"We've seen this playbook before." to quote the last sentence in the original op-ed.

I agree with Thom Hartman's article that corporatists are screwing American workers and frankly some Democratic politicians are complicit by non-action.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/06/03/con06114.html

We saw it in 1986 when we were told by politicians on both sides that amnesty for 3.5 million illegal immigrants and subsequent enforcement of employers and the border would solve the illegal immigration problem. It never happened.

The infrastructure must be put in place first to provide true enforcement and punishment of greedy employers and on the border.

Until them we are just positioning the USA for another wave of illegal immigration.

I don't know who Time magazine polled, but I can tell you it must have been illegals. Everyone I know wants these people to go home. I am sick of watching them wave their Mexican flags. Half of them believe in Reconquista. I'm tired of my tax dollars taking care of their medical and schooling. Most of them do not want to learn English or assimilate. First we sent our jobs to Mexico and now they're coming here to take people's jobs and drive the wages down. Build that fence and build it high and wide.

I'm glad that the Democrats have come out in support of a path to citizenship and have called for increased technology for our border patrol. As you said Tim, sending 11 million people out of the country is just not feasible for a government who couldn't stop the 11 million from coming in in the first place. Right now, Kennedy and McCain are looking to build a "virtual wall," with better equipment and resources available for our border patrol.

That seems to be the logical thing to do right now. I'm okay with giving that a shot right now. However, if that is not successful, I do believe we will eventually need to put up a structure to protect our border and place law enforcement behind it.

One of the things that I'm not hearing from many individuals is that effect of having National Guard troops in their second and third terms in Iraq in relation to this border issue. Gov. Napolitano has ordered National Guard to the border to back up border patrol, however, all National Guard units around the country are supremely undermanned due to many of them being in Iraq. We've got to find a political solution in Iraq and get those troops home, and their help, in addition to the virtual wall, may help us solve this issue. Otherwise, we'll be hearing about this issue again in the near future and then a wall or a fence will be a must.

I have listened to numerous politicians and strategists of both parties say over and over, it is totally unrealistic to think that we can round up anywhere from 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 illegal immigrants and send them back!! Can you even imagine how this would be done? Can You imagine the MONEY it would cost to do this? Money that could be spent on the real problem----securing those borders and bringing charges against CEOs who are milking this situation of cheap labor !

Get Real !

And Indygal, if any Mexican is taking YOUR's or Your friends jobs, I suggest you get some education and go into a higher line of work !

Picking crops and mowing lawns is not all it is cracked up to be.

Marcela Sanchez, a Washington Post syndicated columnist, had this to say last year about immigration:

Immigration Is Not the Only Problem

By Marcela Sanchez
Special to washingtonpost.com
Thursday, May 26, 2005; 10:30 PM

WASHINGTON -- Whether you believe Mexican immigrants help or hurt the United States, there is one incontrovertible truth: work here pays much, much better. A low-skilled Mexican worker in this country earns five to six times as much as he would back home, assuming he or she could find a comparable job.

This truth is so obvious it seems a cliche and yet it remains mostly absent from the current debate on how to reform U.S. immigration. For all the talk around the country of border enforcement, guest worker programs, employer sanctions and driver's licensing restrictions, the sad fact is that none of these "solutions'' addresses the root of the problem -- a persistent and large U.S.-Mexican income disparity.

Even the most comprehensive and progressive immigration reform proposal in years, introduced this month by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., is more concerned with making U.S. immigration policy more humane than dealing with income disparity between the United States and Mexico. The bill crafts a guest worker program -- creating new visa categories and quotas and a secure identification system for employers -- but only provides a vague indication that income disparity might be a problem worth taking on.

[]

To alter income disparity, it is obvious that Mexico must reduce its development gap and raise incomes. What is just as apparent is that Americans do not feel, at least at the moment, that they have a responsibility or even an interest in reducing that gap through investment of money and expertise. They don't feel the same obligation they once felt, say, after World War II for Europe, or that the European Union took on when it bolstered its poorest members. Mexico and the United States may share a 2,000-mile border but their sense of a shared future runs two inches deep.

[]

The administration and Congress are under little pressure to deepen the U.S. commitment to Mexico by a public increasingly fearful and resentful toward immigrants, particularly Mexicans. If anything, such sentiments prolong illegal immigration, in the sense that they distract citizens and leaders alike into thinking that if you put up enough barriers, Mexicans will go away.

Posted by PamB on April 3, 2006 at 01:10 PM

It's not just the money it would cost to deport all of them but what they would be taking out of our economy if we did deport them because they pay billions of dollars of taxes here.

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the National Academy of Sciences found that the average immigrant annually contributes $1,800 more in taxes than he or she receives in benefits. Over their lifetimes, immigrants and their children will each pay an average $80,000 more in taxes than they will receive in local, state and federal benefits combined.

Because states provide most services used by immigrants, they can be net financial losers, while the federal government is typically a net gainer.

Question forr anyone who knows: Wages for so-called "Guest Worker" programs.... are we talking minimum wage?

Anyone know if this has been discussed? Just wondering if the guest-worker program is envisioned as a way for employers to pay less-than minimum wage....

If anyone knows I'd appreciate hearing from you!

Thanks.

My belief is that the politicians put the welfare of America far behind their own self interests. The GOP sees it as corporate welfare for their base and the Democratic party sees it as new voting block and the hell with how it affects low skilled US citizens.

Neither side cares what it does to the country as to standard of living and long term competitiveness. And neither side cares what their constituency wants.

It may not be a scientific poll, but I have not spoken to ANY person on either political side, that isn't totally fed up with the politicians and their pandering on this issue. They want illegal immigration stopped, they are angry with employers, and they want the borders closed.

ALL my Democratic friends are as angry as I am on this.

In response to the minimum wage question:

I believe President Bush's guest worker program idea does not call for a required minimum wage. Ideas in the Senate I believe do call for such a wage.

Posted by KDJ on April 3, 2006 at 02:16 PM

Thanks KDJ, I'm thinking will become a big part of the debate if the guest worker thing actually goes through....

McCain-Kennedy guarantees guest workers all of the same workplace rights as U.S. citizens and, by bringing their employment out into the open, helps to ensure that minimum wage laws, safety standards and the right organize a union will be more consistently and effectively enforced. The bill also doesn’t tie guest workers to a single job, enabling them to leave an employer to seek a better opportunity elsewhere.

My guess is the House bill does none of these things.

To Robson
I totally agree with you. Just ignore Pam B.

Posted by Corinne on April 3, 2006 at 02:27 PM

Thanks Corinne... I guess this goes along with the arguments we're hearing to effect that "Guest worker programs reward illegal behaviour" etc.....

Personally, my gripe is the oft-repeated phrase "Jobs Americans Won't Do."

I wish someone would jump on that one... illegal immigration aside, in my mind there is no job and american won't do!

About the illegal immigration issue:

Fellow Dems, let's try to remember how wedge issues are used to divide America. In my mind, the issue is not the illegal immigrants themselves: it is the politicians and lobbying interests who favor Free (but not fair) Trade, Job Outsourcing, "Low or No" wages or worker protections, who have neglected to give their full attention to port and border security as recommended by the 9/11 commission.

The strategists fanning the flames on this issue would be happy for us all to turn against illegal immigrants as if deporting them and building a wall will do anything to protect American workers and American jobs... these actions are not pro American worker... they are only anti-immigrant!

Furthermore, let's remember that the large numbers of illegal immigrants did not get here overnight, nor will we see a dramatic increase their numbers overnight.

We have time to have a clear-headed debate on this issue and we have time to pass laws that take our border security seriously.

I say border security comes first, and as a result we'll see less illegal immigrants.

In the meantime, let's try and come together around the fact that illegal immigrants who work and pay taxes, are working for America and driving our economy along with the rest of us hard working folks.

Posted by DTree on April 3, 2006 at 02:37 PM

The number one offender who uses that term is Bush, to boost the credibility of a guest worker program.

But there is a certain truth: There are jobs that Americans won't do--because they don't pay enough. If you want Americans to work picking lettuce or work in a garment factory, you need to pay a decent wage and follow the labor laws that are on the books.

Instead, employers have found a way to get around their obligations by employing "undocumented" workers, thus creating a demand for illegal labor.

At bottom, the immigration "crisis" is a supply and demand issue. There is a supply of undocumented workers because there is a demand for it. I think if the government really enforced the laws that are already on the books and worked to reduce the demand for undocumented labor, the supply will decrease (I think there will always be a stream of undocumented immigrants no matter what.) Employers need to pay more for doing the jobs that "Americans won't do."

To Robson
I totally agree with you. Just ignore Pam B.

Posted by indygal on April 3, 2006 at 02:28 PM

uhhh, indy, I totally agree with Robson, that our borders MUST GET CLOSED once and for all, too!

Please re=read my post, you missed something there. I was saying that it is generally agreed by all, that it is totally unreasonable, to think we are going to find and send back or arrest, that many illegal aliens, so our energies and money has to be spent on REAL effective changes! Like Border security !

Everyone in the know is also saying a Fence is ludicruous. They are tunneling under blockades and fences and guards right now!

me thinks your touch of Bigotry and intolerance is more likely to make your decisions, than any real education of the issue. Let me know how someone in Indiana is affected by Illegal Immigrants ! I am willing to bet you have not even seen one with your own eyes!

Fact 1: We have large numbers of inner city blacks that are experiencing very high unemployment rates. It is costing the USA in numerous ways, through direct welfare and indirect social services with higher crime, incarceration, etc.

Fact 2: We have unskilled illegal aliens who are coming into this country undercutting and taking the jobs that are causing much of the situation above. These illegals are good for only a select few greedy business people, and politicians trying to make points for themselves while screwing their constituents.

And then we have political leaders who have the foresight of a baboon telling us that this is good for America. Jeez.

Ok, so now people are blaming illegal immigrants for racism and inner city poverty.

This is wedge issue folks... let's focus on the policies that will:

1) make our ports and borders more secure
2) create jobs for Americans
3) encourage "fair" trade in developing countries so people can support their families without having to cross to Amecia illegally.

OK, say you have no illegal immigrants in this country.... now please explain how you would fix the problem of inner city poverty.

I fail to see how the two issues are connected, but that's just me.

I think Republican politicans could learn from other societies about how to treat guests. In other cultures when a host offers hospitality, he puts the guest before himself.

This White House guest worker talk is nothing more than the usual Rovarian double-speak. It has nothing to do with guests and everything to do with cheap labor.

Even the "guests" have figured it out. They took to the streets to announce that they're not going to be treated like E-bay items that can be auctioned off after 5 years of use. Good for them.

Posted by SandyH on April 3, 2006 at 05:46 PM

yeah, fact of the matter is that we already have a "guest worker program."

It's called a work visa!!!
(only problem is that the employer has to pay a fair wage and taxes...) ;)

The Democratic Party is also out of touch with Americans on the Immigration issue! I was stunned to see only Democrats on Sunday's Talking Heads shows supporting Bush's "Amensty Plan" for "Illegal Immigrants" (That's what they are not "Undocumented Workers") The argument we need to be making is for the Protection of our Borders and the enforcement of current laws on the books... If you hired an "Illegal Immigrant" you broke the law and should be fined.

Once the jobs for "Illegal Immigrants" dry up we won't need to deport them. Only then can we start the discussion on a real "Guest Worker" program for workers who wish to follow the law and are not "Illegal Immigrants"
Americans are Angry at Washington over the failure of our Immigration Policy and we are all aware it's a failure on both sides. If the Democrats in the beltway want to side with Bush on this issue and then come to us for donations and support at election time they may be in for a rude awakening...

This party is out of touch with the vast majority of the middle class on this issue. I do not understand how the Democrats can criticize the Rescumlicans for waging war on the middle class from above by cutting benefits and shifting the tax burden in relative terms from the rich and then turn around an embrace a program that wages war on the middle class from below by savaging wages by embracing the importation of cheap labor. This is yet another indication of the emerging dictatorship of capital.

The truth is both parties are water carriers for Corporate America.

As a life-long Democrat and former county chairman I am leaving the party and will vote for third party candidates until this party remembers it's New Deal roots.

Since when has it become liberal to savage the middle class by embracing cheap foriegn labor. And how is this different than exporting jobs overseas.

And please, no more nonsense about how these people are taking jobs no American will do. I have seen them working as masons, stone masons, carpenters, roofers, concrete workers, drywall and painters. Skilled labor that used to pay a living wage. This is straight nonsense produced by conservative stink tanks and it pains me to see Democratic leaders parroting this nonesense.

I and my friends and even my enemies are against a guest worker program. We need to improve border security. As for the ILLEGALS paying taxes where??. They are illegal the only taxes they pay would be sales tax. They certainly don't pay income tax. However, they certainly benefit from food stamps, free medical care etc. I don;t have free medical care or food stamps. I would love to have medical care but can't afford it. BUt the people of BOTH parties in washington have FORGOTTEN about the American people who actually keep the country going. They are more concerned with other countries, big business and themselves. A VERY SELFISH GROUP OF PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON TODAY. The Anerican people need to remember this in NOV. and choose the BEST person for the job not chose along party lines.

To PamB

I totally agree with you - just ignore indygal :)

Posted by neonewdealer on April 3, 2006 at 06:22 PM This is yet another indication of the emerging dictatorship of capital.

That's the crux of it and that fix is generations away even if trade policy and labor policy is changed to promote it.

Those who ignore free trade don't want to solve the problem.

Those who ignore corporate greed don't want to fix the problem.

Those who ignore Mexican wages don't want to end the problem.

Posted by surprised on April 3, 2006 at 06:57 PM They are illegal the only taxes they pay would be sales tax. They certainly don't pay income tax. However, they certainly benefit from food stamps, free medical care etc. I don;t have free medical care or food stamps. I would love to have medical care but can't afford it.

Here are the eligibility requirements for foodstamps starting with ...

Everyone in your household must have or apply for a Social Security number and be in one of the following categories:

McCarthy used to just make stuff too - it is an old playbook

DTree....The first solution to inner city poverty is that unskilled US citizens must have ready access to jobs with reasonable wages.

But 20 Million illegals are taking those jobs because they will work their butts off as pseudo slaves/illegal immigrants at sub par wages. They have to work hard as the alternative is deportation.

Posted by Robson on April 3, 2006 at 07:30 PM

Let's just agree to disagree. The first solution to inner city poverty is for America to take a good hard look at the issue of racism in this country.

Getting rid of illegal immigrants will do nothing to fix inner city poverty.

...That is, if you are really concerned with fixing inner city poverty, and not just concerned with it "costing the USA in numerous ways, through direct welfare and indirect social services with higher crime, incarceration, etc.

But, if it's illegal immigration that really gets your goat, then you need to focus more attention on what causes illegal immigration:

This has to be said:

Half of the Democratic politicians are bought off too. (DLC)

Dtree....Agree then, we'll have to disagree.

"Getting rid of illegal immigrants will do nothing to fix inner city poverty."

Unlike what Bush and his many greedy cohorts say, there is a declining number of low skill/menial jobs in the country. If unskilled American citizens have these opportunities taken from them by uninvited illegals, then aside from going out and getting a skill how are they going to get a job? That's the first step out of poverty.

I agree with your 3 bullet points to an extent (maybe 65%-70%). Politicians are looking out for their self interests only. And Clinton, by signing NAFTA made me take another look at the Democratic Party and whether they are as pro-worker as they used to be. BTW their current stand on pro-illegals only proves to me they aren't.

pee-wee.....Agreed. If anyone thinks that one party or the other is immune from graft then they need to get a grip on reality. Big corporate money will play both sides of the aisle when necessary and both sides will have their palms up.
This is especially true since unions are almost an extinct entity, thanks to the last 4 Presidents and their affinity to globalism, CAFTA, NAFTA, WTO, multi-nationals, etc..

I'm worried that American workers have lost what was their main political support...the Democratic Party.

Posted by Robson on April 3, 2006 at 10:55 PM I'm worried that American workers have lost what was their main political support...the Democratic Party.

I wonder about that myself sometimes

Don't be suckered in Democrats!
The whole raising of the issue of immigration is nothing more than a Karl Rove PLOY! It's a smokescreen, a misdirection, a totally insincere attempt at changing the national dialogue.

Don't let them get away with it!!!!!

STAY ON MESSAGE!!!!!

There are two critical issues in this country right now:
1. The Bush Iraq disaster
2. The rampant Republican corruption at all levels.

The republicans created the immigration discussion for two reasons, to cement their base and to take the heat off.

This is it. This is their play. This is their election year strategy. It's going down and it's going down right now. It's ALL manipulation and gamesmanship.

DON'T LET THEM CHANGE THE SUBJECT!!!
DON'T LET THEM TELL YOU WHAT TO TALK ABOUT!!! DON'T LET THEM OFF THE HOOK EVER!!!

I live on the Texas-Mexico border, I have for 31 years. The illegal crossing has been here for all of my life, yet not as public as today. I cannot tell you of a day where we did not see illegal boys, girls, women with children asking for money in a drive thru. Walking the streets hoping to find a dollar. This is something that our country has dealt with for centuries. As a Mexican-American woman I am torn. I feel that creating a wall to "keep them out" is inhumane and it would not work. What you need to understand is, these people are desperate for work, money, a better life for their families. How humane is it to cross a river not knowing what you may run into? We must do our best to talk to our neighbors to the south and help the government keep thier citizens at home. Or we must change the "assistance programs" in this country. I have seen what this "free ride" has created.... an open door for illegal migration. We must try and assist these individuals by creating time periods for medicaid, food stamps, etc and educate them. Teach them the language, provide classes for GED, parenting classes, etc.. this in the long run will help these families become hard working, tax paying individuals which is what we all would like to see. Too many families know the benefits of giving birth to children in this country, too many families are provided with too much while not working a day in their lives. This is the reason for the constant migration. Let's help our migrants by making them help themselves.
I come from a migrant family where assistance was never an option. Today my educated father sees the fruit of their labor with an educated family consisting of doctors, lawyers, engineers, speech therapists, etc... That is the American dream, that is what we must teach our immigrants. We invite you into our country, but work for it and make your voice heard in a positive manner.

Actually the United States does need to secure the border and the best way to do that would be with the military as a back-up to the border control. This isn't intolerance, what is intolerance is when the president of Mexico Vicente Fox said "Americans should be thankful, Mexicans are doing the jobs that not even blacks would". Now that is intolerance and racist and to this no apology was ever made which is rude. We have to stop allowing so many people to keep coming into the United States the wrong illegal way. Jobs are being stolen from the middle-class and the poor. No more amnesty for illegal aliens!
The law is the law and it's wrong to reward people for breaking the law and it's also a slap in the face to people who moved to the United States but did it the right and legal way. I also think Vicente Fox owes African Americans a big apology for his offensive comments. It seems like these days Lou Dobbs on CNN is one of the few who is in touch with what the majority of Americans are thinking on this topic, just look at the results on the CNN polls over the past two years on Lou Dobbs Tonight.

Also, the Mexican government has to start being more responsible because they aren't doing anything to lift their own people out of poverty which is wrong and it's also wrong how big companies in the United States are taking advantage of the situation. Often times below poverty level wages are being paid which isn't right.

I also think Vicente Fox owes African Americans a big apology for his offensive comments.

He did - almost a year ago.

The law is the law and it's wrong to reward people for breaking the law and it's also a slap in the face to people who moved to the United States but did it the right and legal way.

The "guest worker" program is nothing more than a work visa - they all already have jobs - they all already qualify for a work visa - they wouldn't get citizenship ahead of anyone else.

Posted by garfisher on April 4, 2006 at 12:52 AM

Heil Hitler

I find it sad that the Democratic party no longer chooses to represent the US citizens who work for a living. The Democratic party embraced free trade agreements that exported US jobs. Now they continue in that new tradition by supporting the continued importation of labor to decrease US wages and diminish job opportunities.

I find it rather crass to suggest that all US citizens can educate or work their way out of low skill level jobs. I also find it crass to suggest that US citizens are too good to do these jobs. US citizens are not genetically superior to foreign citizens nor are foreign citizens genetically superior to US citizens. I'm not interested in creating an untouchable class of foreign workers to be treated as less than human. US citizens should be allowed to work in low skill level jobs and be treated with dignity and paid fairly.

The mass importation of foreign citizens reduces wages and job opportunities for US citizens. Massive importation of illegal aliens who have only a high school education or less causes a labor surplus. US citizens with a high school education or less can no longer participate in the workforce because they can't not find a job due to increased competition or they can't afford to work for below subsistence level wages. It is unforgivable to fix the labor market to the deteriment of the working poor in the US.

Refusing to enforce immigration laws and rewarding law breakers with amnesty, legalization, or guestworker programs is only about providing cheap labor for disreputable employers engaged in illegal activities.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back206.pdf

I don't think we can solve the world's poverty problems through our immigration policy. Instead we need to look at our trade policies that benefit multi-national corporations and hurt US citizens as well as foreign citizens. We also need to offer advice, guidance, and aid to foreign countries that have massive problems with poverty.

The United States can not hold all the people who want to become US citizens to escape poverty in their own countries. Importing poverty from the developing world just puts the US underclass deeper into poverty and hopelessness. It does very little to help the massive poverty problems of the developing world and does much to harm the poor in the USA. We are in fact full.

Sorting Through Humanitarian Clashes in Immigration

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/cgi-bin/showarticle.pl?articleID=671&terms=

Are all illegals here for a better life? Don,t think so!
Go to mexica-movement.org (It just might change your point of view on this topic)Wake up America

Illegal immigrants are in this country because we want them here. We want the cheap labor but we do not want to pay the taxes American workers require. Government has turned their backs for decades to insure this supply of cheap labor is maintained. We are all guilty because we buy the houses they build and we use them in many ways. They can't complain about anything because they are illegal therefore we have them over a barrel. Allowing them to stay here for several years and work is the same thing. How do we know when their time is up? Who checks, what happens then? It's a joke. If we want them to do our work, they should get the benefits from it just like anybody else or Latinos should use their economic and political power, and it is substantial, to get what the deserve. What Congress is doing now is dancing around the issue to try to calm the public but keep the cheap labor.It is a slap in the face to all Mexicans. If the Latino community sticks together, they have more power than they can imagine.

hmmm.... looks like Rove unleashed the troll-loggers big time on this issue... i don't think i've seen this many republican bloggers fomenting dissent since the gay marriage debate.

sheesh indeed.

Dems, let's keep up the momentum... the GOP is running scared and this is their last ditch effort to change the debate! Stay on point and we'll take back congress in november!!! Dems are the onky ones who can address ALL the issues and get our country back on track!

You need a talking point on immigration? Try this one:

My message to the party is that the bill from Kennedy and Macain I think will drive more democrats over to the republicans in november. The american worker is losing jobs to overseas factories and outsorceing and now they want to import more aliens for jobs. How about the americans at the lower end of the pay scale they cant work for the slave wages the the employers pay to these people. We have alot of poor people here too, that can't find decent paying jobs. I think you a making a big mistake as far as the November election is concerned.I sure don't agree with this bill and I don't think Time Mag. is correct either. shorty

I'm tired of people over-simplifing the jobs illegal immigrants are taking as lawn cutting and dishwashing--they also take construction jobs, meat cutting jobs and thousands of others.
And to let employers off the hook because "nobody else will fill these jobs" is fallacious. Maybe nobody will take the jobs at the cut-rate pay employers can now get away with offering because illegals won't complain, or unionize or ask for a raise.
On another point: I think we should change the law about a child born here automatically being citizen; if I were to rob a bank, and give the money to my kids, you bet the authorities would prevent them from profiting from a crime, and seize the money. "Oh, but you're punishing the child," people say. No, the parent is punishing them by offering them something (citizenship) that was gotten by way of an illegal act.
Lastly, to say that some of us are in favor of changing things once we (or our parents or grandparents) got here is also misleading. My grandparents came here legally; I'm still in favor of 'legal' immigration (how could I not be?)

I'm a middle of the road blue collar democrat. my famili has supported the democratic party since 1928 when al smith ran for president.
But I see the stance the leaders of our party are taking on this issue are saying someone like me who plays the game by the rules that i don't matter.The party will lose middle of the road democrats like myself which will be a shame.

just another quick note i wrote my 2 california senators about this issue. Boxer responded with a nice reply but fienstien never bothered with a responce to a loyal democrat.

I'm totally in agreement with this post, but I must ask, why is Sen. McCain not able to gather the necessary 60 votes in the Senate to support the "Guest-Worker" program?
Which democrats demurred? Any?
I hope not. I'll check later.

I would like to add this:
In the 1980's and thereabouts the wave of Irish and Italian migration to the U.S was called a "plague"; the same was said of the Greeks, the Jews, the Chinese.. It seems that we always forget where we come from, as a country.
Those immigrants built this land. They built our railroads. They built New York City, Los Angeles, Houston, Boston. Immigrants now are the same as immigrants then; hard working, proud, and grateful. Let's not forget that. Let's not forget that St Patrick's Day was first celebrated by millions of illegal Irish. I dont hear anything about THEIR flag waving. It is extremely hypocritical to hate immigrants now, ask them to leave under false economic pretexts; if someone asked your family to leave when they boarded a boat from Europe three generations ago, destined to work for peanuts and occupy the slums, all for the glory of living in the U.S, you would be hurt and insulted too. I hope race is not the issue here, but I fear it is.

I meant the 1890's.

If you leave this great party over this stupid wedge issue,you were never a Dem to begin with!

I'll tell you who made it a wedge issue, the limo liberals and the far right who aren't affected by illegals. They live in an ivory tower or gated community and have lost touch with the reality of it all.

Centrist Democrats and moderate Republicans should get our own party because neither side represents our interests anymore. It's all about globalism and power to the party.

DTree I agree that the Republicans have been worthless on border security and port security since 9-11. I only wish I had confidence that the Democratic Party would take the lead on this. Instead it appears to be supporting exactly what Bush wants.

the difference is those italian and other immigrants entered the country leagaly. and what do you say to the immigrants who followed the rules and sought to obtain citzenship thru the proper channels?" thank you for playing by the rules now too bad F U"

Here's another difference...the Irish, the Chinese etc. tried their best to assimilate, learn the language and embrace their new country. A generation (or two) ago, there was nobody more proud of their country than an immigrant with new citizenship papers. That acquisition of national identity is what the 'melting pot' is all about. We all come from different backgrounds, but we are all Americans. Where is that pride with illegal immigrants? Nonexistant.

I just hope that people keep in mind the operative word here is illegal. We need to have some immigration controls for health and safety issues. There will always be those sanctions who will take advantage of a good thing and use if for evil. If people want to enter following the rules, then fine. If not, I guess I have to agree that they should not enter. If they wish to come here and benefit, then there is some accountability and responsibility that goes with any privilege. For people to come here and not be accountable or have any obligation to their benefactor, then that is wrong. According to world statistics, Mexico has the highest rate of remittance from emmigrant workers in the world and the U.S. has the highest influx of mexican immigrants. We have to keep a balance on this. If people wish to enter legally and citizentry that is here is safe-guarded, then fine. If they wish to come here to rape for profit and then leave, then no, they should not come.
Oh Joy

I just hope that people keep in mind the operative word here is illegal. We need to have some immigration controls for health and safety issues. There will always be those sanctions who will take advantage of a good thing and use if for evil. If people want to enter following the rules, then fine. If not, I guess I have to agree that they should not enter. If they wish to come here and benefit, then there is some accountability and responsibility that goes with any privilege. For people to come here and not be accountable or have any obligation to their benefactor, then that is wrong. According to world statistics, Mexico has the highest rate of remittance from emmigrant workers in the world and the U.S. has the highest influx of mexican immigrants. We have to keep a balance on this. If people wish to enter legally and citizentry that is here is safe-guarded, then fine. If they wish to come here to rape for profit and then leave, then no, they should not come.
Oh Joy

I can't believe it....Randi Rhodes, Lou Dobbs, and right wing radio agreeing that illegal immigration will obliterate the US middle class.

Also that the employers of illegals should be literally hung out to dry for it.

Well, Hello Dems,

It's about time I heard some fighting Dems out there writing about the total Bull our party is delivering on this issue or lack thereof.

Just for the sake of it. Remember Illegal is illegal, that means on both the immigrant and, more importantly the Company who hires them. This should be out right treason in a post 911 world.

Also, to pay taxes you need an SSN number so if you are illegal and pay taxes, well oops, there you go again, breaking the law cause illegal means no SSN number.

Next, if you are illegal and have a child born in the United States, there you go, an SSN!!! Wow, now you can apply for medicad and food stamps for your kid and by the way the more you have, the more you get, get it? These babies, by the way are tearing down the US flags and raising Mexican flags at our schools, parading in our streets and Yes, being educated all on our tax paying asses. I don't see those kids carrying the US flag and asking for their relatives to become legal or to get Amnesty. These people want open borders. Get It!!

And no, if you think giving these people more financial support in the form of Public welfare, and family education and all that jazz is the answer, then why hasn't it already worked for all the Americans that are currently on Public Assistance.

Pretty soon, our window of opportunity will run out. Another terrorist attack is coming. Illegal or no, we will all be effected. In the meantime we are all being so, side tracked on this issue while nothing is being done!

I by the way, as many of you know, am a breed of many races as well as married to an Hispanic, with children, and Hispanic grandchildren. That said, to be called a bigot, save that word for someone else. I have also worked for 15 years in one of those jobs "Americans won't do", and am appalled that my hispanic blood ties would again be summed up with such a racist remark as this. Not all hispanics are that ignorant to let this remark slide.

Immigration should be respected, if it is done "legally" Magic word? No, I don't think so.

I resent that my husband, children and grandchildren, all Americans by the way, are looked upon by other non Hispanic's as they are automatically illegal and resented or treated less than human because of it, and believe me folks it happens. Both in public as well as in the work place.

So, I say out with the illegals. It's cheaper to deport, then to pay for their public assistance over the years. We already gave them Amnesty in the 1980's and all we got is more illegals. In with the Legalization process that is already in place. Wait your turn and follow the rules. Bottom line.

Enforce our laws Leadership, and take those Companies who hire them to task for Treason against this Country as rightly they are.

As this Country is governed by the people, for the people. Meaning Americans.

I'm done.

Robson,

This might mean a new political group developing in our nation that is neither far right wing nor far left.

It may be the American middle class!! Who by the way better stand up and take their turn before it is to late.

Cause the Dems sure ain't doing the job for us no more.

8 out of ten democrats I have talked to (48 of 60) tend to agree with tom tancredo, and want all illegal immigrants prosecuted and sent back! This is only a wedge issue for the 15 % of active vocal democrats who think otherwise. The rest of us will cast our ballots accordingly. I've voted democratic for 40 years,but will not vote for any democrat who wants to allow all the illegals to remain. Even worse some here in Iowa even wanted to allow illegal aliens to get a drivers lisc. Another wanted the state to purchase $ 200,000 of spanish language books for their local library since they couldnt read english. We didnt do these things for poles,germans,japanese, chinese,etc. etc. The Bush proposal is another ploy for big business.

AmericanWmn...I can't tell you how impressed I am when I hear and see successful people of Mexican heritage, here legally, speaking fluent English, joining our culture, and fully taking part in the American dream.

But I can't tell you how outraged it makes me to see millions of illegals marching with their Mexican flag demanding that we Americans MUST accept these invaders.

It ain't going to happen but it will hurt many people like yourself that want to be American in America.

I think the Dems are out of touch with their base in immigration. The McCain-Kennedy bill will not bring out the faithful. The faintest whiff of "amnesty" or "guest worker" will keep non-hispanic low-income voters, Blacks and union members home on election day '06.

What part about illegal immigration don't you understand. Supporting illegal immigration is wrong plain and simple.

ILLEGAL immigration and legal immigration are not the same. We welcome over 1 million legal new immigrants a year. Those people waiting and processing legally have been fooled. Break the law and get rewarded. Follow the law and be a chump.

Why do we have such lax border security as to allow millions of illegal aliens into this country? Who benefits: Number one --Corporate America. They get to keep your wages low by exploiting illegals. According to the Pew center on Hispanic Studies, the biggest losers due to illegal immigration are recent legal Hispanic legal immigrants. Chumped again.

It is estimated that for a quart of strawberries that paying legal minimum wages would increase picking costs from 12 cents to 25 cents. Why do we exploit illegals to save 12 cents?

Why do we support a racist set of organizations to promote their un American agenda? Who are we talking about--La Raza (The Race), LuLAC, Univision (Jorge Ramos) and other Latino organizations that 1) support the reconquista, the reqconquest of America by Latinos
2) Support the subversion of US law by supporting illegal immigration 3) Support the Latinization of America within 30 years

Why aren't these racist groups clamoring for Chinese, Poles, and all others who want to come into this country illegally? Because they are not the Race?

Why is it Mexico stops illegal immigration into their country on their southern border and encourages it to our country by handing out maps, guides and the support of Mexican army troops to assist these invaders?

30 per cent of prison space is occupied by foreigners a majority of them illegal aliens.

Our schools, hospitals, and social infrastructure are to the breaking point in areas where illegal immigration is high. A number of hospitals have declared bankruptcy in the southwestern US.

Why are we forced to accommodate Spanish speakers? Why not Chinese, Polish, Russian and so on and so forth? What makes Latinos so special above everyone else? If we are going to allow millions of illegals in why not let everyone in?

The Catholic Church is counting on the illegal invasion to increase its church membership (Saw it on EWTN. Fr. Neuhaus was the speaker). Why don't they work to stop overpopulation and poverty in the countries where they dominate? Seems like those countries are all failures and ours is a success. I don't want this country to look like Latin America, do you? Anyone heard of the fifth column? Look it up and see what it means.

According to several places I have looked there apparently is no successful guest worker program in the world. It is an idea that is always fraught with problems. We have 12- 20 million illegals to deal with now. Let's not add more fuel to the fire by adding a guest worker program until we know we can succeed.

All illegal aliens should be immediately required to register so that we know who and where these people are. . Why in the world is a legal document (passport) required to visit Mexico and millions of law breakers are here without a single legal document and do just fine. Apparently the punishment for entering Mexico illegally is 6 years in prison. Why don’t the laws support the 280 million legal Americans?

And now we have thousands of illegals waving other countries flags demanding to be treated like American citizens. What the heck is going on in this country?

Let's be Americans first by securing our borders and ports. Those who break the laws -employers and illegal aliens should be punished with the laws that are already on the books.

Our country should be sending economic development troops to these poor countries instead of invading Iraq. Help these people help themselves. We can not accept everyone.

PS. I am a card carrying Democrat. But I am an American first. Stop Illegal Immigation Now.

The big piece of the picture that is being missed is the fact that they see Americans as Europeans intruding on their land. That is the reason why you see all illegals waving the Mexican flag. People from either party needs to start seeing it the way that it is. These illegal people went out into droves protesting and all the while carrying Mexican flags. Did anyone actually READ what was on the signs they carried?

This is going to turn into a huge mess, and it has nothing to do with wages. We need to secure our borders and kick the people who don't want to assimilate into American way of life OUT!!!

I am appalled and amazed at how it seems the Black community is simply pushed aside in so many areas of decisions being made in the U.S. today. I am particulary amazed at how the party that is supposed to be for us is doing little to absolutely nothing to address the needs of African Americans and blue collar whites. But in this case I am speaking more specifically for African Americans. It seems that you are all dancing around not the May, but the "Political Poll." It is almost like you are blind to what is actually going on around you and what the true feelings are about illegal immigration. Where all of these conflicting polls are coming from, I can't even imagine. Do you really think you are expressing the true feelings of born in the USA; here through generations; LEGAL; tax paying (when not even getting a fare shake educationally, economically or socially) African Americans. Or is it just that you are pushing us to the side and think that you already have our vote in a nutshell.

It is constantly stated that the illegal (undocumented is double speak) immigrants are only taking jobs that Americans do not want. How crazy! You mean to tell me that suddenly all of the Blacks working in parking lots, doing construction, working as waiters, bus boys and short order cooks, landscapers, cement layers suddenly looked up one day and said oh the illegals are here we don't need these jobs any more, we'd rather be unemployed and homeless or on the edge of it. We are not ignorant. We are aware that they are taking jobs at a lower rate of pay, and therefore bringing down (or at least stifiling)the rates of pay for others. But, there was just a report out on the conditions of Black men in America. Their rates of unemployment run into the 50 percents and then some. How is this okay? And housing. Yes, we are aware (because they came into our neighborhoods first) that they can live together in large groups and pool their money to pay rents. It would have been impossible for African Americans to do that. In a private home yes, but in apartments, no. You had a lease, when the lease expired you renewed your lease or you moved. There were stringent rules on how many people could abode in a resident. There are so many rules that have been put aside for them that it is both ridiculous and insulting.

All Blacks get after years of Slavery, Jim Crowe, last hired-first fired, redlining, bad press, unjust prison sentences, bad schools and overpriced bad housing is ignored, undermined, and practically told to be patient, yet again. It is insulting considering all of the above(and then some)for you to turn a blind eye and ear and assume that it is no problem to watch our tax dollars go to house; feed; hospitalize; give special programs to people who are here illegally. We see that they take summer jobs and after school jobs from our children; take lower paying jobs (from people who usually worked two or more of those jobs to support their families [yet suddenly "hard working" seems to only be used in print lately to describe the illegal immigrants]). Add to that the fact that a lot of these same people are predjudiced and arrogant toward Blacks.

Come on we are not even quite 40 years into voter rights for African Americans and yet, you expect us to be pleased and accept with open arems a new people who are getting away with all sort of crime (false papers; false and fraudulent identification; fradulent use of social security numbers, be they made up or stolen) and violence; who evade rules right and left (putting up food stands where they well feel like it. Food licenses anyone?); evade taxes; and ARE HERE ILLEGALLY.

Does the Democratic party even pay attention or ever listen to African American radio or read African American newspapers or look at their opinion polls. You will find that, no, overall we are certainly not please with the route politicians seem to be taking to give amnesty to the illegal immigrants that are already here and to have a guest worker program. We are not pleased with the affirmative action that we fought and marched for with our blood, sweat and tears, be given on a silver platter to aliens, yet our civil rights have been constantly being stepped on and down played. We are treated wosre than step children, yet this country was built on our backs.

It is shameful. My sign is name is such because, my, my, my how soon you all seem to forget. But we (except for maybe Clarence Thomas types out there) remember.

You Democrats need to get up with the pulse of the African American community. I have always voted Democrat, but my mind is changing very fast. I never thought I would consider voting Republican, but I am seeing a dull dividing line between the parties. This is either because the Democrats have become a really chicken party or their ideals have just changed. Some of the very Republican politicians you call to the carpet for their opinions against okaying illegal immigration are beginning to look worth studying. Maybe a candidate from a third party would be an even better consideration. (Can't seem to be able to do much worse.

I am only expressing here the feelings on immigration, but there are many, many other scathingly oppressive events that have occured toward African Americans that are not being addressed. Dr. King and other civil right leaders that have passed must be turning flips in there graves.

For Shame!

I am appalled and amazed at how it seems the Black community is simply pushed aside in so many areas of decisions being made in the U.S. today. I am particulary amazed at how the party that is supposed to be for us is doing little to absolutely nothing to address the needs of African Americans and blue collar whites. But in this case I am speaking more specifically for African Americans. It seems that you are all dancing around not the May, but the "Political Poll." It is almost like you are blind to what is actually going on around you and what the true feelings are about illegal immigration. Where all of these conflicting polls are coming from, I can't even imagine. Do you really think you are expressing the true feelings of born in the USA; here through generations; LEGAL; tax paying (when not even getting a fare shake educationally, economically or socially) African Americans. Or is it just that you are pushing us to the side and think that you already have our vote in a nutshell.

It is constantly stated that the illegal (undocumented is double speak) immigrants are only taking jobs that Americans do not want. How crazy! You mean to tell me that suddenly all of the Blacks working in parking lots, doing construction, working as waiters, bus boys and short order cooks, landscapers, cement layers suddenly looked up one day and said oh the illegals are here we don't need these jobs any more, we'd rather be unemployed and homeless or on the edge of it. We are not ignorant. We are aware that they are taking jobs at a lower rate of pay, and therefore bringing down (or at least stifiling)the rates of pay for others. But, there was just a report out on the conditions of Black men in America. Their rates of unemployment run into the 50 percents and then some. How is this okay? And housing. Yes, we are aware (because they came into our neighborhoods first) that they can live together in large groups and pool their money to pay rents. It would have been impossible for African Americans to do that. In a private home yes, but in apartments, no. You had a lease, when the lease expired you renewed your lease or you moved. There were stringent rules on how many people could abode in a resident. There are so many rules that have been put aside for them that it is both ridiculous and insulting.

All Blacks get after years of Slavery, Jim Crowe, last hired-first fired, redlining, bad press, unjust prison sentences, bad schools and overpriced bad housing is ignored, undermined, and practically told to be patient, yet again. It is insulting considering all of the above(and then some)for you to turn a blind eye and ear and assume that it is no problem to watch our tax dollars go to house; feed; hospitalize; give special programs to people who are here illegally. We see that they take summer jobs and after school jobs from our children; take lower paying jobs (from people who usually worked two or more of those jobs to support their families [yet suddenly "hard working" seems to only be used in print lately to describe the illegal immigrants]). Add to that the fact that a lot of these same people are predjudiced and arrogant toward Blacks.

Come on we are not even quite 40 years into voter rights for African Americans and yet, you expect us to be pleased and accept with open arems a new people who are getting away with all sort of crime (false papers; false and fraudulent identification; fradulent use of social security numbers, be they made up or stolen) and violence; who evade rules right and left (putting up food stands where they well feel like it. Food licenses anyone?); evade taxes; and ARE HERE ILLEGALLY.

Does the Democratic party even pay attention or ever listen to African American radio or read African American newspapers or look at their opinion polls. You will find that, no, overall we are certainly not please with the route politicians seem to be taking to give amnesty to the illegal immigrants that are already here and to have a guest worker program. We are not pleased with the affirmative action that we fought and marched for with our blood, sweat and tears, be given on a silver platter to aliens, yet our civil rights have been constantly being stepped on and down played. We are treated wosre than step children, yet this country was built on our backs.

It is shameful. My sign is name is such because, my, my, my how soon you all seem to forget. But we (except for maybe Clarence Thomas types out there) remember.

You Democrats need to get up with the pulse of the African American community. I have always voted Democrat, but my mind is changing very fast. I never thought I would consider voting Republican, but I am seeing a dull dividing line between the parties. This is either because the Democrats have become a really chicken party or their ideals have just changed. Some of the very Republican politicians you call to the carpet for their opinions against okaying illegal immigration are beginning to look worth studying. Maybe a candidate from a third party would be an even better consideration. (Can't seem to be able to do much worse.

I am only expressing here the feelings on immigration, but there are many, many other scathingly oppressive events that have occured toward African Americans that are not being addressed. Dr. King and other civil right leaders that have passed must be turning flips in their graves.

For Shame!

If we want to try to stop illigal imigration, it has to be done with the people that give them jobs knowing they are illigal. You can put fences, hire thousands of boder patrolmen and you can't stop it if we put them to work.When someone hires an illigal, they should be the one who pays the price, instead we send them back to return again. If you don't do this, you simply open everything up and have no illegals.You can't have it both ways and that is what this MCCain Bill tries to do. Calm the public and keep the cheap labor.

I don't hear all this noise about the higher paying jobs leaving this country with Bush's blessing,so don't try to use the loss of jobs excuse and say you will switch parties. If anyone would continue to be screwed by these Republicans on every issue only because the immigration issue isn't to his liking, he has bigger problems.

I'm sorry to say this but if this is the direction the Democratic party is going, I plan on voting Republican for the rest of my life. I have always voted Democratic but this decision does not make sense to me. I have other friends here that have to work hard in order to keep their green card status and to get work visa's, why is it different for these people. I know there are 11 million and that is a huge number to work with but damn, if we did it right to start with we wouldn't be in this mess. I believe we should be fining the hell out of these companies hiring illegal immigrants, getting some money back. I'm sick of paying taxes to pay for illegal immigrants to get school and medical when I'm struggling to pay for my own. Yesterday I listened to someone that thought we should give them free student loans and grants for college. Damn, I'm struggling to find enough money to put my own kid through college, now I'm going to pay for someone else's kid that doesn't even belong in this country! I believe the Democrat's better change their ways quickly or there won't be much of a party left.

There seem to be problems with the Time Magazine poll mentioned in the post. Click my name for one discussion, and more here.

Important people in both parties are out of touch with the American people when it comes to immigration.

I don't know anyone who supports the idea that illegal immigrants should be given the opportunity to remain in the United States. Nor do I know of anyone who doesn't recognize the fact that illegal immigrants have take jobs away from Americans and at the same time help to lower wages across the board in mnay industries and trades.

The construction industry in North carolina is one. You can't find a crew that isn't made up of illegals who are working for a lot less than the American who held that job five or ten years ago.

Too bad illegals can't compete for elected office...then we see some real immigration regorm.

Three illegal immigrant laborers arrested in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania They were brought in by a North Carolina company who was building a drug store.

One hundred twenty people believed to be illegal immigrants arrested at a WalMart distribution center construction site in Schuykill County Pennsylvania.

A Texas company gets the contract to install fiber optic conduit in the Pittsburgh area. They bring in illegal immigrants to do the work.

Does this sound like the illegal immigrants are only taking jobs that people here won’t take?

Illegal immigrants are being exploited by contractors to keep their labor cost down so they can under bid local companies and this takes work away from local people.

Why are we not punishing the people who hire these illegal immigrants? If there were no jobs there would be no illegals!

I will not vote for any Democrat who supports a guest worker program or allowing illegals to remain in this country

I am a mexican student in the US. I'm not illegal, I was born in California and I think that this bill was proposed as something that would be very helpful. Instead this bill has been very contriversial and has made many people angry. I do not agree that illeagal immigrants should be allowed to work here and then be asked to leave. That's very unfair to them. I also disagree with what people say that hispanics are taking all the good jobs, thats not true! Without hispanics or other immigrants who would clean the bathrooms in public places? Who would do all the dirty jobs for very little money? I don't know what you call a good job, but if thats your idea of one i'm sure they'll have no problem trading with you.

I am totally against any continued support of ILLEGAL ALIENS i refuse to GIVE UP speaking ENGLISH. I will not be forced into speaking SPANGLISH...nor support the over run of MEXICANS sucking medicare and wefare services for all my ancestors who fought and died for AMERICA.

Until the democratic party remembers who their traditional core is they will continue to wonder why they keep losing elections. Clinton sold us every working man and woman in the country down the road with nafta. Now they are at it again giving amnesty to ILLEGAL aliens.

Is anyone else ASTOUNDED that the ICE routinely gives 24 hours (or more) notice that it will be inspecting jobsites?
"Golly, we just can't FIND any illegals!"
Hmmmm. What a charade!

The Democrat party is just spitting in our face right now and telling us they don't care whether we vote for them or not.I guess they feel that if they make citizens of these illegals they won't eventually need us. They may get fooled though.It's time that we started standing up for ourselves. When they tell us that we cannot fly the American flag because we might offend illegals there is something terribly wrong.

Dean, Kennedy, Kerry, Bush, McCain, little rich kids all, aren't worried that an illegal will take their job. Do you think their kids or grandchildren will ever have to compete against illegals for work? Or to get into college?

I hope McCain puts his money where his mouth is and pays people $50 an hour to pick lettuce. After his wealth is depleted in about one year I look forward to see him working part time in WalMart to make ends meet.

If it takes another disgusting Republican administration to have closed borders, I'll vote Republican.

There's something badly wrong with Time Magazine's survey. Looking to me like 8 out of ten out here in the world want illegal immigrants to be dealt with as the criminals they are. I've been a Democrat and a Union worker all my adult life. Now I'm having to write support letters to hard right conservatives to carry on the fight on an issue that ought to be a no brainer for "the working man's Party". Looking like it's goodbye time unless this Party gets in touch. Do what you want, believe what you will. See you in November.

I have been a Democrate my whole life, Ive worked for the party, I proudly have on my wall the Inaugural committee invitation to attend President Jimmy Carter, and Vice President Mondale in Washington, I have worked for my party all my life, and now I am totaly dissapointed in our stance on imigration to the point I may, if things dont change vote Republican next election, you havbe no idea how hard it is for me to say that, Why??

1. Maria Cantwell will not support deporting convicted felons, no will my party push for it. Are not our children and grandchildren in enough danger from home grown fellons?

You will not secure the boarders of our country, which is the sworn duty of you Armed Forces.

You are letting ILLEGAL ALIENS, (not undocumewnted people, call it what it is for Gods sake,) run roughshod over your own consituants because you want the Latino vote?

You had better listen up, or you will have enough Democrats jumping ship, that will finish the Democratic Party next election we the silent majority of Democrats, will remember. We will not only not regain 15 seats in the house, we will loose a buch.

Get in there and stick up for the American worker, pay a living wage, most of the so called migrant workers are not in the fields, where the hell do you think 12 million of them are, they are in the main stream and taking the American workers jobs.

Sombody at the DNC answer me back please and explain it to me.

All I see are flags of other countries on our streets, and we are being threatened with all sorts of reprisals if they dont like the laws an American Congress passes.

Give me a break.......

I have been a Democrate my whole life, Ive worked for the party, I proudly have on my wall the Inaugural committee invitation to attend President Jimmy Carter, and Vice President Mondale in Washington, I have worked for my party all my life, and now I am totaly dissapointed in our stance on imigration to the point I may, if things dont change vote Republican next election, you havbe no idea how hard it is for me to say that, Why??

1. Maria Cantwell will not support deporting convicted felons, no will my party push for it. Are not our children and grandchildren in enough danger from home grown fellons?

You will not secure the boarders of our country, which is the sworn duty of you Armed Forces.

You are letting ILLEGAL ALIENS, (not undocumewnted people, call it what it is for Gods sake,) run roughshod over your own consituants because you want the Latino vote?

You had better listen up, or you will have enough Democrats jumping ship, that will finish the Democratic Party next election we the silent majority of Democrats, will remember. We will not only not regain 15 seats in the house, we will loose a buch.

Get in there and stick up for the American worker, pay a living wage, most of the so called migrant workers are not in the fields, where the hell do you think 12 million of them are, they are in the main stream and taking the American workers jobs.

Sombody at the DNC answer me back please and explain it to me.

All I see are flags of other countries on our streets, and we are being threatened with all sorts of reprisals if they dont like the laws an American Congress passes.

Give me a break.......

I used to think your party reprented me, a believer in our country, and what it stand for. I was born in Alex., across the river,and was always raised to RESPECT the law,fight for our nation (which I volunteered to do so, air force '79-'84)and to work for what I expect to receive. Your adress to the nation sounded good, now PROVE it! All I see is you guys sucking up to LAW BREAKERS,homo's,commies, and subversives. Don't label me either, I'm a free thinker. I will split my vote this time, for whomever stand up for the real America's ideals. (What's left of it.)Read Roosevelt's credo concerning Immigrants also, couldn't have said it better. Study the difference between settlers, and immigrants also. My German ancestors ACCLIMATED, and respected the law.Get it together, and yes Bush has sold us out also, to revenge the "hit" attempt on Daddy B. Get us out of Iraq, How many BILLION, so far, for Cheney and his cronies? While americans go to bed hungry. Get it together, for OUR nations sake, not THEIRS. Thanks, Tim

Silverman,
Well, I see where you are coming from. Hey, that is why we are a democracy. All opinions are welcomed to the debate to bring out the right rather the wrong at the end of the day. Listen, if that many people have broken our immigration laws, then there is something wrong with both the law and the people who have broken these laws.
I am sure our fore fathers or whomever was first from our respective families to arrive in this country many years ago probably went through the same bashing and unfeeling that today illegal immigrants are witnessing from many whom advocate they should be deported. And I just wonder what our forefathers would probably think of today’s immigration debate. It was so bad for the Irish people in this country at one time that job signs( help wanted signs) in America carried the words ‘No Irish Please’
Look 12 million people did not arrive here just in one year or two. This happened because our government failed to enforce the law consistently and effectively. Now we have 12 million people on our hands and it is not practical that we criminalize and deport all of them. Letting them earn some form of legalization is in keeping with what this country stands for – Freedom and Liberty.
That said, many will make it to citizenship, but also many will not. Many will not be able to meet the requirements to be eligible to earn legalization. Many will probably die before they are able to make it, and many will just on their own return back to their country because they prefer the country they were originally from. It is possible some are just looking to save enough money from working here, after which they want to go back home to start a business of their own.
On a serious note, most people have not sat down to think deeply about how horrendous life will suddenly become if we were to remove 12 million people from our country, and from the jobs that they are currently doing, and deport them back to their respective countries. It is an understatement to say that this country will see CHAOS beyond what you and I can just imagine while seating comfortable on our couches and watching TV. Working and middle class people especially will be hurt really bad. For instance, it will no longer be cheap to buy your groceries at the store (How are we going to replace the farm workers). Many public places including hospitals will have their toilets shut down because they can’t keep up with the cleaning. Disease could break out as a result and kill americans. Many Americans will probably not be able to afford to eat at a McDonalds or most restaurants for that matter. Most of our road construction projects will grind to a halt, and that means more traffic and terrible road conditions. The cost of building a home will rise, and the dream of owning a home, held by many Americans will fly out the window. Many Americans will have to resign their jobs because they can no longer pay the high cost of daycare (it’s already happening now) or pay to have someone look after their children so they can go to work. It will probably take forever the next time you try to get your car fixed. Sanitary conditions in our cities will go from good to bad and to worse if we can’t find people to keep up with the cleaning. Many businesses, especially one-man businesses will fail when they can’t find minimum wage workers. Many of our state and local governments will see their tax revenues decline because of the high rate of business failures. Many businesses will end up outsourcing jobs to countries where labor is cheap and that would further shrink tax revenues for our local and state governments. This is just a bird eye view of what could happen if we suddenly start rounding up and deporting illegals, and by no means an exhaustive inventory of things that are likely to happen. I tell you what, most of us have had it so good in this country that we really can’t picture how bad things could get. When we saw the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, we were blown away so much by it, but the fact remains that people in other countries go through worse every year. Many of us need to visit outside this country to realize how blessed we are, and why many are willing to die just to come to our country illegally and do the odd and back breaking jobs in this country.
I sincerely think all of our interests are best and well served in the long run by legalizing the illegals. The economic indicators are doing okay. Unemployment at 4.8% is at it’s lowest. Europe with all its restrictive immigration policies still has 40% unemployment. It makes no sense to criminalize people here with the agenda to work hard but unfortunately, who are illegals as well.
Let's all go back and read about our nation's histry on immigration, and also resaerch on the current legal way people are expected to follow to come to this country. Most of us will be surprised by what we will find. A lot of half truths are thrown around in this debate. And some people are capitalizing on the ignorance of many to mask their true agenda in this debate. As a democrat, you have to wise up fast.

Only 34 percent of working-age people with disabilities had full time or part time jobs in 1986. In 2004, the figure was 35 percent, according to surveys done by the National Organization on Disability in conjunction with the Harris Survey. People without disabilities have an employment rate of 78 percent.

People with disabilities are nearly three times more likely to live in poverty than people without disabilities; 26 percent of people with disabilities had an 2004 annual household income below $15,000, versus 9 percent of those without disabilities, the survey found.

Basically, 80% of people with disabilities are lacking a full-time job. This rate has remained constant for the past 20 years (1986 illegal alien amnesty). Democrats will now import young healthy workers from Mexico to replace our disabled population taking away their jobs, their hope and their future! Shame!

"Europe with its restrictive immigration policies" What nonsense. Europe has been overrun by immigrants and it is causing major problems. England, France, the Netherlands, Gewrmany all have very large immigrant populations that are having tremendous difficulty assimilating. Most of them are Muslims.

The problem with the fear that deporting illegal's is it is just another scare tactic created to devert the attention of the American public while the government allows amnesty to the Companies that hire them and the Churches that need them in their pockets as well.

And please Latinos writing on this blog, stop and I do say stop, comparing all latinos as "toilet cleaners".

The problem on the West coast and around the country is that American Mexicans who own companies or are in high positions in the companies they work for as over seers, are just as guilty of exploiting their illegal brothers and sisters as any other Business owner in this country and they don't want their bread and butter any other way. They directly reap what the illegals Latino worker sows. How nice that they can use their labor organizations to back up their monsterous slave projects while the people who are going through the legal immigration system already have rights and are protected by the laws of America.

An immigrant with legal working papers can apply for any job in the United States LEGALLY and they don't have to CLEAN TOILETS if you have to use this assinine description.

Oh, and for histories sake, let's take a look at the Irish when they arrived in the united States. The men were immediately recruited to fight in the Civil War or pushed back on the boat they came on, and sent back!!

This country's leadership is writing a bill only targeting the Illegal victims of our modern day slave market and not addressing the crimes being committed by the corporations who hire them. Ask any illegal woman what happens if they refuse an overseers sexual advances. Wow, reality paints a different picture when you really look at the evils committed by the Evil people who use these ignorant and vulnerable illegal workers.

I know people who just started a construction business. In one year they were able to add 3 rooms onto their house plus a double stall garage, buy all the trucks and equipment they need for paving for the business, and oh yah, a corvett. How nice.

This new bill will allow them to now bid for State and Federal contracts which they have previously been unable to do, because thier workers are illegal folks. So, when you talk about the fact that this will work against the American workers you are all correct. The democrats better be aware that this is the Biggest upset to their coveted November elections as ever seen.

At least if they are going to allow a bigger Amnesty bill to relieve the illegals of the burden of responsibilty, then the one passed in the 1980's, do something to allow the pride of those who will comply with the new law and be pushed out of jobs like us Americans because companies will have to comply with the labor laws for these individuals.

The Companies will still hire "Illegals" under these new conditions and push the one's who comply with the laws out so that they can continue their exploitive practices as it behooves them. After all, it is the labor laws and the tax burden they are trying to dodge.

Where's the hipocrasy? Well, I guess, when you see these Mexican Americans out on the streets protesting, ask them what they are protesting against. It would do well that they forget the past and fight for thier future rights in the right corner. It's the American corner Latino's!!

Quit the bull and get to the truth. Don't help the people who will continue to exploit your illegal brothers ans sisters.

Be AN AMERICAN first. Your eyes will quickly open then.

And another thing, When are the churches going to pay thier fair share in taxes? They seem to stick thier nose in the American laws just as much as the Corporations do when it comes to their own interests.

If you think that any of the churches lend a hand to the poor this is ludicrous. When I was a single mom and went to my Church (Roman Catholic)whom I was a member all my life and begged for food, I was turned away with Nothing!!! After all those Sunday tithes my family and I paid. I got NOTHING!!!!
ZILCH!!!!!!

There's your church for yah.

I've been a democrat for years but I can not support anyone who is for a guest worker program and who does not put absolute border security at the top of their agenda.

The Democratic Party supposedly supports equal opportunity for all Americans.

It appears that if you don't have a college degree and have to work with your back and hands the Democratic leadership would just as soon give an illegal immigrant the same opportunity for getting a job as you have.

I guess it salves their conscience somehow to think they are helping the poor immigrant forgetting that it's at the expense of their fellow American.

The Democratic solution is as far out as the Republican. There must be serious steps taken to control our borders for the safety of this country. Sitting around patting yourselves on the back for being so liberal just won't cut it any more. Furthermore, you need to show the American people how your solution will aid this country financially, and how you propose to supply these illegals with health care, education, food, and housing without it costing the tax payers additional money over the years. This country is in very bad shape financially, and steps must be taken to correct this situation.

In case you wonder, I am an independent who has voted Democratic for the past two elections.

You can't stop illegals from entering this country. The term illegal means it has been against the law to do so in the past but stopping them hasn't worked. With the so called free trade agreement, we opened our borders to caravans of trucks caring everything from immigrants to most of the drugs that come in to the country. If you searched every truck,corporate America would be screaming, and free trade Republicans would have to eat their words on the benefits of unrestricted free trade. It is simply a political ploy. They don't want to stop illegals or they would have done it over the past six years and they don't won't to stop the drugs that are coming the same way or they would have done that also. Why now during an election year? All they are trying to do is split the Democratic party any way the can because they are in trouble.

Republicans posting on this board claiming to be Democrats, and ordinary working citizens, are simply blowing smoke and trying to drive a wedge in our unity. Illegal immigrants are not breaking the bank because if we do our jobs correctly they cannot get benefits. A few might but they are doing far less damage to this country than the Big Oil companies who are robbing us every day. Where are all these Republicans when Exxon tells us they made 30 Billion in one quarter? Tell me that doesn't affect working Americans when you pay for your gas as well as every business and government agency that passes their increase on to you. If a true Democrat would vote Republican simply on the immigration issue, no matter what it is, they deserve to be screwed.What our focus should be is getting every Republican out of office any way we can and keep them out. That is when our lives will get better. Worrying about someone slipping across the border is simply stupid.

I have been a Democrat my whole life because I thought you stood for the middle class and poor. Now I find out that you are no better than the Republicans. You stand for the big business,I lost my job because it was moved to Mexico,Now you tell me that you want to let 20 million iLLEGAL Immigrants buy their Citzenship,No wonder we Democrates,cannot win a election.I don't know pole you are reading that says most Americans want this.If you democrats don't start standing up for the middle class again,I don't know how I will vote in the next election.Get your hands out of businesses pockets and do what we voted you in for.I was also a union member most of my lifeand now thay are also for lower wages and no middle class in the United States.I will never join another Union.