Kicking Ass: The Democratic Party's Blog

Online Privacy in Jeopardy

Posted by on June 2, 2006 at 06:06 PM

Why does the DOJ want my online records? Today's LA Times investigates the Bush Administration's ploy to require online service providers to keep a record of every customer's online activity for two years. What is the justification for violating our right to privacy this time? Thwarting terrorists and child pornography distributors.

Big Internet and telephone companies are girding to fight an unprecedented call by the Bush administration for them to keep detailed records of customers' online activities for two years.

The request by Atty. Gen. Alberto R. Gonzales and FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III would dramatically expand the government's ability to track what people do online and with whom they communicate.

I'm glad to see the Department of Justice trying to apprehend child pornography distributors. In fact, I whole-heartedly support that - but like the domestic wiretaps - these things can go too far - invading and infringing upon the privacy of innocent Americans.

"This is not simply limited to kiddie porn or terrorism. It's a real break with precedent," said Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the nonprofit Electronic Privacy Information Center. "Data retention is open-ended. The government is saying, 'Keep everything about everyone and we'll sort it out later.'"

The Bush Administration seems intent on making it unpatriotic to question these tactics.

It used to be you could be called a terrorist for questioning the war. Then it was that you could be called a terrorist for questioning the government's collection of phone records. Now it seems they are hoping only pedophiles and child pornography peddlers would question why the government would need to spy on our online activities.

I'm neither a terrorist nor child pornographer, but I have to wonder why the government needs to know about my AMERICAblog and BruinsNation habit.

Comments (38) «

No suprise here, the name is BUSH and I want to take over the world.

1
dk2 on June 2, 2006 at 06:41 PM

I'm neither a terrorist nor child pornographer, but I have to wonder why the government needs to know about my AMERICAblog and BruinsNation habit.

But you are NOT in lock step with the current president of the US, and for that you MUST surrender your privacy.

They ville make you!!

2
PeppermintLizzy on June 2, 2006 at 06:57 PM

King George has declared war on the American people!

3
pee-wee on June 2, 2006 at 07:11 PM

Next week, House members will be voting on a larger law governing our nation's communication policy—and the current version of this bill guts Net Neutrality. So every representative needs to hear in no uncertain terms that either this horrible bill gets changed on the House floor to protect Internet freedom, or it should be voted against.

Please call your representative at this number and ask them to vote no on the COPE telecom law if it doesn't protect Net Neutrality."

Urge your representative to support the bipartisan Sensenbrenner-Conyers Net Neutrality amendment (HR 5417) which passed the House Judiciary Committee last week with a powerful 20-13 biparttisan majority. And if that fails, they should vote against the entire bill.

And you need to encourage all friends and family members to do the same! Stop the madness, stop this administration from gutting our constitution!

4
momoaizo on June 2, 2006 at 07:22 PM

Yet another inept attempt to fight terrorism with some "magic bureaucratic" computer trick
Bush thinks you can stop terrorism by burying your head in the sand. He's inept at world diplomacy
This administration cannot be trusted with the personal data of all Americans. They have shown time after time, that they are willing to exploit this information for political purposes
How can an administration that divulges top-secret information for political gain be trusted with the personal data of people who disagree with it?
By focusing on taking away the freedoms that make us Americans, the Bush administration shows its utter weakness in the face of modern events - they would rather hide in the past than face the realties of the modern world
They think by repressing freedoms the terrorists will just magically go away. They're to blind to see that they are playing right into the terrorists' hands

5
DTree on June 2, 2006 at 07:53 PM

He is an enemy to anyone who wishes to uphold the constitution, if he keeps on throwing away our rights, we wont have any freedoms to protect. There is a reason warrants are issued, our founding fathers knew this when they set up the constitution. I guess he doesn't see that it as an unreasonable search since it is "new" technology. Wow, he is stupid, and so are his billionaire friends that support him.

6
KentuckyBlue on June 2, 2006 at 09:07 PM

bush has been trying to convert the american way as a fascist militarized war zone.

he is intent on trying to destroy all rights for American citizens.

the American people have to decide...

...do we want change

...or do we want the republicans to continue to decide the fate of America.

7
Benji on June 2, 2006 at 09:42 PM

Well put Benji! I ordered a bumper sticker...
WAR
Want A Republican

8
KentuckyBlue on June 2, 2006 at 10:30 PM

I was a Democratic Party activist for decades until I finally quit in disgust this year. Despite all the talk, when it comes to action, the D and R parties are EXACTLY ALIKE except on: (a) fertilized eggs and (b) gay marriage. And I have just stopped caring about those. Give both of those to states and individual conscience and keep the feds out of it. I'd like to throw out practically every elected leader at the national level and start some new parties. A party that would unite us would bring what most people in the middle want. Stop using fringe issues as a money and power lever and trying to impose one extreme point of view uniformly across the nation. Cut way back on the federal government and restore the Constitutional role of Congress, insisting that only Congress can declare war. Get parties with a better platform than, "we hate the other party but we all vote the same."

9
Gareth on June 3, 2006 at 04:33 AM

Posted by Gareth on June 3, 2006 at 04:33 AM

Sure worth thinking about.

10
dumpw on June 3, 2006 at 07:39 AM

With Bush's privacy it leaves you naked with a hard on to the Constitution's gaurantee of due process. Impeach or censure the Attorney General and the FBI director Congress. Congress you impedent weaklings, defend us from the abuse. Otherwisw we will have lawyers supoena your stored email records, cell phone calls, your car's satelite tracking and other data from the FBI for lobbying your filth to US.

Abortion, child pornography, marriage what won't the White House do in its WMD of the Constitution. Hell it even wants to monitor the religious, political, and press sites for all the world. It is scary to have the White House monitor its religion worldwide.

11
dlesterpoet on June 3, 2006 at 04:24 PM

The Bush Conspiracy to be the great Dictator to the information age. The control the world's free flow of free speech in its Republican form of Independence, Freedom, Democracy, and religious order. Hail the chief Rabbi, Pope, Mullah, and preacher, the great corporate leader of globilized America taking US into the dark ages "At Will".

Hell has no fury, like a President with absolute power with a puppet green-blooded legislature.

12
dlesterpoet on June 3, 2006 at 04:34 PM

Hell it is time for Congress to start impeachment proceedings against the Attornry General Alberto R. Gonzales and FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III.

13
dlesterpoet on June 3, 2006 at 04:51 PM

Gareth,I hear ya i agree what Terry McAuliffe and the DLC has done is a disgrace. If you get a chance go to 50 state strategy and then go to dlc.org because this is the sole group that's responsible that's caused us to go downward.

Don't give up Gareth we're starting to come back and we'll bring the change back to this country in a huge way.

14
ap215 on June 3, 2006 at 08:01 PM

Posted by Gareth on June 3, 2006 at 04:33 AM

If you felt that way, why were you a part of it for so long? Why didn't you stay in the game and fight to reform it?

I don't buy it, Gareth.

Don't tell me the Democrats are exactly like the Republicans. I am a Democrat.

I don't buy it, Gareth. Not any more than when a Republican says it.

15
SandyH on June 4, 2006 at 11:24 AM

Democrats believe in freedom and opportunity for all. No exclusions.

Democrats leave the door open. We make mistakes and we learn from them. We seek out our critics. We change our minds....all the time. We adapt. We rock the boat. We assimilate. We fix things. We are survivors.

Democrats hope we can leave this world with as much as we came into it with...maybe a little less if it helps others.

God isn't on our side. We test His patience. But we make Him laugh. And because of it, He'll probably let us live forever; and we'll still not be happy about it.

Democrats are all different. We don't have to fool anybody.

We're what's left of the American Dream...and the Confederacy. We don't want to change the world. We just want to preserve our civil liberties and keep the the dream alive for those that come after us.

What was the question again? Just fooling. Why aren't you a baseball dad? Into the World Cup instead of the World Series? Not an illegal alien are you?

16
SandyH on June 5, 2006 at 03:22 PM

Posted by Gareth on June 3, 2006 at 04:33 AM

You should start a new party.

If you don't believe in the Democrats and want to quit then you should.

A lot of bloggers here haven't given up on the Democratic Party and are willing to stay and fight for what's right regardless of who quits.

Maybe you and SoccerDad can start your own party and unite everyone around your solutions.

Many of the bloggers here accept our differences instead of complaining about them. We will stay and work towards a strong Democratic Party regardless and even if the Democratic Party loses the election we will not have any regrets because we tried and did not quit when the going got tough.

17
Benji on June 6, 2006 at 12:00 AM

The Bush Administration is spying on the Democrats. Just wait and see when the Democrats get in power and re-Classify all the Justice Department and the CIA's papers and the world will see that is the main thing the Republicans are doing.

18
freeforall on June 6, 2006 at 08:40 PM

freeforall,

You are correct. I am aware that the Corporate FASCIST Republicans are spying on Democrats and oppressing the internet. My family pays $10./month for Republican Internet Server AT&T/SBCGlobal.net who has never given a penny to any Democrat unless it was one of the Demopublicans like Hillary Clinton who is being supported by Ruport Murdoch, the Republican Media Mogul; and worked 10 years on the Board of Directors of Wal-Mart. Republican Internet Server MSN is doing exactly the same as AT&T/SBC Global and MSN has never given a penny to any Democrat either; and my family pays $29.95/month for use of the MSN Server making a total for the use of both Servers being $40. and these Republicans have the collosal gall to shut down our use of the internet and our free speech; but still collect their money. They say we have FREE SPEECH, but just as soon as you really start using your supposed FREE SPEECH, then you are oppressed and suppressed.

The closer we get to the election, the more MSN & AT&T check out everything one does, and have managed to keep the connection either slow & locking up or making it very difficult for either one of us to obtain a working password; and keep making it difficult over and over and over again, like closing our E-Mail and sending notes that say you have been closed out without any justification.

We both started blogging on MSN, but MSN has to protect the Republican cause and gave us such a hard time that we each opened up another account with AT&T/SBC Global and they have done the same thing. ThomasG has been shut down by the closing of his E-Mail and I may not be on this blog much longer either because of being sabotaged by the Republican Servers that we have no choice but to have as they are the only Servers in our area. We are using Mozilla Firefox Browser out of Japan and I have been able to stay on the site long enough to get my posts in, but without the Mozilla Firefox Browser, I would not be able to get anything entered on this blog.

My brother, ThomasG, has totally lost his Freedom of Speech on this supposed democratic blog because of the Corporate Republican FASCIST Servers. What is happening is more than security, it is actually Republican government oppression which is tyranny to keep the Political LEFT from being able to get their political act together and save democracy. But, by the power of GOD, in the name of Jesus, the Political LEFT will rise and put down this REPUBLICAN REVOLUTION against the 70% WORKING AND POOR CLASS who are the CONSTITUENT BASE of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

19
_MarthaA on June 7, 2006 at 02:20 AM


*********OPEN LETTER *********
to MSN Internet Service Provider and AT&T-SBC Yahoo Internet Service Provider

SUBJECT: Internet Freedom of Expression

FREEDOM is the absence of oppression, and OPPRESSION is to burden, subdue and force performance of actions in the interest of others by harsh and wrongful use of power and authority.

Those who Control the Servers and condone restriction of access, restrict FREEDOM on the Internet.

I am a blogger on the Internet, posting as ThomasG on my own blog ReformDemocraticParty.blogspot.com, democrats.org and other blogs. Both MSN and AT&T-SBC Yahoo have restricted my E-Mail address in an effort to deny me freedom to express political opinion and commentary as a Politically LEFT Blogger.

I am a Member of ACLU and I feel that my Civil Liberties are being improperly restricted by both MSN and AT&T/SBC Yahoo.

I respectfully ask that BOTH Internet Server Services, AT&T-SBC Yahoo and MSN, lift restrictions on my Internet access as a Blogger at Blogspot.com and on this democratic blog. Otherwise, as a Member of ACLU, I will ask that ACLU look into the activities of BOTH MSN and AT&T-SBC Yahoo with regard to restricting the FREEDOM of my political expression, restricting free speech on the Internet.

I will await restoration of my Internet access by both MSN and AT&T-SBC Yahoo before I take further action, perhaps there are technical reasons for restriction of my access of which I am unaware, and that are unintentional, as I do not desire to make unfounded accusations.

I, therefore, will await restoration of my access
to the internet for a sufficient and reasonable amount of time for the cause of my lack of access to be remedied and subsequent to that time, I will conclude that it is the intention of MSN and AT&T-SBC Yahoo to deny FREE SPEECH ACCESS to me on the Internet for Political reasons.

Thomas G. Miller

20
ThomasG_ on June 7, 2006 at 11:34 AM

Benji:
A lot of people are tlking about going to a third party. Most of the people I know who say they are quitting are going Libertarian.
I keep telling them that they need to work to fix the Democrats, or we'll get another Republican administration in 2008, but they aren't buying it.
Democrats have a lot of fences to mend before 2008.
Hopefully after this primary, the DNC will see the 900lb gorilla and clean up their act.

21
Butte on June 7, 2006 at 12:11 PM

I have uncovered a dark secret in the Evangelical Christian Faith. They call it a faith but it is really a fanatical organization that uses religion as an excuse to gain political power. The churches funnel money into a front organization headed by an individual here in WDC that funds persecutions of individuals their ministers consider evil. Evil is anyone that defies their power or insane whims. They are white Supremist Nazis. African Americans have to acknowledge the superiority of a white man to get any benefits from belonging to the church.

When a minister picks a target his followers threaten to file false police reports on the person and then send emails to the other people in the faith destroying the targets character. They then surround you and laugh behind your back in an effort to humiliate you and try to deny you employment opportunities. I had someone tell me once that they sent threats to a judge to incriminate them so their lives would be destroyed.

They even have the support of Evangelical Christian police personnel who abuse their authority to intimidate you. I have been having problems for years and I have only been able to fight them off since I moved from Arizona to WDC. It is not easy as their ministers funnel money to the Republican Party. However, I am still having problems as this gives them enormous power.

They also believe that it is good to lie to people outside the faith. This is how they recruit people. They lie, incriminate you, and confess their act to you. If you do not accept their apology then they persecute you until you yield.

I know it sounds insane but they also use childish code words to describe their functions when they persecute an individual in what they call "games". All Evangelical Christians know about these games. They have been going on for about 3 years in Republican territories in flyover country and they are making a push into WDC. They Think W is their "God". They prey on Independents in WDC but know one is safe in what they call the Red States. The States W won in the last election.

I was never politically active but I had the misfortune of being noticed by one of their ministers. I am a Roman Catholic and now a member of the Democratic party and the ACLU. However, I don’t believe anyone is safe from these insane people. Please be on your guard.

22
BJG on June 7, 2006 at 07:09 PM

BJG:

Jesus is GOD and is not partial to any church. GOD is not a respector of persons. It appears to me that you should get out of that church. One doesn't have to go to church to love GOD or for GOD to love you. We only go to church to be fed the Word of GOD and to give strength to weaker Christians. If one isn't being fed the WORD of GOD, then there is nothing wrong in finding another Church or just reading your Bible. One can not let people take the place of GOD. Wherever two or more or gathered together in the name of Jesus, Jesus is there. I do not think the Lord Jesus is at that church. Trust in the LORD and in all your ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your path. Know that when GOD is for you, noone can be against you and talk to GOD in the name of Jesus, tell GOD all about what they are doing and trust GOD. If you put your reliance on the Lord Jesus from your heart, He will not ever let you down. Fear NOT because fear is the opposite of faith as the JUST shall live by faith.

23
_MarthaA on June 8, 2006 at 12:03 AM

Actually, the Evangelicals are developing cracks in their solidarity.
Check out www.sojo.net.
Sojourners was founded by an Evangelical preacher, who was disgusted by the extremist "religious right" and felt they were only picking and choosing what they wanted to believe in and ignoring Christ's message.
It's a fairly ecuminical site, and you will find articles and quotes from a number of religions.
It's for people who are proud to be the "Religious left".

24
Butte on June 8, 2006 at 11:54 AM

Butte:

I did check out http://www.sojo.net

and discovered Hillary Clinton and Rick Santorum trying to act like they are Political LEFT Christians, NOT.

25
_MarthaA on June 8, 2006 at 06:52 PM

Butte:

Do you know the word demagogue? Look it up if you don't. Total demagoguery is what the type of religion displayed at the sojo.net site is called. It served the Republicans well on the RIGHT, apparently the Professional "Middle" Class is trying to use the same tactics and see how well it works on the LEFT, but I think Political LEFT Christians know their Lord better than that.

26
_MarthaA on June 8, 2006 at 07:11 PM

Retraction of 4 years off Senator Hillary Clinton's stay on the Board of Directors for Wal-Mart:

New York Senator Hillary Clinton was on the Board of Directors for Wal-Mart for 6 years.

27
_MarthaA on June 8, 2006 at 11:21 PM

So? Hillary's been trying to act like a Democrat for years, too. That doesn't mean she's a real
Democrat either, but she keeps showing up on Democrat sites. Does that make all the Democrats a bunch of demagogues too?
You missed the whole point, anyway. The point isn't that Hillary and other Republi-lites are trying to woo the religious left. The point is that there is a religious left who are fed up with the "Religious right" and Republican hypocrisy.
As for "type of religion" displayed on sojo.net, as I said before, it tends to be ecuminical. Ecuminical basically means culturally diverse, or willing to accept diverse culture in others. In this case the cultures of various religions.
You are not ecuminical.

28
Butte on June 8, 2006 at 11:44 PM

Butte:

I am a Christian and believe each persons religion is private and that we the people should leave proselytizing in government up to GOD and not MAN.

What I am for is the Wal-Mart Culture of WORKING AND POOR CLASS that is 70% of the population of the United States having a piece of the pie that the Professional Class has so greedily dumped us to get, so that the WORKING PEOPLE will not be completely cut out, as the Hillaries of the Professional Class have chosen. You can talk and claim religion all day long, but if your Class has NO REPRESENTATION in the HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES and NO REPRESENTATION in the SENATE, then your Class has no representation in Government of the United States. Working people currently have NO REPRESENTATION IN UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT. What I want is representation of the WORKING AND POOR CLASS in the Government of the United States. Right now WORKING PEOPLE are being TAXED; but are not being represented in the government of the United States, which is TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. If you think WORKING PEOPLE, other than the Professional Class, are being represented in the Congress of the United States, then you aren't aware of what is going on. The WORKING AND POOR CLASS are in need of representatives that will represent the side of the WORKING PEOPLE and the POOR, as when and if you lose your job, or the REPUBLICANS and PROFESSIONALS as incognito REPUBLICANS outsource your job, then you will be POOR and need to be represented in the Congress. The WORKING AND POOR CLASS includes everyone that isn't of the PROFESSIONAL CLASS or the ELITE CAPITALIST CLASS.

29
_MarthaA on June 11, 2006 at 02:30 AM

Martha: If you are sooo for the working class, why do you keep sounding like one of the liberal elite speaking bureaucratese. Really, you and Thomas both sound like you swallowed a turn-of-the-last century sociology textbook full of musty advice on how to "save the working class".
Get out, get a life, and see what's going on for yourselves. Climb into your SUVs, drive out of your gated communities and see what's really going on.
It's nice that you stick up for us lumpy proletariats, but don't think you have the solutions until you know the problems, and can speak about them first hand.
All you are doing is turning people off.

30
Butte on June 11, 2006 at 09:28 AM

PS: And stop screaming at everybody in that damn bold-face font. It just makes one feel like "Oh, here's another rant coming,"
This is supposed to be a discussion, not a lecture by some out-of-touch limosine liberal.

31
Butte on June 11, 2006 at 09:32 AM

Butte:

Apparently you can't stand to have the word "poor" mentioned in the same breath as "working"; but when a member of the Working and Poor Class gets badly ill, like trying to fight cancer, or loses their "working" job, that person is poor whether they like it or not.

I have a grassroots life, thank you. My life is not in the gated communities of the Professional Class of Republican Lights that the DCCC represents. I am of the Grassroots Class, the 70% population of the United States that Governor Dean through the DNC and the Democracy For America Movement represents.

The problem is that the Working and Poor Class are being TAXED and are NOT being REPRESENTED. This is the problem in a nutshell. If you do not understand that working people are not being represented in Congress, then you are the one that is in the gated community and need to get in your SUV and drive out and look around.

There is more to this election than just winning or losing. The 70% Working and Poor Class is fighting for representation in the Congress of the United States. The DCCC-Republican Lights took away the working persons representation when the NEW CLASS, the Professional "Middle" Class of Republican Light was put in place to represent the complete LEFT. Surely you are aware there is a new class. If not, you should learn.

The New Class has determined that their NEW Class, the Professional Class of Republican Lights, funded by Republicans, is all that needs to be represented on the LEFT and are represented solely by the DCCC which isn't actually left, but RIGHT.

If a DCCC Republican Light Candidate should get elected, the 70% Working and Poor Class of working people will not have gained representation. Can you understand that?

32
_MarthaA on June 14, 2006 at 12:29 PM

Butte:

Apparently you can't stand to have the word "poor" mentioned in the same breath as "working"; but when a member of the Working and Poor Class gets badly ill, like trying to fight cancer, or loses their "working" job, that person is poor whether they like it or not.

I have a grassroots life, thank you. My life is not in the gated communities of the Professional Class of Republican Lights that the DCCC represents. I am of the Grassroots Class, the 70% population of the United States that Governor Dean through the DNC and the Democracy For America Movement represents.

The problem is that the Working and Poor Class are being TAXED and are NOT being REPRESENTED. This is the problem in a nutshell. If you do not understand that working people are not being represented in Congress, then you are the one that is in the gated community and need to get in your SUV and drive out and look around.

There is more to this election than just winning or losing. The 70% Working and Poor Class is fighting for representation in the Congress of the United States. The DCCC-Republican Lights took away the working persons representation when the NEW CLASS, the Professional "Middle" Class of Republican Light was put in place to represent the complete LEFT. Surely you are aware there is a new class. If not, you should learn.

The New Class has determined that their NEW Class, the Professional Class of Republican Lights, funded by Republicans, is all that needs to be represented on the LEFT and are represented solely by the DCCC which isn't actually left, but RIGHT.

If a DCCC Republican Light Candidate should get elected, the 70% Working and Poor Class of working people will not have gained representation. Can you understand that?

The Republican funded DLC through the DCCC are trying to get around having to go through the DNC. This is not a DLC or a DCCC Blog. This is a DNC Blog. All funding that is really democratic will come through the Democratic National Committee.

33
_MarthaA on June 14, 2006 at 12:38 PM

Oh, whoopeee, another Martha rant.
Look, working people in this economy ARE mostly poor, that's a given. But when you say "poor" in this rhetorical environment, you get the the right wing's sexist, racist "black mother on welfare cranking out babies" BS. It's a divisive technique that splits people when they should be uniting.
Ranting, the way you do, only convinces people that you and your ideas, are wrong, out-of-touch, and harmful to them in some way. It sure doesn't unite anyone.
I've been there, done that, and I talk to grass roots people every day. They sure don't sound like you. They certainly don't blotherate in second hand words out of some 1910 version of a sociology text book.
Such textbooks, by the way, were extremely classist, encouraging the "upper classes" to "save the poor" mainly from themselves, and steadfastly refusing to understand that decent work environments, pay, and being treated with dignity could do more for the poor than prohibition, and settlement houses.
The workers in the early 20th century, raised themselves up by insisting on decent pay, decent working hours, pensions and such. That's who built the labor unions, the workers, not the know-it-all classist social workers. We need to return to the workers movements, and better unions.
We need more people who will stand up and be counted, who will lead the common people, the workers, to unite and bring about their own solutions. Those leaders will come from the people you keep putting down with you "lumpen proletariat" crap.
I for one am proud to be a "lumpy proletariat".
If you are so "grassroots" why do you keep talking in this turn of the last century classist sociological rhetoric, anyway? Those concepts have been proven to be bogus, long ago. It's only some out-of-touch limosine liberals who cling to these misbegotten concepts.
If you want people to listen to you and respect your opinion, you need to learn to talk TO people and not lecture people like they are some kind of knuckle dragging cretins. I keep expecting you to use the "1984" term "proles" or is that book too modern for you? It's still a put down.
You certainly don't seem to absorb the fact that most people basically agree with what you have said and don't need you to keep beating them over the head with it. People stop listening after a while. Keep it up and they will be 100% against any ideas you put forward.
We need solutions, not blotheration, ranting, and going over the same ground over and over and over, ad nauseam.
Get a life.

34
Butte on June 14, 2006 at 02:52 PM

Butte:

Are you saying you're a Republican and proud of it, because that is what a Lumpen-Proletariat is? A Lumpen-Proletariat is a person on the left that chooses to follow the right and doesn't know the difference.

35
_MarthaA on June 14, 2006 at 04:01 PM

Butte:

You sound like a 2 making an argument for someone who can win, like Gore or Kerry.

Talking to people that are lumpen-proletariat who think they are Republicans as if they have good sense does not work, and you are making a good argument as to why; i.e., tell me what I want to hear and I will listen; tell me the truth and I will not listen.

Your behavior and other lumpen-proletariats with the same behavior must have their foolish behavior attached to them whether they want to hear it or not, and when they drag it around like a tail for long enough, they will become ashamed and start to change, not because they understand, but because they do not want to be perceived as foolish lumpen-proletariat Republicans.

It is a process that will continue. It is not necessary that a fool should understand. It is necessary for a fool to perceive his/her own foolish behavior and be ashamed of it so that the process of change, the beginning of wisdom, can start.

BTW, ask me what a 2 is and I will be happy to cite the reference for a 2, if you do not know.

36
ThomasG_ on June 14, 2006 at 08:01 PM

The Roberts court has shown were it is headed with the fourth amendment case it just decided on. We are seeing the activist radical right wing court unfolding. Scalia is now mainstream! What is next?

The Constitution is sacred no more. This time it is the 4th amendment. Next would be President as first among equals in the 3 branches of government in the domestic spying case.

37
SamSarma on June 15, 2006 at 12:33 PM

ThomasG & MarthaA:
You people are so ate up. You go around calling the disaffected former Democrat working people "Lumpen Proletariat" because they fell for the Republican's false issues and promises, and then when the time is ripe to get all these same people back into the fold with a grass-roots movement, all you two can do is go around lecturing people and being insulting by coming up with some snob-value bureaucratese name for them.
You two are so out-of-date, out-of-touch, do-gooder social worker with your better-than-thou, "we've got all the answers and you are stupid" attitudes.
Then, when I use a play on words to point out your arrogance in using this demeaning term, you call ME a Republican!!!
How many times did you guys flunk out of sociology class, anyway? Or was it political science you bombed on?
Why don't you two give up. If you start looking any dumber the little yellow bus will start coming for you.

38
Butte on June 15, 2006 at 08:26 PM


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