Good evening, energized Democrats, curious Indepdendents and disillusioned Republicans.

Republican front-runner John McCain took the day off on Saturday before claiming the endorsement of former President George H.W. Bush, the father of the current president, at an event in Houston on Monday.

McCain is beginning his nomination in the same way Bush Jr. conducted his whole presidency...taking a day off. He's practicing how he plans to continue with the third Bush term.

He's already in character for the role he hopes to play...Bush #3. Perhaps this adopted son will not disappoint 41 the way 43 did?

Suppose you live in Kansas, Minnesota, Washington, Idaho, Colorado, Iowa, South Carolina, Alabama, Maine, Illinois, Maryland, Washington DC, Virginia, Louisiana, Utah, Missouri, Georgia, Connecticut, Delaware, Nebraska, Alaska, North Dakota. You are a good Democrat, and you vote in your state's primary of caucas. You think you did the right thing, you took time out of your day, you brushed up on the issues, and you voted.
Now the Clinton camp says, if you live in one of those states, you really don't matter that much. You are somewhat "less" important than if you lived in NY, CA FL, or MI.
Wow. Luckily I live in Florida, so I guess I count. But according to the Clinton camp, all others....well not so much.

I just wanted to put out there how extremely unfair it would be if the DNC chooses to count Michigan and Florida delegates at this time. I chose not to vote in Michigan because my candidate was not on the ballot, because I knew it didn't count, and because the rumor was that the results were going to be used for campaign targeting of voters. If my vote counted, I most certainly would have shown up. I will be SOOO FURIOUS if Michigan and Florida reversal of delegates is what gets Clinton the nomination. fwiw

Why you should give the media the FINGER!

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=a_guide_to_media_manipulation_republican_style

Why you should give the Media the FINGER!

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=a_guide_to_media_manipulation_republican_style

Posted by KarenJF on February 16, 2008 at 07:07 PM

{{Karen}} I think a lot of Democrats feel like you do right now. I hope they come up with a fair solution, like caucuses.

It's good to see you :)

hmmm, I meant for FL and MI to be able to caucus.. not just caucuses in general.

I too will be furious with DNC if they allow FL & MI votes to count. Do the Clintons run the DNC? If so, what is the point of having a campaign? If the DNC will not make the candidates adhere to the rules that were originally set, how can we trust the DNC and maybe the DNC is not interested in whats best for the party.

Thanks, GiG! Good to see you, too. Time to lure the donkey in me back out. Hope you're well.

Yes, caucuses would be good, or a redo, or actually I'm ok with Michigan and Florida just not counting, at this point. It was a stupid thing for these states to do, and sometimes in life one has to live with consequences, even though I was opposed to the idea to begin with. Actually, the theory of shaking up the "right" of Iowa and NH to go first is ridiculous, but clearly there are better ways of making that statement.

Again, fwiw, imho Take care. Off to read "Little Women" to the offspring. bbl

And as always, my favorite editor from the AJC make a lot of sense...

VP Huckabee is a sincerely scary prospect

Mike Huckabee has his charms.

Though Arkansas reporters have been subjected to his mean streak, he can be as warm and folksy as a good country preacher (which he is). He can also be as slick and glib as a good televangelist (which he has been).

But don't let the packaging fool you. Huckabee's theocratic tendencies are dangerous, and he shouldn't be on any ticket, even as vice president.........

.......My favorite president ever, Josiah Bartlet of "West Wing," expressed his support for his well-qualified vice president — despite their rocky relationship — with the simple phrase: "Because I could die." Any presidential candidate ought to carefully consider that fundamental truth.

As for Huckabee, he'd make a fine addition to the roster of high-profile theocrats currently on the political scene — James Dobson, Gary Bauer and Pat Robertson, to name a few. At least Huckabee can play Lynyrd Skynyrd.

oops, what I meant was, the "right" of Iowa and NH going first is ridiculous, and shaking that up is a good idea, but .... distracted my little chirping birds - bbl

Time to lure the donkey in me back out.

Posted by KarenJF on February 16, 2008 at 07:23 PM

Yes, it most certainly is :)

Enjoy the evening with the little ones.

Posted by LaSt on February 16, 2008 at 06:04 PM

LaSt,

You have the right of it. Clinton's strategy ignores the need to reach out to everyone. It's about consolidating power within the same exclusive circles that have kept us from attaining a super majority in the past twenty years.

We need a fifty state strategy.

This primary election is not about who should occupy the White House. It's about winning back control of all of Washington and changing the way business is done there.

It's too late to talk about experience when the Centralist cartel hasn't accomplished a damned thing for the working poor or middle class since its inception. All they know how to do is win their own races.

Obama will have coat tails that will pull through a victory for a lot of Democratic candidates who will need just one last push in November. Clinton's negatives can only drag many of them down.

I came over to Obama's side late, but I'm now ready to fight for him.

He inspires and connects with people of all political persuasions who are longing for a new start for America. Only a leader with Obama's charisma can pull together a winning coalition and get things done when he attains power.

I want to work for a Democratic presidential candidate who can win the race in the home stretch. We've come too close too often. It's time to close the deal with Independents and Reagan Republicans. Yes, we can do it.

Barak Obama is a conciliator, a motivator, and a closer. I urge those in the remaning states to vote for him in their primaries or caucuses.

Posted by Indie on February 16, 2008 at 07:26 PM

Since you don't have a horse in this race, why don't you get back to stuffing envelopes for John McCain or are you taking the day off, too?

Posted by Indie on February 16, 2008 at 07:26 PM

Not at all. This is sticking by the rules that everybody agreed upon in 2006, and now, the DNC is even trying to reach out and give these states an option to caucus to make sure the people of MI and FL get their voices heard and from last I read (and I could be wrong), FL is refusing to even look at the option, even if it was funded by the DNC to make amends.

As for the superdelegates, I actually agree with that superdelegates should vote along the line of their constituents. Have you ever heard or said: Every vote counts and have you tried to get out the vote? If this primary season is decided by the superdelegates and not the popular vote, there is something seriously wrong with this party (and yes, I would support the nominee elected by the popular vote, no matter who turns out to be the nominee)

He inspires and connects with people of all political persuasions who are longing for a new start for America. Only a leader with Obama's charisma can pull together a winning coalition and get things done when he attains power.

Posted by SandyH on February 16, 2008 at 07:35 PM

Sandy, as always, well said.

I don't think you need to worry about the DNC backing down. I don't think MI or FL will count toward the nominee, but will probably end up being at the convention. I heard even Bill Nelson would be happy as long as they are there. Guess he is changing his tune a little.

DNC is refusing to back down on FL and MI delegates.

I think that a certain campaign is wrong to pressure for those delegates. I really do.

Posted by Indie on February 16, 2008 at 07:26 PM

I'm sorry but forgive if I'm mistaken in this but were the good people of MI told to vote uncommitted and that would be seen as a vote for Obama? What about Edwards he wasn't on the ballot at that time either I believe. Am I mistaken in this or what? Since when does one vote "uncommitted" to cast a vote for their candidate?

I know for sure if this election is handed to Obama, This is one Dem that will vote for the 1st time for a Rep canidate, and I'm speaking for alot of my friends and family here in PA. We haven't even had a vote here yet and there is already fighting about superdelagates, ans Fla & MI. This is the 2nd time in my life I'm going to see the Dems handed back to the GOP for 8 more years. wake-up people.

GiGi,

This country is feeling pretty bad about itself right now. We need a real change not a miracle.

The Lord helps those that help themselves. Many Americans are ready to fight for America again...not be diverted from what needs to be done.

I'm so glad McCain is the alternative. It paints a difinitive picture of what the Republicans want to continue.

It's not appealing or inspiring. Just more war and jobs lost to other nations who got a big, unfair jump on us because of those inside our own country to gave it to them with globalization policies.

Americans are ready to fight back and reclaim our place in the world.

In Michigan, an uncommitted vote is just that. The delegates awarded for the uncommitted votes would have the right to vote for whomever they feel necessary at the convention.

The reason that Michigan and Florida are turning down the idea of caucuses is because it would be way to confusing to figure out. Look at the amount of people who voted in the primary.

Hopefully this gets worked out because if not, it just might be a hard fight for the democrat candidate come November. Both Florida and Michigan are important states for the Democrats. I was upset at the DNC shortly after our primary in Michigan because I got a call to donate money. Yeah right. It is not the peoples fault the date got moved up. The votes should count....the GOP doesn't have this problem! It has already been fixed!!

If you want 4 or 8 more years of this national nightmare then you go ahead and give that vote to the republicans now. No one needs a fair weather fan. You fight for your candidate and then whether or not your candidate is picked you fight for your party because having these bastards in office has done nothing but weaken this country. But you go ahead and vote for the other side, just don't come back here and complain how bad this country is after you've voted for those corrupt zealots.

I understand the way that you are feeling. Sometimes things just don't seem fair. If things don't work how you think it should, take a breath, relax and then rethink what the best options are for you. I really don't see myself voting for McCain in November, but it just will depend on what happens in the coming months. I will need to know more about the candidates difference and then I will be able to make a decision. Independent voters are different that way. I usually vote for the democratic candidate nationally, but locally hardly ever. I just wanted to let you know that you are not the only one feeling that way!

i haven't been posting much here lately. i kept posting even though the troll situation was hard to take and really idiotic but now this hillary vs. obama bullshit has really gotten tedious and disturbing.

one thing though, i am beginning to think what i had hoped was going to be a cake walk in terms of beating the repelicans in 11/08 is now no looking more and more like a good chance that mccain will win.

and boy will that ever be a major f_ _ _ up!

must edit...should read "...is now looking..."

you cannot allow the fl and mi delegations a vote at the convention. the rules were set, to let these delegates determine your choice as your presidential canidate is against all principles of fairplay in any contest. if these delegates are allowed to vote your party has lost all credibility to itself and the american people.i am a independent who leans to the democrats who i see as the last hope for our country. we cannot stand another 4 years of republican white house.

I hear ya gregg...this party has a great track record of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (mcgovern, kerry, gore to name a few) and here we are with two outstanding people running, and the bitter attacks between the two camps is hard to take. It is so frustrating to see the mentality on here that if so and so doesn't get the nod that they will go vote for the pelicans instead. It's getting depressing as all get out.

Americans are ready to fight back and reclaim our place in the world.

Posted by SandyH on February 16, 2008 at 08:19 PM

Yes, I agree.

And for those dissing hope and optimism, hope has been around for a long time and hope, dreams and vision are what has made this country great.

G'nite folks, enjoy the weekend.

What a Wonderful World

I see trees of green, red roses too
I see them bloom for me and you
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

I see skies of blue and clouds of white
The bright blessed day, the dark sacred night
And I think to myself what a wonderful world.

The colors of the rainbow so pretty in the sky
Are also on the faces of people going by
I see friends shaking hands saying how do you do
They're really saying I love you.

I hear babies crying, I watch them grow
They'll learn much more than I'll never know
And I think to myself what a wonderful world
Yes I think to myself what a wonderful world.

good evening Dems
As you all already know by now, I am working to elect Obama after losing my candidate.
but I need some help from another Obama supporter. I am trying to find out why he voted the way he did on this bill
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00232

Does anyone in Dem land have this informatio?

thanks

Harold Ickes speaking about the superdelegates: "They are closely in touch with the issues and ideas of the jurisdiction they represent and they are as much or more in touch than delegates won or recruited by presidential campaigns" Where does this guy get off saying this. It just advances the notion that we the voter does not know what is best and that we are in someway inferior. We the voters makeup the party, it is not just a handful of persons in high places. If this is what the party has become and the DNC has allowed this to happen we are no longer a party of the people. I have been a Democrat all my life and I don’t always agree with every plank in the platform, but it is time the old guard of the party wake up and listen to the people. This time it is more than an election it is a movement and the leadership of the party needs to wake up. The people will not stand for a tainted candidate. This must be all above the table or the party will fracture and then there is no hope of winning the Presidency.

Harold Ickes speaking about the superdelegates: "They are closely in touch with the issues and ideas of the jurisdiction they represent and they are as much or more in touch than delegates won or recruited by presidential campaigns" Where does this guy get off saying this. It just advances the notion that we the voter does not know what is best and that we are in someway inferior. We the voters makeup the party, it is not just a handful of persons in high places. If this is what the party has become and the DNC has allowed this to happen we are no longer a party of the people. I have been a Democrat all my life and I don’t always agree with every plank in the platform, but it is time the old guard of the party wake up and listen to the people. This time it is more than an election it is a movement and the leadership of the party needs to wake up. The people will not stand for a tainted candidate. This must be all above the table or the party will fracture and then there is no hope of winning the Presidency.

It's been a long, long time since I have posted, but I am really concerned about where this great party is headed.

We had the best slate of candidates I've seen in a long time. But where are we headed?

I don't live in Fl or Mi, but I knew there delgates would not count and why?

Why did the state party in both of these states ignore national party decision?

Why did Clinton leave her name on the ballot in Michigan when other candidates did not?

I for one am tired of one state deciding who is the leader of this country.

I can see now how desparately she wants the power of the presidency.

I feel she will be the nominee, because of inside deals, be it super delegates or Fl or Mi. As for me a former buckeye, the state of Ohio should have no more say than any other state, they let us down big time in 2004 and Fl in 2000.

Could I support her, I don't know. And her supporters on this blog are giving me very little reason to do so.

lol...bigdaddy...you should see what ickes was saying today...it appears that none of us need to cast any future ballots as he assured reporters today that Clinton would have to nomination wrapped up with all the delegates and super delegates she has, especially when they seat FLA and MI...it's as good as over...

Clinton adviser: The race will be over in June

“At or about, certainly shortly after, the seventh of June, Hillary’s going to nail down this nomination. She’s going to have a majority of the delegates,” Harold Ickes said, thanks to a combination of pledged delegates awarded through primary and caucus votes, and superdelegates – Democratic elected officials and party leaders who are free to choose any candidate they wish. Ickes is himself a superdelegate

Politics as usual...eh..that kind of arrogance turns people off and makes them suspicious...

I am a registered Democrat from Florida and fighting to survive in a strong republican area. I am mad and will make this promise... If my vote is not counted and the Democratic Convention turns its back on me I will change to an independant and vote for McCain. A repulican Governor and congress made these changes and I shouldnt be punished. Are you out your mind!

so...as a dem struggling to survive in a land full of fools, you would vote for the fools? again this makes no sense. I can understand the frustration especially coming from FLA. your votes didn't really count in '00 and ours here we in ohio we aren't so sure counted '04 but man..to throw your vote to a party that stands for corruption, unilateral war, a destroyed economy, graft, the trampling of civil liberties so on and so forth...well..it's your vote david, but don't come back on here complaining about the state of affairs in a few months if mclame is elected and you helped that happen...

Through lots of brainwashing, we the people have a tendency to for get that WE THE PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER If any of you feel that there are going to be back yard deals to elect within the DNC to elect a candidate for the President of the United States, this goes against everything WE THE PEOPLE OF THIS PARTY believe and fight against every single day. Organize, join together, both Hillary and Obama supporters and go after the DNC en mass.
If you, all of you, don’t want any back room deals, and for the to me NO TAINT OF IMPROPIETY on our candidate., USE YOUR POWER.

THIS IS ONE ISSUE that I believe all of us agree on, no matter who we support within the party. UNITE

I BELIEVE THAT IF THE INDEPENDENTS AND YES, EVEN REPUBS SEE THIS HAPPEN OUR CANDIDATE CAN’T LOOSE.

EVERYONE, even the repubs, IS HUNGRY FOR A PARTY THAT IS COMPLETELY TRANSPARENT-----NO MATTER WHAT THEY TELL YOU IN PUBLIC.

amen to that serenity

OOOOO so sorry for the sloppy post
i get in a hurry when i get stirred up (fired up) LOL

I would, I like McCain he is as close to a Democrat as we are going to get from a republican and I'm sure our Democratic congress can keep him in check. The DNC is making the biggest mistake of the century. We have the momentum (supplied by Bush)on our side and we are shooting ourselves in the foot. If we are that stupid we deserve to lose.

Faux Dems: DO NOT TELL ME THAT IF YOUR CANDIDATE DOESN’T WIN THE PRIMARIES THAT YOU ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR A BRAINWASHED MILITARY MAN

If you have bothered to really look into McCains History you would know that he does exactly what he is told.

If you don't want to bother, before you vote for him, look at his campaign

Total proof of his history of being a good little soldier and doing what he is told.

His history, if you really look into it shows that this "freethinking" thing is media spin and a few votes that "appear" like he went against his bosses.

If you really want more proof of this, and can't do your own research,
just say so
and I will make the effort

McCain is as close to a Democrat as Bush is as close to a Rhodes scholar. If you want to vote for a "100 year occupation" (not a dem principle), please do so, as it is your right, but I think you are on the wrong board for that. You might want to try www.mclame.org

and NO we don't desearve to loose under any circumstances after what we the people have been through and what your children are destined to go through

Both my wife and I are delegates to our Legislative District Caucus in Washington State for Obama. I have emailed Howard Dean and Tom McMahan numerous times about the Florida and Michigan delegates. They are both choosing to ignore my emails, although they have no problem emailing my wife and I to beg for money and tell us to be loyal.

The number one tenant of the Democratic Party is honest and open leadership. The DNC is not practicing either one of those concepts. Clearly a statement needs to be made publicly about what the Party Hacks plan to do with the situation. If they publicly tell both Florida and Michigan now to hold open and fair elections for delegates at caucuses, then those states would have time prior to the June 10 deadline to notify the candidates and the voters in their states. The process could be done properly, and then those state's voters wouldn't be disenfranchised.

If the election is stolen by the Clinton's through any process other than an open and fair process, we will lose all of the new energy and momentum this race has brought to the Democratic Party.

you know I've noticed the same thing anderson...I can't get a response either though they have no problem asking for more cash..

high, you are missing the point. If my vote, in Florida, is not counted at the convention. I will vote for McCain. I have never voted for a republican in my Life (back to Carter) but if the DNC is that ignorant of how stupid this infighting is affecting us in Florida then maybe we need to lose this election so we can get the DNC back into reality and quit this "the party comes first" instead of the country comes first.

david then go after the DNC
Did loosing 2000 and 2004 TEACH THE DNC? and bring them into reality?

NO OR WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION

DAVID go after your reps in Florida that allowed this mess to be created and were so incompetent in how they stood up for you, the voter they were hired to represent.
AND REPLACE THEM

davidpga, I don't blame you for being upset and I am not a fan of the DNC or its original decision, but your state party leaders new the rules and chose to ignore them. As a teacher, if a student doesn't follow the accepted format for a paper, or doesn't meet the deadlines, they lose points or suffer whatever consequences are determined to be fair to those students that follow the format and turn work in on time. In sports, rules violations carry consequences.

The real culprits in this situation are the party leaders in Florida and Michigan. They have a potential solution. The DNC should not change the rules after the fact. Your anger is misplaced. It should be directed toward your state's party leaders that chose to disenfranchise you. Party politics in Florida hasn't changed much in eight years.

High, You are right on. The DNC needs to get their heads out their A== and lets win this election.

I am not missing the point

Your anger is misplaced and because you are striking out at the most obvious

you are willing to condemn your grandchildren for life

thank you andersonislanderfor obama

you beat me to it :-)

boy, am I fired up tonight

NO MORE, STAMPING OF THE FEET AND "I AM GOING TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN" because my party is messed up or because the candidate that I like doesn't win.

We MUST elect democrats, and if they don't represent us, then we must be willing to REPLACE THEM with other DEMS

O.K.
It’s a plan
Everyone email all your contacts to let the DNC we will accept nothing less than quick and totally transparent decisions, with a LOT of educating the public on how and why that decision was reached---

totally demonstrating that there will not be a taint of impropriety on ANY candidate that we are presenting to the public for this HIGH OFFICE (or actually, I guess, any office).

If they don’t uphold our highest of standards, they will be replaced. NOT promoted, or transferred, REPLACED and they can go work for the repubs that are obviously filling their bank accounts or promising a sweet deal somewhere down the line.

Well, it’s a start

I stand behind my state. If other states can have their elections early than we can have ours when we want to. What difference does it make. Is there some kind of mystic reason that we cannot have our election when we want to? Again, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE, WHY IS THIS SUCH A BIG DEAL. I am a small business owner (20 employees) 1.2 million in revenue. Nobody tells me how to run my company and no one tells me when I can elect my representative. AGAIN, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL. WHY WHY WHY!!!!!!

High, give me one good reason (and dont use "because its DNC rules) why Florida cannot hold their elections when they want to?

WARNING...WARNING...WARNING....THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE PRIMARIES....

from Newsweek:
Running Dry
Climate research says Lake Mead, in the Southwest, could be gone by 2021. How millions in southern California and neighboring states would be affected.

You need not go to the Middle East, North Africa or Southeast Asia, where there are already reported water shortages, to understand the value and scarcity of the life-giving liquid. Just look in America's own back yard. The American Southwest has been in a protracted drought for nearly a decade, with sinking water levels in lakes and rivers and decreasing snowpack in the mountains. And now a prominent scientist from the Scripps Institution of Oceanography at the University of California, San Diego, says that Lake Mead, which supplies water to 22 million people throughout the region, could be bone dry in just 13 years.

It may sound like the plot of an apocalyptic sci-fi flick, but Tim Barnett, a research marine geophysicist and climate expert at Scripps, says there's a 50 percent chance that the manmade lake, a reservoir created by Hoover Dam located on the Colorado River 30 miles southeast of Las Vegas, will be dry by 2021, or even sooner if climate changes continue as expected and water use is not curtailed.

Barnett, lead author of a paper titled "When Will Lake Mead Go Dry"which will appear in the peer-reviewed journal Water Resources Research, published by the American Geophysical Union, says human demand and human-induced climate change are creating a net deficit of nearly 1 million acre-feet of water per year from the Colorado River system, which includes Lake Mead and Lake Powell. Barnett talked to NEWSWEEK's Jamie Reno about the Lake Mead study, what it means for the Southwest, and what—if anything—can be done to save the lake...

here comes the blind commisioner, they've got him in a trance. one hand is tied to the tight rope walker, the other is in his pants...

highserenity, I used to be a Democratic Precinct Officer until Bill Clinton was crammed down our throats by the Party Establishment. I attended all of our local county party meetings, door-belled a few hundred houses prior to every election to get out the vote, supported candidates and issues with my time and money. Then we got dictated to by the party hacks. It has been sixteen years since I even attended a caucus in Washington State because of the Clintons.

If the Democratic Party Super-delegates overturn the will of the people or if rules violators from Michigan or Florida are seated and decide the outcome of this very important election, it will be more than sixteen years until my next Democratic Caucus. I am so pleased to have a candidate that has a chance that actually gets it. Because he understands how the game is played, he has been able to play by their rules. The problem with the Clintons is that they want to keep changing the rules.

I am not the kid that just wants to take his ball and go home if he doesn't get his way. I am the old guy that wants to see honest-open-government (a novel idea in today's administration) and I will vote with my feet. I have had to go with third party candidates the past sixteen years for national elections. I would love to reunite with the Democratic Party for longer than one primary season, but that is up to them. If real democrats take control of the democratic party the nation will win. We can change things peacefully as long as the establishment doesn't keep moving the line or changing the rules. They are power hungry to the detriment of the country.

I might just join davidpga and support any viable opponent of Hillary if she becomes the faux nominee. McCain could beat her, and I it wouldn't be much different for the country. She supported the war, supports Bush on Iran, and she doesn't have the integrity or character to lead the free world. She wants to mandate to the American people like some kind of dictator.

david, that is why you are a Dem.
you value your freedom

I do not know why the DNC has made this rule. If I were you (and now, since I know it may affect me) I would find out. There may or may not be a reason that isn't obvious that is in our best interest.

then again, all the DEMS agreed to the rule (YOU DID) OR IT WOULDN'T BE THERE

If you break the rules that you signed up for, I don't believe you can whine when it doesn't work out. You installed your reps.

As a successful business owner, you know if you don't take responsibility for your part in a situation and focus your solutions (anger) on those that you elected, and you trusted to protect you, and they betrayed you-----
AND IN THIS CASE ALL OF US

I did not hire your reps-----------
and yet the whole party all across the country is suffering for this

Our candidates have a cloud on them

We are the ones who had no control over what happened, except in the main DNC office--

and we all need to act on THAT.

MOST of us have not even really understood who did what and why and we are just venting.

anderson
I also am a new implant
that is why I don't know the rules and who did what.

I have been a political activist and independent for 35+ years.

Very few of the candidates I have supported have been elected :-(

Getting them to even be allowed to debate in front of the public, was one of my goals, and I failed. but we go on

I decided to give the Dem party my energy in 2000, but did not actually join the party until about 2 months ago.

GEORGE BUSH SCARED THE HELL OUT OF ME IN 2000 and was willing to do ANYTHING

NEWSBREAK....THE ELECTIONS FOR PRESIDENT ARE BEING OUTSOURCED TO LATVIA ( one of the few countries that adored bush...'cept for that grenade someone tossed at him... ). THE LATS ARE HOLDING A NATIONAL TEACH IN TO COLLECTIVELY GROK OUR CONSTITUTION TOWARD FORMULATING A GAME PLAN...said Laima and Lauma spokesfolk for the Saeima

meanwhile back at the day to day, where the rubber meets the road, down at the nitty gritty stand...

EPA threatened states wanting tougher mercury limits

WASHINGTON (AP) — While arguing in court that states are free to enact tougher mercury controls from power plants, the Bush administration pressured dozens of states to accept a scheme that would let some plants evade cleaning up their pollution, government documents show.

A week ago, a federal appeals court struck down that industry-friendly approach for mercury reduction. It allowed plants with excessive smokestack emissions to buy pollution rights from other plants that foul the air less.

Internal Environmental Protection Agency documents and e-mails, obtained by the advocacy group Environmental Defense, show attempts over the past two years to blunt state efforts to make their plants drastically reduce mercury pollution instead of trading for credits that would let them continue it.

An EPA official said the agency's job "is not to pressure states."

The federal plan capped overall mercury releases from power plants nationwide. But it allowed plants to avoid reductions by purchasing emission credits. Critics have said that creates "hot spots" of mercury releases harmful to communities.

Many states did not want their power plants to be able to buy their way out of having to reduce mercury pollution.

A neurotoxin linked to learning disabilities, mercury is most dangerous to fetuses, infants and small children, usually when pregnant women or children eat mercury contaminated fish. The National Academy of Sciences estimates that 60,000 newborns a year could be at risk of learning disabilities because of mercury their mothers absorbed during pregnancy.

"There was an extraordinary degree of aggressiveness by EPA in pressing states to abandon a more protective mercury program. EPA devoted enormous effort to preventing states from doing more," said Vickie Patton, a lawyer for Environmental Defense. The group obtained the documents through a Freedom of Information Act filing...

the riot squad is restless, they need somewhere to go...

thanks gregg for info

I will check it out but do you have any

SOLUTION oriented information?

i was refering to Lake Mead

I believe the rules must be fair to everyone not just one sided. Don't bash the Clinton's with your misplaced anger they didn't set the rules it was the DNC hierarchy so go after them. Any one with half a brain would have known never to dismiss Florida after the fiasco in 2000.

1.5m people (yeas real good democrats)voted in Florida and Michigan those of you who believe in giving a voice to everyone...shouldn't these voters be heard.

Obama and Edwards wanted their voters to vote for uncommitted but Hillary won that is a fact. You can give the uncommitted votes to Obama that way he gets a bonus of Edwards votes who would have scored more in Michigan.

Yes all states count, but if you are not going to win those states in the general elections then the win is less of an ammunition compared to the big cities. Remember this is a democracy so majority (big states) rules

We won't be having this conversation if Obama was leading with the superdelegates count...would we?

so this who argument has nothing to do with fair and just process

A vote for McCain is a vote for Bush. If you squint, and listen real close, you would think that it's "W" all over again. Same stand on the war, the same stand on the envoirment, same stand on the Bush tax cuts and now even the same stand on torture.
McCain is yesterday. So yes, if you are happy with the way things are right now, you go ahead and you vote for McCain. Just don't complain about the way things are.

Their would be no suffering if the DNC didnt make it such a big deal. I dont care who the winner is I dont have a Hillary or Obama agenda. I have a MY VOTE COUNTS AGENDA. I didnt approve or make the rules but I am sure suffering from them. If I have an unprofitable situation at work I change direction. If my political party turns it back on me then maybe its time for a change. What our party needs to be focusing is the past. At last count we have the recessions at Carter 0, Regan 2, Bush Sr 1, Clinton 0, and with the current recession Bush jr 2. Thats makes the GOP 5 and 0. We need to concentrate on that, not when Florida has its election.

highserenity, The Democratic Party used to be just as undemocratic as the Republicans. They had winner-take-all primaries until Jesse Jackson brought some delegates to the National Convention and negotiated proportional allocation.

The super-delegates exist because they didn't want to look like they were controlling the delegate selection process in every local area, so they can graciously stand back and let "real citizens" get elected as delegates at their precinct caucuses. They maintain the power without looking power hungry to their electorate.

The system of super-delegates seems to have grown and presently could represent about 40% of necessary delegates to elect the eventual nominee (assuming they voted as a block, which isn't likely).

No system is perfect, because people aren't perfect, but an open and honest system would at least be navigable to any interested individuals. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

I think that if any of us believe that the general election is going to be run fairly-----
You are actually insane

If you are not already KNOWING that we are playing against a loaded deck,
Your head has truly been in your ass for a loooooong time.

I don’t believe at this point that much can be done about it.
Your reps should have been doing it the last 7 years. And I think it is tooooo late

So that is one reason that I support Obama. It is a movement that can’t be ignored.

If it continues, and he has landslide votes, no one will be able to STUFF THE BALLOT BOX

and once the dems are in full control----get rid of the dirty apples that have failed you the last 10+ years

one thing though, i am beginning to think what i had hoped was going to be a cake walk in terms of beating the repelicans in 11/08 is now no looking more and more like a good chance that mccain will win.

and boy will that ever be a major f_ _ _ up!

Posted by gregg on February 16, 2008 at 08:43 PM

gregg,

If you are still around...I felt the same way until I realized that I was being silenced by those who were manipulating the forum.

I don't care any longer about being fair to all sides. I am going to say whatever I want whenever I want to say it. And I'm not going to address those who want to pick apart everything I say.

I chose a candidate and I'm proud of him.

This thing will eventually play out as it may. We who have gotten out and worked for the party to get candidates elected will still be there in the end. I'll support whoever gets the nomination, but in the meantime I'm excited about Obama and I don't care what others here think about it.

I'm looking forward to meeting a lot of new people this time around out in the field...a lot younger and spirtited ones than in the past two elections. We need new blood and yes we can win this thing.

Wash your mouth out with soap for saying that McCain could possibly win this thing. He's all wrong for America. If you keep that in mind, as even the most conservative of hate radio personalities have. When you do that it becomes clear why McCain will fail in November.

The purpose of the trolls on this blog is to demoralize the opposition. Don't let them do it.

Where is you sense of humor? Look at what the Republicans have ended up with...a sickly old man with an even sicker platform. Talk about demoralizing. McCain wants a Hundred Years War and unemployment lines as far as the eye can see.

It's like Obama said today...he's a hope-monger. He's been accused of peddaling false hopes...just like FDR did.

Snap out of it, gregg. We can do this...just like the Greatest Generation did. We can do this. McCain is Hoover.

SS16 that is a ridiculous argument and I am not going to take the time to point out to all watching why, since we have already gone over this ad nauseum Please go back to the days of old posts debating this issue.

Your position has already been debated

and accusing the Obama supporters of being hipocritical doens't wash is not good for the party.

BOY THIS I AGREE TOTALLY WITH THANKS

A vote for McCain is a vote for Bush. If you squint, and listen real close, you would think that it's "W" all over again. Same stand on the war, the same stand on the envoirment, same stand on the Bush tax cuts and now even the same stand on torture.
McCain is yesterday. So yes, if you are happy with the way things are right now, you go ahead and you vote for McCain. Just don't complain about the way things are.

Posted by LaSt on February 16, 2008 at 10:35 PM

It doesn't not suprise me that the Clinton camp has already written off hundreds of thousands of Americans simply because they don't live in the "right" state. That is the old school of politics and they play it very well. Their belief is that you only focus only on the people you think that will help you. Don't go after Indpendents, don't go after the moderate Republicans and try, try to eek out a win with 49.9 percent to 49.8 percent. majority. Whew!!! No wonder this country is so divided if no effort is made to unite it. I think Gov. Dean showed how flawed that old school belief was when he started the 50 state effort. Oh yeah right, the Clinton camp didn't support that either. Well at least they are consistent in their lack of belief in the American people.
And is this who Senator Edwards is considering endorsing? I thought he was the champion of the common man. Not the champion of the common man from only the"big" states.

sandy, i appreciate your concern and will start eating more fruits and vegetables to build up my stamina for the madness that lies ahead...if mccain is hoover we are really in deep shit cause i doubt that anyone on the blog lived thru the depression...i'm just afraid that obama and hillary may turn out to be laurel and hardy...

solution to lake mead disappearing?

start thinking about the northwest or northeast for a homestead as it will get more and more difficult to grow spaghetti and meatball trees in the southwest.

LaSt
I am a huge Edwards fan---I supported him before he dropped out felt he was really never heard by the people because of the media anyway oh well

I am interested

where did you hear he was endorsing Hillary?
thanks

I was surprised to see McCain flip flop on torture. He seems to be trying to accommodate the President as much as the Democratic Congress has been lately. With Bush's approval rating in the basement it should be a cakewalk to the Whitehouse for the Democratic Nominee (even if it had been Biden, or Dodd, or Gravel, or Kucinich, or Edwards, or even Clinton). The problem is, the Democratic House and Senate even have a lower approval rating. They seem to be trying hard to make excuses for not getting anything done. They cower at the thought of a presidential veto so much that they don't send anything to him that he might not like. They dismiss the thought of prosecuting criminals in the administration without batting an eye.

McCain could easily win this thing if the Democratic Party doesn't get out of its own way.

solution to lake mead disappearing?

start thinking about the northwest or northeast for a homestead as it will get more and more difficult to grow spaghetti and meatball trees in the southwest.

Posted by gregg on February 16, 2008 at 10:55 PM

---------------------------------------------

LOL yea I live in No. California

Guess I don't have to think about solutions since I am not going to suffer. (sarcastic)

highserenity may be you need to chill and check your facts. I don't think changing the goal post in the midst of a contest is fair.

You may have discussed this ad nauseum but that doesn't mean it is right.

I don't give into bullies easily.

I am tired of so called Obama supporters blaming the Clinton's for everything. Grow and up deal with life

We still don't know who is going to win? who ever it is has to win on a fair and equitable basis.

good night. will check back in the morning.

Please wake up from the Obama Dream and smell the coffee.

It's been clear from the beginning the Republican party prefers running against Barack Obama in the 2008 Presidential Election.

Why? Because Obama's ultra-liberal voting record is ripe for swiftboat attacks. This makes Obama much easier for McCain to beat.

Even worse, swiftboat attacks against Obama will succeed because the public knows very little about his voting record.

Check Obama's history in the Illinois State Legislature. Obama's past votes on gun control, abortion and the death penalty will give the Republicans the "raw meat" they can toss to right-wing extremists to get them to vote for McCain in November 2008.

Here are just a few of Obama's votes that Republicans can attack in the general election:

- Voted against allowing licensed gun owners in Illinois to carry their legal weapons outside their homes. Obama wanted to keep legally-registered weapons off the street.

- Voted against allowing doctors to treat fetuses who survive abortion.

- Voted to stop death sentences for gang members who commit murder as part of their initiation into a gang.

It's easy to imagine the anti-Obama TV commercials the Republicans will run when Obama wins the Democratic Primary.

Since the primary has narrowed front runners to Obama verses Clinton, the Republican party has been manipulating the press and the public.

At first, their tactics were subtle. They merely suggested Obama "might" be harder to beat than Hillary Clinton. When it was clear that Democratic voters fell for it, the Republicans became more obvious with their manipulation of both Democrat and Independent voters.

Tune Into Fox News For Clue Number 1: Talking Head Conservatives Announce They Prefer Hillary Over McCain.

The fact that the likes of Anne Coulter and Rush Limbaugh claim they would support Hillary Clinton against McCain was the most obvious tactic. The Democrats' hatred of Coulter and Limbaugh was sure to push more Democrat and Independent primary voters to choose Obama.

Without a doubt, the Republican brain trust dictates what these conservative talking heads preach over the airways. To think otherwise is naive. The GOP has successfully manipulated the press in the past and they are doing it right now.

Clue Number 2: Conservative Polls Put Obama Ahead Of McCain In General Election.

Remember the old saying: "Consider the source." If you study the polls carefully, those conducted by conservative groups show Obama beating McCain in the general election.

However, if you read the fine print on these polls you'll see a 5% to 7% margin of error. This is a large percentage difference which can easily hide the fact that a race between Obama and McCain will be a race Obama will lose.

Now, look at the independent polls that show Clinton beating McCain in a general election. The margin of error shrinks to only 3%. This is a more accurate snapshot of the November election results.

Clue Number 3: Current Polls Showing Obama Beating McCain In A General Election Do Not Factor In The Upcoming Swiftboat Attacks On Obama.

As said above, it's easy to imagine how Republicans will exploit Obama's extremely liberal voting record once he becomes the Democratic nominee for president. The polls offered now are useless indicators of how voters will feel about Obama once the Republican attacks against him begin.

Clue Number 4: The Republican PR-Machine Destroyed Mitt Romney In Their Own Primary.

Republicans knew that Mitt Romney would make it too easy for Democrats to win the general election. In many ways, Romney's flip-flopping and his own record on the issues would make it easier for any Democratic candidate to win in the general election. They had to eliminate Romney first then push McCain to the forefront. And they did this by keeping Huckabee in the race to manipulate the religious right and spread votes over three candidates.

Will The Democrat Primary Voters In Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania See Through The Republican Smokescreen?

Hopefully, they will look closely at the facts about Obama's weaknesses as a candidate when pitted against the Republican election machine.

Hopefully, they will see Hillary Clinton is the stronger candidate to run against McCain. The Republicans have no new attacks to use against Hillary Clinton. All of their best tricks against her have already been used.

And Hillary is enough of a centrist to attract many Republican voters in a general election, especially Republican women.

Otherwise, when the swift-boating of Obama begins we will see the polls shift to favoring McCain for President.

And, once again, Democrats will lose the White House to a man who wants to keep troops in Iraq for the next 100 years.

Democrats - wake up from the Obama Dream and smell the coffee.

Posted by SS16 on February 16, 2008 at 10:58 PM"so called Obasma supporters blaming the Clinton's for everything."

-------------------------------------
SS16
says s/he who attacked the Obama supporters::

NOW states as innuendo that I attacked Clinton

I DID NOT ATTACK YOUR CANDIDATE OR ANYONE ELSES

I said your position had been debated ad nauseum

What I did not point out is that it has been fully debunked and you are targeting the wrong people. I wanted you to read it for yourself-
If you want to know both sides of the debate, read previous posts.

If you payed attention and didn't just hit once in awhile on a site to stir _____ you would know that I have been a huge Hillary supporter and

I didn't have to attack Obama supporters to do it

The bully statement and the "grow up and deal with life" personal attack finally allowed me to identify you

MarySnow posts:

And Hillary is enough of a centrist to attract many Republican voters in a general election, especially Republican women.

Otherwise, when the swift-boating of Obama begins we will see the polls shift to favoring McCain for President.

And, once again, Democrats will lose the White House to a man who wants to keep troops in Iraq for the next 100 years.

Democrats - wake up from the Obama Dream and smell the coffee.

Well, Mary, I like to dream. I don't care for coffee. If you agree with that argument of Hillary being tested so much that nothing will stick, good luck.

You also left out some of the "swift-boat" attacks Obama will have to face. Like when the Clintons tried to marginalize him as "the black candidate" or twist his words about Ronald Reagan.

I am hopeful that this nation will come of age and offer a real leader as the spokesperson for the free world.

An Obama dream is much better than a Clinton nightmare. The Clintons have shown the true content of their character by using race to campaign against Barack Obama. It is time for real change. Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh got it right; Hillary would be the very best uniter of the Republican Party. She could bring many factions together that aren't presently even wanting to speak with each other.

People aren't voting for policy this time. We are voting for character because it does count.

Mary, right now we are getting a false reading from the Democratic party. 80% of blacks are voting for Obama. I really doubt they are voting for him for his views but for his color. I like Obama he has some good qualities, but he is too inexperienced to be our president. I believe this country needs universal health care desperately and he does not. My companies health care costs went up 28% this year and we had to reduce coverage in order to afford it. I had to lay off three employees friday and may have to layoff more next week. We need someone in office with the experience and expertise to accomplish the needed adjustments to rally our economy. I dont think Obama can. Thats why I get so mad that the DNC is angering two states that they will desperately need in order to win the election. Otherwise all is lost and we are in for 4 more years of the same old crap.

Posted by MarySnow on February 16, 2008 at 11:06 PM

--------------------------

I agree with most of what you were saying until I realized the uncontrollable movement.

I believe the only way the voters will be counted fairly is if there is a landslide.

Obamas supporters are so fervent and passionate and young and energetic and that I don't believe they will be able to get away with any swiftboating of Obama

I think if they could even find some terrible secret he has, his supporters would love him more for his flaws.

anyway---that is why I changed my mind

the DEMS have to win the presidency in 'O8 and I believe the fix went in for '08 as well as '04 while we were being distracted with the war.

This includes some in the Dem congress

Check out the actions of the Attorney General and why the replacements he illegally replaced for political (election) clout have not been re-instated and his shills fired!!!!!

Gonzales left in shame (ya ya) and we have forgotten what he did to rig future elections

Mary
geez where have you been?

the repub women, and you should know, hate Hillary.

All the exit polls have shown that repub women that voted Dem ,, voted for Obama

What do you want to accomplish 11/4/08? A democrat, any democrat in the white house or the best possible democrat in the white house?

I personally feel some of the best are already out of the race, but that said, I do not want 4-8 more years of Clinton bashing, whitewater, lost records, found in the attic of the white house. Hey I stood by the party through all this. But I'm ready for a change.

How long will the young people and new voters Obama is bring to the polls stay involved when the Clinton back room deals are the deciding factor.

I don't buy into the Clinton experience and being vetted theory. when she says she worked for children's legal defense, the republicans will counter with her work on whitewater etc. It is not a dead and buried issue. When she says she has experience on the health care issue and so I should vote for her. duh-she failed and was eaten alive on this issue, so why should I give her a do-over.

And what's with a yes vote on the bankrupcy bill because she thought it wouldn't pass. Using that logic, I should vote for McCain because I don't think he'll win.

Thats why I get so mad that the DNC is angering two states that they will desperately need in order to win the election. Otherwise all is lost and we are in for 4 more years of the same old crap.

Posted by davidpga on February 16, 2008 at 11:27 PM

---------------------------------------

ahhh thank you for focusing anger where it belongs. Now we need to let them know

there is a reason our reps. are letting the ____ get stirred and we don't know what it is, but I can guarantee that this lady will spend energy getting the ones responsible replaced.

Posted by MarySnow on February 16, 2008 at 11:06 PM

Excellent post MarySnow. I believe your assessment is correct. Hillary is their worst nightmare and they are pulling ever trick in the book to keep her from becoming our nominee. It amazes me that people are so naive.

High, It doesnt change anything, I'm still mad and will vote for McCain before I will vote for Obama (Clinton will seat the Florida delegates) unless Obama allows the Florida delegation to be seated then I will support him. But, if he does not allow our delegates to be counted than I will vote for the first Republican I have voted for in 32 years. McCain

Posted by highserenity on February 16, 2008 at 11:20 PM

The bully statement and the "grow up and deal with life" personal attack finally allowed me to identify you...

so what did you see.. yourself in the mirror?
I don't know you from Adam and why am I interested in a personal attack on cyber space...comments are made in a forum and if Clinton name is thrown around so can Obama's and I was stating facts.

anyway it is too late for me to be stating the obvious if you can't see it, nothing personal

by the way i haven't decided who i am going to support, it is the barrage of the media criticism and others like you drew me to her being an underdog and to focus on her ability articulate strategy and be able to know and have the details to deliver the solution to the masses.

it is like in any company mergers and acquisition, synergy numbers are talked up but when it comes to delivery it all fizzels down without any accountability, that is more so on political propaganda. therefore i need someone who can close the deal and roll up the sleeves and deliver.

Hillary is a carpetbagger. Her state is corrupt to the bone and she likes it. She and Bill find glee in political attacks when they are the ones dishing it out. It is all a big ego game for them. Our country cannot afford any more years of the Bush/Clinton dynasty.

From today's New York Times:

Black voters are heavily represented in the 94th Election District in Harlem’s 70th Assembly District. Yet according to the unofficial results from the New York Democratic primary last week, not a single vote in the district was cast for Senator Barack Obama.

That anomaly was not unique. In fact, a review by The New York Times of the unofficial results reported on primary night found about 80 election districts among the city’s 6,106 where Mr. Obama supposedly did not receive even one vote, including cases where he ran a respectable race in a nearby district.

Florida, Ohio, and now New York, are corrupt to the core. The Clintons learned a lot from the past eight years. Cheat, lie, steal, and get the system on your side, and you too can build a dynasty for yourself.

It is time for change.

Screw you anderson, there is not a currupt bone in my body and I'm from Florida. Your post is more like the usual republican post. Trying to scare everyone into thinking like you do. Screw you.

Democrats - wake up from the Obama Dream and smell the coffee.

Posted by MarySnow on February 16, 2008 at 11:06
PM

America is a dream? Washington and Jefferson were smoking something funny in those long pipes when they started the Revolution? Those engineers and computer geeks were seriously crazy when they said we could go to the moon?

We couldn't stop both the Nazis and the Japanese Emperor at the same time? The Confederacy would destroy the United States of America? Women could never handle the stress of working in managerial positions?

Martin Luther King spoke just a bunch of words that didn't really mean anything? The Constitution is just a piece of paper with words on it? Lincoln scribbled a bunch of silly phrases on the back of an envelope because he didn't really have anything worth saying to the those who mourned the dead at Gettysburg.

Solutions come when people make them happen. You have to inspire those who will formulate the new ideas. It takes more than hard work and trial and error. It requires bringing together a variety of different people and coming to a consensus.
It takes a leader who makes people believe that it can happen.

This country is in serious trouble economically, militarily, and internationally. It will take a leader with more than inspiration, experience of the will to work hard. It will take all our leader's people coming together to make a solution work.

I refuse to listen to anyone who tries to belittle my candidate or any other. Those who continue to participate in such useless behavior had better start thinking about how they can join us when this is all over.

You're going to want to be a part of what we are going to accomplish. Yes, we Obama supporters believe that dreams can come true.

I can't help but feel that deep down all Americans think that way, too...including you, MarySnow.

Good night, all.

That was sure a mature response, davidpga,

You can live in Florida without being "Florida".

Hanging chads mean anything to you. The nation took a hit because of Florida corruption. Don't take it personally, but your state has a lot to answer for. I find it interesting that a person that is threatening to vote for McCain (davidpga) would decide to attack someone by comparing them to a republican.

Talk to your party leaders and see if you can get a real vote that will count this primary. They are keeping you from having a voice this year.

Hey, if I were Rush and Ann, and made all kinds of money from the first Clinton administration, I'd be supporting another Clinton wouldn't you?

1. This is what I will do for you This is what I can do for you. This is what I am willing to do for you. This is what I plan to do for you. You need a fighter to fight for you

2. This is what we can do. We will fight to overcome this. This is what we will do together.
This is what my plan is and if you agree, we can get it done.

The response was indicative of the comment.

"Florida, Ohio, and now New York, are corrupt to the core. The Clintons learned a lot from the past eight years. Cheat, lie, steal, and get the system on your side, and you too can build a dynasty for yourself."

If you are going to attack a group, be prepared to be corrected

i'm just afraid that obama and hillary may turn out to be laurel and hardy...

Posted by gregg on February 16, 2008 at 10:49 PM

gregg,

Now I know it will look a little peculiar with a tall man and a woman with a big ass running together, but I think we will all grow as fond of them as we did Stan and Oliver.

We've been looking at a Chimp and Darth Vader for almost eight years now. How could our candidates look and act any sillier than that?

Anderson
did you call dave corrupt?
did you attack florida?

I gotta pay better attention I missed it

Oh, and by the way anderson, the DNC is the one not counting my vote. I pulled the lever

again
the whole country is paying for the florida, michigan debacle

We are the ones who should be angry

It wasn't my reps who put my vote at risk

I can't elect/appoint reps in another messed up state and yet they affect not just all the rest of the DEMS, but the whole country is at rist because of this.

GET RID OF THOSE WHO KEEP SCREWING YOU

and quit attacking us and start supporting one of our great candidates

So High, does that mean we should get rid of Howard Dean? I would love to support one of our candidates. But again, if someone is stabbing me in the back cannot I, in my constitutional rights, decide to vote for someone who appreciates my vote? I support Florida and our right to hold elections as we see fit. Nations were begun because of these sames rights

Instead of debating the important issues, we are again having to deal with Florida's corruption.
Get a clue---reps don't sell you out unless the palms are getting greased.

Look out Texas is next.

BOTH BUSH/CORP/OIL RUN STATES

WONDER WHAT IS IN STORE? Texas is coming

And not looking forward to those that start whining because they didn't see it coming and replace their reps.
and oh by the way, they will forget about replacing them again
until next time

david
Why did you agree to the DNC rules on when each state would hold their elections?

You were the ones that negotiated your dates.
Why did you agree if it is not what you wanted?

High, I will not replace them. I dont think they have done anything wrong. I again ask you to give me one good reason why Florida shouldnt vote after the election process has already started. I can vote for whomever I wnat to whenever I wont to. If other States have already started the process why cannot I vote whenever is convenient for me!

davidpga, I agree with you on one thing; Howard Dean hasn't been responsive to either of us. He is not demonstrating any leadership qualities worth admiring when he ignores a real conflict and either just hopes it solves itself and goes away or he thinks he can make some sort of "arangement" behind closed doors that true democrats will all be pleased with. Open and honest leadership is necessary for a democratic process. The Party Leaders should be held accountable for this mess that they caused. I didn't agree with their methods for choosing which states should go first. That said, Florida and Michigan may have done all of us a favor by showing how flawed the system is. Maybe in 2012 we will get a regional primary system or some other more equitable national solution to the Iowa first New Hampshire first mentality that has prevailed. While we are at it, maybe the Democratic Party could come up with a version of Instant Runoff Voting that would deliver a more clear leader and make more voters believe they have participated in the process.

A lot needs fixing in the Democratic Party. Maybe replacing Howard Dean would be a good beginning.

Posted by davidpga on February 17, 2008 at 12:34 AM

ONE MORE TIME

Because you agreed to make rules saying that your state could only vote at a certain time.

If you are unhappy with the agreement you made.
CHANGE IT BEFORE THE NEXT ELECTION

You can't break a contract, and state the reason being because you changed your mind when the other partys to the contract are honoring their end.

Sounds pretty crooked doesn't it?

We who honored our agreements are to be drug through the mud with you again

because YOU WANT TO?

High, I didnt elect my officials nor ask them to change our date. I, as an individual and a registered voter, went to my polling precinct and voted. I as an individual decideed which candidate I wanted to support. I, as an individual thought my vote was just as important as anybody else in the country. And I, as an individual, am pissed, more than you can ever imagine, that my vote will not count. I have visions of the Boston Tea Party and the anger that the colonials expressed that ME, AS AN INDIVIDUAL, HAD NO VOTE AS TO WHAT AMERICA, AS A NATION MEANT. I HAD NO SAY. You dont have that problem. Your State followed party lines. Your state cowtowed to the DNC you were the good son. COUNT MY VOTE OR FACE THE CONSEQUENCES.

sorry last post in re: to

High, I will not replace them. I dont think they have done anything wrong. I again ask you to give me one good reason why Florida shouldnt vote after the election process has already started. I can vote for whomever I wnat to whenever I wont to. If other States have already started the process why cannot I vote whenever is convenient for me!

Posted by davidpga on February 17, 2008 at 12:34 AM

You dont have that problem. Your State followed party lines. Your state cowtowed to the DNC you were the good son. COUNT MY VOTE OR FACE THE CONSEQUENCES.

Posted by davidpga on February 17, 2008 at 12:50 AM

Very slow posters tonight

My state did not cowtow to the DNC We negotiated an agreement on when we were willing to hold our elections. This was necessary so that the whole country got the same about chance to vote. We honored our agreement/contract. It is what is HONORABLE ie/democratic party

The California leadership was chomping at the bit to move our election up since we are not to be outdone and if Florida and Michigan do it, by god we are going to . WE THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA DID NOT ALLOW IT. WE DID NOT PUT THE COUNTRY AT RISK AND THEN START WHINING.