WaPo -- Military victory is no longer possible in Iraq, former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said in a television interview broadcast Sunday. ... In a wide ranging interview on BBC television, Kissinger presented a bleak vision of Iraq, saying the U.S. government must enter into dialogue with Iraq's regional neighbors including Iran if any progress is to be made in the region.
****

If you can't win it, why stay in it?

we are in charge of the house and the senate in a very short time. yahoo.

kerry says he wants to run for president in 08. let me be the first to get hit with tomatoes but i support him. he is the smartest, most experienced, war hero we have running...ok, maybe he needs to learn how to turn a phrase a bit better but i would love to shove him down the throats of the wing nuts.

rjsnj, the stange thing is i could have sworn kissinger died around 1986 or so? has anyone done a dna test to see if this is the real henri? i remember in the sixties we used to say "whose kissinger now?". and is he still married to that chestnut mare?

kerry says he wants to run for president in 08. let me be the first to get hit with tomatoes but i support him.
****

gregg,

2008 is still way too far away for me. I'll support whomever we run including Kerry.

Hi jen!!

dpd, do my poor jets have any chance against the boys from the windy city? they made mince meat out of the giants last week.

Good morning everyone,

Hey gregg - it's ok, if you think he's it!

Thats ok with me, you can choose your own candidate, thats what America is suppose to be about, although it doesn't set well with some, and they start with the personal attacks.

rjsnj, the stange thing is i could have sworn kissinger died around 1986 or so?
****

gregg, he did, he did! Just kidding of course.

Maybe Kissinger can come up with a punch line to liberate the United States from Iraq such as "peace with honor" did with Vietnam. Let's encourage Kissinger to take up the project!

here is what six years of international idiocy on the part of the bush team has brought us--with the help of a bipartisan effort from the millionaires club. what ever happened to non-proliferation? guess it went the way of population control and a bunch of other wacky ideas.

now that we have taken back some power we need to whip our democrats into taking true pro-humanity positions on things and work to elect more and more progressives to both houses. clearly we have just begun:

India Test-Fires Nuclear-Capable Missile

By ARCHANA MISHRA Associated Press Writer

November 19,2006 | BHUBANESHWAR, India -- India successfully test-fired a medium-range nuclear-capable missile on Sunday, days after its rival Pakistan launched a similar missile.

The Prithvi missile was fired into the Bay of Bengal from the test range in Chandipur in the eastern state of Orissa, the official said on condition of anonymity as he is not allowed to reveal his identity under ministry rules. The test comes three days after rival Pakistan carried out a similar test of its nuclear-capable Ghauri missile, also known as the Hatf 5.

arrest the leaders, lock them up, get new ones

hello there {{{DPD! J! Gregg! dk2! rjsnj!}}}

I don't know, gg, the Bears are favored, but they were favored against the Dolphins too, and look how THAT turned out.

hello there {
****

Good afternoon Jen.

Link to the Kissinger journal:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/11/19/9516/2124

Just amazing how the neocon rats are jumping ship.

By the way, everyone on the McGaughlin group, with the exception of the ever obnoxious Tony Blankey, agreeds that there will some troops withdrawn over the next year.

jen, you finally followed the bread crumbs back from the wicked witches cottage in the forest!

Hey Jen - how have you been doing?

Wow, I may actually watch a football game today. I been so busy campaigning these past weekends that it's hard to conceive of having spare time.

Need to figure out what's televised today.

After the Cardinals, the Dolphins, and the first half against the Giants, I think everybody has a chance against the Bears. But so far, only one has been able to pull it off.

Jets against The Bears today ... ummm. Well, we'll see. No predictions from me. Football can be more contentious than politics!

Health care journal with poll:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/11/19/93548/108

Hmm, I am really impressed by these new animated poll controls on Daily Kos. They just keep improving that web site.

BBL

I've been keeping up with the developments in the FL-13 and the Secretary of State will be certifying the votes Monday making Jennings the loser by 369 votes.

Her legal camp will probably go to court and ask for a new election which is the right thing to do. A new election is needed here, 18,000 folks don't just undervote. The ballot design was purposely laid out as it was to confuse voters and those machines had problems during early voting.

Like Tracey says we have to fight for every district.

Hey I've been a Dolphin diehard fan since the early Don Shula days.

And as we say, "What about those Bucs"?

Clear Evidence 2006 Congressional Elections Hacked

Results Skewed Nationwide In Favor of Republicans by 4 percent, 3 million votes

http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/11/17/clear-evidence-2006-congressional-elections-hacked/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opednews.com%2Farticles%2Fgenera_rob_kall_061117_clear_evidence_2006_.htm&frame=true

i've been celebrating dk2! how are you?

yes gregg, well the crumbs turned out to have been soaked in this hallucinogenic so i got sidetracked.

anybody watch michigan ohio yesterday? we kicked ass! enjoy the game rjsnj!

I said if before the election and I will say it again. We need to thouroughly investigate the 2006 election. It holds all the more importance since we won. It sends the message that Democrats want every vote counted. And it cannot be labeled "sour grapes". And, if it turns out there was hanky-panky by the republicans, well I am also in favor of beating the crap out of the repugs while they are down.

Houston, We have A Problem

Act Now!!

The Neocons are on with Wolf Blitzer.
Rubin
Adelman
Frum

They all agree Bush screwed up Iraq. So what? These idiots were all wrong about the war and are now looking for cover so they don't look so stupid. While I am glad to see these idiots abandon support for Bush, why are they allowed the air time to try to save face? They were elected to nothing. They are nobody except people who supported Bush's desire to attack Iraq. Get them off my airwaves and keep them away from our elected leaders.

The Democratic party should no air the laundry in public and do as the Republicans did, push ahead and implement changes in the House and the Senate without bickering in public.
The Media pundits have a field with the drama, and it takes us away from the issues we elected people to work on.
Don't get hooked with distractions and work, please...

Lizzy, I was just going to post something similar. Have you seen the reports of the brutality while in custody?

Houston janitors brutalized in custody

It's the Pullman strike all over again.

Hey,
Have a good day Dems. I'm gonna get the chips and dip set up for the game. Bye.

DPD,

Brutality at its worst. Should I be surprised? I am!!

Enjoy the game, what game btw?

I am enjoy bread and olive oil w/lemon & rosemary.

***waving to Jen***

Good Afternoon, Democrats!

:))

Good morning, all.

what ever happened to non-proliferation? guess it went the way of population control and a bunch of other wacky ideas.

Posted by gregg on November 19, 2006 at 12:19 PM

Not so fast, gregg.

The Catholic Church is working the next generation just like the fundies are. They're trying to indoctrinate some poor young fools into thinking the rhythm method is state of the art....

Bishops see a new generation turning to classic teachings

By Tim Townsend
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
11/18/2006

It has been so long since most American Catholics have even debated the moral implications of contraception that statisticians no longer regularly ask them what they think of birth control.

Recent poll numbers are scarce, but those that do exist suggest around 90 percent of American Roman Catholics ignore their church's teaching on contraception.

"When it comes to that particular tenet of faith, it's a lost cause in America," said Tom Smith, a senior research scientist with the National Organization for Research at the University of Chicago.

But Catholic church teaching doesn't change based on statistics, even if that teaching is ignored for a couple of generations.

"The Catholic church articulates what we believe to be true and we don't stop believing what's true because it's statistically unpopular," said Belleville Bishop Edward Braxton in an interview last week at the fall meeting of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops in Baltimore. "We are counter-cultural in that sense."

Somewhat lost in reports from the meeting was the approval of a new document from the American church's pro-life committee aimed at engaged and young married couples. Called "Married Love and the Gift of Life," the document reaffirms the church's stance that artificial contraception is immoral, even between husband and wife. Its target audience is young Catholics....

stories.nsf/religion/story/D34DA77707069BB6862572
2A001D9EFB?OpenDocument">//www.stltoday.com/
stltoday/news/stories.nsf/religion/story/
D34DA77707069BB68625722A001D9EFB?OpenDocument

I love the photo, copy, and graphics for this article:

A Radical Take, A Retro Idea....

"Will Jill think I'm a loser if I suggest we quit using artifcial contraception? Sorta like our grandparents back in the '50s?

"Frank's body language suggests to me that he's ready to bring the Holy Spirit into our bedroom. About time.

When the Catholic Church can find a way for women to shoot out 10 or 12 babies and work full-time with no medical insurance, they might have some takers. But I doubt it. It's unhealthy and it's unwise.

And I'm not too sure it's not pure desperation by a bunch of desperate old men who are afraid the world is on to their sexual hangups.

When are these "authority figures" going to look around and see the reality of life in the 21st century?

And the Bush administration thinks there is no need for nuclear treaties either? Bonkers. They're just plain bonkers.

See ya at half time. Lizzy, it's Da Bears / Jets.

Re: Posted by gregg on November 19, 2006 at 12:09 PM

GregG,

I would love to shove any Democratic President down the throats of the BushCo fanatics.

:)

There's piles of leaves with my name on them and a rack waiting for me outside. I better go take in this bright, crisp autumn day.

later.

hi {{{paul and lizzy, Sandy}}}

Maybe this will work:
//www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/religion/story/D34DA77707069BB68625722A001D9EFB?OpenDocument

yes paul, me too.

Hi, {{Jen, paul, lizzy, olivia and the resident football fans}}.

I meant a "rake" but I guess I'll feel like I'm on a "rack" before the afternoon chores are done.

later.

Happy Watching!

Very Nice to See You, Jen!

Hello, Everyone!

:))

I am having a problem posting. I click post but it does not. Only when I refresh does it appear.

that's pretty typical for me too lizzy...

Please sign this petition to support the striking workers in Houston who were brutalized by the police:

http://www.facts-online.org/campaign/hines

See also the statement of Shiela Jackson Lee:

http://www.houstonjanitors.org/storage/Rep1.%20Jackson%20Lee%20Press%20Release%20Nov%2017.pdf

I am having a problem posting. I click post but it does not. Only when I refresh does it appear.
****

That's normal for this blog. Sometimes a few refreshes are needed.

Interesting tactic:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2665266&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

Long, Repeated Tours In Iraq, Afghanistan Taking Mental Toll On Soldiers
Submitted by davidswanson on Sun, 2006-11-19 01:51. Media

By Anne Usher / Cox News Service

Multiple and extended tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan are resulting in rates of post-traumatic stress disorder among soldiers that will likely match or exceed the number of Vietnam veterans diagnosed with the chronic condition, government officials and veterans groups say.

The unique circumstances in Iraq, where soldiers face an insurgency and no front line, have left many particularly vulnerable to combat stress and are driving the abuse of drugs and alcohol, military health experts say.

Yet many veterans and on-duty troops are not getting the treatment they need.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/15686

***

Of course they won't get any help. That;s because the Republicans, conservatives and their trolls don't support helping anyone but themselves.

Democrats Aim to Repeal Tax Breaks for Big Oil
By H. Josef Hebert
The Associated Press

Saturday 18 November 2006

Washington - House Democrats are targeting billions of dollars in oil company tax breaks for quick repeal next year. A broader energy proposal that would boost alternative energy sources and conservation is expected to be put off until later.

Hot-button issues such as a tax on the oil industry's windfall profits or sharp increases in automobile fuel economy probably will not gain much ground given the narrow Democratic majorities in the House and Senate.

Incoming House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, in an outline of priorities over the first 100 hours of the next Congress in January, promises to begin a move toward greater energy independence "by rolling back the multibillion dollar subsidies for Big Oil."

Yet the energy plan being assembled by Pelosi's aides for the initial round of legislation is less ambitious than her pronouncement might suggest.

For the most part, the tax benefits are ones that lawmakers talked of repealing this year when Congress struggled to respond to the public outcry over soaring summer fuel prices and oil companies' huge profits.

Topping the list for repeal are:
Tax breaks for refinery expansion and for geological studies to help oil exploration.

A measure passed two years ago primarily to promote domestic manufacturing. It allows oil companies to take a tax credit if they chose to drill in this country instead of going abroad.

Democrats say neither tax benefit should be needed for an industry reaping large profits at today's high crude oil prices.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111906X.shtml

****

Only Republicans, conservatives and their brainless trolls support giving taxpayer dollars to oil companies.

Katrina's Purgatory
The New York Times | Editorial

Saturday 18 November 2006

Excuses sound hollow when you're trapped in a flimsy trailer. For Gulf Coast residents waiting for long-promised government housing assistance, patience has given way to anger, and anguish. What is clear more than a year after Hurricane Katrina is that their needs - and the demand for action from the American public - have largely gone unmet.

In Louisiana, only 28 families have received their share of the federal dollars intended to help them repair or replace their homes. After a local uproar, and a strict new deadline from the governor, the number of residents approved for funds is now just under 5,000 - out of nearly 78,000 applications.

Louisiana's housing reconstruction authority should not bear all of the blame for this problem. All the gears of government grind too slowly for the victims of the storm. It took the Bush administration nearly six months to request the necessary rebuilding funds. Congress hemmed and hawed until June before approving the legislation. Down the coast, Mississippi's program has also been plagued with delays.

The federal housing money alone is not going to solve the difficulties faced by Katrina's victims, particularly in New Orleans. The normal market mechanisms on the Gulf Coast have been shattered, and they need to be repaired if Katrina's victims have any hope of putting their lives back together. Local banks are filling up with a reserve of billions of dollars in private insurance money. The Louisiana Recovery Authority points out that many victims who have been approved for help still have yet to ask for their checks.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111806G.shtml

****

The Republicans, conservatives and their idiotic drone trolls believe they can renege on Katrina recovery. They are in for a big surprise. Congress has the power to appropriate money NOT the chief Republican conservative obstructionist in the WH.

Interesting tactic:

****

Hmmm ...

Both Webb and Tester made a good point this morning on MTP. The peace process with the Palestinians must be renewed. No more free ride for Israel. They have a responsibility to make good on a two nation solution.

It sure was great not having to listen to idiotic Republican conservative rubber stamps this morning. It was amusing to listen to McCain flip flop on one show. He already lost the election in 2008 - I would love to see the Puggies waste money on him. McCain is no challenge at all.

Has Fox News Gone Too Far?
By Keith Olbermann
MSNBC Countdown

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/111706O.shtml

Faux News should be fined for their lying jingoistic garbage.

An old, but interesting book review by by Thom Hartmann:

"Class War in America"

Now that we are awake...

Now that we are awake...
****

There's some real hope now with Byron Dorgan, Jim Webb and Jon Tester. They all understand the problems that globalization has created and oppose the upside down economy created by Republicans, conservatives and assorted economic libertarians.

Here is a good article about how the Democrats won.....

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/661

Here is a good article about how the Democrats won.....
****

Good article. Don't worry about Carville. As I posted a couple of days, the DNC gave Dean a vote of complete confidence in his strategy. Carville has not even attended a DNC meetings of late. He has no pull with them. All that James is managing to do is make a fool out of himself.

Volunteer Force May Be "Severely Degraded" Soon, Retired General Says
By Leo Shane III
The Stars and Stripes

Saturday 18 November 2006

Washington - The all-volunteer force could be "severely degraded" within two years unless major recruiting and retention reforms are made soon, according to a retired Army four-star.

"We're in trouble," said retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey, former commander of US Southern Command. "We're making some very short-term decisions. This is a problem of resources and political will."

McCaffrey, speaking on a panel at the Military Officers Association of America symposium, military base pay isn't high enough to entice the top high schoolers to enlist, and politicians haven't done a good enough job appealing to Americans' sense of duty to help with recruiting.

"I don't believe we've ever fielded a more effective fighting force than we have today," he said.

"But we've had some problems in the last year with the number and quality of people coming into the armed forces. Generally speaking we've quadrupled the number of the lowest mental categories. We've quadrupled the number of high school graduates. We're putting 6,000, 7,000, 8,000 moral waivers into the armed forces."
****

Message to John McWindVane ... there aren't additional troops to send. Everyone sees your call for more troops as cheap political grandstanding now that you announced your intention to run in 2008.

Oh my Randi Rhodes is saying exactly what I have been saying all years. Negroponte was brought in to train Iraqi death squads. This was the School of Americas solution that the immoral Republican conservatives used in El Salvadore. It's hardly a surprise after all Bush even brought in Elliot Abrams of Iran-Contra "fame".

http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/

November 16, 2006
Putnam Wants To Know: Where Were The Rednecks?

“White rednecks” who “didn’t show up to vote for us” partly cost GOPers their cong. majorities, Rep. Adam Putnam (R-FL) told fellow Republicans today. And Putnam, seeking the post of GOP conference chair, chided ex-Chair J.C. Watts (R-OK) for ruining the conference’s ability to serve its members.

Three Republicans in the room independently confirmed to the Hotline the substance and context of Putnam’s remarks. But Putnam’s chief of staff insists that the remarks were taken out of context.

Examining the 2006 midterms, Putnam blamed the GOP defeat on “the independent vote, the women vote, the suburban vote.” He said that “heck, even the white rednecks who go to church on Sunday didn't come out to vote for us.”

http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/11/post_122.html

Adam Putnam is a Republican conservative punk. It's amusing watching the Puggies beat on the voters. They won't get elected that way.

Posted by sunny on November 19, 2006 at 02:46 PM
Thanks for the link, sunny.

It would appear to me that alleged Democrat Carville and his Bush-Republican wife are in politics for excitment, power, and money. Not for the good of the American citizens of any party.
"...In a classic move, James Carville -- the Clintons' top attack dog -- called for Dean's ouster from the Democratic National Committee.

It is the Democrats' worst-kept secret that Team Clinton has no love for Dean. Having Dean as the head of the national committee going into Hillary's quest for the presidency is unacceptable to them, so they sent out Carville to do what he does best: being Carville.

But remember: When Carville and the Clintons rolled into Washington in 1992, Democrats had the majority; two years later, under Clinton leadership, their majority was swept under the bus.

By no means should Dean get sole credit for his party's rise to power.

Yet only a fool would dismiss his hand in it."

If by some inexplicable misfortune you failed to see this or you actually did watch Chris Wallace . . .

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/11/19/wallace-torments-kerry-with-botched-joke-interrogation/

It's incredible how well Sen. Kerry did despite Wallace's BS.

REMEMBER, YOU CAN WRITE TO "comments@fox.news"

It is the Democrats' worst-kept secret that Team Clinton has no love for Dean.
****

That is true. But, they are smart enough to back down now that it is clear Dean's support is strong. The entire DNC already gave Dean a vote of complete confidence going forward with his plans. Neither the Clintons nor Carville are in the DNC.

So to put it succinctly, the Clintons and Carville will just have to live with Dean. If they are smart, and both Clintons are very smart, they'll work at making the 50 state strategy an even bigger success in 2008.

It's incredible how well Sen. Kerry did despite Wallace's BS.
****

Some things never change and one of them is that Faux News sucks.

Good afternoon everybody.

This post has nothing to do with yesterday, well, not much anyway.

After the '04 election, a lot of new people came on, nice people, not trolls whatsoever.

One was Grasshopper (I think that was his handle) and he was exited to have found a community that he could relate to on the blogsphere. He went overboard and suggested a "chatroom" for all of us that just came to the DNC to connect to people, including him, not necessarily sharing news (which was difficult, facing the fact the idiot in chief was just re-elected and the news were depressing). While I had no desire to join the off the blog chat room, he was dissed big time for even considering such an idea and never came back.

Then there was Moosedrool.... a veterinarian, who came to share some of his stories (and gave me great advise on how to find homes for my kittens). He was genuine and a lot of fun to read, he was sincere. I believe it was over Thanksgiving after the election, a quiet time on the blog... Colleen, better known as Xena, had a sick cat and all the vets had closed down for the holiday. I suggested for her to "hook up" with Moosedrool and they did, on this very blog, and he helped her out with some sound advise. And for doing that, he was trashed, he was driven away because somebody didn't think it was right to discuss personal, non-politic issues on this blog (I can't remember who, and it really doesn't matter)

For all of you that I offended yesterday, I'm sorry. I did not mean to dominate the blog, but I honestly feel we lose out by not giving new people on here a chance (yes, I know, a lot of them probably don't deserve a chance, but still). This is not an exclusive club, and it shouldn't be.

Have a great afternoon.

It's incredible how well Sen. Kerry did despite Wallace's BS.
****

What an a-hole Chris Wallace is. He's a typical right wing waterboy. Focusing an entire interview on a botched joke - how foolish is that.

Yes, I think Kerry handled this joker very well. You lose again Chris Wallace, you came across looking silly and petty.

For all of you that I offended yesterday, I'm sorry. I did not mean to dominate the blog, but I honestly feel we lose out by not giving new people on here a chance
****

gig,

The only problem with what you are saying is that Frosty is hardly new news. This persona has been trash talking this blog ever since I been here - at least three years. There is no value in his posts - they are all inflammatory. Yeah, we should have patience but not infinite patience. I still am asking the DNC to improve this blog. We shouldn't fear a troll rating system.

At any rate, I am not bothered by the troll per se but am bothered that people fight with each other over the troll. How ridiculous to fight over a right wing troll - IMHO of course. Fight if you must ... ugghhh.

gregg on November 19, 2006 at 12:09 PM

And I'm with you. I don't know what his chances are but if he runs and gets nominated, he has my full support... and I love tomatoes!

I get tired of the pet projects myself. Access to healthcare, affordable housing, decent jobs and protection from both foreign and illegal labor practices are of utmost importance. (By the way, I do oppose the notion that we should allow people who illegally entered this country to stay in this country just because their own would not provide for their needs. Americans come first, long before Iraqis, Mexicans, or any other population on Earth)

I want to see Americans openning up to one another, not dismissing one another because we don't see eye to eye but honestly trying to understand where the other is coming from. Some of us don't want to admit it, but America has problems as bad as any nation out there and they have been ignored for far too long. The worst part is that many of these problems have human faces, just American men, women and children trying to survive in a world in which no one deals with issues right there under their nose.

Fight if you must ... ugghhh.

Posted by rjsnj on November 19, 2006 at 03:46 PM

I'm all done "fighting"..

The worst part is that many of these problems have human faces, just American men, women and children trying to survive in a world in which no one deals with issues right there under their nose.
****

Marine, I agree. Just look at what happened to the poor workers in Houston. No one can live on federal minimum wage with no health care benefits.
It just isn't right.

I am optimistic that we now have people such as Dirgan, Webb and Tester who will fight for working people.

We will work to see that it is done.

I'm all done "fighting"..
****
Cool! By all means, keep fighting the Republican right wingers.

I get tired of the pet projects myself. Access to healthcare, affordable housing, decent jobs and protection from both foreign and illegal labor practices are of utmost importance. (By the way, I do oppose the notion that we should allow people who illegally entered this country to stay in this country just because their own would not provide for their needs. Americans come first, long before Iraqis, Mexicans, or any other population on Earth)

Posted by Marine on November 19, 2006 at 03:49 PM

Good afternoon

Glory Hallelujah! Some one else sees the issue as I do. It's not that I'm against the illegal immigrants in anyway, BUT there are so many of our own there are suffering from the lack of food and adequete housing in this country. So many are made to feel that they are biased against the illegals because of who they are if they state that we should take care of our own first.

The Mexican President seems to view the issue as we the United States have an obligation to take of their citizens that they cannot provide for which is totally ridiculous.

Posted by Marine on November 19, 2006 at 03:49 PM

There are at least two reasons Mexicans enter this country illegally. 1. They took the bait offered by a rich American employer (an illegal job). 2. They are the relative of one who took the bait.

will do, there are plenty to go around in Georgia :(

fox news like the republican party will soon find itself limited to that 25 to 30 % of the population that would gladly follow george bush in a lemming outfit right off the cliff. the other worldly oj simpson fiasco should peel away any remaining viewers with more than fifty iq points on their resumes.

slowly this crowd is becoming a bunch of rabble locked out of the social systems the rest of us live in...ranting away about their idiotologies and dieties as their voices grow more and more silent.

So to put it succinctly, the Clintons and Carville will just have to live with Dean. If they are smart, and both Clintons are very smart, they'll work at making the 50 state strategy an even bigger success in 2008.

Posted by rjsnj on November 19, 2006 at 03:28 PM

I agree and I think the Clintons being as politically saavy as they are know when it's time to call it a day and take another train so to speak. The might as well drop Carville and appeal to the grassroots with Dean and help him make the 50 state strategy even stronger.

The Mexican President seems to view the issue as we the United States have an obligation to take of their citizens that they cannot provide for which is totally ridiculous.
****

Here's what we can do to help the Mexican people. Stop supporting disgusting right wingers such as Vicente Fox. Condemn their government when they force their people off their land. Don't make nice with the pro-corporatist Mexican politicians. Eventually, they will fall. Obrador came very close and he has vowed to form a shadow government that works for the good of the Mexican people. Let's support him and not Calderone.

It's been proven that the "Beltway" crowd hasn't been effective in winning elections in decades. They are washed up and are beholden only to the corporate sponsors that they worship.

I am compassionate. In the past I have gone so far as to put my own life on the line or to sacrifice wants and needs so that others could have the things that they needed. I do these things while demanding action on the part of those I help. I assist but I will not surrender.

Slave labor troubles me, as does the fact that we hear more about a genocide committed across the ocean than we do about the one committed here. Native Americans are marginalized and the suffering of African Americans repeated on different terms through seasonal worker programs. These started when I was a child, back in the days when my parents and other Americans would gather the fruits and vegetables that others now gather. They also get the money my friends would have used to pay for their homes had it not been for cheaper foreign labor.

I hear all the time that Americans are lazy but that is not my experience. It is my experience that you can not name a job an American won't do for adequate compensation. The seasonal worker program and the employment of those here illegally and therefore not protected by the government have created this problem and was the invention of those who wanted more for themselves at the expense of the American worker.

will do, there are plenty to go around in Georgia :(

Posted by GiG on November 19, 2006 at 04:02 PM

GIG! Sent me some that chilly weather.

J on November 19, 2006 at 04:11 PM

Poof!! You got it :)

the suffering of African Americans repeated on different terms through seasonal worker programs. These started when I was a child, back in the days when my parents and other Americans would gather the fruits and vegetables that others now gather.

Posted by Marine on November 19, 2006 at 04:09 PM

As a young adolescent here in Central Florida I saw what the influx of the illegals did for Blacks that worked the seasonal agriculture. There are many, many families that built homes and raised families with wages from picking citrus fruit and seasonal vegetables. Grove owners and those with the seasonal vegetables found that the illegals would work for virtual pennies and in the process could harvest much, much quicker because entire families would pick together.

The influx of illegals along with successive freezes that destroyed citrus in this part of Florida put an entire segment of African-Americans in the unemplyment line.

I hear all the time that Americans are lazy but that is not my experience. It is my experience that you can not name a job an American won't do for adequate compensation.

Posted by Marine on November 19, 2006 at 04:09 PM

That's the big business line they sell to justify the tactics they have taken to be greedy for the almighty dollar. People will work, but no one I know is going to let some company use them for slave labor while they laugh all the way to the bank.

Not all of us will have the politician's job and we accept that. Some of us do actual physical labor here in America and some of us get tired of watching those who do not get more then we get. I'm not sure about you, but where I'm from the people who do the most to build America get the least in return. Those who talk and handle the money, they take up most of the space more than happy to occupy the country that others built.

Now, I am not suggesting that those who do not work with their hands have no sense of community. What I am saying is that they are often willing to allow or protect the notion that their contribution is greater than that of the average laborer, and that's just wrong. When I look around me I see the things that Americans built and my life is made easier. Greater equality and credit for their tremendous contribution is what laborers deserve.

fox news like the republican party will soon find itself limited to that 25 to 30 % of the population that would gladly follow george bush in a lemming outfit right off the cliff.

Posted by gregg on November 19, 2006 at 04:05 PM

How in the name of anything sane does Fox stay on air? I wonder sometimes if the folks that commentate actually buy into the crap they're saying.

Marine on November 19, 2006 at 04:26 PM

Marine, what you describe is class war. I posted a good book review by Thom Hartman on the subject...see Denimblue on November 19, 2006 at 02:39 PM

Marine on November 19, 2006 at 04:26 PM

Marine, what you describe is class war. I posted a good book review by Thom Hartman on the subject...see Denimblue on November 19, 2006 at 02:39 PM

Hey hello,

*******

ISABEL ALLENDE: What shocks me about the issue of immigration is that globally, capital has no borders. Money goes wherever money wants to go. There are no borders, no laws, nothing, for the capitalists. And yet, for labor, for the workers, there are fences, electrified fences and bullets.

I think that we should have international agreements for people to work and then go back to their places. Nobody wants to leave their village, their family, their children behind. Women who come to work in this country and leave six or seven children behind, and they don't see them for years and years, those families are broken. Do you think that they do that by choice? Because that’s the best thing? It’s because they have no other alternative.

So, we have to have a more humane approach to that. And instead of building an electrified fence, let's do international agreements. We need that labor. Otherwise, they would not come. If there were not employers willing to employ them, they would not come. So why we penalize the poor and we do not penalize the employer? It makes me very angry, the whole issue of immigration.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/17/1454233

I think the global economy is creating an economic slave system with the corrupt and fickle border and immigration enforcement rules.

There is so much law-breaking and corruption on both sides of the border that this is just the cost of getting a job to the immigrants.

Greater equality and credit for their tremendous contribution is what laborers deserve.
****

The way I see it, no one who works 40 hours a week should live in poverty. Everyone should have access to health care as a moral imperative.

I am not against people making money but it's wrong to starve others while enriching yourself.

The Puggies can frame that as socialism but I don't care. I see it as the right thing to do.

It's time to raise the federal minimum wage and to allow all workers access to unions without the threat of retaliation. It's time to make health care uniformly accessible - I am not a purist on how it's done but something must be done.

J, I've met many who have seen the same. It amazes me to think that those Americans who had not worked the fields or known people who did might think that Americans just decided not to do those jobs one day and so immigrants had to be brought in to do the job. No shortage of produce was ever seen, so that was obviously not the case. What did happen is that local growers lost out to great plantations the likes of those which produced cotton back in the day. Even those growers who took advantage of seasonal workers were unable to compete for long with those great plantations who now grow most of the produce sold in the country in a few states.
Growers are driven out of business here. None of them actually gave up until their was nothing more for them to do. That population once accounted for 30% of America. Now only 10% of America grows and the rest are left struggling. 30% of America should be growing just to protect us from vulnerability of a regional natural disaster.

Of course it's a slave labor system, Tom. Those who believe in it find the guest worker program attractive because it prevents those laborers from establishing themselves in either location thus leaving them vulerable.

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — For 26 years, a man known only as Secret Santa has roamed the streets every December quietly giving people money. He started with $5 and $10 bills. As his fortune grew, so did the gifts. In recent years, Secret Santa has been handing out $100 bills, sometimes two or three at a time, to people in thrift stores, diners and parking lots. So far, he's anonymously given out about $1.3 million. It's been a long-held holiday mystery: Who is Secret Santa?

But now, weak from chemotherapy and armed with a desire to pass on his belief in random kindness, Secret Santa has decided it's time to reveal his identity.

He is Larry Stewart, a 58-year-old businessman from the Kansas City suburb of Lee's Summit, Mo., who made his millions in cable television and long-distance telephone service.

His holiday giving started in December 1979 when he was nursing his wounds at a drive-in restaurant after getting fired. It was the second year in a row he had been fired the week before Christmas.

"It was cold and this car hop didn't have on a very big jacket, and I thought to myself, `I think I got it bad. She's out there in this cold making nickels and dimes,'" he said.

He gave her $20 and told her to keep the change.

"And suddenly I saw her lips begin to tremble and tears begin to flow down her cheeks. She said, `Sir, you have no idea what this means to me.'"

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/National/Secret_Santa_Revealed.html

The rewards of work and happiness found from kind works that mean some personal sacrafice are open to most all of us. What is astonishing is the lack of guilt or responsibility in many rich people today. They hide in their mansions and behind walls, but I don't think this happiness is theirs.

I think you're right, Tom. Some give to charity and definetly provide needed items to people who would otherwise have nothing, but that is not community. Community is walking out your door, down the street, and involving yourself in the lives of those who live around you.

Our notion of a tribal community is what I'd like to see. This is the way that human beings were meant to live. By working hand in hand with one another we can improve the lives of the rich and poor alike. At the same time we'll be doing away with those unsightly areas that no one wants to see. Here I'm talking about those parts of the city where everyone fights to survive. Those areas within which most crime origninates. Desperation is behind the evils of this world and works hand in hand with greed.

Posted by J on November 19, 2006 at 04:25 PM

I know it's a lot to ask, but I hope the new Democratic Congress can find a way to develop and pass legislation to require what I think of as "Fair Trade." I mean only allow trade with low or no duties with countries who must pay a fair wage and provide good working conditions. There must be a way to ensure these requirements.

I am so tired of finding extremely low cost products at the discount stores from countries that are polluting our whole world and running sweatshops.

I also want them to find a way of making sure we have fair markets for US goods.

Isn't there a way to do this?

I know it's a lot to ask, but I hope the new Democratic Congress can find a way to develop and pass legislation to require what I think of as "Fair Trade."
****

Paul,

It's not alot to ask. We should have demanded it all along! Keep this in mind - all trade agreements come up for renewnal periodically. The China Most Preferred Nation agreement comes up for renewnal every two years. I believe NAFTA and WTO are the same.

First step:

1) Revoke the President's fast track authority. As with all powers given to Bush, he's abused this power. It comes up for renewnal next year - don't give it to him.

2) Review each and every agreement as they come up.

3) Push back on all new agreements that lack labor and environmental standards.

Senators to watch:

Dorgan
Webb
Tester
Sanders
Brown

I believe each and every one of them will be a champion of fair trade.

Apply tariffs to those nations who allow deplorable labor practices and environmental abuse. There is no reason to give a countries who do these things easy access to the United States when it is in our best interest to ensure that they do not happen here or anywhere else on Earth.

Posted by J on November 19, 2006 at 04:28 PM

Fox News is a self-licking ice cream cone.

My older brother-in-law reminds me of F*ck-Yourself Cheney. He never watches any other news program, and he is religiously ingrained with the Faux talking points. That's the reason I don't know him any longer. He used to be an intelligent, well-educated engineer who read the Manchester Guardian, the Chicago Tribune, and the Kansas City Star. [In those days the Star was a more or less decent midwestern paper.]

I wonder what he will do when this incredible Wurlitzer falls apart.

Greetings Marine,

I agree, communities are where people live. This article was just about giving and kindness. You'd think the owners of the wealth would have the humanity to put the welfare of people ahead of that of corporations and profits. The direct rewards I guess are just not there for them in so acting.

Scroooged

Good afternoon, all.

Posted by rjsnj on November 19, 2006 at 03:09 PM

rjsnj,

Why would anyone want to enlist knowing that they would end up in Hell for one redeployment after another? Every time one of these retired generals points out the obvious, you wonder how the Republicans missed it so badly....and why McCain is still missing it.

Maybe because he spent so much time in a POW camp, he thinks that what's going on over in Iraq is normal?

What kind of "sense of duty" do you think those private contractor recruitment firms are selling to these low end enlistees? I sense our own military recruiters don't have the heart to lie to them.

And if Halliburton wasn't paying such high premiums for mercenaries, would these better qualified people still be in the military?

If there was ever been a textbook case of how to weaken and demoralize a standing and standby army this Iraq fiasco has got to be it. Rumsfeld did "a heck of a job" which I hope he get's full credit for in history books.

If there was ever been a textbook case of how to weaken and demoralize a standing and standby army this Iraq fiasco has got to be it.
****

Not only the professional army but the national guard. The guard should not be over there in Iraq. Now, we may have a tough time even filling natonal guard positions given that a precedent was set for using them overseas. Yep, Bush has done lots of harm.

Posted by Marine on November 19, 2006 at 05:12 PM

Marine,

That may have been possible before we started borrowing large sums of money from these countries to fund the tax cuts for the wealthy. I'm not too sure what leverage we have with this albatross of a trade and national deficit around our neck.

Some of the talking heads were saying today on the Sunday talk shows that it was too late to institute fair trade measures....that we are too tied into globalization. I wonder if this is just another GOP lie or whether we are indeed past the point as we are in Iraq.

But we still are one of the world's largest economies, so maybe we should try? Why did the American public give into the idea that we are victims? We are only victims if let ourselves think we are.

History books, Hell! I hope he gets full credit at the Pearly Gates.

Mitt Romney with a nasty smirk at the demonstration against gay marriage.

:(

I think you're right, Tom. Some give to charity and definetly provide needed items to people who would otherwise have nothing, but that is not community. Community is walking out your door, down the street, and involving yourself in the lives of those who live around you.

They tell the story over at the Abe Lincoln home in Springfield, IL, that he used to play cards out in the back porch with the black teamster who lived down the street from him...the same man who picked up Linclon's coffin and transported to its resting place.

Now there is a sense of community.

I'm not too sure what leverage we have with this albatross of a trade and national deficit around our neck.
****

sandy,

Here's our leverage. We are the largest consumer in the world. China, etc... needs our marketplace. Once that is no longer true, then there is no leverage. But once that's true I believe we will have an economic disaster on our hands in which case the trade agreements become irrelevant. Yes, we have plenty of leverage left.

Here's a simple thing we can do. The corporations are ticked off that the Chinese government is encouraging it;s workers to form unions. You heard me right - the Chinese fear a people's revolution because of the poor treatment workers get at American overseas plants. The American corporatists are pressuring our government to talk the Chinese into backing off. Let's do the opposite. Let's pass a sense of the Congress and Senate that China should encourage trade unions. Removing the pools of cheap labor is the best defense for all workers. The AFL-CIO recognizes that and are actively involved in an international labor movement. Plainly, this scares the hell out of the corporatists and greed heads. Their days are numbered.

i'm Baaaaaaaaaack.

In addition to labor and environmental concerns, Carter also instituted Human Rights codicils into trade agreements. It CAN be done. Believe me, those countries need our money more than we need their cheap crap.

I am in real fear of the actual size of George W. Bush's national deficit. I know my grandchildren will probably not succeed it repaying it.

It CAN be done. Believe me, those countries need our money more than we need their cheap crap.
****

DPD, I agree. The worst thing we can do is to listen to the conventional wisdom of the inside the beltwayers. I think they have a brewing populist rebellion on their hands and the corporatists are getting nervous.

I am in real fear of the actual size of George W. Bush's national deficit. I know my grandchildren will probably not succeed it repaying it.
****

1) Pay-as-you-go rules.

2) Eliminate tax cuts for the wealthy corporations and top 1%.

3) Get a real economy going that is based on new technology - embryonic stem cells and alternate energy.

4) Stop bleeding money in Iraq.

1 + 2 + 3 + 4 = a surplus in eight years time.

It can be done but we must get rid of the obstructionist Republican conservatives completely.

Our wounded boys have to beg when they are short of money. Rep. Senator Craig basically ignored them. Sen. Barack Obama was supportive.

We must change this ASAP.

Our boys must not beg for necessities. They deserve so much better.

Sen. Barack Obama was supportive.
****

Republican conservative obstructionists stink.

Obama is a good man! We'll be hearing alot more from him in the years to come.

When I was a kid, there was a stretch of a particular street that the locals called "refrigerator row". In a 1 mile stretch there were manufacturing plants owned by Maytag, Hotpoint, Frigidaire, GE, Sunbeam, and a few others. The next stretch had Admiral, Zenith, RCA, and some other TV manufacturer.

Galesburg IL had a huge refrigerator plant until 2 years ago.

Well, ALL of those TV and refrigerator plants are now closed, all the jobs have been sent to China, and the local economies are dead.

Has the price of YOUR appliances or TVs gone down? No, of course not. But the price of making them has, so the stock goes up.

Since these corporations have stopped funding pensions, and instead hoodwinked the workers into buying into 401k's that may have been O.K., as long as they kept contributing to it. When they got laid off, they were no longer adding to the fund, and after being unemployed for a few years had to withdraw their money from the funds.

BANG!! Here comes a huge tax hit, and the unemployed skilled workers are even more in the hole than before.

Wall Street can shove it. Main Street is what this Country is about.

BBIAB

Wall Street can shove it. Main Street is what this Country is about.
****

dpd,

I agree with you completely. I hate to draw historic parallels but all nations that turned to finance as their chief export failed miserably. Edwardian England is one example. I hope that isn't the fate that awaits the United States. I see no way out unless we change our ways.

ABC News is showing pictures of the Anti Bush demonstrations in Jakarta. It is really amazing.

I remember when I was studying in Mexico City and John Kennedy came to speak. The demonstrations were overwhelmingly welcoming.

George W. has changed our world.

ABC News is showing pictures of the Anti Bush demonstrations in Jakarta. It is really amazing.
***

Well, Bush is having such a lovely Asian tour.

Rejected in Vietnam.

Laughed at in China.

Protested in Indonesia.

On the bright side for dumbya, he doesn't have to face protesters here in the USA.

No. They walled us off -- as you know.

No. They walled us off -- as you know.
***

To an extent he has but not completely. I predict large protests against Dumbya in the months to come. Yeah, he'll probably go hide on the ranch while the protests are there. But, Cindy Sheehan is his new next door neighbor, No rest for the chimp nor does he deserve any. He can't hide from the people of this country or the world.

Republicans have speculated that a Democratic congressional majority will mean a flurry of subpoenas and investigations into everything under the sun as retaliation against the GOP and President Bush.

Not so, Waxman said.

"A lot of people have said to me, 'Are you going to now go out and issue a lot of subpoenas and go on a wild payback time?' Well, payback is unworthy," he said. "Doing oversight doesn't mean issuing subpoenas. It means trying to get information."

Subpoenas would be used only as a last result, Waxman said, taking a jab at a previous committee chairman, GOP Rep. Dan Burton of Indiana, who led the committee during part of the Clinton administration.

"He issued a subpoena like most people write a letter," Waxman said.

Get this one:

This morning on Fox New Sunday, Bill Kristol said that that the current Iraq strategy of “Iraqification” is “failing” and has been “discredited.” Noting that CentCom commander Gen. John Abizaid said he finds “despair” about Iraq when he comes to Washington, Kristol said he was “very worried” that if conditions in Iraq did not improve within 2 to 3 months, “political support will crumble not among Democrats, but among Republicans. Gone.

****

This from the chief Fox News Neccon ChickenHawk.

Yeah, they may get 2 to 3 months. We can't do much until January anyway so there's almost two months right there.

It is the Democrats' worst-kept secret that Team Clinton has no love for Dean.

The Clintons want to get "their own man" back in charge of the DNC so they can get their hands in the DNC cookie jar again. That's why they want Dean out. They want to use all that DNC money for Zell Miller/Joe Lieberman DLC style candidates and be able to starve all Liberal non-DLC candidates for money nation-wide like they did for the previous 12 years. They're "hopping mad" about no longer being able to use DNC funds as their own privite bank account.

.Heading into the final chapter of his presidency, fresh from the sting of a midterm election defeat, Bush finds himself with fewer and fewer friends. Some of the strongest supporters of the war have grown disenchanted, former insiders are registering public dissent and Republicans on Capitol Hill blame him for losing Congress....The sense of Bush abandonment accelerated during the final weeks of the campaign with the publication of a former aide's book accusing the White House of moral hypocrisy and with Vanity Fair quoting (Kenneth) Adelman, Richard N. Perle and other neoconservatives assailing White House leadership of the war....

Some insiders said the White House invited the backlash. "Anytime anyone holds themselves up as holy, they're judged by a different standard," said David Kuo, a former deputy White House director of faith-based initiatives who wrote "Tempting Faith," a book that accused the White House of pandering to Christian conservatives. "And at the end of the day, this was a White House that held itself up as holy."...
****

Tee, Hee, Hee ... all of the rats beating on the Bush.

.Heading into the final chapter of his presidency, fresh from the sting of a midterm election defeat, Bush finds himself with fewer and fewer friends. Some of the strongest supporters of the war have grown disenchanted, former insiders are registering public dissent and Republicans on Capitol Hill blame him for losing Congress....The sense of Bush abandonment accelerated during the final weeks of the campaign with the publication of a former aide's