"We've seen this playbook before." to quote the last sentence in the original op-ed.

I agree with Thom Hartman's article that corporatists are screwing American workers and frankly some Democratic politicians are complicit by non-action.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/06/03/con06114.html

We saw it in 1986 when we were told by politicians on both sides that amnesty for 3.5 million illegal immigrants and subsequent enforcement of employers and the border would solve the illegal immigration problem. It never happened.

The infrastructure must be put in place first to provide true enforcement and punishment of greedy employers and on the border.

Until them we are just positioning the USA for another wave of illegal immigration.

I don't know who Time magazine polled, but I can tell you it must have been illegals. Everyone I know wants these people to go home. I am sick of watching them wave their Mexican flags. Half of them believe in Reconquista. I'm tired of my tax dollars taking care of their medical and schooling. Most of them do not want to learn English or assimilate. First we sent our jobs to Mexico and now they're coming here to take people's jobs and drive the wages down. Build that fence and build it high and wide.

I'm glad that the Democrats have come out in support of a path to citizenship and have called for increased technology for our border patrol. As you said Tim, sending 11 million people out of the country is just not feasible for a government who couldn't stop the 11 million from coming in in the first place. Right now, Kennedy and McCain are looking to build a "virtual wall," with better equipment and resources available for our border patrol.

That seems to be the logical thing to do right now. I'm okay with giving that a shot right now. However, if that is not successful, I do believe we will eventually need to put up a structure to protect our border and place law enforcement behind it.

One of the things that I'm not hearing from many individuals is that effect of having National Guard troops in their second and third terms in Iraq in relation to this border issue. Gov. Napolitano has ordered National Guard to the border to back up border patrol, however, all National Guard units around the country are supremely undermanned due to many of them being in Iraq. We've got to find a political solution in Iraq and get those troops home, and their help, in addition to the virtual wall, may help us solve this issue. Otherwise, we'll be hearing about this issue again in the near future and then a wall or a fence will be a must.

I have listened to numerous politicians and strategists of both parties say over and over, it is totally unrealistic to think that we can round up anywhere from 12,000,000 to 20,000,000 illegal immigrants and send them back!! Can you even imagine how this would be done? Can You imagine the MONEY it would cost to do this? Money that could be spent on the real problem----securing those borders and bringing charges against CEOs who are milking this situation of cheap labor !

Get Real !

And Indygal, if any Mexican is taking YOUR's or Your friends jobs, I suggest you get some education and go into a higher line of work !

Picking crops and mowing lawns is not all it is cracked up to be.

Marcela Sanchez, a Washington Post syndicated columnist, had this to say last year about immigration:

Immigration Is Not the Only Problem

By Marcela Sanchez
Special to washingtonpost.com
Thursday, May 26, 2005; 10:30 PM

WASHINGTON -- Whether you believe Mexican immigrants help or hurt the United States, there is one incontrovertible truth: work here pays much, much better. A low-skilled Mexican worker in this country earns five to six times as much as he would back home, assuming he or she could find a comparable job.

This truth is so obvious it seems a cliche and yet it remains mostly absent from the current debate on how to reform U.S. immigration. For all the talk around the country of border enforcement, guest worker programs, employer sanctions and driver's licensing restrictions, the sad fact is that none of these "solutions'' addresses the root of the problem -- a persistent and large U.S.-Mexican income disparity.

Even the most comprehensive and progressive immigration reform proposal in years, introduced this month by Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., is more concerned with making U.S. immigration policy more humane than dealing with income disparity between the United States and Mexico. The bill crafts a guest worker program -- creating new visa categories and quotas and a secure identification system for employers -- but only provides a vague indication that income disparity might be a problem worth taking on.

[]

To alter income disparity, it is obvious that Mexico must reduce its development gap and raise incomes. What is just as apparent is that Americans do not feel, at least at the moment, that they have a responsibility or even an interest in reducing that gap through investment of money and expertise. They don't feel the same obligation they once felt, say, after World War II for Europe, or that the European Union took on when it bolstered its poorest members. Mexico and the United States may share a 2,000-mile border but their sense of a shared future runs two inches deep.

[]

The administration and Congress are under little pressure to deepen the U.S. commitment to Mexico by a public increasingly fearful and resentful toward immigrants, particularly Mexicans. If anything, such sentiments prolong illegal immigration, in the sense that they distract citizens and leaders alike into thinking that if you put up enough barriers, Mexicans will go away.

Posted by PamB on April 3, 2006 at 01:10 PM

It's not just the money it would cost to deport all of them but what they would be taking out of our economy if we did deport them because they pay billions of dollars of taxes here.

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, the National Academy of Sciences found that the average immigrant annually contributes $1,800 more in taxes than he or she receives in benefits. Over their lifetimes, immigrants and their children will each pay an average $80,000 more in taxes than they will receive in local, state and federal benefits combined.

Because states provide most services used by immigrants, they can be net financial losers, while the federal government is typically a net gainer.

Question forr anyone who knows: Wages for so-called "Guest Worker" programs.... are we talking minimum wage?

Anyone know if this has been discussed? Just wondering if the guest-worker program is envisioned as a way for employers to pay less-than minimum wage....

If anyone knows I'd appreciate hearing from you!

Thanks.

My belief is that the politicians put the welfare of America far behind their own self interests. The GOP sees it as corporate welfare for their base and the Democratic party sees it as new voting block and the hell with how it affects low skilled US citizens.

Neither side cares what it does to the country as to standard of living and long term competitiveness. And neither side cares what their constituency wants.

It may not be a scientific poll, but I have not spoken to ANY person on either political side, that isn't totally fed up with the politicians and their pandering on this issue. They want illegal immigration stopped, they are angry with employers, and they want the borders closed.

ALL my Democratic friends are as angry as I am on this.

In response to the minimum wage question:

I believe President Bush's guest worker program idea does not call for a required minimum wage. Ideas in the Senate I believe do call for such a wage.

Posted by KDJ on April 3, 2006 at 02:16 PM

Thanks KDJ, I'm thinking will become a big part of the debate if the guest worker thing actually goes through....

McCain-Kennedy guarantees guest workers all of the same workplace rights as U.S. citizens and, by bringing their employment out into the open, helps to ensure that minimum wage laws, safety standards and the right organize a union will be more consistently and effectively enforced. The bill also doesn’t tie guest workers to a single job, enabling them to leave an employer to seek a better opportunity elsewhere.

My guess is the House bill does none of these things.

To Robson
I totally agree with you. Just ignore Pam B.

Posted by Corinne on April 3, 2006 at 02:27 PM

Thanks Corinne... I guess this goes along with the arguments we're hearing to effect that "Guest worker programs reward illegal behaviour" etc.....

Personally, my gripe is the oft-repeated phrase "Jobs Americans Won't Do."

I wish someone would jump on that one... illegal immigration aside, in my mind there is no job and american won't do!

About the illegal immigration issue:

Fellow Dems, let's try to remember how wedge issues are used to divide America. In my mind, the issue is not the illegal immigrants themselves: it is the politicians and lobbying interests who favor Free (but not fair) Trade, Job Outsourcing, "Low or No" wages or worker protections, who have neglected to give their full attention to port and border security as recommended by the 9/11 commission.

The strategists fanning the flames on this issue would be happy for us all to turn against illegal immigrants as if deporting them and building a wall will do anything to protect American workers and American jobs... these actions are not pro American worker... they are only anti-immigrant!

Furthermore, let's remember that the large numbers of illegal immigrants did not get here overnight, nor will we see a dramatic increase their numbers overnight.

We have time to have a clear-headed debate on this issue and we have time to pass laws that take our border security seriously.

I say border security comes first, and as a result we'll see less illegal immigrants.

In the meantime, let's try and come together around the fact that illegal immigrants who work and pay taxes, are working for America and driving our economy along with the rest of us hard working folks.

Posted by DTree on April 3, 2006 at 02:37 PM

The number one offender who uses that term is Bush, to boost the credibility of a guest worker program.

But there is a certain truth: There are jobs that Americans won't do--because they don't pay enough. If you want Americans to work picking lettuce or work in a garment factory, you need to pay a decent wage and follow the labor laws that are on the books.

Instead, employers have found a way to get around their obligations by employing "undocumented" workers, thus creating a demand for illegal labor.

At bottom, the immigration "crisis" is a supply and demand issue. There is a supply of undocumented workers because there is a demand for it. I think if the government really enforced the laws that are already on the books and worked to reduce the demand for undocumented labor, the supply will decrease (I think there will always be a stream of undocumented immigrants no matter what.) Employers need to pay more for doing the jobs that "Americans won't do."

To Robson
I totally agree with you. Just ignore Pam B.

Posted by indygal on April 3, 2006 at 02:28 PM

uhhh, indy, I totally agree with Robson, that our borders MUST GET CLOSED once and for all, too!

Please re=read my post, you missed something there. I was saying that it is generally agreed by all, that it is totally unreasonable, to think we are going to find and send back or arrest, that many illegal aliens, so our energies and money has to be spent on REAL effective changes! Like Border security !

Everyone in the know is also saying a Fence is ludicruous. They are tunneling under blockades and fences and guards right now!

me thinks your touch of Bigotry and intolerance is more likely to make your decisions, than any real education of the issue. Let me know how someone in Indiana is affected by Illegal Immigrants ! I am willing to bet you have not even seen one with your own eyes!

Fact 1: We have large numbers of inner city blacks that are experiencing very high unemployment rates. It is costing the USA in numerous ways, through direct welfare and indirect social services with higher crime, incarceration, etc.

Fact 2: We have unskilled illegal aliens who are coming into this country undercutting and taking the jobs that are causing much of the situation above. These illegals are good for only a select few greedy business people, and politicians trying to make points for themselves while screwing their constituents.

And then we have political leaders who have the foresight of a baboon telling us that this is good for America. Jeez.

Ok, so now people are blaming illegal immigrants for racism and inner city poverty.

This is wedge issue folks... let's focus on the policies that will:

1) make our ports and borders more secure
2) create jobs for Americans
3) encourage "fair" trade in developing countries so people can support their families without having to cross to Amecia illegally.

OK, say you have no illegal immigrants in this country.... now please explain how you would fix the problem of inner city poverty.

I fail to see how the two issues are connected, but that's just me.

I think Republican politicans could learn from other societies about how to treat guests. In other cultures when a host offers hospitality, he puts the guest before himself.

This White House guest worker talk is nothing more than the usual Rovarian double-speak. It has nothing to do with guests and everything to do with cheap labor.

Even the "guests" have figured it out. They took to the streets to announce that they're not going to be treated like E-bay items that can be auctioned off after 5 years of use. Good for them.

Posted by SandyH on April 3, 2006 at 05:46 PM

yeah, fact of the matter is that we already have a "guest worker program."

It's called a work visa!!!
(only problem is that the employer has to pay a fair wage and taxes...) ;)

The Democratic Party is also out of touch with Americans on the Immigration issue! I was stunned to see only Democrats on Sunday's Talking Heads shows supporting Bush's "Amensty Plan" for "Illegal Immigrants" (That's what they are not "Undocumented Workers") The argument we need to be making is for the Protection of our Borders and the enforcement of current laws on the books... If you hired an "Illegal Immigrant" you broke the law and should be fined.

Once the jobs for "Illegal Immigrants" dry up we won't need to deport them. Only then can we start the discussion on a real "Guest Worker" program for workers who wish to follow the law and are not "Illegal Immigrants"
Americans are Angry at Washington over the failure of our Immigration Policy and we are all aware it's a failure on both sides. If the Democrats in the beltway want to side with Bush on this issue and then come to us for donations and support at election time they may be in for a rude awakening...

This party is out of touch with the vast majority of the middle class on this issue. I do not understand how the Democrats can criticize the Rescumlicans for waging war on the middle class from above by cutting benefits and shifting the tax burden in relative terms from the rich and then turn around an embrace a program that wages war on the middle class from below by savaging wages by embracing the importation of cheap labor. This is yet another indication of the emerging dictatorship of capital.

The truth is both parties are water carriers for Corporate America.

As a life-long Democrat and former county chairman I am leaving the party and will vote for third party candidates until this party remembers it's New Deal roots.

Since when has it become liberal to savage the middle class by embracing cheap foriegn labor. And how is this different than exporting jobs overseas.

And please, no more nonsense about how these people are taking jobs no American will do. I have seen them working as masons, stone masons, carpenters, roofers, concrete workers, drywall and painters. Skilled labor that used to pay a living wage. This is straight nonsense produced by conservative stink tanks and it pains me to see Democratic leaders parroting this nonesense.

I and my friends and even my enemies are against a guest worker program. We need to improve border security. As for the ILLEGALS paying taxes where??. They are illegal the only taxes they pay would be sales tax. They certainly don't pay income tax. However, they certainly benefit from food stamps, free medical care etc. I don;t have free medical care or food stamps. I would love to have medical care but can't afford it. BUt the people of BOTH parties in washington have FORGOTTEN about the American people who actually keep the country going. They are more concerned with other countries, big business and themselves. A VERY SELFISH GROUP OF PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON TODAY. The Anerican people need to remember this in NOV. and choose the BEST person for the job not chose along party lines.

To PamB

I totally agree with you - just ignore indygal :)

Posted by neonewdealer on April 3, 2006 at 06:22 PM This is yet another indication of the emerging dictatorship of capital.

That's the crux of it and that fix is generations away even if trade policy and labor policy is changed to promote it.

Those who ignore free trade don't want to solve the problem.

Those who ignore corporate greed don't want to fix the problem.

Those who ignore Mexican wages don't want to end the problem.

Posted by surprised on April 3, 2006 at 06:57 PM They are illegal the only taxes they pay would be sales tax. They certainly don't pay income tax. However, they certainly benefit from food stamps, free medical care etc. I don;t have free medical care or food stamps. I would love to have medical care but can't afford it.

Here are the eligibility requirements for foodstamps starting with ...

Everyone in your household must have or apply for a Social Security number and be in one of the following categories:

McCarthy used to just make stuff too - it is an old playbook

DTree....The first solution to inner city poverty is that unskilled US citizens must have ready access to jobs with reasonable wages.

But 20 Million illegals are taking those jobs because they will work their butts off as pseudo slaves/illegal immigrants at sub par wages. They have to work hard as the alternative is deportation.

Posted by Robson on April 3, 2006 at 07:30 PM

Let's just agree to disagree. The first solution to inner city poverty is for America to take a good hard look at the issue of racism in this country.

Getting rid of illegal immigrants will do nothing to fix inner city poverty.

...That is, if you are really concerned with fixing inner city poverty, and not just concerned with it "costing the USA in numerous ways, through direct welfare and indirect social services with higher crime, incarceration, etc.

But, if it's illegal immigration that really gets your goat, then you need to focus more attention on what causes illegal immigration:

Deficient port and border security. Democrats will implement all the recommendations of the 9/11 commission to secure our ports and borders
Government in bed with big business: Democrats are the only party that can stand up to big business and fight for fair treatment of American workers
Lobbyists in bed with republican leaders push for sweatshop wages in latin america: Only Democats can make free trade into "Fair Trade."

This has to be said:

Half of the Democratic politicians are bought off too. (DLC)

Dtree....Agree then, we'll have to disagree.

"Getting rid of illegal immigrants will do nothing to fix inner city poverty."

Unlike what Bush and his many greedy cohorts say, there is a declining number of low skill/menial jobs in the country. If unskilled American citizens have these opportunities taken from them by uninvited illegals, then aside from going out and getting a skill how are they going to get a job? That's the first step out of poverty.

I agree with your 3 bullet points to an extent (maybe 65%-70%). Politicians are looking out for their self interests only. And Clinton, by signing NAFTA made me take another look at the Democratic Party and whether they are as pro-worker as they used to be. BTW their current stand on pro-illegals only proves to me they aren't.

pee-wee.....Agreed. If anyone thinks that one party or the other is immune from graft then they need to get a grip on reality. Big corporate money will play both sides of the aisle when necessary and both sides will have their palms up.
This is especially true since unions are almost an extinct entity, thanks to the last 4 Presidents and their affinity to globalism, CAFTA, NAFTA, WTO, multi-nationals, etc..

I'm worried that American workers have lost what was their main political support...the Democratic Party.

Posted by Robson on April 3, 2006 at 10:55 PM I'm worried that American workers have lost what was their main political support...the Democratic Party.

I wonder about that myself sometimes

Don't be suckered in Democrats!
The whole raising of the issue of immigration is nothing more than a Karl Rove PLOY! It's a smokescreen, a misdirection, a totally insincere attempt at changing the national dialogue.

Don't let them get away with it!!!!!

STAY ON MESSAGE!!!!!

There are two critical issues in this country right now:
1. The Bush Iraq disaster
2. The rampant Republican corruption at all levels.

The republicans created the immigration discussion for two reasons, to cement their base and to take the heat off.

This is it. This is their play. This is their election year strategy. It's going down and it's going down right now. It's ALL manipulation and gamesmanship.

DON'T LET THEM CHANGE THE SUBJECT!!!
DON'T LET THEM TELL YOU WHAT TO TALK ABOUT!!! DON'T LET THEM OFF THE HOOK EVER!!!

I live on the Texas-Mexico border, I have for 31 years. The illegal crossing has been here for all of my life, yet not as public as today. I cannot tell you of a day where we did not see illegal boys, girls, women with children asking for money in a drive thru. Walking the streets hoping to find a dollar. This is something that our country has dealt with for centuries. As a Mexican-American woman I am torn. I feel that creating a wall to "keep them out" is inhumane and it would not work. What you need to understand is, these people are desperate for work, money, a better life for their families. How humane is it to cross a river not knowing what you may run into? We must do our best to talk to our neighbors to the south and help the government keep thier citizens at home. Or we must change the "assistance programs" in this country. I have seen what this "free ride" has created.... an open door for illegal migration. We must try and assist these individuals by creating time periods for medicaid, food stamps, etc and educate them. Teach them the language, provide classes for GED, parenting classes, etc.. this in the long run will help these families become hard working, tax paying individuals which is what we all would like to see. Too many families know the benefits of giving birth to children in this country, too many families are provided with too much while not working a day in their lives. This is the reason for the constant migration. Let's help our migrants by making them help themselves.
I come from a migrant family where assistance was never an option. Today my educated father sees the fruit of their labor with an educated family consisting of doctors, lawyers, engineers, speech therapists, etc... That is the American dream, that is what we must teach our immigrants. We invite you into our country, but work for it and make your voice heard in a positive manner.

Actually the United States does need to secure the border and the best way to do that would be with the military as a back-up to the border control. This isn't intolerance, what is intolerance is when the president of Mexico Vicente Fox said "Americans should be thankful, Mexicans are doing the jobs that not even blacks would". Now that is intolerance and racist and to this no apology was ever made which is rude. We have to stop allowing so many people to keep coming into the United States the wrong illegal way. Jobs are being stolen from the middle-class and the poor. No more amnesty for illegal aliens!
The law is the law and it's wrong to reward people for breaking the law and it's also a slap in the face to people who moved to the United States but did it the right and legal way. I also think Vicente Fox owes African Americans a big apology for his offensive comments. It seems like these days Lou Dobbs on CNN is one of the few who is in touch with what the majority of Americans are thinking on this topic, just look at the results on the CNN polls over the past two years on Lou Dobbs Tonight.

Also, the Mexican government has to start being more responsible because they aren't doing anything to lift their own people out of poverty which is wrong and it's also wrong how big companies in the United States are taking advantage of the situation. Often times below poverty level wages are being paid which isn't right.

I also think Vicente Fox owes African Americans a big apology for his offensive comments.

He did - almost a year ago.

The law is the law and it's wrong to reward people for breaking the law and it's also a slap in the face to people who moved to the United States but did it the right and legal way.

The "guest worker" program is nothing more than a work visa - they all already have jobs - they all already qualify for a work visa - they wouldn't get citizenship ahead of anyone else.

Posted by garfisher on April 4, 2006 at 12:52 AM

Heil Hitler

I find it sad that the Democratic party no longer chooses to represent the US citizens who work for a living. The Democratic party embraced free trade agreements that exported US jobs. Now they continue in that new tradition by supporting the continued importation of labor to decrease US wages and diminish job opportunities.

I find it rather crass to suggest that all US citizens can educate or work their way out of low skill level jobs. I also find it crass to suggest that US citizens are too good to do these jobs. US citizens are not genetically superior to foreign citizens nor are foreign citizens genetically superior to US citizens. I'm not interested in creating an untouchable class of foreign workers to be treated as less than human. US citizens should be allowed to work in low skill level jobs and be treated with dignity and paid fairly.

The mass importation of foreign citizens reduces wages and job opportunities for US citizens. Massive importation of illegal aliens who have only a high school education or less causes a labor surplus. US citizens with a high school education or less can no longer participate in the workforce because they can't not find a job due to increased competition or they can't afford to work for below subsistence level wages. It is unforgivable to fix the labor market to the deteriment of the working poor in the US.

Refusing to enforce immigration laws and rewarding law breakers with amnesty, legalization, or guestworker programs is only about providing cheap labor for disreputable employers engaged in illegal activities.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2006/back206.pdf

I don't think we can solve the world's poverty problems through our immigration policy. Instead we need to look at our trade policies that benefit multi-national corporations and hurt US citizens as well as foreign citizens. We also need to offer advice, guidance, and aid to foreign countries that have massive problems with poverty.

The United States can not hold all the people who want to become US citizens to escape poverty in their own countries. Importing poverty from the developing world just puts the US underclass deeper into poverty and hopelessness. It does very little to help the massive poverty problems of the developing world and does much to harm the poor in the USA. We are in fact full.

Sorting Through Humanitarian Clashes in Immigration

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/cgi-bin/showarticle.pl?articleID=671&terms=

Are all illegals here for a better life? Don,t think so!
Go to mexica-movement.org (It just might change your point of view on this topic)Wake up America

Illegal immigrants are in this country because we want them here. We want the cheap labor but we do not want to pay the taxes American workers require. Government has turned their backs for decades to insure this supply of cheap labor is maintained. We are all guilty because we buy the houses they build and we use them in many ways. They can't complain about anything because they are illegal therefore we have them over a barrel. Allowing them to stay here for several years and work is the same thing. How do we know when their time is up? Who checks, what happens then? It's a joke. If we want them to do our work, they should get the benefits from it just like anybody else or Latinos should use their economic and political power, and it is substantial, to get what the deserve. What Congress is doing now is dancing around the issue to try to calm the public but keep the cheap labor.It is a slap in the face to all Mexicans. If the Latino community sticks together, they have more power than they can imagine.

hmmm.... looks like Rove unleashed the troll-loggers big time on this issue... i don't think i've seen this many republican bloggers fomenting dissent since the gay marriage debate.

sheesh indeed.

Dems, let's keep up the momentum... the GOP is running scared and this is their last ditch effort to change the debate! Stay on point and we'll take back congress in november!!! Dems are the onky ones who can address ALL the issues and get our country back on track!

You need a talking point on immigration? Try this one:

Impliment the recommendations of the 911 commission and make our ports and borders secure once and for all!! Republicans have blocked every attempt to fund port and border security for the last 5 years! That's a record they can't run away from!

My message to the party is that the bill from Kennedy and Macain I think will drive more democrats over to the republicans in november. The american worker is losing jobs to overseas factories and outsorceing and now they want to import more aliens for jobs. How about the americans at the lower end of the pay scale they cant work for the slave wages the the employers pay to these people. We have alot of poor people here too, that can't find decent paying jobs. I think you a making a big mistake as far as the November election is concerned.I sure don't agree with this bill and I don't think Time Mag. is correct either. shorty

I'm tired of people over-simplifing the jobs illegal immigrants are taking as lawn cutting and dishwashing--they also take construction jobs, meat cutting jobs and thousands of others.
And to let employers off the hook because "nobody else will fill these jobs" is fallacious. Maybe nobody will take the jobs at the cut-rate pay employers can now get away with offering because illegals won't complain, or unionize or ask for a raise.
On another point: I think we should change the law about a child born here automatically being citizen; if I were to rob a bank, and give the money to my kids, you bet the authorities would prevent them from profiting from a crime, and seize the money. "Oh, but you're punishing the child," people say. No, the parent is punishing them by offering them something (citizenship) that was gotten by way of an illegal act.
Lastly, to say that some of us are in favor of changing things once we (or our parents or grandparents) got here is also misleading. My grandparents came here legally; I'm still in favor of 'legal' immigration (how could I not be?)

I'm a middle of the road blue collar democrat. my famili has supported the democratic party since 1928 when al smith ran for president.
But I see the stance the leaders of our party are taking on this issue are saying someone like me who plays the game by the rules that i don't matter.The party will lose middle of the road democrats like myself which will be a shame.

just another quick note i wrote my 2 california senators about this issue. Boxer responded with a nice reply but fienstien never bothered with a responce to a loyal democrat.

I'm totally in agreement with this post, but I must ask, why is Sen. McCain not able to gather the necessary 60 votes in the Senate to support the "Guest-Worker" program?
Which democrats demurred? Any?
I hope not. I'll check later.

I would like to add this:
In the 1980's and thereabouts the wave of Irish and Italian migration to the U.S was called a "plague"; the same was said of the Greeks, the Jews, the Chinese.. It seems that we always forget where we come from, as a country.
Those immigrants built this land. They built our railroads. They built New York City, Los Angeles, Houston, Boston. Immigrants now are the same as immigrants then; hard working, proud, and grateful. Let's not forget that. Let's not forget that St Patrick's Day was first celebrated by millions of illegal Irish. I dont hear anything about THEIR flag waving. It is extremely hypocritical to hate immigrants now, ask them to leave under false economic pretexts; if someone asked your family to leave when they boarded a boat from Europe three generations ago, destined to work for peanuts and occupy the slums, all for the glory of living in the U.S, you would be hurt and insulted too. I hope race is not the issue here, but I fear it is.

I meant the 1890's.

If you leave this great party over this stupid wedge issue,you were never a Dem to begin with!

I'll tell you who made it a wedge issue, the limo liberals and the far right who aren't affected by illegals. They live in an ivory tower or gated community and have lost touch with the reality of it all.

Centrist Democrats and moderate Republicans should get our own party because neither side represents our interests anymore. It's all about globalism and power to the party.

DTree I agree that the Republicans have been worthless on border security and port security since 9-11. I only wish I had confidence that the Democratic Party would take the lead on this. Instead it appears to be supporting exactly what Bush wants.

the difference is those italian and other immigrants entered the country leagaly. and what do you say to the immigrants who followed the rules and sought to obtain citzenship thru the proper channels?" thank you for playing by the rules now too bad F U"

Here's another difference...the Irish, the Chinese etc. tried their best to assimilate, learn the language and embrace their new country. A generation (or two) ago, there was nobody more proud of their country than an immigrant with new citizenship papers. That acquisition of national identity is what the 'melting pot' is all about. We all come from different backgrounds, but we are all Americans. Where is that pride with illegal immigrants? Nonexistant.

I just hope that people keep in mind the operative word here is illegal. We need to have some immigration controls for health and safety issues. There will always be those sanctions who will take advantage of a good thing and use if for evil. If people want to enter following the rules, then fine. If not, I guess I have to agree that they should not enter. If they wish to come here and benefit, then there is some accountability and responsibility that goes with any privilege. For people to come here and not be accountable or have any obligation to their benefactor, then that is wrong. According to world statistics, Mexico has the highest rate of remittance from emmigrant workers in the world and the U.S. has the highest influx of mexican immigrants. We have to keep a balance on this. If people wish to enter legally and citizentry that is here is safe-guarded, then fine. If they wish to come here to rape for profit and then leave, then no, they should not come.
Oh Joy

I just hope that people keep in mind the operative word here is illegal. We need to have some immigration controls for health and safety issues. There will always be those sanctions who will take advantage of a good thing and use if for evil. If people want to enter following the rules, then fine. If not, I guess I have to agree that they should not enter. If they wish to come here and benefit, then there is some accountability and responsibility that goes with any privilege. For people to come here and not be accountable or have any obligation to their benefactor, then that is wrong. According to world statistics, Mexico has the highest rate of remittance from emmigrant workers in the world and the U.S. has the highest influx of mexican immigrants. We have to keep a balance on this. If people wish to enter legally and citizentry that is here is safe-guarded, then fine. If they wish to come here to rape for profit and then leave, then no, they should not come.
Oh Joy

I can't believe it....Randi Rhodes, Lou Dobbs, and right wing radio agreeing that illegal immigration will obliterate the US middle class.

Also that the employers of illegals should be literally hung out to dry for it.

Well, Hello Dems,

It's about time I heard some fighting Dems out there writing about the total Bull our party is delivering on this issue or lack thereof.

Just for the sake of it. Remember Illegal is illegal, that means on both the immigrant and, more importantly the Company who hires them. This should be out right treason in a post 911 world.

Also, to pay taxes you need an SSN number so if you are illegal and pay taxes, well oops, there you go again, breaking the law cause illegal means no SSN number.

Next, if you are illegal and have a child born in the United States, there you go, an SSN!!! Wow, now you can apply for medicad and food stamps for your kid and by the way the more you have, the more you get, get it? These babies, by the way are tearing down the US flags and raising Mexican flags at our schools, parading in our streets and Yes, being educated all on our tax paying asses. I don't see those kids carrying the US flag and asking for their relatives to become legal or to get Amnesty. These people want open borders. Get It!!

And no, if you think giving these people more financial support in the form of Public welfare, and family education and all that jazz is the answer, then why hasn't it already worked for all the Americans that are currently on Public Assistance.

Pretty soon, our window of opportunity will run out. Another terrorist attack is coming. Illegal or no, we will all be effected. In the meantime we are all being so, side tracked on this issue while nothing is being done!

I by the way, as many of you know, am a breed of many races as well as married to an Hispanic, with children, and Hispanic grandchildren. That said, to be called a bigot, save that word for someone else. I have also worked for 15 years in one of those jobs "Americans won't do", and am appalled that my hispanic blood ties would again be summed up with such a racist remark as this. Not all hispanics are that ignorant to let this remark slide.

Immigration should be respected, if it is done "legally" Magic word? No, I don't think so.

I resent that my husband, children and grandchildren, all Americans by the way, are looked upon by other non Hispanic's as they are automatically illegal and resented or treated less than human because of it, and believe me folks it happens. Both in public as well as in the work place.

So, I say out with the illegals. It's cheaper to deport, then to pay for their public assistance over the years. We already gave them Amnesty in the 1980's and all we got is more illegals. In with the Legalization process that is already in place. Wait your turn and follow the rules. Bottom line.

Enforce our laws Leadership, and take those Companies who hire them to task for Treason against this Country as rightly they are.

As this Country is governed by the people, for the people. Meaning Americans.

I'm done.

Robson,

This might mean a new political group developing in our nation that is neither far right wing nor far left.

It may be the American middle class!! Who by the way better stand up and take their turn before it is to late.

Cause the Dems sure ain't doing the job for us no more.

8 out of ten democrats I have talked to (48 of 60) tend to agree with tom tancredo, and want all illegal immigrants prosecuted and sent back! This is only a wedge issue for the 15 % of active vocal democrats who think otherwise. The rest of us will cast our ballots accordingly. I've voted democratic for 40 years,but will not vote for any democrat who wants to allow all the illegals to remain. Even worse some here in Iowa even wanted to allow illegal aliens to get a drivers lisc. Another wanted the state to purchase $ 200,000 of spanish language books for their local library since they couldnt read english. We didnt do these things for poles,germans,japanese, chinese,etc. etc. The Bush proposal is another ploy for big business.

AmericanWmn...I can't tell you how impressed I am when I hear and see successful people of Mexican heritage, here legally, speaking fluent English, joining our culture, and fully taking part in the American dream.

But I can't tell you how outraged it makes me to see millions of illegals marching with their Mexican flag demanding that we Americans MUST accept these invaders.

It ain't going to happen but it will hurt many people like yourself that want to be American in America.

I think the Dems are out of touch with their base in immigration. The McCain-Kennedy bill will not bring out the faithful. The faintest whiff of "amnesty" or "guest worker" will keep non-hispanic low-income voters, Blacks and union members home on election day '06.

What part about illegal immigration don't you understand. Supporting illegal immigration is wrong plain and simple.

ILLEGAL immigration and legal immigration are not the same. We welcome over 1 million legal new immigrants a year. Those people waiting and processing legally have been fooled. Break the law and get rewarded. Follow the law and be a chump.

Why do we have such lax border security as to allow millions of illegal aliens into this country? Who benefits: Number one --Corporate America. They get to keep your wages low by exploiting illegals. According to the Pew center on Hispanic Studies, the biggest losers due to illegal immigration are recent legal Hispanic legal immigrants. Chumped again.

It is estimated that for a quart of strawberries that paying legal minimum wages would increase picking costs from 12 cents to 25 cents. Why do we exploit illegals to save 12 cents?

Why do we support a racist set of organizations to promote their un American agenda? Who are we talking about--La Raza (The Race), LuLAC, Univision (Jorge Ramos) and other Latino organizations that 1) support the reconquista, the reqconquest of America by Latinos
2) Support the subversion of US law by supporting illegal immigration 3) Support the Latinization of America within 30 years

Why aren't these racist groups clamoring for Chinese, Poles, and all others who want to come into this country illegally? Because they are not the Race?

Why is it Mexico stops illegal immigration into their country on their southern border and encourages it to our country by handing out maps, guides and the support of Mexican army troops to assist these invaders?

30 per cent of prison space is occupied by foreigners a majority of them illegal aliens.

Our schools, hospitals, and social infrastructure are to the breaking point in areas where illegal immigration is high. A number of hospitals have declared bankruptcy in the southwestern US.

Why are we forced to accommodate Spanish speakers? Why not Chinese, Polish, Russian and so on and so forth? What makes Latinos so special above everyone else? If we are going to allow millions of illegals in why not let everyone in?

The Catholic Church is counting on the illegal invasion to increase its church membership (Saw it on EWTN. Fr. Neuhaus was the speaker). Why don't they work to stop overpopulation and poverty in the countries where they dominate? Seems like those countries are all failures and ours is a success. I don't want this country to look like Latin America, do you? Anyone heard of the fifth column? Look it up and see what it means.

According to several places I have looked there apparently is no successful guest worker program in the world. It is an idea that is always fraught with problems. We have 12- 20 million illegals to deal with now. Let's not add more fuel to the fire by adding a guest worker program until we know we can succeed.

All illegal aliens should be immediately required to register so that we know who and where these people are. . Why in the world is a legal document (passport) required to visit Mexico and millions of law breakers are here without a single legal document and do just fine. Apparently the punishment for entering Mexico illegally is 6 years in prison. Why don’t the laws support the 280 million legal Americans?

And now we have thousands of illegals waving other countries flags demanding to be treated like American citizens. What the heck is going on in this country?

Let's be Americans first by securing our borders and ports. Those who break the laws -employers and illegal aliens should be punished with the laws that are already on the books.

Our country should be sending economic development troops to these poor countries instead of invading Iraq. Help these people help themselves. We can not accept everyone.

PS. I am a card carrying Democrat. But I am an American first. Stop Illegal Immigation Now.

The big piece of the picture that is being missed is the fact that they see Americans as Europeans intruding on their land. That is the reason why you see all illegals waving the Mexican flag. People from either party needs to start seeing it the way that it is. These illegal people went out into droves protesting and all the while carrying Mexican flags. Did anyone actually READ what was on the signs they carried?

This is going to turn into a huge mess, and it has nothing to do with wages. We need to secure our borders and kick the people who don't want to assimilate into American way of life OUT!!!

I am appalled and amazed at how it seems the Black community is simply pushed aside in so many areas of decisions being made in the U.S. today. I am particulary amazed at how the party that is supposed to be for us is doing little to absolutely nothing to address the needs of African Americans and blue collar whites. But in this case I am speaking more specifically for African Americans. It seems that you are all dancing around not the May, but the "Political Poll." It is almost like you are blind to what is actually going on around you and what the true feelings are about illegal immigration. Where all of these conflicting polls are coming from, I can't even imagine. Do you really think you are expressing the true feelings of born in the USA; here through generations; LEGAL; tax paying (when not even getting a fare shake educationally, economically or socially) African Americans. Or is it just that you are pushing us to the side and think that you already have our vote in a nutshell.

It is constantly stated that the illegal (undocumented is double speak) immigrants are only taking jobs that Americans do not want. How crazy! You mean to tell me that suddenly all of the Blacks working in parking lots, doing construction, working as waiters, bus boys and short order cooks, landscapers, cement layers suddenly looked up one day and said oh the illegals are here we don't need these jobs any more, we'd rather be unemployed and homeless or on the edge of it. We are not ignorant. We are aware that they are taking jobs at a lower rate of pay, and therefore bringing down (or at least stifiling)the rates of pay for others. But, there was just a report out on the conditions of Black men in America. Their rates of unemployment run into the 50 percents and then some. How is this okay? And housing. Yes, we are aware (because they came into our neighborhoods first) that they can live together in large groups and pool their money to pay rents. It would have been impossible for African Americans to do that. In a private home yes, but in apartments, no. You had a lease, when the lease expired you renewed your lease or you moved. There were stringent rules on how many people could abode in a resident. There are so many rules that have been put aside for them that it is both ridiculous and insulting.

All Blacks get after years of Slavery, Jim Crowe, last hired-first fired, redlining, bad press, unjust prison sentences, bad schools and overpriced bad housing is ignored, undermined, and practically told to be patient, yet again. It is insulting considering all of the above(and then some)for you to turn a blind eye and ear and assume that it is no problem to watch our tax dollars go to house; feed; hospitalize; give special programs to people who are here illegally. We see that they take summer jobs and after school jobs from our children; take lower paying jobs (from people who usually worked two or more of those jobs to support their families [yet suddenly "hard working" seems to only be used in print lately to describe the illegal immigrants]). Add to that the fact that a lot of these same people are predjudiced and arrogant toward Blacks.

Come on we are not even quite 40 years into voter rights for African Americans and yet, you expect us to be pleased and accept with open arems a new people who are getting away with all sort of crime (false papers; false and fraudulent identification; fradulent use of social security numbers, be they made up or stolen) and violence; who evade rules right and left (putting up food stands where they well feel like it. Food licenses anyone?); evade taxes; and ARE HERE ILLEGALLY.

Does the Democratic party even pay attention or ever listen to African American radio or read African American newspapers or look at their opinion polls. You will find that, no, overall we are certainly not please with the route politicians seem to be taking to give amnesty to the illegal immigrants that are already here and to have a guest worker program. We are not pleased with the affirmative action that we fought and marched for with our blood, sweat and tears, be given on a silver platter to aliens, yet our civil rights have been constantly being stepped on and down played. We are treated wosre than step children, yet this country was built on our backs.

It is shameful. My sign is name is such because, my, my, my how soon you all seem to forget. But we (except for maybe Clarence Thomas types out there) remember.

You Democrats need to get up with the pulse of the African American community. I have always voted Democrat, but my mind is changing very fast. I never thought I would consider voting Republican, but I am seeing a dull dividing line between the parties. This is either because the Democrats have become a really chicken party or their ideals have just changed. Some of the very Republican politicians you call to the carpet for their opinions against okaying illegal immigration are beginning to look worth studying. Maybe a candidate from a third party would be an even better consideration. (Can't seem to be able to do much worse.

I am only expressing here the feelings on immigration, but there are many, many other scathingly oppressive events that have occured toward African Americans that are not being addressed. Dr. King and other civil right leaders that have passed must be turning flips in there graves.

For Shame!

I am appalled and amazed at how it seems the Black community is simply pushed aside in so many areas of decisions being made in the U.S. today. I am particulary amazed at how the party that is supposed to be for us is doing little to absolutely nothing to address the needs of African Americans and blue collar whites. But in this case I am speaking more specifically for African Americans. It seems that you are all dancing around not the May, but the "Political Poll." It is almost like you are blind to what is actually going on around you and what the true feelings are about illegal immigration. Where all of these conflicting polls are coming from, I can't even imagine. Do you really think you are expressing the true feelings of born in the USA; here through generations; LEGAL; tax paying (when not even getting a fare shake educationally, economically or socially) African Americans. Or is it just that you are pushing us to the side and think that you already have our vote in a nutshell.

It is constantly stated that the illegal (undocumented is double speak) immigrants are only taking jobs that Americans do not want. How crazy! You mean to tell me that suddenly all of the Blacks working in parking lots, doing construction, working as waiters, bus boys and short order cooks, landscapers, cement layers suddenly looked up one day and said oh the illegals are here we don't need these jobs any more, we'd rather be unemployed and homeless or on the edge of it. We are not ignorant. We are aware that they are taking jobs at a lower rate of pay, and therefore bringing down (or at least stifiling)the rates of pay for others. But, there was just a report out on the conditions of Black men in America. Their rates of unemployment run into the 50 percents and then some. How is this okay? And housing. Yes, we are aware (because they came into our neighborhoods first) that they can live together in large groups and pool their money to pay rents. It would have been impossible for African Americans to do that. In a private home yes, but in apartments, no. You had a lease, when the lease expired you renewed your lease or you moved. There were stringent rules on how many people could abode in a resident. There are so many rules that have been put aside for them that it is both ridiculous and insulting.

All Blacks get after years of Slavery, Jim Crowe, last hired-first fired, redlining, bad press, unjust prison sentences, bad schools and overpriced bad housing is ignored, undermined, and practically told to be patient, yet again. It is insulting considering all of the above(and then some)for you to turn a blind eye and ear and assume that it is no problem to watch our tax dollars go to house; feed; hospitalize; give special programs to people who are here illegally. We see that they take summer jobs and after school jobs from our children; take lower paying jobs (from people who usually worked two or more of those jobs to support their families [yet suddenly "hard working" seems to only be used in print lately to describe the illegal immigrants]). Add to that the fact that a lot of these same people are predjudiced and arrogant toward Blacks.

Come on we are not even quite 40 years into voter rights for African Americans and yet, you expect us to be pleased and accept with open arems a new people who are getting away with all sort of crime (false papers; false and fraudulent identification; fradulent use of social security numbers, be they made up or stolen) and violence; who evade rules right and left (putting up food stands where they well feel like it. Food licenses anyone?); evade taxes; and ARE HERE ILLEGALLY.

Does the Democratic party even pay attention or ever listen to African American radio or read African American newspapers or look at their opinion polls. You will find that, no, overall we are certainly not please with the route politicians seem to be taking to give amnesty to the illegal immigrants that are already here and to have a guest worker program. We are not pleased with the affirmative action that we fought and marched for with our blood, sweat and tears, be given on a silver platter to aliens, yet our civil rights have been constantly being stepped on and down played. We are treated wosre than step children, yet this country was built on our backs.

It is shameful. My sign is name is such because, my, my, my how soon you all seem to forget. But we (except for maybe Clarence Thomas types out there) remember.

You Democrats need to get up with the pulse of the African American community. I have always voted Democrat, but my mind is changing very fast. I never thought I would consider voting Republican, but I am seeing a dull dividing line between the parties. This is either because the Democrats have become a really chicken party or their ideals have just changed. Some of the very Republican politicians you call to the carpet for their opinions against okaying illegal immigration are beginning to look worth studying. Maybe a candidate from a third party would be an even better consideration. (Can't seem to be able to do much worse.

I am only expressing here the feelings on immigration, but there are many, many other scathingly oppressive events that have occured toward African Americans that are not being addressed. Dr. King and other civil right leaders that have passed must be turning flips in their graves.

For Shame!

If we want to try to stop illigal imigration, it has to be done with the people that give them jobs knowing they are illigal. You can put fences, hire thousands of boder patrolmen and you can't stop it if we put them to work.When someone hires an illigal, they should be the one who pays the price, instead we send them back to return again. If you don't do this, you simply open everything up and have no illegals.You can't have it both ways and that is what this MCCain Bill tries to do. Calm the public and keep the cheap labor.

I don't hear all this noise about the higher paying jobs leaving this country with Bush's blessing,so don't try to use the loss of jobs excuse and say you will switch parties. If anyone would continue to be screwed by these Republicans on every issue only because the immigration issue isn't to his liking, he has bigger problems.

I'm sorry to say this but if this is the direction the Democratic party is going, I plan on voting Republican for the rest of my life. I have always voted Democratic but this decision does not make sense to me. I have other friends here that have to work hard in order to keep their green card status and to get work visa's, why is it different for these people. I know there are 11 million and that is a huge number to work with but damn, if we did it right to start with we wouldn't be in this mess. I believe we should be fining the hell out of these companies hiring illegal immigrants, getting some money back. I'm sick of paying taxes to pay for illegal immigrants to get school and medical when I'm struggling to pay for my own. Yesterday I listened to someone that thought we should give them free student loans and grants for college. Damn, I'm struggling to find enough money to put my own kid through college, now I'm going to pay for someone else's kid that doesn't even belong in this country! I believe the Democrat's better change their ways quickly or there won't be much of a party left.

There seem to be problems with the Time Magazine poll mentioned in the post. Click my name for one discussion, and more here.

Important people in both parties are out of touch with the American people when it comes to immigration.

I don't know anyone who supports the idea that illegal immigrants should be given the opportunity to remain in the United States. Nor do I know of anyone who doesn't recognize the fact that illegal immigrants have take jobs away from Americans and at the same time help to lower wages across the board in mnay industries and trades.

The construction industry in North carolina is one. You can't find a crew that isn't made up of illegals who are working for a lot less than the American who held that job five or ten years ago.

Too bad illegals can't compete for elected office...then we see some real immigration regorm.

Three illegal immigrant laborers arrested in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania They were brought in by a North Carolina company who was building a drug store.

One hundred twenty people believed to be illegal immigrants arrested at a WalMart distribution center construction site in Schuykill County Pennsylvania.

A Texas company gets the contract to install fiber optic conduit in the Pittsburgh area. They bring in illegal immigrants to do the work.

Does this sound like the illegal immigrants are only taking jobs that people here won’t take?

Illegal immigrants are being exploited by contractors to keep their labor cost down so they can under bid local companies and this takes work away from local people.

Why are we not punishing the people who hire these illegal immigrants? If there were no jobs there would be no illegals!

I will not vote for any Democrat who supports a guest worker program or allowing illegals to remain in this country

I am a mexican student in the US. I'm not illegal, I was born in California and I think that this bill was proposed as something that would be very helpful. Instead this bill has been very contriversial and has made many people angry. I do not agree that illeagal immigrants should be allowed to work here and then be asked to leave. That's very unfair to them. I also disagree with what people say that hispanics are taking all the good jobs, thats not true! Without hispanics or other immigrants who would clean the bathrooms in public places? Who would do all the dirty jobs for very little money? I don't know what you call a good job, but if thats your idea of one i'm sure they'll have no problem trading with you.

I am totally against any continued support of ILLEGAL ALIENS i refuse to GIVE UP speaking ENGLISH. I will not be forced into speaking SPANGLISH...nor support the over run of MEXICANS sucking medicare and wefare services for all my ancestors who fought and died for AMERICA.

Until the democratic party remembers who their traditional core is they will continue to wonder why they keep losing elections. Clinton sold us every working man and woman in the country down the road with nafta. Now they are at it again giving amnesty to ILLEGAL aliens.

Is anyone else ASTOUNDED that the ICE routinely gives 24 hours (or more) notice that it will be inspecting jobsites?
"Golly, we just can't FIND any illegals!"
Hmmmm. What a charade!

The Democrat party is just spitting in our face right now and telling us they don't care whether we vote for them or not.I guess they feel that if they make citizens of these illegals they won't eventually need us. They may get fooled though.It's time that we started standing up for ourselves. When they tell us that we cannot fly the American flag because we might offend illegals there is something terribly wrong.

Dean, Kennedy, Kerry, Bush, McCain, little rich kids all, aren't worried that an illegal will take their job. Do you think their kids or grandchildren will ever have to compete against illegals for work? Or to get into college?

I hope McCain puts his money where his mouth is and pays people $50 an hour to pick lettuce. After his wealth is depleted in about one year I look forward to see him working part time in WalMart to make ends meet.

If it takes another disgusting Republican administration to have closed borders, I'll vote Republican.

There's something badly wrong with Time Magazine's survey. Looking to me like 8 out of ten out here in the world want illegal immigrants to be dealt with as the criminals they are. I've been a Democrat and a Union worker all my adult life. Now I'm having to write support letters to hard right conservatives to carry on the fight on an issue that ought to be a no brainer for "the working man's Party". Looking like it's goodbye time unless this Party gets in touch. Do what you want, believe what you will. See you in November.

I have been a Democrate my whole life, Ive worked for the party, I proudly have on my wall the Inaugural committee invitation to attend President Jimmy Carter, and Vice President Mondale in Washington, I have worked for my party all my life, and now I am totaly dissapointed in our stance on imigration to the point I may, if things dont change vote Republican next election, you havbe no idea how hard it is for me to say that, Why??

1. Maria Cantwell will not support deporting convicted felons, no will my party push for it. Are not our children and grandchildren in enough danger from home grown fellons?

You will not secure the boarders of our country, which is the sworn duty of you Armed Forces.

You are letting ILLEGAL ALIENS, (not undocumewnted people, call it what it is for Gods sake,) run roughshod over your own consituants because you want the Latino vote?

You had better listen up, or you will have enough Democrats jumping ship, that will finish the Democratic Party next election we the silent majority of Democrats, will remember. We will not only not regain 15 seats in the house, we will loose a buch.

Get in there and stick up for the American worker, pay a living wage, most of the so called migrant workers are not in the fields, where the hell do you think 12 million of them are, they are in the main stream and taking the American workers jobs.

Sombody at the DNC answer me back please and explain it to me.

All I see are flags of other countries on our streets, and we are being threatened with all sorts of reprisals if they dont like the laws an American Congress passes.

Give me a break.......

I have been a Democrate my whole life, Ive worked for the party, I proudly have on my wall the Inaugural committee invitation to attend President Jimmy Carter, and Vice President Mondale in Washington, I have worked for my party all my life, and now I am totaly dissapointed in our stance on imigration to the point I may, if things dont change vote Republican next election, you havbe no idea how hard it is for me to say that, Why??

1. Maria Cantwell will not support deporting convicted felons, no will my party push for it. Are not our children and grandchildren in enough danger from home grown fellons?

You will not secure the boarders of our country, which is the sworn duty of you Armed Forces.

You are letting ILLEGAL ALIENS, (not undocumewnted people, call it what it is for Gods sake,) run roughshod over your own consituants because you want the Latino vote?

You had better listen up, or you will have enough Democrats jumping ship, that will finish the Democratic Party next election we the silent majority of Democrats, will remember. We will not only not regain 15 seats in the house, we will loose a buch.

Get in there and stick up for the American worker, pay a living wage, most of the so called migrant workers are not in the fields, where the hell do you think 12 million of them are, they are in the main stream and taking the American workers jobs.

Sombody at the DNC answer me back please and explain it to me.

All I see are flags of other countries on our streets, and we are being threatened with all sorts of reprisals if they dont like the laws an American Congress passes.

Give me a break.......

I used to think your party reprented me, a believer in our country, and what it stand for. I was born in Alex., across the river,and was always raised to RESPECT the law,fight for our nation (which I volunteered to do so, air force '79-'84)and to work for what I expect to receive. Your adress to the nation sounded good, now PROVE it! All I see is you guys sucking up to LAW BREAKERS,homo's,commies, and subversives. Don't label me either, I'm a free thinker. I will split my vote this time, for whomever stand up for the real America's ideals. (What's left of it.)Read Roosevelt's credo concerning Immigrants also, couldn't have said it better. Study the difference between settlers, and immigrants also. My German ancestors ACCLIMATED, and respected the law.Get it together, and yes Bush has sold us out also, to revenge the "hit" attempt on Daddy B. Get us out of Iraq, How many BILLION, so far, for Cheney and his cronies? While americans go to bed hungry. Get it together, for OUR nations sake, not THEIRS. Thanks, Tim

Silverman,
Well, I see where you are coming from. Hey, that is why we are a democracy. All opinions are welcomed to the debate to bring out the right rather the wrong at the end of the day. Listen, if that many people have broken our immigration laws, then there is something wrong with both the law and the people who have broken these laws.
I am sure our fore fathers or whomever was first from our respective families to arrive in this country many years ago probably went through the same bashing and unfeeling that today illegal immigrants are witnessing from many whom advocate they should be deported. And I just wonder what our forefathers would probably think of today’s immigration debate. It was so bad for the Irish people in this country at one time that job signs( help wanted signs) in America carried the words ‘No Irish Please’
Look 12 million people did not arrive here just in one year or two. This happened because our government failed to enforce the law consistently and effectively. Now we have 12 million people on our hands and it is not practical that we criminalize and deport all of them. Letting them earn some form of legalization is in keeping with what this country stands for – Freedom and Liberty.
That said, many will make it to citizenship, but also many will not. Many will not be able to meet the requirements to be eligible to earn legalization. Many will probably die before they are able to make it, and many will just on their own return back to their country because they prefer the country they were originally from. It is possible some are just looking to save enough money from working here, after which they want to go back home to start a business of their own.
On a serious note, most people have not sat down to think deeply about how horrendous life will suddenly become if we were to remove 12 million people from our country, and from the jobs that they are currently doing, and deport them back to their respective countries. It is an understatement to say that this country will see CHAOS beyond what you and I can just imagine while seating comfortable on our couches and watching TV. Working and middle class people especially will be hurt really bad. For instance, it will no longer be cheap to buy your groceries at the store (How are we going to replace the farm workers). Many public places including hospitals will have their toilets shut down because they can’t keep up with the cleaning. Disease could break out as a result and kill americans. Many Americans will probably not be able to afford to eat at a McDonalds or most restaurants for that matter. Most of our road construction projects will grind to a halt, and that means more traffic and terrible road conditions. The cost of building a home will rise, and the dream of owning a home, held by many Americans will fly out the window. Many Americans will have to resign their jobs because they can no longer pay the high cost of daycare (it’s already happening now) or pay to have someone look after their children so they can go to work. It will probably take forever the next time you try to get your car fixed. Sanitary conditions in our cities will go from good to bad and to worse if we can’t find people to keep up with the cleaning. Many businesses, especially one-man businesses will fail when they can’t find minimum wage workers. Many of our state and local governments will see their tax revenues decline because of the high rate of business failures. Many businesses will end up outsourcing jobs to countries where labor is cheap and that would further shrink tax revenues for our local and state governments. This is just a bird eye view of what could happen if we suddenly start rounding up and deporting illegals, and by no means an exhaustive inventory of things that are likely to happen. I tell you what, most of us have had it so good in this country that we really can’t picture how bad things could get. When we saw the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, we were blown away so much by it, but the fact remains that people in other countries go through worse every year. Many of us need to visit outside this country to realize how blessed we are, and why many are willing to die just to come to our country illegally and do the odd and back breaking jobs in this country.
I sincerely think all of our interests are best and well served in the long run by legalizing the illegals. The economic indicators are doing okay. Unemployment at 4.8% is at it’s lowest. Europe with all its restrictive immigration policies still has 40% unemployment. It makes no sense to criminalize people here with the agenda to work hard but unfortunately, who are illegals as well.
Let's all go back and read about our nation's histry on immigration, and also resaerch on the current legal way people are expected to follow to come to this country. Most of us will be surprised by what we will find. A lot of half truths are thrown around in this debate. And some people are capitalizing on the ignorance of many to mask their true agenda in this debate. As a democrat, you have to wise up fast.

Only 34 percent of working-age people with disabilities had full time or part time jobs in 1986. In 2004, the figure was 35 percent, according to surveys done by the National Organization on Disability in conjunction with the Harris Survey. People without disabilities have an employment rate of 78 percent.

People with disabilities are nearly three times more likely to live in poverty than people without disabilities; 26 percent of people with disabilities had an 2004 annual household income below $15,000, versus 9 percent of those without disabilities, the survey found.

Basically, 80% of people with disabilities are lacking a full-time job. This rate has remained constant for the past 20 years (1986 illegal alien amnesty). Democrats will now import young healthy workers from Mexico to replace our disabled population taking away their jobs, their hope and their future! Shame!

"Europe with its restrictive immigration policies" What nonsense. Europe has been overrun by immigrants and it is causing major problems. England, France, the Netherlands, Gewrmany all have very large immigrant populations that are having tremendous difficulty assimilating. Most of them are Muslims.

The problem with the fear that deporting illegal's is it is just another scare tactic created to devert the attention of the American public while the government allows amnesty to the Companies that hire them and the Churches that need them in their pockets as well.

And please Latinos writing on this blog, stop and I do say stop, comparing all latinos as "toilet cleaners".

The problem on the West coast and around the country is that American Mexicans who own companies or are in high positions in the companies they work for as over seers, are just as guilty of exploiting their illegal brothers and sisters as any other Business owner in this country and they don't want their bread and butter any other way. They directly reap what the illegals Latino worker sows. How nice that they can use their labor organizations to back up their monsterous slave projects while the people who are going through the legal immigration system already have rights and are protected by the laws of America.

An immigrant with legal working papers can apply for any job in the United States LEGALLY and they don't have to CLEAN TOILETS if you have to use this assinine description.

Oh, and for histories sake, let's take a look at the Irish when they arrived in the united States. The men were immediately recruited to fight in the Civil War or pushed back on the boat they came on, and sent back!!

This country's leadership is writing a bill only targeting the Illegal victims of our modern day slave market and not addressing the crimes being committed by the corporations who hire them. Ask any illegal woman what happens if they refuse an overseers sexual advances. Wow, reality paints a different picture when you really look at the evils committed by the Evil people who use these ignorant and vulnerable illegal workers.

I know people who just started a construction business. In one year they were able to add 3 rooms onto their house plus a double stall garage, buy all the trucks and equipment they need for paving for the business, and oh yah, a corvett. How nice.

This new bill will allow them to now bid for State and Federal contracts which they have previously been unable to do, because thier workers are illegal folks. So, when you talk about the fact that this will work against the American workers you are all correct. The democrats better be aware that this is the Biggest upset to their coveted November elections as ever seen.

At least if they are going to allow a bigger Amnesty bill to relieve the illegals of the burden of responsibilty, then the one passed in the 1980's, do something to allow the pride of those who will comply with the new law and be pushed out of jobs like us Americans because companies will have to comply with the labor laws for these individuals.

The Companies will still hire "Illegals" under these new conditions and push the one's who comply with the laws out so that they can continue their exploitive practices as it behooves them. After all, it is the labor laws and the tax burden they are trying to dodge.

Where's the hipocrasy? Well, I guess, when you see these Mexican Americans out on the streets protesting, ask them what they are protesting against. It would do well that they forget the past and fight for thier future rights in the right corner. It's the American corner Latino's!!

Quit the bull and get to the truth. Don't help the people who will continue to exploit your illegal brothers ans sisters.

Be AN AMERICAN first. Your eyes will quickly open then.

And another thing, When are the churches going to pay thier fair share in taxes? They seem to stick thier nose in the American laws just as much as the Corporations do when it comes to their own interests.

If you think that any of the churches lend a hand to the poor this is ludicrous. When I was a single mom and went to my Church (Roman Catholic)whom I was a member all my life and begged for food, I was turned away with Nothing!!! After all those Sunday tithes my family and I paid. I got NOTHING!!!!
ZILCH!!!!!!

There's your church for yah.

I've been a democrat for years but I can not support anyone who is for a guest worker program and who does not put absolute border security at the top of their agenda.

The Democratic Party supposedly supports equal opportunity for all Americans.

It appears that if you don't have a college degree and have to work with your back and hands the Democratic leadership would just as soon give an illegal immigrant the same opportunity for getting a job as you have.

I guess it salves their conscience somehow to think they are helping the poor immigrant forgetting that it's at the expense of their fellow American.

The Democratic solution is as far out as the Republican. There must be serious steps taken to control our borders for the safety of this country. Sitting around patting yourselves on the back for being so liberal just won't cut it any more. Furthermore, you need to show the American people how your solution will aid this country financially, and how you propose to supply these illegals with health care, education, food, and housing without it costing the tax payers additional money over the years. This country is in very bad shape financially, and steps must be taken to correct this situation.

In case you wonder, I am an independent who has voted Democratic for the past two elections.

You can't stop illegals from entering this country. The term illegal means it has been against the law to do so in the past but stopping them hasn't worked. With the so called free trade agreement, we opened our borders to caravans of trucks caring everything from immigrants to most of the drugs that come in to the country. If you searched every truck,corporate America would be screaming, and free trade Republicans would have to eat their words on the benefits of unrestricted free trade. It is simply a political ploy. They don't want to stop illegals or they would have done it over the past six years and they don't won't to stop the drugs that are coming the same way or they would have done that also. Why now during an election year? All they are trying to do is split the Democratic party any way the can because they are in trouble.

Republicans posting on this board claiming to be Democrats, and ordinary working citizens, are simply blowing smoke and trying to drive a wedge in our unity. Illegal immigrants are not breaking the bank because if we do our jobs correctly they cannot get benefits. A few might but they are doing far less damage to this country than the Big Oil companies who are robbing us every day. Where are all these Republicans when Exxon tells us they made 30 Billion in one quarter? Tell me that doesn't affect working Americans when you pay for your gas as well as every business and government agency that passes their increase on to you. If a true Democrat would vote Republican simply on the immigration issue, no matter what it is, they deserve to be screwed.What our focus should be is getting every Republican out of office any way we can and keep them out. That is when our lives will get better. Worrying about someone slipping across the border is simply stupid.

I have been a Democrat my whole life because I thought you stood for the middle class and poor. Now I find out that you are no better than the Republicans. You stand for the big business,I lost my job because it was moved to Mexico,Now you tell me that you want to let 20 million iLLEGAL Immigrants buy their Citzenship,No wonder we Democrates,cannot win a election.I don't know pole you are reading that says most Americans want this.If you democrats don't start standing up for the middle class again,I don't know how I will vote in the next election.Get your hands out of businesses pockets and do what we voted you in for.I was also a union member most of my lifeand now thay are also for lower wages and no middle class in the United States.I will never join another Union.

I have voted Democratic every election since I became old enough to vote because I thought that they stood for the middle class and poor of America,Now I find out you are the same as the Republicans,Whatever business wants so do the Democrats.I lost my job because it moved to Mexico,now you want me to say let 20 milion into this country,so that I will have to work for lower wages.I am sick of you people telling me there are jobs Americans won't do. who did them before all of these Illigals came into this country. My job was a union job and now the union supports this crap too,I will never join another union,and I don't see how I can vote for another Democrat if they want to let Ilegals buy there Citizenship.What has our party become.sell everything in America,lower wages,purchase only things made in other country's and to hell with the middle class of America,it is no longer needed.

Drob, I'm with you on many things but the middle class is needed. We are needed to make the money to fund the lower income and welfare system and to do the work the companies need until they leave our country. I personally believe we need another party, one that believes what the middle income class wants and needs, that is no longer the Democratic party and it sure isn't the Republican party. I'm having some severe issues over what these two parties have come up with as a good middle group way of dealing with this immigration issue. I'm trying to figure out how my friends are feeling right now that are from countries like Germany that have legal green cards here and they fight tooth and nail to keep their green card active or else they get deported. Why is it that every other country has to do this the legal way but if you sneak into our country from Mexico you are okay?

you people are stupid if you think that your not going to lose the country! Our party is either out of touch or living in the world of the stupid. I have from this day on had my name removed from the democratic party rolls and I am seriously considering changing my party affiliation and hoping that Tom Tancredo runs for the presidency. FDR would roll over in his grave with the way that his party has become.

you people are stupid if you think that your not going to lose the country! Our party is either out of touch or living in the world of the stupid. I have from this day on had my name removed from the democratic party rolls and I am seriously considering changing my party affiliation and hoping that Tom Tancredo runs for the presidency. FDR would roll over in his grave with the way that his party has become.

"Expanding economic opportunity. Democrats believe that the most effective means of increasing opportunity for our families is a high quality, good paying job. We are committed to expanding economic opportunity to all Americans and creating the new jobs of the future."

The above was taken from the Democratic Agenda.

Let's change the word "Americans" to "Americans, Mexicans, Salvadorans, Panamanians and other illegals". Our party is not acting like a party for the American people.

Why don't we invite Mexico's president Vincente Fox to give the nomination speech in 2008.

I also think Vicente Fox owes African Americans a big apology for his offensive comments.

He did - almost a year ago.

The law is the law and it's wrong to reward people for breaking the law and it's also a slap in the face to people who moved to the United States but did it the right and legal way.

The "guest worker" program is nothing more than a work visa - they all already have jobs - they all already qualify for a work visa - they wouldn't get citizenship ahead of anyone else.

Posted by dorsano

I hardly call that an apology, Vicente Fox said he regrets but never came out and said the words "I'm sorry I was wrong". Also how do you explain the offensive postage stamp Mexico has with a cartoon of a monkey and writing says "Black Sambo" or something in that nature? I remember Lou Dobbs reporting about that several months ago, I forget exactly word for word what he said but the point is that it's still offensive to African Americans. I think that's rude and President Bush's idea of his so called guest worker program is nothing more than another form of amnesty and it's giving big business in the United States a free pass to pay cheap labor so that American workers get screwed out of jobs because they don't want to pay a decent salary and the people from Mexico who are doing these jobs are also getting screwed by cheap pay. In otherwords nobody wins, both sides are getting screwed.

This is a hot button issue with the vast majority of
working Americans. This problem has been festering for
decades due to the lack of true statesmen in both
political parties. Our politicians have enacted many
laws with the praise of their constituents, that
helped them in their election campaigns. They then
turn a blind eye when it comes to enforcing these
laws, giving a wink and nod at the entities breaking
these laws (corporations and people that hire illegal
workers). Since we cannot afford the 6 billion people
that wish to be U.S. citizens, it is vital to our
national security that we act immediately to pass
meaningful laws with true consequences for those that
violate them.
I am getting sick and tired of hearing that the
illegal workers are only doing jobs that Americans
will not do. Tell that to the millions of "Americans"
that used to make a decent, honest, hard work living
in construction, manufacturing, warehouse, oilfield,
industrial cleaning and even landscaping services.
Legal Americans just can't compete with the wages
given to illegal workers. The companies that use these
illegal workers don't even pass on the savings of this
"cheap" labor to the final consumer. The word cheap is
used loosely as it is only cheap for the employer. It
is not cheap to the American tax payer that is forced
to pay billions of dollars to maintain these illegal
workers and their families.
The very first thing we need is to have our
politicians change the laws in the 14th amendment to
read that at least one parent of a child born on
American soil must already be an American citizen in
order for that child to be a citizen. This is
critical.
We do not have to have convoys of buses shipping
illegals out of the country as I've heard so many
critics of immigration reform talking about the
impossibility of deporting illegals. All we have to do
is eliminate the possibility for work, free health
care and all welfare perks now given to the illegals
and their families.
Any applicant for a job should have to furnish their
social security card, drivers license, birth
certificate, finger prints, digital photo, permit a
background check and perform a face to face interview
with the person doing the hiring. Any company or
person that is found to be working an illegal (that
any reasonable person should know that they are
illegal) should face a fine so extreme that they would
never repeat the act. If they are found in violation a
second or more times, the fine should be multiplied
with possible criminal charges.
Any "coyote" caught transporting or harboring
illegals should be charged with criminal human
trafficking with severe penitentiary time.
Their are many church and human rights groups that
aid in the journey of these illegals from the country
of origin to the final destination, aiding the
illegals in getting indoctrinated with the government
aid and placing them with prospective employers. These
groups think they are doing a noble deed for an
impoverished people but they are doing it while
expecting us (tax payers) to foot the bill. If they
wish to help these people improve their life in their
own country I applaud them but once they break the law
and help them get here or stay here, they become
criminals. They should be subject to civil and
criminal punishment. no exceptions.
After passing and enforcing these laws the illegal
workers will be forced to return to their countries on
their own. If after 6 months any illegal caught in
this country should be fully processed and documented
as a criminal and deported with no possible
opportunity of ever coming back as a legal immigrant
and possible citizen.
This is a workable plan that if not implemented our
great nation will become another third world country
within the near future. There are other countries with
immigration problems with whole neighborhoods burning
and riots by the immigrants demanding better
treatment. How far are we from those situations?
I, as most Americans do have compassion for those in
other countries but they should unite and make their
own country provide opportunities for them.
The population of this planet is growing so fast it
will soon reach the saturation point. I can remember
around 40 years ago planned parenthood tried to
furnish birth control to third world countries but was
attacked by the Catholic church as being evil. If something is not done about the expanding population
and shrinking resources of this planet our children
and grand children face a bleak future.
I don't care about how the political spinners are wording their poll questions to Americans about how they feel on this issue. I can promise you that the overwhelming majority of Americans will not be happy with the status-quo or amnesty for the millions of illegals in this country. I am an active Teamster that has always voted democrat except once for Reagan who screwed us.
The republicans are split right now with the corporations and business leaders wanting the illegal workers to stay (for obvious reasons) while the rank and file republicans wanting their jobs and wages back. I cannot for the life of me understand why the Democratic politicians are on the side of the corporate elite and against the American worker on this issue.
Now is the perfect time for our party to bring millions of Republican voters to the Democratic side with a strong immigration pro American labor bill. I can promise you that if the Democratic leaders sell the American worker down the river with an amnesty bill, the Republicans will keep their majority in November and lose any hope for the next President being a Democrat.

This immigration deal is nothing more than a Republican jobs program.
This is the best they can do to provide jobs for the un and under-employed.
Walls and deportation and felony action were just put up to bring this guest worker plan floated a few months ago and ignored, back into play as the "compromise" move.
Where did this 12 million number come from?
Has anyone bothered to look at countries with guest worker programs in place? How do they work?
From what Ive read, they dont.
The "guest worker" feels like a second class citizen, like many of us are begining to and wind up resenting the country for the low wages and long hours and start causing trouble.
Most Americans are ignorant on this subject, therefore this processed must be slowed until we can look at the REALITY of this issue and come up with a long term solution.
The brazero program left thousands of "guest workers" due $$ by the US Govt that to this day has not been paid.
Its time we stop being Lemmings and get the facts!

Just wanted to weigh in for what its worth. As a conservative but hopefully enlightened Democrat for the last 20 years, my position has always been that there is no greater, nor more sacred responsibility of our federal government than the protection of the sovereignty of our borders and the integrity of our citizenship. I'm proud of my US Citizenship and I'm here to tell you that it is not for sale and it will not be bargained with. Republicans lied to us with their last amnesty, saying that it would be the beginning of ending illegal immigration in America. They have had a vested interest in insuring that their best constituents (big business, big agriculture) are provided with an endless supply of cheap peaseant labor with no benefits, no protections, and no rights. They in effect declared war on middle class Americans (including legal hispanic immigrants and hispanic Americans. Republicans have had control of Congress since 1994, the presidency with the State Department since 2000 and have done nothing. For years, we working Americans have been staring in amazement and anger at the parking lots filled with illegals on Saturday mornings flounting (with bemused indifference) our citizenship in our faces, in our neighborhoods that we grew up in. Finally the anger from America could not be ignored even by politicians. Now the Republican right-wing is about to incompetently mismanage this horrendously important issue like everything else they've paid lip service to. Nothing will happen. Don't blame the Mexicans for taking the path of least resistence. Many Americans such as myself are all in favor of a well regulated, closely supervised work permit system. Start systematically, publically prosecuting and arresting superintendents and CEOs of large contractors in every major city in the US and I think the problem will largely take care of itself. But first we secure the southern border - it can be done. If we make this a top priority in America, we can take the years necessary to process and yes, if necessary, deport millions in a systematic and humane way. Presidente Fox needs to be made to see how it is in his best interest to cooperate. Democrats believe in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the rule of law and only Democrats can make this happen by resolve and common sense, with every major human rights organization participating.

I've heard it said that if a person breaks into your home, what are you going to do? Call the police to remove the intruder or are you going to make a new law that allows the intruder to stay permanently in your home. The first decision to protect your country is that simple.

We Americans together with legal immigrants on the road to US Citizen (through the front door) can do our own dirty work thank you. Don't let the right-wing fraudulently steal this issue.

Republicans are trying to change the subject.
And as usual they have succeeded. The real topics in order of importance are:
Iraq-The mess they have created, the billions they have lost.
Homeland Security-Again, the mess they created, the billions they have wasted.
Healthcare-We are building an underclass in this country, with the Insurance companies deciding what care we should get based on our policy status!
This issue is a back burner issue.
We should stand up and get the conversation back on track.
We can return to the immigration issue when these other more pressing issues are resolved.
Dont be lemmings, check the facts.
CP

Tom, I agree with your post but have you listened to our Democratic leaders wanting to give everything short of a new mansion to the illegal workers? Why, if the majority of "legal" Americans want American borders and jobs protected, do our Democratic politicians slap us in the face with their amnesty proposals?
TO ALL DEMOCRAT POLITICIANS : YOU BETTER WAKE UP AND SEE WHICH WAY THE POLITICAL WIND IS BLOWING IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR JOB!! AMERICA IS DEMANDING YOUR PARTICIPATION IN DOING THE RIGHT THING!!

Unlike a lemming CP, I do know the facts.
While I agree with you that Iraq, Homeland Security, healthcare & a host of other issues are vital, none of these issues have a bill coming up for a vote that could turn America into a 3rd world country. This is one of the most important issues for individual Americans and our country as a whole that we have ever faced.

Something that is making me damned mad is those trying to claim that ALL TRUE DEMOCRATS are for amnesty and only ReThug trollz are coming here to say that is not right.

WRONG!

When you simply refuse to believe that a lot of DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS AND ReThugs then you are doing the same thing the ReThugs are accused of, and that is drinking the Koolaid.

Sorry but that's not how it goes. I've yet to really meet a democrat who is all for this crud of giving amnesty to illegals. You can couch the words "GUEST WORKERS" anyway you want but all it is doing now according to several news reports today is giving hope of amnesty and driving up the cost of getting smuggled in the USA FOURFOLD. If it cost 2 grand to be smuggled in the cost has now gone to EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS!

Why because the Mexican stations and rumor mills in Mexico are claiming that Amnesty is a done deal and if you get in now you can get the forged documents to make it look like you have been here for 5 years or more.

Oh and that crud about illegals putting EIGHTY GRAND MORE THAN WHAT THEY GET???

Oh puhleeze, not even Koolaid drinkers can swallow that.

[b]Although illegals do contribute to the tax system, they are a net drain financially, even considering the taxes they contribute. There are simply too many of them. Further, they take jobs that should go to our own middle class and poorer citizens, and would if they were not here. Their presence depresses wages for all lower strata jobs and causes small businesses to lose business to those who hire the illegals and therefore can undercut their job bids. Many small construction and similar businesses are struggling because to compete successfully they would have to dump their current employees and hire illegals like their competition already has. Illegals are a huge drain on public health and education, consuming resources that should go to help legal citizens. Because I'm basically a liberal, I am against illegal immigration because the persons it hurts the most are the poorer classes, both illegals and our own needy citizens.

It would be great if America and society could still afford unlimited immigration, but those days are gone. Our natural resources are strained with the number of people we have NOW - adding a million illegals per year will simply bring us to emergency that much sooner. What good will it have done us to let everyone in who wants to come, when by doing so we are insuring that our infrastructure, public services and water, electricity, etc., won't be able to handle it, leaving us all in want? Will people finally learn once the US turns into an overpopulated sinkhole where no one but the wealthy can survive? It is already predicted that rolling blackouts and brownouts are expected to be a regular occurrence starting in a few years, because of demand on the energy infrastructure and lack of natural resources - how much worse will it be when we are adding a million users per year that are illegals, in addition to the normal modes of population increase? We are already fighting over water supplies in the west and southwest. The old world is gone, and we have to make hard choices.

Cesar Chavez was against illegal immigration. He even led marches to the Mexican border to protest illegals. He knew it would hurt those he was working hardest for; the poor legal immigrants who could not compete with illegals who will be willing to work for even less wages. He worked hard to get legal immigrants better rights in the fields. But we are no longer living in the 1800's where we welcomed and needed all we could get to come here.

We are digging our own graves with our misguided generosity. We are paying for a badly run war that is going beyond all normal reason and was started on false premises. We are paying for a poorly run Medicare system. We are paying for corporate welfare. We cannot afford to welcome everyone who wants to come here. Sure, I wish it were different - but times have changed.[/b]

If it was up to many of our Repubs and Democratic leaders we'd give the country to Mexico in the interest of diversity and cheap labor for business.

Instead I suggest that the politicians give the issue to all Americans to vote. Make it a binding referendum. Then we'll solve the issue once and for all in the peoples' interests.

I wish it were that easy but instead we will have to wait till November and vote out all the idiots that aren't listening to the voice of America. I hope they will enjoy their new positions on the unemployment line.

Fred you are the typical Republican from the RNC trying to stir up Democrats with nonsense. What are you doing posting here to begin with if not propagandizing this issue. You don't agree with us on anything,remember. Not that you are telling the truth about anything you said but if your state government gives illegals money, it is your state government that needs fixing. If you lost your job to India, it is with the blessing of George Bush who has been in power for the last six years if you haven't noticed. If you cannot tell a legal from an illigal, how in the hell are you going to round them up and send them back and if you are for big oil companies robbing the working citizens of America, you are worse that a moron.

While I have compassion for the poor Mexican illegals living in this country, I have more compassion for the middleclass Americans who are falling further and further behind. I for one am tired of paying millions to educate their children in spanish (my ancestors came here in the early 1900's and learned English), I am tired of watching working poor go without healthcare (I work in a hosptial) while I watch illegals get medicaid for free) I am tired of paying higher insurance because they drive without it, I am tired of employers who hire them without consequences and lower wages for everyone else!!!! I want to see real border security, and if a wall is what it takes that is fine with me!! I am tired of pandering to them by providing spanish and educating their children. I do agree they need to get medical care in life threatening situations, but no other care should be provided to them. It raises the cost to all of the rest of us. I want to see employers punsished severly for hiring them!!!! I admit we cannot deport 11-20 million of them, but I don't think the penalties go far enough if we allow them to stay. Not only should they pay a fine, learn English, but they should pay back the states for the cost of medicaid as well!!! If they can't pay for what they have used then they should go back until they can. Why can't we have a national database. My husband and I recently re-located to New York from Texas and my husband could not get a New York drivers license for months because his middle name did not match on his Texas drivers license and birth certificate. How do they get drivers licenses???? Absolutely no services should be provided to them without either a birth certificate or a taper proof green card---------period!!!!
when is the democratic party going to actually represent middleclass Americans instead of just talk about it????

Denise, I agree with you 100%. Right now I'm wondering when we are going to change the national language to Spanish. We are catering way too much to illegal immigrants and we aren't even taking care of our own citizens. I know if I get layed off again (would be 3rd time since Bush), I will have to look at cobra, which is about $1k a month. That would wipe out my unemployment. I pay taxes and I pay for medicare, why can't I used medicare since people that have never paid a dime for it and are here illegally can use it? I really do not want to leave the Democratic party but they are not doing any good for me as a middle income US citizen. Maybe it is time for a 3rd party to stand up for the middle class citizens.

Our problem is not illegal immigrants getting benefits and stealing our jobs. Our problem is what has been going on in Washington DC for the last six years. Republicans have had total control so they are responsible for the destruction of the middle class and everything else that has lowered our standard of living. They control every committee that allows every piece of legislation to be voted on. They have the majority and the president to sign any bill. We are where they want us to be and it is these people we should blame, not some illegal immigrant. If we want to improve our lives, it has to start by changing out these guys that have put us where we are. Don't be distracted by some politician who says some Mexican has caused you all this. Where have they been for six years and what have they been doing? I'll tell you. They have been in DC plotting ways to rob the tax payers bank and they have done it.

deniesp....
Ah yes....I can't begin to state my frustration with the Democratic leaders and their ongoing pandering on this issue.

We should tell them to take a vote of membership on this issue. Better yet, we should tell them to get a job in the real world where they experience what we voters/workers have to deal with.

Our Democratic leaders in Congress are out of touch with party members and independent voters on the illegal immigration issue. Illegal immigration takes American construction jobs, depresses American wages, and drains tens of billions of dollars from US citizens each year in healthcare, public school and social services costs. What ever happened to standing up for the interests of Americans? The position of our Democtatic leasers in favor of guest-worker programs (amnesty) and more work visas for foreigners is insane. We may lose the current advantage we have over the GOP from all of their screw-ups because of the pro-amnesty DNC position.

What should be done now? The Sensenbrenner House bill is a good start. Secure the border and prosecute employers who hire illegal immigrants. If there is no work for illegals, they will return home.

I live in North Carolina. The construction industry here has been taken over by illegal immigrants. I thought the Democratic Party supported American labor not "illegal immigrant" labor.

But then what do soft handed, manicured nails, spoiled rich kids like Teddy Kennedy know about "labor"? Or about finding a job?

Several days ago while watching a panel discussion, the point was made. A Value Added Tax was no longer an option for a National tax. Without a manufacturing base, we have nothing to tax at each step of creating a product.

We no longer produce anything, when I have a problem with my AMERICA On Line I speak to someone in India, the ports where my new shirt arrived from China is managed by a foreign country, the protective body armor our soldiers wear is manufactured by a company owned in France, India now controls our fiber optic trunk lines and it just goes on and on and on.

So what's the solution? Flood the work force with low wage, Mexican workers that broke the laws of the United States in the first place. I am a carpenter, I do one of those jobs that no American wants to do. Only now I can do it for the PREVAILING MEXICAN WAGE $8.00 an hour.

As we saw in the Gulf Coast, Bush tried to suspend Davis Bacon. I have a bad feeling, its time is up.

With a Democratic party that has no spine, I guess New Zealand is looking better each day

Mexico has openly declared a "State of War" against lower wage Americans and Americas poor population. America has 72 million people without jobs. The rich elite in the Democratic Party have joined Mexico in this war against our poorest citizens. Illegal aliens in Mexico are felons! It is time to take care of our own and stop our party from racial preference for foreign workers over American workers!

"The percentage of young jobless black men continues to increase, part of a trend that generally hasn't abated in decades. In 2000, about 65 percent of black male high-school dropouts had no jobs, either because they couldn't find work or because they were in jail. By 2004, the studies found that number had grown to 72 percent. The numbers for young black men were higher than for whites and Hispanics similarly affected." (Article on MSNBC)

Dems are on wrong side of the issue again. For five years this party has been afraid to have an opinion on much of anything. Run from Feingold, run from the war, run, run, run...now that the Republicans are in their own war on illegal aliens, Teddy Kennedy has to come join McCain, of all GD people, and support illegals over the middle class. The Democratic Party is alienating its base. Keep it. We'll all stay home in 06 and 08. We are not stupid. If you can spend my tax dollars to round up, prosecute and jail 15 million illegal drug users, you can round up, prosecute and deport 11 million illegal alients. Dems are as corporate owned as the pugs.. We want publicly financed elections. We want our country back.

Coming Next: "El Gran Boicot"

Pro-immigrant coalition to paralyze US economy
by
Ernesto Cienfuegos
La Voz de Aztlan

Los Angeles, Alta California - March 31, 2006 - (ACN) The coalition that brought over 700,000 pro-immigrant rights marchers to Los Angeles announced yesterday that the next mass action will be "an economic and labor boycott that will paralyze the US economy". The planned boycott, which now has international support, is to protest the racist HR4437 legislation being debated in the US Senate.

Dr. Armando Navarro, coordinator of the National Alliance for Human Rights (NAHR), said "We are living through very dangerous times and we must take advantage of the moment. If we just sit and wait to see what happens, everything we have accomplished so far may go to waste. That is why we must continue the struggle to once and for all defeat that racist proposal (HR4437)".

Coalition member Roberto Reveles of "Unidos en Arizona" said that they will help host a "Summit Meeting" in Phoenix, Arizona to work out the details of the "international economic and labor boycott". The summit will take place on April 8th and 9th. The boycott will take place on May 1 (Day of the International Solidarity of Workers) or May 5 (Cinco de Mayo). To be debated is whether a boycott beginning on May 1 and ending with a huge "fiesta" on May 5 can be sustained.

Phoenix, Arizona saw a huge march and rally on March 24 in which over 15,000 participated. Roberto Reveles said, "What occurred on March 24 is a consequence of the people being tired of the treatment we are receiving. The first step has already been taken, we organized ourselves and have completed the first phase, now we have to prepare for the second. We will not rest until we see HR4437 defeated". Reveles added, "We are sure that the preparations we make at the summit will lead us to victory. We are united and only united will we be victorious".

The two day summit will be attended by Mexican-American and other Latino groups from Nevada, Texas, Wisconsin, Washington, New York, Chicago, California and other states. Representatives from Mexico, Central and South America will also be present. A major focus of the meeting will be to finalize the details of the boycott.

Dr. Armando Navarro of the NAHR said that the "international boycott" counts on the support of the consulates of Bolivia, Brazil, Venezuela, Colombia, Cuba and Mexico, as well as that of Mexican labor organizations. The coalition welcomes the support of other countries abroad.

"We have to demonstrate to the nation, one more time, that its economic stability depends on us. I am sure that our sister nations of Latin America, who are also tired of the situation, will unite with us", Professor Navarro said. "That is why we will celebrate May 1, 'Day of the Worker', with labor strikes, no purchases and go out and march. Soon they will see the impact we will have!", he concluded.

Oakland...you certainly hit the nail on the head there. The Democratic party is on the wrong side of their constituency.

The middle class are not suffering because of illegal immigrants.They are suffering because of big oil robbing them on their energy needs, health care organizations slamming them with spiraling costs for everything, corporations off shoring higher paying jobs with Bush's blessing, an economy that has provided them with less raises than inflation for the past five years, and the highest debt in the history of our country to pay back. Where are the Bush Republicans on all this? Quiet as a mouse. It is an insult on our intelligence to try to blame the destruction of our middle class on some illegal Mexican in this country. We are suffering because Republicans have sold out the middle class to Corporate America who provides them with the money that has been keeping them there. Don't pretend to be for us now when you have screwed us for six years. It won't wash.

Apparently not just the GOP is out of touch about immigration. We Democrats are taking a hand in destroying our country by standing idly by and letting invaders into our country.

What can we do?

Write letters. To congressman, senators, govenors, newpapers, clergy. Tell them to stop illegal immigration by enforcing our laws.
Also it is time to start reviewing the tax exempt status of the Catholic Church. These people are more in sympathy with their fellow Catholics in Mexico than they are with the welfare of their country. The Catholic church will stop at nothing to turn this country Catholic. Judge them by the fruits of their labors. They are not the majority in this country but we all stand around watching them take over like we watch illegals take over.

The Evangelical right and the Catholic heirachy are the new Pharisees and are the wolves in sheeps clothing. They are the clanging gongs and are empty of truth. You don't love your neighbor by giving your country away. When the life boat is sunk, everyone will die. Let's help these impoverished nations by demanding that they take care of their own.

Fly your American flag where ever you damn well please. Why are we allowing foriegn invaders from allowing us to fly our own flag? They have won several battles now and haven't even fired a shot.

Educate your self. Watch Lou Dobbs or go to cnn.com\lou and read transcripts. Search the web. Read the newspapers, get actively involved in your own education about what is happening. Lou and his staff are the only mainstream media agents reporting the truth about the destruction of Amercia: illegal immigration, exporting jobs, the tainted polical landscape, the high cost of our trade and national deficits, the loss of manufacturing. Unfortunately the list goes on and on.

It's time for Americans to demonstrate thier unhappiness with the illegal alien problem. Let's march in the streets since they are our streets.

Talk about the invasion at work, church and school. Be careful though, you will probably ruffle political correct feathers on the right and left.

We have more to fear from these invaders than what ever came about from the Soviets. You may be seeing the last throes of our America. The one where "out of many;one" still means something. As we all sit on our butts it is becoming "out of many; multicultural chaos".

Money takes center stage. The American people are last in line to recieve representation from the people we elect to represent us. We don't have the money that cronies and corporations have. But we still have the vote, for now. Corporations and Republicans are working on that. Just ask the Diebolts and Blackwell of Ohio. Or the Presidents brother and the supreme court that is controlled by these pretnd Americans.

Fight the good fight fellow Americans. This is your country and worth fighting for. God Speed

i believe the Democrats are out of touch on immigration. i am a lifelong Democrat and union member.now retired and living in Deleware,the impact illegals have on the economy and employement rolls is staggering.employers exploit these people,while denying jobs and decent wages to our young people.what ever happened to the concept of a melting pot.it was our goal to be one nation.not everyone being an individual and freeloading off the good old USA. our democratic leaders should listen to the majority of the citizenry and not give in to clowns like,Vincente Fox.keep america whole.don't franchise us to the third world.

The middle class and the working class is suffering from the political decisions made by republicans and democrats in Washington D.C. Both parties have embraced globalism/free trade which is the exportation of US jobs overseas. Both parties have supported the continued importation of cheap labor to displace US workers and reduce US workers wages and salaries.

The middle and working class is also hurt by the high gas prices caused by a failure to regulate the oil industry and the failure to adopt an energy policy. They are also hurt by the rising cost of health care and the failure to adopt an universal health care policy in the USA.

However, it is not logical to state that since these policies hurt the middle and working class that other policies including the illegal immigration are not also hurting the middle and working class. The fact is that the middle and working class is being attacked from all sides.

Excessively high levels of illegal immigration decrease wages and salaries of working US citizens. These foreign workers force US workers out of the workforce. The US workers forced out of the workforce don't fall off the edge of the earth. They still have to survive somehow either through government support or through the support of their families. The illegal aliens taking the jobs of lower skilled US workers often make such low wages that they too must rely on government assistance and demand more government services than they can pay in taxes. These illegal aliens often work under the table failing to pay all the required taxes. If we were to allow US citizens to do the jobs of illegal aliens they would make more money, pay more taxes, and require less government services.

There is also a trend to import legal workers to work in the sciences and technologies. These legal workers make about $13,000 per year less than US citizen in the same jobs. This has caused employers to lay off US workers in favor of foreign high tech workers. US women and minorities are not hired for high tech jobs because foreign workers work cheaper and fill affirmative action slots.

We have a labor surplus in the USA at all levels and we do not need illegal aliens or legal immigrants here on worker visas.

The US government is not capable and is not willing to screen legal immigrants for criminal or terrorists backgrounds. The Senate has pursued a policy of increasing illegal immigration and doubling legal immigration. The Senate has done nothing to fix the capacity of ICS formerly INS to screen current immigration applications let alone the millions of applications from all those it wishes to grant amnesty or for those new applications from the worker visa increases. It is apparent that the Senate doesn't really expect ICS to screen applicants and is just giving lip service to US security issues.

All of these amnesty, guestworker, legalization, increase immigration bills are intended to flood the US market with cheap labor and drive down US wages and salaries. The US government currently does not enforce immigration laws - under republican leadership. There is no indication that they will enforce immigration laws after they flood the labor market with more immigrants. It is time for enforcement only legislation and actually enforcing immigration laws.

Although politicians that are actually concerned about middle class and working class US citizens and voters are few and far between; I read about one from a CNN transcript of the Lou Dobbs show. Democrats are capable of returning to their roots and representing US citizens who work for a living. It is just that the democratic party leadership is more interested in those who cater to multi-national corporations and the filthy rich.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/06/ldt.01.html

Excerpt from the Lou Dobbs show on CNN:

DOBBS: Senator Byron Dorgan is one of the few Democrats who oppose a guest worker program and immigration reform legislation before the Senate. The senator says it's a sellout to corporations that want cheap labor. He has written an amendment to block any guest worker program at all. Senator Dorgan joins us tonight from Capitol Hill.

Senator, thanks for being here. I think most of us were taken by that spectacle of watching the Republican leadership, the Democratic leadership, before cameras today hailing this breakthrough. You're unimpressed?

SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: Well, I'm not impressed. I mean, look, this is the corporate strategy in this country now and Congress seems to be embracing it. The corporate strategy is export good American jobs and then import cheap labor. That might be good corporate strategy, but in my judgment, it's not good for the American worker.

There's all this discussion about immigration and immigrants. There's very little discussion about the American worker. In my judgment, they also have a very big stake in these decisions that are being made here in the Capitol and there's very little consideration given to the American worker.

DOBBS: I have been saying for some time that the American working man and woman, the middle class is the least represented group in all of Washington. It sounds like you do agree.

DORGAN: I sure agree, absolutely. I mean, this so-called globalized economy, you know, there's this export of American jobs wholesale to China and Indonesia and Bangladesh, and now we hear the president and we hear leaders of the Congress say, well, you can't get Americans to do these jobs, so we need to import cheap labor.

The fact is, there is a price at which Americans would do these jobs but this Congress has not increased the minimum wage for nine years. Why? Because they want cheap labor that bottom for corporate decision makers, and so that's what is happening.

We're keeping American workers down, low wages, losing retirement benefits, losing healthcare benefits. That is not a route, in my judgment, to economic expansion in this country for all Americans.

gtbBear....I firmly believe that the Democratic Party leaders are in bed with big business just as much as the Republicans are. They try and spin it differently, but in the end it's American workers who are hurt, and it's the ruling class who wins.....whether the name is Clinton, Kennedy, Bush or McCain. Same mold just different parties.

I have been a lifelong member of the Democratic Party. The ideals proclaimed by the party leaders pretty much matched my ideals. I am now ready to change my registration! No, not to Republican... but to an independent registered voter!

I am very angry over the spineless gutless wimps in our Senate who are afraid to take a tough stand on the immigration issue. You are giving away our country, culture, and way of life. I've had enough of your pandering to people who don't belong in our country to begin with.

Wake up Democrats! You may be crowing now about the low numbers of the Republicans, but your numbers are just as bad. The American people are fed up with your political games.

Illegal immigration needs to be stopped immediately and steps taken to rid our country of the millions of illegals already here. If our government can't or won't take action, the American people will. If it comes to a civil war in our own country, so be it! If it takes a wall between our countries, land mines, armed guards ready to stop illegals by any means, then that is what you should do. Employers need to pay the price of harboring and employing these thousands and thousands of illegals. Citizenship should NEVER be granted to any child born of illegal immigrant parents.

It is past time for all of our representatives to actually listen to the American people and stop trying to pull the wool over our eyes. We see through your tactics. You are not representing us, you are lining your own pockets at the expense of the very people who elected you!

I will not support ANY candidate for ANY office who does not stand for and endorse a very rigid anti-illegal-immigration policy. So think long and hard about what you are going to do.... there are an awful lot of fed up American citizens just like me!

IT'S THE GOLDEN RULE FOLKS, THOSE WHO HAVE THE GOLD, MAKE THE RULES. SO WHAT TO DO?

DEMOCRATS GET A DAMN SPINE!!! WHY are we even debating about how to make ILLEGAL BEHAVIOR LEGAL? If anyone from the DNC or any Potential DEMOCRAT candidate; HEAR this LONG TIME DEMOCRAT LOUDLY: NOT ONLY WILL I NOT VOTE FOR ANY DEMOCRAT WHO ATTEMPTS TO GRANT CITIZENSHIP RIGHTS TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS I WILL PUT MY RESOURCES AND TIME TO ASSIST THEIR OPPONENT IN WINNING THE ELECTION, even if it's a Republican. AS AMERCIANS WE DON'T REWARD ILLEGAL ACTIVITY AND WE SHOULDN'T START NOW. To answer the question of how do we send 12-20 million illegal immigrants back to their country.... you don't send them back.... You remove the incentives that keep them here and they will go back on their own!!! Here's a start of how you do it: Heavily fine the companys that hire illegal immigrants, refuse medical and educational facilities to illegal immigrants, refuse automatic citizenship to the children born on American soil by parents who are illegally in America, require all landlords to have legal forms of ID for all of their tenants; and finally WELCOME ALL LEGAL IMMIGRANTS AND GRANT THEM WITH ALL THE RESPECT AND RIGHTS THAT THEY DESERVE!!!

I am a loyal Democratic. I was born one, but this
time I have to disagree with you.
I don't know who Time Magazine is asking, but I
live in the real world, and this is not what I am
seeing. American are very busy people. They don't
have the time to listen to the news to see what is going on they are to busy trying to get pass
the Bush economics. Our local TV does not bother to
pick up on the Mexican marches, but the one coming
up I'm sure they will start to realize this is
serious. They will lose their positions in this
country. We are nice people, but there is a limit. I've put together what I have view from
people and this is what I am hearing and it's not
the same opinion as the Time magazine.
They must live in Wonderland. We don't have time
to write and keep an eye on politics, we vote
to let people we think we trust to do that for us. The Democrats will be slipping on this one if
you think people want to lose their jobs, freedom, their children freedom, medical, S.S.
Retirements you are wrong. Here is the letter compose by the common people that makes up
the Democrat party.

Wake up America! Is Congress turning over our country to the Mexican’s?
This is not a political, racial, religious issue.
This is a matter of our security, our health, and our economy. America we are heading for an economical crash.
It’s not fair to our troops. They are citizens and have earned the right to have the pleasure of our country. As long as we have an
American on foreign soil fighting for this country we should not even consider letting Mexicans or any illegal have amnesty or any benefits in this country. We are cheating every American it is a slap on the face to our troops in
Iraq trying to secure another countries borders and problems and not our borders and problems.
There are millions from Mexico and how many from other countries, who knows? Our government doesn’t.
Most Americans are so busy working to make ends meet they are not able to watch the news to find out what's going on.
We are being invaded and Congress is being Pressured to give in to letting illegal get to stay in this country.
What does this mean to you? Well a big rally one of the biggest is heading our way all across the country.
This is our National Security..are they a sleep at the wheel again? Are they just not caring?
These illegals are costing us our future and for sure your children’s future. No matter how good your job it is not safe.
Our economy is being ruined and where are the USDA department of agriculture. These people have not been immunized.
We are seeing diseases we have see since biblical time. From CNN’s Lou Dobbs we are learning about the diseases that they are bring in. There is HIV VIRUS. Hepatics A & B, Tuberous which
Illinois is on the list for having the most out breaks, and now Leprosy and what does our government do ..they
tell us about bird flu.
These people work in our food chain. They handle our food and if they get any cuts, a sneeze, sweat, brings it in our food, and makes an unhealthy threat to your families and us.
Think about the Hamburger or Steak or Salad you were going to eat today. How many germs are you eating? Washing
The meat won’t help it cannot be washed out.
Schools around the country are not letting the students wave the American Flag, but it’s ok to wave the Mexican flag.
I am totally disgusted with both Democrats and Republicans, Each and everyone in Congress, the House, and Senate
and the White House swore an oath to the American People not Mexico.
Illegal's parade in our streets and tells us they’ve fought for their rights to be here.
It’s un-American to let big business dictate to our elected officials that they want to increase their profit
Margin using illegal immigrants who are displacing the middle class out of their jobs and place them into an even lower
Wage field. It is reported now that there are more Americans out of work than illegal. A poll of 5.2 America’s to 4.6 Illegal out of work.
It is insulting to have a President that can tell us these people are doing the jobs that the American people won’t do.
Our country has being doing this work for 230 years so where does he get this statement. We get this from
a President that most likely could not tell us the price of a gallon of milk. Remember his father was asked this when he was president
and he didn’t know and I don’t think this one knows either. If the Bush family goes back into their heritage I’m sure you will find someone
who plowed the earth, sweat and slaved, fought and died to help make him and his family who they are? Each and every America has
relatives that have made the pathway for them and their family to have a better life. They gave their today for all of our tomorrows.
Don’t sell the American people short, by insulting us and telling us in so many words we are lazy and won’t work, because that is what President Bush is
saying. It’s hard to believe a family that lives and owns property in a state that swears never to forget 3 little words. "Remember the Alamo" can
be so loyal to Mexico. I’m surprise the Texas people aren’t throwing a fit.
Often they are paying illegals substandard wages to these people in cash and if they have no S.S. numbers they are not
Paying taxes or S.S. This is not fair to our country this is cheating our economy.
Our country needs the money more than big business that usually are owned by what country?
By them not paying taxes their taking advantage of all American people including
naturalized immigrants and legitimate citizens, and again cheating our troops who are dieing to keep this country free. How many
Illegal Mexicans are over in Iraq?
What’s wrong with this picture?
I see Mexican Flags waving in this country, but I see white flags waving in Washington, and
in the White House surrendering our country. We are now seeing who are loyal to this Country.
This is not the American way.
I heard a young Mexican woman who had the nerve to said on camera while crossing the Brooklyn Bridge Protesting their rights (what rights) and I quote,
“We want to say that we deserve to be legal,” she said. “Why are people called illegal immigrants when they have shed blood, sweat and tears to work in this country?” They have not earned the right. American’s are fighting and dieing for our country.
Why don’t we have a line where these immigrants that are protesting to prove they are legal, if they aren’t let them sign up for the Armed Forces or get on
a bus to go to their country.
Many Latinos say they were first spurred to action by a House bill passed in December that would make it a felony to be in the country illegally or to provide assistance to illegal immigrants.
If Congress cows down to these immigrants other immigrants from other countries will want the same. Where does it stop?
The big scare of bird flu is nothing to the diseases these people are bringing into this country. They have no shots. This is a medical alert for all of us, do
we have to pay to have these people immunize also.
We should be spending our money on replenishing our military..not on illegals. They are even talking about paying for college for the illegal but not for the
American citizens. They cater to illegals, but care nothing about the American people.
The answer to all this nonsense is simple instead of putting up fences put up
Big billboards with the right words.
“Welcome to this country, but you must first be willing to join our Armed Forces
And go to Iraq, this shows us you really are willing to be loyal to OUR COUNTRY.”
Watch and see how many head for their border.
Do you realize we had Army Reserves bases on the borders, but Washington decided they cost us too much money in up keep?
What is it costing us now is outrageous. Just another blunder from Washington.
Again Loud and Clear!
It’s not fair to our troops. They are citizens and have earned the right to have the pleasure of our country. As long as we have an
American on foreign soil fighting for this country we shouldn’t even consider letting Mexicans have amnesty or any benefits in this country.
And where is the FCC? When did our government start letting Mexicans own a radio station in Los Angles or any where in the US? This is not legal and why are they letting them start a riot situation? A quote from MSN news
“Over the past two months, Spanish-language radio hosts have emerged as a driving force behind the immigration rallies. Once relatively rare, the number of Spanish-language media outlets across the nation has grown greatly over the past decade.”
Is the expense that high considering the medical, educating, supporting, and the cost just keeps going up.To let them stay. They cross the boarder illegally they are invading our country and taking it over without a shot.
No bombs, No impressive weapons just too many people
that soon will over power the American people. Remember the Indians..it happen to them.
We are risking more than we know. We are losing the
battle to keep this country the country it has always been.
True we are loving people, but we can't help people if
we don't have a country. If we were in a building we would have
a limit for our own safety. Where will our men and women in the service find a job?
Thanks
Alice Gorin

With the immigration laws on the books now, it is illegal to just walk into this country and get a job.You have to go through a process to become a citizen. It is illegal for someone in this country to hire an illegal immigrant to work for them. So what's the problem, all you so-called lifelong Democrats? Isn't that what you and all these great lovers of the middle class are screaming about? You already have what you want.Why has it taken Republican controlled congress and Bush six years to determine we have an immigration problem? This is nothing but a Republican gimmick to try to gain some support from the non thinkers in an election year when they are in trouble and they are pretending to be life long Democrats who are mad enough at the party to vote Republican. If we do not enforce the laws we now have, what good are new ones that say the same thing? It's not the law that needs fixing, it's the enforcement. If some state government is giving services to an illegal,that needs fixing because that is wrong. Fire any SOB that does it. If these huge home builders, that are 99% Republican, have their building licenses taken away forever if they hire an illegal,guess what, that problem would stop over night. If the same thing happened to all corporations who hire them, the problem would be taken care of over night. If you can't tell a legal from an illegal, how in the hell are you going to round them up and send them home and make them stay,if you have a new law to do so and by the way, how many of you hire them or the lawn service that cuts your grass because it's cheaper and you don't want to know a thing except how much it will costs.You are a big part of this so-called problem. It's simply bull to get on this board and say this is tearing apart the middle class. You want the cheap services and cheap houses and you want them to spend their money with you if you have a business but you want to round them up and send them home. How dumb does that sound? Is there wonder how Bush go re-elected?

This is nothing but another Carl Rove game for the dummies who refuse to think.

This began as a toughen border security issue which 90% agree with. The felony part of the law was easily agreed to be dropped from the final bill, although Democrats blocked the amendment for political fodder. All that was needed was a compromise on border security and then Democrats began this campaign for amnesty to pander for hispanic votes. (Not Rove!) If you are wealthy and not one of the lower wage Americans that is being replaced by their own government then this is a non-issue to you. If you have lost a job and watched your children go hungry then the issue grows in importance. When your child cannot get a job to go to college then this issue not only harms you in the present but also in the future. Only 4% of illegals work on farms, most are taking our best blue collar jobs. The poor in America have stopped moving up to the middle class because these low skilled jobs have completely disappeared. Are you willing to spend 75% more for social services to compensate those that lose jobs due to this amnesty of yours? I think not!

This began as a toughen border security issue which 90% agree with. The felony part of the law was easily agreed to be dropped from the final bill, although Democrats blocked the amendment for political fodder. All that was needed was a compromise on border security and then Democrats began this campaign for amnesty to pander for hispanic votes. (Not Rove!) If you are wealthy and not one of the lower wage Americans that is being replaced by their own government then this is a non-issue to you. If you have lost a job and watched your children go hungry then the issue grows in importance. When your child cannot get a job to go to college then this issue not only harms you in the present but also in the future. Only 4% of illegals work on farms, most are taking our best blue collar jobs. The poor in America have stopped moving up to the middle class because these low skilled jobs have completely disappeared. Are you willing to spend 75% more for social services to compensate those that lose jobs due to this amnesty of yours? I think not!

Dear Indy & the rest of the Know-Nothings;

No amount of border security will stop the flow of illegal immigrants. The economic incentive is too great. They work for slave wages because its better than starving.

If the only other alternative is to die by starving you might as well brave any danger. Even if we built a wall and manned it every 10 feet with a machine gun they would come. It is better to die trying than die starving.

People already face dangers like a tunnel collapse; or being baked to death locked in the back of a moving van; or young women being kidnapped and sold into the sex trade. This is what people confront to get here. It proves how motivated they are.

If you don't want them to come you have to make working in Mexico more attractive than working in the US.

Unions & Worker's Rights groups need to cross the border. It is no use trying to cut ourselves off. We are inevitably a part of the same economic block - especially since NAFTA.

Instead, all north american workers should band together to provide all workers the rights and protections the US Labor movement won for US workers.

It is cruel to blame or criminalize the people who come here for simply trying to prevent their families' from starving. Would you cut off the hand of a beggar for stealing a crust of bread? Would you have joined the Pinkertons who beat down the Pullman strikers who were technically striking illegally?

If you can't be logical about this then you probably have some mental condition where you need to blame some anonymous group of people for your life's problems. In that case, I think your anger is better spent going after the employers. They have no excuse for breaking the law.

Tomrvance, You do not appear to be reading the same material I'm reading. Nobody is blaming any group of people for trying to come to America. All I've read is people pissed at politicians and corporate America. Maybe China should build 20 ships that could carry 100,000 Chinese Immigrants. Each ship could make 10 trips and then we could have 20 million illegal chinese immigrants that would work cheaper than our 20 million illegal Mexican workers. We could enjoy the tri-lingual publications, radio and tv and education for our kids. No matter what the ethnic or racial background of the illegal, it is not their fault. This all started with the 2nd worst President in history, Ronald Reagan. It will not stop until We impress the politicians that we are mad as hell at their antics. There are very few true "statesmen" in office that would do the right thing for America. Its time we put the fear of losing their job foremost in their thoughts.
Tomrvance, as far as border security and m-60's every 10 feet, WE DONT NEED THEM. Eliminate the jobs and benifits afforded illegals at our expense and they will go home. The Felons would be those that harbor and/or hire the illegal.

DTree and tomrvance have it almost right. I've lived in the SWest corner for 40 yrs. And I also vacation and work with the Mexican people. El Puta Presidente Fox hasn't spent one cent on anything except improving tourist areas. The same cardboard slums are still there with the same people still begging in the streets.
All the POLICIES in the world on THIS side of the border will NEVER stop them from coming here to help feed their families, regardless of the dangers.
Here are several quick new points to consider. We have a huge percentage of illegals that come here for an 8-12 month period, sending money home every month (THATS WHAT FOX LOVES)then return home for a break and then restart the process. They do not want to live here. While they're gone they have an excessive number of replacements. My town is almost devoid of under 60 men. The illegals have taken most of the jobs because 1. knowing there are illegals around the employer won't offer a wage more than what the illegal will take and 2. because most illegals have FEW EXPENSES! 8-10 living together share the costs. No real housing or vehicle or everday expenses born by a person with a real stake in their immediate environment or country.
Most of the illegals still think poorly of us.
(Remember the book on the World's opinion of America? 80% of Mexican's think poorly of America because of the way they were treated here as workers!)

That brings me to my biggest beef over having TOO many immigrants of ANY kind. Some smart ass Latino leader in an immigration forum shown on C-Span said basically this: "You have had low birth rates so you have fewer workers - we're here to fill that bill".
Oh is that so!! That's just what we need-another whacko group concerned over what women do with their vaginas!
That jerk forgets the concerns of most Americans with our dwindling resouces and pollution. We made a CONSCIOUS effort to have smaller families ON PURPOSE!
Thats my bigger concern with this issue, an exploding population.
Most of my male Mexican friends here have wives and children in Mexico. They also have girlfriends and children here.

motherwolfe.....while we Americans at large have decided that we want to limit family size, limit population growth, and live in a non-resource stretched environment, big business and others don't agree with us.

Business, politicians, churches, unions and some other pro-illegal and legal immigration institutions have a belief that we must have population growth even if the citizens don't.

Somehow we citizens have to change that attitude.

April 17th is a day for Americans to make their wishes known.

http://www.thedustininmansociety.com/blog/?p=98

A day without Americans - April 17, 2006!

In response to the recent mass national rallies fearlessly staged by the illegal alien lobby, The Dustin Inman Society is suggesting that Americans nationwide stay home from work and not spend any money on April 17. 2006 - income tax day.

The country and its government needs to witness a day without Americans.

It is not an overstatement to observe that the federal government has abandoned the American people and we teeter on the brink of national suicide.

The well-funded illegal alien lobby has been successful in galvanizing the millions of illegal aliens in the nation to march in American streets demanding no less than open borders, continued selective law enforcement and amnesty for people who should be in fear of apprehension and deportation.

It has also galvanized many Americans who are seeing for the first time the true nature and result of our intentionally unsecured borders.

Enough!

The message to the U. S. government and the world is that another amnesty for illegals is tantamount to erasing any pretense of a nation of secure borders, rule of law and a common language. Amnesty - by any name - does not stop illegal immigration.

We have reached the point in our national history at which we as a nation must choose whether to resist …or to wave the white flag of surrender.

We are suggesting that Americans who do not work in medical, law enforcement or emergency capacities stay home from work on April 17 and that we, as a united people, reply to the government that has refused to protect us by refraining from spending any money. Those who have nothing to fear from violating any law that is not beneficial to them are not the only group with power in these United States.

We are demanding that the American government offer the same protection in the United States that the Mexican government provides its people.

This is our country. We dishonor our grandfathers if we do not try to protect the republic that was lovingly passed on to us.

A national day of public opposition to illegal immigration April 17, 2006 !

http://www.thedustininmansociety.com/blog/?p=98

I do not agree with tagaris at all. If you read that Time poll you will find that the majority of Americans are not happy with the current immigration system here in the US. Most democrats believe that the government is not doing enough to stop people from entering our country illegally.

I have been a democrat "forever" and always support financially, but I am disturbed that democratic leaders are not considering their constituents when making these types of decisions. Most democrats want tougher immigration laws and dislike the fact that we are paying for the health care, infrastructure costs, and schooling for people who aren't even citizens of this country... I am very unhappy with the way democrats are handling this. We need to conduct a poll right here on the DNC website and you will see what I'm talking about.

After reading all of this, is obvious that the GOP is not the only one "out of touch"....

1. Time magazine apparently went to Los Angeles to do this poll... the numbers are ridiculous!!! I just saw a poll in Fox News Channel, where 92% of participants answered NO to the following question: “Should illegal immigrants be offered amnesty?”

2. amnesty is NOT a solution... is just a way to postpone the debate for next election period or a few years down the road.... we have postponed this ENOUGH!!!

3. Robson said : "The infrastructure must be put in place first to provide true enforcement and punishment of greedy employers and on the border." and I agree... we can't overlook this very important side of this debate...... but I do have to add that we have to find a way to “dis-encourage” them to come... (e.i. making their life hell once they get here will make them stop trying to come!!!)

4. There are a few people saying that the illegal immigrants are contributing with this society... Allow me to remind you this very fundamental fact: Illegal workers get paid in CASH!!! they DO NOT pay taxes...yet they use (some say “clog”) the public health system and the public school system.... hello!!! can anyone see the disparity here!!!!????????

5. Some politicians are drooling for the Latino-vote, because they are “a lot”.... so, here is a “news-flash” for them: Latinos, traditionally, DO NOT VOTE!!!! most Latinos only reach the “residency” stage, most of them do not petition for “citizenship”.. They don’t care about it (for them, the difference between legal-residence and citizenship is the right to vote and the passport) .... and, of the few who do, most of them do not go out to vote... is a cultural thing.... check out the % of election participation in the last elections on Latin American nations... I have watch a lot of tv-programs from Latin-oriented Univision tv-network and all the news anchors and commentators are always reminding the people to get involved.... to register.... to vote..... that have being happening for the last 10 years... and the number of Latino-citizens that are actual voter is still below 20%.....

6. Others argue that getting all the illegal immigrants out is impossible.... It will be impossible if not started, but is not impossible after all, because local police know who they are and where they live..... they all live in their own “neighborhoods” and usually do not “hang-out” with other cultures..... But, if you really wanna be serious, just go to one of this marches around the country, most of them are there “DEMANDING” rights.....

7. A lot of people are justifying their support for the “guest-workers” and all other illegal immigrant amnesty variants, saying that the usually low-income earning workers are needed and that no one in USA wants to do that kind of work.... OK, I’ll grant you that no one in USA really would like that low-income, but why can’t we go back to the old days where the state prisoners will take care of the farming-jobs and other like that....???? Why can we not turn the Welfare office into temp-agency and force all those people living on welfare to work?????? If we do this, believe me, we are not going to need that many “guess-workers” here.....

I’ll leave you with a final thought...

If they CHOOSE to ignore Immigration laws and come to the USA illegally.....what makes you think they are not going to CHOOSE to overlook another law??????

To all the Republican dim wits who keep on beating this board to death with your nonsense. Other people are not as stupid as you. They know your sudden concern for the working people of America is a bunch of crap. You don't seemed very concerned about high paying jobs being shipped to India with Bush's blessing. You don't seem to concerned about health care costs crippling the workers of America. You don't seem very concerned about oil companies and drug companies draining American workers. Don't come on this board with phony concerns about illegal immigrants. Your big home builders welcome them for the cheap labor and you welcome for the same reason. Compassion from you, what a joke. Try some other gimmick, that one won't work.

Illegals are trying to bully the American people and our politicians.Some people on this board seem to think that all Democrats are for illegals. Believe me they're not! I'm with the Democrat party on issues like health care,the right to bargain,social security, outsoucing of jobs to foreign countries,and I can't stand George Bush,but I am not with them on illegal immigration which I believe is forcing wages down for Americans. No Amnesty!

Illegal immigration and lack of border enforcement is an issue that has many strange political bedfellows.

Many Democrats vehemently want the situation corrected. Many Republicans agree. Yet the leaders of the parties in many cases want the status quo.

While I can't stand most of the GOP policies and especially Bush, I find myself agreeing almost 100% with the Congress on this issue. The pandering to illegal immigrants for their votes is a very frustrating situation.

as a long time dem. I am embarressed by the party. doesn't anyone know what illegal means? forget "undocumented".you can lower the # of illegals by changing the law---you can also lower the # of murders by changing laws. Marcy is a disgrace standing with cynthia the racist--- you can hillary all you want about the R's but start in Toledo with Copeland and work your way up---it seems all the party does is hillary,hillary,hillary--more later

to L... who worries of 'what other laws the illegals might break..IF YOU HAVE THE SICK MIND TO ASK THAT YOU'RE PROBABLY A REALLY GUILTY REPUBLICAN.

TO THE PREVIOUS POSTER WHO AGREES THAT CONGRESS IS 100% RIGHT?? (you're watching too much FOX TV)
Then your agreeing that "Congress" is ALL OVER THE PLACE ON THIS ISSUE- Just like everyone else.
AND YOU CAN THANK YOUR BRAINLESS LEADERS for thinking he could ram a VERY COMPLICATED PEOPLE ISSUE down everyones throat to cover their asses FOR BEING SERIOUSLY INCOMPETANT IN JUST ENFORCING THE EXISTING LAWS GOVERNING THEMSELVES OR THEIR CONTRIBUTORS.

Don't blame Vincente Fox or do anything TO Fox.
Don't blame any of the people who hire and pay them.
BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE TOO HARD FOR YOU WHINY *@#&^!

This is such a major issue involving dozens of other issues. The people in the streets need to be told that this is NOT ALL ABOUT THEM!

AND BUSH AND FRIST SHOULD BE TOLD THEY ARE NOT QUALIFIED TO BE IN CHARGE OF DEVELOPING GOOD POLICIES FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!

I suggest we wait until after the elections then have a 9-ll type panel handle this.

1,000,000 people marching in the streets demanding equal rights. Illegal immigrants demanding free and full access to the USA. If they want full access to the USA then they should put the interests of the USA before there country of origin. When 10,000,000 poor hard working Mexican laborers can gain access just imagine how easy it is for a well funded terrorist. We all have good friends that we love to see, but we don’t usually like it when they just show up. Privacy and boundaries are appropriate in private life and boarders are necessary for a country.

This is not about the good people. It’s about the bad people. If we can’t control the boarder we don’t have a country. Build a wall. Control access for temporary guest workers. Provide a way for guest workers to become citizens if they wish. Deal with the people who are here a fare way, but they should recognize the USA as home not Mexico.

What would happen if 1,000,000 people marched in Mexico City demanding the end to corruption, more jobs, better healthcare and improved education?

I want our party to win in 2006 and 2008, however, we need to see the world we live in. The numbers of democrats that moved to the other party are older (baby boomers)and MUCH more moderate to conservative in their views. Our party can only win if we have programs that provide for the views and needs of these voters. Please think about the future not just the short term fixes.
Thank you, NCOIC

Dems;You're reacting to Republicans. Fix the borders, then take care of the ILLEGAL immigrants and ILLEGAL employers who depress wages of American citizens. You are sacrificing morality
for the votes of a smalll populations. I marched for civil rights that were LEGAL. Please watch WETN tv and see that the CATHOLIC CHURCH Is advocating breaking USA law for doctrinal purposes.Thanks. Thomas D. Davis, a former "yellow dog" democrat, a devoted humanist, a civil rights activist and a WWll vet.

the DNC should act on this!
get in the protests, and introduce a whole new side to american politics!

begin rallies and turn the protests into DNC rallies. get latinos fired up about the democratic party and carry the american people to victory. im disappointed the DNC has done NOTHING about this!

OPEN LETTER TO HILLARY CLINTON; I just watched your smiling face on the news admiring a throng of illegal workers as you loudly proclaimed that they were the face of America. You have sold out your base of blue collared workers (the true face of America) to pander for the vote of a people that cannot legally vote & historically votes in low numbers. Why do you bite the hand that feeds you? I HAVE voted in every election for the past 30 years. I have always voted Democrat except for 1 time when I voted for a former union (SAG) president that lied to us. I, along with my union brothers & sisters helped put your husband in the White House for 8 years. My great brothers & sisters in New York helped put you in the Senate. You compare the actions of the illegal workers that came here of their own free will, violating our laws to the descendants of slaves that had no choice in their migration. The black American has every right to march, protest & demand the "CIVIL RIGHTS" to which they are entitled. To state that these illegal worker demands in any way compares to the civil rights movement is a slap in the face of every black American. You really know how to treat those that put you in office. If you were to run against Adolph Hitler for dog catcher, he would now win in a landslide. Open your eyes & ears. Their are millions of legal Americans that feel as I do.

Well, I don't think the April 17th stay home from work day is going to work, most of us can not afford that. Why can't we have demonstration's like they are? Probably because must of us are working 5-6 days a week already and are overstretched, mostly due to the fact we don't make as much money as we used to because our medical coverage is going up astronomically. One reason for that is that the illegal immigrants are getting free medical coverage here in the united states. Hospitals are having to shut down because they can't afford to survive through all the free medical coverage they are giving and american workers are taking the hit for it. I believe it is time for a new political party, the Working Class. So now we can have democrats protecting illegals, Republic's covering the rich, and the Working Class covering people that really work in the United States. It's so sad, I believed the Democrats stood for me and protected me and my family for years, I'm seeing this is not the case any more.

These people aren't Democrats, What bull. I haven't seen these names in the past posting on this board about the crook Delay and Bush becoming the leaker in chief after all the things he said about leaks? Where have you been when your freedoms have been stepped on by the secret Bush spy people listening to your phone calls, or blaming the victims of Hurricane Katrina for their own disaster because the Government failed to respond quickly? Where have you been on a thousand other things that have been shove down the throats of working Americans? Now, illegal immigrants are going to destroy the middle class and you are going to vote Republican? If you are Democrats, the moon is Swiss Cheese.

Not Democrats? There can't be diversity of opinion in the Democratic Party? Open your eyes. I’ve voted democratic in every election since the 70’s. There are some rules in life no matter what your religion, color, country of origin or party. Don’t cut in line is one of them.

I have voted a straight Democratic ticket for the last 25 years. I will seek an alternative if the Dems don't get tough on immigration. The Democrats are apparently going to throw away this opportunity to regain the support of middle class Americans by pandering to the special interests of non-citizens and supporters of the reconquista.

Tug, give up with the, their not democrats crap. We are democrats, I don't want to leave the party, but they are not standing for what I want. This issue is hitting me harder then other issues have. Do I like Bush and his policies? NO. Did I vote for him? NO. Do I want another republican in the office? NO. Do I want to continue paying for medical for people that are here illegally? HELL NO. The middle class has already been beaten up by the republican party, and now the Democratic party is hitting us on the other end. I don't see either of these parties standing for my rights and what I want. I'm hoping the Democratic politicians will see what us, as the people that voted them in, really want.

The key to the immigration reform is effective enforcement of laws prohibiting the employment of illegal entrants. This would ultimately dry up many low pay jobs, reduce the influx of entrants, and ultimately provide a decent wage for dishwashers and menial workers. This in turn would benefit the working poor. Cheap labor is a subsidy to labor intensive businesses. The long term secondary costs, health care, education, law enforcement, are born by the tax payers. We are losing a generation of entry level black males, some of whom might take unskilled work if they could earn enough to support themselves and possibly a family. Sheldon Greene

Anyone who votes for legalizing illegal immagrants will not get my vote in Nov. I am an american and I can vote!!!!!!!!!

From American Economic Alert.org

U.S. Immigration Trends

See No Illegality, Hear No Illegality...

Number of illegal immigrants employed in the United States: 7.2 million

Number of notices of intent to fine employers for knowingly hiring illegals sent by federal government, fiscal 1999: 417

Number of notices of intent to fine employers for knowingly hiring illegals sent by federal government, fiscal 2004: 3

Share of agent investigative work-years devoted by U.S. immigration authorities to worksite enforcement, fiscal 1999: 9%

Share of agent investigative work-years devoted by U.S. immigration authorities to worksite enforcement, fiscal 2004: 4%

My Democratic representatives didn't know about this disregard for the law???

Well said Brick. Just because we are lifelong Democrats does not mean we cannot disagree with those that we put in office. Keeping up with the issues in both political party's is like reading Alice In Wonderland. The GOP is supposed to be for less government & less spending yet Bush has created the largest innept bureaucracy and more debt than all other presidents combined. The Democratic party is supposed to be for protecting American civil rights & individual liberties and protecting the working class against corporate greed & malfeasance. Now, all of a sudden half the GOP is on the side of legal American labor while most of the Dems are going against legal American labor. Both party's in recent history are pandering to the fringe elements on issues that mean the least to the vast majority of Americans such as abortion, religion & gay marriage. What percentage of Americans have abortions? What percentage of Americans believe the con-artist televangelist that prey on the feeble & old for their money or believe the fanatics such as Pat Robertson & Jerry Falwell are less dangerous than their fanatic muslim counterparts? What percentage of Americans are directly affected by gay marriage? Election are won & lost on these issues while the important issues that affect the majority of us are being lost in the shuffle by both party's. I believe in the Demacratic Party's goals but am very disappointed in their soft stance on illegal immigration. Does this mean that I will vote Republican? HELL NO! Does this mean I will ever vote for those that betray us? HELL NO! I wish there was a third American Party choice since the lobbyist have corrupted our 2 party system. Where are our true, honorable statesmen?

As someone who is married to a foreigner I'm terrified of what effect the changes will have on me and my foreign spouse. I'm presently overseas and hope to return home soon and would love to have my spouse of 10+ years with me, obviously. I've been looking into what is needed and I'm amazed at how many people have been refused entry into the U.S. due to 'clerical' errors. I know how it feels to be the foreigner in another country, I know how hard it is to fit in. Even when you're there legally it's not easy. A guest worker program I think would help solve a lot of problems and would be the best option. To say America is full, then we may as well just rip down the Statue of Liberty; the U.S. has been built by foreigners who all had one goal in mind. A new land where they could be free. I admit I don't feel free anymore. I'm even afraid to comment on this site for fear that my comments will jeopardize my spouse's admittance to the states when I return. What happened to our freedom, what happened to the American dream. Sadly I've seen the anger towards Americans developing, I've seen the image of America fading. From being one of the best loved countries to a country that is now looked at with anger and disgust. I realize the U.S. is a world power but shouldn't that mean working with the world instead of trying to control the world. A lot of anger that I deal with is because the Americans are viewed as arrogant, it's their way or no way. No I don't agree with some of the cultural differences I encounter but I do know that it's their way and I need to work with it but I shouldn't tell everyone it's wrong. That's what the current administration is doing; they're telling the world that America decides what is right and wrong and that's far from true. Let the foreigners get a guest permit, let them teach us some of their customs, don't ignore the foreigners, that's what America is about. I personally see this whole situation as just another attempt by our administration to draw attention away from their errors (phone tapping, leaking information), to avoid any more problems, any more questions or probing, any possible chance of charges being brought up, anything to defer the attention away from what happened. It's all part of the same game this administration has played from the beginning. I've always been proud to be an American but these days I'm not only saddened by events but also frightened of what our future holds.

I agree that our borders have a serious problem. Living in Arizona, I have crossed the Mexican/US border more times than I can count -- and RARELY have I ever been stopped, or my vehicle checked. If any terrorists want to come on in, the Arizona border is the ideal place -- whether you jump a fence or walk through the gates. HOWEVER -- let's not mix apples and oranges. The families risking their lives to cross the border are NOT terrorists. Nor are they after your job, or your wallet, or anything else. There is no fence in the world that is tall enough to keep a father from climbing it in order to feed his family, or wide enough that a mother won't find a way across in order to give her children the chance at a decent life. We have openly allowed people to cross this border for years and years -- for OUR benefit -- it is simply too late to shut off the faucet. Whether people in this country like it or not, we share a 2000 mile border with Mexico and should have a vested interest in the success of their economy -- that is the ONLY way to stop the flow of immigration. Tighten the wage gap between our two countries. End of story.

That being said, I do have a couple things I must correct about some of the posts I have seen on here in the last few days:

Those of you who write about how horrible it is to see "illegals" marching up and down the streets should know that many many of the folks in those crowds are NOT illegal. And believe it or not, honky, some of them are even WHITE! Not everyone puts money and politics before humanity.

And second, PLEASE STOP with the argument about your health costs going up because of all the 'illegals' getting free care. That is as false as it is absurd. If any ONE cause can be blamed for rising health care, try frivolous lawsuits by blue-blooded Americans trying to get rich quick. Do some research before posting, please. Let me remind you of the QUALITY, RESEARCHED information that PamB posted from the National Academy for the sciences. Interested in your own fact checking? Good. We all should be. Here is the link: http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=173. You can find the below myths, along with several others.

MYTH: Immigrants use more government services than they pay for with their taxes.
REALITY: Actually, the National Academy of Sciences found that the average immigrant annually contributes $1,800 more in taxes than he or she receives in benefits. Over their lifetimes, immigrants and their children will each pay an average $80,000 more in taxes than they will receive in local, state and federal benefits combined.
Because states provide most services used by immigrants, they can be net financial losers, while the federal government is typically a net gainer.

MYTH: Immigrants increase unemployment and reduce wages.
REALITY: In line with a number of other studies, the Cato Institute found that immigrants do not increase joblessness, even among the lowest-paid workers. The institute studied the relationship of unemployment and immigration between 1900 and 1989 and found "no statistically reliable correlation" between the two. Other studies have found that immigration either has no effect on wage levels or, at worst, a very slight effect on a very small number of the lowest paid jobs in high-immigrant areas. There is a consensus among business leaders that immigration is vital to maintaining economic growth. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan said recently that immigration is critical to mitigating "inflation pressures."

So please stop the ignorant, baseless posting of inaccurate and misleading information. And remember -- It's not about who is right, it's about WHAT is right.

Thank you for indulging me.

Respectfully Fired Up,
Laura

Gee Tug the moon must be made of Swiss cheese because I am a Democrat and so are many of the rest of these people on this board who do not want illegal aliens taking over our country. They are marching in the streets and acting as if we owe them something.What do we owe them? NOTHING! THEY ARE ILLEGAL!

Dusty, I'm sorry that this situation will probably hinder you coming home with your spouse but we know that you will bring him through legally. This is not the problem, our problem is the illegals. These are people that have snuck into our country illegally and have been able to receive jobs, medical coverage, schooling, and welfare under our system. I understand why they do it, this is a great country and there is more money for them to make here, plus they have medical coverage and schooling for free, plus they don't have to pay taxes. This is utopia for someone that can get into this country illegally! I would love to get all that stuff but instead I'm a citizen and I have to PAY to get all of this. I believe that all of these companies that hire illegal immigrants should be getting nailed, paying taxes for all the money they have been paying out for cheap labor. They should also be forced to pay at least minimum wages, this would give U.S. citizens a reasonable chance to compete against them and would inevitably slow down the massive amount of immigrants coming into our country illegally.

As for the ones that are here, I'm not sure what to do with them, but I know that saying they have amnesty and they are now citizens, can not work. That just tells others that want to come here that doing things illegally to get into the US is the way to go. I believe the Republicans did the amnesty thing before and now look, the numbers of illegals is escalating.

Myth - Large numbers of illegal immigrants do not depress wages.

Facts - Wages for many "trades" in the construction industry have gone down thanks to illegal immigration.

Wages in the meat packing industry have gone down thanks to illegal immigration.

Wages in the landscaping industry have gone down because of illegal immigration.

Etc.

Myth - Illegal immigrants do not increase the cost of medical services.

Fact - Hospitals are required to provide emergency treatment to individuals. Do you think the costs of providing services to illegal immigrants are absorbed by the hospital and doctors or are passed on to "paying" customers?

Read the report put out by Harvard University in 2004.

Anke - Thanks for your feedback. Always welcome.

My response?

"Hospitals are required to provide emergency treatment to individuals". Yes. You are correct. There's a little thing called the Hippocratic Oath that suggests that all human life is worth saving -- perhaps you've heard of it.

I, for one, don't mind to pay a few extra dollars to save a human life REGARDLESS OF WHAT COUNTRY THAT LIFE ORIGINATED IN. Am I right in assuming, by your stance, that you wouldn't expect a Mexican doctor to treat you if you were in a car accident during a Mexican vacation? Be careful what you wish for. Putting restrictions on who doctors can and cannot help is a very dangerous proposition.

As for the wages, there may be some truth to what you say. However, I suspect that any economic analysis would find that the impact of illegals on wages is dwarfed by the impact of outsourcing, temp labor and a variety of other factors that have affected the workforce for the last twenty years or so.

Laura

LauraLee, he's a "honkey" and you're not for "money and politics" just "humanity". I think I just got whiplash. Relax. Is this how the respectful exchange of ideas is accomplished?

I AM SO MAD WITH THE DEMOCRATS THAT I INTEND TO VOTE REPUBLICAN FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 23 YEARS TO SEND THE DNP A CLEAR MESSAGE OF MY DISGUST.

I do not know where to begin:
the war, medicare prescription drugs, defense shield, farm subsidies, social security, tax cuts, etc. spend spend spend. Democrats are silent.

According to the GAO, if the current fiscal policy, excluding war spending, continues we will be paying 2.5 times more in taxes. Thats close to 50 percent!!!!!! Democrats are silent.

The President breaks the law on a daily basis. The Democrats are silent.

The typical guerilla war lasts 9 years. This war will continue and our kids will probably be drafted. Democrats are silent.

Nobody I know has retirement savings.

Everyone I know has spent way too much on their house.

The schools are dumping grounds for illegal immigrants. Schools spend money and resources educating illegals, at the expense of our own kids.

Oh yeah, our kids are expected to have a lower mortality rate then we will have.

There are too many illegal immigrants in my State (Colorado). They consume too much of our governments resources. They need to go.

It is time somebody spoke up for our kids. If I have to walk to Washington DC to make my voice heard, I will. If I have to campaign for Tom Tancredo, I will. I am that angry at the Democrats on the issue of illegal immigration.

I know what you mean Noelle. We need someone that cares about the sovereignty of our nation.It seems as though Tom Tancredo, Sensenbrenner, Byron Dorgan, and a few others are the only ones who get it. Most Democrats just don't realize how mad many of us are.They will find out at election time.

LauraLee, is that racism spewing out of that misinformed head of yours? Haven't heard "honky" in a while. You bring up so many things you know nothing about using reliable unbiased statistics brought to you by the same people that will sell you ocean front property in Arizona.
You bring up the hippocratic oath & required emergency treatmaet. Let me fill you in on some real life facts. When I have a sick child I have to take them to the Doctors office, paying a co-pay and getting billed by the Dr. for the amount not covered by my insurance. If the child is gravely ill or been in a traumatic accident, we go to the ER for treatment which is at a much higher cost than the doctors office. I spent 7 days with my daughter in Childrens Hospital which shares a common building with the Dallas County hospital, Parkland. I learned every turn and corner in the hallways during those 7 days. I did not see dozens or hundreds of illegals during that week. I saw thousands, seeking not traumatic emergency care but anything from the common cold to vaccinations. I learned this from RN's treating them. There were lines of illegals going down hallways & out into the ambulance entrance & parking area. Many had to be woke up off the floor & asked to move so the stretcher could get by with a trauma victim. Before you say it, yes about 10% were black or white that evidently had no insurance because the former well paying jobs pay a poverty wage due to the influx of illegal labor.
Now for the grandiose contributions that you say the illegals make to this poor undeserving country. They pay zero federal income tax whether they get payed on the books or not. Those that are on the books with illegal document do pay into SSI. Those that buy goods in America do pay the local & state sales tax. Now imagine that if the wages were not depressed due to the cheap labor, American workers could afford health insurance, schools & hospitals would not be overburdened. The American worker would buy more goods & pay more federal, state, local, sales & social security tax.

I absolutely stand corrected. My use of the word honky was uncalled for. I cringed when I read your posts, Zendad & Texasteamster, because I hope that everything I stand for is in direct opposition of racism. I suppose I view honky more as a descriptive term than as a racist term - perhaps because I am one! :-)I will be more careful in the future and appreciate your honest responses. I definitely agree that this forum should be full of intelligent, positive debate and I hope my future contributions will speak to that.

However (you had to know that was coming!). My concern with any of the proposed legislation mainly lies with prosecuting those who come to the aid of undocumented workers. I want to state again that any law that dictates who a doctor can and cannot offer aid to is nothing but dangerous and begins our walk down a road I hope to never be on. Not to mention prosecuting priests, pastors. Maybe I am over-reacting - If anyone has more information on how this plays out in the proposed legislation, I would be very interested in hearing it.

One other comment and question for Texasteamster...Perhaps your state allows folks to go to the hospital for any reason without payment up front, but I can tell you from my own experience that around here, you go to the county hospital for a non-life threatening situation, and you pay before they see you. And there better be a lot of blood and guts if you are going to qualify for a life-threatening situation! I don't care if you are a citizen or not. They don't mess around! Same goes for urgent care facilities and doctor's offices.
But what I am more interested in. You must explain to me why you view information coming from the Southern Poverty Law Center as unreliable. As far as I know, this organization has been pivotal in righting social injustices and promoting civil rights in this country for the last thirty years or so and has always been a reliable source of information.

Laura

Those who claim that Republicans are better than Democrats when it comes to dealing with the problems of illegal immigration are wrong.

President Bush, a Republican, is in favor of a guestworker, amnesty, legalization plan for illegal aliens and their employers. Throughout his presidency, Bush has refused to enforce current immigration laws. Bush believes he is above the law and can consequently pick and choose which laws are enforced, which are ignored, and which are laws are to be deliberately broken.

Spector, a Republican senator, has also proposed amnesty legislation for illegal aliens and their employers. Frist, a Republican senator from TN, has caved in on an amnesty guestworker program and stated that he will add a guestworker admendment to his legislation. Hagel, a Republican senator from Nebraska, and Martinez, a Republican senator from Florida, have introduced an amnesty guestworker legislation for illegal aliens and their employers. McCain, a Republican from Arizona, has his own amnesty bill for illegal aliens and their employers. The only democrat in this mess is Ted Kennedy who has co-written amnesty legislation with McCain (again a Republican).

The Republicans control all three branches of the federal government. If Republicans wanted to solve the immigration problem, they would have already done so. They have not. Voting for Republicans is not going to solve the immigration problem.

As a democrat, I wish that my party would return to its roots and support policies that help the working and middle class. This nation is not a nation of illegal aliens. The current economic, energy, and environmental situation in the USA does not benefit from importing massive numbers of immigrants with low skills and low education levels. The United States is in fact full. We can not handle massive immigration levels. We lack the jobs, infrastructure, natural resources, space, and money to humanely take enormous levels of new immigrants. It is better to help improve the conditions in the developing world than to flood the USA with massive numbers of immigrants from the developing world who require an enormous amount of government social services.

Implementing a well thought out, well reasoned immigration policy that respect the values of the citizens of the USA and actually enforcing that immigration policy is the most reasonable action to take. We can not implement or enforce an immigration policy if we reward those who break our immigration laws with amnesty or legalization. This will only encourage more foreign citizens to break US immigration laws and make it more difficult for US citizens to control immigration. Yes, I believe that US citizens should control who comes in the USA and how many come into the USA.

Check out these links to inform yourself about the immigration issue.

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer

http://www.numbersusa.com/index

Californians for Population Stabilization
http://capwiz.com/caps/home/

Not Amnesty But Attrition
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/markoped032204.html

Sorting Through Humanitarian Clashes in Immigration
http://www.thesocialcontract.com/cgi-bin/showarticle.pl?articleID=671&terms=

"The vast majority of undocumented migrants from Mexico were gainfully employed before they left for the United States. Thus, failure to find work at home does not seem to be the primary reason that the estimated 6.3 million undocumented migrants from Mexico have come to the U.S."
http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=58

I have been contacting my democrat representative and my republican senators about the current immigration legislation. I received a reply from my house representative, Dan Boren a Democrat from Oklahoma, yesterday. I'd like to share this letter with you.

Thank you for contacting my office to share your immigration concerns, particularly relating to important issues like amnesty, totalization, and guest worker caps. I share your concerns and assure you that I am doing everything I can to keep America safe and preserve the quality jobs in Oklahoma.

On December 16, 2005, the House of Representatives passed the Border Protection, Antiterrorism and Illegal Immigration Control Act (H.R. 4437). This legislation included provisions that would make illegal residence in the United States a felony and that significantly strengthen penalties for illegal immigrants involved in drug trafficking. This legislation did not include a guest worker program and no amendments to create a guest worker program were considered. I voted for this legislation because it is a first step towards securing our borders and solving the illegal immigration issues our nation is facing. This legislation must now be considered by the Senate.

I believe immigration laws should reflect our common-sense Oklahoma values and protect quality jobs for hard-working Oklahomans. I am opposed to illegal immigration and believe that we should more actively enforce immigration laws. While America has always been a welcoming nation, illegal immigration creates an underclass of workers who provide unfair competition with hardworking Americans struggling to make ends meet. That is why I have fought for funding to enforce the immigration laws we already have. I have also recently voted for reforms like strengthening drivers license requirements, establishing better standards for admitting asylum-seekers and giving the Secretary of Homeland Security the authority to build a fortified border fence near San Diego.

The great promise of America is simple: a better life for all who work for it. As we all know, the opportunity to build a better future starts with a quality job. That is why I go to work every day in Congress to help American jobs and American workers.

Thank you once again for taking the time to share your thoughts and opinions with me. If there is anything else I can do for you please contact my office.

Respectfully yours,

Dan Boren
Member of Congress

I think the Democrat party should return to its roots of supporting the interests of the middle and working class US citizens. I'm am including some excerpts and a link to the an article that appeared in The American Prospect magazine. This article contains a strategy to win elections through appealing to the economic, bread and butter interests of voters rather than the three G's (Guns, God, and Gays).

It is the path Karl Rove fears. He knows his GOP is vulnerable to Democrats who finally follow leaders who have translated a populist economic agenda into powerful cultural and values messages. It also threatens groups like the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), which has pushed the Democratic Party to give up on its working-class roots and embrace big business' agenda. These New Democrats, backed by huge corporate contributions, say that the party must reduce corporate regulation and embrace a free-trade policy that is wiping out local economies throughout the heartland. They have the nerve to call this agenda “centrist” even though poll after poll shows it is far out of the mainstream. Yet these centrists get slaughtered at the ballot box, and their counterparts -- the progressive economic populists -- are racking up wins and relegating the DLC argument to the scrap heap.
The code’s seven lessons are clear, and have been for some time. The question is, will party insiders see the obvious and finally follow their real leaders? Or will they continue mimicking Republican corporatism, thereby hastening their own demise?
Free-trade critics like Democratic Representatives Mike Michaud, Ted Strickland, and Tim Holden, who perpetually win Republican-leaning districts, are rewarded for their stands with support from these kinds of businesspeople, who had previously been part of the GOP’s base. The U.S. Business and Industry Council, which represents America’s domestic family-owned manufacturers, now lists these and other progressives at the top of its congressional scorecard.
Unfortunately, these kinds of trailblazers are not yet being rewarded by their own party in Washington. According to reports, the House Democratic leadership is considering promoting some of the most ardent free traders to the Ways and Means Committee, the panel that oversees trade policy. Apparently Democrats have not yet lost enough seats in the heartland to honestly address their Achilles heels.
This is why populism is ultimately the way back for Democrats. Because, as red-region progressives show, having the guts to stand up for middle America -- even when it draws the ire of corporate America -- is as powerful a statement about morality and authenticity as any of the GOP’s demagoguery on "guns, God, and gays."
All the Democratic Party has to do is look at the election map: The proof is right there in red and blue.

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8917

I'm not embarrased to say that I've become a single issue voter when it comes to illegal immigration. I feel as strongly on this as the pro-life religious right is on that issue. I will vote for (and only for) any candidate that will take a strong law and order stand towards illegal immigration, enforcing sanctions on employers who hire them, and will close the open border.

This 20 years of non-enforcement and winking at the problem by the most powerful leaders in our country is at the core of the problem. Big business controls this country and their self interests and greed are destroying it and the middle class. Unless we fix this problem, life in this country will change.

I am absolutely sure business is deeply involved in the financing of this current spate of unrest and rallies against proposed immigration law.

Brick, You're right in that I will bring my spouse in legally but I am concerned about the immigration issue. I've seen too many friends be told that their spouse would be given a green card only to have the person rejected 'due to a clerical error'. They're then told that the only way in is to pay the money again and start the whole process over and hope that it goes well. I wonder how many illegals have tried to do things the legal way only to be rejected. I don't think making them legal will solve the problem. For those on the border if they want to cross over and work with a special work permit, I can understand that but I think making everyone legal sends the wrong message. We're telling everyone that if you do something illegal long enough it will be overlooked and forgotten about. If you have a child that continues to steal or vandalize, are you just going to ignore it because they keep doing it and no matter how much you say that's wrong they keep on. No because you realize that if you don't stop the problem, the problem can escalate and get far worse. I feel the same for all the illegals, if we legalize their status then we're sending a message to others that it's okay to break the law, it's okay to come into the U.S. illegally and steal or do whatever is necessary to remain there because if you wait long enough all will be forgiven and you'll be legal. I don't believe that we should stop people from coming to the U.S. legally through normal procedures because the U.S. is the best country and has so many opportunities, people from other countries and cultures add to the U.S. experience. That's one of the things that makes the U.S. so wonderful. However I do feel that legalization is wrong. I can understand working under a special permit but once the job is over then it's back to your own country unless you can get another employer to sponsor you legally or unless you've become an American citizen during your time in the U.S.

I am dismayed that the democratic party is so out of touch. Get your people out in the southwestern states and find out what what the voters of all parties have to say.

I have made the rounds of a dozen media commentary sites and political blogs over the past couple weeks. Surprise folks, I found that 95% of voters in these areas most directly affected by illegal immigrants support felony charges for employers and border crossers.

The Time Magazine Poll must have been taken in the midwest and affluent areas that have never seen their quiet neighborhood turned into a crime ravaged Juarez slum, had their wives and daughters sexually harrassed by the mobs of these criminals that hang out in front of the home improvement centers. They havent had to drag their heartbroken children away from the County Fair or fold up their Sunday picnic because of drunken mobs of Mexicans shouting shoving their way through crowds, groping women, and grossly disrespecting anyone near.

These people are not paying taxes as one post claimed, they work under the table. Many are not mowing grass or working the fields, they are taking good construction jobs. They are picked up by sub-contractors in front of the Home Depot and paid as contract labor. Do you actually believe they are filing those 1099 tax forms they recieve bearing the stolen social security number?

I have been a Democrat since I was 18 and haven't missed an election in nearly 30 years.
But I will not vote for anyone that even remotely endorses rewarding these criminals for scoffing at our laws, or the employers that hire them.

And if the Democratic Party holds to this course, my voter registration card will read Independent. I know I wont be alone in this.

TUG...contrary to what you believe, I am a life long Democrat. No I haven't been to this site before, I have previously directed my concerns to the local Democratic Party leaders.

Why do you find it so hard to believe that Democrats are so appalled by their partys elected officials stance on this issue, that they are taking it to a national forum for the first time.

If I were as paranoid as you, Id think you were the republican here, trying to undermine and discredit the opinions of these people.

We all put our post here hoping our candidates will read them and get back in touch with what the Democratic voters want from them.

Fiscalchaos, I'll tell you what I am disgusted about. Any Democrat who would vote Republican simply because of an immigration bill doesn't make sense to me. I am a life long Democrat and I don't like some of the things our leaders are doing but I don't like any of the things Republicans are doing. You don't punish the party by voting Republican , you punish yourself and every other Democrat by electing these scoundrels who have been screwing you and me on everything else. Does nothing else matter to you other than illegal immigrants being in this country? The timing of this is to try to drive a wedge in our party because Republicans are in election trouble and this the only card they have left in the deck. Our goal should be to vote out every Republican you can in office anywhere because that is what it will take to make your and my life better. We have immigration laws on the books that do what you want yet Republicans have had six years to enforce them and have not. You have had all this time to yell and scream yet you haven't. Why now?
Do you want to round them up and send them back? How can that be done? How can you tell who is and who isn't? Do they have a computer chip implanted somewhere so you can locate them? Who is giving them all these jobs that you claim they steal? You and a lot of people haven't thought this thing through very well.

I have yelled and screamed to the leaders of our party on many occasions because they have let many issues slip through their hands but I am a Democrat. My life was much better when Democrats ran the show. I don't like dictators and crooks running the government. I don't like liars taking us to war to let thousands of Americans die for nothing and I don't like people who think paying your last dime for medicine that is less than half that price in some other country, is the thing for Americans to do. If you like all that vote Republican and show the Democrats a thing or two. That would be real smart. This party is far from perfect but it sure as hell beats the alternative. Maybe you should think of that. I couldn't vote for a Republican for any office in any state or anywhere because I know they are all alike and if I want screwed I'll take the kind that don't last very long.I know who the enemy of the American middle class is and it isn't illegal immigrants.

fiscalchaos

Be careful with your statements. There are as many "drunk" whites and blacks and Indians and whatever else out there as there are Mexicans. The Mexican culture is beautiful --religious and deeply family orientated. Please do not stereotype because of your few bad encounters. Not only have I lived in Mexico for a number of years, I live in a neighborhood where I am the only non-hispanic person on my block. Not only have I never had a 'bad' experience living there, I have had many wonderful, heartwarming experiences with my neighbors and friends. Regarding your claim that these undocumented workers are not paying taxes-- I am not for one moment suggesting they are filling out 1099 forms -- in this they are much like 50% of hairdressers, handymen, and other misc folks who do not pay their taxes either. Have you ever worked in a restaurant? Did you claim 100% of your tips? (This does NOT make it ok, I'm just letting you know they are a small portion of the non-tax compliant public.). When I said they pay taxes, I was referring to the taxes they pay on everything they buy. It adds up to quite a bit of money. Obviously they should be paying more -- and would if they were part of a legal system -- but to say they do not contribute to the economy at all is false.

I am all for immigration reform -- I agree that we cannot seem to take care of the people we already have in this country - one just has to look at the mentally ill living on our streets, children who go to bed hungry and the quality of our education system to see how much work we have to do. And I think we all would agree that Hurricane Katrina drove this point home.

However, if you are for immigration reform to get rid of the "drunk Mexicans" in your neighborhood -- you are missing the point.

I have been a Democrat all of my voting life. Frankly I am tired of touching #1 for English in my own country. If the Democrars don't move to protect our borders and make these 11+ million illegals leave, you are going to loose my support.

Tug

You seem vexed by the thought that anyone would consider voting for anything republican. Do you feel the same about Ralph Nader? Parties are a means to an end. I’ve always thought that the Democratic Party had the best plan for the USA. When my democratic friends voted for Nader and making it possible for Bush to win I was amazed, no make that bewildered. If someone has a better plan, one that can implemented in the real world then I have to consider the option. Nader was and always be a loser, as is any third party. Not enough votes to count.

What about the Democratic Party? Well they have me totally confused especially on the illegal immigrant issue. Think back a few weeks ago when all he.. broke lose about the Dubai port deal. The democrats were so concerned about the POSSIBILITY that something or someone could be smuggled into this country by Arabs. Now compare this to illegal immigration where we know for a fact that there are ten million Mexican some ones and countless some things smuggled into this country. Democrats want the tighter control of the ports, but no control over the Mexican boarder. Totally illogical. Completely indefensible. Absolutely irrational.

If security is a concern then you must be for a wall. Not to keep the good guys out, but to keep the bad guys and the bad things out.

Dealing with the good people is a different issue.

JFalsetta? Touch #1 for English. This is definitely a republican sound bite and it sounds artificially high too.

OK, English should be our official language. You shouldn't have to speak a foreign language in your own country. It's a great USA tradition that the new guy learns English. That's why and how we participate in this forum. No Italian, Polish, Spanish, French, Chinese, Russian.. It's hard enough as it is.

How many laws does an illegal immigrant break by coming into our country and staying here?

How many times does he have to lie?

How many fraudulent and dishonest acts does he have to commit to live and work here?

Can he get a driver's license legally?

How about a medicaid card?

Can he get welfare or TANF legally?

How about social security?

Does he lie to his employer?

Are these the kind of people we want as citizens?

Don't we have enough liers already?

You are so wrong on this issue! Tom Tancredo is right on the money.

I used to live in Colorado, it has been overrun with illegal Mexicans. They are driving down wages, demanding social benefits and not paying taxes. American citizens are footing the bills. Many parts of this country are being turned into a barrio.

Their employers are skirting worker protection and tax laws. They are criminals!

The solution: Mexico is a sick country, it needs fixed. Regieme change would be better applied there than in Iraq.

We cannot continue allowing Vicente Fox to export his poverty here and have his people sending money back to Mexico. This is bleeding us dry. We simply can't absorb it.

These people need to be deported. Their employers need to be fined and/or tossed in jail. No comprimises. No caving in to business interests! The American people are speakign clearly on this, just go to any message board and see for yourselves. Enough is enough!

Pay attention democratic party! You will lose a lot of votes over this in November if you keep pushing for an amnesty. It would be a catastrophy, allowing Bush to have 2 more years of unimpeded monarchy.

TUG, we're not GOP's. I understand your frustration. I think many of us see this issue as our party and country walking away from us. There will be no representation for us if this deal's done and we'll cease to exist after a time.
Check out the site below to see what I mean. We're about to repeat history.

http://www.dinocrat.com/archives/2006/04/07/thirty-years-of-blather-on-illegal-immigration-thirty-years-of-doing-harm/

12,000 days have passed in the modern age of immigration ‘reform.’ The US government has nothing to show for it but millions of wasted words and millions of illegal immigrants.

If we agree with anyone on this issue, it’s probably Charles Krauthammer, who apparently takes the Hippocratic oath seriously in matters other than medicine, since he first wants to do no harm, which is the way we see the wall (or similarly effective means of actually controlling the border). The wall and its equivalents are the number one priority, as we also have written, and then human matters can be dealt with humanely. We don’t expect miracles from a wall, but certainly talk and good wishes accomplish nothing at all. Here is the decade an a half of debate preceding Simpson-Mazzoli in 1986, via the NYT:

– Sept. 12, 1972: The House of Representatives, by voice vote, passes a bill to impose penalties on employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens. The bill is offered by Representative Peter W. Rodino Jr., Democrat of New Jersey, as a way to prevent exploitation of illegal aliens by employers. The Senate takes no action.
– May 3, 1973: The House, by a vote of 297 to 63, again approves a bill forbidding employment of illegal aliens. Again, the Senate takes no action. Aug. 4, 1977: President Carter asks Congress to prohibit the hiring of illegal aliens and to give legal status to illegal aliens living here since 1970.
– October 1978: Congress establishes the Select Commission on Immigration and Refugee Policy, which includes eight members of Congress and four members of President Carter’s Cabinet.
– April 1980: Cuba allows the first of 125,000 ‘’boat people'’ to sail for Florida, heightening concern in the United States about illegal immigration.
– Feb. 26, 1981: The Select Commission, headed by the Rev. Theodore M. Hesburgh, recommends a one-time amnesty for most illegal aliens, penalties for employers who hire illegal aliens and a ‘’modest increase'’ in legal immigration.
– July 30, 1981: The Reagan Administration announces its immigration proposals, which resemble the Hesburgh commission’s.
– March 17, 1982: Senator Alan K. Simpson, Republican of Wyoming, and Representative Romano L. Mazzoli, Democrat of Kentucky, introduce a comprehensive immigration bill incorporating many proposals of the Hesburgh commission, including one-time amnesty for illegal aliens.
– Aug. 17, 1982: The Senate approves the bill, 80 to 19.
– Dec. 18, 1982: The immigration bill dies on the floor of the House as time runs out with nearly 300 amendments pending. Hispanic groups, blacks, labor unions, business organizations and farm groups all objected to parts of the bill.
– May 5, 1983: Starting over in a new Congress, the House Judiciary Committee approves the immigration bill, 20 to 9.
– May 18, 1983: The Senate, by a vote of 76 to 18, approves the Simpson-Mazzoli bill again.
– Oct. 4, 1983: Thomas P. O’Neill Jr., Speaker of the House, blocks action on the immigration bill for the rest of 1983, saying he can find ‘’no constituency'’ for the bill. His action is, in part, a response to Hispanic lawmakers who fear that employer sanctions would encourage job discrimination against Hispanic Americans.
– Oct. 19, 1983: President Reagan, at a news conference, reaffirms support for immigration legislation.
– Nov. 22, 1983: Speaker O’Neill says that he will bring the bill to the floor soon after Congress reconvenes in January and that he has received assurances Mr. Reagan will not veto it.
– Jan. 13, 1984: David A. Stockman, director of the Office of Management and Budget, expresses concern about the cost of the Simpson-Mazzoli bill.
– May 2, 1984: At the request of the Presidential contender Walter F. Mondale, Speaker O’Neill postpones action on the Simpson-Mazzoli bill until after the California Democratic primary June 5.
– June 20, 1984: The House passes comprehensive immigration bill, 216 to 211, after seven days of debate.
– Oct. 9, 1984: A House-Senate conference committee breaks down in disagreement after 10 days of negotiations on a compromise immigration bill. The key unresolved issue is Federal reimbursement for cost of providing social services to illegal aliens who gain legal status.
– Sept. 19, 1985: The Senate, 69 to 30, passes a comprehensive immigration bill for the third time. It includes an amendment admitting up to 350,000 aliens as temporary farm workers. Labor unions and many liberal legislators had said this provision was unacceptable.
– Sept. 26, 1986: After the House votes, 202 to 180, not to take it up, Rep-resentative Rodino says the immigration bill is dead.
– Oct. 9, 1986: The House approves the bill, 230 to 166. A special program designed by Representative Charles E. Schumer, Democrat of Brooklyn, offers legal status to illegal aliens working in agriculture. The program appears to meet farmers’ needs while protecting workers’ rights.
– Oct. 14, 1986: A Congressional conference committee agrees on a compromise immigration bill reconciling differences between the House and the Senate.
– Oct. 15, 1986: The House approves the compromise immigration bill, 238 to 173.
– Oct. 17, 1986: The Senate approves the immigration bill, 63 to 24, clearing it for action by President Reagan.

And after all that debate, all those parliamentary moves, all that posturing, and all that hard work, nothing changed, except that matters got even worse. But hope sprang (and apparently still springs) eternal. The first NYT editorial on the bill dates from March 1982, and also illustrates the pride of place that blather has over action. It begins with one of the favorite words of liberals to show they are a kinder, gentler sort of mean-spirited guy: the Simpson-Mazzsoli measure is ‘tough’:

First, tough. The United States cannot conceivably let in all the worldwide millions who want in. That means controlling our own borders and that, in turn, means something called employer sanctions. Federal law must forbid hiring illegal immigrants and also provide employers with a way to identify who they are. The Simpson-Mazzoli bill would do both. Without being specific, it calls for the gradual development of a limited, reasonable process of identification.

Second, fair. There is growing sentiment in Congress for a harsh ceiling on immigration. The Simpson-Mazzoli proposal accepts the principle, calling for a limit of 425,000 people a year (apart from refugees, whose entry is regulated by a 1980 act). The 425,000 figure is low and subject to bargaining. But it is neither arbitrary nor regressive: it approximates present immigration, which the country knows it can handle comfortably.

Third, humane. A large number of foreign migrants - maybe half a million, maybe two and a half million - have lived in this country for years, but under a cloud: they entered illegally. Fearful of detection, they are vulnerable to exploitation. Previous proposals for amnesty have failed as too harsh or too soft-headed. The new bill strikes a reasonable compromise, providing legal status to aliens if they have lived here since 1978.

Sadly, the NYT no longer uses the word ‘tough’ in its immigration editorials, like a recent one on the current bill, and seems more amnesty-friendly than it was when the problem was a fraction of its current size. The Times says of the current legislation: “It combines, sensibly, tighter borders with a path to citizenship for people here illegally.”

We’re not writing this to pick on the NYT. Rather to point out in each of the the 12,000 or so days since Peter Rodino spoke on the issue in the House, millions of words have been spoken by politicians, and millions of gallons of press ink have been spilled to no effect whatsoever, while an average of 1000-2000 illegal immigrants stole across the border every day. It should be obvious that the only way to control the border is to control the border; talking about controlling the border is worse than a waste of time, and it allows matters to get worse every single day.

UPDATE

We always laugh when we hear President Bush say that nonsense about the illegal immigrants doing the jobs that Americans will not do. (1) we suppose that is true, if he is stating that Americans will not fix airplanes, work in nuclear plants, or clean up in Wal-Mart; (2) do Bush’s comments imply that once these illegals get their anmesty, they will suddenly stop doing these jobs, and we will need even more illegals?

I agree 100% that English should be declared the National Language. So many people are surprised when I tell them that the U.S. doesn't have an official language. That the government is so afraid of losing the spanish vote that they refuse to take a stand and declare English as our language.
Making these immigrants legal will not solve the problem, it will only make matters worse and give the wrong idea to so many others who are contemplating illegal entry to the U.S.

A Northeastern University study found that nearly 86 percent of all newly employed workers hired from 2000 to 2005 were immigrants. For men, the statistics were more stark. In that time, the labor market for men rose by 2.66 million while 2.77 million foreign-born men found work. In other words, Sum said, immigrants have begun replacing native-born male workers.
(MSNBC Article)

The corporate controlled media have not shown a single victim of illegal immigration. The Democratic Party is participating in this propaganda campaign by not presenting both sides of the issue for Democrats on this web site.

One third of our high school students in the U.S. are dropping out of high school. Illegal immigrants are taking near 100% of jobs available to high school dropouts. Any amnesty will destroy the future of one third of our children. Any Democrat voting for amnesty to destroy one third of our children should be thrown out of office.

Secure the border, throw the corporate felons in jail, then let us talk about other solutions!

Guest Worker Program?? This has been done in the past and look how well it has worked? Guest workers were eventually given citizenship and that encouraged even more illegals to enter this country. Why would this guest worker program be any different? For what I read, because of the potential for a guest worker program, the number of illegals crossing our border has dramatically increase. Swell.

What is wrong with actually enforcing our borders? I for one am for building a fence. Actually, two fences about 100 feet apart with the border patrol patrolling between the fences. The Israellis have built a fence and it seems to be working pretty well for them. Until our borders are actually secure, we will only get more of the same in terms of illegals entering this country. Where is our National Security when we need it?

Why do I feel like our politicians only care about special interest groups or pandering to a group with the hope of getting their vote? When are we going to elect people who actually care about this country and its everyday citizens. I for one am fed up and getting very frustrated with politicians catering to special interest groups and ignoring the wishes of the electorate. We must secure our borders first before anything else is done. If a guest worker program is put in place before the borders are secure, you can bet the stream of illegal immigrants are going to flood this country and the current strain on our local governments is going to dramatically increase.

Is our country's goal to join the 3rd world? It appears we are well on our way to accomplishing that goal -

Why do people who are here illegally have access to many public assistance programs? This is lunacy. So many illegals are being paid under the table so they pay no income taxes or any other kind of taxes (except sales) but are entitled to public assistance. They receive better assistance than people who are here legally. Do the rest of us want to continue to pay for someone who is here illegally. This is just plain crazy.

Businesses hire illegals to keep their labor costs as low as possible. If people are here illegally, businesses can get away with paying sub-standard wages and no benefits because they know illegals will work for low pay and no benefits. Why do we let the business community get away with this. Without the illegals, business would have to pay a competitive wage. Isn't this supposed to be the American way.

Finally, what is this I keep seeing and hearing about illegals demanding their rights. Lets get the thinking straight, they are here illegal so they don't have any rights to demand.

I’m listening to Marvin Gaye’s ‘What’s going on’ and I’m wondering what’s going on with the democratic leadership. Why are they so committed to illegal immigrants? Are they trying to allienate the backbone of the party?

Illegal, can’t vote.

Mostly Catholic, anti-abortion.

Work hard, but non-union, maybe anti-union.

Competing for the same jobs as USA dropouts (see forthepoor post)

Traditional, gay rights, not likely.

Patriotic, you can’t just ignore the Reconquista element.

What’s going on?

I believe both parties are out of touch with America and the independents are really hanging tough on deciding who has a nickle dime of difference between Republicans and Democrats.

First and foremost, lets agree that this is a nation of immigrants, a unique country. However, the illegals of today do not want to be American. Have you ever stood in line at a local convenience store and heard how America is denigrated by the illegals who were standing in line to buy lunch. They were day laborers.

We formed a nation of people who chose to be governed. They were not chosen, they chose and I think both parties need to sit up and listen to the American people for a change.

John Edwards campaigned on the stump speech that there were Two Americas. Yes, there is two Americas and for many different reasons.

A. Social Security and Medicare - a mess. Many elderly believe that they have to chose certain plans and it is costing them more because they truly do not understand the new rules. They chose a prescription plan because they believed the pharmacist or someone else who told them that they had to buy one or Medicare would chose one for them and that it would cost more. Scary but true. I talked directly to a Medicare rep who most emphatically said that my Mother did not have to purchase a prescription plan if she chose not to.

School Finance - a mess as well on all levels. Drop out rates - won't even go there but believe me when I say that this whole system we have is not working and trying to piecemeal a fix is making it worse. Cannot lower property taxes to buy votes for an election just so a state can stay Democrat or Republican. Cannot base your future of school finance on taxing bottled water or snacks or cigarettes when any downturn in an already cracked economy is not smart. You cannot base future money on a future that is so uncertain.

Taxes - just go look at the delinquent tax rolls of any taxing entity and see who are the owners who won't pay. Just don't be surprised.

Voting - we have a serious continuing problem of people who are feeling disenfranchised. We need to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to vote. Eligible voters, not people who were not eligible to fill out a voters registration because the DMV gave them one when they got their drivers license. Amazing how many illegals who were probably given a voters registration. And check this out, the highest surge in illegal aliens are in states who command the highest electoral votes crucial to a presidential election. How interesting.

Are you interested in winning votes or listening and doing right by the American people

I think that any future elections may have to be challenged on all levels, especially in areas that have a record number of illegals.

And to finish off, don't posture for votes. Ms. Clinton can forget about being President. She is not credible. Most of those Democrats and Republicans speaking out on behalf of upside down American flag waving protesters who are waving upright Mexican flags are not credible. Americans feel that we have been fed a huge helping of manure and then told to say thank you before we swallow it. Doesnt go down well with most Independents. We see their actions as an act of aggression. America has a language, a culture and a national identity and history. And giving into the threats of the illegals who openly admit on camera that they are illegals is irresponsible of our government who keeps promising to secure the borders, act on behalf of national security. We no longer trust any word of any elected official. Why should we?

We do have a worker program and it has been in existance for quite some time, why are you trying to create one? We have immigration laws which everyone disregards. How can we trust anyone who has shown contempt for the laws and sovereignty of this country.

Find real solutions because the Americans who know the stump speech by heart are still the same Americans waiting for an America where millions of Americans can get health care and improve the educational system, all eligible voters can vote without fear or interference, secured borders, and again have handle on the budget and see fair trade rather than free trade and see jobs come back to America which were outsourced. And please please please stop telling us that this is all good for Americans. We don't buy it anymore.

Bush “Temporary Worker Proposal” Caused Increase in Illegal Immigrant Crossings, New Docs Show

Read it here:

http://www.judicialwatch.org/printer_5350.shtml

As a lifelong Democrat, it saddens me to say that again, it's not the GOP that's out of touch but the Democrats. This is why we'll never win elections. I don't know who you are polling but you should visit some liberal blogs. The sentiment is clearly against illegal immigration. This influx of low skilled workers is depressing wages for the consituency that you are "supposedly" representing. And, I'm sick of hearign that "Americans won't do jobs that illegals will," it's that they won't do it at the rate that greedy CEO's want to pay.

Thomas, I'm sorry to tell you but read this blog, the democrats are out of touch. There are maybe 3 people that agree with what the democrats are pushing and the rest seem to be against it. I suppose it really doesn't matter because the republicans are weakening the laws too. They now are planning on making it not a felony to be here illegally. What happened to that whole "Home Security" thing and protecting the borders? Now both major parties are not protecting the people that live here. The Democrats are not in touch and the Republican's do what they want, now what happens? Everyone is just looking for the free votes. Just a side note, notice that this web site is also in Espanol.

Come on get some Backbone, you are selling out the American middle class, make it a felony if you are in this country ileagally. And punish the people that hire these illeagle workers.

If the democratic party wants to be the leading party and win, all you have to do is follow very closely to what Lou Dobbs has been saying for the last year, and help the American middle class. being soft on illeagle workers only hurts our country. Why have laws and rules if you will not enforce them!

For Garfisher:

Posted by garfisher on April 4, 2006 at 12:52 AM:

"I do believe some illegals should be allowed to stay in the country - to be used instead of animals for biologic warfare testing, cosmetic testing, new pharmacological component testing etc. etc.......Hang'em from the yardarm"

Wow, Garfish. Pretty passionate statement you are making there. I think there are some neo-nazi and white supremacist sites that would better fit your passions...and your comments.

Democrats on Immigration, from a concerned supporter:

I would hate to see the Dems blow this opportunity to gain control of the house or senate. I believe there are some important issues that require a check in the legislative branch. It is time for Dems to keep their eyes on the ball. I hear people talking about unseating other Dems because of a single issue they disagree with, stupid, stupid, stupid!!!
I ask you all to consider why the Republicans are in danger of loosing control? I believe it is because they have allowed their party to be run by a fringe group of Neo-Cons that do not represent the majority of Americans. Democrats should not allow themselves to be distracted from primary issues that are important to the majority of Americans. Every Democrat must prioritize their passions to accomplish real change. In other words, don’t allow yourselves to be turned against one another because you have strong feelings about issues that affect a small segment of the population. If you think you can have it all right now, we may all end up with nothing.

IMO:

There will be no resistance to a path for citizenship, if the borders can be shown to be protected, slow the flow first. We are being side-tracked from the issue of border security, by an issue that is not urgent. Five years of Republicans proclaiming danger and doing nothing, that is something most Americans agree on! In addition, a path to citizenship with increased guest workers sounds allot like indentured servitude, with employers holding the card of citizenship over every worker they employ. Just imagine the ensuing corruption related to meeting the required criteria! How long have you been here? How long did you work? Which country are you from? Which laws have you broken? It sounds good on paper, but I suggest the truly humane response lies in raising the standard of living in Latin America and enforcing the labor and immigration laws we have against those taking advantage of people looking for a better life. There is no reason we can’t make it easier right now, for citizens to naturalize immediate family members more quickly. In reality, no one is suggesting that we bus 11 million people out of the country. I’m simply suggesting that we don’t subject them to a legalized system of indentured servitude, which in the end reduces the market power of all American workers, further diluting the middle class. The American worker is so weak right now, that it is very difficult for citizens to form unions to protect their rights. It is a mistake to think that workers totally dependent on their employers to meet criteria for citizenship will increase the membership of unions. Politically, It is an even bigger mistake to give the Republicans an issue that plays well with the majority of Americans in exchange for the chance to import some new support! I am not sure who talked the Democratic leadership into this position, but I am sure they should fire that consultant. It may all work out to play the politics of the issue, but there was no need to take that chance. Why settle for getting the vote because Americans are angry with Republicans, when you could convince them they were wrong about you?

It is time to take our party back from these corporate free traders that have trashed everything Democrats have always stood for. Slashing aid to the poor with welfare reform and sending our jobs overseas with NAFTA, these are Republican values. I remember when our party stood for working class Americans before the Clintons and their corporate friends took over! We lost both Houses of Congress and we still have not learned that standing by working people and against corporate interests held the Congress for forty years.

Let's discuss who benefits from allowing large numbers of illegal aliens to stay in our country.

Business - a large supply of willing workers means they can lower the wages they have to pay as workers compete for jobs, illegals can be paid under the table without taxes being taken out as crews cycle from contractor to contractor, unemployment and workers compensation payments are not paid to the state.

Government - agencies determine their "productivity" on the number of clients they serve, low wage illegals are very likely to use public social and health services, serving illegals increases "productivity". The need for these services can be used to argue for increased budgets, more staff, therefore more opportunity for advancement and higher pay.

Churches - it feels good to think you are helping someone, illegals often need help and they provide the opportunity to "feel good".

Schools - illegals provide the opportunity to create a bilingual education program, of course more money is needed, a larger staff, etc. A curriculum advisor(s) is needed to craft programs to meet the illegals special needs, new texbooks in English and Spanish creates all kinds of opportunities for staff growth.

Medical establishment - all kinds of opportunities for making money and expanding services, billing medicaid for benefits given to illegals, hiring Spanish speaking employees, etc.

Politicians - contributions from the aforementioned groups ensure their election, they sound compassionate and caring while screwing the American workingman.

The poor American worker will have a tough time defeating the interests of these whores.

NPR: Illegal Immigration's Impact on the U.S. Economy

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4817071

News & Notes with Ed Gordon, August 26, 2005 · Bill Spriggs, senior fellow at the Economic Policy Institute, and Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX) talk about the impact illegal immigration has on the American economy and what the U.S. government is -- and is not -- willing to do about it.

TUG...You see only what you need to to try to discredit others.

I never said I was becoming a Republican, I said Independent, meaning just being a Democratic candidate isnt enough to win my vote anymore as it has been for me in the past. ANY candidate I feel will serve this country better than his counterpart will get my vote.

The Immigration issue will be a major factor on how I vote. HR4437 and strict enforcement is the answer. Do you believe under a guest worker program these people are going to stay in the fields? No, they will be in mills and factories driving down wages there just as they already have done in the construction industry. Go to Minnesota and ask the ex-employees of Hormel.
And who do you think is going to fill the the jobs in the fields? The next wave of illegals.

Education? Wait until 11,000,000 pardoned immigrants bring their 20,000,000 children to live with them and demand we teach them english.

Healthcare? Will a guest worker program give them insurance or will it just congest our emergency rooms with more immigrants needing non-emergency services that will never be paid for.

Economy? Depressed wages can't be good.

National security? Drugs? Crime? Property values?
All directly connected to this issue.

So you just go ahead and vote blind, I prefer to vote responsible.