KINGBUSH AND FAITH BASED DECISIONS

Time has come to both ignore and override his "faith" based decisions. Time to allow science. I have no "faith" in this self appointed king of faith. I have "faith" in science. if i or my family becomes ill, i'd have a lot more faith in science. history shows the results of science to be a much better bet.

I am disabled with brittle Diabetes, Asthma and several other autoimmune diseases. Yesterday the neurologist discovered a tremor that will be investigated. Since Parkinson's runs in my family, this is, indeed, a cause for concern. All she can assure me is that it is not related to the progression of the Diabetic Neuropathy.
Were President Bush to succeed with this veto, he would be sentencing me, and millions of others, to an early senseless death. For what reason? Simply because he is too lazy to read about the research for himself and chooses to do what will make him appear more palatable to a group of narrow-minded religious zealots who, in reality, care no more for him than they do for the God they claim to worship.
Having done research on the socio-pathic personality, I have already come to the conclusion that the description aptly fits our fearful leader. However, this action simply proves it to me. He cares for no one but himself and certainly he has shown that the disabled in this nation have no more of his consideration than the 20 year old soldiers he has sent to Iraq to be killed simply because his ego would not allow him to admit there were no WMDs.
My sincere hope is that we find a way in which to "depose" this pretender soon so the nation CAN find its values again. The ones that don't include a false religion of lying, cheating and refusing to take responsibility for one's actions.

All these supposed pro-life people seem to do is try to make themselves God.Thay want to choose who lives and who dies.It`s rather hypocritical to sign off on peoples lives,and yet sign on wholeheartedly to war in the mideast.Both positions to me are against life!Quite frankly I`m sick to death of these people trying to cram down my throat how I am suppose to live.Last time I checked I thuoght we suppose to be a free country.These people don`t seem to respect any other views as someones right to think and feel the way they want.They do not respect other peoples religious views.
Right on to that! Man, I can so relate to this! I have a mother who's a born-again christian and she is sooooooo narrow minded about, this and everything! She's even against cryogentic freezing of people so they can reunite w/ their loved ones in the future! She said, about it "Why does they want to do this 'to reunite w/ their loved ones?' You're supossed to meet your loved ones in heaven!" Damn, doesn't she realize that these people may not hold the same views as her? So I guess this is a case of not opening your mind to understand people than "being against this", but still, very narrow minded!

Religion and Politics are somehow taking precedent over Science and Humanity. Ignorance exorcised a veto; let intelligence IMPEACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many "human beings" did King George kill while [cough] reading his magazines as a young prince?

The DNC is playing loose with the truth. Even the new Time Mag says so. Bush did not stop stem cell research, and adult stem cell research is as promising as embryonic. Furthermore, as Time points out, federal funding would not have resulted in that many more lines. Also, if so many people, Dem and Rep, are for embryonic stem cell research, then clearly Bush's veto was not for political reasons. Even if it was, the research can still continue, just not off the public nipple. What is political is how the Dems are lying about what really happened!

So,this means our party is going to take back Congress in a few months.Then,when we win in 2008,we will revisit this legislation and it will have a very different outcome.

"public nipple?" shucks, that could include the US Geologial, NASA, Public Health... personally, i'm for govt funding for science & research. i'm not for funding "bush's faith based" aka his pseudo science initiatives.

My sister is in her 30's and has been battling diabetes since 91 and i'm not surprised about bush's veto and what the repubs did in the house,but come november Bush,Rove and the repubs will get what's coming to them.

If Bush stopped funding public health, america1st, would medicine be outlawed? That is what Dean is claiming happended today.

My very life is at stake! Diabetes has ran in my family for generations. Rather than offering me the hope of a long healthy life, free from all of the complications that result from this terrible disease, President Bush has decided to pander to religious extremists, who value a clump of cells(most of which will either be discarded or left to whither away) over the quality of life of people actually LIVING!!! This is maddness! What time period are we living in? His decision to exercise his first veto on this important issue is indicative of his priorities, which are death, greed, and destruction. This is the most blantant anti-life decision ever made by a president. Billions of people could die over the next few decades because of this appauling decision. Their blood will be on Bush's hands.

My very life is at stake! Diabetes has ran in my family for generations. Rather than offering me the hope of a long healthy life, free from all of the complications that result from this terrible disease, President Bush has decided to pander to religious extremists, who value a clump of cells(most of which will either be discarded or left to whither away) over the quality of life of people actually LIVING!!! This is maddness! What time period are we living in? His decision to exercise his first veto on this important issue is indicative of his priorities, which are death, greed, and destruction. This is the most blantant anti-life decision ever made by a president. Billions of people could die over the next few decades because of this appauling decision. Their blood will be on Bush's hands.

It isn't possible that 70% of the population supports stem cell research. We know that 30% is opposed, because that's the percentage of Evangelicals,Pentecostals,Fundamentalists, and miscellaneous born again Christians plus some Baptists. It is not possible that the remaining 70% of the population are all, every single one, in favor of stem cell research. At least 25% of that 70% are Catholic, and a lot of them are opposed to embryonic stem cell research. With the born again group being 30% of the population and the Republicans political base, pro Life groups are now the majority of the population.

Since no one really respects Bush because of all the lies and mental reservations he uses, the Democrats would be better served by being sure they're always telling the absolute truth and that their statistics are always accurate. 70% of the US population does not agree on anything.

This change in stem cell funding is not a small one, it's a big one. It uses my money to dissect human embryos that are full of human dna in the same way we do a bug in biology class, just to get at its stem cells. We can get great stem cells in huge quantities from umbilical cord blood. We can only get a small number from an embryo. It's a waste of money. If the Democrats really wanted to encourage stem cell research and give hope to millions, they would sponsor legislation to create cord blood banks and do research on cord blood stem cells. I don't think the religious groups would object to research on umbilical cord stem cells. They just don't want embryos that contain human dna, the source of each person's uniqueness and individuality,dissected to get its stem cells. I think the Democrats just wanted to try to embarrass Pres. Bush with these stem cell bills, and he's not embarrassed. If the Democrats wanted stem cell research to go forward right now, they would have funded umbilical cord blood banks for stem cell research and authorized kinds of ttem cell research the religious groups would support.

The Democrats make themselves look ridiculous with their posturing about stem cell research and abortion rights. Because of the steadily increasing membership of the born again Christian groups, the pro Life population is in the majority. Democrats need to switch to cord blood stem cells and take abortion off the table if they want to put someone in the White House.

dean has an M.D. after his name. when dean was beginning to pursue/into practicing medicine, bush was either hanging out in an air national guard bar or taking "medicine."

"the pro Life population is in the majority"

be careful about that statement...there are degrees of tolerance for abortion. some are completely opposed no matter if it was incest or rape. others would allow in cases of incest or rape or if the mother's health was at risk. and, still others would allow it to be the choice of the mother.

"I think the Democrats just wanted to try to embarrass Pres. Bush with these stem cell bills, and he's not embarrassed."

i don't agree. this is not an issue to embarrass the president. this is an issue that many believe has prospects... as to this one particular type of stem cell research, sometimes the least expected in results gives the best. science is based on experimentation. mankind advanced thru trial and error from science & research, not faith based doctrines.

It is amazing how someone can decide to drop bombs on people's heads because he hates their ruler and disagrees with their policies, and then talk about saving the lives of embryos that aren't ever going to become children. It just doesn't make any sense to me. But that's what you get when you elect a dumbo for President.

momintn,

is the norm aka looney bushspeak... means no to stem cells because it's "killing." means yes to accept civilian "casualties" in iraq and lebanon because it's fighting terrorism. bush represents the worst end of this faith based doctrine stuff. even god can't save us from this looney... the november elections could.

I think the Democrats just wanted to try to embarrass Pres. Bush with these stem cell bills, and he's not embarrassed.
Posted by Polycarp on July 19, 2006 at 11:22 PM

Poly,
This bill was passed by a Republican controlled congress. The president vetoed his own party's bill, NOT a Democrat bill [H.R.810 introduced by Michael Castle (DE-R) and S.471 introduced by Arlen Specter (PA-R)]. Hmmm... Seems Mr Bush was being embarrassed by his OWN party. All the democrats are doing is commenting on how unfortunate Mr Bush's decision to veto this bill was and will be over time.

And to think that the issue of stem cell research is the reason for the first EVER veto of his administration. Perhaps this is the beginning of the end of his stranglehold over congress to do HIS bidding. Maybe even the congressmen are beginning to see how out of touch and out of control this president has become.

Here's an excerpt from what the bill (H.R.810) says that was vetoed today:

`SEC. 498D. HUMAN EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH.

`(a) In General- Notwithstanding any other provision of law (including any regulation or guidance), the Secretary shall conduct and support research that utilizes human embryonic stem cells in accordance with this section (regardless of the date on which the stem cells were derived from a human embryo) .

`(b) Ethical Requirements- Human embryonic stem cells shall be eligible for use in any research conducted or supported by the Secretary if the cells meet each of the following:

`(1) The stem cells were derived from human embryos that have been donated from in vitro fertilization clinics, were created for the purposes of fertility treatment, and were in excess of the clinical need of the individuals seeking such treatment.

`(2) Prior to the consideration of embryo donation and through consultation with the individuals seeking fertility treatment, it was determined that the embryos would never be implanted in a woman and would otherwise be discarded.

`(3) The individuals seeking fertility treatment donated the embryos with written informed consent and without receiving any financial or other inducements to make the donation.

It's a sad day for those who could possibly benefit from something that was already going to be thrown away anyhow....

Also, if so many people, Dem and Rep, are for embryonic stem cell research, then clearly Bush's veto was not for political reasons.
Posted by formercalifornian on July 19, 2006 at 09:29 PM

MSNBC had an excellent article on this a few days Prior to the Senate vote. That is was a complete SHAM. That Republicans KNEW Bush would veto this, so they pretended they were FOR the Research for their own Election prospects! They KNOW the majority of Americans believe in and want this, so they had to look like they were for it.

Got anybody in your family with one of those diseases they think they can help? ahhhh, I didn't think so or your Greed for your precious wallet would be outweighed by your hope for cures! Better go light a candle that your gramma does not get alzheimers, nor your Momma Parkinsons!

by the way, how you enjoying that $250+ million EACH DAY which goes to fund Bush's illegal invasion and occupation of a Losing Proposition in Iraq ?? That will be coming out of your pocket for generations to come. That's at the "Public Nipple" too !!! fighting those big bad terrorists who weren't even there before Bush entered!

Get real, kiddo.

Bush has lost interest in the war in Iraq and he has left the Military dangling in the wind.

He seems to be interested in renewing his form of Christian Faith. His form of faith is popular with the group that believes if they speak great swelling words of faith and then say and do what you want.

God spoke of this form of faith as erring brothers that draw close to me with their mouth and their heart is far from God.

Posted by Polycarp on July 19, 2006 at 11:22 PM

sighhhh.

So much ignorance out there, so little time!

What is embarassing, little man, is the fact that someone like you dares to post such stupidity on a public forum. No wonder you use an alias to hide who you are.! Your Mom must be SO proud!

Actually every woman should be furious with Bush. He is the least diplomatic President I can ever remember which puts us at risk for going to war with many countries and sending our children to die. But when it comes to our own bodies, he wants to decide when we have children, which in many cases is a health decision, both for the mother and for the child, and he wants to decide what can even be done with our body parts such as our embryos. Maybe he will outlaw tubal ligation next. I'm sure he would remove the morning after pill if he could. Think about how many rape victims there are every day that would have to face bearing of their perp's child. He has cut back on funds for law enforcement which leaves us more vulnerable to crime. There is little border control to screen out criminals and fewer agents to track them down and take them off of the street. Women everywhere should be completely outraged!

In his political posturing against stem cell research, the President has put his own twisted ideological and amoral views of the world over sound science. If the President had any real moral backbone, he would have never misled the country and the whole world into an amoral war. His opposition to stem cell research is as amoral as his invasion of Iraq.

Women everywhere should be completely outraged!
Posted by MominTN on July 20, 2006 at 10:10 AM

I am constantly amazed that any Female or any Minority race could vote Republican. It is clearly against their own best interest, yet they are easily swayed by the Framing that this Republican party has created. They will put aside their own interests, if told that the other party wants to go against God.

The question is how do we reach these people and show them that Democrats have always taken care of their rights, their jobs, their home buying, their children and their education, their disabilities, their health, etc.

Forget about the political calculations that went into the President’s veto of stem cell research.

What makes the Republicans think that their opposition to stem cell research will stop the Europeans and the Chinese and the Japanese from embarking in this type of medical discovery? Give us another decade and we will be paying though the nose for this ideologically driven veto.

Democrats and the Biotech industry should be up in arms about this one. This country will loose on a huge wave of medical discovery patents that will result from stem cell research. In the meantime we will loose those scientists whose professional careers are heavily invested in stem cell research.

This veto represents another step towards the demise of the USA’s preeminence in bio medical research.

This President and his supporters would rather see this country go back to blood-letting and leeches (Hirudo medicinalis) as the best way to heal this country.

I was totally disappointed and outraged that Bush vetoed this bill. I think it was shameful to have those kids on stage, like it was about kids and not adults. SHAMEFUL, Mr. President!

When one of those kids OR PARENTS on stage need modern medicine, Bush can tell them "Sorry Charlie, protecting UNBORN life is more important than suffering LIVES." Heck of a job, Bushie, Mr Compassion, and friend of humanity. I really don't think he understands the definition of life. And he sure does not understand the definition of liberty. He is the first anti-science President.

The fact of the matter is that our counrty is run by a fundamentalist in the White House. And just like Islamic fundamentalists, they do not respect personal and social FREEDOMS. Similarly, they both want more nuke weapons. Such people of Life and God they are, indeed. HYPOCRITES!

It's time for ACTION! We must make a stand for those who can not stand, and those who need modern medicine for LIFE. In the name of LIFE and LIBERTY, we must make a stand for Americans in need, and the future of ALL Americans. I've started an organization to get people involved in this important issue, and push for real infrastructure investment that TRULY makes America stronger, and better prepared for the future. And we are MOST ETHICAL and MORAL.

I wonder how long until Bush realizes that many of our injured troops could benefit from embryonic stem cell research? Or is his foreign/domestic policy a fundamentalist plan to start a 3rd World War for the "Second Coming of Christ?" I keep praying he will prove me wrong, but he keeps destabilizing the globe, and destroying the environment. Thus, ALL LIFE is in peril.

It's time for a real leader with vision and understanding. WE NEED someone like VP AL GORE. He won the first time, he can win again... IF we count all the votes, and demand truth and integrity in our voting system and Democracy. Humanity demands vision, wisdom, action and responsibility.

MOTILITY MATTERS
Stem cells, brain cells, idiocy and imbeciles.
I am again reminded of the November 04' Daily Mirrors' front page picture of our just reelectd president and this question:
"How can 59,054,087 People be so STUPID?"

China’s Race for Frontier Science

From the BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/5194192.stm

"Science and technology have recently been made a priority by the Chinese government which expects that the industries will soon account for most of the country's economic growth. Heavy investment has already made China a leader in areas such as stem cell research."

Bush and other opponents of ESR believe embryos are members of the moral community. They believe embryos possess the necessary criteria for moral consideration and protections. What are those criteria? Bush claims embryos and zygotes are human lives. In what way are they human lives?

Bush and the other ESR opponents believe human life and inclusion in the moral community is defined by possessing the human genome and very basic cellular division. This definition trivializes the moral community and defines the moral community in unacceptable ways. For example, cancer tumors and corpses satisfy their criteria for inclusion in the moral community. Ethical consistency demands that we protect cancer tumors equivalent with embryos. Cancer tumors clearly are not members of the moral community; in fact, we have waged a war on cancer.

On the other side, their definition of the moral community eliminates too many entities. Nonhuman animals and (hypothetically) extraterrestrial and artificial life do not qualify as members of the moral community. We should and do include nonhuman animals as members of the moral community to some degree. Starfish posses more neural networks than an embryo with a primitive streak yet the opponents of ESR do not champion for starfish rights. Since the ESR opponents’ definition fails on the grounds that it includes too much and eliminates too much, some alternative criteria is necessary for defining the moral community. Very basic criteria that is not racist or speciesist include the capacity to suffer and cognitive states. Embryos satisfy none of these criteria. Likewise, cancer tumors and corpses do not whereas nonhuman animals do.

"Who knows how many human embryos we will have to destroy before any tangible progress is made?" asked Senator Jim Bunning. How many human [adult lives] we will have to destroy before any tangible progress is made [in Iraq]? Oppoents of ESR value overly simplified biological properties-cellular division-over a biographical life. A life filled with love, goals, dreams, projects, disappointments; a life that is lived. When an actual life that is lived conflicts with a biological life that is nothing more than cellular division, the actual life always wins. In other words, actual lives with actual, realized rights to life, happiness, and personal liberty always trump potential lives with unrealized rights.

The Democrats can recover the minority groups and the religious groups who teach social justice and stewardship over the earth, and even the Catholics who have historically voted Democrat. They can get these groups back any time they want. They just have to take the issues away from the Republicans. Switch the stem cell issue to umbilical cord blood stem cells (no human embryos involved here), and take abortion off the table. The new official Compendium of the (Catholic) Church's Teaching on Social Justice is so liberal it would make even an New England Democrat's head spin. The Catholics will have to vote for social justice and environment issues if abortion and stem cell research aren't an issue.

Listen I agree that the Democratic Party would gain a lot of votes by dropping abortion and certain types of stem cells,and they would lose a lot!I`m a guy and to me you write off women when you drop abortion.This makes women invisible in their choice of their own situation in life.You can`t treat another person that way without treating yourself that way.We are dealing with an administration who is trying to drag this country back to the 40`s or 50`s.Our problem as a party is we are not prepared to fight their logic with a more convincing logic.We allow them to label us pro-abortion!We are not pro-abortion .We are pro choice!This is not the same thing!We as a party do not think we have a right to be making a decision of that magnitude for a person who has their own rights!Besides that 99% of the people in prison are unwanted children.The planet is all ready over populated!? Once again people of a certain religion are trying to tell me what I should think!Quite frankly I`m sick an tired of these people shoulding all over me!You can think what you like.