PB Rescue Open Thread
Read them all, then chat away...
Comments (244) «
What are you looking at?
Fellow Democrats, I ask this question for a very good reason. Exactly, who is reading this post? Those of us who post here on a regular or semi-regular basis know there are about a hundred, or so, of us that fall into one category or the other. We average anywhere between five and twenty posts per day. Most are fairly innocuous. We’ll give our take on the news of the day, bash the Republicans as they bash us on their web sites, and forge relatively strong professional respect and bonds with our fellow bloggers. Of course, we do not agree all the time. Someone once said politics is like ordering pizza for a large group of people. While you’ll agree that your proverbial pizza will have a crust and cheese, all the other toppings are open for debate and you’ll never be able to make everyone happy.
But who else is reading this post? The DNC, to the best of my knowledge, does not post statistics relative to the amount of visitors to this website. I do not see a counter of any sort. Therefore, we bloggers don’t know exactly. And that bothers me.
If we knew that this was a private access blog, that no one could read this without an access code(s) that would be one thing. We wouldn’t, or shouldn’t, have to worry about what we said under those circumstances because, it would only be us here or it would have little or no bearing in the real world just like the conversations you have with your friends or loved ones. But that is not the case.
Before I go any farther, let me state for the record that I, or any of the rest of us bloggers, to the best of my knowledge, are not fully sanctioned members of the DNC. We are simply here to express our views and support the Democratic Party and \ or its ideals. We created our accounts and, to date, the moderators have not sent us away into the vast depths of cyberspace. Having said that, we are posting on the web log of the Democratic National Committee and that should carry some responsibility.
At the beginning of the twenty-first century, perception is everything. In a nation where over half of the electorate does not know their two U.S. senators and over 75% do not know their House Representative, is the average person who comes here really going to distinguish us bloggers from the DNC? I think not. For those that disagree, go watch a segment of “Jaywalking” on the Tonight Show or listen to Glenn Beck’s Moron Trivia. Granted, they air the worse case scenarios however, I would point out that these people displayed have the same right to vote in the United States that you and I do. It’s darn scary, isn’t it?
Therefore, I would ask my fellow, regular DNC bloggers to be mindful of what you post over the course of the ten months, or so. The primaries are here. And while the General Election is not scheduled until November, every vote counts. Before you click that Post button you should ask yourself two questions. Could this post get any potential votes? How many potential votes will this post lose? Like it or not, agree with it or not, we DNC bloggers are the de facto faces of the DNC to the lurkers who do not comprehend that we are ordinary citizens like them posting on one of millions of web logs. It is my recommendation that, when we get fed up with President Bush’s latest assault on reason or Vice-President Cheney’s latest attempt to subjugate the planet, we vent our anger on a partisan blog such as DailyKOS or Atrios. I have an account at the Politico. They are more fitting places to call an a**hole an a**hole. Here at the DNC blog, we should try to take the same tact that our elected leaders do. We can respect the offices without respecting the office holder. We should show some civility to our fellow Americans, when deserved. Trolls deserve no civility because they do not give such.
In the four years that I have posted here, I have found that most of my fellow Democratic bloggers are thoughtful, intelligent people who want more than anything else, a better America to leave to their progeny. That is the goal of every decent American citizen. It would appear that half of us have one way to accomplish that and half have another. Such is the nature of politics. We settle our disagreements on strategy in the voting booths across this great nation of ours. And because we settle those agreements in the voting booth, every vote counts.
Today, I challenge my colleagues to take their political commentary to a new level. Let’s leave behind the cheap shots and name-calling and replace it with the thoughtful, insightful dialogue we are capable of. Let’s give new bloggers the benefit of the doubt and engage them in a respectful manner until they actually say something that is not respectful. And let’s kick the snot out of the GOP in 2008! After all, the world is watching…
pLS. EXCEPT MY APOLOGIES ON THE ABOVE POST @ 6:24. I AM NOT GOOD AT MULTI-TASKING, I WAS ALSO INSTANT MESSAGING MY DAUGHTER AT THE SAME TIME. pLS EXCUSE ME!!!
Pam:
From the previous thread, backing up your statement about the Trade Deficit:
According to the United States Speaker of the House Fact Sheet as of 11/29/07, our trade deficit was $380 Billion and growing.
Hope23: I just saw your post on the prev. blog. If you enjoyed the article by Dr. Stiglitz, you may want to go over to www.truthout.org or the NY Times site and read the work of Dr. Paul Krugman. I got totally 'hooked' on reading his work after reading "The Conscience of a Liberal."
I don't know if you saw my earlier post but Dr. Krugman won the "Clark Medal" which is the highest prize awarded (internationally) for economics. Dr. Stiglitz won the Nobel Prize for economics.
We had a deficit when bill took over after ray-gun and his stars wars crap and HW's war with Iraq. It took Bill to balance the budget and give us a surplus.
Hillary will do the same thing and get us out of Iraq and give us health care for every citizen in the United States.
Posted by PamB on January 31, 2008 at 06:02 PM
Welcome Back Pam! Even the trolls missed you. We stopped feeding them too while you were gone and now they're hungrier than Limbaugh on the downside of an oxycontin binge.
BTW, Bob, impressive post. I hope that others will be so moved.
PRINCETON, NJ -- Initial indications show support for John McCain is increasing following his win in the Florida presidential primary and the subsequent withdrawal of Rudy Giuliani, who endorsed McCain. Gallup Poll Daily tracking data from Jan. 28-30 shows McCain with a 15-percentage point lead over Mitt Romney. McCain is the top choice of 37% of Republican voters nationwide, compared with 22% for second-place Mitt Romney. In Wednesday's release, the gap between McCain and Romney was 11 points (32% and 21%, respectively). Mike Huckabee is holding steady in third place at 17% in the current numbers. Giuliani was included in the Jan. 28 and 29 interviewing, but removed from the ballot last night. The one-night interviews from Jan. 30 -- with Giuliani out of the race -- show a substantial increase in McCain's support, suggesting his lead will likely expand in the coming days. Wednesday night's interviewing also was the first conducted following McCain's win Tuesday in Florida.The latest Democratic numbers show Hillary Clinton with a 43% to 39% advantage over Barack Obama among Democratic voters nationwide. That four-point lead is the narrowest since early January, and it is a continuation of gains by Obama. The impact of John Edwards' exit from the Democratic race is less clear. Wednesday night's numbers (the first with Edwards excluded from the ballot) show no clear indication that either candidate is benefiting disproportionately. Clinton and Obama will debate in California tonight, which could affect Democrats' support for the two candidates going into the weekend before Super Tuesday's primaries and caucuses. -- Jeff Jones
http://www.gallup.com/poll/104071/Gallup-Daily-Tracking-Election-2008.aspx
All the charts and graphs can be viewed by clicking the link. What do they show? I think Sen. Clinton can now hear the footfalls of the future getting closer, and closer, and closer....
I keep telling my daughter to drop spanish and take up cantonese.
I'm Voting for a Democrat in NovemberPosted by Growingold on January 31, 2008 at 06:31 PM
this would be funny, if it were not so very frightening and close to the truth!
There are other ways for countries to destroy the USA besides suicide pilots! Buying up the country, loaning money until we are in so much hock to them they could bankrupt us. This is a REAL problem. China has NEVEr been any friend of the USA. Now we have no option but to kiss their butts.
Totally off topic, but Blue are you guys getting hit with all this snow? While we don't have any, they can't get either of the passes cleared enough for safe passage and so we are virtually cut off from the East side of the state.
Some real numbers:
From the Bureau for Economic Analysis:
Real GDP Growth during Pres. Clinton's term:
4.09% over 8 years
during dub's term:
2.65 % over 7 years
From the Department of the Treasury:
National Debt at the end of 1999 was $5.7 Trillion
Now = $9.2 Trillion and counting!
From the Bureau of Labor Statistics:
Jobs created over the term of Pres. Clinton
an average of 1.76 MILLION per year
under the dub
an average of 369 Thousand per year
The economy grew at an unprecidented rate under Pres. Clinton and for the FIRST time in history, the rate of gain for the poor out-performed the rate of gain for the wealthy!
Berkeley gives Marines the boot City Council says recruiting station not welcome; military mum for now By Doug Oakley, STAFF WRITER Article Last Updated: 01/31/2008 02:37:38 PM PSTBERKELEY — Hey-hey, ho-ho, the Marines in Berkeley have got to go.
That's the message from the Berkeley City Council, which voted 6-3, with Gordon Wozniak, Betty Olds and Kriss Worthington dissenting, to tell the Marines that its Shattuck Avenue recruiting station "is not welcome in the city, and if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome intruders."It also voted 7-2, with Wozniak and Olds dissenting, to explore enforcing its law prohibiting discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation against the Marines and to encourage the women's peace group Code Pink to protest in front of the station.
In a separate item, the council voted 8-1 to give Code Pink a designated parking space in front of the recruiting station once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week from noon to 4 p.m.
Councilman Gordon Wozniak opposed both items.
The Marines have been in Berkeley for a little more than a year, having moved from Alameda in December 2006. For about the past four months, Code Pink has been protesting in front of the station.
"I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don't belong here, they shouldn't have come here, and they should leave," Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates said after votes were cast.
A Marines representative did not respond to requests for comment...
http://www.insidebayarea.com/ci_8127493?source=rss
I would respectfully remind the residents and elected officials of Berkley, CA that it is the United States Armed Forces that guarantee their right to protest in the United States. Their treatment and total disrespect of our soldiers, sailors, and Marines is reprehensible, at best, IMHO. While I can appreciate Code Pink's exercising of their First Amendment rights, their rhetoric and tactics fall on deaf ears here.
The far right have their embarassments in the form of Ron Paul, Sen. Inhofe (R-OK), Karl Rove, and others. We have ours as well.
PamB, we do have options.
For one don't buy anything made in China. I Know it's hard to find US made goods, but made in any other country would do.
For two avoid buying at Wal-Mart whenever possible.
For three, we need to start paying down the national debt, which means taxing the rich.
For four, there needs to be pressure put on Congress to do away with China's favored nation status.
We should demand that China let its currency float and not keep it artificially low.
We should also continue to demand that China stop it's piracy business.
Those would be good starts, especially since China is using the profits to build up its war machine, and not for the benefit of the Chinese people.
We should tax the shipment of scrap metal to China too. The last time we sent large amounts of scrap metals overseas, we got it back in the form of bombs. Remember Pearl Harbor, don't let history repeat itself.
Posted by BlueinIdaho on January 31, 2008 at 06:39 PM
Posted by hope23 on January 31, 2008 at 06:44 PM
Thank you, ladies. I, too, appreciate all that y'all have to offer even when we disagree. That's what makes our nation and our party stronger.
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama_for_POTUS_2008 on January 31, 2008 at 06:22 PM
Bob:
Eloquent post. Thank you for reminding me!
Posted by Butte on January 31, 2008 at 07:01 PM
Well said! China is only our friend as long as we buy their cheap knock-offs.
Posted by Kristen on January 31, 2008 at 06:48 PM
what state are you in?
Welcome Back Pam! Even the trolls missed you. We stopped feeding them too while you were gone and now they're hungrier than Limbaugh on the downside of an oxycontin binge.
Hiya Blue ! LOL !
I figure we have 278 days left till Election. I will not let the sickos distract me from my mission which is to make sure the Democrats not only take over the WH, but also the majority of the Senate so we can kick Lieberman's ass to the curb and we can get our Liberal adjenda back on track!
they think they are sore losers Now? they ain't seen anything !
Posted by Butte on January 31, 2008 at 07:01 PM
I agree totally! I would like to add to the list:
Enforce the Country Of Origin Labels (COOL) Laws!
does anyone know if you can watch the debate tonight online?
How exciting is this. We have such great candidates.
I love both of them. Dems taking back America is good for America!!!!!
Hey, anone know if you can watch tonights debate online anywhere?
Posted by Butte on January 31, 2008 at 07:01 PM
Oh, there are options, Butte, but finding someone who will implement them is what is hard !
It makes me sad that there are Americans who have supported republicans over the years, because Republicans kept repeating that Democrats will raise their taxes! What these poor gullible slobs don't realize is, that Borrowing the money from another country to pay for our needs, is like credit card debt! It may be postponed, but it does not go away.
have a nice evening, Bob.
Sorry for the length of this one, but it is too good not to post:
Republican House incumbents dropping like flies
Submitted by BuzzFlash on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 11:20am. Be-Elected
There is much glee these days when looking at the prospects in the House of Representatives. No one thinks the Democrats will lose control of the House, and will likely gain a few seats. (Whether Nancy Pelosi has done a good job leading those troops is for a different discussion).
Republicans are naturally inclined to work hard to try and take back seats they feel are only "temporary," either because a long-term incumbent retired in a district and they feel it's "rightly theirs." Or districts that flipped to the Democratic side due to scandal, e.g., Mark Foley.
So money, time, and sacrifice will be spent there, even though the Democrats appear to have more money. But Republicans are going to also need to spend money in districts where long-time Republicans placeholders are leaving.
Earlier this week, The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee sent out a release Tuesday noting that Rep. Ron Lewis is the fourth House Republican in four business days who is "heading for the door" and the 27th this cycle.
The update now includes Rep. Tom Davis (R-VA), who had been a possible candidate to run for Senator John Warner's seat (another Republican retirement). Davis is a Republican who is liked by some Democrats and would have given Mark Warner a serious run for the Senate seat. That retirement is huge, especially as the Democratic presidential candidate has a now better shot of winning Virginia in 2008.
And when those fights get ugly, Republicans have to spend more money and look foolish.Here's a more complete list, Democratic and Republican, of who is saying "bye-bye" to Congress.
Despite the glee, there is a lot of work to be done. The Republicans are very angry about losing control of the House. Ask Democrats in 1996 how angry they were (well, as angry as Democrats can get, apparently).
Whoever the Democratic Party nominee is, this person needs to understand that coattails are crucial. Getting a larger majority in the House is vital as well as gaining more senators. Right now, the MSM pundits say the Democrats have no shot at 60. Perhaps that's true, but 57 looks better than 51 with an asterisk.
No disrespect to Bill Clinton, but he didn't grasp this. The numbers in the House and Senate went down every single time he was in office. The vast majority of this country would agree that times were better when the Democrats controlled the House by a considerable margin.
Say what you will about Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid (and you will), but their jobs become much easier with a Democratic president AND larger majorities in their chambers.
have a nice evening, Bob.
Sorry for the length of this one, but it is too good not to post:
Republican House incumbents dropping like flies
Submitted by BuzzFlash on Thu, 01/31/2008 - 11:20am. Be-Elected
There is much glee these days when looking at the prospects in the House of Representatives. No one thinks the Democrats will lose control of the House, and will likely gain a few seats. (Whether Nancy Pelosi has done a good job leading those troops is for a different discussion).
Republicans are naturally inclined to work hard to try and take back seats they feel are only "temporary," either because a long-term incumbent retired in a district and they feel it's "rightly theirs." Or districts that flipped to the Democratic side due to scandal, e.g., Mark Foley.
So money, time, and sacrifice will be spent there, even though the Democrats appear to have more money. But Republicans are going to also need to spend money in districts where long-time Republicans placeholders are leaving.
Earlier this week, The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee sent out a release Tuesday noting that Rep. Ron Lewis is the fourth House Republican in four business days who is "heading for the door" and the 27th this cycle.
The update now includes Rep. Tom Davis (R-VA), who had been a possible candidate to run for Senator John Warner's seat (another Republican retirement). Davis is a Republican who is liked by some Democrats and would have given Mark Warner a serious run for the Senate seat. That retirement is huge, especially as the Democratic presidential candidate has a now better shot of winning Virginia in 2008.
And when those fights get ugly, Republicans have to spend more money and look foolish.Here's a more complete list, Democratic and Republican, of who is saying "bye-bye" to Congress.
Despite the glee, there is a lot of work to be done. The Republicans are very angry about losing control of the House. Ask Democrats in 1996 how angry they were (well, as angry as Democrats can get, apparently).
Whoever the Democratic Party nominee is, this person needs to understand that coattails are crucial. Getting a larger majority in the House is vital as well as gaining more senators. Right now, the MSM pundits say the Democrats have no shot at 60. Perhaps that's true, but 57 looks better than 51 with an asterisk.
No disrespect to Bill Clinton, but he didn't grasp this. The numbers in the House and Senate went down every single time he was in office. The vast majority of this country would agree that times were better when the Democrats controlled the House by a considerable margin.
Say what you will about Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid (and you will), but their jobs become much easier with a Democratic president AND larger majorities in their chambers.
ANOTHER DEMOCRATIC DEBACLE
Since 1972, Democrats haves been very good at nominating their worst candidate and surest loser for the general election! The list is memorable: George McGovern in 1972 with Republican dirty tricks on Ed Muskie helping, Michael Dukakis in 1988, John Kerry in 2004. WHEN WILL WE EVER LEARN? Well, it’s time for another debacle and an election that only the Democrats could lose! With about one minute of thought, it’s clear that the Republicans can smear Barack Obama with their standard weapon of fear so bad that lofty words and debate will be meaningless. Osama will be lucky to get 35 % of the vote. The Islamic candidate:
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Osama
Barack HUSSEIN Osama
Barack HUSSEIN Osama
Barack HUSSEIN Osama
Barack HUSSEIN Osama
Osama’s Obama
After hearing this 10,000 times, who would you vote for?
Posted by Kay-Wisconsin on January 31, 2008 at 07:15 PM
Hi Kay, CNN will be streaming it live
ANOTHER DEMOCRATIC DEBACLE
Since 1972, Democrats haves been very good at nominating their worst candidate and surest loser for the general election! The list is memorable: George McGovern in 1972 with Republican dirty tricks on Ed Muskie helping, Michael Dukakis in 1988, John Kerry in 2004. WHEN WILL WE EVER LEARN? Well, it’s time for another debacle and an election that only the Democrats could lose! With about one minute of thought, it’s clear that the Republicans can smear Barack Obama with their standard weapon of fear so bad that lofty words and debate will be meaningless. Osama will be lucky to get 35 % of the vote. The Islamic candidate:
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Obama
Barack HUSSEIN Osama
Barack HUSSEIN Osama
Barack HUSSEIN Osama
Barack HUSSEIN Osama
Barack HUSSEIN Osama
Osama’s Obama
After hearing this 10,000 times, who would you vote for?
Hi all and nice to see you again PamB!!
Bob nice post and well said i will try very hard to be good.
Posted by JohnQCitizen on January 31, 2008 at 07:34 PM
uhnmmm, Johnny
It doesn't occur to you, that it will be up to ALL Democratics to set the record straight? That he has nothing to do with Islam and is no muslim and is not related to Obama nor Terrorism?
By repeating the Republican Line, by giving credance to their Trash talk, you merely feed their Smearing ! Get ready for the fight of our lives, whichever one of these two get the bid!
bbiab, dems.
Posted by JohnQCitizen on January 31, 2008 at 07:39 PM
shame shame shame
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama_for_POTUS_2008 on January 31, 2008 at 06:22 PM
Bob, I hope you read this at some point: thank you, thank you, sir.
Obama '08!
Pam JQ is a troll. I have saw this script 4-5 times today. Don.t engage
marymac_memphis,
Have you checked out my posting from this morning?
The heritage foundation a right wing think tank is attempting to justify the plundering of SSA, Medicare and Medicaid Trust Fund.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/SocialSecurity/em940.cfm
At the same time the Social Security Administration just released the 2007 Annual Summary of Social Security and Medicare Trust Fund Reports.
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/OACT/TRSUM/trsummary.html
According to the trust fund report there was billions in excess funds collected that were suppose to be invested for a rainy day!! Those Billions got plundered just last week by this President Bush and his cronies!! Those funds are already missing!!!
Please take a moment of your time and read about the Social Security Trust Fund summary report from 2007. Warning: You better sit down with a glass of wine before reading the Heritage Foundation frauduant accounting and plundering trust fund. Please send this information to everyone you know. This is your money and your trust account and your retirement and healthcare these people are plundering!!
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama_for_POTUS_2008 on January 31, 2008 at 06:22 PM
Great post, thank you!!!
Pam, Militant, HillWilliam:
You all probably already know about this but I saw it on an earlier blog.
There are 'paid trolls' and sometimes they get paid by the number of 'responses' that they generate.
I don't know if the idiots who post here are paid to do so or not, but, please keep in mind that responding to a troll - regardless of subject - you may be 'lining their pockets.'
Just one more reason to ignore them.
President Asshole speaking in Nevada today brought up the subject of clean energy. He said that his administration was working on the gasification of coal and the injection of the CO2 into the ground.
Tuesday, his moron crony cancelled an identical project in Illinois that Illinois has been working on for two years. The cheap crony said it will cost too much.
President Asshole has his head up his ass.
Every one ready for the debate? I'm praying for a clean debate with both sides taking the high ground. I'm all for Hillary but i could never say I'm against Obama. History will be made tonight and looked back on by many. I hope OUR canidates make themselves an example of how to engage the issues without disrespecting each other.
Posted by HybridFuel on January 31, 2008 at 07:51 PM
I will do that immediately. Thank you for the 'heads up!' I know that it will take time and energy- both of which are in short supply - we so need to impeach the entire administration - starting at the top and including 4-5 members of SCOTUS!
i guess i will have to watch some of this debate though they make me nervous, anxious and pissed off all at the same time....but this is a big event with the one on one aspect.
here is something for out arizona troll...
Western water woes tied to manmade warming
Study says 60 percent of changes over 50 years were due to human factors
updated 4:21 p.m. ET, Thurs., Jan. 31, 2008
WASHINGTON - People driving their cars, cranking on their air conditioners and switching on lights and dishwashers are responsible for most of the climate changes that are gradually drying up water supplies in arid and growing western states, a new study finds.
Those climate trends are likely to increase, threatening a water crisis in the western United States, says the study published Thursday in the journal Science.
The study is likely to add to urgent calls for action already coming from western states competing for the precious resource to irrigate farms and quench the thirst of growing populations. Devastating wildfires, avalanches and drought have also underscored the need...
Good evening. A snippet of an article from my favorite think tank - Campaign for America's Future:
Stealing Our Future II: Democracy, Fear, and the War on the Middle Class
By Sara Robinson
January 31st, 2008 - 9:47am ET
In one of the comments threads that discussed last week's first Stealing Our Future post, an astute commenter named Ohio Mom did a telling bit of class analysis:
I was reminded of the aphorism that the wealthy look to the past and the legacy they've inherited ("our family came over on the Mayflower"), the poor live in the present, but the middle class's orientation is the future, for which they work, scrimp and save. There may be a relationship between our giving up planning and our giving up on having a robust and large middle class. Just a thought...
Ohio Mom
It's a great thought, and one that deserves some further discussion.
Most government investment in planning, foresight, and creating new infrastructure is made with one of three goals in mind: to improve future quality of life, expand future economic opportunity, or minimize future exposure to risk. Peace, prosperity, and good order follow when everybody has clean water, nutritious food, and safe housing. Business thrives when workers have a basic education, goods arrive on reliable transportation networks, currency is stable, and contracts and property rights are consistently enforced. Our national well-being is secured by a sane defense and strong relationships with other nations; and our foresight in preventing or mitigating famine, blight, epidemics, and natural disasters.
On fronts large and small, Americans have always used government as an instrument to gather necessary information, make long-range plans, detect and respond to possible threats, explore new opportunities, and create the conditions that would allow as many of us to prosper as possible.
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/stealing-our-future-ii-democracy-fear-and-war-middle-class
================================================
Damn all of these conservative politicians. This crap started with Nixon and must end now. The conservatives have brought ruin to this country. Get rid of them.
Posted by marymac_memphis on January 31, 2008 at 07:54 PM
Hi Marymac and thanks for the tip! no troll bashing! well if you want to hurt a repug hit him in the billfold!!
Wow!
It just struck me!
I am going to be watching history in the making today.
The Obama - Clinton debate for the Democratic Candidacy of USA!!!
That's Living History!!!
Good evening, everyone.
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama_for_POTUS_2008 on January 31, 2008 at 06:22 PM
Bob,
Very insightful, Bob. You never lose sight of the prize.
I'm sorry I started feeding the trolls again. But there hasn't been too many posters willing to discuss the coming election without shouting at each other in the past few weeks. I
I appreciate other's passion for their candidate, but I'm personally not going to be persuaded by just rheteric. Have you noted the lack of links to back up these characterizations? Or links to anything being discussed about current events or issues?
The discussion has centered around personality, rumors, and distortions. Few have been willing to back up there assertions with documentation. That is always a sign that things have gone beyond reason.
I've done my share of it. I'll try to rein in my enthusiasm or lack there of for the various Democratic contenders still in the race.
However, when a Republican candidate is doing and saying things that don't make sense, I will fully vent my spleen.
Thanks for taking the initiative to restore order and some sense of perspective.
Hi Hybrid. Nice to 'see' you too.
Pam JQ is a troll. I have saw this script 4-5 times today. Don.t engagePosted by hope23 on January 31, 2008 at 07:49 PM
It is an ignorant post, hope, regardless of who says it.
Pam's home? No wonder BobVA is trying to mop up the mess before she looks at the archives.
Mary,
Thanks for the head up on the trolls. I keep getting myself suckered into those Circular Logic Go No Where Debate. I'm just getting too passionate about the Democratic party and the sense that we can truely win this time.
Keep the Faith!! United, we can WIN!!!
Posted by gregg on January 31, 2008 at 07:58 PM
Hiya gregg.
I laughed my freaken ass off this morning, as I watched McCain explaining what HE will do for 'climate control'! All those Repug idiots who like to pretend there is no Global warming, will end up with a candidate who admits there is Global warming (even though he likes to call it climate change), and says there has to be Corporate controls on Gases, etc !! What a SWEET thought that is!
Obama has opened up with the high road and called Hillary his friend !!
WTG
Hello all you good Dems.
Good to see you are all so energized today. I can hardly keep up with all the comments.
Snowing like crazy here. Good night to watch the next President of the United States.
SandyH,
Is that why BobVA posted the well thoughtout message?!?! Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...
Watching American History in the Making!!!
We are living it!!
Obama Clinton Debate!!
Pam's home? No wonder BobVA is trying to mop up the mess before she looks at the archives.
Posted by SandyH on January 31, 2008 at 08:05 PM
uh oh, Sandy. What did I miss?
Keep the Faith!! United, we can WIN!!!
Posted by HybridFuel on January 31, 2008 at 08:07 PM
Yes, Hybrid. You are right. We MUST get past this petty bickering over candidates and all jump on the same wagon. We have to take more house seats, plus as close to 11 Senate seats as we can get. With 20+ Republicans up for grabs, we should be able to do it.
Let's put on the gloves and come out fighting, but fighting the Republicans not each other !
Well, I'm watching the debate now and so far both Clinton and Obama have invoked Edwards' name. It makes me sad to watch. They've finally squeezed him out of the race and now they are comparing themselves to him. WTF is going on here?
I wish Hillary and Barack would compliment each other more. It would help them pull in the independent vote. Both are obviously very intelligent and well spoken. Both are obviously courting the Edwards vote tonight.
i could be perfectly happy with either of this bright people as president.
margot, both Clinton and Obama want Edward's supporters! I heard Edwards is waiting to see who to endorse, until one of these guys comes out and says they will continue his passion for helping get rid of Poverty !
Well, I'm watching the debate now and so far both Clinton and Obama have invoked Edwards' name. It makes me sad to watch. They've finally squeezed him out of the race and now they are comparing themselves to him. WTF is going on here?
Posted by margotb822 on January 31, 2008 at 08:21 PM
We all respect Mr. Edwards and I'm sure that both canidates wanted to show him love and respect tonight.
hey pam welcome back. i assume you were off in cuba helping to bring in the sugar cane harvest.
it is gonna be funny watching mccain try to grab the democratic issues while he slathers praise on the wing nuts....should be quite a dance....
I agree with Gregg.
These debates make me sooooo nervous. I always worry that someone will start sweating like a stuck pig (like Nixon did).
Well, as an Edwards supporter, I am watching this debate intently, but I don't want to be pandered to. I really need to know about these candidates. I do like this discussion about health care. I think it's an important issue (an I have full coverage through the military). I think its a top issue because it shows how much a candidate cares about America and making America a better place.
I wonder if any of the Repubelickens are watching Hillary and Barack? They should be worried... very worried.
gregg, actually, my good friend Senor Chavez had me down to stay in his Venezulean hacienda to shoot the shit and give him some advice! We thought Castro was coming to dinner, but unfortunetly he could not make it. :)
chicago...imagine romney or mccain trying to keep up with these two...hahahaha
pam, so you went with the younger dictator...good move....i have Tokyo Rose here with me as i write...
Wolf is trying to pick a fight between the candidates. Wolf Blitzer is a fool. He should stop it. Blitzer is an ass.
Posted by PamB on January 31, 2008 at 08:38 PM
Fidel still feeling under the weather? hate to hear that.
Pam,
I thought you were with Hu Jintao advising him on how stick more closely to the communist doctrine? Dang! I guess I was wrong.
j/k!
PS Word on the street is that Harpo is in Russia giving fascist pointers to Putin and Dmitri Medvedev...
Hello to all the Edwards Supporter,
Obama and Clinton have to be nice to Edwards. Edwards is most likely going to be the King or Queen maker. His supporter and organization is very important to Obama and Clinton. They need him to get past the threshold to defeat the Republicans. Keep the Faith. Edwards is like Obi-wan Kanobi after Darthvader struck him down, he is coming back stronger than ever!!
Wolf is trying to pick a fight between the candidates. Wolf Blitzer is a fool. He should stop it. Blitzer is an ass.
Posted by Chicago on January 31, 2008 at 08:47 PM
No he is giving the canidates a chance to rise above it!
WOW don't we look good tonight!!!
Obama and Hillary WTG, you both rock!
Fidel still feeling under the weather? hate to hear that.
Posted by TheMilitantDemocrat on January 31, 2008 at 08:49 PM
yes, but he sent me a large box of Cuban Cigars for my friends! And of course, Chavez gave me a free month's supply of Gasoline at any CITGO gas station! Love those guys!
No he is giving the canidates a chance to rise above it!
Posted by TheMilitantDemocrat on January 31, 2008 at 08:51 PM
Militant,
okay. I guess you could frame it that way. I still think Blitzer is a fool and a tool.
edwards is thinking about whether he would like the a.g. spot or the first supreme court opening...
To all,
Keep the faith!! We are going to win!! Remember the triple crown!!! Obama, Clinton and Edwards are all interconnected at the hip. They all need each other to get pass the threshold. Each one by themself is strong but as a team they are stronger.
If Edwards endorse Obama, he will become the Presidental candidate.
If Edwards endorse Clinton, she will become the presidental candidate.
If we can get all three on a ticket we cannot lose!!
It's a triple crown. Edwards just got stronger than every when he step down as a candidate for president!!!
United Color for Better Democratic America!!!
Gregg,
That is a great idea!!! I would love to see Edwards on the Supreme Court or as the Attoney General.
I can support that and that is a great idea!!
the question about buisness from politico was idiotic and both of their responses were quick witted, delightful and to the bone....superb!
I am really liking this debate. Both candidates are doing very well.
It great to watch history!! This is very exciting!!
I cannot contain myself!!
How can we get a triple crown on the ticket!!???!!
hybrid...well i think he may be able to get whatever he wants especially if this thing is unresolved when the convention starts.....
chicago....yeah it looks like the democrats may collectively know that the heck they are doing.....finally.....
I don't like these "debates" when the audience participates with their yelling and clapping. It's not a sporting event and it's a distraction. It encourages too many "cute" retorts & zingers and electing a president is too important for that sh-t.
How can we get a triple crown on the ticket!!???!!
Posted by HybridFuel on January 31, 2008 at 09:09 PM
Feeling you on this one !
And did you notice how both are take strides to not trash the other?
years from now we can tell our kids and grand kids about the "Great Debate"
I don't know if you like Clinton. I don't know if you like Obama. I don't know if you like them both. But Hilary just hit one out of the park with that one. Not at the expense of Barack.
It took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush administration. It might just take a Clinton to clean up after the current Bush administration.
Good one. Get out the pooper-scooper.
afternoon with clients, then dinner with family, then early evening back at work prepping for tomorrow, and now finally some free time to catch up on any new "informative" posts on the issues. Anything interesting come to the fore while I was otherwise occupied? Saw Olbermann and now watching Abrams doing his recap of debates.
I love our candidates!! They are rising above the propaganda!!!
We are the United Colors for a Better Democratic America!!
We see no color!
We see no race!
We see no gender!
We see no generation gap!
We only see Americans!!
United Colors for Better Democratic America!!
It took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush administration. It might just take a Clinton to clean up after the current Bush administration.
Good one. Get out the pooper-scooper.
Posted by Chicago on January 31, 2008 at 09:15 PM
I'm for Hillary but if Obama gets the win then i can't say I would be disappointed!
yeah, Greg: 9:05
I'm really tired of that Replican mantra about running a GOVERNMENT like a business. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING, you idiot Reps!
Barack does have a way with a phrase. Regarding Iraq,
"We should be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in."
marymac you sound like a typical paranoid democrat. No wonder you like Hillary so much, the vast right wing conspiracy fits right in with your paranoia. Just because someone disagrees with you, or doesn't come here every day, or doesn't support your candidate does not make them a troll. Now I agree there are some people here who post absolutely REDICULOUS and VILE things ,and may very well be trolls. However,I also believe one of the great things about being a Democrat is that we can disagree, we can fight amongst ourselves, but come go time we are ALL DEMOCRATS!!!!
marymac you sound like a typical paranoid democrat. No wonder you like Hillary so much, the vast right wing conspiracy fits right in with your paranoia. Just because someone disagrees with you, or doesn't come here every day, or doesn't support your candidate does not make them a troll. Now I agree there are some people here who post absolutely REDICULOUS and VILE things ,and may very well be trolls. However,I also believe one of the great things about being a Democrat is that we can disagree, we can fight amongst ourselves, but come go time we are ALL DEMOCRATS!!!!
Blitzer,
"Hillary, that's a clear swipe at you".
Wrong Blitzer, you ass.
Great job Hilary, not taking that bait.
I think it so difficult to choose because both these candidates are so strong and is getting to the message and rising above it all!!
This is the most wonderful debate I have ever heard. It's a message equal to the greatest speeches I have ever heard!!
Being that both candidates come across as being strong, for me it comes down to leadership qualities and how well each would be able to bring people together to accomplish things, rather than continuing divisive politics as usual.
Good Night to all,
I am going to sleep well tonight!!
Good Night HybridFuel or should i say GREAT NIGHT!!
Posted by justaguy on January 31, 2008 at 09:21 PM
justaguy,
I don't know who you are, but Marymac is certainly not paranoid. Her position consistently has been that both our candidates are very capable and that we should not bash one at the expense of the other. Look back at all her posts. I think you might have a different perspective if you look at them.
Chicago, all I have heard all day from her is, troll this and troll that. The whole paranoia is the reason people laugh at "liberals"(of which I am one). There is no vast conspiracy against the Clintons, there is no company who pays people to post on this sight, if there is I would love to see a link or story about it, would be kind of funny. The reason we have lost the last few Presidential elections is we put up weak candidates. This year we have 2 great nominees who will carry us to victory if we can just stay together.
Was just pointed out on Abrams roundup that Hillary and Barak have both voted the same way since being in the Senate....and that they don't differ that much in that arena. The difference there then becomes leadership and it was pointed out that Clintons have history of divisivenes and Barak's aim is to bring in new voters and to form a coalition of cooperation. This they say is the difference and it focuses on leadership.
Posted by justaguy on January 31, 2008 at 09:42 PM
We have trolls on here that are idiots. That is a fact. Marymac is not the only one who is aware of some of the tactics used by Republicans. Just stop attacking her an move on. We do have two GREAT nominees. Let's discuss that.
Hillary,
"We will have a unified Democratic party"
Right ON.
OMG! What a debate and show of unity in dem party! It's all I hoped and dreamed for. I want to cry with happiness.
Chicago I agree, I am just saying we Democrats are proud of our large tent which is big enough for everyone. The Republicans have RUINED our country and are threatening our democracy, so we may see more truly confused Republicans coming over here and I think we should try to include them and figure out why they are here and convince them to stay. I TOTALLY AGREE there are some idiots on here, but I think everyone with a brain can see who they are without us accusing the new people of being trolls or right wing tools (Stephanie Millers description of Chris Matthews). So come over all you disinfranchised Republicans, we would LOVE your vote and support.
The pundits analyzing tonight's debate are predicting that Edwards will endorse Obama but that his voters will back Clinton.
Lets take note of our canidates and follow thier example:
"We will( DO ) have a unified Democratic party"
justaguy:
Here is a link to a moderated forum for Dem voters where one is required to sign up for membership with username and password. You may find more useful debate there than here.
http://www.wikidemocrats.com/?t=anon
I think Hillary came out ahead tonight ( no surprise coming from me lol) but great debate!
And i hope this is the road map of both canidates to the convention. I wish we could have heard the remarks to each other at the end.
I think Hillary came out ahead tonight
==================
Funny her Iran vote did not come out [ahead]
justaguy: On that other forum board I gave you the link for just now, they have a quick vote of "if election was held today, who would get your vote." Results so far are Obama 31%, Clinton 22%, and interestingly, the next highest vote is for "holding out for Gore."
Let me ask a totally unrelated question. Has anyone ever heard of a scam where people sell extended car warranties? I just received a phone call about one and it seemed pretty suspicious to me.
very nice tonight. some substance and some push back by both to some of the inanities of the media....feel much better.
justaguy: Wow, on that other forum (wikidemocrats) there are all sorts of editing functions, ability to add photos, share links, and better forum tools (like instant quote and reply, etc). THE DNC should use whatever forum platform Wiki is using. It's better.
I will never go to a moderated websight, but thanks anyway. I like my speech free!
Obama '08
margotb822: Indeed. There are lots of them. The worst among them used to be Warranty Gold but I think they went out of business. Essentially, they sell you an expensive warranty with an expiration date that INCLUDES the miles driven to date (so you're only buying the difference). For example, they say they will sell you an extension of 100,000 miles OR 3 years but don't tell you that the miles already on your odometer count toward the 100,000 miles....so if you've driven 75,000 already, you're only buying 25,000 miles for the cost of a 100,000 mile extension.
Posted by margotb822 on January 31, 2008 at 10:15 PM
www.carbuyingtips.com/scams.htm
most scams are listed here including Warranty scams
FloridaDemVoter Stay Away From DNC Blogs
9 minutes ago
Wow, the kids over on the DNC website's blogs do more to drive away voters than engage in useful discourse or to bring in new members to the Party. Worst among them are a coffee clatch of young female attack dogs. Stay away from THAT forum. Happy to be on board here with you more enlightened folks! See for yourself!
Well, its nice to know your true feelings about this blog!
Just a question, what has anyone here ever done to you?
justaguy: I didn't see posts being removed...just active moderation of topics and flow...but then I noticed the last post to it was really dated. Bummer. I wish the tech folks here would utilize a better forum platform though. This one is so bad....majorly slow to update and load, no editing, no functions for inclusion of other file formats, no threading of topics....it's really cumbersome.
Posted by margotb822 on January 31, 2008 at 10:24 PM
FloridaDemVoter Stay Away From DNC Blogs
9 minutes ago
Wow, the kids over on the DNC website's blogs do more to drive away voters than engage in useful discourse or to bring in new members to the Party. Worst among them are a coffee clatch of young female attack dogs. Stay away from THAT forum. Happy to be on board here with you more enlightened folks! See for yourself!
-------------------------------------------------
ummmm, that's not me sweetheart. sorry. I didn't join it yet....still checking it out. I don't give out my email for spam to every forum that easily. Just exploring other options that have better forum technology.
Thanks for the info. I was surprised because I have never heard of anything like that before. What is this world coming to when people will call you to steal from you??
There is also another forum at democraticunderground.com that has better forum tools. Just more outlets for spreading the word. Why limit ourselves to one forum?
Ok, well I just thought this was quite a coincidence. And one worth pointing out. I am always up for new forums and new people though.
Posted by Chicago on January 31, 2008 at 09:23 PM
Chicagok,
The sexism card has been played for and against Senator Clinton throughout this campaign...just as the race card was thrown out before the South Carolina primary.
Blitzer was more blatant than usual with his sensational "journalism". This man will do anything to get a rise out of the candidates. I'm surprised that he didn't flip rubber bands at them or invite Rush Limbaugh to question them.
Why limit ourselves to one forum?
Posted by FloridaDemToo on January 31, 2008 at 10:35 PM
I think if I get any more involved on these sites, I'm going to have to get paid to be here!
Too much fun for one night!
It's been great and i will never forget this debate.
getting too old for this much excitment.
good night gentle Dems.catch you all later.
Posted by margotb822 on January 31, 2008 at 10:24 PM
Great Find!
As for his lame attempt to pretend it wasn't him don't believe it. The timing of his return here and his post there along with his bragging about the Wiki site all are just too coincidental.
Posted by margotb822 on January 31, 2008 at 10:15 PM
It's a scam. My Dodge dealer posted the typical letter on their bulletin board. I purchased the extended warranty from the dealer and I started getting these letters apparently from different scam artists. Take a copy to your dealer. Maybe they can take action to stop this scam.
margotb822: Well I'm just hoping that if I post enough links to other Dem forums with better forum tools that the DNC tech dept will get the hint and update theirs. No one uses this format anymore for forums (and it's NOT a blog even if they call it one because of the way it's structured and functions available). This one is miserable to use.
just, yes those are trolls. same old stupid trolls. we never get any news one's and the ones we get never get any new material....it's like they are acting out a satre play in our living room and we have to try to pretend they aren't there in order to have normal discussions. but they do make it difficult...maybe someday the gods will make them disappear. but of course they are quite upset as neither of their parties candidates are pleasing to them and as their own party takes up the problem of global warming ( albeit in it's lame way ) the trolls will become more and more infuriated....tsk, tsk.....and now they realize they are going to have to live with either woman or a man of african american and white heritage as their president....and that is really gonna make them foul.....
Tonight's debate the winner the Democrats, the losers the Republicans.
A couple of points to Hillary Clinton though, You can't say in one minute that each candidate has to stand on "THEIR" own record and each are running "THEIR" own campaign Then not 23 seconds later turn around and claim Bill Clinton's success as yours.
And the idea that somehow you were "tricked" into voting for the Iraq war. Come on, I didn't buy that answer when Kerry gave it 4 years ago and I'm not buying it now.
florida, i for one visit and contribute to a number of blogs but this one is where i started and where i have made friends with some folks and where i got motivated to work for various specific candidate sin my area the last two elections ( 04,06 )....so this one is home for me....drop in when you wish but those others are good places to be as well.
the wikidemocrats site isn't current so that's out but the democraticunderground.com site seems pretty active and has better forum posting tools. The discussions though are kind of all over the place but at least they are threaded.
Posted by FloridaDemToo on January 31, 2008 at 10:44 PM
I do wish this blog (or forum or whatever you want to call it) had more functions and supported more OS. I have a mac and it doesn't give me any of the link or text options.
You don't have to defend yourself with me. I am like a reporter; I find the news and get it out to the people. Its up to them to decide how they want to deal with it.
Well,
I don't come in here for the "tools" available. I come in here for the people and their ideas. There are a lot of great people with intersting perspectives. Informed, intelligent, imaginative and in some cases inspiring.
I am off to sleep.
Great debate tonight. The dems moved up a few points on the Repubelickens. Let them bicker.
speaking of traveling around this is a great line i found at a blog of the wapo:
"Giuliani is unhinged, and I'm glad to see him gone from the race.
The last thing we need is another passionate incompetent."
The Democrats did NOT cave in on the FISA bill! Important votes are coming up on Monday. Contact your Senators and Smith, Coleman, Sununu, Snowe, and others, and tell them you are in favor of all the Feingold amendments! This is a crucial time on the issue of telecom immunity.
Kristen: for heaven's sake. Check the IP addresses if you're so paranoid. Mine is 72.153.209.155 the other is 65.37.125.15. And if you don't know how to check that, it's not my problem.
Posted by FloridaDemToo on January 31, 2008 at 10:55 PM
furthermore, mine is a static address (that I pay for) and the other is a dynamic address (commonly assigned by most ISP's)
Posted by margotb822 on January 31, 2008 at 08:36 PM
margot,
I think health care is probably the biggest and clearest difference between the two candidates. This is the most important issue to most Democrats.
But we usually vote with our hearts not our heads when the differences are so close on most issues. This is the first election where there is a side issue which is beginning to overshadow the rest.
I thought it would be about gender or race. But let's be frank. It's Bill. We can't get around him because he step out of the shadows and put himself there.
I feel sorry for everyone concerned. It's injected something into this election that is driving us away from rationale reasoning. And I'm afraid that's where a lot of decisions are going to be made...especially when it becomes more obvious who the Republicans will run.
Who would have thought those later primaries would loom so large? Florida and Michigan took themselves out for nothing.
But both candidates did well tonight. I'm proud of them.
We who have not voted yet have a hard decision to make. I don't know what I'm waiting for....maybe for another shoe to fall? I wish I didn't have to worry about the third candidate in the room who isn't even running.
Good night, all.
Active legislation posted here: good for checking upcoming votes like FISAhttp://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/b_three_sections_with_teasers/active_leg_page.htm
as you mentioned the site requires registration to use and the FlordiaDemVoter registered on the Wiki site just about an hour ago, just about the same time of this post:
justaguy: Here is a link to a moderated forum for Dem voters where one is required to sign up for membership with username and password. You may find more useful debate there than here. http://www.wikidemocrats.com/?t=anonPosted by FloridaDemToo on January 31, 2008 at 10:00 PM
I don't care if you continue your nastiness about the DNC blog on other sites, I just think it is funny that someone found it so quickly.
furthermore, mine is a static address (that I pay for) and the other is a dynamic address (commonly assigned by most ISP's)
Posted by FloridaDemToo on January 31, 2008 at 10:59 PM
-----------------------------------------
and if you do a reverse DNC search on both IP's, mine is with bellsouth (now ATT) in Miami and the other is With Frontier Communications out of New York (so is most likely a transplanted New Yorker who has internet service through a NY ISP but is a registered FLvoter because they snowbird here)
sorry....meant reverese "DNS" search...not DNC (typo)
typical....running away again from false accusations. Sheesh!
I'm still here...just watching you scramble over your explanation.
I had a very disturbing realization today. I was thinking about the stuff we are doing in Iraq and I realized just how much more terrorism we are creating. Thing about it. Regular citizens are being forced to submit to inspections, photographing, fingerprinting and then the possibility of deportation to secret military prisons. How f'ing outrageous is that?!
What would happen if China began patrolling the Gulf of Mexico, stopping our fishermen, subjecting them to the same treatment we are now subjecting the Middle East to, and then shipping our citizens off to their prisons? We'd be at war! We would nuke the crap out of China (or any other country that tried that). We are lucky that Iran hasn't started a war with us, the way we are aggressing them.
We are only making the problem worse. I don't know if I can keep going on with this. The only hope I have is of electing a Democrat president who will stop this nonsense. We are not being good leaders. We are more of the problem than the solution.
I don't care if you continue your nastiness about the DNC blog on other sites, I just think it is funny that someone found it so quickly.
Posted by Kristen on January 31, 2008 at 11:06 PM
-----------------------------------
oh gee and that was so hard to do since I GAVE them the LINK! You're incredible.
After hearing this 10,000 times, who would you vote for?
Posted by JohnQCitizen on January 31, 2008 at 07:34 PM
John,
Is this a trick question??
Ahhhhhhhhhh ........ the democrat.
(I wonder if he'll be grading us on this stuff?)
Steve
I'm still here...just watching you scramble over your explanation.
Posted by Kristen on January 31, 2008 at 11:15 PM
just facts. I can't help it if you're not technologically savvy.
Posted by FloridaDemToo on January 31, 2008 at 11:14 PM
But honestly I do have something more important to do. My little guy is ready for his bed time story, maybe I'll tell him about the three Billy Goats Gruff and have it set in Florida...you know the one with the nasty troll.
Go to Blighty.com, download SamSpade...and check for yourself. See unlike some people here, I can substantiate what I say with proof.
blighty.com has become "samspade.org" since I downloaded my copy. Everyone go there and enter the two IP addresses I have posted here and see if I'm not correct in the origin of the two IP addresses....meaning TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE and ISP's.
YesWe Can: Thank you. At least someone here GETS IT.
But honestly I do have something more important to do. My little guy is ready for his bed time story, maybe I'll tell him about the three Billy Goats Gruff and have it set in Florida...you know the one with the nasty troll.
Posted by Kristen on January 31, 2008 at 11:19 PM
------------------------------
little one goes to bed after 11:00pm? THAT is more likely a "story" (or else you keep your little ones up too late for their own health)
Ok, well I just posted that. How coincidental that very a very similar user name posted nasty stuff on a different blog about DNC blog users. Look, I don't even know you, so I don't care what you post, but I think its very rude to bash people on a different site and complain about their attitudes in your post. Now, I also know that one can use proxy servers to disguise their location, so I don't put much faith in those. Anyways, I've had enough of you trying to dig your way out of this. So, let's move on to something meaningful
Posted by FloridaDemToo on January 31, 2008 at 11:28 PM
lol...the world isn't all set to the same clock old man. I'm on the West Coast and it is only 8:30 pm.
Maybe you could look up my ip address and tell me where I am.
edwards is thinking about whether he would like the a.g. spot or the first supreme court opening...
Posted by gregg on January 31, 2008 at 08:57 PM
Gregg,
The Attorney General, is Americas top cop. Maybe we should consider someone that's had a background as a prosecuter, for a spot like that. And as far as the Supreme Court is concerned, this may be the longest and most painful Bush legacy. We'll need a strong constitutional scholar, if the next president makes an appointment to the court.
As an Edwards supporter, for one day in Florida, this week...I am of the opinion that Senator Edwards, touched the soul of many of us with our roots in the Labor Movement. His passion for the poor and working class america...his background as a litigator, fighting negligent corporations. Do you think this might make him a great candidate for Secretary of Labor. It's a thought.
Although, I hope he takes timr over the next few months, to be with his family. He's worked very hard over the past couple of years. Both Elizebeth and her husband, have earned a rest.
What do yo think?
Steve
I'm still voting for a Democrat in November
little one goes to bed after 11:00pm? THAT is more likely a "story" (or else you keep your little ones up too late for their own health)
Posted by FloridaDemToo on January 31, 2008 at 11:28 PM
Well its only 8:30 here on the west coast.
proxy servers are displayed as such in a reverse DNS search. Neither of those IP's are from proxy servers.
Kristen just gets hers hackles all up when she's proven wrong....and then leaves.
Posted by Kristen on January 31, 2008 at 11:32 PM
----------------------------------------
good cover..but since you can be signed up with an independent ISP anywhere and live and access your ISP's home page from elsewhere, that proves nothing.
Indeed YesWeCan....and Kristen is so judgmental she has already assigned a gender to me without knowing me....and she's wrong about that too!
Well FTD, I've been posting here for 4 years and haven't been driven off yet.
I, unlike you, have a family that enjoys my company so you might call it running away, I call it quality time with my son and husband.
Good night!
You've been running your poison mouth off on here for four years? No wonder there aren't many "regulars" here.
Goodnight all. It has been history making.
Posted by YesWeCan on January 31, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Well, he's right about one thing. As I looked at that stage tonight, seeing Senators Clinton and Obama, I thought to myself the very same thing. "It has been history making"
Steve
Posted by YesWeCan on January 31, 2008 at 11:37 PM
Well, you obviously missed my point. The ip address is neither here nor there. If FDT says they want to discuss the issues, let's move on to that.
I wonder if this is our same "Kristen?" Her blog profile says she is in Pinellas County FLORIDA (not west coast)
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.democrats.org/page/community/blog/kristensblog
Kristen's Blog About the Author
I write about events and issues important to Florida Democrats, specifically in Pinellas County.
Page 1 of 2 | Next
Pity the Nation
By Kristen - Oct 2nd, 2007 at 3:35 pm EDT
A poem by Lawrence Ferlinghetti read on Democracy Now! (Pity the Nation):
Pity the nation whose people are sheep,
and whose shepherds mislead them.
Pity the nation whose leaders are liars, whose sages are silenced,
and whose bigots haunt the airwaves. Read More »
Is it possible that there could be TWO people registered here with the exact same username? Hmmmmm. NOT.
And on her profile here (About the Author) it says she is a high school student and too young to vote (but is married? with little ones? Ok maybe that profile was posted four years ago as she claims and now she is out of high school, married and a parent).
---------------------------------------------------
http://www.democrats.org/page/dashboard/public/gHbLZ
Kristen
Profile
Location: Seminole, FL
My Story: I am a high school student and too young to vote, but that doesn't mean I'm too young to make a difference!
Birth Date: June 30th
Issues: Civil Liberties; Civil Rights; Economic Growth; Education; Election Reform; Energy Policy; Environment; Good Government; Healthcare
Registered to Vote: No
Party Affiliation: Unaffiliated
Political Identification: Progressive
Is it possible there are TWO registered users here by the name of "Kristen?" Hmmmm, NOT.
Well, someone who has a blog name doesn't have to have a party builder profile, so yes, it is possible. They're separate usernames. See for yourself. I have a party builder profile, so it won't work for me, but check on some others.
sorry margotb822 but you are mistaken. The registration system is the same whether you are a blog poster or a PartyBuilder user. It's the same server system. I worked in web site building for years. Caught her red handed....and she'll guffaw about that too tomorrow when I call her out.
Her partybuilder posts and her blog posts track back to the same user IP.
....and she converses like a high school student (as the profile says she was at registration time) or someone shortly out of high school. Linguistics is very telling.
Hey Bob, that was a beautiful message.
It lasted about 7 minutes before people started complaining about trolls.
There are 26 troll mentions, between 6:22 and 11:22.
Probably would have been higher if not for the debate.
I have tried to be respectful. I have shared information that I have collected, not from some web site. I have tried to have a discussion with you guys. I think it's important to hash out some of the stuff about who the candidates really are.
I read an article today from the NYTimes that scared me about Bill and Hillary. It said some pretty horrible things that really frightened me. I tried to summarize it, but my head was reeling, and I didn't format it well.
It would have been a good place to calmly tell me that that information had been out (it hadn't), that the newspaper was missing another perspective. That's what I tried to do with Yellow_Dog, who so twisted my words it was clear that no discussion was meaningful.
You guys support Hillary! You've heard this stuff for years, you claim. It would have been good if you would have told me about it.
I have posted lots of stuff here, stuff that I've spent time thinking about and collecting. I liked this blog because it gave me a chance to get more of a dialog going than some of the other blogs.
What does an outsider get? Ignored, called a troll and ridiculous, even threatened, a juveline because Obama's supporters are juvenile (not true).
Why are you guys so obsessed with someone from the outside?
I thought it would be about gender or race. But let's be frank. It's Bill.
Posted by SandyH on January 31, 2008 at 11:01 PM
Interesting strategy. Billophobia overpowers the emotions of racism and misogyny. Whipping boy Bill, draws the big crowds and positively enthuses them too.
Ok, well I am not an expert. But, just because one has a blog ID doesn't mean that they have a party builder ID. So, you know I'm on the west coast, but what are you doing up so late? And not even talking about politics?
also, the internet search bots archive everything for years. Do a Google search or Yahoo search using "democrats.org" AND "Kristen" as your search string. There are no posts from four years ago as she claimed (or even further back than 2006) and the only Kristen associated with Democrats.org that comes up in the results is one and the same (the blogger and the partybuilder).
Posted by Kiku on February 1, 2008 at 12:33 AM
I'm sorry you feel like you are being targeted. I do like this blog because I think it provides a great opportunity to have discussions with people, almost like a chat room. Hang in there and keep defending your views and candidate.
lol...on the party builder site there are actually six people with the registered name Kristen, but on the blog there can only be one user per screen name. And no they are not the same system. Logging into one doesn't automatically log you into the other.
If you must know and it will make you feel better...I'm a 38 year old mother of 3 boys with one more on the way (due in April), I live in Washington state, about an hour outside of Seattle. My husband works union construction and right now is working on another hotel/condo high rise in Seattle. It seems the city can't get enough of these things.
I have been a Democrat my entire life, and by this I mean that at the age of 4 I was asking my mother to help me send my piggybank money to Green Peace, to help save the Fur Seals. I grew up with a Republican stepfather and a closet Dem. mother.
Now that I have to choose a candidate from my least two favorites I'm a bit stuck. I really would prefer not to vote for Hillary but will grudging do so if she gets the nomination in November.
margotb822: Curse of being a self employed business owner....you're never "off the clock!"
Posted by FloridaDemToo on February 1, 2008 at 12:32 AM
So, you know linguistics? How old do you think I am based on my posts (and no cheating by looking at partybuilder or googling)?
margotb822: well, I've got accounts due tomorrow and am only halfway through. Enjoy!
Hillary Clinton by far won that debate tonight and has proven once again that she is ready to lead and bring us change with the experience to fix our economy as well. To make a long story short, it's going to take another Clinton to clean up another Bush mess! Right on Hillary!
Check out this website:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=162149276
Here's our chance to motivate Latino Voters across the Nation to Vote for Hillary in the primary election!
http://www.latinosforclinton.com
On Monday, February 4, Hillary will answer Americans' questions in an unprecedented national town hall giving voters in Super Tuesday states the chance to make their voices heard. The town hall will air on Hallmark Channel and be streamed online at HillaryClinton.com. Hillary will anchor the town hall in New York, while President Bill Clinton, Chelsea Clinton, and national and local surrogates will serve as hosts at events in the other states. Do you have a question for Hillary?
See link below:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/action/townhall/
Hartford Courant
The Courant endorsed Hillary, saying, "In addition to her obvious intelligence, there is a a steel to this woman."
Watch the short video:
http://hillaryclinton.com/video/120.aspx
The stakes have never been higher in choosing our next president. You can depend on Hillary to protect our future.
Watch the video:
http://hillaryclinton.com/video/119.aspx
"Nuestra Amiga" señala que Hillary es la candidata que entiende tanto a la comunidad latina, como los problemas a los que se enfrenta –
falta de cuidado de salud, la crisis económica, y los altos costos de vida.
http://hillaryclinton.com/video/116.aspx
The New York Times endorsed Hillary, saying they were "hugely impressed by the depth of her knowledge." See more . . .
http://hillaryclinton.com/video/117.aspx
The Post News Group and El Mundo Endorse Hillary Clinton for Democratic Nomination
Publications include: Berkeley Tri City Post; El Mundo; Oakland Post; Richmond Post; San Francisco Post; and South County Post
Excerpts from the endorsement:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=5628
Former President Bill Clinton talks about Hillary's life of public service and why she's the right choice to be president. If your ready for change she is ready to lead.
Watch the video:
http://www.hillaryclinton.com/video/27.aspx
Can't decide between Obama and Hillary? Vote Nader http://www.naderexplore08.org
Posted by cicero on February 1, 2008 at 12:46 AM
No way, dude. We're not going to let him ruin this again. Let's not be selfish. Let's practice compromise and start right now. I still believe in Edwards' message, but I have accepted that he will not me the carrier of that message (for now). I am willing to accept other candidate because they believe in our cause and have the power to get it done. Nader only has the power to divide. Accept that and move on.
I am new here. Where is the best place to start reading up and getting current?
Kiku,
I think it just takes a while to be recognised as someone that won't suddenly flip a mask off and laugh at vulnerability and goodwill. The name of this place is kicking ass, however, and unfortunately seems like an open invitation for partisan troublemakers. It is a bit strange, but can be quite entertaining and educational too. Overly defensive because a lot of weirdos do show up here and many times it is in a game of craftiness and deception, but friendly and tolerant and curious as well. Pachyderm it for a few months here and see, if you think I'm funning you.
did any one notice the big sigh of obama's when Hillary gave the run down of her 35 years experience. you can definitely see it. you can see for yourself at hillary's web site. She does have loads of experience and has accomplished many great things in her lifetime as obama has also.
Hello margot,
I am curious about military opinions on the extensive network of US military bases around the world. Have you read, or is it even a topic of discussion, The Sorrows of Empire?
Good evening all,...I was working and did not get to see the debate. I understand it was rather cordial. That's a step in the right direction.
Maya Angelou's poem
in praise of Hillary
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2243668,00.html
Maya Angelou, the African-American poet who is one of the most influential and respected literary voices of the modern age, has written a poem praising Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign for The Observer.
Angelou is steadfast in her loyalty to Clinton. She said recently: 'I made up my mind 15 years ago that if she ever ran for office I'd be on her wagon. Angelou was recently voted one of the 10 most admired women in America, in a poll topped by Hillary Clinton.
Don't give up on Hillary. In fact, if you help her to rise, you will rise with her and help her make this country the wonderful, wonderful place where every man and every woman can live freely without sanctimonious piety and without crippling fear. Rise, Hillary.
Is anyone else here having a problem with refreshing this page? I have to keep logging out and in to get new posts. What's up with that? Or is this like the Yahoo and Google meesage forums that take forever to update?
Posted by Dem4Prez08 on February 1, 2008 at 01:09 AM
It can be slow to update at times.
Posted by TomN on February 1, 2008 at 01:01 AM
I'm not familiar with the Sorrows Of Empire. There are lots of opinions, and most are dejected. I think that people who are in theater are feeling the effects of failed foreign policy more than most. I'd love to talk about it more in depth, but I have to run right now.
I can't speak for any of the other Democrats here, but I will not be voting for Nader. Both Obama and Clinton are so far above him, he isn't equipped to carry either of their briefcases.
Guess no one is here and I'm talking to myself like a crazy person. LOL! Bye.
Posted by cicero on February 1, 2008 at 01:18 AM
It's kinda like Ford automobiles, when better cars are built, Ford will build them. I don't drive foreign made cars. I was a union bricklayer for many years and have been active in the Democratic Party off and on for many years, When I was on those picket lines with my black brothers way back in the early '70's, I don't remember seeing Nader out there risking getting his ass shot by goons from management. When better solutions to the problems of this country are brought about, it will be Democrats who do it. Nader is just a spoiler who is only interested in his own aggrandizement. As a Progressive, I will remain in the Democratic Party and work for Progressive issues here.
Ready to have your microchip implanted into your forehead? Will you question authority's right to demand that you identify yourself and stand up for your rights? Or are you of the authoritarian persuasion that willingly desires security at any humiliating or slavish cost? Biometrics, look out, there is big money to be made, and control power to be gained. An irresistable heady opportunty to this gang of sea pirates currently loosed upon the world.
******
No ID, no problem
Published: January 28 2008 02:00 | Last updated: January 28 2008 02:00
In the two years since legislation for a UK national identity card scheme gained royal assent, the case against the multi-billion pound programme has become overwhelming. The government's arguments in favour have crumpled. Now, if leaked official documents are to be believed, its roll-out is to be delayed until 2012. Some investors, concerned that it is not worth the wait, are already walking away. Gordon Brown inherited this deeply flawed plan from his predecessor as prime minister. He should follow his instincts and abandon it altogether.
Not only would ID cards be an unwelcome infringement of personal freedom - they were scrapped in Britain after the second world war because people resented being asked to prove who they were - there is no evidence their introduction would deliver tangible benefits.
In the first place, I'm not opposed to nuclear power. There are problems with waste disposal, but those can be solved and there are other alternate sources of energy that can be developed if we have a Democratic Congress with enough votes to over ride. I was opposed to NAFTA as well as the so called ban on Assault Weopons. But when I look at Bill Clinton's overall legislative successes, I am well satisfied that overall, he represented my interests and those of the American People quite well. As far as Obama wanting to flood the market place with illegal workers, I'm at a disadvantage there: I haven't got the foggiest idea what you are talking about. In my judgment, we need workers in our fields, etc and it is not financially practical to deport or imprison 12 million people. As far as Hillary taking money from lobbyists from big Pharma, the Medical Associations, Insurance lobby, I am well aware of that. That's why I was an Edwards supporter. But I think Hillary is smart enough to take the money and still not give them a place at the table. She is smart enough to know that if she doesn't come through for the American people quickly, there won't be a second term. The same for Obama. Either of them will do a great job. Chew on that for awhile.
Hi ho goodfoe,
The nucleer industry is kinda hush hush excited about the answer to the waste disposal problem. We can dirty bomb anywhere we please, somewhat legally, if not justly, under the license to kill that is war.
*****
Our Gift to Iraq: Depleted Uranium
by AL Kennedy
Due to the dreadfully unpatriotic behavior of Robin Cook and the BBC, many of you are now experiencing what we might call worry.
You're mumbling anxious nonsense like, "Surely, it was obvious that Iraq's new democratically poisonous water supplies, freedom-loving house-to-house searches, its sexy, western-style press censorship and friendly, illegal interrogations might not entirely please Iraqis."
Why, I'll bet you're allowing phrases like "playing Russian roulette with other people's lives" and "blood-soaked, greedy, Westminster scum" to creep into otherwise respectable conversations. You may even worry that Tony Blair has misplaced his soul. But worries cause disease. So to keep us all happy and healthy, let's focus on the one real feelgood factor left in Iraq - depleted uranium.
Posted by cicero on February 1, 2008 at 01:45 AM
You are camping out here in a Democratic blog, trying to draw Democrats to the Nader camp. If you were successful, who would that help. It appears to me that it would help the Republican presidential candidate. That's the biggest reason I won't have anything to do with Nader. I don't believe he can be elected and I don't want to see a Republican president in office for another 4 years. Frankly, 4 more years of a Bush clone would finish destroying this country. Are you really sure you have thought your support of Nader all the way through to iT's logical conclusion?
Posted by cicero on February 1, 2008 at 02:29 AM
My o my! Getting irritated are we? One thing your whole premise does not account for is that Bill and Hillary are two different people. She is quite capable of making her own judgments and charting her own course of action. I'm not happy with any of the candidates proposals on health care. But what I try to remember is that this is: it is all campaign talk. Any president can have all the programs in the world, but the president proposes and the Congress disposes. There are enough good, sane Democrats in the Congress to help either Clinton or Obama find a good course that I am not worried about it. Many years ago I read a book entitled "The Orator is King" and Obama has the ability to inspire people. He reminds me of JFK in that regard. Maybe that's what we need, a new birth of belief in ourselves.
Posted by cicero on February 1, 2008 at 02:45 AM
Now that was a good, logical post. When I have time, I will go over to Nader's web site and look at his position on the issues. That does not mean that I am going to vote for him but I will check it out. I don't think I made my point clearly enough and since communication is the responsibility of the sender, I'll try again. Whether it is Clinton or Obama or Nader, they are not going to get their respective programs enacted w/o the agreement of Congress. I doubt if Nader, even if he were to be elected, would have much success with either a Republican or Democratic Congress.
Posted by Uncle*Fester on February 1, 2008 at 03:01 AM....Good evening Uncle Fester, haven't seen you for awhile. How's it going?
VI am true to my beliefs. If John McCain is the nominee
Posted by Toes on February 1, 2008 at 03:07 AM
Poor old John has his problems to over come. The base of the Republican Party is attacking him savagely, eating their own so to speak. Rush Limbrain is going nuts because McCain is in the lead.
Well Cicero, I have enjoyed chatting with you. I hope I didn't pull your chain too hard. I have to get up at 4am ct, so I think I'll try to get an hour or so's sleep. Have a nice evening all....manyanna.....
Posted by Uncle*Fester on February 1, 2008 at 03:32 AM......Is that the best you've got?...Your poor Republican candidates are not looking well. They all look like they need resuscitation!
The Republicans do have a poor field but the Democratic candidates are top tier.The country will be well served by the new Democratic president and greatly increased Democratic numbers in both the House and the Senate.
wow do the repelicans have a problem trying to beat either hillary or obama.
boy i bet fox news is really pissed they didn't get any of the democratic debates to broadcast....hannity was pretending to review it when it was over but he had no clue what went on....and their ratings are going down, down, down....one of the great things to come out of this election will be the denigration of fox....hahahaha
bush big nightmare continues for the iraqi people:
reuters
Twin bombings kill 64 in Baghdad
Two bombs explode in the Iraqi capital, Baghdad, killing at least 64 people in the deadliest violence for months.
Morning JohnBoy, gregg and dusty,
It's 18 here and I am freezing my ass off. We paved a little yesterday until it turned too cold.
JohnE,..it's about 31-32 here this morning. Old house was toooooo cold. Can't take the cold like I used to.......John Boy..........
some sort of ice storm on the way here today. need to run the pooch before we are slip sliding away trying to play stick.
Good Friday Morning, Dems! I'm running late, but just wanted to say what a great debate. I actually feel better about voting for Obama if he wins. However, I think Hillary clearly had the best, most comprehensive answers.
Storming brewing here this morning! 27 degrees with show/ice forecast and all of the area schools are closed.
Have a great day, all!
Good Morning Dems,
Mid 70's and sunny, here in Florida. I don't care how boring it was to the pundants. It was a pleasure seeing civility last night. Clearly Senators Clinton and Obama, understand that in the end we must be united. Let's follow that lead.
Meanwhile back at the ranch (I know it's a library, but it was built on a ranch, right?, I tell you they all have ranches).
Meanwhile back at the ranch, Mac & Flipper are arguing about who, wants to be pulling out, of what. Funny thing is, they're talking about Iraq, not "the rhythym method". What do Pubs call that? Oh yeah, "Earth Control".
I couldn't care if they want to argue about War, Sex, Religion, or the way Governor Ahnold, says, "Senator MeeCain".
Them Fighting!
Us Uniting!
It's a winning combination!
and that's the view from the cheap seats
Steve
I'm Voting for a Democrat in November!
Morning Dems,
I got a chuckle out of the Nader comments . Our CT. newspaper, which Mr. Nader is sure to read, had a wonderful cartoon this morning.
Shows Nader at a podium, speaking to Uncle Sam character in front of him, and he is saying "If they say "Don't run, they're really saying "Don't Speak"!
the next picture in the cartoon shows Uncle Sam leaving, saying "That's Even Better'!
My thoughts exactly. Just Don't talk, Ralph. You are a big enough ass as it is! Can you even imagine this idiot leading our country?
OH, and for those Repugs who like to post Anti Global Warming BS, I think you better start sending it instead, to your Next Repug Candidate, Mr. McCain! He admits there is a BIG problem and he will do something about it!!!
HaHa !
And of course, why didn't I realize that the reason McCain was offered early release as a Pow was because his father was high up in the chain of military command with the US. NOW I understand that if we ever catch Muhamajad of Iran's son as a POW, we shall definetly let him go because his father is so high up. duhhhhhhhhhhhhh...............
How come when I go to the top of the general Blog page, it says Thursday Jan 31st? Today is Friday Feb 1st. Is this an active board? If so, you're a day behind!
The 9/11 Commission has long been suspected of being a bipartisan whitewash of the Bush Administration failures in preventing 9/11 and its botched immediate follow-up after the event.
But, according to Think Progress, it turns out that Philip Zelikow, who was chosen to be the executive director of the 9/11 Commission, was actually one of the key people who set up the flawed national security apparatus under Condoleezza Rice, you know the one that blew off a CIA warning in the summer of 2001 of imminent Al-Qaeda hijackings in the U.S.
Do you get the picture? This was like Bush appointing himself to investigate the Katrina disaster and the Valerie Plame outing. In short, Zelikow -- as with Bush -- was in a position to monitor and mold information so as to save his own neck, along with the necks of Rice, Bush, and Dick Cheney.
According to ABC News, when "9/11 Commission co-chairs Tom Kean and Lee Hamilton hired former Condoleezza Rice aide Philip Zelikow to be executive director, Zelikow failed to tell them about his role helping Rice set up President George W. Bush's National Security Council in early 2001 -- and that he was 'instrumental' in demoting Richard Clarke, the one-time White House counterterrorism czar who was fixated on the threat from Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda."
A war without end or oversight
President Bush places himself above the law -- even ones he signed.
An honorable president would have the gumption to veto bills he found objectionable. But as Americans have learned by now, there is no room for honor in President Bush's Oval Office.
He prefers chicanery in the form of "signing statements."
Prior to delivering the State of the Union Address on Monday, Bush eviscerated four key provisions of the new defense bill by saying he will ignore parts of the law he doesn't like.
Bush finds objectionable provisions that:
n Forbid the United States from building a permanent military base in Iraq and controlling Iraq's oil reserves.
n Create a wartime commission to investigate waste, fraud and abuse by military contractors and finally hold them accountable.
n Offer protection for employees of government contractors who expose wrongdoing.
n Require intelligence officers within 45 days to either respond or state why they will not produce documents requested by the Armed Services committees of Congress.
The Bush administration repeatedly has denied concerns that it seeks to create a permanent base in Iraq. But this signing statement and the president's reluctance to bring before Congress a pact it is negotiating with Iraq regarding the presence of U.S. troops beyond 2008 indicate otherwise.
Bush must be stopped before he commits this country to obligations that endure long after he vacates Washington.
Congress must do what it can to hold Bush accountable. Virginia Sen. Jim Webb said he intends to move forward with the wartime commission that he sponsored. It is akin to one created by President Truman during World War II to bring oversight and accountability to eliminate waste, fraud and abuse.
"We don't quite know what the administration intends with this sort of language," Webb said Wednesday on the Senate floor. "But I want all my colleagues to be aware of it and to be aware that it potentially is an impingement on the rights of this legislative body -- in effect saying the president has the authority to ignore a law that is now passed, a law that he has now signed."
No American should be able to ignore the law without consequence. Not even a president.
it will be amusing to see how the Repugs try and turn this around so they can say it is all Bill Clinton's fault !!! HA ! Hopefully, those last 28% Americans who said they still approve of Bush, will take another look as they get their Pink Termination slip, Or are told no raise. Maybe, just maybe it will click that this country is in deep shit because of George Bush and the Republicans !
Payrolls Drop for 1st Time Since 2003
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Nervous employers cut 17,000 jobs in January -- the first such reduction in more than four years and a fresh trouble sign that the economy is in danger of stalling.
The Labor Department's report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate dipped slightly to 4.9 percent, from 5 percent, as the civilian labor force shrank slightly.
Job losses were widespread. Manufacturers, construction firms and a variety of professional and business services eliminated jobs in January -- reflecting the toll of the housing and credit debacles. The government cut jobs, too. All those cuts swamped job gains in education, health care, retailing and elsewhere.
Morning margot, from the East Coast, where we are in for ice storms today. I have Election training this morning because I am working on the polls on Tuesday, so I have to go out, no matter what the weather turns out to be!
Yup, the surge is definitely working. At least 64 dead in Baghdad market bombs
Pass on some of Clintons Great diplomacy to your friends and everywhere you blog, spread the word! Make sure you read these! There is a ton of info on this matter...google it.
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/clintons-kosovo-whopper/
http://www.fff.org/freedom/0101e.asp
Below they say NATO, but it was really the good ol' USA, with Clinton diplomacy leading the way!
http://www.iacenter.org/warcrime/8_health.htm
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