Good morning, everyone.

Did we expect anything different?

There's is more than enough time to impeach these bozos and get people elected. Come on this is ridiculous. When do election cycles need to start 18 months in advance. I refuse to get sucked up into this. I suspected from the outset that the GOP was doing this (extending the campaign cycle) on purspose just to distract us.

I think we can forget about getting much done in Congress. It's going to be either a bad compromise with Chimpy - no more of that! - or just get filibustered / vetoed. We might as well turn to impeachment.

Posted by rjsnj on July 3, 2007 at 07:39 AM

It's both sides. The election cycle began before the ink dried on the the official results from the Nov. '06 election.

Over the next month, I'm scheduled to speak to the democratic base (16 counties) about the grassroots campaign we have established for Z. There goes (almost) every evening through the work week for me. I'm taking off a week to get ready for our wedding though. ;)

ah, come on, Steph! let my post go through. It's been one hellofa weekend and starting off to be a difficult week as well.

(what doesn't kill us makes us stronger...and all that jazz)

Posted by SandyH July 2, 2007 at 8:35PM
This a great post Sandy, I hope that when you come in, you will repost it here for those who may have missed it....Thanks

Ghouliani thinks Bush made a good call on Libby.

Bush:Libby::Guiliani:Kerick

If "all" Libby did was to lie to FBI agents and a Grand Jury "all" Bernie did was to "house" the coin boxes of vending machines at Rikers and invite the Sammy the Bull wing of the Mafia into Gracie Mansion.

Bush and the Ghoul are cut from the same cloth, the bolt for Bush was from Savile Row, the one for the Ghoul was from John's Bargain Store but in both cases the product was horseshit.

guiliani (and the others who agree) are only pandering to the hard right. gotta keep their base happy.

message to dems: work harder, laugh longer.

p.s. I have a concern about those who say they won't vote for Clinton if she gets the nod...that they will vote for the ghoul instead. (3rd party doesn't appear on all states ballots)

by mcjoan
Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 06:26:39 PM PDT

Mark Halperin on The News Hour just said that Bush was playing to his base, that he was making a lot of Republicans happy.

Maybe not so much. Check out this rushed SUSA poll, via TPMCafe:

• 60% say the prison sentence should have been left in place.
• 21% agree with the commutation.
• 17% say Libby should have been pardoned entirely.

The kicker for Bush and the GOP? A high percentage of respondents, relatively, knew about the case--55 percent. More Republicans than one would expect felt the prison sentence should have been kept in place--40 percent, fairly high considering they're GOP. They can kiss independents good-bye again: 56 percent said the commutation was wrong.

****

Well, here's one prediction. Expect to see Chimpy drop another 2-3 percent in the polls. How low can Chimpy go? I am convinced he will break all records for unpopularity right up to his impeachment.

It's both sides. The election cycle began before the ink dried on the the official results from the Nov. '06 election.
****

Yes I know but come on do you ever recall a time when campaigning for president started so early?
I just won't get drawn into it or spend money right now. Let the pugs campaign. I just don't care as they show themselves to be complete idiots everytime they open their mouths.

Get impeaching now!

Fitzgerald Reacts
by mcjoan
Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 05:58:32 PM PDT

FDL has Fitzgerald's statement:
We fully recognize that the Constitution provides that commutation decisions are a matter of presidential prerogative and we do not comment on the exercise of that prerogative.
We comment only on the statement in which the President termed the sentence imposed by the judge as "excessive." The sentence in this case was imposed pursuant to the laws governing sentencings which occur every day throughout this country. In this case, an experienced federal judge considered extensive argument from the parties and then imposed a sentence consistent with the applicable laws. It is fundamental to the rule of law that all citizens stand before the bar of justice as equals. That principle guided the judge during both the trial and the sentencing.
Although the President’s decision eliminates Mr. Libby’s sentence of imprisonment, Mr. Libby remains convicted by a jury of serious felonies, and we will continue to seek to preserve those convictions through the appeals process.

For all of the citizens of the United States, the imposition of a sentence that is consistent with the sentencing guidelines makes it "presumptively reasonable." At least that's what the Roberts Court said just last month in Rita v. United States.

That's for all the regular folks, but not for the Special Assistant to the President and chief of staff to the Vice President. At least not in BushCo. Paris Hilton and Martha Stewart should have been working in the administration.

Patrick Fitzgerald isn't happy...
by dmsilev [Subscribe]
Mon Jul 02, 2007 at 05:38:19 PM PDT

about being called, by implication, an excessively harsh prosecuter.
dmsilev's diary :: ::

via TPM, his statement:

We comment only on the statement in which the President termed the sentence imposed by the judge as “excessive.” The sentence in this case was imposed pursuant to the laws governing sentencings which occur every day throughout this country. In this case, an experienced federal judge considered extensive argument from the parties and then imposed a sentence consistent with the applicable laws. It is fundamental to the rule of law that all citizens stand before the bar of justice as equals. That principle guided the judge during both the trial and the sentencing.

Although the President’s decision eliminates Mr. Libby’s sentence of imprisonment, Mr. Libby remains convicted by a jury of serious felonies, and we will continue to seek to preserve those convictions through the appeals process.

So, he just called Bush a liar in not so many words. I wonder whether he's considering either reopening the probe or, alternatively, calling up Pat Leahy and John Conyers and say "so, what do you want to know?"

-dms

no, I don't remember it beginning so early, but then, I've never been this close in power politics either.

I respectfully disagree about impeachment.

Call the White House:

202-456-1111 9-5 EST

Fax number is: 202-456-2461

You can get through to the White House via fax any time.

President Bush is holding private meetings "over sodas and sparkling water" in which he asks trusted advisers -- "Why does the rest of the world seem to hate America? Or is it just me they hate?"

Perhaps some clarification is in order...

good morning, truthseekers

no, I don't remember it beginning so early, but then, I've never been this close in power politics either.

Posted by Esmeralda on July 3, 2007 at 08:23 AM
****

esmeralda, I been around it awhile. It's never began this early. The GOP did this on purpose to distract us from Bush and Iraq. Naturally, once one party does something, the other feels it must counter.

It is of course completely absurd. Very few people have sufficient spare cash to dump into politics 18 plus months before an election and even less are all that interested until a few months before the election. I suspect this may even turn some people off as they are overloaded with politics too soon ... maybe that's also part of the GOP's plan.

HONK TO IMPEACH

Americans celebrate July 4 as a day of patriotism, but the true spirit of July 4 has been lost. After all, July 4, 1776 was the day our Founding Fathers declared the American Revolution against King George!

Our ancestors won that revolution, but after 224 years King George came back through Texas. Fortunately we don't need to fight another revolution because the Founding Fathers gave us a Constitution with the power of impeachment. We just have to demand that our Representatives use their impeachment power to hold George Bush and Dick Cheney accountable for their crimes.

So let's use this July 4 to declare our independence from King George W - and let's make some noise!

Local impeachment activists report great success holding signs at busy intersections that say "HONK TO IMPEACH!" Most of the drivers who pass these signs are delighted to honk - which makes them happy and makes our activists happy too. Best of all, the drivers and pedestrians discover how much support there is for impeachment - something they never knew because the Corporate Media won't tell them or even conduct a poll. Here's a great report from Bob Feuer of Great Barrington, Mass: http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/honktoimpeach-1

July 4 is a great day to "HONK TO IMPEACH" because there's already lots of noise from fireworks and people are relaxed. So here's our plan:

rj, Kennedy announced in August that he was running before he won in November.

this is not wise and will disenfranchise more than energize, imho

we have 20 people for our corner...i'm looking forward to it

fireworks?

hope you will think twice before participating in the mini-bomb symbolism, and if you hang your flag, please do so properly to indicate distress

i am haunted by the "shock and awe" bombing, still...and we've certainly killed a million there and Iraq

read the declaration of independence and celebrate the holiday by taking bold action

IMPEACH

hey fade, great stuff...is it me? nooooooo its the salt water taffy we have been sending overseas the past two hunderd years....turns out it was all salt and no taffy....OF COURSE ITS YOU, YOU STUPID MORON! THE WHOLE WORLD THOUGHT IS STEPPED IN DOG POOP, CHECKED THE BOTTOM OF IT'S SHOE AND SAW YOUR FACE...

rj, Kennedy announced in August that he was running before he won in November.

this is not wise and will disenfranchise more than energize, imho
****

Hi fade!

Yes indeed I recall that well. It's was quite common to announce in the summer before an election. That's one reason why insane amounts of money were not spent back then.

American politics have gone completely nuts. It's way too much about money and with that latest rulings from the sick right wing supreme court that impairs mccain-feingold, it's even more about money.

From a practical stand-point, you just won't get many people to campaign for 2008 at this point. The candidates can build organizations, devise platforms, etc... I suppose some may get interested on door to door for the primaries ...
not too many from what I seen so far.

from Josh Marshall:

I hate to rain on the all Libby all the time parade, but there's something else you should know about, something which might be no less important.

In various posts over the last couple years I've pointed to the as-yet-too-little-investigated Pentagon dimension of the Duke Cunningham scandal. In brief, the Cunningham case appears to tie directly to efforts by top ranking Pentagon appointees, around and including Stephen Cambone, to set up their own domestic surveillance and spying operations. Key contracts for the CIFA (Counterintelligence Field Activity) program went to Cunningham's bribers. And there is good reason to believe that politicals at the DOD choose to ignore Duke's crimes in exchange for help running their programs outside of the safeguards in place in the rest of the intelligence community, and quite likely well outside the bounds of American law. In short, a big part of the scam may have been that Duke and his crooked pals got big bucks in exchange for helping Bush-appointees at the DOD spy on American citizens.

Now, one of these DOD programs was something called TALON (Threat and Local Observation Notice), a program to collect information on Americans involved in anti-war protests. This evening I saw this post from Emptywheel which discusses the recently release Pentagon IG report on the program (released June 27th).

There's quite a lot of interest contained in the report. But emptywheel immediately fixes on the key finding, or rather impediment to findings. In the report's words, "all TALON reports were deleted from their database in June 2006 with no archives."

In other words, right about the time the Cunningham prosecutors started seriously looking into this dimension of the case, and around the time information was starting to come out about the DOD's domestic 'surveillance' operations, somehow the entire record of the TALON program, every report that had been collected, was scrubbed.

Good morning Fade...hope you have a nice day!!

IMPEACH!

if you have an opportunity to see your representatives at an event, let them know how you feel...

J-Space voted against Rahm's proposal to cut off funding to the unitary Cheney's office

pfffffffft...not another nickel from me

have a powerful day, y'all

keep it lit~

read the declaration of independence and celebrate the holiday by taking bold action

IMPEACH

Posted by fade2bluz on July 3, 2007 at 08:35 AM
****

Darn right fade!

What's with Americans and fireworks anyway? I don't find the militaristic symbols all that appealing. I suppose the kids like to see them ...

As far as the flag goes, Americans should be ashamed at how they use the flag. A flag doesn't belong on your car getting battered by the elements. Show some real respect for it! No other country in the world acts this way. Jingoism and militarism.

good morning, John Boy!

you too--hope you can call the white house!

Now, one of these DOD programs was something called TALON (Threat and Local Observation Notice), a program to collect information on Americans involved in anti-war protests. This evening I saw this post from Emptywheel which discusses the recently release Pentagon IG report on the program (released June 27th).
****

fade, I recall reading about this a long time ago. So, these SOB's have been secretly diverting money to enact these spy programs. And we are still questioning whether impeachment is necessary? Come on, we need to stop making excuses. There's plenty of time until election '08. There's not much that we will get through the obstructionist GOP Congress. But, what's more important, our system of government is under attack by Bush-Cheney. They have made a mockery of the law.

Get impeaching! HRES 333 is on the table.

Snark warning on but funny in a twisted sort of way:

In Which Bush Just Goes Nuts
by djtyg [Subscribe]
Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 02:11:00 AM PDT

A future post from The New York Times, date October 2nd, 2007:

Bush Decides "I’m Doing Whatever I Want"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/3/5641/71990

****

Basically, the question remains - what will Bush-Cheney have to do before some Dems back impeachment? I truly hope we don't have to find out because I think it will be something incredibly awful ... by then, it may really be too late.

Impeach Bush and Cheney would be nice, but what you all fail to realize is that neocons and zionists are on top of both parties. Its worse than i thought with how close the north american union immigration bill almost passed. Scooter is another ploy to distract citizens. Its like distracting a baby with a shiny object.
Time to remove the neocons as well as campaign against their democrat allies such as Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton. Kucinich is the democrats most honorable candidate I suggest you guys start to back him more or were all screwed.

good morning! remember kids the next time the fbi brings you in for questioning ( thinking of dpd and pam mostly )

LOL, gregg,

I don't need to lie. I have all kinds of cyber abuse, harassment, stalking, racist remarks, homophobia(afraid of being a homosexual oneself), threats against bloggers, wishes for deaths, that I copy and send on periodically to add to their files. I tell them they can track these sub-humans and terrorists through the DNC. I stick to facts.

ok i am tired of hearing all the "serves at the pleasure of the president, it is his right to commute the sentence" crap. since this is a case that directly involves the VP and Mr Bush, he should have recused hinself as any judge would (since he is now part of the judicial branch" in any case he is personally involved in. this is worse than any fiction writer could get anyone to believe. we will break any law we want, you take the fall, i commute your sentence, later granting total amnesty and we all walk away scott free. i am pretty sure this is once again not how the constitution was meant to work. our founding fathers had no way of knowing these kind of fellas (as in good fellas) could get elected. i would bet the numbers 666 are somewhere in this story.

rj...I agree, given enough time, Cheney will attack Iran. He needs to be impeached now. But talking about it here won't get it done. What we need is to get moveon.org involved with a petition to Congress.

i would bet the numbers 666 are somewhere in this story.

Posted by jimmyc451 on July 3, 2007 at 09:09 AM

illegal immigration. chip us all, that will weed them out! (and it helps protect against voter fraud too.)

how can you get some clean, refreshing water without your daily ration programmed in?

it's more than just "the president of the united states", it's about world power.

Jimmy...every time I see Cheney's name. the numbers "666" come to mind....

"The president has utterly subverted the rule of law and the system of justice that has undergirded this country of ours for the past 220 years," Wilson said Tuesday on NBC's "Today" show.

why can't nancy say things like this instead of...
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., said Bush's decision showed the president "condones criminal conduct."

Nancy i know you are a politician, but moreso you are now a leader. get out there and lead and take no prisoners. the prize is the real united states.

Me gotta go, me o my o, see ya later at de by o

Some Email addresses and links for you all to be contacting:

Nancy Pelosi:
americanvoices@mail.house.gov

Harry Reid:
senator_reid@reid.senate.gov

Your Senator:
www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm?Orderby=State&sort=ASC

Your House Rep:

www.house.gov/writerrep

Just express outrage at Bush's act at excusing Treason in our country at a time of war.

Town councilman trying to make these hard working entrepaneurs (sp?) get rid of their trucks.

NEW ORLEANS - For proof that Hurricane Katrina is transforming the ethnic flavor of New Orleans — and creating altogether new tensions — look no further than the taco trucks.

Lunch trucks serving Latin American fare are appearing around New Orleans, catering to the immigrant laborers who streamed into the city in search of work after Katrina turned much of the place into a construction zone.

The trucks are a common sight in barrios from Los Angeles to New York, but controversial in a city still adapting to a threefold increase in Hispanics since Katrina.

Officials in suburban Jefferson Parish recently banned the trucks as eyesores and health hazards. New Orleans officials said they welcome the new business, but promised to make sure the number of vehicles does not exceed the municipal limit.

The mobile luncheonettes are operated mostly by Mexican and Central American families.

"I'm looking for an opportunity. That's why I left my country, and that's what led me here," said Maria Fuentes, 55, who came to the United States from Mexico a decade ago and settled in New Orleans after the storm. "This is the first time I've owned my own business and my dream is to have traditional restaurants, not trucks, all over this town."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070702/ap_on_re_us/katrina_hispanic_influx

Here's the GOOD news people. Even 68% of Republicans, plus 80% Independents DISAGREE with Bush on the Libby decision!

"Most Disagree With Bush's Libby Decision

A new SurveyUSA instant poll finds just 21% of Americans agree with President Bush's decision to commute Scooter Libby's prison sentence, 60% say Bush should have left the judge's prison sentence in place, and 17% wanted a full pardon.

Only those familiar with the case were asked to react to the President's action.

Partisan breakdown: 32% of Republicans agree with the President's decision, compared to 14% of Democrats and 20% of Independents.

http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fpoliticalwire.com%2Farchives%2F2007%2F07%2F02%2Fmost_disagree_with_bushs_libby_decision.html

We shall keep this out in front of the Voting public next year too, along with 3500+ US deaths for a lie, Katrina still a disaster, Corruption, economy, Gasoline prices, etc.

Posted by PamB on July 3, 2007 at 09:41 AM

Good morning, Bold. They are transporting my dad to Ross Heart Center and placing him in holding until they can do surgery. I'm hanging out waiting on word when it's scheduled. (neither hospital knows???)

Anyway, my older brother contracted cellulitis last year when he was working for a company to clean up the mess down in NO.

After President George W. Bush commuted the sentence of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, his former adviser and one-time Chief of Staff to Vice President Dick Cheney, a contender for the Democratic nomination for president in 2008 encouraged citizens to flood the White House with phone calls. A blogger raised the ante, and linked to an internal White House telephone directory so callers could reach beyond the White House's switchboard.

"Last week Vice President Cheney asserted that he was beyond the reach of the law. Today, President Bush demonstrated the lengths he would go to, ensuring that even aides to Dick Cheney are beyond the judgment of the law," Senator Joseph Biden (D-DE), a 2008 long shot, said in a statement he issued after Bush made his move. "It is time for the American people to be heard — I call for all Americans to flood the White House with phone calls tomorrow expressing their outrage over this blatant disregard for the rule of law."

One blogger followed up on Biden's suggestion and took it a step further. Lambert Strether at the blog CorrenteWire posted a link to the White House's full internal telephone directory in a Monday night entry.

"I figure the regular switchboard might be busy tomorrow, but if you’ve got the White House phone directory, you can just work your way down until somebody picks up," he wrote.

From all over the country, phone calls have flooded Washington in recent weeks. According to various news reports, part of the US Senate's phone system crashed in the wake of the contentious debate over immigration reform legislation.

"So many Senators' offices were inundated with calls, mostly in opposition, that the Senate telephone switchboard was shut down," Silia Brush reported in a June 29 US News and World Report article.

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Democrat_hopeful_calls_on_citizens_to_0703.html

here's the corrente blog:

http://correntewire.com/

Jacq, Good luck with your Dad. Thoughts are with you. I can believe that about your brother, conditions are supposed to still be horrendous. thank goodness these latinos are such a hard working community.

Goos Morning, ALL!

Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. is calling for the House to begin investigations immediately with the express purpose of building a case for impeachment proceedings to start ASAP.

It's not about Libby, but th entire corruption of the Office of the President. Libby was the last straw.

Posted by goodfoe on July 3, 2007 at 03:05 AM

did you also predict that Skooter would skate? If you did, I'm going to start reading your posts more closely for your wise thoughts.

I've been trying to figure out just "which" news caster (the David Schuster kind) that also make good predictions (as they MAY have a better history than I)

Even though I dislike Pat Buchanan's politics I usually find him to be quite candid and you can tell when he's BSing as he always grins. Chris Matthews is almost ALWAYS WRONG! Keith was GREAT last night but rarely predicts.

Just wondering if the rest of you here (non trolls) would like to give me their thoughts. Please. Don't just say they're ALL liars or part of the machine. I know that but SOME of them can be quite the "bell weather" ya know?

so WHO are they?

Thanks to all who reply! Oh and HUGS and Goede Dag!

Fighting them over there so they won't come over here? That's a crock! Bush has spawned a whole new Arena for Al Qaeda now. Where there were NONE, now they are setting up training camps and recruiting guys from around the world. Thanks for helping out these guys, Bush! You have turned this world into a huge Terrorist playground.

Al Qaeda In Iraq Behind U.K. Bomb Plot?
Sources Tell CBS News Suspects Recruited By Leader Of Terror Group's Iraq Branch

http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbsnews.com%2Fstories%2F2007%2F07%2F03%2Fterror%2Fmain3010835.shtml

Besides saying that Clinton did it...what our friends on the right are saying about the commutation of Scooters sentence....

I thought we were the loonie left but these guys have us beat hands down with logic that defies gravity.

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/07/02/breaking-bush-commutes-libbys-sentence/#comments

On July 2nd, 2007 at 6:17 pm, citizen said:
Bush should have pardoned the man. It was a political witch hunt and Libby should not have been harmed by the out of control prosecuter. It just goes to show you that the only right you have left is the right to remain silent. Libby should have shut his mouth on the grounds that everything he said would be used against him.

He was railroaded on phoney baloney charges and Bush should have cut him loose so the sicko prosecuters don’t get rewarded.

Libby didn’t do anything wrong. The prosecuter and the entire court system is untrustworthy and shameful. It’s as if Nyquist (sp) had won.

shame shame shame on Bush for deserting a loyal friend..,

Why is Hillary leading Democratic polls? Does the base realize that there are independents and left leaning republicans who will never, never vote for Hillary? It seems like the base is setting up the nomination for failure. We need to start thinking like the republicans. Why do you think Guiliani is leading their polls? Let's be practical here. If we know that a majority (52%) of those polled will NEVER vote for Hillary if she is nominated, then why are we promoting her as the eventual candidate. This is driving me crazy!

morning dave:

does it say any of those wackos were from MN? :)

I DO agree to an extent with the one guy who says our court system is untrustworthy and shameful........ The Supreme Court is very, very shameful! Practicing politics and Religion!

bbl,

I'll vote for BOZO if he's a democrat over THIS CROOKED ADMINISTRATION!!

give me a frigging BREAK buffalobs

It just goes to show you that the only right you have left is the right to remain silent.
Posted by gnois on July 3, 2007 at 10:20 AM

Even the neocon wing nuts know that we are losing all our rights!

Call the switchboard and have them direct you to YOUR Senator and do what I just did! Even though DOLE is a PUG I still called and gave her office a PIECE of my MIND about her crooked PRESIDENT.

1-202-224-3121

I just got the number from the Lionel Show.... hehe.

Good morning, all.

fade,

Funny how we all forgot that TALON stuff. I suppose there have been so many other unconstitutional outrages and this disastrous Iraqi occupation taking place to divert our attention.

Shortly before this was unearthed a few years ago, a friend in the animal rights movement (I applaud the activism but am not a fan) warned that there was something strange going on with the surveillance of their work other than that being done by the FBI.

Sure enough, the NSA and other rouge spying operations were operating illegally with the approval and full support of the President...without oversight by the Congress. Jay Rockefeller was so alarmed with the few glimpses he got that he wrote a letter to Bush and made sure it was archived for posterity.

We need to keep our ears to the grapevine. With only 18 months to the coming change in power at the White House, those who have been abusing this system within the executive branch (and the Cheney branch of shadow government) must be desperate to find a way to keep from being brought to justice someday.

The President's action yesterday was the act of a trapped animal. Now that Libby has been set free to moon the judge who sentenced him, it also frees those who have been legally tied down to go after him in other ways.

Those who say they are strict constructionists probably are already ahead of us on this. I think those who truly believe in the Constitution and our system of check and balances may be working as stealthily as the TALON operatives were.

I know there are those among the conservatives who are as determined as us to correct the abuses that have led to a weakened military, politicalized DOJ, nonexistent diplomatic corps, and the integrity of our intelligence agencies.

We are not alone in recognizing the threat to our Republic. There is more than one way to skin a mink/skunk. When the Right and Left are forced to come together to insure political stability, you know it could be the makings of a perfect storm for those who think they are unsinkable.

Have faith in what our founding fathers created. We might have to be a little creative, but the inner workings are there to right this offense against the rights of the many by the arrogance and corruption of the few.

Essie,

My thoughts are with you and your family.

Gotta run. later.

Does the base realize that there are independents and left leaning republicans who will never, never vote for Hillary?

do you realize those people who say they are left leaning repubs will never ever vote dem?

I saw an interesting post at TPM that sums up why Libby won't get a full pardon until Chimpy is walking out the door.

All the more reason to get rid of the Chimp ASAP

Posted by Dawnie on July 3, 2007 at 10:34 AM

Atrios posted last night that the WH shut down their switchboard to the public comments number.

I just heard 5 minutes ago (on the Stephanie Miller show without Stephanie) that they shut it down AGAIN this morning!

I just called that number I listed and got right through. Lionel show said it was cuz the other was shut down indeed. This is for the switchboard of all the Senators. The lady that first picked up was chuckling. I guess she was all of a sudden getting lots of calls and was seemingly all FOR IT.

I of course ranted with her for a bit too. hehe.

I did not predict that Bush would let Scooter skate. Until the court said he had to go to prison "right now" there was no need for such a prediction. I felt that Bush would give him a full pardon at the end of Bush's term. I still think this will happen. Cheney has his shotgun stuck in Bush's ear. They have to give Scooter a full pardon in return for him keeping his mouth shut. Or kill him. That's also a possibility.

I agree Buffalo. Hillary is too devisious and has too much baggage to be a viable candicate.

what baggage? i don't understand the hatred of hillary. was it universal health care? staying married through bad times? (i thought that was the christian thing to do) i understand if you don't agree with some of her ideas, but what "baggage" and what are some of her ideas you disagree with?

No one is more outraged over the Libby commutation, but let's be honest there is no legal or constitution basis for removing the President because what he did is neither a "high crime or misdemeanor." And last time I checked, there is no provision in the const. for recalling an elected president. Besides, we would have to remove the entire administration, because Cheney would serve until articles of impeachment are passed for him as well. I don't even want to entertain that notion.

What I think is more important is to solidify the next presidential election. I don't think Senator Clinton does that. Ok, since some have said rep. will never vote for a democrat, then how about this point, some democrats will never vote for Senator Clinton. They will simply stay home. We all know that republicans will mobilize their base to vote. We cannot afford to lose any voters through disaffection. Again, we need to be pragmatic!

That's also a possibility.

Posted by goodfoe on July 3, 2007 at 10:49 AM

scary!

Hey goodfoe, was that you who signed a guest book recently? :-] Thanks!

So no one thinks ANY news broadcasters are candid and good predictors? bummer. How about Mike Barnicle (sp)?

Posted by BuffaloGrover on July 3, 2007 at 10:50 AM

(Nice town, BTW).

Then work for someone else. The Primary is 2-05-07.

my post at 10:49 was for Dawnie....sorry 'bout that

Posted by BuffaloGrover on July 3, 2007 at 10:50 AM

(Nice town, BTW).

Then work for someone else. The Primary is 2-05-08.

No one is more outraged over the Libby commutation, but let's be honest there is no legal or constitution basis for removing the President because what he did is neither a "high crime or misdemeanor."
i disagree and with a special investigator with the agresiveness of ken starr, i think more of the truth would get out and we could be done with both of these guys. nothing could be worse than watching rove, GW and shotgun walk away laughing in a year.

I'm no uber fan of Hill's.

I'm an UBER GORE and CLARK fan. But since they're NOT running....... any of the rest are fine with me. Looks like Obama had a spectacular quarter in raising cash. And it seems Edwards has some real fans over at Air America. I like Richardson a lot too. It's all GOOD on our side is my point.

I KNOW, 08.

Dawn, Cliff Schecter is good. Jack Cafferty, there are a few others, but I don't pay attention to their names because I'm not into Celebrity Journalists. The message is more important than the messenger.

Whether you like the Final Candidate for Presidency in the General Election or Not----REMEMBER THIS!

If the Dems through biting off their noses to spite their face, allows another Republican to get in office, say goodbye to those rights we have all enjoyed all our lifetime. Watch the SCOTUS turn totally Red, FOR THEIR LIFETIME appointments. Watch the Republicans tear down civil rights, workers rights, medicare, SS, disability, children care, elderly care, etc.

If Hillary is the one on the ballot- Hold your nose and pull that lever! Remember it is only for a 4 or 8 year term. SCOTUS is your Lifetime! And your children's and grandchildren's!

And I am not promoting any candidate at this point, but I will tell you that Hillary Clinton is a very intelligent woman, savvy in foreign policy , economy, health care, etc, and we could do a lot worse than her, also!

Yes Dawnie, I signed your guest book...real nice URL<...I wish I was talented like that.

gotta run to the ATM and a few chores. Gonna go see Sicko this afternoon. Should be entertaining. My sister and I taking her grandkids with us. Fine little Democrats in the making!

DPD

they don't give Jack (x pug) Cafferty enough air time on CNN. You are right he is very candid. I was just wondering cuz you always hear people like Tweety saying "you watch, I predict this" or "I bet that" or "I was RIGHT last year when I said this or that"

I want to know WHO really WAS right! lol besides us the general public who saw this Iraq war coming BEFORE it ever happened

Posted by jimmyc451 on July 3, 2007 at 10:49 AM

It's not hatred. That's a pretty strong word and personally, badly used.

But, I'll tell you what I think it is and as humbly as possible.

Hillary is more of the same and what I mean by that is Washington establishment. Perhaps the most telling was her back down on National Healthcare and her now reciprical agreements for campaign finance from the very same people she had campaigned against.

In addition, she was a Iraq hawk. I know that sounds harsh but she gave her full support to the cheesebrain. There was plenty of evidence at the time to reconsider that support and I don't buy that the democrats who supported the invasion of Iraq were give bad intelligence. There was plenty of reports that were contrary to that. It's only surfaced just recently that almost none of our representatives read the NIE report.

She's in that soup and it's unfortunate.

Posted by goodfoe on July 3, 2007 at 11:03 AM

yes I'm all dressed up for the holiday!

I refuse to let the PUGlik'ns claim my 4th of July!

Most of THEM are chickenhawks, they have little right to it!

New thread for Libby comments.

First off she's too closely associated with Bill. He alienated many of us with his behavior in office. Granted, she stuck by his side but whether it was love or fear of losing his political base is an unknown.
Her vote to go to war against Iraq is another issue. Whether you agree with her decision and then reversing herself, many of us will remember her decision.

Posted by PortlandAnnie on July 3, 2007 at 11:02 AM

Annie,

Not only did Bill leave office with a 67% approval rating, he is now sought out and beloved by the entire world. He is working on International global issues because he cared about and was respected worldwide. He will be remembered as one of the best Presidents, despite his indescretion. I will take his bj and even lying about it, over Bush's lies and killing of 3500+ US boys anyday.

and as for Democrats voting for this invasion and then reversing, we have ALL of the Democratic candidates who were in office at the time doing the same exact thing. No one said anything about Edwards when he changed his mind. Hillary says if she had the vote to do over, knowing what they all know today, she would not have voted for it. What more do we ask of her? They were lied to, plain and simple. Hillary more than the others must show a show of strength if she wishes to be considered a player for Leader of the Free World. Cut her some slack !

Joe Wilson: Bush has "utterly subverted the rule of law and system of justice" and has role in the cover up

Pam, I agree with you completely...if Hillary gets the nomination, then she's it and I will vote for her. A lot can happen between now and the general election. Obama is raising money like crazy and money translates into votes. Edwards could skin everybody in the early going and gain momentum and cash. Who knows how it will all turn out? Not me! so, I'm keeping my powder dry and will support whoever the nominee is. Any of them are much better than John, Ruddy or Fred!!!

Good morning all. I hope you all have a productive day and holiday tomorrow.

Dawnie...If you are "all decked out" for the 4th, you should take a picture of your 4th of July outfit and put that on your website too....Later....

lol goodfoe no I meant my WEBSITE was decked out.

pahaha! no not me! off to brunch (er lunch) whoa what HAPPENED to the day?

I need fuel

Peace all!

So which Dem DO you support?

The latest on scooter was that he was going to sing like a canary so I can imagine the all out panic at the white house. Not surprised that bush keeps scooter out of prison where he belongs. Actually he should have to stand in front of a firing squad for treason with many others involved in this!

I pretty much agree with everyone here. There is no real baggage for Hillary, other than her association with a galvanizing administration. Bill Clinton was a fantastic president, but the mere mention of his name sends a lot of people into convulsions. The same is true with Hillary. I've had debate, after debate about how irrational people's hatred of Hillary is, but it all boils down to a visceral reaction probably because she is the wife of a powerful man. No matter what, they will not like Hillary. If that is true, then why not back a candidate who does not evoke such aversion.

Oh, and where Hillary does drive me crazy is in her use of rovian campaign tactics. There isn't a reasonable person who thinks the "punjab" article was a personal attack on Hillary. It was a staffer's stupid attempt at wit. Yet, it became an attack point by the Clinton campaign and the true issue became buried. I wish they elevate the debate, not drag it down for political hay.

It’s easy to be a Monday morning quarterback and say that you’d not vote for the war now that it’s gone bad but that’s just CYA tactics. They blew it the first time, no denying that!

Posted by PortlandAnnie on July 3, 2007 at 11:28 AM

You are so right, and likely doing the same thing. I was against the war from the start, even refusing to watch any of the glorified killings on TV that had the nation enthralled. Your neighbors were for it. At some point though, you have to give them some props for realizing they made a mistake. Edwards apologized.

Most of those in Congress were so wrapped up in the whole 9/11 bravado that swept the nation that they were only doing the GPs bidding. What it comes down to is that by holding every candidate to the standard of "did you vote for the invasion" narrows the pool to a shallow puddle.

Just my .02. bbl.

Canadian soldier died by friendly fire: U.S. report. A U.S. army report made public Monday said it was friendly fire that killed a Canadian soldier and an American soldier in Afghanistan in March 2006. The report was released to the Associated Press through a Freedom of Information Act request.
Read more . . .

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/07/02/friendly-fire.html

Seven Afghan police killed by roadside bomb
KANDAHAR, Afghanistan -- A roadside bomb destroyed a police vehicle patrolling in a dangerous area of southern Afghanistan on Monday, killing all seven policemen on board, an official said. Read More:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070702/afghanistan_police_070702?s_name=&no_ads=

Joe Wilson is on ED SHULTZ</a. NOW!

BuffaloGrover,

I think today's discussion is really fascinating.

I have to say that the only reason why the right-wing goes into convulsions about Bill is because he did a fantastic job.

The Republicans know that they can only dream of ever having someone as effective and as popular as Bill.

He may have lied about his personal affair (which the Republicans will have you believe an impeachable offense) but he didn't lie to the American people to start a war and he didn't lie to cover-up a conspiracy to oust and discredit it's critics.

If there are Americans who are looking for perfection in a presidential candidate, they better not hold their breath.

But let's face the facts, the problem with the Republicans isn't the fact that no one's perfect, it's the fact that the Republicans are incompetent and are mired in corruption.

madfuq,

I agree. Libby was going to sing if he spent one day in jail. He did his job as a palooka and scapegoat for Cheney but jail time for a year was not an option.

Bush didn't grant a full pardon because the prosecutors and all the judges who convicted Libby were Bush appointed and a full pardon would have been a slap in the face.

PortlandAnnie,

I support Obama and I support Edwards (although I think he's slowly losing ground).

But as far as the "I will vote for Hitler before I vote for Hillary" argument, that's getting old.

Hillary would make a great president. And that's what the Republicans are really afraid of.

After years of incompetence with this Bush Administration, a highly successful Hillary presidency would do nothing but completely embarrass the far right.

26% of the American people wouldn't vote for Obama anymore than they would vote for Hillary.

As far as the rest of America, America is just as ready for the first Woman President as they are for the first African American President.

PortlandAnnie,

I remember the Bosnian genocide and I remember being proud of our involvement in Bosnia. If we sent troops to Darfur to stop the ethnic cleansing than I would be proud of that too.

Iraq was nothing more than a failure from day one because it was based on a lie.

There was no lie that got us into Bosnia. There was no weapons of mass destruction in Bosnia. And there was no unilateral "you're either with us or against us" cowboy mentality about Bosnia.

And Hillary as well as all the other Congressional Democrats didn't vote to declare War on Iraq. They voted to authorize the President the use of force. They would have done the same for Gore had he been President. The only difference is what Gore would have done with any Congressional authorization to use force in response to 9/11 versus what Bush did.

Congressional Democrats didn't vote to declare War on Iraq. They only voted to give the President the option to use force if necessary. Not giving the President enough latitude to respond to the 9/11 attack was the right decision.

Blaming Hillary for Iraq because of her vote is a fallacy.

portland A, we do not occupy Bosnia, I am posting the results of NATO on this subject. You must be a repub swallowing the right wing spin. Oh by the way how many of our boys and girls lost their lives in Bosnia????

The 1995 NATO bombing in Bosnia and Herzegovina (code-named by NATO Operation Deliberate Force) was a sustained air campaign conducted by the North-Atlantic military organization to undermine the military capability of the Bosnian Serb Army who threatened and attacked UN-designated "safe areas" in Bosnia. The operation was carried out between 30 August and 20 September 1995, involving 400 aircraft and 5000 personnel from 15 nations.

It was initiated by NATO in response to a deteriorating situation. Although planned and approved by the North Atlantic Council in July 1995, the operation was triggered in direct response to the second wave of Markale Massacres on 28 August 1995.

During the campaign, a total of 3515 sorties were flown against 338 individual targets. Aircraft involved in the campaign operated out of Italy and from the U.S. aircraft carriers USS Theodore Roosevelt & USS America. 68% of the bombs used in this campaign were precision-guided munitions. The Bosnian Serb integrated air defence network, comprising of aircraft and surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), presented a high-threat environment to the allied air operations. A French Mirage 2000 was shot down by a Serbian SAM on the 30 August 1995. As a counter to the operation some 400 UNPROFOR peacekeepers were seized by the Bosnian Serb Army and used as human shields at key Bosnian Serb sites.

Also in August, Croatian Forces conducted Operation Storm in the Republic of Serbian Krajina in Croatia, which resulted in the expulsion of the Serb population of several hundred thousand from that area.

The air attacks increased the international pressure on (Milošević’s Serbia/Yugoslavia to take part in negotiations that resulted in the Dayton Peace Agreement

Everyone is getting tired of trying to educate repubs on the truth of history not the spin! Reading can cure this re-invention of history by the far right if they will just bother!

Not giving the President enough latitude to respond to the 9/11 attack was the right decision.

correction:

Giving the President enough latitude to respond to the 9/11 attack was the right decision.

The wrong decisions were made by Bush.

And that's not the fault of Congressional Democrats who voted yes to authorize the use of force as the President request in the aftermath of 9/11.

madfuq,

The Republicans are going to have just as easy of a time attacking Obama with misleading political spin as they will attacking Hillary.

The major difference is that Obama is still new to the political process and Hillary isn't.

Republicans can harp about Obama's inexperience until the night of the election but any suggestion that Hillary isn't tough enough or Hillary doesn't have what it takes will always be met with "rolling eyes".

The only thing that counts against Hillary is that her critics complain she is too stiff.

Hmmm. I remember when Gore's critics claimed he was too stiff. Now look at what happened to Gore.

portland A, none of us expect perfection but we do expect leaders to not act like a crime family and trash the rule of law!

PortlandAnnie,

So then I guess those who voted for Nixon had to accept everything he did cause they can't have it both ways.

Iran Contra was another example of royalty acting regimes. We created Saddam, remember???

He got us into Bosnia and we’re still there. That was 12 years ago. If the UN had done their job in the first place it wouldn’t have had gone down that was, a US incursion

the US is in bosnia as part of the UN which we are a member, not as the sole occupying force.

PortlandAnnie,

We went to Bosnia because of the ethnic cleansing.

We didn't go into Iraq because of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

We went to Iraq because the President claimed that there were "weapons of mass destruction" and critics who opposed it were discredited and their CIA wives were ousted and high level officials were convicted of perjury and there jail time was commuted for fear he may turn and tell the American people that we really went to Iraq to enrich the oil industry connections to Bush and the Haliburton connections to Cheney.

We went to Bosnia because of the genocide.

We didn't go into Iraq because of ethnic cleansing and genocide.

We went to Iraq because of Bush's claims of "weapons of mass destruction".

Posted by PortlandAnnie on July 3, 2007 at 12:50 PM

Didn't the genocide take place during the Raygun/Bush term? Why didn't Raygun or Bush I take care of the genocide? How does it help those suffering from the genocide going in 20 years after the fact?

PortlandAnnie,

Comparing Bosnia with Iraq is nonsense.

How many of our veterans were killed in Bosnia, anyway?

Is Bosnia a peaceful state now?

Is Bosnia a centerpiece for terrorist activity?

I'm glad we went to Bosnia and the President and his commanders did a great job.

Iraq is a mess.

First we were supposed to be greeted as liberators.

Then it was "Mission Accomplished".

Then it was "The insurgency is in it's last throws".

Then it was "Stay the Course"

Then it was "Changing Course" is "Cut and Run"

Then it was "Change of Course"

Then it was "Surge the Troop Levels"

Then it was "No Benchmarks"

Then it was "Benchmarks"

Then it was "No Timeline"

hmmmm. I wonder what's next.

PortlandAnnie,

26 percent of Americans approve of Bush's performance.

The fact of the matter is, if they haven't figured it out by now then they ether never will or they have political and financial issues that force them to "Stay the Course".

Clinton at this time had a 60+ percent approval rating.

I guess Clinton was a hard act to follow.

The only thing Republicans can do now is try to find ways to fracture the Democratic Party.

The Republicans certainly can't govern. The certainly can't control corruption within their own.

Republicans will continue to attack the Democratic Party agenda because they no longer have an agenda of their own.

The Republicans are so mired in drama and controversy can they ever spend time actually doing the job that they are paid to do.

Thank God, the Democratic Party isn't up to their ears in defending a failed foreign policy of nation building.

I remember the Republicans would accuse the Democrats of nation building in Bosnia.

Bosnia was a great victory for the Democrats and the world. The U.N. had an unprecedented respect because they couldn't handle the situation without our help. It was a great example of multi-lateral and international cooperation.

Iraq is a mess. One failure after the next. The Republicans decided to go at it alone without the multi-lateral support of the U.N. The only loyal ally we had were the British.

The Republicans claimed that if we took the offense and attacked terrorists in Iraq than we wouldn't have to worry about them at home.

The U.K. learned a valuable lesson about Republican Party nation building and corrupt nature. Now the U.K. is being attacked at home.

JohnnyBoswell, you wrote that 26 percent of voters won't vote for Obama either.

I am one of those people who won't vote for Hillary under any circumstances. I have my own reasons for it that are too many too enumerate here. Suffice it to say that I don't believe she is the right person to lead this country at this time. And I seriously hope that the Democrats find the person whom I can support.

But I am not alone in that. A recent mason-Dixon poll showed that 52 percent of registered voters would not consider Hillary. Conversely, 48 percent wouldn't even consider Romney. If Democrats are to regain the White House, they need to consider things like that and how to win independents who will actually decide the election.

Hillary is part of the NWO none of us independants, libertarians,real conservatives, etc will vote for her. Ron Paul has much of our full support right now. We put our muscle to help democrats in 2006 and the turned out to be cowards. Kucinich is your only man of his word, the other lower candidates arent bad. Your top candidates are not as bad as the repubs but close. Obama and Clinton are sell outs. This is only if the 2008 elections even happen.
If Clinton and Obama our your guys then you better do some actual research.

Posted by PortlandAnnie on July 3, 2007 at 12:50 PM

Lest we forget, just prior to Saddams attacks against the Kurds, the Kurdish PKK party, exterminated 50,000 of their own people. Odd isn't it? Kurds killing Kurds. But, a battle has raged for the last century and before because of their multi-ethnic, multi religous population.

Saddam, attacked the Kurds with nerve agents and chemical weapons that had been sold to him by the United States, Japan and Germany. More to the point, we backed him in his war against the Iranians and at last count, that war cost over a million Iranians their lives.

Talk about genocide. A million people lost their lives in a war that was funded and supplied by us.

Whatever.... right?? Just Iranians and who's counting.

As far as the attacks on the Kurds, everybody knew about it, particularly us and we stood by and let it happen. We have let the Kurds down on a number of occasions. They pleaded and begged us to support them when the wanted to succeed from Iraq. First we told them we would, then we told them we couldn't and then we armed Saddam.

Bosnia....was a multi-lateral action.We are there as part of a international peace keeping force. One has a hard time criticizing an action that is truly multi-lateral not some trumped up coalition offering to carry water bottles. For shit sake, the coalition of the willing included Tonga. Tonga?? Their navy is a couple of rafts roped together and they throw coconuts as hard as they can at their enemies.

History lesson over.

However, I do like your choice of presidential candidates and honestly there is only one and he has yet to declare.

There truly is only one individual with the experience, the creditials, the intellectual ability, the wisdom and the integrity to lead this nation out of the abyss it is in. This individual does not cater to special interest and won't have to.

That's Al Gore and the what will inspire him to jump in and save our collective asses is a continued assault on reason (like that??) and the outright refusal of this cheap imitation of a president to adher to the rule of law and the constitution.

So, dumbya, keep it up. Al's coming to get ya' and the american people are going to be right behind him looking forward to your sentencing, which will be one that will never be commuted.

Count on it.

The Democratic Party is now the lone political organization that can lay claim to competence.

The Libby pardon is a "victory" for the Republican Party "culture of corruption". But the "victory" is short-sighted and narrow-minded.

The Democratic Party needs to fight for truth, justice and the American Way.

Let the Republican Party continue to nurture corruption, lies, incompetence and cronyism.

Posted by AzraelsJudgement on July 3, 2007 at 01:59 PM

Tell me your thoughts on Gore.

AzraelsJudgement and Moses,

You have made up your minds concerning scenarios that have not played out.

I don't believe you would vote Democrat under any circumstance anyway.

If you won't ever vote for Hillary under any circumstance why would you vote Obama or Edwards for that matter?

Any suggestion that you support the Democratic Party agenda is disingenuous.

The only arguments I've heard from you are arguments that undermine the Democratic Party agenda.

Anyone who claims to support Obama and Thompson, politically polar, opposites is suspicious in its motives anyway.

Posted by Moses on July 3, 2007 at 01:59 PM

And how about you?? What's your take on Gore?

AzraelsJudgement and Moses,

The "I will not vote for Hillary under any circumstance" is a closed minded view.

The Democratic Party supports an open-minded nature.

I can't believe that either of you support the Democratic Party with such a closed-mined attitude.

I voted hillary as my senator and i voted all democrat and pushed for Gillibrand to win my district in 2006 so nice try to undermine me.
I even voted for Kerry in 2004. I never voted for Bush or his neocon scum. 99% of my friends are progressive democrats. They all back Kucinich as would I if Ron Paul wasnt around.

Gore needs to chill on Global Warming a bit and start attacking corruption. That in turn will help the planet. He is not fully trustworthy but he is better than Clinton, Obama, or Edwards.

The Democratic Party was in the minority for many years during the early part of the Bush Administration.

The biggest reason is that it's hard to find open-minded/politically active members.

It's easy to mislead and brainwash the close minded. That's how the Republican Party flourishes.

However, a line gets drawn when real problems start to affect Americans in real ways. Eventually, these people will no longer put up with the corruption and apathetic close mindedness.

Posted by JohnnyBoswell on July 3, 2007 at 02:17 PM

You'll incite a riot if you're not careful. Saying you (and probably only at this point in time) wouldn't vote for Hillary is valid. I admit to fence sitting on the top three myself. I'm not convinced that any of them are what we need as the president of the united states. They need to prove that to me as I am sure they need to prove that to a lot of people.

I don't think that the mindset of anybody but a republican or anyone not related to the bush cabal is a reason to vote for any of them.

We need someone extraordinary, someone with impecable judgement and integrity. Someone that will be there for the people, who is humble and diplomatic. We need to purge politico's who are driven by K street and not by main street.

And we need someone to model that behavior, not someone who has learned bad habits.

Settling for less than that will only perpetuate the dismal state of affairs we find ourselves in.

My vote will have to be earned.

Posted by AzraelsJudgement on July 3, 2007 at 02:21 PM

Congratulations.

The reason Gore doesn't chill is because of Global Warming. And Gore is attacking corruption from corporations who are using corruption to profit at the expense of the environment.

With such a negative view of the Democratic Party, I wouldn't be surprised if you changed your party affiliation to Republican.

You and Moses don't seem to have any problems with the Republicans.

Posted by JohnnyBoswell on July 3, 2007 at 02:23 PM

Both parties have many corrupt people, but the Neocons hijacked the republican party decades ago. the real republicans are now called the constitutional party. The zionists are hijacking the democratic party so beware you progressive and peaceful liberals might end up being a 3rd or 4th party.

Posted by AzraelsJudgement on July 3, 2007 at 02:21 PM

Have you read his book? If you haven't read his book, read it and then tell me what you think. Global warming is a big part of Gore, but that's his global agenda. No one has a better understanding of how we find ourselves in this position at this point in our democracy, than Gore.

gnois,

My vote will have to be earned too.

But I have reasons to believe that the few "I will not vote for Hillary under any circumstance" bloggers here have an agenda.

If Hillary were to become the Democratic Party candidate and these people voted Republican as a way to spite the Democrats aren't here to discuss the pros and cons of candidates but are here to support the Republican Party.

Congratulations.

The reason Gore doesn't chill is because of Global Warming. And Gore is attacking corruption from corporations who are using corruption to profit at the expense of the environment.

With such a negative view of the Democratic Party, I wouldn't be surprised if you changed your party affiliation to Republican.

You and Moses don't seem to have any problems with the Republicans.

Posted by JohnnyBoswell on July 3, 2007 at 02:28 PM

Again I am being attacked hello I am totally destroying all republicans except Ron Paul. Just because you dont want to hear the truth is no reason to attack me.

Al Gore needs to attack politicians owned by corporations. Global warming is a small issue compared with our civil liberties and freedoms being stripped. Once you lose freedom of speech try protesting against global warming you will be shot in the street.

We need someone extraordinary, someone with impecable judgement and integrity. Someone that will be there for the people, who is humble and diplomatic. We need to purge politico's who are driven by K street and not by main street.

gnois,

Unfortunately, Superman isn't running for President.

Every candidate will have their pros and cons.

Posted by gnois on July 3, 2007 at 02:31 PM

i dont need Al Gore to tell me about global warming. I am very aware of the destruction of our planet. Although I am going to watch inconvenient Truth very soon. You cannot stop global warming until we retake this country from the paid off politicians.

AzraelsJudgement,

You are not being attacked.

I repeat, You are not being attacked.

This is a discussion and you're views as well as mine are being debated.

You shouldn't feel insecure when others make comments on your posts, anymore than other bloggers would feel insecure when you make comments on theirs.

Someone please articulate for the me the case AGAINST Obama. Some have said that Obama would have the same problems as Clinton. I don't see where.

His message is a little unrealistic with the politics of Hope, oxymoronic even, but he and Gore have been right about every major policy question of the day.

Posted by AzraelsJudgement on July 3, 2007 at 02:33 PM

No one is in danger of losing their freedom of speech.

This blog still exists.

And I repeat, You are not being attacked.

You and Moses don't seem to have any problems with the Republicans.

Posted by JohnnyBoswell on July 3, 2007 at 02:28 PM

Maybe they are truly independant and are having problems with republicans on the RNC blog?

Corruption and pandering to corporations is not limited to the Republican party and that is the point that I think they are making.

We don't get a free pass on that and to say you are a democrat or part of the democratic party, does not absolve you or the party from adhering to ethical standards. It's dangerous to be self righteous.

If we are what we say we are, then hearing out criticizm or alternate ideas should come naturally. Saying you are open minded is one thing, acting it is another.

BuffaloGrover,

The biggest criticism I've heard about Obama is inexperience.

Otherwise he is very popular and is raising record amounts of money.

Posted by AzraelsJudgement on July 3, 2007 at 02:35 PM

An Inconvienent Truth is so like six months ago. the book I'm talking about is his new one, The Assault on Reason.

Not much on global warming in that one and you'll enjoy what he has to say about the MSM and corporate influence in politics.

His message is a little unrealistic with the politics of Hope, oxymoronic even, but he and Gore have been right about every major policy question of the day.

BuffaloGrover,

Another criticism I've heard about Obama is that he wasn't in office when he opposed the war.

Some would say that it's easy to be against the war when you aren't in a position to make any real decisions.

Dr. Howard Dean staked his complete political reputation against the war by making himself a national anti-war candidate.

Obama didn't. He wasn't an office holder at the time. Although he was initially against it.

Those are the types of arguments I hear.

Unfortunately, Superman isn't running for President.

Not yet. So you're right, he isn't. :)

Posted by gnois on July 3, 2007 at 02:40 PM

Debate is not something anyone should take personal.

When people debate they raise arguments.

If respondents, including myself, can't handle the heat than my tame posts should be the last thing they should be afraid of.

A person of real character won't get their cage rattled as easy. Especially if they truly believe in their convictions.

Just express outrage at Bush's act at excusing Treason in our country at a time of war.

Posted by PamB on July 3, 2007 at 09:33 AM
****

I did better than email. I just talked with Frank Pallone's office. I told him that given Bush's commuting of Libby's sentence, there is no choice but to support HRES 333 and impeach these people.

I recommend, you all do the same.

Posted by BuffaloGrover on July 3, 2007 at 02:38 PM

We're wary and for good cause. If anything the last six years have taught us to be that. Obama is brand new and at this point limited in experience. That's palatable to a point. It's possible that you can learn how to be a great president, on the run.

And that's where he may lose some critical support. After watching what inexperience looks like in the Oval and how that can be manipulated, is that what the american people want....again??

Apparently, it's easy to become president of the united states if you have the money and the machine to back you. Part of Obama's challenge is that the electorate now knows that.

Again, earn it. They will need to earn the vote.

Here's the GOOD news people. Even 68% of Republicans, plus 80% Independents DISAGREE with Bush on the Libby decision!

"Most Disagree With Bush's Libby Decision
****

It's only good news if they psuh their Reps to take action. It's time for HRES 333; it's time to impeach Cheney.

MoveOn finally utters the "I" word
by marchtoimpeach [Subscribe]
Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 11:17:04 AM PDT

Many of us have been urging MoveOn.org for a very long time to call for impeachment--or at the very least ask their members if they would support it. Until today, however, they seemed more interested in giving the Democratic Party leadership a free pass on the issue than in rocking the boat by demanding accountability for the Bush administration.

It seems this is finally changing.
marchtoimpeach's diary :: ::

I just receive an e-mail from MoveOn about the commutation of Libby's sentence that contained the following:

It's time for Congress to re-assert its constitutional authority and stop the administration's obstruction of justice...Congress can start by demanding answers from the Bush administration about the Iraq war and their illegal spying program, and not backing down until they get them. Cheney won't testify? Subpoena him. He won't come? Hold him in contempt of Congress and send over the police. And if that doesn't work, impeach the guy. We just can't let President Bush and his administration dismantle our Constitution.

Right on! But this Administration has already laughed at Congressional subpoenas. Indeed, as MoveOn itself points out:

When their illegal program of warrantless wiretapping was revealed, the Bush administration refused to answer subpoenas from Congress to testify about what, precisely, they were doing. When Attorney General Alberto Gonzales—the nation's highest law-enforcement officer—testified in front of Congress under oath, he lied and said the program didn't exist.

It's time to cut the kabuki and skip ahead to the main event: impeachment. It's our trump card, our ace in the hole, and we need to use it now. I salute MoveOn for finally stating the obvious--that this Administration must be held accountable--and I urge them to go ahead and call for impeachment rather than wasting even another minute on subpoenas.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/3/1403/13154

****

Please see poll at the bottom. Let's urge Moveon to take up impeachment. DFA and PDA are already behind it. There is no choice anymore. It's time to impeach these criminals.

gnois,

I realize that there are some bloggers looking for a lovefest political blog in which everyone is in agreement and there is one perfect candidate that makes everyone happy.

When any bloggers wants to respond to my post, I just can't help believe that it is an invitation to a discussion.

But sooner or later a disagreement will come to light and how a blogger responds is usually a tell-tale sign of the conviction behind the bloggers motive for posting here.

I don't believe anyone here has ever attacked me. "Attacked" is such a strong word for a computer blog.

I have my own youtube channel I am not insecure about debates. Saying I have no problems with republicans is trying to attack my credability. All I am saying is all other problems are pointless until you get rid of corruption, lobbyists, and overall corporations buying their way into policies. Clinton is not going to stop this nor is Obama.

Have a good 4th all...

Keep em' lit~

....and justice for all!!

AzraelsJudgement,

Well it's time to go. Have a good day.

It's time for Moveon to take up impeachment:

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/moveontoimpeachment/index-47.html

The Libby pardon is a "victory" for the Republican Party "culture of corruption". But the "victory" is short-sighted and narrow-minded.
****

JohnnyBoswell,

I see another way. The Libby pardon represents everything that is wrong with the modern GOP party. They seem to believe that "might makes right". I got into a long debate with Davidual a couple of days ago over "ideals". I don't see how the GOP can claim to have any "ideals" when they support commuting Libby's sentence. This was the same party back in the 1990's that wanted to impeach Clinton over perjury. This is the same President who never pardoned anyone even as governor of Texas. So Cheney's friend is caught lying on a crime that Cheney committed and Bush knew about and they commute the sentence? That alone is impeachable!

Okay I may have overreacted a bit but I just wanna leave work dammit. Off until monday after today. Okay truce everyone. Have a great 4th

Hillary is part of the NWO none of us independants, libertarians,real conservatives, etc will vote for her.

Posted by AzraelsJudgement on July 3, 2007 at 01:59 PM

Out of curiousity, I am wondering if November 2008 you go into the voting booth, the choices are Hillary, F.thompson, and a couple of 3rd party candidates, WHO would you vote for? Again this is out of curiousity.

Posted by PamB on July 3, 2007 at 03:08 PM

I am campaigning on youtube against fred thompson. I would hope Ron Paul goes independent. If not then just to stick it to Thompson I would vote Hillary and harrass her like I do Bush if she attacks peace and freedom.

And we need someone to model that behavior, not someone who has learned bad habits.
Settling for less than that will only perpetuate the dismal state of affairs we find ourselves in.
My vote will have to be earned.
Posted by gnois on July 3, 2007 at 02:27 PM

It is true that the Dems have some bad habits. It is also true that they abused power when they had control back in the 90's. But to think they will 'perpetuate the dismal state of affairs we are in' is far from true. NO ONE outside of another neo-con could possibly perpetuate what Bush/Cheney started. Bad as Nixon, Reagan, bush Sr all were for this country, none hold a candle to this administration. And No Democrat out there would come anywhere near this failure of a Presidency. The Dems HAVE my vote, because the Republicans Did not Earn it!

Lack experience? lack of executive experience, perhaps? Though, again, I would ask everyone to consider their respective decisions regarding the major issues of our time. If by experience you all mean experience making right decisions, then I think Gore and Obama are the clear front-runners. I don't quite see what executive experience Hillary can harken to, and be careful bringing up her role during her husband's administration. That is precisely what a lot of people find irritating about her.

We need to consider the opinions of the politicos who all point out that Hillary has high negatives, which are going to hurt her with the base, but they will absolutely affect her general election campaign. All bad. You can see it playing out right now. She trots out Bill and the base goes nuts with adoration, and she gets a bump in the primary polls. But his image, their image together, especially in the Sopranos scene, will be used by the Republican candidate in the general election campaign and with great effect.

I do not say this as a matter of conceit, but I have predicted nearly every national political outcome since Bill Clinton's reelection in 1996 and the reasons behind them. I DO NOT see how Hillary Clinton can win the general election. I wish the current republican party would go the way of the dodo, but I know that's an impossibility. I just want to make sure we don't end up with another republican president who is going to reset the Supreme Court for the next 50 years. I just can't take that. Again, we can't nominate Hillary. Sorry.

As for Obama being against the war, he was in office, just not national office. If everyone could remember the time before the Iraq war, being against anything Bush did was hugely unpopular. That has to speak for something.

William Pitt: I'm In. Cheney Must Be Impeached and Removed
Submitted by Chip on Tue, 2007-07-03 19:13. Impeachment

I'm in. Cheney must be impeached and removed

I've written hundreds of thousands of words since the evening of December 12, 2000. On that night, upon hearing of the Bush v. Gore decision, I wrote something called "Not My President," and have been writing every single day since. In all the words written in essays, books, speeches, campaign letters, press releases, emails, along with a DU post here and there, I am proudest of one line that came to me in 2003:

"Blaming George W. Bush for all that has gone wrong in America is a lot like blaming Mickey Mouse when Disney screws up."

My fav. :)

Besides being a decent snark, it has the added benefit of being true. A blogger I read last week had a great line that I recall now in paraphrase: The Decider decided to let Cheney make all the decisions. We knew this, we could see it, and thanks to some astonishing (albeit far overdue) reporting by the Washington Post, we have details and data to the dot.

Forget impeaching Bush. He almost certainly hasn't been making most of the heavy decisions on policy, which means he probably hasn't actually committed any crimes. Sins of omission and collaboration? Accessory to murder, fraud and grand larceny? Conspiracy to commit same? Sure, yes, clearly, but I don't have much interest in trying to convict a rubber stamp.

The analogy I think of when considering Cheney over Bush:

During the 19th century, ship-to-ship warfare on the high seas determined the fate of nations. Whenever possible, the cannoneers aimed for two spots on the enemy ship: the rudder, and the main mast. Take out either with a well-placed ball, and the enemy ship is defeated; no mainsail to catch the wind, and no rudder for tactical steering makes even the stoutest warship into a barrel of helpless fish.

Cheney is the main mast and the rudder. You want to shatter this administration's ability to do more harm? Impeach the wind and steering, and the whole lot of them will be helpless and immobilized. The case against Cheney must be made, but more than that, it truly can be made.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24269

I am campaigning on youtube against fred thompson
****

Well freddy showed what a criminal he is. He thinks the Libby commuted sentence is a good thing. By the way, so does Rudy Ghouliani. Let's keep this in mind when we campaign against these people in 2008.

But right now, my mind is on impeachment. Cheney must be brought to justice. Support HRES 333 to start the process.

Call Out the Instigator
Submitted by davidswanson on Tue, 2007-07-03 17:59. Activism | Cindy Sheehan | Impeachment

By Cindy Sheehan

Call out the Instigator
Because there's something in the air
We got to get together sooner or later
Because the revolution's here
You know it's right!
Thunderclap Newman

I'm not backing off. I tried to remove myself from the political realm of the US, what BushCo is turning into an Evil Empire, but the blatant audacity of George commuting Scooter's sentence (he's not ruling out a full pardon ---and you know he will) has dragged me kicking and screaming back in. I can't sit back and
let this BushCo drag our country further down into the murky quagmire of Fascism and violence, taking the rest of the world with them!

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24264

****

Well folks, she's back! I predicted that she would be. Cindy just needed a bit of a rest.
And no I don't care if she now considers herself to be an independent, Green or whatever. She is on the side of peace and justice. That's good enough for me.

Bush and Cheney are top NWO flunkies and need to be impeached. Guiliani, thompson, Romney, and Mccain as well are bad politcians. I am not letting Hillary off I just think she is more independent than the neocons side. Later folks out fo work until monday. Have a good week.

Bush and Cheney are top NWO flunkies and need to be impeached.
****

Yes and ASAP!

Nancy, impeachment of Cheney is on the top - it's called HRES 333 and you can't ignore it anymore. The people of this country won't let you.

I would vote Hillary and harrass her like I do Bush if she attacks peace and freedom.

Posted by AzraelsJudgement on July 3, 2007 at 03:17 PM

I appreciate your frankness. But I hope you learn a lot more about Libertarian, Ron Paul before you start supporting him.

AND, I will be on Hillary or Any Dem's ass every minute of every day, too. I think every American got a wake up call with this administration and will not take it anymore!

Pam

And nows it's 14 for impeachment of the Cheney!

Fourteen Congress Members for Impeachment
Submitted by davidswanson on Tue, 2007-07-03 16:32. Impeachment

Fourteen Congress Members for Impeachment

By David Swanson

The official list of cosponsors of H Res 333 to impeach Dick Cheney cannot be updated until July 10 when Congress gets back to Washington. But Congress Members can contact Dennis Kucinich's office in the meantime and sign on. And citizens can encourage them to do so. In fact, this is the week in which you should visit your Congress Member's district office and demand that he or she sign onto Kucinich's articles of impeachment or introduce their own. And they should not just sign on, but make a public statement in support. Here's everything you need to know: http://impeachcheney.org

The official count of cosponsors, including Kucinich, is at 10. But Rep. Jim McDermott spoke on the floor of the House last week and committed to signing on. That makes 11. Congressmen Bob Filner and Jim Moran now also say that they are signing on. That's 13. And Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. has spoken out in support of impeachment. He is clearly either signing on or introducing his own articles of impeachment or both. That makes probably 14.

Who else? What about your Congress Member? Does he or she want to be among the first 20 standing for justice, or trail behind among the last standing with Dick Cheney? July 4th is independence day, the day on which we throw off the tyranny of King Georges. This is the moment for your Member of Congress to represent you, and not Dick Cheney or George W. Bush.

Congress is off this week, so your Representative is home making appearances at community events. What a great opportunity to grab a video camera and ask them point blank: what's your excuse for not co-sponsoring H.Res. 333 ? Democrats.com is paying $100 for each "no excuse" video asking a Democrat in the House why (s)he has not co-sponsored H.Res. 333 and recording their response on video: http://www.democrats.com/youtube-your-rep

Here's what you need to know to ask tough follow-up questions: http://www.impeachcheney.org

The House Judiciary Committee took a giant step towards impeachment hearings by sending H.Res. 333 to the Constitution Subcommittee led by Rep. Jerrold Nadler (NY-8). But Speaker Nancy Pelosi remains our main obstacle to impeachment. In a conference call with bloggers, Pelosi tried to dodge the issue by arguing that Bush "isn't worth it... he's not worth impeaching." But Mike Stark wouldn't accept Pelosi's dodge: "Respectfully, that's not the question. Respectfully, the question is whether or not the Constitution is worth it."

Here's Pelosi's shocking reply: "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." So Pelosi's sworn oath to uphold the Constitution only applies "if you can succeed"? Surely not!

On Sunday in Kennebunkport, Maine, 3,000 citizens marched for impeachment through the narrow streets of this little coastal town and delivered a message to Bush and to the international media that Americans are demanding impeachment. Video, photos, news reports, and information on the August 25th march planned for Kennebunkport are here: http://afterdowningstreet.org/me

Last week we kicked off the "Honk To Impeach" campaign, which is a great way to get past the Corporate Media blackout and prove to politicians, the media, and our fellow citizens how many Americans support impeachment: http://democrats.com/honktoimpeach

July 4 is an especially good day to "Honk To Impeach." You can also hold up signs saying "Text IMPEACH to 30644". With your help, we'll reach millions of Americans who don't visit progressive web sites. The best place to gather on July 4 is outside the parking lot for local fireworks.

We've also set up a new group to coordinate impeachment efforts among Facebook members: The Nationwide Movement to Impeach Cheney and Bush. Let's make this the biggest group on Facebook!
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=3079705569

Demand for Impeachment Taking Over Blogosphere
Submitted by davidswanson on Tue, 2007-07-03 15:49. Impeachment

Check this out.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/3/23916/45625

I don't want to ever hear another Freaken Republican come in here, and try and make Bill Clinton's crime a big deal. Obviously, Republican leaders do not think lying under oath and obstruction of justice are any big deals at all!

Dallas Morning News:

Nearly a decade ago, a GOP-led House impeached President Bill Clinton for lying under oath and obstructing justice in a civil deposition. Yesterday, a Republican president commuted the sentence of former top White House staffer Lewis “Scooter” Libby, who was convicted of the same thing in a criminal investigation. Republicans are known for being tough on crime. Apparently there’s an exception when the criminal is a member of President Bush’s inner circle. [Link]

San Francisco Chronicle:

In commuting the sentence of former White House aide Lewis “Scooter” Libby, President Bush sent the message that perjury and obstruction of justice in the service of the president of the United States are not serious crimes. [Link]

These Reps that serve on the Justice Committee are critical. Please contact them and urge them to support HRES 333 (impeachment of Cheney):

Chairman John Conyers, Michigan, 14th (202) 225-5126 Contact him here.
Howard Berman California, 28th (202) 225-4695 Contact him here
Rick Boucher Virginia, 9th (202) 225-3861 Contact him here
Jerrold Nadler New York, 8th Contact him here
Robert C. Scott Virginia, 3rd (202) 225-8351 Contact him here
Melvin L. Watt North Carolina, 12th (202) 225-1510 Contact him here
Zoe Lofgren California, 16th (202) 225-3072 Contact her here
Sheila Jackson Lee Texas, 18th (202) 225-3816 Contact her here
Martin T. Meehan Massachusetts, 5th Resigned.
William D. Delahunt Massachusetts, 10th (202) 225-3111 Contact him here
Robert Wexler Florida, 19th (202) 225-3001 Contact him here
Linda T. Sánchez California, 39th (202) 225-6676 Contact her here
Steve T. Cohen Tennessee, 9th (202) 225-3265 Contact him here
Hank Johnson Georgia, 4th (202) 225-1605 Contact him here
Luis Gutierrez Illinois, 4th (202) 225-8203 Contact him here
Brad Sherman California, 27 (202) 225-5911 Contact him here
Anthony D. Weiner New York, 9th (202) 225-6616 Contact him here
Adam B. Schiff California, 29th (202) 225-4176 Contact him here
Artur Davis Alabama , 7th (202) 225-2665 Contact him here

Debbie Wasserman Schultz Florida, 20th 202-225-7931 Contact her here
Tammy Baldwin Wisconsin, 2nd (202) 225-2906 Contact her here

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/3/23916/45625

I don't want to ever hear another Freaken Republican come in here, and try and make Bill Clinton's crime a big deal
****

PamB, this is exactky why I argued a couple of days ago that I don't think the Republicans have any ideals. Not only do they lack ideals but they also lack fundamental respect for the law.

It's time to impeach Cheney and Bush to restore respect for the law.

Gnois, my take on Gore is that he right now is a one issue person, global warming. I don't think that is enough to win him the election. The issue might be one that is near and dear to him and many others, but rightly or wrongly it is not an issue that most voters are concerned with right now. From polls I've seen, it ranks near the bottom. Iraq, education, the economy, and terrorism are the top things on people's minds.

Johnnybos, don't put words in my mouth. Saying I support Obama and Thompson is nothing I ever stated. What I have stated is that I thought an election between those two would restore an air or civility to the election process, something that I think is sorely missing in presidential politics.

Ambassador Joe Wilson Reacts: "Corrupt to the Core...Congress Should Investigate;" Bush: "Tell Truth, Or Be Held Accountable"
Submitted by Chip on Tue, 2007-07-03 05:46. Criminal Prosecution

The career of Ambassador Joe Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, ended when her cover was blown as retribution for Ambassador Wilson's exposing the falsity of the Niger yellowcake story as a premise for the Iraqi war. Ambassador Wilson spoke tonight with MSNBC's Keith Olbermann about Bush's commutation of Scooter Libby's prison sentence. You can watch it here.

In giving the commutation, Bush said: "... a jury of citizens weighed all the evidence and listened to all the testimony and found Mr. Libby guilty of perjury and obstructing justice. They argue, correctly, that our entire system of justice relies on people telling the truth. And if a person does not tell the truth, particularly if he serves in government and holds the public trust, he must be held accountable. They say that had Mr. Libby only told the truth, he would have never been indicted in the first place...The Constitution gives the President the power of clemency to be used when he deems it to be warranted. It is my judgment that a commutation of the prison term in Mr. Libby's case is an appropriate exercise of this power."

A Proclamation by the President of the United States of America

WHEREAS Lewis Libby was convicted in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia in the case United States v. Libby, Crim. No. 05-394 (RBW), for which a sentence of 30 months' imprisonment, 2 years' supervised release, a fine of $250,000, and a special assessment of $400 was imposed on June 22, 2007;

NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, pursuant to my powers under Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution, do hereby commute the prison terms imposed by the sentence upon the said Lewis Libby to expire immediately, leaving intact and in effect the two-year term of supervised release, with all its conditions, and all other components of the sentence.

IN WITNESS THEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this second day of July, in the year of our Lord two thousand and seven, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and thirty-first.

GEORGE W. BUSH

Ambassador Wilson also spoke with Keith Olbermann when Libby, who had been assigned Inmate No. 28301 - 016 by the US Board of Prisons, was convicted of 4 out of 5 of the felonies with which he was charged.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24251

****

It's time for impeachment. The key is NOT Pelosi or Hoyer. The key is Conyers! Contact him please.

In my heart-of-hearts I am all for impeaching this admin, and I think beginning with Cheney would be the most efficacious was of starting. However, my political instincts tell me this will only give the repub. base a cause to back. They will undoubtedly perk up if "one of their own" is under political attack with historical implications. I think we need them to stew in their own cess-pool of corruption and incompetence. That is the best way to foster apathy with their base and ensure our candidate wins.

You can all see what my modus operandi is. We need to win the executive post back with a squeaky-clean idealist, who inspires like Bobby Kennedy. Then we can change the tenor of national politics and make this country a little more progressive.

rj, When you think of how the Republicans hired Ken Starr at the beginning of Clinton's era, and all that man did day and night for 8 years was try and find something to pin on Clinton, no matter how small, no matter how far fetched, looking for a woman he might have looked cross-eyed at, it still makes me sick to my stomach.

Democratic Congressmen right now when called on for impeachment, are saying they don't want to waste the time nor money of the American public on impeachment, YET ALL THEY HAVE TO DO IS HIRE KEN STARR BACK AND PUT HIM ON THE LOOSE. Wave enough cash in front of a Republican's nose, and he will do anything.

However, my political instincts tell me this will only give the repub. base a cause to back.
****

With all due respect, I think this is a bad reason! Thi is putting political calculus (that rarely is ever accurate) ahead of what's right. Defend our government, defend our constitution.

Yesterday's commutation of Libby's sentence proves there is no outrage that Bush-Cheney will not take partake in. What will it take my friends before we put the politics away and do what we know is right?

“You cannot pardon the whole Republican Party.”
CAN YOU?

Creative Accounting, Creative War Intelligence,
Creative Pardons, Creative Executive Privilege;
Oh, President without any checks and balances;
“You cannot pardon the whole Republican Party.”

Now this is ludicrous!

Novak: Libby camp angry at Bush.Robert Novak writes: “Bush is blamed by friends of Libby for losing control of the Plame investigation by putting it in the hands of a special prosecutor — the U.S. attorney in Chicago, Patrick Fitzgerald. In his decision sparing Libby jail time, Bush did not say a word of criticism about Fitzgerald.” 9:40 am

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/03/novak-libby-camp-angry-at-bush/

Instead of being DELIGHTED that Fibby Libby will walk, they are pissed because Bush did not try and destroy Fitzgerald! These Republicans get stupider and stupider !

rj, When you think of how the Republicans hired Ken Starr at the beginning of Clinton's era, and all that man did day and night for 8 years was try and find something to pin on Clinton
****

PamB, the GOP did this and on what basis ... because Clinton told a lie that any husband would tell to preserve his marraige. Perjury? hah! The GOP showed us yesterday how seriously they take perjury.

Isn't it remarkable that Bush-Cheney will commit all manner of crime - starting war on false premises, warrantless wiretapping, imprisonment without habeaus corpus, torture at Abu Ghraib, cheating in elections through violation of 1965 VRA using illegal caging lists, etc... They will do all and Dems are reluctant to impeach based on political calculation. Don't have the votes? Who cares! Make the case and get the votes.

Oh, President without any checks and balances;
“You cannot pardon the whole Republican Party.”

Posted by dlesterpoet on July 3, 2007 at 03:57 PM
****

dlester, you most certainly can not. The argument that we don't have the votes is absurd. Does a prosecutor go into a case only when they know how the jury will decide? No, they make a case.

Novak: Libby camp angry at Bush.Robert Novak writes: “Bush is blamed by friends of Libby for losing control of the Plame investigation by putting it in the hands of a special prosecutor — the U.S. attorney in Chicago, Patrick Fitzgerald. In his decision sparing Libby jail time, Bush did not say a word of criticism about Fitzgerald.”
****

PamB, I have to disagree with the Prince of Darkness Novak (who should be in jail too right now, thank you very much!). Indirectly, Bush criticized Fitzgerald by saying that the sentence was too harsh.

At any rate, this just once again shows what Republicans are all about. They are NOT about ideals; they are not about the rule of law; they are all about power and don't care how they abuse it. That makes them in effect fascists.

Keith Olbermann, visibly angry, promised a special comment tomorrow, the eve of our national Independence Day, to suggest that Bush and Cheney resign.

Your congressional representatives are in their home districts for the holiday. Let them know your opinion!

****

Oh boy, watch out for "fireworks" tonight. I think Olbermann is going to call for the Chimps to resign.

Call your Rep - especially if they are on the Judiciary Committee - urge them to support HRES 333. The impeachment of Richard Cheney must proceed.

rj, that was a REPUBLICAN Judge that gave that sentence to Libby. Yet the Libby camp wanted Bush to somehow make Fitzgerald into a bad guy for bringing about these charges in the first place.

PELOSI: Libby deal shows Bush "condones criminal conduct"
Submitted by John Perry on Tue, 2007-07-03 10:26.

Time to really crank up the volume on Nancy.

"IS IMPEACHMENT STILL 'OFF THE TABLE', MADAM SPEAKER?"
****

But remember getting Conyers is real important!

Yet the Libby camp wanted Bush to somehow make Fitzgerald into a bad guy for bringing about these charges in the first place.

Posted by PamB on July 3, 2007 at 04:13 PM
****

PamB, it's clear. Like all Fascists, the GOP have no respect for the rule of law. All that Fascists respect is power.

Snark, Snark, Snark:

BREAKING: Bush launches nukes, loses 2 points in ratings
by Pen [Subscribe]
Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 12:04:47 PM PDT

Just in from the Associated Pravda: George Bush, in what some call a "liberated move" has just pushed the button releasing nuclear armageddon upon all the nations of the world except Great Britain, Canada, Australia, Switzerland, Israel and New Zealand. According to the report, Paris will be the first to go, followed by Moscow, Beijing, Tehran, and all the major capitals of the world.

Bush announced the following statement: "It is time we got rid of the evil-doers. God told me to do this. I feel so liberated! I can do anything!"

Cheney was unavailable for comment.

Nancy Pelosi remarked that "Impeachment is STILL off the table!"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/3/144156/9650

(Updated) ACTION: We’re Outraged. Now DO Something About It! (w/ Poll)
by Alegre [Subscribe]
Tue Jul 03, 2007 at 08:00:47 AM PDT

There are some great diaries out there right now (many on the Rec List) about the outrageous stunt Dubbya pulled yesterday in commuting Libby’s 30-month jail sentence. But I see very little information on how we can take the outrage we feel, and turn it in to something real.

Like IMPEACHMENT.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/3/10588/87014

JRE supports teachers!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESTWY52IrsU

JRE supports teachers!
****

I like Edwards. Still my number one at this point.

"No living person shall be honored by portrayal on U.S. postage. "

So how can a Republican Corporation use real living photo's on their Creative Post Stamps. So how can Ben Franklin Post Office be trashed by photo.com using Postal colors and their own designs.

You have email being denied a Post Office instead given to Corporare Giant Microsoft, who is on the White House Patriot Act payroll. They do not abide by Congressional Constitutional safeguards.

So think about it Rebulican putting Bush's image on envelopes, this is treason to Ben Franklin's Post Office. Just think who the U.S. mail can commorate Cheney, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, and Nixon.

How low can Republican be to take over the 1776 spirit of the Post Office. Congress get going protect our heritage that one has to be honored to be on a stamp.

"No One Should Doubt that We're in a Consitutional Crisis"
Submitted by JonathanSchwarz on Tue, 2007-07-03 20:00. Impeachment

ORIGINAL

A CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS:
by Sanford Levinson
The New Republic

I cannot restrain myself from offering some comment on the President's commutation of I. Lewis ("Scooter") Libby's prison sentence. There are so many things that one might say: The most obvious point is that Mr. Bush has been notably uncompassionate in his use of his pardoning power in his first six-years in office; moreover, as Governor of Texas he exhibited almost blithe disregard--enabled, to be sure, by his lawyer Alberto ("Fredo") Gonzales--of the poor wretches condemned to die under a notably slipshod system of Texas criminal justice. And, of course, one might note the silence of the President with regard to draconian enforcement of immigration policy that regularly breaks up families because a (legal) resident alien committed a quite minor crime (usually involving drugs) some years ago or because immigration officials conduct roundups of suspected illegal aliens. Mr. Bush's "compassion" for convicted felons is extraordinarily limited, so one obviously wonders what makes Mr. Libby so special.

As it happens, the commutation also connects with my general theme in most of my Open University postings, which involves criticisms of various aspects of our Constitution. Interestingly enough, if one reads the so-called "anti-Federalist" papers, collected together some years ago in a magnificent edition by Herbert J. Storing, one discovers that a number of the opponents of the Constitution were quite concerned by the power to pardon. George Mason, a distinguished Virginian who refused to sign the Constitution, noted that "the President of the United States has the unrestrained Power of granting Pardon for Treason; which may be sometimes exercised to screen from Punishment those whom he had secretly instigated to commit the Crime, and thereby prevent a Discovery of his own guilt." Luther Martin, another non-signatory, also objected to the potential "attempt [of the President] to assume to himself powers not given by the constitution, and establish himself in regal authority; in which attempt a provision is made for him to secure from punishment the creatures of his ambition, the associates and abettors of his treasonable practices, by granting them pardons should they be defeated in their attempts to subvert the constitution."

No one, of course, believes that Mr. Libby committed Treason; indeed, his most ardent defenders view him as attempting to save the Republic from the like of Joseph Wilson. But, just as obviously, Mr. Libby was convicted of perjury after an extensive trial, and the judge quite justifiably thought that Mr. Libby's actions demonstrated utter contempt for what the Constitution calls a "Republican Form of Government." Even if one agrees with President Bush that 30 months was "excessive," it is obviously a logical fallacy to assume that the alternative to 30 months is not a single day. More to the point, it is altogether tempting to put the pardon within the framework set out by Mason and Martin: The best explanation of the pardon is not compassion but, rather, fear that Mr. Libby might be tempted to provide more information about the cabal to turn the presidency (and vice-presidency) into "regal," if not out-and-out dictatorial, authorities totally independent from any scrutiny or accountability. This is simply one more illustration of the mendacity and corruption at the heart of the Bush Administration (and, therefore, of the present American system of government).

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24272

****

Well TNR youy magazine isn't exactly my favorite. But if you realize that we are in a crisis and that the only remedy now is impeachment, welcome aboard.

Just another obstruction of justice
Submitted by davidswanson on Tue, 2007-07-03 19:41. Evidence

By Marcy Wheeler, Guardian

On June 9, 2003, just one day after his national security advisor, Condoleezza Rice, got beaten up on the Sunday shows for claiming no one in the administration knew that the Niger intelligence was bunk, George Bush expressed concern about the allegations. Scooter Libby passed on that concern to vice president Cheney. Bush's concern set off a chain of events that ended up in the outing of a CIA spy, Valerie Plame, and the indictment and conviction of Scooter Libby.

Yesterday, George Bush attempted to prevent that chain of events from continuing any further. He commuted Scooter Libby's 30-month sentence. Rather than serving time in jail, Libby will remain free, with a fine and probation as the only remaining punishments for lying and obstructing a criminal investigation. But the real effect of Bush's actions is to prevent Libby from revealing the truth about Bush's - and vice president Cheney's - own actions in the leak. By commuting Libby's sentence, Bush protected himself and his vice president from potential criminal exposure for their actions in the CIA Leak. As such, Libby's commutation is nothing short of another obstruction of justice.

Cheney's involvement in the CIA leak case is central. He personally undertook research on Joe Wilson and his trip; while doing that research, Cheney learned that Wilson's wife worked in the counter-proliferation division of the CIA, the part of the clandestine services that fights the spread of weapons of mass destruction. Cheney then passed on the news of Plame's CIA identity to Libby.

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24270

There were some login issues today, but it should be working now. Sorry about that folks. We tried to get it back up quickly.

YAY!!

Thanks, guys for fixing the little techno trouble!

Don't forget, when the original Prosecutor couldn't find anything to nail Clinton on, after a year of investigations, he was fired and replaced by a GM corporate lawyer / lobbyist named Starr who had an axe to grind anyway because Clinton was making noises about raising mileage standards. It was nothing bet "Get Bill" for the Pugs.

Good afternoon, all.

Why are the MSM comparing pardons to Bush's commutation of Libby's sentence. Apples and oranges.

Only a guilty president wishing to save his own skin pulls a stunt like this. He was afraid Libby would turn state's evidence against him if he didn't keep him out of jail.

Bush can't even do a pardon right.

rj,

I believe once the supoenas are obeyed, and information is released, we my then have the information we need to impeach, but in the meantime, we have nothing in proof to do so. Anytime they did something illegal, they changed the laws to protect themselves. The Dems need to start really digging out the facts in order to do something about them.

you're all falling into a trap; a giant rovian trap! there is no rock-solid case for impeachment...any case will be based on nuanced thought and a certain complexity, which the general populace will neither track with nor tolerate for the time it will take to conduct the investigation.

For one thing, what will be the basis for articles of impeachment against Cheney? and remember, being a raging asshole doesn't count. secret meetings with oil interests, ignoring an executive order for disclosure of documents? what? Any prosecution will be quickly converted to a persecution, i.e., Scooter Libby, and this guy actually lied to the FBI, special prosecutor and a grand jury. Can you imagine the firestorm that will follow an impeachment hearing, which will invariably cripple the nation? and all of it will be blamed on the Democrats. I can't think of anything more counterproductive.

Any real shakeup cannot be through a bureaucratic or legislative exercise, that will just insight the populace. The only way to go about this is through the elective process. "Throw the bums out!" Having a legislator go after other government officials only angers constituencies. We have to beat down their supporters through a more basic, personal test of wills. Beat them through the elections. That way they cannot claim that anyone is playing politics. they just got beat fair and square.

Did President Clinton ever issue a signing statement saying he would not obey a section of any law passed by Congress that he was signing?

CNN is reporting that Senator Arlene Spector said Clinton did. I don't remember anyone ever saying this when the issue was first raised about Bush doing it.

I listened to TV analysts late last night, and they all said, first of all this will NOT bode well for Republians in next year's election, and Two, Bush's Legacy is now ir-repairable! This will take him down in history big time.

So it really IS a good thing for us. Outrageous, but still a good thing for us.

CNN is reporting that Senator Arlene Spector said Clinton did. I don't remember anyone ever saying this when the issue was first raised about Bush doing it.

Posted by SandyH on July 3, 2007 at 04:44 PM

I don't believe any words out of any Republican unless they show proof! Let Spector show examples.

Essie,

I tried to log in this AM to wish your dad well, and best of luck for your brother, but everytime I clicked on sign in I was directed to the DNC homepage. Therefore, consider this a belated get well wish for the three of you. Well, okay, a stay well wish for you.

Good early evening to you all!!

Sandy, ALL Presidents have used signing statements as a footnote clarifying their "sense of the act", meaning "I signed this because as I read it it deals with fundamental issues such as..."

NO President has EVER used a signing statement to say "I'll ignore this and that parts of this law" until the Chimp.

We have the momentum folks!

IMPEACH CHENEY. Let us declare our independence tomorrow from these corrupt fearmongers who have gutted the Constitution and sent this nations children to do their bidding.

We don't need to watch anymore of the drunken frat boy's limbo dance with the polls. Just how low can he go? To the bottom....and then straight to hell.

Now that I can post...

The extremely rabid right wing Chicago Tribune pulled no punches in today's Editorial.

But in nixing the prison term, Bush sent a terrible message to citizens and to government officials who are expected to serve the public with integrity. The way for a president to discourage the breaking of federal laws is by letting fairly rendered consequences play out, however uncomfortably for everyone involved. The message to a Scooter Libby ought to be the same as it is for other convicts: You do the crime, you do the time.

Do the crime, do the time

Sorry about that, davidual. We got it back as fast as we could. And to all, new open thread!

Yes, Clinton issued over 100 signing statements. Soem are innocuous. Others express reservations about the bill being signed. I think the one he issued for Telecommunications Act of 1996, among others, show how the bill would not strictly or entirely followed.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/signingstatements.php

"a wise, courageous, and just move..."

That's the GOP party line on this fiasco? Do they really think anybody believes that Bush isn't protecting his own ass with this Libby amnesty ploy?

Forget about double standards, Bush is promoting his image as one who is buying Libby's silence till after he's out of office...and beyond the reach of prosecution.

It's not about lying. It's about obstruction of justice. Bush has now come out of the shadows and began to play a major role in public to keep the truth from the American people.

The majority of Americans had become used to Bush lying to us. His attempts to circuvent the law from the sidelines have been masked in the past by a lot of legal mumbo jumbo from Gonzales. Not anymore.

He's now put himself out there as a sitting duck for all kinds of questions about what his true role is in this White House.

Bush can no longer hide behind the evil Vice Prsident. Since he's made himself an easy target, we really should oblige him and start taking square aim at his involvement in a lot of the administration's major corruption scandals.

He's not just a lying incompetent. The public now also see the President as a lying, scheming incompetent who is covering up something...maybe more than a few things criminal?

NO President has EVER used a signing statement to say "I'll ignore this and that parts of this law" until the Chimp.

Posted by DPD on July 3, 2007 at 04:49 PM

DPD,

I thought as much. Spector is doing interference again for the White House spin doctors.

So it really IS a good thing for us. Outrageous, but still a good thing for us.

Posted by PamB on July 3, 2007 at 04:45 PM

Nothing is more outrageous than Cheney saying he's a fourth branch of the government and can do whatever he wants because the Constitution never stipulated his limitations.

Not that was something right out of the mouth of P.T. Barnum.

Posted by Moses on July 3, 2007 at 05:14 PM

Ah, the conservative think tank hacks have their files open and ready to respond. What took you so long? Your masters will not be impressed. Snap to it from now on.

And to all, new open thread!

Posted by MichaelLink on July 3, 2007 at 05:01 PM

Don't be so shy. Put it in bold or caps. See everyone over there.

A
N
A
R
C
H
Y
looking better to me everyday.

Bush will just pardon himself before he leaves office.

STOP THE WAR!...BRING EM HOME NOW!

Besides saying he would direct the Justice department not to enforce parts of the telecommunications act of 1996, Clinton also said he would ignore parts of the 1996 Libertad Act.

Sandy, YOU try reading through the over 100 signing statements issued by Bubba and see how long it take you to respond to something. As for me a conservative think tank hack. That would be assuming that conservatives actually think. I prefer the label centrist libertarian if you insist on a label. But, I thought democrats don't like labels or stereotyping people.

Afternoon all,

I listened to a few minutes of the repig Fox station out of El Paso. Some dumb ass right-wing extremist was playing excerpts from ray-gun speeches in honor of the 4th of July. Give me a break.

limpbaugh is now saying that he is "running America". This must be his new infantile slogan. What a total ass.

This chimp thing makes me livid. Why didn't he grant pardons to the 150 death row inmates he killed in Texas including one mentally deficient individual.

I am thinking that cheney is making no big deal about the English bombings because he is planning a terrorist attack here for the Fourth of July. Then chimp can appoint himself dictator. Only time will tell.

Posted by SandyH on July 3, 2007 at 05:26 PM

Bwahahahahahahahaha

scalia would probably uphold chimp declaring himself dictator.

chimp and vice chimp are heading into dangerous territory ignoring OUR Constitution and not upholding our laws.

We have to vote ALL repugs out of office in 2008; however, I realize that there is a hard core of people that will still vote in people like hatch in Utah and stevens from Alaska. These will be the first people that will scream when chimp appoints himself dictator and congress does nothing about it.

But, I thought democrats don't like labels or stereotyping people.

Posted by Moses on July 3, 2007 at 05:37 PM

You shouldn't stereotype Democrats and label them as a whole.

Well,well, well... Another slap in the face to the American people. "Screw the justice system, screw the jury; in fact, screw everyone except for me and my cronies", Bush says without a modicom of shame. I never thought I'd advocate revolution, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's the only way we can get these corrupt, arrogant, "don't give a damn about the constitution" bastards out of power! Cheney should be in prison for the rest of his life, and Bush should be tried for treason. What else is it when you lie to the entire country about EVERYTHING? He makes Nixon look like a choir boy. I would like to see the Dem leaders organize some kind of walk-out, or sit-in or SOMETHING to demonstrate VISUALLY just how many Americans want these bozos gone! They have destroyed this country, and every day that they stay in power is another crater in our beloved democracy. C'mon folks - let's DO SOMETHING!!!

Judiciary Committee Schedules Hearing on Use and Misuse of Presidential Clemency Power
Submitted by davidswanson on Tue, 2007-07-03 23:14. Activism | Congress

(Washington, DC)- Today, House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, Jr. announced that he will be holding a full committee hearing next week titled, “The Use and Misuse of Presidential Clemency Power for Executive Branch Officials.” The hearing will be held next Wednesday, July 11, at 10:15 am in the committee’s hearing room, 2141 Rayburn House Office Building.

“In light of yesterday’s announcement by the President that he was commuting the prison sentence for Scooter Libby, it is imperative that Congress look into presidential authority to grant clemency, and how such power may be abused,” Conyers said. “Taken to its extreme, the use of such authority could completely circumvent the law enforcement process and prevent credible efforts to investigate wrongdoing in the executive branch.”

Who: The House Judiciary Committee

Witnesses, TBA

What: “The Use and Misuse of Presidential Clemency Power for Executive Branch Officials”

When: Wednesday, July 11, 2007, 10:15 am

Where: 2141 Rayburn House Office Building

See statements on the commuting of Scooter Libby’s sentence from Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers, Oversight Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, and Rules Committee Chairwoman Louise Slaughter: http://www.speaker.gov/blog/?p=547

****

Impeach Chimpo
Impeach Shotgun

Obstruction of Justice, Continued
Submitted by davidswanson on Tue, 2007-07-03 21:11. Criminal Prosecution

By Dan Froomkin, washingtonpost.com

During the course of I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby's trial for obstruction of justice and perjury, we learned a lot about his bosses.

Incremental discoveries that didn't garner major headlines nevertheless added to what we know -- and can reasonably surmise -- about Vice President Cheney and President Bush's role in the leak of CIA agent Valerie Plame's identity, which was revealed during the course of the administration's defense of its decision to go to war in Iraq.

We know, for instance, that Cheney was the first person to tell Libby about Plame's identity. We know that Cheney told Libby to leak Plame's identity to the New York Times in an attempt to discredit her husband, who had accused the administration of manipulating prewar intelligence. We know that Cheney wrote talking points that may have encouraged Libby and others to mention Plame to reporters. We know that Cheney once talked to Bush about Libby's assignment, and got permission from the president for Libby to leak hitherto classified information to the Times.

We don't know why Libby decided to lie to federal investigators about his role in the leak. But it's reasonable to conclude -- or at least strongly suspect -- that he was doing it to protect Cheney, and maybe even Bush.

Why, after all, was special counsel Patrick Fitzgerald so determined to get the truth from Libby and, barring that, to punish him for obstructing justice? Prosecutorial ethics preclude Fitzgerald, a Bush appointee, from answering such questions. But the most likely scenario is that he suspected that it was Cheney who committed the underlying crime -- that Cheney instructed Libby to out a CIA agent in his no-holds-barred crusade against a critic. (See my Feb. 21 column, The Cloud Over Cheney and my May 29 column, Fitzgerald Again Points to Cheney.)

All of this means that Bush's decision yesterday to commute Libby's prison sentence isn't just a matter of unequal justice. It is also a potentially self-serving and corrupt act.

Was there a quid pro quo at work? Was Libby being repaid for falling on his sword and protecting his bosses from further scrutiny? Alternately, was he being repaid for his defense team's abrupt decision in mid-trial not to drag Cheney into court, where he would have faced cross-examination by Fitzgerald? (See my March 8 column, Did Libby Make a Deal?)

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/24277

****

Bush has definitely screwed now. He has added more fuel to impeachment than the various movements could have ever mustered. Chimpo and Shotgun will be impeached.

Bill Maher is Wrong: Libby is the Straw That Broke the Camel's Back
by Cenk Uygur | Jul 3 2007 - 4:11pm | permalink
article tools: email | print | read more Cenk Uygur

Bill Maher wrote this morning that Bush letting Scooter Libby's off the hook is "not something that will upset Joe Sixpack." So, he argued that Bush had no downside for commuting Libby's sentence. He couldn't be more wrong.

Today, on our show we had Republicans and moderates calling in all day to say how angry they were. And we're still getting e-mails on our site. Here's one quick example. Kevin Greenhalgh wrote in:

"This is the last straw. I was not disappointed to see Bush and Cheney come into power in 2000. However, I have been driven by one scandal, no bid contract, crony appointment, lie, and military blunder after another to despise this administration and the republicans that empowered them...

It has been obvious that this administration cares nothing for the law or the Constitution, but now they have shown that they are above us all and their crimes aren't punished."

He makes the most important point at the end - they think they are above us. We know that none of us could get away with what they have done. This commutation (who doesn't hate this clunky word?) shows to the average guy that these people aren't held to the same standards as the rest of us. They can get away with crimes because they are powerful.

This really undermines our whole democracy. It's not about political minutia; it's about equality before the law. This hits home. We know for a fact we'd be sitting in that prison cell if we were in their shoes. And we know they got away with it purely based on who they are and who they know.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/8489

****

Chimpo and Shotgun are finished. Contact your rep and ask them to support HRES 333. Let's get the ball rolling with the impeachment of Cheney.

On His Last Day in Office, Bush Will Pardon Himself and Cheney
by Brent Budowsky | Jul 3 2007 - 1:20pm | permalink
article tools: email | print | read more Brent Budowsky

Congress should devise a set of subpoenas that would call the president and vice president to testify about actions that could constitute violations of law and set the stage for a historic Supreme Court decision that would determine whether any president is above the law.

George H. W. Bush charged that those who disclose the identities of covert operatives are committing the equivalent of treason, while George W. Bush believes that those who lie under oath about such matters should receive less jail time than Paris Hilton.

When the president stated he would not intervene in this case until all appeals had been heard, the president was lying.

A majority of Americans believes George W. Bush does not tell the truth. An overwhelming majority of Americans has come to disrespect and disapprove of this president. Throughout the free world there is revulsion and disgust about what this man has done.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/8486

****

Smirking Chimp is on fire tonight. All the blogs are a buzzing. Even Moveon will soon get with impeachment. Chimpo and Shotgun have now united the movements. They will be impeached.

Grand Jury: "Can We Indict Bush & Cheney?"
by Len Hart | Jul 3 2007 - 1:11pm | permalink
article tools: email | print | read more Len Hart

The answer is: Yes! A recently expired grand jury raised the question. It might have indicted but for a few details. Think of it. Bushman and Dickster might have been looking at hard jail time, impeachment, the possibility of war crimes trials.

My recent article --How the People May Bring Criminal Charges Against Bush --urged citizens to petition a judge to empanel a grand jury. My article pointed out that the people themselves may petition a court to convene a grand jury to investigate Bush's corrupt administration. Such a panel would have the power of the subpoena and the indictment. The legal standard for bringing an indictment against Bush or Cheney is "probable cause".

Since writing the article and while researching existing literature, I learned that the issue of of indictments against Bush and/or Cheney had, indeed, come up in the proceedings of at least one sitting grand jury.
Praise from a Member of a Recently Expired Grand Jury R. S. Nelson (SF Bay Area)Shortly after this book [ United States V. George W. Bush et al. ] became available, but before I became aware of it, I asked the federal prosecutor (or "AUSA" for Assistant US Attorney) we were working with at the time whether we could indict Bush & Cheney. As I expected, the question was not answered. Another member of the federal Grand Jury sharply and quickly asked me "Who would write the indictment?" Ms. de la Vega points out in the first paragraph of her Introduction that writing an indictment of Bush & Cheney is not a smart move for an AUSA to make if they wish to remain employed.

Had I known of retired AUSA de la Vega's book, I might have pushed for our Grand Jury to issue our own indictment without the help of the staff of the local US Attorney's office! There just might have been 11 other jurors besides myself who would have voted in favor of such an action... While Bush's Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez would be unlikely to allow prosecution of his fellow Republicans, the issuance of an indictment by a sitting federal Grand Jury would probably garner some interesting news coverage!

...

On some days the start of the Grand Jury session needed to be postponed until a quorum appeared. It was during these interludes of waiting with the AUSA present that questions like "Can we indict Bush & Cheney" could be entertained.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/8484

rj, I am honestly not disagreeing with your continued call for impeachment. But, honestly, is it a realistic possibility at this stage of the game? First someone has to bring evidence of impeachable offenses to the House, which will then have to investigate, and then vote, and then bring their case to the Senate. That process took longer than the Ken Starr fiasco before the House acted in the Clinton impeachment.

Again, I am not saying there isn't a case to be made for impeachment, but I simply see that there is time before the clown in gone anyway.

Bush will just pardon himself before he leaves office.

STOP THE WAR!...BRING EM HOME NOW!

Posted by wackat on July 3, 2007 at 05:29 PM
*****

Impeach Chimpo, Shotgun ... then it will be easy to bring all the troops home.

rj, I am honestly not disagreeing with your continued call for impeachment. But, honestly, is it a realistic possibility at this stage of the game? First someone has to bring evidence of impeachable offenses to the House, which will then have to investigate, and then vote, and then bring their case to the Senate. That process took longer than the Ken Starr fiasco before the House acted in the Clinton impeachment.

Again, I am not saying there isn't a case to be made for impeachment, but I simply see that there is time before the clown is gone anyway.

rj, I am honestly not disagreeing with your continued call for impeachment. But, honestly, is it a realistic possibility at this stage of the game? First someone has to bring evidence of impeachable offenses to the House, which will then have to investigate, and then vote, and then bring their case to the Senate. That process took longer than the Ken Starr fiasco before the House acted in the Clinton impeachment.

Again, I am not saying there isn't a case to be made for impeachment, but I simply don't see that there is time before the clown is gone anyway.

I believe once the supoenas are obeyed, and information is released, we my then have the information we need to impeach, but in the meantime, we have nothing in proof to do so.
****

Pamb, it's a catch-22. The only way to break the logjam is to start impeachment. Start with Cheney first.

you're all falling into a trap; a giant rovian trap! there is no rock-solid case for impeachment...
****

Nope I think you are playing into a Rovian trap by using all of Rove's excuses for not impeaching.

I can't believe Dems still give Rove so much credit. He bragged he had the math and throughout the 2006 campaign I listened to the most ridiculous theories on how he was going to beat us. It didn;t happen now did it? All he had was the GOP always has - voter suppression tactics ... nothing new really except they took it to new highs by enlisting US Attorneys in the efforts. Now, Dems are worried about a Rove trap on impeachment. Come on now ... it's time to stop fearing your own shadow, Rove is finished. Bush and Cheney ae finished if we want it to be so.

First someone has to bring evidence of impeachable offenses to the House, which will then have to investigate, and then vote, and then bring their case to the Senate
****

Excuse me but Kucinich already did that. It;s called HRES 333. You can ignore it if you want but impeachment of Cheney is there on the table. There is no stopping it now.

They have destroyed this country, and every day that they stay in power is another crater in our beloved democracy. C'mon folks - let's DO SOMETHING!!!

Posted by comebackusa on July 3, 2007 at 06:58 PM
****

Yes, support HRES 333 - impeachment of Cheney. It's a start.

Some dumb ass right-wing extremist was playing excerpts from ray-gun speeches in honor of the 4th of July. Give me a break.
****

Screw operation coffee cup Ray-Gun and the hell with Rush Limbaugh.

The two chimps are going to be impeached. It's inevitable. They have created a situation where there is no choice.

He's not just a lying incompetent. The public now also see the President as a lying, scheming incompetent who is covering up something...maybe more than a few things criminal?

Posted by SandyH on July 3, 2007 at 05:16 PM
****

Sandy, first step is to start the impeachment process against Cheney. From there we will learn enough about Bush's role in all of this treason.

I'm not trying to make excuse, Rovian or otherwise. Explain how the process of impeachment can be carried out and accomplished before the election process starts to divert the public's attention and actually negates the need for impeachment. I guess what I am saying is that what will impeachment really accomplish for Democrats? Will it help them win the White House in 2008? How will removing the party's two best and biggest targets help?

l-Qaeda In Iraq Bush's Creation
by Bill Gallagher | Jul 3 2007 - 9:01am | permalink
article tools: email | print | read more Bill Gallagher

— from the Niagara Falls Reporter (posted with permission)

DETROIT -- President George W. Bush's political capital is about as low as it can go, with only dead-end Bushists clinging to his failed regime. The erosion of support, however, can actually make the madman even more isolated from reality, arrogant and impetuous.

The final 18 months of his presidency will be an increasingly dangerous time for the world. Bush is wrapping himself in his messianic blanket, still bound to convince the infidels at home and abroad that he is a gifted visionary who can reshape the Middle East.

Vice President Dick Cheney makes Dr. Strangelove seem like Gandhi. Cheney operates above the Congress, the Constitution, the law and human decency -- at times, above the presidency. He does as he pleases and is answerable to no one.

Bush is not nearly clever enough to sort through or keep up with Cheney's Machiavellian machinations. The president is so lazy and incurious, he's more than willing to let Cheney do his dirty work. Whether it is approving torture, illegal wiretapping, concentration camps and kidnappings, or coddling corporate polluters, Cheney is ready to nod OK.

The poll numbers are encouraging, as Americans see through the lies and conclude -- tragically, too late -- what a mess we are in. The percentage of Americans who believe the war in Iraq was a mistake is at an all-time high, as is the percentage of those who say continued U.S. military action there is not morally justified.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/8477

****

Impeachment. Start with Cheney first. Without him Bush is a stumbling, bumbling baffoon.

Olbermann is going to call for Bush and Cheney to resign. I would add resign or be impeached.

I guess what I am saying is that what will impeachment really accomplish for Democrats?
****

Accomplish? Your talking politics and I am talking rule of law. If you want to continue talking about this as if it's just politics, then I have nothing to add to that conversation. This is serious. Our nation is at threat from a real dictatorship of Bush-Cheney. My gawd people are still talking about political calculation. That just makes no sense.

harpo I have been accused of being you or a plant rather than the independent centrist I am. So explain why you think Georgie and Dicky should not be investigated based on one's claim that he isn't part of the executive branch and the other's well, just ineptness and his commuting of Libby's sentence.

Bush Commutes Libby's Jail Sentence
by David Corn | Jul 3 2007 - 8:06am | permalink
article tools: email | print | read more David Corn

It's appropriate.

The president who led the nation into a disastrous war in Iraq by peddling false statements and misrepresentations has come to the rescue of a White House aide convicted of lying by commuting his sentence. Before the ink was dry on today's court order denying Scooter Libby's latest appeal--a motion to allow him to stay out of jail while he was challenging his conviction--George W. Bush commuted Libby's sentence. Libby will no longer have to serve the 30-month prison sentence ordered by federal district court Judge Reggie Walton. He will, though, have to pay the $250,000 fine that was part of the sentence.

The commutation--which is not a pardon and does not erase Libby's conviction--is a reminder that Bush and his crew do not believe in accountability. Bush has been rather stingy in the use of his pardon power. And regulations issued by his Justice Department note that recipients of pardons should serve their sentences and demonstrate contrition before obtaining presidential absolution. (Libby had expressed no remorse and was not scheduled to report to jail for several weeks.) Yet with this commutation, Bush ducked those requirements, and he is allowing Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, who was found guilty of lying to federal investigators in the CIA leak case, to go unpunished. The fine will be no problem for Libby. His neoconservative friends and admirers will kick in to cover that tab. (Perhaps even Cheney will send a check.)

Libby had become a symbol of the Bush White House's problem with the truth. After all, his lies had been designed to block FBI agents and federal prosecutors from learning the full truth of a White House effort to discredit a critic who had accused the Bush administration of twisting the prewar intelligence. And now the final act in the long-running CIA leak scandal--Bush's commutation--stands as another symbol of this grand theme: lying doesn't really bother this crowd. In the 2000 presidential campaign, Bush claimed he would bring responsibility to the White House and, as a PR stunt, he dubbed his campaign jet Accountability One. Yet with this commutation, he takes the position that in his administration an aide who purposefully misleads government officials investigating a possible national security crime need not be held fully accountable.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/8472

rj, okay. Politics, aside. Exactly what laws did Bush or Cheney break and how? Please, not your gut reaction, with which I probably agree. You have said that the truth will come out. I agree. Where we disagree is on how long it will take. I think it would take up to and including the conventions.

Sorry but I have to cut out of here. My better half just called for soemthing on the honey do list.

War Criminal Commutes Sentence of Convicted Perjurer at Behest of Traitor
by Tony Hendra | Jul 3 2007 - 12:47am | permalink
article tools: email | print | read more Tony Hendra

Honor among liars, killers - and thieves.

Forget all the carefully measured, judicious judicial analyses. Here's what actually went on today. George Bush who has so far been directly responsible for the deaths of at least two hundred thousand of his fellow human beings (that was the most reliable count more than a year ago) is a mass-murderer. That's letting him off the hook for the close to half a million lives lost in the civil war he set in motion. And it doesn't even count the most important figure of all: the 3500-plus incalculably precious lives of our children he's ended with his bare-faced lies and whom he refuses to stop murdering because then he would lose face, the poor thing.

This gutless, whining coward who deserves to spend the rest of his worthless life in a 23-hour lockdown has just set free a convicted perjurer. For the buzz of the drug called power, aforementioned perjuring reptile did anything for his master however immoral, unconstitutional and criminal, but just like they got Al Capone for taxes, The Man got him on a technicality: lying under oath. (You know that thing his fellow mobsters impeached Bill Clinton for).

But this was no ordinary lie under oath. It was a coverup for his employer who is almost certainly a textbook traitor. No, that's not polemic overstatement. Just to drive this home one more time: revealing a covert CIA agent's identity is treason. It's treason because it gives aid and comfort to the enemy by informing him that all the other people that person has dealings with may be threats to him. Especially in time of war, a state in which according the Banana Republican junta, we are currently residing. For ordinary people this treason would quite rightly be punishable by death.

Which brings us to the main event: the fat sack of moral sewage called Richard Cheney.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/8468

Okay for all you fans of political calculation. Here's some good questions for you:

Setting The Table
Submitted by davidswanson on Wed, 2007-07-04 00:02. Impeachment

By Scarecrow, Fire Dog Lake

Ask yourself this: suppose the Democrats had announced weeks/months ago that impeachment was “on the table,” that they were deeply concerned about the Administration’s abuse of power, that it was undermining the Constitution and the rule of law across the board. There’s lots more you could add to the list, but you get the idea.

Suppose they had also said that impeachment wasn’t what they’d planned, and they certainly didn’t need it to retake the White House in 2008 given this Administration’s failures, but that they had become so concerned about the Administration’s blatant lawlessness, and the possibility it could get even worse, that they wanted to make sure a vehicle was in place before then, if it seemed needed to prevent irretrievable damage to the country.

Suppose they had also said that the Administration’s very acts of stonewalling every investigation being conducted to uncover wrongdoing could be viewed as an abuse of power, a coverup and potential support for an article of impeachment. For example, take the inquiry into whether the Administration had been careless in protecting national security secrets and assets; were they still trying to coverup the lying? Suppose that had been the setting yesterday, just before the President slipped his commutation into the media.

1. Would the President have hesitated in his actions yesterday?

2. Would the President have paid a higher price for his actions? e.g., would the public be more likely to see yesterday’s actions as a confirmation of what the Democrats had been saying? Would that give the Republican’s pause in defending it?

3. Would Democrats be in better shape both politically and legally to respond to the White House tactics regarding subpoenas and other investigative actions?

4. Would the Democrats be in better or worse shape for making the argument that the regime does not deserve to be in office, and that hence, removing them from office was now a more legitimate question?

5. Would the Democrats be in better or worse shape for the 2008 elections?

July 4 is a great day to "HONK TO IMPEACH" because there's already lots of noise from fireworks and people are relaxed. So here's our plan:

and the plan is?

Hello everyone.

For all those who fear beginning the investigation of Bush and Chenney for impeachment, consider this:
What did the repigs have when they started and what was the impact on the Gore campaign?

Let nature take its course. Defend the constitution and begin the process. Put the chimp under oath and ask him about cocaine. The constitution needs to be defended against these fools regardless of what some are afraid will be the political outcome. There is no political downside for those defending the constitution especially when that defense is against a bunch of right wing political neo-cons who value party ahead of country. Let's get the process started.

Okay,
That's my .02
Happy 4th
g'nite

Seens the asshat fits harpo real good!