Thank you and good morning Michael!

Good morning, hopeful Democrats and curious moderates and Independents.

Why is General Petraeus hiring Sunni mercenaries in Iraq? Why is he arming this new Iraqi Army and allowing them to operate separate from the Iraqi Shiite government?

Iraqi Shiite cautions on armed groups By HAMID AHMED, Associated Press Writer

BAGHDAD - The leader of the largest Shiite political party in Iraq told about 5,000 faithful who gathered Friday for Eid al-Adha prayers that U.S.-backed anti-al-Qaida armed groups — mostly comprised of Sunnis — should be on the side of government forces and not try to replace them...

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071221/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq

Is the Gates's Two Iraqis strategy? It's pissing off the folks who won the election.

And the Kurds aren't happy with Gate's policy toward Turkey...Don't Ask Don't Tell us if you are going to strike the locals within Northern Iraq.

morning again, {{JohnBoy}}}

I made a post to you on prior thread, and I hope you saw that I did not ever intentionally ignore you ! You are one of my favorites here.

Just very busy these days, so only hit and run a lot of times.

You have a wonderful holiday, if I do not catch up with you over the next few days !!!

The candidate — egad! — has wrinkles

Meanwhile, it has become retro, maybe even feminazi, to notice the teensiest whiff of sexism. Hillary was accused of playing the gender card for merely mentioning that presidential politics was an "all-boys club." If you complain about the heat, you'll end up back in the kitchen.

So when Limbaugh talks about the older woman as a kind of Doriana Gray — a figure of such terrifying crone-ishness that we don't even want her portrait in the Oval Office — we are required to acknowledge the talk of John Edwards' hair and Barack Obama's swimsuit. Not to mention the grimacing Giuliani and the robotic Romney.

Well, we do notice what both genders are wearing. But we have not yet passed the Equal Right to Be Scrutinized Amendment. Haggard still comes from old hag, which comes from witch, which rhymes with you know what. If Romney tears up, he's sensitive; if Hillary cries, she's toast.

The WH and Bush/Cheney have been very busy these days shredding, burning, destroying.

WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has made its position clear in legal filings and now gets a chance to say it to a judge in open court: Hold off on inquiring about the destruction of CIA videotapes that showed suspected terrorists being interrogated.

U.S. District Judge Henry H. Kennedy ordered the hearing Friday over the objection of the Justice Department after lawyers raised questions about the possibility that other evidence also might have been destroyed.

Kennedy, appointed to the trial court by President Clinton, is considering whether to delve into the matter and, if so, how deeply.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071221/ap_on_go_pr_wh/cia_videotapes_courts

BTW, Hillary could win big with Clark or Richardson too, IMO.

Posted by Big_Yellow_Dog on December 21, 2007 at 08:15 AM

BYD,

I agree. Clark and Richardson add a lot of credibility.

Hi, John Boy,

Have you found a publisher for you book yet? I figured things were moving along, since we see you posting more often lately.

Gotta run. later.

A bit of a local take on Presidential race.

White House race here is wide open

Posted by PamB on December 21, 2007 at 09:25 AM
Yes I saw it,...love and kisses!....heeeheee...that ought to get you in trouble!....I'm waiting with baited breath (Little shrimps on little hooks hanging from my lower lip) for your post on Frosty. He is obsessed with you,.....how come you're so blessed?....heehee....John Boy....

Posted by SandyH on December 21, 2007 at 09:37 AM....
Thanks for asking Sandy,...yes, it should be publishes in 60-90 days....have a great day and a Merry Christmas if I don't speak with you before then.

Posted by Kristen on December 21, 2007 at 09:32 AM

Hi, Krisen.

Strictly speaking as an old hag, everyone has warts (sometimes in places we can't see). Anybody pointing out the imperfections of others has more than a few themselves that they are hiding, IMO.

Have a merry, busy day all.

Personal Touch for Richardson in Envoy Role

A kind of at-large dealmaker, Mr. Richardson does not specialize in any one region of the world, and he has no landmark achievement — no Dayton Accords or Middle East breakthrough — to his name. He is not associated with one school of foreign policy thinking or set of positions; in fact, he says he was wrong about the first invasion of Iraq (which he opposed), the second (which he supported), as well as the North American Free Trade Agreement, which he helped pass.

Instead, Mr. Richardson practices diplomacy as contact sport, whizzing from country to country, conflict to conflict, and charming, insulting, even touching his way through negotiations. (After he persuaded Saddam Hussein in 1995 to release two American aerospace workers who had wandered into Iraq, Mr. Richardson reached over to clap the dictator on the arm, causing Mr. Hussein’s men to reach for their guns.)

He is a singular creation: a governor whose mobile phone trills with calls from North Korean officials; a former United Nations ambassador who wore cowboy boots and told bawdy jokes; a negotiator who delivers tough messages cloaked in personal warmth; and a freelance troubleshooter who claims to have won release for Cuban political prisoners by needling Fidel Castro, in Spanish, first about his country’s baseball pitching and then ethnic solidarity.

John Boy, It is because I was here before Sally/Frosty, and because he cannot dispute my Truthful posts ! So it makes him mad. ;0

He thinks somehow posting the same old picture he stole from Schubert's blog, when Schubert startled me in TN with his flash bulb, will somehow make up for the fact that he and his family are all Dawgs ! For a guy brought up in such a strict Evangelical background, boy did he Stray from WWJD !!

time for shower and a bite to eat. bbl,

Hi Sandy, I'm sure I missed you as you were dashing to start your day.

You are not an old hag, by any stretch of the word.

Have a great day!

Posted by Kristen on December 21, 2007 at 09:51 AM
Great post,...Thanks...I really like him,...I don't think he is going to make the presidential ticket (I may be wrong) but if not, I sure hope he is Secretary of State.....John Boy....

Santa Delivers 37,000+ Copies of Constitution to Bush - AlterNet

December 20, 2007, Washington, DC - This morning, Santa Claus (in the person of noted constitutional lawyer Bill Goodman) drove his sleigh to the White House to deliver thousands of copies of the U.S. Constitution to President Bush.

Americans from all over the country - more than 37,000 of them - asked that a copy of the Constitution be delivered to the President in their name and cordially requested that he make time in his busy schedule to read it.

Voting Rights Activists Win Big Cases in Florida and Arizona

A series of court decisions this week supporting voting rights advocates in Florida and Arizona may bode well for more open and accountable elections in 2008.

That is because the cases involve major trend-setting aspects of elections: whether you can block new laws that disenfranchise thousands of new voters because of errors in state databases, and whether you can catch partisans who alter electronic vote counts. In both instances, courts sided with voting rights advocates against state and local officials.

The decisions are part of a pattern of recent rulings where draconian state election laws passed immediately after the 2004 election are being overturned. Those laws, passed by Republican-controlled legislatures to stop "voter fraud," or people impersonating other voters, affected voter registration drives and voter ID requirements. The other piece of this pattern is many states, and now a court in Arizona, are demanding new levels of accountability in paperless electronic voting systems.

Evidence Mounts of White House Ties to New Hampshire Phone Jamming Scheme

Phone records obtained in a civil suit brought against the NH GOP by the NH Democratic Party show that "Tobin made 22 calls to the White House political office in the 24 hours before and after the jamming" while the Republican National Committee has paid over $6 million in legal fees for Tobin.

i see marine is hillary bashing again. apparently he wants us all to stop bashing his candidate but feels he has the right to keep attacking mine. well, what is he a republican. that's their tactics. if you continue to grip about hillary i most certainly conplain about obama.
afterall, he was the one who started this slicing and dicing. there is a timeline out there that is documented, maybe you should read it.
your candidate, triangulates with the best of them. read his voting record.

During his speech, Mr. Bush complained that there were too many earmarks in the legislation that was passed. Since I am dead set against earmarks by either political party, I have to agree with him up to a point. Where I oppose Mr Bush even daring to say anything about earmarks is the fact that during the first six years of his administration, there were over 200 billion dollars of Republican earmarks in the legislation he signed off on. Not only did Mr. Bush not veto any of the Republican earmarked legislation, he only spoke out about it, very weakly, on one occasion. So, earmarks are ok as long as they are Republican ear marks. He didn't veto any legislation until it became Democratic sponsored legislation. Me thinks that Mr. Bush is a hypocrite!

i was listening to the washington journal on c-span. one caller wanted more information on the supposed love child of john edwards. is there any truth in this. if there is, that is definitely something the pugs will use against us.
of coarse, they said it had been on drudge. is there any truth to it.

Congress Subpoenas Ex-CIA Official

The Associated Press

Congressional panel subpoenas ex-CIA official who ordered destruction of interrogation tapes.

Washington - The House Intelligence Committee issued a subpoena Thursday for Jose Rodriguez, the former CIA official who directed that secret interrogation videotapes of two suspected terrorists be destroyed.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107K.shtml

Posted by connfloyd on December 21, 2007 at 10:38 AM

I would hope that Democrats here wouldn't be quick to pass on speculation and rumor...especially when the original source is the National Enquirer.

Hello. I can understand why these people are objecting to the rebuilding of housing that was so badly damaged by Katrina.

Violent protests over housing erupt in New Orleans

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (CNN) -- Protests against a City Council plan to tear down low-income New Orleans housing turned ugly Thursday, with police using pepper spray and stun guns to clear a crowd angry they weren't allowed into City Hall for the vote.

The City Council voted unanimously to greenlight the demolition of the city's four largest public housing developments, saying they are too damaged by Hurricane Katrina to allow residents back into them.

But many in New Orleans, including former residents of the developments, say they fear the local and federal governments will not guarantee similarly affordable housing be built in their place -- calling the demolition an effort to move poor people out of the city.

At about 11 a.m., several protesters were dragged out of council chambers after scuffles broke out among people who packed the room, and members of the crowd booed council members and shouted insults at them.

see, these are the guys that certain little chicken hawks don't even want to have a Trial, because it may be found out that they committed no crimes ! God forbid it is found that the US wrongly rounded up Innocent men!

Bitterness Apparent as US Releases Iraqi Prisoners
McClatchy Newspapers

Baghdad - When Leila Nasser was six months pregnant, U.S. soldiers burst into her house and wrestled away her husband, Mohammed Amin, who was asleep on the roof, trying to escape the summer heat.

This week, Nasser waited outside what's now called the "reconciliation hall" in Baghdad's Jihad neighborhood for Amin to appear. In her arms she cradled her year-old son, whom she'd named Moubin, the Iraqi word for apparent.

"I called him Moubin hoping that his father would appear for his eyes," she said. Moubin had never met his father.

Now Amin was one of 15 detainees who'd be released as part of a reconciliation program that the U.S. military's 1st Battalion, 28th Infantry Regiment put together in hopes of easing tensions in this divided neighborhood. But the release showed how far reconciliation has to go.

More than 25,000 Iraqis are now in U.S. detention facilities. The Jihad reconciliation committee of Sunni and Shiite Muslims had requested that 562 men be released. Last month, 48 people were released, but 40 more were detained.

Most of those held are never charged with crimes. Sometimes Iraqis are detained because of a tip from a neighbor or because a few cables and cleaning agents are mistaken for bomb-making material.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107P.shtml

Posted by connfloyd on December 21, 2007 at 10:38 AM
The trolls have been commenting about that,quoting their source as The National Inquirer. I pointed out to them that the National Inquirer has no creditability and they responded that it is under new management now and is first with the best, ie factual stories. And there was a troll here yesterday that started the same thing as well as a long bash on Hillary and Bill. He got flushed promptly. My thoughts on this are that this has the finger prints of Carl Rove all over it. The Reptiles do not want to face Edwards, they would rather face Clinton or Obama. So,they are smearing Edwards now to get him out of the way. Big Yellow Dog had an excellent post on this earlier.

Now the Democrats must put a Stop to this push of Religion fanaticism onto guys entering the mililtary!!!

For US Army soldiers entering basic training at Fort Jackson Army base in Columbia, South Carolina, accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior appears to be as much a part of the nine-week regimen as the vigorous physical and mental exercises the troops must endure.

That's the message directed at Fort Jackson soldiers, some of whom appear in photographs in government issued fatigues, holding rifles in one hand, and Bibles in their other hand.

(Yeah, right ! Just what Jesus would do!)

Military Evangelism Deeper, Wider Than First Thought

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107J.shtml

thanks for answering the question. i was shocked when i heard it on c-span. well, i should have realized that it was rove. my first choice is hillary, but my second is edwards. just wanted to make sure there are no surprises in the general. if there aren't any of coarse rove will make them up.

also on c-span today, a caller wanted to know how bill and hillary were allowed to steal the furniture in the white house when they left. they also ask me about this at my very red job. does anyone have any answers out there?

Take a look at the TPM Book Club this week. Several people from the Dean Campaign have written books about the significance of it. Links to the books and comments by the suthors.

TPM Cafe Book Club....books about the legacy of the Dean campaign.

An example from Tom Swan of the Lamont campaign...

"It is difficult to write about the legacy of the Dean campaign because the forces that catapulted that campaign are still actively trying to change the public discourse and it will be years before the real impact can be measured. It should be noted that much of the leadership of the Lamont campaign was active in Connecticut on the Dean campaign and had even spent some time in New Hampshire for the primary."

Posted by connfloyd on December 21, 2007 at 11:06 AM
I'm not qualified to comment on that. That was before I became politically active. Don't know anything about it. Maybe Pam or Kristen could help you, I just don't know.

Good morning,

I was a juror in a criminal trial that finished last night. First time juror, and it was quite an experience.

And I get the feeling that it is more than just a minority that are dumbstruct by figuring out that we have an unelected, illegal administration that makes or breaks laws at will while the rest of us have no such options. The rule of law is a travesty until we can get the checks and balances back into the system, and no one is seen as being above the law.

Jurors will have little reason to follow the law in their rulings if they see the people in high offices as criminals in contempt.

Posted by connfloyd on December 21, 2007 at 10:38 AM

A comeback for repugs who are asserting that there is a child born out of wedlock: (if it is true, it's much too late for JE to have kept it in his trousers)

"It is much better for the mother to have the child than to have aborted this soul."

Point them to Abraham. His wife gave him her maid servant to bear his child, then had her own as well. Great nations were born as the result. And I do believe the brother nations are still spatting.

Amen, Tom, Amen!

Military Evangelism Deeper, Wider Than First Thought

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107J.shtml

Posted by PamB on December 21, 2007 at 11:00 AM

Holy sheep, Batman! The Cult of the Crusading Atom Bomb. Brainwash that God is on your side and condones militant action, and the victims can be percieved as beasts, ready for the slaughter. Ethnic cleansing of the highest regligious order.

Hi Essie, you dancin' in your jammies yet or still?...My 95 Ford Taurus runs good but it still reguirs gasoline, so I think I'll take "Buddy" and go for a ride and try to get some petrol. It's a beautiful day here in Spring, Texas. I"ll chat with you all later...maybe....I should get back to my writing,..so maybe not....John Boy....

Good Morning, ALL!

connie, as per that Edwards love child rumor (which has been recycled from last Summer, BTW) the Lawyer for the father has issued a Public Statement, which is the first step before asking for a Cease & Desist Order.

Statement On Behalf Of Andrew Young December 19, 2007

As confirmed by Ms. Hunter, Andrew Young is the father of her unborn child.

Senator Edwards knew nothing about the relationship between these former co-workers, which began when they worked together in 2006.

As a private citizen who no longer works for the campaign, Mr. Young asks that the media respect his privacy while he works to make amends with his family.

Pamela J. Marple
Attorney for Mr. Young

As for the stealing of furniture, that was debunked years ago. The GSA said that the White House was left in better shape after 8 years of Clinton's administration with only normal wear and tear compared with 4 years of Pappy Bush's reign of error, where there was extensive damage when the Pugs had to leave 4 years early early.

Posted by connfloyd on December 21, 2007 at 11:06 AM

Why bother even responding. By now we all have come to the realization that facts don't mean bupkiss to the republicans. The GAO wrote a report in 2001 that found no evidence that anything was amiss at the WH after President Clinton left.

That's the message directed at Fort Jackson soldiers, some of whom appear in photographs in government issued fatigues, holding rifles in one hand, and Bibles in their other hand.
Posted by PamB

Seems like common sense. When a guy joins the military in the time of war and more than likely will be sent into a combat zone, a person might just want to take on a little more religion.

Happens during any war. Would you prefer that the military suppress all religion during soldier's training?

John Boy! Actually, I've gotta dance outta my jammies and put clothes on so I can go to the corner market and buy some butter. Holiday baking today. (after sleeping in until 10 a.m.)

Crisp and chilly here in SE OH. A wonderful day to fill our home with wholesome baking goodness! Going to marinate some deer loin for tonight as well.

Enjoy your day!

For those who partake:

Ezekiel 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.

Posted by JustFrank on December 21, 2007 at 11:37 AM

No, but perhaps they can follow the Constitution and not attempt to turn them into christian crusaders.

Well, Frank
What part of

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

don't you get? Since Congress funds the Army this is a violation of the Bill of Rights. Perhaps they should be teaching Islam in order to acquaint the Soldiers with the prevailing culture. That would make more sense, don't you think?

Schwarzenegger proposes to release 22,000 prisoners
By Andy Furillo -

In what may be the largest early release of inmates in United States history, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger's administration is proposing to open the prison gates next year to some 22,000 low-risk offenders.

According to details of a budget proposal made available to The Bee, the administration will ask the Legislature to authorize the release of certain non-serious, non-violent, non-sex offenders who have less than 20 months to go on their terms.

The proposal would cut the prison population by 22,159 inmates and save the cash-strapped state $256 million in the fiscal year that begins July 1 and more than $780 million through June 30, 2010. Besides reducing the inmate population, the proposal also calls for a reduction in more than 4,000 prison jobs, most of which would involve correctional officers.
*****

Let's see... if the Sunnis stop fighting if we give them money and guns and let their relatives out of the torture prisons, they stop fighting for a while.

A governor here in California could become King if he'd do the same for the sorely tested people caught up in an immense legal system. For awhile?

( He is being sued to reduce the prison population and the courts won't let him farm them out to private prisons in other states. Plus the budget is exploding in his face.)

These political calculations are serving us with a police state.

The president says his job is to protect the people of the US and stomps on the constitution in so doing. All these officials swore an oath to defend the constitution. Which is legally correct?
****

To Impeach or Not to Impeach? A Discussion with House Judiciary Chair John Conyers and CIA Veteran Ray McGovern
*****
AMY GOODMAN: Why stop short of hearings on impeachment?

REP. JOHN CONYERS: Well, because, unless we’re going to impeach the Vice President and the President within this space of time, I think we could be very seriously compromising the greatest important—most important thing, in addition to documenting any misdeeds that may have happened, whether we continue to have Bush enablers continue to shatter and tear the Constitution to shreds. And so, all of this, academically, is great. I’ve got a number of books from my friends about which articles would be best and which ones we should go after more. But it seems to me that the time element and also the feasibility of whether or not there is any possible chance of success—there is a very stark reality that with the corporatization of the media, we could end up with turning people who should be documented in history as making many profound errors and violating the Constitution from villains into victims. And those are the kinds of considerations that have entered my mind in thinking about this process, Amy.

JUAN GONZALEZ: And, Ray McGovern, you’ve been outspoken on this issue, and given the new evidence now about the destruction of the CIA tapes and the White House staff—some staff involvement in that, your sense of the impeachment situation?

RAY McGOVERN: Well, we not only have the obstruction of justice, but we have the President’s former spokesman saying that he was involved in the outing of Valerie Plame. We also have the President threatening World War III on bogus evidence that Iran was developing a nuclear weapons development program. So, you know, it’s sort of like outreach fatigue. Where do you begin?

Well, where I would begin is with the demonstrably impeachable offenses—first and foremost, the President’s not only admission, but his bragging about violating laws against eavesdropping on Americans without a court warrant. He bragged that he did that thirty times. That was one of the articles of impeachment voted against President Nixon. Similarly, disregarding subpoenas, that, too, was one of the articles voted against President Nixon in the Judiciary Committee, where Congressman Conyers, of course, served very loyally. So you have those two right there.

And that’s not even mentioning, you know, forging, manufacturing, coming up with false intelligence to deceive congressmen and senators out of their constitutional prerogative to declare or to otherwise authorize war. I mean, it doesn’t get any worse than that. And so, my sense is that our founders are probably turning over in their grave at this point, because they put the impeachment clause in the declarative mood, not the subjunctive mood. They didn’t say that—

www.democracynow.org/2007/12/20/to_impeach_or_not_to_impeach

The near silent jack-boot steps to a fascist police state here in the USA:

A Look Back and Ahead
Police State America

By STEPHEN LENDMAN

www.counterpunch.org/lendman12172007.html

Colbert chosen as AP celebrity of the year.

BBL. Heading Downtown to look at the tree and finish some "last minute" shopping.

Later.

Happens during any war. Would you prefer that the military suppress all religion during soldier's training?
Posted by JustFrank on December 21, 2007 at 11:37 AM

I think making clergy available for those who seek it, and holding services on Sundays for those that want it is quite enough !

Funny, they are not pushing Christianity ! They are pushing Evangelicalism, i.e. they must believe that Jesus is their Savior ! Why would Aethists, Agnostics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists have to be force fed this? Did you read that article???

(CNN) -- California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger plans to sue the federal government over its decision not to allow a California plan to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, he announced Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/20/california.emissions/index.html

Connfloyd,

It has been written that those stories of the Clintons taking anything other than their own pieces of furniture were manufactured, along with that they took all the "b" off the computers, etc by the same Trash who tried to impeach Bill for 8 years ! A simple google shows you that those who spread the rumors are all Right Wing Asshat sites.

Here is another Lie the trolls love to Spread:

Claim: The Clinton administration failed to track down the perpetrators of several terrorist attacks against Americans.

Status: False.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.htm

The books that tell the dirty little secrets about the Bush administration and the Machiavellian, win-at-any-cost, depraved and debased nature of the modern incarnation of the GOP.

Funny enough - they are the only books about the GOP that are selling - Karl Rove made the rounds trying to sell a book idea with a high-powered rep and got no takers. Ann-thrax Coulter-geist went to the well one too many times, and her latest book has totally tanked. Total sales have not even risen to the level that they could be called anemic. Even the choir has told the preacher to shut the hell up already.

The one that I already ordered an advance copy of that doesn't even publish until next month is How to Rig an Election: Confessions of a Republican Operative, which tells the story of the 2002 New Hampshire Senate Race. The book is a tell-all by the operative who committed the election tampering. He believes that the decision to tamper with the dead-heat election reaches high up in the national party, and that when it unraveled they conspired to hang it all on him.

http://bluegirlredmissouri.blogspot.com/2007/12/its-finally-happenedmy-irony-meter-is.html

Winter Solstice
Sat., Dec. 22, 2007, 1:08 A.M. EST , marks the solstice

-on the 21st, today, Way Out West.

Longest 'night,

This makes me smile ! Dis-illusioned Repugs not giving any money to the party nor the candidates (outside of Libertarians with Ron Paul and the promise to do away with the IRS!)

The Democratic campaign committees ended November with nearly five times as much cash on hand as their Republican counterparts. This means Democrats will enter 2008 well-positioned to pick up additional seats due to their continued financial advantage and a slew of GOP retirements, largely in highly competitive districts.

The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee raised $4.1 million in November, compared with the $2.7 million brought in by the National Republican Congressional Committee.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1207/7509.html

Funny, they are not pushing Christianity ! They are pushing Evangelicalism, i.e. they must believe that Jesus is their Savior !
Posted by PamB

All Christians believe that Jesus is their Savior.

Posted by Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on December 21, 2007 at 11:37 AM....Thanks for posting this...when I run into the two trolls early tomorrow morning I will hit them in the head with it!.

All Christians believe that Jesus is their Savior

Not quite, Frank.

I am an Episcopalean, but not a believer that unless I accept Jesus as my savior I will go to Hell! That was never taught in our church.

Posted by TomN on December 21, 2007 at 12:06 PM
Thanks for the post and the link Tom. Helps me to understand why they have not proceeded with impeachment hearing. I feel that Congress may feel that if they back Bush in a corner he will do something crazy

I am an Episcopalean, but not a believer that unless I accept Jesus as my savior I will go to Hell! That was never taught in our church.\
Posted by PamB

Belief that Jesus Christ is your savior is a basic belief of Christianity.

People who repent their sins will be forgiven People are "saved" and forgiven if they confess their sins and confess their belief in the resurrection of Jesus. As explained in Romans 10:9-10 (English-NIV), "That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Romans 6:23 (NIV) "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

Not sure if you got shorted with your religious training but it doesn't look good for you.

just a couple of the Many, Many articles stating the Clintons took nothing except what they assumed were gifts to them!

Clintons to return $28,000 in White House furnishings
February 7, 2001
Cnn. com
WASHINGTON -- White House Chief Usher Gary Walters tells CNN that former President Bill Clinton and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton have notified the White House they intend to return $28,000 in furnishings they removed from the White House when moving out in January.

Critics have raised persistent questions about whether removing the furniture was appropriate -- and whether the furniture was a gift to the Clintons or to the White House. Walters told CNN that the Clintons said they wanted to avoid any questions of impropriety, although they insisted that a check of the records indicated the gifts were available to them.
The Park Service serves as a steward for the White House and is the only unit with the legal authority to accept gifts for the White House, according to the Post. A gift meant for the current White House occupants, by contrast, is routed through the White House gifts office, a separate unit.

Clintons Will Return Any Gifts Found to Belong to White House
E-MAIL Print Save Share
Del.icio.usDiggFacebookNewsvinePermalinkBy CHRISTOPHER MARQUIS
Published: February 6, 2001
Former President Bill Clinton and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton received authorization to take certain household furnishings to their new homes as gifts but will return any items that are found to be White House property, a spokesman said today

NY Times

Posted by ___**D__Cactus____ on December 21, 2007 at 01:53 PM Not worth responding to, just nonsense.

Something is rotten in New Jersey???

THE CAUCUS The New York Times Political Blog

September 6, 2007, 4:57 pm
Clinton Supporter Arrested in N.J. Corruption Sting

By Patrick Healy

Update: Blake Zeff, a spokesman for the Clinton campaign, just e-mailed to say that Mayor Rivera stepped down from Mrs. Clinton’s Mayors Council today.

Among the 11 public officials arrested in an F.B.I. corruption sting in New Jersey today was a leading Democratic supporter of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s presidential campaign in that state, Mayor Samuel Rivera of Passaic.

It was the latest legal embarrassment involving an ally of the Clinton campaign, coming only one day after a wealthy Clinton donor, Norman Hsu, missed his court date in a California fraud case and apparently disappeared.

Clinton advisers this spring and summer have been aggressively touting their long list of endorsements from elected officials and prominent Democratic donors, to indicate the breadth of establishment support that Mrs. Clinton enjoys. Yet, in the case of Mr. Hsu and now Mayor Rivera, the criminal allegations indicate a cost that can come with quickly rounding up political support from far and wide.

The Clinton campaign has severed ties with Mr. Hsu; as for Mayor Rivera, he remains a member of Mrs. Clinton’s Mayors Council as of this afternoon, but a campaign spokesman said that the charges were “serious” and will be monitored closely.

According to the criminal complaint filed in Federal District Court, Mayor Rivera allegedly promised to deliver a majority of votes on the Passaic City Council to steer city insurance brokerage business to a dummy company set up by the F.B.I.

Federal agents posing as company executives offered a $50,000 payment to Mr. Rivera in return for the business, according to the complaint; Mr. Rivera allegedly accepted an initial installment of $5,000.

Mr. Rivera, according to a transcript of secretly recorded conversations laid out in the complaint, boasted profanely of essentially controlling the seven-member city council. He said that securing a four-vote majority would be “easy, easy, easy,” and, at another point, said the deal was as good as done.

“I make the [expletive] decision. And the council. And believe me, I’ve got the four [expletive] votes on the Council. So let’s stop [expletive], and let’s get this thing rolling,” Mr. Rivera said, according to the complaint.

Mr. Rivera is one of about 100 members of Mrs. Clinton’s Mayors Council, which, according to a campaign press release in July, “will advise the campaign on policy and outreach.”

When Mr. Zeff was asked this afternoon about Mr. Rivera’s status with the campaign he replied, “These are serious charges and as the process moves forward we will be monitoring them closely.”

The 11 officials, who also included two Democratic state assemblymen, are scheduled to appear in Federal District Court in Trenton this afternoon.

Something is rotten in Washington???

Damage at White House Offices Being Handed Over to the Bush Administration from The Clinton Staff - Truth!

> Summary of eRumor: When George W. Bush took over the presidency in 2001, his new staff arrived in the offices of the White House to find that there had been widespread pranks and vandalism by the departing Clinton staff. Published reports said computers were left unusable, pornography was found on both computers and walls, and telephone systems were trashed by the cutting of cables and wires.

> The Truth:
The final, official report from the Government Accounting Office was released on June 11, 2002. The 220 page document says there was damage, although not as much as some of the early reports had suggested. The GAO says the damage included 62 missing computer keyboards, 26 cell phones, two cameras, ten antique doorknobs and several presidential medallions and office signs. The damage estimate was about $20,000. Clinton critics say the report proves that the departing Clinton staff members acted recklessly and disrespectfully. Clinton supporters say the report shows that the allegations of vandalism were exaggerated and that there were similar incidents when Clinton took over the White House from the staff of George Bush.

The GAO report concludes that even though damage was verified and that some of it appeared to have been intentional, there was not clear evidence of who was responsible for it.

This has been a subject of contention since President Bush took office. There were reports of vandalism, graffiti, and obscene messages in White House offices by outgoing Clinton staffers. Bush downplayed the reports saying he wanted to move on with the presidency. Clinton supporters, however, charged that the story was not true and that the Bush forces had made up the story to make Bush's staff look better than Clinton's. Former President Clinton offered to pay for any damage and his supporters called for an investigation.

May 18, 2001 the General Accounting Office issued a three-page letter that said that it was unable confirm the damage largely to a lack of records from the White House. The letter also said that the condition of the White House offices was "...consistent with what we would expect to encounter when tenants vacate office space after an extended occupancy." As to any details of damage, the GAO letter said For supporters of former President Clinton, that seemed to end the matter. They proclaimed victory, called the whole story an urban legend, and asked the White House to apologize.

In response, White House press secretary Ari Fleischer outlined the details of the damage, most of which was in the Eisenhower Execitive Office Building adjacent to the White House. On June 3, 2001 The Washington Post quoted Fleischer as saying that the damage included the removal of the letter "W" from 100 computer keyboards, five missing brass nameplates with the presidential seal on them, 75 telephones with cover plates missing or apparently intentionally plugged into the wrong wall outlets, six fax machines relocated in the same way, ten cut phone lines, two historic door knobs missing, overturned desks and furniture in about 20 percent of the offices, obscene graffiti in six offices, and eight 14-foot loads of usable office supplies recovered from the trash. According to Fleischer, there was one incident in the White House itself, a photocopy machine that had copies of naked people hidden in the paper tray so they would come out from time to time with other copies.

Critics of the Bush administration said they didn't trust the White House report.

On June 5, 2001, the General Accounting Office announced that it had launched an investigation into the matter, which was released on June 11, 2002.

There was a companion story that Air Force One had been the victim of the outgoing Clintons and that numerous items from aboard the plane had been pilfered. President Bush himself told reporters aboard Air Force one on February 12, 2001, that the report was not true. According to Salon Washington correspondent Jake Tipper, Bush brought up the subject because the chief steward aboard Air Force One told him the allegations were false.

Posted by ___**D__Cactus____ on December 21, 2007 at 01:53 PM I don't remember seeing any of those quotations in Mark's Gospel, the earliest of the Gospels, written aprox. 20 years after the death of Jesus. The book of Romans was, for the most part written by Paul, who in his many travels was exposed to many eastern religions which may have crept into his teaching. Paul never met Jesus while Jesus was alive, Mark did.

Posted by ___**D__Cactus____ on December 21, 2007 at 01:53 PM I don't that should have been "Just Frank"....sorry about that Cactus.....I'm going to get some zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's now....later...

posted by PamB 21 Dec 07 at 11:00A
This is a very scary development. I would like to see a current copy of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) because I believe that this religious indoctrination goes against UCMJ as well as being un-Constitutional which makes the indoctrination illegal as all hell. That goes double for the religious indoctrination in the Air Force Academy and ROTC units as well, because these fanatics will be in positions of influence within the chain of command.
This demands a Congressional investigation because it attacks the very roots of our democracy.
We don't need a bunch of glassy eyed religious fanatics in our armed forces willing to murder in the name of false religious premises.

Posted by Righting_the_Wrongs on December 21, 2007 at 02:29 PM

The liberals do not prevent saying a prayer before football games or at any other event. If you and anyone else wish to gather before a game, in school or in the miltary, no one will make an attempt to prevent you. It is when the government leads the prayer that it is a clear violation of the Constitution according to settled law.

Have you ever thought of how you may feel if in twenty years or so Islam becomes the predominant faith in this nation, as it is in many others, and you or your children become a captive audience to the reciting or practicing of their religion?

This nation is great because we tolerate other religions without government endorsement or interference.

justfrank: There are a lot of religious people in the military, and those who do feel the need to turn to God in times of crises have regular military chaplains available for religious counseling, AT THEIR REQUEST.
Chaplains are required to serve soldiers of ALL religious persuasions EQUALLY.
There are chaplains of all major faiths, as well as evangelicals.
These kids who are going into the military need the support of THEIR beliefs, and not an indoctrination into some off-the wall outfit who tells them that they will go to hell if they continue to follow the religion they were raised in.
I know for a fact, that Roman Catholics, Jews, and Muslims, and even some mainstream Protestants have all been attacked by these right wing religious nuts and were made to feel very unwelcome.
At least back when I was lower enlisted, a complaint to the First Sergeant brought this to an immediate halt. Apparently this is now no longer the case.

Posted by What_the_hell on December 21, 2007 at 02:10 PM

So if any "supporter" of a candidate gets in trouble with the law that somehow transfers on to the candidate who the support?????

Wow. Way to make that stretch. You sure you worked out those muscles sufficiently beforehand? I bet you're going to have some nasty cramps.

It is when the government leads the prayer that it is a clear violation of the Constitution according to settled law.
Have you ever thought of how you may feel if in twenty years or so Islam becomes the predominant faith in this nation, as it is in many others, and you or your children become a captive audience to the reciting or practicing of their religion?
This nation is great because we tolerate other religions without government endorsement or interference.
Posted by BlueinIdaho

The following is an item I spotted that you might find of interest. Please keep in mind that Normandale is a "government school".

Normandale's 'meditation room' is home to a single faith

By Katherine Kersten, Star Tribune
December 18, 2007 - 9:29 AM

Last week, I visited a Muslim place of worship. A schedule for Islam's five daily prayers was posted at the entrance, near a sign requesting that shoes be removed. Inside, a barrier divided men's and women's prayer space, an arrow informed worshippers of the direction of Mecca, and literature urged women to cover their faces.

Sound like a mosque?

The place I'm describing is the "meditation room" at Normandale Community College, a 9,200-student public institution in Bloomington.

Until recently, the room was the school's only usable racquetball court. College administrators converted the court into a meditation room when construction forced closure of the previous meditation room.

A row of chest-high barriers splits the room into sex-segregated sections. In the smaller, enclosed area for women sits a pile of shawls and head-coverings. Literature titled "Hijaab [covering] and Modesty" was prominently placed there, instructing women on proper Islamic behavior.

They should cover their faces and stay at home, it said, and their speech should not "be such that it is heard."

"Enter into Islaam completely and accept all the rulings of Islaam," the tract read in part. "It should not be that you accept what entertains your desires and leave what opposes your desires; this is from the manners of the Jews."

"[T]he Jews and the Christians" are described as "the enemies of Allaah's religion." The document adds: "Remember that you will never succeed while you follow these people."

A poster on the room's door advertised a local lecture on "marriage from an Islamic perspective," with "useful tips for marital harmony from the Prophet's ... life." Other fliers invited students to join the Normandale Islamic Forum, or participate in Ramadan celebrations.

One thing was missing from the meditation room: evidence of any faith but Islam. No Bible, no crucifix, no Torah.

Normandale's administration is facilitating the room's Islamization. The college's building crew erected the barrier separating men's and women's sections, according to Ralph Anderson, dean of student affairs. College officials also posted signs at the room's entrance asking students to remove shoes -- a Muslim custom before prayers. This was "basically a courtesy to Muslim students," Anderson said.

Despite the room's Islamic atmosphere, Anderson says it "is open to everyone."

Why is the meditation room segregated by sex? "Muslim students prefer that areas be divided into male and female," he said. "Other students don't care."

Doesn't sex-segregation present a constitutional problem in a public educational institution? "I don't want to comment on that," he said.

And the literature regarding Jews and Christians? "I would probably take it out if I knew it was in there," said Anderson.

Normandale's zealous effort to accommodate Muslim students is not new. Chad Lunaas, a former student who works at the college part time, cites examples.

Last year on Fridays, he says, he often entered the bathroom to find that "every sink and toilet stall had someone washing his feet." Other students couldn't use the bathroom at these times, and those who tried felt awkward.

Lunaas finally expressed his concerns to a Muslim student who "seemed to be in charge."

"His attitude was, 'We don't have to listen to you, we can do whatever we want,' " he said.

Confrontations also erupted in the sex-segregated meditation room, according to Lunaas. "Muslim students just took it over. They made people who were not of the Muslim religion feel very uncomfortable, especially if they were female."

One female student tried to use the room when Muslim students were in it, said Lunaas. "She believed she should be treated equally. They were telling her to leave, to take off her shoes, to go to the other side of the divider."

Anderson says he met several times with concerned students. But "the whole thing was just basically swept aside," according to Lunaas.

Anderson said that in the incident involving the young woman, "both sides were probably out of line."

Howard Odor, who advises the college's Somali Student Association, said he has not been aware of "any issues" since the meditation room has been in the racquetball court. "I can guarantee that college policy is that anyone who wants to go in there and pray or meditate can do so."

But many at the college see a bigger issue.

"For all practical purposes, this meditation room is essentially a Muslim prayer room," said Chuck Chalberg of Normandale's history faculty. "Something this unprecedented goes beyond religious toleration."

Teen dies hours after liver transplant approved

GLENDALE, California (AP) -- A 17-year-old died just hours after her health insurance company reversed its decision not to pay for a liver transplant that doctors said the girl needed.

Posted by Michigan_Dave on December 21, 2007 at 03:13 PM

In the words of David Cassidy--in fact, uh, while he was still with the Partridge Family--uh--I think I love you.

Ok, there I've said it. You rock!

How cool is that? That is the best one I have ever heard. The person who thought that one up is a genius. I'm gonna go sit my bare naked ass on the copy machine and run off 20 copies and do the same thing.

Posted by Michigan_Dave on December 21, 2007 at 03:20 PM

Hey, maybe we could use this as the official letterhead for your campaign ;)

posted by justfrank 21 Dec 07 at 03:19P
So this is apples and oranges. Why are you dragging a local matter into the discussion of the attempted indoctrination of our military?
Where ever Normandale is, this problem needs to be handled by the local school officials.
Our military should NOT be co-opted by religious fanatics, bottom line.
All you are trying to do is stir up hatred, and justify the unjustifiable.
You have proven yourself just another worthless troll in my opinion, and you need to crawl back into your hole.

You never see this kind of stuff by Democrats!

and you still have those who do not believe that Bush, Rove, the Republicans had anything to do with Florida 2000 and Ohio 2004 election fraud !

Inside a GOP Effort to Rig the 2002 New Hampshire Elections

McClatchy Newspapers

Washington - A former GOP political operative who ran an illegal election-day scheme to jam the phone lines of New Hampshire Democrats during the state's tight 2002 U.S. Senate election said in a new book and an interview that he believes the scandal reaches higher into the Republican Party

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/122107C.shtml

C'mon you two, we have lost 7 in a row. Kansas City is a beatable team

Posted by Michigan_Dave on December 21, 2007 at 03:13 PM

It sounds like the Lions are as well ;)

Posted by Kristen on December 21, 2007 at 03:20 PM

I've been keeping up with that story. A very tragic story that is completely misunderstood by most.

There are some blogs that have become militant and hatefilled, mostly directed at those that work for Cigna. Even the physicians did not hold out much hope for this girl other than the possiblility that she might live six more months.

But even given that, no one prevented the transplant at Cigna. No one in CA is required to carry insurance, and it is likely that they could have received financial aid or other support without benefit of Cigna payment for the treatment.

I'm just not sure I like the Terri Shiavo-like militancy/activism that this issue is inciting.

Hey Dave,

How about just some copies of your middle finger up in the air, and put them in the machine that your boss uses?? Drive him crazy trying to figure out who's hand that is!

ps, I have said many a prayer during a UCONN game, especially when they are playing MaryMac's TN team! "Dear God, I will be so good from now on and attend Church every Sunday, if you only let Pat summitt get tossed out with 2 technicals !"

This is an oldie...

Air Force Academy faulted over religion June 2005

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. Air Force Academy cadets have been subjected to "well-intended but wrong" professions of faith by instructors or senior officers, but an investigation found no overt religious discrimination, an Air Force general said Wednesday.

Lt. Gen. Roger Brady, the service's deputy chief of staff for personnel, said the Air Force needs to instruct commanders on what religious expression is considered appropriate.

Then from a little later that same year...

Air Force Sued Over Religion

Over the past decade or more, the suit claims, academy leaders have fostered an environment of religious intolerance at the Colorado school, in violation of the First Amendment...

...There have been complaints at the academy that a Jewish cadet was told the Holocaust was revenge for the death of Jesus and that another Jew was called a Christ killer by a fellow cadet. A banner in the football team's locker room read: "I am a Christian first and last ... I am a member of Team Jesus Christ."

Also, there have been complaints that cadets were pressured to attend chapel, that academy staffers put New Testament verses in government e-mail, and that cadets used the e-mail system to encourage others to see the Mel Gibson movie "The Passion of the Christ."

Posted by BlueinIdaho on December 21, 2007 at 03:41 PM

I guess I am confused by your post, are you saying that because Health Insurance isn't manadatory in California her family should have dropped their health insurance (probably employer provided) and looked to the state to pay the costs?

Unfortunately Blue, I don't agree that this is another Shiavo case. I realize you work in the insurance industry so I'm sure we will fall on different sides of this issue...but I truly believe that insurance companies drag the process out with the hope the patient will die and they can avoid payment and then justify by saying 'she only had 6 months'.

I know people that were given a life sentence from their doctors...my father in law was told 5 years ago he only had 2 years to live thankfully his insurance is still covering his treatment and he is still with us.

Posted by Kristen on December 21, 2007 at 03:55 PM

No, really I'm not saying that and I have only worked in this industry for seven years. I will preface my words by also stating that in those seven years I have been very involved in cases that are similar to this one in that they involve highly emotional and financial interests and concerns. I have never witnessed anyone in the company I work for put the costs associated with treatment above the necessity for the treatment itself. Everyone's heart here appears to be in working order, so to speak.

When I mentioned Schiavo, I did so because of the hatefilled comments I have read on other blogs that are directed to the workers and families of those workers of Cigna. It seems lately that anyone that has read a paragraph of any news related material becomes an expert on the subject and a very militant activist....remember Frist? No one, except those directly involved, truly understand what actually took place, yet they are willing to threaten and harass innocent people related to the issue.

I don't really want to comment on it further, mostly because I don't have all the facts either. However, from what I did read, the Liver transplant may have resulted in hastening her death because of the complications it brings. Then, you also have the fact that many people are waiting there turn for a liver transplant that will have a much more likely chance at surviving more than six months. Those are the factors that the insurance company has to weigh when making the decision whether to pay for the treatment.

The reference about not being required to carry insurance was just a reminder that treatment can and has been received without benefit of insurance. And, it could have been in this instance as well.

Blue, I realized after I posted that I made it sound as if those employed within the insurance industry are devoid of human feeling and for that I apologize. Unfortunately, I think the machine gets away from it's purpose and the employees end up doing all they can to get things through the process which by decision is impossibly slow.

In fairness though, I posted the story from CNN and it didn't include any of the vile hate that some may be posting about Cigna.

Posted by Michigan_Dave on December 21, 2007 at 04:14 PM

{{{MD}}} not sure why I get a hug after insulting your Lions but I'll take it anyway!

I thought I had more Christmas errands to do and when I got to the mall I realized I could't come up with one more present to buy....so yes I'm done! Next step baking my families favorite pie...Cranberry Apple....or as my loving brother calls it "CRAP" Pie, but generally only after he is getting up for his second or third piece.

My family all live in the area so my parents only have to put up with us for a few hours before they kick everyone out. I will end up doing most of the cooking, even though it's my birthday and I can count on no one remembering, until my mom comes in the room to loudly wish me a Happy Birthday.

Have a great Christmas!

Kristen, I worked for 34 years in the insurance industry, and most every company tries to do the best they can. They are all rated by companies like AM Best, etc, and people are much more conscious of making sure they use a highly rated company (which takes claim complaints into effect).

One thing I have to say to all. Make sure you know the Exceptions on every policy. auto, homeowners, medical, life, etc.

Had a guy who had squirrels get into his attic. They chewed up and destroyed wiring, wood, insulation, EVERYTHING. No coverage.

Implants are Never covered under most Dental insurance.

Suicide and lying on application is not covered for up to 2 years on Life insurance.

Flooding is not covered unless you have a Flood policy.

I urge everyone next time you get your renewals of all your contracts, including your Medical one, to go to the Exception section and read it.
Then at time of claim, you will not be shocked.

Yes, Kristen, the Air Force scandal is not new, but what has been done about it?
Thanks to the rubber-stamp Republican Congress of the time, probably nothing.
Now is the time to start demanding a full-blown Congressional investigation of not just the Air Force Academy, but all military training venues.
It is obvious that various military commanders have violated their oaths to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies both foreign and domestic, and are now working with the administration to destroy our constitution.
If we don't put a screeching halt to this now we will quite possibly wind up with a bunch of goose-stepping fanatics in our military, who will feel obligated to close down every Synagog, Mosque, Catholic church, Buddist temple and any other place of worship which doesn't meet their criteria.
This is another front in the attempts by the Bushiato to destroy our military and our Constitution.

Posted by Kristen on December 21, 2007 at 04:20 PM

We can both agree that the premature death of this girl is excrutiatingly tragic. My heart goes out to her loved ones.

Dear Jesus, Please, Please, Please let these lousy Lions win.
Posted by Michigan_Dave on December 21, 2007 at 03:13 PM

"Yes, I heard your prayers. Honestly, I don't care who wins the game!"

:->

Posted by Butte on December 21, 2007 at 04:32 PM

Butte, in my short search on the problems with the Air Force it doesn't look like much has been done except to push aside the complaints.

The lawsuit I linked to from 2005 ended up being dismissed by the Watchdog group has recently (12/07) filed a new lawsuit against them.

Probably the most interesting part of the story is that the head of the watchdog group, Military Religious Freedom Foundation, is headed by Mikey Weinstein. A former former Air Force Judge Advocate and one time lawyer in the Reagan administration.

here is the story if you want to read it.

Watchdog Group Challenges US Military Over Religious Freedom

Posted by Michigan_Dave on December 21, 2007 at 04:35 PM

We will have to agree to disagree -- I personally liked Kerry's plan in the 04 election. This is a complex issue that has many more causes than just the fact that insurance is involved. BTW, hospitals were initially involved in creating insurance because they weren't receiving payment for that wonderful treatment they were providing and therefore, couldn't update their equipment. Once they started getting paid, their equipment went beyond high tech, and expenses went through the roof. Now no one without insurance can afford the treatment.

It sucks, I agree.

Have a wonderful Christmas!

{{{Michigan Dave}}}}, you have a wonderful Christmas and a healthy, New year. May it bring Peace to us all. May it bring our troops home !

I remember when a lot of doctors were leaving the practice of obstetrics because of the high insurance rates. At that time the insurance companies were blaming lawyers who, they said, talked people into suing doctors whether they were negligent or not. They also blamed juries, saying that the juries gave out money hand over fist.
In the ensuing years, I'm beginning to think that was a smoke screen to justify raising the cost of malpractice insurance out of proportion, and soaking doctors, who then passed the cost along to the patients.
It seems as though the insurance companies get people coming and going, they soak the doctors for practicing medicine, and they soak the patients until they get sick.
As for way back when, my aunt had married a doctor, who was better at patching up people than working on repairs around the house. My dad patched up their house, re-wired it(he was an electrician) and "Uncle Doctor" patched up our family when we needed it.
The local hospital was run by Franciscan nuns back then, and when they opened the new wing, about the time my nephew was due, her husband engraved the hospital's new stainless steel ware, and my Mom monogrammed a bunch of new sheets and pillowcases to pay the hospital bill.
Used to be you could get by without much money if you had good skills and some determination.
You can't do that anymore. Everything is corporate, and all they want is money.

Kirsten: Thanks for the link. I think that Mr. Wienstein is doing a very necessary job.
In the interest of fair disclosure, as a Catholic, I am a member of a faith often targeted by right wing evangelicals.
As a military retiree, what I have seen and heard about these evangelical groups in the military goes against everything I have understood that the US military has stood for.
So on two fronts, my faith, and my military training, what is going on right now goes deeply against my grain.
I know that it didn't used to be like that, and in retrospect I am coming to believe that it hark