I didn't used to like a timetable. But John Murtha convinced me that we needed one when he pointed out that, whenever the Iraqis have a timetable, they act quickly out of necessity. This open-ended approach just isn't working.

I know, after talking to a family friend's son, that these guys ALL want to get out of there ASAP, but don't want to be taken as un-macho or cowardly by their comrades or officers, so don't come right out and say it !

Who could POSSIBLY be over there in the midst of all of this, and see that the enemy is the IRAQI people themselves wanting them out of there! That Iraqis are willing to blow themselves up, if they can take out a few Americans with them!

See that the oil fields are blown up daily, so no oil will ever pay for reconstruction. That the power is on for a couple hours per day. That nothing has changed in the years we have been there! That they are furnished with millions of dollars worth of cigarettes and candy to try and bribe the Iraqis to like the US.

Get our kids home NOW! Impeach Bush and Cheney and gain back some respect in the world!

The wide-ranging poll also shows that 58% of those serving in country say the U.S. mission in Iraq is clear in their minds, while 42% said it is either somewhat or very unclear to them, that they have no understanding of it at all, or are unsure. While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq."

http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Poll_72_percent_of_troops_want_0228.html

The Big Lie dies hard....Saddam and 9/11. Having to serve in Iraq when they know it isn't working, I suppose you have to hold on to something even if it's a lie to get by everyday.

But the troops obviously see the reality-based truth for themselves in Iraq. Having to deal with it every day, those 72% have seen enough of this losing cause.

The wide-ranging poll also shows that 58% of those serving in country say the U.S. mission in Iraq is clear in their minds, while 42% said it is either somewhat or very unclear to them, that they have no understanding of it at all, or are unsure. While 85% said the U.S. mission is mainly “to retaliate for Saddam’s role in the 9-11 attacks,” 77% said they also believe the main or a major reason for the war was “to stop Saddam from protecting al Qaeda in Iraq."

http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Poll_72_percent_of_troops_want_0228.html

The Big Lie dies hard....Saddam and 9/11. Having to serve in Iraq when they know it isn't working, I suppose you have to hold on to something even if it's a lie to get by everyday.

But the troops obviously see the reality-based truth for themselves in Iraq. Having to deal with it every day, those 72% have seen enough of this losing cause.

(ps, just watch Oklahoma Senator, Inhope, saying that he would like to see more investigations into the allegations of WMDS being moved into Syria! These guys just don't give up do they? I hope they DO, so that we can lay to rest another BIG LIE of this administration)

While it was certainly a mistake to enter into the Iraq War, and the new violence presents a real challenge for U.S. or other world state peacekeepers, it would seem to be a mistake for world peacekeepers to leave only to allow worsened violence between the Shiite and Sunni community to continue.

A policeman doesn't walk away from a bad situation simply because crime exists. He acts as part policeman and part social worker and part judge to restore order.

The efforts of the world community including the U.S. should morally be inclined to bring some public order to Iraq.

In the Ivory Coast, thousands of French and U.N. peacekeepers keep the peace. The same goes in Kosovo and other world troublespots.

A responsible world community doesn't just sit back and watch people kill one another in troubled areas. Whether the U.S. and supporting nations do it, NATO, or an U.N. mission, someone has to train Iraqi police and military to restore public order in Iraq.

PROGRESSIVE VALUES

Did anyone see George Bush addressing a veterans convention last week? He claims that he has increased spending for veterans since he took office and that there is an increase in the 2007 budget. Then why has my father in-law lost benefits from the VA over the past three years?
But here comes the kicker - Freedom is on the March - He has asked for 77 million dollars in emergency funds to help spread Democracy in IRAN. The response from the Crowd was dead silence.

We can spend 77 million dollars to help increase the hatred against the US. Or maybe, this is a novel idea - Help the victims of Huricane Katrina.

This is just another FLUSH of America down the Toilet. Who does he think he is trying to fool? The man has no SOUL.

Dear ConcernedDemocrat, Get all your buddies together and see if you can come up with a real good, rebuttal and then see if you can get it headed in the Blog? I like what you are doing.

So, given the desire of troops to leave, how do we communicate this to Congressespecially Democrats first, and the big media? I believe most people do not know this information
and would respect activists and politicians who make it known. The position of John Murtha is attractive because he is not seen as raving leftist.
I believe the position of Senators like Biden, Kerry, Clinton, Cantwell and others helps sustain the war. They must be made to see that the mission is falling apart. Pull back in theatre to Kurdistan and Kuwait.

funny....wasn't too long ago that dummy said the troops were behind him all the way and approved of this unnecessary war. he even had them sitting behind him "under orders" when he spoke to the press.....
haven't the people figured out that this administration is full of liers and profiteers?
they sacrifice this countrys sons and daughters, their own kids are never around, so they can get rich and then turn around and cut the throats of working people......
shame on them.....
impeach, then jail the lot.

dmoore, Here's one thing you do.

Take this link Tim posted above:

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1075

copy and paste it, onto emails to the Major networks, like loudobbs@cnn.com, cnn@cnn.com, viewerservices@msnbc.com, hardball@msnbc.com,
nightly@nbc.com, nightline@abc.com,earlyshow@cbs.comnetaudr@abc.com.

also to: letters@nytimes.com, letters@latimes.com, letters@washpost.com, editor@usatoday.com,wsj.ltrs@wsj.com

Also, copy and paste the article and either email it or fax it through to your congressmen. Both Senators and your Rep. Tell them you want them to honor the majority of troops who say enough is enough and want to come home.

Expecting an administration made bad decisions in the past to start making good ones is well.. not realistic..

here's one tale of where we are..

Good decisions as we look forward -- not based on the past

We all know that the middle east situation is more unstable than before the Iraq war. We also know that we must look forward. That said, can we trust an administration that has made a series of bad decisions? We need good decisi[III]ons as we go forward. Like it or not the past does count.

One of the problems that the US faces is that we have backed away from the goals/promises made to the Iraqi people. In affect, cutting and running. War is more than a messy business. And the Iraqi's may be willing to forgive the US for the 100,000 or so folks that have died. But that will require that the US keep its original goals. If not, will our troops will not be supported by the current administration. The rubber does meet the road.

Well, one good thing. Zogby has sent an email around to it's mailing list, discussing this Poll and it's results. But some of the results are very disappointing. these guys are still in the dark as to WHY we are there.

"Ninety-three percent said that removing weapons of mass destruction is not a reason for U.S. troops being there," said Pollster John Zogby, President and CEO of Zogby International. "Instead, that initial rationale went by the wayside and, in the minds of 68% of the troops, the real mission became to remove Saddam Hussein." Just 24% said that "establishing a democracy that can be a model for the Arab World" was the main or a major reason for the war. Only small percentages see the mission there as securing oil supplies (11%) or to provide long-term bases for US troops in the region (6%).

I don't post much these days, and I came today to post a link for this Zogby poll - for obvious reasons. It does my heart good to see that staff (thanks, Tim!) considered it important enough to merit its own thread. Now who wants to take bets on whether BushCo is listening? Bah!

And then there's this:

World Public Says Iraq War Has Increased Global Terrorist Threat
Favors Early Withdrawal from Iraq

World Public Says Iraq War Has Increased Global Terrorist Threat
Favors Early Withdrawal from Iraq

Posted by tylinCA on February 28, 2006 at 06:11 PM

tylin, I believe the Iraqis would agree very highly with this and have all the reason to feel that way.

I would like to ask a simple question.

What is the mission of the American Troops today in Iraq?

...other than hiding behind the barracks!

Every news account that I read state the American troops are not securing the peace, not policing the country, not fighting terrorists, etc.. How are they supposed to do anything hunkered down in the barracks?

Bush,

What is your mission in Iraq!?!?

Posted by HybridFuel on February 28, 2006 at 10:12 PM

The mission is over in Iraq.

Conditions are spiralling out of control. There are hundreds of people being injured or killed on a daily basis. The Civil War that was predicted before Bush invaded Iraq is about to break out.

The Bush Administration had the chance to win over the Iraqi People in the binging. He could of put Iraqi's to work to rebuild. But, instead brought in his buddies to do nothing and steal Billions.

An overwhelming majority of 72% of American troops serving in Iraq think the U.S. should exit the country within the next year,

AWWW! Even our Troops want to come home.We should bring them home!N O W !

We will have to get rid of the Republicans. Name all the people and organizations that the Republicans thumb their nose at?

I mean it folks, we have to get rid of the Republicans, it is a matter of America's survival or death to a great Nation.

Come on, get in the fight and expose the crime and immorality!

I HAD A DREAM

From the elite of the quill profession to the sometimes cartoonish talking heads of T.V., as in from Dowd to Hannity, the media of America do scant little to educate the public.

Collectively they behave as if they were youth taking alternating peeps through a hole in the wall of the boys and/or girls gym locker room. Espying a calf or a buttock they clamor and jostle to press their eye to the peephole and set off en masse to repeat gossipy chatter as news. This game, which is passed off as a profession, is today so ingrained that there is little reasoned analysis and the public neither wants nor expects any.

A case in point:

Thanks primarily to Jack Murtha's epically effective expose of the facts, Bush's positive ratings on his Iraq policy plummeted to the low 40's. This number was so low that the White House crew was forced to admit that no amount of dangling '9/11', terrorism, 'patriotism' and 'Stay the Course' in front of the peephole was going to bring back acceptable poll numbers.

The crew began to tell the truth. Murtha had poll-wise boxed in the White House and they began a strategy of selective honesty. (Yes, the intelligence was faulty. Yes, we made some mistakes. Yes, they see us as 'Occupiers'.)

I found the crew's new strategy to be hilarious. Imagine Mr. Brain telling W that the new strategy was to tell the truth on a few key points and to convey humility. I imagined W screaming "Are you nuts? Tell the truth? Not on my watch." and Karl saying, " It's not that big of a deal. Remember, they've only got that little peephole. They'll miss most of it."

A bigger case in point:

What I heard from George Bush, Karl Rove and the neocons at the State of the Union was a dead serious speech of great import and huge consequences. When President George W. Bush announced that we could no longer rely on unstable Middle East oil he was announcing the failure of his war in Iraq. When he announced that the U.S. needs to prodigiously expedite alternate energy sources and conservation he announced that we will not be striving for a large military footprint in the Persian oil patch. He announced that we are going to come home, again, from a foreign military adventure with little to commend us for the effort. If he bridles at second guessing and hindsight, given the advice he was given, who can blame him?

G.W. gave a speech all right. It was entitled "I Had A Dream."

I had a dream that the Iraqis would greet us as liberators.
I had a dream that the expatriates and exiles we championed would dominate Iraq for the foreseeable future.
I had a dream that we could have permanent bases in Iraq.
I had a dream that America could triple its secure hydrocarbon reserves by politically annexing Iraq.

Postscript: The media seemed to enjoy President Bush's use of the word 'addicted.'
America is addicted to oil, he said. "Well, that sounds just like America is drunk on oil," was the wisdom from the peephole and America needs a Gasaholics Anonymous meeting chortles the media.

Pardon me, but I don't think that Karl Rove, even on his best day, would have considered it possible for the media to whoop it up over the word, addicted, when the White House oil crew had just done the unthinkable and bear hugged every liberal's energy policy.

Vote for the GOP, the clean energy Party.

I Had A Dream.

(caj 2.4.06)

Bring Our Troops Home

Our dependence on unstable foreign sources of oil, to a large degree now, and more so in the future from the Persian Gulf dictates much of our military and national security planning and resource allocation.

Only by reducing our dependency on foreign hydrocarbon supplies will we be able bring home our troops from this war and/or the next war and/or the next war all fought to keep our ever-growing oil requirements flowing. The fact that China is foremost among our competitors for now scarce, becoming scarcer world oil supplies should be emphasized daily if need be.

The problem with America is here, not there. The solution lies here, not overseas. A national call to increase vehicle mileage ratings, increase solar and wind power usage and invest a portion of the hundreds of billions that war requires in advanced energy creation is the only sane course for America and all other major importing countries.

That pollution, global warming and our massive footprint in the Middle East, which so inflames so many, will be decreased by a national commitment to energy independence are all side effects; each a boon to America and mankind.

Iraq is not nearly the last war nor the bloodiest nor the most frightening that we will be fighting unless we get our ship in order. Be perfectly aware and be loudly forewarned that if we lack the will to change our dependent ways, thereby necessitating future conflicts, our military and our troops will rightly be seen as an international mercenary force in the employ of a failed national energy policy.

The famous World War One song rang out:

"The boys are coming,
the boys are coming,
and they won’t be back
til it’s ‘Over, Over There.’”

May I suggest:

“They won’t be back
til it’s ‘Over, Over Here.’”

(by CAJ 1.31.06)
((Published by Cape Cod Times))

I wrote this poem. Please use it in any way that will help people to understand the wrongness of torture and violations of human rights. Please pass it on to others to use.

A Child’s
Pledged of Allegiance to the Flag

When I Was Just a Small Lad
I Looked up So Proud,
I Saw the Stars and Stripes
And I Recited out Loud!

I Pledge Allegiance
My Young Voice Cried,
To the United State of America
And to the Freedom for Which -
So Many Have Died!

I Pledged Allegiance
To the Republic for Which it Stands,
To the One Nation under God
I Folded My Hands!

As I Recited My Pledge
To the Indivisible Country,
I Whispered a Little Prayer
That Really Seemed -
Very Important to Me!

I Was Pledging to a Country
That Promised Liberty and Justice for All,
Not Just for a Few
No ! Really, Really -
They Meant it for All!

So Everyone Can Be Free
We Go to the Polls and Vote,
Everyone Has a Voice
We Proudly Gloat!

No One Is Supposed to Be Left out
We Should All Have a Say,
But I Find That Is Not Always True
I Just Found That out -
Just the Other Day!

I Found That Some of the Meanings
Of the Pledge Have Changed You See,
They No Longer Seem to Mean
The Same Things -
That they First Meant to Me

I Recently Read That an Iraqi
General Had Died,
Around His Face an American Sleeping -
Bag Had Been Tied!

An American Military Officer
Who Also Recited the Pledge Right Along,
Sat on the Generals Chest
Until All of His Air Was Gone!

I Don’t Think it Was
Was the Right Thing for Him to Do.
And I Find Myself Wondering
If He Thought He Was Doing it -
Doing it for Me and for You!

I Wonder Which Clause of the Pledge
He Thought the Generals Death Would Uphold,
Was it an Act under God
Or Was it Liberty and Justice -
For All to Behold!

I Read That Yet More
Of Our Soldiers Across the Sea,
Were Fighting in Afganastan
They Claimed They Were Fighting -
Fighting for You and for Me!

But I Never Recall
Casting a Vote to Tell,
Those Soldiers That They Could Murder
A Prisoner in a Jail Cell!

They Went into His Cell
To Question Him You See,
And While They Were There
They Beat Him -
Unmercifully!

When They Came Back
Some Time Later That Day,
The Found That the Man Was Dead
They Really Felt -
Like They Had Earned Their Pay!

When Their Commander Was Asked
If These Murderers Would Go to Jail,
The Prisoner Could Have Died of Natural Causes
That Was His Tale!

So All of this Makes Me
Makes Me Wonder Some How,
How Did Our Pledge Change
Why Are We the Way -
The Way We Are Now!

Didn’t Enough of Us Go
Go to the Polls and Vote,
Maybe Too Many of Us Just Sat
Just Sat at Home and Gloat!

Or Did We All Decided
That Our Pledge Should Permanently Change,
The Whole Constitution
We Should Conveniently Rearrange!

If We Are Truthfully a Noble Nation
A Nation under God,
Can We Really Give These Murders
An Approving Nod!

If Our Pledge Does Mean
Mean Anything to Us,
Openly These Murders
Our Country Should Discuss!

If We Don’t Believe in Liberty and Justice for All
As the Pledge Does Say,
Then Lets Start Teaching Our Children
The New Words Today!

Liberty and Justice
the New Words Might Be
God Lets Us Kill
If Public Homage -
They Don’t Pay to Me!

I Write this Anonymous Poem
Anonymously You See,
For I Now Fear That My Government
Might Do the Same Thing -
to Me!

Zogby, can't trust his polls. He's pro-Arab. His pools are skewed to the pro-Arab side. He's an Arab and so is his brother who works for the polling company. I'll belive it if I hear it from Gallup and other well known pollsters. I'm sure his poll questions were loaded. Don't fall for this. I know you anti-war hate America liberal Carter Democrats are clinging on to his skewed poll. Us Truman democrats are pro-America and want to kick butt, take names and stay the course. America first not our enemies.

Liberal moonbats and a growing number of unpatriotic repugs believe the Bush Administration might just sort of call off this expensive misadventure at "freedom"; the US might either accept defeat and bravely admit mistakes were made, or fake some sort of glorious victory, whatever, but in any case - just leave.

However, the darker more probable reality is that BushCo has little reason to grant oversight of this strategic power, wealth and leverage to ordinary people in Iraq living above it all on the planet's surface. Very little reason.

That folks would be our job - to provide the political reason and to support the meaningful exploration and development of all energy alternatives reducing our fossil fuel dependency. It's not going to happen in the planning rooms at BushCo - being completely tied to oil.

Developing alternative energy sources might represent this country's best option diminishing terrorism. And it won't happen overnight or without commitment and cost.

Is it too bold to suggest this might represent an interesting major component for a political platform for Dems in 2008? Imagine if this country had spent the hundreds of billions of dollars we've spent on these initial "Oil Wars" differently - like on the development of infrastructure for alternative energy sources. Obviously, that dialogue, to be successful, would first require this country's public acknowledging the "why" we are in Iraq today. Maybe Bush was right and the American people would know "the difference" when they saw it?

http://wordsonapage1.blogspot.com/