They should pay the price for their robo-calls in 2006.

Ha Ha Ha !

Cha Ching! Cha Ching!

$$$$$$

To think that a candidate for high office would stoop so low in order to win and what do we call him now? Senator Sununu. This win at any costs or method actually causes future voter suppression. In my state, the Republican party made computer calls giving the clear impression that it was the Democratic candidate for Congress calling. Many of these calls were made at one or two o'clock in the morning. A voter in an adjoining county received seven calls in the middle of the night. How low can you get!

Paying the price?
telemarketing, and mass advertising and etc, really does effect people. But what perhaps needs to be realised, is what the Liberals here have been doing. Chapman for example, is now a party name everywhere. Ok, there was a Ham factory same name Unley until the 70s. But in Birmingham. No, sorry. I have read a book, which perhaps explains what they do, as there appears no rationality or logic to any of it. Everything is the same. 1=2=3=4=5, or green=white=blue=red=black.
I'm going to have a beer. And please don't buy my latest book written in the 87/88 period, as linked above. Send me an email though? If you listen to that prick Bob Dylan etc watch movies etc, you'll this book, which is complete junk, was used by them and it affected your political processes. I'm sorry. I never intended for anyone to "publish it" etc. I used to write mss every couple months. Mostly threw them away. But someone assumed my identity in 1981 or 1982 linked to media here. They then "placed" their contacts in UK BBC, German TV, and even NBC building. like the mad cow disease? oh it's srimad bhavatam, hare krishna, all 55 volumes so that niece could visit UK while the Biblical smell of burning meat flesh was in the air, and she can be South African, apartheid and the "blacks" are also just cows with etc. They had experience in Africa and south africa and have psychological ways and means to defeat any potential trouble sources and etc. Why? Oh I bought Mahabaratta in 3 volumes silver cover, and French media found out and did a ten hour Tv special called Maharnarrata. French woman moved in next door with Professor Maddern, also madder oil and heart transplants from South Africa whcih was really only Barnard street, here, North Adelaide, etc etc.http://www.heatherjeane.cominfo@heatherjeane.com

Ordinay,

You wouldn't be talking about the Kleeb race in the 3rd CD? I hope Scott sues the panties off the GOP!! I would hope that if they continue to do this that a judge would render the results of any elcted official null and void!

As long as the republicans can pay a small fine and keep their titles they will continue to play these silly games.

The latest report is that the suit has been settled but the particulars are not yet available.

It isn't possible for a judge to call an election nul and void because of what a third party does.
Indeed, the manner in which citizens can be assured that their elections are fair and square and the ballots are counted as cast has not really been addressed. As long as a person is a candidate, s/he has no standing to make any claim on the ballots cast in an election and even after a person is certified as an office holder and sworn in, he or she has no standing to complain.
A person who is fraudulently denied an office might have a case, but who's going to be held responsible? Surely not the person who certifies the election results. Not the people who produce the ballot count. None of them are culpable unless it can be proved that their actions were intentionally fraudulent and designed to defraud a particular candidate.
So, since it's effectively impossible to correct election fraud after the fact, we have to make sure that fraud is not possible going in. If there's ever a case for pre-emption, this is it.

NEW OPEN THREAD SITE UNTIL A NEW OPEN THREAD OPENS.

so once again we find the republicans undercutting legitimate government operations in order to screw poor people and to slowly kill off any semblence of a social fabric in this country. ny times editorial 12-2-06:

Editorial
Kafka and Katrina
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Published: December 2, 2006
One of the many victims of Hurricane Katrina may turn out to be the hospitality that American cities, particularly Houston, showed to people fleeing the storm. Thanks largely to the Bush administration’s catastrophic handling of the relocation crisis, Houston endured much more civic strain than it should have in caring for the tens of thousands of Louisianans who landed on its doorstep.

The administration’s mishandling of the crisis has often looked like a calculated attempt to discourage displaced people from seeking housing aid, even if it means leaving them vulnerable to homelessness. A federal district court judge implied as much this week, when he found that the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s aid application process was so convoluted and confusing as to be unconstitutional — and likened it to something out of a horror story by Kafka.

Judge Richard Leon ruled that FEMA had unconstitutionally denied housing aid to thousands of residents who were displaced by hurricanes Katrina and Rita. He ordered the government to resume payments immediately, pointing to blind alleys and contradictory information that often led vulnerable families to lose aid without understanding why or having reasonable recourse to appeal.

In Houston, people are at least being housed now in apartments rather than remote trailer camps where other displaced Louisianans have now been trapped for more than a year . But throughout this saga, FEMA has whipsawed the survivors and their host communities with unpredictable policy changes that have hindered the resettlement process and kept everyone on edge. Despite those obstacles, many have managed to get on their feet.

But Houston must still worry about impoverished and hard-to-employ refugees who represent an enormous burden in health care, law enforcement and education costs. City officials also say that the federal government has been unpredictably late and tightfisted with badly needed aid.

The administration made its most disastrous misstep when it failed to enlist the Department of Housing and Urban Development, which was created to deal with just these kinds of situations. If the administration had provided Section 8 housing vouchers through HUD, families could have been directed to affordable housing all over the country. No one city would have been asked to absorb tens of thousands of people.

Congress needs to make sure that its housing application process is rendered intelligible. But it needs to go much further. It has to make sure that the survivors who qualify are given aid through programs like Section 8 that allow them to pick up their lives quickly, and that there will be no more Houstons in the American history of disaster response.

I'am here!

So, there seems to be two camps emerging (amongst us bloggers at least).

1) Force Bush to withdraw or at least re-deploy to a safer area by limiting the money.

2) Force Bush to train the Iraqi military faster.

The keyword in both camps is "force". How do you force a lunatic to do anything? Maybe a coup is a good idea after all (just kidding - no need to send in Abu Gonzalez).

A federal district court judge implied as much this week, when he found that the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s aid application process was so convoluted and confusing as to be unconstitutional — and likened it to something out of a horror story by Kafka.
****

That could be said about the entire reign of King Bush .. a horrot show.

hey rjsnj, good to see my idea took root. i don't think bush will be forced into anything. i think he is prepared to destroy the republican party along with a big chunk of the middle east. americans need to learn that when you give enormous power to nasty, belligerent assholes the whole world pays for a long, long time. it's a mistake we can never make again.

i don't think bush will be forced into anything. i think he is prepared to destroy the republican party along with a big chunk of the middle east.
****

hey gregg, I suspect the same which is why I am reluctant to compromise with Bush. History already shows that he'll double cross us ... he did so with NCLB. So, I am still leaning toward camp #1 and hoping that the Pentagon will simply override him (sounds like a mutiny eh ...).

You may be quite right that nothing will get done. I would rather that than buying into a bad idea!

I would add to the list that Bush is prepared to destroy the economy as well. If we end up spending what the Pentagon is asking for I believe a panic may occur in the dollar. Say hello to the IMF as it gets to run our economy for the next twenty five years.

You know, gregg, I think we need to take these web based tools seriously and give them the funding they deserve. This site is obviously of interest to the DNC but it doesn't appear to get the attention it requires. The problem is the same as that which causes the training problems Ranger just mentioned.

Those in the position to make staffing decisions often wait to see what happens before deciding whether or not a particular project should be fully supported. Sadly, it is often too late to achieve the desired results later.

I've got to be honest with you all. I had in mind the complacency, to a sense, of Iraq when we first began operations in 1990. It was obvious to me that others had the same in mind, all one had to do is read articles printed in Newsweek and Time to figure it out. The fact that weapons began to be traded to Iran via Israel at the same time as articles began illustrating the danger of Saddam Hussein's military and arsenal were proof enough for me. That being said, the situation was not handled appropriately by this administration.

Operations such as this require a great deal of planning and networking up front and followthrough to the end. This administration and those who it brought to the forefront disregarded that planning and networking because they assumed that it would be simple to finish the task. They thought this because they had failed to thoroughly investigate the issue, they instead took a quick glance and went for it.

My intensions were realistic and involved using predetermined relationships to our advantage. The biggest problem I've seen with this group is that they only know how to take advantage of others, without ever forming cooperatives that help both parties. You can't get something for nothing in this world, but that group is sure as hell willing to try so long as they can use someone elses money and life.

This site is obviously of interest to the DNC but it doesn't appear to get the attention it requires.
****

Actually marine it may be of more interest than you suspect. During the 2004 election, the Kerry people "mined" the comments to identify high priority issues. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the DNC does the same.

But, it is silly not to provide one new thread each day.

There must be other priorities right now. Hopefully, they'll pay a bit more attention to the blog. We are a microcosm of the electorate.

The fact that weapons began to be traded to Iran via Israel at the same time as articles began illustrating the danger of Saddam Hussein's military and arsenal were proof enough for me.
***

And yet we provided Hussein with chemical weapons to use against Iran and traded arms to Iran for money to fund the Contras. Oh what a tangled web we weave in the world. I prefer a more forthright approach as advocated by Jefferson. We meddle way too much.

I agree, rjsnj, that's what I had expected as well. You simply can not win the support of people if you are keeping a secret your desire for such support. That's what pissed me off most about this group, they didn't have the guts to come right out and say what it is that they wanted. They may have actually gotten what they wanted had they dared.

You simply can not win the support of people if you are keeping a secret your desire for such support.
****

marine, I sometimes wonder if the only objective is to make the corporations wealthy.

We have one helluva of a fight on our hands. Ona personal level, it's now more difficult than ever before. Corzine's statement has already created ripples through the small community of activists I associate with in central NJ. Many are going to wonder why did we work so hard to elect Menendez when our governor submarines his main argument for being elected - namely, to end the war in one year's time. After all, Menendez was Corzine's choice to replace him. It's completely bizarre but then NJ politics tends to be that way. Don't get involved if you can't stand the constant friction.

Look at freekin' Saddam Hussein. We captured the guy and destroyed his military in a matter of days. Since then we haven't had a problem with his supporters because they were a minority to begin with. Instead, we've had trouble with those who wanted to fill the void left when Saddam and his forces were removed.

This was all stupid all the time. A minority is leading the nation and instead of dealing with that minority until the obvious overthrow of that government occurs and you are forced to deal with a mightier majority power, the president decides to take over the task of governing that nation. It was obvious that those persecuted under Saddam Hussein would respond as they have, that's why 70 military officers decided in 1998's evaluation of a full scale invasion of Iraq that a force of at least 400,000 would be required. This number was already reduced significantly from prior estimates and was allowed to remain only because it was accompanied by a statement concluding that 400,000 may not be enough to keep peace in Iraq.

Only fools rush in.

It was obvious that those persecuted under Saddam Hussein would respond as they have, that's why 70 military officers decided in 1998's evaluation of a full scale invasion of Iraq that a force of at least 400,000 would be required.
****

I agree. By the way, I admit for the record that I bought into Bush's lies about WMD. Shame on me! That's why I don't trust the man at all. I also feel a bit guilty about the war. Not that I was ever enthusiatic about it but I did buy into Bush's lies on WMD. At the time, I just couldn't believe any president would lie about such a thing. Naive huh? It's one reason why I despise the man so much and can't conceive of any bipartsianship deal with such a despicable person.

marine, i am not sure what objective the dnc has for this blog...the open thread one. for me it has served multiple purposes...to socialize as you might in a pup while waiting for the rain to let up, to gather information about a variety of news items from all over, to get a sense of what people in other parts of the country are thinking, to get ideas on how to take action politically and so on. but these are objectives that i have formed for myself...it is unclear to me what the dnc intends and i think it may be unclear to them as well.

as for training i spent a large part of my career as a trainer and trainer of trainers. not in the military but in government organizations that provided a variety of social services both institutional and community based. what i know about training is that it takes planning, again clear measurable objectives, methods and means of evaluation. it is best done by using a combination of classroom work and WELL SUPERVISED on the job training. so if the objective is to learn how to set up a road block and use it to make sure insurgents don't pass there is really alot of work that needs to be done to clarify the behavioral part of the job, to provide the classroom theory and simulation to get the main concepts across, and then you need experienced staff who can both do and teach to take trainees thru the steps in the real world situation, slowly turning over more and more responsibility to the trainees as they master the components of the overall task. i have no doubt the military has lots of people who know how to do this and in fact has been doing this for hundreds of years.

two things i heard about the iraq war that caused concern regarding the way we are operating there:

1. when the dod or dos recommended 6,000 trainers be sent to iraq to train their security forces in 03 bush sent bernard kerick...thats it, one corrupt guy. a very bad start.

2. since 9/11 the cia has only been able to recruit or train 40 arabic speaking agents. this leads me to assume the military is probably having the same issue and therefore alot of the training we may be doing in iraq may be failing in the most basic communication area.

i think the cavalier attitude that rummy and bush and cheney brought to this endevor must have an impact on how everyone up and down the chain functions...if the top dog doesn't care about chaos what is the average soldier to make of things?

rambling a bit here but i am basically talking about competent leadership versus incompetent leadership of which quality training versus ineffective training is a part.

That's one thing that I stopped believing in back in the 90's. It was in my interest to pay close attention to Iraq and so I noticed something was wrong when UN inspectors, some American, began to resign their positions before making it known that they did not believe that WMD were present in Iraq. I was beside myself with anger and grief when this nation invaded Iraq because I knew that every goal they meant to accomplish in that manner could be accomplished more quickly through diplomacy while maintaining sanctions and no-fly zones.

i think the cavalier attitude that rummy and bush and cheney brought to this endevor must have an impact on how everyone up and down the chain functions...if the top dog doesn't care about chaos what is the average soldier to make of things?
****

gregg, you are making alot of sense. This is exactly why I think to myself - what makes us think we can broker a deal with these people?
I don't think Bush/Cheney/Rummy ever intended to turn Iraq over to the Iraqi people. That's why they had no plan to train anyone. That's why Bremer's first actions was:

1) To fire all senior Iraqi officials - the ones who understood the structure of Iraqi society.

2) Disbanded the Iraqi military.

They wanted a weak Iraq that would be governed by US forces for the forseeable future.

Okay, so where does that leave us? In the same dilemna about how to proceed. I am still of the mind that our strongest weapons are:

1) Oversight
2) Money

We should use both to force a confrontation with Bush and the Republicans. I am ready for a fight with them! I don't reconciliation as a possibility.

I understand Ranger's concerns that the troops may be hurt if we cut the money off. On the hand, they may be hurt worst if we don't.

Asa first step, let's get the Pentagon to operate on a budget. No more supplementals.

As for Mr. Corzine, he hasn't heard the last from this group of central NJ folks. NJDFA will be gearing up to give him an earful.

wow! speaking of incompetents here is an article from tomorrow's nytimes that will blow your minds:

Rumsfeld Memo Proposed ‘Major Adjustment’ in Iraq

By MICHAEL R. GORDON and DAVID S. CLOUD
Published: December 3, 2006
WASHINGTON, Dec. 2 — Two days before he resigned as defense secretary, Donald H. Rumsfeld submitted a classified memo to the White House that acknowledged that the Bush administration’s strategy in Iraq was not working and called for a major course correction.

“In my view it is time for a major adjustment,” wrote Mr. Rumsfeld, who has been a symbol of a dogged stay-the-course policy. “Clearly, what U.S. forces are currently doing in Iraq is not working well enough or fast enough.”

Nor did Mr. Rumsfeld seem confident that the administration would readily develop an effective alternative. To limit the political fallout from shifting course he suggested the administration consider a campaign to lower public expectations.

“Announce that whatever new approach the U.S. decides on, the U.S. is doing so on a trial basis,” he wrote. “This will give us the ability to readjust and move to another course, if necessary, and therefore not ‘lose.’ ”

“Recast the U.S. military mission and the U.S. goals (how we talk about them) — go minimalist,” he added. Mr. Rumsfeld’s memo suggests frustration with the pace of turning over responsibility to the Iraqi authorities; in fact, the memo calls for examination of ideas that roughly parallel troop withdrawal proposals presented by some of the White House’s sharpest Democratic critics.

rummy the minimalist

bbl.

It was in my interest to pay close attention to Iraq and so I noticed something was wrong when UN inspectors, some American, began to resign their positions before making it known that they did not believe that WMD were present in Iraq.
****

I know. I should have seen it as well. Let's just say I have become much more cynical and cautious now. I now realize that the media is populated with pathological liars. These people continually put down Scott Ritter and David Kay as they desparately tried to tell us that there is no WMD. Shame on me for not listening and thinking that Hussein had something hidden. But shame on the president for lying about it and shame on the Congress and media for not doing their jobs. I simply won't be fooled again by Bush. That's why it will take alot and I A-LOT to ever convince me that he is serious about acting in a bipartisian manner. The man is a POS in my book.

Gregg, I spent a lot of time training Marines and preparing to train Marines for combat and a variety of other purposes. You are absolutely correct when you say that a great deal of planning is required, heck the trainer must be trained before the training can even begin and that can't happen until objectives and lesson plans are made. This can all be revamped as time goes on, but you have to start with something.

Communication is always key, and it is a difficult thing to control even when the same basic language is being spoken. I'm certain that the movement confusing Muslim with terrorist is to blame for these shortcomings. Would you want to learn about a culture and language just to open yourself to the ridicule of your people every time you decided to speak about your knowledge?

Diplomacy is meant to keep many channels open, especially during time of war. Without diplomacy we can not effectively differentiate between enemy and potential enemy and friend or even nuetral persons. It is very important that we do not treat these categories as one, less we find ourselves fighting a united front when we could instead have fought one divided.

I'm not sure that Clinton or Bush believed that Hussein wasn't more heavily armed than he was. They suspected that he'd had more contact with other nations, like Russia, than he had and assumed that he must have gotten some weapons that they did not know about. This doesn't make up for the lies told to get us into Iraq, however. It is painfully obvious that some enormous lies were told in an effort to get us into that country.

A few, I am sure purposefully deceived the American people. The rest were simply lazy and assumed that what they were being told was true. Most members of the media fall into this category.

By the way, I don't see the approaches of budgeting the iccupation and accelerating the training as being a dichotomy. If we reduce combat operations and concentrate on training, the occupation's cost will be reduced and our footprint can be made smaller.

We have to be willing to take some chances. Inaction is now as risky as action.

By the way, The Nativity Story promotes wearing of the Burqa. It couldn't be that bad if Mary, mother of Christ, wore one now could it?

iccupation
****

occupation of course.

Well, it's time for a break. I am definitely bent out of shape over Corzine. Wonder how Robert Menendez feels right now? I would bet he isn't too happy with Corzine right now. I think our politicos should learn that there is no value in undermining each other ... I thought Dems finally figured out that circular firing squads are a bad idea. Maybe not!

By the way, I don't see the approaches of budgeting the iccupation and accelerating the training as being a dichotomy. If we reduce combat operations and concentrate on training, the occupation's cost will be reduced and our footprint can be made smaller.

We have to be willing to take some chances. Inaction is now as risky as action.

Posted by rjsnj on December 2, 2006 at 06:06 PM

Rjsnj, look at it this way. Our current approach has caused an enormous loss of life. Whatever we do from this point on is going to result in further loss of life. What we need to focus on then is reducing that loss of life. As far as Iraqi numbers go, losses are at about the highest daily average that they have ever been.

Because so many Iraqis become victims of this war daily, it can be concluded that our current approach is not just ineffective but may also be generating casualties. We can't put our troops everywhere at once and so we will never prevent Iraqis from killing one another. Where we are, the killings occur in the greatest numbers, Baghdad. These murders are committed by men who want to send U.S. citizens a message, on this note the President was correct, but it is not correct to suggest that they will not decide to send the same message in less fortifide parts of Iraq should more American forces move into Baghdad, or that those American forcess would even be able to prevent attacks which occur there if their numbers were greater.

Have a nice night. I'm going to take off too.

Bush is such a douche bag!

Posted by ranger995 on December 2, 2006 at 03:35

Hi ranger!

this is so unfair to douche bags!

anybody home?

I am. I always am. I am ALWAYS lurking.

Here's something to chew on:

Rumsfeld: "It is time for a major adjustment"
by MissLaura
Sat Dec 02, 2006 at 04:00:37 PM PST

The New York Times has a memo, written by Donald Rumsfeld just two days before his resignation, in which Rumsfeld calls for changes in U.S. policy and strategies in Iraq.

"In my view it is time for a major adjustment," wrote Mr. Rumsfeld, who has been a symbol of a dogged stay-the-course policy. "Clearly, what U.S. forces are currently doing in Iraq is not working well enough or fast enough."

Nor did Mr. Rumsfeld seem confident that the administration would readily develop an effective alternative. To limit the political fallout from shifting course he suggested the administration consider a campaign to lower public expectations.

"Announce that whatever new approach the U.S. decides on, the U.S. is doing so on a trial basis," he wrote. "This will give us the ability to readjust and move to another course, if necessary, and therefore not ‘lose.’ "

****

This is all garbage. This so called war is a big lie. I thought about our options and now I am even more convonced that there is no option other than cutting off the money. Give the Pentagon a budget to train the Iraqi for the next year and then get the flock out.

I too lurk, DPD and Liz

n fade

Another liar resigns:

Senior Pentagon Official Stephen Cambone to Resign
Submitted by davidswanson on Sat, 2006-12-02 20:27. Media

From www.truthout.org

Editor's Note: The first story below is a brief report by Reuters stating simply that "Senior Pentagon Official Stephen Cambone Will Resign." There is far more, however, to the story. The second piece, an essay excerpted from Jeffrey St. Clair's new book, Grand Theft Pentagon, lays out in chilling detail who Stephen Cambone is and has been. Highly recommended reading. - ma/TO.

Also see below:
US: The Secret World of Stephen Cambone: Rumsfeld's Enforcer •

Senior Pentagon Official Stephen Cambone to Resign
Reuters

Friday 01 December 2006

Washington - Stephen Cambone, the U.S. Defense Department's top intelligence official and a close aide to outgoing Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, will resign on December 31, the Pentagon said on Friday.

Cambone has served as a senior aide to Rumsfeld since the start of the Bush administration in January 2001, and has held his current post, undersecretary for intelligence, since March 2003.

Rumsfeld's resignation was announced the day after the Republican defeat in the November 7 midterm elections. Rumsfeld will remain until his successor is confirmed. Former CIA Director Robert Gates has been nominated to fill that job.

it would be nice if the blog could keep and post a running acount of how many lurkers are a lurking at any moment.

and it is comforting knowing that dpd is always keeping the popcorn machine going in the lobby.

When you see this war/occupationfor what it is and what it has been intended to be from the start it is obvious it is on schedule and according to plan: protracted low grade war for control of oil and for profit from the industrial conspiritors. There is no quick victory intent. No profit in that.

Geez ... Nir Rosen is on CNN. He thinks there could be a regional civil war. If you are not familar with Nir he is an independent journalist who has been in Iraq since the start of this debacle:

http://www.nirrosen.com/blog/

In the Belly of the Green Bird
0 Comments Published by nirrosen May 12th, 2006 in Articles.

In the Belly of the Green Bird is a searing report, unlike any other book about the American experience in Iraq. Almost everything covered in the Western media has been at least one or two steps removed from the minds and acts of the people who will determine the future of Iraq. Some of them are peaceful, some are violent. Some of them hate one another with the intensity of ancient enemies. The depth of discord between Sunnis and Shias is difficult to fathom without listening to them. Their anti-Americanism is much more recent, but not much less intense. The divisions within this cobbled-together country, much like those within Yugoslavia after Tito, are simply too intense to contain.

****

Damned neocon liars got us into a pickle. We must get the countries around Iraq involved. That and rapidly train their military. Then, we must redeploy out of there.

yes,gregg...it would

dpd--did you see my thanx for the thanxgiving cooking tips?

what else ya got?

Bush said, much too quickly, after 9/11: "...this will be a long war...".

Bush said, much too quickly, after 9/11: "...this will be a long war...".

****

salutethedems, that statement always creeped me out. It was as if the miserable SOB's were happy that they would a never ending war.

Interesting take on the demonstrators in Lebanon, from the Lebanese Bloggers

The Saudis are nervous.

Dozens killed in Baghdad car bombings
At least 90 people were killed and about 40 wounded when explosives in three parked cars went off in a busy shopping district of central Baghdad on Saturday, security officials said.
Full Story:

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/12/02/iraq.html

Senator Barbara Boxer:
Tell President Bush to Change Course in Iraq
Over the nearly four years since our invasion, I have watched with frustration as President Bush has stubbornly refused to change course, even as our disastrous policy has sent us on a downward spiral into chaos in Iraq.

It's time for a change in Iraq. The American people certainly think so: according to a Pew Research Poll conducted earlier this month, 56 percent of the American people think the U.S. should set a timetable for withdrawing troops from Iraq.

Tell President Bush that the American people demand change in Iraq. Sign the petition now!

http://ga4.org/campaign/change_in_iraq

Last of Italian troops return from Iraq to Rome
Submitted by davidswanson on Sat, 2006-12-02 20:04. Media

By Associated Press

ROME: The last of Italy's troops in Iraq returned to Rome on Saturday, a few weeks earlier than the date promised by Italian Premier Romano Prodi.

An Italian air force jet brought back the few soldiers of what was once a 3,000-troop mission. Italy at one point was Washington's second largest coalition partner in Iraq, after Britain, during reconstruction efforts after Saddam Hussein was ousted.

Prodi's successful campaign to win the premiership last spring included a pledge to bring Italy's troops home from Iraq by the end of the year. His election rival, Silvio Berlusconi, had already begun withdrawing troops before he left office.

Berlusconi sent the troops in 2003 despite fierce domestic opposition to the war in Iraq because he was a staunch ally of U.S. President George W. Bush.

"We were able to speed up the timetable of withdrawal by three weeks thanks to the capability and professionalism of our army," Prodi said at a small ceremony at Ciampino airport in Rome.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/16035

Well, Italy is now out. The UK won't be far behind.

That statment confirmed to me that they knew something was going to happen to ignite their war. Put all the weird things together and the picture is clear. Where are the adults of this world. How long are we going to let this go untold?

rjsnj

Code Pink has an action planned for Monday, Dec 4th to call our representatives to end this war.

That statment confirmed to me that they knew something was going to happen to ignite their war. Put all the weird things together and the picture is clear. Where are the adults of this world. How long are we going to let this go untold?
****

I don't know salutethedems but right now I feel more like punching the Dems than saluting them.
I blame the neocons for starting this mess but I don't see very many Dems willing to take a tough stand on this war (with the exception of the Out Of Iraq caucus of course - Dennis Kucinich, Maxine Waters, etc... if it wasn;t for them and Dr. Dean I would ditch the Dems).

So Give Em Hell Harry says that we won;t limit or cut of funding for the war. So them how does it ever end?

"We're not going to do anything to limit funding or cut off funds," says Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

And now my anti-war governor Corzine is criticizing the anti-war newlu elected Senator Robert Menendez for demanding a timetable to end the war. He even wants us to be prepared to send in more NJ national guard.

Seems to me like the Dems have already capitulated to Bush's bully tactics.

Code Pink has an action planned for Monday, Dec 4th to call our representatives to end this war.
****

fade, we need to get busy. When anti-war activists asked me what will we do after electing the Dems and still nothing improves, I said we'll do what needs to be done. If that means abandoning politics and shifting to direct action then so be it.

gregg, got your ripple wine?

rj,

there will be a major action January 27th, i think...we just need to keep doing...

or as malloy says, the four boxes...

How long are we going to let this go untold?

Posted by salutetheDems on December 2, 2006 at 07:58 PM

with Baker's team, for the duration...the Iraq study group is covering up the lumps in the sandbox

there will be a major action January 27th, i think...we just need to keep doing...

or as malloy says, the four boxes...
***

fade, I agree! We need to keep the heat on both the Republicans and the Democrats. People who assume that a Democratic victory in 2006 means an end to the war are just wrong. All the indications are there that the Dems will but the ISG conclusions lock, stock and barrel. Meaning they will not cut off the funding, they will continue to stay in Iraq and may even increase troop levels. In addition, there will be no timetable.

I know that won;t fly with the Out Of Iraq Now caucus but they still don't have enough votes to make anything happen by themselves.

Voters will be scratching their heads by 2008. Hey, didn't I push a button fdr a Dem to end the war ... what happened? They triangulated my friend, they triangulated.

with Baker's team, for the duration...the Iraq study group is covering up the lumps in the sandbox
****

fade, that's all they are doing ... giving junior a chance to get out of dodge and hide out in Paraguay.

have you heard from PamB? i miss that gal...if i were in her shoes, i'd still be soooooo pissed.

look at what the "Democrats" did to Lamont and the people who chose him to represent them.

this must stop. it will take a few more "surprises" but as long as we have this communication tool, the old way of doing business won't work for them.

in the meantime, it does get terribly frustrating.

have you heard from PamB? i miss that gal...if i were in her shoes, i'd still be soooooo pissed.
****

No fade, I haven't got any emails from her either.

I would be pissed. In fact, right now I am pissed at the Dems. I know what's going on. They have decided not to be confrontational on the war. They are triangulating. They think a middle position can be adopted where they will somehow run the war effort better than the Pugs. That wasn't the message of the 2006 election. The message was to get out of Iraq within one year.

No wonder they abandoned Ned and instead stuck with the weasel Lieberman. I think the Dems used anti-war Dem activists just to get elected. They pretended to be for ending the war quickly but weaseled out on this ISG. They'll claim that it's a bipartsianship group and has ideas on changing the course. What ideas? Increase troop levels, continue to stay there with no timetable. It's the same old garbage.

Why don't these people learn history when they attend Harvard and Yale? There are things that you can learn from history that will give you an advantage when deciding a course of action for our nation.

I've known leaders of two different schools, those who get to know a command before changing things and those who change everything before getting to know the command. Those who get to know the command before issuing orders always leave commands better off than they were to start with.

The group of leaders we have did not study closely the 'command' before issuing orders. This is nothing new though. Our political leaders have typically relied upon others to inform them of the specifics that they did not have the time to learn as they were focused on a bigger picture. This group simply forgot to seek out individuals with the knowledge and perspective that they lack.

Every time I moved into a new command the first thing I did is recon work. I had to feel my way around, get to know the command from the bottom up and the inside out before I could operate effectively within it. Along the way I picked up informants, people who I could trust to tell me the secrets others attempted to keep. We speak with our enemies and potential enemies for the same reason, because one among them is always willing to unload.

mally made reference to this article on the Iraq Study Group. it's very good

robert parry has an excellent update (warning) on gates...but the democrats appear to just love him.

it does make me sick

Maybe the Dems have baught into the notion that the war in Iraq is the way to stop radical Islamic expansion. Or they can't bring themselves to face the sea change that would be necessary if we lost control of the oil and the petro dollars died. The scope of adjustment is staggering to contemplate. Our life style would certainly have to change. The powers that be don't want to change as long as they are raking in tons of profits. The issues are much bigger than we discuss.

Why don't these people learn history when they attend Harvard and Yale?
****

They learn it but they don't apply it! Now, Bush is in a pickle and he won't give in because it would mean admitting a mistake. Meanwhile, the Dems are being Dems ... triangulating and looking for a happy middle ground in a situation that has got so bad that measured approaches can't succeed.

If someone like Nir Rosen thinks this could escalate into a regional civil war, we better do something about it fast. Increasing the violence won't help. We need to get the regional players involved and pass control to the Iraqi forces asap. Otherwise, the US presense will continue to galvanize the opposition groups.

Neo-conservatism at the Vatican? Kissinger to become Political Adviser to Pope Benedict XVI

wow, these guys keep comin' back like a bad rash

I think the Dems used anti-war Dem activists just to get elected.

Posted by rjsnj on December 2, 2006 at 08:35 PM

Rjsnj, I expected some of our polticians to play this game. Some flipped temporarily and some never flipped but instead kept their mouths shut allowing the vocal to bring numbers into the polls. These individuals could then feel free to continue working for corporate interests.

American politics has and will always be this way. Some politicians respond only to that itch in their pocket while others actually serve the people of the United States. The first group finds the practice acceptable because that rich man or woman paying them off is American or, if not, can be considered to be contributing to American interests by slipping a few bucks in that poltician's pocket. It's a mental illness that brought down kings and queens back in the day.

Pressure our lords and ladies of the Congress understand. If you show up on their doorstep and give them not a moments peace until they act in the interests of the people, then they will do the right thing, eventually. Those already willing to do the right thing can apply that pressure through avenues and at locations hidden from the general public.

The issues are much bigger than we discuss.

Posted by salutetheDems on December 2, 2006 at 08:48 PM

Asia Times has a series of editorials laughing at how the USA will become the new Russia, with China kicking our ass. There is much at stake.

I've grown accustomed to electricity and automobiles, but then, so did the Iraqi people. they don't have it, still.

Confessions of An Economic Hit Man is a pretty good explanation of what's going on. The money is the issue. The military does the bidding.

Kissinger like "Duke" in Doonsbury...

exactly, salutetheDems

well, it's party time...have fun y'all

read ya later

Kissinger to become Political Adviser to Pope Benedict XVI?

I thought that I saw a not so good look in the Pope's eye. Honestly, those guys over at the Vatican did not leave that comment concerning Islam in the Pope's speech by accident. They are simply not that stupid.

I'd rather not know what these guys are up to.

Pressure our lords and ladies of the Congress understand.
***

marine, I think that's now the name of the game. The politicing is over and so is the end zone celebrations. It's time to put pressure on them again. Make no assumptions. I shot off an email to Menendez as soon as I read what Corzine said. I reminded him that he was elected on an anti-war platform. I fear that someone has pressured Corzine to get to Menendez who is one of most vocal in the Senate on the ending the war. I still have hopes that people such as Webb, Klobuchar and Tester can't be silenced that easily. But, freshmen senators are sometimes reluctant to stir up too much of a fuss.

Tough times ahead. I meant it when I said that I think the next two years are going to be very hard.

Then again, if they are getting stupid they need to be brought back in line.

Straighten up and fly right, fellas.

Straighten up and fly right, fellas.
****

Darn right. Have a good night.

It is important that those we have on an anti-war platform remain that way, no matter what happens. These people keep that posibility in the minds of others which is very important when you realize that it may become essential that our military be removed from the area and that diplomacy takes the drivers seat. This day will come with or without obvious military victory.

These guys had their best chance of leaving Iraq with an obvious military victory back in 2003, after they'd removed Saddam Hussein from power. You don't get a chance like that every day. We'd have spent less time, money, and life getting Iraq beyond its present state had we done that. Staying longer isn't going to make things easier now either.

Have a nice night everyone.

Code Pink has an action planned for Monday, Dec 4th to call our representatives to end this war.

Posted by fade2bluz on December 2, 2006 at 07:59 PM,

If I thought it would do any good I'd call my representative, but in the candy apple red district I reside...fahgitaboutit.

Good evening all! I been lurkin on/off, mostly off, lot of good posts tonight!

I do not see why we need more troops to redeploy the ones already in Iraq. Talk about sittin ducks in the middle of a shootin gallery, and they want to add more? No more troops; redeploy the ones there as part of the exit strategy in handing over security to Iraq.

On another subject (other than Iraq), our local news tonight says that the Iowa Democratic party at their meeting today voted to NOT endorse Tom Vilsack (our governor)for president. Probably all the insiders know that he is trying to be a spoiler of the caucuses here to try to save face for Hillary who is not popular in Iowa. John Edwards is #1 in Iowa right now according to the Des Moines Register poll. So if Tom Vilsack could negate any meaning in the Iowa caucuses so much the better for Hillary. Well, the state party just helped negate Tom Vilsackt AND Hillary (I hope). Can anyone say who is funding Tom Vilsack's campaign?

By JOHN HEILPRIN - Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON(AP) President Bush is deciding whether to lift a ban on oil and gas drilling in federal waters off Alaska's Bristol Bay, home to endangered whales and sea lions and the world's largest sockeye salmon run.

Leasing in a portion of the area rich in oil and natural gas ended nearly two decades ago _ while Bush's father was president _ in the outcry after the Exxon Valdez oil spill in 1989.

But with natural gas prices higher, the Interior Department's Minerals Management Service proposed reopening up the North Aleutian Basin. That includes Bristol Bay and part of southeastern Bering Sea.

White House spokesman Scott Stanzel confirmed Saturday the president was considering taking that step.

Environmentalists oppose drilling there because of the potential for oil spills and harm to wildlife. They have speculated in recent days that Bush might allow such drilling before Democrats regain control of Congress in January.

"If the Bush administration decides to allow drilling in Bristol Bay, it will simply illustrate the level to which they will sink to satisfy Big Oil," Carl Pope, the Sierra Club's executive director, said Saturday. "They are willing to risk a valuable, renewable resource like Bristol Bay's salmon fisheries for limited, shortsighted drilling plans.

---------------

Hey, we need the oil now, renewable energy sources are fine for the long term future, but (he-he-he) if our plans go as directed in Iraq we can bring on WWIII and armegeddan, then, none of us will have to worry about anything again.

IowaDem,

I do not know who is funding Vilsack's campaign. This should be public knowledge and easily accessed.

I guess I'll bbl. Too much personal crap on my mind to stay focused to this stuff.

Maybe later.

Hey guys -

NEW OPEN THREAD for you all....

So sorry about the neglect! I was offline all day at rootscamp. But there is fresh blog goodness for you to enjoy at top!

Have a good night!
-Tracy

In the memo Rumsfeld calls for a major change in US actions in Iraq. 'In my view it is time for a major adjustment,' he writes. 'Clearly, what US forces are currently doing in Iraq is not working well enough or fast enough.' Rumsfeld: US failing in Iraq
----------------

Man, it appears everyone is trying to shore up their piece of the legacy, and now it's GW that is shoring up the oil market.

Good morning Dem's