lawsuit. It’s nothing more that age and race discrimination. Can any one keep a straight face a say that these 25 year old Indians are software experts. Democrats are just as guilty of fraud and corruption as Republicans.

IMPEACH BUSH

UnemployedTech: Have you checked Microsoft and Silicon Valley? They can't hire programmers fast enough.

Democrats are just as guilty of fraud and corruption as Republicans.

Posted by UnemployedTech on November 10, 2005 at 11:44 AM

Don't even get me started -

Actually Microsoft and silicon valley IT firms are happily shipping jobs oversears AND they are hiring as many cheap H1B's as they can.

Just try working for either of them and see what happens. A friend of mine who lives in Seattle says getting work there is only going to happen if you are a freaking genius at code work(and Bill is VERY GOOD at what he does) otherwise they are very happen to use India workers or bring them in. They work cheapers, don't demand bennies and can be fired if they start to act all uppity.

I too want to know why democrats vote for an anti American job bill like that. They have to stop being the ho's of the corporate world and start standing up for Americans.

But getting rid of repugs in Congress is at least a right step.

How fitting that the guy wouldn't want to show his face but hide behind a suit and a sign! LOL

Here is the image rehosted for those of you who have akami adblocked like a lot of us.

http://www.democrats08.com/media/20051110_lameduck.jpg

Democrats are just as guilty of fraud and corruption as Republicans.
Posted by UnemployedTech on November 10, 2005 at 11:44 AM

Not hardly, boy.

REMEMBER, Democrats are not in the majority. Regardless of which way they vote, it is the Republicans making the laws right now.

Don't confuse voting with corruption and fraud.

Bill Gates is not interested in hiring Americans he wants 25 year old "green" Indians. I live near Chicago IL and all the companies are that way. I interviewed at Motorola and only 1 programmer was over 40 and only 1 person was not an Indian. They must have very sneaky HR lawyers; of course they can afford to give CEO big bonus. I will not be voting for either senator (‘Dick’ Durbin, Obama) they both had some eloquent excuses but I am not interested in their phony rhetoric anymore. I am tiered of living on verge of bankruptcy.

Even in small companies the hiring manager is often from India, it’s a total racist situation. You may as well walk out because you will not get hired. It’s a very odd situation as they are not even American citizens or in many cases intelligent. Basically there is no party that supports the working class anymore. The Democrats totally support the concept of corporations laying off 40 year olds and replacing them with 25 year old Indians. I even have it in writing from Dick Durbin, as long as they wait a couple months it has his blessing. Does he really think I am going to vote for him?

The H1B Visa program was eliminated. The funds from that program have been funnelled into the President's High Growth Job Training Initiative.

Get your facts right

NOVEMBER 04, 2005 - The U.S. Senate yesterday approved up to 30,000 additional foreign-worker visas a year in a program popular with technology vendors.
The Senate approved a proposal to "recapture" unused H-1B visas going back to the early 1990s and to add up to 30,000 of those unused visas to the 65,000 annual cap. The number of applications for H-1Bs for the federal government's fiscal year 2006 hit the cap in August, a month and a half before the fiscal year actually began

The H-1B increase passed as part of a large budget bill aimed at reducing the U.S. government budget deficit. A House version of the budget bill does not include the increase, and the full House may vote on that bill as early as next week. Negotiators would have to iron out differences between the two measures before a compromise bill would go to President George W. Bush for his signature.

Technology trade groups have called for an increase in the cap, saying they can't find enough workers with specialized skills. Backers of higher limits say H-1B visas help U.S. tech companies attract the best talent, and the Information Technology Association of America (ITAA) praised the Senate for raising the H-1B cap.

Gobble gobble! How long can a lame duck sit? I bet less than 3 years!

Here is a quote from Richard Durban:

"On July 24, 2003, Senator Christopher Dodd introduced the USA Jobs
Protection Act of 2003, S. 1452. Among its provisions, this measure would
require employers to certify that they have not and will not lay off U.S.
workers during the 6 months prior to and 6 months after hiring any H-1B visa
holders."

they do not wait 6 months
they do what ever they want when ever they
want, with no restraint from anyone.

I also am an it programmer and agree with UnemployedTech.

I've worked for my company for 13 years and have watched over the last 3 years the owner of my company slowly lay off all of the American IT personel, move the jobs to another location about 80 miles away and re-hire the same positions and fill with Indian folk. This all inside our borders.

The only jobs they didn't fill with Middle Easterns are the Management positions. It sickens me.

I got a bug in my ear recently from my boss as well to "Put out my feelers" when I asked about job security.

When did Americans get so self serving? I hope all you big American business folk realize that these busy little bees are the next generation that will be screwing your kids out of your business's in the future as they are the only one's that can afford to pay for an education for thier kids now days. In our schools at that.

I also am an it programmer and agree with UnemployedTech.

I've worked for my company for 13 years and have watched over the last 3 years the owner of my company slowly lay off all of the American IT personel, move the jobs to another location about 80 miles away and re-hire the same positions and fill with Indian folk. This all inside our borders.

The only jobs they didn't fill with Middle Easterns are the Management positions. It sickens me.

I got a bug in my ear recently from my boss as well to "Put out my feelers" when I asked about job security.

When did Americans get so self serving? I hope all you big American business folk realize that these busy little bees are the next generation that will be screwing your kids out of your business's in the future as they are the only one's that can afford to pay for an education for thier kids now days. In our schools at that.

Thank you for your comments AmercnWmn
It's unbelievably sad that they think they will balance the budget by putting more Americans out of work and replacing them with Indians.

Really how stupid can you be to believe that?
America is no longer America; I am not sure what it is But it is ugly and sad.

It's like our government is secretly working for India and Mexico. (also oil companies)

Tech's can get jobs. Just don't try to live off the income. My son-in-law has, for the last 4 years, worked a series of 6-9 months jobs as a contractor with no benefits, usually about 2/3 the pay he was making before the IT crash, with 2-4 months between jobs. A couple of the jobs he had was working as a liasion between the IT company and the programmers in India. Because of time differences, it lead to some very strange office hours when he had to talk to them by phone.
Even though my daughter also works, they are having financial problems which the new bankruptcy bill is only making things worse. Their son needs to be on medication, but they cant even afford to go get the prescription renewed right now. They have gone from donating to the local food bank to getting groceries from it.
But the economy is doing great. :-p

Isn't it somehow appropriate that the Republican comes dressed as a TURKEY!

Interesting.

I just checked some of the history of efforts to curb S1932, the bill that dealt with this H1B issue. Seems Senator Byrd (a Democrat) submitted an amendment to S 1932 to protect workers who might be affected by it. The vote was 14-85. The people who voted to try to save your jobs were:

Akaka (D-HI)
Byrd (D-WV)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sessions (R-AL)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Vitter (R-LA)

It's a shameful repudiation, for both parties, but that 10 of the 14 were Democrats says a lot. Only 3 Republicans gave a damn about you. And what have we here? Well, my, my: Is that Dick Durbin I see there, UnemployedTech? Of 14 Senators who gave a damn about your job security, YOURS is one of them!

Then there's the roll call vote on S 1932 itself, which is the bill that had the H1B provision in the first place.

These are the senators who voted against a bill that tried to take your jobs:

Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Snowe (R-ME)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)

What a surprise: awful lot of D's on that list.

Before flying off the handle with emotional reactions, try looking at what's actually being done, and who did support you. Both of your Senators did what they could with S 1932. Notice that Durbin and Obama are on this list.

You seem well-represented.

You could be from Texas, and having both of your senators not give a damn about you because you're not rich.

Thank you Aquaria
I was wrong

Could my remarks be deleted from record?
It seems I am totally wrong in blaming Democrats.
I do not want to be responsible for spreading bad information. My emotions are fried from not working but that is no excuse. I would really like my comments removed as they are inaccurate. Most of blame goes to Republicans. Thanks again to Aquaria.

Unemployed Tech,

A lot of Computer companies these days, are looking for tele-commuters. Try Oracle, based in CA, but has employees around the globe. My daughter is one of them. She travels to the office in SF once in a while (at their expense of course), but works from home. She travels to clients , in London, Hawaii, and in the mainland.

Look into Microsoft and others also. I would assume they have same type of employees.

Unemployed:

I know what it's like.

I used to be an electronics technician. I'm not anymore. The jobs disappeared. I'm a postal worker now.

It's so easy to get upset, and blame everyone. It's so frustrating to see these profit barons purging jobs to make themselves richer. But they are so blind, seeing only the short term gain, rather than how looking for cheap labor will create an environment where no one can afford the products they're making.

They need US, far more than the know. They just don't care. Just $$$$, greed, gimme gimme gimme and a big "up yours" while they're doing it.

We've got a mess in Congress, no doubt about it. The best way to both channel your anger and send a message that you won't put up with this corporatist government any longer is to go out there and help candidates who want to stand up for the workers of America.

Empower yourself. DO something to make things better, for you and all the other workers of America. There's more of us than them, anyway. ;)

And Unemployed:

Don't remove the record. Your anguish is real. You deserved to be heard.

My anguish is real, but the problem is not Senators Durbin, Obama. Really I misjudged them.

I realize there is a shortage of “superstar” programmers just like there is a shortage of Michael Jordan’s and Einstein’s.

However replacing middle aged programmers with kids from India and paying them less is not solution. In many cases techs would take cut in pay if given the choice but instead they are treated like animals, given phony reviews and replaced.

This will only have the affect of discouraging American’s out of technology field’s altogether.

Are they going to lay off all Indians when they hit 40 and replace them with some "smarter".

Butte, My situation is about the same. The last 2 years is strictly contract work with no benefits. However the pay was OK, most of the time I am unemployed. I made $45 a hour at 1 job but i only made 13k for year. I collect unemployment. That bill is supposed to balance the budget which is a joke. This is special interest group that lobbied for the increase. As you can tell information they spit out is very fraudulent

ITAA/Global Insight Study Finds Global Sourcing Spurs US Economy
31-Oct-05

For More Information Contact:
Bob Cohen (703) 284-5301 bcohen@itaa.org
Charlie Greenwald (703) 284-5305 cgreenwald@itaa.org

Michael Raimondi, IT Advisory Services, Global Insight, 781-301-9124, mike.raimondi@globalinsight.com

Washington, DC--The Information Technology Association of America (ITAA), the leading trade association for the IT industry, today released its 2005 edition of The Impact of Offshore Software and IT Services Outsourcing on the U.S. Economy and the IT Industry, a major study finding that worldwide sourcing of computer software and services continues to increase the number of U.S. jobs, improves real wages for American workers, and, by pushing the U.S. economy to perform at a higher level, has many other economic benefits.

ITAA commissioned Global Insight, a leading economic analysis, forecasting and financial information company, to conduct the study. The Global Insight research team was led by Global Insight Chief Economist Dr. Nariman Behravesh, who is regularly rated as one of the world’s most accurate economic forecasters.

“Global sourcing continues to be a net positive for American workers and the U.S. economy,” said ITAA President Harris N. Miller. “By driving down the costs associated with computer software and services and by opening more overseas markets to U.S. competition, global sourcing sharpens our country’s competitive edge at home and abroad. The result is more American jobs, higher wages and a faster growing economy overall. As we first found when we conducted the original study in 2004, an informed approach to the global marketplace is the best antidote to protectionism and trade barriers.”

Major findings of the ITAA/Global Insight study are:

Worldwide sourcing of IT services and software increases total employment in the United States. This activity generated an additional 257,042 net new U.S. jobs in 2005; by 2010, net new jobs will total 337,625;
Workers enjoy higher real wages. Global sourcing adds to the take-home pay of average U.S. workers. With inflation kept low and productivity high, worldwide sourcing will increase real hourly wages in the U.S. by $0.06 in 2005, climbing to $0.12 in 2010; § The cost savings and use of offshore resources lower inflation, increase productivity, and lower interest rates. This boosts spending and increases economic activity;
Worldwide sourcing contributes significantly to real U.S. Gross Domestic Product, adding $68.7 billion in 2005. By 2010, the real GDP will be $147.4 billion higher than it would be in an environment in which offshore IT software and services outsourcing does not occur;
Spending for global sourcing of computer software and services will grow at a compound annual rate of 20 percent, from approximately $15.2 billion in 2005 to $38.2 billion in 2010. Total spending on software and services will also continue to increase in the U.S. During the same time period, total cost savings from worldwide sourcing of computer software and services will grow from $8.7 billion to $20.4 billion, much of which will be reinvested in the U.S.;
Demand for U.S. exports increases due to global sourcing. Countries can buy more because they can sell more; the U.S. has more to sell through increased investment in new products and services, better productivity and lower inflation. Global sourcing contributed $5.1 billion to U.S. exports in 2005 growing to $9.7 billion by 2010;
The U.S. continues to run a large and robust trade surplus in IT services with the rest of the world.
“The benefits of free trade clearly provide a boost to the U.S. economy,” said Global Insight Chief Economist Nariman Behravesh. “Using offshore resources creates additional jobs, increases efficiency, reduces costs, dampens inflation, lowers interest rates, and increases spending. The challenge is to help displaced workers transition to other productive activities.”

The study reveals several other important new insights. Between March 2001 and September 2003 IT job loss to offshore outsourcing—either domestic jobs eliminated or jobs created overseas instead of in the U.S.—totaled 111,828, or about 40,000 jobs per year. 313,172, or 73% of software and IT services jobs lost during the period, were caused by other factors, such as the overall slowdown in the US and global economies and the bursting of the telcom and dotcom bubbles.

The study found that raising barriers to worldwide sourcing would adversely impact U.S. workers and U.S. firms. If all global sourcing of software and IT services terminated completely, the impact would slow the U.S. economy and actually reduce the number of new jobs available to American workers.

While global sourcing increases jobs and wages, Miller said emphasis must continue to be placed on those U.S. IT workers negatively impacted by this economic shift. The report offers a range of recommendations, including:

Make information technology and other service sector workers eligible for government assistance when their jobs are displaced by foreign operations.
Encourage students to achieve diverse skill sets and workers to keep their skill sets up to date. Current laws and legislation should be reviewed to assure that the U.S. educational system is being adequately supported at all levels;
Preserve American leadership in innovation. Support basic research and development to help assure U.S. leadership and continued waves of innovation driven economic growth.

The ITAA/Global Insight study systematically assesses the impact of worldwide sourcing computer software and services on the U.S. economy. Specific consideration is given to worldwide sourcing as it affects industrial productivity, employment, and trade. The results are broken down by industry and by state, so that elected officials can understand the positive benefits for their own constituents. The analysis is based on a thorough compilation of secondary and third-party data and extensive econometric modeling to detail virtually every aspect of the U.S. economy.

The executive summary of the ITAA/Global Insight study is available on the ITAA website and on the Global Insight website at www.globalinsight.com/ITAA.

About ITAA
The Information Technology Association of America (ITAA) provides global public policy, business networking, and national leadership to promote the continued rapid growth of the IT industry. ITAA consists of over 350 corporate members throughout the U.S., and a global network of 67 countries' IT associations. The Association plays the leading role in issues of IT industry concern including information security, taxes and finance policy, digital intellectual property protection, telecommunications competition, workforce and education, immigration, online privacy and consumer protection, government IT procurement, human resources and e-commerce policy. ITAA members range from the smallest IT start-ups to industry leaders in the Internet, software, IT services, ASP, digital content, systems integration, telecommunications, and enterprise solution fields. For more information visit www.itaa.org.

About Global Insight Global Insight, Inc. (http://www.globalinsight.com/) is a privately held company formed to bring together the two most respected economic analysis, forecasting and financial information companies in the world, DRI and WEFA. Global Insight provides the most comprehensive economic coverage of countries, regions and industries available, using a unique combination of expertise, models, data and software within a common analytical framework to support planning and decision-making. Global Insight collects and delivers economic and financial information to clients and also provides a broad range of consulting capabilities. With its April 2003 acquisition of World Markets Research Centre, Global Insight also provides the world's first same-day analysis and risk assessment service covering 196 countries and 4 industries, providing insightful analysis of market conditions and key events around the world. The company has over 3,800 clients in industry, finance and government with revenues in excess of $80 million, over 600 employees and 23 offices in 12 countries covering North and South America, Europe, Africa, the Middle East and Asia.

Upcoming Software Events
15-Dec-05 - ITAA Executive Dinner Series Dallas, TX
14-Dec-05 - ITAA's Investor & Analysts Relations Forum Teleconference
08-Dec-05 - IT Services Executive Outlook Forum Teleconference
13-Nov-05 - 2005 ITAA Executive Leadership Summit Arizona Biltmore Resort & Spa

Privacy PolicySite MapContact Us© Information Technology Association of America. All rights reserved.

I love it! Thanks for providing my morning laugh. What quick-witted Dems!

Man, that looks fun. I wish I worked at Democratic HQ.

That is way too funny.

Hey, Did anyone else catch Bush's Veteran's Day speech? He used the oportunity to honor vets by slamming the critics of his (lack of) Iraq war policies. You can always tell where these creeps are weak; where they attack.

Hey JohnNei, yes, I noticed!

Once again, Bush and his cronies are defending their failed policies in Iraq, this time using a sacred holiday to blast Democrats who are fighting to tell the truth about Bush & Co.'s lies. Each time the Dems stand up to shine the light of day on the Administration's falsehoods, used to gain Democratic accession and lead us into an unnecessary war, they haul out the same old songbook that says we're "endangering the troops," and "being unpatriotic". They say that Democratic Senators “saw the same intelligence" seen by Bush and his insiders when deciding to vote for the war.

Folks, these lines are T.I.R.E.D.! The only people who believe them anymore are the 32 (and falling) percent of Americans who still believe the war in Iraq is a good idea.

POINT ONE: Since when is it unpatriotic to tell the truth? It’s evident to me the thing endangering the troops is the Bush Administration’s LIES! And that ever has been and always will be!

POINT TWO: Do the Bushies really expect us to believe they shared every shred of intelligence they had with the Congress? Do they really expect us to believe they had no greater CONTROL over that intelligence than members of Congress had? I am simply not buying this. This administration has made its existence on twisting and manipulating the truth around to its own insular ends. I have no reason to believe the case they made for war is ANY different. Yes, I believe they told all of us, Congress included, a bald-faced lie. And with each new piece of evidence that comes to the surface about it, the worse things are looking for ol’ George. That silver foot must be getting’ mighty tasty…

Hey Dems,
You are truly pathetic. Once again, for the umpteenth time: Bubba, Algore, John "Reporting for Duty" Kerry, the UN, the Brits, the French, the Germans, the Russians, George Tenet (Bubba's CIA appointee), virtually everyone was convinced that Saddam had WMDs. History did not begin with the election of George W. Bush. Were there WMDs? Who knows? There was ample time to get them out of the country. The most laughable comment of all was that of the great poser, John Kerry, when he accused W of politicizing Veterans Day. For four years, you Dems have politicized the War on Terror and US security for your own self-serving purposes. Pathetic.
Chunkie

Where the hell is our response to the BS that bush threw out at the flag kissing event he orchestrated yesterday? We knew he'd pull a stunt like this on Veterans Day.

We should have had a response out by the end of the news day. At times we appear to be so damn disorganized and weak-kneed that I could just throw up.

I missed the network news last night, but I didn't see any mention of a response this morning. Did I miss it or did we just blow another opportunity to smack bush upside the head?

roberto

All adults know if you lie once about your job or public life, you can never be trusted again. No matter who Bush gets to write a speech for him with all the love and compassion in the World, noone will ever believe him again. People don't just lie once about their intentions on their job description. It gets to be a means to an end. Bush Administration will say and do anything to get their way. You have seen this before, usually in some young teens, they will try every approach possible to get their way. George Bush is just like that. He is accustomed to being able to get his way and cover up the intentions. He will go down in History as the one President that presented the USA as a Nation,you won't know as you have known it in the past! No one in the World can even recognize our Country. Even our most professional Military don't know our Nation as they have known it at one time. Branches of our Government like the CIA cannot recognize our beloved Nation. Even the Congress members don't know what to say or do because of the hate and destroy attitudes of our Nations Administration.
Our selfless Combate troops don't know how to fight a war or question prisoners for this Bush Administration. May God Bless them and defeat our Government from ruining their careers for getting caught following orders. Let us all pray that God will have mercy on the rest of us and defeate our Administration in every thought, deed and word that will harm any of us. I pray this ruining of Careers will stop before we all go bankrupt by the Bush Administration acts of defending their own sins and crimes.

Whoa Chunkie, don't come in here with half truths.

Back in 98, Pres. Clinton did believe (from one Iraqi source, codename Screwball) that Saddam was still trying to hide a Chemical weapons program, and
1-you can find comments-galore from that era
2-you will also notice that Bill didn't send 150,000 American boys and girls into Iraq on those rumors

Then when Bush was running he was making it clear to his base that
1-taking out Saddam was very much on the agenda
2-after 9-11, once it was clear that Al Queda was hard work, Team Bush needed something easier, with good targets, & nasty villains. And according to Bush and Co, a clear well established growing nuclear threat, that had to be dealt with immediately, we couldn't wait for proof in the form of a mushroom cloud. But those were all lies, that phase 2 of the Senate investigation will establish; and who started them, which office fabricated them, and why.

This will all lead tie back into the Plame-gate treason of punishing Ambassador Wilson for speaking the truth; leading to more indictments (Rove, Cheney, Negroponte, Bolton?), and then when Mr and Mrs Wilson file their civil suit for the ending of their professional careers by Republican warmongerers more of the truth will come out.

And Chunkie, why is it Republicans are so afraid of the truth? How can you support a party that is built on nothing but lies, greed and a craven love of power?

Johnnei, Johnnei, Johnnei,
Since you accuse me of coming in with half-truths and respond with a weak quibble, I guess you acknowledge that some of my points are true. Which ones? That the Democrat leadership was on board with Saddam having WMDs and now wants to rewrite history? Or that your party has placed its own political interests before the security of the nation? I am not motivated by a desire to defend Republicans. My take is that GWB is a flawed, well-intentioned leader who has undertaken an noble effort in seeking to establish democracy in Iraq. As a Vietnam veteran, I've already lived through one successful effort by short-sighted leftists and their allies in the media to undermine a noble American military effort. When the US failed in that war, 3-4 million Southeast Asians half-a-world away died under Communist domination. If we lose this war, the battle will take place here on our soil. A similar number of Americans may lose their lives. That is the truth and I am not afraid of it. Democrats and their soul-mates at the New York Times, Washington Post, et al have never acknowledged that the unintended consequence of their anti-war efforts during Vietnam was slaughter and repression. Today, hatred of George Bush and selfish partisan attacks are still not a good formula for protecting America. If your guys are successful this time, Johnnei, The New York Times editorial board will not be around to save you.
Chunkie

Charles Krauthammer, the Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist and former psychiatrist, has diagnosed a condition that may explain what passes for analysis and commentary on this blog and others like it. It's called "Bush Derangement Syndrome" and is characterized by "the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush." Please check your conscience to see if you suffer from this condition. The first step toward recovery is acknowledgement of its existence.
Chunkie

virtually everyone was convinced that Saddam had WMDs. History did not begin with the election of George W. Bush. Were there WMDs? Who knows? There was ample time to get them out of the country. The most laughable comment of all was that of the great poser, John Kerry, when he accused W of politicizing Veterans Day.

Well to start with how about this entire paragraph.

Virtually everyone, except the UN Weapons inspectors, or the head of the International Atomic Energy Agcy.

And, no, history didn't begin with the selection of Dubya, but a huge number of Americans are hoping that his reign will result in the rapture.

And as for WMDs; there were none, according the the Darfur report. And don't pull any of Melman's lying talking points that the report does say that he was trying to start a WMD program. The report says no such thing.

And why on earth, when facing annihilation by US forces would Saddam not have used any WMDs against US forces, or Israel? How would he have given them to? Terrorists who want to strike Americans? Well, then why not hit the 150,000 non-muslims invaders of the Ummah? (Ummah=Islamic motherland/holy ground)

And never before in US history has any American politician used Veterans day or Memorial day to attack their foes wrapped in the flag; but the only thing Bush can do is attack and villify.

Hey Johnnei,
Have a great week.
Chunkie

Chunkie

On Vietnam,
How many more US boys should have died in the jungles of SE Asia, before Kissinger and Nixon declared victory (the fulfillment of all our goals) and removed our troops from Vietnam? Would another 1000 dead have convinced the VC that they were wrong to defend their homes? 10,000 more dead would have made the North Vietnamese realize that the US was serious? And if so, why couldn't/didn't China's two invasions of Vietnam not crush Charlies' resolve. Why are all the little brown people not just willing to accept our domination, Chunkie?

On Iraq,
The Fallacy that all you lying republicans push is that either
1 you're with Bush, in all his lies deciets, and INCOMPETENCE,
or
2 you're with the terrorists, anti-war, unwashed, singing Kumbaya.
You overlook a tremendous, positive, workable third option; that we might have been in favor of regime change, but that maybe it should have been done right.
1 With enough troops (Gen. Sheniki wanted 350,000 and 30,000 arab speaking Turkish or Egyptian troops along),
2 enough interpreters (I've seen numbers that in the shock and awe phase there were fewer than 20 trained linguists),
3 plans for establishing order, plans for rebuilding the country.

What Bush did from the outset was woefully inadequate, and then they privatized the occupation thru the Heritage Foundation website, 22 year olds in charge of billions of dollars in contrats, $8 bil missing, petty cash in Bremer's office of $640 mil (that's one pallet of shrink wrapped Benjamins), and now 31 months later parts of Baghdad still have no working sewers, or electricity, or running water. And for all the US contracts, any work that gets done is by locals who are subcontracted out by Bechtel or Halliburton.
The road from the Airport into Baghdad still isn't secure.
My conscience requires me to call for Bush to fire Rumsnamara, fire Cheney, fire Condi, and turn Iraq over to someone who can snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, create order from chaos, win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people.
How can you tell Iraq is FUBAR? Not one Iraqi has turned in any insurgent group, safe-house or bomb lab. Why not? Because the people either love the terrorists more than they love us, or fear them more than they fear us. Either way, we are losing because of George W Bush's incompetence, p!zz poor leadership, and empty rhetoric.

In order to try to keep some kind of support for the Iraq war,some of the RNC Republicans keep telling us that we must win there or the war will be here. Do they mean that Iraqi's will be invading the US or that the war on terrorism is relagated to Iraq? Both are as wrong as you can get. We didn't invade Iraq to stop terrorism because there were none there at the time. Bush's incompetence let them into that country. Their leader and our arch enemy was somewhere else and still is. Maybe these guys still get their facts from Limbaugh, the illegal drug buyer from Florida. Some spoksman these guys have. I think Limbaugh would make a good cell mate to Libby and Rove myself.

Extracting ourselves from Iraq without leaving a lot of good people hanging isn't going to be easy. Think a combination of Katrina and the Brer Rabbit tarbaby.
Thankfully, al-Quaida(sp?) just made it easier by bombing Jordan. That should wake up a lot of moderate Muslims to these jerks real agendas.
However, we need to do a lot of mea culpas, because of Bush's lies to start the war, the mismanagement of recontruction funding, the way we turned our backs on the Geneva Convention, the lack of oportunities for local Iraqi's to get help rebuilding their own country, and the generally crappy way this whole mess has been handled.
We are only starting to build up the military and police, and who knows what the war-profiteers are and are not doing as far as infrasructure repairs are going.
Hussein studied Viet Nam and figured that we'd loose interest and pull out with the job half done. In the meantime, we are making more recruits for the Baathist insurgency by treating all Sunnis like they are terrorists, and the way we are handling prisoners. Duh! Viet Nam all over again. Those who refused to fight in Viet Nam are making the children of Viet Nam vets do it all over again.

All this bull about leaving the poor people in Iraq hanging if we leave has very little truth to it.Lets face it, we don't care very much about the Iraqi's. We have killed and injured tens of thousands of innocent civilians and we didn't go there to liberate the poor citizens. That was the story that changed when Bush couldn't find all these terrible weapons he just knew they had. If they had a vote today on us staying or leaving, that vote would be for us to leave as fast as we could and it wouldn't even be close. It was Bush that let the terrorist in and now Iraq is stuck with them because we can't kill them as fast as they get new ones. Sound familiar to some other war? It's all about admitting the war party screwed up.That's why we stay and get more Americans killed and wounded. The longer we stay, the more terrorist fill their ranks because we won't leave, a cycle that goes on and on, and they will be there forever because terrorism is in their heads just like Vietnam.The war party really screwed up and Bush and Cheney can't wiggle out of this one. They don't care about the poor Iraqi's or anybody else in the world. Hell, they don't even seem to care about Americans.You RNC boys can do better than that.They have tried to to appeal to our hearts, our patriotism,and even scare us but they are running on empty and America is tired of the Iraq war.It is a colossal screw up by a bunch of people who never went to war, got deferments, let sombody fight and die in Vietnam. Now they created their own Vietnam because they know nothing about wars.

IMHO I think it will be hard to prove that Bush "lied" about the events leading to the invasion of Iraq as he can always say that he was 'mislead' on the information (doesn't say much about his competance does it?!). However, there is little doubt that the Rove/Bush machine set the stage and actively created the perception, through effective use of what used to be called propaganda, that Iraq was involved in 9/11, that there existed WMD and the potential for nuclear war, and that Iraq was a threat to mainland USA. By cherry picking the data, repeatedly emphasizing those aspects that supported their agenda - sadly, with the support of the media that lost their balls and just became a mouthpiece for Bush - they were successful in convincing the American public and the Congress (both of whom seemed to have turned their brains off) that attacking Iraq was the right thing to do.

The only intelligence that was actually on-site in Iraq were the UN weapons inspectors. After repeatedly stating that they had not found any evidence of WMD, they were successfully shouted down with anti-UN rhetoric from Rove/Bush et al.

The morphing of why the US attacked Iraq, from "Weapons of Mass Destruction" and "Mushroom clouds" to "Weapons of mass destruction related program activities" to "liberating the people of Iraq from a tyrant" indicates the lack of honesty in the initial rationalizations.

Even if the rationale for going to war gets a pass, the fact that the US premptively attacked another country on inaccurate intelligence, has never admitted a mea culpa but continued to morph rationalizations as to why it was a good thing to do anyway, strikes me that there were other agendas in play. The baby boomers and older amoung us will remember how the former Soviet Union used the same methods in its expansion attempts that the US fought so hard against. They used to "liberate" countries too.

Don't forget the incompetence on how the war in Iraq has been fought.

I have been a Democrat since I first registered to vote in 1972. I worked the McGovern Campaign
and have been active in other campaigns at the national and state level (MO). What the left wing of the party does not realize (or maybe they do)is that they have alienated many other life long moderates who supported the party in the past. Rob Reiner and Barbara Streisand do not speak for the average person. We need to find a way to bring back this large group of Democrats who have voted Republican since 1980. It saddens me to see what our Party has become.

I have been a Democrat since I first registered to vote in 1972. I worked the McGovern Campaign
and have been active in other campaigns at the national and state level (MO). What the left wing of the party does not realize (or maybe they do)is that they have alienated many other life long moderates who supported the party in the past. Rob Reiner and Barbara Streisand do not speak for the average person. We need to find a way to bring back this large group of Democrats who have voted Republican since 1980. It saddens me to see what our Party has become.

I am not being Republican when I spoke about not leaving the innocent Iraqis hanging. I was speaking from a position of social responsibility, which has never been a Republican position. We went in there, effed up their country worse than it was, and the Baathists are waiting for us to leave, so they can get back to business as usual. That means that a lot of people who have been trying to rebuild their country on a democratic model will get put against the wall and shot. I also spoke about firing the war-profiteers, and getting some accountability on what's going on in the recontruction effort. Also not a Repub position. To accuse someone, who is trying to be deal with reality, of being a Republican is totally irresponsible. Reality is that if we run out on the mess the Bushies created without leaving the Iraqi with some degree of safety and infrastructure is being as irresponsible as the Bushies.

There is no way to prove Bush cooked the books on pre-war intelligence unless one of his inside cronies spills the beans and that won't happen unless it might save someone from jail. Our intelligence community cannot possibly be that bad because grammer school children could have done a better job. Bush sacraficed the CIA head without saying he was responsible, just retired him, and used the CIA as the scapegoat. It has Roves fingerprints all over it because that is the way he works. All you have to do is give it the duck test and it will waddle and quack. That's proof enough for me, and I think that is what Americans are doing right now. All the hype has settled down and people are finally taking a hard look at Bush and they are seeing the truth.

I have been and still am a loyal Democrat. I have voted a straight ticket for decades but what I said about our party makeup needed to be said. It's all about winning and everybody getting a piece of the pie. A piece is much better that none at all and tastes a lot better that what the right wing lunatics have been feeding us for the last five years.

I want to thank all the Democrats writing in this Blog. You are sticking to the truth and your rebuttals are logical. Thank you!
I have taken time out to read all the Democrats statements under this heading and I know you can hold your own. I am so proud that are people have such high IQ'S. It shows in your writings. Have you noticed how many Republicans have been exposed as representing themself's as Religious and by their works,they are not? Have you noticed how many Democrats don't stand on a soap box claiming to be Religious but by their works, they are? You can be sure God has noticed and the people have too.

Butte:
I was not implying by my statements that you are a Republican. Far from it. My statements are aimed at those who seem to have forgotten that the moderate wing of the Democratic Party stood for the working class and stood for principles that made the party great. Moderates also won elections. The Democratic Party controlled the House and the Senate for decades. When the party began drifting to the far left, we lost control of Congress and the Presidency. Might I remind you that there have been two Democratic presidents since 1968 (Carter, Clinton).

What the Democratic Party needs to do is return to a party that is inclusive and represents a greater majority of the people. As an example, there is absolutely no room in the party for pro-life moderates. The platform from the last election made that perfectly clear. Why have states like Missouri (historically Democratic) gone over to the Republican Party? Why hasn't the Party had a focused response to the garbage offered by the Right? We Democrats have given George Bush and the Right a free ride for the past five years. Now that the truth is coming out about the leadup to the war in Iraq, we act like we are surprised! Why doesn't the Party offer a direct challenge to the Republicans in the South? The South was solidly Democratic before 1980.

In summary, the Party cannot affect change unless it starts winning elections on a consistent basis. We as a party must re-evaluate our approach and return to being a party of the people, not just the ultraliberal left. Most working class people could care less about Michael Moorer, Rob Reiner, George Saros and others who want to remake the Party in their image. Working people, both blue and white collar, want to know what specific ideas the Party has about reducing economic disparity. They want to see specific solutions (not "pie in the sky") on health care, jobs, education, gender equality and the war. Let's give the people what they want and deserve.

I believe the Democrats have forgotten to use a very simple and straight forward way of expressing themselves to the American people --a simple but powerful slogan like : the president is lying again to the American people to cover his irreparable mistake .

John
Amen brother.Our party has to be inclusive to win and winning is everything.If our party had tried to take the middle ground and faught these Republicans to stay there,we wouldn't have a George Bush problem or right wing problem in congress or a right wing problem in the Supreme Court.The right wing fringe has allways been out there but until now they couldn't muster enough votes to win much of anything because nationwide the US is pretty much middle of the road. A big part of that middle disliked our party so much because it has become the liberal party and percieved weak,they went Republican. This country will have a hard time recovering from that mistake but we cannot afford to make it again.We have people that can win, but they are not in Washington DC. We all gain when Democrats win and we all loose when they don't.

The Democratic party needs to hold off on breaking out the champagne and caviar. There is still a massive amount of work to be done.

The infrastructure of the party is such that those who are fiscally better off stand a better chance of being heard than those who are not.

As one who is not wealthy, here are some of the ideas that I've tried to float...and have yet to receive any comment about...not even so much as a form letter or auto-responce (which takes all of about 30 seconds to set up).

1: We need a tax structure that is based on percentage of income...not on dollars paid.

2: Pouring half of the nations wealth into a bloated military may have worked fine way back when, but today we need to take some of that money and move it into homeland security... for container inspectors, customs officials, first responders and of course, research into how we can best use modern technology to make our nation safe. We need to realize that we are not living in the 50's anymore, and that the cold war is over.

a) This will NOT affect most military contractors...it simply means they turn their expertise towards helping protect us here at home.

3: We need to end the war on drugs, and replace long prison sentances with mandatory treatment and training programs for non-violent substance abusers. There are a lot better things to do with taxpayer dollars than to waste human resources that we could better use to help rebuild america's infrastructure.

4: We need to eliminate tax cuts and government contracts for corporations that are getting the work we need done at home without putting american workers to work.

5: We need to stop propping up governments where union organizers are killed just so that multinational corporations who aren't paying their fair share of taxes can keep labor costs down while ignoring safety issues which would get them shut down at home.

6: We need to demand that corporations that have polluted our environment either clean up the mess that they've made or lose their corporate charter. No, not 10 years from now when they might be able to buy another election and change the rules again, but NOW.

7: We need to pass a new voting rights act which says, quite simply, that all americans 18 and over have the right to vote in a federal election...and that this right may NOT be interfered with by states in any way shape or form. If somebody is in jail, that shouldn't stop them from being able to fill out a vote by mail ballot.

8: We need a law that prohibits people without a background in broadcasting from serving on the CPB. This law should make it clear that these individuals are barred from serving on the CPB if they have ever worked with any partisan organization, and that they are barred from ever working with PBS or the CPB if they either serve, or have served on Voice of America.

9: We need a law that requires that the cablnet of the President be comprised of people who represent all parties currently in the Senate...and that (to the greatest extent possible) this representation at the cabinette level be proportional.

10: We need to restore the Independant Council law and make it permanent. We further need to expand that law to permit any 10 senators to call for an hearings and independant investigations without permission from whatever party is in power.

11: We need to pass legislation that will do for Unions what has been done for corporations over the past 70 odd years or so.

12: We need to consider the following possibility:

a) Tax all trades on the stock market ($1 per trade).

b) Use the money gained to finance housing construction (Condo's with Rent to Own plans for people regardless of past credit history)

c) Use the money thus aquired to start production of power plants which run on renewable energy. These plants will be publically owned.

d) Utilize the money earned from the power plants to augment our education system.

13: Eliminate the death penalty at the federal level. Replace it with mandatory 100 year prison sentances (no parole) in a maximum security federal prison.

14: We need to start taxing broadcasters. They aren't providing any investigative journalism anymore. Fox, for example, spends much of its programming day spouting the political and philosophical views of Rupert Murdoch...and thats not news.

a) Take the taxes gleaned from broadcasters to take over CSPAN 1-4 and fully fund those, along with PBS. (and eliminate the commercials and pledge drives in the bargain).

b) Pass a law that says people who express views and opinions which can be easily found on corporate television should be required to take their act to a station that wants more of the same. PBS is supposed to offer a choice of culture, enlightenment and alternative views...If we want business as usual there are lots of other stations on the air.

I am open to hearing thoughts on these or other subjects.

Jennifer Warren
jenniew@reflectionz.org

Dubya is among a long list of GOPper presidents who have committed impeachable offenses, from Teflon Ronnie "Iran-contra" Reagan to tricky Dick Ni(swastika)on.The problem is even if we get back the Senate and/or House in 06, the damage will have been done. The Supreme Court will be more right than Attila the Hun, and we'll have to ask our great grandchildren to fix things.

As long as we have big money being contributed to campaigns legally, we will have polititians obligated to who gave it and all the things that should be passed for the good of society never seem to get done. Reform is as easy as putting a cap on any election and that cap is very small with no way around it.Debates would have to be the way of letting the people know who you are and polititians would not be obligated as they are today. Our campaign financing laws are the single biggest problem that contributes to all kind of bribery,graft and corruption in government, yet our citizens don't seemed to be concerned and they are the ones being screwed. If you want to get the crooks out of Washington and Statesmen back there representing the people's needs, change the campaigning financing laws.

A Republican friend of mine asked, why do you blame GWB for all the problems we are facing today.
"SIMPLE", He and his adminstration, plus almost 100% of our Congressmen/women, that are Republicans, have chosen to support the Republican party and its corrupt attacks on the American People. "WE THE PEOPLE" have become an unimportant group to these politicans. If we can't increase their profits, or provide financial growth for Corporate America, we don't have any benefit for them, so we are ignored.