BOOOOOOoooooo.....

Truly rotten bill! Dems will regret this day. This may even translate into losing seats in 2006. Bad move Dr Dean and Harry Reid.

So now, we have a bill that Pugs can use to disenfranchise voters with photo-IDS! You wait and see how many votes are ;ost because of this. Bush also has a precedent to violate Posee Comitatus by using the Guard on the border ... can you say Police State.

To boot, our economy will be trashed by over-competition for those jobs that can't be outsourced.

Thx for nothing Dems - you won't see another dollar from me.

Ok, yes or no...will Dean be on Hardball in the 2nd episode, considering Bush is taking over?

I hear he was great would like to see it.

This is a truly sad day for the United States. Just before the final vote, they voted on an amendment whereby the U.S. has to consult with the government of Mexico before we can build a fence. Unbelievable! We have truly given up our sovereignty.

Please Dr Dean - this is a disgusting bill. Mitch McConnell slipped in a provision that voters must now have photo ID cards. Can you imagine the disenfranchisement that will occur?

Immigration levels were increased excessively.

Professional H1B visa were increased excessively.

Bush and the Chamber of Commerce got everything it wanted.

Bush also found a way to violate Posse Comitatus by being allowed to use the Guard on the border. Police State !!!

You can have the damn amnesty. It doesn't make any difference one or the other to me. But, the rest of this crap stinks.

The Dems really played their parts as dupes on this one. I am sure Karl Rove thanks you from the bottom of his heart.

protects U.S. workers and their wages,

***

How in the hell does this protect U.S. workers and their wages? This is a complete joke! There is no new enforcement provisions in this bill for H1B Visas. All that we get from this crap is more competition for a limited number of jobs - that means lower wages. Will someone gives the Democrats an economics lesson!

Sunny,

I am not sure if Dean will be on or not...but I would venture to say that Crooks and Liars would have the clip.

President Bush and Senate Republican Leader Bill Frist must reject the anti-immigrant and un-American elements of the House bill.

***

Granted the House Bill is bad. There is no reason to criminalize illegal immigrants but the Senate bill is worst. There is no reason to have amnesty, double green cards, double H1b's and have a guest worker program to boot. That's is just plain irresponsible to increase our population by 300 million in 20 years - that will be the net effort of this crazy bill.

Did Dr.Dean even read the part from Mitch McConell where photo-ids are required to vote?

Come on that's an invitement to disenfranchise voters. Simply nuts.

Where is vote count??

The 62-36 vote cleared the way for arduous summertime compromise talks with the House and its more conservative measure with no guarantee of success.

***

Pugs have us exactly where they want us - fighting about immigration right up to election day 2006! We really blew it on many levels. The Dems won't be able to rally any populist support based on immigration. Did any Dems actually walk the streets the past two years and talk to voters? They are all concerned about excessive immigration, about border security ... this bill is our answer to them? I don't think I want to try to convince voters that the Dems are your friends.

Bush and GOP stinks for sure but this will not help our cause at all.

Posted by PeppermintLizzy on May 25, 2006 at 06:41 PM

Lizzy this may be what you are looking for:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00089

I will still stay with the Dems. There is no way I will vote for REPUBLI-CONS. I'm with the Dems on most issues.I have to think they have a rabbit to pull out of their sleeve on this immigration bill.

Posted by PeppermintLizzy on May 25, 2006 at 06:41 PM

Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act 62-36

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00157

This sort of vote is just what the GOP wants so they can point to it and say "See this is the kind of thing that will happen even MORE if you let the Democrats control congress." This is a bad piece of legislation that the Repugs know will never pass the house. They only did it to use against the Dems later. Why does our party have to be such suckers for things like this? If you and I can see this so plainly, what is wrong with Howard Dean and our senators?

There's nothing wrong with what dean's doing. It's the DLC and the strategists that's screwing things up for us.

I know he's got a tough task this year so he's doing his of being our leader,i just hate that there's alot of critics including the DLC who want to go after dean all the time.

He'll change things around and i think he'll be the one who will end Rove's schemes.

Why does our party have to be such suckers for things like this? If you and I can see this so plainly, what is wrong with Howard Dean and our senators?
***

iowadem,

It's truly a sad state of affairs. I am no genius but all it takes is a cursory examination of the Chamber of Commerce web site to see that the open borders agenda is that of the Chamber of Commerce. Acursory examination of history shows that the Repugs have used immigration as a way to trash workers wages for a long time. That was why Roosevelt was so cautious about immigration and kept it in check.

But what is truly momumentally stupid is that Dems voted for a bill that requires a photo ID to vote. I can just imagine how Repug poll watchers will harass voters and challenge them that their picture doesn't look like them. They'll use this as a weapon to suppress votes.

Well, you may be right that it will never pass the House. I hope it doesn't. But, it will waste alot of time and energy fighting over it all summer into the fall. It will take away from issues that do help Dems at the polls and it will alienate swing voters.

This was a bad piece of legislation all around both politically and economically.

The worst part is that Mexico has to approve of any fence in advamce.

We all knew the Senate would cave. They provided "zero" funding, gave earned income tax credit (means even if you don't pay any tax you get money back), and left the elderly and poor to split their meger benfits with 11 million more.

Thank goodness this bill is dead on arrival in the US House.

Democrats will not be able to deliver on all of the handouts they promised therby pissing off Hispanic leaders.

A great many Americans will not vote for any candidate that supported this legislation. That includes me. Once again the DP shoots itself in the foot.

Hey Indygal, that rabbit your looking for the Dems to pull out is actually a hand giving the working class of this country the middle finger. I was going to vote Dem across the board because of how bad the Rep party is but after the Dems SELLOUT of American working families and SELLING OUT our country as a whole when you look at the total cost of this in the 10-20 year period. I will now vote Rep across the board, even as much as I hate the Rep party right now. I didnt hear 1 Dem even bring up the total cost for this AMNESTY bill of theirs, not 1. If it wasnt for the Heritage Foundation and their report we would still be in the dark about the total cost. I hope the Dems have a net loss of seats come the fall.

One comment about the polls. Even though its says that 70+% would like a path to citizenship in the bill. They were never asked if they would still be for it if it meant a total cost of 50+ Billion $$ a year to the taxpayer and also that it would allow 66-100+ million new legal immigration into this country. I think if the people new the real #s they would not want 10-20-who knows when all said and done maybe 30 milllion ILLEGALS in this country now to have a path to become citizens. That is why the Dems didnt mention 1 time the total cost. They sided with big business and gave the rest of us the middle finger.

They sided with big business and gave the rest of us the middle finger.
***

Scoreboard:

U.S. Chamber of Commerce 10
People of the United States 0

Yep, we were beat again and bad this time.

dk2,

Thanks

dk2,

Thanks. So basically all the democrats except Nelson from Nebraska voted for this Immigration Reform.

Sunny,

Atrios has the clip up with Dean and Tweety.

Thanks Pep i always like Dean's interview's. By the way Mets lost. :-(

rjsnj:

Give it a rest. Republicans have majority vote in both houses.

Give it a rest. Republicans have majority vote in both houses.

Submission gets nothing accomplished!

America needs leadership that brings our country together and that delivers the comprehensive reform that the American people expect and demand.

I beg your pardon, but what American needs right now is to remove the neo-cons from power and to make sure they never are able to gain control again.

OPEN LETTER TO PAT BUCHANAN

Dear Mr. Buchanan,

I shall not be renewing my subscription to your
AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE rag because I can no longer
admire your standing up to the neocons. They at least
are loyal to something. Unfortunately, you are as much
of a con as the neocons. Goldwater said: better right
than win. But you are a total phony. On the
Scarborough Country MSNBC program-- it may be
Scarborough's country but not the America I defended
and supported-- you said that "we" are going to set
the laws and choose who comes into our country, not
illegals breaking our laws. Who is "we," the Irish
potato famine" refugees who came here and raised hell
or a century?

You speak of law and order and no amnesty. But what
about the Amnesty that your "America" has requested
from the Japanese Americans and the Black Americans
who suffered racial and criminal abuse at the hands of
people like you-- should they grant your likes
amnesty?

We were both with Nixon and we were both there when
Conservatism started as a movement in the 1960s. So no
one can fool anyone. Forgiveness is what REAL
Christians do as it is what REAL Americans do-- as so
many Black and Japanese Americans forgave the likes of
you. People pay for their crimes and sins. But as an
old man you continue to be a fraud trying to cash in
on your own polemical larceny now as ever. I say that
because in all your blah-blah in support of the
Congress-passed Bill that makes it a felony for an
illegal alien to work in the US and for an American to
hire one, you never once mentioned that the felony of
hiring an illegal alien does not go into effect for
SIX MORE YEARS. That's in order to give time for the
grubby business men who hire illegals to avoid the
same catastrophic fate that befalls an illegal worker
caught working in your kind of America.

In the end you are more of a scumbag than the neocons
and a cheap old political whore, condemning Bush for
recklessly causing the deaths of American heroes in
Iraq but the supporting his re-election so he can
continue causing the death of young American heroes in
Iraq. Phonies like you need to be cut loose and
amputated from the Conservative movement, amputated
like an infected limb, before it can recover from its
own fundamental moral corruption.

Keep your rag, American Conservative, for you are
neither a REAL American (having evaded war service)
nor a real Conservative (having hidden from view a
Congressional Bill you peddle that makes it a
felonious crime to work but not to hire such felonious
criminals. That does not make you a
"Paleoconservative" just a crud!

Daniel E. Teodoru

As the self appointed Queen of the Post CRA of 1964 Far Left Liberals, I would like to first, congradulate the Democratic and Republican Senate in Passing a Comprehensive Immigration Reform Bill.You all worked very hard.Special shot out to Russ Feingold on the passage of his "little" Ammendment to stike an idiot Republicans "mistake".LOL. ;D

Now,on to the CRAP!.Every single post above mine with the exception of Pepperment, is either a new poster or one who has been identified already as a Troll.So,all the threats acting as if your stopping the funds and what not, is so beyond bull sh*t, I can't tell ya how many times I've read little posts of fake trolls with that same threat.For you Trolls, I've a word of advice.

STOP PRETENDING TO BE ANGRY DEMS!. In other words, quit coming here pretending to be a pissed off democrat who ocasionally rants and rages.We ALL can tell the difference between you trolls and folks like me just being a little brat.See, I may say this or that complaint about my party,but I always come around and most times, I have high praise for our most beloved Democrats (Russ Feingold, Al Gore ect.).The attacks coming from ya'll are so obvious, it's almost funny.Look, we're not as stupid as you Republicans.We can tell you are fake when you come here dogging out dems all the time and praising Republicans and or Democrats we all have decided we hate.Like,Lieberman,Webb, Darby,and other idiots that don't represent our party.You can't fool us, so give it up.

In closing,you Republicans are so lame and so very desparate, you really think you can sway Democratic Base Consituents? Naw, despite what you have been drinking over there at FOX "not" News,our base is bigger than yours and smarter than yours.That's why,ya'll gotta try to steal elections because we are the real mainstream and our DEMOCRAT Party will take Congress and the White House.So, if I were a little Troll like ya'll, I would contact my Repbublican members of Congress and urge them to steer towards UNITY and learn real fast to work with the Democrats or else, they will kissing Reid and Pelosi *** for a long time.

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !

I'm disgusted with the spineless Democratic Party. I don't want compassionate, I want the flood of Illegal aliens to stop immediately not years from now. To pass this bill without stopping U.S Companies from hiring undocumented illegal immigrants is foolish and irresponsible. I keep hearing congressman and senators say the jobs these people take are jobs Americans don’t want. That’s Bull! You people need a reality check. Come down to South Florida and see how many illegal aliens have taken construction jobs. New Subdivisions were the majority of the workers on a construction site can’t speak English. I’m talking hundreds of workers doing everything from drywall to roofing, concrete workers, landscapers, and unlicensed electricians doing subcontracting work for electrical companies and utility companies. None of them a true journeyman, but they work cheap. They work without benefits like healthcare. Employers do not carry Work-mans Comp insurance on these workers. They pay them mostly off the books to avoid paying Income Tax and Social Security Benefits. Many of these Subcontractors us all illegal immigrants and take shortcuts by working unsafe. OSHA violations are common to get the job done faster and easier. I see this and much more everyday. It’s not fare to legit American and Foreign companies that do the work the right way. Americans want these jobs. For some reason Congress thinks that these people are all migrant workers.

Why would an undocumented worker that has something to hide come out of the shadows and take a chance that he might be deported?

Since these workers are undocumented how will you know how long they have been in our country. Seems to me they will all say they have been here long enough to get all the rights and handouts the Democratic Party can give them.

This and many other issues like allowing President Bush to side step the constitution. Lie to the American People on the Iraq war. The Republicans do whatever they feel like without consequence and I’m sick of the Democratic spineless response.

I thought the Democratic Party was for the people. But I can see that has changed. Democrats are more like Republicans and base decisions on votes and money from special interest groups and corporations. Not on what’s best for the country. There doesn’t seem to be much logic in the way decisions are made. It’s like decisions are made on false realities or poor information. Then the party hopes the American Public are foolish enough to follow your blind leadership.

There’s also too much corruption in both parties.

My wife is Republican, I’m a registered Democrat. We will both be changing our political party affiliation. We will both be Independent Party in the next Presidential election. But not before we try to vote as many Incumbents out of Washington as we can. Many of my friends and coworkers feel the same way. I will lobby to get as many as I can to do the same.

You lost our votes and our money! The two things all politicians care the most about.

I've been a Democrat all my life. This week, I'll be 64. I am leaving the Democratic Party.

As a disabled veteran, I am appalled that our legislators are complicit with the invasion of our country by illegal aliens, without fighting back.

I am sad and ashamed of what is happening to our country. It could be stopped. But you are cowards and opportunists. I won't be a part of that.

Veterans and X tell me this what does leaving the party acomplish,zilch. All it does is give the repubs more ammuntion for victories in future elections.

Please do not give up on us,we will fight back and we'll make sure the DLC'ers and the repubs pay for what they are doing in congress. Listen to Dean he's there for us. So please do not give up on us you are still our voices and a part of us.

WHAAAAA! WHAAAAA! WHAAAAAA!...."SEE YA!"

I will NOT apologize on behalf of the Democratic Party to these lying trolls who come here pretending to be Democrats.EVERY single argument,EVERY single question asked,if some of these idiots were paying attention,would know that the bill passed in the Senate,ALREADY ADDRESSED.That's what really ticks me off.These people who post these long azz rebuttals and condemnations against the Democratic Party are either trolls,trying to discourage Democrats because they know they are going to lose this year,or,they are utterly IGNORANT!I have a serious pet peve.I can't stand people who pretend or act like they are "dumb" .It just get's under my skin.I find it hard to believe that these people can afford the internet,but can't afford cable.They really need to watch CSPAN 2.If they actually watched the "Senate" Floor debates on Cspan 2,not the House on Cspan 1,they would'nt be so flipping stupid or think they can fool others.In any event,it's not over dumbazzes.There's a lot more to this process.

Whatever happens at the Racists Plantation of Representatives Compound,I will still be proud of the huge Bi-Partisan effort made by the SENATE.Those of you who keep on with your stupid threats, I laugh at you because I did the same thing when I would get mad.The difference between me and you? When I'm mad, I'll still vote.When most of "ya'll" get mad, "ya'll" stay home.So, to all those who really call themselves Democrats who are leaving the Party because you just can't stand Mexicans or whatever Webb/Darby excuse you have,please keep in mind,that for every Dixi-Dem that leaves,there's a Progressive Dem,who just turned 18,who joins.Our Party is becoming a Progressive one and if you don't like it that's on you.Pre 1964 is over.Get a clue.Get a life and while your at it,get a "heart".Calling yourself a 64 year long Democrat, means something very different to this young BLACK FEMALE than what you think it means.

One more thing.To all you "The Law is the Law"
Instead of talking about the Illegal Immigration Debate, why don't you "fake patriots" help the F.B.I find already IN our country,Fugitive Warren Jeffs? He's a Red State,POLYGAMIST,CHILD RAPIST,INSEST,KIDNAPPER,CULT LEADER,WELFARE FRAUD,MORMAN,HATE SPEECH,RACIST PSYCHO who is breaking "many" laws and has been doing so for far LONGER than we had an Illegal Immigration problem.Why don't you help the Government bring down his ILLEGAL activites? He's already in your states,I'm certain.Arizona, Utah, Texas, Oklahoma,........you know.(White America) He's got compounds ALL over this nation and little MORMON cult cities and towns and followers everywhere who preach racial hatred and white supremicy.Why don't "yall" go bug the hell out of Congress over that?

HYPOCRITES...with your "illegal is illegal" bull sh*t

What you really mean is "unless it's white illegal" right?

I am another life long Democrat who is against this bill. I think the Democrats have given an election edge to the repugs. The Democrats were not speaking for me when they voted for this bill, I am against this. You have not spoken for the millions of workers who have seen wages go down because of the illegals. I'm sorry if you might not believe me. I have voted Democratic all my life, as did my Mother and Father before me and their parents before them. This Senate bill is WRONG.

I will NOT apologize on behalf of the Democratic Party to these lying trolls who come here pretending to be Democrats.EVERY single argument,EVERY single question asked,if some of these idiots were paying attention,would know that the bill passed in the Senate,ALREADY ADDRESSED.
***

Actually, this sort of diatribe is equally destructive. Every concern has NOT been addressed. Bryon Dorgan and Robert Byrd were the only Dems with the courage to say that they didn't think this bill gives due consideration and protection to American workers. I agree with them 100%.

Show me where in this bill is there additional enforcement for H1B Visa abuse? Is the Department of Labor going to start enforcing the law that clearly says that a foreign worker can only be hired if there is evidence that there isn't an American worker available? I think not.

Where was the economic impact of this massive increase in immigration ever studied? Even the Economic Policy Institute agrees that temporary work visas are being used to displace American workers. That is not exactly a conservative think tank!

This is problem with a grab bag approach to immigration. We mix up amnesty with increases in green cards with increases in temporary work visas. What we end up is not reform. Instead, we end up with an incoherent mess that will hurt American workers.

I am a Democratic supporter. You can try to chase me from the site but I every right to protest this bill. By the way, the righties are already framing it as a Democratic bill supported by less than 50% of the Republican majority. It's being hung around our necks!

Some may think that's just terrific and are proud of this legislation. You have that right but don't you dare to tell me that I don't have that right. I contributed 1000's of dollars to this party and 100's of hours of my time. I earned the right to say that I think this is a sell-out of the American worker and doesn't have sufficient justification for these massive increases nor sufficient protection for American labor. I won't apologize to wanting to protect American workers nor should any Democrat.

I am another life long Democrat who is against this bill. I think the Democrats have given an election edge to the repugs. The Democrats were not speaking for me when they voted for this bill, I am against this.
***

I agree 100%. This is a bad bill. It will turn off a segment of the Democratic base and make it very hard to bring swing voters (Independents) to vote for our candidates.

The Repugs knew exactly what they are doing. They are even framing this as Ted Kennedy's bill!

Once again, their strategists outwitted us. They preyed our compassionate intentions to come up with irresponsible increases in the immigration limits.

Try to tell unemployed and under-employed IT workers that we need yet another massive wave of H1B Visas. The IEEE disgreed completely with this bill. They have been the best friend of IT workers. If they think it's bad, it probably is quite bad.

Are you people out of your minds? Are you watching Lou Dobbs? If the Democratic Party intends to take back Congress this fall, it must get to the center on this issue! It certainly doesn't help that people on this blog aren't taking Democratic voters seriously, questioning their credentials and calling them horrible names. I expect more from you.
No Democrat wants to perpetuate the "Harvest of Shame" (which should be a Thanksgiving tradition, not "Alice's Restaurant.) However, it was no accident that the Border Patrol was founded in the Department of Labor, not DOJ. The Democratic Party's goal should be to promote the domestic labor market as entitled to the same protections every other commodity is afforded in the U.S. economy. When working people can't earn a living wage despite huge demands for human resources, our Party should be in the vanguard fighting for the enforcement of our labor laws and border security. How can we criticize the President's war crimes, his high crimes and misdemeanors, and his complicity in the oil market fraud, if we do not respect the rule of law when it comes to immigration?
To court the Hispanic vote with policies like those passed by the Senate is shortsighted and misguided. There is no guarantee that the Hispanic vote will not eventually go the way
of the rest of the Catholic vote (picture: Sean Hannity, Pat Buchanan, and the rest of the class-traitor neanderthals) if we don't smarten up and get to the center, where the winner's circle is.

My wife is Republican, I’m a registered Democrat. We will both be changing our political party affiliation. We will both be Independent Party in the next Presidential election.
***

I can't say I blame you. There is no Independent Party by the way ... you would be simply "unaffliated" to any party. All that does is to prevent you from easily voting in primaries.

I look at what is going on and think there really is room for a 3rd party in this country. We could use something like a labor party. Both Dems and Pugs are ignoring workers. They seem to be paying way too much attention to corporate/business interests. That has left many of us feeling unrepresented.

I think it's better to stay and fight from within the party. A true progressive is someone that knows that compassionate starts at home. We need to pay more attention to what's going on in our own country. Poverty keeps increasing, bankruptcies are at record levels. What we didn't need was massive increases in immigration to create excessive competition for jobs. That is a recipe for depressing wages.

I agree that there is no such as a job an American won't do.

The easiest way to refute this argument is as follows:

1) Let's say we make the illegal immigrants into citizens. I am not saying that's the right thing to do but for the sake of argument assume that happens.

2) When that person becomes an American citizen, are they going to quit their job? After all, they are now an American and surely they won't do a job that Americans don't want to do. Right?

You see how easily this nonsense breaks down! The American are smart. They know that outsourcing and excessive immigration are being used to reduce their wages. They know these tactics are the reason why there has been negative wage growth over the past 5-6 years. It's not rocket science.

Those who keep pulling out the "racist" card should be ashamed of themselves. It's not racist to be concerned about the economic impact of excessive immigration.

When working people can't earn a living wage despite huge demands for human resources, our Party should be in the vanguard fighting for the enforcement of our labor laws and border security.

***

Thank you!!! This is the problem with our party. They are not thinking these issues through to the impact on the citizens of this country.

I am amazed how quickly they forgot about the fury over outsourcing and replacing American workers with H1B visa holders (temporary workers). Has the economy really improved that much? If so, why are we always complaining about it? Something just doesn't add up!

I am 58 years old and I have always been a Democrat. I have given my votes, my time and my money to support a party that I felt represented me.

The Democratic Senate vote for the immigration reform bill is the biggest betrayal and stab in the back that I have ever experienced.

I hereby renounce my support for this gang of fools who voted to sell out the hard working men and women of America in order to try and get a few more votes. Shame on you. I would vote for the village idiot or the ghost of Richard Nixon before I would vote for another Democrat.

The next time the Democratic party wants someone to volunteer time or donate money - ask an illegal alien - because my answer from this point forward will always be NO. Pandering to the illegal alien lobby has it's price.

God bless America and God damn you traitorous SOB's.

Howard Dean says "Democrats have consistently fought for immigration reform that strengthens our borders...."

But Democrats voted to put Vincente Fox in charge or our border security. The USA can't even build a simple fence without permission from Fox.

Illegal immigration is a problem because of the failed leadership of Vincente Fox. If Mexico was an economic paradise, nobody would be sneaking in the USA.

Now that Vincete Fox has so throroughly demonstrated his inability to run his own country, the Democratic senators have voted to let him run ours.

What a sorry day for America !

Immigration bill. Let's do some rough math:

This bill will create at least 66 million more immigrants over the next 20 years - I don't think I heard anyone dispute that claim. Now add in a rough estimate on population increases from the children of the new immigrants ... I think we can safely say there will a 120 million additional head count over the next twenty years. That means our economy must generate 6 million additional jobs every year for the next twenty years. Okay, it won't all at once but even if it is 2 million additional jobs per year, do we really think our economy will grow at that rate?

Okay, I know the baby boomers are retiring - that is about 60 million That still would mean around 60 million additional jobs are needed - around 1 million per year.

That's a tall order when most economists think the United States economy has peaked and isn't likely to grow at more than a 2-3% rate in the future.

If you look at the numbers, it just doesn't add up. I realize I am not being very scientific.
I also realize that if the economy is terrible people will stop coming in. But then you have the problem of even more people that are here looking for work.

Has anyone done a careful study? If you know of a study in this area, please post a URL. I rather argue using closely thought numbers than rough estimates.

Some people think I am panicing over nothing. I like to see some data that justifies the massive increases in immigration. Again, it is an economic argument NOT one about WHO comes into the country. I don't care about that! No racism please.

Yawn. All this blathering by supposed Dems. There is no mystery here. If the Federal Govt does not pass a bill, the states will pass all kinds of horrible legislation for political expediency. Take a look at Georgia's recent legislation. You want numbers? Take a look at www.drummajorinstitute.org There are dozens of studies that clearly indicate that immigrant's impact on wages is negligible. This is a human rights issue. Pure and simple. So many shrill voices, with so little understanding of the issue, and so little compassion.

http://www.dmiblog.net/archives/2006/05/an_open_letter_to_lou_dobbs_1.html#trackbacks

Read this as well.

We can sit and gripe on this site till the cows come home and no one is going to listen.
If you want to get some attention send your comments to the news media. If they get enough e-mail they’ll respond.
In the fall if you don’t like your party or their candidate and you can’t bring yourself to vote for the other party’s candidate write-in Blue Collar Worker. Let both parties know they’re out of touch with working people.
I for one will vote for the candidate who best addresses the issues the way I feel they should be addressed.

How Dare you! How Dare you!
Millions of Americans out of work and you boast victory?
The people who are working have both parents working and many working more than one job just to try and make ends meet because wages have gone DOWN over the last several years while the cost of living has skyrocketed. And you boast victory for a Bill that will flood the workforce even further and drive wages even lower?
Millions of AMERICANS with spinal chord injury are actually FORBIDDEN from pursuing the "American Dream" because in order to get to work they need someone to help them out of bed. They need attendant care. For just a couple hours in the morning and a couple more in the evening just to get in and out of bed, minimum costs $25,000 - $30,000 or more a year! Since $20,000 is poverty (Thnks to you and your buddies helping out cheap overpaid CEOs and their Corporations) a quadriplegic has to find a job that pays $55,000 or higher really just to live! Few jobs pay that well. And you have the nerve, the audacity, the stupidity to tell me to worry about and pay for millions and millions of Mexicans, people who committed a FEDERAL crime, so they can pursue the "American Dream". My husband and I are forced into poverty just because he is quadriplegic. We, like millions of people with disabilities have degrees and are qualified to work but we are not allowed to. If we want ANY help at all (only 2 hours a day) he has to promise not to work and never make more than $550 a month. If he or I work to pay our bills we are punished and the minimal help is taken from us and we cannot afford to pay for the overpriced care ourselves. Now, just for getting the care and promising we will stay in poverty the State gets to take our home from us, my husbands pension, and wipe out our cheking accounts because, with Congress' blessing, the State gets to make us pay them back. Even though we paid taxes all these years for such programs. Neither one of us EVER committed a crime let alone a FEDERAL one! But we suffer and pay.
You are worried about the standard of living of foreigners who crossed our borders illegally, people who come from countries who are KNOWN to harbor terrorists, who commit a FEDERAL crime and then continue to commit crimes once here for years? How Dare you!
The Democrats and Republicans alike have made it very clear where your loyalties lie and it is not with Americans! Even your site is in Spanish. I know what country you work for. Every member of Congress should be tried for Treason! The next election we need to empty out Washington and start over! We need to put Americans in office who Represent America and Her people and the best interests of this country. Not traitors who sell us out to the highest bidders and open our borders to make it easier for terrorists to take us all down.
How Dare you!

Democrats like the Flip Flopping Harry Reid can rejoice in their ivory towers provided by taxpayers while working Americans lose more of their future.

Look what Reid said about immigration in 1993 after the 1986 amnesty law.

You will need to query Search Thomas Congressional Record

103 rd Congress
Keyword: Immigration
Senator Reid
Period : 01/01/1993 – 12/30/1993

Just read what Reid had to say. Now that Reid has flip-flopped, look where he gets his money.

First 2004: 2004
Next 2006: 2006

Seems like our wonderful senate leader is helping his corporate friends in the construction and hospitability (lodging) industries keep cheap labor while taking in a bundle.

Shame on you Senator Reid for leading our party deeper into the folds of republicanism.

So many shrill voices, with so little understanding of the issue, and so little compassion.
***

Well really ... how about some compassion for the people here at home who are living in poverty and/or members of the working poor?
Charity/compassion should start at home.

I'll look at the study you pointed at.

from drummajorite.com

We share a distaste for Guest Worker Programs and other efforts that create a legalized underclass of exploited workers who have minimal enforceable rights and who will drag down the wages of American workers, just as currently undocumented immigrants who are vulnerable to exploitation already threaten to do. This "race to the bottom" is perpetuated by our broken immigration system. It must be fixed.

***

So you dislike a guess worker program? Wasn't that exactly what the Senate passed yesterday?

I didn't see any economic data to support your claims that immigration plays a small part in depressing wages. It probably would play a small part when it is not excessive. It's supply and demand, plain and simple.

But do go on ... maybe you have something else in mind such as a "living wage" law. Now that would trash the plans of the Corporatists. Then they couldn't bring in cheap labor at all.

My problem with this bill is that it doesn't address the worker. There is no additional enforcement of labor laws - prevailing wages for instance. There is nothing on living wage, etc...
It's just a large increase in the labor pool. Without counter-acting measures, it's bound to become a race to the bottom.

I also see no analysis of how people will potentially enter the job market due to this bill. Not that I expect that on drummajorite.com

I would hope someone would do such analysis.

Let's see a real study done from a group we can all trust such as the Center for American Progress or Economic Policy Institute.

I know what the Heritage Foundation is saying and I hardly trust that bunch.

The office Independent Party website (Independent American Party) can be found at usiap.com for those who think there is no independent party

***

That's a new one on me. I stand corrected!

For these reasons, the U.S. Commission on Immigration Reform, chaired by the late Barbara Jordan, concluded that present immigration numbers are a source of economic injustice in this country. The Commission recommended lowering immigration numbers significantly.

I guess Barbar Jordan must be some sort of conservative too. By the way, Barbara Jordan is the first African-American woman from the South to serve in Congress!

Here is a brief biography:

http://www.beejae.com/bjordan.htm

I suppose she must be a "fake Democrat" as well.

The only fake Democrats are the ones that sell out American workers. That is the roots of our party and our failure to protect workers is rotting those roots away.

I'm 59 years of age and have voted as a Democrat in every election since I first voted for John F. Kennedy, but the Democratic party no longer represents the people they are suppose to represent, the American people. Your stand on this so-called immigration bill has made me want to go register as an Independent.
This bill does nothing to enforce the measures in the bill. It tells the American citizens that we can't compete with illegal aliens, those mostly from Mexico, that they are better than American citizens. It tells me that you don't care about enforcing the laws on the books before any bill was considered and now pass new one's that won't be enforced either. Every person who hears about this bill no matter where in the world they are at, will rush our borders to get into the United States so they can one day receive amnesty, because they know it is OK, because the U.S. Senators and Congressmen and women say it is OK to break our laws. You tell them they need to learn to speak English, but once they enroll in the program to show the authorities, they need not go back to learn our language, because no one cares.
When they steal Social Security cards from American citizens and go to work it is the American citizen who had his identity stolen that will have to answer to the IRS and Social Security on all that money the illegal alien made in his name that will have to prove he wasn't breaking the law by not reporting it to the IRS. Thank God California is going to pass a law that will make drivers like me not have to pay for uninsured motorist, which are 99% of the drivers here illegally. If any driver is caught with no proof of insurance in his possession then law enforcement can check to see if the driver is insured on the spot by running the license through the DMV. This will surely help get illegal aliens off of our streets and highways, but the Democrats will find a loop hole and oppose it. You need to be a citizen to vote and your suppose to be proficient in English to be a citizen, but we still have to pay to have election ballots printed in languages other than English. I ask why? You side with Mexican President Vicente Fox on issues that are strictly American issues and that is the last straw for most American citizens. Mexico has had decades to help stop the flow of their citizens crossing our borders illegally and have done nothing about it except to tell our elected president and our Congress what to do. Mexico has done nothing to stop the flow of illegal drugs that crosses our southern borders and 99% of black tar heroine and marijuana comes into our country from Mexico. This alone would make me if I was the president or a member of Congress to cut our borders off to anyone and anything that is illegal. Our prisons and our jails are full of American citizens, mostly young people because of these drugs. We say we have a war against illegal drugs in this country. This is a laugh. If illegal drugs were made legal it would be one of the best business deals in the world. It would even bi larger than Enron once was, but you are to concerned about hurting the feelings of Mexico's president. I never thought I as an American citizen would be a minority in my city and my state, but me and other Caucasian American citizens are just that, a minority, before long with bills supported by the Democratic party American citizens will be a minority in their own country. My ancestors fled Germany in early 1700. They settled in New Jersey, fought in the Revolutionary War but weren't handed anything. They learned English, they pledged the American flag not Germany's, they raised families and obeyed the laws of God and man. Those families who were born here never called themselves "German-Americans." They were proud Americans. Today our country is full of people other than Americans. We have Mexican-Americans, African-Americans, Asian-Americans and so on and this is people that are American citizens. I guess it to embarrasing to call yourself an American anymore, because there are so many calling themselves something else and your helping them. The Democratic party I was once proud of that stuck up for the poor and Middle-Class Americans no longer exzist and I will not vote for a Democrat even if it means not voting at all and there is a lot more American citizens that feel the same. Harry Reid ought to be ashamed of himself!

There is no other alternative for an individual, participating in a legal-rational governmental system, to articulate his or her political will than through a political party. Until the federalist institutional finger-trap we call the two-party system is shattered by some historical cataclysm, if you're not a Democrat or a Republican, you're politically retarded.

Whereas the mentally handicapped number around 3%, the politically retarded of the American electorate have been empirically measured to be at 20%; one need only review the return for the 1992 Presidential election, where Ross Perot garnered just over 19% of the popular vote. These are the people who don't pay attention until the last week of the campaign, the people who hold us ideologues hostage. We're losing these people on the immigration issue. Zero-sum challenges to the rank and file's loyalty, if one doesn't accept the leadership's position of illegal aliens as human rights victims, is insulting on two counts. First, it is an adolescent, normative oversimplification facing considerable legitimate criticism. Secondly, who in the hell is anybody to question a Democratic voter's commitment to social justice over the issue of open borders?

Don't waste your precious vote on a third party, my fellow dismayed patriots-- the Party's just getting started here!

Um not voting democrat huh,american citizens feel the same huh.

I think Freedom was right about some of these posters who claim to be "democrats" and claim "they won't vote for them".

You guys are Liars and Trolls.

Don't waste your precious vote on a third party, my fellow dismayed patriots-- the Party's just getting started here!

***

I agree - our best chance is to stay and fight. Make the party into what we think it should be. That means a party that truly believes in a living wage, single payer universal health care and enforcing labor laws of all types - prevailing wages, temporary work visas, mine safety and other safety laws.

Sadly, part of the party is under the control of the corporatists - that is why we feel angry and betrayed. But, most of the party is not.

I am still encouraged that the largest growing caucus on Capital Hill is the progressive caucus. They understand labor arbitrage. People such as Dennis Kucinich know that the American worker is getting trashed. He fights back. That is the sort of people we need to support.

The DINO's (Democrats in name only), they know who they are, must go!

Living wage is a seperate matter. When more people, (that's right, people) can work legally, then they have the right to collective bargaining, but again, that's another matter. What are these jobs that undocumented workers are taking? Do you seriously think an older, better educated worker aspires to perform these tasks? Of course not. In my area, roughly one third of the production jobs are held by undocumented workers. I have sat in these plants, negotiating with the bosses, and time and again I am told that without these workers, they could not maintain current production levels, much less expand. If they cannot find a large enough labor pool here, AT THE PRICE THEY ARE WILLING TO PAY, they will simply move their company outside the United States. Like it or not, globalization of the economy has arrived. So, would you rather see the other 2/3 native workers laid off? BTW, everyone at this company starts off at 8.50 an hour. Sucky wage, to be sure, but that's another issue. Get your entire workforce on a level playing field, then unionize and everyone wins. That is, of course, until the company decides to re-locate. Either way, you roll the dice with respect to the future, at least this way, we give more working families some hope. And I don't give a rats ass where someone was born. You want to give veterans a leg up in the job market? Cool, they earned it. Most Americans, however, are Americans by accident of birth. What makes them more special?

To answer your "Guest Worker" question, only if creates a path to citizenship. Otherwise, you subject these people to all manner of exploitation. Again.

When the Business Roundtable, the Chamber of Commerce, CNBC Larry Kudlow and Pres George Bush are in agreement with Harry Reid on legislation....chances are most Americans better bend over and grasp their ankles and get ready to be taken.

This is all about a back room deal that benefits the elitists but hurts us Americans in the middle and lower class, similar to most deals from Congress.

Harry Reid is part of the elite class just as George Bush is...just a different party for the time being.

It appears as though what our Senators are doing is assisting businesses who wish to keep profits high and expenses low in acquiring cheap labor on a routine basis. If those who illegally entered or remained in our country and those individuals who aided and abeded them are forgiven by this government, for the second time in 20 years, then the rich American has won and will be rewarded with the means by which to keep his fellow Americans dirt poor in comparison. Access to foreign workers in the excessive numbers proposed guarentees that working Americans will continue their struggle for survival while the few standing on the heads of the many grow fat off the hog. This my friends is not good for the majority of Americans, no matter how you slice it.

Someone once told me that History repeats itself, well, it is.
Several hundred years ago, there were jobs that U. S. citizens "didn't wnat to do" (for the low pay), so the rich people solved this problem by sending ships to Africa to get workers who would do these jobs. -- Sound familure?
The only difference now is that the rich are getting these workers from Mexico instead of Africa and instead of purching these workers, these workers have to pay to get here and the rich pays them alittle money.
However, the rich is still charging us the normal price for the hamburger, but they are paying these workers half of what a U.S. citizen would normally get.
The rich are too lazy to mow their own lawns or take care of their babies. Of course the rich Domecrats wants to keep their low wage worker. If they went back to Mexico, who would take care of their brats and who would mow their lawns?
We are dependent on other countries for our energy. Are we going to become dependent on other countries to do our work such as laundry, cooking, construction ...?

I am a life long Democrat for 50 years. I have never felt so violated by my party taking the side of foreign citizens at the expense of the American working people. Have the leaders in my party lost touch with the pulse of America? I have talked with over a thousand of my union brothers & sisters about this betrayel & 99% say they will vote against any politician that votes yes on ANY amnesty bill!! Bush & the GOP were in severe danger of defeat in the upcoming elections. All we had to do is back the workers of America but you elected to pander to citizens of foreign countries that can't even vote. What A shame!! You deserve exactly what you get in November. Hillary has blown any chance she had in 08. What have you idiots done to my party?

I am also a lifelong Democrat of 30 years, not a troll here as some would suggest. I resigned in disgust from the DNC a few weeks back and signed in tonight just to post this message.

The Senate Democrats have betrayed millions upon millions of good decent hard working Americans like me, who are supposed to be the core of this party. I don't agree with Republicans on 90% of the issues, but I feel strongly enough about THIS ONE for it to count in a big way.

I have written ad nauseum to my Senators over the past few weeks without as much as the usual canned response. The pandering to millions of people who care nothing for this country while spitting in the faces of those who do is astounding to me.

Unless members of the house step up to the plate my beloved Dems can expect losses of epic proportions come November. And for the first time in 30 years, I'll be among the millions to vote on the issue that most affects the quality of my life and the future of my child.

And this party will have only to look around at the millions of their new 'supporters' to realize what went wrong.

Stop pandering to people that don't belong here at the expense of those of us who do.

To the idiot that is writing : waa waa waa all the cry babies on here are Repugs in disguise;
I can guarantee that millions of hard working American Democrat voters are pissed off at our leadership and you may be the one crying in November. This issue is hotter than abortion, gay rights, gun control, religious rights & others all put together. The American people will stand up & be counted when they realize the unimaginable economic cost to each one of us that this Amnesty bill will put on us.

Hey Sanberdo, I have to correct you. If you are 59 years old, you couldn't have voted for John F. Kennedy. I'm 63, and the only way I could have voted for JFK was if he was alive to run a second time. Remember, you had to be 21 to vote back then. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Friday, May 26, 2006

To: All my Democratic Friends who want to Win Back ALL of Congress this year! I mostly mean the new and old Democratic candidates for Congress.

From: A former Republican who started hating bush right of the batt, and has done nothing but watch bush, his regime, and his Bobble Heads in Congress screw up everything they have touched. Please note; I only gave capital letters to those I respect and deserve capital letters, so do not label me an English dropout, even though you would be right. Please excuse any and all grammar errors and misspelled words.

Dear Candidate,

I have sent many of you emails and letters, in hope of getting you to run campaigns which would assure the take over of Congress by us Democrats. Any American who did not like, or even hated President Clinton for lying about a privet sexual matter while he was President of the United States, should out right hate, and be willing to demand that bush step down. I think bush is by FAR, thee worse President in the history of our Great Country. I personally do not want him impeached, I want him and his regime investigated, charged criminally, and executed for Treason to our Country. They, bush, cheney, and the rest of his regime have done enough harm to earn such a harsh penalty. They have actually done more than enough to earn it. I hope you can see I am on your side, and will not waiver from this devotion. However, we, us Democrats, are dealing with some very intelligent people.

I am not sure why people call karl rove bush’s brain. Maybe because he was key to getting a dumb ass elected President of the United States of America. Someone so stupid, (bush) he could not find his ass with both hands. Yes, I acknowledge karl is a very smart man. However, I feel stronger that cheney is more likely bush’s brain. I have a VCR tape of 9-11, or a day or two after, that shows an interview with bush onboard Air Force One. When he was asked what made him thee most angry that day, bush answered it was not being able to continually talk to cheney while he was in the air, and cheney was underground in a bunker. He was saying he had lots of dropped calls, like the rest of us. :) However, this shocked me, I almost fell out of my chair, but I didn’t. I actually jumped up and screamed at the TV I was so angry. We were under attack, and thee thing that made him the most angry on that whole day, was dropped calls aboard Air Force One? Why in hell did he need to continually talk to cheney, unless maybe, he was way to dam stupid to know what to do? He was NOT on the phone with karl rove, or any other political hack. My Mother, who was sitting beside me when she heard this said, “You Think”, talking about bush being stupid.

I know the court appointed bush president, he did not win the election in 2000, he stole it. In fact, 2000 was thee first time I ever voted for a Democrat. I am sorry to say I did not vote in 2004. Number one, I thought people would not be stupid enough to elect bush fair and squar for a second term. Number two, I really did not like either candidate, and we, my whole family, did not want to have to vote for the best of two sorry ass candidates. We made a huge mistake, as we would later learn. We would later learn just how big of a mistake we had made in 2004. I hope you understand, two bad candidates, who do you vote for??? A second look at Senator Kerry was not that bad, but at the time he sounded to much like bush. He did not seem apposed to bush, I think for fear of being labeled unpatriotic.

A lot of things have come out about how we got into this illegal, unjust, unprovoked, and unneeded WAR. When will America learn we can not, and should not force people to change at the point of a gun? The only people in Iraq that want us to stay, are people who are in one way or another, making money from the United States being in their country. These people want us there as long as we keep paying them, feeding them, giving them free medical care, or in some other way they have a stake in us staying in country, like the current politicians? Wake up America, lets bring our boys home! No one else has to die because mr. bush wanted to kill saddam because he thinks saddam tried to have HIS father killed. No one else has to die because mr. cheney wanted halliburton stock to go through the roof. No one should have ever died so halliburton could make money. Not a little money, not even a LOT of money, we are now talking about this WAR costing a TRILLION DOLLARS! It has already cost over half a TRILLION Dollars, and the cost is going up every day, both in the cost in dollars, and in lives!

The above, is a subject that gets my heart pumping faster than anything I know of, so let me get onto what I wanted to say in this letter. Keep in mind I am now a devoted Democrat for life. I hate the republican party for not standing up to a president who is out of control and gets worse everyday. I would love to say, “no matter what you do”, to Democrats I mean, I will always vote for you. This is why I warned every Democrat I could reach about the immigration Crisis. Make no mistake, there is no question about it, I am not an alarmist, this is a Crisis of Immense Portions! As Democrats we need to face this issue in one way, and only ONE way for the time being, Security First! STOP THE BLEEDING!!! I know most Democrats seem to be where the president is, but for a different reason, but we are being fooled. The president and his corporate masters only want the cheep labor, they want it with no cost to them, or I should say at the lowest price to them as possible.

I really do not know Senator Chris Dodd of Connecticut, but I would be willing to bet a million dollars (if I had it) that his career is shot to hell and is over as of this day. That is, if all of what the talking heads on TV are saying about his last minute amendment to the immigration bill are true. As I understand it, Senator Dodd wants the sovereign Nation of the United States of America, to HAVE to (A MUST) coordinate with the Mexican Government before we could build a fence along our southern border. The amendment says we (the USA) MUST consult, and coordinate with the Government of Mexico before we enforce our borders laws. This is insane, do you have any idea how bad this looks and sounds to us Americans, any clue whatsoever? Well, it sounds exactly like what I have been telling every Democratic politician I could reach by email for a long time, at least a month or more.

I have told you if you do not say, I DEMAND, “Security First”, and that president bush MUST demonstrate he is willing and capable of enforcing current border laws, because he has not done so for the last six years, you will lose the upcoming election and any chance you will ever have in politics. All because it sounds like you are standing up for illegal aliens rights, before you are standing up for the everyday Americas lives. You know, the people who vote, and the ones who sent you to Washington DC in the first place. We are the least vocal, least likely to demonstrate, least likely to call you. We will speak with a very loud voice this November, and if we want to win, and win big, bigger than anyone would have thought, we must stand up for Security First. This will pull in all those voters who are regular republicans, but do not like bush. They recognize bush is not a true conservative, he is a war monger who is trashing our country by running up a debt that most people can not imagine, or comprehend.

Bush will sell out America for the benefit of a few. He does not seem to have a problem sending jobs over seas, like trading nuclear technology for mangos, NO, I am not kidding. Like importing unskilled, uneducated illegal aliens, who will work for less than minimum wage, he imports them by NOT enforcing the current border laws, nor will he enforce visa laws. Yes, that’s right, he has not been enforcing our visa laws even though that is how most of the 19 hijackers got into our country. The bush regime seems to love the visa’s for highly educated people, because they will generally work for $15,000.00 dollars less a year than what the same educated American would be paid.

In short the bush regime LOVES big business, the larger the more they LOVE it! The regime loves them so much, he gives them tax breaks when they do not ask for them, need them, or even want them. A lot of tax payers, even those who make big money would be willing to pay more in taxes to try and help bring down the largest deficit in our history. They also want to help in the war effort, to pay for equipment for our brave troops who are being asked to fight in a WAR where you can not tell friend from foe. The troops have been doing the best they can with what they have been given, and should be applauded for it. Because they have had, thee worse leadership in our history, and it starts from the very top and goes down.

At times I am ashamed to be an American, but that is not something I can wash off. I am an American, always have been , always will be. I am doing everything I know how to make America something to once again be proud of. I am proud of 99.9% of our armed service members. As I said, they do the best they can with what they are given. They are our Nations best, they deserve the best from us, the American people. They do not deserve an American president who treats his commander-in-chief roll as if he was some Hollywood tough guy and is never wrong. A leader who constantly refuses to admit when he is wrong, and to then change direction, is a leader who is always doomed to failure. This would also make them an extremely stupid leader.

After reading quite a few notes on our website blog, I must say, I think we are in the majority. The Senate bill, S2611 should die! Let us pray that it does, but to make sure I ask that you copy this, or write your own note to your State’s Democratic candidates. It could help save us. We need to let the Senators know they are being played by rove and cheney, this is another wedge issue. Remember bush does not have to run anymore, and he will do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to make sure we do not win back either house of Congress. Why would they do it, to make dam sure they will not be investigated. They fear the investigation power of either house of Congress more than anything else they can think of. They seem to be making Democrats look like they care more for illegal mexicans than the Americans that sent them to Washington in the first place. You must ask yourself this, are you/we ready to lose all chances of winning control of Congress over this Issue, this ONE Issue, or should we be smart and stand and promote the only safe thing both sides agree on, SECURITY FIRST. I am not saying we can not come back later and address the issue of 12 to 15 million illegal aliens already in our country. I feel that we need to stand for Security First, not just because that is the ONE THING we all agree on, but we can also beat bush, and his bobble heads over the head with the whole problem of illegal aliens When they bring up the, “But Clinton” argument, we need to once again remind them he is no longer President, and President Clinton never started talking about an amnesty that has made millions come in a mad rush to get in before we cut it off. Why haven’t they secured our ports and borders five long years after 9-11? Why was the priority placed on attacking Iraq, a country that apparently was No immediate threat to us but we were falsely lead to believe it was. Why wasn’t the priority on catching bin-laden in Afghanistan, sealing our borders, ports and going after people who have violated their visas? Why is bush and gonzales more concerned with investigating reporters, than charging known employers of illegal aliens? Bush has been using the power of his office for intimidation and personal political gain. How about going after known human traffic smugglers with criminal charges? How about going after known employers of illegal aliens, or people who forge documents for the illegal’s? Almost every fake document I have ever seen is so fake, even an untrained cop like me could tell the difference.

The forgers charge them hundreds of dollars for these fakes and they are worthless for the most part. Unless of course you have an employer who just does not care. I worked my whole career in Phoenix, Arizona, so I have seen a lot of fake papers. I do know for a fact the illegal aliens are litterly killing people, unintended, due to the MASSIVE Burden they are placing on the local schools, and local community hospitals. Due to the fact the schools are over loaded with Spanish only speaking kids, and not enough teachers to go around, kids fall threw bush’s no child left behind gimmick. The older kids just quit, after that it only takes a few months and they are in a gang and are out running the streets getting killed, and killing others. It is truly a horrible sight to see. The bleeding at the border must stop, if it doesn’t the ones who have been born here will never have the chance to catch up. Our social services will never have a chance to catch up. All this talk of amnesty, anything that will make law breakers legal ahead of others who have waited legally will do nothing but fuel a surge for more and more aliens to come here. All this talk will fuel more coming here than can be stopped by nonviolent means. And please, come on, Mexico is not our partner in anything, they are sucking Billions of dollars out of our economy and will do nothing but encourage this type of behavior and we know it.

Once again I ask you to write your States Democratic leaders, and Candidates. Tell them the Bleeding at the border MUST STOP First. After that, we can take our time to figure out what to do with the illegal aliens we already have. I have also told our leaders before no bill, is much better than a BAD BILL, Why? Because it can make our problems much worse. We can see everyday in Iraq what can happen when you do not know what you are doing. We see the unintended consequences of just going ahead with something because it sounds, or looks good on paper. Tell our leaders to Stop this bill!!! Senate bill, S2611 needs to burn, just like most all of bush’s ideas, They SUCK!!!!!

PS: I am Sorry if you do not agree with me. I assure you, no one, NO ONE wants to see Democrats win back both houses of Congress more than me. For the future of our kids, we need to know what bush, cheney, rumsfeld, rice, and others knew about Iraq and when they knew it. I am a firm believer in the very wise saying of, if you do not know your past, you are doomed to repeat it. There are many many times in history where this saying has been proven to be true. We do not want our kids to repeat any of bush’s mistakes, any of them and they are many. So please, stand up for your kids, stand up for the truth, lets take our Party back and beat these bunch of bobble heads in Congress. Anyone wanting to debate, again go to my web address Dwolfaz@netzero.com. As always, Thank You, for taking the time in reading such long drivel. I hope it has charged you up enough to act. I know in my 45 years there has not been a more important Congressional election. Please, Do your Duty as an American citizen and act! Do not sit silenced by the thought that you can not effect the out come of a politicians vote. I promise you, you can have profound effects........

I would hope the Dems are reading this blog, but just in case, I think we need to call them and point out how mad we all are

Domocratic Party Main Phone Number:

202-863-8000
(For questions about contributions, please call 877-336-7200)

I assume everyone knows who their representatives are--but just in case--you can go to www.congress.org, put in your zip code, and it will give you their names and phone numbers.

We really need to raise hell. I personally think all the Senators think when they make 12 million illegals citizens, they will have 12 million more voters to vote for them in addition to the companies who employ them supporting their campaigns. We need to do what ever we can to stop this or we'll really be in a downward spiral.

This is not a race issue. IF we had China or Ireland south over our boarder, trying to come in and work for minimum wage or less, we would have the same problem.

I know people who lost their IT jobs because they were outsourced to India and Canada who wound up working in the physical labor market. One who used to work at Novel now has a part time teaching job he supplements by cleaning offices. Another now works loading trucks for Albertsons after losing his tech support job to India.

Listen to NPR’s College No Guarantee of Top-Dollar Payhttp://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5424665

Dems can’t claim they represent the poor down trodden people of America, when they are supporting illegal immigrants which drives our wages down.

I'm getting so sick of hearing these are jobs no one else wants.

My father only made $5 an hour or less 35 years ago in construction, but the house he bought for his family only cost $16,000, gas was $0.18 a gallon, and you could by a weeks groceries for $20. Now days the same house is at least $150,000.00, gas is over $3 a gallon, and my husband and I have to spend $100 or more per week to get the same groceries. That’s an increase of over 900% for the cost of buying a house, 500% for the cost of food, and 1600% for the cost of gas. Thanks to illegal immigration and employers being able to get away with not paying living wages, the same job starts out at around $6 to $10 per hour now--an increase of 20% to 100%. Wages are not keeping up with inflation—worker rights and benefits are eroding.

These are not jobs Americans don’t want, they’re jobs Americans can’t support their families on anymore.

They are taking from the poor and making the rich richer. I have heard claims that employers don't have the money to pay us living wages, but I’m sure that’s what they told workers who worked 12 hours a day during the Industrial Revolution.

If they want to help Mexicans and be compassionate, why not donate money to UNICEF http://www.unicef.org/infobycountry/mexico_19107.html, or donate money to help a poor child in Mexico or any other country in the world by going to http://www.worldvision.org/worldvision/master.nsf/.

The rich should give to the poor. Instead Dems and Republicans are taking from the poor and giving to people who are even poorer, so we can all be really poor.

I forgot to mention www.congress.org will let you know how your representatives are voting. You can sign up for email notification to let you know how they are voting and what issues they will be voting on in the near future.

If you folks are really fed up stop buying goods made in Mexico and China. True you will have to do without somethings but if enough people do this we can make an inpact on big business.
I think Bush had to have this reform bill so he could hand Vicente Fox a political plum to help him get re-elected in July 2006. I'm sure the businesses that moved to Mexico will benifit from yhis favor also.
Hell, let's just make Mexico our 51st state then there will be no border to defend or illegal immigrants!!

If you are REALLY fed up then vote against your incumbent. I don't care if he or she is R or D, just get rid of the people in the Senate who clearly don't give a damn about what we think. I used to be an R, but am now Independent. Frist, Kennedy, it doesn't matter. Both are willing to sell our country for the chance at a new voter base. This is the sickest thing I have seen.

Stop saying that this is a Republican or Bush issue. It is their fault, but it is also the Democrats' fault. Where is the sticking up for labor? Where is the respect for the law? Reagan screwed it up when he gave amnesty and it is about to happen again.

This is NOT a Republican vs Democratic issue. This is an issue of our elected Senators completely ignoring us. Vote yours out. I'm voting against Hutchison and Cornyn. They may have been against the current bill, but if they are so inept as to not be able to defeat this bill, then they are useless. No incumbents. Look how they treat us. If you vote for your Senator again, then you have no right complain on this or any other forum. Stop complaining and DO something about it.

I don't care if the Dems or the Republicans own the Senate. I really don't. I just want some new blood in there, and Frist, Byrd, Kennedy, and Specter are NOT new blood. Get rid of them and start fresh.

I honestly don't believe it. These people are here ANYWAY! We have an underpaid, uneducated, permanantly unAmerican segment of society in these illegal aliens, and the measures of the bill actually did something to stop all that. These claims that it will be a significant drain on the economy? Come on. These 16 million people will actually be PAYING TAXES. That's silly. Who's trying to raise the minimum wage? Democrats. Who's trying to pass the Earned Income Tax Credit? Democrats. Who's been on the side of labor, passing every labor standard, fair employment standard, equal opportunity standard, etc? Democrats. Don't come in here and tell me that, just because these mexicans are getting a path to citizenship, Democrats are anti-worker. You have to make tough decisions, and this surely was one, but the overall price of NOT providing for both ends - security AND pathway to citizenship - is far worse than the alternative. You know what's anti-worker? Allowing a foreman to hire illegals and pay them $3 an hour. That's a job that an American laborer didn't get, because an American laborer won't work for $3 an hour. We're bringing these people out of the shadows, providing them protections, which in turn protects YOU from losing a job to impossible competition. If the foreman has to pay everyone 6.15 an hour (hopefully soon), there will be no preferance against the American.

They've gotta pay back taxes, learn English, follow the steps. That's GOOD. More money, more respect for our culture. More Americans in America, rather than foreigners who don't know our language.

I agree with above - over 60% of Americans favor a guest worker program - I'm not saying that all negativity in here is fake, but my god, this "I voted for John F. Kennedy and now I'm switching parties" crap is crazy. At least SOME of that 60% must visit this blog every once in a while, right?

Wow,

Looks like I really got under some folks "skin" with my argument.All these accusations hurling around are actually, quite funny.I STILL think many of you are liars and just as you have a right to say what you will,I have a right to think you're a bunch of lying racists trolls.It's a free nation,so far still,and I can feel however I want to about anyone elses argument just as some of you do.Now,I believe, a lot of you are little lying Republican Trolls who can't post on the RNC website because of the way it's set up and you can't get a dailog, so you come here posting some "I'm a life long Dem" and "I'm done with the Democrats." bull sh*t.Everyone knows just how easy it is to post one user name,change it,and post another username.Hell,some of ya'll sounded like you were talking to yourselves."Oh yes I agree with you 100 % whole heartedly. Oh, yes, your're right on target with that argument. I agree" LOL. You fake ass folks or "one person" are/is funny indeed.I did noticed,however,NOONE had jack smack to say about their Polygamist Mormon Friend Warren Jeffes and those MILLIONS of women who are using up the welfare system taking BILLIONS from taxpayers for many years for all those nasty INCEST babies they keep having.I noticed noone talked about the strain this ILLEGAL behavior is having on Americans.After all, the Morman Cult is the largest and fastest growing in this Gawd Forsaken nation with millions opon millions of nasty freaks in their cults having children and going on welfare becasue the pervert father can legally,only have only one wife "on paper",so,his other nasty ass nine or ten sick freak wives get to suck the welfare system dry with their 15 to 20 nasty incest kids. Naw,let's blame the Mexicans!!!!!!!!instead.Right?

Thou Hypocrites,

:D

P.S. Welcome, to the Democratic Party all the young new Americans, don't mind the grumpy old dixicrats, they were just leaving.............

Ha Ha Ha Ha !

The Immigration debate has opened up a potentially huge opportunity for Dems, as well as a potential liability, depending on how we manage the strategy.

Republicans have jumped on this issue to leverage the fear they have instilled in many Americans via their campaign against terrorism. Through this leverage, they have managed to create an issue that they will try to manipulate to obscure the failures in Iraq, high energy prices, the lowering if the standard of living for middle-class Americans, etc. If Dems don't demonstrate a command of the issue and show leadership and viable solutions, the GOP will trumpet this issue to drive them back to control Congress this fall.

First, most of us recognize that this issue can provide a huge wedge between moderate and far-right Republicans. The far-right, sensing Bush's weakness, are staking their position to cater to their far-right electorate, who they know come out to the polls in higher percentages than the average voter. What we must do is to cast their stand on this issues as an attempt by the far-right, a vocal minority to consolidate their power and dominate the American political scene, much like the GOP was able to demonize liberals in the 90's. Since the issue of Immigration has gained high visibility, there have been a quiet backlash against Hispanics and other non-white people. While overt racism has not become ubiquitous, the subtle patterns of intolerance have increased, and is a direct result of the soft-peddled hate-mongering from the far-right. Dems must raise the visibility of the occurrences of these racially motivated crimes and insults to highlight the negative effects of the far-right fear campaign, and to underscore our committment to the dignity of all human beings. We can use the President's own position and the position of moderate GOP leaders to drive a wedge into the GOP and isolate the far-right Republicans.

Second, any rational person knows that the impact of the far-right's border security and illegal employment enforcement would be a huge disruption to the economic fabric of the US. It is this irony that underscores the lunacy of the far-right Republicans. The opportunity for Dems is that we have the ability to drive a wedge between the far-right and small/medium business owners, who have traditionally been GOP supporters. By showing how the far-right solution (exemplified by the House bill) would decimate some small/medium businesses, and drive up wages, Dems can show that the far-right have lost their ability to offer rational solutions, and are, indeed, fringe elements that offer no more than demagoguery and diatribes. This will work to pull the support of business owners away from this far-right element of Congress.

The opportunity is there - now we must take advantage of it.

The opportunity is there - now we must take advantage of it.

Posted by WesternSage on May 28, 2006 at 01:11 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Agreed! That's why,I think, we should jump all over this whole Warren Jeffs Polygamist Morman Racist Cult Leader who's running things in "RED" states.He's got millions of so called "Christian Conservatives" who practice that ILLEGAL lifestyle and who's second to tenth wives are defrauding the system.They are collecting BILLIONS all accross the RED states of Welfare and WIC.and Food Stamps and taking it back to their cult leader Warren Jeffs.There are Compounds and temples ALL over the RED states.We need to "shine the light" on these fake "Christian Conservatives" and link them directly with the Right Wing of the Republican Party.They teach the same things about Abortion,Homosexuality and Darker Skinned Americans.We have to point out the Conservative Right Wing of the Republican Party and the Polygamist Morman Cult are in fact,one and the same.

;)

They did it to us.It's Payback time.

OPEN LETTER TO PAT BUCHANAN

Dear Mr. Buchanan,

I shall not be renewing my subscription to your
AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE rag because I can no longer
admire your standing up to the neocons. They at least
are loyal to something. Unfortunately, you are as much
of a con as the neocons. Goldwater said: better right
than win. But you are a total phony. On the
Scarborough Country MSNBC program-- it may be
Scarborough's country but not the America I defended
and supported-- you said that "we" are going to set
the laws and choose who comes into our country, not
illegals breaking our laws. Who is "we," the Irish
potato famine" refugees who came here and raised hell
for a century?

You speak of law and order and no amnesty. But what
about the Amnesty that your "America" has requested
from the Japanese Americans and the Black Americans
who suffered racial and criminal abuse at the hands of
people like you-- should they grant your likes
amnesty?

We were both with Nixon and we were both there when
Conservatism started as a movement in the 1960s. So no
one can fool anyone. Forgiveness is what REAL
Christians do as it is what REAL Americans do-- as so
many Black and Japanese Americans forgave the likes of
you. People pay for their crimes and sins. But as an
old man you continue to be a fraud trying to cash in
on your own polemical larceny now as ever. I say that
because in all your blah-blah in support of the
Congress-passed Bill that makes it a felony for an
illegal alien to work in the US and for an American to
hire one, you never once mentioned that the felony of
hiring an illegal alien does not go into effect for
SIX MORE YEARS. That's in order to give time for the
grubby business men who hire illegals to avoid the
same catastrophic fate that befalls an illegal worker
caught working in your kind of America.

In the end you are more of a scumbag than the neocons
and a cheap old political whore, condemning Bush for
recklessly causing the deaths of American heroes in
Iraq but the supporting his re-election so he can
continue causing the death of young American heroes in
Iraq. Phonies like you need to be cut loose and
amputated from the Conservative movement, amputated
like an infected limb, before it can recover from its
own fundamental moral corruption.

Keep your rag, American Conservative, for you are
neither a REAL American (having evaded war service)
nor a real Conservative (having hidden from view a
Congressional Bill you peddle that makes it a
felonious crime to work but not to hire such felonious
criminals. That does not make you a
"Paleoconservative" just a crud!

Daniel E. Teodoru

To the ignorant little child who keeps calling her elder brothers and sisters "dixiecrats":

You're absolutely right about the Mormon conservative culture causing a drain on social resources... your argument would be germaine to this thread if you could focus on how Mormon converts from Mexico are a huge part of Utah's illegal workforce. LDS is all over Mexico like flies on rice, since every new archaeological discovery there only makes Joseph Smith's long con that much more manifest.

However, just because someone disagrees with you, it doesn't make them racist because you happen to be black. Israel has become the third rail of American foreign policy for similar reasons. Anyone who criticizes Israel in this country is excoriated as an anti-semite, even if they themselves are Semitic. Ray Nagan has come up with some of the most racist crap I've heard in awhile, including against illegals. Despite the fact that he doesn't think of whites as constituents, white people of conscience have helped to re-install him in office...like white people of conscience helped make achievements in civil rights possible in the 60's...like white people of conscience ended the institution of slavery in this country, in our bloodiest war.

You are not alone. Stop alienating yourself and acting like a victim, and have some respect.

ACTION POLL: Register your views in this poll by writing to your leaders.

Senate Immigration Compromise: The Senate approved 62-36 an immigration bill with a mix of enforcement and a path to citizenship. Should the House compromise with this bill or take the chance on passing no bill at all? Tell Congress: Updated Results: 20,015 messages thus far.
13% now say - Senate Compromise is Better Than None
87% now say - No Compromise. Better to Have No Bill This Year

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/

The majority of people of this country want the border secured and our laws enforced. This was born out by the previous polls on Congress.org. which had similar numbers. The Senate, following Bush, thinks we can't secure the border unless they surrender our jobs. Since when? After the Senate did Reid's "good hard work" piece of garbage the majority of citizens now feel it too dangerous to even allow this government to pass any legislation. I guess Americans differ from The Democratic Party leaders and a portion of the Republican Party in that they are willing to forego security and die, rather than surrender their country to alien invaders. What a shame that citizens have to risk their lives so that our troops can come home to something that still resembles the land they left.

Dear ignorant child:

I live in Florida. We've got nothing but boll weevils. Nobody is denying the persistence of racism in the Democratic Party. My problem is that you are calling out people on this blog, labelling them with stereotypes, simply because they presume to disagree with your tautology, i.e., anyone who opposes open borders is a racist.
I call you ignorant because the sole criterion for your assertion has been to disclose your ethnicity. Poor paranoid child, we wish to esteem you, but you lash out at friends. Has it occurred to you that the people you disparage have, collectively, forgotten more about politics than you'll ever know, if you remain so dogmatic?