Who needs Petraeus?...the right wing talking points about Iraq were set by hate talk radio. Want to know seven good reasons we must stay in Iraq? Yes, this is a real letter.

Seven Good Reasons To Keep Our Troops On Iraq Battleground

Just a glimpse of the disconnect from reality:

"3. Our troops are getting superb experience in the type of battles that are likely to be fought in the coming years. If we leave Iraq before accomplishing the mission our troops will still be better prepared to fight in the streets of the U.S. when the Islamic radicals rise up and strike."

Thanks for giving this story the attention it deserves. This is a huge deal, exposing the unfortunate fact that General Petraeus is being used as a vehicle for White House political games.
We in the Democratic party need to move quickly to label this report as The President's report, and dissociate honest assesments of the situation on the ground from this cowardly trick.
That Americans increasingly believe that "things are getting better in Iraq is the direct result of a new campaign of deception by the White House, manufacturing "objective analysts" like Times op-ed writers Michael E. O'Hanlon and Kenneth M. Pollack who are vaunted as converts to the surge strategy, though their past shows long support of the administration.
Now, General Petraues is being used in the same way, to create a national media story of steady progress and to cast the Democrats as pessimists who are denying reality. It's like 2004 all over again.
But this time we've got to hit back and hit back hard, starting by challenging the legitimacy of the Petraeus report and beginning the debate on America's future in Iraq now. No waiting until September. Two days after the deadliest attack on civilians since the war began it is clear that things are NOT getting better and we should agressively challenge anyone who says otherwise. Democrats should call Republican supporters of the surge: "too cowardly to face the reality on the ground" and "afraid to hear the truth from the Generals themselves."
They are weak, we are strong, and this is THEIR false and cowardly report. Grab the nearest bullhorn and start spreading the word.

The democrats can cut to the chase and put an end to this nonsense by simply withholding funds.

Run Cindy run!

It's interesting to note that the day before Dana Perino made the statement that you quote above, she made this statement

"Obviously, there is going to be a report from Ambassador Crocker and General David Petraeus in September. We'll have to take a look at those."

Published on Sunday, August 19, 2007 by the International Herald Tribune
The Iraq War As We See It

Viewed from Iraq at the tail end of a 15-month deployment, the political debate in Washington is surreal.

Counterinsurgency is, by definition, a competition between insurgents and counterinsurgents for the control and support of a population. To believe that Americans, with an occupying force that long ago outlived its reluctant welcome, can win over a recalcitrant local population and win this counterinsurgency is far-fetched.

As responsible infantrymen and noncommissioned officers with the 82nd Airborne Division soon heading back home, we are skeptical of recent press coverage portraying the conflict as increasingly manageable and feel it has neglected the mounting civil, political and social unrest we see every day. (Obviously, these are our personal views and should not be seen as official within our chain of command.)

The claim that we are increasingly in control of the battlefields in Iraq is an assessment arrived at through a flawed, American-centered framework. Yes, we are militarily superior, but our successes are offset by failures elsewhere. What soldiers call the “battle space” remains the same, with changes only at the margins.

It is crowded with actors who do not fit neatly into boxes: Sunni extremists, Al Qaeda terrorists, Shiite militiamen, criminals and armed tribes. This situation is made more complex by the questionable loyalties and Janus-faced role of the Iraqi police and Iraqi Army, which have been trained and armed at U.S. taxpayers’ expense.

A few nights ago, for example, we witnessed the death of one American soldier and the critical wounding of two others when a lethal armor-piercing explosive was detonated between an Iraqi Army checkpoint and a police one. Local Iraqis readily testified to American investigators that Iraqi police and army officers escorted the triggermen and helped plant the bomb. These civilians highlighted their own predicament: Had they informed the Americans of the bomb before the incident, the Iraqi Army, the police or the local Shiite militia would have killed their families.

As many grunts will tell you, this is a near-routine event. Reports that a majority of Iraqi army commanders are now reliable partners can be considered only misleading rhetoric. The truth is that battalion commanders, even if well meaning, have little to no influence over the thousands of obstinate men under them, in an incoherent chain of command, who are really loyal only to their militias.

Similarly, Sunnis, who have been underrepresented in the new Iraqi armed forces, now find themselves forming militias, sometimes with our tacit support. Sunnis recognize that the best guarantee they may have against Shiite militias and the Shiite-dominated government is to form their own armed bands. We arm them to aid in our fight against Al Qaeda.

However, while creating proxies is essential in winning a counterinsurgency, it requires that the proxies are loyal to the center that we claim to support. Armed Sunni tribes have indeed become effective surrogates, but the enduring question is where their loyalties would lie in our absence. The Iraqi government finds itself working at cross purposes with us on this issue because it is justifiably fearful that Sunni militias will turn on it should the Americans leave.

In short, we operate in a bewildering context of determined enemies and questionable allies, one where the balance of forces on the ground remains entirely unclear. (In the course of writing this article, this fact became all too clear: One of us, Staff Sergeant Murphy, a U.S. Army Ranger and reconnaissance team leader, was shot in the head during a “time-sensitive target acquisition mission” on August 12; he is expected to survive and is being flown to a military hospital in the United States.) While we have the will and the resources to fight in this context, we are effectively hamstrung because realities on the ground require measures we will always refuse - namely, the widespread use of lethal and brutal force.

Given the situation, it is important not to assess security from an American-centered perspective. The ability of, say, American observers to safely walk down the streets of formerly violent towns is not a resounding indicator of security. What matters is the experience of the local citizenry and the future of our counterinsurgency. When we take this view, we see that a vast majority of Iraqis feel increasingly insecure and view us as an occupation force that has failed to produce normalcy after four years and is increasingly unlikely to do so as we continue to arm each warring side.

Coupling our military strategy to an insistence that the Iraqis meet political benchmarks for reconciliation is also unhelpful. The morass in the government has fueled confusion while providing no semblance of security to average Iraqis. Leaders are far from arriving at a lasting political settlement. This should not be surprising, since a lasting political solution will not be possible while the military situation remains in flux.

The Iraqi government is run by the main coalition partners of the Shiite-dominated United Iraqi Alliance, with Kurds as minority members. The Shiite clerical establishment formed the alliance to make sure its people did not succumb to the same mistake as in 1920: rebelling against the British and losing what they believed was their inherent right to rule Iraq as the majority. The qualified and reluctant welcome we received from the Shiites since the invasion has to be seen in that historical context. They saw in us something useful for the moment.

Now that moment is passing, as the Shiites have achieved what they believe is rightfully theirs. Their next task is to figure out how best to consolidate the gains, because reconciliation without consolidation risks losing it all. Washington’s insistence that the Iraqis correct the three gravest mistakes we made - de-Baathification, the dismantling of the Iraqi Army and the creation of a loose federalist system of government - places us at cross purposes with the government we have committed to support.

Political reconciliation in Iraq will occur, but not at our insistence or in ways that meet our benchmarks. It will happen on Iraqi terms when the reality on the battlefield is congruent with that in the political sphere. There will be no magnanimous solutions that please every party the way we expect, and there will be winners and losers. The choice we have left is to decide which side we will take. Trying to please every party - as we do now - will only ensure we are hated by all in the long run.

The most important front in the counterinsurgency, improving basic social and economic conditions, is the one on which we have failed most miserably. Two million Iraqis are in refugee camps in bordering countries. Close to two million more are internally displaced and now fill many urban slums. Cities lack regular electricity, telephone services and sanitation. “Lucky” Iraqis live in communities barricaded with concrete walls that provide them with a sense of communal claustrophobia rather than any sense of security we would consider normal. In an environment where men with guns rule the streets, engaging in the banalities of life has become a death-defying act.

Four years into our occupation, we have failed on every promise, while we have substituted Baath Party tyranny with a tyranny of Islamist, militia and criminal violence. When the primary preoccupation of average Iraqis is when and how they are likely to be killed, we can hardly feel smug as we hand out care packages. As an Iraqi man told us a few days ago with deep resignation, “We need security, not free food.”

In the end, we need to recognize that our presence may have released Iraqis from the grip of a tyrant, but that it has also robbed them of their self-respect. They will soon realize that the best way to regain dignity is to call us what we are - an army of occupation - and force our withdrawal.

Until that happens, it would be prudent for us to increasingly let Iraqis take center stage in all matters, to come up with a nuanced policy in which we assist them from the margins but let them resolve their differences as they see fit. This suggestion is not meant to be defeatist, but rather to highlight our pursuit of incompatible policies to absurd ends without recognizing the incongruities.

We need not talk about our morale. As committed soldiers, we will see this mission through.

Buddhika Jayamaha is a U.S. Army specialist. Wesley D. Smith is a sergeant. Jeremy Roebuck is a sergeant. Omar Mora is a sergeant. Edward Sandmeier is a sergeant. Yance T. Gray is a staff sergeant. Jeremy A. Murphy is a staff sergeant.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/08/19/3270/

alaskan,i guess you would rather see our troops die in a civil war that can never be won by us.sounds like you are the one that can accept years and years of american and innocent civilians deaths just because you cannot accept defeat. win at all costs,just for one mans ego!!take your blinders off,see things the way they are.these are peoples lives,this is no video game.

Just as important as how people answer questions, is what they don't say...what they avoid saying.....the verbal semantics they go through to avoid giving honest and direct answers.
If you listen (read) to Bush's words very carefully, you will notice just how skillfully he misrepresents facts and twists information, sometimes wandering off in a totally different direction, and generally avoids giving honest answers to questions.
For instance, he says that he will listen to his general, to Members of Congress, etc., about the situation in Iraq. Nowhere does he say that he will take their opinions into serious consideration, or that this will have any impact on his decision.
As he has told us repeatedly, he alone is "the decider."
After six years in the oval office, what part of "with the advice and consent of Congress" does he not yet understand?

We can debate until kingdom come but this report will be a rigged assessment, by the WH or Petraeus/Crocker or both with the only goal of handcuffing all opposition into the 2008 elections. Didn't Petraus already put in print a rosy assessment of Iraq in the week's prior to the 2004 election? Hopefully we have a response ready to go (the GOP playbook would smear and defame Petreaus as a partisan) and if not it will not be a pretty sight as the conservative echo chamber cranks up. We've already seen the effects of their blowback at Harry Reid after his off the cuff doubts about Petraeus' objectivity.

The current White House went way too far thinking they had to make up reasons for going into Iraq when it came to terrorism. Now, the Republican administration is doing the same exact thing in the public’s face by making up reasons for staying in Iraq?

The administration was never held accountable for their mistakes by the Republican elect or through our American Institutions under Republican leadership. The world needed to look at the Middle Eastern government political agenda that plays into the ideology of terrorism and hold them accountable. Instead, the Republican leaders own internationally sensationalized American political agenda is what the world is focused on right now.

When will this Republican leadership end, let alone the Iraq war?

Look out....The Democrats have made an enormous blunder raising the white flag and advocating abject surrender in Iraq. The surge has had significantly positive effects and gives the Iraqi people a real chance of eliminating the most radical elements within their society. Local govt's are beginning to function, services are being restored and the prospects for success on the national level are increasing. Too bad you guys gave in to the Daily Kos extremists. 2008's not going to be as easy as you thought.

Seven good reasons to bring the troops home

1. Cause they can get a college education instead of do what they are payed to do.
2. Keep Cindy Sheehan quiet
3. When the problems arrise after they are home, blame it on bush.
4. Dig in Coal Mines
5. When Bush is out of office, blame the troops for not doing a good job.
6. Reduce the Military and put more people out of work.
7. Ole Reliable, Raise Taxes and blame it all on the Republicans

This sight give me the idea. Cindy Sheeps Hand Determined

Hopefully you guys will not delete me. I am running out of names. Lets see if we can keep it honest, short and without name calling. I will go down the list very briefly from the top.

There seven good reasons to keep the troops in Iraq is not different than your seven good reasons to bring em home. It is about the parties getting their way. Both parties are using the troops as pawns.

Peoples Lives, No video game, Sir, you need to listen to those words. I have seen people shot and treated like real dirt. You are in your protected little shell in the states. You are not going to tell me I have blinders on. You need to maybe put some glasses on.

I have worked around the world, but I don't have to convince you. Besides you have your mind already made up and guess what, so do I. You are a dem and I a Rep.

You guys constantly slag Bush and only because Clinton was Impeached. You will never admit it, but that is what drives the hatred in the Democratic Party. If you are not a Dem, you are a no body. So why shouldn't people of other beliefs and political views run from you guys.

It is people like you that see this as a video game. I get on a plane every two weeks in the middle east and risk my life with a possible hijacking, but you know, if it gets hijacked and I am another statistic on an obituary, that is my fault and my decission.

You are the people that must grow up and realise, it is you that creats and forms your life, not others. Become somebody, not something in someone elses life.

I am alaskan, and I have lived overseas for 44 years. I have about five years in the middle east and in Saudi Now. I support fully the troops over here, and their mission. I have my reasons, but you will only slag em and I am starting to grow tired of hearing your reasons to bring em back. You aint changing my mind.

Hey Peaceman

I am Alaskan. It amazes me how you guys just delete comments and kick people off this sight when they speak how they feel. Since you don't like what they say, you just hit the delete button. Now as history has shown the great powers that failed in life did the exact same thing. They were some of the political powers in Germany, Italy and Spain during WWII. You say I have blinders on. If I knew I would not get deleted off here, I would go into great detail. But I will give you this much, I have lived in all the continents except for Antarctica. I have worked in 26 different nations, many I would take a leak on if it was on fire. I don't know where you have been, and maybe you have been to more and lived in more different cultures than I, but one thing will always be the same. YOU WILL MOST LIKELY ALWAYS BE A DEM, AND SIR, I WILL ALWAYS NOT BE A DEMOCRAT. I DON'T PRETEND TO KNOW EVERYTHING, BUT EVERYTHING I COMMENT ON IS WHAT I KNOW HAS HAPPENED BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES. I DON'T NEED SOMEONE TO "EDUCATE" ME IN MY POLITICAL VIEWS.

And if you really want to know why I come on here, is to see how destorted this party is in there mentality and thinking. The hatred that comes out only makes others dig deeper to keep their beliefs sound and stead fast. I am just glad I can come on here and state my beliefs. If you can sit around and bad mouth Bush all the time, than I should have the right to come on here and bad mouth Dems and Clinton and other Dems. Yet you choose to hit the Delete button. just remember, I have seen alot of ways to do things over the years, and have learned from some of the best. If I can't speak my mind on here with Billary or Slick Willie, with you deleting me, then I will sink my ole Missouri Mule heals in keep inventing new names and haunt this sight with my chosen slag names of all of em. Remember I am 49 and retiring in two years, and not from the help of ANY political power either.

Hey Independent,
If the boots on the ground says get out then that is who we should be listening to....and it appears that is what they are saying, by an overwhelming majority. If you are retiring at 51....good for you, sorta makes you the elite priveledged minority but then again, given the ages of deployees I've seen in my home state's national guard its not too late for you to use your retirement for the good of the nation and volunteer for duty in Iraq.

hey alaskan,for 1 thing i didn't delete you,in fact i returned later to this site and your post was gone.it looked to me like i replyed to nothing.as for hate in a party you better look at you own. your party hates gays,woman and minoritys for no reason but thats what they are.or mabe bcause of the bible, don't get me started.the reason you get the reaction you do mabe is this is a DEMOCRATIC blog site, what do you expect ? for people to agree with you? sounds to me you just like to argue,your not going to change,nor will we.so why put yourself through this.

if i went to a rep site and spoke my mind i would be called ( unamerican ) or mabe get arrested and held with no bale or no charges,or have my phone tapped without a warrent,or mabe tourtured by the military.i don't need glasses SIR i see things the way they are.

No you didnt. but this sight did and that is the point I am making and you can read it all over this sight. Make radical comments about people such as myself, whom I know are BS, cause if you have more experience than I with different cultures and nationalities you are a very much traveled person. because they don't agree with your thoughts or ideas, just as Hillary did the other day you dems jumped on her case. I go alot by history with my statements. Dems believe in High Taxes, that is a given.

I am a Conservative first before a Republican. Gays, I don't hate them, just stay away from me. That is not hatred. Hatred is KKK stuff. They can cornhole whome ever they want, just don't come around me and there will be no hatred things done to you. But just as I am to them, you are to me, because you consider me a Republican and a different or strange person. So I guess you too are a hatred person, you hate republicans. So what makes you different from republicans. It is only the target that has changed.

Hate women, where did you come up with that. My best friend is my wife. I allow here to make many financial and purchasing decissions in my life because she is excellent at it.

Minoritys, you get back from me exactly what you put at me. You put respect to me, you get repect back. You put hatred at me, you will get the same back.

Last reason, is I laugh most of the way throught this because about 75% is BS. You just repeat what you see on TV and what other say. Some of you don't want to make YOUR OWN decission. You let people try and make your decission for you so you don't have to use the thinking process and process of evaluation to make up your own mind.

And for you going to Republican sights, go ahead and have fun. I don't go to them, because you see the same crap there that you do here. They are just as brain washed. Not necessarily by believing how their party believes, but just like you, if the Dems like it you like it. Well reps are no difference.

It will be a sad day when the civil war comes home to roost in the USA. Because just remember you heard it hear first. A civil war is coming to the states again. Whether you want in or out of Iraq, that is not the question. Abraham Lincoln said "A house divided will not stand" and our house is divided, and in my opinion not by iraq, but by two parties that have developed hatred for each other. All I can say, is I have prepared for this, and if does not come to pass, then it is my monetary loss. But if I am right, then it will be my gain, or my extended gain for a while anyway.

Staying in Iraq indefinately is not the answer, and neither is pulling up stakes and high tailing it home. I believe partially what the Dems are saying but not all. Same goes for Bush. We need to find a compromise instead of digging our heals in with one another. But if the parties of the US are going to act this way, you had better believe that there are many people that are doing the same as I am.

dertermined,you claim to be well traveled,but i guess you don.t read much,reps tryed to block a womans right to vote,negro americans right to vote.tryed to stop interacial marriage,now they are after gay people.the kkk is a right wing christian organazation,hence the big crosses they wear and burn in black peoples yards.as for my party lolalty,i dont agree with them on immagration,i agree with the reps on welfare reform.you mke general statements about me,you don't even know me.i stand against social injustice,racism and intolerance, those are not on party lines, they are personal beliefs.i dont hate anyone,im just very passionate about my beliefs.im antiwar!! im a blue collar worker,living from paycheck to paycheck and ive seen my share so get off you high horse already.

next left wing

Number your statements so I can answer em better.

I don't listen to the Republicans so they can't lie to me. I only listen to the Dems.

Denial-you know he lies, now that must mean your talking about Bush. OK, I thought all politians lied. Even slick willie lied to the nation on TV
and did it with pretty poor fashion if you ask me.

Bargaining-Making clinton look as bad as bush. Now see, you are totally wrong on that one. He is much worse and he did it all himself.

Shame-Republicans no good. I will agree with that. Dems, well, I don't know what you call them.

Anger-calling people names who point at Bush's Failures. Who's Angry. Disgusted maybe, but not angry. This crap ain't worth getting ticked over. it is kinda fun actually

Depression-Lies and incompetence. Well, I do sort of admire how they get ahead in life.

Acceptance and Hope-this is the easiest one. I never vote to get someone out of office. That is the wrong reason to vote. I vote what is best for me. So, do I vote D or R?

I know what D means. Guaranteed more taxes, more freebees, more take from me to give to someone else whom I don't even know, allow illegals amnesty,

I know that R means, Political problems, Advancement for the good of Corporations, Build up of Military, Conflict between major political parties, and I am sure you can think of plenty more.

So, I must cast a vote. Which one is for me, I could care less about you, but for me..........I will vote the R since there is no other party that is for me. The dems take from me, so that leaves them out. The Reps, atleast they allow me to make a good living. Afterall, you are only on this earth one time. I am an athiest too, so you can't call me a bible thumper

JAPSET.YOU ARE RIGHT,THE CONSERVATIVES THINK ABOUT WHATS GOOD FOR THEM.LIBERALS THING WHATS GOOD FOR EVERYONE.

yOU CALL TAXES GOOD? i KNEW SOMETHING WAS WRONG WITH THE LIBS

TAXES ARE NOT GOOD FOR ME. DEMS ARE THE PARTY OF THE TAXES. I PAY INCOME TAX, STATE TAX, ROAD TAX, SALES TAX, SCHOOL TAX, AND IF YOU ARE LUCKY ENOUGH ON SOME ITEMS, LUXURY TAX.

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU DID FOR ME?

THE BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN YOU AND I, IS I DON'T WANT YOUR HELP OR THE GOVERNMENTS HELP. I CAN TAKE CARE OF MYSELF THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I AM AN INDEPENDENT PERSON, THAT HAS WORKED SINCE 15 YEARS OLD (35 YEARS) WITH HELP FROM NO ONE. I DON'T WANT HELP OR ASSISTANCE.

ALL THE ROBIN HOODS IN THIS LIFE TELLS THE RICH OR WELL OFF MUST PAY HIGHER TAXES TO HELP THE POOR, AND THE SAME PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING THAT COLLECT MORE OF THAT MONEY THAT WORK FOR THE GOV OR OFF OF THE TAXES AND CONVINCE THE DUMP ONES THAT THEY ARE WORKING FOR THEM.

I HAVE TO ADMIT, YOU GOT THE GIFT OF THE GAB. SO I GUESS KEEP IT UP. FOR OVER 200 YEARS YOU BEEN DOING IT AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT STILL BELIEVE IT. YOU WOULD THINK THEY WOULD LEARN THAT IT HAS STILL GOT THE SAME PERCENTAGE IN THE PO HOUSE

I don't come on her to enlighten you. Your brain is already enlightened. I come on here to have a good time because you guys actually believe the crap you put on here.

Hey I used to Be determined. block a womans right to vote. ok, if you say so. Where did you come up with that. They have every right to vote just as I, but if you want to believe it go ahead. I don't read but about every few words of that stuff anyway, cause your just yacking. I love this sight

pieceman

accept defeat dude

I guess I am getting bored with this stuff now, so I will go and bother some other blog. you guys truly amaze me. hold your head up though, you are slowly learning something

bustnmove,im not talking about you you bonehead,im talkng about the history of your party!!you were saying how the dems hate reps,the reps have a history of hate that continues today.as far as taxes,how do you pay your police?fire dept.? with no taxes, you have no goverment.id rather pay more taxes that help less fortunate than me than to let some ahole like you have more money!!

just your normal conservative,thick headed,narrowminded.like i said BLINDERS.

If Iraq's Prime Minister Maliki doesn't agree with the United States occupation, oust him, Senator Clinton and Levin say. Is that democracy or what?

"I share Senator Levin's hope that the Iraqi parliament will replace Prime Minister Maliki with a less divisive and more unifying figure when it returns in a few weeks," Clinton said in a statement.

Fed up with the criticism, Maliki fired back in comments to reporters early Wednesday, saying that the United States should not impose conditions on his government.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/22/AR2007082200323.html?wpisrc=newsletter&wpisrc=newsletter

Blinders on what? I am member of my family. I make no commitment to any party. Politician come and go like the direction of the wind. Hey, more power to you if it makes you happy following a bunch of loosers. They are on both sides of the aisle.

All I ask, is for once in your life, sit down and decide what YOU want out of life. As long as it is legal and not going to physically hurt someone, do it. Work hard at it and tell people to get out of your way. It has worked everytime for me. Basically, it is called taking control of your life. I am not trying to save the world. The world has given me nothing. I figured out, that actually the world whether it is the unemployed to some preacher in a church, are just trying to get something from me. I steer clear of that kind and my life is been doing quite well. It is sort of what your mom told you when you were a kid, pick your friends carefully and look out for number 1. Our parents normally had pretty good ideas. Anyway, save the world man if that is your intention. Good luck you are going to need it.

Determined:

Both Republicans and Democrats are irrelevant to the political interests of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats represent the political interests of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States; never have, never will.

The Republicans represent the 10% minority American aristocracy of the United States and the Democrats represent the 20% minority Professional Class of the United States in the middle between the 10% minority American aristocracy and the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States.

WE THE PEOPLE, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States, must focus and concentrate our attention upon getting political representation for our own class and culture, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States, the Working and Poor Class and Culture, that is NOT being represented by either political party, Democrat or Republican, and is not represented in either house of Congress of the United States or by the Presidency.

The 70% COMMON POPULATION must be united by the fact that the COMMON POPULATION is a 70% MAJORITY POPULATION of the United States that is being denied political representation in the government of the United States and is economically and politically oppressed and tyrannized by the American aristocracy, the Professional Class, and the government of the United States.

The 70% COMMON POPULATION, the Working and Poor Class and Culture, must unite against its common enemies, the American aristocracy, the Professional Class and the government of the United States that have been and will continue to oppress, suppress, and tyrannize the COMMON POPULATION in pursuit of their own economic and political agenda, and have been doing so since before the Revolutionary War to the present time.

We, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, are a separate and distinct class and culture apart from the American aristocracy and the Professional Class. We, the COMMON POPULATION, must in solidarity with our own 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION represent our own best economic and political interests and refrain from being drawn in as supporters for classes, cultures and U.S. government interests that are not the interests of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION.

Neither the Democratic Party nor the Republican Party represent the economic and political interests of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States.

If the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States as a class and culture wants to be involved with the Democratic Party, the COMMON POPULATION must take over and control the Democratic Party as proprietors of, for and by the COMMON POPULATION apart from the interests of the Professional Class. The COMMON POPULATION must then use the Democratic Party as an instrument of its own class and culture to represent the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION. Otherwise, any element of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION that supports the Democratic Party is engaging in ludicrous economic and political endeavor that is harmful to the interests of their own class and culture, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the Working and Poor Class and Culture.

So, I must cast a vote. Which one is for me, I could care less about you, but for me..........I will vote the R since there is no other party that is for me. The dems take from me, so that leaves them out.

You know, a great man once said,
"Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

Call me old fashioned, but I think he's right, and one of the problems with politics today is the culture of self interest which pervades every decision. Like the Petreas report...first used to buy time, now used as a propaganda tool.

What happened to politics as a way to help people, to serve your common man?
I don't think it's dead...but good people need to stand up for our fellow Americans.

I see the Republican party as the party of self-interest, of greed, and of repression.
They consistently want to cut spending on the poorest people in society, cut taxes on the super-rich, and deny the right to privacy, the right of reproductive freedom, and the right of homosexuals to enjoy the same protections as other couples.

The Republicans take from you, it just doesn't come from your pocketbook, and may be more important than money.

JKAR:

You are right about the Republicans, but the Democrats are toadies for the Republican Party and as such are no better choice than the Republican.

When you have two parties, the Republican Party representative of the American aristocracy, and the Democratic Party that are toadies for the American aristocracy, where is the political choice? As was once said in a popular commercial, "Where's the BEEF?"

We need better choices than to vote for the American aristocracy, the Republican Party choice, or toadies for the American aristocracy, the Democratic Party choice.

Myth of American Freedom

The myth of American freedom is a made up political myth of cultural design originated by an American aristocracy of slavers who sold their own children into slavery along with the common white population, negros and native American Indians. An American aristocracy that descended from "shit eating canabals" who, rather than work to obtain their own food and sustenance by way of their own efforts in colonial America, became jealous of the native people, who were agriculturally proficient and as a result, the native people were not hungry. Out of jealosy, avarice and envy the colonial forefathers of the American aristocracy killed the native people, robbed them of their food, their resources and their land, and with white slave labor from Britain and black slave labor from Africa built a nation, the United States, on the native Americans' dead bones out of the resources and land of the dead and dying native people of North America; a nation, the United States, that to this day keeps the descendants of the native people of North America suppressed and oppressed in concentration camps and under control by military occupation.

The myth of American freedom is a trope. A trope that in the beginning meant and still means freedom for all of us, the American aristocracy and the Professional Class toadies that run the businesses of the American aristocracy, NOT freedom for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States. Freedom is a trope much like another trope, "WE THE PEOPLE", that also means "WE THE AMERICAN ARISTOCRACY" that was not inclusive of white slaves, black slaves, native people and the common population during the origin of the United States and is not inclusive of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States at the present time, the 21st Century.

Why does the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION allow such insufferable and inaccurate misrepresentations of American history and made up American mythology to be inculcated into their children by the public school system in the United States, to lead the children of the COMMON POPULATION to the false conclusion that they are "free and equal" to the American aristocracy and Professional Class toadies, when in fact the COMMON POPULATION were not "free and equal" during or after the time of the Revolutionary War against Britain, were not "free and equal" during and after the founding of the United States, and are not "free and equal" at the present time in the United States?

The COMMON POPULATION must begin to read and understand their own history in the United States. A good place to start is "A Peoples History of the United States" by Howard Zinn, which should be required reading in all public schools in the United States.

The 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION must, with new found understanding of their own historical oppression, suppression and tyranny in the United States, stand up as a class and culture, the Working and Poor Class and Culture, as the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States and demand economic and political equality and be willing to shed blood to wrest equality for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION away from the American aristocracy and the Professional Class toadies for the American aristocracy that deny life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness with freedom and justice for all of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION in any sense other than as a meaningless trope that is as hollow as the American dream.

Enough is enough. It is time for a change. It is time for real democracy for America for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION and an end to democracy as a meaningless trope for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION that benefits ONLY the American aristocracy and their Professional Class toadies that is as hollow as the American dream.

Jkar

You just made my case. But you are partially correct. The government is supposed to do for the good of the majority of the population but they don't.

So if the government is not going to do it, which they haven't since I started working at 15, you have to stand up for yourself. I put my faith in No one except my wife and myself, and that has worked quite well for me thank you very much. I do not give you, any member of my relations, the state of the federal government my problems. I solve them my way. If I can't solve them I eat the loss and move on. If it means having to take a loan to pay off something that is a total financial loss, then that is what I do. I, me, moi, want no hand outs from no one. If you don't like my opinion, fine don't read anything else I print. No one is forcing you.

But I do highly disagree with you about taxes. If the dems didn't have such a strong view of raising taxes all the time, they may get my vote on an election.

I was asked earlier how I pay for police fire etc. I live 30 miles from the nearest town when I am in the states. It has only 800 people. I am the policeman of my property and my home. We have a volunteer fire dept that everyone in my area are members off. It takes everyone because since the population is low, not all can respond at certain times.

As a policeman of my home, my home is guarded by a Rottweiler and a 357 Magnum, and 12 gauge. Trespassers are reported to the Sheriffs dept and or border patrol. so, that is managing my life. I am well stocked up with certain items that I feel is necessary because our nation is going down the tubes not by taxes, or wars, but by the general hatred of the two parties that THEY have created. I am looking out for number one.

Hey Thomas G

Ain't seen you on here in a while. Hope you and your family are well. Take care

BUGSBUNNY,WHO PAYS THE SERIFF? WHO BUYS THE FIRE TRUCKS AND EQUIPMENT? YOU ALL PICH IN FOR THAT? DO YOU HAVE ROADS ?HOW ABOUT BRIDGES?THIS IS NOT THE WILD WEST,WHERE THE LAW DEPENDS ON WHO HAS MORE GUNS,THIS IS THE REAL WORLD.

Economic and Political Change

Both economic and political change in societies is effected from either the TOP or the BOTTOM, never from the middle.

In the United States the TOP is the 10% minority population of the American aristocracy, represented politically by the REPUBLICAN PARTY, the BOTTOM is the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the Working and Poor Class and Culture, NOT REPRESENTED AT ALL by a political party in the government of the United States; and the so called "middle class" is the 20% minority population of professional class toadies for the American aristocracy that administer the businesses of the American aristocracy and run the U.S. government for the American aristocracy that are politically represented by the DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Political change for the better for the COMMON POPULATION does not come from Democratic Party toadies that serve the American aristocracy, their function is to serve whoever is in power, and at present the American aristocracy is in economic and political power in the United States. The servile toadies of the Democratic Party administer government and change for their masters, the American aristocracy; this was the case with the Perioeci in Greece, and this has been and will continue to be the case from the past through the present and into the future.

The 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the Working and Poor Class and Culture, must not look to servile economic and political toadies of the Democratic Party that serve the American aristocracy, and that administer both the government and the Democratic Party for the American aristocracy, for economic and political change that is of benefit to the COMMON POPULATION; beneficial change for the COMMON POPULATION under these circumstances is NOT going to happen, beneficial change under these circumstances has NOT happened in the past, beneficial change under these circumstances will NOT happen in the present and beneficial change under these circumstances will NOT happen in the future.

Economic and political change will come ONLY from either the TOP 10% of the population of the United States, the American aristocracy, as has been the case of economic and political change for the worse for the COMMON POPULATION since the time of Reagan. Or, economic and political change will come for the better from the BOTTOM, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States, as was the case during the time of Franklin D. Roosevelt.

The COMMON POPULATION of the United States is approaching a time where they, like the native nationalities, the American Indians, are being made poor and homeless beggars in their own country, the United States, and the COMMON POPULATION must make a choice either to depend upon servile toadies of the American aristocracy, the Democratic Party, professional class servants of the American aristocracy that both control and administer the Democratic Party or, whether the COMMON POPULATION will take its own economic and political best interest and destiny into its own hands and kick the servile professional toadies for the American aristocracy out of both the Democratic Party and the U.S. government, and take economic and political control for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION.

Economic and political change ONLY comes from either the TOP or the BOTTOM. Economic and political change from the TOP, the American aristocracy, has come since the time of Reagan to the present, and will continue into the future if economic and political change for the better does not come from the BOTTOM, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States.

It is time for economic and political change in the United States. It is time for economic and political control of both the Democratic Party and the U.S. government by the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the Working and Poor Class and Culture.

WE THE PEOPLE, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the Working and Poor Class and Culture, of the United States MUST make economic and political change happen for the COMMON POPULATION of the United States; if we, the COMMON POPULATION, do not, no one else will!!!!!!!

In the past the COMMON POPULATION has relied upon servile Democratic Party toadies of the American aristocracy to represent the interests of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States in the government of the United States; this has not worked, this will not work and this must END NOW!!!!!!!

The COMMON POPULATION of the United States must take control of its own economic and political destiny, the destiny of the Democratic Party and the destiny of the United States; the time is NOW to start a continual effort and work tirelessly in a MOVEMENT toward this end until the COMMON POPULATION is in control of its own economic and political destiny and the destiny of both the Democratic Party and the United States government.

The above post is a ThomasG post.

Economic and Political Change

Both economic and political change in societies is effected from either the TOP or the BOTTOM, never from the middle.

In the United States the TOP is the 10% minority population of the American aristocracy, represented politically by the REPUBLICAN PARTY, the BOTTOM is the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the Working and Poor Class and Culture, NOT REPRESENTED AT ALL by a political party in the government of the United States; and the so called "middle class" is the 20% minority population of professional class toadies for the American aristocracy that administer the businesses of the American aristocracy and run the U.S. government for the American aristocracy that are politically represented by the DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Political change for the better for the COMMON POPULATION does not come from Democratic Party toadies that serve the American aristocracy, their function is to serve whoever is in power, and at present the American aristocracy is in economic and political power in the United States. The servile toadies of the Democratic Party administer government and change for their masters, the American aristocracy; this was the case with the Perioeci in Greece, and this has been and will continue to be the case from the past through the present and into the future.

The 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the Working and Poor Class and Culture, must not look to servile economic and political toadies of the Democratic Party that serve the American aristocracy, and that administer both the government and the Democratic Party for the American aristocracy, for economic and political change that is of benefit to the COMMON POPULATION; beneficial change for the COMMON POPULATION under these circumstances is NOT going to happen, beneficial change under these circumstances has NOT happened in the past, beneficial change under these circumstances will NOT happen in the present and beneficial change under these circumstances will NOT happen in the future.

Economic and political change will come ONLY from either the TOP 10% of the population of the United States, the American aristocracy, as has been the case of economic and political change for the worse for the COMMON POPULATION since the time of Reagan. Or, economic and political change will come for the better from the BOTTOM, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States, as was the case during the time of Franklin D. Roosevelt.

The COMMON POPULATION of the United States is approaching a time where they, like the native nationalities, the American Indians, are being made poor and homeless beggars in their own country, the United States, and the COMMON POPULATION must make a choice either to depend upon servile toadies of the American aristocracy, the Democratic Party, professional class servants of the American aristocracy that both control and administer the Democratic Party or, whether the COMMON POPULATION will take its own economic and political best interest and destiny into its own hands and kick the servile professional toadies for the American aristocracy out of both the Democratic Party and the U.S. government, and take economic and political control for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION.

Economic and political change ONLY comes from either the TOP or the BOTTOM. Economic and political change from the TOP, the American aristocracy, has come since the time of Reagan to the present, and will continue into the future if economic and political change for the better does not come from the BOTTOM, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States.

It is time for economic and political change in the United States. It is time for economic and political control of both the Democratic Party and the U.S. government by the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the Working and Poor Class and Culture.

WE THE PEOPLE, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the Working and Poor Class and Culture, of the United States MUST make economic and political change happen for the COMMON POPULATION of the United States; if we, the COMMON POPULATION, do not, no one else will!!!!!!!

In the past the COMMON POPULATION has relied upon servile Democratic Party toadies of the American aristocracy to represent the interests of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States in the government of the United States; this has not worked, this will not work and this must END NOW!!!!!!!

The COMMON POPULATION of the United States must take control of its own economic and political destiny, the destiny of the Democratic Party and the destiny of the United States; the time is NOW to start a continual effort and work tirelessly in a MOVEMENT toward this end until the COMMON POPULATION is in control of its own economic and political destiny and the destiny of both the Democratic Party and the United States government.

Apparently General Petraeus values his opinions, and not choosing to be used as a toadie, has made and given his assessments to the White House accomplishing his reporting mission; and should the President want opinions other than General Petraeus opinions, then the White House will have to make their own assessments, and write their own report.

If the DLC Congress was not a bunch of toadies for the White House, the Congress would be highly interested in what General Petraeus has decided, since General Petraeus promised to tell the Congress the truth. If General Petraeus is honorable, and we 1st must expect honor, then the Congress will get an honest assessment. There is NO HONOR in the BUSH White House, it has been proven time and time again.

I would like to hear General Petraeus' report from General Petraeus, not the White House. Of course, if General Petraeus doesn't say what the BUSH administration wants him to say, he stands to lose his rank and be court martialled, which is too costly, so General Petraeus, being honorable, will probably choose to remain mute, reporting the truth as he sees it only to his commander, President George W. Bush.

For the White House to be choosing to make their own report, General Petraeus' report was not what the BUSH administration wanted to hear.

bugsbunny:

Since you were 15, many laws have been changed to make it more difficult for one to stand up for oneself at 15 without being gathered up on by the police. One of the new laws is that one can't drive a car until one is 18 other than to school or church between the hours of 5AM and 11PM without a 21 yr. old licensed driver in the car, which makes it difficult for one to hold an after school job at 15.

Right Wing government likes to divide families where individual family members have no family support on which to rely, as apparently has been your case, separation works well for the Right Wing, but families need to stick together and support one another in their endeavors for the best interest of the entire family. I am glad you were able to survive, survival is not as easy today, which is not to say that your survival was easy, just that it would be much harder today.

Talking about handouts, the general population has never received the amount of handouts the Right Wing corporations just take for themselves. Are you for corporate welfare? Corporate welfare is the problem in the United States, NOT whether or not some poor person is going to get help with food, rent or medical. What the poor people get is only a drop in the bucket to what the corporations take from the people.

REPUBLICANS are in power. Taxes are high, high and getting higher with the REPUBLICANS in power, who refund taxes only to the mega-wealthy. You are tooting a broken horn, because it is the REPUBLICANS, the Right Wing, that keeps all the resources of a country for themselves and the Democrats, the Left Wing, that distributes a means for the people, all the people, to have resources and be able to earn a living for theirselves.

When you were 15 there were Democrats in charge of the government to give you a chance. I think you do not know your right from your left, or you would be thanking Democrats, because no Right Winger or Republican Lite cares whether you make it or not, if you are a part of the general population, the common population that have to work for a living, YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEIRS. Republican Lites and REPUBLICANS take care of their own, and their own is not any working person who is not their stoogie suck up toadie.

i think the president should feel the power of the democratic congress! enouph is enouph and i personally am ready support whomever in washington that will not be afraid and go the distance and impeach the VP and president so we can start showing the rest of the world that we are not with this presidents program! in short, we need to save our reputation!

The Middle Class are "toadies" for American Aristocracy

The toadies of the professional class "in the middle" toady up to the masses when the COMMON POPULATION is in power and the toadies of the professional class "in the middle" toadie up to the capitalists when the American aristocracy is in power. Toadies of the professional class "in the middle" toady up to which ever side is in power, but toadies of the professional class "in the middle" represent ONLY themselves as a class and culture, and will not fight for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States, or anything else other than their own economic and political interests as a class and culture.

Toadies of the professional class "in the middle" herald themselves as a "new class" that consider themselves better than the COMMON POPULATION that evolved from the COMMON POPULATION and have a "fear of falling" back into the COMMON POPULATION, as expressed in detail by Barbara Ehrenreich in her book, "Fear of Falling".

Democracy in the United States today is NOT WORKING because the Democratic Party and the United States government has been taken over by duopolistic interests of the professional "middle class" and the American aristocracy; and the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION has been excluded from both politics and participation in the government of the United States.

The professional middle class toadies that lead and control the Democratic Party out of a fear of falling back into the COMMON POPULATION, rather than join in common cause with the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States, toady up to the American aristocracy because the American aristocracy is in power, but when the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the masses of the United States, become sufficiently aware of their oppression, suppression and tyranny by the American aristocracy and their middle class toadies, and force the American aristocracy from power, the toadies of the professional middle class that lead and control the Democratic Party will toady up to the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States in the same way that they do now with the American aristocracy.

The toadies of the professional middle class that lead and control the Democratic Party will not fight for anything, their strategy in politics and government is to toady up to which ever side is in power and thereby control the levers and instruments of power for the best economic and political interests of the professional middle class, so that they can secure their 20% minority political position in the middle between the 10% minority of the American aristocracy and the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION without fear of falling back into the abyss of the COMMON POPULATION from which the middle class came.

The 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION must reject and not allow the COMMON POPULATION to be led by professional middle class toadies that lead and control the Democratic Party, live in their own gated communities apart from the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION and whose over riding concern above all others is their fear of falling back among and becoming a part of the masses of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION from which the middle class came.

Professional middle class toadies of the Democratic Party must be forced out of the Democratic Party and the government of the United States by the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States so that the COMMON POPULATION of the United States can take their rightful place both in the Democratic Party and the government of the United States befitting of a 70% MAJORITY POPULATION of the United States that the COMMON POPULATION is.

The 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States, the Working and Poor Class and Culture, must unite in common economic and political cause and interest against the professional middle class toadies that both lead and control the Democratic Party and their overlords of the American aristocracy, and as a 70% MAJORITY POPULATION united in the best interest of the COMMON POPULATION take back control of the Democratic Party for the COMMON POPULATION and control of the United States government for the COMMON POPULATION.

It is time for a change. It is time for Democracy For America that is inclusive of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States, rather than exclusive for the 10% minority of the American aristocracy and their slimy toady servants, the 20% minority professional middle class toadies that presently lead and control both the Democratic Party and the government of the United States.

Bugsbunny:

How do you propose to deal with the 59 TRILLION DOLLARS (principal and interest) on that 59 TRILLION DOLLARS that the REPUBLICANS, who lowered your direct taxes, committed you and every other man, woman and child in the United States to pay as indirect taxes? It seems to me, that moderate direct taxes of which you complain were exchanged for EXTREME indirect taxes in the amount of 59 TRILLION DOLLARS together with interest, and that to my way of thinking is how the sharp operator deals with a fool. What do you think? Do you think?

bugsbunny:

You do know that Hitler was a Christian, don't you? The following religious quotes are from Adolph Hitler's book, "Mein Kampf":

"The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God's will, and actually fulfill God's will, and not let God's word be desecrated." -- Adolph Hitler "Mein Kampf" page 562

"For God's will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord's creation, the divine will. Therefore, let every man be active, each in his own denomination if you please, and let every man take it as his first and most sacred duty to oppose anyone who in his activity by word or deed steps outside the confines of his religious community and tries to butt into the other. For in Germany to attack the special characteristics of a denomination within the religious schism we already have with us, necessarily leads to a war of annihilation between the two denominations. Our conditions permit here of no comparison say with France or Spain, let alone Italy. In all three countries, for example, a fight can be preached against clericalism or Ultramontanism, without running the risk that in this endeavor the French, Spanish, or Italian people as such will fall apart. In Germany, however, this may not be done, for here it is certain that the Protestants would also participate in such a movement. And thus the resistance, which would elsewhere be carried on only by Catholics against encroachments of a political nature by their own high clergy, immediately assumes the character of an attack of Protestantism against Catholicism. What is tolerated from members of the same denomination, even when it is unjust, is at once sharply rejected at the outset, as soon as the assailant belongs to another creed. This goes so far that even men, who themselves would be perfectly willing to correct a visible abuse within their own religious community, at once change their minds and turn their resistance outward as soon as such a correction is recommended, let alone demanded, by a source not belonging to their community. They regard this as an unjustified and impermissible, nay, indecent attempt to mix in matters which do not concern the party in question. Such attempts are not pardoned even if they are justified by the higher right of the interests of the national community, since today religious sentiments still go deeper than all considerations of national and political expediency. And this is in no way changed by driving the two denominations into an embittered mutual war, but could only change if, through compatibility on both sides, the nation is given a future which by its greatness would gradually have a conciliatory effect in this province as elsewhere." -- Adolph Hitler "Mein Kampf" pages 562-563

"I do not hesitate to declare that I regard the men who today draw the folkish movement into the crisis of religious quarrels as worse enemies of my people than any international Communist. For to convert the latter is the mission of the National Socialist movement. But anyone in its own ranks who leads it away from its true mission is acting damnably. Whether consciously or unconsciously is immaterial, he is a fighter for Jewish interests. For it is to the Jewish interest today to make the folkish movement bleed to death in a religious struggle at the moment when it is beginning to become a danger for the Jew. And I expressly emphasize the words bleed to death; for only a man without historical education can imagine that with this movement today a problem can be solved which has defied centuries and great statesmen." -- Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf" page 564

"For the rest, the facts speak for themselves. The gentlemen who in 1924 suddenly discovered that the highest mission of the folkish movement was the struggle against 'Ultramontanism' did not break Ultamontanism, but tore apart the folkish movement. I must also lodge protest against any immature mind in the ranks of the folkish movement imagining that he can do what even a Bismark could not do. It will always be the highest duty of the top leadership of the National Socialist movement to offer the sharpest opposition to any attempt to drive the National Socialist movement into such struggles, and immediately to remove the propagandists of such an intention from the ranks of the movement. And, actually by autumn, 1923, we succeeded entirely in this. In the ranks of the movement, the most devout Protestant could sit beside the most devout Catholic, without coming into the slightest conflict with his religious convictions. The mighty common struggle which both carried on against the destroyer of Aryan humanity had, on the contrary, taught them mutually to respect and esteem one another. And yet, in these very years, the movement carried on the bitterest fight against the Center, though never on religious, but exclusively on national, racial, and economico-political grounds. The results spoke in our favor, just as today they testify against the know-it-alls." -- Adolph Hitler "Mein Kampf" pages 564-565

"In recent years things have sometimes gone so far that folkish circles in the God-forsaken blindness of their denominational squabbles did not even recognize the madness of their actions from the fact that atheistic Marxist newspapers suddenly, when convenient, became advocates of religious communities, and tried to compromise one or the other by bandying back and forth remarks that were sometimes really too stupid, and thus stir up the fire to the extreme." -- Adolph Hitler "Mein Kampf" page 565

"Especially with a people like the Germans, who have so often demonstrated in their history that they were capable of waging wars down to the last drop of blood for phantoms, any such battle cry will be mortally dangerous. In this way our people has always been diverted from the real practical questions of its existence. While we devoured each other in religious squabbles, the rest of the world was distributed. And while the folkish movement considers whether the Ultramontane peril is greater than the Jewish peril or vice versa, the Jew destroys the racial foundations of our existence and thus destroys our people for all time. As far as this variety of 'folkish' warriors are concerned, I can only wish the National Socialist movement and the German people with all my heart: Lord, protect them from such friends and they will settle with their enemies by themselves." -- Adolph Hitler "Mein Kampf" page 565 (prayer)

***

"No, there is only one holiest human right, and this right is at the same time the holiest obligation, to wit: to see to it that the blood is preserved pure and, by preserving the best humanity, to create the possibility of a nobler development of these beings." -- Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf" page 402

"A folkish state must therefore begin by raising marriage from the level of a continuous defilement of the race, and give it the consecration of an institution which is called upon to produce images of the Lord and not monstrosities halfway between man and ape." -- Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf" page 402

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord." -- Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf" page 65

The above religious paragraphs are from "Mein Kampf" ("My Struggle") authored by Adolph Hitler. Hitler spoke of God as Lord and Creator, "Mein Kampf" pages 402-405, Religion pages 266-269 & Gods will pages 562-563. The BUSH administration is coming against the Moslems (brown people), like Hitler came against the Jews and the imperfects-- doing the work of the Lord.

Hitler was deceived by Satan, as the Bush administration is deceived by Satan. Impeachment of the Satanic Bush administration is imperative to the health of the United States as a whole nation. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, so one has to verify one's intentions with the words of Jesus, if the works do not match the words of Jesus, then whatever is being done IS NOT THE WILL OF GOD. Jesus the Lord IS GOD.

The Vietnam War was an extension of World War II from Eisenhower who was Republican, that was passed to Kennedy, and Johnson unfortunately inherited the Viet Nam War.

You apparently are caught up in Right Wing propaganda. Can you say binary emotional rhetoric, that's what propaganda is, duh?

Binary emotional rhetoric (only 2 sides), confidence without merit and the like have been taught to the public in right wing nut churches, FOX and the Pentagon channels. You must be one of the ones that bought the right wing nut's propaganda, otherwise you wouldn't be so confused. The wars the United States are involved in are parts of the right wing's New World Order scheme to take over the world. Real Democrats have learned not to listen to any of the Republican's "Pinky and the Brain" schemes and you should as well.

The above post is to bugsbunny:

Martha, cant you guys quit deleting me off here so we can have a sane discussion. Practicing the Bill of rights I see with your form of censorship
Anyway you have got to argu better than you do. Letting the fight so we can buy the oil from the winner is just not a very good method for you but is for me.

Because I thought we were trying to ween ourselves from foreign oil. Contradicting yourselves with that one aren't you?

Also, you people that know nothing about oil, we love you guys. Let me clue you in to a few things. Middle east oil is cheap and US oil is expensive. There is a difference in the two oils

Martha

The comment about Mein Kampf and christianity insults me. You know why? because again you did not listen to me earlier. I am an athiest

Sorry Leftist party ex wing my comment was too Pieceman. but you all sort contradict each other. One says we are living with hatred for others, yet you do the same because it is a different group.

Take Leftis wing, totally lost in his theory. Can't be consistent. You can be a Dem and own a gun. You can be a Rep and be an athiest. There all types in this world. We are all made from a different mold. There are very few things that seperate individuals and usually it is only one or two things. I believe all persons are responsible for their own actions. Some people are always looking for another reason why, while others look for their letter at the name of their title such as R or D. That does mean something. There is good with all persons. It is sort of like food. You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of them all of the time

roughneck:

And your point? You babble. Sounds to me like REPUBLICAN rabble babble?

To ThomasG:

Do you think it is impossible for a rich man/aristocrat in your terminology to put the interests of others above his own?
A rich man could, through altruistic motives, vote to raise taxes on the rich to support disadvantaged members of society.
Rich does not automatically equal selfish/protective of the "upper" class.

To roughneck:
#1 read the Bill of Rights, you'll notice that it only applies to government, not private political party online forums.

#2
"I believe all persons are responsible for their own actions. Some people are always looking for another reason why, while others look for their letter at the name of their title such as R or D. That does mean something. There is good with all persons. It is sort of like food. You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of them all of the time"
-Roughneck

Are you meaning to say that political policies are merely a matter of preference?

If so, I disagree strongly. It is clear that some policies are wrong/bad/inadvisable/evil on a universal level. For example, a policy that the US Government should shoot anyone who talks in the street would be all of the above.
Most policy is not that blatantly undesirable, but it is more than "preference" as if for food that creates policy differences. It is difference in world view, and the nature of right and wrong that is at stake.

To me, it is not morally right for a person on the street to starve to death while a person in the penthouse above him cracks open a multi-thousand dollar bottle of wine with his dinner.

Some seem to disagree, claiming that the person on the street could have worked harder and made the money not to starve.

I consider this to be a pretty heartless proposition. Especially coming from a party that prides itself on being "Pro-Life" and "Pro-values" and in some circles "Christian."

The simple point is that without equal opportunity, to say one person who fails at making a living is morally wrong and should be punished for his actions is irresponsible to the extreme.

JKR,I AGREE WITH YOU 100%.THE RIGHT WING CLAIMS TO "PROTECT INNOCENT LIFE" BUT HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH DROPPING BOMBS ON INNOCENT PEOPLE DURING WAR.THEY TALK ABOUT "EQUAL OPPORTUNITY " BUT THE FIRST THING THEY DO IS TRY TO CUT PROGRAMS THAT GIVE THE POOR AND UNDERPRIVLEDGED AN OPPORTUNITY TO BETTER THEMSELVES.THEY CLAIM MORALITY ONLY WHEN ITS CONVENIENT.