If he takes this position, will he resign his commission in the Military?
They should keep looking for someone who has the interest of the people in mind, instead of George Bush.

aww but dk2, don't they all serve "at the pleasure of the president"? which means at the dis-pleasure of the American people!

kinda reminds me of that annoying phone message, "i will call you back at MY convenience".

Relatedly:

Is anyone paying attention here? A high-ranking member of the military is seeking to run our country's civilian intelligence and security organization? This goes against our principles of separation and will break down the boundaries that allow for interdepartmental checking. This same person has said during today's hearings a few things that chillingly demonstrate his intentions:

1) He has not portrayed any plans to retire from the Pentagon
2) He believes that covert spying on private citizens was the right thing to do and legal
3) He has not answered any questions about torture (including one existing practice of nearly drowning suspects to get information)
4) He has said that the CIA "must be transformed, without slowing the high tempo under which it already operates, to counter today's threats." The vagueness of this statement marks it as fear-based propaganda.

Can anyone else see what's happening to our nation, right under our noses? A military man running the CIA? PBS gently transforming into a pro-right propaganda machine? Senate redistricting that insures that the democratic party can't win elections? Voter fraud?

Dems, your people need you to lead us out of this frightening time of powermongering and cold detachment from the needs of the people, and into a future where this country is goverened by its people once more. We need your strength now more than ever. We need you to be true democrats, fighting for our freedom to govern ourselves.

I'm concerned by the fact that the NSA focusses highly on Signal Intelligence while the CIA focusses highly on Human Intelligence. If General Hayden isn't prepared to beef up our Human Intelligence gathering capabilities, then he is not the right man for the job.

The Far Right Conservative Republican Wing of our government has control and we can't do anything to stop them; but any Democrat that votes for this Military Leader to run our country and be over the public citizenry without resigning his Military Commission should be hung by the neck until dead.

It appears to me this Right-Wing RED Regime that duped all the sheepish Christians that had their head in their a__, instead of the Bible, plans to have the Military Rule our Country. Bush tells us the Military isn't really ruling, while the Military is ruling. If the Military is at the border, the Military IS ruling. DO NOT BE DUPED. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

This is a RIGHT Revolution of the highest order against the people. This Bush "Hitler-like" Regime that is as far RIGHT as it gets. Hayden hasn't given up his Military Commission and his Commission should be given up before the hearings even take place. If the people wait for him to give up his Military Commission after his Military Confirmation, there is no reason to expect that this Military General will see the need to do so.

There is no stronger revolutionary power that the RIGHT can bring against the LEFT that to acquire full use of the Military's Revolutionary Power against the LEFT.

The Military does not belong only to the RIGHT and this Republican General not giving up his Military Commission is the epitome of revolutionary power being used against the LEFT. What this will do is bring all the power of our Military against us.

The Far Right Conservative Republican Wing of our government has control and we can't do anything to stop them; but any Democrat that votes for this Military Leader to run our country and be over the public citizenry without resigning his Military Commission should be hung by the neck until dead.

It appears to me this Right-Wing RED Regime that duped all the sheepish Christians that had their head in their a__, instead of the Bible, plans to have the Military Rule our Country. Bush tells us the Military isn't really ruling, while the Military is ruling. If the Military is at the border, the Military IS ruling. DO NOT BE DUPED. WAKE UP PEOPLE!

This is a RIGHT Revolution of the highest order against the people. This Bush "Hitler-like" Regime is as far RIGHT as it gets. Hayden hasn't given up his Military Commission and his Military Commission MUST be given up before the hearings even take place. If the people wait for him to give up his Military Commission after his Military Confirmation, there is no reason to expect that this Military General will see the need to do so.

There is no stronger revolutionary power that the RIGHT can bring against the LEFT that to acquire full use of the Military's Revolutionary Power against the LEFT.

The Military does not belong only to the RIGHT and this Republican General not giving up his Military Commission is the epitome of revolutionary power being used against the LEFT. What this will do is bring all the power of our Military against us.

The United States Congress passed a Law called the Posse Comitatus Act where it is illegal and forbidden for the U.S. Military to exercise Military Power against the people of the United States. But illegal didn't bother the military when the tanks rolled against the women and children at Waco, Texas. Illegal and forbidden doesn't seem to be of any concern to the RED leaders who are pushing the Conservative RIGHT-Wing "Project For the New American Century" that was started during the Reagan Administration and carried through the Clinton Administration AND APPARENTLY WILL BE FINISHED IN THIS BUSH REGIME.

If the Conservative Republican-lite "Project for the New American Century" Clinton Administration didn't have any problem using the U.S. Military against the people at WACO, then the RED Bush Regime sure will not have any concern for it being illegal and forbidden at the border or OR ANYWHERE ELSE. And, the RED Bush Administration will not have any concern about General Hayden ruling like Hitler, but We the People had better be thinking about what it will be like and try to stop this RED Regime from getting government control of the Military over the people. WAKE UP! WAKE UP!

Here is a link about the Posse Comitatus Act:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act

I agree with MNLib!This is like a bad nightmare,and I can`t wake up to end it?Why are we even entertaining a Military man for this position.Is eveyone asleep in Washington.Are there any democrats who really plan to say something?Isn`t anyone outraged by this nomination?It smells to high heaven!

Continuation,Even if he gives up his military status he carries way too much baggage from the NSA to be remotely acceptable.This is Big Brother stuff looking us in the face and it appears that the Democratic Party doesn`t have the Kahunas to say it!How can this not be spoken to?Are you all waiting for Feingold or someone?This is way too big to let slide folks,and if you do the Democratic Party will slide down with it!

Here is another link to further describe the necessity for the Posse Comitatus Act:

http://www.llrx.com/features/posse.htm

If we will not WAKE UP we will when we are herded around like cattle like Hitler did in Germany. Hitler would tell you that he was not a barbarian, Bush would tell you he is not a barbarian, but by my definition of barbarian, the Hitler Regime and the Bush Regime both fit the barbarian mold and somehow must be stopped before it is too late. Every move this Bush Regime makes is a revolutionary move against the LEFT. When are we going to realize that the LEFT's leaders can't be just a little better, the LEFT's leaders must some how stop this RED Regime by all possible means.

The Posse Comitatus Act is superceded by the Insurrection Act.

The Insurrection Act

§ 331. Federal aid for State governments

Whenever there is an insurrections in any State against its government, the President may, upon the request of its legislature or of its governor if the legislature cannot be convened, call into Federal service such of the militia of the other States, in the number requested by that State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to suppress the insurrection.

§ 332. Use of militia and armed forces to enforce Federal authority

Whenever the President considers that unlawful obstructions, combinations, or assemblages, or rebellion against the authority of the United States, make it impracticable to enforce the laws of the United States in any State or Territory by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, he may call into Federal service such of the militia of any State, and use such of the armed forces, as he considers necessary to enforce those laws or to suppress the rebellion.

§ 333. Interference with State and Federal law

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—

(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or

(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.

In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.

§ 334. Proclamation to disperse

Whenever the President considers it necessary to use the militia or the armed forces under this chapter, he shall, by proclamation, immediately order the insurgents to disperse and retire peaceably to their abodes within a limited time.

§ 335. Guam and Virgin Islands included as “State”

For purposes of this chapter, the term “State” includes the unincorporated territories of Guam and the Virgin Islands.

§ 333 authorizes the President to use "the militia or the armed forces" "to suppress, in a State, any insurrection" if it "opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws".

An insurrection is defined as "the act or an instance of open revolt against civil authority or a constituted government".

Marine:

When the Military was used against the women and children at Waco, TX, do you feel that was an insurrection?

How about the killing of Randy Weaver's family? Was that an insurrection?

When the Military shot down a bunch of college students peacably demonstrating, was that an insurrection?

Military force was illegally used in all these instances and I do not consider any of these instances to be any form of insurrection, but government oppression or tyranny. Just what do you feel constitutes an insurrection?

MarthaA, there is something wrong with your head if you can't see how the 3500 individuals surging across our border in direct violation of our laws might represent "an instance of open revolt against civil authority or a constituted government".

That's on a daily basis.

Here is also some information on the Insurrection Act from THE NEW YORKER, The Talk of the Town:

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/articles/050926ta_talk_lemann

It is worth the read.

General Hayden said today that he would be the one to draw the line...either you trust his "character" or not.

The mere suggestion that this is a country ruled by laws not "men of character" is insulting to the next CIA czar. Wonder where he got that idea?

Posted by Marine on May 18, 2006 at 09:30 PM

That sounds like a threat. Where do you draw the line?

Posted by virgo on May 18, 2006 at 09:01 PM

Once you make that leap of faith from civil to military authority, it's a real downward spiral. But it could be used against those setting it up just as easily as the general public.

Wouldn't it be ironic if Bush set the machinery in motion for his own downfall?

Marine:

I see starving, hungry people seeking a way to earn anything for survival on land that was once theirs because the Conservative RIGHT-WING Republic of Mexico doesn't provide work or subsidies for their population and the United States trying hard to be just like Mexico so that there will be a two-class system in the United States the same as in Mexico.

I see a wall going up for display and to spend more of the citizens of the United States taxes in order to further bankrupt the citizens of the United States.

I see no terrorists in the Mexican refugees.

The Conservative RIGHT-WING Bush Administration doesn't give a hoot about National interests; but is protecting the New World Order underclass for their capitalist greed.

The Mexicans that come here may make a little bit now, but will be just like the rest of the majority of the Working and Poor Class in the United States..

Marine:

I see starving, hungry people seeking a way to earn anything for survival on land that was once theirs because the Conservative RIGHT-WING Republic of Mexico doesn't provide work or subsidies for their population and the United States trying hard to be just like Mexico so that there will be a two-class system in the United States the same as in Mexico.

I see a wall going up for display and to spend more of the citizens of the United States taxes in order to further bankrupt the citizens of the United States.

I see no terrorists in the Mexican refugees.

The Conservative RIGHT-WING Bush Administration doesn't give a hoot about National interests; but is protecting the New World Order underclass for their capitalist greed.

The Mexicans that come here may make a little bit now, but will be just like the rest of the majority of the Working and Poor Class in the United States and should not be treated badly. They think they are getting away, but are running into the same situation they came from.

Marine:

How can the United States shut out Mexico's Political Refugees that the United States has used and abused on purpose for so long? Right now all over the United States when you call most utilities, you will have to press 1 if you don't speak Spanish. How do you suppose that happened? Was it because they are terrorists? I think not. You had better wake up.

Martha, there is nothing stopping anyone who wishes to seek asylum from petitioning the U.S. Government for it. In other words, if what you seem to be suggesting is true then we would have expected to have seen Democratic politicians granting Mexicans political asylum while they had control of the government. Your full of it.

Here's a clue.

There will always be a market for cheap labor. If the country next door has it, due to a difference in value between our dollar and their own, then work across the border appears lucrative. Add to that an underground structure of human smugglers, the necessary illegal documents, and employers unable to identify those documents as illegal and you've got yourself a case of well organized crime.

These people aren't running from anything, they are running to something, something sold to them by those who benefit from their travels.

In a sense, the hearing tapped into a Congressional inferiority complex that has been particularly acute under Mr. Bush, who has taken a muscular approach to expanding the executive branch's authority. Lawmakers like to say Congress is a "co-equal branch" of government; nothing irks them more than when the White House punctures that balloon.

To see the balance of power marginalized in the press is disturbing, once again. We are in trouble.

In a sense, the hearing tapped into a Congressional inferiority complex that has been particularly acute under Mr. Bush, who has taken a muscular approach to expanding the executive branch's authority. Lawmakers like to say Congress is a "co-equal branch" of government; nothing irks them more than when the White House punctures that balloon.

To see the balance of power marginalized in the press is disturbing, once again. We are in trouble.

Martha,

The PNAC operated DURING Clinton's administration but were not PART of Clinton's administration. In fact, Cheney and wolfowitz and Perle approached Clinton and told him he should invade Iraq and he refused to listen. They had nothing to do with Government.

And as for who was to blame for women and children killed during the WACO stand off, I blame the cult leaders who HID behind them, thinking the government would never do anything if they kept them in there. Men who were cowards and used them for pawns.

Pam Bergren:

What happened to FREEDOM OF RELIGION? or, is it just your freedom for your religion? Freedom of Religion seems to be working well for Conservative RIGHT-WING Religions like the religious political cult of Pat Robertson. How is his cult that thrives on killing defenseless Iraqi and promotes on television the murder of President Hugo Chavez of Venezula any better than Waco. Who has the greater sin?

The Waco Military incident was government oppression of the people by use of the military which is tyranny and was illegal all the way and President Clinton was in power at the time and could have stopped that massacre. Whatever the sins of those people were, the sin of murdering them all was the greater sin and a stain on our country.

I know you are DLC because I've dealt with you before Governor Dean was Chairman of the DNC.

Pam Bergren:

What happened to FREEDOM OF RELIGION? or, is it just your freedom for your religion? Freedom of Religion seems to be working well for Conservative RIGHT-WING Religions like the religious political cult of Pat Robertson. How is his cult that thrives on killing defenseless Iraqi and promotes on television the murder of President Hugo Chavez of Venezula any better than Waco. Who has the greater sin?

The Waco Military incident was government oppression of the people by use of the military which is tyranny and was illegal all the way and President Clinton was in power at the time and could have stopped that massacre. Whatever the sins of those people were, the sin of murdering them all was the greater sin and a stain on our country.

I know you are DLC because I've dealt with you before Governor Dean was Chairman of the DNC.

Pam Bergren:

If it were you, would accuse, condemn, denounce and kill, the procedure used by Janet Reno in the Waco incident, be sufficient procedure to determine whether or not you live or die?

Pam Bergren:

If it were you, would accuse, condemn, denounce and kill; the procedure used by Janet Reno in the Waco incident be sufficient to determine whether or not you lived or died?

Marine:

You are a marine, so I don't expect you to know anything about added value, wage slavery and how such things are tied to the U.S. Economy; but if you did you would know that the problem with Illegal Immigration is a problem with the U.S. Economy and how it is controlled by those who reap the added value that it provides at the expense of the Working and Poor Class workers and consumers who like the slaves in the Antebelum South and the Helots in Ancient Sparta provide labor as a productive class that originates both rude products and manufactured products, and provides a market for the unproductive class to realize added value from an economy that markets products of manufacture.

Requirements of both law and law enforcement in the U.S. Economy require monetary standards that cannot be met by the Working and Poor Class in the United States without criminalization of those who work at jobs below a certain level of monetary compensation.

It is the fault of our U.S. Congress, our U.S. Government and the people of the United States that go along with wage slavery of our own citizens that create the problem of illegal immigration by passively resisting wage slavery for themselves and in doing so create a market for wage slaves from Mexico.

Like I say, you are a Marine and Marines are expected to charge without thinking anything through, so I do not blame you.

It would be nice however, if you could get a clue and support the Working and Poor Class in the United States so that our own people would not have to be legislated into the position of wage slaves and be put into the position of having to passively resist and create a market that poor starving people in Mexico flock to because for them being a wage slave is better than starving.

Thomas, you obviously don't know what or who Marines are, for that matter you don't even seem to believe that they might be intelligent enough to have graduated high school. I think that it is safe to assume that you are merely being snobbish here, so I'll let it slide.

Understand this Thomas, wage slaves are created by greed. You would not believe how many orchards and farms have been shut down across this country due to the less expensive products being shipped from states like California, where inexpensive migrant labor has been readily available. Americans in general are to blame for what has happened, because they stopped thinking themselves as self sustaining communities and instead began buying into the idea of individualism.

If I could reverse this trend I would, because we would be all the better for it. I despise wasting money and fuel to transport a product from California that can be grown locally. Actually, it makes me sick thinking that Americans are so shallow as to ignore their local farmers and craftsman in order to purchase a product grown or manufactured elsewhere, simply because the cost is less. We are communities and we should act like it.

Pam Bergren and anyone who wants to know about the DLC:

Here are three links with all the information about the Democratic Leadership Council or DLC and the Right-Wing Project for the New American Century or PNAC that the DLC Democrats cooperate with:

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1463

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1534

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1295

Please read all three of these websites and you will have a firm grasp on why the DLC Democrats cooperate with the RIGHT-Wing RED Conservative Republicans to the downfall of democracy for all Americans.

If you want to learn more about the Project for the New American Century, just Google Project For the New American Century and there will be a map and all the information necessary for understanding of how the RIGHT will take over the world.

By the way, the Working Class and the Poor are totally left out of the benefit from the New World Order. The Working Class and the Poor are the underclass necessary to support the fascist neocons.

We are living in dangerous times. And I'm not talking just terrorists. Things are getting a bit too big-brotherish. I'm glad for some of this new technology and I can't say I don't use some of it like my cell phone, etc. But all of the things the president have done are adding up to a big picture that I don't like so much. Hindsight is becoming clearer so to speak.

No one has mentioned it yet but in addition to phone records the government has the ability to link phone numbers to email addresses. Around 2001, before the dotcom crash, Applied Signal Technology in Sunnyvale was already building specialized internet routers for the gov. Cisco was routers too, but for commercial purposes.(?) Phones were just starting to use internet protocol. Anyways, these were custom routers that collected information contained within internet traffic. The routers were simply attached to the internet at trunk sites and monitored the data as it went by. At the time, email addresses, from/to ip addresses, maybe even the associated data, were routed to government processing sites. It took them a while to get the processing horse power and software together to perform all the linking, and be able to see the big picture. You can imagine the quantity of data! Today phone calls, faxes, etc. get routed via the internet, so they are now able to collect and link together these type of data as well. The latest news reports about records that the governement obtained were for calls made prior to their ability to collect them automatically. Their database and software were ready to have the additional data.

It does help find terrorists you can believe that! But it can also be used against law abiding citizens.

Did anyone notice the pres visit to Cisco this year? Same reason? Maybe add some 'features' or productize the technology that AST developed?

Once the technology exists it's pretty hard to put it back into the bag. This president is putting in place all the tools that future presidents could use against it's citizens. Nominating the guy who designed the domestic spying infrastructure is just another clue.

I'd vote no on Hayden and I'm sure our democratic reps will too. But the republicans will get him nominated. Oh well.

PS - I wonder if they could track the presidents phone calls while he was governor of Texas? It would make all those Saudi connections a bit clearer wouldn't you say?

FRoller, I do not share your views on the world, although I have in the past. I have since awaken to the reality that some people in positions of power will take advantage of the situation, regardless of affiliation or background, and some will not. Now I know you know this, although you keep the suppress such thoughts because you believe that things look better that way. Well, I've got some news for you, things look better when you accept what is truly there before your eyes and act accordingly.

You will not find what you are looking for in a neat package. What you are looking for is instead made from scratch, every day, by people who care enough to stand up for themselves and their neighbors. The hope you seek is out there, it's all around you, and you can see it if you are open to the possibility that it might not look exactly as you had imagined it might.