September 30, 2007

Photo--The Schlesinger Library, Radcliffe College

“The most important struggle in the history of the church is that of woman for liberty of thought and the right to give that thought to the world.”
-- Matilda Joslyn Gage (1826-1898), American suffragist, feminist, author. Woman, Church and State, 1893. See Women Without Superstition.

Good Sunday Morning, Dems!

Sunday mornin' lineup:

MTP: ex-Pres. Bill Clinton (D); roundtable of WaPo's Dan Balz, MSNBC's Pat Buchanan, NBC's David Gregory, and PBS' Tavis Smiley.

FTN: Gov. Bill Richardson (D-NM); roundtable of author Lawrence Wright, AEI's Danielle Pletka, and WaPo's Robin Wright.

This Week: Newt Gingrich; Bill Clinton; roundtable of ex-Pentagon spokesperson Torie Clarke, Dem strategist Donna Brazile, and George Will.

FNS: Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY); Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS); Des Moines Register's David Yepsen and Boston Globe's James Pindell.

Late Edition: Sen. Kit Bond (R-MO); New Yorker's Seymour Hersh; Iraqi FM Hoshyar Zebari; roundtable with CNN's Elaine Quijano, CNN's Juan Carlos Lopez, and CNN's Bill Schneider

Check this out. John Perkins worked for the World Bank starting about 1969.

"JOHN PERKINS: Well, really, I think it’s fair to say that since World War II, we economic hit men have managed to create the world's first truly global empire, and we've done it primarily without the military, unlike other empires in history. We've done it through economics very subtly."

"We work many different ways, but perhaps the most common one is that we will identify a third world country that has resources our corporations covet, such as oil, and then we arrange a huge loan to that country from the World Bank or one of its sister organizations. The money never actually goes to the country. It goes instead to US corporations, who build big infrastructure projects -- power grids, industrial parks, harbors, highways -- things that benefit a few very rich people but do not reach the poor at all. The poor aren’t connected to the power grids. They don’t have the skills to get jobs in industrial parks. But they and the whole country are left holding this huge debt, and it’s such a big bet that the country can't possibly repay it. So at some point in time, we economic hit men go back to the country and say, “Look, you know, you owe us a lot of money. You can't pay your debt, so you’ve got to give us a pound of flesh.”

John Perkins on "The Secret History of the American Empire: Economic Hit Men, Jackals, and the Truth about Global Corruption"

No wonder bush and cheney appointed cronies to the world bank and I can see now why chavez hates our guts. This world bank group goes in and makes a deal with the countries under the guise of creating democracy but it only benefits only the rich scabs. Poor people are thrown to the curb. This is what bush and cheney are fine tuning around the world in our name.

Morning Cyn and GOTV.

I doubt that my mom would have anything to do with a gay goat loveing abortionist.

Posted by Dr_Elroy_McBurd on September 29, 2007 at 08:13 PM

Looks like somebody's 'mom' didn't get to have a "choice", or there would be one less redneck, white trash in this world. A certain German wouldn't have had a chance to get all those free things from his bride's parents to take their daughter off their hands. Isn't there a nazi training camp you should be at?

I love this one, peeps. Let Bush and the Republicans vote No over and over on it:

A Stinker for the GOP

Republican Congresswoman Heather Wilson of New Mexico worries that people might get the wrong impression when her party votes down children's health care

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1666288,00.html

good morning friends and neighbors. how about dem mets!

over at kos this morning darksyde has some interesting data for us to ponder as we get ready to pound the pelicans into the astroturf ( sorry for the football metaphor but it is the last sunday in september ):

CBS -- In the new poll, the public gives the Democrats a big edge over the Republicans on handling health care issues. Asked which party they believe will best improve the health care system, 62 percent said the Democrats, while just 19 percent said the Republicans.

NYT 2 March 2007 --A majority of Americans say the federal government should guarantee health insurance to every American, especially children, and are willing to pay higher taxes to do it, according to the latest New York Times/CBS News poll. ... access to affordable health care is at the top of the public's domestic agenda, ranked far more important than immigration, cutting taxes or promoting traditional values.

John, it's stories like that which you posted above that make me want to bang my head against the wall. How do we stop this kind of corruption?

Another quote from the story:

JOHN PERKINS: Well, the Group of Eight are the wealthiest countries in the world, and basically they run the world. And the leader is the United States, and it’s actually the corporations within these companies -- countries, excuse me -- that run it. It’s not the governments, because, after all, the governments serve at the pleasure of the corporations. In our own country, we know that the next two final presidential candidates, Republican and Democrat alike, are going to each have to raise something like half a billion dollars. And that’s not going to come from me and you. Primarily that’s going to come from the people who own and run our big corporations. They’re totally beholden to the government. So the G8 really is this group of countries that represent the biggest multinational corporations in the world and really serve at their behest.

Don't let the Neo Cons inflate a little man in an attempt to convince Americans that they must Bomb Iran! Ahmadinejad has no power at all.

"Taking Ahmadinejad literally, as the neoconservatives do, is being disingenuous with lethal intent. It gives license to a conga line of politicians--especially Republicans running for President--to strut their stuff by jumping on Ahmadinejad and Columbia University and liberals in general. Mitt Romney runs an ad in which he brags that he denied the milquetoast reformer Khatami a police escort to Harvard University in 2006. Now there's a man! The New York Daily News, owned by neoconservative Mort Zuckerman, runs the headline the evil has landed. The cable news networks hyperventilate. Even the president of Columbia University, Lee Bollinger, feels the need to demolish Ahmadinejad--elegantly, I must say--before the speech. A giant toxic bubble overwhelms the public square.

But the neoconservative campaign to transform Ahmadinejad into Hitler or Stalin, to pretend that he has the ability to destroy the world, to make a hoo-ha over letting the little man speak, is a cynical attempt to plump for war. Ahmadinejad may be ridiculous, but Podhoretz--who recently spent 45 minutes with Bush arguing for more war--isn't very funny at all.

Ahmadinejad's appearance was a small but telling moment in the rolling overhyped crisis that is George W. Bush's so-called war on terrorism. The Iranian President's words had no practical, only symbolic, global import. He has very little real power in Iran, none over foreign policy or the nuclear program. He has no more power than his predecessor

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1666273,00.html

gregg, you cannot be a credible Yankee's fan if you keep on crossing over to the dark side. Don't make me say the "M" word.

These days, China and the other countries participating in what some have called Bretton Woods II export so much more to the U.S. than they import, they find themselves with hundreds of billions of dollars that they don't know what to do with. Up to now they've been content to recycle most of them by buying Treasury bills and other U.S. securities. The U.S. has enjoyed the low interest rates that have resulted, while China, the gulf states and Japan haven't wanted to face the consequence that by selling dollars, they would decrease the value of their remaining dollar holdings.

This is an arrangement that can't go on forever. It should unravel; that's the way of economic change and progress. But there's no plan in place to make it happen in an orderly fashion. The fear that the ensuing adjustment might be even more chaotic than in the 1970s probably explains most of the dollar's recent decline. It's not that we Americans have gotten a lot poorer. It's that we might be about to.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1666266,00.html

"As Germany and France returned to the ranks of major economic powers, and Japan began its climb to get there, the exchange rates set up after the war and adjusted only slightly afterward made no sense anymore"

Now wasn't there some idiot on here arguing about how fixing Global Warming in the US would result in total economic disaster, same as when Germany, Japan and other countries forced their corporations to fix their polluting up?????

Cyn,

I read the rest of John Perkins interview. It is disgusting what our country has been doing and is doing around the world through corporations. The corruption is alive and well in Iraq and Iran. At least ray-gun had the sense to ban assassinations. I will give him credit for that.

The whole thing does make me ashamed to be part of the human race.

Morning gregg and Pam,

cyn, what could be better than the yankees beating the mets in another subway series...well beating any team from a red state i guess would be better...

Bulk of US anti-terror grants go to Jewish organizations

Homeland Security Department hands out $24 million in grants to Jewish nonprofit organizations in major US cities

(FYI, Homeland Security Director Chertoff has dual US/Israeli citizenship. Surprise, surprise.)

More than $24 million went out Friday to mostly Jewish nonprofit organizations in major cities across the country, because the federal government considers them to be at high risk of terror attacks.

The Homeland Security Department decided which nonprofits would receive the 308 grants based on threat and risk information. Organizations in Chicago and New York were the top recipients.

The funds are to be used to increase security and screening systems and to train personnel in terror awareness and preparedness. The grants went to medical centers, schools, temples and synagogues. One went to an Islamic organization in Miami.

That Jewish organizations received the bulk of the funding does not mean there are new or heightened threats against Jewish Americans, the department said.

"One faith group is not necessarily at greater risk than another," department spokesman Russ Knocke said. "Risk is often circumstantial, and it is constantly evolving."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3454448,00.html

not only do we need to drive these criminal bastards from office, we need to drive them into the sea and let them swim to saudi arabia or drown:

Bush's EPA Is Pursuing Fewer Polluters
Probes and Prosecutions Have Declined Sharply

By John Solomon and Juliet Eilperin
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, September 30, 2007; Page A01

The Environmental Protection Agency's pursuit of criminal cases against polluters has dropped off sharply during the Bush administration, with the number of prosecutions, new investigations and total convictions all down by more than a third, according to Justice Department and EPA data.

The number of civil lawsuits filed against defendants who refuse to settle environmental cases was down nearly 70 percent between fiscal years 2002 and 2006, compared with a four-year period in the late 1990s, according to those same statistics.

Critics of the agency say its flagging efforts have emboldened polluters to flout U.S. environmental laws, threatening progress in cleaning the air, protecting wildlife, eliminating hazardous materials, and countless other endeavors overseen by the EPA.

"You don't get cleanup, and you don't get deterrence," said Eric Schaeffer, who resigned as director of the EPA's Office of Civil Enforcement in 2002 to protest the administration's approach to enforcement and now heads the Environmental Integrity Project, a watchdog group. "I don't think this is a problem with agents in the field. They're capable of doing the work. They lack the political support they used to be able to count on, especially in the White House."

The slower pace of enforcement mirrors a decline in resources for pursuing environmental wrongdoing. The EPA now employs 172 investigators in its Criminal Investigation Division, below the minimum of 200 agents required by the 1990 Pollution Prosecution Act, signed by President George H.W. Bush.

The actual number of investigators available at any time is even smaller, agents said, because they sometimes are diverted to other duties, such as service on EPA Administrator Stephen L. Johnson's eight-person security detail.

robbing the future to overfeed today's pigs

I think it's important to read the rants of right-wingers because they list all of their fears and hatreds. These little nuggets of info are quite helpful in destroying their puny brained arguments in our everyday interactions. I especially like the insecurity in their manhoods that really sets them off. Just accuse a Hillary basher of being half a man for being afraid of women and they turn all red and run away! Works great in a crowded room with lots of women to laugh at them.(morons -note that I put a space after my periods just to make it easier for you to read,I know that helps your reading comprehension issues.)

Fun with Bush!

"Ahmadinejad has no power at all."

Lately I've taken to calling him "Minijab" a cross between mini-me and jib-jab, can't you see hm standing next to the evil-not-genius W?

Or sitting on his knee.

((((crickets?))))

Maybe you should post a notice "blogbenders not welcome"

Also, until a few days ago, i used the term "redneck" recklessly, too, apparently they (the original Rednecks) were on OUR side (the good guys called Democrats), fighting against the Blackwater goons of the anti-union movement in West Virginia in the 30's.

Here's another link that goes into more detail, hope I dodn't step on any blgotoes here, i will return to lurking...

JEP

JEP, don't take no response to your posts as unwelcoming. I think a lot of us are doing chores while checking in from time to time. You know, walking dogs/cats, cooking breakfast, showers, etc.

My husband saw the show you mention about "rednecks" and coal mining. He was very impressed, too.

Checked out your blog - very good. I like Edwards a lot

BBL

Sorry for the reactionary reaction, I see what you mean, this blog isn't a ten-second blog it's a two minute blog, which I willhave to get used to...

It does help keep the train of thought more on line, but forgive me for expecting a quick dialogue, I've been over at FDL lately, and it moves so fast, you can get three or four different threads going in one post, and it all jumbles together.

'scuse my impatience... and paint my face red..

JEP, no need to apologize! It's particularly quiet here on Sunday mornings.

Harpo is our resident troll. He goes by many names. I actually think he has a crush on PamB, as he is obsessed with her.

In any case, Welcome Aboard - hope you'll stick around.

litte baby harpie snuck off it's leash and out of the fenced in pen sally keeps it in while he sleeps off the huffing buzz he got sharing the bag with pUSs's mom last night ( i guess that's sharing a bag with a bag ) so he is running amok. it won't last long as sally with hear him and get up and tie it back to the tree where the dogs can continue using it as a fire hydrant....

We sit as couch potatoes in front of the TV watching "high-on-something-about-himself" types like Cris MAthews telling us all about other people out there in the world and what they are like. Then we have sessions where we are told that GW Bush is our only problem and so, once he's gone, we will be great again...just like a slumping football team coming back!

Truth is, the WORLD is leaving us behind: the totalitarian ex-Red states are worse that the worse of our traits and the civilized Western Democracies are beating us at progressive democracy by a mile. Still, Bill's political folksy BS style rules our politics in the Democrat Party and Mafioso Giuliani's style of tough bravado on the surface and corruption and weakness for cash and sex on the core in the "Jesus-Republican" Party combine to make America a banana republic that wants only one thing: IRAQ'S OIL TO "FILL-ER-UP" CHEAP OUR ENDLESS FLEET OF SUVs. So of course broken down drunks running for president can't promise you that we won't still be in Iraq by 2013-- we can't be sure we will have sucked its oil dry by then. But don't worry, by then the Communist Chinese may go before the Supreme Court and demand to be given all our East Coast and West Coast states and everything in them as payment for what we owe them. And, being a Bush-type "entreprenerial" type court, it might just give it to them.

Never have I ever seen AAmericans as so stupid and superficial, yet so drunk on their firepower that they insist that they can impose their ignorant simplistic perspective on the world. Rather than argue with you all, I'll just refer you to last Friday's BILL MOYERS JOURNAL so that you can see what kind of American WE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE chose for ourselves in November 2004 when we put Bush back into the presidency, this time for real.

BILL MOYERS JOURNAL>>>TRANSCRIPT

September 28, 2007

BILL MOYERS: Welcome to the JOURNAL.
Every week we hear of another publicly traded company being bought by a private equity firm. Some of those investment firms — like Blackstone, the Carlyle Group, and Cerebrus — have become almost as well known as the brand-name companies they've been snapping up, from Chrysler to Dunkin' Donuts to Toys R Us. But private equity firms have no real interest in toys, cars, or baked goods. What they are after is big and quick returns on their capital. To get it, they buy a company and cut the wages, pensions and health benefits of the employees who work there.

Take a look at this front page story in Sunday's NEW YORK TIMES for a glimpse of how this kind of capitalism works. Thousands of nursing homes have been bought up by private equity firms like Warburg Pincus and Carlyle. Profits were increased by reducing costs, then investors quickly resold the facilities for a big profit ?leaving and I quote- "residents at those nursing homes worse off, on average, than they were under previous owners."

Exhibit #1: Habana Health Care Center in Tampa, Florida, purchased by a group of private equity firms in 2002. "Within months, the number of clinical registered nurses at the home was half of what it had been a year earlier...budgets for nursing supplies, resident activities and other services also fell..." "When regulators visited, they found malfunctioning fire doors, unhygienic kitchens, and a resident using a leg brace that was broken..."

Basing its report on state government data, the TIMES says 15 at Habana died from what their families contend was negligent care. But when families sue, they often can't find out even who owns the nursing homes because of the complex corporate structures private equity firms have created to cover their tracks.

It's this kind of capitalism that drives John Bogle up the wall, as you're about to learn. John Bogle believes owners should be in charge — and accountable. He's known and respected world-wide as the father of index funds and the founder of The Vanguard Group, one of the largest mutual funds anywhere, with over a trillion dollars in assets.

FORTUNE magazine named him one of the four giants of the 20th century in the investment industry. TIME magazine called him one of the world's 100 most powerful and influential people. Among his six books is this one THE BATTLE FOR THE SOUL OF CAPITALISM and more recently THE LITTLE BOOK OF COMMON SENSE INVESTING. In the current issue of DAEDALUS, the Journal of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, he has a blockbuster of an essay on democracy in corporate America. You'll find it on our Web site at pbs.org. I talked with John Bogle when he was in town earlier this week.

BILL MOYERS: Thanks for joining me.

JOHN BOGLE: My pleasure.

BILL MOYERS: This story in THE NEW YORK TIMES this week. What do you think when you read a story like that?

JOHN BOGLE: Well, first, it's a national disgrace. Simply put. And there are some things that must be entrusted to government and some things that must be entrusted to private enterprise. And what we see there, at least in my judgment, is that we've taken medical care, healthcare and going from making it a profession in which the patient is the object of the game — preserving the patient "first do no harm" as Hippocrates would say or would have said and turn that into a business. And so, it's a bottom line. I've often said we're in a bottom line society. We're measuring the wrong bottom line.

BILL MOYERS: What does it say to you that the real owners of the nursing home, the private investors have created this maze of smoke and mirrors that make it virtually impossible to find out who the owners really are?

JOHN BOGLE: Well, that's so typical of much that's going on in American finance, the way we structure these financial instruments, which are stock certificates or debt instruments. But it's the same thing of the removal of your friendly, local neighborhood bank holding the mortgage and being able to work with you when you fall on hard times to some unnamed, often unknown, financial institution who couldn't care less.

BILL MOYERS: These private equity firms that own these nursing homes wouldn't even talk to THE NEW YORK TIMES. They won't talk to reporters. I mean, there's no accountability to the public.

JOHN BOGLE: There's no accountability. And it's wrong. It's fundamentally a blight on our society.

BILL MOYERS: What does it say that big private money can operate so secretly, with so little accountability, that the people who are hurt by it, the residents in the nursing home have no recourse?

JOHN BOGLE: It says something very bad about American society. And you wonder — the first question anybody would have after reading the article — how in God's name do they get away with that? Well, we have all these attorneys that are capable of devising complex instruments, and money managers who are capable of devising highly complex financial schemes. And there's kind of no one to answer to the call of duty at the end of it.

BILL MOYERS: And we're talking about some of the most powerful names in the business. I mean, these are formidable forces, right?

JOHN BOGLE: They're formidable forces. But, I'm afraid--

BILL MOYERS: Respectable citizens, right?

JOHN BOGLE: Well, I mean, I don't know about that. But, it's certainly -- it's easy to say that greed is taking — playing a part — greed has a role in a capitalistic society. But, not the dominant role and--

BILL MOYERS: What should be the dominant? What is the job of capitalism?

JOHN BOGLE: Well, ultimately, the job of capitalism is to serve the consumer. Serve the citizenry. You're allowed to make a profit for that. But, you've got to provide good products and services at fair prices. And that's the long term, that's what businesses do in the long term. The businesses that have endured in America have done that and done that successfully.

But, in the short term, there's all these financial machinations in which people can get very rich in a very short period of time by creating highly complex financial instruments, providing services that can be cut back easily as in the hospital article, not measuring up to basically their duty.

We all know that in professions, the idea has been service to the client before service to self. That's what a profession is. That's what medicine was. That's what accountancy was. That's what attorneys used to be. That's what trusteeship used to be inside the mutual fund industry. But, we've moved from that to a big capital accumulation — self interest — creating wealth for the providers of these services when the providers of these services are in fact subtracting value from society. So, it doesn't work.

BILL MOYERS: So, the private equity nursing homes have added to their wealth. But, they've subtracted from society the care for people who need it.

JOHN BOGLE: That is exactly correct. Not good.

BILL MOYERS: THE WALL STREET JOURNAL editorial page celebrates what it called the animal spirits of business. And as if that's the heart of capitalism. What do you think about that?

JOHN BOGLE: Well, I like the animal spirits of business. I mean Lord Keynes told us about animal spirits. And it comes out of a part of his work that says, "You know, all the precise numbers and the perspectives mean nothing. What determines the future of a business is its animal spirits." You know, the desire for progress, the desire to create something new. That's all good. But, it's gotten misshapen. Badly--

BILL MOYERS: How so?

JOHN BOGLE: --misshapen.

BILL MOYERS: How so?

JOHN BOGLE: Well, it's gotten misshapen because the financial side of the economy is dominating the productive side of the economy

BILL MOYERS: What do you mean?

JOHN BOGLE: Well, let me say it very simply. The rewards of the growth in our economy comes from corporate, largely - from corporations who are a very important measure, from corporations that are providing goods and services at a fair price innovating and bringing in new technology — providing a higher quality of life for our society and they make money doing it. I mean, and the returns in business in the long run are 100 percent the dividends a corporation pays and the rate at which its earnings grow.

That still exists. But, it's been overwhelmed by a financial economy. The financial economy, which is the way you package all these ways of financing corporations, more and more complex, more and more expensive. The financial sector of our economy is the largest profit-making sector in America. Our financial services companies make more money than our energy companies — no mean profitable business in this day and age. Plus, our healthcare companies. They make almost twice as much as our technology companies, twice as much as our manufacturing companies. We've become a financial economy which has overwhelmed the productive economy to the detriment of investors and the detriment ultimately of our society.

BILL MOYERS: By the financial sector, you mean?

JOHN BOGLE: Banks, money managers, insurance companies, certainly annuity providers. They're all subtracting value from the economy. They have to subtract. To be clear on this now — I don't want to overstate it. To be clear on this, they have to subtract some value. But, the question is--

BILL MOYERS: What do you mean they subtract some value?

JOHN BOGLE: In other words, — you've go to pay somebody something to provide a service. It's just gotten totally out of hand. My estimate is that the financial sector takes $560 billion a year out of society. Five hundred and sixty billion.

BILL MOYERS: Where does it go?

JOHN BOGLE: It goes into the pockets of hedge fund managers, mutual fund managers, bankers, insurance companies. Let me give you this just one little example. If you didn't make a $129 million last year — I'm presuming that you didn't. You don't rank among the highest paid 25 hedge fund managers. A $129 million doesn't get you into the upper echelon.

BILL MOYERS: And on the way here this morning, I saw a story that now a $1 billion will not get you in the FORTUNE 400. A $1 billion!

JOHN BOGLE: Well, I spend a lot of time thinking about that. I mean, you kind of asked the question, which I've asked in some of my work. What is enough here? And the society is out of control. I mean, in THE BATTLE FOR THE SOUL OF CAPITALISM, I talk about the frightening similarities between the American economy in America, our nation, at the beginning of the 21st century and Rome all those centuries ago around the 4th century.

BILL MOYERS: What are the comparisons?

JOHN BOGLE: We have an idea that we are the world's value creator and leader. And I'm talking not just about economic value, but, we like to think of America as having the best values of integrity and citizenship in the world. We're getting a little bit too much self interested. We have our own bread and circuses. And they're a little different than the bread and circuses they had in Rome. But, we surely have our circuses whether it's sports teams or casino gambling or the lottery in the states. And we see this not just in our economy, in our financial system. This very short-term focus on everything. You see it, sadly, in our government.

Everybody knows social security is going to run into crisis. We can't run these federal deficits forever. But, everybody looks out two years and says, "Will I be elected two years from now or a year and a half from now?" And, the short term focus ultimately betrays the very values that we have come to be used to in this great nation of ours.

BILL MOYERS: You said the other day to someone that we think we can fight the war in Iraq without paying for it.

JOHN BOGLE: Well, we borrow the money to fight the Iraq War by some estimates and they're not absurd estimates is running now towards a $1 trillion. We could be doing what the British empire did. We could be bankrupting ourselves in the long run. And--

BILL MOYERS: You see us as an empire?

JOHN BOGLE: Well, of course it's an empire. We reach all over the world. We thought of ourselves in many, many respects as the policemen of the world. God knows we know we're the policemen of the Middle East. And there are those say, even from Alan Greenspan on up or down, that oil is the root of that. I mean, these are great societal questions. Protecting oil, which is in turn polluting the atmosphere.

We have problems as a society. And we don't have to surrender to them. But, we have to have a little introspection about where we are in America today. We've go to think through these things. We've got to develop a political system that is not driven by money. I mean, these are societal problems for us that don't have any easy answers.

But you don't have to be an economist to know that a great deal of or a minimum in our economy is coming from borrowed money. People are spending at a higher rate than they're earning, and we're starting to pay a price for that now. Particularly in the mortgage side. But, eventually, that could easily spread and people won't be able to do that anymore. You can't keep spending money you don't have. It gets a lot of it, you know, and it wasn't that many years ago — maybe a couple of generations ago — that if you wanted something, you saved for it. And when you completed saving for it, you bought it. Imagine that. And that wasn't so bad. But, now, we know that we can have the instant gratification and pay for it with interest payments, of course, over time, which is not an unfair way to do it. We're going to pay a big price for the excessive debt we've accumulated in this society both in the public side and the private side.

And it's no secret that this lack of savings in our economy — just about zero — is putting us at the mercy of foreign countries. China owns — I don't know the exact number — but, let me say about 25 percent of our federal debt. China does. What happens when they start to buy our corporations with all those extra dollars they've got there? I mean, I think that's very-- these problems are long term, are very much worrisome and very much intractable.

BILL MOYERS: Your book is called THE SOUL OF CAPITALISM. Tell me what you mean by the soul of capitalism.

JOHN BOGLE: Well, I try in the book a little definition from Thomas Aquinas about the core of being — he's talking about the human soul, of course — but, the core of being,the elements that give you meaning, the values that you have-- the whole kind of wrap up of what makes a human being a human being.

And that happens in a much more, you know, a much less profound way in a corporation. There is in a good corporation and in capitalism a core of being of providing goods and services, at raising the standard living. And it's done a very good job at that. I don't want to demean that. You know, we went from the beginning of time, to around 1800, — the way people lived barely changed at all. And since 1800, the Industrial Revolution, and capitalism around that time has taken us to standards of living that are just — that would have been unimaginable to anybody of that day. We have all the perquisites and ease and freedom and safety of modern life. And so I salute capitalism for doing that. It's just we've taken it too far. Today's capitalists are different from yesterday's capitalists-

BILL MOYERS: How so? What's the big difference?

JOHN BOGLE: Well, I think much more they're operating on their own. Instead of for the interest of whose money has been entrusted to them. It's an element — it's what we call a bottom-line society, again. But I think it's the wrong bottom line. I want to come back to the difference between the financial system and the productive system. The productive system adds to the value of our economy. And, by and large, the financial system subtracts. And, yet, it's growing and growing and growing. And this short term thing where short term orientation in which trading pieces of paper is regarded as a social value. It is not a social value. Some of it has to happen, don't mistake me.

BILL MOYERS: Right.

JOHN BOGLE: But not as much as we have.

BILL MOYERS: What does it say to you that people seem so indifferent to the fact that one tenth of one percent of the population owns most of the wealth in this country?

JOHN BOGLE: Well, in the long run, I believe it's unsustainable. You know, this is not going to be, you know, a country like France, say, at the time of before the French Revolution. You know, the lords of France, the kings had probably the same kind of distribution of wealth we had today come by through long generations. Their own castles. We have those castles in America now. But it says to me that, in this society, it's not sustainable. There will be an outcry.

Even Allen Greenspan says in his book he's worried, new book-- he's worried about this division in the society. He's worried about dissatisfaction. He's worried about violence in our society. You can only have so much of an advantage to those at the top of the pyramid, and so much disadvantage that's at the bottom of the pyramid, before you start to get some very difficult things going on.

BILL MOYERS: This seems to me to be your great concern, that this self correcting faculty that is built into both democracy and capitalism is in jeopardy?

JOHN BOGLE: Actually, I think it's fair to say it's in jeopardy. But there's one sense that it's not in jeopardy. And that is, ultimately, the system will correct. The bigger the boom, I fear, the bigger the bust. In other words, you pay the price. It's not a self sustaining system at this kind of a level.

BILL MOYERS: Do we need new rules?

JOHN BOGLE: One thing is, I believe, to have a federal standard of fiduciary duty for money managers. They've come from eight percent ownership of American business to 74 percent ownership of American business. It's staggering, over unbelievable change. Without any rules as to how they're supposed to behave. We have state laws of proven investing and fiduciary duty and things of that nature. But they don't seem to be working. And our founding fathers actually thought about having a federal statute-- a federal corporate chartering statute. I think we probably need one because if some of the states step up and say improve their governance provisions, corporations will move to another state. So the state system I don't think can prevail.

So a federal standard of fiduciary duty which demands that our pension trustees and our mutual fund directors make sure that those pension funds and mutual funds are operated in the prime interest of those who have entrusted their money to them. And that includes responsibility for corporate governance. And it will ultimately turn to be focused more on long term investing.

When I came into this business in the 1950's, it was a business focused on the wisdom of long term investing. We changed in that period to a business that is focused on the folly of short term speculation. And think about this for a minute. If you're a true investor holding a company for the long term, you're well aware that the value in that company is company's earnings compounded over time, developing new products and services, developing efficiencies-- trying to size up the proper corporate strategy, you know, making the company more valuable. But, in the folly of short term speculation, you're just thinking will that stock be worth more or less six months from now or a year from now?

Give you a very specific example. In the first 15 years I was in this business, the average mutual fund held the average stock for seven years. Call that long term investing. Now, the average mutual fund holds the average stock for one year. That's short term speculation. So, if you're a speculator, you don't care much about ownership interest. You don't care so much about corporate governance. Why vote a proxy, for example, if you'll not even be holding a stock in three months?

The other part of it is,and this is really makes it a very difficult problem to solve. And that is a little about of — I guess it's Pogo — we have met the enemy and they are us. These mutual fund companies-- these management companies are now owned largely by corporate America. Or international corporations — Deutsche Bank — AXA, big international companies who have bought their way into the US financial system, which is-- don't mean to demean that. But, they own these public corporations-- giant public corporations like insurance companies, big banks-- foreign insurance companies and banks own 41 of the 50 largest mutual fund managers.

Now, what is the job of a corporation when they buy into a mutual fund management company? It's to earn a return on the capital they invest in that company. It's not to earn a return on the capital of the investors who invested with that mutual fund. Now, in fairness, they want to earn as much money as they can for the fund shareholders. But, not at their own expense.

What we've done is have you know, what I call in the book, a pathological mutation of capitalism from that old traditional owners' capitalism to a new form of capitalism, which is manager's capitalism. The evidence is quite compelling that today corporations are run in a very important way to maximize the returns of its managers at the expense of its stockholders.

BILL MOYERS: Its CEOs.

JOHN BOGLE: Its CEOs, well, the upper level of five or six top officers. And they get enormous amounts of pay for actually doing very little. I'm a businessman. Listen, we all-- we chief executives get an awful lot of credit that we don't deserve. Real work in companies is done by the people who are getting themselves together and doing the hard work of making companies grow--

BILL MOYERS: And, yet, these--

JOHN BOGLE: every day.

BILL MOYERS: These are the people who most often get laid off, right?

JOHN BOGLE: They get laid off. And, of course, the ironic part of that is they often get laid off — used to be called downsizing. But, of course, in today's America, it's called right sizing. They get laid off. That reduces expenses. That increases earnings and that means the CEO gets more.

Just think about the country for a minute. For an agricultural economy, 95 percent, 98 percent agricultural when this country came into existence. And even by 1850, half agricultural. Now it's about, they moved from agricultural economy, to a manufacturing economy, to a service economy. And now to a financial service economy. And the financial service economy is what troubles me. Because it's diverting resources from the investors to the capitalists. To the entrepreneurs. To Wall Street. To the investment bankers. The hedge fund managers. To mutual fund managers. And that is a negative to our societal values.

Where agriculture and manufacturing and services, I mean, I'm perfectly willing to give a high value, for example, to art and poetry and literature. They add value to society. It may not be easy to measure it in a society that measures too much of what's not important. And not enough of what is important. As the sign in Einstein's office says-- "There are some things that count that can't be counted. And some things that can be counted that don't count."

BILL MOYERS: John Bogle, thank you for joining me.

JOHN BOGLE: My pleasure.

(NOTE: You can read the articles mentioned at this link.)

BILL MOYERS: Let's take a look now at the clip file of stories we have been collecting on the cost and conduct of the war in Iraq. You heard John Bogle talk about how those costs could soar beyond a trillion dollars.

By one estimate, we are now spending half a million dollars on the war every minute. And now President Bush is asking Congress for another $200 billion dollars for next year. That would make 2008 the most expensive year of the war yet.

It's not just the cost that boggles the mind; it's the fact that no one in Washington, from the President on down, really knows where that money is going.

The government is required by law to have outside auditors review the federal books. But this month, when the Associated Press took its own look at the audits of 15 executive departments, it found that the Defense Department and the Department of Homeland Security hadn't passed their audits and didn't even meet basic accounting requirements. They were given "Disclaimers" - that is their fiscal records are so disorganized and inconsistent, they can't be fully assessed. By these departments' own admission, this makes them vulnerable to waste and fraud. For example, the Defense Department, with a $460 billion budget this fiscal year alone - is easy pickin's for every Jesse James wannabe with an empty sack to fill.

Rep. Jim Saxton (R-NJ): There are 78 criminal investigations and 20 indictments, we're told related to contract fraud in theater. The 20 indictments are a combination of civilian and military personnel.

Rep. John Kline (R-MN): So I am doubly appalled, triply, quadruply appalled at this day at the horrific conduct of commissioned officers, at a clear breakdown in leadership.

BILL MOYERS: Members of the House Armed Services Committee could hardly believe their ears last week when they learned that $6 billion dollars worth of military contracts are under criminal review. Another $88 billion dollars in contracts — that's right: $88 billion dollars — are also being audited for fraud. Here are some excerpts from that hearing.

REP. CAROL SHEA-PORTER (D-NH): $6 billion here, $9 billion unaccounted for, you know, I feel sorry for you all because you are here defending the indefensible and you and I know that. But Americans are asking us how? How could this have happened? And what was the climate for this?

Shay Assad, Dept. of Defense Procurement & Acquisition Policy: We've not done a very good job of educating our leadership, our officers who are on the ground doing contracting, on what fraud indicators are, what they should be looking for.

Rep. Phil Gingrey (R-GA): Some of the witnesses have said that what, you know, we need more ethics training. Ethics training for a full colonel in the US army to me is like asking a Catholic bishop to re-read the Baltimore Catechism. I'm just absolutely appalled.

Rep. Ike Skelton (D-MO): Why is it that the United States military has this problem as opposed to large multinational corporations, Mr. Gimble?

Thomas Gimble, Dept. of Defense Principal Deputy Inspector General: Mr. Chairman that's a great question. And if I could give you a really definitive answer, I'd be - I think I'd be in pretty good shape.

BILL MOYERS: There are 630 private companies under U.S. government contract in Iraq. Their employees do everything from construction to guarding diplomats. You've surely heard of Blackwater — it's just one of many mercenary companies operating there.

Jeremy Scahill, Investigative Journalist: Blackwater works for the State Department, there are scores of contractors who work for the US military. The investigative journalist Jeremy Scahill wrote a best-selling book on private contractors and was asked to share his findings at a meeting of the Senate Democratic Policy Committee.

Jeremy Scahill, Investigative Journalist: I sat in a defense authorization hearing this past May and watched as representative after representative asked officials from the military and the federal government how many contractors do we have? What are they doing? How much are they being paid? What nations are they drawn from? The answers were I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think it's ridiculous I have representatives calling me asking me for government documents. It should be the other way around.

The Senators also heard from whistleblowers about contractor fraud. Robert Isakson, a former FBI investigator of white collar crime, went to Iraq with his disaster recovery firm. He won a subcontract with an American company called Custer Battles.

Robert Isakson: Former Contractor in Iraq: They asked me three times to assist in preparing fake invoices and leases that they could then submit to the government. The first time I told them no. The second time I told them hell no. The third time, after telling them no, I told them they were all going to prison. As a result of my continued refusals to cooperate in their fraud they pointed machine guns at us and seized our identifications.

Later I learned that this company had handed in $10 million in fake invoices for approximately $3 million dollars of work.

BILL MOYERS: Isakson sued Custer Battles for fraud and to have that $10 million restored to the United States. He won in civil court.

But a federal judge overturned the decision, ruling that the, now defunct, Coalition Provisional Authority, which hired the firm was not part of the U.S. government — so Isakson couldn't sue them under U.S. law. He's still fighting it.

Sen. Byron L. Dorgan (D-ND): The question of accountability is important. It appears to me from all that I know there is precious little accountability with respect to contractors in Iraq and it seems to me that leads to frightening problems.

BILL MOYERS: As Inspector General of the State Department, Howard Krongard — known as "Cookie" — was supposed to be the watchdog guarding against corruption there. But he's a political appointee with strong partisan loyalties, and now seven people on his staff have accused him not only of failing to do his job but of actively blocking their efforts to do theirs. The reason? Quote: "To protect the State Department and the White House from political embarrassment."

Chairman Henry Waxman of the key House Oversight Committee is asking "Cookie" to answer those allegations in person. Waxman sent the Inspector General a l4-page letter with a litany of investigations that may have been blocked. Cookie, says the Chairman, has some explaining to do.

But so does his boss, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. Waxman claims she is holding back documents on Blackwater as well as what the State Department knows about corruption in Iraq.

Stay tuned: Chairman Waxman has scheduled hearings on both Blackwater and corruption in the Iraqi government next week.

(NOTE: You can read the articles mentioned at this link.)

BILL MOYERS: We turn now to one of the most neglected consequences of the war in Iraq, the humanitarian crisis that's been unfolding since the American invasion 4 1/2 years ago. It's almost beyond comprehension, two million inter-refugees inside the country, a million dispossessed in Baghdad alone, their numbers rising stupendously during the surge. Another two million have fled to other countries, over 1 1/2 million to Syria, another million or so to Lebanon and to Jordan which has now closed its borders. Among the refugees are Iraqis escaping reprisals for cooperating with Americans. The Bush Administration has allowed fewer than 1,000 of them into the U.S.

This week the Senate passed the Iraqi Refugee Crisis Act, calling on the President to do more. We're seeing a human tragedy unfold with consequences that can only compound in the months to come as the power vacuum in Iraq spreads. Joining me to talk about this is George Packer. He's a staff writer for The New Yorker who's acclaimed for his articles, essays and reviews on foreign affairs. In 2005 his book, The Assassin's Gate, America in Iraq was named by the New York Times as one of the ten best of the year. This week he's more justly proud of being the father of a brand new baby, Charlie, obviously also one of the ten best of the year. And National Public Radio's, Deborah Amos, who's been a colleague of mine in public broadcasting since 1977, 30 years now. Deb Amos is one of the few American journalists to cover this story. She's just back from Syria, Lebanon and Jordan, her fifth trip to the region to report on the refugees. Welcome to you both.

DEBORAH AMOS:: Thank you.

GEORGE PACKER: Thank you.

BILL MOYERS: Give me a human face to these people. Who are they?

DEBORAH AMOS:: So many of them, Bill, are the doctors, the professors, the architects, the intellectuals, the poets. There are the poor who have left. But this community that's now in Damascus and Amman and increasingly going to Lebanon is the middle class. These are the technocrats, the kind of people that you need if you want to rebuild a country. And this is the demographics that has left Baghdad.

BILL MOYERS: What is life like for them now? What-- what is-- we think of refugees in the Middle East as Palestinian refugees living in those awful camps. What-- what do these people face?

GEORGE PACKER: As Deb says, they have these -- what you might call middle class concerns. They're not so much worried about food although I think as their savings dwindle they will. They worry about their children's education, health care and the fact that they really can't work and so they have - they are a desperate population but they're not the kind of refugees we think of coming out of Darfur or Somalia. They are very much a middle class population and the great problem for them is they all left Iraq with some money and they're running out of money, and a few of them are actually going back to Iraq because they don't have enough to spare.

BILL MOYERS: I think I heard you report not long ago that in Damascus there's something like 20 to 30 people, refugees, living in the same room?

DEBORAH AMOS:: Many people do that. 20 people living in one apartment.

BILL MOYERS: For how long?

DEBORAH AMOS:: They do it for months. And it's not because they're all broke. It's because they have no idea how long they have to hold out. And when you run out of money the choices are very stark. The-- the incidents of child prostitution in Damascus is rising dramatically. There's a-- there's a belt of clubs above Damascus. And this is where some Iraqi families are prostituting their daughters. That's how dire--

BILL MOYERS: For money?

DEBORAH AMOS:: For money. That is how dire it is becoming in Damascus. Or you go home. There was a young man who was a sculptor. And he was targeted in Baghdad. He came to Damascus. He ran out of money. He went home last week and he's dead.

BILL MOYERS: George, why didn't the administration anticipate this?

GEORGE PACKER: I think it's a piece-- with everything that's gone wrong with the war, for political reasons. To acknowledge that there was a huge refugee crisis in the region, to acknowledge that Iraqis who work with Americans are a uniquely endangered population in Iraq-- I mean, they are as hounded and helpless as European Jews in the 1940's -- would have been to acknowledge that the war was going badly. That it was creating more pain than it was alleviating, that the picture of steady, slow progress was false. And so the administration simply chose to ignore this crisis. I mean, for the first year or two of the refugee crisis our policy was, "It's not happening." More recently our policy has been we're committing some funds, rather small compared to the need. But-- our real objective is to create a safe and stable Iraq to which these refugees can then return. In other words, it's temporary. Well, it's not temporary. When you talk to Iraqis now compared to at the beginning of the war they no longer say in six months things will get better as they used to or in a year things will get better. They now say in two decades. In other words, for an Iraqi, not really in my lifetime. It will be my children that see a better Iraq. That means they're making decisions now about what they have to do with their families in order to ride out a 20 year horror. And that means they're not going back to Iraq.

BILL MOYERS: What's the political consequences of what George just described of a long migration of refugees who can not go home, who are running out of money, who are spilling over into the borders of the other countries. Taking-- I assume they're taking their warring, sectarian passions with them, are they not?

DEBORAH AMOS:: The passions, not necessarily their actions. They know very well that if kidnapping and assassinations begin in Damascus or Amman that those governments will kick the entire populations out. So, a lot of it is by remote control. A family has someone threatened back in Baghdad. But I think the larger point is this, Bill. We-- no refugee situation is like another. However, you can make some comparisons to the Palestinian refugee situation 50 years ago to the Afghan one more recently. And, these populations are easily recruited. It's not that the leadership of radical movements necessarily comes from the refugee population. But it's a great recruiting ground for children who have been out of school for-- in some cases now, three years.

BILL MOYERS: Wow.

DEBORAH AMOS:: And so it-- people in the region are starting to understand that this population could potentially be destabilizing. As time goes on, if there is no policy to address the situation they find themselves in. And so far there hasn't been one. Only one presidential contender in this country, Barack Obama, has even mentioned the crisis of the refugees. The others have not so far.

BILL MOYERS: In the Democratic Presidential debate on Wednesday night the leading Democrats, none of them would commit to taking American troops out of Iraq in the first terms of their administration, if they should win. That would mean American troops in Iraq until at least 2013. What-- what are the political implications of that with-- with this huge migration of-- of refugees?

GEORGE PACKER: I think that it just says if we're rather helpless now with 160,000, the highest number we've had in-- over the course of the war, troops in Iraq to prevent this outflow of people, when we're down to 50,000, we're going to be all the more unable to check this-- this-- I think, potentially destabilizing flow of people around the region. We will be in Iraq to do very specific missions. We will be there for counterterrorism. We will be there to train the Iraqi army. And we will be there to protect our own forces. We will not be there to secure the population which means civil war will continue to burn, maybe even in-- in, you know, a-- a bloodier way than now. And Iraqis will continue to leave the country. And they certainly won't be able to go back. So, I think we may well have American forces simply watching helplessly as Iraqis leave. Now, there have been some proposals to reconfigure our forces along the borders in-- to act, in a sense, as a net to prevent refugees from leaving.

BILL MOYERS: Border patrol like along the Texas-Mexican border.

GEORGE PACKER: Something like that and also to prevent irregular forces, jihadis and others from crossing into Iraq. I have some operational questions about that. How could our brigades, scattered in the desert, really stop people from crossing. And both morally and strategically is that a position we want to be in sending refugees back into the cities or creating giant camps policed by American soldiers which also will be, as all refugee camps are, recruiting grounds for extremists.

DEBORAH AMOS:: Although, it hardly matters. The Jordanian border is all but closed. And in September the Syrian government imposed a visa restriction on all Iraqis coming into the country. Up until that time, 30,000 crossed every month. Because they could-- it was the last border open. Syria has had enough with 1.5 million. So now, the policy is you have to go to the Syrian embassy in Baghdad. The problem is that Syrian embassy is one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in Baghdad so you can't go. So, that border is essentially closed.

BILL MOYERS: What are the governments you've been talking to-- government officials you've been talking to in Jordan-- Lebanon and Syria, what are-- what are they saying about this in terms of the long run?

DEBORAH AMOS:: The Syrians say, "It costs us an extra $2 billion a year." Because they subsidize bread, gasoline, health care. And this huge Iraqi population is putting such pressure on their own social makeup. The Jordanians say it costs them an extra billion dollars a year. And the international response has been astonishingly weak. The Saudis gave-- a couple of tons of dates, dates-- to this population that needs schools and health care. And we have contributed some money but not nearly enough. And so both of these countries are at their wits' end. Why is there no response to what they see-- what they know is a regional crisis outside of Iraq.

GEORGE PACKER: There's also a lot of bad history in that region between Iraqis and their neighbors. And what Iraqi refugees tell me is the idea of Arab brotherhood which the Syrian regime is based on is wearing very thin. And they don't feel that they're being treated at all as kinsmen or fellow Arabs or as brothers. And帩o, and above all, the Iraqis who have worked with the Americans are treated as traitors. And-- and so, they are increasingly unwelcome. Shiah in Jordan are absolutely not welcome. Sectarianism plays a part in this especially, I think, in Jordan. And-- and so there-- there's a sense in which these Iraqis don't really have anywhere to go that wants them.

BILL MOYERS: How do you keep-- how do you distance yourself from this dilemma, this suffering? How do you come back here and be human?

DEBORAH AMOS:: It's very, very tough. And I've covered refugees for most of my career. And this is a different-- this is a different population. Because you can't help thinking that it could be me. You know, I've met journalists just like me who have the same level of education just like me. And they have been forced to take their savings. I don't know what I would do. So, it's not even empathy. You don't have to imagine. It is so stark and clear to you when you talk to people who speak English as well as you do that there's no translation problem. You get it. And I find it's exhausting when I come home. Because I actually get to go back to work.

GEORGE PACKER: I came back from my most recent trip to Iraq in the region having spent a lot of time talking to Iraqis like these with a feeling of shame that I had never had before as a journalist including covering this war. Because it's a war we brought to Iraq. We bear tremendous responsibility for what's happened in that country. And our official response whether at the embassy in Baghdad or the State Department in Washington or the White House has been so paltry, so indifferent that to hear them tell their stories, very individual stories about how they got a death threat and their supervisor said, "You can take a month off. But there's really not much more we can do for you." It-- my eyes were burning after these interviews. I've never quite felt that way.

BILL MOYERS: How many trips-- you've made five just to cover the refugees recently-- how many trips have you made since the war started?

DEBORAH AMOS:: I had four or five a year since the war started.

BILL MOYERS: So, do you think you'll be going back indefinitely?

DEBORAH AMOS:: Well, what you see-- I know-- I keep saying I cover Iraq. I just don't ever go there. But to do Lebanon, Jordan and Syria is essentially to cover Iraq. Because the issues that are roiling Iraq are the same issues that now are playing out. Everything is hooked to everything else. You know, the American standoff with Iran gets played out in Syria and in Lebanon. And so those issues will certainly keep me going back not just for the refugees but for this confrontational politics that grows out of Iraq and now has spread through the entire region. So, I will have plenty of work to do.

BILL MOYERS: So, you the United States is grafted to the Middle East for a long time to come?

GEORGE PACKER: I think so. And I don't think our population quite understands that. Because our leaders haven't leveled with them as has been the case throughout the war. And so I'm afraid we're going to feel like we're stuck there pointlessly when in fact what we need is a coherent policy that does ask what are our interests in-- over the next five or ten years? How can we secure them? Basically policy questions that right now nobody's asking on either side.

BILL MOYERS: Given what both of you have said and what you see and what you've been reporting, what's the political discussion? What should Washington be talking about right now?

DEBORAH AMOS:: I think they have to talk about a long term policy for these displaced Iraqis. Even with borders closed you still have in two countries bordering Iraq about ten percent of the population are now Iraqis. I mean, think about that in terms of American numbers, that, you know-- I don't know-- 20 million? It's really hard to make those comparisons. It's huge. They will have an effect on the policies, on the social fabric of Iraq's neighbors. None of it for the good without some sort of policy that addresses their needs -- educational, health -- and their desperation.

BILL MOYERS: The administration-- the President invaded Iraq for many reasons, overthrow Saddam Hussein, weapons of mass destruction, al Qaeda, all of that. But arching over everything was the neo-conservative conviction that we were going to see the birth pains of democracy in the region you two cover. Are what you're talking about the birth pains of democracy?

GEORGE PACKER: No, we're talking about the return of real politic. This is the final, I think, defeat of the Bush Project for the Middle East. We're talking about the only way that we can begin to secure our interests is by cutting deals with regimes that we don't like. And I don't just--

BILL MOYERS: Dictators in Egypt, dictators in Syria, dictators in--Saudi Arabia?

GEORGE PACKER: We're now talking about a big arms sale to Saudi Arabia because we're worried about Iranian influence. Saudi Arabia was the problem four years ago. We-- we invaded Iraq, according to Paul Wolfowitz, in part to undercut the power of Wahabism and Saudi influence in the region. Now we're back to James Baker's foreign policy, which is essentially you make deals with people you don't like in order to create stability. We're back to hoping we can have stability because we don't have democracy.

BILL MOYERS: Look at the places that-- that are, you know, quote, in this democracy experiment, Iraq, Gaza and Lebanon. Now, the people who run the security states in Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia say to their people, "That's what you want? That's what you want?" And they say of course no. What's the therefore to this?

DEBORAH AMOS:: And the therefore is this democratization policy has been a failure.

GEORGE PACKER: And the irony is the only country in the Middle East that has a genuine grass roots democratic and even secular movement is our number one enemy, Iran. That country has a-- a movement every bit as promising as what we saw in Eastern Europe and in other countries. And-- and yet we're almost at war with Iran. And I think if we do go to war with Iran it will set that movement back 30 years. So, it seems like the therefore is countries have to find their own way to democracy. We can help. But we can't force it.

BILL MOYERS: The drums have been beating this week for military action against Iran, beating in this country. Do you hear the same rhythm that you heard in the build up to the war in Iraq?

DEBORAH AMOS:: I hear it in the region. I've just come back. And so I'm not as tuned to the debate here. Because I hear it as a reverberation. But I can assure you that there is a rising anxiety level in the places I've just come back from, Beirut, Damascus, Amman, about the possibility of a war. And it's back. I mean, I've been going regularly. And it receded for a while. And I feel like people are much more anxious than they were just a few months ago.

GEORGE PACKER: What I fear is it will happen overnight. We will wake up one morning and discover that we have begun bombing targets inside Iran. And so there won't be a chance for all of the-- questions about war with Iran. What do you do afterward? You know, what-- what-- what do we do to protect our-- our forces in Iraq and Afghanistan from Iranian reprisals? What about Israel? Those questions have to be talked about now. But unlike Iraq this could happen very quickly. And it will be too late once those questions start getting asked.

BILL MOYERS: George Packer, Deb Amos, on that-- happy note-- thank you very much for being with me on The Journal.

DEBORAH AMOS:: Thank you.

GEORGE PACKER: Pleasure.

BILL MOYERS: A final note on the war. You may remember our report last month based on the remarkably candid op-ed piece written for the New York Times by seven of our soldiers in Iraq. Putting their careers on the line, they took issue with the optimistic rhetoric of officials in Washington on the progress of the occupation. "We are militarily superior," they wrote, "but our successes are offset by failures elsewhere." And they went on to describe those failures one by one. "In the end," the soldiers said, "we need to recognize that our presence may have released Iraqis from the grip of a tyrant, but that it has also robbed them of their self-respect. They will soon realize that the best way to regain dignity is to call us what we are -- an army of occupation -- and force our withdrawal."

But then the seven men pledged themselves anew to their duty: "As committed soldiers,?they wrote, "we will see this mission through."

As they were preparing the op-ed, one of the men -- Sgt. Jeremy Murphy -- was shot in the head by a sniper. He is now in a rehab facility in Southern California, trying to recover from a severe traumatic brain injury.

Since then, two of the other co-authors of the piece -- and five comrades -- were killed when their military vehicle turned over in Baghdad.

Yance Tell Gray was 26 -- and wore his sergeant stripes proudly on his sleeve, next to the Bronze Star on his chest, and the oak leaf clusters, the Army Good conduct Medal, the Humanitarian Service Medal, and the badges indicating his service as a combat infantryman, Ranger, and paratrooper. He had won just about every honor a soldier could win, for doing just about everything a solder can do.

His wife Jessica said, he was "an amazing husband and an adoring father (who) couldn't wait to come home and be a dad to his daughter." He didn't make it. He was nearing the end of four tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan when he was killed. This week he was buried with full military honors at Arlington National Cemetery, having given all a soldier can give.

Omar Mora enlisted in the Army because he wanted to do something in response to 9/11. He made sergeant in three years, and was shipped to Iraq. A roadside bomb damaged his hearing in April and he was sent home for two weeks. He returned to combat only to have a comrade die in his arms. Sgt. Mora had just received his citizenship papers when he and Sgt. Gray were killed. His service was held at St. Mary of the Miraculous Medal Church where he had taught Sunday School. He came to America from Ecuador with his mother when he was two years old.

I'm sure many of you've been watching Ken Burns' moving account this week of The War -- Ken's notable series recollecting the personal stories of the sacrifice made by an earlier generation of Americans caught up in the catclysm of the Second World War. But any war is The War for the soldiers who die in it -- the war they will not live to remember, or recount for their grandchildren, or revisit in the movies. For sergeants Omar Mora and Yance Gray, who fought bravely and bravely told us the truth, The War is over. I'm Bill Moyers.

Well, Well, So General BetrayUs is NOW telling the truth. Too bad he wasn't under oath when he sat there and LIED his ass off !

Petraeus Admits to Rise in Iraq Violence
The Los Angeles Times

The top US commander, back from his trip to Washington, says Sunni Arab militants have carried out a "Ramadan surge." But he notes that the level of attacks remains lower than a year ago.
Baghdad - Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, acknowledged today that violence had increased since Sunni Arab militants declared an offensive during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/093007Z.shtml

And MN Thomas, aka Harpo.

Any Mother that sends her kid out into the world with a Constipated stiff name like Thomas, shows a definite lack of affection or caring about her kid ! Trust me as a Mother, I understand that. So I would not bring up Mothers in any circumstances. Not even the fact that your's seems to have a thing for gregg ! hahaha

good read:

What does that mean? This: 9/11 has made us stupid. I honor, and weep for, all those murdered on that day. But our reaction to 9/11 — mine included — has knocked America completely out of balance, and it is time to get things right again.

It is not that I thought we had new enemies that day and now I don’t. Yes, in the wake of 9/11, we need new precautions, new barriers. But we also need our old habits and sense of openness. For me, the candidate of 9/12 is the one who will not only understand who our enemies are, but who we are.

Before 9/11, the world thought America’s slogan was: “Where anything is possible for anybody.” But that is not our global brand anymore. Our government has been exporting fear, not hope: “Give me your tired, your poor and your fingerprints.”

You may think Guantánamo Bay is a prison camp in Cuba for Al Qaeda terrorists. A lot of the world thinks it’s a place we send visitors who don’t give the right answers at immigration. I will not vote for any candidate who is not committed to dismantling Guantánamo Bay and replacing it with a free field hospital for poor Cubans. Guantánamo Bay is the anti-Statue of Liberty.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/opinion/30friedman.html?_r=1&ref=opinion&oref=slogin

Here's Why the Republicans even think Gingrich played with running for Presidency!!!

"Gingrich had planned to seek pledges as part of a three-week exploration without making any formal declaration of candidacy for the Republican nomination — an approach that several Republican leaders said was legally questionable.

The decision will bolster the contention of several key Republicans that Gingrich's repeated flirtation with a presidential run was a publicity stunt designed to keep him in the news and sell his books.

These Republicans said Gingrich has a loyal following and lots of good ideas, but contended that what one called his "on-again, off-again" approach had undermined the seriousness of a potential candidacy.

Gingrich said he would need at least $30 million in pledges and that it would be very hard to say “no” if he crossed that threshold.

But his nonprofit group has raised money much more slowly than that, and key Republican leaders said they doubted Gingrich could reach that goal.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/6084.html

Just another Republican Phoney idiot !

I noticed something. Prior to Iraq, we had all kinds of claims of Weapons of Mass Destruction, yet no proof was ever presented. So even though we're sure it's a government hoax, I wanna push it a little further.

To know exactly -what- kind of missiles a country has, to even know the rate of their Nuclear development, or even know their INTENTION with such weapons would require an insider. A well-established spy. Of course blowing that info would mean he'd be in serious trouble. Under Saddam's regime, he'd be dead in moments.

Now they claim the same with Iran. Did they send the same spy to work in Iran and get that "100% accurate" info? If so, how did that spy get the info and what did he have to do to get it? Forget about "classified information", if anything is classified it is the administration's cowardice to the truth of the war!

We need to know where the networks got the info, where the White House got the info, heck go as far as to pressure the CIA where -they- got the info. Something like this should not be classified heavily at all to Americans.

Son of fallen Bush aide suspected in Washington gay-bash

(via PageOneQ)--A Georgetown University sophomore, implicated in a gay-bashing by a fellow student, has ties to the Bush Administration, RAW STORY has learned.

19-year-old Philip Anderton Cooney, pictured here in the spring of 2005, is the son of fallen Bush aide and American Petroleum Institute oil lobbyist Phil Cooney

too funny. Why Bush is just like Ahmadinejad !

Our Chimp-In-Chief !!!!

"David Letterman on Thursday announced a segment on "George Bush vs. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad," promising also that each joke "will be punctuated with a ridiculous sound effect."

Along with celebrity gags and jokes playing off the Iranian president's popular image as a bloodthirsty tyrant, some of the more interesting comparisons were:

"Ahmadinejad: Member of the Islamic Society of Engineers. Bush: Member of the Chuck Norris fan club."

"Ahmadinejad: Speaks in broken, hard-to-understand English. Bush: Speaks in broken, hard-to-understand English."

"Ahmadinejad: Holocaust denier. Bush: Global warning denier."

And finally, "Ahmadinejad: Underlings refer to him as President of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Bush: Underlings refer to him as 'President Numbnuts

http://rawstory.com//news/2007/Letterman_Show_George_W._Bush_vs_0928.html

Good morning, all.

The talking heads on MTP were particularly dense today. They hit on the truth and then walked away from it.

One of the pundits mentioned that all the candidates don't want to discuss issues in depth anymore or even want to do interviews with them unless they can control the message. Now I wonder why that is?

For decades the Right has said the press will not let them fully express their views, so they created Faux News and will not go elsewhere

The Left watched the free press embed themselves into the Bush administration, so it turned to other medias such as blogs, new interactive cable/satillite channels, the internet, and grassroot politics.

The MSM has lost all it's credibility with both ends of the spectrum. But more alarming than that is it's rejection by the Center. The American people now acknowledge to themselves that they were the victims of The Big Lie...of Free Trade and Iraq.

And they know who delivered the message and blame that messenger maybe even more than the source. There is a populist movement brewing and it transcends the money and resources of the multinationals who think they have it all in the bag including control of the message.

But life is not therory. People do not act predictably when under stress. There is a backlash coming for any politician who has allied themselves with the money and power of those that perpetrated the Big Lie.

All the TV ads and organization in the world cannot take away from the hypocricy. People are pissed and they are looking for someone to punish. Whether its in the primaries or in the general, somebody is going to be hit hard.

The anger now being directed at the media will be leveled at those candidates who are playing games hoping to create their own Big Lie. Only those who are being honest about their positions and what it will mean to the average American will be rewarded.

Woe be it to the candidate that thinks they can control the voter the way they control their campaigns. The American public is not in a docile mood.

They are sick of being manipulated by the media, the multinationals, the neocons...and the politicians that are part of that system.

Sandy,

And Chris Matthews show just had what to me is the most important reason why we must not allow Republicans to win!

He asked his panel if Democrats will be able to win by stressing how the future of Lifetime appointments for Judges will influence their rights.

Most think unless there is a landmark case pending before the court at the time, that most Americans do not pay attention to this fact !

We Must keep harping that with the age of the left leaning judges, we MUST make sure we do not let a Republican get in and turn this country back 100 years.

Keep harping on this with people you talk to Dems! This is SOOOOO important to women, Minorities, etc.

So, the I of newt is removed from the pernicious republican presidential political pot?

Maybe that old curse won't work anymore without it...

He's not the only Republican wannabe who's always going to be a wannabe, even Romney's spending a lot more of his own money that he planned...

And McCain can't buy a dime, let alone get one donated to him.

I have never trusted money as a guage of a good populist's support, but as for these Republican con men, it is all they have ever had, and now it is drying up...

As for minijab and bush, they both pander to their lowest base, Bush with is "crusade" posturing and minijab with his "no holocause" rhetoric, so I put them on the same page of hypocritical opportunists who prefer to foment hatefulness to gain support from hateful people, rather than speak the truth.

well, well, let's hope this is right. Bush understands his Iran pushing for bombing is a failure? That all his spinning, rhetoric on Iranian weapons into Iraq , etc are just more lies! Why would any smart person believe them anyways?

"The shift in targeting reflects three developments. First, the President and his senior advisers have concluded that their campaign to convince the American public that Iran poses an imminent nuclear threat has failed (unlike a similar campaign before the Iraq war), and that as a result there is not enough popular support for a major bombing campaign. The second development is that the White House has come to terms, in private, with the general consensus of the American intelligence community that Iran is at least five years away from obtaining a bomb. And, finally, there has been a growing recognition in Washington and throughout the Middle East that Iran is emerging as the geopolitical winner of the war in Iraq.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/08/071008fa_fact_hersh

Read it and weep, Repugs ! We will miss you like the plague, when you are gone!! LOL! :)

Leading Indicators Point Down for GOP

It is gallows humor time for Republicans in Congress, where one lawmaker jokes that "there's talk about us going the way of the Whigs," the 19th century political party long extinct.

The Democrats will continue to be the majority party in the House and Senate and Hillary Clinton will make history by being the first woman president" in 2008, predicts Rep. Ray LaHood, one of three Illinois Republicans to announce his retirement so far.

What makes LaHood's prediction stand out is his willingness to say it publicly.

Numerous other Republican lawmakers, aides and strategists said Democrats appear headed for two more years in power in Congress, but they declined to say so on the record.

Polls, too, chart the decline of the Republicans.

A recent Gallup poll reported that 59 percent of those surveyed have an unfavorable impression of the Republican Party. By a margin of 47-42 percent, they said Democrats will do a better job of protecting against terrorism and military threats. Asked which party would better maintain prosperity, the majority preferred the Democrats, 54-34.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070929/republican-woes/

Pam,

I think we need to keep harping about health care, Iraqi profiteering/mercenaries, and outsourcing. While the Supreme Court is probably more important in the long run, only our base moves on that issue.

We need talk to the concerned to the American people and particularly the Independents.

Barack Obama: Ready to Lead? http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=612

So if you now believe in Bush's Global Warming stand does it make you a Bush Republican or a Hollywood Fantasy Production Fan. Past productions include "Mission Accomplished", "Iraq Favorite Cowboy", "John Wayne Comes To Washington", "Bush Chronicles", "Jackson Square Promises", "Cathedral Miracle", "The New Lincoln", "Redefining America", "Blackwater Secrets", and of course "Global Warming Intelligence, The Bush Version."

It seems Bush got jealous of Gore's Oscar, now he needs his own "Made for Fiction" award to Gore's . best documentary feature. An award for truth and consequences the greatest fabricator of promises in U.S. history.

There are a few areas where I see a clear opportunity for movement by this party. They concern our nation's approach to conflict resolution, our approach to military spending, and our understanding of what constitutes a terrorist entity.

In our attempts to resolve the onging conflict inside Iraq we have made two assumptions that have not stood up to the test of time. First, we assumed that the former Iraqi government was interested and capable of doing significant damage to the United States and its interests in the Middle East. Second, we assumed that our intervention would immediately improve the lives of Iraqis, who would embrace us and our presense.

As we now know, Iraq was neither capable of of doing significant damage to us here in the United States, nor were they actively seeking any means by which to do that. There was an attempt to thwart our own attempts to downgrade their defense structure, but this in and of itself does not consitute an active threat to our very existence. It is instead a last ditch attempt, of our former ally, to maintain an arsenal that it believed was necessary to prevent invasion and to protect itself from neighboring threats.

As for improving the lives of Iraqis, well we obviously have not done that. Certainly many Americans out there are determined to put a positive spin on events there, but that spin will never erase the fact that Iraq has been torn into several factions, Shiite, Sunni, and Kurd being only one explanation of that division. What we have in fact is a civil conflict with various groups vying for power. Thus, your average citizen is left not rebuilding their lives following the downfall of a brutal dictator but instead fighting for their very survival in the aftermath of the conflict that removed him from power. Too many have not survived and those who have certainly can not be said to live better lives, given the conditions under which they are forced to live.

Our approach to military spending through all this has been deplorable. Rather than deciding to grant additional funding based upon our ability to meet goals and obligations, we have instead been convinced to simply keep throwing money at the problem because no other acceptable solution had been proposed. We question this approach when it comes to any other form of spending but for some reason, this most heavily funded of all interests, continues without similar checks and balances.

It is a mistake to keep throwing money at our defense concerns, as though that in itself constitutes a solution. Instead, having the best defense structure in the world requires that we be capable of accurately predicting outcomes, to such an extent that we are able to figure cost to within some small fraction of the actual expenses. This is something that we require of every other profession and I for one can not see any reason not to require the same of this most well funded one. Perhaps that in itself would encourage more accurate intelligence analyses by those individuals wishing to progress.

As for what constitutes a terrorist threat, that is a matter of record. For decades our military has trained to defend against terrorist attack. Having participated in that process from 1991 to 2001 I can confidently say that the term "terrorist" was never meant to describe a national government. Instead, this term was one used by military units and government organizations who trained to defend against rouge groups who pose a specific threat unlike that posed by any national defense structure.

I consider this oversight one of the most damaging mistakes made by officials in deciding how we should respond to nations who we feel are a threat. Why, you might ask? Because our approach to terrorist organizations was designed to be used against groups that did not have the resources and responsibilities that any developed national government has. This may explain why we have seen results that fall significantly short of the proposed outcome.

If you have not donated this quarter to your favorite, folks, you have till Midnight tonight.

Clinton, Obama Apparently Tied in Donations

With less than 30 hours before the third quarter deadline, the top Democratic presidential candidates appear to be running neck-and-neck in the money race. An aide for Illinois Sen. Barack Obama estimates that his campaign will have received between $18 million and $19 million in contributions in the third fiscal quarter of the year, which ends Sunday at midnight.

That is well below the $32.9 million the campaign raised in the second quarter, which ended June 30. But it appears to match the projection of his main Democratic rival, New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, whose campaign estimated earlier in the week that it would raise between $17 million and $20 million for the quarter. Clinton raised $27 million in the previous quarter.

Thus far in the presidential race, Obama and Clinton have far outpaced the rest of the field in money raised -- with $58.9 million and $63.1 million, respectively, as of June 30. The next closest candidate at that point was former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, with $44.4 million total in contributions for his Republican campaign. Summer is traditionally a slower time for fundraising, which could explain the drop off in the latest quarter, spanning July through September.

SANDY, YOU ARE CORRECT. THE AVERAGE AMERICAN IS MORE EASILY SWAYED BY TALK OF THEIR HEALTH CARE, THIS LIE OF A WAR, CORRUPTION AND PERVERSION AMONGST THE REPUBS !

I see the sewer continues to dribble through our blog:>>>>Cactusdan>>>>Harpo Those "floaters" are hard to flush.

don't worry, salute, they will be gone in the morning. It irks them to know that what they say will be short lived and that if they look back through the archives, there is NOTHING, NADA of them in existence. We are free of them.

I can confidently say that the term "terrorist" was never meant to describe a national government. Instead, this term was one used by military units and government organizations who trained to defend against rouge groups who pose a specific threat unlike that posed by any national defense structure.

Marine, I, too, have said from the beginning that there can be no such thing as a War on a Thing! There is nothing concrete to be had with the word Terrorism! A fancy Frame picked upt to instill FEAR into the hearts of Americans. Unfortunetly for the neo cons, it has worn off and the American public sees it now for the farce that is is !

heading out on this beautiful day. Wonder if Fall will ever hit ! My annuals have never looked better, still running the air conditioner, and sweating.

Here's a new Motto I found that fits well here:

Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience

so ignore them peeps. they have so much experience in being idiots ! No fool like old fools!

Just so the trolls have some reference points, Move On has some left-leaners, but the prodominant mentallity is as centrist as it gets.

Just look at our own trolls, and read their Rushisms, they consider anyone left of New Gingrich to be left wing. Their "center" is somewhere between Brownback and Romney,

SO don't be surprised to read them calling the center "left" and the right "center", just think "eco-centric" and you will have amuch better perspective of their confusion.

They are the center of everything and everyone, and the entire political spectrum revolves around them, not the stark realities they are in full denial of.

Just for kicks, I have gone over to a few of the wingnut blogs, but I am never allowed to post more thanone question.

Here's one that makes them squirm. Maybe some of our trolls will have the guts to address this.

Do you agree with Karl Rove that corruption,not Iraq, is why the Republicans lost in 2006?

Id so, do you think Larry Craig's continued presence will hurt the republican presidential candidates?

That question got scrubbed toot-sweet from the Republican blog, and after than I couldn't even post...

It is one of those questions they can not answer, because Rove is their toad-god, and they know he said it, but by answering they admit their own corruption.

Lets see if any of them here can answer it intelligently, so far I have read nothing from the trollsthat suggests there is one of them who can debate on the issues, sans-ignorance and prejudice.

They have no arguments left but to conjur up another old conservative, Benedict Arnold who shared most of their anti-liberal, royalist beliefs

If these Republicans had their way, we would all still be subject to the English throne.

Benedict Arnold, indeed!

I'm a certifiable progressive, with classic liberal philosophy. And by golly, as far as all the indicators suggest, I'm a true centrist.

"there can be no such thing as a War on a Thing!"

I agree in principle, and understand your concern that it is a strawman to keep the military industrial complex alive, but there is some logic in using "violence" per se as a label for the enemy of us all.

Mairead Maguire, the Irish Nobel laureate, has a perspective that suggests we CAN identify "the bad guys" by their violence... thus violence itself is what we should use as our guage of where our efforts should be directed.

The war on Terror should really be the war on violence, of all kinds.

So, there is some logic to using "terror" as the label for the "enemy" as long as we include ourselves on that list, and are willing to address our own terrorism, in all its pernicious and subtle forms. Nut "violence" is probably the more complete term.

So Hillary, Gore has shown his Global Warming position, and now Bush has his. So do you again follow the Bush lead or strike out among your own mind's version. Can we get something out of you that is unique to your prospective or as a shadow you will again hide behind the skirts of others.

Hillary show US the real President wanna be, "We the people" cannot afford another four year secrecy. The Republicans have a plan that once you are the Democratic candidate every secret will come out anyway and in your silence the Tricky Dick Texan Rove politics will do to you what they did to McCain, destroy him in Iraq like intelligence.

Hillary you are a stong woman but somewhat arrogant, show the feminine side of strength in reaching out to US in that personality, JFK style. Hillary walk among US and show the reality of education, Katrina, and Main Street issues.

Hillary become more human as a women who will lead for "We the people" and not for special interests. Hillary give us history lessons in our schools and your conversation of the true patriotism of others and who you are. Gosh have Bill give you lessons, for right now you are a Frat in a Fraternity run college talking to the regular students.

Okay, Edwards and Obama, go to Gore and do your homework and declare Independence from "The Machine." The cracks of the Washington Corporate Government establishment are starting the rebuilding of the Jeffersonians revival over the Bohemian Goliaths that a David figure (Not Me) will come to slay that corruption of Golden Idols.

Edwards, Obama, and other Presidential candidates wear a Myanmar Freedom flag or symbol, let a Buddist Monk give a peace prayer and do not let Lady Liberty die like on a Tienanmen Square military take over. Put a Democratic resolution in Congress of support for real Freedom and Democracy for its people. One that withstands the Bush and Cheney type tyrants. In one of the greatest pictures of time let all candidates Democratic and Republicans join in one picture to show solidarity to the Freedom monks, but alas this is a Democratic dream. A dream with these people bore in the patriotism to live in their own Myanmar Way not a Bush form of strong arm diplomacy but of a nation uniting in a common goal of FREEDOM. Can politicians picture this?

Well, another Sunday and we did not watch the talks shows. Probably just won't bother for a long time.

Florida is acting so childish, some I hear are wishing Bill Nelson would back off. He is acting strange.

Everyone in Florida is suing someone else

And one is even saying he will sue IA, NH, NV, and SC for being rogue terrorist states.

lmao @ bo (bimbo) dereck and dennis puke miller (D list if ever there were)

Looks like Rudy spent his time with THEM instead of showing up for the debates!!

The fact they have NO SHAME for being the bigots they are just amazes me. I hope they get cut down to size SOON!

Morning TRUTH SEEKERS! Obama is ahead in IOWA!

according to the talking heads this day!

Posted by PamB on September 30, 2007 at 12:38 PM

exactly they don't KNOW how to fight clean (the English learned that about us too)

you have to take the debate down (unfortunately) to make them THINK they are being dealt with......... otherwise they will spend all their free time doing dastardly deeds done dirt cheap!

Hillary is clever
So is Obama
Eddie has too much on his plate for one man. I feel sorry for him really. And now he doesn't have enough money to make it to the General Election even IF HE wins the first couple primaries. (which I personally doubt more each day)

ANY DEM will do and the winds are blowing more and more in the direction of the FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT which means we will not only have the TOP seat but the SPEAKER of the HOUSE too~!

That kicks Ass (imo) and NO I'm not deluding myself about Hillary OR the rest. They all have their downsides. So be it. No one is perfect. Not that I've ever seen. And I don't believe in mythical perfection either.

Well it's been fun watching our numbers go up (dems) in the first place. It give me a lot of comfort knowing people have come to their senses.

Have a great day. Pammy it's been chilly here and I've picked up some bug because of it. Brrrr I left the window open the other night. DUMB!

lol Peace

Maybe what trolls say is less and less relavent. They're just ignored or toyed with now. What the trolls post is just silly and most people know it.

Posted by salutetheDems on September 30, 2007 at 01:22 PM

I'm sure they've been dumped from all the other blogs they've wandered to...... except maybe the porn for idiots site!

And I don't think they have real jobs either. More like french fry guy at mickie D's or something equally as ignorant and nasty!

So did you all hear NEWt this morning say that he thinks Dems will win in 08? I can't believe he admitted it. Except he said not by the landslide we think because of the fact it will probably be Hillary. But he admitted she will still win.

Funny how they become honest AFTER they leave office.

Posted by let_freedom_ring on September 30, 2007 at 01:29 PM

Apparently greed is more of a personality disorder than anyone once thought. Perhaps one day we'll discover the gene for that too!! And get rid of it.

from dobson's lips to god's ear:

Religious right may blackball Giuliani

Christian conservative leaders privately consider supporting a third-party, antiabortion candidate should Rudy Giuliani win the GOP nomination.

By Michael Scherer

Sept. 30, 2007 | WASHINGTON -- A powerful group of conservative Christian leaders decided Saturday at a private meeting in Salt Lake City to consider supporting a third-party candidate for president if a pro-choice nominee like Rudy Giuliani wins the Republican nomination.

The meeting of about 50 leaders, including Focus on the Family's James Dobson, the Family Research Council's Tony Perkins and former presidential candidate Gary Bauer, who called in by phone, took place at the Grand America Hotel during a gathering of the Council for National Policy, a powerful shadow group of mostly religious conservatives. James Clymer, the chairman of the U.S. Constitution Party, was also present at the meeting, according to a person familiar with the proceedings.

"The conclusion was that if there is a pro-abortion nominee they will consider working with a third party," said the person, who spoke to Salon on the condition of anonymity. The private meeting was not a part of the official CNP schedule, which is itself a closely held secret. "Dobson came in just for this meeting," the person said.

The decision confirms the fears of many Republican Party officials, who have worried that a Giuliani nomination would irrevocably split the GOP in advance of the 2008 general election, given Giuliani's relatively liberal stands on gay unions and abortion, as well as his rocky marital history. The private meeting was held Saturday afternoon, during a lull in the official CNP schedule. Earlier in the day, Vice President Dick Cheney had traveled to Utah to deliver a brief address to the larger CNP gathering. Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney also addressed the larger group.

The decision has also been reported in an unsigned article by WorldNetDaily, a conservative online news service. "Not only was there a consensus among activists to withhold support for the Republican nominee, there was even discussion about supporting the entry of a new candidate to challenge the frontrunners," the article said. According to the Salt Lake Tribune, WorldNetDaily's editor, Joseph Farah, attended the larger CNP gathering.

According to a New York Times profile, the CNP was established in 1981, with the help of Paul Weyrich, chairman of the Free Congress Foundation, and the Rev. Tim LaHaye, the bestselling author of the "Left Behind" book series. In recent years, President Bush, former Undersecretary of State John Bolton and former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld have met with the group, the Times reported. CNP membership is a closely held secret, and its meetings are not publicly announced or open to the press.

Dobson, who is one of the nation's most outspoken Christian leaders, has previously announced that he does not support Giuliani, Arizona Sen. John McCain or former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson as nominees for the Republican Party.

Attendees at the Saturday afternoon meeting also discussed the possibility of recruiting another person to run for the Republican nomination, said the person familiar with the proceedings. Several names have already been floated, though no decision on a possible candidate has yet been made, the person said.

Bill Mahers NEW RULES

he's so funny!! I see he had Rahm as a guest and it was nice to see him laughing. I have rarely seen that from him.

I love Utube!

Posted by gregg on September 30, 2007 at 01:40 PM

Hey Greggy! how ya doin Hon? Did you catch all the talking heads today?

I remember a few years ago when I couldn't barely stand turning on the TV it was so jaded to the right. Now they have little choice but be more honest thanks to all of US!!! YAY US!

I actually look forward to watching MOST of it. The boob tube. Someone should let Fade know that she can bring her TV back in from the dumpster. The truth is blowing our way again!

LOL I just joined a new group on facebook.

it's called (hehe)

I bet I can find 1,000,000 people who dislike George Bush!

so far there are 113,153 and it hasn't been up long! hehehaha!

so I invited all my facebook friends to join and it turns out Wes Clark and Al Franken have already been invited! LOL

Here are some MYSPACE links to some pretty GREAT PEOPLE if anyone hasn't seen them yet!

Jimmy Carter

Al Gore

Howard Dean

Hillary

Jim Webb
Russ Feingold
Wes Clark
Joe Biden
Bill Richardson

just to link a few

some of their sites are pretty good too!
I hope you can see some of them.

Afternoon Dawnie and all other good Dems,

FU troll.

Why is it that the last week or so the trolls that run Fox Classic Movies and American Classic Movies have been showing war movies. They have played almost all the john wayne war movies (wayne was a chicken hawk of course) and they have The longest Day (about D-Day), Midway, and many others. Today they are playing Twelve O'clock High.

Is this part of the run-up to cheney's planned war with Iran?

They usually show war movies in May in honor of VE day and Memorial Day and in August for VJ day.

So, there is some logic to using "terror" as the label for the "enemy" as long as we include ourselves on that list, and are willing to address our own terrorism, in all its pernicious and subtle forms. Nut "violence" is probably the more complete term.
Posted by JEP on September 30, 2007 at 12:58 PM

The point is, JEP, that the word Terror is a 'feeling', and that is trying to say a War is on a feeling ! They could have used the term violence, but then that is not scary enough !

And fat-Thomas is spinning that there are 'photos' of all his rants somewhere in cyber-space! Like Who he thinks every goes into infinity looking for them is a Hoot ! And the blog moderators, God Bless Them, flush the troll droppings just as effeciently as ever. Every morning, including Monday morning bright and early, there is a flush and a block on each and every one. They must then all re-register. Must be so irratating to get that Rejection each and every day!!! hahahahaha

pUSs, get over here and take you damn mom home. she is up on the roof, drunk, topless and screaming she wants to " do the nasty with john galt" and the neighbors are livid......

gregg:

LMAO at that picture ! How did you ever get involved with these muthas and their deadbeat sons?! ! :)

LOL oh my what a punk. I've never been on welfare but thank GOODNESS we've got it! Or we'd be like every other 3rd world country you dumb chit.

btw, besides serving my country in the MILITARY I've also served by working at many respectable companies including, March of Dimes, YMCA, St. Margaret's and St. Boniface Churches, 2 CPA's, spent the first year on disability (partial) building COMPUTERS with a friend and learning website design. Also worked part time doing WEB SITE maintenance on two companies websites.

And those are just the last 20 yrs. Remember I'm 51 and have worked since I was 15!! Ok that was a waitress but that still counts!

NOW - find a way to degrade my accomplishments? I know you can't. I am on permanent disability (they say) I'm still holding out hope for a DEM PRESIDENT to open up all lines of DNA for study.

Oh yea, my record is sterling compared to yours I'm sure~ If I wasn't disabled I'd probably run for some office cuz I have less skeletons in my closet (I've found out) than MOST politicians!

oh I also type 80wpm

it's cLOL I just joined a new group on facebook.alled (hehe)

I bet I can find 1,000,000 people who dislike George Bush!

Too funny, Dawnie. I just joined and reading the posts from all over the world on there is hilarious. The guy from Norway hopes Bush never finds out they have any oil there, and decides to go looking for their Weapons of Mass Destruction? :) Looks like the entire world is aware EXACTLY what this man and his admistration of neo-cons did !

Posted by PamB on September 30, 2007 at 03:17 PM

AWEsOME Pammy!! U got my invite? A FullBird friend of mine invited me. He got to Clark and Franken before I did. LOL

I sure wish you weren't such a BABE Pammy you have all these trolls so hot for you. It's a bit disconcerting!

teehee j/k

dang this is the 30th???

I have to change my front page.

Oooo it gets spooky in Oct!

brb

It's not what you say that matters, it's what you do.

Good Afternoon, ALL!

Pam, even the World leaders know Chimpy is a crock o' crap, and are starting to publicly state it.

"It was a total charade and has been exposed as a charade," the diplomat said. "I have never heard a more humiliating speech by a major leader. He [Mr Bush] was trying to present himself as a leader while showing no sign of leadership. It was a total failure."

John Ashton, Britain's special envoy on climate change, who attended the conference, said: "It is striking here how isolated the US has become on this issue. There is no support among the industrialised countries for the proposition that we should proceed on the basis of voluntary commitments.

"The most inspiring example of leadership this week was the speech on Monday at the UN by Arnold Schwarzenegger."

Europeans angry after Bush climate speech 'charade'

· US isolated as China and India refuse to back policy
· President claims he can lead world on emissions

why, THOMAS, I am sure I could dig up a satellite picture of Steven Thornberg of Hinckley if you would like to see the no-ass swede! And while I am at it, perhaps another go round of his website, with his little clicker on there that counts how many suckers, ooops, I mean customers he gets. And then of course, his EBAY user name, so people could really screw with his head and his grain cleaners he is trying to sell !

Keep it up, Balkie, and Stevie who gave you everything on me will be known worldwide too !

Giuliani argues he can beat Hillary

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070930/ap_on_el_pr/giuliani_looking_ahead_2;_ylt=ApuVNPxHudMMxsmSZmz51oz5buRF

Bring it on, rudy, bring it on!

On his 3rd marriage to a 2 time loser herself. His own family routing for the Democrats ! Police and Firefighters against him because he caused more deaths on 9/11 with his negligence. His approval was at the bottom right before 9/11.

But most of all, simple ads pointing out to Republicans that he is Pro abortion, Pro Gay, anti gun, should really do it !

Wow, this is telling ! Gingrich won't even endorse one of those Republican rubber stamping candidates, thinks Hillary will win it!!! hehehehe

Gingrich, who served 10 terms in the U.S. House of Representatives from Georgia, said he would not endorse any other candidate. He has been critical of the Republican Bush administration's approach to war, immigration policy, health care and response to crises such as Hurricane Katrina.

He said Senator Hillary Clinton of New York, a Democrat, has an 80 percent chance of becoming the next U.S. president. ``The Clinton machine is the most powerful political machine in modern America,'' he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20070930/pl_bloomberg/allbjsmtady4_1

DPD, Bush is trying desperately to salvage his legacy, and that climate speech, if given correctly and truthfully would have helped him, but he is too stupid, and his advisors don't give a hell about his legacy is nailing his coffin tighter and tighter.

looks like Biden's amendment will not fly.

BAGHDAD - The U.S. Embassy on Sunday criticized a Senate resolution that could lead to a division of the country into sectarian or ethnic territories, agreeing with a swath of Iraqi leaders in saying the proposal "would produce extraordinary suffering and bloodshed."

The unusual statement from the Bush administration came just hours after representatives of Iraq's major political parties denounced the U.S. Senate proposal calling for a limited centralized government with the bulk of the power given to the country's Shiite, Sunni or Kurdish regions, saying it would seriously hamper Iraq's future stability.

"Our goal in Iraq remains the same: a united, democratic, federal Iraq that can govern, defend, and sustain itself," the statement said. "Iraq's leaders must and will take the lead in determining how to achieve these national aspirations. ... attempts to partition or divide Iraq by intimidation, force or other means into three separate states would produce extraordinary suffering and bloodshed."

The nonbinding Senate resolution adopted last week calls for Iraq to be divided into federal regions under control of Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis in a power-sharing agreement similar to the one that ended the 1990s war in Bosnia. Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., was a prime sponsor of the measure.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070930/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

here's one of the TOP PNAC neo cons being heard from! Yeah, God forbid an uninsured child should get some coverage and preventative health care, like shots, etc. Wait till they develop some really big time diseases and disorders than we can all pay for them.

Bill Kristol: Bush's assault on Children (SCHIP) Is a good thing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x58861

Darfur attack kills peacekeepers
An attack on an African Union army base in the Sudanese region of Darfur has killed at least 10 peacekeepers. Full Story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7020596.stm

Your choice, there old gray head ! The daughter and the ex and the ex bro in law info just piling up here. So play your little games sending on my info to your only friends you have since Broomfield disappeared, and you pay for it. And let's face it, a picture of me getting surprised by Schubert, compared to everything I can post to people who would LOVE to mess with you, was proven by the mere fact people even from Canada were clicking into your website ! so there are lots of people would love to send on some of your choice filthy comments to Daddy's little girl.

ball in your court. Pull off your simpleton little balkies ! (ps, they don't realize that I MEAN it, like you do !)

War Injuries Strain Vets' System, Observers Say
By Jeff Donn and Kimberly Hefling
The Associated Press

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/093007F.shtml

From the Prince of Darkness' column today:

`````````````

DANGEROUS GOP VACANCIES

The Democratic candidacy of former basketball coach Dick Versace endangers 68 years of Republican control of the Peoria-based congressional seat in Illinois left vacant by the retirement of Republican Rep. Ray LaHood.

Versace was a highly popular coach of Bradley University in Peoria before going to coach in the NBA. LaHood is in his seventh term in Congress after succeeding his boss, then House Minority Leader Bob Michel.

A footnote: A Democratic takeover is even more likely for another Illinois seat: a Joliet-based district where Republican Rep. Jerry Weller is retiring under a cloud of scandal.

To find out more about Robert D. Novak and read his past columns, visit the Creators Syndicate web page at www.creators.com.

``````````````````

If Novak says it, you can assume that it came directly from Rove or somebody high up in the WH or GOP.

Also, Assturd's adjacent District has been leaning Dem for a few years, and the people of Tammy Duckworth's District HATE that Pug Chimp kisser who slithered into office. Mark Kirk could have some trouble in Rummy's old District, too.

Helping Prevent Traumatic Brain Injuries
This is a way you can get involved to help support our troops where Bush has failed them:

http://www.operation-helmet.org/

NEW poll for OCT.

Considering Nov. 08

Which PUG would you rather have to run against in 08?

speaking of daddy's little girl, isn't this bimbo supposed to be on TV tonight? Oh I just bet there will be millions, YES MILLIONS, of people who click in for that one! hahaha

Source: Sunday Times UK

September 30, 2007

This is heartbreaking – leave my dad alone, says Jenna Bush
Sarah Baxter

ONE of the twin daughters of President George W Bush has spoken of the heartbreak she feels about the Iraq war and the criticism of her father. “He is a totally different person to me than what they portray him as,” said Jenna Bush. “I mean, he’s my dad.”

The party girl who stuck her tongue out at reporters and was charged with underage drinking publishes a book this week called Ana’s Story, about an HIV-positive teenage mother whom she encountered on her travels in Central America with Unicef. She said she had met Ana and her baby in Panama, where the young woman had declared: “We are survivors.”

interesting look at DLC and their in effectivness.

The "Truth" to the DLC is that the DLC is a "centrist" movement, and the Democratic Party will win in 2008 by putting forward a "centrist" (read corporatist) candidate, who will attract the mythical "swing voter". This is "false narrative-lite" from the GOP-lite gang inside the Democratic Party. After seven years of the deconstruction of America, there are no swing voters left. You either want Bush and his entire gang of mobsters impeached, tried, and imprisoned; or you worship Bush and want anyone who speaks against him disappeared, tortured, and fed to the fish.
The false narrative from the DLC and the media is all about getting people to focus on the cult of personality instead of the issues. To focus on who can win, instead of what we want from government - when just about anyone with a "D" after their name could win by saying they would bring the troops home now. The false narrative is about loyalty oaths for followers, but not for party leaders.

Why would anyone who can remember the last fifteen years want anything to do with the policies we would get from a DLC candidate. The only one of them who ever won an important election was that charming rascal, Bill Clinton. And other than slow down the slide to theocracy a bit, what did the Democratic base get from his time in office? We got a few years of trickle down income growth and budget balancing from the insane dot.com bubble; but that was a one-time, cash-out- your-pension payment (which the toothless Dems promptly gave back, pre-911, without a fight, the minute W demanded tax cuts). Other than that, he spent a lot of time leaving liberal allies twisting in the wind and triangulating away long-held progressive ideas for tactical political gains. The major changes he pushed through, over the opposition of the traditional labor wing of the Democratic Party, were devastating.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3564374

time to start some din-din.

back later, Dems.

Of course, I agree with those here who have rightly confessed that a war on an emotion is an impossible thing to win. But that was not my point and so I will clarify.

The term "terrorist" as used by the military and our intelligence communities had traditionally been used to identify organizations requiring further attention, but who did not possess the resources nor pose a similar threat to that of a state rival. This was not only necessary to draw attention to these organizations in an effort to establish appropriate counter-measures, but was also necessary in the planning process as it ruled out actions that may be taken against a national government that might have no impact or may in fact worsen matters if applied to a terrorist organization.

What those who perverted this term to its present use, which is to define any substantial political/military rival as terrorist, did not know is that doing so would undermine and not improve our response to specific threats. They did not know this of course, instead choosing to believe that more attention was for the better, no matter what form it came in, but they were wrong just the same.

Our military is never going to be the solution to all of our problems. Certainly there are those who would disagree with me, but none who have considered all the evidence available to them. It is only through a very selective process that such a claim could be made, much like that used to make the case for WMD in Iraq.

Now, I'd like you to consider our greatest terrorist enemy, as described by the state department. Pay particular attention to the goals of this terrorist group as laid out by that department.

Terrorist networks currently pose the greatest national security threat to the United States. The greatest threat and the most wanted terrorists come from the al-Qaida (AQ) network, which includes a core al-Qaida organization and numerous confederated extremist groups.

The al-Qaida network has many of the characteristics of a "globalized insurgency" and employs subversion, sabotage, open warfare and, of course, terrorism. It seeks weapons of mass destruction or other means to inflict massive damage on the United States, our allies and interests, and the broader international system. AQ aims to overthrow the existing world order and replace it with a reactionary, authoritarian, transnational entity. This threat will be sustained over a protracted period (decades not years) and will require a global response executed regionally, nationally, and locally.

"AQ aims to overthrow the existing world order and replace it with a reactionary, authoritarian, transnational entity." Can you see how further military engagements, like that currently underway in Iraq, might facilitate this goal? I do. In fact, this is what many of us see as the most alarming result of our ill prepared for post-Saddam mission in Iraq. Here, not only has al-Qaida extended its influence and recruitment capabilities, but so have many similar organizations with more localized goals for power consolidation.

In essense, these unilateral missions can and often do benefit the more dynamic rival, such as al-Qaida, and lead to further destabilization of the very environment we wish to stabilize.

Posted by Harpo_Thinks_you_are_asshats on September 30, 2007 at 03:50 PM

I said I was kidding about it being disconcerting! I really don't give a rat's azzzzz what you bigots think (if you really do). I think they should lock you all up to be honest! You are a danger to America. Hell make that the whole friggen North American Continent!

They should make a pesticide for your kind. Then hit SPRAY!

Murtha is DA MAN!!

You can't come here and try to diss him. WE KNOW his history!

go away!

U.S. District Judge Rosemary M. Collyer said the congressman might be right, but said she won't know for sure unless Murtha explains himself. She did not set a date for Murtha's testimony but said she would also require him to turn over documents related to his comments.

from that article I had to look up myself cuz you trolls (if you are one) never provide links to your BS and accusations!

link is here

WHY I SUPPORT THE THREE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES, PRESENTLY THE RUNNERS UP IN THE POLLS, AT DIFFERENT LEVELS. WHY WOULD YOU SUPPORT THEM AT DIFFERENT LEVELS IN THE PRIMARY?

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, SENATOR, NEW YORK - I LIKE SENATOR CLINTON BECAUSE SHE IS RUNNING A CAREFULLY CONSTRUCTED CAMPAIGN AND IS ALREADY CAREFUL WITH THOUGHTS ON DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL POLICY. CAREFULNESS IN A PRESIDENT WOULD BE A WELCOME CHANGE AFTER GEORGE BUSH AND THE REPUBLICAN LEADERS HAVE NOT BEEN CAREFUL RECENTLY.

(If Mrs. Clinton, for some reason unbeknownst to the rest of us, does not win the Democratic Candidate Nomination, I think the former First Lady might be the best choice for Vice President.)

BARRACK OBAMA, SENATOR, ILLINOIS - I LIKE SENATOR OBAMA BECAUSE HE WAS ONE OF THE SENATORS WHO VOTED AGAINST THE IRAQ WAR AND WENT AGAINST THE UNDERLYING POLITICS OF THE WAR LONG BEFORE OTHERS DID. THIS SUPPORTS MR. OBAMA’S CAMPAIGN CLAIM THAT DIVISIBLE POLITICS WILL NOT BE AS USUAL UNDER AN OBAMA ADMINISTRATION.

A DIFFERENCE IN WHITE HOUSE POLITICAL MANAGEMENT IS IMPORTANT TO ME BECAUSE OF AMERICA FIGHTING THE POLITICS ON VIOLENCE IN THE MIDDLE EAST. I WOULD SUPPORT SENATOR OBAMA BECAUSE I THINK OUR PRESIDENT NEEDS TO SHOW AN EXAMPLE OF GOOD CONSCIOUS WITH POLITICS WHILE TAKING ON MIDDLE EASTERN POLITICS WITH ‘TOUGH DIPLOMACY’ AND AN ‘INTERNATIONAL’ IRON HAND.

(If Senator Obama, for some reason does not win the Democratic Nomination for President, I think Mr. Obama should be an advisor to The President. In the meanwhile, hopefully, Mr. Obama‘s successful campaign will give the other Official Candidates for President the American Publics message on divisive politics.)

JOHN EDWARDS, FORMER SENATOR, NORTH CAROLINA - I LIKE SENATOR EDWARDS BECAUSE I WOULD TRUST SENATOR EDWARDS TO VETO ANY BILL THROUGH DEMOCRATIC OR REPUBLICAN CONGRESSIONAL HANDS THAT WOULD ALLOW BIG BUSINESS TO CONTINUE TO SMITE THE AMERICAN WORKER IN ANY WAY. SO I LIKE THE IDEA OF A PRESIDENT EDWARDS OVER-SEEING THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, LET ALONE THE COUNTRY. (Therefore, if Senator Edwards does not win the Democratic National Committees Nomination, winning with what would be for only the American People’s right reasons, the average American Public could still win by demanding Mr. Edwards be appointed to over-see the Department of Justice.)

PEOPLE, ALL OF THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ARE RUNNING FOR THE RIGHT REASONS, FOR THEIR SELVES, FOR EACH OTHER, AND FOR AMERICA’S DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY AND MINORITY. Because before you think your already tough decision among these three Democratic Candidates is made, you need to think about the other candidates as well. Senator Biden, with thirty years experience on the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations offering his understanding of Middle Eastern culture while taking on the Iraq war.... (I don’t know about the rest of you, but I could not tell you that much about the un-represented Middle Eastern culture and the Middle Eastern Public’s relations with their governments over there? See why the American Public needs people to handle Middle Eastern Diplomacy for us?) There’s also, Senator Dodd, who has done the most work of any congressional leader for the National and International Legal Rights of detainees.... Governor Richardson of New Mexico, who says he wants no residual forces left in Iraq....

THESE CANDIDATES ARE SO GOOD THAT THE ONLY DANGER THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY FACES IS IN PEOPLE NOT BEING ABLE TO MAKE UP THEIR MINDS ON WHICH DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE TO VOTE FOR IN THE PRIMARIES!

NO ONE CARES OAT FLAKE - slither off will ya

You have the Berlin Wall that was destroyed for Freedom and the Bush Wall build for Bush Freedom. How Freedom has been redefined.

Now you need a passport to leave the U.S. by air but if you are a illegal Mexican worker, do you need to get a Mexican passport to go back? How do they get a Mexican Passport here? Can the police demand that they get proper ID by demanding they have their passport. Then illegals must need passports here to travel within the U.S. boundaries, don't they? So they can be tracked by homeland security. Do foreign travelers here need to show valid passports before boarding buses, planes, boats, and ships?

So do now people using boats to fish in Florida, Ohio, Michigan, and Alaska need passports, for leaving the three mile limit or for accidently entering Canada? Do we draw lines around the Lake Erie Islands? So the greatest peace time border will have a Bush border patrol against prior treaties.

Okay, do not all Mexican Truckers entering the U.S. have to have Mexican passports? So do now Cuban fleeing Cuba needing them.

I think that drivers licenses be issued only to legal residents, foreign residents can get International Licenses or other valid country drivers licenses.

With regular driver's licenses an illegal citizen can get a ticket without added security.

Also that any business owner who has a business here who is a foreigner has to have a valid passport to run a business.

More from the State Department.

Conditions that Terrorists Exploit

"The key factors that spawned international terrorism show no signs of abating over the next 15 years. ... Lagging economies, ethnic affiliations, intense religious convictions, and youth bulges will align to create a "perfect storm," creating conditions likely to spawn internal conflict. The governing capacity of states, however, will determine whether and to what extent conflicts actually occur. Those states unable both to satisfy the expectations of their peoples and to resolve or quell conflicting demands among them are likely to encounter the most severe and most frequent outbreaks of violence." [National Intelligence Council, Mapping the Global Future, December 2004.]

Here we see the conditions that our state department finds the most beneficial to the success of terrorist organizations. They include but are not limited to Lagging economies, ethnic affiliations, intense religious convictions, and youth bulges. In Iraq, a nation where military intervention was deemed necessary, we see every one of these criteria being fulfilled, not by preexisting conditions, but as a result of an ill managed post war state.

Lagging economy? Certainly we can say that this is true of a country not yet capable of producing the same amount of oil, that countries cash cow, that it was capable of producing immediately before our mission began.

Ethnic affiliations? Well, more than ever before we see an Iraq divided along ethnic lines. They have even gone so far as to self-segregate.

Intense religius convictions? Need I say more?

Youth bulges I believe would properly describe the conflicts that are likely to arise between a generation reared under the leadership of a unified Iraq and those reared under the ethnically divided Iraq that we see today.

So, according to the State Department's criteria, what we have today in Iraq is more conducive, not less conducive, to the generation of a terrorist threat. How again then does the Bush administration justify its continued support of a mission that has failed so miserably in reducing the threat of terrorist attack?

Posted by ElizabethJW on September 30, 2007 at 04:48 PM

Elizabeth you're talkin to me with that one!!

N knee Dem will doooo ;-)

Posted by commonjoe on September 30, 2007 at 04:51 PM

if the shoe fits troll

if you are NOT (as I stated) then it should not bother you except you didn't provide any links to your accusation and you left OUT the MEAT of the article. IMO.

FINE DEMS don't forget to VOTE

I think they should lock you all up to be honest! You are a danger to America. Hell make that the whole friggen North American Continent!

Posted by NkneeDemDawn on September 30, 2007 at 04:30 PM

This is why I call them American Terrorists. They are terrorists by their very support of Bush. They are no better than those who threaten our country.

Oh, and don't pay attention to the Murtha story. It is no big deal. they merely want to hear where he got the info that he quoted. Just another one of those stories that the Right wing radical moonbats jump on and think they got something important ! there is nothing else out there, as you know ! :0

Oh , and Stevie. Eric of Netscape legal dept will be so disappointed with you ! When he called last time, he said next time I let him know you were up to your cyber abuse, your access, email, website would all be eliminated ! tsk, tsk. there goes your business, your ebay, everything!

OH, and I never thought of it before, but maybe your little girl's school has pictures and I can post where to check out if her pimples ever cleared up! So think twice before you try and impress THOMAS, and ask yourself Is it worth the end of your kid's privacy as well as your's ???
There are some like Johnny boswell who would LOVE to start posting her info every single night, wouldn't he. Now go clean some corn and leave our blog alone !

heading out for a while, Dems. The fresh air is a pleasant relief.

speaking of bigots

here's a Utube of Bill Maher (he's popular today) talking about Bill O and the PUGS that never showed up for the debate put on by Tavis.

again Rahm is a guest - either he's a regular or this is just a clip from later on in that same show I posted earlier. Still worth watching if you like Bill Maher. And I don't get HBO so it's a treat for me.

I'm heading out now too! Peace all!

Did anyone read Leondard Pitt's this weekend? Just incase you are interested and missed it here you go...

Free speech can be so — well, let's face it — rude

Some of you guys are jerks.

No, I'm not talking about you, dear reader, whose erudition and class I've always admired. And you smell good, too.

But some of you other guys are some seriously preliterate knuckle draggers. Exhibit A would be the relatively new message boards on the Web site of that great metropolitan newspaper, The Miami Herald. Or at least it would have been, before management stepped in a few weeks back, began policing the boards more closely and put up a notice asking people to keep their comments on-point.

Before that, the message boards, theoretically a place where readers engage in robust debate on articles and commentaries in the paper, were a sewer of sexist, racist, pornographic crudity. For instance, a story on Shaquille O'Neal's divorce engendered an exchange on the basketball star's probable penis size. A story on Cubans brought the "I Hate Hispanics" crowd out in force. A story about the search for a black suspected cop-killer begat a call for lynching. Which, in turn, inspired someone to respond, "Bleep the police and all of you white racist folk." Yadda yadda yadda...

ONe more for the road

and here it goes

Neocons seek to justify action against Teheran

those crazy bassssstardos!

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/08/071008fa_fact_hersh

Iran here we come. And watch the Democrats fall for all the fake intelligence just like they did with Iraq. WImps.

By the way here is a great article on what's coming. Please check it out this site.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/10/08/071008fa_fact_hersh

If we have Democrats, who again fail to do their homework to protect US from Cowboy Dirty Dick Tricks Intelligence using BlackWatergate plummer tactics they will then declare Iran has a Russian arsenal.

ELECTION INFORMATION - Find Out When YOUR Primary Election Will Be Held

STATE PRIMARY & GENERAL ELECTION Voting CONTACT INFORMATION for the 50 States of the United States

Secretaries of State ELECTION Phone Numbers & Web Addresses

Alabama (334)242-7210; 1-(800)274-8683 http://www.sos.alabama.gov/
Alaska (907)465-4611; 1-(888)383-8683 http://www.elections.state.ak.us/
Arizona (602)542-8683;1-(877)843-8683 http://www.az.sos.gov/
Arkansas (501)682-5070;1-(800)482-1127 http://www.sos.arkansas.gov/
California (916)657-2166;1-(800)345-8683 http://www.sos.ca.gov/
Colorado (303)894-2200; http://www.state.co.us
Connecticut (860)509-6100; http://www.sots.ct.gov/
Delaware (302)739-4277; 1-(800)273-9500 http://www.elections.delaware.gov/
Florida (850)245-6200; 1(866)308-6739; 1-(850)245-6290 http://election.dos.state.fl.us
Georgia (404)656-2871; http://www.sos.state.ga.us
Hawaii (808)453-8683; 1-(800)442-8683 http://www.hawaii.gov/elections/
Idaho (208)334-2852; http://www.sos.idaho.gov/
Illinois (217)782-4141 Springfield; (312)814-6440 Chicago; 1-(800)527-8683;1-(800)923-8683 http://www.elections.il.gov/
Indiana (317)232-3939; 1-(800)622-4941 http://www.in.gov/sos/elections/
Iowa (515)281-5781; 1-(888)767-8683 http://www.sos.state.ia.us/
Kansas (785)296-4561; 1-(800)262-8683 http://www.voteks.org/
Kentucky (502)573-7100; 1-(800)246-1399 http://www.sos.ky.gov/
Louisiana (225)922-0900; 1-(800)883-2805 http://www.sos.louisiana.gov/elections/elections-index.htm
Maine (207)624-7736; http://www.maine.gov/sos/
Maryland (410)269-2840; 1(800)222-8683 http://www.elections.state.md.us/
Massachusetts (617)727-2828; 1-(800)462-8683 http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/
Michigan (517)373-2540; http://www.michigan.gov/sos
Minnesota (651)215-1440; 1-(877)600-8683 http://www.sos.state.mn.us
Mississippi (601)359-1350; 1-(800)829-6786 http://www.sos.state.ms.us/
Missouri (573)751-2301; 1-(800)669-8683 http://www.sos.mo.gov/
Montana (406)444-4732; 1-(888)884-8683 http://www.sos.mt.gov/
Nebraska (402)471-2555; http://www.sos.state.ne.us/
Nevada (775)684-5705; http://sos.state.nv.us/elections/
New Hampshire (603)271-3242; http://www.sos.nh.gov/
New Jersey (609)292-3760; 1-(877)658-6837 http://www.state.nj.us/lps/elections/electionshome.html
New Mexico (505)827-3600; 1-(800)477-3632 http://www.sos.state.nm.us/
New York (518)474-6220; 1-(800)367-8683 http://www.elections.state.ny.us/
North Carolina (919)733-7173; http://www.sboe.state.nc.us/
North Dakota (701)328-7900; 1-(800)352-0867 http://www.nd.gov/sos/
Ohio (614)466-2585; 1-(877)767-6446 http://www.sos.state.oh.us/
Oklahoma (405)521-2391; http://www.elections.state.ok.us/
Oregon (503)986-1518; 1-(866)673-8683 http://www.oregonvotes.org
Pennsylvania (717)787-5280; 1-(800)552-8683 http://www.dos.state.pa.us/bcel/site/default.asp
Rhode Island (401)222-2345; 1-(877)462-8683 http://www.elections.ri.gov/
South Carolina (803)734-9060; http://www.scvotes.org/
South Dakota (605)773-3537; http://www.sdsos.gov
Tennessee (615)741-7956; http://www.state.tn.us/sos/
Texas (512)463-5650; 1-(800)252-8683 http://www.sos.state.tx.us
Utah (801)538-1041; 1-(800)995-8683 http://www.elections.utah.gov/voterinformation.html
Vermont (802)828-2464; 1(800)439-8683 http://vermont-elections.org/soshome.htm
Virginia (804)864-8901; 1-(800)552-9745 http://www.sbe.state.va.us
Washington (360)902-4180; 1-(800)448-4881 http://www.secstate.wa.gov/elections/
West Virginia (304)558-6000; 1-(866)767-8683 http://www.wvsos.com/
Wisconsin (608)266-8005; 1-(866)868-3947 http://elections.wi.gov
Wyoming (307)777-7186; http://soswy.state.wy.us

With the above voting contact information, check with your state to find out the dates of your presidential primaries, state primaries, general elections and run offs, etc. in your area. It is of utmost importance that the DLC be voted out of the Congress of the United States and all state governments.

Vote out the DLC (NDN & NDC).

Iran here we come. And watch the Democrats fall for all the fake intelligence just like they did with Iraq. WImps.

Posted by RoyfromNewYork on September 30, 2007 at 05:56 PM

Roy, you have a point. The mindless fabrication of intelligence that led us into the Iraq War is being repeated by some where Iran is concerned.

Iran, for instance, is being singled out as the major cause of our problems inside Iraq, as though our own intelligence had not already assigned that honor to Saudi Arabia.

We have some serious problems in maintaining our Middle Eastern trade relationships. Some hope to prevent this through a simple show of force, typically those who lack the courage to take part in those actions in the first place, while others support an approach that puts positive relationship building first.

Why do the later subscribe to this all but forgotten approach to foreign policy? Because it works and is the American way. Were it not, you and I may in fact find ourselves living in a nation very similar to that we see in Iraq, where conflict is the rule and compromise the exception.

back again, but just to log out. busy day tomorrow so have to get ready for it.

I will blog ya tomorrow, when the trash has all been taken out.

(no stevie, I do not pick on your daughter because I can't get to Thomas. I pick on you because YOU are the one who gave him my last name, photo, etc ! If you had only not tried to brag to your new friends, your daughter would be ok! so you choose !) nite nite.

The Shadow Army
by Janine R. Wedel

IF THERE is a quagmire in Iraq, it was created more than a decade ago when the United States instituted a flawed system governing the use of contractors to perform governmental functions. Now, despite Iraqi fury at Blackwater USA, some of whose employees are accused of fatally shooting Iraqis, Washington is so reliant on the firm that it dare not order it from the field.

The heavy dependence on private contractors in the military is relatively recent. In the Gulf War only 9,200 contractors supported 540,000 military personnel. The estimated 180,000 US-funded contractors now in Iraq (of which about 21,000 are Americans) outnumber the 160,000 US troops.

All too often this private army has been unmanageable and unaccountable, its interests dangerously divergent from those of the US and the Iraqi governments. The troubles exposed by the Blackwater debacle provide a glimpse into a much larger, systemic problem that pervades military, intelligence, and homeland security efforts alike.

The Bush administration came into office bent on privatizing as many government functions as possible and threw billions into the mix in its Iraq venture. It was changes in the contracting system, instituted during the Clinton administration, though, that transformed the contracting rules and undercut oversight, transparency, and competition.

Through the Clinton and Bush II administrations, outsourcing steadily accelerated. In fiscal year 2006, the federal government awarded contracts valued at over $420 billion, more than double the amount awarded in 2000, according to the Federal Procurement Data System. The war in Iraq has spurred contracting to record-breaking heights. As the federal government’s biggest buyer of services, the Department of Defense, in fiscal 2006 alone, obligated upwards of $151 billion in service contracts, a rise since 1996 of 78 percent. The transfer of many military functions to the private sector occurred at the same time that government oversight , has been diminished. The Defense Department is ever-more dependent on contractors to supply a host of “mission-critical services,” according to the Government Accountability Office. These services include “information technology systems, interpreters, intelligence analysts, as well as weapons system maintenance and base operation support,” according to the GAO.

Moreover, functions that were once the responsibility of military personnel are now essentially in private hands. For example, websites of contractors working for the Defense Department have posted announcements of job openings for analysts to perform such functions as preparing the department’s budget. One contractor boasted of having written the Army Field Manuals on Contractors on the Battlefield.

Yet, while private companies are acquiring government functions and the number of contractors is on the rise, the number of Defense Department employees available to oversee them has declined. For 15 years, the GAO has included the Pentagon’s contract management operation on its list of “high-risk” activities. This designation means that the department may well lack “the ability to effectively manage cost, quality, and performance in contracts,” according to US Comptroller General David M. Walker, head of the GAO. When these deficiencies play out on the ground in Iraq, they can have serious consequences.

The extensive transfer of functions to the private sector raises more fundamental concerns. The overarching goal of government is supposedly the adoption of policies and practices that promote the public good. For contractors performing government services, the bottom line is profit.

Further, military personnel are governed by regulations that do not apply to contractors, such as those Blackwater employees involved in the shooting. They do not fall under the rules of war or the Geneva Convention. The records of private employees in war zones are exempt from scrutiny under the Freedom of Information Act. And, unlike military personnel, contract employees on the battlefield can quit their jobs when the going gets rough.

The Iraq war has exposed the dangers of contracting out vital state functions to private actors. Such massive privatization renders government more susceptible to the influence of unelected private players with their own interests - players who are far removed from the oversight of government and the scrutiny of voters.

Inherently governmental functions, such as the direction of military and intelligence operations, ought not to be privatized. It is vital to reverse Clinton-era procurement “reforms” and to restore effective government oversight - and Bush-era extensions of them. Otherwise, the public can be more easily mislead, and America’s interests, along with its moral standing, will be repeatedly undercut by a shadow army.

Janine R. Wedel is professor of public policy at George Mason University and a fellow at New America Foundation.

-------------------------------------------------------
IACM-Bulletin of 30 September 2007
-------------------------------------------------------

A new article by Dr. Emmanuel Onaivi, a professor at the
William Paterson University in New Jersey, USA, entitled "An
endocannabinoid hypothesis of drug reward" has been published
in CANNABINOIDS, the online journal of the IACM. The
article is available in English on the journal's website:
http://www.cannabis-med.org/english/home.htm. Versions in
German and Spanish will follow. Short letters to the editor are
welcome.
The website of the IACM is currently visited by about 8,000
persons per day, about 250,000 per month.

* Science: THC normalized impaired psychomotor performance
in a patient with hyperactivity disorder
* USA: The state of Washington tries to define a standard
dosage for cannabis

1.

Science: THC normalized impaired psychomotor performance
and mood in a patient with hyperactivity disorder

Scientists at the Department for Forensic and Traffic Medicine
of the University of Heidelberg, Germany, investigated the
effects of cannabis on driving related functions in a 28 year old
man with attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD). He
had violated traffic regulations several times in recent years and
his driving licence was revoked due to driving under the
influence of cannabis. He showed abnormal behaviour, seemed
to be significantly maladjusted and his concentration was heavily
impaired while sober during the first meeting with a psychologist.
He was allowed to perform driving related tests under the
influence of the cannabis compound dronabinol (THC), which
his doctor had prescribed him to treat his symptoms. The
examiner expected that he was not able to drive a car under the
acute influence of THC.

But at the second visit his behaviour was markedly improved
and he performed average and partly above-average in all tests
on reaction speed, sustained attention, visual orientation,
perception speed and divided attention. A blood sample taken
after the tests revealed a high THC concentration of 71 ng/ml in
blood serum. He admitted later to have smoked cannabis and
not taken dronabinol, because it was too expensive.
Researchers noted that "people with ADHD are found to violate
traffic regulations, to commit criminal offences and to be
involved in traffic accidents more often than the statistical norm"
and conclude from their investigation that "it has to be taken into
account that in persons with ADHD THC may have atypical and
even performance-enhancing effects."

(Source: Strohbeck-Kuehner P, Skopp G, Mattern R.
Fahrtüchtigkeit trotz (wegen) THC. [Fitness to drive in spite
(because) of THC] [Article in German] Arch Kriminol
2007;220(1-2):11-9.)

2.

USA: The state of Washington tries to define a standard dosage
for cannabis

According to the medical cannabis law of the state of
Washington qualified patients may possess up to a 60-day
supply of cannabis. Now the state legislature wants to know
how much that is, since there is no standard dose and no
standard method to use cannabis medicinally. Therefore the state
is holding hearings to ask experts and citizens for their opinions
on how to determine a two-month supply. Currently in each
county, law enforcement effectively decides what constitutes a
60-day supply.

Of the 12 states that protect medical cannabis patients from
state prosecution, Washington is the only one without clear
guidelines on the amount a patient or designated caregiver is
allowed to possess. Oregon allows the largest supply - 24
ounces (about 680 grams) or six mature plants - and several
states only allow patients to have one ounce (about 28 grams) of
usable cannabis on hand. In California, state law sets a limit of 8
ounces or six mature plants, but cities and counties are free to
establish higher guidelines. There are fears among patients in
Washington that the state might set the limit too low. Public
comments on the issue will be accepted until the end of the year,
and in early 2008, the department of health will publish a
proposed rule.

(Source: Los Angeles Times of 23 September 2007)

3.

News in brief

***Science: Heart protection
According to a study of researchers of the Hebrew University in
Jerusalem the non-psychoactive cannabinoid cannabidiol (CBD)
protected the heart against damage by reduced blood supply in
an animal study. A heart artery was ligated in rats for 30
minutes. In animals treated thereafter for 7 days with CBD
infarct size was reduced by 66 per cent compared to non-
treated rats. (Source: Durst R, et al. Am J Physiol Heart Circ
Physiol. 2007 Sep 21; [Electronic publication ahead of print])

***Science: Schizophrenia
Researchers at the Medical School of Hannover investigated in
104 patients with schizophrenia and 140 healthy controls, with
mutations in the cannabinoid-1 receptor was associated with an
increased risk for schizophrenia. Such an association was not
detected. (Source: Seifert J, et al. Neurosci Lett. 2007 Aug 10;
[Electronic publication ahead of print])

***Science: New cannabinoid receptor
According to researchers of the pharmaceutical company
AstraZeneca there is now sufficient evidence that the receptor
GPR55 is a novel cannabinoid receptor. Among the substances
that bind to this receptor are the endocannabinoids anandamide
and virodhamine, the phytocannabinoid cannabidiol and the
synthetic cannabinoids CP55940 and abnormal cannabidiol.
(Source: Ryberg E, et al. Br J Pharmacol. 2007 Sep 17;
[Electronic publication ahead of print])

4.

ONE YEAR AGO:
- Science: Nabilone reduces pain in patients with spasticity
- Germany: A summary of one year of work of the Cannabis
Pharmacy
- Science: THC reduces intraocular pressure in patients with
glaucoma

TWO YEARS AGO:
- Science: Cannabis reduces neuropathic pain due to multiple
sclerosis in clinical study
- Science: Survey on medical use of cannabis in sickle cell
disease

(More at the IACM-Bulletin archives: http://www.cannabis-
med.org/)

International Association for Cannabis as Medicine (IACM)
Rueckertstrasse 4
D-53819 Neunkirchen
Germany
Phone: 2247-968083
Fax: 2247-9159223
Email: info@cannabis-med.org
http://www.cannabis-med.org

If you want to be deleted from or added to the IACM-Bulletin
mailing list or if you want to change your e-mail address please
visit
www.cannabis-med.org/english/subscribe.htm. You may choose
between different languages (English, German, French, Dutch,
Italian and Spanish).

Published on Saturday, September 29, 2007 by The Nation
Ending War for Profit
by Katrina Vanden Heuvel

Based on the work of Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph E. Stiglitz and Harvard public finance lecturer Linda J. Bilmes, the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC) recently determined that the Iraq war costs $720 million per day, $500,000 per minute - enough to provide homes for nearly 6,500 families, or health care for 423,529 children in just one day.

AFSC is using ten, seven-foot banners displayed at legislative and congressional offices around the country to illustrate the costs of the war and the human needs that could be addressed with those same resources. The National Priorities Project (NPP) also has a new report on the Bush Administration’s latest $50 billion spending request, which would bring the total cost of the Iraq War to $617 billion.

In addition to these staggering costs, we’re also learning more about how this war has served as a boondoggle for defense contractors, with war profit-making gone out of control. The Nation’s Jeremy Scahill was way ahead of the curve in reporting on Blackwater’s role in the most radically privatized, outsourced war in history. (Last week, Jeremy was asked to testify before the Democratic Policy Committee about his work and reporting–which may well lead to some good reforms. )

The Institute for Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy has done important research in this area. Here are some of the more disturbing facts:

CEOs of defense contractors are paid more in four days than a general earns in a year; since September 11,

CEOs at top defense contractors have received annual pay gains between 200 percent to 688 percent; between 2002 and 2006, the seven highest paid defense contractor CEOs made nearly $500 million -

General Dyanmics’ CEO, Nicholas Chabraja, alone was paid $97.9 million, averaging $19.6 million per year.

David Lesar of Halliburton pocketed a mere $16 million per year during that period, and

Lockheed Martin’s Robert Stevens has cashed in on stock options to earn over $19 million so far this year.)

Many of the CEOs profitted from stock options as their companies’ stock prices soared with the increased revenues from the Defense Department.

Sarah Anderson, Director of the Global Economy Program at the Institute for Policy Studies, and Charlie Cray, Director of the Center for Corporate Policy, suggest that defense contractors’ CEO pay be addressed directly by conditioning contracts on reasonable pay practices. For example, requiring that the CEO not make more than 25 times the lowest paid worker within the company or, alternatively, not more than 10 times the pay of a military general. This could be combined with other eligibility criteria such as no companies that relocated offshore, have a history of significant violations, or do business with states that sponsor terrorism. (Also, the disclosure rules for defense contractors should be broadened. Right now, privately held corporations are not required to make public their executive compensation. Thus, major players like Bechtel and Blackwater can keep their pay figures secret.) But Anderson and Cray believe that CEO pay is a symptom of a much broader problem - one that will only be addressed if we recognize that the entire defense and war contracting system is out of control.

“Companies like Halliburton/KBR and Blackwater are only the tip of the iceberg,” Anderson says. “We now have contractors conducting intelligence background checks, processing Freedom of Information Act Requests, writing the President’s daily brief, helping run prisons like Abu Ghraib, etc.”

After years of almost zero oversight, these broader questions are finally being examined - at least to a degree. Certainly Representative Henry Waxman is doing his part as Chair of the House Committee on Government Oversight and Reform, looking at Iraq reconstruction corruption. And Senators Claire McCaskill and Jim Webb introduced legislation to establish a Commission on Wartime Contracting - a Truman-like Commission - to investigate waste and fraud in contracting. (Anderson and Cray suggest that the mandate for the Commission be broadened to look at the corporatization of war, intelligence, and other inherently governmental functions.) Other common-sense pieces of legislation include: the “Transparency and Accountability in Security Contracting Act”, introduced by Rep. David Price, to ensure that private security contractors like Blackwater are accountable; and two 2006 contract reform bills - Rep. Waxman’s “Clean Contracting Act” and Sen. Byron Dorgan’s “Honest Leadership in Government Contracting Act” - both bills would limit no-bid contracts, provide criminal sanctions for fraud, and address conflicts-of-interest, revolving door and other issues.

It is a systemic problem for a democracy to link corporate profits and war-making, and it has metastasized as this war has been increasingly privatized (there are now more contractors than soldiers in Iraq). Good small-d democrats need to keep watch on current legislation, hold our representatives accountable and demand that they take bolder action to bring this system to an end.

Katrina Vanden Heuvel is editor of The Nation.

We have been infested with the lowest form of vermin. Raw sewage is gushing through our blog. How can anyone be so low life and disgusting as Warren-G-Oatmeal, let_freedom_ring, Harpo*, butt man etc. The Republicans have reached the bottom of the barral with these creeps. DISGUSTING !!!!

Until the cleaning crew does their work...till the morrow

Good morning to anyone that wants to wade through troll "doo".

Morning J,

The trolls are disgusting aren't they.

So is President Asshole. I see where he is persisting in saying that the will veto the Child Health Bill. Our president is a disgusting piece of vermin. They are saying that the Democrats may not have the votes to override the veto. The repigs in the house are vermin too, walking lock step with President Asshole.

This is just another nail in the coffin of the repuke party. After 2008 it will take 10,000 years for them to again be a viable party.

Little Hitler got his way. I hope he is happy.

so the trolls were up all night either talking to it or them selves. what a pity and it all gets zapped in a few hours. true pinheads.

Speaking of useless twits, chimp's daughter is going around spewing crap about her worthless book. On top of that she is saying "I don't know why they are picking on my dad."

I know why, her dad is POS.

Why is the MSM playing the bitch up so much. All they ever did was make fun of Bill Clinton's daughter.

Morning gregg,

It's 56 here this morning and partly cloudy.

I'll bet cheney is turning his attention now to an attack on Curacao or Aruba. The Dutch have oil refineries there. That would teach Chavez.

I'll bet we the taxpayers will pay for the wedding of bush's bitch daughter. It will rival ray-gun's funeral which cost about $12 Million I believe. Maybe they can have a double wedding and cheney's bitch daughter can marry her bitch.

morning j and john. in the fifties here today as well. will get into the seventies. we need some rain.

and the real masters of war are:

U.S. Is Top Arms Seller to Developing World

By THOM SHANKER
Published: October 1, 2007

WASHINGTON, Sept. 30 — The United States maintained its role as the leading supplier of weapons to the developing world in 2006, followed by Russia and Britain, according to a Congressional study to be released Monday. Pakistan, India and Saudi Arabia were the top buyers.

The global arms market is highly competitive, with manufacturing nations seeking both to increase profits and to expand political influence through weapons sales to developing nations, which reached nearly $28.8 billion in 2006.

That sales total was a slight drop from the 2005 figure of $31.8 billion, a trend explained by the strain of rising fuel prices that prompted many developing states — except those that produce oil — to choose upgrading current arsenals over buying new weapons.

The report, “Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations,” was produced by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service, a division of the Library of Congress, and presents a number of interesting observations linking arms sales and global politics. For example, Russia has been a major supplier of weapons to Iran in past years, including a $700 million deal for surface-to-air missiles in 2005.

But anxieties over Iran’s nuclear program can be seen as having deterred Moscow from concluding significant new conventional arms deals with Iran in 2006, deals that could be viewed as overly provocative while the Security Council debates new sanctions on Iran.

At the same time, though, Russia continues to nurture an arms-trade relationship that is deeply disturbing to the Bush administration, by signing weapons deals with oil-rich Venezuela and its anti-American leader, Hugo Chávez.

The Russian agreements with Venezuela in 2006 included the sale of two dozen Su-30 fighter jets valued at more than $1 billion, along with attack and transport helicopters valued at more than $700 million.

Russia also sold Venezuela a large number of AK-series assault rifles in a deal that included a pledge to build a factory in Venezuela to produce those rifles and ammunition, together valued at more than $500 million.

“Venezuela’s populist president, Hugo Chávez, has taken a hostile approach to relations with the United States in recent years,” wrote Richard F. Grimmett, a specialist in national defense at the Congressional Research Service.

“Thus his decision to seek advanced military equipment from Russia is a matter of U.S. concern,” Mr. Grimmett wrote in the report. “Chávez appears embarked on an effort to make Venezuela an important military force in Latin America.”

The study makes clear also that the United States has signed weapons-sales agreements with nations whose records on democracy and human rights are subject to official criticism.

The announcement of major new arms agreements with Pakistan last year renewed debate over whether the Bush administration was elevating its counterterrorism priorities above its pledge to spread democracy around the world.

Pakistan was a major recipient of American arms sales in 2006, including the $1.4 billion purchase of 36 new F-16C/D fighter aircraft and $640 million in missiles and bombs. The deal included a package for $890 million in upgrades for Pakistan’s older versions of the F-16.

At the same time, the State Department’s own survey of global human rights in 2006 noted a variety of shortcomings in Pakistan’s record on human rights and democratization.

But the Bush administration has argued that it is important to maintain the support of a nuclear-armed Pakistan in the broader counterterrorism fight, in particular as Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders regroup in the rugged North-West Frontier Province along the Afghan border.

In 2006, the United States agreed to sell $10.3 billion in weapons to the developing world, or 35.8 percent of these deals worldwide, according to the study. Russia was second with $8.1 billion, or 28.1 percent, and Britain was third with $3.1 billion, or 10.8 percent.

Pakistan concluded $5.1 billion in agreements to buy arms in 2006. That total was followed by India with $3.5 billion in agreements and Saudi Arabia with $3.2 billion in deals.

The combined value of arms sales worldwide to both developed and developing nations in 2006 reached $40.3 billion, a decline of nearly 13 percent from 2005.

When combining totals for arms sales to developed and developing nations, the ranking of world arms dealers remained the same. The United States led with $16.9 billion, followed by Russia with $8.7 billion and Britain with $3.1 billion. The 2006 sales figures for all three nations were higher than their totals in 2005.

China plays an interesting role in the arms market, being both a purchaser of advanced air and naval weapons, from Russia, and as a supplier of less-expensive arms to developing nations.

Mr. Grimmett’s study uses figures in 2006 dollars, with amounts for previous years adjusted for inflation, to give a constant financial measurement.

gregg,

"The study makes clear also that the United States has signed weapons-sales agreements with nations whose records on democracy and human rights are subject to official criticism."

"The announcement of major new arms agreements with Pakistan last year renewed debate over whether the Bush administration was elevating its counterterrorism priorities above its pledge to spread democracy around the world."

Posted by gregg on October 1, 2007 at 07:14 AM

bush certainly does have his head up his ass. It's all about Dollars and oil with this asshole and his cronies.

Morning, all. These trolls are getting too disgusting. I can only wonder what their lives must be like. Are they a couple of frat boys with too much time on their hands? Hate filled KKK'ers? Because, if they are grown men and have resorted to harassing a couple of people they have singled out on the DNC blog, that is scary. Maybe the DNC should offer interventions - these guys really need help.

morning gregg,John, Cyn,

Did you see this one yet? One of Bush's TOP aids saying this shit to British MPS.

Take a gander at her photo !! Isn't that the Nazi Cross around her neck? And she looks like some kind of deranged creature!

I hate all Iranians, US aide tells MPs

Britsh MPs visiting the Pentagon to discuss America's stance on Iran and Iraq were shocked to be told by one of President Bush's senior women officials: "I hate all Iranians."

And she also accused Britain of "dismantling" the Anglo-US-led coalition in Iraq by pulling troops out of Basra too soon.

The six MPs were taken aback by the hardline approach of the Pentagon and in particular Ms Cagan, one of Mr Bush's foreign policy advisers.

She made it clear that although the US had no plans to attack Iran, it did not rule out doing so if the Iranians ignored warnings not to develop a nuclear bomb.

It was her tone when they met her on September 11 that shocked them most.

The MPs say that at one point she said: "In any case, I hate all Iranians

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=484762

Morning Cyn and Pam,

That thing around her neck looks like a German Iron Cross. She is the strangest looking crony among all the cronies bush has appointed. I wonder where bush dug her up.

How dare she speak to the MP's in such a manner. She can go to hell.

Sometimes it's nice to say good morning and comment on the post from late evening or early morning, BUT since they're all now fit for the toilet, sometimes it's not worth the effort.

These folks (the trolls) now know THEY are the ones down side, sooo they just want to make life miserable for all. Their party, way of life, Idiot-in-Chief, beliefs has been seen for what it is - trash. So now they want to disrupt sane and rationale folk who aren't being duped.

Does she wear the scarf on her neck to hide her adams apple? Maybe she is/was a man.

Morning, Johnedwrd and Pam.

John's right - that looks like the German Iron Cross of the Maltese Cross.

The use of the Iron Cross by neo-Nazis.
Sadly continuing the sinister dimension of the Iron Cross is the that this symbol is often displayed by neo-Nazi groups, especially as pendants. The Iron Cross without the swastika is also frequently used as a hate symbol in the same manner as the Nazi-era Iron Cross.

It is sometimes used for shock effect as it conjures up images of Nazi Germany and its military without being explicitly Nazi itself. In this guise, it is often displayed on clothing and accessories. This is the present sinister connotations of the so-called 'Maltese Cross' - which in fact is an Iron Cross as used by the Nazis and the present day neo-nazis.

And, it appears Condi has instituted a dress code for Repug Women in Gov't. That fed leather top with the side zipper is particularly fetching.

Ahh, that would be RED leather top. Geesh.

J, I know you are right, but wading through that crap can take it's toll. Sick ones, they are.

Wikipedia explains it all. This is where bush is getting his hard line bullcrap in Eastern Europe.
There have been some provocative incidents between Russia and ex-soviet Georgia the last few months. She is no doubt behind the crap of installing missiles in Poland and radar in Chechoslovakia.

"Debra L. Cagan has been affiliated with a variety of U.S. foreign policy based projects. She is a close advisor to United States president George W. Bush. Cagan gained notoriety after the Daily Mail newspaper claimed that during a meeting, with visiting British MPs, she retorted to "hate all Iranians." She then proceeded to accuse Britain of "dismantling" the Anglo-US-led coalition in Iraq by pulling troops out of Basra too soon.[1].

An advocate of increased westernisation in ex-Soviet states, Cagan met Georgian Defence Minister David Kezerashvili on 18 July 2007 to discuss bilateral cooperation. Cagan was one of the first to establish the Georgia Train and Equip Program (GTEP). This is an American program which greatly improved the process of development in Georgia’s professional army."

wikipedia

this is a must read for details on the lies on the War on Terror Farce..

The Mega-Lie Called the "War on Terror": A Masterpiece of Propaganda

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the state can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie ... The truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the state." --Joseph Goebbels, minister of propaganda in Nazi Germany, 1933-1945

Since Sept. 11, 2001, the administration of George W. Bush has told and repeated a lie that is "big enough" to confirm Joseph Goebbels' testimony. It is a mega-lie, and the American people have come to believe it. It is the "War on Terror

The military incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq were not done in retaliation for 9/11. The Bush administration had them clearly in mind upon taking office, and they were set in motion as early as Feb. 3, 2001. That was seven months prior to the attacks on the Trade Towers and the Pentagon, and the objectives of the wars had nothing to do with terrorism.

This is beyond dispute. The mainstream press has ignored the story, but the administration's congenital belligerence is fully documented in book-length treatments and in the limitless information pool of the internet.

Invading a sovereign nation unprovoked, however, directly violates the charter of the United Nations. It is an international crime. Before the Bush administration could attack either Afghanistan or Iraq, it would need a politically and diplomatically credible reason for doing so.

The fraudulence of the "War on Terror," however, is clearly revealed in the pattern of subsequent facts:

cont'd

http://www.alternet.org/waroniraq/63632/

isn't it funny how they claim they have to fight the terrorists in the states they are harbored, yet they have NEVER gone into Saudi Arabia and invaded, and that is where our 9/11 Terrorists came from!

The fascist bush administration must be ended NOW! or we are all going to be in deep trouble.

HONK HONK HONK!

Wikipedia doesn't say much about her background. I'll bet she has no experience whatsoever in the job she is doing. This is normal for bush to appoint someone with no training or experience to imporatant positions in government.

J, I know you are right, but wading through that crap can take it's toll. Sick ones, they are.

Posted by Cyn_NY on October 1, 2007 at 08:01 AM

they are very very sick. Plus heavy drinkers ! If they only knew. How many men do you know, who are sitting on an opposing political blog all night long posting hatred and anger? Only Nazi asshats ! Hitler would have loved these guys. You can just picture each one of them throwing women and children into those ovens!

I skip posts from midnight through 6:00AM each night, and my serenity is better for it.

Going to be another warm lovely day here in the Northeast. Dentist this morning, so will be in and out.

Oh, here is one of Bush's sucesses! No more Victory, just sucesses from now on.

BAGHDAD - Sixty-three U.S. military deaths were reported in September, the lowest monthly toll since July 2006, according to U.S. forces and a preliminary count by The Associated Press.

(Instead of 100 dead, merely 63! Like that is some kind of GOOD thing! Those 63 would be back here at home tossing the football around to their siblings, if Bush had not lied!)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071001/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Pam, That is a great article. I hope Nancy Pelosi reads it.

gregg and Cyn, Looks like NY State to lose 2 seats in the House ! You should advertise for more Illegal Immigrants there, to boost up your numbers! Electoral votes also are counted on population. State of Ct has a sanctuary city in New Haven, where they are issued ID's and can work out in the open!

"Because of their large populations of undocumented residents, Texas and Arizona will each get one extra seat in the U.S. House of Representatives after the 2010 Census, the Connecticut State Data Center projects in a report being released today. California will keep two seats it otherwise would have lost.
[...]Connecticut, which lost a seat in the last reapportionment, should keep the five it now has, but the Northeast as a whole will lose four - two in New York and one each in Massachusetts and Pennsylvania.

There's more than congressional clout at stake in the reapportionment: It also helps determine the makeup of the Electoral College. And the census itself influences everything from federal aid to the makeup of state legislatures. So as the 2010 Census approaches, attention is turning to the issue of whether it's fair to continue counting illegal immigrants.

http://www.myleftnutmeg.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=E8CAAF9214F5C5880619C16DF9DAD2EE?diaryId=8146

bush and cheney need to swing in the Hague after being convicted of war crimes.

Pam, That article speaks of world dominion. This explains why bush and cheney are building the largest embassy in the world in Baghdad near "their" oil fields.

Good Morning, ALL!

Pentagon Issues Blackwater New $92 Million Contract