Wednesday Morning Open Thread
We're working on putting together a nice little compilation of photos and reports from last nights National Organizing Kick-Off. You might remember Sue from Lubbock, Texas reporting in shortly before her event was to begin:
My guests are coming over in two hours. I have the all the host materials downloaded. I've been to Kinkos to copy a handout of the power point presentation. I've got the name tags ready to go and a sign up sheet. I also have voter registration materials for people who need to register. I have five Democracy Bond packets printed out and ready. I have my computer set up to enter volunteer information online. A friend is bringing over a laptop and projector for the power point presentation. I expect to have 15 people, maybe more.
It was great to see her in the comments afterward giving an update on how successful her event was. Even better was the sense of inspiration in her words -- something certainly duplicated at event after event throughout all fifty states, sixty college campuses, and twenty countries abroad yesterday evening:
[W]e expected 15 but we had a total of 34 people! I'm very encouraged about the strength of the Democratic Party in this conservative stronghold... The conference call with Gov. Dean was inspiring to the nth degree.
Use this as an open thread.
Comments (302) «
so yesterday the repubs copied our exit plan initiative. today they're copying our war planning criticism. reds are turning blue all over this wonderous country!
Hagel Defends Criticisms of Iraq Policy
Administration Calls Statements by Democrats Harmful to War Effort, Troops
Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-Neb.) strongly criticized yesterday the White House's new line of attack against critics of its Iraq policy, saying that "the Bush administration must understand that each American has a right to question our policies in Iraq and should not be demonized for disagreeing with them."
With President Bush leading the charge, administration officials have lashed out at Democrats who have accused the administration of manipulating intelligence to justify the war in Iraq. Bush has suggested that critics are hurting the war effort, telling U.S. troops in Alaska on Monday that critics "are sending mixed signals to our troops and the enemy. And that's irresponsible."
Hagel, a Vietnam War veteran and a potential presidential candidate in 2008, countered in a speech to the Council of Foreign Relations that the Vietnam War "was a national tragedy partly because members of Congress failed their country, remained silent and lacked the courage to challenge the administrations in power until it was too late."
"To question your government is not unpatriotic -- to not question your government is unpatriotic," Hagel said, arguing that 58,000 troops died in Vietnam because of silence by political leaders. "America owes its men and women in uniform a policy worthy of their sacrifices."
Hagel said Democrats have an obligation to be constructive in their criticism, but he accused the administration of "dividing the country" with its rhetorical tactics.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/15/AR2005111501450.html?referrer=email
Good Morning Everyone!
Nice to have a clearly identified open thread . . .
:)
Posted by fade2bluz on November 16, 2005 at 07:53 AM
Hi ya, bluz. I had class this morning and am just now getting back online. The other students loved my pancake pie bake. ;)
I give to my local democratic club and/or executive board as well as working my slacker off doing fundraisers. This gives to local dems campaigns as well as helps pay any apportionment monies our county owes the state party.
I give on the state level by attending their dinners & parties (woo-hoo! I love a party!) and contribute to the direct campaign. I will never give to moveon or any other "progressive" cause ever again. The time we had the foilhat event was enough for me. My piddly $250 donation and the cost of the programs could have bought a lot of ads or air time for someone local. The up side is, meeting others from around the USA was priceless!
I'm hoping that these "meetups/organizational meetings" don't over shadow the county political organizations. It will divide the grassroots efforts.
Hello all ... I really enjoyed last night's kickoff. We had about 45 people in Boise, ID, ready to get to work.
Gov. Dean mentioned that there's somewhere on the DNC site where we can sign up to get a weekly message email from the DNC, but I don't remember where it is on the site. Can someone help?
I already am on the DNC email list, but this sounded like something else (especially since he said 11,000 people are on it - I'm sure there are way more on the email list).
Thanks, and here's to MUCH success in 2006.
Julie
Write the senators!
Samuel Alito could not have put it more plainly. "The Constitution," he wrote in a 1985 job application he posted to the Reagan administration's attorney general, Ed Meese, "does not protect a right to an abortion."
Click Here
I hope these meetings will activate those who hosted/attended to run for precinct committee person.
Back to the grind for me.
Posted by Paul on November 16, 2005 at 11:12 AM
I suppose reasonable minds can disagree on abortion, although I'm inclined to err on the side of caution and say that the Constitution provides a limited (not absolute, but very few, if any, rights are absolute) protection of the right to abortion. But from your link, I find this even more shocking:
Alito's antipathy toward Roe wasn't the only high point of his '85 job application. He also noted that he disagreed with the Warren Court's decisions "in the areas of criminal procedure, the Establishment Clause and reapportionment." Reapportionment? By far the most notable reapportionment decision of the Warren Court was its famous one-man, one-vote ruling, which required state legislatures to create districts of equal population. By 1985 this decision -- unlike Roe -- had won universal acceptance. What on earth did Alito disagree with here? The disenfranchisement of pasture and cow?
Posted by bb on November 16, 2005 at 10:57 AM
It's nice too see more conservatives finally voicing their distaste for the President's war policy (well, his lack thereof), perhaps I'm NOT alone. Well, I can dream, can't I?
Posted by redstaterebel on November 16, 2005 at 11:12 AM
We had 10 people in Nampa, Idaho...not a bad turnout actually.
One thing for certain, Dean is a fabulous motivator.
Posted by Terry on November 16, 2005 at 11:26 AM
And to think, it only took the Supreme's 190 years to realize the equal district population idea set forth by Thomas Paine in the aptly titled 'Common Sense'.
As a follow-up to my last post . . .
Although they've made overturning Roe their focal point, the conservatives' judicial agenda does not end there. Make no mistake about it, if they get their way, they will roll back Constitutional jurisprudence in this country 100 years. At a minimum.
Posted by AmericaFirst on November 16, 2005 at 11:30 AM
You know what? If this is true, I think we found what we could use to defeat this nomination. I know abortion is the "sexier" (pun not intended) issue, but if we get the word out that Alito would overturn Baker v. Carr, if he got his chance, we'll have everyone but the extreme lunatic-fringe right and the blind-faith Bush supporters demanding that their Senator oppose his confirmation.
I hear ya A1.
But it is really convenient for them to do it now that we are within a year of elections. I don't trust a word that comes out of their mouth. Some of these conservative senators have acted (and voted) like right wing nut jobs run amok the past couple of years. There is an agenda for Republicans to turn against Bush because it is the fashionable thing to do in this country right now (and for good reason!!).
MNDem
It's nice to see a Republican stand up and say that it is patriotic to question your government. I respect the guy for standing up to party leaders and saying that, even though I may disagree with him on other things.
It'd be nice if we could get back to having healthy debates about government policies without accusing those who disagree of lacking patriotism. It's like when people of one religion call those of another religion "atheists". It not only stinks, it reveals that one's argument must be pretty weak. If the truth were really on Bush's side, he wouldn't have to resort to such underhanded tactics.
Posted by MNDem on November 16, 2005 at 11:35 AM
Sorry, I just get a little hopeful that there are moderate conservatives like myself who don't blame only Bush for the out of control spending, reckless environmental policy, and lack of stance on illegal immigration. It takes more than one man to spin us out of control like we now are.
But it is really convenient for them to do it now that we are within a year of elections. I don't trust a word that comes out of their mouth. Some of these conservative senators have acted (and voted) like right wing nut jobs run amok the past couple of years. There is an agenda for Republicans to turn against Bush because it is the fashionable thing to do in this country right now (and for good reason!!).MNDem
So true! But what is more disappointing is that these guys are coming forward and many of OUR leaders, Clinton for one, are being silent about this. They should be on the front line, saying what Hagel said yesterday.
No, it takes an administration, Congress, and general public with enough enablers to allow Bush and Cheney to have their way.
I understand. I don't necessarily believe that moderate conservatives are the enemy. There is such a slippery slope, however. Just like here in Minnesota. Norm Coleman was projecting himself as a very moderate Republican (he used to be a Democrat as mayor for St. Paul for cripes sakes). But, Wellstone was still coasting to a win. Then, Wellstone's unfortunate plane accident happens and Coleman wins by a hair. Now the "moderate conservative" votes in lock-step with the most extreme members of the Republican party. I wish some of these senators and congressmen would get out of Washington and meet with their constituents more often instead of getting brainwashed by lobbyists and members of their own party.
Posted by Terry on November 16, 2005 at 11:33 AM
Made me go read up, ya did :-) Reynolds v Sims goes hand-in-glove. If either or both were overturned, would that mean that the DeLay-style gerrymandering could stand indefinitely with no recourse? At the moment, there should be recourse (if anyone had the money) to challenge the weird, snakey, enemy-vote-diluting, friendly-vote-concentrating districting the repubs put in place. Or is there really, and is that why the districts still stand?
It's disgusting to see any party trying that and it's past irritating that the current crop appear to be getting away with it.
I just don't know enough about this kind of law to know what to think, yet.
Posted by Terry on November 16, 2005 at 11:33 AM
I think you could be right Terry. Abortion is an extremely touchy, passion-related subject, whereas the equal-voting issue (among others) allows us and others to think more logically and rationally, to bring us down to a less personal level. Such issues are easier for the common voter to get on board with.
Personally, in my and only my OPINION (we know what those are equated to), the Democrats should step away a bit from the abortion issue, allow it to fade a bit for now and focus on issues that are not quite so apt to ignite extreme sensitivities or emotions, purely political issues. Judge Alito has provided enough fuel for fires other than abortion. Like I said, that is only my OPINION, and is to be taken as such, and not as some type of guidance for others to follow.
You may not have seen this -- The Details of Who Lied . . .
Click Here
Good Morning Everyone!
Nice to have a clearly identified open thread . . .
:)
Posted by Paul on November 16, 2005 at 11:01 AM
INDEED!!
Our Casualties Mounted Today
11/16/05 IBS: Report: Son Of Westerly Woman Killed In Iraq
Lance Cpl. Nickolas David Schiavoni was killed Tuesday by a suicide car bomber, the Marine's mother, Stephany Kern, told NBC 10 media partner The Westerly Sun.
11/16/05 National Guard and Reserve Mobilized as of November 16, 2005
This week, the Army and Air Force announced an increase in the number of reservists on active duty, while the Navy, Coast Guard and Marine Corps had a decrease. The net collective result is 2,780 more reservists mobilized than last week.
11/16/05 BBC: UK used white phosphorus in Iraq
UK troops have used white phosphorus in Iraq - but only to create smokescreens, Defence Secretary John Reid has said.
11/16/05 NYTimes: 5 Marines Killed as U.S. Pushes Sweep in Western Iraq
Five Marines were killed and 11 were wounded this morning while they searched a house on the outskirts of this town in western Anbar Province, officials said.
11/16/05 KRT: Mother blames policy for son's Iraq injuries
Latseen Benson, in the 101st Airborne, was struck Sunday by a roadside bomb in Tikrit, north of Bagdad. He lost his legs and possibly part of an arm on Sunday, and was in a coma Tuesday night in a hospital in Germany.
11/16/05 CENTCOM: MARINE DIES FROM VBIED (confirmed)
A Marine assigned to Regimental Combat Team 8, 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward), was killed in action by a suicide VBIED attack while conducting combat operations against the enemy near Al Karmah, Nov. 15.
11/16/05 DoD Identifies Marine Casualties
Maj. Ramon J. Mendoza Jr., 37, of Columbus, Ohio, and Lance Cpl. Christopher M. McCrackin, 20, of Liverpool, Texas, both died Nov. 14 from an IED while conducting combat operations against enemy forces during Operation Steel Curtain in New Ubaydi, Iraq.
11/16/05 DoD Identifies Marine Casualty
Cpl. John M. Longoria, 21, of Nixon, Texas, died Nov. 14 of wounds sustained from small arms fire while conducting combat operations against enemy forces during Operation Steel Curtain in New Ubaydi, Iraq.
11/16/05 Reuters: U.S Marine killed by car bomb near Falluja
A U.S marine was killed by a car bomb in Karmah near Falluja, 50 km (35 miles) west of Baghdad, the U.S military said in a statement.
George W. Bush has slaughtered 2,080 boys as of today!
Here's my report from the New Orleans Democratic Lawn Chair Rendezvous last night.
It's like we're playing Russian Roulette with this culture of corruption we've allowed to bloom at all levels of our government.
Which one of us will go when the next disaster strikes?
http://kunselman.info/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=10&blogId=1
I get the feeling the new Order around this blog would rather we ONLY chat if we are hosting parties and marching in visually observed parades for the party????
Sorry, I served my time in the military and maybe it was that but I don't march or gather for orders any more!
Doesn't make me any less of a Democrat. jmo.
If you haven't read Woodward's statement, you will probably find it interesting:
Click Here
Posted by Dawnelle on November 16, 2005 at 12:52 PM
I know what you mean. I'm of the opinion that ideas are better spread by simple conversation, a small planting of the seed using a well placed comment. I generally find people to be much more receptive that way.
AF did you serve? curious.
I am quite sure being ordered around for 6 yrs is what makes me quick to jump back now days.
You are the republican that can't find a PUG home to chat in? Why not become an Independent (at least?)
Republicans that don't change are a REAL threat to some here. Just so you know.
Posted by Dawnelle on November 16, 2005 at 01:05 PM
Actually, I'm active duty right now (I've been in for 8 years now). And, I'm not a Republican. I hold generally moderate conservative views on most topics, but I've found that I tend to be more in agreement with many here than I ever thought possible. I'm about as independent as they come. Fact is, I hope Gov. Mark Warner runs in '08 so that I have someone to vote for!
No, no, no!
Wes CLARK! or AL GORE!
I turned back into a PROUD Democrat with AL. (old story here by now) I was so proud of myself. hehe.
What can I say I really liked that old fart Perot! He made me laugh! Had AL Sharpton run back then I'd have voted for him. I didn't DO politics back then.
I didn't know anyone else that did either.
But we never had a SHRUB in the White House until recently (I started paying more attention during the first Bush)
I understand that many folks here are very guarded when it comes to any conservatives coming here, and I can't say I blame them. I've seen some of the people you call trolls come in here, and they are pretty repugnant. I don't come here to be disruptive (I was a bit on Monday, but I've since toned myself down some on certain issues, because like I said, I find myself in agreement on more issues here than in disagreement).
this stuff makes me want to puke no matter who does it. too bad we thought we could wade into the middle east and fix things. they look as screwed up as ever and if anything we got ourselves unfixed to boot.
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - An Iraqi student who said he was held with prisoners in an Interior Ministry bunker described on Wednesday how he was hung blindfolded in excruciating positions and called a "Sunni dog" by his Shi'ite interrogators.
He was speaking after more than 170 detainees were discovered in the bunker on Sunday night during a raid by U.S. troops who were searching for a missing teenage boy.
"They blindfolded me and tied my hands behind my back and then hung me by a ceiling hook. My shoulders and arms felt like they would come off," the former detainee, who asked to be identified only by his initials, M.I., told Reuters.
"Other times we had to stand up straight and not move for 10 straight hours or face more torture."
I was in class last night, change chance the call is available for download today?
Posted by Dawnelle on November 16, 2005 at 01:14 PM
Everybody has a turning point story. Lord knows I have mine. But lets say we just agree to disagree on our preferred candidates for '08, since arguing about it won't change either of our keen military minds. :-)
ethics, now there is a term that the bush team has never wrapped its head around:
LONDON (Reuters) - Global warming poses an enormous ethical challenge because countries that produce the least amount of greenhouse gases will suffer the most from climate change, scientists said on Wednesday.
Whether it is an increase in poor health from diseases such as malaria or shrinking water supplies, nations in sub-Saharan Africa, Asia and South America are vulnerable to the consequences of changes in global temperatures.
The World Health Organization (WHO) has estimated that climate change leads to more than 150,000 deaths every year and at least 5 million cases of illness.
In a review of the impact of global warming on public health, researchers at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and the WHO predict countries in Africa and coastal nations along the Pacific and Indian Oceans will be hardest hit.
ethics anyone?
If you're in the military NOW? Why are you wasting time on the net? Don't you have a job? Unless your job is working on the NET? Spying on democrats?
lol joking
Posted by Dawnelle on November 16, 2005 at 01:23 PM
Shhh! You'll blow my cover! :) No, bit of a standdown phase right now. In regards to your earlier question, no, I don't think Warner served. But to be the Governor of Virginia, you have to keep a pretty good rapport with the military.
Actually, I could agree with you on Clark, maybe a Warner/Clark ticket (or vice-versa). I applaud Mr. Gore on his environmental stances, but I'm not sure how he would look a second time around. I'm not against him or anything, just hesitant.
Warner/Edwards 2008
Posted by MNDem on November 16, 2005 at 01:32 PM
That'll work too!
Posted by AmericaFirst on November 16, 2005 at 01:29 PM
An honest opinion, I can appreciate that. Gore had my M.O.S. (I think he held both of them) and he's so much thought of where the internet is concerned! I love his forward thinking ways.
NO no no! At least ONE of them must have served their country! imo
Posted by AmericaFirst on November 16, 2005 at 01:29 PM
Maybe you can provide some of us (me) with some info on your man...I'm willing to listen.
I was a huge Kerry fan (still am), but I understand that some have hesitancy with that. And, then there is the tinfoil part of me that believes that we could ressurect Reagan as a democrat and still not win b/c of voter fraud.
So, sell me.
Posted by BlueinIdaho on November 16, 2005 at 01:35 PM
Man, I never thought I would be selling a Democrat, but here goes nothing (I think hell just froze over!):
(this is from http://www.draftmarkwarner.com)
1. Turned a $6 billion deficit into a $544 Million surplus
2. Eliminated or merged more than 70 duplicative or unnecessary boards and commissions and eight state agencies
3. Salvaged Virginia’s threatened AAA bond rating
4. Double-digit unemployment has plummeted in 12 of 13 of the most distressed counties
5. 97% of all eligible children enrolled in heath care
6. Single largest investment in K-12 education in state history
7. Second largest increase in college and university funding in the nation
8. Highest math SAT score increase in the nation
9. 700 miles of broadband connecting nearly 700,000 citizens and more than 19,000 businesses
Now I know that is only one state, but Virginia has been rated as THE #1 Best Managed State by the independent Government Performance Project. His (and Mr. Clark's) endorsement has been credited with giving Dem. Tim Kaine the recent victory in the Virginia gubernatorial election.
Warner is a little socially conservative for my taste. I prefer Russ Feingold. The guy voted against the Patriot Act. He wants a timetable for Iraq. He is very fiscally conservative. He even bucked consensus and voted against pork barrel spending. I'll see if I can link for you.
Refreshing to see a Senator turn down pay raises. Even when he gets them he sends them to the treasury.
http://www.russfeingold.org/#Issues
He's considered very "liberal" but has a conservative fiscal policy.
Forget it. It says he's a moderate on social issues. I don't think I could vote for him.
pdf files on the warner site
Where is he on Equal Rights? Choice? Etc?
Posted by Dawnelle on November 16, 2005 at 01:51 PM
http://www.governor.virginia.gov/
That is the governor's official website. Type in any issue in the 'search' box, and it will give you either his position, voting record, or both. It would take all day to try to list them on here. I can tell you he supports Equal Rights (but that is a broad category, so I'm not sure if he supports everything?!), he is pro-choice but is opposed to all post-viability abortions - except to protect the mother's life or her health.
Dawny our state failed for reproductive rights. He believes marriage should be limited to between a man and a woman and does not support even civil unions. He's pro death penalty. He is very conservative on most social issues. I'd love to see him kick Allen's butt in the Senate but I won't vote for him in Dem primary.
Posted by Dawnelle on November 16, 2005 at 02:05 PM
The purpose of representative government is for the elected official to represent the will of the people that put them in that position. That is what makes the primaries so much fun! As for me, I'm socially conservative on many issues, and will cast my vote for the candidate I find appropriate, as I'm sure you will vote for the one that best fits your perspective. Ain't democracy grand!
Ready for your Laugh of the Day???
The Righties are tired of the songs against Bush, so they have one written now, they want The Right Brothers to sing. Check out the Lyrics! Written by a 1st Grader! LMAO!
And don't forget to check out comments below the article. Especially #13 !
Thanks Christine! That explains a LOT! And for MOST of the reasons you named I have to agree with you.
I don't want any ones rights being denied. I would also like States to have more rights! Then people can be more selective where they live. At least that would make it easy for MOI! I love to travel but living would be preferable in a BLUE state if I could. Hopefully Florida will change back in 08!
Kick Jebby off to boot camp as wel!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051116/ts_nm/energy_cheney_dc_1
Cheney and oil execs caught with hands in cookie jar.
Forget it. It says he's a moderate on social issues. I don't think I could vote for him.
That seems pretty hasty. I don't necessarily think there is anything wrong with being moderate. I thought Gore was great and I voted for him. But, give me a break. Even though we got screwed in the election, Gore barely had enough to beat BUSH. What if the Republicans had put out a better candidate than Bush? Gore would have had absolutely no shot. I am in agreement with a lot of liberal views, but I also realize that many people in the country do not. Besides, the Presidents position should be moderate, since he/she are the one that is representing all of us. Senators and congressman don't necessarily have to be moderates, they should represent their constituency.
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 02:08 PM
Actually, HB 751, the bill that would have made civil unions illegal, was vetoed by Gov. Warner, who thought it to be unconstitutional. He stated that it would be wrong for Virginia to go farther than any other state to restrict legal relationship (i.e. Civil Unions).
Posted by MNDem on November 16, 2005 at 02:16 PM
Sorry MN indeed it was hasty because I am now having to leave.
I still think calling yourself a moderate is "sometimes" a cop out way of saying you have a prejudice against someones color or sexual preference (likes its anyones GD business) ya know?
Not saying any ONE in particular is..... I just don't buy it.
L8ter!! :-)
Good and funny web site PamB:
I like this comment - Fortunately those that watch that shit on MTV couldn’t find a polling place anywhere that didn’t have funny cigarette smoke pouring out the door. This is no surprise. Tbe Bushco has always appealed to those with IQ’s less than their shoe size. Why should we expect more?
AmericaFirst
I live in his state he has stated he believes marriage is between a man and a woman period. Yes, he is in a a state that by a slim majority is socially conservative but that does not mean that you oppose equal treatment for minorities (which is what I consider homosexuals)
Gore barely had enough to beat BUSH. What if the Republicans had put out a better candidate than Bush?
Did you not pay any attention to the election that Bush stole? Gore had a good many votes over Bush - they just didn't count them. Perhaps a better statement would be, What if the Democrats had put out a better battle to have all votes counted....
http://www.washblade.com/2004/4-23/news/localnews/override.cfm
According to this he didn't veto it. He just voiced concerns over its constitutionality. It opened the door for legal challenge.
Hey Kathy! How are you?
I'm not sure what more Dems could have done as far as the Gore/Bush election. They took it all the way to the Supreme Court. Got shot down, but I don't know where they could go from there.
Hey Am1st ! I didn't know you were active duty. Cool. and Thank You, sir. (ma'am? - I'm not sure.)
:)
Hey, all. If you want a reminder of how truly evil some of these people on the other side are, this one just jumped up and slapped me in the face. I won't paint with too broad a brush and lump everyone of them in that category, but certainly, this poster is not alone.
Beyond disgusting
Posted by Kathy_in_Indiana on November 16, 2005 at 02:28 PM
. . . or a better candidate than Gore?
Did you not pay any attention to the election that Bush stole? Gore had a good many votes over Bush - they just didn't count them. Perhaps a better statement would be, What if the Democrats had put out a better battle to have all votes counted....
I understand this. But if we would have put out a better candidate than Gore in 2000, the vote wouldn't have been so close and the Republicans wouldn't have even had an opportunity to steal the election.
Terry,
Go to the "Report Abuse" icon on that page, and it references that post, and add your comments about the Viciousness and Hatred of someone hating Democrats so much, they would talk about raping their children!!!!!
I need to go puke, now.
Forget it. It says he's a moderate on social issues. I don't think I could vote for him.
Posted by Dawnelle on November 16, 2005 at 02:05 PM
Dawn, I know you know Clark better than I do, but I always thought he was quite moderate myself. Why the difference between Clark and Warner in your perception?
As for me, Warner wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd vote for him if he becomes the nominee. Certainly, he'd be a quantum leap improvement over the one who's there now.
There are many Democrats whom I will go out and vote for, but my level of support will be based on who it is. Warner leaves me luke warm. So does Bayh. Hillary, unless she retracts her support for Iraq, I cannot support her.
Clark I like, but don't honestly think he can win as Pres. VP, maybe.
Kerry, I feel like been there, done that. I don't think he could win a second time around.
Edwards, a cutie, but does he have enough experience for Top Position?
Richardson, a man I could get behind and fight for. He looks like a man to be trusted.
Posted by Terry on November 16, 2005 at 02:38 PM
Wow. That "person" needs help. If the topic wasn't so disgusting it would be laughable---he equates good Christian men with those that won't lift a finger to help their fellow man. Ahhhh, the twisted "logic" of the wacky right.
Did you all get a chance to view the photos from last night's meet-ups so far? Wish I could have attended one, but had a prior committment
http://www.democrats.org/a/party/a_50_state_strategy/national_organizing_kickoff/
I listened to Dean last night and was struck by something he said that keeps coming up on this blog today. He said that the labels we give one another, Liberal, Centrist, Moderate, Conservative do not add anything to the Democratic party and are used primarily by the Republicans to frame the opposition. I tend to agree. If you place a label on a potential candidate and then toss him aside based on that label, what have you gained?
Richardson, a man I could get behind and fight for. He looks like a man to be trusted.
I have to agree on Mr. Richardson as well. He has a long list of accomplishments and has served in some pretty important positions.
It is no secret that a majority of the people in the south are conservative. We, as democrats, are not going to get them to change cold turkey. First, we need to warm them into being moderates. Then, once they have opened their mind, they will see how great our party is.
That is why I feel having a moderate president or vice president with southern qualities is important in 2008.
Does anybody know if they are going to post Dean's speeches from last night on this website. We had our event at our local government center and the room didn't have a speakerphone :(
Yeah, and who am I going to believe, you, or my lying eyes?
U.S. defends use of white phosphorus.
Reuters - 1 hour, 8 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - The Pentagon on Wednesday acknowledged using incendiary white-phosphorus munitions in a 2004 counterinsurgency offensive in the Iraqi city of Falluja, but defended their use as legal. Army Lt. Col. Barry Venable, a Pentagon spokesman, said the U.S. military had not used the highly flammable weapons against civilians, contrary to an Italian state television report this month which said the weapons were used against men, women and children in Falluja who were burned to the bone. "We categorically deny that claim," Venable said.
Yahoo News
Posted by Domingo on November 16, 2005 at 02:57 PM
I remember the pictures that were posted long ago from that battle. At the time they thought the material was agent orange. Our leaders are barbarians.
I think that everyone may have a different opinion on what a "moderate" is. I don't consider Warner moderate. I consider him socially conservative and fiscally progressive. Of course, that's just my opinion. It doesn't mean I don't like him or that I wouldn't vote for him. He just wouldn't be my first choice.
Pam,
Tell me why you like Richardson. I haven't heard a whole lot about him but I am interested because he seems to have diplomacy skills and he'll have a good handle and credibility on the immigration issue.
Bill Clinton calls Iraq war, 'a big mistake.'
DUBAI, United Arab Emirates Nov 16, 2005 — Former President Clinton told Arab students Wednesday the United States made a "big mistake" when it invaded Iraq, stoking the partisan debate back home over the war.
Clinton cited the lack of planning for what would happen after Saddam Hussein was overthrown.
"Saddam is gone. It's a good thing, but I don't agree with what was done," Clinton told students at a forum at the American University of Dubai.
"It was a big mistake. The American government made several errors … one of which is how easy it would be to get rid of Saddam and how hard it would be to unite the country."
Clinton's remarks came when he was taking questions about the U.S. invasion, which began in 2003. His response drew cheers and a standing ovation at the end of the hour-long session.
ABC News
I think you'll have a hard time convincing folks that Richardson is the right guy to balance the budget though. His state takes in more federal dollars than it contributes to the kitty. In all fairness though I don't know if it has gotten better or worse since he has taken office.
He said that the labels we give one another, Liberal, Centrist, Moderate, Conservative do not add anything to the Democratic party and are used primarily by the Republicans to frame the opposition. I tend to agree.
I agree, blue, Either one is a Democrat or one is a Republican. One has to make a decision which party their ideals are most closely aligned with, and go from there.
To which Degree they believe in the party has no bearing.
And if you Choose Democrat or you Choose Republican, I do not think people should be trying to 'tweak' the party to fit their own views. Accept it.
contrary to an Italian state television report this month which said the weapons were used against men, women and children in Falluja who were burned to the bone. "We categorically deny that claim.
Pam, they can "categorically deny that claim" all they want to, I saw the dead men's, women's and children's melted bodies. We got us a real live "war criminal" in the White House.
Pam B,
But sometimes the label Democrat can be misleading as well. Would you call Lieberman a Democrat? He calls himself one and yet I'd say that a good bulk of the time he is in agreement with the GOP.
In just over two years, Governor Richardson has made good on his campaign promises to improve education, cut income taxes and the tax on food, build a high-wage economy, develop a statewide water plan and make New Mexico safer by getting tough on DWI, domestic violence and sex crimes. Governor Richardson has been credited for implementing the most forward-looking clean energy agenda in the nation.
As a result, New Mexico is now a national leader in job growth and economic momentum. The state has a balanced budget and one of the highest budget reserves in the country.
Governor Richardson currently serves as Chairman of the Democratic Governors’ Association. Governor Richardson is also past chairman of:
Western Governors’ Association
Border Governors’ Conference
2004 Democratic National Convention
Governor Richardson served for 15 years as New Mexico’s Representative in the 3rd Congressional District. Governor Richardson served in 1997 as the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, and in 1998, he was unanimously confirmed by the U.S. Senate as Secretary of the U.S. Department of Energy. Governor Richardson has been nominated several times for the Nobel Peace Prize.
I think it is easier to look at issues rather than political party especially when you are looking at a primary when all the contenders will be Democrats.
Posted by Domingo on November 16, 2005 at 03:05 PM
Now if he can only convince his wife. She is starting to irk me.
Here's the rub though. As of 2003 NM got $1.99 for each dollar they gave in revenue to the Federal government. While their bond rating is good and it appears that he knows how to balance a budget the idea that they spend more than they take in really disturbs me.
I realize part of it is the immigration issue. I just wonder how much.
Christine,
No one despises Lieberman more than I do, but yes, I consider him a Democrat, because he adds to our seats in the Senate.
And his efforts to lean to the right and vote with them on issues, like last week's striking down of habeas corpus for Prisoners, is an effort to gain favor with Republicans for his own personal Political aspirations. Has nothing to do with his own views.
But he Does vote Left on various issues, so I have to count him.
Now if he can only convince his wife. She is starting to irk me.Posted by BlueinIdaho on November 16, 2005 at 03:16 PM
BlueinIdaho, I'm sure she's trying to figure out what's worse, to have the Democrat voters mad at her for not taking a stand, or have the Republicans call her a "Flip-Flopper" when she runs for president. "I was for the war, before I was against it." See, that's what Democrats get for listening to Republicans. And now Bush is even saying the disaster in Iraq is just as much their fault as it is his. So much for the "personal responibility" President, huh? Guy blames everybody for his problems but his self.
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 03:20 PM
It's pretty tough, however, when you don't have very many corporations or residents to support the bottom line, tax dollar wise. Nothing against NM (I've been there and its beautiful), but there doesn't seem to be a lot of people flocking there (although it is becoming more of a snowbird location).
At a Pentagon news conference, Rumsfeld noted the Iraq Liberation Act that Congress passed in 1998 had said it should be U.S. government policy to support Saddam's removal from power. He noted that Clinton signed the act and ordered four days of bombing in December 1998.
PamB, the Iraq Liberation Act that Congress passed in 1998 and Clinton signed was Joe Lieberman's bill. Old Joe has wanted this war more than anything else in his life since the first Gulf war ended in 1991. He'll stab any Democrat in the back he can to help the Repugs keep this war going.
Sunnis Seek Torture Probe; 5 Marines Die
AP - 1 hour, 16 minutes ago
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Iraq's main Sunni Arab political party on Wednesday demanded an international investigation into allegations that security forces illegally detained and tortured suspected insurgents at secret jails in Baghdad. Five U.S. Marines were killed in a firefight in the western Iraqi town of Obeidi near the Syrian border, the military said. That brought to 2,079 the number of U.S. service members who have died since the war began in 2003, according to an Associated Press count.
Yahoo News
I hope y'all don't mind and think I'm trying to tear down who you feel passionate about.I'm still trying to figure out which candidate I identify with best. I'm trying to explore all the pluses and minuses of each. I definitely like Richardson over Warner but a little less then Feingold.
BRITISH USE OF CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN IRAQ
What it used to be like in the old days. The question of "outlaw weapons" such as poison gas is very much one of time and place. Meanwhile, new weapons, such as cluster bombs and fuel-air bombs which suck out all oxygen over hundreds of square yards and suffocate every living creature, are unquestioned by us in the West.
"Bomber" Sir Arthur Harris, the British commander noted below, is now blamed by civilian authorities as the commander responsable for ordering the the phosphorus fire bombing of Dresden. From 150,000 to 250,000 refugees, mainly women, children and old men fleeing the invading Russian Army were immolated at the very end of the Second World War. These were far more deaths than at Heroshima (80,000) or Nagasaki. The raids were carried out by British bombers, together with the United States 8th Air Force, first with explosive bombs to break open the roof tops of buildings. and followed with phosporous bombs to successfully set off a (planned) devastating firestorm.
While the use of poison gas is now "outlawed" by the Geneva convention, the oft repeated accusation that Saddam gassed his own people neglects an important fact. Halabaja, the town where it took place, was at the time occupied by invading Iranian forces, and, according to MSNBC Internet Home News, hundreds of Iranians and civilians were killed. Now, this theory is under revision, see Jude Wanniski's criticism . Judging from all the lies promulgated about Iraq, his study is very revealing.
Article follows
Raw story has a "developing" on who Woodward's source was in WH. Woodward got to spend some quality time with Fitzgerald.
Fitzmas part deaux maybe?
I wonder what Mr. Cheney's horoscope looked like this AM.
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 03:53 PM
If only the american public would ask more questions about their candidates instead of getting herded like sheep by the likes of Foxspews.
MN DEM
It seems the bar is pretty low right now.
Last election was decided by who we thought we would be more likely to have a beer with.
Since the President is not likely to be inviting me to have a beer :) I prefer to go the more cerebral route and actually focus on issues that are important like Budget, Diplomacy, Health care reform etc.etc. I pray that the majority of the country feels the same this go round.
So what's going on today is nothing new. It's just the same old, same old.
Our last occupation
Gas, chemicals, bombs: Britain has used them all before in Iraq
In 1917, following the defeat of the Ottoman Empire, the British occupied Iraq and established a colonial government. The Arab and Kurdish people of Iraq resisted the British occupation, and by 1920 this had developed into a full scale national revolt, which cost the British dearly. As the Iraqi resistance gained strength, the British resorted to increasingly repressive measures, including the use of posion gas.
Guardian
I wonder what Mr. Cheney's horoscope looked like this AM.
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 03:56 PM
DOB 1-31-41
AQUARIUS
Wednesday, November 16, 2005
Your possible soulmate needs some advice. Do not be delusional about what this could mean. Be rational and steer this person closer to you with subtle promises of protection and assurances. Figure out the details later; emphasize seductive communication now.
Spain probes 'secret CIA flights'
Spain is launching an investigation into claims that CIA planes carrying terror suspects made secret stopovers on Spanish soil.
Interior Minister Jose Antonio Alonso made the announcement on Spanish television on Tuesday.
He said that if proven, such activities could damage relations between the Spanish and US governments.
more...BBC News
So does this mean that Cheney and Putin have a meeting today. Or is Putin only W's soulmate?
The newest member of the "Loose Lips" award goes to National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley. D'oh. Does anyone in this administration understand what the word CLASSIFIED means?
I have always found it incomprehensible that the "senior officials" in the WH, knew and referred to Wilson's wife only as "Mrs. Wilson".
Does anyone in their right mind believe that Chaney and Rove found out about Wilson's wife sending him to Niger, and didn't bother to find out any background on her??? I would bet my house that there is nothing they didn't find out about her, including her shoe size...Didn't know her name, yet right!!
The fact that they didn't refer to her my name is pretty revealing itself.
Last election was decided by who we thought we would be more likely to have a beer with.
If that was the case, I would have voted for Bush. Except that I would have had about a case of beer, turned into an angry drunk, and pummeled the hell out of him.
I still do that it my dreams sometimes :)
Last election was decided by who we thought we would be more likely to have a beer with.
Not that that's my criteria, but if it were, I still would have picked Kerry.
I suspect that Kerry could have a beer and still be able to carry on a semi-intelligent, semi-coherent conversation. I suspect Bush could not.
Big Lie Technique Revisited.
President says we all agreed on need for invasion of Iraq in 2003, had same intelligence as him.
November 15, 2005 – At a time when approximately 57 percent of Americans polled believe that President Bush deceived them on the reasons for the war in Iraq, it does seem a bit redundant to deconstruct the president's recent speeches on that subject. Yet, to fail to do so would be to passively accept the Big Lie technique – which is how we as a nation got into this horrible mess in the first place.
The basic claim of the president's desperate and strident attack on the war's critics this past week is that he was acting as a consensus president when intelligence information left him no choice but to invade Iraq as a preventive action to deter a terrorist attack on America. This is flatly wrong.
His rationalization for attacking Iraq, once accepted uncritically by most in Congress and the media easily intimidated by jingoism, now is known to be false. The bipartisan 9/11 commission selected by Bush concluded unanimously that there was no link between al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein's secular dictatorship, al Qaeda's sworn enemy. And a recently declassified 2002 document proves that Bush's "evidence" for this, available to top administration officials, was based on a single discredited witness.
Clearly on the defensive, Bush now sounds increasingly Nixonian as he basically calls the majority of the country traitors for noticing he tricked us.
more at...Robert Scheer.com
PamB, the Iraq Liberation Act that Congress passed in 1998 and Clinton signed was Joe Lieberman's bill. Old Joe has wanted this war more than anything else in his life since the first Gulf war ended in 1991. He'll stab any Democrat in the back he can to help the Repugs keep this war going.
Posted by Domingo on November 16, 2005 at 03:41 PM
Oh, I agree 100% that Joe wanted this war! Not only is he a Hawk, but to protect Israel, he was only Too Too gung ho for the loss of 2069 US boys to do it.
And you were right on your DLC info too. I pulled out Minority Party last night, went to the index and referenced the pages of DLC. Appears From in 1993 approached Clinton as he was their ideal candidate - i.e. Southern, charismatic, etc, and sold him on their New Democrat ideas.
I will tell you though, I do not completely agree with this author on his review of the party nor what Democrats must do in order to win.
I hope y'all don't mind and think I'm trying to tear down who you feel passionate about.I'm still trying to figure out which candidate I identify with best. I'm trying to explore all the pluses and minuses of each. I definitely like Richardson over Warner but a little less then Feingold.
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 03:53 PM
Christine, LOL
Were you here during the Primaries before last election, 2 years ago? OMG. There was less than polite debte on candidates that everyone was passionate about, Especially Dean's supporters.
If that was the case, I would have voted for Bush. Except that I would have had about a case of beer, turned into an angry drunk, and pummeled the hell out of him.
I still do that it my dreams sometimes :)
Posted by MNDem
Beer is too common a drug for someone as entirely common as Bush. My fantasy would involve getting him totally twisted on wormword (absinth)and then mess mightly with his mind, ala Doestoevsky's Grand Inquisitor, or something appropriate, guaranteed to leave him mumbling for quite a little while.
wormwood, the drink of choice of the impressionists and those inclined to cut off their ears
Yeah Pam, I was planning on warning you and never did. The author of that book Peter Brown thinks that the DLC way is the right way and praises it every chance he gets. He says the Democrat party lost White votes when Dukakis let Jesse Jackson speak at the Democratic National Convention and that Democrats should gett away from those blacks as fast as they can. He goes on to say that if Blacks don't vote it only counts as a loss to the party of one vote, but when we lose White voters, they go over to the Republican side and it's like losing two votes. The same way as when the Senate is fifty-fifty Dems and Repugs and Lieberman votes Repug everytime making all the Repug bills pass 51 to 49. He also tells them to give up on the workers, claiming they're a "loser" for Democrats too. Everything the Democrats stand for the DLC wants them to abandon. It's their belief that the Democrats can never win by doing what the Democratic voters want them to do, but only by doing what the Republican voters want them to do.
Nope, wasn't here in the primaries. I never really considered myself politically active until the Iraq War. My gut and W's seemed to have a difference of opinion. I felt from the get go that weapons inspectors should have been allowed to do their jobs. I guess you can credit GW with making me politically active.(I'd have a hard time coming up with anything else he's done that had a positive effect.) To his credit, I really did respect Senator Kerry. I still remain impressed with his public service. The guy is just a really abyssmal speaker. Transurgience.....heck I didn't even know what it meant and I'm a word buff. We need someone who is plainspoken.
Posted by Domingo on November 16, 2005 at 04:42 PM
Wow! This must be the Zell Miller part of the party. I sure hope we don't go there.
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 03:20 PM
By contrast, New York is is one of the states that is at the bottom in terms of federal dollars received vice federal revenues paid (one of the reasons I was so pissed this morning about Congress and Bush yanking 9/11 aid), yet our credit rating is in the toilet. I suspect that the fact that we subsidize so much of the rest of the country has not helped us, financially speaking.
William,
I was shocked at the part, where the DLC came out with new thinking it tried to get the party to endorse. i.e. Questioned the wisdom of raising the minimum wage, called for increased use of incentives in welfare, requiring national service in return for federal college aid, and linking a worker's pay - to his firm's profitability!!!!!
That is Worse than Republican's views !!!
Not that anyone asked my position on potential Presidential candidates, but fwiw . . .
I still believe in John Kerry and would still support him without hesitation if he chooses to run again. He'd be my first choice. And yes, I realize that I'm in the minority on this blog in that regard.
My Tier 1-A candidates would be Edwards, Richardson and Feingold, not necessarily in that order.
Tier 2 would be Clark, Biden, Dean, Hillary, Gore and Warner, not necessarily in that order. Again, speculation that any of them would run, save possibly for Biden and Warner. I don't think Dean will resign the Party Chair to run again, and he's more effective where he is now, anyway. Being on Faux News won't help Clark, and he won't run against Hillary in any event. Hillary is electoral poison in red-state America. She has a chance to be a great Senator, however -- better, imho to keep her where she is.
In the end, though, I'll probably vote for whoever our nominee is, as I don't think you'll see anyone better emerge.
Terry,
Kerry is a great man, but unfortunetly, as Christine stated, I think his lack of being able to communicate with the average person is a drawback.
requiring national service in return for federal college aid,
I went to college during the Reagan Administration. Unfortunately, that means that I saw massive across-the-board cuts in financial aid. At the same time, they beefed up ROTC scholarships.
I have nothing against people choosing national service or ROTC for an education, but it should be voluntary. And the benefits for such a sacrifice should be pretty good.
See Pam, a lot of people don't understand why I get so irate with the DLC type people that come in here. Everything they advocate makes me sick. Of course they lie just like Republicans and try to make what they stand for sound like something else, so most folks have no idea what the DLC really stands for.
Posted by PamB on November 16, 2005 at 05:04 PM
You know, I never had a problem understanding what Kerry was saying. Then again, both he and I are attorneys, and I'm well aware that at times we speak our own language.
Kerry is a great man, but unfortunetly, as Christine stated, I think his lack of being able to communicate with the average person is a drawback.
Posted by PamB on November 16, 2005 at 05:04 PM
I'm about as average as they get & I understood him. But then, I don't have a problem with those more educated than me. (I mean "I") I have social skills power. ;)
I went to college during the Reagan Administration. Unfortunately, that means that I saw massive across-the-board cuts in financial aid. At the same time, they beefed up ROTC scholarships.
This was the same time the DLC was trying to push that requirement as part of their party adjenda.
In an effort to lean right!
I, personally, will be very happy when the DLC realizes there never has been, nor will there ever be a place for their ideas in the party. I understand they first were formed, when Southern Democrats were tired of Northeastern Democrats being the leaders. But to try and change the party, by leaning it over to half the things that Republicans already did, was not the way to do it.
Let the South produce Some More Great candidates like Clinton, and they can have their place in the white house again.
I like to ponder on 2008 Presidential election too, I just don't say too much. I posted the other day I hope it's Edwards/Clinton.
I think we need to work on changing how our candidates are nominated right here & now or else a minority will determine our choice.
Terry,
As I said, I think John Kerry is an admirable man. However, the average American had a hard time understanding his positions. I think alot of it was because he very clearly gave you not just his thoughts but his thought process. Messages that are too long tend to get lost. My husband said the best thing Senator Kerry could possibly do would be to quit Senate and work on a farm or in a rural setting for a year or two.
Bold,
Isn't Richardson DLC? I think there were a few that were separating themselves from that group.
I got very frustrated when people said that Kerry didn't have a plan. He and Edwards wrote a detailed plan that they put out in book form.
My husband said the best thing Senator Kerry could possibly do would be to quit Senate and work on a farm or in a rural setting for a year or two.
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 05:15 PM
Hi Tine! (can I call you that?) He served in 'Nam, wasn't that hard enough? ;)
I love John Kerry as a person. I don't want to restart this fight again so I don't know if it's better I just keep my shut, but I don't think he fought hard enough against the sewer rat he was going up against. Part of that fault was the DLC giving him bad advice by telling him he could only win if he didn't say anything "negative" about Bush and make the Republican voters mad. He let Bushco beat up on him non-stop with lie after lie and was so afraid of offending anybody that he didn't answer the lies. Al Gore campaigned using the same style, the DLC style. He to let the Repugs lie about him and didn't answer back. So of the lies they told about Al Gore have become legend now and people believe them. I think it should be clear now that the DLC style doesn't work, we someone who fights back when the Republicans tell lies about them.
I really genuinely thought that Edwards was our man last time. He's so likeable. I'm not certain though how he gets the military/diplomacy credibility. His "Two America's" really resonated with me.
I am not sure, Jacque. But from some recent articles I have read, some people are starting to back away from DLC. Obama demanded his name be taken off, after some one added it. Unfortunetly, a lot of smaller candidates, like municipal, sherrifs, etc are joining.
Were you here during the Primaries before last election, 2 years ago? OMG. There was less than polite debte on candidates that everyone was passionate about, Especially Dean's supporters.
Posted by PamB on November 16, 2005 at 04:29 PM
LOL, I remember that.
Not meaning to offend anyone, but I think I got a bad taste in my mouth about Dean on the basis of his supporters. It seemed like it was some sort of cult following.
Btw, that's exactly the first impression I got of W as well, and it creeped me out big-time in his case.
Posted by PamB on November 16, 2005 at 05:23 PM
I thought I read an article to that effect. Probably posted here.
I hope we all become one big happy Democratic party with diverse members!
Time for accounting class. Enjoy the evening!
Sure Bleu,
Tine is my nickname here at home. I totally admire his military service. It was the first thing about him that caught my attention. It really made me angry when the Swifties smeared him. As if you could be in Vietnam and NOT be in danger. That said, he uses large words that even educated folks have a difficult time understanding. The word transurgience I used earlier was used during one of his speeches. I kid you not. I had to go look it up. Most folks wouldn't have bothered. Granted, that makes them kinda lazy and just a tad shortsighted since we were voting for the LEADER of our country but I calls em' as I see it. :)
Posted by PamB on November 16, 2005 at 05:23 PM
I've said this before, but it seems to me that some Democrats, particularly those with aspirations to higher office, are using DLC membership as sort of a networking tool. I'm not saying that's a wise move, I'm just saying that's what they're doing.
Otherwise, it would seem to me incongrous, for example, that John Kerry, Bill Richardson and Eliot Spitzer, to name just three, are DLC members.
Tine,
My Pretty Bird asked who I was voting on in our Primary & I said Edwards, because of the 2 Americas. She asked which canddiate served in a war...I told her Kerry. He got her vote.
(I was a Clark delegate but he had already pulled out before it got to OH. I wasn't wasting my vote!!!)
Now, I'm gonzo!
William,
It amazed me with Gore, that he never tore into those saying that He Said he invented the Internet. He did not say that, but he never came out screaming at those who were lying !
I think our party is a little too polite at times. There's nothing wrong with saying the other guy is a liar when he is.
Domingo,
Raw story says it was Hadley that was Woodward's source. National Security Advisor = guy who discusses classified information with reporters. What has the GOP done to our country?
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 05:40 PM
Agreed wholeheartedly. The problem is that the Republicans have already figured this out, and their solution is that they keep their candidate above the fray, but let his minions do the dirty work. That way, if Gore or Kerry were to shoot back with "You're a liar!", Bush immediately goes to the victim card. "I never said any of that, why are those meanies picking on me?"
Howdy, ALL
So, things aren't going well for W. Riots everywhere he goes, HIS War is falling apart, he is the Most Hated Person in the World...
What should he do?
Why have 2 WH employees leak more CIA stuff so he can start a war with Cuba, and finally shut up Chavez
(snip)
The newspaper cited two unidentified U.S. government officials as saying the CIA believed Castro had Parkinson's and has warned major American policymakers to be prepared if he grows sick in the coming years.
LINK
Hello all.
I'm a bit confused on the Woodward revelation (and I'm really starting to hate him!). He didn't disclose the leak in his book or in a column. Why does it matter that he got the first leak on Plame? And that doesn't necessarily mean Libby didn't do anything wrong, right? Maybe there were TWO different officials (maybe even more) leaking this stuff because they wanted it spread around to ensure that SOMEBODY put it out there?
And why TF isn't Novak hanging from his toenails in Gitmo?
And WHY do the talking heads KEEP saying Valerie sent Joe to Niger? From all that I've read, it's not true!
Bush immediately goes to the victim card. "I never said any of that, why are those meanies picking on me?"Posted by Terry
No Terry, not with the new law forcing the candidates to say, "This ad approved by George W. Bush" after he just got done saying Kerry was "weak on national defense" or some such lie.
Geez, what an opportunist. Ask not what you can do for the troops, ask how much money the troops can make for you!"
Rush Limbaugh tries to milk the troops
Talk about lowering the bar. Have you seen this "Adopt a Soldier" program Rush has started? You would figure that a program targeted for our troops would actually help them in some small way. Maybe the money would go to some equipment, supplies or anything the troops could actually use over in Iraq that will help them survive. Here's what they get for 49.95:
"Support our men and women in uniform by giving a subscription to Rush 24/7 and the Limbaugh Letter to a member of the US Armed Forces. He or she will receive unfettered access to Rush 24/7 online as well as every big, colorful issue of The Limbaugh Letter "
Rush is charging 49.95 for a solider to receive his radio broadcast and newsletter. Have you ever seen a creepier operation?
Crooks and Liars
Posted by Domingo on November 16, 2005 at 06:06 PM
I get your point, but what I was referring to more was the Swift Boat liars who impugned Kerry's military service. The 527's provide a loophole for them, and they've proven themselves to be quite good at exploiting loopholes.
Posted by RoseZ on November 16, 2005 at 06:00 PM
Of course RoseZ. It's stupid. They're trying to turn this into a "no he didn't leak first, the other guy did, so he's innocent." They were all doing it, so they all need to go to jail.
I think it seems like the whole WH was blabbing. Rove, Libby, Hadley......a regular bunch of Chatty Cathys
I still think I'm missing something in this story, but I'll keep reading until it makes some level of sense to me!
As an aside, and this may bring many much joy, my husband was working at an army base in NY yesterday. He said the soldiers he was working with said they HATE Bush! They said it out LOUD!! I explained to my husband that this is a no-no, and he didn't realize it.
That's all I'm saying about it cuz I don't want those soldiers scooped up and sent to Gitmo!!
Posted by Domingo on November 16, 2005 at 06:10 PM
Limbaugh is a charlatan, plain and simple. I've been saying that for years. Here's one example, slightly less disgusting than the one you posted.
In his first book, The Way Things Oughtta Be, he refers to Ronald Reagan as "my hero" and "the greatest President of my lifetime." I happen to disagree vehemently with him on that, but I'll put that aside for the moment. What would you expect someone who felt that way would do? Donate some money to his campaign, or better yet, donate some time to his campaign? At a minimum, I'd expect him to actually show up and vote for the guy. Limbaugh didn't do that; in fact, he didn't even register to vote until after Reagan was reelected.
Let's hope this latest shenanigan will get the dittoheads (why anyone would wear that appellation as a badge of honor is beyond me) to wake up and smell the coffee. Off the top of my head, I can think of about a bazillion other things the troops need more than a subscription to his online site and newsletter. Then again, these people aren't exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer; if they were, Rush would have been off the air years ago.
Posted by RoseZ on November 16, 2005 at 06:25 PM
Actually, Rose, I could be wrong about this, but I think UCMJ Article 88 applies only to officers, not to the troops.
Posted by Terry on November 16, 2005 at 06:31 PM
Okay, but a girl can dream, can't she? ;-)
Another Slap in bush's Face!!! Those poor, poor rich people not going to get their big tax cuts!
Senate Panel Does Not Extend Tax-Rate Cut
By Jonathan Weisman
The Washington Post
Facing a stalemate over one of President Bush's top economic policy goals, the Senate Finance Committee yesterday gave up efforts to extend deep cuts to the tax rate on dividends and capital gains and approved a $60 billion tax measure largely devoted to hurricane relief and tax cuts with bipartisan appeal.
Analysis: Row over CIA Camps Heats Up in Europe
By Gareth Harding
United Press International
Brussels - Just when the United States thought the transatlantic row over possible Central Intelligence Agency terrorist detention camps in Europe had blown over, the European Parliament followed the Council of Europe's decision to launch an investigation into the allegations by holding a rowdy debate on the issue Monday.
Fresh allegations are putting more pressure on the Pentagon - and EU governments - to come clean about the affair. The New York Times reported Monday that Spanish police have opened a criminal investigation into reports that Majorca was used as a stopover for CIA planes transporting terrorist suspects to internment camps. And according to Swedish news agency TT, at least two airplanes hired by the agency have landed at Swedish airports.
Members of the European Parliament have been itching for a debate on the issue ever since the allegations were first made. On Monday, they got their chance at a meeting of the EU assembly in Strasbourg, France. As expected, they ripped into the US administration's handling of the war on terror and lambasted the European Commission for failing to investigate the matter.
EMAIL FROM PELOSSI:
The talent, intellect and entrepreneurial spirit of the American people have made this nation the world leader in business, technology and academics. But America is being seriously challenged. Other countries are investing in their industries, strengthening their economies and trying to catch up with us.
That is why House Democrats have put together the Innovation Agenda to keep our workforce the most skilled and educated in the world. Democrats believe that together, America can do better. Over the past several months, we've sought out the best possible thinking on how to secure America's place as the world leader in innovation. We went outside of Washington, and met with leaders and CEOs from many fields: academia, venture capital, and entrepreneurs from the high-tech, biotech, and telecommunications sectors who are creating the jobs of tomorrow. Together with business, industry and academic leaders, House Democrats have identified the priorities that will guarantee our national security and prosperity, expand markets for American products and keep American workers on top.
House Democrats are proud to present a bold INNOVATION AGENDA: A COMMITMENT TO COMPETITIVENESS TO KEEP AMERICA #1 to:
Create an educated, skilled workforce in the vital areas of science, math, engineering, and information technology;
Invest in a sustained federal research and development initiative that promotes public-private partnerships;
Guarantee affordable access to broadband technology for all Americans;
Achieve energy independence in 10 years by developing emerging technologies for clean and sustainable alternatives that will strengthen national security and protect the environment; and,
Provide small businesses with the tools to encourage entrepreneurial innovation and job creation.
The Innovation Agenda will ensure that our children and grandchildren continue the American tradition of leading the world in economic growth, top-of-the-line education and cutting edge technology. With the Innovation Agenda, responsible budget policies and priorities that work for all Americans, our nation will be stronger.
Soooo
How long before Woodward "retires" ?
Even Lardball is grilling the WaPo Exec. Editor on it.
Good afternoon, all.
Stephen Hadley was out promoting his voodoo logic today --- saying that wasn't it great that we found out about those Iraqi prisoners being held secretly in an Iraqi Ministry building torture chamber.
First, it sounds way to familiar to what we are doing in those black holes in Europe.
Second, while Hadley called the report troubling, he acted like it wasn't so bad because they were caught. How many others aren't being caught? Isn't Rumsfeld overseeing the security situation till the Iraqis can do it themselves?
Third, should this be happening at all if things are going so well with this new Middle Eastern democracy? Isn't this interim government suppose to be ushering a new era of freedom and justice for all factions in Iraq?
It's just more of the same old Republican excuses and twisted logic. We've just replaced one bad situation with Saddam with another of our own...and we are stuck over there till enough of our representatives in Congress determine it's a political liability for them.
It's time for all our Democratic Senators to insist that we withdrawal. Nothing good is going to come of this exercise in futility. We've lost too many lives and limbs and spent way to much of our treasury on Bush's Folly.
Even Israel understands that US occupation of Iraq is only making matters worse in the Middle East !!!!
Israel wants US to pull out from Iraq
http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=164415&cat=India
Posted by PamB on November 16, 2005 at 07:01 PM
It appears the Congressional Republicans are fast becoming Democrats Lite. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at their focus groups. They are turning on their leader which always spells trouble for the the organization as a whole.
Downie ( the WaPo Exec. Editor ) said that Woodward was warned about stating his personal opinion on those Sunday "talking Head" (my term) shows, and that "we told him to do better in the future"
WHY ISN'T WOODWARD FIRED TODAY?
Cooper's attorney just implicated Rove in the leak. Smart wording of the Q on Lardball's part.
Hello all,
I'll be checking in for the next hour and a half as I tutor. My tutee didn't do his homework so I am giving him some timed SAT stuff. Speaking of SAT stuff, guess what I found out? I'm writing a book on the new SAT essay section so that is why this sounds a bit bookish:
a. But let’s dig a little deeper: In the article, “The ‘New’ SAT and the Movement Toward a National Curriculum,” author Charles R. Lewis connects the dots between the new SAT and the ‘so-out-of-touch-with reality-that-it-is-being-sued-by-several-states” No Child Left Behind program. “More troubling still is the essay component, especially in light of rhetoric about forcing schools to adopt a national curriculum and making the exam an instrument for social change. That the project’s mastermind is a politician is scarcely a comfort. That politician, Gaston Caperton II, former governor of West Virginia and now president of the SAT’s College Board, has long been closely associated with ex-Education Secretary, Richard Riley. Riley oversaw the Goals 2000 program, which, in 2001, morphed into the No Child Left Behind Act.” In view of this information, the test now seems to have little to do with the best interest of the student and more to do with setting a national political agenda. More on that in section five.
Man, is there any place these repugnicans don't touch. Riley now working for the College Board...My recommendation? Tell your kids to take the ACT.
Hello all,
I'll be checking in for the next hour and a half as I tutor. My tutee didn't do his homework so I am giving him some timed SAT stuff. Speaking of SAT stuff, guess what I found out? I'm writing a book on the new SAT essay section so that is why this sounds a bit bookish:
a. But let’s dig a little deeper: In the article, “The ‘New’ SAT and the Movement Toward a National Curriculum,” author Charles R. Lewis connects the dots between the new SAT and the ‘so-out-of-touch-with reality-that-it-is-being-sued-by-several-states” No Child Left Behind program. “More troubling still is the essay component, especially in light of rhetoric about forcing schools to adopt a national curriculum and making the exam an instrument for social change. That the project’s mastermind is a politician is scarcely a comfort. That politician, Gaston Caperton II, former governor of West Virginia and now president of the SAT’s College Board, has long been closely associated with ex-Education Secretary, Richard Riley. Riley oversaw the Goals 2000 program, which, in 2001, morphed into the No Child Left Behind Act.” In view of this information, the test now seems to have little to do with the best interest of the student and more to do with setting a national political agenda. More on that in section five.
Man, is there any place these repugnicans don't touch. Riley now working for the College Board...My recommendation? Tell your kids to take the ACT.
Terry,
UCMJ isn't just for officers. That said, as soldiers you are entitled to an opinion but you have to be careful about how you voice it.
It seems that a standardized national test for collage is a fair way to compare one student to another and an essay component shows vocabulary as well as style and grammer.
And a "collage" is something done in Art class
and "grammer" is an old lady.
Good luck on that Essay test, when does vailone show up?
Chris,
Tell my kids to take the ACT, but aren't they required to take the SAT's for college entrance. My daughter even took the SSAT, for High School.
Yes, Sir, this is all a busy at the cost of our children. I still say "Raise a child, not a Test Score"
If there are not standardized tests how are schools to judge students for admissions?
DPD,
Is it just me or are these Beltway "journalists" way to close to their sources? Woodward has been embedded with the WHIGS from day one. How many books has he written about Bush and the White House? I think he relates to his sources more than he does to the readers of the Washington Post.
When journalists are looking ahead to their next book deal instead of reporting the news, are they still journalists? Is the so-called source/journalist privilege really in effect under these circumstances?
I have the feeling Fizgerald is beginning to ask the same question....especially in a felony case where a CIA agent/agency was outted.
Any way you look at it, the rest of the country outside the Beltway doesn't appreciate how they are all evading telling the the truth....there's a war going on and these guys behave like it's just politics. We are suppose to be fighting a war on terror....or was that just a copy point? Where is the effort to get Bin Lauden in Iraq? In giving up our Middle Eastern WMD investigation agency?
Time for the Post and Times to clean house of all these prima donnas. The 24/7 prima donnas are cutting their own throats...slowly but surely discrediting their credibility. Russert has been exposed as nothing more than a White House whore. NBC is in denial.
I'm back. There are a whole slew of websites that will explain why the new SAT is an unfair and biased test. My book is about how to ace the essay section in particular.
Peppermint, when I first started into college counseling and standardized test prep, I thought only Western schools take the ACT. Wrongo. Every college from North to South, East and West now takes the ACT.
Your daughter must go to a private school because she took the SSAT.
I also agree, raise a child, not a test score, but you wouldn't believe how nervous the parents at the prep school I teach get. I have some wanting me to begin preparing their sons and daughters in the 8th grade!
For those who think that the Framing issue is overplayed, and of no significance, here is a document straight out of the Republican's handbook, on how to Frame the War on Terror. i.e. use of 9/11, to use term Prevention rather than preemption, etc.
Interesting article, and interesting site.
Is there such a thing as a Humble Republican?
Where are they?
Confessions of a Repentant Republican
Lizzy, it's an East Coast/West Coast thing. Most east of Mississippi require the SAT...those west require the ACT.
Aspen,
Agreed the standardized test is one measure of a student's aptitude, though it should be far below a student's academic and community service performance, especially with all of holes that standardized testing offers. A few years ago our school had portfolios similar to those that art students use when enrolling into art school. It was a lot of work, but man was it effective in measuring a student's abilities! The essay's original intent may have been a good one, but any rich kid with an expensive tutor can earn a perfect score on it...and there is one of the rubs.
Claim: Vice-President Al Gore claimed that he "invented" the Internet.
Status: False.
http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp
Will,
If you are lurking, hopefully this will help you.
Washington - Eight advocacy groups asked a federal judge on Monday to ensure that no elderly or disabled Americans lose access to their prescription drugs as they enroll in the new Medicare drug plan.
Well, this helps explain WHY Bush was trying to get his hands on Iraqi Oil! Seems Kuwait is running out.
Kuwait Oil Field, World's Second-Largest, 'Exhausted'
By James Cordahi and Andy Critchlow
Bloomberg
Hump-a-rump
The guy who is known as the "Father of the Internet" even echoes Gore's statement by acknowleging that if it wasn't for Gore the Governmental regulations wouldn't have been in place. Gore was at least 5 to 10 years ahead of whatever ANYONE could have imagined, but he put in place the legislation to get the ball rolling.
A line from 1 interview ignores the FACT that Gore actually did enable an obscure computer hook up between Universities, and later Government departments, to become a commercially viable entity.
Bush said there was a connection to 9-11 and Iraq.
Cheney said 'mushrom clouds", as did Auntie Tom, and Powie the lap dog.
Rummy said "I KNOW where the WMD are, they're North, South, East and West...
Gonna want to deal with FACTS, or Pube LIES and exagerrations?
Oh, that's right. Kool Ade drinkers only deal with KY as W and his merry band of Nazis and War Criminals F*** the Country, and YOU say "Ahhhh, That feels SOOOOOOOOOo good"
IDIOT.
DPD,
He does not want the Truth. You see, he is still defending the Republican Lie.
And then he tries to post something about SATs, so maybe, just maybe, somebody will talk to him!
Pitiful !!
The World is saying Enough is Enough, to George Bush too!!!!!
Madrid opens inquiry into CIA 'torture' flights
If the allegations proved true, Mr Alonso warned, "we would be looking at extremely serious, absolutely intolerable acts that violate rules for treating prisoners in a democratic society, and would demand a government response that would affect bilateral relations". The disputedeals a further blow to US-Spanish relations, already bruised by Spain's withdrawal of troops from Iraq last year.
PamB
Jinx, I owe ya a Long Island.
I was doing my answer from memory, you just linked to the source!
Amazing thing, "these Innerrnezz"
Good thing Al invented them (all of them, right W?)
You are so dumb, you can't even tell a joke from the truth!!!!! LMAO, you are unbelievably stupid! What are you, 12 ???
Posted by JHumphry on November 16, 2005 at 08:28 PM
NO, Smegma brain, you supplied THE QUOTE and mischaracterized it and YOU took it out of context.
What flavor are you drinking today? Urine?
After all, it's the same color as the stripe down the backs of all the ChickenHawks.
DPD,
Yeah, good thing we have Democrats around, to invent things like Internet!!!!! The Republicans only invent War :))
speaking of truth, you know who has a hard time with the truth? Vice Pres. Cheney...
Do you remember the one where...
1. Cheney Claimed Iraq Was Providing WMD Training To Al-Qaeda Months After Source Recanted
or the one where...
2. Cheney claimed Saddam was harboring Al Qaeda? He wasn't.
or the one where...
3. Cheney claimed Saddam gave Al Qaeda bomb-making expertise and trained Al Qaeda terrorists how to use chemical and biological weapons? Saddam didn't.
or the one where...
4. On Sept 14, 2003 Cheney claimed, for the second time at least, that there was evidence suggesting Mohammad Atta visited the Iraqi embassy in the Czech Republic? He didn't, and Cheney knew the supposed evidence had already been debunked, yet repeated the charge on Tim Russert's show as a justification for the war.
With respect to 9/11, of course, we’ve had the story that’s been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohamed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack
or the one where...
5. Cheney said during the VP debates last October that he NEVER had publicly connected Iraq and 9/11. Of course, he did on Meet the Press a year before:
Cheney: "If we're successful in Iraq, if we can stand up a good representative government in Iraq, that secures the region so that it never again becomes a threat to its neighbors or to the United States, so it's not pursuing weapons of mass destruction, so that it's not a safe haven for terrorists, now we will have struck a major blow right at the heart of the base, if you will, the geographic base of the terrorists who have had us under assault now for many years, but most especially on 9/11."
or the one where...
6.Cheney denied linking Atta to the Iraqis, when he did:
June 17, 2004. Vice President Cheney talking to CNBC's Gloria Borger:
Borger: 'Well, let's go to Mohamed Atta for a minute, because you mentioned him as well. You have said in the past that it was, quote, 'pretty well confirmed.' '
Cheney: 'No, I never said that.'
Borger: 'Okay.'
Cheney: 'Never said that.'
Borger: 'I think that is . . . '
Cheney: 'Absolutely not. What I said was the Czech intelligence service reported after 9/11 that Atta had been in Prague on April 9th of 2001, where he allegedly met with an Iraqi intelligence official. We have never been able to confirm that nor have we been able to knock it down.'
On Dec. 9, 2001. Cheney talking to NBC's Tim Russert (this is perhaps the first time he made this lie):
Cheney: 'Well, what we now have that's developed since you and I last talked, Tim, of course, was that report that -- it's been pretty well confirmed that he did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April, several months before the attack. Now, what the purpose of that was, what transpired between them, we simply don't know at this point, but that's clearly an avenue that we want to pursue.
Not only is Dick "Fuck yourself" Cheney a big old liar, but so are his friends...as a matter of fact they lied to Congress, just last week...
Document: Big oil met with Cheney task force
Industry officials denied meetings as recently as last week
A White House document shows that executives from big oil companies met with Vice President Cheney's energy task force in 2001 -- something long suspected by environmentalists but denied as recently as last week by industry officials testifying before Congress.
The document, obtained this week by The Washington Post, shows that officials from Exxon Mobil Corp., Conoco (before its merger with Phillips), Shell Oil Co. and BP America Inc. met in the White House complex with the Cheney aides who were developing a national energy policy, parts of which became law and parts of which are still being debated.
In a joint hearing last week of the Senate Energy and Commerce committees, the chief executives of Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp. and ConocoPhillips said their firms did not participate in the 2001 task force. The president of Shell Oil said his company did not participate "to my knowledge," and the chief of BP America Inc. said he did not know.
Hey, Cheney NEVER met Edwards either.
(Except there are 3 times when photos were taken).
And THOSE are on film. Who knows how many OTHER times it happened?
The document, obtained this week by The Washington Post, shows that officials from Exxon Mobil Corp., Conoco (before its merger with Phillips), Shell Oil Co. and BP America Inc. met in the White House complex with the Cheney aides who were developing a national energy policy, parts of which became law and parts of which are still being debated.
Hey {{{marsh}}}
Some energy policy, huh? What was it Exxon/Mobil made last quarter/3 months in profits?? $100,000,000,000 !!! What a friend they have in Cheney!
Posted by BlueinIdaho on November 16, 2005 at 02:54 PM
I didn't place the label on him, btw. I got the "moderate democrat" directly from his pdf file.
I hate labels as well. But just because I hate it doesn't mean people will stop doing it. If I must slot myself I will gladly go Liberal Democrat and stop there. Although most often I am Progressive as well just not as a fanatic save the trees type. I'm too old and just NOT that much of a joiner! LOL
And then the big, fat, freakin', lying', fact manipulatin', chickenhawk goes on the attack...
Cheney Joins GOP Criticism of Democrats
WASHINGTON - Vice President
Dick Cheney added his voice on Wednesday to the chorus of Republican criticism of Democrats who have accused the Bush administration of manipulating intelligence on
Iraq, calling it "one of the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired in this city."
"Some of the most irresponsible comments have, of course, come from politicians who actually voted in favor of authorizing force against
Saddam Hussein," Cheney told the Frontiers of Freedom Institute, a conservative policy group.
Cheney's attack was part of a GOP effort to push back against criticism on Iraq.
President Bush has made two speeches in recent days that painted Democrats as hypocrites for criticizing the Iraq war after earlier supporting the idea that Saddam should go. On Tuesday, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld joined the offensive, singling out Democrats who in the past had depicted Saddam as a threat with weapons of mass destruction, including former
President Clinton and former Secretary of State
Madeleine Albright.
Jhumphrey,
Did you bother to read the links about Fox News I supplied or Drudge? Are you ready to provide a link that supports your contention that truthout has ever misinformed or lied about its readers?(For the record I know you can't.) If you want to engage in conversation, I'm game.
Shit, 5 years and they STILL blame Clinton for a war THEY started in 2003.
D'Ya think Cheney and W can blame Clinton for their collective 5 DUI's?
Clinton's will be the longest Presidency that spans over four terms because GW didn't realize that becoming President meant you have to be the leader and take responsibility for the country during your term in office. Clinton is responsible for the economy, he's responsible for the war......I'm surprised they haven't tried to pin Valerie Plame on the guy. LOL
Looks like another failed Trip for Bush!!!!!
Such politicking does nothing to help Bush boost American influence in Asia at a time when China is successfully growing in economic and diplomatic might. Bush’s aides had hoped this Asia tour would be a chance to reconnect with a region on its own terms—trade, bird flu, and pan-Asian institutions. The president may yet make progress on all those issues as his weeklong travels continue. But the Senate’s vote is an unwelcome reminder that he can’t easily re-establish his influence overseas when his influence back home is in question.
*waving at Marsh*
Nice Post on dick cheney! and here is one on Mr. Run-Amok
The two things they don't give Clinton credit for are the budget surplus and the million plus jobs he created.
I USED to feel sorry for the Chimp. He wasobviously set up as a meat puppet, and Cheney and all Poppie's boys would run the show, and all Chimpy would have to do is read a tele-Prompter once a year.
THAT feeling of sorrow went away as soon as the little spoiled brat was handed something, and he thought he EARNED it.
Gitmo or firing squad. For ALL of them.
NOTHING will repair the damage they have done to America in the eyes of the World other than those 2 options.
I'm surprised they haven't tried to pin Valerie Plame on the guy. LOL
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 08:58 PM
Don't give them any ideas, Christine ! :))
Fuzzy Math comes back to Haunt them!!!!
Fuzzy Math Fallout
Washington's cut-taxes-and-borrow crew are stalled in their quest for more tax reductions. Have years of using phony budget numbers finally caught up with them?
Pam,
Funny thing is I can see Larry, Moe and Curly (Bush, Rove and Cheney) trying to pull this. Of course they'll do with the same inept charm they've managed to do everything else with ;).
Let's play a game. Which word do you feel sums up the Bush administration. Jhumphrey feel free to chime in we like to be "fair and balanced". Hee Hee
My one word is incompetent.
Posted by DPD on November 16, 2005 at 09:03 PM
Their are too many of them that are AS culpable AS W ... DPD they will NEVER throw the whole lot in prison. The LEAST I expect is for Impeachment after we take back the HOUSE in 06.
bush = lack human decency
*Sorry Dawnelle, did not see you there...waving*
DPD
Tsk tsk
more than one word.
Tell us how you really feel about this administration :)
HEY MARSHIE - fyi my Brother Tonito informed me the other day he is NOW back online from his homefront! I'm surprised he's not here actually.
Good news - if I could ever CATCH him! ;-)
Pam B
That's a good one considering the number of folks under arrest and indicted with an R after their name.
Lizzy
One word only......make it a good one ;)
Marsh,
good one
Jhumphrey,
We're stickin with one word cuz we know how YOUR party loves sound bites. They aren't good for much else. Can't plan a war, can't balance a budget, can't come up with ideas without whining for the Dems to "help".......
Either 'Corpse" or "Lifer" would be good as far as I'm concerned.
Treason = firing squad.
Right?
Just "caca'?Posted by DPD on November 16, 2005 at 09:20 PM
LOL
Hi Dawnie,
For some reason the trolls never wanna play with me. :>
can't come up with ideas without whining for the Dems to "help".......
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 09:22 PM
How about their stealing our idea on Iraq withdrawl they're taking credit for?????
Yep Lizzy
Disaster should be a word he uses in our State of the Union.
don't know why anyone would want to play with a smelly old troll anyway;)
Christine
As long as they banned the woman hater named budd..... that one was such a bottom dweller. Reminded me of that hateful post Terry posted earlier from some fanatic neo con.
Hateful stuff filled with vile ways of getting even with democrats.
I know we despise PUGS and say it regularly but I refuse to sink to their level of evil. Those kind need to just be shot and put out of their misery. What else good are they doing the planet? Total evil can't be contained in a cell. Which is why I do agree with SOME death penalty renderings.
I know each case is individual for sure.
Posted by marsh on November 16, 2005 at 09:31 PM
I don't care for those kinds of reindeer games!! lol
Pam B,
Are you surprised? Their last big idea seemed to be "cut taxes". Now they gotta figure out how to explain to their constituents why our infrastructure got a "D", our schools are still having problems, why millions more are living in poverty, why millions have no health care and why we are in a country that posed little to no threat to us and is costing us billions. It'd be humorous if I didn't actually have to live in this country.
Hi, {[Dawn}}, and {{ALL}}
Sorry, the phone won't stop ringing. There's a Homeowners Assn. meeting this Sunday and all the PRICKS are complaining about shit they ALL had a year to address, but didn't. Pie lady is going nuts. The Pricks call ME, then they call HER, then SHE calls ME, then the Pres calls Me then she calls Pie Lady, and here comes ANOTHER round of calls.
I plan on saying I have the Bear Flu, and watching the game at home while they go through their verbal masturbation.
Screw those whiny babies.
Screw those whiny babies.
Posted by DPD on November 16, 2005 at 09:34 PM
OMG for a minute I thought you meant the White House gang of whiney babies? unplug your phone!
Dawn,
I say let them stay. Let everyone who comes here see their vile behavior. Let them see us as an alternative. Look at folks like AmericaFirst who came here as a conservative and now is even finding a middle ground with folks like us and calling folks like "Terry" what they are; nutjobs
Christine in a world where they are flocking to this website I'd say ok but this is a relatively small group here and I say the VILE ones should be kicked the hell to the moon for irritating the reliable regulars who actually have something to share and not insult or fight!
jmo
ooopps not Terry, I mean Budd. Terry is nice.
Sorry Terry. Don't mean to drag your name through the mud. :(
DPD,
I think we've reformed a few on this site. I love a challenge :)
I guess maybe if he had called you and slut and a bitch among other things maybe the feeling would be different as well.
Or not, don't know how you like being called names? I'm not fond of it (for long).
I say let them stay. Let everyone who comes here see their vile behavior. Let them see us as an alternative. Look at folks like AmericaFirst who came here as a conservative and now is even finding a middle ground with folks like us and calling folks like "Terry" what they are; nutjobsPosted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 09:38 PM
Christine, It is too distracting to our purpose to have a bunch of vile, vicious posts here. Think of people who come in to check us out, seeing that kind of trash on here, and they click right back out. Most people don't want to be around that kind of stuff.
I only wish they were zapped as quickly as RNC zaps theirs.
Dawn,
I'd just do what I do with the others that come here looking to slander.
If he called me a bitch....I'd laugh and mock him for thinking a dog could type on the computer.
If he called me a slut I'd call him a repressed Republican perv that likes animals (which might explain his fixation with calling me a bitch.
Laughter is indeed the best medicine. When they insult it is because they are attempting to overcompensate.(you can fill in why they need to overcompensate).
You know, I never had a problem understanding what Kerry was saying. Then again, both he and I are attorneys, and I'm well aware that at times we speak our own language.
Posted by Terry on November 16, 2005 at 05:06 PM
btw, Terry, I was talking about style, not words.
Pam,
I use them as practice for "turning the debate."
Most of them leave once they realize they can't bother you or they can't refute facts. Trolls, above all, hate facts.
{{{Dawn}}}
A man that would attack a woman isn't much of a man. JMO
Posted by CAwaltz on November 16, 2005 at 09:46 PM
I gave back as good (or better) than I got but it's what happens AFTER that I always hate.
Long blog silence then the defenders post and by the time it's over the good conversation is gone with it. People feel like being ill or turn off the screen for the soap drama chit.
jmo. They used to fight like that at Talk City sometimes......... another reason I left there. Some of the people there were very attached to causing dramas.
Long blog silence then the defenders post and by the time it's over the good conversation is gone with it. People feel like being ill or turn off the screen for the soap drama chit.
This is what I meant, too. The exchange with trolls, takes away from what the blog should be for. Conversation between Democrats, on issues.
I Hate Ignorance. I find I am sucked in by ignorance. Then I am sorry afterwards, that I wasted my breath on such sorry pieces of work.
Well I gotta hit the hay. Nite guys
extra hugs for Pam and dawnie for tolerating me :)
Hey Will S if you are out there?
I'm trying to load up Stephanie Miller from today but it seems we now have to pay to listen to old shows? Can you still get them? If so do you have that link again? I've lost all my good links now that I'm on a different computer! Thanks!
Anybody home?
Goodnight, {{{Pam}}}
I'll read up--just got home and know nothing of the day's news. Enlighten me, if you will.
{{{Dawn}}}
hmmm, looks like troll droppings, above...i've been ducking...
how you be?
{{{dpd}}}
hi, and may i choose the word you used earlier for my one word for this cabal of criminals...smegma..
that's a lovely word for them...
Getting ready to ride and find something to watch on the tube while I ride. BB after . Good to see ya.
Hi {{fade}}, I took Dawns idea, and set the phone for "Voice Mail"
G'Nite, {{DAWN}}
A loverly 21 Degrees here. Hows the Metro?
Not quite that bad, yet...but should get down to 16ish later tonight.
loverly...i have to be in springfield by eight, which means i leave here at six...it should be brisk about then...
i love coffee...it's hot
did you shut off your phone?
Just "Voice Mail" now. Let the High Drama work itself out on tape, or whatever they use now.
I get emails from the Family Research Council, just to remind myself why I devote so much of my life to this political stuff...
Even before this, Nan Aron had vowed that she and her very liberal Alliance for Justice would do anything to stop Judge Alito's confirmation: "You name it; we'll do it." They have many reasons to fight Alito "to the last ditch." They want to stop him from being confirmed, surely. But even if they fail at that, they want a fight so brutal and bruising that President Bush will not dare to nominate another judicial conservative. I want to encourage you not to take the outcome of this intense battle for the court for granted.
he makes us sound like bullies...
Posted by DPD on November 16, 2005 at 10:22 PM
Back. We have the A/C on here tonight. LOL
dpd,
did you see Rahm Emmanuel on whatever talk show this past sunday...maybe george stephanopoulis?
Hey Everyone,
Sorry about the length, I just wanted to complain...
I can't believe Cheney's comments tonight. He said anyone who questioned whether or not the administration was forthcoming and balanced in making its case for war in Iraq was unpatriotic. He said that because some democrats voted to authorize the use force (if Bush determined force was necessary), decmocrats had no grounds to criticize Bush.
Vice President Cheney is wrong for several reasons:
1) In making his case for war with Iraq, Bush suggested it was certain there were WMD's in Iraq. He called anyone who opposed going to war with Iraq an "appeaser" and likened them with European Countries who appeased Hitler before WW2. Bush was incredibly popular at that time and when he spoke, people listened. Bush's conduct produced a misleading, one-sided debate. When weapons inspectors were finding NO WMD in Iraq, rather than re-examining his position, he insisted Saddam was deceiving us. He had Powell go to the UN and talk of portable weapons labs. When some democrats suggested we should wait and let the weapons inspectors do their work, he dismissed this suggestion saying it would be impossible for the inspectors to do a satisfactory job. So while it is true that some democrats thought Iraq had WMD's, it is also true that the Bush Administration aggressively sold the case for war with Iraq and drown- out/attacked dissenting voices. Bush and Cheney sold the case for the Iraq invasion, Democrats did not. Bush was very one-sided in asserting Iraq had WMD's even when weapons inspectors were finding no weapons of mass destruction. In his State of the Union, Bush claimed Iraq tried to purchase uranium from Nigeria even though this story had largely been discredited. The net impact of Bush's rhetoric: talking about the Uranium story, calling dissenters 'appeasers,' and saying weapons inspectors could never do an adequate job, was a lop-sided case for invading Iraq. Bush and Cheney created this picture and to the extent the Iraq war was a bad idea, Bush and Cheney should take the political heat.
2) Wile Democrats authorized Bush to use force if, in his discretion as Commander in Chief, he thought force was absolutely necessary, the Bush Administration made the decision and invaded Iraq.
3)Bush had access to intelligence which Senators did not.
4) Democrats, both those who authorized Bush to use force if he thought force was necessary, and those who voted against such authorization, want a stable Iraq. No one in the Democratic Party wants to pull out of Iraq and leave it as a lawless terrorist hot-bed. However, Democrats want Bush to put together a clear victory strategy with dates to serve as benchmarks and goals. Democrats are not asking for absolute dates.
Tim,
You're messing with us...all these open threads! We human creatures have a somewhat difficult reaction to change. I like it, it just takes a while to get in the groov.
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I'm posting here until a Thurs. thread is announced.
K Street rallies, grumbles about House Dems
Following electoral triumphs this fall, House Democratic leaders are meeting with Democratic lobbyists today in a bid to translate the party’s widespread enthusiasm into cash to fill campaign coffers.
Yet the meeting, one of a number of its kind, comes as some lobbyists are grumbling that they have not been enjoying the same access to House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) as they have in the past.
there is a picture of dick ( 19%) cheney over at the bbc site that is creepy. was this man born of a womb or did he come to earth in a metallic pod?
so yesterdays news was that 5 of 6 oil executives lied to the senate last week, the schmuck from alaska-stevens-refused to swear them in and they will be dragged back to the senate.
bush is in asia talking shit. asians are giggling.
cheney is taking up the cause of the american soldiers in the same way he did during vietnam...by ignoring their needs for armor and to get back to their families and making political hay off their sorry asses.
alito filibuster is looking alot more likely, the republicans can't pass their own draconian budget and the leak investigation will now go down some new roads.
carnage continues in iraq and the new democratic government has already got their torture chambers up and running.
all in all a great day for the administration. a few more of these great days and we should be able to take back at least one house of congress.
slip slidin away...
President Bush's positive job rating continues to fall, touching another new low for his presidency, the latest Harris Interactive poll finds.
Bush's current job approval rating stands at 34%, compared with a positive rating of 88% soon after 9/11, 50% at this time last year, and 40% in August.
and down the page we have:
Mr. Bush's current ratings don't compare favorably with those of three of the last four two-term presidents at a comparable time in their fifth year in office. In November or October of their fifth year, Presidents Johnson (67%), Reagan (66%) and Clinton (58%) all enjoyed the support of majorities, while President Nixon (29%) was less popular than Mr. Bush is now.
so bush is now in competition with nixon just before nixon's resignation. ha,ha.
this piece from salon seemed worth sharing:
Cheney's politics of fear and smear
It's the way they've always done battle against their political enemies: First Bush preps the field, then Cheney is deployed to deliver the full payload. Following Bush's attack on Veterans' Day against critics of his war policies, the administration opened even heavier fire Wednesday. The vice president declared that the latest accusations that the White House manipulated intelligence to launch the war are among "the most dishonest and reprehensible charges ever aired" in Washington. He blasted Democrats as "opportunists" who are peddling "cynical and pernicious falsehoods" for political gain while U.S. soldiers fight and die in Iraq.
The terrible irony of Cheney's words may be lost on the remaining few who believe the war is going well. Sen. John Kerry is not one of them. He fired back forcefully late Wednesday:
"It is hard to name a government official with less credibility on Iraq than Vice President Cheney," Kerry said in a statement. "The Vice President continues to mislead America about how we got into Iraq and what must be done to complete the still unaccomplished mission.
"My commitment to our country has been steadfast from the day I signed up to serve in the Navy through my service as a United States Senator fighting for our troops and our national security. Too often when it's been time to tell the truth to the American people, Vice President Cheney has had other priorities.
"While the Vice President engages in the politics of fear and smear, Americans want their government to honor the memory of the more than 2,000 brave Americans lost in Iraq, and they have not forgotten that Osama bin Laden remains on the loose. If the Bush White House cared as much about our troops as they do about their plummeting political fortunes, they would at last offer a clear strategy for success in Iraq and work to bring home 20,000 troops after the successful Iraqi elections. Then, and only then, would they be even beginning to offer leadership equal to our soldiers' sacrifice."
-- Mark Follman
I printed off and hung in my window the flyer that states: "20,000 troops home by the holidays" "A plan for a stable Iraq" that was in my e-alerts from Kerry's camp.
Good morning, all.
So the President is now talking about irresponsibility. Good, maybe he's ready to start acting responsibily and fire all those involved in his many bad foreign policy decisions...starting with those in the WHIG group who put our troops in danger for NOTHING.
And Cheney is now talking about dishonest and reprehensible behavior. Maybe those ethics classes are working? When can we expect him to resign?
Let them keep attacking. The more they do, the more attention voters HAVE to take of the mess they've made of everything. When they attack us, they are attacking ALL those who question them...about 65% of potential voters.
Incompetence reigns in this White House.
Good grief, I've been on the wrong thread. I wondered where everyone was!
President Bush excels at creating fiction
Marianne Means: The trouble is on the subject of Iraq we know the biggest liar occupies the White House.
Good Morning Everyone, I can now confirm that VP Cheney does in fact scare small children. As I was reading the news this morning This Cartoon came up and my 2 year old let out a yelp, pointed at the VP's face and said 'bad guy'. I've always believed that children and animals are the best judge of character, and according to my son Cheney is more scary than Darth Vader.
Texas town adopts corporate name
In a deal unanimously approved Tuesday by the two-member town council, Clark agreed to become DISH permanently, effective immediately. It's part of an advertising campaign for Englewood, Colo.-based EchoStar Communications Corp., which operates the DISH Network satellite TV system.
I'm thinking that they might need a larger town council.
Good Morning Dems! (for the most part, it seems!) ;)
I have something a bit OT, but need to share even if it's not "political" per se. Maybe someone out there will care and pass it along.
Gay Man In Coma After Hammer Attack
A 52 year old Alabama man is clinging to life in a Jackson hospital after what police call a homophobic attack.
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A 26 year old man is charged with attempted murder in the beating Billy Sanford.
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Sanford is in a coma. Police said that his doctors have given him little chance for survival. Even if he does survive and regain consciousness his is likely to have permanent brain damage and would be unlikely to testify at Kelley's trial.
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Police said that they would have liked to have charged Kelley with a hate crime, but gays are not covered under the state's hate crime law.
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The attack on Sanford is at least the second alleged anti-gay crime in Montgomery in the past 16 months.
Prior to these attacks Scotty Joe Weaver,18 (July 22, 2004) and Billy Jack Gaither, 39 (Feb. 19, 1999) were two gay men also killed in Alabama.
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