Moses,

So let me see if I've got this straight.

You think that "an election between those two [Thompson and Obama] would restore an air [of] civility to the election process, something that [you] think is sorely missing in presidential politics."

Any other combination wouldn't work.

Edwards and Thompson, Hillary and Thompson, Edwards and Guiliani, Hillary and Guiliani, etc., etc., etc. would not restore an air of civility. I suppose in some cases an air of civility would be compromised if Thompson and Obama weren't the candidates. (Don't worry, I'm not even going to ask why you feel that way)

Also you would not ever vote for Hillary.

If Hillary were running against Newt Gingrich you would either vote for Newt or not vote at all. Or you would consider voting for Nader or any other independent candidate, as long as it isn't Hillary. If Newt were elected and Hillary wasn't then you would be happy because Hillary wasn't elected.

And I suppose now your going to claim that your "never vote for Hillary" stand has nothing to do with the fact that she is a "woman".

Fine.

As long as you don't start telling everyone how you're going to part the red sea, that's fine with me.

NO President has EVER used a signing statement to say "I'll ignore this and that parts of this law" until the Chimp.

Posted by DPD on July 3, 2007 at 04:49 PM

DPD,

I thought as much. Spector is doing interference again for the White House spin doctors.

So it really IS a good thing for us. Outrageous, but still a good thing for us.

Posted by PamB on July 3, 2007 at 04:45 PM

Pam,

Nothing is more outrageous than Cheney saying he's a fourth branch of the government and can do whatever he wants because the Constitution never stipulated his limitations.

Not that was something right out of the mouth of P.T. Barnum.

You think that "an election between those two [Thompson and Obama] would restore an air [of] civility to the election process, something that [you] think is sorely missing in presidential politics."

Someone said that? I need to go back and read the whole post. It must be hysterical.

Fred Thompson will restore civility? Maybe to the crew and cast of Law and Order. And only when he can get himself out of his chair long enough to exert the effort.

This guy is so lazy he can hardly bring himself to do anything unless someone is passing cash across his outreached hand. Once a paid lobbyist, always open to bribes.

If any republic were running against the devil, the devil would be a safer bet to go with. They've topped Beelzebub itself in theft, depravity, immorality, gluttony, tyranny, self-centered destructiveness and even stole his crown as prince of lies. At least with the devil, you'd know what you'd be getting. With a republic, there's no limit to the depths they'll sink to.

Besides saying he would direct the Justice department not to enforce parts of the telecommunications act of 1996, Clinton also said he would ignore parts of the 1996 Libertad Act.
Posted by Moses on July 3, 2007 at 05:30 PM

first of all, most of the rest of the world, inclulding the EU ignored and refused to follow much the the '96 Libertad act. So not apparently any big deal.

"The European Union introduced a Council Regulation (No 2271/96) (law binding all member states) declaring the extra-territorial provisions of the Helms-Burton Act to be unenforceable within the EU, and permitting recovery of any damages imposed under it. The EU law also applied sanctions against US companies and their executives for making Title III complaints.

The United Kingdom had previously introduced provisions by statutory instrument extending its Protection of Trading Interests Act 1980 (originally passed in the wake of extra-territorial claims by the U.S. in the 1970s) to United States rules on trade with Cuba. United Kingdom law was later extended to counter-act the Helms-Burton Act as well. This included criminal sanctions for complying with certain provisions of the Helms-Burton Act whilst in the UK (see statutory instrument).

Mexico passed a law in October 1996 aimed at neutralizing the Helms-Burton Act. The law provides for a fine of 2.2 million pesos, or $280,254, against anyone who while in Mexican territory obeys another country's laws aimed at reducing Mexican trade or foreign investment in a third country.

Bill Clinton and George W. Bush both signed a provision allowing for a waiver of the law. Though, effective May 10, 1999, with CFR Title 31 Part 515 the act was amended and is presently being enforced.

The following are laws that were passed in different countries to counteract the effects of Helms-Burton:

Foreign Extraterritorial Measures Act of Canada
Law of Protection of Commerce and Investments from Foreign Policies that Contravene International Law of Mexico

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Libertad_Act

We're talking life and death bills that affect the USA population where Bush blatently says "I'm not going to be following this crap!"

Hill William,

Right on. I would vote for Hitler or Stalin before I would vote for any republic.

I don't need to lie. I have all kinds of cyber abuse, harassment, stalking, racist remarks, homophobia(afraid of being a homosexual oneself), threats against bloggers, wishes for deaths, that I copy and send on periodically to add to their files. I tell them they can track these sub-humans and terrorists through the DNC. I stick to facts.

Posted by PamB on July 3, 2007 at 09:04 AM

Comrade Pam,

You wanted us to save them files ? Last month we had toilet paper shortage, sorry the files you sent were used. Please send more.

Bill Clinton should have done more than just waive parts of this bill. He SHOULD have thrown the entire thing out, and Robert Murdoch would still be down in Australia hacking newspapers on the street.

The Telecommunications Act of 1996[1] was the first major overhaul of United States telecommunications law in nearly 62 years, amending the Communications Act of 1934, and leading to media consolidation.[2] It was approved by the 104th Congress on January 3, 1996 and signed into law on February 8, 1996 by President Bill Clinton.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_of_1996

Posted by CAS_TROL on July 3, 2007 at 05:51 PM

Hey Moses,

How come you changed your name?

Nothing is more outrageous than Cheney saying he's a fourth branch of the government and can do whatever he wants because the Constitution never stipulated his limitations.

Not that was something right out of the mouth of P.T. Barnum.

Posted by SandyH on July 3, 2007 at 05:31 PM

And I will bet like PT Barnum, there were some simple minded People out there, that said "OH, Mr. Cheney is his own government"!

At least with the devil, you'd know what you'd be getting. With a republic, there's no limit to the depths they'll sink to.Posted by HillWilliam4Edwards08 on July 3, 2007 at 05:43 PM

{{Bill}}

We thought we had seen it all after Nixon, Reagan, Bush Sr, and then along comes this Culture of Corruption and these neo-cons led by Cheney, and gives a whole new meaning to Evil .

Posted by CAS_TROL on July 3, 2007 at 05:51 PM

Moses,

You should just keep the same name instead of changing it to CAS_TROL. It makes everyone think you are two different Republicans posting.

Also you shouldn't stereotype and label Democrats as a whole. Democrats are too diverse to be lumped into one category.

We KNEW there had to be a reason!

The real reason Scooter Libby wasn't actually pardoned

Please note the reason for the commuting of Scooter's sentence is so that Scooter can still claim the 5th Amendment in further investigations of Bush, Rove, and Cheney.

Scooter still has an appeal pending, so he can still claim the 5th. A pardon now would have allowed Scooter to be forced to testify without limitation. The pardon will come right after the November 2008 election.

but I think if a Pardon is ever given, we can Stop it!

Bush's pardoning of Libby violates pardoning rules
This is a continuation off the previous post about the Libby pardon.

It's interesting how the White House is not calling this a "pardon." Instead, they are choosing to use the word "commute." Nonetheless, it still is at least a partial pardon -- and it is illegal, according to the Justice Department's own web site:

They “require a petitioner to wait a period of at least five years after conviction or release from confinement (whichever is later) before filing a pardon application,” according to the Justice Web site.

Moreover, in weighing whether to recommend a pardon, U.S. attorneys are supposed to consider whether an applicant is remorseful. “The extent to which a petitioner has accepted responsibility for his or her criminal conduct and made restitution to ... victims are important considerations. A petitioner should be genuinely desirous of forgiveness rather than vindication,” the Justice Web site states.

As we have seen with the ongoing battle over Executive privilege, the White House thinks it is above the law.

http://www.thebluestate.com/2007/07/bushs-pardoning.html

"Too many of our leaders have made a devil's bargain with corporate and wealthy interests, saying 'I'll keep you in power if you keep me in power."

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1368

well, well, here is a way for very easy impeachment. Find and expose the connection of Fibby to Bush's part in the exposure of Valerie Plame's identity.

The Framers, ever sensitive to the need for checks and balances, recognized the potential for abuse of the pardon power. According to a Judiciary Committee report drafted in the aftermath of the Watergate crisis: "In the [Constitutional] convention George Mason argued that the President might use his pardoning power to 'pardon crimes which were advised by himself' or, before indictment or conviction, 'to stop inquiry and prevent detection.' James Madison responded:

"[I]f the President be connected, in any suspicious manner, with any person, and there be grounds [to] believe he will shelter him, the House of Representatives can impeach him; they can remove him if found guilty. . . .
"Madison went on to [say] contrary to his position in the Philadelphia convention, that the President could be suspended when suspected, and his powers would devolve on the Vice President, who could likewise be suspended until impeached and convicted, if he were also suspected

Obstruction of justice
Congress needs to hold Dick Cheney accountable

Hi,

President Bush let Lewis Libby, the one man who was convicted for the lies around the Iraq war, go free.

And the obstruction of justice doesn't stop there. The Senate recently subpoenaed documents from the Vice President's office around the illegal wiretapping program and so far he has not complied. It's clear this administration thinks it's above the law. That's un-American, and I think it's time for Congress to hold them accountable.

I just signed a petition urging Congress to force Vice President Cheney to respond to its subpoenas. If he doesn't, Congress has to begin impeachment proceedings against him. Can you join me by clicking the link below?

http://pol.moveon.org/subpoena

Thanks!

*****

(P.S. You may also want to add a comment how President Bush should pardon the border control agents and how it's a disgrace those two men are still in jail for doing their job to protect the American people. )

Looks like we will get a two-fer with Hillary!

For those who claim they are not big on Bill or Hillary, you may be alone in that.

"Introducing Hillary Clinton at the state fairgrounds, the ex-president, who has stayed largely outside public view in the early phase of the campaign, sought to dispel perceptions that his wife is a tough person to like.

He stood behind her as the couple was introduced to the crowd, his hands resting affectionately on her shoulders. Clinton described his wife as "by a long stretch the best qualified non-incumbent I have ever had a chance to vote for in my entire life."

After his introductory speech, he hugged her warmly, handed off the microphone, then sat and watched as the Democratic front-runner called for universal healthcare and an energy policy that eschews foreign oil.

She also made plain that her husband, immensely popular among Democrats, would remain an influential advisor.

Closing her half-hour speech, she said: "I will have some good help along the way."

Campaign organizers estimated the crowd at 7,000. People waited in line for hours to hear the Clintons, who arrived nearly an hour late. Sitting on hay bales and risers, some members of the audience sported buttons criticizing President Bush ("Bush Bin Lyin' ") and touting potential "First Gentleman" Bill Clinton.

"It's exciting! I always loved the man," said Bill Troutfetter, 66, of Des Moines, a retired truck driver. "With him and her together, it's a solid situation. There's a lot of knowledge."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-bill3jul03,1,2332059.story?coll=la-headlines-nation&ctrack=1&cset=true

Personally, I Loved the man. I watched my 401K holdings grown quickly, while his economy was so good. I watched as the housing market allowed my kids both to buy houses. (including the single one) I watched as there was the biggest advances towards peace in Ireland and Israel I have seen in my lifetime. I watched as the world smiled on him and loved and respected him and our country. I watched as Hillary attempted to revamp Health care in this country, regardless of whether Insurance Cos and Drug cos might suffer. I watched as they made sure Medicare and SS would stay solvent. I watched as they turned 12 years of Republican debt and deficit into surplus. Yeah, I guess I would not mind the two of them strolling back down Pennsylvania Ave and into that White House again !

(P.S. You may also want to add a comment how President Bush should pardon the border control agents and how it's a disgrace those two men are still in jail for doing their job to protect the American people. )

Posted by DemocratKickingAss on July 3, 2007 at
06:36 PM

DKA,

Good point. However, neither of these men have evidence that they could bring forward against the President, so they don't have a chance of hell of getting their sentences commuted...nor are they large GOP donnors.

Only the "little people" pay taxes or get pardons or commutations.

here's something i'd like to offer up to everyone...hope you like it.

A PROMISE BROKEN -- A PROMISE KEPT

As young people growing up in America, we are told we live in the greatest country on earth, a country where all men are created equal and each has a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We are told that if we go to college and work hard the ’American Dream’ will be ours, we will be able to live our lives with dignity and pride and we will want for very little. We are told our government is comprised of three separate branches with checks and balances to prevent any one branch from becoming too powerful. God is inserted into our national anthem, put upon our currency, invoked in our official ceremonies, and we are told ‘He’ is on our side. These and a great deal more we are told while we are yet naïve to the treacherousness of greed and the powers of great wealth.
As we mature into young adults, we become increasing aware of the ’ifs and buts’ working to moderate our expectations. We begin to realize that not all we were told was exactly correct and that, indeed, much was cruel lies. We lose the twinkle in our once childish eyes as we become aware of the pervasive reality of social injustices imbedded deep within the fabric of our country’s institutions. We realize there are those among us who profess to be our leaders who manipulate these injustices to their own advantage, seeking to increase their personal wealth and power while diminishing both for others. Confronted by obstacle upon never ending obstacle, many of us lose hope and sink into despair. Many others in acts of not so quiet desperation, lash out violently and indiscriminately, seeking ‘revenge’ for all the broken promises.
The dark cloud which shadows our nation’s future is that we are, in fact, ‘our own worst enemy’. The realization of this leaves open the possibility of restored hope. Thru our own thoughtfulness, intelligence, and compassion for the lives of others we can correct the inequities of the past, change the course of our country, and lead the way to a brighter day. What more fitting way to celebrate the anniversary of the birth of our country than to pledge our unending opposition to adversity. And what better way to keep the promise of a better tomorrow than to promise to cast the light of truth into all the dark places of our world.
Happy Birthday America!

BoilerMan

Posted by Harpo_Salutes_America_231_years on July 3, 2007 at 06:50 PM

Moses,

I told you, you shouldn't change your name. It makes people think you are two different people.

First you want to call yourself Herbert and then Moses and now Harp...etc., etc., etc.

You should really call yourself only one name.

Well you guys have a good night.

And Moses, CAS_TROL, Herbert, or Harpo remember if you keep changing your name and you post under multiple identities, it makes everyone think you are several bloggers instead of the same person posting under multiple identities.

Johnnybos, nope didn't change monickers here at all. And yes, I still won't vote for Hillary under any circumstances, and yes, you can still try putting words in my mouth. No I won't try parting any seas. But you may still need to be led out of the wilderness.

P.S. You may also want to add a comment how President Bush should pardon the border control agents and how it's a disgrace those two men are still in jail for doing their job to protect the American people

Dem KA, unfortunetly for these 2 guys, they are not above the law either, and they did break the law.

don't forget folks! Let's all Honk to Impeach!

HONK TO IMPEACH

Americans celebrate July 4 as a day of patriotism, but the true spirit of July 4 has been lost. After all, July 4, 1776 was the day our Founding Fathers declared the American Revolution against King George!

Our ancestors won that revolution, but after 224 years King George came back through Texas. Fortunately we don't need to fight another revolution because the Founding Fathers gave us a Constitution with the power of impeachment. We just have to demand that our Representatives use their impeachment power to hold George Bush and Dick Cheney accountable for their crimes.

So let's use this July 4 to declare our independence from King George W - and let's make some noise!

Local impeachment activists report great success holding signs at busy intersections that say "HONK TO IMPEACH!" Most of the drivers who pass these signs are delighted to honk - which makes them happy and makes our activists happy too. Best of all, the drivers and pedestrians discover how much support there is for impeachment - something they never knew because the Corporate Media won't tell them or even conduct a poll. Here's a great report from Bob Feuer of Great Barrington, Mass: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/honktoimpeach-1

July 4 is a great day to "HONK TO IMPEACH" because there's already lots of noise from fireworks and people are relaxed. So here's our plan:

Posted by fade2bluz on July 3, 2007 at 08:31 AM

HONK, HONK!! (that's what lame duck pretzeldents sound like)

HONK TO IMPEACH STARTING JULY 4TH

Last week we kicked off our "Honk To Impeach" campaign, which is a great way to get past the Corporate Media blackout and prove to politicians, the media, and our fellow citizens how many Americans support impeachment. July 4 is an especially good day to "Honk To Impeach" because it brings out the true spirit of July 4, 1776, when patriots launched their revolution against tyrannical King George III. Let's use this July 4 to declare our independence from King George W.

We've added a modern twist, which is that if people text "IMPEACH" to 30644 they'll be signed up to receive impeachment alerts on their phone. This is a great way to get people involved who are just driving by a Honk to Impeach action, so include a sign that says "Text IMPEACH to 30644" if you organize one of these events. Check out http://www.democrats.com/july-4-honk-to-impeach for more info and http://www.communitywalk.com/impeach for a map of locations.

Posted by Moses on July 3, 2007 at 06:59 PM

Interesting how Moses likes to rebut only after a declaration of signing out has been made.

It seems Moses is trying to convince everyone here that he supports the Democratic Party but is only here as a Republican Party plant.

LMAO PAMMY {{jinx GF}}

I will say it's clever for Moses to pretend he supports Obama when he really supports Thompson.

If Obama and Thompson become their parties respective candidates don't be surprised if he finds a reason to criticize Obama and then all of a sudden become a Thompson supporter.

Now I'm really signing out for tonight.

To all the honest Democrats on this blog,

I hope you have a fun Fourth of July Holiday.

P.S. Moses, you can now post you rebuttal and pretend claim that you support Obama, when you really support Thompson.

Here's an interesting poll that has Edwards ahead (oddly)

duhhhhhhh! simple minds should keep their mouths firmly shut! Wrong again, numb ones!

In August 1994 Starr was appointed by a three-judge panel to continue the Whitewater investigation, replacing Robert B. Fiske, who had been appointed by the Attorney General prior to the reenactment of the Independent Counsel law. The law conferred broad investigative powers on Starr and the other independent counsels named to investigate the administration, including the right to subpoena nearly anyone who might have relevant information. Starr would later receive authority to conduct additional investigations, including the firing of White House Travel Office personnel, potential political abuse of confidential FBI files, [5], Madison Guaranty, Rose Law Firm, Paula Jones law suit and, most notoriously, possible perjury and obstruction of justice to cover up President Clinton's sexual relationship with Monica Lewinsky.

2-To outsiders, the prosecutors' decision to turn their attention to the president's alleged sexual appetites may have seemed like a radical, even desperate, departure from Starr's mandate. But it was less of a leap for Starr. His many tentacled investigation, which first focused on events when Clinton was governor of Arkansas, evolved through the 1992 election campaign and continued into his presidency, already focused on whether Clinton's intimates had sought to suppress information by giving less than forthright accounts or covering up questionable behavior.

But to his considerable number of detractors, Starr's decisions are those of an obsessed inquisitor desperately grasping for something, anything, that can help him land a blow against a frustratingly elusive adversary.

"Who could possibly perceive Ken Starr as 'independent' at this point?" asked Nancy Luque, a former federal prosecutor who faults Starr for lack of discretion in his zeal as independent counsel. "He has so much riding on his report, a battle to the death. His ability to continue with credibility in this town hangs on his ability to get a scalp."

http://partners.nytimes.com/library/politics/081798clinton-starr.html

Rudy Giuliani emerged as the winner in the Republican presidential money contest this quarter, raising more and spending less than both of his leading rivals.

Mitt Romney tapped his personal wealth for a $6.5 million loan and John McCain's campaign was seriously considering public financing to revive his all-but-broke presidential bid

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070703/campaign-money/

Van Gogh and The Big Blue Marble!

DON'T FORGET ABOUT OLBERMANN'S "SPECIAL COMMENT" TONIGHT!!

OOoo dpd thanks! ;-)

When are the overpaid CEO's of Ford, GM and Chrysler going to get it. PEOPLE WANT MORE FUEL EFFICIENT CARS PERIOD!!

What is with these people? They are as stupid as the republics.
href="http://partner.neopets.com/newsArticle.aspx?catId=8&articleId=1125212&" rel="nofollow">GM, Ford, Chrysler's June Sales Drop

GM, Ford, Chrysler's June Sales Drop

Thompson is a moron neer-do-well.

IT'S OFFICIAL:

SENATOR LIEBERMAN HAS LOST HIS MARBLES

Imagine, calling for the United States to engage Iran militarily at a time when not even operations in Afghanistan appear to be especially stable. What's missing here, of course, is common sense. To make matters worse, the Senator fails to lay out plans for such action. That leaves us with a man simply crying out emotionally.

who gives a rats A**sssss?

Seems to me Lieberdouche cares MORE about protecting the land of his ROOTS than the LAND he steals money from - er I mean the land where he makes a living.

jinx to you, too Dawnie. Great minds surely DO think alike. :)

Were ya watching any of the sleaze or corruption

uhhhh, other than what Starr tried desperately to pin on him and failed, there WAS NONE>

who gives a rats A**sssss?

Posted by Dawnie on July 3, 2007 at 07:34 PM

sorry that was directed at a ken starr comment..... I forgot to ignore (yet again)

What are president asshole and vice president asshole going to do when bin-laden takes over Pakistan and obtains the atomic bomb? chimp doesn't dare to even think of this scenario. When it happens, and it's just a matter of time, we will be in deep shit. cheney is probably pannint it for 2009 so they can blame the Democrats.

Clashes erupt at Pakistan mosque

Starr would later receive authority to conduct additional investigations, from Janet Frickin Reno Duh, including the firing of White House Travel Office

MY statement you chose to debate AND FAILED TO DO, said Ken Starr tried from the beginning of Clinton's term to try and pin something on him.

Open those beady little blood shot eyes and READ next time, fruitface !

The next President (DEM, of course) should appoint Lieberdouche to be Ambassador to Israel, and be done with him. I know Rell is a Pug, but NOBODY is as bad as that asswipe who is putting Israel's interests over the lives of OUR soldiers and Marines.

Send him over there and have AIPAC pay for his protection.

Must get some din din before Keith!

BBL

Peace/hugs

One might ask at this point, "From what personal experience or training regimine does Lieberman draw from in suggesting that the United States should begin military operations against a formidable enemy while already engaged on two nearby fronts?" The answer, surprise, surprise, is that Lieberman has none.

True he has sat on several influential political panels, and currently does, but in doing so he has seldom shown the ability to do so much as investigate fully the observations made by those tasked with providing intelligence. Most often the Senator is seen as he is here, making decisions based on apparent personal beliefs. A conviction arrived at as the result of intense scrutiny would surely result in a more compelling arguement than that the Senator provides.

a good read from 2000.

A little over seven years ago, Bill Clinton was elected President of the United States and even before he got into office, the Clinton haters started their campaigns of "Let's get Bill Clinton". Mind you this was long before Travel Gate, any of the other "Gates", Monica Lewensky or any of his other alleged or real Presidential transgressions. The political right put him at the top of their hit list before he even took the oath of office.
And now, as he nears the end of his presidency, I'd like to reflect on Bill Clinton....Both of them!! Bill Clinton, the man and Bill Clinton, the President. Many right wing pundits would have us believe that they're one in the same, but they're not. In fact they're often as different as night and day.

To say that Bill Clinton, the man is not perfect would be much the same as saying the Chicago Bulls may not win the NBA championship this year. He's a long way from perfect. He's flawed in many respects (as are all of us in some way). He cheated on his wife and got caught, he lied about it and got caught, again. He was impeached by the Senate but still managed to retain his Presidency. He's a man who people say, with some justification, has lied to the American people. Well, hey, folks, this certainly can't be the man we want for our President. He's a scoundrel and should be booted out of office. Right?

But hold on. National polls put his Presidential (not his personal) popularity at over 70% immediately after his impeachment. How can this be? How, in God's name, can 70% of the population think he's doing a good job as President after all the dirty laundry we've uncovered about the man over the past seven years? The reason is as crystal clear as it is simple. We're not the sheep the right wing would like to believe we are, who can be herded around by a few clever political sheep dogs, otherwise known as hired spin doctors. The American public is quite capable of independent thought and, wonder of wonders, we can separate Clinton, the man from Clinton, the President.

The Republican party threw everything they had at Bill Clinton, the man and the President. Newt Gingrich took his best shots and is now out of political office. Bob Dole had his time at bat and he too is gone from the political scene (although he seems to have found new life as a Viagra salesman). Ken Starr, the right wing's hired political assassin, spent five years and an ungodly amount of our money to dig up all of the dirt he could on Clinton and, other than the Monica Lewinsky scandal and it's aftermath, he found nothing behind the innuendoes and accusations that could be deemed as criminal behavior by Bill or Hillary Clinton. He found nothing in White Water (the only area he was originally chartered to investigate), travel Gate, File Gate or any other "Gate". My God, it's a wonder Starr didn't try to blame the problems of Bill Gates on Clinton.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the United States economy and the welfare of it's citizens was booming like never before as the stock market reached all time new highs, inflation was in check, unemployment had all but disappeared, the national debt was finally under control, and the country was enjoying its greatest period of prosperity in decades. Coincidence, you say? I think not.

As the majority of our citizens were able to clearly see for themselves, Bill Clinton may not be terribly good for himself, but he and his Presidency, have been very good for the United States. He has proven to be an extremely capable leader, both at home and abroad. As a country, we're much better off today than we were when George Bush, Senior left office.

http://www.kenkreps.com/2clinton.htm

It is pitiful how many simple minded easily led people believed these Right wing blood suckers and the Hate radio shows that backed them.

frosty,

FU and president cheney and vice president bush (the dummy).

Lieberman, the only grown man to sport facial baby fat. A clear sign that the man doesn't lift a finger unless it is absolutely necessary.

I am so sick of these simple minded repigs, When are they going to grow up?

A little over seven years ago, Bill Clinton was elected President of the United States and even before he got into office, the Clinton haters started their campaigns of "Let's get Bill Clinton". Mind you this was long before Travel Gate, any of the other "Gates", Monica Lewensky or any of his other alleged or real Presidential transgressions. The political right put him at the top of their hit list before he even took the oath of office.

Here's a theory. The conservatives, though thwarted by our former president Bush, still wanted into Iraq and hoped to get there by forcing Bill Clinton out of office prematurely.

Frosty and pUSs,

I guess I have to say it louder!

FUCK YOU BOTH!!!!!!!

Their shared blow up cheney doll exploded and blew out their brains or a facsimile thereof HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa.

- Most number of convictions and guilty pleas by friends and associates*

BS. That record is held by RAY-GUN. Drop Drudge and learn to read FACTS.

As for the most "investigations".. Well, DUH! The Pugs went after anybody they could...

AND NOTHING CAME OF IT.

- Number of individuals and businesses associated with the cheney machine who have been convicted of or pleaded guilty to crimes: 10,000

- Number of these convictions during chimps mis- presidency: 20,000

- Number of indictments/misdemeanor charges: 50,000

- Number of congressional witnesses who have pleaded the Fifth Amendment, fled the country to avoid testifying, or (in the case of foreign witnesses) refused to be interviewed: 122,000

- Number of republic pedophiles prosected and pardoned by cheney: 1,345,783

-Number 0f lying sacks of shit in the cheney administration: 545,993,003,784

Okay, let's get beyond this clear demonstration of desperation on the part of the Bush administration. These people are clearly in such need of support that they feel it necessary to find it wherever possible and at whatever cost. View this as a positive sign, rather than as an annoyance.

I'm speaking of Libby's commuted sentence here, of course.

why are trolls such total assholes? Are they taking lessons from limpballs and handjobity?
I'll bet their parents are proud that they raised such total assholes.

Listen you all. It get's annoying watching these pukes come in here and stir up shit, when it clear to all who witness their antics that they desire nothing more. Leave them to their idiotic behavior, ignore them.

Remember, when an obnoxious child keeps doing something stupid for attention, he or she will stop (at some point, sooner or later depending upon their level of stubborness) if attention is not forthcoming.

Marine,

I hope you are right. The situation seems so hopeless sometimes.

hey Johnedwrd, DESPITE their lists of dirt they try and put together, THIS MAN STILL LEFT OFFICE WITH OVER 70% APPROVAL ! LET'S WATCH AND SEE WHAT BUSHIE LEAVES AT. Let's see what his list of accomplishments end up being.

hmmmmm, he is at 26% right now, let's see if he is in negatives by the time he gets out! hahaha

Like I said,

It is pitiful how many simple minded easily led people believed these Right wing blood suckers and the Hate radio shows that backed them.

Posted by PamB on July 3, 2007 at 07:46 PM

gotta log out John and Dawn and fine Dems.

the Stump grinding guy is here, and I have to go lead him around the grounds.

blog ya tomorrow...........

And we are most certainly dealing with children here, whether they appear to be children physical or not. They most certainly display the mental capacity of a toddler.

Have a nice night Pam.

Marine,

Right on!

Posted by Johnedwrd on July 3, 2007 at 08:09 PM

John, at the very least you may find some personal peace once you've managed to ignore their asinine comments.

Henry Hyde actually came out and said that the non-stop witch hunts of Clinton was QUOTE "Payback for Nixon".

What more do the trolls need to realize that THE MOST INVESTIGATED administration was guilty of NOTHING, and they had to put all of their cards on the President getting a blow job?

Let's put Gannon / Guckert on the stand and see just WHO HE was servicing every time Laura was hiding out chain smoking in Crapfest TX.

Is there any "question" why Chimpy didn't have sex with that cow until he was 40?

Too drunk and coked up? That don't fly.

I come here because you all make more sense than these idiots. That's why it troubles me when the idiots direct or influence the discussion. I'd rather not stick to right wing talking points, such as those these characters spew.

See retarded behavior, take a deep breath, allow your disgust to pass, and move on as if it never existed.

Goodnight Pam

Sorry, I'm writing that more for me than anyone else.

Don't you just love the way Pat Buchanan and Chris Matthews are trying to paint the Libby amnesty deal as a reluctant duty Bush had to perform. They want to believe so badly that Bush isn't a crook.

They've even make up several senarios to cover their doubts...like Cheney made Bush do it out of loyalty. Or that the neocons, The Weekly Standard, and the Wall Street Journal were insistent.

That Bush could be covering up for his own dirty deeds just can't possible fit the facts.

Yeah, Bush went to Walter Reed today and gave an explanation that was so pathetic it was laughable. The vets who weren't condemned to doing their rehab in the Bldg. 19 were really impressed that Libby won't have to do his time there.

He's a crook alright and his diehard media whore fans just can't let go of their dying dreams. They put the wrong guy on a pedestal and he stole it right out from under them. What a bunch of losers.

The Republicans are so corrupt and incompetent that Bush can't even grant a pardon without making it appear to be a dirty trick. It's always about covering their ass not admitting their wrong doings.

There will be no glory for the wicked, no Golden Age of Neocon Reason, no democracy in the Middle East...nor any mercy for them and their Congressional Republican enablers when the voters get done with them in 2008.

Think of this. Where are republicans most likely to be seen as a bad influence to Americans? Once you've found a good answer, talk about it.

Libby was only commuted in an act of desperation. In this way Bush hoped to win the support of a handful of extremeists.

HRES 333 should pass and the impeachment hearing of Cheney begin. Let's get to the bottom of what;s going on. If there's nothing solid, I'll live with that.

Libby was only commuted in an act of desperation. In this way Bush hoped to win the support of a handful of extremeists.

Posted by Marine on July 3, 2007 at 08:24 PM
****

Yes it's possible that he is playing to the base to help the GOP in 2008. The two idiots freddy boy and ghouliani agree with the commutation. That's fine. This is an issue that will be used against them in 2008. The polls show that this is not playing well for the GOP.

We received some very good and well studied suggestions for how we might better handle our troubles in Iraq. They involve improving our relationship with Iran, without delay. Extremeists here fight to ensure this is never possible. They seek to achieve this objective either through severe diplomatic pressures or, if all else fails, through military aggression.

This should remind you of the push for action inside Iraq. Their desire is once again to force our nation into a situation of no return.

Had Enough?
by WesClarkJr [Subscribe]
Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 01:29:35 PM PDT

Enough of seeing the Constitution trashed? Enough of the corruption? Enough of the war? Enough of the gutless response of our elected Democratic representatives?
WesClarkJr's diary :: ::

I don't think our reps read our e-mail or listen to our phone calls. Hell, they didn't even listen to the 2006 election in which we told them to stop the war. Scooter Libby is the last straw and I'm not going to take it anymore. I've had enough.

Cenk Uygur and I were talking this morning about what to do. We've decided it's time to tell America we've had enough. We'll be standing outside the Federal Building in West L.A. at the corner of Veteran and Wilshire for one hour this Sunday. If you'd like to join us, just wear a t-shirt or bring a sign that says you've had enough.

If you're not in L.A., just go to whatever the most common protest site is in your home city with a shirt or sign that says you've had enough from noon to one p.m. this Sunday. You don't have to march, chant, play drums, pass out pamphlets or build puppets (not that we're against those things). All you have to do is stand there with one word: enough.

Cenk and I don't care if we're the only two people there. We don't care because the next Sunday, each of us has pledged to bring two more people with us, and we'll ask them to make the same pledge. And we'll keep standing out there every single Sunday, doubling our numbers, from now until we've got so many people with us that we cannot be ignored.

So how about it? Have you had enough? Will you stand with us?

This is why Bush acted on conflicting intelligence reports and engaged Iraq. He didn't care what those reports eventually revealed. All that he did care about, because it was all that his supporters cared about, was that we became engaged in Iraq so deeply that we could not simply be removed. Drive an army to the point of no return and it has no choice but to succeed for its leader, succeed or die trying that is.

It is pitiful how many simple minded easily led people believed these Right wing blood suckers and the Hate radio shows that backed them.

Posted by PamB on July 3, 2007 at 07:46 PM

Most Americans like to think we are pious people. In reality we are just the opposite. As a capitalistic society intent on being #1 we have steam rolled over so many innocent, less agressive people in our pursuit of the good life.

We really aren't very nice unless we are made to face our demons ocassionally and made to feel guilty. God really has his hands full with us.

Libby commutation in conflict with recent Supreme Court decision
by TX AG Candidate Van Os [Subscribe]
Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 04:01:25 PM PDT

In a decision announced on June 21, 2007, the US Supreme Court in Rita v. United States upheld as reasonable under federal sentencing law a prison sentence of 33 months for the offense of perjury committed in testimony to a grand jury, which is virtually the same sentence imposed on Scooter Libby for the same offense.

The defendant Victor Rita was a 25-year military veteran with 35 commendations, awards and medals for his military service, and in poor medical condition. He contended that the length of his prison term was unreasonable in light of his exemplary service to the country and his health circumstances. The Supreme Court granted review in order to examine and clarify the issue of how to determine the reasonableness of a prison sentence.

Twelve days after the Supreme Court held as a matter of law that a sentence of 33 months of prison for perjury was reasonable for a decorated veteran in poor health, the president,

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/3/185322/9361

Operational intelligence gathered over the years told us that Iraqis were not motivated to support a mission to overthrow their government. It didn't matter how many times or how forcefully we attempted to instigate this, the support was simply not forthcoming. That is why the Bush administration was forced to rely upon the power of bribery to acquire intelligence to the contrary.

A leaflet campaign initiated in 1990 failed to win adequate support, as did a covert attempt to win the support of Kurds along the Iraqi border with Turkey.

Posted by rjsnj on July 3, 2007 at 08:31 PM

rjsnj,

Clark maybe on to something. Remember those women in South America who used to sit all day in a town square in protest of their missing (and presumed tortured and dead children) who had challenged a military junta?

Finally, people took notice and joined them. The rest is history including the military dictatorship they toppled. You can say so much by just showing up and defiantly remaining silent.

I hope MoveOn or some other group picks this up.

The Bush administration's desire to control Iraq thoroughly was so intense that it chose to ignore one of the first rules of engagement. You do not engage an enemy when that information you are provided is circumstantial at best. When it must be coerced from those considered to be possible friendly forces, it pays to be suspicious.

Clearly none of this information mattered to the Bush administration. It felt that it was in the right and that is all that seemed to occur to those involved. A democratic decision by a democratic society this was not. This was instead the decision of a dictatorship, which we expect to be faulty.

Attorneys see irony in Libby case

WASHINGTON - President Bush knew what he was getting in 2001 when he made Reggie B. Walton one of his first picks for a seat on the federal bench: a tough-on-crime judge with a reputation for handing down stiff sentences.

A former deputy drug adviser, federal prosecutor and Superior Court judge, Walton seemed a perfect fit for the new president. And Walton didn't disappoint, proving to be exactly the kind of no-nonsense judge Bush was looking for.

Until now.

When erasing former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's 2 1/2-year prison term in the CIA leak case, Bush said Walton was being too harsh.

"The point here is to do what is consistent with the dictates of justice," said White House Press Secretary Tony Snow.

Walton, the son of a steel worker who turned a hardscrabble upbringing into a legal career, declined Tuesday to discuss the case or his views on sentencing.

"To now say anything about sentencing on the heels of yesterday's events will inevitably be construed as comments on the president's commutation decision, which would be inappropriate," the judge said in an e-mail.

But attorneys noted some irony in Bush's decision to override Walton.

"The party who appointed him is now unhappy with what he appointed him to do," said Scott L. Fredericksen, a defense attorney who served as a prosecutor under every president since Ronald Reagan.

Also noteworthy, defense attorneys said, was seeing the White House urge leniency just weeks after the Bush administration announced a tough new crime bill that would bar judges from going easy on criminals. They would be free to impose longer sentences, but not shorter ones.

To hear Snow tell it, Walton ignored the recommendation of probation officials and sentenced Libby to prison. That isn't what happened. Probation officers recommended Libby serve 15-21 months. Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald recommended more than 30 months. Libby's attorneys asked for probation.

Walton accepted Fitzgerald's interpretation of the law, which said Libby should be sentenced more harshly because of the seriousness of the investigation he obstructed.

The 2 1/2 years handed Libby was much like the sentences given others convicted in obstruction cases. Federal court records indicate that 382 people were convicted for obstruction of justice over the past two years. Three of four were sent to prison. The average prison term was 64 months, more than five years. The largest group of defendants drew prison terms ranging from 13 months to 31 months.

"This is sort of a standard sentence in that situation," said defense attorney Mark H. Tuohey. "Call it what you want, but that's what it is. This was not some out-of-the-blue-sentence."

For those of you too trusting of our leadership to believe that such corruption could possibly exist in the White House, ever, consider this. If you are correct, and the administration made the decisions that it has made, fully expecting promises issued to be fulfilled, then why has not one of those promises been fulfilled to a point at or significantly near to the extent proposed? Is it simply that this collection of leaders is incompetent, and is that in itself not reason enough to limit their influence in this nation?

OLBERMANN'S "SPECIAL COMMENT" COMING UP IN THE CENTRAL TIME ZONE!!

Clark maybe on to something. Remember those women in South America who used to sit all day in a town square in protest of their missing (and presumed tortured and dead children) who had challenged a military junta?
****

Sandy, indeed I do. You are talking about the "Mothers of the Disappeared" in Pinochet's Chile.

By the way, Bush admires Pinochet's social security privatization ...

Figures right.

Oh manno, Olbermann is blasting Bush!!!

Impeach Chimpo

-There was a promise to continue work on the Isreali/Palestine peace process. That has failed miserably.

-There was a promise to work with the nations of the Middle East to eradicate terrorism. That appears to be failing, and even causing the outer reaches of those forces engaging in those actions to be expanded. The Taliban surges once again in Afghanistan, Al Queda and other forces are at work in Iraq. Also, the overall atmosphere in the Middle East has deteriorated with significant conflicts occurring in Lebanon.

Terrorists or terrorist copycats have now struck British sites on not one, not two, but three occasions.

"This is sort of a standard sentence in that situation," said defense attorney Mark H. Tuohey. "Call it what you want, but that's what it is. This was not some out-of-the-blue-sentence."

Posted by marsh_supports_bong_hits_for_jesus on July 3, 2007 at 08:47 PM
****

Did Olbermann just say Impeach? Yes!!!!

Resign Chimpo and Shotgun

OR

face Impeachment!

Dan Abrams is now whacking Bush!!!

The Chimp really went over the line now.

This is going to fuel the impeachment movement.

Impeach Chimpo
Impeach Shotgun

War is fine and good, when it accomplishes something positive. A military or diplomatic display of force is also good in this situation. The thing, however, to remember is that they are not always the solution to our problems. And when tested with negative results, we must be willing to adjust our strategy and to seek our objectives through other means. Improved diplomatic relations appear to offer the best alternative to the approach now used for six or more years with limited or negative results.

Judiciary Hearing Scheduled
by mcjoan
Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 05:56:50 PM PDT

From Chairman Conyers:

Today, House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, Jr. announced that he will be holding a full committee hearing next week titled, "The Use and Misuse of Presidential Clemency Power for Executive Branch Officials." The hearing will be held next Wednesday, July 11, at 10:15 am in the committee’s hearing room, 2141 Rayburn House Office Building.

"In light of yesterday’s announcement by the President that he was commuting the prison sentence for Scooter Libby, it is imperative that Congress look into presidential authority to grant clemency, and how such power may be abused," Conyers said. "Taken to its extreme, the use of such authority could completely circumvent the law enforcement process and prevent credible efforts to investigate wrongdoing in the executive branch."

The hearing begins next Wednesday, July 11 at 10:15 a.m. Eastern. Jane and Marcy will be liveblogging it for FDL. Stock up on popcorn.

Now, the conservatives suggested that the number of terrorists attacks suffered American targets prior to the Bush administrations time in the White House was excessive and required a more intense response. We have now tried their approach for six years only to discover that the number of terrorist attacks on American targets has skyrocketted. Incidents like the USS Cole bombing or the bombing of the US Embassy in Africa occur on a regular basis in both Afghanistan and Iraq, despite the insistence that we enjoy the support of local governments in both locations.

for those who, like me, are away from a television...

Olbermann: Bush, Cheney should resign

I accuse you, Mr. Bush, of lying this country into war.

I accuse you of fabricating in the minds of your own people, a false implied link between Saddam Hussein and 9/11.

I accuse you of firing the generals who told you that the plans for Iraq were disastrously insufficient.

I accuse you of causing in Iraq the needless deaths of 3,586 of our brothers and sons, and sisters and daughters, and friends and neighbors.

I accuse you of subverting the Constitution, not in some misguided but sincerely-motivated struggle to combat terrorists, but to stifle dissent.

I accuse you of fomenting fear among your own people, of creating the very terror you claim to have fought.

I accuse you of exploiting that unreasoning fear, the natural fear of your own people who just want to live their lives in peace, as a political tool to slander your critics and libel your opponents.

I accuse you of handing part of this Republic over to a Vice President who is without conscience, and letting him run roughshod over it.

And I accuse you now, Mr. Bush, of giving, through that Vice President, carte blanche to Mr. Libby, to help defame Ambassador Joseph Wilson by any means necessary, to lie to Grand Juries and Special Counsel and before a court, in order to protect the mechanisms and particulars of that defamation, with your guarantee that Libby would never see prison, and, in so doing, as Ambassador Wilson himself phrased it here last night, of becoming an accessory to the obstruction of justice.

National-Security Breaches: Time for Impeachment
Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2007-07-04 00:19. Impeachment

By Bernard Weiner, Crisis Papers

By taking impeachment "off the table," Nancy Pelosi and John Conyers may have made partisan sense during the run-up to the November 2006 midterm election -- the Dems didn't want to scare away any wavering Republicans. Perhaps it even made sense in the first few months of their new majority status in Congress. But it's now mid-2007 and a whole lot of awful, fetid water has flowed under the political bridge in the interim.

It's long past time for Dem leaders to re-think their strategy on this issue, and to use the great leverage their majority status now conveys -- much of that leverage inadvertently supplied by Bush and Cheney themselves -- to help protect the American people from the Administration's dangerous policies.

The old issues are still there and together would make up formidable reasons to begin impeachment hearings in the House. But some or all of those highly-publicized issues (lying to take the country to war, U.S. attorneys scandal cover-up, torture as state policy, widespread domestic spying without court warrants, et al.) might not fly with many Republicans. They can choose to believe that the Administration has the right to be wrong in its policies but are not generally engaged in anything that would rise to the "high crimes and misdemeanors" required for impeachment.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24284

Olbermann: Bush, Cheney should resign
****

Thx Marsh, I was looking around for that. Olbermann really blasted the Chimp.

AND

So did Joe Wilson:

CNN American Morning: Joe Wilson Blasts President on Libby
By: Nicole Belle on Tuesday, July 3rd, 2007 at 3:30 PM - PDT

(thanks to CTblogger for video)

It was just pointed out to me again just how unwilling the media continues to remain to characterize anything this administration does in a negative light…note at approximately 3:12 point in the interview, John Roberts tries to get Joe Wilson to guess as to why Fitzgerald didn’t go after Armitage for the leak and says that despite Armitage’s participation being known before Libby allegedly perjured himself. Allegedly??? Um, maybe the Bush administration has seriously compromised the criminal justice system more than I realized, but doesn’t a CONVICTION indicate that it’s no longer alleged, but proven?? (h/t BG)

UPDATE: CREW has Joe Wilson’s response to that Tony Snow Lie-Fest this morning.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2007/07/03/cnn-american-morning-joe-wilson-blasts-president-on-libby/

Our men and women, though not dying at rate similar to that experienced during the Vietnam War, are none the less dying at a significant rate. Worse still, those they were sent to help in Iraq are dying or being injured by the war-like atmosphere there at an alarming rate, and many blame us for that.

Here is the most signifcant problem. It isn't how we see ourselves, but how others see us because they will decide whether or not they take up arms against the United States or simply engage in diplomatic attempts to supress our influence in their part of the world.

It is also frightening when you consider the fact that three well-to-do doctors were involved in a recent attempt to upset Brits with a terrorist type attack. Doctors, men and women sworn to do no harm, were involved in the planning of a terrorist strike that was meant to kill or mame hundreds of innocent people.

In case you hadn't noticed, this is significantly more alarming than the prospect of a terrorist attack on a US Embassy situated in a not so stabile region of Africa. This attack was to be carried out on the soil of our most determined ally.

The Bush Constitution - Preamble

Me, the Decider of the United States, in order to scorn a more perfect system, abolish Justice, insure domestic inequity, provide for deceitful defense, promote the corporate welfare and insure the debasement of Liberty for ourselves, our friends and our non-taxable posterity, do disdain and demolish this Constitution of the United States of America.

We can only conclude at this point that the approach currently being used to reduce the threat due to terrorism has actually served to increase it.

Improved diplomatic relations appear to offer the best alternative to the approach now used for six or more years with limited or negative results.

Posted by Marine on July 3, 2007 at 09:06 PM

I agree 100%. Franklin Roosevelt operated in a manner that brought success to his efforts in ending the depression. He would try one program and if that failed, he would then try another. He had humility enough to mold his efforts to the task at hand.

chimp is too stubborn and arrogant to change his his mind on anything. After all, he doesn't want to be accused of flip-flopping. Heavens to Betsy. That would expose him to ridicule by the party extremists who hate "flip-flopping".

This attack was to be carried out on the soil of our most determined ally.

Posted by Marine on July 3, 2007 at 09:20 PM
****

Marine, all it proves to me is that there is no such thing as "fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them at home".

Yes indeed, it's disturbing that well educated people would participate in such an attack. It shows the degree of anger and alienation that exist amongst people who live in Western nations.

All that Bush is doing is making more enemies and stoking that sense of anger and alienation. This is the most destructive, boorish and divisive President in our history.

They can choose to believe that the Administration has the right to be wrong in its policies but are not generally engaged in anything that would rise to the "high crimes and misdemeanors" required for impeachment.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24284

Posted by rjsnj on July 3, 2007 at 09:14 PM

There is only one way to find out, and if it offers the US a chance to move forward sooner rather than later, given the dynamic nature of threats of facing us, it's better to find out sooner.

There is only one way to find out, and if it offers the US a chance to move forward sooner rather than later, given the dynamic nature of threats of facing us, it's better to find out sooner.

Posted by Marine on July 3, 2007 at 09:31 PM
****

Marine, as you know, I am in favor of proceeding on HRES 333. That is not impeachment per se. First, the Judiciary Committee must hold a hearing to determine if there really is something solid to proceed on. I'll live with their decision.

I agree that there is no way of knowing except to move forward on a hearing where subpoeans can not be ignored. If they are ignored, it;s grounds to move forward on impeachment.

Posted by marsh_supports_bong_hits_for_jesus on July 3, 2007 at 09:13 PM

I couldn't have said it better.

Olbermann and the guy filling in for Scarborough are both letting go with both barrels at Bush tonight.

And they have another Republican apologist on Scarborough saying that Libby didn't do anything wrong....that he was just doing what Richard Armitage did first. That is so grade school. Only children offer that kind of defense when caught ly