Insurgent 'torture chamber' found in Iraq: US
A blood-spattered "torture complex" used by Iraqi insurgents, and the remains of 26 people buried nearby, were found in the province of Diyala on Thursday, the US military announced. The news came as at least 36 people were killed in Diyala, most of them in a suicide attack
Full Story:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071220/wl_mideast_afp/iraqunrest_071220193635

What ever happened to change,
ending the war in Iraq?

Congress votes to fund war, bows to Bush on domestic policy
By Bill Van Auken
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/dec2007/budg-d19.shtml

Today's Word: It goes with the season....for some.

“For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father [of Eternity], Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6)

Posted by DemocratKickingAss on December 20, 2007 at 06:36 PM

Hidee Ho, DKA.

Didn't you watch Howie on CNN's situation room yesterday?

He said we need a democratic President to stop the war.

;\

Good evening, everyone. I just got home, so I know no news of the day.

I must go catch up on my reading.

What's up with Bloomberg running, but not announcing until Feb. 5? Hmmm....

Here's a great column by a Catholic num from 2003...she is worried very much about our pre-emptive war policy.

Sister Joan Chittister from 2003: Our country's plan is "war by-guess-and-by-golly."

Kristen - Thanks for the linkd to the Christmas message from John Edwards on the last thread. The man is a class act.

And, I see that I'm in excellent company in my choice for President! HillWilliam, I'm glad to he's your choice, too. That seals the deal for me.

A Not to be Missed Huckabee Christmas Card

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/12/get-ready-for-t.html

Posted by Esmeralda on December 20, 2007 at 06:40 PM

I think we will get a Democrat for a President in 2008 but right now Democrats can still end the Iraq war if they really wanted to by using the power of the purse if President Bush continues to veto bills with a withdrawal date. I don't think it's fair to our troops to leave them in Iraq with no plan to exit. This failed Bush policy of stay the course has got to come to an end. What bothers me is that we were promised change and an end to the war in Iraq and so far nothing has changed, however, I will support and vote for whoever wins the Democratic nomination for President as this would increase the chances of change. President Bush is too stuborn and refuses to listen to anyone even when others feel he is wrong and it's sad. Those billions and billions of dollars being spent in Iraq could be spent on much needed things that need attention right here at home such has healthcare, fixing our brideges, and so on.

Unnamed sources claim the DC Fire Dpeartment has pinned down the cause of the fire. It seems Vice President Cheney's pants caught on fire, while he was talking to Justice Department Officials.

Posted by DemocratKickingAss on December 20, 2007 at 07:47 PM
I, too, am disappointed in the current members of Congress. I am angry with the arrogant Rethugs for blocking everything that the Dems bring, simply because the Dems suggested it. I am almost equally angry with the Dems for showing zero backbone. I too will vote for whomever gets the nomination and work my butt off campaigning for him or her. But, make no mistake, I'm angry too.

DemocratKickingAss -

Exactly. It took a lot of brass on someone's part to post the headline "Hold the GOP accountable for everything they say on the 2008 campaign trail."

I'd like to hear that person's comments on why we're done holding the Democrats accountable for everything they said on the 2006 campaign trail.

Sigh...another election year, another matter of "settling" for the "Un-Republican" candidate.

"Vote for us. We're not them."

What a platform.

The idiot in chief has no intention of doing anything about global warming despite his lip service.

Yesterday the EPA (with a crony in charge no doubt) told California, Oregon and Washington they could not tell auto makers to go green and tighten up on emissions. The states are furious. There are eleven other states that have set tougher standards than bush's crime family.

I think California should tell bush to shove it and demand the changes or they will not allow American auto makers to sell cars in California period. Screw bush.

evening folks,

DKA, I heard an analyst saying on TV the other night, that the Dems went along with this money for Iraq, because this keeps BUSH's and the Republican's occupation going! Bush and Repugs who support him, will take the blame for this war. Thus voters will vote Democratic. The guy did say that the Dems play a dangerous game with their base though who all want us out of there.

This is a good view

Frustrated by Congress? Blame the White House

Will the real Bush 41 please stand up?

Chronologically, George H.W. Bush can lay claim to that number. But because of how he has been able to "govern," George W. Bush is the rightful owner. His legacy of obstructionism is secured, in great measure, by the ability to muster 41 votes in the Senate, where it takes 60 votes to overcome a filibuster. So, 41 votes can kill any measure.

Among other things, the president and his party have used that rule to block efforts to redeploy U.S. troops in Iraq and to thwart attempts to follow the "pay-go" policy, under which Congress supposedly pays for the programs or tax cuts it passes. The "41 rule" is bad enough for bipartisanship. This week's messy end to the congressional year shows how President Bush's general obstinacy makes things even worse.

Mr. Bush preaches fiscal responsibility, but he and the Senate's "41 rule" added billions to the debt by blocking the House solution to the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT) problem. Wealthy individuals are supposed to pay the tax. But because the triggers aren't indexed for inflation, 21 million middle-income taxpayers faced a hit averaging $2,000 each. The House voted to shield those taxpayers and make up the lost revenue with a tax on hedge fund managers who, through a loophole, have cached compensation in tax-shielded offshore accounts. But that solution couldn't get 60 votes in the Senate. So, the AMT got fixed but not paid for.

The fiscal responsibility president and the rule of 41 also kept Congress from attaching any conditions - even advisory - to President Bush's Iraq War budget. Even as he chastised Congress for putting too much pork in the long-delayed, $550 billion omnibus spending bill, he insisted on getting $70 billion more to spend in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's on top of the $500 billion already spent, much of it badly, on the Iraq War. And it means that, even if the Iraqi government continues to fail in its responsibility to take advantage of the relative lull in fighting and even if violence returns to higher levels, there is no mechanism to make Mr. Bush change policy.

Bush and GOP obstinacy also put the brakes on innovation. The energy bill he signed Wednesday increases vehicle fuel-efficiency standards, which is good. But, with GOP support, the president refused to reduce tax breaks enjoyed by oil companies and grant breaks instead to developers of renewable energy.

Even when Congress was so bipartisan that the "41 rule" did not block legislation, Mr. Bush's veto power did. Twice, Congress sent Mr. Bush a bill to expand the State Children's Health Insurance Program. Twice he vetoed it. Because of his vetoes - which proved that supposed negotiations were just cynical maneuvering - Congress this week approved a temporary extension to keep 6 million children from losing their health insurance. But because of the thwarted expansion, another 4 million who are eligible will not be able to get it.

Democratic voters are frustrated. But Democrats aren't to blame. The solution isn't fewer Democrats. At the very least, the solution is one less Bush.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/opinion/content/opinion/epaper/2007/12/20/a16a_leadedit_Congress_1220.html

Baron, the headline you mention is promoting a section of the website that shows the videos that our trackers take. That's why it talks about holding them accountable.

So essentially, you're asking me why the Democratic Party doesn't have trackers following the Democratic candidates. There's no nominee. We (the DNC) stay neutral in primaries.

bush and the MSM were bragging today that he prevailed in his fight with Congress over his budget.

He said "I saved the middle class from getting a tax increase". WTF? The Dems finally did something about the marriage tax that the repukes failed miserably to do in the last repuke congress. bush and the repukes refused to increase tax on the higher income earners to make up for it. What he finally agreed to was to add $50 Billion to the deficit. Here he is touting that he saved us from a tax increase.

Our grandchildren will pay through the nose.

The tomato farmers in Florida pay "illegals" $5.00 a day to pick tomatoes. The "illegals" want a small wage increase of 1 penny per pound picked. The farmers said FU.

Guess who owns the farmers? Macdonalds owns the farmers and they agreed with the farmers and said FU to the "illegals".

goldman sachs owns macdonalds. It is reported that the top dogs in goldman each got a $600,000 bonus this year. The total cost of the raise was $250,000. This is downright criminal.

BOYCOTT MAC DONALDS! PISS ON THE CHEAP BASTARDS AT GOLDMAN SACHS.

bush said in his press conference this morning that "The Russian government needs more checks and balances". WHAT!

HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa.

The moron strikes again.

There's no nominee. We (the DNC) stay neutral in primaries.
Posted by MichaelLink on December 20, 2007 at 08:16 PM

This is a good reminder to all. Thanks Michael. There are those wondering why there are no endorsements around here, and this is why.

(ps, things are so much better there than when McAuliffe was in charge ! Howard is truly a man of the People. )

That's just like the ultra moron ray-gun. In one of his speeches in the 1980's he said that no American has ever fought or shot at a Russian soldier.

WRONG! In 1918 we landed a military force in Archangel and fought with the White Russians against the Communist government.

Do you think cheney was the speech writer for ray-gun and spewing his lies? Maybe he writes chimp's diatribes because KKKarl is working on his 2008 election fraud program.

Bold & Cyn,

YG(bella)M

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Enjoy the evening, everyone.

Now this would be good news for Dems ! What a split of the votes. The Dems are not going to vote for this odd couple at all !!!

"New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Nebraska Senator Chuck Hagel have been conducting regular, private phone conversations over the past few months in an effort to "feel each other out" for a possible presidential run, sources have told the Huffington Post.

The development feeds speculation that the two men could mount a third-party White House ticket. And while the maverick Republican and the independent mayor have met in the past, the ongoing conversations provide the clearest indication yet that they are considering such a move.

Sources with knowledge of the conversations say they are done in private, and so the topics of discussion remain unclear. But one high-ranking aide confirmed that the two have discussed Hagel joining the presidential campaign should Bloomberg decide to run.

"It has to come from Bloomberg because Hagel can't really do anything," said the source, before adding that there was no indication that the two have declared a political alliance. A decision on whether to run will likely be made once the Democrats and Republicans have settled on a nominee.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/20/bloomberg-and-hagel-holdi_n_77734.html

What the hell is President Ahole smoking these days. What a laugh.

Russia's Izvestia Reports:

WASHINGTON, December 20, RIA Novosti, Arkady Orlov. U.S. President George W. Bush believes that after the upcoming presidential elections next year, the White House will remain in the hands of Republicans.

"I believe that we retain the White House," Bush said to journalists on Thursday in Washington.

"Our party understands the nature of the world in which we live, and understands that the primary responsibility rests with the government which is to protect the American people from danger," said the president of the United States.

According to the forecast Bush, Republicans will be able to strengthen its position in both chambers of the United States Congress, where the majority of the Democrats now.

"I am confident that we can increase the number of seats in the Senate and the House of Representatives," he said.

Bush predicts that the new President of the United States will be a Republican

Aw shucks, and bush thought he was going to win.

Time magazine names Putin Man of the Year.

The only way the repukes will win next year is if they steal the election next year. I think this is a distinct possiblity. No one in a position of power even mentions that the repukes with the backing of KKKarl stole both the 2000 and 2004 elections.

Heads should roll if this same crap happens again.

-Results of the current counter-terrorism strategy include a tenfold increase in the number of terrorist attacks-

This is something that I find very hard to swallow, but it is still true that this decade has seen a tenfold increase in the number of terrorist attacks. To make matters worse, those terrorist attacks have more frequently occured in parts of Europe and North America than ever before.

At this point I am led to believe that the current strategy to combat terrorism has instead sparked a growth in that very area. But how could this be?

One likely explanation is, that terrorist recruitment strategies have been adapted to take advantage of our own counter-terrorism efforts which include the military build-up of some Middle Eastern nations. Realizing that a similar event, the now infamous secret CIA war of the 1980's which was responsible for driving the Russian military out of Afghanistan, largely at the expense of local fighters, was the initial motivation behind the growth of Al Qaeda, leads me to believe that such a response to further military build-up in that region was not entirely unforeseeable.

Honestly, I'm sick of watching our politicians, Democrat and Republican, make excuses for why they can't force change. To me, it appears as though our politicians do not truly want change, for were they actually wanting of change they might oppose this administration no matter what the threat.

The constant crying about a Republican party unwilling to compromise has simply worn out. No more can I accept that excuse, especially when it is immediately preceeded by Democrats giving those Republicans what they want.

Were these Democrats children looking for assistance from an adult in handling bullies, I could accept their excuses. But these Democrats have no adults to seek assistance from, they are the adults and this is the buck either stops with them or nothing gets done. So I say, suck it Democrats, get out there and do what you know is right.

I mean, it isn't like your life depends upon your caving in to those Republicans desires. On the other hand, someones life does depend on you forcing the issue.

Good Evening,

Let me review this weeks campaign messages from the repugnant x-tian reich:

1) Huckabee is using religious symbols in his political ads. One is similar to the Christian crusade symbol, etc... So, is he planning to march the Christians into war? "Onward Christian solder, marching us to the war, with the cross of Jesus ...”

2) Romney's message is very interesting. "Romney is the great hunter of house rodents with guns, who wished he had gotten the NRA support and had a father who imagined marching with Martin Luther King." Is he running as Sponge Bob Square Pant's IMAGINATION party campaign?

3) Giuliani is getting tested for ....AI@s shhhhhh!

4) The White House is having a Christmas book, files and video burning party that ran amuck next to VP Cheney's office.

4) The White House is having a Christmas book, files and video burning party that ran amuck next to VP Cheney's office.

Posted by HybridFuel on December 20, 2007 at 10:08 PM

That reminds me, where do these politicians get off caving to this administration only days after it became obvious that the administration was involved in the destruction of CIA interigation tapes?

It's just a sad, sad state of affairs we have in Washington. And it has come about despite the presence of career politicians like Hillary Clinton, which leads me to the logical conclusion that drastic change is necessary.

How long have we been disappointed by the performance of this party? And how long are we going to continue to be before finally making a change?

Politics as usual simply isn't going to get the job done. We've tested that theory time and time again, the results are always the same.

Marine,

I was watching the Cable Guy interview by 20/20 and he stated comedy is very steady work. Every night he writes down things people said or did; he then let it sit in the notebook. The next day he tries to put a comical spin on what he saw.

It makes life a little more bearable. Political Satire makes much better sense. It’s easier to remember something as a satire (joke) than cold hard news.

Example is the fire next to V.P. Cheney’s office.

How many times to we have to tell those Texans to bar-B-Q outdoors and not to do it indoors just because it is cold?

Or how many times do we have to tell those Texans to stop burning camp fires in the offices using legal documents; …all they have to do is turn up the thermostat?

Who in the Republican Party is going to remind Romney, he has to shoot a close friend in the face like VP Cheney to get the NRA endorsement or …was that … joining the LA gang CRIPS?

Another issue that we must address in this nation is the garbage that we allow to pass as news. Most of it is entertainment in nature, or has little to no actual relevance to the lives of those watching. And the relevant portion of the news, well it is less than in depth coverage for there simply isn't enough time left over to go into any great detail.

Ultimately, this type of news coverage gives Americans the idea that the issues are simple to understand and never require the intellectual effort that problems of the past required before being resolved. In essense, it makes for a dumber nation that is less than competative on the world stage than generations past.

Comedy has its place, Hybrid, but you'll have to admit that there is also a place for a sober look at the world.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years!

I got too worked up the other day working on the Social Security numbers. $1.3+ Trillion cash plundered from Social Security Trust Fund after payment of all expenses from 2000 to 2007. The Republicans want to reduce the benefits because they call Social Security Trust Fund an "unfunded mandate". How can a Trust fund that collected 10X the net cash flow of Microsoft corporation for the last 7 years after all expenses were pay be called an "UNFUNDED MANDATE"!

How can a $2+ Trillion dollar savings in a Trust Fund become an "UNFUNDED MANDATE!"?

That's one that I cannot or haven't been able to put a spin on.

I understand your anger and frustration, ...but the propaganda goes on!!!

Every one should send a republican a lump of coal!

Come to think of it, some issues are covered in depth, like the pedophile issue or celebrity crimes, but those are most often the issues least relevant to our lives. Therefore, issues covered in depth typically serve as entertainment.

I enjoy a good laugh too, Hybrid. I'll even joke upon occassion about the audacity of this adminstration and those who allow it to continue on its present course. But, at the end of the day I can only shake my head.

Posted by HybridFuel on December 20, 2007 at 10:24 PM

I heard that cheney's shredder overheated and caught fire.

If I didn't laugh, I would cry.

Hybrid,

I've known for a long time that the Republicans would simply run Social Security into the ground in order to prove their point, but I hadn't realized how they would accomplish that until you posted this information the other day. Now I realize that driving Social Security in to the ground was their plan for covering up their indiscretion.

They had probably planned this all out well in advance. First, they knew they'd always need more of our money to pay off their wealthy supporters. Second, they located a source that was being used for the good of the American People at large. Third, they devised a plan by which they would steal that money from the people and put it into the pockets of their wealthy supporters, while taking a little for themselves of course. Attributing the collapse of that source to the baby boom was their final act of deception.

Marine,

...but who is listening to me. A country is so rich its Social Security Trust Fund with $2+ Trillion dollars is called an "Unfunded Mandate"! and the news networks do not cover it! America is so rich the people gave away their only protection against legal abuse, “Habus Corpus!” Everyone I’ve met from Europe, Asia and Canada know about the American budget, yet talk to any republican and one will discover they are the most illiterate non-English speaking unpatriotic un-American propaganda machine.

In the bible theft, false proselytizing, coveting and bearing false witness are consider greater sins than abortion or being homosexual.

The bible refers to the punishment for theft, coveting a neighbor’s property, bearing false witness and false proselytizing with death.

For Abortion one must define what is not written in the bible, which is to define the beginning of life. That is why Christians must define life at conception. Because the punishment for aborting a child or causing a miscarriage, prebirth is a monetary compensation for the husband, that is how it is referred to directly in the bible …but if life can be defined as at conception then the punishment for murder is death. The problem with this assertion is the bible defines something “not born” not as a whole person. The bible also defines an animal that is “not born” as not being a whole animal. Therefore the compensation is less than that of a whole animal. The Christian from the republican camp is inserting words that are not in the bible. Don’t get me wrong I do not condone abortion, it is a sin. It is a lesser sin than theft or coveting a neighbor’s property and false proselytizing which are punishable by death.

Being homosexual is referred to in the bible as being despicable. Again one must put words that are not in the holy scripture to define Homosexual in the same category as deviant sex act such as bestiality to condemn the homosexual with a punishment. It is not mentioned directly as a punishable act. I cannot find a direct punishment for being homosexual in the bible. But I can find direct punishment for those who falsely proselytize the word of God, and those that covet his neighbor’s property and those that lie and bear false witness, and those that steal from the community, the punishment for those acts are mentioned directly in the bible and that punishment is death.

Now please explain to me how these people who say they are repugnant x-titan Reich understand the teaching of the Bible when they support people in defiance of the teachings and support some obscure passage to persecute and discriminate.

Perhaps I've been too close to what's at the heart of the matter, the Iraq war. I was trained and later trained others to fight that war, while at the same time learning how to see the big picture of our struggles in the Middle East. Like most who spend a considerable time looking at this problem I realized long ago that a simple military build-up inside the Middle East would merely result in more extreme behavior. So when the order was given to invade Iraq, and I knew that the evidence had up until that time portrayed an isolated and soon to be defeated Saddam Hussien, I had no choice to wait and see how many would die and for what.

The intentional spinning of the information coming in, for patriotic purposes or not, has been all the more difficult to accept knowing that proper strategic planning requires that we take into account the scene as it is, not as we would like to see it.

Good evening, all.

"Vote for us. We're not them."

What a platform.

Posted by BaronScarpia on December 20, 2007 at 08:10 PM

I agree. It is a great platform.

Vote for someone who will solve problems instead of create them. Call me old fashion, but that's what my civics class taught me government officials are suppose to do...act responsibly.

They are suppose to be public servants not crooks and liars. Actually, that is the only thing the Republicans are competent doing...looking out for their own interests not that of the people they represent or the country's well being.

To think their platform was family values. All we have seen is one preverted GOP official after another involved in obstructing justice, caught up in bribery, authorizing human torture, disregarding the Constitution, borrowing and overspending, or participating in public sexual misconduct...among other corrupt things.

There has never been a time when it was more clear that the Republicans must go. Throw the bums out. We are not them.

They just announced on CBS news that Clinton's neighbor has just been arrested for murdering his wife.

Why do they have to mention the Clintons. They have nothing whatever to do with the murder.

It's as if CBS is trying to smear the Clintons with a murder charge.

Have a nice night!

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years!

I need to put political satire into my news.
The one about Cheney's sheader buring is good too!

I'll try not to mix up my hard finacial auditing news and discoveries with satire. That just get's too confusing.

Now please explain to me how these people who say they are repugnant x-titan Reich understand the teaching of the Bible when they support people in defiance of the teachings and support some obscure passage to persecute and discriminate.

Posted by HybridFuel on December 20, 2007 at 11:02 PM

You don't have to explain it to me, I've been watching these false Christians make a mockery of the religion for long enough to know what their game is. For them, religion is simply a means to an end, a political end no less. With it they acquire the support of those who feel as though and yet lack the courage to do so of their own accord. Instead they distort Christian belief so that they may then hide behind it.

The White House is having a Christmas book, files and video burning party that ran amuck next to VP Cheney's office.

Posted by HybridFuel on December 20, 2007 at 10:08 PM

Hybrid,

Are you sure they weren't burning unBelievers at the stake?

This is becoming the biggest diversion of this election cycle...talking about the cross instead of taking it off the back of the poor and sick.

I'd be happy if these people of faith would just quit burning crosses on the lawns of minorities and hanging nooses in between their prayer meetings. They destroy equal opportunity and the American Dream. What else do these hypocrits want?
Blood...is it coming to that?

It's pretty obvious that we are dealing not with Christians but bigots.

Now please explain to me how these people who say they are repugnant x-titan Reich understand the teaching of the Bible when they support people in defiance of the teachings and support some obscure passage to persecute and discriminate.

Posted by HybridFuel on December 20, 2007 at 11:02 PM

You don't have to explain it to me, I've been watching these false Christians make a mockery of the religion for long enough to know what their game is. For them, religion is simply a means to an end, a political end no less. With it they acquire the support of those who feel as they do and yet lack the courage to do so of their own accord. Instead they distort Christian belief so that they may then hide behind it.

Imagine, using Christ himself as a scape goat for ones beliefs, simply because that individuals lacks the courage to own up to them.

John,

All the news networks have been attacking the indiscretion of Clinton's distant brother and cousins and ... "seven links to what's his face"!

I have never been able to control my brother’s behavior or my family’s behaviors. What the heck are they thinking when they try to pin something done by a 3rd cousin from the in-law’s sister’s side of the family to Mrs. Clinton?

Swiftboater bearing false witness. I think the bible is very clear on this issue. We need to tell them this is wrong. That their soul is in jepardy if they continue. And the first punishment is banish them from our society. If this does not work the punishment in the bible is death (of their soul) to judgement by the lord.

But, that's the world we live in and most of us know it. We are not, for instance, unfamiliar with the ugly trend of the televangelist who asks others to donate what they can only to turn around and use a portion of it, if not all of it, to live a life in luxury.

Evening Hybrid, Marine. I've been scrolling up and reading and I have to agree with the two of you. I have been a Christian all of my life but one of the earliest lessons I was taught was to be kind and respectful of those whose beliefs were different than mine. My parents called the people that you are talking about 'holier than thou' types and simply avoided them whenever possible. In church Sunday School, I was taught that we were free to practice Christianity because the 1st Ammendment guaranteed us that right. I was taught to have ultimate respect for the constitution right there in church. While many do, not all Christians act the way that you are describing. Some of us pray for guidance and strength so that we can to do good works in God's name rather than 'cast stones' and 'judge' others on matters that are none of our business. All I ask is that, when you think of Christians, please keep (as you have done so far) remembering that there are people (lots of us) who do follow the teachings of Jesus and don't try to use Christianity as a weapon to hurt and demean others.

SandyH,

You are right about that. $500 million have been allocated to disaster relief in Texas for Rita. Rita happened 2 years and 3 months ago. Guess how much of the disaster relief money have gone to the people to rebuild. Out of all the applicants in 10x thousands, only $1-2 million have been spend on disaster relief. That is less than 0.4% of the money spend on disaster relief. The rest is in the general fund for the Texas Government.

I don't know, I had another take on the coverage that Hillary Clinton gets. I find that the news agencies will accept any excuse to utter her name.

The charges made are no more inflamatory than those brought against other candidates, and are for that reason easily fought down. In fact, most of those news achors who bring up the issues are quick to point out how foolish they are, which suggests to me that they merely make mention of them to make mention of Hillary.

The end result is that her name remains the most often uttered.

learning how to see the big picture of our struggles in the Middle East

Marine,

That is the only rational way to solve any problem. Unfortunately, no one in the Beltway seems to be interested in looking at the root cause.

The decision was made 30 years ago by the GOP to ignore anything but their own goals. Our leadership has decided to wait until we have a Democratic president before forcing any change.

Our troops will spend two more Xmas seasons in the Middle East waiting for someone in the Capitol to realize that this occupation is a matter of life and death...not a political problem. This lack of resolve signals the fall of a once great nation.

Once we could; now we don't even try.

I can't believe the American people will settle for more wedge issues instead of choosing real leadership...and a chance for redemption. We can and must rise again as the symbol of truth and justice.

Have a good evening, all.

Plus, Hillar Clinton wants to be seen as fighting off attacks of this nature. After all, she is running as strong candidate able to withstand just this sort of an attack. For that reason, I believe we may just being watching a staged event.

I had an interesting lunch today - with a republican. I didn't want the conversation to become 'adversarial' so I tried to keep it light; but, I did ask "What do you want from the Federal Government." He said that he wanted lower taxes on the middle class, particularly families with children. He wants smaller, more efficient government that is not corrupt. He wants less government spending on international matters and more spending on domestic issues such as roads, bridges, levees, dams, and the power grids. The whole litany. I took it point by point and explained how that had been done during President Clinton's administration but had been completely undone during the dubbya years. I showed him how, on paper. His only remaining comment was about the 'moral example' set by President Clinton. Do you think that they will ever stop 'beating that dead horse' and start to realize that democrats govern better, spend less and do more on domestic issues that the Republicans ever have? What is it going to take to get them over the rethug brainwashing?

Mary,

I think that moral questioning is at the heart of our own questioning of George Bush. For that reason, I have for the first time ever come to understand just why so many were disgusted with what President Clinton did. When you think about it, arguing the definition of "is" to get around lying about an act of infidelity can be seen as morally troubling.

Certainly this act does not compare with what George Bush has done, and President Clinton did do well as President, but the fact remains for some that our president was clearly using that argument to hide a lie.

I guess that means more to me now that I've seen what lies have produced in Iraq.

Marine,

Someone in Hollywood once said it didn't matter what people say about you just as long as they are talking about you. Celebrities worry that they will be forgotten. It's an ego thing.

Politicians, sports personalities, entertainers, and has beens are all the same. It's about being the talk of the town not their accomplishments.

Statesmen, sports legends, artists, and hard working people are all the same. They toll in silence. Their work is their reward.

Good night, again.

Have a nice night, Sandy.

Posted by SandyH on December 20, 2007 at 11:40 PM

That's the gist of the Clinton's gameplan I believe. Just keep people talking about them and they are sure to recall the good times they had when Bill was president, in the hope that they will then turn around and vote for Hillary.

I agree that what President Clinton did was wrong and lying about it just compounded the issue but the Republicans that I know what to make that the central issue about who our next President should be. It's as if President Clinton acted on behalf of and as representation of the entire democratic party. Further, what he did was wrong but did it trample the constitution, did it get thousands of our best and brightest killed, did it diminish the United States globally? No. What Bush and the neo-cons have done (and it was all of them, not just Bush alone) has done so much damage to this country that it will take decades to try and repair it.

posted by hybridfuel at 10:34P 20 Dec 07
"Everyone should send a republican a lump of coal."
No way!
Don't put flammables in Republicans' hands!
Those boneheads would burn down the whole Capitol!

Those boneheads would burn down the whole Capitol!

Posted by Butte on December 20, 2007 at 11:47 PM

No, they'll sit on it and hope to turn it into a diamond by squeezing it with their anal retentative butts!

LOL marymac, that's a good one!

Well, Keith is finally back tonight on Countdown. I was at work for the earlier show, so I'm gonna' go watch the late show. See you all later.

The other day I posted a letter that was sent to Condelezza Rice on January 25, 2001 outlining the threat posed by terrorist organizations as well as defining those organizations. From the course chosen, mainly the decision to rely upon a localized military build-up in the nations of Afghanistan and Iraq, I must conclude that this administration has never understood the terrorist threat.

Had an understanding of this threat been developed, one would expect to have seen an approach that attempted to combat this paramilitary force in all 40 nations where it could be found actively engaged in efforts to disrupt those governments. Instead, it appears as though the Bush administration and others have confused terrorism, and the threat of paramilitary organizations that it consists of, with conventional concerns for national powers.

This alone could explain why this government quickly shifted its attention from Osama bin Laden and those paramilitary forces responsible for the attacks of September 11, 2001 and other attacks like it to nations like Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea.

but the fact remains for some that our president was clearly using that argument to hide a lie.

Posted by Marine on December 20, 2007 at 11:38 PM

He didn't hide a lie. He looked straight into the camera when he knew he had be caught and lied again...to us.

It was and is personal to some people. I can understand it to a degree. It was pretty blatant.

However, looking at the big picture, we all do this to some degree all of the time. We started doing it when we were children and that's why we know we must strive to overcome it.

Those that can't see the big picture never forgive the imperfections in others. But they forget their own very easily.

mary,

The only way these die hards will ever turn away from the GOP is if they are personally affected by the incompetence and corruption of the Republicans.

It has to be their mother or their children who are directly hurt by the Republicans' policies.
They are just a little too well off and a little too removed from the suffering and sacrifices of others.

The time is coming very soon when they won't be able to escape it any longer. It will be their turn.

Posted by Marine on December 20, 2007 at 11:44 PM

But it also reminds people about the impeachment. It all becomes about Bill not Hillary. She is the one running not him. Their logic is wrong.

Honestly, Mary, I can't give a pass to those Democrats who failed to do their homework prior to making their decision to grant this president the authority he used to enter Iraq. I can't do that and feel confident that I have done all that I can to ensure that the next generation of military men and women are not unnecessarily placed in the line of fire. Nor can I do so with the knowledge that I have done all in my power to ensure that this government becomes strategically competent.

I hope that you all have a good night.

Evening Mary,

I've been betrayed by my christian ministers and his followers. That is why my attacks on their false teaching and faithbased brain washing from the office ran by Rove will persist.

If anyone investigate they will find these church(es) in non-compliance with their tax-free shelter status.

HOW TO START EACH DAY WITH A POSITIVE OUTLOOK

1. Create a new file folder on your computer.
2. Name it 'Hillary Rodham Clinton.'
3. Drag it to the recycle bin.
4. Empty the recycle bin.
5. Your PC will ask you:
'Do you really want to get rid of 'MarvelousFrosty
6. Firmly Click 'Yes.'
7. Feel better instantly.

HOW TO START EACH DAY WITH A POSITIVE OUTLOOK

1. Create a new file folder on your computer.
2. Name it 'MarvelousFrosty.'
3. Drag it to the recycle bin.
4. Empty the recycle bin.
5. Your PC will ask you:
'Do you really want to get rid of 'MarvelousFrosty
6. Firmly Click 'Yes.'
7. Feel better instantly.

Posted by MarvelousFrosty on December 21, 2007 at 03:01 AM......sick, sick, sick, sick, serious mental illness you have there Frosty...

Posted by MarvelousFrosty on December 21, 2007 at 03:17 AM which issue of the national inquirer are you working with tonight? your buddy gigg showed up today and got flushed hard! And early.

That's your primary source of information. A better name for the National Inquirer would be The National Squirrel. Their new motto would be "I'm Looking For My Nuts"

The dial up must be real slow tonight in mn....

Your buddy Cactus sure did get irritated with me last night. One, little, innocent comment and he bailed.

I like Pam,but she does not speak to me anymore. When I say "hi" or good morning, she ignores me or leaves. I don't know why, we agree on most issues, but I'm opposed to more senseless gun control. We seem to disagree about that.I still think that she is a nice lady and a good sport, in spite of what you say.

Oh, BTW, I'm supporting Edwards in spite of what you have said about him....

Posted by MarvelousFrosty on December 21, 2007 at 03:57 AM....You need to take an assertiveness class and quit being so laid back and reserved. You need to learn how to tell us how you really feel. Those comments were over the top.

I have a feeling that the story about Edwards and the girl friend is bogus. Just a hunch. However, I have re thought my position on his being toast if it is true. Since he has not and is not trying to pass himself off as some sort of saint, it won't hurt him in the long run. If he does not get the nomination, I hope he get the a/g spot and I hope Richardson gets the Sec. of State position. I believe they both would do very well in those jobs.

Posted by MarvelousFrosty on December 21, 2007 at 03:57 AM....You are confused, we won't be employing any Republicans.....

Posted by rsjnj on December 21, 2007 at 04:24 AM
So, what do we have here? A phony "rj"......why don't you at least be honest enough to post under your real screen name?........As far as your comments about Edwards goes, one thing he not, is weak of character. It will take a lot more than the likes of a person who hides behind a phony screen name to tear him down!

By the way goodfoe, did you every read that Tom Clancy book that I suggested? Bear and Dragon?

Posted by rsjnj on December 21, 2007 at 04:32 AM
No I never did get that book. Now that you have mentioned it again, I'll try to remember to get it. I've been very busy writing another book myself and forgot about that. I'll send myself a memo.

I agree rsjnj, he should be out their gettimg his jollies especially given that his wife has developed dog like characteristics and her boobs have been removed and she is near death and has dopey political views.

Posted by MarvelousFrosty on December 21, 2007 at 04:34 AM
Frosty, Frosty,...You are really sinking into the slime ball classification with those comments....Pure nasty!

Posted by MarvelousFrosty on December 21, 2007 at 04:42 AM....More pure nasty, nasty. They say if a man has to resort to this type of nastiness it is because he is uneducated......

Sarcasm my boy.

Posted by MarvelousFrosty on December 21, 2007 at 04:49 AM....So now you;re backing up and trying to pass those comments of as sarcasm?....You and I both know that they were intended to be exactly what they were, ....low, mean spirited and NASTY!

BTW Frosty, I think your boy, Rudy is going to have to drop out of the race, HE CAN'T TAKE THE HEAT!!!

rsjnj why iam goofy

I have never heard of that "old saying" before. I suspect you just made it up. A more applicable phrase would be "Global warming means Global cooling in case the earth doesn't warm but cools" Since that is the current dogma of liberal moonbats.

Posted by MarvelousFrosty on December 21, 2007 at 05:02 AM
How perceptive of you. I did just make it up....Now you are trying to switch the conversation to global warming, you should admit that you were out of line with those nasty comments about Senator Edwards' wife and apologize.

why do you say ima oodball like you ?

Posted by rsjnj on December 21, 2007 at 05:03 AM
No, they are not uneducated, they are just trying "to dumb down" to your comprehension level.

Posted by MarvelousFrosty on December 21, 2007 at 05:11 AM...Recently you stated that you would be satisfied with either Mitt or Rudy since Santorum or big mouth couldn't make muster. Now, you're disavowing Rudy!!!

Good night Frosty....

Breakfast is being served,....later....

An egg muffin, a good cup of coffee and a Camel, it does not get any better than that!
Let's see, where were we. Oh, yes, my friends are not uneducated, they are just trying to "dumb down" to your comprehension level.
Hmmmmmmmmm It appears that "rj" has left the same time Frosty did. How about that!

It appears that the spit personalty troll has left the building.......

rj it you not me

I meant you. Get your beer?

Good morning fellow Democrats.

Good Morning Bob, Glad to see you here. I've been "debating" with the trolls for several hours. They can't debate very well. When they sense that they are loosing, they resort to the worst kind of low nastiness.

Bush rejects Bill Clinton idea

By: Mike Allen
Dec 20, 2007 11:44 AM EST

President Bush today rejected former President Clinton’s idea of a diplomatic repair mission by the next Clinton administration as unnecessary, and predicted that Republicans will win the presidency, anyway.

“I believe we will keep the White House,” he said twice at a pre-holiday news conference in the White House briefing room. “I believe ours is the party that understands the nature of the world in which we live and that the government's primary responsibility is to protect the American citizens from harm.”

Then the president, relaxed and happy after a string of unexpected victories from a Congress controlled by Democrats, went on to make a bold prediction shared by few strategists in his party: “I'm confident we can pick up seats in both the Senate and the Congress.” ...

Bwwwwaaahahahahaha... OK, I've got it under control, bwwwwwaaahahahahahaha, OK, maybe not. Mr. President, you have run this country and the office of the presidency into the ground. Your approval ratings are at roughly one-third and have been there for over a year. 85% of the world's population opposes you. Once again Mr. President, you are misleading the public.

Bush's legacy is secure. No one will ever be able to take it away from him. Worst president EVER!!

Posted by goodfoe on December 21, 2007 at 06:33 AM

Good morning, goodfoe. You're absolutely correct about the trolls. Frosty has the capability of carrying on a civilized debate but, he rarely uses this ability.

Baptists Not on Board

By Robert D. Novak
Thursday, December 20, 2007; A29

When Mike Huckabee went to Houston on Tuesday to raise funds for his fast-rising, money-starved presidential candidacy, a luncheon for the ordained Baptist minister was arranged by evangelical Christians. On hand was Judge Paul Pressler, a hero to Southern Baptist Convention reformers. But he was a nonpaying guest who supports Fred Thompson for president.

Huckabee greeted Pressler warmly. That contrasted with Huckabee's anger two months ago when they encountered each other in California. The former governor of Arkansas took issue then with comments by Pressler, a former Texas appeals court judge, that Huckabee had been a slacker in the war against secularists within the Baptist church.

The warmth in Texas and hostility in California reflects the dual personality of the pastor-politician who has broken out of the presidential campaign's second tier. Huckabee can come across as either a Reagan or a Nixon. More than personality explains why not all his Baptist brethren have signed on the dotted line for Huckabee. He did not join the "conservative resurgence" that successfully rebelled against liberals in the Southern Baptist Convention a generation ago.

Criticism from co-religionists stands apart from criticism by the Club for Growth, the Cato Institute and the Arkansas Eagle Forum of Huckabee's 10 big-government, high-tax years as governor. Because no Republican candidate since Pat Robertson in 1988 has depended so much on support from evangelicals, opposition by Huckabee's fellow Southern Baptists is significant.

Huckabee's base is reflected by sponsors of Tuesday's fundraising luncheon (requesting up to $4,600 a couple) at the Houston home of Steven Hotze, a leader in the highly conservative Christian Reconstruction movement. State Rep. Debbie Riddle was the only elected official on the host committee, most of whose members were not familiar names in Texas politics. David Welch is executive director of the Houston Area Pastor Council. Jack Tompkins heads a firm providing Internet services to the Christian community. Entrepreneur J. Keet Lewis is an active Southern Baptist...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/19/AR2007121901856_pf.html

I guess Gov. Huckabee (R-AR) can't be all that bad if the hard core Evangelicals are wary of him. Still, this one gives me the creeps. I do not want a POTUS bound and determined to make us live a 1963 "Leave it to Beaver" lifestyle.

Posted by BobVADemHawk-Biden2008 on December 21, 2007 at 06:46 AM....Frosty does have the ability but he can get very mean spirited at times....have you always been backing Biden? I thought awhile back you were supporting someone else.

I hear Frosty's family has a bigger carbon footprint than Gore's. And he talks about Hillary? No wonder he's jealous of Al Gore.

Posted by BobVADemHawk-Biden2008 on December 21, 2007 at 06:51 AM....Bob, if Huckanuckelhead were elected and could pull it off, he would have us all living in a "Christian Theocracy" that would be worse for us than it is now for real Christians living in Saudi Arabia under an Islamic Fundamentalist Theocracy.

I think that Rudy is going to fold. He can't stand the heat. Too much baggage. Which will leave Mitt, Fred and the Huckster in which case the Huckster wins it going away. The real danger in the Huckster is that he is a very polished speaker and can be very charming when he wants to be. He's a very real threat, especially if Hillary gets the nomination. She will galvanize the right and with the Huckster, they will have a candidate. I think Hillary can beat him but it will be tough, as would be for Obama. I think Edwards has the best chance of beating any Republican candidate, but he is going to have to show more strength real soon.

Posted by goodfoe on December 21, 2007 at 06:53 AM

I held out hope for VP Gore until about summer. IMHO, a Gore/Obama or Gore/Richardson ticket would've been unbeatable. I started supporting Sen. Biden (D-DE) around Labor Day. I'm torn between Richardson and Obama as a second choice.

Sure looks like the Repugs are most afraid of Edwards. I don't blame them. Edwards is the real populist, he has very high positive numbers, and he can win in the South.

And since health care is such an important issue, more important than "terrorism," Rupublicans sure don't want to debate the issue with the proven lawyer who has ACTUALLY fought the HMO/insurance crooks in court. Can you imagine... Edwards could say "shove it with your terror mongering, MOST AMERICANS are in fear of the greedy insurance and HMO companies."

I'm sure the Repugs would rather talk about the Scaffe-Mellon lies of the 90's, or Obama's lack of leadership and unknown history.

The new GOP campaigning motto: "Anything but the facts, maam. Anything but the facts." It's the "Muck-DragNet stategy."

Good Friday Morning, Fine Dems! 24 degrees and cloudy in Upstate.

I think VP should be picked based on who is next most qualified, and offers balance to the ticket.

IMO, since Obama is not qualified to be President, I don't think he's qualified to be VP.

Gore, Richardson, or Clark are the best picks.

Bush Scandals List

because there are just too many scandals to remember

http://www.netrootsmass.net/Hugh/Bush_list.html

Posted by Big_Yellow_Dog on December 21, 2007 at 07:25 AM.....You're good! I wish I had said that!...The Reptiles sure don't want any part of Edwards. The stories that have been planted lately have Karl Roves finger prints all over them.

Morning Cyn, Big, Bob and JohnBoy,

It's 41 and windy. We are flying out of here Saturday and guess what. There is a winter storm warning. Just what we needed.

The trolls stole rj's name early this morning. They need to grow up.

Yellow dog and johnboy, I agree about Edwards.
So long as the so-called media was obsessing about Hillary and Obama, Edwards was flying under the radar of folks that get their news of MSM. Now that is looks like a viable candidate, it's swiftboat time.

Posted by Big_Yellow_Dog on December 21, 2007 at 07:33 AM....How about Dodd or Biden as a VP?...Just asking your opinion....At this point I have no opinion on the VP situation.....

Johne, 41 degrees? That's spring weather where I come from.

Good morning Cyn and JohnE

Feb 5th Primary ballot order for NY

The State Board of Elections has decided the ballot order for the upcoming presidential primary on February 5th.

1. Hillary Clinton
2. Bill Richardson
3. Joe Biden
4. John Edwards
5. Barack Obama
6. Dennis Kucinich

Central VA reports 40F and partly cloudy.

Good morning Dems!

Just starting on the news...hopefully there is something more to read than another Chicken Little/Sky is Falling story about the Teen Spears pregnancy

Morning, Goodfoe!

Good grief, Bob, your weather is spring like as well! What am I doing in New York....

Posted by Johnedwrd on December 21, 2007 at 07:41 AM
They were a couple of nasty little dipsticks this morning...

So far it has been warmer this winter by just a few degrees overall. Past Decembers have brought lows of 10 degrees. So far this December the lows have been 15 degrees. Thumbing my nose at bush. No global warming. Humph! Piss up a rope bush.

Sixteen states may join in the fight against bush's and his crony running EPA. The terminator is furious that bush has denied the sixteen states requests to require automakers to raise emission standards.

He is going to court along with Oregon and Washington and is going to stick it up bush's lying ass.

I know the terminator is a repuke but I like his style. He tells bush to shove it whenever he can. I imagine Maris Shriver is a strong influence on many of his opinions. After all she is related to the Kennedy family.

I hope he kicks cowboys butt.

Posted by Cyn_NY on December 21, 2007 at 07:42 AM

Former Sen. Edwards (D-NC) desperately needs to win IA and have at least a third place finish in NH to be viable. If he can win IA, finish second in NH and SC, and then have a good showing in NV, he could have a real shot on 5FEB09.

(NYT)In 1998, Bill Richardson, then the United States ambassador to the United Nations, flew to Japan in search of backing for potential military strikes in Iraq.

Landing in Tokyo, he asked how a previous session, conducted by his boss, Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright, had gone. Not well, Mr. Richardson learned. Dr. Albright’s Japanese counterpart requested permission to smoke, she lectured him on the dangers of tobacco, and things never improved from there.

So Mr. Richardson began his meeting with a question.

“Mind if I smoke?” he asked, pulling out the cigar he had tucked into his jacket a moment before. He left Japan with the assurances for which he had come.

Now Mr. Richardson, 60, is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, running not only on his years as an elected official — he was a congressman from New Mexico and is now governor — but also on his parallel career, as a self-appointed and official diplomat. He argues that no Democratic candidate has as much international experience and puts withdrawal from Iraq at the center of his pitch. A recent New York Times/CBS poll puts him a distant fourth in Iowa, New Hampshire and nationally, leading to speculation that he could end up as a vice-presidential nominee or in a cabi