Open Thread
Happy Wednesday.
Comments (284) «
In the first months of 2003, we joined much of the rest of the world in hopes that war with Iraq could be avoided, that a diplomatic breakthrough or confirmation of reports that Saddam Hussein possessed no weapons of mass destruction might render the military option unnecessary.How silly of us...
here's a good dose of Howard Zinn from Progressive magazine, "your survival guide for the Bush Administration"...
America’s Blinders
By Howard Zinn
April 2006 Issue
Now that most Americans no longer believe in the war, now that they no longer trust Bush and his Administration, now that the evidence of deception has become overwhelming (so overwhelming that even the major media, always late, have begun to register indignation), we might ask: How come so many people were so easily fooled?
This is for Sandy to help answer more of her questions from Yesterday.
Greg, what is even better about that cartoon is that the cartoonist up until about 4 months ago always had a right wing bias and lately has shifted gears and his now taking direct aim at Bush's policies and mistakes.
Good morning all. Forgot there was a new thread.
Posted this on the last one. Sorry.
Posted by fade2bluz on March 29, 2006 at 08:32 AM
Good morning, fade and all.
No wonder NASA has had so many problems. Forget the mission to Mars; the real mission is to save DeLay? That is pretty spacey.
That Stephen Hadley sure gets around. Hasn't he been a key spokesperson/pundit on all the Sunday talk shows lately? I can't wait for the trials to begin. Maybe they will start by 2009, when our troops get to come home?
Is it just me, or is the political relationship between the White House and Afganistan deteriorating as fast it is in Iraq? I think Condi should have shut up in public and let the negotiations behind the scenes work. The Afgani legislature is vivid about this Chrisitan convert's amnesty. All this administration knows how to do is act tough and get people killed.
Posted by SandyH on March 29, 2006 at 09:44 AM
Kristen, thanks for the link. I'll read it later today. Gotta run. later.
Leading Democrats in Vermont plan to decide in April whether to urge state lawmakers to petition for President Bush's impeachment using a little-known provision in the rules of the U.S. House.
that is good news kristen.
i did i few posts on the last thread that i think are worth reposting. if they weren't throw those rotten tomatoes:
got my fingers crossed that this is the real deal from truthout:
Fitzgerald Will Seek New White House Indictments
By Jason Leopold
t r u t h o u t | Report
Tuesday 28 March 2006
It may seem as though it's been moving along at a snail's pace, but the second part of the federal investigation into the leak of covert CIA agent Valerie Plame Wilson is nearly complete, with attorneys and government officials who have remained close to the probe saying that a grand jury will likely return an indictment against one or two senior Bush administration officials.
These sources work or worked at the State Department, the CIA and the National Security Council. Some of these sources are attorneys close to the case. They requested anonymity because they were not permitted to speak publicly about the details of the investigation.
In lengthy interviews over the weekend and on Monday, they said that Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has started to prepare the paperwork to present to the grand jury seeking an indictment against White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove or National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley.
Although the situation remains fluid, it's possible, these sources said, that Fitzgerald may seek to indict both Rove and Hadley, charging them with perjury, obstruction of justice, and conspiracy related to their roles in the leak of Plame Wilson's identity and their effort to cover up their involvement following a Justice Department investigation.
fitzmas in spring? sounds good to me!
and....
good stuff compiled by kos and borrowed by me. i like the leno one best:
"New Rule: Nobody can use the phrase "our greatest problem" anymore unless you're talking about global warming. President Bush has been saying we're in a war on terror, and now I get it. He's not saying "terror," he's saying "terra" as in "terra firma," as in the Earth. George Bush is an alien sent here to destroy the Earth! I know it sounds crazy, but it made perfect sense when Tom Cruise explained it to me last week."
---Bill Maher
-
"Here now a list of requirements for Dick Cheney's `downtime suite'...Cheney wants bottled water, decaffeinated coffee. He wants his lights on. He wants the temperature at 68 degrees, the TV's must be tuned to Fox news. I was thinking, 'My God, I wish they would have put this much preparation into the Iraq War.'"
---David Letterman
-
"We're now down to the final four. Not college basketball. The number of people who still think President Bush is doing a good job."
---Jay Leno
CSPAN POLL TODAY
Will the appointment of Joshua Bolten have a significant impact on the Bush presidency?
Yes 12%
No 88%
Total Votes: 239
Do you think illegal immigrants help or hurt the U.S. economy? * 653 responses
Help 27%
Hurt 73%
(it took me 50 tries to log on here, wassup wit dat?) grrrrrrrrrrr!
Greg, I heard on my way to work this morning that the judge in the Ambramoff case is going to delay Jack's prison reporting by up to 5 months so that he can continue to cooperate in the ongoing case that they expect to possibly go all the way up the Republican chain (gang?) to the White House.
It could continue to be the gift that keeps on giving all the way until September. :)
http://wdstvip.com/streaming.php
good sounds this morning. and check out that blade of grass in the lower left corner??
Do you know anyone who is an illegal immigrant?
Yes 33%
3151 votes
No 67%
6537 votes
Total: 9688 votes
sorry - {{morning peeps}}
Judges Back Court Review of Eavesdropping
By PETE YOST
ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON (AP) -
Five federal judges gave a boost Tuesday to legislation that would bring court scrutiny to the Bush administration's domestic spying program.
At a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing chaired by Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., the judges reacted favorably to his proposal that would require the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court to conduct regular reviews of the four-year-old program.
The existence of the warrantless surveillance by the National Security Agency was revealed by The New York Times three months ago.
The judges stressed that they were not offering their views on the NSA operation, which they said they knew nothing about.
But they said the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has operated capably for 28 years and is fully able to protect civil liberties and give the administration all the speed and flexibility it needs to execute the war on terror.
The administration contends the president has inherent war powers under the Constitution to order eavesdropping without warrants.
"I am very wary of inherent authority" claimed by presidents, testified U.S. Magistrate Judge Allan Kornblum. "It sounds very much like King George".
Sexual twist among fish in ocean ‘dead zones’
For zebrafish, low oxygen levels in the water turn their habitat into the equivalent of a freshwater locker room. When oxygen is reduced, newly born male zebrafish outnumber females 3-to-1, and the precious few females have testosterone levels about twice as high as normal, according to a scientific study released Wednesday.
see you folks a little later. gonna take the pooch to visit another lab pub and swim in a lake...the dogs not me.
sorry for the length of this one:
MoveOn has new Ad they want to get on which is proving VERY effective. All in black and white, with RED hands. they need money immediately to get it on the air. If interested, read on:
This Friday at midnight is the deadline for first-quarter election fundraising. To wrap up with a bang we're unveiling our new election TV ads—about big oil lobbying. They're a critical part of the big plan to win.
These are the best testing ads we've ever made but to get them on TV we need to raise $750,000 before Monday. That is our biggest fundraising goal yet but every time we've asked MoveOn members to step up you've done it.
http://political.moveon.org/donate/redhanded.html?id=7144-3347291-wkZnbQjI1sRmQ20jcUZDrA&t=3
If we can raise the money together, we'll put the ads on TV at saturation levels in five key districts—places where there's a good chance to beat a Republican incumbent but where it's not a toss-up yet. That'll help broaden the number of seats in play—and make a Democratic takeover even more possible.
The new TV ads are part of a series we're calling "Caught Red-Handed." On-screen during the ads, black and white pictures of Republicans whose hands have been colored red are used as a metaphor for the corruption in Washington.
The first ads in the series expose how the Republican incumbent is taking money from oil and energy companies and then supporting laws that giveaway billions to these companies while they price-gouge ordinary Americans.
The ad strategy is one of our most focused efforts yet. Here are some key points about it:
The ads are tested to maximize their impact. We're really excited to share that, in early tests, these new TV ads tested better than any ad we've ever created.
The ads are targeted strategically to help create a win. We'll put the ads on TV in districts that are leaning competitive but need an extra push.
The ad does double-duty by raising the important issue of energy policy. As The New York Times reported on Monday, the Republican Congress gave away as much as $28 billion to oil and gas companies in last year's energy bill in what the reporter called a, "familiar Washington story of special-interest politics at work."1 Oil and gas companies contributed more than $90 million to politicians since 2000.2
RNC Memo Warns GOPers Not To Distance Themselves From Bush
Republican pollster Jan van Lohuizen, in a memo written for RNC chairman Ken Mehlman, warns that if members of Congress try to drive a wedge between themselves and Pres. Bush, it'd be akin to adding weight to an anchor. GOpers are "W Brand Republicans" whether they like it or not. And van Louhizen, who has polled (often secretly) for the Bush White House under the RNC aegis for years, is worried about low turnout.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/03/post_6.html
Hey Pammy,
wish I could help - no one here (at my place) remembers AN extra 10 BUX. Can't say I know ANYone (local friends) that does either.
Too bad the AD industry doesn't see fit to reduce their prices!!!! Like the medical industry needs to do as well!!!
If it all comes down to who has the most money in the end........ why the hell are we killing ourselves here? just wondering?
we'll never be as rich as the greedy right!
regarding that last post, I drove back from Bridgeport last night, with a die-hard Republican.
We passed a bumper sticker on a car, "Enough is Enough, Vote Democratic". We pointed it out, and this gal, who is one of those blinded Defenders of this administration said, "Well, if you get a Good candidate, I will be voting for him".
So I have a feeling that even if we don't, she will probably just not show up to vote at all, she has had enough!!!
Morning {{{{Dawnie}}}
I have become much more selective in where I send the contribution bucks this time. Last election, I way, way overspent and sent to everything. This time, working with not only Lamont here, but the 3 Dems trying to unseat 3 Republican congresspeople, I am trying to make a bigger push on giving what I can to their campaigns instead. I still get email requests from Texas, Ohio, and lots of other State candidates, but just have to ignore them this time for the time being.
So I understand exactly what you are saying. Everyone has a limit.
If we put Kerry back up or Hillary I fear we will lose again. I hope we are not so stupid.
sorry kerry lovers - this does not mean I wouldn't vote for him - but he's been slimed so bad I don't think he'll recover.
I pray they put up someone like Feingold or Clark. Who EXACTLY chooses or votes on this??? UBER delegates??? are they bought and paid for as well? curious.
It would be good if we could get a list of the 67 who voted for NO OUTSIDE OFFICE to investigate their ethics! What would they have to be afraid of???????
The Senate rejected a proposal to establish an independent office to investigate ethics complaints against its members, and then cleared the way to pass a broad-based ethics and lobbying bill this week.
On a 67 to 30 vote, the Senate defeated a bipartisan proposal to create an office of public integrity, which its backers said was designed to strengthen enforcement of Senate rules and bolster voters' trust in Congress in the aftermath of the guilty plea in January of disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/28/AR2006032801586.html
ooo Keith Obermann beat Paula Zahn and Nancy Grace in ratings! Bill O was down 20+ percent according to Stephanie Miller!
YAY!
I know you understand {{Pam}} I'm just getting frustrated from this move thing. All the hidden costs. argh. and I have a splitting headache.
I'm surprised that O'Reilly gets ANY viewers anymore. Even Right Wing radicals must have had some disgust at this Sexual harassment charges! AND the way he handled it.
Mexican illegals vs. American voters
Gallup Poll (March 27) finds 80 percent of the public wants the federal government to get tougher on illegal immigration.
Quinnipiac University Poll (March 3) finds 62 percent oppose making it easier for illegals to become citizens (72 percent in that poll don't even want illegals to be permitted to have driver's licenses).
Time Magazine's recent poll (Jan. 24-26) found 75 percent favor "major penalties" on employers of illegals, 70 percent believe illegals increase the likelihood of terrorism and 57 percent would use military force at the Mexican-American border.
NBC/Wall Street Journal poll (March 10-13) found 59 percent opposing a guest-worker proposal, and 71 percent would more likely vote for a congressional candidate who would tighten immigration controls.
IQ Research poll (March 10) found 92 percent saying that securing the U.S. border should be a top priority of the White House and Congress.
SAY NO TO AMNESTY!
DON'T KISS THE ASSES OF ILLEGAL ALIENS!
Stephanie Miller also pointed out Josh Bolton's being a 51 yr old "confirmed bachelor" (rib rib) and the fact W calls him Yosh (or Yoshie as they were joking around)
who knows what goes on? I am about tired of their hypocrisy. You would think as much as they cry and bitch about various SEX scandals they would have JUMPED all OVER the Gannon scandal.
And of course WE can't keep bringing up their hypocrisy or we look like we're being that way ourselves. damn them! had any of this been reversed and Clinton still in office you KNOW they'd be ranting and raving and shooting fire out their black souless eyes 24/7
It also seems (by looking at the polls I put up) that people that KNOW undocumented people are equal to the ones that think they help the economy.
People that don't KNOW any assume they are hurting us. Just like those that don't KNOW any people of other races or sexual preferences are the ones that are so afraid of them! Paranoid is more like it!
FREAKS!! get a life and get OUT and MEET some people you are so FAST AND HAPPY to JUDGE!!!
yea I can judge you because I've been many places and met many people and have learned how to SPOT a RACIST and BIGOT by their fanatic hatred! It's not hard really!
Hillary is just Republican light and not very good at it either.
She panders to the Jewish war vote supporting the Iraq War, the latino vote, the NAFTA and CAFTA voters (SHGAFTA big business the shafter and workers the shaftee- Maher, and spends too much time in the mirror trying to look presidental.
Check out http://thecorporation.com/
Good Morning!
Ever get the feeling that the Republicans are just starting to take a dive? hehehe
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The debate on immigration poses deep political risks for a divided Republican Party that could see its recent gains among Hispanics wiped out if Congress approves a bill that gets tough with illegal workers.The Republican split on immigration, on full display as senators took up the issue on Monday amid emotional street protests, could sabotage the party's long-range effort to court the country's fastest growing ethnic group, Hispanic activists and analysts said.
"If they go ahead and crack down, Republicans are dead in the Latino community for a generation," said Antonio Gonzalez, a Los Angeles-based community organizer who heads the Southwest Voter Registration Education Project.
"They are headed off a cliff," he said of Republicans.
I see LOC had a good nights sleep and is ready to replay yesterday's conversation.
I think we should focus on the new memo that has surfaced about Bush and Blair itching for war...I wonder how many more presents from the UK we can expect between now and Nov. I hope for a notebook full of them. :)
"Hillary is just Republican light and not very good at it either."
She's the one to beat in 2008. She'll blow her opponents out of the water in 2006 and she'll prove she has what it takes to become President. The republicans will settle with John McCain.
Hillary vs. McCain in 2008.
Hillary is just Republican light and not very good at it either.
She panders to the Jewish war vote supporting the Iraq War, the latino vote, the NAFTA and CAFTA voters (SHGAFTA big business the shafter and workers the shaftee- Maher, and spends too much time in the mirror trying to look presidental.
Check out http://thecorporation.com/
Kristen - "I think we should focus on the new memo that has surfaced about Bush and Blair itching for war..."
I think talking about something that happened in 2003 is a complete waste of time. How will that help the Democrats in 2006? Majority of Americans and the entire world knows Bush is a complete loser and lame duck, so why focus on him and distract from the issues that benefit working class U.S. citizens like truly securing our borders, healthcare for all, good paying jobs and getting out of bloody Iraq?
Sorry for posting that twice. Don't know how it happened.
Democrats are just as divided on illegal immigration. It was Teddy Roosevelt, a Republican, who nearly 100 years ago said what many Democrats feel today:
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
That doesn't seem to be the case for illegal immigrants and their pursuit of being exploted in return for free healthcare and education for their children. Of which, over 50% don't finish high school.
Click the link for the original blog post with picture.
As a grassroots activist I sometimes feel powerless against the Washington insiders. That all changed as Christine Cegelis and her volunteers proved it is possible for us to have a fighting chance against the beltway bureaucrats. Cegelis proved that the grassroots candidates are competitive in 2006 and I'm here to tell you the primaries aren't over yet!
Just like kid oakland blogs about how "We all live in Richard Pombo's district", I felt like I also lived in Christine Cegelis' district. I followed Cegelis' race closely because I'm a grassroots volunteer for Jerry McNerney, running for congress in CA-11. Jerry's Democratic primary fight is similar to that of Cegelis'. In 2004 Cegelis and McNerney stood up to incumbent Republicans when no other Democrat would. Now, in 2006 they both face(d) Washington supported primary opponents. Another similarity that pisses me off to no end is that the last time I had checked, both candidates couldn't get their biographies and pictures posted on the DCCC candidate site while their Washington supported opponents did.
Here are Joe, Jody, and James, a few of my grassroot volunteer buddies on the McNerney campaign. They put me behind the camera because my name didn't start with J. We're working hard to continue the momentum the Cegelis campaign built so we can continue to show that our grassroots candidates are extremely competitive. But all our volunteer hours will be for nought if we can't continue to raise enough money to remain competitive against our primary opponent's Washington insider hosted fundraisers.
When I was in the McNerney campaign headquarters volunteering yesterday, I learned that they have an end-of-quarter goal of raising $50 each from 500 supporters. In fact, I received this e-mail from the campaign today. Can you help our candidate, Jerry McNerney, reach his Friday, March 31, end-of-quarter fundraising goal by contributing $50 or whatever you can afford at: http://www.securedpayments.com%2Fjerrymcnerney%2Fcontribute.asp
I know the McNerney campaign finance dude will not be happy with me for saying this, but I guess that's the advantage of being an unpaid volunteer:-) There's a grassroots approved way to make your contribution to the McNerney campaign. We've got a lot of bloggers out there writing stuff about the CA-11 race, and it would be great if you could make your contribution to the McNerney campaign as a statement supporting blue bloggers. Jerry does have a blog too and you may have caught his posting about "The Real Fighting Dems" a few months ago. Matt, at the Say Not to Pombo blog, has an ActBlue contribution page where you can contribute your green grassroots bucks to Jerry McNerney. Scroll down to the bottom and make sure you contribute in the correct box for Jerry McNerney. Make your contribution with 11 cents added so Matt knows we are showing him some grassroots green. As an example, you would enter $50.11 in the Jerry McNerney box at:
http://www.actblue.com/page/saynotopombo
I can't say enough about how great it is to work for a campaign that really is grassroots. Jerry McNerney has hired not just one, but two, yes T-W-O, of the Bay Area DFA 1.0 and 2.0 people as paid campaign staffers. Many of you may have heard of Vicki Cosgrove and Eden James from Northern California and Oakland DFA. I thought I knew a lot of people in the area, but they are amazing.
I know from reading the posts that there are some people who want to give up on the Democratic Party, but we're not ready to do that. We volunteers are not only fighting to put a great candidate in office, but we're also fighting for the future of our party, so let's get to work. We have only a few days till the Friday deadline.
Thank You.
Thom Kunselman
Hayward, California
http://www.ThisIsWhatDemocracyLooksLike.com
P.S. OK, I know the Finance Director is really going to kill me for saying this if/when he finds out, but wouldn't it be neat if we could get 500 grassroots contributors for Jerry McNerney on Matt's Say No to Pombo blog ActBlue page? http://www.actblue.com/page/saynotopombo
P.P.S. If you have your own blog, why not consider putting this Jerry McNerney advertisement on your blog? Then you can fill out an in-kind contribution form for donating advertising to the campaign. Just make sure you fax the form in before the March 31 deadline. I figure putting the advertisement on my blog is worth a $50 per month from April through November as an in-kind contribution. Let me know if you have any suggestions to improve the advertisement. It's the first one I ever made to donate to a campaign.
Cut and Paste the following source code to display the image and link on your blog <a href="http://www.securedpayments.com/jerrymcnerney/contribute.asp"><img src="http://www.ThisIsWhatDemocracyLooksLike.com/images/mcnerney-volunteers.png" alt="We're Grassroots Volunteers for Jerry McNerney. Please contribute to our candidate." width="151" height="250" border="0"></a>Posted by Kristen on March 29, 2006 at 11:49 AM
the whole blog just shut down over here
I thought it was LOC's racists RANTS AND SCREAMS TO NOT KISS THE BUTTS OF PEOPLE FROM PLUTO
(that's what I consider alien)
oh and PUGs and RACISTS
Dawnelle - "LOC's racists RANTS AND SCREAMS"
Being against illegal immigration is racist?
Wanting secure borders is racist?
Please...
Dawnelle
Do you consider people who oppose illegal immigration to be racist?
Posted by Kristen on March 29, 2006 at 10:14 AM
Sounds to me like the making of environmental homosexuality.
Makes me wonder about humans too...take away a womans rights, take away birth control...who do we have hetros have to turn to for physical relationships? (those of us who are single, I mean) Oh thats right! I forgot! We aren't supposed to have sex.
well if you put it like THAT B E F O R E you showed your true COLORS of course we want to secure our borders.
You are ranting about those that protested and those that have even the SLIGHTEST empathy for those that seek a better life for themselves and their offspring!!!
If you want to blame someone (no offense to catholics) blame them!! If they didn't PREACH NO BIRTH CONTROL there wouldn't BE SO MANY poor wanting to move here! jmo.
Posted by Butters on March 29, 2006 at 12:40 PM
indeed - wassup jaq you horny? lol j/k
Dawnelle - "those that seek a better life for themselves and their offspring!!!"
I support them seeking a better life for themselves and their offspring but I don't support them breaking the law while doing it.
Do you support armed robbery and bank heists? What about drug dealing and credit card fraud? All their trying to do is seek a better life for themsleves and their offspring.
" If they didn't PREACH NO BIRTH CONTROL there wouldn't BE SO MANY poor wanting to move here!"
That sounds like something Bill Bennett would say:
[Y]ou could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down"
Dawn,
Always. ;)
Seriously, I've been thinking about environmental homosexuality for a while. I'm not being disrespectful to those who are naturally, but I do see changes coming. (you who know me & my predictions might not think I'm off my rocker, others might. so be it)
Posted by brunohokalugie on March 29, 2006 at 12:39 PM
either RACIST or sorely UNINFORMED and INEXPERIENCED in LIFE!!! Like maybe they are 20 something and still wet behind the ears or they are 60 and have never left their dustbowl ramshackled corner of some room in bumfk NO WHERE!
Those are also the ones that have 10 ft tall chain link fences to border off their property from EVERYONE!
jmo
Posted by Butters on March 29, 2006 at 12:50 PM
EVERYthing is chemical based! but genetics is not so easily changed!!
Posted by LOC on March 29, 2006 at 12:49 PM
not quite the same and your analogies suck imo.
Most of us empathize with illegal immigrants. Look at the side affects of our nearly bankrupt county healthcare facilities. Illegal immigration medical expenditures result in decreased capital for proving HIV/AIDS medications, poor children who are citizens from receiving adequate healthcare services, poor mothers who are citizens from receiving prenatal services, and the list goes on.
We as a nation cannot afford to provide every poor person in this hemisphere a job being exploited for free medical care and education.
That is reality, not racism.
Posted by brunohokalugie on March 29, 2006 at 12:53 PM
that is false
I have attended (monthly) the local health depts of various locations in the last 7 yrs and I tell you I see LESS foreign looking people receiving FREE health care than I do the elderly!
I am a VET and disabled so I am not making these facts up. You may be reading some crap from the center of L.A. or some area that is on a border. ALL borders EVERYwhere have some trouble. SO.............. lets get crackin and get those people to do their jobs. IN the mean time don't you dare say they take anything away from MY medical care cuz the absolutely do NOT!!
shame on you for passing on BS like its fact
Dawnelle - "sorely UNINFORMED and INEXPERIENCED in LIFE!!! Like maybe they are 20 something and still wet behind the ears"
No, that would be the Illegal Alien supporting protesters waving Mexican flags on American streets while saying stuff like this:
"Without immigrants, this country wouldn't be anything,"
and
"It's not fair what they're doing to the Mexicans,"
The protesters have absolutely no idea what this country is about and obviously they're ignorant to American history. They rub it in our face and make demands after clearly violating the law by being in the country country without permission.
1. Shut down and criminalize businesses that hire illegals
2. Deport and criminalize those entering into country illegally
and
3. Simplify immigration process
Anything less is unamerican in my opinion.
AND
the truth of REALITY is................ what ever is happening within about 3 ft of you is YOUR reality
anything else you can either avoid if you are awake or embrace if you so choose!
that is REALITY
anyway
I'm done debating the issue. I live in Florida. We have had more influx of immigration than MOST places and yes a few years ago I called them illegal aliens too.......... not anymore.
Growth is power!
Butters,
It's not so crazy (environmental homosexuality), and this is coming from a natural/genetic homosexual!
It makes sense that with overpopulation, overcrowding, or other environmental conditions that homosexuality eventually emerges as a form of survival.
For instance, with overpopulation, homosexuals don't tend to add to the population problem, but are usually relied on to care for members of our family such as children or the elderly that no one else will. Sometimes we even care for those outside of our family such as in the case of fostering and adopting children. Look at how the two male penguins cared for the egg and raised it as their own. There are other stories like this in nature.
Who's to say that environmental drives won't exascerbate the need for homosexual behaviors, even in those where it wouldn't be a genetic predisposition?
brunohokalugie on March 29, 2006 at 12:53 PM:
You miss the larger picture, as the reason our public health facilities are in financial crisis has everything to do with "health reform" and "privatization" and little to do with immigration. What you are seeing is the logical result of the Republican deregulation and privatization movements. The private medical facilities now skim all of the "profitable" cases, leaving only those who are needy going to public health facilities for their care. Then the very same Republicans who engineered this shift in our system are Shocked, Shocked I tell you, that the public health facilities are in financial crisis. So, they found a scapegoat that has nothing to do with their actions, nor the actual problem... Its all those illegal immigrants, yeah, that's the ticket, its all the illegal immigrants' fault.
Bruno you are neglecting to point out the millions of dollars illegal immigrants pour into state revenues in the form of income and sales tax.
There is an assumption that all people here illegally are undocumented which is not accurate.
Many came here under temporary visa's and haven't left. That does not mean that they are not working and actually paying for the services you all site through the payment into these forms of revenue.
Yep, immigration is the next dividing issue...dividing democrats. It is a sore subject, but needs addressed.
Everyone, have a nice afternoon!
"How can they do this?" Mr. Ubady said. "An ambassador telling a sovereign country what to do is unacceptable."
George Bush vs. al Sadr. I wonder who will still be around by 2009?
* * *
Kristen, thanks again for that link on illegal immigrants. So most have children with them who were born here.
I still don't have a good fix on how they get hired and where they live. I assume most worked in agriculture and service industries. I was aware that they were being utilized in the construction industry because of the building boom in the past few years.
It appears that there is no real sterotype. Some are migrants and some are anchored. The article said they were building communities in North Carolina for instance. I guess that's how many find help and a job when they come in.
With so many having children born here, it's not surprising that they would settle down and make a home. It appears they are doing the same thing all other immigrant groups have always done when they came to this country. They take the losest paying jobs, learn the language, get an education, and save what they can so their children can have what they didn't have growing up.
If they were mostly migrants, this would be a lot less of a problem. You can't ignore people who work and create communities. The second generation is what the Republicans are worried about. They will be competing for better jobs as they grow up....and few of these are being created but instead are being shipped off to other countries.
They came to this country to attain the American Dream for their children and the Republicans have done everything they can to kill it. It's a long way to travel just to be disappointed.
one more thing
even after they put me on medicare I continued going to the local health depts. I've always liked them more than any other options I've had.
The wait is just as long either way but the people at all of the health depts I've been too were always MUCH nicer and the care was the same.
So why not give them my medicare dollars? They need them!
sigh........
LOC, didn't you have enough of your 'debate' yesterday?
So what, even if you think you win this debate. Do you think anything will change, because a group of Democrats on a blog finally agree you are right? What the heck is your point of all this? Give it a rest, for gawd's sake!
If you want to add in the rest of the discussion, fine, but do not look like you strictly want Controversy. It is non-effective in the long run.
Sandy - "how they get hired and where they live."
They get hired illegally by contractors and employers who pay under the table. They live 5 to 10 deep in 2 bedroom apartments with family and friends.
Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security with Billions
While it has been evident for years that illegal immigrants pay a variety of taxes, the extent of their contributions to Social Security is striking: the money added up to about 10 percent of last year's surplus - the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits. Moreover, the money paid by illegal workers and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections.
laws are made by men (sometimes women)
whoopee! we change them all the time
deciding which laws are JUST or FAIR is why we debate! right?
don't get hung up on LEGAL! tis only a word
unless you are some fundie thinking that all laws should equal all sins???? then it's just a reason to judge people......... I hate cigarette smokers (to be honest) but I won't call the cigarette police if someone lights up in a bar? (where it is now ILLEGAL) do you? unless you are one of those that just likes to rat on people?
PamB - "didn't you have enough of your 'debate' yesterday?"
Not really. This is the hottest issue facing Americans today as long as the Senate is pushing for amnesty, I'll talk about it.
"Do you think anything will change, because a group of Democrats on a blog finally agree you are right?"
I doubt it.
"What the heck is your point of all this? Give it a rest, for gawd's sake!"
You'd rather bash Bush and talk about stuff that happened in 2003, fine. I'd rather talk about issues crucial to taxpaying U.S. Citizens.
This IS a "open thread", correct?
Dawnelle - " I hate cigarette smokers (to be honest) but I won't call the cigarette police if someone lights up in a bar?"
And I would never call INS to a construction site that I know employed illegals. What's your point?
Loc, that is why you were called a troll yesterday...you want to move the blog off topic into a debate on a highly inflammatory subject and take the focus off the failings of this administration...and you wonder why people suggest you be ignored.
Posted by LOC on March 29, 2006 at 01:28 PM
the point is you don't KNOW any! So why are you continuing to try to debate it? no forget it.
I have totally lost all ice cream credits for this day haven't I Gregg?
I agree Kristen. There are soooooooooo many other failures to discuss. If the individual states have problems they need to address them individually!
criminalizing people for trying to survive is criminal in itself.
I must go now before my headache gets any larger!
Peace OUT!
Kristen - "you want to move the blog off topic into a debate on a highly inflammatory subject and take the focus off the failings of this administration."
So the whole point of this blog is to bash Bush?
Loc, it's not the whole point but gets to be a highlight, especially now that his house of cards is crumbling.
As I mentioned earlier Abramoff was just sentenced to 5 years and 10 months but it looks like he will get a stay out of jail card so he can continue to name names in the investigation.
(I keep hering the "happy birthday" song in my head and it's not even my birthday today!) :)
well not just bash bush. sometimes we slice and dice bush. which is why we all own these:
Immigration....if anyone wants important info based on facts and research, not political crap, go to the best source. Center for Immigration Studies. The part on Social Security totalization will amaze you.
This is rich, coming from the "expert on playing on peoples fears"...
The immigration debate should be conducted in a civil and dignified way. No one should play on people's fears, or try to pit neighbors against each other. No one should pretend that immigrants are threats to America's identity, because immigrants have shaped America's identity. No one should claim that immigrants are a burden on our economy, because the work and enterprise of immigrants helps sustain our economy.
Dawnelle - "criminalizing people for trying to survive.."
That is the weakest argument you could possibly come up with for illegal immigration in my opinion.
Bank robbers, shoplifters, people who commit check fraud, credit card fraud, burgalarize, pull off heists all do it to survive. Should we condone and apologize for those crimes too?
Perhaps the best solution for illegal aliens should become a states rights issue? Some states really need the low-wage workers and other states don't want them driving down their economy. So let the feds get out and leave it to the governors and local legislators to settle the dispute and come up with solutions to their own problems.
jack was looking real natty as he prepared to get chatty....sing birdie sing...
MIAMI (Reuters) - Jack Abramoff, a disgraced lobbyist at the heart of a Washington influence-peddling scandal that has rattled top Republicans, was sentenced to nearly six years in prison on Wednesday for fraud in the purchase of a Florida casino cruise line.
Abramoff, who is cooperating in a federal investigation into whether Washington politicians gave his clients favorable treatment in exchange for campaign contributions, Super Bowl tickets and other illegal gifts, was sentenced to 5 years and 10 months in prison.
Posted by LOC on March 29, 2006 at 01:35 PM
Ok, I think I kind of get your "opinion"...But, I'm curious, what real life experience have you got with this "hot topic". Ever worked or lived near any illegal immigrants. Ever worked with a company that hired or rather took advantage of illegal immigrants. Ever lost a job to an illegal immigrant...Ever see an illegal immigrant get free services of any kind.. ever see and illegal immigrant.????
Enlighten me and the blog.
Posted by LOC on March 29, 2006 at 01:44 PM
oh for petes sake
i'm trying to leave here
NO that is FALSE
you do NOT get the meaning of survival apparently
theives are either living beyond their means (because they are greedy bastards) or they are kleptomaniacs (sp) but NOT doing it to survive! thats BS on a stick man! your arguement is worse than mine!
Kristen - "especially now that his house of cards is crumbling"
Bingo!
Now it's time to focus on ways us Democrats can fix tough issues facing U.S. Citizens like getting out of Iraq, heathcare for all, keeping good paying jobs in America and securing the borders from terrorists and illegal immigration. Trashing Bush is fun but I doubt it will win us back the house and senate in 2006 on that platform.
kristen...the happy birthday song is for Cesar Chavez. Today is recognized in Calif and Texas as his day.
Posted by Idagrannie on March 29, 2006 at 01:45 PM
B I N G O
give granny the BIG prize! ;-)
Dawnelle
I’m a veteran also. So don’t try to throw your high and mighty crap on me. I work at Parkland Hospital in Dallas. Everyday our emergency rooms are filled with illegal immigrants and we treat everything from major wounds to sick babies.
Most people, especially illegal immigrants without insurance, do nothing until the time the illness becomes life threatening. A child’s illness can be more economically handled by a local doctor than in a major hospital emergency room. But that takes the cooperation of the responsible parties.
Poor people who are citizens are being denied coverage under the state CHIP program because illegal immigrants are utilizing all of the funding.
A large portion of the illegal immigrant injuries are construction related.
Many employers will deduct Social Security, Medicare, and Federal Income Tax if the worker has a SS card. Illegal immigrants don’t.
However, these federal deductions do not provide relief to state county hospitals for either job related or other injuries. Medicaid is a matched funding program so the states pay a large amount of the bill. Any amount over the state allocation is an additional tax burden on state taxpayers.
Everyday our emergency rooms are overloaded and we sometimes even work extra hours without pay just to help. So don’t throw your high and mighty “I know it all” BS on me.
The UFW was not the only union Reagan busted. Remember the Air Traffic Controllers strike and he forced them back to work. Their union has not been the same since.
Posted by brunohokalugie on March 29, 2006 at 01:51 PM
sounds like a STATE problem with CHIP?
better vote that one out!
high and mighty? the truth can be mighty for sure! high? no not today
pfffffffft j/k
ok i swear i am leaving now
if you were a VET lets here when, what unit, who you served under? give it up? prove it!
I'll come back later and catch up
(I don't believe btw that you are either NEW here or a democrat but that's just cuz I don't believe people like I used to)
hope Im wrong
i come here and weave satirical gold, spun from the fibers of bullshit pulled from today's headlines with my bare he man like hands and what do i get in return....no recognition and endless pissing contests with cranks and trolls....its a hard world to catch break in....all the good jokes have been takin....
Dave - "But, I'm curious, what real life experience have you got with this "hot topic". Ever worked or lived near any illegal immigrants."
"Ever worked with a company that hired or rather took advantage of illegal immigrants."
No. I do sales and consulting. Not too many illegals in that line of work unless the illegal deals drugs.
"Ever lost a job to an illegal immigrant..."
No.
"Ever see an illegal immigrant get free services of any kind.."
Does food stamps, free emergency room care and welfare count?
"ever see and illegal immigrant.????"
A matter of fact, yes. I recently bought a home in a brand new subdivision that is being built by illegal immigrants.
Dawnelle
You phony!!!
16th Air Force, 93 Bomb Wing, SAC 1968-72
Dawnelle
You phony!!!
15th Air Force, 93 Bomb Wing, SAC 1968-72
Here is my final comment on the illegals...honest.
When we lived in Calif back in the 70's and 80's, we had neighbors who were illegals. One of their daughters went to school with my girl. They were in the 6th grade. One Thursday afternoon the neighbor girl came over to say goodbye to us. She was crying slightly. She said her grandma in Mexico had just passed away and her mom and dad were really having at it over whether to go back for the funeral or not. Finally the mom said she was going back and taking the kids with her. She did not plan to come back. She was not happy as an illegal and did not want her children to grow up in that situation. I went over to see her to see if I could do anything to help out and the mom was also crying. She said she had made up her mind to go and take the kids. Her husband would not even consider leaving, so he was going to go live with his uncle in another town. She was already packing. She said her husbands uncle had been in Calif for many years, and his wife and kids had stayed behind in Mexico. She did not want her husband to stay with the uncle because the uncle was very good to send money back to his family whenever he could...BUT the uncle has an American wife and children in Calif and the family in Mexico knows nothing about them. She was really worried that the same thing would happen to her and her children. I asked why she would not come back to Calif and she had a long list of reasons, all of which were heartbreaking. The main one was her children. They lived with so much fear and uncertainty. They had to learn english in a hurry. They were prey to Mexican gangs in school...join or be sorry. They felt so thwarted in wanting to be "a regular kid" and do what all the other kids could, but they would stand out and it would draw attention to them. They could NEVER call attention to themselves or the family. It would be the end of staying in Calif. The price of staying was more than she wanted to pay. She wanted her children back in Mexico with their relatives and their old way of life.
By that weekend they were gone and their house was empty. She asked me if I would call the realtor after they were gone so the house could be rented to someone else. They left the place clean and neat. The realtor told me they had a deposit refund coming if I ever heard from them. I never found out what happened to them.
They tend to be younger, employed
Illegal workers make up about 5 percent of the U.S. labor force. More than nine in 10 males illegally here are in that labor force, compared with 83 percent of men born in the United States.
Illegal immigrants tend to be younger than American workers, which helps explain why they are more likely to hold jobs, researchers said.
Female illegal immigrants, however, were less likely to work than their American counterparts, perhaps because most have young children, the Pew analysis said.
Illegal immigrants are concentrated in construction, agriculture and cleaning jobs. They make up 36 percent of all insulation workers, 29 percent of agricultural workers and 29 percent of roofers.
The Center for Immigration Studies, which advocates restricting immigration, recently issued a report saying that immigrants compete for jobs with less-educated Americans, especially high-school dropouts.
About half of adult illegal immigrants have not graduated high school, the Pew analysis found. About a third have less than a ninth-grade education.
About a quarter of illegal immigrants have at least some college, with 15 percent holding at least a bachelor's degree.
------------------------------------------------
From cnn.com
Anyone living in the deep south on the blog today? If so, how does it look for Dems in the Nov election? How is it going for local Dem races?
Posted by Idagrannie on March 29, 2006 at 01:49 PM
And really....illegal immigration benefits all of us.
If as is suggested, we criminalize illegal immigration, think for one second how much any produce would cost, think how much a house would cost. How about a lawn service or any other service related industry for jobs that most teenagers turn their nose up too now a days.
I have to laugh at the pundits and the morons who self righetously claim that illegal immigration is anything but a bonus and a gift to the average american. With breathtaking patriotism and moral depravity, these dickwads of judgement, take a stance that they are somehow be robbed of their american dream.
What a load of shit. We take advantage of our mexican friends, pay a buck a pound for oranges and then point a finger at them as though they are the criminals.
Those same shameless, howling, self righteous dickwads, would be at the head of the line, screaming if they had to pay real wages or real american wages for any service or product if it was not subsidized by cheap labor, provided by...that's right...those illegal son's and daughters of mexico or central america.
They need our compassion first. We need a real immigration policy and a policy that takes into account the real need for cheap labor. Not some pie in the sky policy based on fictious bullshit that discounts the reality.
And a secure border??? We don't need a secure border for "terrorist". It wouldn't matter how secure we think a border is, a terrorist is going to find a way in. That is the reality. The other reality is that a border between here and Mexico has to be a border that will take into account the sheer number of people wanting to get into the US.
And, no matter how it's debated, no matter what is decided, it won't matter, because it is not in our best interest or the governments best interest to stop illegal immigration.
And that my friends is the reality.
Michigan Dave....the waiting list to immigrate to the US is longer than all the others nations put together.
WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush said Wednesday that Saddam Hussein, not continued U.S. involvement in Iraq, is responsible for ongoing sectarian violence that is threatening the formation of a democratic government.
In his third speech this month to bolster public support for the war, Bush worked to counter critics who say the U.S. presence in the wartorn nation is fueling the insurgency.
Bush said that Saddam was a tyrant and used violence to exacerbate sectarian divisions to keep himself in power, and that as a result, deep tensions persist to this day.
"The enemies of a free Iraq are employing the same tactics Saddam used, killing and terrorizing the Iraqi people in an effort to foment sectarian division," Bush said.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WTF? Every time I think I have heard it all from this incompetent doofus he comes up with something even more incredulous!
oh, and while I let the subject drop...I do think that the war memo is a big deal and so do the soldiers there that are dying or being injured because of Bush's lies. We need to keep talking and screaming until they all come home.
Loc, if that isn't a worthy enough issue for you too bad.
I have a meeting to run off to, so don't confuse my lack of response as agreement with anything you say LOC.
Anyone see the new American Prospect magazine last week? Al gore on the cover...maybe another try at Pres for him. He still has support.
"And really....illegal immigration benefits all of us."
Really?
US prison and jail population consist of 25% illegal immigrants.
Who pays for that?
I have to laugh at the pundits and the morons who self righetously claim that illegal immigration is anything but a bonus and a gift to the average american
On the surface, and if that was the only cost factor you would be correct. However, factoring in medical, educational, increased local taxes, and legal costs we really don't get things as cheap as the base price might incorrectly indicate.
But I admire not your succinctness in advocating the exploitation of illegal immigrants.
MONETARY POLICY SUBTERFUGE ALERT!!
Please be advised, the BushCorp. Fed may be taking advantage of the rather well-organized, not-at-all spontaneous, well-financed Immigration Reform Protest Movement to further an undisclosed program overstimulate the US economy by printing a wild excess of US currency at fever pitch pace. If this is true, hyperinflation, a la pre-World War II Germany, will be on the very near horizon.
So, please, even if you're one regular guys/gals whose eyes glaze over when you sense you're about to be subjected to information about the economy, please pay attention to this, and pass the word, as well as the link, to this information at AxisofLogic.com:
"http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml">http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml
If you can't access that link, go to this one at wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com:
"http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/03/fed-props-up-economy-with-tons-of-new.html"
If this is nonsense, the better blogs should be able to ferret this out. However, if it's true, we are in for one heck of a roller coaster ride, and the cars are already off the track!
MONETARY POLICY SUBTERFUGE ALERT!!
Please be advised, the BushCorp. Fed may be taking advantage of the rather well-organized, not-at-all spontaneous, well-financed Immigration Reform Protest Movement to further an undisclosed program overstimulate the US economy by printing a wild excess of US currency at fever pitch pace. If this is true, hyperinflation, a la pre-World War II Germany, will be on the very near horizon.
So, please, even if you're one regular guys/gals whose eyes glaze over when you sense you're about to be subjected to information about the economy, please pay attention to this, and pass the word, as well as the link, to this information. Then, comment here, if you find the info compelling.
You can find it at AxisofLogic.com:
"http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml">http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml
If you can't access that link, go to this one at wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com:
"http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/03/fed-props-up-economy-with-tons-of-new.html"
If this is nonsense, the better blogs should be able to ferret this out. However, if it's true, we are in for one heck of a roller coaster ride, and the cars are already off the track!
MONETARY POLICY SUBTERFUGE ALERT!!
Please be advised, the BushCorp. Fed may be taking advantage of the rather well-organized, not-at-all spontaneous, well-financed Immigration Reform Protest Movement to further an undisclosed program overstimulate the US economy by printing a wild excess of US currency at fever pitch pace. If this is true, hyperinflation, a la pre-World War II Germany, will be on the very near horizon.
So, please, even if you're one regular guys/gals whose eyes glaze over when you sense you're about to be subjected to information about the economy, please pay attention to this, and pass the word, as well as the link, to this information. Then, comment here, if you find the info compelling.
You can find it at AxisofLogic.com:
"http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml">http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml
If you can't access that link, go to this one at wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com:
"http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/03/fed-props-up-economy-with-tons-of-new.html"
If this is nonsense, the better blogs should be able to ferret this out. However, if it's true, we are in for one heck of a roller coaster ride, and the cars are already off the track!
Does food stamps, free emergency room care and welfare count?
Ya know, I hear that repeated constantly and have a real hard time getting my head around it.
If an illegal immigrant is getting the above "free services" you can bet your ass that they have somehow obtained some kind of "illegal" identification. Like a social security number and a drivers license. They may have had to pay for that on the black market or underground, right?
So, somebody got paid. The illegal immigrant had to pay and the money, presumably made it's way back into the economy.
With their illegal identification they paid for, they got a job. The employer, using the illegal identification then deducts Federal Tas, State Tax and Social Security, just like normal.
They require emergency services, have now insurance, is that the scenario? So they go to the hospital and are asked for a insurance card, just like they ask us, only we a legal citizens rights? When you go to the hospital they ask you the same questions and if you don't have insurance, what happens? Cash right or if you have a social security number and you qualify after filling out 15 forms, medicare pays, right?
So I would hardly say, since our illegal immigrant with his or her illegal social security number having illegal deductions taken our of their wages would be getting anything for free.
And in your brand new subdivision, how much more would you have paid if instead of paying a crew of 10 illegals $10.00 an hour, the construction company was paying $25.00 and hour? Think you could have afforded your new house?? Do the math??
Who wins and who is criminalized. Who is the victim here?
MONETARY POLICY SUBTERFUGE ALERT!!
Please be advised, the BushCorp. Fed may be taking advantage of the rather well-organized, not-at-all spontaneous, well-financed Immigration Reform Protest Movement to further an undisclosed program overstimulate the US economy by printing a wild excess of US currency at fever pitch pace. If this is true, hyperinflation, a la pre-World War II Germany, will be on the very near horizon.
So, please, even if you're one regular guys/gals whose eyes glaze over when you sense you're about to be subjected to information about the economy, please pay attention to this, and pass the word, as well as the link, to this information. Then, comment here, if you find the info compelling.
You can find it at AxisofLogic.com:
"http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml">http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml
If you can't access that link, go to this one at wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com:
"http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/03/fed-props-up-economy-with-tons-of-new.html"
If this is nonsense, the better blogs should be able to ferret this out. However, if it's true, we are in for one heck of a roller coaster ride, and the cars are already off the track!
MONETARY POLICY SUBTERFUGE ALERT!!
Please be advised, the BushCorp. Fed may be taking advantage of the rather well-organized, not-at-all spontaneous, well-financed Immigration Reform Protest Movement to further an undisclosed program overstimulate the US economy by printing a wild excess of US currency at fever pitch pace. If this is true, hyperinflation, a la pre-World War II Germany, will be on the very near horizon.
So, please, even if you're one regular guys/gals whose eyes glaze over when you sense you're about to be subjected to information about the economy, please pay attention to this, and pass the word, as well as the link, to this information. Then, comment here, if you find the info compelling.
You can find it at AxisofLogic.com:
"http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml">http://www.axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_21569.shtml
If you can't access that link, go to this one at wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com:
"http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/03/fed-props-up-economy-with-tons-of-new.html"
If this is nonsense, the better blogs should be able to ferret this out. However, if it's true, we are in for one heck of a roller coaster ride, and the cars are already off the track!
"He still has support."
I'd support Al.
A matter of fact... A Gore/Hillary ticket would woop anything the republicans put against us.
Posted by lavndrblue on March 29, 2006 at 02:22 PM
Lav, I think it's called grasping at straws. He's in the last throws of a serious breakdown. If he weren't such a criminal, I'd almost feel sorry for him.
Dave - "Think you could have afforded your new house??"
Yes.
Are you supporting and condoning identity theft now?
hmmm lots of multiple posts, lots of pychosis...cheap labor creates wealth for others.
wdst is really good today....you live in a church where you sleep with voodoo dolls....this song is describing the bush white house....
anyhow if you pay a guy $10 an hour to build a brick chimney on a house that is going up in dallas ( or does everyone build those wooden pieces of shit with the metal liners? ) and you price the chimney at say a labor cost of $30 an hour plus benefits you make alot of fucking money when you sell the house....more than enough to cover the slop and mop the poor guy's cousin is pushing in some hell hole prison in texas where the inmates basically are hired out as slave labor to farmers and corporations....so yeah muthafucka we do real well on the backs of the illegals and this is so friggin boring i'm going outside to get the garden ready....
The article on Gore says he is no longer embarrassed about being "too smart" and has become his own person in a big way. I wish we could have a President who is "too smart"!!!!!
Language like that doesn't belong on this blog. We are people who prefer to stick to the issues and not do foul language and name calling. Anyone who has an opinion or comment can state it without being subjected to abuse.
My apologies to all of you. I was having major internet access interference when posting my MONETARY POLICY SUBTERFUGE comment, and did not know each attempt had been successful. Shame on my faux pas. Still, good info, and a harbinger of a power-play gone amok if it succeeds. Apparently, Republican Rep. Ron Paul (no friend of Bush Reptiles), is pushing the "Sunshine in Monetary Policy Act" to force the Fed to resume reporting data on the M3 money supply, precisely what it is trying to hide. Worth it, I think, to urge our own US Reps to co-sponsor, or otherwise support the bill before it's too late for the middle-class tier of the economy.
Posted by Idagrannie on March 29, 2006 at 02:21 PM
And that shouldn't surprise us. We are talking about people here, human beings that are trying to make their lives and the lives of their children better. In most cases, they are running from horrific environments and circumstances. Their hope is their motivation. Take away a humans hope and you might as well put them down.
Look, we for the most part are here by the grace of God and by our own dumb luck. Our ancestors, in some cases, may have earned that. We for the most part, didn't. We need to appreciate fully, how aboslutely blessed we are to have been born here. That should engender compassion, not self interest.
We could do ourselves a real favor as a nation to display and show the globe, that as a nation, we are compassionate first, not somekind of imperialistic, homophobic, superpower, hellbent on serving our interests first.
So the whole point of this blog is to bash Bush?
Posted by LOC on March 29, 2006 at 01:35 PM
No, but pointing out his lying ways isn't bashing. I find it so very funny that you claim to be a democrat, but us pointing out that the President of The United States and Tony Blair, stood in front of the American people on National Television, and lied to THE WORLD that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, and that they [bush/Poodle-Boy] were trying the diplomatic route (after having a meeting in which they agreed there were probably never going to be any Weapons found, and that they were going to go to war anyway no matter what-wasting our National Treasur of Men and Women of the Military and Almost a trillion dollars)is considered "bashing". Where were you when the Republicans spent MILLIONS of American Dollars to discover Clinton lied about a blow-job? Which issue is more important? Our standing in the National Spotlight as liars and Empirical assholes, or whether or not there's someone in the country illegaly picking lettuce? And by the way, if we hadn't spent that trillion dollars on War (what's it good for) we might not have to worry if some "poor wet-back" was getting some medical help or an education.
Not to mention you never discuss the reasons these people are here. We have raped the world economy with all of our "free" trade aggrements and have made it impossible for people to earn any living in their own countries, where most of them would rather be if they had a economicly viable option.
I'm sorry, but if it came down to having to feed my family and have a roof over my head, even one that was 5-10 deep, I would walk across the border illegaly without hesitation.
You claim not to be racist, but you fail to note that there are plenty of White folks living in 2 bedroom apartments or as was my case a 1 bedroom house, 5-10 deep.
This is REACTIONARY legislation, it is not proactive, nor does it resolve the issues that prompt illegal immigration.
Fix the root problems and you fix the residual issues such as illegal immigration and yes, even terrorism. This country and many of it's people are only willing to do something when their original actions have unintended (questionable) consequences.
Force other countries, through FAIR Trade agreements, to solve the issues of Human Rights and living wages, then you solve the problems that plaque the nation. Our nation has undermined the economic viability of most other nations all in the name of getting a cheap pair of shoes, or a cheap computer. Well, the cheapness of those "Free" Trade agreements comes with a cost.
It just seems that you would rather Pin the blame on the poor and disenfranchised, rather than the greedy Right wing controlled Business Communities that would rather pay their CEO's multi-million dollar salaries, than pay the workers a living wage.
FIGHT THE ROOT CAUSE. SOLVE THE PROBLEM'S WHERE THEY START.
Unfortunately, Dave, this administration has proven to the entire world that we have a leader who IS hellbent on serving HIS OWN interests first. Americans voted him into office, so the rest of the world has a right to assume that we agree with his policies and support him.
A matter of fact, yes. I recently bought a home in a brand new subdivision that is being built by illegal immigrants.
Posted by LOC on March 29, 2006 at 02:01 PM
So you directly benefit from the cheap labor market (the cost of the house would be tripple to build if you had to pay fair wages).
Hypocrit. If you are buying the house, you have a moral responsibility to make sure it's being built by legal workers.
U.S. ends job-site safety stings to snare illegal immigrants
Associated Press
Mar. 29, 2006 11:45 AM
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has stopped using fake health and safety meetings at job workshops to snag illegal immigrants.
Marcy Forman, director of the Homeland Security Department's Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) divison, said in a letter to the United Food and Commercial Workers union, that it had stopped using sting operations for rounding up undocumented immigrants.
ICE arrested 49 illegal immigrant workers at North Carolina's Seymour Johnson Air Force Base last summer by luring them with a flier to what was advertised as a mandatory Occupational Safety and Health Administration meeting.
Support Human Rights....you are right as far as I am concerned. I strongly feel that the best way to solve a problem is to figure out the root cause (the source) and come up with ways to correct the problem at the source. In the old days, we had foreign policy experts who could do that. For some reason, those people seem to be all gone. I admired Madeleine Albright and wish she could help us now.
Human rights - "If you are buying the house, you have a moral responsibility to make sure it's being built by legal workers."
So you support tightening the borders and getting tough on companies who hire illegals and illegals who cross the border? Since it's my "moral responsibilty" to screen the laborers who built my home, it's your responsibilty to make sure illegals aren't infiltrating our country at record pace.
Do you or do you not support amnesty?
time to leave for my volunteer job. all our kids are on spring break this week so I am doing double duty. bbl
Posted by I_support_human_rights_Why_dont_you on March 29, 2006 at 02:49 PM
Precisely my point. Apparently a subtle approach is sometimes beyond recognition....
As some one said yesterday..."It is just beyond our field of vision"...at least for some members of our society and culture.
There is a whole bunch of smoke being blown about on this issue.
"Hypocrit"
At least spell it right....