So Bush's hand holding Saudi buddy, Bandar, says he told Bush about 9/11 and Bush did not listen to him either !!!!!!
Of course with the majority of those 9/11 terrorists coming from Saudi Arabia, one would assume they knew what they were talking about!

(CNN) -- Saudi Arabia could have helped the United States prevent al Qaeda's 2001 attacks on New York and Washington if American officials had consulted Saudi authorities in a "credible" way, the kingdom's former ambassador said in a documentary aired Thursday.

Prince Bandar said that Saudi intelligence was "actively following" most of the 9/11 plotters "with precision."

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/11/01/saudiarabia.terrorism/index.html

Secret source of phony Iraq intel outed

WASHINGTON - The Iraqi defector code-named "Curveball," whose false tales of biological weapons labs bolstered the U.S. case for war, wasn't the prominent chemical engineer he claimed to be and invented stories to help his case for asylum in Germany, a new report says.

"Curveball" is Rafid Ahmed Alwan, who did study chemical engineering but made poor grades and never managed a biological weapons facility, according to CBS' "60 Minutes," which will broadcast on Sunday a report describing how Alwan became a secret intelligence source.

Although known publicly only by his code name, Curveball has been repeatedly discredited by investigations of the United States' faulty prewar intelligence and became an embarrassment to U.S. spy agencies. A presidential intelligence commission found that Curveball, who mostly told his stories to German intelligence officials who passed them on to the U.S., was a fabricator and an alcoholic.

"60 Minutes" reports that Alwan arrived at a German refugee center in 1999 and began spinning his tales of a facility making mobile biological weapons in an effort to gain asylum. The ploy apparently achieved his goal, and Alwan is assumed to be living in Germany today under an assumed name.

Although German intelligence officials warned the CIA that Curveball's claims of mobile bioweapons labs were unreliable, and U.N. inspectors determined before the war began in 2003 that parts of his story were false, the Bush administration continued to promote the existence of such mobile labs for months after the invasion, until it was widely accepted that they could not be found.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_iraq_curveball

I think perhaps our party needs to do as Howard Dean said in 2003...activate your own base and fill them with enthusiasm to win.

Yes, he said those things.

But NOW he and the rest of our party are concentrating so much on Bush's base that those of us who are traditional Democrats, anti-war, pro-choice, friendly to the rights of the gay community...we have been left out.

Democratic party seeks to win evangelicals, but risks leaving behind their base.

They tell us we have to vote for Democrats to get good judges and good policy, yet today Feinstein and Schumer are voting for Mukasey, who as a judge said Bush could hold people for no reason and forever effectively.

If we give Bush his agenda as Democrats, how does that argument hold water?

I think some of the leaders need to start reading the blogs, including this one, and I think Governor Dean is one of those who need to do so.

I don't think he has been listening to the base.

UCONN game tonight, Dems.

may bbl , but maybe not. Depends on the score and the beers! :)

Hey the DIA was following the 911 hijackers with precision too. It wasn't called "dis-able danger" was it? Every day Taylor gets closer to judgement day,the funding trail to Bin Laden gets closer too. I hope it happens before Robertson kicks the bucket.

There was one other story this week that really rattled my hawkish chains, if you will. That was the story about the Foreign Service Officers (FSO's) from the State Department not wanting to serve in Iraq because it is too dangerous.

I understand that my view may be at odds with most of my fellow Democrats and I accept that. Also, I want to apologize in advance for the language you are about to read because some will find it offensive. So be it. That never stopped anyone else who posts here. Therefore, I now address the TSO's in the State Department unwilling to serve in Iraq.

(/rant on)

HEY YOU BUNCH OF PU**IES GET YOUR SORRY A**ES TO IRAQ AND DO YOUR FU**ING JOBS! YOUR PRESIDENT AND VICE-PRESIDENT STARTED THIS WAR. BOTH OF YOUR SECRETARIES OF STATES OVER THE PAST SEVEN YEARS HAVE PERPETUATED IT AND NOW YOU WANT TO BI*CH UP? ARE YOU F**KING KIDDING ME? WHERE THE F**K WHERE YOU DURING THE RUN UP TO THIS DEBACLE, HUH? NO WHERE TO BE FOUND AND NOW YOU'RE TRYING TO HIDE OUT AGAIN? F**K YOU YOU BUNCH OF COWARDS! THE NATION YOU SWORE TO PROTECT, PRESERVE, AND DEFEND IS CALLING! KISS THE WIFE, HUG THE KIDS, AND GET YOUR COLLECTIVE BI*CH A**ES ON THE PLANE FOR BAGHDAD OR TURN IN YOUR RESIGNATIONS! FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICER IS NOT THE JOB FOR A COWARD.

(/rant off)

Good night fellow Democrats. Keep the Faith and keep the faith. The liberal revolution is now.

Man falsely links son-in-law to al-Qaida

STOCKHOLM, Sweden -- A Swedish man accused of falsely telling U.S. authorities that his son-in-law had links to al-Qaida has been charged with defamation, a newspaper reported Friday.

Posted by BobVADemHawk-Biden2008 on November 2, 2007 at 07:44 PM

Bob, perhaps you should apply for the job. It would give your rant a bit more bite if you were actually willing to back up your hawkishness.

Texas oil fuels the White House - Bonnie Erbe

In April last year, Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., was asked why gas prices were surging ever closer to $3 per gallon. She told CNN: "We have two oilmen in the White House ... . The logical follow-up from that is $3-a-gallon gasoline. It is no accident. It is a cause and effect."

How prescient was her thinking? I'd pick prescient over predictable. Not that the war between congressional Democrats and Bush Republicans over the price of oil is anything new. It's been going on since President Bush took office. But as oil nears $100 per barrel, as gas exceeds $3 per gallon nationally and as heating oil and natural gas spiral skyward in anticipation of winter, debate is brewing once again over who is at fault.

Posted by Kristen on November 2, 2007 at 08:05 PM

I would like to think that my four years of service in the U.S. Army would count for something, Kristen. However, if Secretary Rice wants me to be a FSO in Iraq then all she has to do is to call her friends at the NSA, have me tracked down, and I can be ready to go in a hour or less. Perhaps I could do something to expedite the return of our armed forces from this debacle.

I know you may not understand the mentality but, there is a significant portion of the nation that believes service to country is only trumped by service to God. I am one of them.

I don't post here very often any more but I thought I'd drop in and cheer for Dennis Kucinich. On Tuesday, November 6 Dennis will introduce Articles of Impeachment in the House.

We all need to email and write and call our representatives in support of this. Then we can add Impeach Bush.

Three Cheers for Dennis!

Good evening everyone,
I hear Dennis is bringing articles of impeachment for VP Cheney...

Bob, there is a point where the best service to the country is standing up to those that refuse to stop the insanity of their actions and continue to put our kids and country in jeapordy.

It is high time people stopped and asked why in the hell they should put their life in harms way for a war based on lies and personal agendas.

You see honor in blindly following the President's orders...others find it far more honorable to stand up for the constitution and the lives of innocents and say enough is enough.

I am not sure I understand the argument by LadySmith, but it seems to be,
"we can torture them because they would torure us"

We know they use terrorist tactics to try an influence our actions. To do so, they target innocent women and children. Is it also okay (in you mind) for us to then use terrorist tactics in an attempt to keep them from attacking us?

Chicago, I've stopped trying to understand the fringe right. If you spend too much time down that rabit hole you are bound end up with a headache.

Posted by LadySmith on November 2, 2007 at 08:35 PM

This is a professionally maintained forum for political discussion. However, if you're thin-skinned then this is not the place for you.

I understand where you are coming from. I agree that Al-Qaeda, Hamas, nor any of the middle eastern countries will abide by the Geneva Conventions when it comes to treatment of American POW's.

But certainly you're not going to advocate that we, as Americans, lower our standards to those of terrorists, are you? If we do that by violating our own laws, after all we are a nation of law not men, disregard our duties under legally ratified international agreements, and engage in legally defined torture exercises then we have no moral footing to present that arguement abroad. What ever happened to that shining beacon on the hill? If we, as a nation, advocate torture, not only will we have lost our humanity but we'll have lost our very souls.

There is another issue that demonstrates why torture is so dangerous in the hands of this administration. I believe it has been well documented, that in many cases, when torture is used, the prisoner eventually provides the answer that is desired. With that in mind, it is important to consider how we got into the Iraq war.
Using torture, evidence can be created to support (for example) invading Iran. Torture can be a means for creating the evidence necessary to start another war.

Posted by Harpos_here_to_set_you_straight on November 2, 2007 at 09:00 PM

The United States does not intentionally target innocent persons. That is not to say that innocents are not injured or killed but it is not intentional and it is the inevitable part of any war. Unlike our enemies in this war, killing non-combatants to stir up outrage is not a tactic we use.

Sometimes, I think my dovish friends forget this. I seriously doubt there is a single soldier in Iraq, or elsewhere, who wakes up and thinks, "Gee, I wonder how many civilians I can kill today". If there is, then they are mentally ill and should be removed from the theatre immediately for treatment.

... yes, we should be willing to use this. If we have a prisoner, a known terrorist who has valuable information that, if obtained by the United States would prevent an attack against possibly hundreds or thousands of our citizens, then by all means we have an obligation to get that information...

Indeed we do have an obligation to get that information but at what cost? While I can agree with this tactic in the "ticking time bomb scenario", it should not be used as an every day practice. Again, are you really advocating that we lower ourselves to the standards of terrorists by engaging in legally defined acts of torture? There are better ways.

Not bad, Harpo. You swung at that pitch without resorting to your usual cheap shot tactics. I'll give you an infield single for this post.

Posted by Harpos_here_to_set_you_straight on November 2, 2007 at 09:00 PM

Harpo,
first, the argument by LadyHawk was that we can use torture because they would. I agree with you that the US should NEVER target and has NEVER targeted innocents. And we never should. Similarly, the US should not torture its prisoners regardless of what the terrorists do. We should be operating under our rules, not theirs. For if we do, we are no better than them.

Second, lets apply a little reality to your opinion that if we have the builder of the ticking time bomb in our hands we should torture him to save lots of American lives. Has this ever happened that you know of? I will attach some interesting reading on this exact issue. Reality is that we don't know if the person we have in custody has the information. Your scenario is unrealistic and oversimplified. IF we were to have that scenario somehow present itself, we don't need laws to make it legal.
Here are the links:

http://www.amnestyusa.org/askamnesty/torture200112.html

http://www.slate.com/id/2100543

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5517003

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/us_law/etn/primetime/safe.asp

Posted by Chicago on November 2, 2007 at 09:19 PM

Gee, that sounds familiar...

:-)

8. When you create a "ticking time bomb" exception, every situation becomes a ticking time bomb scenario
Because the ticking time bomb is a powerful idea, it is regularly cited as the reason coercive interrogation is needed; the prevalence of the use of this scenario on television contributes to the false idea that such a scenario is common. Experienced interrogators say that soldiers in the field rarely if ever can know, for certain, that a suspect has accurate information about an imminent threat and that torture or cruel treatment would be the best technique to elicit that information. Rather, interrogators say that torture has the possibility of incapacitating suspects – making them pass out, go into cardiac arrest – or even kill them. In these cases, the information will never be obtained.

Evening all good Dems,

Russia's Izvestia Reports and our MSM does not report:

President George W. Bush does not have the right to start a war against Iran without the approval of the United States Congress.

It warned his team of American senators.

According to Itar-Tass, a letter signed by 30 members of the Upper House, was sent on Thursday to name the head of the USA. Among them, two presidential aspirants for the post of the Democratic Party-Hilary Clinton and Christopher Dodd.

The signatories accused Bush of "provocative statements and actions by his administration in connection with a possible United States military action in Iran."

"We want to stress that Congress did not give any sanctions on a unilateral military action against Iran," suggest senators.

No offers, they said, Bush such authority and the so-called amendment Kila-Libermana.

This is a resolution adopted by the Senate calling for the White House to recognize the Corps "of the Islamic revolution" (part of the Iranian elite army) "foreign terrorist organization".

Opponents of the amendment argue that it provides good practice for the use of military force against Iran.

However, Hamas on Thursday Barack Obama of Illinois, the candidate for the presidency, unveiled a draft law which, in the words of his aides, "neutralizes" the amendment Kila-Libermana.

Earlier, in both Houses of Congress were submitted bills requiring prior consent of American lawmakers to use force against Iran.

This Congress, under the United States Constitution, the right to declare war. However, this right is restricted so much that the head of the White House as the supreme chief of the broad constitutional powers granted to wage war or to reflect the sudden attack.

But in the administration argue that the United States is not engaged in preparing for a potential armed conflict, and intend to resolve the Iranian nuclear issue through peaceful means.

The group of senators warned Bush about Iran

Posted by BobVADemHawk-Biden2008 on November 2, 2007 at 09:25 PM

Our responses crossed in the wires. I guess we think alike?

But I don't think it was an "infield single". I think it was a well hit ball that was fielded by the shortstop followed by a good pickup by the first baseman for an out.

I must say, however, that I agree that I am impressed by Harpo's rational and reasoned response.

Kucinch finally got balls. WHOOPEE!

IMPEACH THE MF! IT'S ABOUT TIME!

(Me jumping up and down) HeHeHeHeHeHeHeHe

Russia's Izvestia Reports:

A candidate for the presidency in the United States, Congressman Dennis Kusinich announced on Friday that on Tuesday 6 November at the meeting of the House of Representatives, Congress of the United States as a whole, he officially announced the making of the vote "privileged (priority) of resolution" to begin impeachment proceedings Vice U.S. President Richard Cheney.

"There comes a point for impeachment. Millions of citizens throughout the country require that Congress curbed abuse of power by the vice president, "says in a statement circulated in Washington Kucinich.

"Vice President continues to use his office to continue the occupation of Iraq appeals and plunge our country into a state of war with Iran. If the vice president succeeds, his actions would result in catastrophic consequences for decades, "said presidential candidate dollars.

-----------more-------------

Dennis Kusinich vote on a resolution to impeach Cheney

Posted by LadySmith on November 2, 2007 at 09:28 PM

Then you have a rare insight I have seen few Democrats express.

You think it is unfair to be attacked by Democrats on this democratic site even as you make these kind of incendiary remarks? Maybe if you toned down your anti-democrat rhetoric, and kept your arguments on the issue, you would have less problems. Are you a republican?

Here in lies the heart of the argument. We have laws against torture but the interpretation of those laws is the issue. If our lawmakers and justice systems rule that a method such as waterboarding does not violate the law then it can be used. Until they can definitely say it's torture then it's legal.

Very convenient. George Bush and Dick Cheney get Alberto Gonzo to claim waterboarding is not torture, and suddenly it is legal.
Puh lease.

Posted by Harpos_here_to_set_you_straight on November 2, 2007 at 09:45 PM

Harpo,
Go and read the information at the links.

Torture as defined by are laws. If waterboarding is a legally restricted form of torture than no. But, it isn't at this time. It is the opinion of some that it is but not law.

I could be wrong, but I think torture is defined by international law and the geneva convention to which we agreed.

If this scenario did develop, and I have no doubt that this is not are far-fetched as you would like to make it seem like, we would have to assume that the parties responsible for this decision would be using good judgment based on intelligence that would indicate a need for this level of action. As far as it being simplistic, it was given as a base argument, not an essay outlining every conceivable detail that would satisfy your reading pleasure.

read the links. It is far-fetched even though you don't want to believe it. As far as the parties using good judgement, you obviously have not been keeping track of the Bush administration and its impact on FEMA, the CIA, FDA, DOT, etc.

Good evening, all.

I find it hard to seriously consider any arguments by conservatives who advocate immediate action in ticking bomb situations...when they refuse to acknowledge that something needs to be done about our quickly warming planet.

Torturing people to obtain bogus intel to use in starting another war in the Middle East is not fighting terrorism or facing any of the very real ticking bombs confronting our nation.

It's a perverted diversion designed by the GOP to stop any action on the enormous fiscal, immigation, health delivery, and energy problems which started with the advent of the Reagan era.

The boggie man has been at our door for more than 30 years. That's when scientists started ringing the climate change alarm bells and tying them to our dependence on foreign oil and fossil fuels.

It's a good thing you Republicans are so into torture, because that's just what Mother Nature has in mind for you if we continue to abuse the environment for profit and power.

There will be no fresh water left for waterboarding (or anything else)if we don't take steps to cool down the planet.

Please don't feed the trolls. They do not need any help at making themselves look as the arses that they are, just laugh at their outrageous posts and continue about your business. Thank you.

acknowledge that something needs to be done about our quickly warming planet.
Posted by SandyH on November 2, 2007 at 10:45 PM

Sandy, relax, something is being done. Oil's at just under $100 bucks a barrel, gasoline soon to be $3.00 - $4.00 a gallon...it's too funny that as our environment is nearing demolition one of the major causes of the demolition, oil, is running dry. Think about it!

Bye-bye Harpo!!

Diane Feinstein sold us out when she was the key vote against Hillary Clinton's universal medical bill when Clinton was president, and now she is selling out to support Mukasey.

We need to give the world a clear statement that our Congress will not tolerate torcher, yet Feinstein is without that moral fiber, and if she votes for Mukasey, this will be her worst vote, as she should know better. We must either purge her kind from the Democratic party, or we must organize a new part, one that will take the moral highroad and not pander to big money interests.

We must load up her mailbox to vote against Mukasey.

Diane Feinstein sold us out when she was the key vote that killed Hillary Clinton's first universal medical plan when Clinton was president, and now she is selling out to support Mukasey.

We need to give the world a clear statement that our Congress will not tolerate torcher, yet Feinstein is without that moral fiber, and if she votes for Mukasey, this will be her worst vote, as she should know better. We must either purge her kind from the Democratic party, or we must organize a new part, one that will take the moral highroad and not pander to big money interests.

We must load up her mailbox to vote against Mukasey.

WakeUpAmerica on November 3, 2007 at 12:25 AM

How's about Chuck Schumer as well? Double up on that turncoat!

Good night, folks! Time to zip up the sleeping bag!!;~p

So let's see if I understand the Democratic positions in light of this afternoon's sellout by Feinstein and Schumer...

The occupation of Iraq is bad and we need to vote Democrats into office so that they can stop it which they want to do, but don't.

Illegal wiretapping is, well, illegal but they vote to continue it.

Torture is bad but it's OK to confirm an attorney general who refuses to acknowledge that waterboarding is torture so that nobody has to hold Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld responsible for torture.

Democrats are sure sounding a lot like Republicans these days.

Maybe we should all send some kneepads to our congress persons.

John Fund Lies. John Fund covered up the e-voting machine fraud with lies. John Fund is the biggest hack ever. He has zero credibility. I think the WSJ booted him for lies, and now he's at some joke like onlineopjournal. No wonder you are so ill-informed. You get your opinions from John "Fraud" Fund. HAHAHA.

Kucinich would beat Rudy. Gravel would beat Rudy.
He's a great guy. I sure we don't run against Rudy.
If he puts all his ex-wives on the campaign trail the Democrats would be in trouble.

Schumer and Fienstien are turncoats. If the nominee can not answer a simply questions, he can not be trusted. I'm very disappointed in Chuck and Diane.

The Mormons think the Garden of Eden is in Missouri. I wonder where they are talking about... Branson MO, Mexico MO, or Lake of the Ozarks?

Mitt the Flip is sure to rally the fundamentalists.
Maybe the Democrats can run a wiccan to put up a good fight for the fundamentalist vote.

rudy, thy middle name is hubris...

Loyal to Kerik, Giuliani Missed Warning Signs

If the rise of Bernard B. Kerik under the mentorship of Rudolph W. Giuliani was meteoric, the speed of his fall was breathtaking.

In December 2004, President Bush nominated Mr. Kerik, a former New York police commissioner, to head the federal Department of Homeland Security. Seven days later, Mr. Kerik withdrew as a nominee.

A cascade of questions followed about his judgment as a public official, not least that he had inappropriately lobbied city officials on behalf of Interstate Industrial, a construction firm suspected of links to organized crime. Mr. Giuliani defended Mr. Kerik, a friend and business partner, whom he had recommended to the Bush administration. But he also tried to shield himself from accusations that he had ignored Mr. Kerik’s failings.

“I was not informed of it,” Mr. Giuliani said then, when asked if he had been warned about Mr. Kerik’s relationship with Interstate before appointing him to the police post in 2000.

Mr. Giuliani amended that statement last year in testimony to a state grand jury. He acknowledged that the city investigations commissioner, Edward J. Kuriansky, had told him that he had been briefed at least once. The former mayor said, though, that neither he nor any of his aides could recall being briefed about Mr. Kerik’s involvement with the company.

But a review of Mr. Kuriansky’s diaries, and investigators’ notes from a 2004 interview with him, now indicate that such a session indeed took place. What is more, Mr. Kuriansky also recalled briefing one of Mr. Giuliani’s closest aides, Dennison Young Jr., about Mr. Kerik’s entanglements with the company just days before the police appointment, according to the diaries he compiled at the time and his later recollection to the investigators.

The additional evidence raises questions not only about the precision of Mr. Giuliani’s recollection, but also about how a man who proclaims his ability to pick leaders came to overlook a jumble of disturbing information about Mr. Kerik, even as he pushed him for two crucial government positions.

“Rudy can fall for people big time, and sometimes qualifications are secondary to loyalty,” said Fran Reiter, a former Giuliani deputy mayor who now supports Hillary Clinton. “If he gets it in his head he trusts you, he is extremely loyal.”

Mr. Giuliani has routinely met loyalty with loyalty, standing by political allies and friends in their darkest hours. Giuliani Partners, for example, his consulting firm, employs a high school friend, Msgr. Alan Placa, despite allegations that he sexually molested young men years ago.

Mr. Giuliani has said he believes in his friend, who has denied the allegations and was not criminally charged.

In Mr. Kerik’s case, by the time Mr. Giuliani recommended him for the federal job, his administration knew that Mr. Kerik had acted on behalf of Interstate Industrial. It also knew that he had drawn criticism for a range of other incidents, from sending detectives to search for his lover’s cellphone to using officers to research his autobiography.

Mr. Kerik, who declined to speak about his troubles, now faces possible indictment on a range of federal felony charges, including perhaps tax evasion and bribery, stemming in part from his acceptance of $165,000 in renovations to his Bronx apartment paid for by Interstate. In June 2006, he pleaded guilty in the Bronx to state misdemeanor charges relating to the same renovations.

Though Mr. Giuliani’s rivals for the Republican presidential nomination have not made an issue of Mr. Kerik, his indictment could be a major embarrassment for Mr. Giuliani.

Mr. Giuliani, who also declined to comment, still vigorously defends Mr. Kerik’s performance as police commissioner. He told the grand jury that Mr. Kuriansky concluded that nothing in Mr. Kerik’s background, including his ties to Interstate, precluded his appointment as police commissioner.

But Mr. Giuliani now acknowledges that he should have re-examined his friend before recommending him to the White House and that his recommendation had indeed been a mistake.

In 2000, more than half the mayor’s cabinet had opposed Mr. Kerik’s appointment to be police commissioner. His detractors had noted, among other concerns, that Mr. Kerik did not have a college degree, a department requirement at the time for captains and above.

Mr. Giuliani waved off the dissenters. “I believe that the skill I have developed better than any other was surrounding myself with great people,” Mr. Giuliani wrote in his 2002 book, “Leadership.”

rudy swooned when he met bernie, and bernie knew he could play the ghoul for all he was worth politically

For some reason and I don't have the first clue what this mysterous reason is the Senate Democrats are going to let bush win again on the nomination for Attorney General. The worst most corrupt and incompetant President in our history gets his way once again. WTF is wrong with this picture? Why do the Democrats roll over every time bush "demands" something? The Democratic "leadeship" should follow Nancy Reagan's advice and JUST SAY NO just once for crying out loud!!!! This is pathetic and the fools in the Democratic Party who continually support bush should lose their jobs but I don't see this happening. In my own worthless and ignored opinion our country needs to take money out of politics and initiate publicly funded elections so the corporate shills in power get fired so we can go back to a true "represenrative" government. I can't afford to bribe these politicians and this fact gives them the excuse to ignore my thoughts and opinions they only cater to the rich bastards that bankroll their campaigns. AARRGG!!

peace

condi has done such a great job with the state department. her team will follow her anywhere....well anywhere in maryland. maybe condi should base her office in iraq to model the behavior she wants her staff to exhibit.

Good morning fellow Democrats.

I heard the explanation as to why Sen. Schumer (D-NY) and Sen. Feinstein (D-CA) voted for Judge Mukasey. Apparently, when the judge was nominated for the bench, his sponsor was none other than Sen. Schumer. Rumor has it that the senior senator from NY felt uncomfortable having orignally sponsored the judge to the bench then voting no on his confirmation as Attorney General. Sen. Feinstein is merely holding his political hand so he would not be the only Democrat to vote for Judge Mukasey.

Please do not shoot the messenger. I merely report what I heard.

By COREY WILLIAMS
Associated Press Writer

DETROIT (AP) -- Six men of Iraqi descent who were heading home from doing training for the U.S. military have sued American Airlines, saying employees detained and publicly humiliated them after another passenger voiced suspicions.

The men, who sued in U.S. District Court in Detroit alleging racial discrimination, say airline employees grounded their Aug. 28 flight from San Diego to Chicago and detained them, believing they were security risks.

The men, some of whom are U.S. citizens, were returning to the Detroit area after training Marines at California's Camp Pendleton on Iraqi culture when another passenger expressed concerns to guards partly because she heard the men speaking Arabic.

After taxiing from the gate, pilots returned the plane to the terminal. The six men were segregated and detained while the airline helped more than 100 passengers find hotel rooms, according to a prepared statement from the men...

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MI_IRAQI_PASSENGERS_LAWSUIT_MIOL-?SITE=MIDTF&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Can you believe that American citizens get treated like this in their own country? Does GOP incompetence know no bounds? Also, why is it harder for a bona fide citizen to board an airplane in the continental U.S. then it is for an illegal to cross either of our borders? Oh God, I'm starting to sound like dlesterpoet with all of these rhetorical questions.

morning bob and wldj. i am not sure if it matters who is the ag. after all they will work for bush and will obviously do whatever he wants them to. the days of elliot Richardson and Archibald cox are long gone from this country and there are no such heroes on the scene. we are now led by sycophants, self promoters, pimps and various other lower life forms. the idiotic length of the campaign to get a candidate has resulted in a level of exhaustion and back biting in the process that makes me wonder if the democrats have any idea what the hell they are doing and if they will hand the election to rudy or some other neo-facist sack of shit. maybe we all should just get drunk for six months or so and then start the presidential race all over.

here is an interesting fact. in 2001 there was one state in the united states where over 25% of the population met the criteria for being described as obese ( of course that state is mississippi know for leading the country in so many demographic categories ). now there are about thirty states where over a quarter of the population is having trouble seeing their shoes!! so it could turn out that the bush years will be known as the "reign of fat" in future history books. perhaps we should spend a little time today hypothesizing about why this has happened:

the bloating of america

new thread.

Good morning Dems

If you have not called, emailed, faxed your Senators as yet, regarding Mukasey, then please do so. IN fact do all of the above. It does not matter if they are Dem or Republican, if a Senator cares about the troops, about America's image in the world, about looking humane instead of blood thirsty , then they should vote NO. This is not the only issue with Mukasey. As gregg says he will prove to be just another Bush rubber stamper like Gonzalez was. There is no doubt about that. What part of the American public does not really give a damn if there is an AG in office or not do they not understand. One that will merely help destroy more of our Constitution,country, PR, etc is not better than none at all.

Here is the website:

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm?OrderBy=state&Sort=ASC

ps, it is mind boggling to see people who come in here who really have no idea what this is all about rant and rave that the Koran says these people's mission is to kill Americans???? (uhh, I don't think so) That any form of Torture is fine because they would do it to our men?? That torture will produce all kinds of wonderful information because a man being drowned will tell us everything---(even if he knows nothing! ) Ask John McCain his opinion on what he and others told the VietCon when being hurt ! Whatever it took to stop the pain, especially if it were lies.

When will these people say "let peace begin with us." let us be the first to show humanity, and an effort to reach across the table to the millions and millions of people in these countries who want nothing more than peace themselves. When will they stop and understand the polls that say Iraqis would prefer Saddam Hussein back in office than have Americans occupying their country and causing a Civil War? How bad can our presence be seen?

I just don't get the mentality, no matter how hard I try. Wanting Peace in the world is NOT a weakness ! We do not have to be the Bullies, the Thugs to appear strong.

ooops, new Open Thread..........

By STEPHANIE MURPHY
Daily News Business and Real Estate Writer

Friday, November 02, 2007

Defying national trends, sales of single-family homes in Palm Beach increased in the first three-quarters of the year, as did the median and average sales price.

Those are among the findings of The Evans Report for the first nine months of the year, compared with the same period of 2006. Real estate attorney Les Evans said he arrived at the results by analyzing closing documents filed in Palm Beach County. His report includes private sales not recorded by the Multiple Listing Service.

The report shows 114 sales during the three quarters, compared with 111 for that period of 2006. The median price of $3.81 million was up 24.2 percent.

Also significant, the island crossed a new threshold this year, when the average price of a Palm Beach house moved above $5 million. The average price of $5.22 million is a 14.6 percent increase over $4.56 million in 2006....

http://www.palmbeachdailynews.com/news/content/business/EVANSREPORT1102.html

Ladies and gentlemen, I present you with the typical beneficiary of the Bush tax cuts. Can any of you imagine paying this much for a house or the real estate taxes associated with such? Then again, considering we're talking about Palm Beach, and we know they don't know how to count too well in FL...