canvas, phone bank, light candles...we are almost to the top of the mountain, hopefully the promised land is on the other side...

In the war on terror there are financiers and there are fighters. Financiers supply the funds and the supplies with which fighters carry out their orders. Without financiers the fight will fail.

This is why we must apply pressure to Saudi Arbia, the United Arab Emirates, and all other Middle Eastern nations from which terrorist funding flows. Until we do, we have no hope of ending terrorism. For every financier we remove hundreds of fighters will follow.

Good afternoon

There is a light at the end of the tunnel. To use a John Edward phrase Hope is on the way

Marine- I wish stopping terrorist were that easy.

I am separating the Iraqi's who want to control their own country from terrorist.

When you refer to Muslim extremists as terrorists,you are adding religion into the mix. I'm not sure how much funding it takes to obtain explosives for a suicide bomb.

dixie, it takes far more than explosives to make a terrorist. It takes food to sustain him, training to mold him, and fabric to cloth him. And I agree dixie, in a land where more than 80% of the population is Muslim, it is not a good idea to accuse Islam of creating the problem. We do, after all, have Muslim allies.

You must kill the movement, for so long as it exists, terrorism will continue to recruit new members. Otherwise, you have a war of attrition, and in a war of attrition he who most wishes to inhabit the land wins. I don't think we really want to colonize the Middle East, do you?

Marine - I agee we need the involvement of Arab countries in resolving our Iraqi occupation. I'm afraid we may have waited too long. All of the Saudi predictions have come true. We are still in Iraq, Iran is stronger and we have a civil war raging in that country. We did not listen to our Muslim allies so how we can expect them to become involved at this point.

greetings bloggers- happy saturday. it appears a new thread opened up around the time i posted at the bottom of the last one. i posted a couple responses (one from enquirer editor and another from a mother in mason) in today's paper to story that i posted the other night about mason school board brouhaha over some muslims who were permitted to have a separate room during ramadan so that they had somewhere they could go while others at lunch- be interested in impressions here if you want to take the time to click on links at other thread- gotta run

Marine - you and I may not wish to colonize the Middle East, but are you so sure about the neocons?

She lives in a make believe world. I hope she will be sitting down as the Nov 7 election results come in - I am not sure she can except the results when the Dems take back the Congress.

Have you seen Lynn Cheney's Wolf Blitzer interview?

see it here

dk2- Things are getting desparate at the GOP - What's next Barb?

Marine - any ideas on how you kill the movement?

When Israel was fighting Hezbolah, there was interview on BBC with women who were entering Syria. They were leaving with children to raise another generation to return and fight.

The ads get nastier as the phonies behind the Republican spin machine get more desparate. Republicans seem to have built a campaign strategy that depends on the dumbing of the American voting public. They are down to sound bites, "Willy Horton" type racist ads, lies about what Democrats stand for and their princilples and the Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Coulter right wing propaganda machine to "communicate" their mixed messages. They hope voters don't read their local papers, listen to straight talk and honest opinion on the radio or watch any television news programs other than the Fox "unfair and unbalanced" network.

How much longer must we contend with the "tax and spend" label, isn't 20 years of that enough? Is everything left of the ideological right really "liberal"? Will "cut and run" accusations and dropping "stay the course" get republicans re-elected? Stay tuned, because in a matter of several days we'll know how involved the public is in this election. Either they've become engaged in the real debate about the many real problems we face or they'll submit to the Republican propoganda machine, ignore the accomplish nothing/lobbiest dominated congress and STAY THE COURSE presidential administration.

I affirm that this government represents the will of the people and no one has the right to impose a timetable on it," Mr Maliki said at a news conference on Wednesday.

The stipulation of a timeline was, he said, the product of US domestic politics.

"I am positive that this is not the official policy of the American government but rather a result of the ongoing election campaign," he said then.

US involvement in Iraq and the ongoing violence there have become key issues ahead of US mid-term elections, which take place next month. bbc

So there is no timetable/benchmarks? I find it interesting that US officials say 18 months and Iraqis will be able to handle things. Iraqi parliment over Sunni objections has voted to establish 3 autonomous regions in 18 months.

Good day Dems. Lots of great posts the last few days. Lots of issues.

I see "what" discussed every way from sunday. I keep looking for some "why?".

Why do we occupy Iraq.

Why are we getting ready to bomb Iran?

Why are we letting the little group of neo cons dominate our government and implement their agenda?

Just askin

Most of the Democrat nominees for House seats are conservatives. They would be considered trolls if they posted here. If they win and the Dems take the house, there is no way that Nancy Pelosi will be speaker.

They should be running liberals.

On the bright side, you might have a whole lot of Lieberman's to "destroy" next election. LOL

Why are we letting the little group of neo cons dominate our government and implement their agenda?

Just askin

Posted by steady-as-she-goes on October 28, 2006 at 01:51 PM

I can't think of a single neo con who is still in the administration.

CalDem - I agree. I get tired of having my intelligence insulted. All the more reason to GOTV-talk to anyone and everyone you can. to quote Bill Clinton - when voters think, democrats win.

I'm certain that the neocons do not wish to colonize the Middle East by themselves. As for Muslim allies, we have them and we need to pressure them to take down those financing terrorism in the rural Middle East.

steady - we are in Iraq because GW didn't want to be a wimp like his father and Sadam tried to kill his Daddy.

By the way, it doesn't matter if the neocons do want to colonize the Middle East because they'll never find enough willing participants to overcome forces that have called the place home for millennia.

Marine - Most of our Muslim allies have seen an increase of terrorist activity in their own countries. Saudi Arabia and Egypt were home to Osama and co. I think Jordan is our best bet in the area.

I recall the last time one Congressman from Mississippi refused to vote for Pelosi, so if the House ends up closely split with the Dems with more seats, they could still elect a Republican speaker.

Especially with the conservative candidates you have running.

We are in Iraq because the desire to enter that country militarily did not die the day Bush Sr. determined that to be a horrible idea. Bush Jr. knew that the desire remained and believed that sanctions would have weakened their defenses to a point that would make the invasion easy. He was right about the invasion, of course, but he never considered the aftermath, just hopes and dreams.

Ambition guided Bush Jr. Establishing greater control over this oil rich nation was also a consideration. Humanity was the excuse.

What's all this neo con talk - Wolfowitz was the last one and he runs the world bank now.

Marine - Most of our Muslim allies have seen an increase of terrorist activity in their own countries. Saudi Arabia and Egypt were home to Osama and co. I think Jordan is our best bet in the area.

This is a direct reflection of the anti-Islam movement that took hold following the attacks of September 11, 2001. Terrorists used the religion to gather support in a region that is 80% Muslim and these foolish Americans and Brits played directly into their hands. They consider themselves our military's greatest supporters but fail to realize that their hatred of Muslims places us in grave danger, even when operating in friendly parts of the Middle East.

thought this list of pnac members might be worth posting to remind some here of who these people are- rumdum's name stands out here- i don't think this list is by any means exaustive of those who support this garbage

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Bush_administration:_Project_for_the_New_American_Century

On CNN earlier today: Criticism mounts of U.S. Generals in Iraq.

I believe that General Abuzaid and General Casey are to fine, dedicated military men. IMHO both generals were forced to make a choice between doing what this inept administration dictated or totally ruining their long military careers. What would you do?

cheney's name stands out on this list too- last i checked, mr "they're in their last throes" was still an active part of this fiasco

for the thick-skulled who come posting here, these are some of the key individuals who are part of the so-called "neocon" movement

Our military leaders must make the hard choice of doing what is right for America, especially when it means speaking out against an inept political leadership. This is the only way that America can be successful in the Middle East.

Many of you don't know what a neo con is. A neo con is a conservative who used to be a liberal and saw the light. None of the main players at the top levels of the Government today used to be liberals.

Marine - Maybe we should clarify the term colonize. I don't think we want to establish colonies of Americans living in the Middle East, but we do want to control the governments.

I think this is part of the problem in Iraq. We had the military might to overthrow Sadam. We haven't been able to get the Iraqis to agree to do things our way.

We do not want a Shia led government, but they are the majority in the country. We didn't/do want Sunnis (former Bathist) - who the hell knows any more?

What is happening is a quarter million or more displaced Iraqis, those who can are leaving the country. Shades of Bosnia but at the worst we are calling it a civil war

Doh!

I don't think we want to establish colonies of Americans living in the Middle East, but we do want to control the governments.

You are exactly right, dixie. This is why the current approach is backwards. The current administration is not willing to compromise with local leaders. They've always wanted exactly what they want and nothing less, this is why they are not going to get it and why Iraq remains at war with itself.

lectures about who is a neocon now- look at the list- pnac was founded by neocons and their ideas- just because some on the list happen to have been "conservative" all their life (and note that many true conservatives do not subscribe to the actions or ideas of the crowd running this administration because they have violated some of their basic principles about government, society and foreign policy) does not make them any less a signatory and supporter of this neocon group and its central ideas- like i said, some who come here should spend more time reading and less time sharing the muck in their muddled mind

When you realize that all they really want is an Iraq hospitable to the thought of continued trade with the United States, their approach becomes even more troubling.

The only group of neo cons are the neo cons, you can't become a neo con by associating with them unless you are a liberal. If Rumsfeld shares some views with the neo cons that doesn't make him a neo con because he can't be a neo con because he was never a liberal.

I now it is confusing for you but maybe if your read that over slowly you will began to understand.

You could just call them scum and be done with the conversation.

Jefro- if you ignore it maybe it will just melt away

Some of us who post have read the list and know who is a neocon

You could just call them scum and be done with the conversation.

Posted by Marine on October 28, 2006 at 02:44 PM

That is no way to speak about muslems - the religion of peace.

There's blood in the water and the media is in a feeding frenzy as they rightfully savage the Republican think tanks and pundits who have been sooo wrong for sooo long.

Here's Bill Maher soundly smacking around some prominant think tanks and neocons ( 4 minute Video )

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/10/21/bill-maher-smacks-around-some-neocons/

Excerpt: Maher: " And finally, new rule in two parts: (A) You can't call yourself a think tank if all your ideas are stupid; and (B) If you're someone from one of these think tanks that dreamed up the Iraq War and who predicted that we'd be greeted as liberators, and that we wouldn't need a lot of troops, and that Iraqi oil would pay for the war, that the WMD's would be found, that the looting wasn't problematic, that the mission was accomplished, that the insurgency was in its last throes, that things would get better after the people voted, after the government was formed, after we got Saddam, after we got his kids, after we got Zarqawi, and that whole bloody mess wouldn't turn into a civil war, you have to stop making predictions."

Amen,

Allen L Roland

A Superpower in Decline: America's Middle Class Has Become Globalization's Loser

At the beginning of the 21st century, the United States is still a superpower. But it's a superpower facing competition from beyond its borders as well as internal difficulties. Its lower and middle classes are turning out to be the losers of globalization.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,439766,00.html

The question is, what will my Democratic Party do about this?

They are Muslim, Frosty, and they are our allies. You obvious think that it would be wise to convince them that our military hates them. So tell me, do you care even a little bit for your military?

Good afternoon,

Boy, you can tell it's crunch time. While out canvassing for McCaskill this moring, we ran into at least three other groups doing the same: one for the the school bond issue, one against the stem cell ammendment, and one labor union group for minimum wage.

Nice to see so many folks getting involved. It was aso great to get out and take advantage of the wonderful weather. There's lots of people out doing yard work and happy about the Cardinal victory last night. Even the Republicans stopped and talked about the game and didn't treat us like leapers.

Cheney's alliance with core neoconservatives, including the likes of I. Lewis Libby and Paul Wolfowitz, also began long ago. Both Wolfowitz and Libby worked under Cheney when he was defense secretary during the George H.W. Bush administration. The three oversaw the drafting of the notorious Defense Policy Guidance (DPG) in 1992, the first draft of which, although immediately rejected when it was leaked to the press, is often regarded as an early blueprint for what would be become the Bush Doctrine in the wake of 9/11. The scholars Chris Dolan and David Cohen write: “While the realists, most members of Congress, and the Clinton administration rejected the 1992 DPG draft, it would later be used by the neocons as a policy foundation from which to initiate the Bush doctrine in response to 9/11” (Politics & Policy, March 2006)..............

Five years after the draft DPG was produced, Cheney joined his neoconservative friends in launching the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). PNAC's founding statement of principles, issued on June 3, 1997, repeated many of the same goals laid out in the draft DPG, including the use of preemptive force, arguing that “the history of the 20th century should have taught us that it is important to shape circumstances before crises emerge, and to meet threats before they become dire.” It set out four additional elements of what it termed a “Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity:” “We need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future; we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values; we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad; we need to accept responsibility for America's unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.” Signatories to this statement included Cheney, Libby, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Elliott Abrams, and a cast of other core neoconservatives and right-wing Republicans.....

Commenting on Cheney's transformation into a leading advocate for an Iraq War, Brent Scowcroft, a close friend of Cheney's and the national security adviser to George H.W. Bush, said: “The real anomaly in the administration is Cheney. I consider Cheney a good friend—I've known him for 30 years. But Dick Cheney I don't know anymore … I don't think Dick Cheney is a neocon, but allied to the core of neocons is that bunch who thought we made a mistake in the first Gulf War, that we should have finished the job.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1072

jefro - don't you just love the way Maher just cuts through all the bs and gets right to the point

Does anyone else read the foreign press? The times of London has been running pieces on their own neocon cabal going down in flames. It's a trans-atlantic phenomenon.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7050/620/1600/civil%20war%20poster.jpg

Take a look at thid 1864 Democrat Party Poster. Not much has changed in 142 years. Then they wanted to surrender in the Civil War - CALLED IT A USELESS WAR.

Democrats wanted to surrender in the war that saved the nation and freed the slaves.

Nothing has changed, same old same old.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7050/620/1600/civil%20war%20poster.jpg

Take a look at thid 1864 Democrat Party Poster. Not much has changed in 142 years. Then they wanted to surrender in the Civil War - CALLED IT A USELESS WAR.

Democrats wanted to surrender in the war that saved the nation and freed the slaves.

Nothing has changed, same old same old.

Posted by Scorpio69er on October 28, 2006 at 02:52 PM

Let's hope our new reps running for the first time will push the issue. I don't know what the old timers will help them or elect to continue protecting their corporate campaign contributors. Let's hope they all start taking notice of the landscape and realize that the system is broken.

Either way they must concede NAFTA was unfair and fix it. If they don't act soon, it will be too late. This country is imploding as an economic force in the world. Only a fool clings to the past and failed policy.

A post so nice I posted it twice.

SandyH - Glad you weren't treated as a leaper. Wow, there is hope.

jefro - Pat Buchanan claims GW was converted also

Marine - The reasonably intelligent ones on this blog do support the military. We maybe against the war, but support our troops. omg I went through this during Nam and here I am again.

The war is over when we decide it's over, sally.

Are you into war re-enacting? Which side to you like to represent or do you take turns representing both depending on what part of the country you are visiting.

Or do you just profit from the concession stand selling merchandise? I suppose that is where your heart really lies.

Don't worry dixie, I know who Frosty is and what who he works for.

Silly me. I was not aware that George McClellan was running in any of the contested races. I really must get up on current events better.

You people decided the Civil War was over a year before Lincoln won it. If you people had had your way we would be two contries and the South would still have slaves. People would be kidnapping northern Negroes and selling them in the south.

It is best that Democrats stay out of office during war time. That way we will still have a nation when the war is over.

LOL, you people. Was anyone here alive during the Civil War?

My people? My people were still in Prague, thank you.

After reading Webb's radio address, here's what I wrote to the major papers in Virginia using the letter tool.

To the editor:

What luck Jim Webb has that dolt George Allen to replace. Otherwise, patriot that he is, he might have had to move to find a suitable seat.

Why is it that Jim Webb has been talking about the unworkable bases in Iraq for over two years while everyone has kept mum? That's easy. The bases and their real purpose, to accommodate our missile defense systems and monitor the communications networks of our (soon to be) enemies in Asia, are classified information--i.e. secret, not to be mentioned by those who pay for them or those who build them. (Conveniently, the nexus of the network that's being set up is in the Vatican-sized embassy in Baghdad where the construction workers don't speak English or Arabic).

So, how come Jim Webb is opening his mouth? The logical assumption is that since these plans to relocate our overseas military headquarters from Wester Europe to Iraq have been in the works for two decades, Webb was privy to them when they were hatched and when Saddam Hussein was still being bribed to accept them.

In any event, thank goodness someone other than Conrad Burns is starting to address the big secret. If we want to get our troops and all their hardware out, we're going to have to admit that it's there in the first place.
If you think this is all a fantasy, ask yourself what the other ninety percent of our troops who aren't trying to "secure" the country are actually doing there.

Frosty, my little retarded Republican friend, you don't even have a clue do you?

It is best that Democrats stay out of office during war time. That way we will still have a nation when the war is over.

Yes. We all know that Roosevelt effed up everything and Lindburgh would have handled it all so much better.

The Iraqi occupation will end in 18 months. The Iran war will begin 11/8/06.

Iraqi parliment has voted to establish 3 autonomous regions in 18 months. Iraqi PM was elected with support from Al Sadar - we are now on a military mission to destroy Al Sadar. Guess we want a new PM.

GW is fighting for his place in history. Will he go down as the president who divided Iraq and allowed Iran to obtain those weapons whose name he can not pronounce?

Have a nice day all, I'm going to go rest my eyes.

LOL, you people. Was anyone here alive during the Civil War?

Posted by Marine on October 28, 2006 at 03:25 Pm

The mentallity has lived on, it is amazing.

I think that we have had several wars since the American Civil War.

WWI President Wilson (D) won it.

WWII President Truman (D) won it.

Korea President Eisenhour (R) Surrendered

Vietnam President Nixon (R) Surrendered

Why not elect a Democrat President in 08 to win in Iraq?

Dixie - Partition will never work. Turkey is our NATO ally and have already declared taht an independent Kurdish region on their border will not be tolerated. Details here.

monicasmith - Sure hope Webb can overcome all that's been thrown at him. I think the only thing left is the kitchen sink.

The neocons took advantage of Bush's ignorance and inexperience

If anyone needs a brief refresher course on the origin and rise of the neo cons go here.

I keep waiting for Webb to bring up the disturbing fact that, for the first time in my life (I'm right on schedule to need reading glasses) all seven carrier strike groups are at sea. Three are in the Gulf region and four positioned to be available for a showdown with North Korea.

This country doesn't torture, we're not going to torture," Mr Bush was quoted by the Associated Press news agency during a photo session in Washington DC.

"We will interrogate people we pick up off the battlefield to determine whether or not they've got information that will be helpful to protect the country," he said.

What GW didn't say is that like everything else in this country, we outsource to foreign countries.

BlueGirl - We may have promised something over which we have no control - unless we can kill enough Iraqis and the only ones left are willing to do it our way

Signing off for now - keep the faith

Korea President Eisenhour (R) Surrendered

Vietnam President Nixon (R) Surrendered

Why not elect a Democrat President in 08 to win in Iraq?

Posted by rashlimbo on October 28, 2006 at 03:39 PM

Ike negotiate a peace agreement.

The Democrat Congress cut off funding for the Vietnam war.

Posted by steady-as-she-goes on October 28, 2006 at 01:51 PM

We are occupying Iraq because Saddam Hussein would not be bribed, threatened or beaten into letting us have land for fourteen permanent military bases where we could set up our missile defense systems, track satellites and monitor the communications of our real "enemies," the Russians and the Chinese and the Indians who are now building a Navy.
While our spy satellites cover the whole northern hemisphere, it's my guess that communications are bad when they are over the eastern hemisphere. Which is why we are installing all that fancy equipment in the nexus of the communications network, the embassy in Baghdad (N.S.A. East).
The only people who don't seem to understand what's being planned are the American people who are paying for it. The reason they don't know is because it's a secret. And the reason it's a secret is because Americans don't want to be an empire based on the use of force.
Americans want to be number one. But they want that designation by acclamation; not as a result of having beaten everyone else to a pulp.
Does that tell you why?

take care Cixie. TYour family is in our thoughts right now.

Um. I'm not black. Kind of the opposite. Blue eyes, blond hair. On the other hand, I find it difficult to believe that a half-way decent human being wouldn't find the coker crap reprehensible. Given the idea that the Southern strategy has screwed over African Americans for years, I find it hard to believe that any black voter would choose a Republican.

What I think is this. When I was a kid, I dated a black girl I met during an outreach in Detroit. Would this be used against me, if I ran for office? Shoot, miscengation. There is no way to show these people for the racist scum they are. Black men,white women? How about whiite men, blacvk womeen.

Lee Atwater tried to make peace with God about this sort of scurrilous crap. He knew he was dying. He knew it was disgusting. The RNC has no clue.

So, I suppose this comes down to how in the world could a black person actually vote for a party that puts them up as mandingo predators worthy of being cannon fodder for an insanely incompetent invasion and occupation?

These assholles have gone out of their way to negaate, prevent black votes. Can somebody say that didn't happen? Dickless wants to talk about no-brainers? This is a no-brainer.

Preview is my Fred...
Sorry guys. My left hand is still week, I had a wrist fracture and just got the brace off two weeks ago. I'm still committing horrid typos, and I'm usually very accurate so I forget to preview, I click post out of habit. Mea Culpa.

steady- thanks for that- i had just reread it earlier this afternoon- thought about posting it but then didn't- doubtful that those who are so obviously confused over what century this is would bother to read it- it's easier that way for them

How do the 30% maintain their loyalty? Is blind fealty enough, or is chemical assistance required? Is the RNC passing out a new sedative called effitall?

Does that tell you why?

Posted by monicasmith on October 28, 2006 at 03:51 PM

That's a hell'ava start. And the first peek at "why".

Posted by BlueGirlRedState on October 28, 2006 at 03:45 PM

They're war games. That's the official explanation.

Having demonstrated to the world that you can be stymied by a bunch of Arab resistance fighters, don't you think you'd take any opportunity to strut your stuff?

On the other hand, maybe they're getting ready to take all those troops and their sensitive equipment out of Iraq. Since they've been bringing it in for three years, all the carrier groups might not be enough.

How would you move out the equipment of five major military bases to keep the stuff from being looted when you leave?

Actually, it probably wouldn't hurt to start a rumor that the Navy is coming to rescue the troops and bring them all home for x-mas. Give Rove something to deal with.

I think they are ginning up for Perle Harbor.

"Mistake"

I'm retired General Wes Clark.

Joe Lieberman introduced the resolution authorizing the War in Iraq. That was a mistake.

Joe Lieberman voted for that resolution without asking the tough questions. That was also a mistake.

And now, 3 and a half years into a failing mission in Iraq, Joe Lieberman can't seem to say we should change the course. And that's a REAL mistake.

Re-elect Joe Lieberman? Well, there's a word for it.

"Mistake."

I'm Ned Lamont and I approve this message.
****

And so do we!

monicasmith, I like your imagination. Gives me a thrill just to think of those guys gathering up their stuff and boarding a ship. I did that once in Korea.

UN Official: US Terror Law May Violate International Treaties
Submitted by davidswanson on Sat, 2006-10-28 09:14. Media

By Associated Press

GENEVA -- Washington's new anti-terrorism law could end up violating international treaties protecting detainees, with some provisions denying suspects the right to a fair trial, a key U.N. rights expert said Friday.

Martin Scheinin, U.N.Commission on Human Rights special rapporteur on human rights and counterterrorism, speaks to the media in Ankara, Turkey, Wednesday, Feb. 23, 2006. (AP Photo/Burhan Ozbilici)

Martin Scheinin, the United Nations' expert on protecting human rights in the fight against terrorism, said the Military Commissions Act signed into law earlier this month by U.S. President George W. Bush contains provisions "incompatible" with U.S. obligations to adhere to treaties on human rights and humanitarian law.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14996

No Kidding! And, it's also with the constitution that clearly says that Habeaus Corpus shall not be revoked except in time of rebellion or invasion.

Steady - My father-in-law was a 19 year old marine in Korea, fighing every step of the way from the reservoir to the shore.

Posted by jefro on October 28, 2006 at 02:57 PM

And we believe Scowcroft why?

The goals have been the same for a quarter century at least. GHWB has always been in the mix. The only reason failure never sticks to these people is because they jump ship. Rumsfeld and Cheney both bailed just before Nixon crashed and then rushed back to pick up the pieces for Ford. These people are totally without honor and totally committed to wielding power.

So much for the Civil War and Vietnam, which is where the Republican always go when you ask them how they are going to end the current occupation...what are they going to do about this?:

GAO chief warns economic disaster looms By MATT CRENSON, AP National Writer Sat Oct 28, 12:32 PM

AUSTIN, Texas - David M. Walker sure talks like he's running for office. "This is about the future of our country, our kids and grandkids," the comptroller general of the United States warns a packed hall at Austin's historic Driskill Hotel. "We the people have to rise up to make sure things get changed."

But Walker doesn't want, or need, your vote this November. He already has a job as head of the Government Accountability Office, an investigative arm of Congress that audits and evaluates the performance of the federal government...

From the hustings and the airwaves this campaign season, America's political class can be heard debating Capitol Hill sex scandals, the wisdom of the war in Iraq and which party is tougher on terror. Democrats and Republicans talk of cutting taxes to make life easier for the American people.

What they don't talk about is a dirty little secret everyone in Washington knows, or at least should. The vast majority of economists and budget analysts agree: The ship of state is on a disastrous course, and will founder on the reefs of economic disaster if nothing is done to correct it.

There's a good reason politicians don't like to talk about the nation's long-term fiscal prospects. The subject is short on political theatrics and long on complicated economics, scary graphs and very big numbers. It reveals serious problems and offers no easy solutions. Anybody who wanted to deal with it seriously would have to talk about raising taxes and cutting benefits, nasty nostrums that might doom any candidate who prescribed them.

"There's no sexiness to it," laments Leita Hart-Fanta, an accountant who has just heard Walker's pitch. She suggests recruiting a trusted celebrity — maybe Oprah — to sell fiscal responsibility to the American people.

//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061028/ap_on_go_ot/america_the_bankrupt

BGRS, he and I would be about the same age. I was a "straight leg" (army).

Korea: There was to peace agreement. It was a truce, although ver fragile today, is still in effect. Nothing more than a cease fire.

Posted by pudgyboy on October 28, 2006 at 03:53 PM

Well, maybe if you've been kicked often enough, you might kiss the boot if that meant it wouldn't kick you again.

People who promise to never kick you aren't going to have a lot of traction, if you know that the people who beat you are going to beat them and you to boot.

You see how that works? It's a familiar pattern to victims of spouse abuse when the abuser manages to con the "man."

Whenever Democrats start talking about bi-partisanship and "getting along" they lose credibility. You cannot compromise with evil. Church-going people know that.

Not being a black voter, I'd like to point out that if I were a black voter, Kenneth Blackwell is entirely despicable. Whether or not this piece of shit is ever indicted, he cheated his ass off. I find it hard to believe anybody would say he didn't. The idea that voters don't see a problem with Secretrarys of State that are Campaign coordinators is a fairly obvious problem is just stunning. What is wrong with bvoters?

Get it but good and deserve it, yeah fine. But abject stupidity? So gay marriage actually is more important than distaste for torture. Not my country. If black voters are voting on gay marriage instead of torture, screw black voters. But how bout them white women?

The deal is pretty obvious. Everything the Republicans saisd about invading Iraq is subject to investigation. They lied their asses off. Thousands of hours, and ultimatly, 90 grand, were spent by Ken Starr were spent on some five grand crfrap over watergate.

The entire problem the republicans have is that there will be investigatins of Halliburton. Theyve robbed us all blind. The evidence is monumental. So in the meantime, Republilacns think Deval Patrick might have attracxted white women. Ken Blackwell? You would have to be the most singularly disgusting piece of shit on the facde of the earth.

Posted by SandyH on October 28, 2006 at 04:08 PM

Economists, fortunately or unfortunately don't have a lot of credibility. Partly that's because for their theories to be validated, they always have to jiggle the reality to make the data fit.

One of the big holes in economics is the failure to account for negatives. Instead of deducting the cost of illness and injury from the national accounts, the increasing cost of health care shows up as an increase in economic activity. Whenever something that used to be provided without the transfer of money (like maternal child-care) suddenly gets paid for, that registers as an increase in economic activity. Which is why the economy keeps growing and people are no better off.

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) - Iran has doubled its capacity to enrich uranium by successfully executing the process with a second network of centrifuges, a semiofficial news agency reported Friday, sending a defiant new message to the U.N. Security Council.

Council members are working on a draft resolution that would impose limited sanctions on the Islamic republic because of its refusal to cease enrichment, a process that can produce fuel for a civilian nuclear reactor or fissile material for a warhead.

The Iranian Students News Agency quoted an anonymous official as saying Iran has successfully begun injecting gas into a second network of centrifuges.

"We are injecting gas into the second cascade, which we installed two weeks ago," the official said, according to ISNA.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061027/D8L16U200.html

Meanwhile Mr. President, the real threat to the middle east keeps getting stronger. Bring the troops home soon, rest them up for a couple of years, we know where they're going next.

Divide up Iraqi oil proceeds like we do in Alaska - give a % to each citizen regardless of location/religion. Seems plausible to me.

Posted by SharpElbows on October 28, 2006 at 03:55 PM

If it works in Alaska, then the Eskimos in Iraq will go along with it? If only everyone lived in a pristine land with unimaginable resources and enough space to get away from your troubles and annoying neighbors anytime you wanted to by packing a bag and wondering off into the wilderness.

Steve Forbes is part of the problem not the solution. He's never had to deal with a social conflict or adversity in his life. The canyons and banking houses of Manhattan or not the back allies of Baghdad.

The answer is not in splitting up the spoils, it's in recognizing the rich history of religious and tribal tensions....and the recent American intervention that just made them worse. It began with installing Saddam as torturer supreme back in the 80's.

We didn't have the answer then, and we don't have it now. The Iraqis must figure out what works for them. We don't belong there and need to get out of their way, so they can work on it without all this outside interference.

The last thing Iraqi needs is another bank embezzler like Chalabi dividing revenues among the citizens.

heads up, if we win the house we immediately start hyping our reps to kill this bullshit:
NY TIMES
Businesses Seek New Protection From Litigation

By STEPHEN LABATON
Published: October 29, 2006
WASHINGTON, Oct. 28 — Frustrated with laws and regulations that have made companies and accounting firms more open to lawsuits from investors and the government, corporate America — with the encouragement of the Bush administration — is preparing to fight back.

Now that corruption cases like Enron and WorldCom are falling out of the news, two influential industry groups with close ties to administration officials are hoping to swing the regulatory pendulum in the opposite direction. The groups are drafting proposals to provide broad new protections to corporations and accounting firms from criminal cases brought by federal and state prosecutors as well as a stronger shield against civil lawsuits from investors.

Although the details are still being worked out, the groups’ proposals aim to limit the liability of accounting firms for the work they do on behalf of clients, to force prosecutors to target individual wrongdoers rather than entire companies, and to scale back shareholder lawsuits.

The groups hope to reduce what they see as some burdens imposed by the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, landmark post-Enron legislation adopted in 2002. The law, which placed significant new auditing and governance requirements on companies, gave broad discretion for interpretation to the Securities and Exchange Commission. The groups are also interested in rolling back rules and policies that have been on the books for decades.

To alleviate concerns that the new Congress may not adopt the proposals — regardless of which party holds power in the legislative branch next year — many are being tailored so that they could be adopted through rulemaking by the S.E.C. and enforcement policy changes at the Justice Department.

The proposals will begin to be laid out in public shortly after Election Day, members of the groups said in recent interviews. One of the committees was formed by the United States Chamber of Commerce and until recently was headed by Robert K. Steel.

Korea: There was to peace agreement. It was a truce, although ver fragile today, is still in effect. Nothing more than a cease fire.

Posted by rashlimbo on October 28, 2006 at 04:19 PM

This war stuff is not a John Wayne movie where everybody gets up after the director says "that's a wrap". Cease fires save lives.

the Armistice was signed establishing a cesation of active hostilities and the DMZ at the 38th parallel. That armistice agreement is all that stands between South Korea and millions of refuges steeped in 50 years of Koreanjuche. And Juche makes Marxism look like Montessori.

We don't need to be meddling about in North Korea right now because nobody wants the sodial fallout of millions of refugees with adjustment issues.

Posted by monicasmith on October 28, 2006 at 04:29 PM

The head of the GAO seems to understand something is very wrong for whatever reason the economists want to argue over being its cause.

I agree with you. They have tremendously underestimated the scope of the problem and how numerous costs are being under reported.

Posted by Denimblue on October 28, 2006 at 04:32 PM

Cease fires save lives.

Except when they're premature.

So, you get out the vote. Get out the vote. Georgia voted against Max Cleland. I dsn't think so. I think this was hijacked. Max Cleland was somehow a coward but the awol guy was stay the course? But he wasn't stay the course. Nice valley girl bail. What sort of nonsense are these people talking about. It's a very hard thing for you W believers to admit that the Swift Goat shit was the most despicavle crap in the history of American political campaigns. Really, you people that claim to care about patriotism, you stood by this swift-boat libel. I don't believe you actually thought that. You know Kerry served honorably. You know W did not.

Posted by Denimblue on October 28, 2006 at 04:32 PM

Denim, you are correct in saying that real war is not a John Wayne movie. I know, I've been there, done that. However, the fact remains that Korea is still under a truce (cease fire). Since the truce was implemented, North Korea has developed nukes multiplying the potential for casualties thousands of times. Technically speaking, we are still at war with North Korea. Scarey, isn't it?

Posted by gregg on October 28, 2006 at 04:30 PM

Why don't we do away with the courts entirely. They just get in the way of business, tyrants, and social conservatives.

If nothing else, the Republicans are relentless in getting legislation passed that furthers the interests of their corporate backers. They've done nothing else in the last 13 years.

Oh, I forgot the English as the offical language bill and other trival BS legislation.

Posted by SharpElbows on October 28, 2006 at 04:19 PM

I think the mistake we made was that we thought the military/industrial complex referred to the production of military hardware become predominant in our economy. What it really refers to is the use of military assets to protect industrial interests and enterprise so that they don't actually have to compete on quality and expertise but can use force to get them what they want.

At present, the nuclear industry is a good example. What's on the agenda is establishing a nuclear fuels cartel in which the US and its partners would controll the production and pricing of nuclear fuel, using the excuse that it's too dangerous for other countries to handle.
I mean, they were pretty blatant in their dealing with Iran, telling them that they could have enriched uranium, if they bought it from Russia where the outfit that produces the stuff just happens to be a subsidiary of the sole US provider.
It's my contention that this whole megilla about NK and Iranian nuclear programs, as well as Iraq's ambitions was designed to motivate the American public to accept the construction of new nuclear energy plants and to accept the modernization of our nuclear weapons arsenal with the "waste" plutonium that's left over from the enrichment process. If Iran wanted to make a bomb, it would use the waste plutonium, not bother to go to highly "enriched" uranium. But, we don't want to talk about that because that's exactly what the DoD and the DoE is planning to do with out stuff.
So, Russia and China are not eager to crack down on Iran and North Korea. Well, duh. Those countries are their surrogates--an opportunity to find out what the US is really up to.
Russia, in particular, is not happy because the reprocessing of its aging weapons for fuel that it agreed to is being acquired at a discounted price by the Americans and then sold at a profit on the world market. Nobody likes being scammed.

On the other hand, nobody likes admitting they've been scammed, because that makes them look foolish. So, they wait for their revenge.

Confession That Formed Base of Iraq War was Acquired Under Torture: Journalist
Submitted by davidswanson on Sat, 2006-10-28 09:11. Evidence

By Agence France Presse

An Al-Qaeda terror suspect captured by the United States, who gave evidence of links between Iraq and the terror network, confessed after being tortured, a journalist told the BBC.

Iban al Shakh al Libby told intelligence agents that he was close to Al-Qaeda leaders Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri and "understood an awful lot about the inner workings of Al-Qaeda," former FBI agent Jack Clonan told the broadcaster.

Libby was tortured in an Egyptian prison, according to Stephen Grey, the author of the newly-released book "Ghost Plane" who investigated the secret US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) prisons that housed terror suspects around the world.

US President George W. Bush confirmed the existence of the network of CIA holding facilities overseas during a September 6 speech defending controversial US interrogation practices.

Libby was apparently taken to Cairo, Clonan told the broadcaster, after being captured in Afghanistan in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks in the United States.

"He (Libby) claims he was tortured in jail and that would be routine in Egyptian prisons," Grey said.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14995

So, it turns out that the "confession" that obtained under torture yielded false information to justify a war. Besides proving that this war was started on a foundation of lies, this shows was torture is a useless and immoral information gathering technique.

Oh my favorite part was the people on the convention floor with the Purple Heart band-aids on their faces.

This is the party that claims exclusive providence to the loyalty of the troops in uniform and they behave like that? How utterly disrespectful.

Even if Kerry volunteered for Swift Boat duty when it was safe and it got ugly right after, he didn't whine and bitch and wheedle his way out of it. He sucked it up and did his duty. aWol didn't. His commander said about the incident that earned him the Silver Star that he didn't know whether to Court Martial him for beaching the boat or give him a medal for saving the crew. He went with the latter.

That Kerry. What a coward. He should have protected the skies of Texas by doing blow of a strippers ass in the back of a titty-bar if he wanted any military cred.

IKE ALSO GAVE UP BERLIN to Soviets - CAUSED DEATHS OF THOUSANDS. You could really blame him for the fall of the Iron Curtain too. He alone could have prevented it

Posted by SharpElbows on October 28, 2006 at 04:19 PM

I think there was a commander in Chief named Harry S Truman involved in that.

Republicans for Slave Labor
Submitted by davidswanson on Fri, 2006-10-27 19:14. Elections

By David Swanson

What if there were Republicans in Congress who supported forced abortions and prostitution and slave labor? And what if there were progressive Democrats running against them. Meet Republican Congress Members John Doolittle and Richard Pombo and their challengers in California's 4th and 11th districts Charlie Brown http://www.charliebrownforcongress.org and Jerry McNerney http://www.jerrymcnerney.org .

Now visit the beautiful tropical islands described by disgraced House Majority Leader Tom Delay as "a perfect petri dish of capitalism." What's so perfect about Saipan and the other 13 Northern Mariana Islands? Primarily this: items produced there can carry the label "Made in USA" and be sold in the U.S. without tariffs or quotas, but the scandalously low U.S. minimum wage does not apply, and the pathetically minimal rights of immigrants and workers in the U.S. do not apply. There are no labor unions. Any worker can be terminated and deported at any time for no cause.

The workers, mostly Chinese women, sew clothing for J. Jill, Elie Tahari, Ann Taylor, Liz Claiborne, The Gap, and Ralph Lauren, among others. They pay so much money to obtain work and for shelter and food, that they can labor for a decade and still not pay it back. They serve, therefore, as indentured servants, sharing rooms and beds, lacking health care, and working extra unpaid hours for the reward of being permitted to also work paid overtime. Pregnancy is unacceptable, costs of it not covered, and amateur abortion encouraged.

The island of Saipan does great business in prostitution for Asian businessmen and American soldiers. Approximately 90 percent of the prostitutes are former Chinese garment workers. Others had been recruited for jobs like waitressing but were forced into prostitution instead.

Over the past decade, 29 bills in Congress have sought to apply a minimum wage standard and/or immigration law to the Mariana Islands or to deny use of "Made in USA" to items produced there. Every one of these bills has failed. Some have won support in the Senate but been blocked by the House Resources Committee. Others have won the support of a majority of House Members but still been killed in that same committee.

Guess who earned $11 million in fees from the Marianas government and garment manufacturers? A fellow by the name of Jack Abramoff.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14988

This is Republican "values" at work!

Ain't that hard to manipulate numbers if you know what you are doing (example: just change the definition of unemployment).

Bingo. That's exactly the kind of BS that has been going on for the past decade or more. If you change the definition of everything, how do we know what their figures mean?

Reports Shed Light on Ties Between Weldon, Businesses
By Greg Gordon
McClatchy Newspapers

Friday 27 October 2006

Pennsylvania congressman Curt Weldon, under investigation for allegedly trading his influence to get lobbying business for one of his daughters, also has helped corporations that have hired another daughter, a friend and some of his former aides.

Federal Election Commission reports show that within months of Weldon's advocacy on their behalf, three of these firms and their executives gave more than $95,000 in political contributions to the 10-term Republican.

Most of those donations were made in 2001 and 2002 to an obscure "soft money" account that helped foot unspecified travel expenses for Weldon and his top aide, according to the FEC filings.

Weldon's financial and lobbying relationships helped cement his rise to power as the vice chairman of the House Armed Services and Homeland Security committees, but now they've drawn the FBI's attention as part of a Justice Department criminal investigation into possible congressional corruption.

Weldon, who's up for re-election on Nov. 7, has denied any wrongdoing and charged that the FBI investigation is part of a left-wing conspiracy. He's expressed confidence that he will be cleared. His lawyer, William Winning of Philadelphia, did not respond to phone messages for comment.

It's often difficult to tell where Weldon's official business ends and his family's and friends' personal business begins:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/102806D.shtml

Weldon is a fine example of Republican-ism - corrupt to the core.

When Ike was President we had the Berlin Airlift which saved Berlin.

Ruining America
By Joe Galloway
Military.com

Thursday 26 October 2006

If President George Bush's hasty news conference on Iraq this week was the Republican October Surprise - unveiling some sudden presidential flexibility after three and a half years of stubbornly staying a losing course - it didn't work.

With the midterm elections now days away, it smacked more of a change in semantics than a serious change in the direction of a war that seems to be spiraling out of control.

"Benchmark" is the new White House buzzword. We're not setting a "timetable" for the withdrawal of America's 147,000 troops in Iraq. We're not putting any real heat on Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. No cutting and running for us.

And, yes, the president has full faith and confidence in the chief architect of the war in Iraq, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld. You're doing a heckuva job, Rummy. Never mind that your approval rating is at 12 percent among the American people, Don. The Decider puts you at 110 percent.

So we're going to stay put in Iraq; going, in fact, to stay the course all the way to victory. We aren't going to be drawing down our troops, who are square in the middle of a burgeoning Iraqi civil war. In fact, we might even send more troops over there if the president can find any to send from an Army and Marine Corps already stretched so thin that you can read your morning paper through them.

The president says that there'll be tough fighting to come, which is hardly news to a military that's already suffered more than 2,800 killed and 22,000 wounded; a military so ground down that it won't be able to man the next annual deployments without once again reaching out and activating thousands of Army National Guard and Reserve troops that have maxed out their active duty availability.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/102806A.shtml

So what does Bush and his Republican rubber stamps intend to do about Iraq? Answer - nothing but stay the course! They may not use that phrase now until election day but the policy is nothing but stay the course.

What does Ike have to do with Iraq or anything else going on today. Has Bush been trying to channel him at one of Nancy Reagan's seances?

There are 2 major issues that our Democratic candidate's are not using effectively, they are.

The National debt. Our children should be screaming at their parents to vote away the Republicans who have landed our kids in so much debt, they and our grandchildren will be paying off for this generations national debt for many, many years to come. This is an effective response to the better economy argument.

Communications. Why won't the administration talk to the Iranians and the North Koreans. It's just common sense that most of the problems in this world are the result of bad or no communications. Lets talk to all of our adversaries and keep talking and negotiating. Talk is a lot cheaper than all of the other options.

What does Ike have to do with Iraq or anything else going on today.
****

Sandy,

Absolutely nothing!

could somebody actually present the slightest clue that the pretzeldent isnt an idiot?

No. You can't. Proof: When he wanted to present some sort of proof: This dickheade said: We weren't ever cut annd run." Dumbass is relying on that valley-girl syntax'. Like fer sure.' We werem't 'ever cut aned run'. I'd say he's an idiot. Please tell me how I'm not right. He has not got a clue. Stay the course? Well the nit has said that a couple of hundred times. Those are absolute for sure. Look. He's so stupid there's no way. He says this shit all the time and he's an absolute moron, If somebody wants to actually claim that Hw didn't dodge the congress, if anybody wants to claim that democrats actually approved his bullshit, we'll go to the wall. That didn't happen. The bill said he had to come back to the congress. He didn't. Somebody want to say he didn't promise to come baack to the congress and he sure as shit didn't? Anybody want to say that?

Report Says Iraq Contractor Is Hiding Data From US
By James Glanz and Floyd Norris
The New York Times

Saturday 28 October 2006

A Halliburton subsidiary that has been subjected to numerous investigations for billions of dollars of contracts it has received for work in Iraq has systematically misused federal rules to withhold basic information on its practices from American officials, a federal oversight agency said yesterday.

The contracts awarded to the company, KBR, formerly named Kellogg Brown & Root, are for housing, food, fuel and other necessities to American troops and government officials in Iraq, and for restoring that country's crucial oil infrastructure. The contracts total about $20 billion.

The oversight agency, the Office of the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, said KBR refused to disclose information as basic as how many people are fed each day in its dining facilities and how many gallons of fuel are delivered to foreign embassies in Iraq, claiming that the data was proprietary, meaning it would unfairly help its business competitors.

Although KBR has been subjected to a growing number of specific investigations and paid substantial fines, this marks the first time the federal government has weighed in and accused it of systematically engaging in a practice aimed at veiling its business practices in Iraq.

The allegations come at a critical time for the company, as Halliburton is attempting to spin off the subsidiary. And in July, the Army announced that it would terminate KBR's largest contract with the government, and the company says that it will compete to regain some of that business when the government calls for new bids.

Proprietary information is protected by the so-called federal acquisition regulations, known as FAR. But the agency said KBR routinely stamped nearly all of the data it collects on its work as proprietary, impeding not only the investigations into the company's activities but also things as simple as managerial oversight of the work.

"The use of proprietary data markings on reports and information submitted by KBR to the governm