THEY TRIED TO PAINT HIM AS THE *MUSLIM NIGGER* BUT DEMS SEE OBAMA AS THE NEW JFK

The last debate between Obama and Hillary was a cementing and riveting indication of a Democratic Sweep in the Fall. But something very interesting is afoot. Three Democrats-- college educated but white collar workers in middle age-- who only weeks ago told me that they are for Hillary-- are moving to Obama. As one put it only two weeks ago: I don't want a nigger in the White House...White House, get it!

This is a residual sense of besiegement that many middle aged whites had come to feel since the economic hard times of the 70s and 80s, when they felt that welfare was a cancer robbing them of survival. They remember Bill Clinton as the president who brought this pay-to-give-birth ballooning spiral as the weight that nearly sank the ship of state; and Bill, they say, ended it. They, therefore, defensively, used to see Obama as a return to the Welfare Boom and Hillary as even keel on welfare, as with Bill.

One should never underestimate this economic racialism that pits older whites against freeloading blacks-- it goes way back to the 60s. It is, next to Latino anti-black sentiments, Hillary's strongest SILENT social card.

But-- and here is the amazing resilience of reason that made America so great-- watching the last debate, ALL THREE, said: this man is no nigger, he's the new JFK!

YES, THEY ALL TURNED PRO-OBAMA...why?

Well it's very interesting since there are a lot of these "whiteys" in the Northeast. Obama came across as a believable unit-er with a sense of EQUAL CARE FOR ALL-- he made them all color blind, last night, despite Bill Clinton's racist efforts for the last two weeks. Obama seemed to all of them responsible and he avoided all the Jesse Jackson buzz words that had so sensitized them back then. But that made them RACE NEUTRAL towards Obama, not PRO-Obama...So what made them suddenly so pro-Obama?

Well, once Obama was no longer a "nigger" out to take from their hard earned nest egg to give to hard self-destructive blacks, they realized that he presents a picture of no longer some getting something for nothing based on skin color but of raising the water level so all ships can sail on into the sunrise of a new tomorrow, together.

The point is that these people are NOT racists. They are racialists, in that they respond to a color as code for welfare policies that they claim Bill Clinton brought to an end. These whites work with blacks and socialize with them in color blind fashion. Indeed, some of their black friends have the same attitude because they saw themselves in the same boat: retirees vs. welfare, if Obama got elected. This is what Bill Clinton so shamefully sought to exploit!

So once Obama no longer seemed to sound like the Jesse Jackson voice of fleece the corporations, paying to keep him quiet about race noise, they looked at the other aspects of Obama and Hillary.

What struck them most is that Hillary is tied down by the ankle to Bill's foreign policy. Advised by Rove-wanna-bes and neocons who moved back from the Republican Party of Bush, Clinton has come to be seen as a continuation of Bush's blood letting and throwing money at the Middle East. They recall the abysmal failure of the Clinton Mideast policies and how Bill's own National Security Director tried to steal documents, hiding them in his pants, so that the 9/11 Commission might not see them.

The key is Iran. Bill pandered to neocons and AIPAC, pushing a neocon agenda of belligerence against Iran only because neocon contributors want it. Bush kept up the Clinton policies because the same neocons that advised Clinton advised Bush.

Well, when Obama said that he would meet with the Iranians-- after sixteen years of failed Clinton--> Bush pandering to AIPAC, they saw that a new day is indeed coming in that, as president, Obama will extricate the US from a guns blazing confrontation to a sitting at the diplomatic table approach-- the very approach that SecState Rice is trying to do, too little too late. They see Obama using diplomacy and economic cooperation as carrot rather than as stick.

Hillary is stuck with the Bill-GW failed policy of aggression and threats for no other reason than because her name is Clinton and so she does what her husband's foolish neocon advisers tell her to do: you gotta sound tough of foreign policy, like a Truman on steroids, a Cold War model when there is no Cold War.

So, Americans afraid of how the dollar is turning into wall paper and our army is coming apart, realize that Bush-->Clinton-->Bush---Clinton would only mean inventing wars to keep up our Cold War level spending on war toys for use in the Mideast while troubles brew elsewhere unattended. And they realize that Bush-->Clinton-->Bush-->Clinton only means more blood shed, treasure spent while our oil dependence deepens and oil prices rise. While we give some $5 billion to Israel per year, while spending $5 billion a week attacking the very Arabs who supply us the oil that is the lifeblood of our economy, we are setting up a far greater nightmare for America's aging population preparing to retire than any welfare expenditure ever could.

Teddy Kennedy's support for Obama was the needed magic, they say, because JFK was the president who never allowed the Cold War to force us into wasting our national assets. JFK instead declared that we will get to the moon in a decade. Along the way, science and technology and higher education came to be seen as national security issues. The spin-off was amazing. And back then we avoided draining wars without ever capitulating!

Obama, they say, is another JFK-- thinking big as JFK did-- that's why Teddy endorsed him.

So, I have seen in at least three-- but certainly a lot more-- white middle class Americans a complete turn from self-defense racialism to abandonment of Mideast war focused Bush-->Clinton-->Bush-->Clinton dynasties of Israelo-Arab obsessions when, they say, we should be focusing on cutting ourselves loose from dependence on that part of the world.

This winter, their oil bills and gas bills and gasoline pump prices make them think that the Mideast is the real nigger draining their assets, not Obama.

Hillary listened to her disguised neocon advisers and let herself look like the Bush-->Clinton-->Bush-->Clinton choochoo train heading for a crash with Americans as helpless passengers on board. Obama said: stop the train, let's fix it and get it off these doomed tracks. Hillary could have been the candidate who advocated this but she is too tied to the neocon money funding her campaign and to her neocon advisers and to the neocons that came back from their Republican positions of privilege to surround Bill.

NO MATTER HOW MUCH HILLARY SAIS SHE WANTS OUT OF IRAQ, THE REPUBLICANS WILL PLAY OVER AND OVER AGAIN VIDEO FOOTAGE OF HER IN BAGHDAD, NEXT TO SENATOR MCCAIN, WAVING HER HEAD UP AND DOWN AS HE SPOKE OF HOW WE ARE WINNING AND ENDORSING HIS HAWKISH SQUAWKING-- AND THAT WAS 2006, THE WORST YEAR OF THE WAR!

Hillary sold her better judgment to advisers that live on ethnic hate OF Islamics. Obama only listened to advisers--of the same ethnic background as Hillary's-- who spoke of liberating America from the Mideast tar pool into which it is sinking. So, to them, he's now no longer the Muslim nigger, he's the American new JFK who will pull us out of the Mideast death trap on which so many crooks are making money so we can marshal our resources to liberate ourselves through education, science and technology from our fossil fuel dependency that is killing our planet.

Suddenly, Obama is getting to look more and more white, just like the White House, to these Democrats that Bill is trying to motivate racially.

It would be easy to denounce their color and ethnic perspectives. But the fact is that these are only symbols. They are not anti-black, anti-Muslim or anti-Jew. They are afraid and put their fears into a one word placard. Bill Clinton sought to manipulate these fears and to force Hillary to do the same. She has been made to seem like a camellion opportunist as a result. Obama has come to look like JFK, and he was white, so Obama is no longer a nigger to them....

There was another time that these Democrat racialists dropped their color-vision. That was when Gen. Powell was considering running for President. Not only were they ready to go color-blind, but they were ready to vote Republican if need be!

The human brain thinks a lot more complicated that we can imagine. As a neurobiologist I am always left in wonder of how plastic it is, how reasoned its thoughts are, and how it can drop its labels for common sense. But the political advisers around various candidates are the real placard-minded small brains who look down on voters as lemmings that, like moths, are attracted to lights on a TV screen. And Hillary-- who was splendid at the last debate-- may well be forced to pay the price of having listened to Bill's small minded advisers who thought they could play on the hard frozen prejudices of the little people. The little people sure fooled them now!

Well, it's the little people that made the revolution that made America great. And though 9/11 scared them into lemming-like action, now, seven years later, they are ready for change, for hope and not for Hillary because she-- as we saw at the debate-- she sounded like an idiot trying to explain away her obeying the advisers who told her to vote for war, go to Baghdad and praise the war along with McCain, all because these dumb advisers insisted on the day after Kerry lost in 2004 that only as an anti-Islam hawk on the Mideast can she ever become president.

I supported Hillary until now because I thought she could nurse America back to health. But she has been unwilling to choose between Bill and America and will now be forced by McCain in the debates to explain her head-bobbing approval of his Hawkish rhetoric on the streets of Baghdad.

The issue is neither Hillary's competence, polices or caring-- her heart and head are full of all of these. The issue is that by listening to Bill she marked herself as part of the Bush-->Clinton-->Bush-->Clinton choochoo train wreck in the Middle East legacy instead of as the innovator of a new way to make America-- first independent of bloodshed in the Middle East-- so it can again become great. It is left to the new JFK to innovate a new direction-- and he's no nigger, he's Obama!

Daniel E. Teodoru

Good morning Dems!

Maybe we all can get along: Analysis: Democratic Party a winner

Daniel, A link would be so much more appreciated than filling up the content on a new thread. There are still dial-up members here, who are terribly bogged down by content.

Thank you.........

IS BILL CLINTON TO BECOME THE AMERICAN PUTIN?
Bill Clinton and Vladimir Putin are two presidents with an identical problem: term limits. Putin's solution was to run a nice young kid for president and he would run for Prime Minister. That way Putin can hold control of Russia, but from a lower post. To us who lived in Soviet dominated East Europe all this is nothing new. We all knew that the Communist regimes would put a national as Prime Minister or minister of this or that ministry and a Soviet operative as Deputy-Minister. There's no need to guess who made all the decisions while the other gave rewritten speeches.

I supported Hillary for US President, frankly, because she is a woman and in previous encounters with her I had found her to be a really caring motherly type, be it towards her daughter, her job, her constituents or her nation. So I figured: voila!
(my wife called me an "ass-kissing liar" for my faith in Hillary, but that's how I feel). What America needs now is a loyal-- (NOTE HOW SHE LOYALLY WENT ON NATIONAL TV, AFTER THE MONICA LEWINSKY SCANDAL BROKE, TO DEFEND HER HUSBAND, DESPITE THE INCREDIBLE HUMILIATION, ATTRIBUTING THE WHOLE BRU-HAHA, TO A VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY INSTEAD OF TO A CUM-STAIN ON MONICA'S DRESS, DEFENDING HER MARRIAGE AND, TO THIS DAY, INSISTING THAT SHE HAS NO DOUBT THAT BILL LOVES HER, MAKES ME SAY: THERE GOES REAL LOYALTY TO A FAULT!)-- maternal president who will stand by us as a nation and nurse us back to health after Bush really made us sick.

A LOT OF OLD FARTS OUT THERE WILL YELL: WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL MOMMY! BUT I MUST SAY, DEAR DEMOCRATS, GIVEN WHAT WILLING DRINKERS OF THE RUMSFELD IRAQ KOOL-AID YOU ALL PROVED TO BE AFTER 9/11 AND AGAIN IN NOVEMBER 2004, YOU SHOULD REALLY RECONSIDER WHETHER YOU NEED A CARING MOMMY TO NURSE YOU BACK TO HEALTH.

But a funny thing happened on the way to the Democratic nomination primaries, Bill Clinton decided that since he's too far gone for sex, he would let out his libido politically. So off went Bill to act like a total Southern Hillbilly, in effect, telling America: You don't what a nigger in the White House...Black and White and House just don't go well together. Why did he do that? Because he knows that this argument is so low life that will will work for sure on all of us so sick that we have become low lifes Democrats. Hell, reasoned Bill, I don't need all those young Northern eeddduuucccaaattteeeddd Northern city boys and girls that turned on me because I lied about a little blow job....So let me got for the big numbers: THE VIAGRA AND POST-MENOPAUSAL RAGE DEMOCRATS. I'll get Hillary elected and then she'll owe me.

As an ex-president, Bill has top security clearance. He can stick his nose-- now his largest member-- anywhere he wants. So everything President Hillary sees, he sees. and, though she's President, she's still his LOYAL wife....And so Bill gets to be Putin-type President for eight more years....WHY, BECAUSE HE CAN!!!

Meanwhile, McCain looks like he ran over Romney with with his Truth-Express bus by smearing him with stupid lies-- lies that in the debate showed that McCain's melanoma has already gone to his brain-- just like FDR's had-- so we might get a Republican President who STARTS in office as mentally debilitated and soon to die as was FDR on the last days of his last term. No matter how gaga McCain will seem in the debates, he can always take on Hillary's I'm READY because I have been doing things for 26 years. As Senator, McCain came across as a maverick and a principled idealist. He indeed has a stellar record, while Hillary's is one of putting in her time quiet like a mouse so as not to create controversy.

The scumbag campaign pros that were sent by Bill to run her campaign have literally cut off one of her legs. As their talking Barbie Doll she was about to fade into New Hampshire snows, except for a moment of exhaustion when she let down her robot-doll face and showed the very Hillary one could easily fall in love with. And she was off to the races!

Alas, Bill can't feel very secure, having O.D.ed on Viagra and still can't get it up, and then having to see his wife make it only because she was herself. Bill like it when everyone called her "THE BITCH." He could then say, "yeah, MY bitch!" But for a fleeting moment she was the caring woman who loved America more than Bill and he got very insecure. So he stuck that bulbous nose right up the butt of Obama to prove that he's still cot a protruding member that can penetrate. Alas, that made the Democratic primaries a race syndrome instead of a choice for change and hope.

Now it's no longer Obama vs. Hillary as the Democrats who care, but it is homicidal McCain driving his Truth express bus vs. homicidal Bill driving his butt penetrate express.

So Bill may just pull it off with his secret "whitey only" in the White House message....though McCain could still win as the Weekend With Bernie" character on a stick that passes himself off as not only the REAL Senator that passed REAL legislation as opposed to the wallflower that cautiously refused to accept all offers to dance on the Senate floor. IF MCCAIN WIN'S, BE SURE YOU ALL REALIZE THAT WHAT YOU JUST VOTED IN IS A VICE PRESIDENT AND A CABINET ON AUTOMATIC PILOT BECAUSE MCCAIN IS DISABLED. In light of his sorry state, I won't bring up his political record and his personal traits. These may all be besides the point.

But what if Hillary wins? Do we get an American Putin behind her?

Bill needs a llllooooonnnnngggggg vacation in Tahiti, where he can team up with Gauguin and play in the sun. Meanwhile Hillary can do what she does best; doggedly nurse a sick America back into health, just like a real good Dr. Mom.

At any rate, Obama's defeat is America's defeat at the hands of the American Putin Grand Wizard of the Arkansas KKK. Leaving with him in racist defeat will be millions of Democrats who will never allow Bill Putin to become America's first ex-president Rasputin.

Daniel E. Teodoru

Good morning Dems!

IS BILL CLINTON TO BE THE AMERICAN PUTIN?

Bill Clinton and Vladimir Putin are two presidents with an identical problem: term limits. Putin's solution was to run a nice young kid for president and he would run for Prime Minister. That way Putin can hold control of Russia, but from a lower post. To us who lived in Soviet dominated East Europe all this is nothing new. We all knew that the Communist regimes would put a national as Prime Minister or minister of this or that ministry and a Soviet operative as Deputy-Minister. There's no need to guess who made all the decisions while the other gave rewritten speeches.

I supported Hillary for US President, frankly, because she is a woman and in previous encounters with her I had found her to be a really caring motherly type, be it towards her daughter, her job, her constituents or her nation. So I figured: voila!
(my wife called me an "ass-kissing liar" for my faith in Hillary, but that's how I feel). What America needs now is a loyal-- (NOTE HOW SHE LOYALLY WENT ON NATIONAL TV, AFTER THE MONICA LEWINSKY SCANDAL BROKE, TO DEFEND HER HUSBAND, DESPITE THE INCREDIBLE HUMILIATION, ATTRIBUTING THE WHOLE BRU-HAHA, TO A VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY INSTEAD OF TO A CUM-STAIN ON MONICA'S DRESS, DEFENDING HER MARRIAGE AND, TO THIS DAY, INSISTING THAT SHE HAS NO DOUBT THAT BILL LOVES HER, MAKES ME SAY: THERE GOES REAL LOYALTY TO A FAULT!)-- maternal president who will stand by us as a nation and nurse us back to health after Bush really made us sick.

A LOT OF OLD FARTS OUT THERE WILL YELL: WE DON'T NEED A NATIONAL MOMMY! BUT I MUST SAY, DEAR DEMOCRATS, GIVEN WHAT WILLING DRINKERS OF THE RUMSFELD IRAQ KOOL-AID YOU ALL PROVED TO BE AFTER 9/11 AND AGAIN IN NOVEMBER 2004, YOU SHOULD REALLY RECONSIDER WHETHER YOU NEED A CARING MOMMY TO NURSE YOU BACK TO HEALTH.

But a funny thing happened on the way to the Democratic nomination primaries, Bill Clinton decided that since he's too far gone for sex, he would let out his libido politically. So off went Bill to act like a total Southern Hillbilly, in effect, telling America: You don't what a nigger in the White House...Black and White and House just don't go well together. Why did he do that? Because he knows that this argument is so low life that will will work for sure on all of us so sick that we have become low lifes Democrats. Hell, reasoned Bill, I don't need all those young Northern eeddduuucccaaattteeeddd Northern city boys and girls that turned on me because I lied about a little blow job....So let me got for the big numbers: THE VIAGRA AND POST-MENOPAUSAL RAGE DEMOCRATS. I'll get Hillary elected and then she'll owe me.

As an ex-president, Bill has top security clearance. He can stick his nose-- now his largest member-- anywhere he wants. So everything President Hillary sees, he sees. and, though she's President, she's still his LOYAL wife....And so Bill gets to be Putin-type President for eight more years....WHY, BECAUSE HE CAN!!!

Meanwhile, McCain looks like he ran over Romney with with his Truth-Express bus by smearing him with stupid lies-- lies that in the debate showed that McCain's melanoma has already gone to his brain-- just like FDR's had-- so we might get a Republican President who STARTS in office as mentally debilitated and soon to die as was FDR on the last days of his last term. No matter how gaga McCain will seem in the debates, he can always take on Hillary's I'm READY because I have been doing things for 26 years. As Senator, McCain came across as a maverick and a principled idealist. He indeed has a stellar record, while Hillary's is one of putting in her time quiet like a mouse so as not to create controversy.

The scumbag campaign pros that were sent by Bill to run her campaign have literally cut off one of her legs. As their talking Barbie Doll she was about to fade into New Hampshire snows, except for a moment of exhaustion when she let down her robot-doll face and showed the very Hillary one could easily fall in love with. And she was off to the races!

Alas, Bill can't feel very secure, having O.D.ed on Viagra and still can't get it up, and then having to see his wife make it only because she was herself. Bill like it when everyone called her "THE BITCH." He could then say, "yeah, MY bitch!" But for a fleeting moment she was the caring woman who loved America more than Bill and he got very insecure. So he stuck that bulbous nose right up the butt of Obama to prove that he's still cot a protruding member that can penetrate. Alas, that made the Democratic primaries a race syndrome instead of a choice for change and hope.

Now it's no longer Obama vs. Hillary as the Democrats who care, but it is homicidal McCain driving his Truth express bus vs. homicidal Bill driving his butt penetrate express.

So Bill may just pull it off with his secret "whitey only" in the White House message....though McCain could still win as the Weekend With Bernie" character on a stick that passes himself off as not only the REAL Senator that passed REAL legislation as opposed to the wallflower that cautiously refused to accept all offers to dance on the Senate floor. IF MCCAIN WIN'S, BE SURE YOU ALL REALIZE THAT WHAT YOU JUST VOTED IN IS A VICE PRESIDENT AND A CABINET ON AUTOMATIC PILOT BECAUSE MCCAIN IS DISABLED. In light of his sorry state, I won't bring up his political record and his personal traits. These may all be besides the point.

But what if Hillary wins? Do we get an American Putin behind her?

Bill needs a llllooooonnnnngggggg vacation in Tahiti, where he can team up with Gauguin and play in the sun. Meanwhile Hillary can do what she does best; doggedly nurse a sick America back into health, just like a real good Dr. Mom.

At any rate, Obama's defeat is America's defeat at the hands of the American Putin Grand Wizard of the Arkansas KKK. Leaving with him in racist defeat will be millions of Democrats who will never allow Bill Putin to become America's first ex-president Rasputin.

Daniel E. Teodoru

Ok, well its off to work, bbl. Have a great day Dems!

US diplomats sometimes go off-message

WASHINGTON -- More and more, top government diplomats are straying from official Bush foreign policy as the administration wanes, leaving Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice struggling to keep them in check...

...Whether or not any of those incidents will have lasting implications, the gaffes and lapses on sensitive diplomatic matters have been embarrassing for an administration that attaches great importance to being "on message."

First, Lefkowitz said he believed North Korea would still have nuclear weapons when President Bush leaves office. "After four years of six-party talks," he declared, "it makes sense to review the assumptions upon which previous policy was built and make sure they are still valid today."

danielet, i find your posts most annoying. not the content so much as the repetition.

Good morning Pam, good to have you back....

Oh hey! The web page for the blog finally updated to the correct calendar day. Was here earlier but was still showing Thursday's slate of topics. Was on last night trying to introduce myself but it appears I must have been the only night owl because either the site was just REALLY slow to post or update...or I was on it by myself.

Now that there's only 2 candidates left with
Edwards gone, I don't know what to do now. Back to square one. I never was real excited about either of these two. They're not bad choices. They just weren't my first choice.

Daniel,

You make some interesting points that people need to hear. It might be better received if it was written without the rants. I completely understand, though, I went off on Bill's foreign policy deals for money yesterday too.

Inside posters, before you start calling people trolls, idiots, and Republicans, and even though the pieces above could be written without the invectives, the emotion is real.

There are many many democrats who have been watching this debate daily for a long time. I've been following it intimately since the end of October. I have voted Democrat all of my life and have been voting exclusively party line during Bush's term.

People are reacting strongly to Hillary. That sentiment is real and it will be showing up here. These are not Republican's, they are not advocating McCain. They are feeling betrayed by the Clinton's, whom they once once steadfastly supported.

Clinton supports are seeing, as I am starting to see from reports in NY Times, MSNBC, Newsweek, out just yesterday, that the Clinton's have powerful international connections. That sometimes, their decisions are not the best for this country.

Please be patient and respectful of your fellow Democrats.

Kiku: Hi. I'm new so missed yesterday info about
those media outlets stories on the Clintons
international dealings. Do you have a link where
I can go read?

Good morning, folks.

Let's say a little prayer for these people in China. I've been there and done that last year when our area was hit with a major ice storm and many lost their power for a week.

How horrible to think that many of these people are stranded far away from home and have no where to turn.

We need to address these wild weather swings. If it's not man-made, it should do what we can to minimize what effects our excessive carbon burning is doing to exasperate the situtation.

China snow leaves millions in cold and dark By John Ruwitch

GUANGZHOU, China (Reuters) - Millions of Chinese faced a humanitarian crisis on Friday, as petrol and food reserves dwindled and yet more bad weather was forecast for a country paralyzed by record-breaking cold and snow.

More than 160 counties and cities in central China were suffering blackouts and water shortages, Xinhua news agency said, including Chenzhou, in Hunan province, a city of 4 million that has been without power and water for more than a week.

"Many trees are severed and power lines have collapsed. It's like we have experienced an air raid or lost a battle," a Chenzhou hotel worker told Reuters by telephone. "It is a complete mess. We are hungry and cold."

Some 250,000 troops had been mobilized as of Friday to help with disaster relief and the army sent an armored personnel carrier to clear one ice-covered highway, Xinhua said, as millions geared up for a cold, dark Chinese New Year next week.

Stricken areas of south and central China are suffering the worst winter weather in half a century, with at least 60 people dying in weather-related accidents.

Premier Wen Jiabao again visited Hunan, with state television showing pictures of him telling provincial officials to do all they could to restore power and other services.

Miners are working overtime and coal has been given priority to speed through the rail network as Beijing fights the country's most serious power crisis ever.

"Ice on power cables is so thick that it is impossible for the power cables to carry their weight and power pylons have collapsed," Zhu Hongren, an official with the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), told a news conference...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080201/ts_nm/china_weather_dc

Welcome Dem4Prez08. Have you been called a troll yet? If not, you will be soon. Just ignore it.

a troll? No. Why?

DANIELET: Your ugly statements about bill and hillary are below the line of nastiness.
Take a chill pill, what kind of statement is that about viagra, that was awfull, your not helping your candidate.
I have been trying to think of ways that could actual support Obama, but when you post this crap, I'm sorry it just pisses me off and makes me look at the war hero McCain, so by all means keep putting out this crap and see what happens to your new JFK this november this fall!!!!

Alas, Bill can't feel very secure, having O.D.ed on Viagra and still can't get it up, and then having to see his wife make it only because she was herself. Bill like it when everyone called her "THE BITCH." He could then say, "yeah, MY bitch!" But for a fleeting moment she was the caring woman who loved America more than Bill and he got very insecure. So he stuck that bulbous nose right up the butt of Obama to prove that he's still cot a protruding member that can penetrate. Alas, that made the Democratic primaries a race syndrome instead of a choice for change and hope.

Daniel E. Teodoru

Posted by Danielet on February 1, 2008 at 09:44 AM

Oh Danny Boy,

I'm wondering, how do you see this as constructive? I've done just a bit of checking. You've been all over the place on Bill.

In one of your tirades in October of 2007, you said in the same post.

"Al From is nothing but the underside of Senator Lieberman, the "Democrat" neocon elected in Connecticut by only Republican voters against the real Democrat candidate. Above all else, they do not speak for 87% of American Jews who voted for Kerry or just against Bush and his "war on Islamofascism." The mass majority of these loyal American Jews, many who enlisted in the military after 9/11, are neither "self-hating Jews"-- as the neocons would have us believe-- nor dumb goyim, as From would have you believe. They are neither "goyim" nor "dumb" and so will not turn to mambo-jumbo that muddles whether we will expand Bush's war to attack Iran. Support for Israel is not based on whether we destroy the Arabs and Iran but whether we start from where Bill Clinton left off at the end of his presidency, realizing that you can't just have it both ways and carefully choosing every step on his way to peace in the Middle East."

and

"Clinton-- who was not such a bad president in many ways-- proved to be a model ex-President, just like Carter and Bush Sr. I am devoted to defeating diabetes and other self-abuse life style diseases through molecular geriatric medicine because of Bill's brilliant speech on health care before the 2005 Governors' Conference. The man is brilliant when he decides to be a realist instead of a swindler. But if he sends out Rove-look-alikes like From to advise Hillary, he will assure the victory of Giuliani in 2008....So Bill, apply the lesson you learned the hard way on Monica and the Middle East and let Hillary be Hillary-- a brilliant and caring woman-- instead of poisoning her with Al From's dumb advice, the way he poisoned Harold Ford in his Tennessee race."

Hindsight may be 20/20, but it also tells a story ... While Bill was listening to Al (as you suggest) Rudy was listening to you ... I'm not sure, but Al's got a better chance of being right on this one, then you do.

Not only are you all over the place, your venom deters from your message.

Mark Twain once said,

"If I had more time, I'd have written a shorter letter"

Since it's clear that you have abundant time, to generate these epic posts, you might consider the advice of Mr. Twain.

Mr. Twain was clearly a better writer.

Mr. Clinton is clearly a more effective political figure.

And that's the view from the cheap seats,

Steve

Hello? Why will I be called a troll? And what
is that?

Loved the debate last night, hope you saw it.

The last question was on target.
The ultimate Dream Team. Why not? The political world will tell us that you simply can not put two senators on the same ticket. Again I ask, Why not? They believe we must have a senator and a Governor. Hmmmmmm….. I don't buy that line.

So far, this election is partly about breaking rules. The potential of having for the first time a woman for president or an African American for president. Maybe it should also be the time we break all of the "molds" and put two senators on a ticket together. Think about it. Both candidates have a tremendous support system. When this system is combined it would be unstoppable. And that would indeed be a big CHANGE! Let us work together to win this election for the Democrats.

We have the potential to regain the White House and keep it for 16 years. Just imagine all of the great things that could happen for the poor and middle class, now that would truly be winning the "gold".

Have a good day, and be a little kinder to your opponents supporters, please.

Just hoping to help a little, firstly, clarification -
I just watched the news on MSN. The Kaz uranium deal went down before Bill Clinton and friend visited, they had no connection to that deal.
Secondly,
I just came to this page, link below. I couldn't help but notice that we have two truly great people of so much talent, intelligence and concern for the well being of our country. For the first time, in a good light and mood, I could see the possibility of a future team here. I know, like so many, this is just a peacekeeper's wishful thinking, but...they could really be a dynamic duo someday. A dream team??? Hmmm...
There are so many good Dems to put in good places on that dream team! I just wonder where they will all end up at this point...
Check this out -

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22933562http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22933562

oh sorry Dem4Prez. I'm working from home while posting and this site is really slow to update so I only check it about every 10 minutes or so. This site is mainly a Hillary-support ladies coffee clatch, so if you don't agree with them, they will call you a troll (or a Repug). If you're new, they will ignore you for a while (unless you say something anti-Hillary; then, waych out!). They're just super enthusiastic about their girl so I was giving you a heads up.

We currently have a President that takes a lot of vacation and just can't manage to show up for any emergency in a timely manner. I personally think that showing up and doing the job you are paid to do is important. So I was looking at the voting records of both Dem candidates.

Obama did not vote in about 30% of them while Clinton did not vote in just 16%.

Is there a good reason Obama missed the SCHIP vote 2 out 3 times?

Kristen,

If you're still here, I reviewed last evening's thread and saw you asked a question regarding our weather out here. I soooo wish it would do anything but snow...hailing locusts would even be a refreshing change.

We had alot of rain/snow last night causing the roadways to be hockey rinks. Soooo much F-u-n!

posted by Danielet on 1 Feb 08 at 09:26A
LOL! Didn't the racist dumbass realize that the White House is painted white because it hides the black from the fire when the Brits burned it back in 1814, during the War of 1812?
These self styled "patriots" know nothing about their own country!

The issue is that by listening to Bill she marked herself as part of the Bush-->Clinton-->Bush-->Clinton choochoo train wreck

Posted by Danielet on February 1, 2008

i fail really to see any point to your ramblings. ever repubs will not speak of the RECORD of bill clinton, only to his personal transgressions. hillary said it best yesterday when she said "it took one clinton to fix the first bush, and its gonna take another to fix this bush"

I noticed last night when I signed up here that
the site was pretty slow loading. And I've been called worse things than a troll before! LOL. It's good people are enthusiastic. It will help us take back the white house! Democrat for Prez in 2008!

Yes Danielet: I dare mess up the new civility the two candidates showed each other last evening.
I think you must be worried by Hillary's strong showing at the debate. Many standing ovations!!

Good morning Blue!

I'm glad that it mainly stays in the Mts out here but it has made for some rough travel with the passes closing everyday.

I'm ready for this stuff to move East, where it belongs ;)

Hello? Why will I be called a troll? And what
is that?
Posted by Dem4Prez08 on February 1, 2008

a troll, like many around here, is someone who throws out rumor, speculation, half truths under the guise of being one of us. (hiding under the bridge as trolls do and yelling to the people on the bridge) no one cares who you support or don't. if you post a FACT, show a place where others can verify this fact, and not from a place where the "intel" was picked through like Fox noise. there are many supporters of all candidates here, even some who have dropped out.

Posted by Danielet on February 1, 2008 at 09:26 AM

Obama is a lot of things, many of them good, but he's no JFK. As Dave Lindorff puts it (click my name for link):

Barack Obama is trying to gain the presidency on sheer sophistry. "Change" is his mantra, but change to what? He doesn't really say. His whole campaign is a feel-good exercise in ducking the issues. The United States has been pillaged relentlessly since at least the early 1970s, when Richard Nixon paved the way, with his recognition of China, for the wholesale offshoring of American industry to Asia.

Will Obama "change" this? No. He has no plan to undo the North American Free Trade Act, or to demand changes in the World Trade Organization rules. American labor unions are dying. Does Obama plan to "change" that by undoing decades of one-sided laws and regulations making it easy for employers to crush unions? No. He hasn't said a word about defending, much less expanding the rights of workers. Health care is in crisis. Does Obama have a solution? No. He is wedded to the same approach as Hillary Clinton, which leaves the blood-sucking insurance industry in charge of financing (and denying) care. The US is being bled to death by military expenditures, which in total account for more than half of the US budget when honestly accounted for in full. Does Obama plan to slash that spending, which is greater than all the military budgets of the rest of the world's nations combined? No. He has not said a word about cutting military spending (nor is he committed to ending the Iraq occupation). The Constitution has been undermined, particularly over the last six years, to the point that it is unrecognizable, with the presidency now more appropriately called an elected dictator, and Congress now little more than a talk shop. Does Obama plan to "change" that by voluntarily restoring the presidency to what it is supposed to be: just on co-equal branch of a tripartite government? He hasn't said a word about restoring checks and balances. Obama's "change" rhetoric is as empty as was Ronald Reagan's talk about America's being a "shining city on a hill."

Some 250,000 troops had been mobilized as of Friday to help with disaster relief

How many troops do we have in Iraq? What happens if there is a major earthquake in this country?

Did you notice where the Chinese leader went when disaster struct? You don't see him strumming a guitar and flying across the continent to do a fund raiser and help McCain blow the candles on his birthday cake?

How many of our National Guard have been re-deployed again since that cake was cut?

And now the Pentagon wants to give complete control to this President over all Reserves and National Gurard instead of allowing the Governors?

Pentagon control over Reserves, Guard proposed

By Philip Dine
POST-DISPATCH WASHINGTON BUREAU
02/01/2008

WASHINGTON — More than six years after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, the nation's plans for meeting the threats to the homeland are so thin they could be written "on the back of an envelope," the chairman of a national military commission said Thursday.

While the country has detailed contingency options for military action overseas, the capacity for responding to a terrorist attack or natural disaster within the United States is dangerously low, retired Maj. Gen. Arnold Punaro, chairman of the Commission on the National Guard and Reserves, said Thursday.

"You couldn't move a Girl Scout unit" with the amount of planning federal officials are doing for domestic contingencies, he said, likening it to a disorganized "sandlot game."...

The panel called for a drastic overhaul of the military structure that would put the National Guard and Reserves under the direct control of the Army and Air Force and essentially integrate the nation's "citizen-soldiers" into the military structure. The plan would include integrated training, pay, promotions, medical care and retirement — and improved resources and equipment.

Meanwhile, the Pentagon would be put in charge of homeland security, which would be carried out by the Guard and Reserves...

www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/washington/story/AF584B789F1F93B0862573E2001511BD?OpenDocument

(Emphasis mine.)

The Guard and Reserve that is bogged down in Iraq for the next 100 years if Commander-in-Chief McCain has anything to say about it?

Can you say incompetent, demented dictatorship?

jimmyc451: oh ok. Thanks. And I consider all the media outlets to be in the business of speculation and rumor or at least muckraking, not just Fox. They all have a bias and there are only about 5 people in this country that own and control all the media---print,radio, and tv combined. Each uses the outlets they own for their own agenda so I take a lot of the news with a grain of salt. Getting harder and harder these days to verify anything.

Good Morning
Listening to The Diane Remes show this a.m., it occurred to me why the main stream media, esp. the cable channels, is rooting for Barack Obama so shamelessly: They are afraid that if Hillary gets the nomination/presidency, they won't get any access because of the dispicable way they have treated her over the last 15 years!

"Can you say incompetent, demented dictatorship? "

Posted by SandyH on February 1, 2008 at 10:57 AM

I agree. Another reason we need to do everything within our power to get a Democrat elected as President.

Hey. Did anyone here see the documentary on HBO yet called Baghdad Hospital: Inside the Red Zone? It was really shocking. It was filmed by an Iraqi doctor in the ER at the hospital (until they told him he couldn't film anymore) and it basically contradicts everything we are being told by our government about how things are going over there. He said the violence gets worse every day and they showed a Shia woman in the back of an ambulence begging for the return of Saddam because she said they may have starved under him but at least they weren't dying every day in the streets. The Shias HATED Saddam and were happy at first when we invaded so for her to say that is pretty telling. The doctor who filmed it said "you will never again see a film from here" (meaning inside the Red Zone) because they don't want the truth getting out. It's being broadcast again on Saturday I think. You should watch it. It's only 45 minutes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html?_r=2&pagewanted=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin
After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton

According to the New York Times, Bill Clinton gave legitimacy to Kazakhstan’s president, Nursultan A. Nazarbayev, whose 19-year stranglehold on the country has all but quashed political dissent.

In exchange, Nazarbayev allowed Bill's buddy, Canadian mining financier Frank Giustra, to mine uranium in Kazakhstan.

Frank Giustra then thanked Bill Clinton with donations to the Clinton Foundation, totaling about $50,000,000 dollars, and pledged another $100,000,000 more.

................

I'm wondering why, why would Bill give legitimacy to a foreign leader, who suppresses voters, acting against US foreign policy?

He wasn't working for voter's rights. According to NYTimes, Clinton gave credibility to Nazarbayev even after elections won with voter fraud.

Was he working to help secure access to nuclear material (a important cause, and I will point out, one of Obama's highest priorities)? Possibly, but Frank Giustra was had never mined uranium before. Why work with Frank Giustra?

Frank Giustra pledged $100 million dollars to Bill's foundation, and donated over $50 million. This, at best clouds arguments for the nobility of working to secure nuclear resources.

In the worst case scenario, we can see that Bill Clinton supported a foreign leader who suppresses the opposition and uses voter fraud to maintain his leadership. In exchange, he received money.

Bill backs up fraudulent foreign leaders and gets paid. Now, in the US, the Clinton campaign disenfranchises voters, breaks their own pledges, turns voters away, closes doors early, hassles Obama's poll workers.

What does this mean? Do they not respect Democracy? They are willing to support leaders who use such techniques, and profit from it. Are they willing to undermine the heart of our democratic elections to maintain their power?

You would think most people would be happy to have two such attractive and competent candidates to choose from. I know I am.

I'm going to work on a few projects and check in later today.

Good morning all good Dems! I don't know if you all saw it yesterday but here is a reminder: DBDBD posted some information about companies employ and pay people to be trolls. Often times they are paid based on the number of responses that they generate. Please keep this in mind and if you suspect that someone is a troll, please do not post to them, as this is 'money in their pockets.'
Thanks everyone.
Now - I saw the debate and I did not see much that was new. Sen. Obama is an inspiring speaker; however, he does not debate as well as Sen. Clinton. To me, the most interesting question was near the end. Neither actually gave a 'firm' answer to the question of whether or not they might be willing to run together on one team. I found it interesting that they have not yet completely ruled that out. Is this the impression that anyone else got?

I don't know how any President, Dem or Repub, will get us out of that mess in Iraq gracefully no matter what the timetable. So many complicated issues over there and on so many levels.

Hey. Did anyone here see the documentary on HBO yet called Baghdad Hospital: Inside the Red Zone?
Posted by Dem4Prez08 on February 1, 2008

did you notice how as long as Americans aren't the ones dying, the surge is working?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080201/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq
BAGHDAD - Two female suicide bombers blew themselves up Friday in separate attacks on Baghdad pet bazaars, killing at least 68 people and wounding dozens, police said. The attacks were the deadliest in the Iraqi capital since 30,000 more American troops flooded into the center of the country last spring

Brrrr...to Blue from Marie in Ohio
So the latest from here? Local state news out of Columbus:

http://www.nbc4i.com/midwest/cmh/news.apx.-content-articles-CMH-2008-01-31-0017.html

Two big Mental Hospitals having to close down due to budget shortfalls; 2,700 college educated licensed social workers get to go home and share this wonderful wealth with their families on his cold day. As for the clients this is going to be interesting and I am wondering just where they will all go and who will be supervising those who have been determined to officially be of danger to themselves and others. You know, it is not California and warm all year round here...
A special thanks to Taft and the old repug farts Noe, Ney, oh, and DeLay team telemarketers hereabouts. Hope their heat bills are extra high too.

OH hoilplloi, I think that many people in the government and in the media, would definitely be scared. can you imagine after what the pugs did to her on the first day of bill first term by putting one person on her, his job was to put out negative information (untrue and true) everyday. The man whose it was to do this has openly stated that is what his job was. No if i were the republicans that did that, would i be scared of President Hillary Clinton,I would be shaking in my boots.

Good morning fellow Democrats.

I think both the candidates debated well last night. That's why it's so hard to choose. They are starting to look alike except for the experience issue and even that can be seen as a good thing or a bad thing. They even voted the same in the Senate (their records). I wasn't for either of them to be honest but now that this is the choice for Democrats, I'm stymied.

How to defeat McCain in his wishful thinking of staying in Iraq until we 'win'.

1) tell the american people that Al Queda wants us to remain in Al queda... and waste 10 billion a month to bankrupt america

2) tell the american people that we ARE NOT leaving Iraq.. but reducing the force by 80% to fight militants as they masses.. it is now a war of intelligence and not wasteful spending and american lives.. the iraqi government must take control of their own security with our help as advisors..

3) the time to fight smarter is NOW and not after spending another 1 trillion dollar..

4) how to fight smarter?

-limit spending by reducing our troops
-leave behind only 20% of our best of the best troops to eliminate insurgents
-better intelligence network (spy cams)
-learn from feudal Japan.. limit citizen travel from one town to the next.. only special passport can move to the next town
-create a passport like id for all iraqi citizens to apply.. so identification can be verified

Right now.. insurgents can come and go as they please because there is no national id card and control of movement of iraqi citizens is not control... LEARN from the PAST.. don't make the same stupid mistakes as Vietnam.. which the Republicans have allowed with no clear strategy..

Posted by jimmyc451 on February 1, 2008 at 11:19 AM

To an extent, the surge is working. The Iraqi government is not.

Morning Bob: I don't know if you saw what I sent to your yesterday regarding your most eloquent post. I thanked you for the reminders, so I again thank you.

it occurred to me why the main stream media, esp. the cable channels, is rooting for Barack Obama so shamelessly:

Posted by hoipolloi on February 1, 2008 at 11:06 AM

The media has not always been this way. Before October, Hillary was inevitable, and Obama's campaign didn't have legs. When candidates started criticizing Hillary's votes and policies, she went negative with an all too transparent series of attacks. She has fired three staff workers, and one head of the campaign. She has retooled her campaign several times.

I think the media attitude has more to do with her shameless campaign tactics of disenfranchising voters, intimidating poll workers, turning away voters, spreading lies, dividing America. This develops after watching her daily for a few months.

I'll be happy to give you a history of the campaign, with media links for any of the points above.

Posted by jimmyc451 on February 1, 2008 at 11:19 AM

jimmy,

The mad bommers never left. It's pretty obvious that they just were just laying low and using the $300 a month welfare checks that Petraus gave them to smuggle in more arms.

Can't wait to see what their spring offensive might be like with $2000 per insurgent under their belts.

Whatever happen to CNN's Christiana Ampopour and Charles Ware? Are they still covering the Middle East? Or are they now following the sniping that is going on between the Obma and Clinton camps?

bbl.

jimmyc451: And another interesting thing in the film was that this Doctor explained how much of the fighting has nothing to do with the Americans. He said the Sunnis are furious with the Shia for initially welcoming the Americans at the start of the war, and some even helped the Americans out so the Sunnis want to destroy or drive out of the country all the Shias to make the Americnas look bad. American soldiers don't really know the culture and don't know who is Sunni or Shia so they are getting caught in the crossfire and don't know who is friend or foe. Even the government sponsored police and military say they have insurgents among them so each unit has no trust for the other units. What a mess.

the surge is just a 'virtual' pretense of peace... real peace won't work until the citizens of Iraq decide to defend themselves and trust their government... there is still too much untrust... iraqi government officials are too corrupted... and after 4+ years of war in Iraq.. there is still no valid identification of Iraqi citizens... meaning anyone can move from city to city with no audit...

Posted by marymac_memphis on February 1, 2008 at 11:26 AM

Good morning. I saw it last night, Mary. You're a class act and an excellent addition to this blog. We all have our moments. It's time to move on. We have an election to win and a nation to save.

oh the other interesting thing about the Doctor who filmed the documentary inside the Baghdad hospital is that even HE finally bailed out and was given a Fulbright Scholarhsip to study in America. He is now studying journalism here somewhere. Guess people were impressed by his film and it bought him a ticket out of that hell on earth! Too bad for the patients though most of whom were very young children. It was really sad.

The american people are being squeezed to the breaking point and these corporations are wallowing in riches. I quess it doesn't hurt having your puppets running the country, eh?

Exxon, Chevron Profits Rise, Top Estimates, After Oil Surges

Feb. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Exxon Mobil Corp. and Chevron Corp., the two biggest U.S. oil companies, reported gains in fourth- quarter earnings after record crude prices more than made up for declines in output.

The three biggest U.S. oil companies netted almost $10 million an hour combined in the fourth quarter. Houston-based ConocoPhillips, the No. 3 U.S. producer, last week said its profit climbed by 37 percent to $4.37 billion.

As the world's biggest oil producer and refiner, Exxon Mobil is among the beneficiaries of demand growth. The company has now posted 13 of the 16 highest quarterly profits in U.S. history, and it has a 28 percent return on capital employed, highest among the world's 10 largest oil companies by sales.

After November the situation will, hopefully, become a bit more equitable.

Good morning all good Dems! I don't know if you all saw it yesterday but here is a reminder: DBDBD posted some information about companies employ and pay people to be trolls. Often times they are paid based on the number of responses that they generate. Please keep this in mind and if you suspect that someone is a troll, please do not post to them, as this is 'money in their pockets.'

Thanks everyone.

Posted by marymac_memphis on February 1, 2008 at 11:17 AM

Mary,

If some corporation wants to spend their hard earned dollars, on the morons that post the nonsense, as Doo Bee suggests?

I think it's an excellent way for the "right wing" to spend their dollars.

Better in "Toes", "Harpos", and the like minded morons pockets, than the pockets of Micky, Flipper, and the Huckster.

It gives a whole new meaning to "Corporate Waste". Let those morons wallow in their own waste. Its money well spent.

That's the view from the Cheap Seats,

Steve

Yang4Prez: As long as the Iraqi government members are not equally balanced between Shias and Sunnis, they will never get their act together. Those two tribes have been at each others throats for centuries.

coulter was on hannity and said if mccain is the pelican nominee she will campaign for hillary. funny stuff but the real wing nuts don't find "100 year war" mccain zany enough for their tastes. you can find the link to the video piece at redstate which is in desperate need of visitors...hahahaha

Posted by marymac_memqhis on February 1, 2008 at 11:31 AM

Everyone, please notice that the above person has copied my I.D. by replacing the "p" in Memphis with a "q". This is not me.
Michael: Is there a way to put a stop to this?

Mornin' {{y'all}}

Been perusing through the posts (as much as I have time to do lately). I'm going to agree again with Bob's post from last night with the only qualification that I'm glad we're excited again about the process and that I'm over the moon that more and more Democrats (especially young ones) are becoming informed and involved.

Yes, I'm bummed that Edwards didn't make the cut, but I am not going to succumb to knocking on the two who are left. Whatever their shortcomings and perceived "sins" may be, we have to keep in mind that (1) they're not Republics and (2) they're mega-light-years better than any Bush on their worst day. NC's primary is late, so I may not get a choice between the two after Super Tuesday. I'm good with that, actually, because of the quality of either candidate on our side as opposed to the best-of-the-best on the other.

The choice is simple, IMHO. Support a return to democracy and fairness from our candidates or "four more wars" and endless cronyism and corruption that the Republics crave. Thanks, just the same, I'll stick with supporting American law, democracy and way of life before I'd ever give a republic an inch with which to steal another mile. Evidence of Republic incompetence, cronyism, disdain for American law and way of life is overly abundant and clear for fool to plainly see.

Until there is a clear nominee, I'm throwing my support behind Obama (I have my reasons). If he doesn't make it past Super Tuesday, then I'm good with Senator Clinton. Again, either one of those on their sorriest day is still far, far better than any Republic alternative at their very, very, very best.

Keep the passion alive. Get registered. Vote. If you're not registered, call 1-800-MYVOTE1. Get your parents, children, aunties, uncles, cousins, spouses -- everybody registered. It's easy enough that there's no excuse. If your folks don't have a way to the polls on election day, carpool! Make a party out of it and celebrate together with lunch or fellowship at supper. The only way Democrats can make a lasting impression on our government, our nation, and the world is to show up and support our candidate in undeniable, cheat-proof numbers. (You know the republics are desperate enough to cheat again, big this time -- out-gun 'em!)

It is every citizen's right to exercise the franchise. It is every citizen's duty to exercise that franchise in an informed manner, recognizing the consequences and effects that the franchise will entail. This ain't American Idol; this election is the very difference in whether our nation survives as a democracy by, for, and of the people -- or will it once-and-for-all finish its slide into a despotic fascist state where our once-cherished Bill of Rights are completely rescinded. That clear choice is in your hands. Use it or lose it -- all.

Your choice. Your vote matters.

To an extent, the surge is working. The Iraqi government is not.
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama_for_POTUS_2008 on February 1, 2008

pre-surge violence was going down, why? because we started arming the very people who were killing Americans the week before, calling on them to kill Al Q and making them pledge not to kill Americans. now if the police did that on any American city street to the gangs "running" that street, would we say violence was down there because of increased police presents or because we let them do what they wanted to all along?

and there really is no such thing as an "iraqi citizen." They are split into tribal factions and unless each tribe gets a share of the power, there will be no democracy there.

Does Bloomberg still have his finger up in the air, testing to see if a third party race is feasible? If he runs, who is that going to hurt the most?

I believe the article about trolls referenced by scooby doo was one written about people who are paid to lurk on stock trading message boards and to post information for or against a stock to try to influence trading. There was no mention of political trolls in that article.

learn from feudal Japan.

What?

Oh, yes. Let's do go back to the Dark Ages. Maybe we should do it in our country, too?

It's not enough to impose our will on those that had nothing to do with 9/11. Let's just set up dictatorships and a feudal societies across the globe. And ler's burn witches at the stake while we're waterboarding people, too.

Sorry, but I just don't understand this bunker mentality. If you have to imprison the entire populace to feel safe, then you just aren't doing something right.

later.

If Coulter campaigns for Hillary.....Hillary's chances are OVER.

I sincerely hope their supporters begin acting in the same manner:

LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Democratic rivals Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama spent their last debate before next week's Super Tuesday contests pointing out differences on Iraq, health care and the economy -- but without all of the finger-pointing that's marked their campaigns.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/01/31/debate.main/index.html

Bill backs up fraudulent foreign leaders and gets paid. Now, in the US, the Clinton campaign disenfranchises voters, breaks their own pledges, turns voters away, closes doors early, hassles Obama's poll workers
T.I.T: 11:15
Please describe/explain:
"disenfranchises voters"
"breaks........pledges"
"turns voters away"
"closes doors early"
"hassels Obama's poll workers"
Thankyou in advance

The only issue that still bothers me about the Democrats though (and I am one) is that they were the ones supporting amnesty for illegal immigrants and I'm very much against this.

Posted by jimmyc451 on February 1, 2008 at 11:36 AM

pre-surge violence was down because millions of Iraqis have left the country and are now in exile. Less bodies to kill = less violence.

Steve

Posted by Growingold on February 1, 2008 at 11:35 AM
Steve: That is one good way to look at it. My concern stemmed from the fact that the trolls 'bait' a lot of good Democrats into posting to them on non-relevant subjects. Sometimes to aruge an issue is to lend it creedence, so to speak. All good Dems should have a place to address issues, debate differences and learn more about Democratic positions without the kind of 'bs' that trolls impose here.

If Coulter campaigns for Hillary.....Hillary's chances are OVER.

Posted by FloridaDemToo on February 1, 2008 at 11:41 AM

FDT,

Finish this sentence, please.

The above post is productive and accurate because,

Steve

Thanks Michael!

Mary,

In principle we're in total argeement. I usually, read past certain names, like they're not even there. However, I sometimes have to remind myself, that their comments are usually so imflamatory and filled with hate. That anyone that does read them are brought to anger. If that anger is bred in an undecided Independent breezing though the blog, it probably benefits us.

It's just a thought,

Steve

TO ALL THOSE OBAMA SUPPORTERS: You will need as of this point in time stop the slime coming out of your mouths about Hillary Clinton.
Moveon.Org just endorsed Obama, so my advise to all of you is that you now at this time or you will split the DNC permanently.
Not a good idea to try to smear Hillary anymore. I know for sure I will be watching this blog and as well others and WILL jump ship and vote against the democrats in November as well as in the primary!!!!!

The above post is productive and accurate because,

Steve

Posted by Growingold on February 1, 2008 at 11:47 AM

...because Coulter has more enemies than friends and is even less well liked than Hillary.

Wikipedia Bias:

And just who is Margie Schoedinger?

She was a 38-year-old Texas woman who filed a sexual assault lawsuit against George W. Bush in December 2002.

Oh, and there's one other interesting detail: the next year, Schoedinger was found dead of a gunshot wound.

Let's imagine for one moment if a woman had filed a sexual assault lawsuit against Clinton---and let's say that woman was found shot to death a year later.

Do you think the mainstream media would ignore such a story?

I think we all know goddamn well the answer to that. The fact is, the media would give such a story around-the-clock, saturation coverage that would make the Monica Lewinsky media frenzy look tame by comparison.

http://www.beggarscanbechoosers.com/2008/02/wikipedia-continues-to-sanitize-bush.html

Having Coulter on your side is like getting the Devil to plead your case to St Peter for entrance into heaven!

amnesty for illegal immigrants and I'm very much against this.

Posted by Dem4Prez08 on February 1, 2008 at 11:43 AM

I understand your point of view. I remember back in 1986 when "Ray-Gun" swore that after that amnesty our boarders would be secure. I'm still waiting. In the mean time, what do we do with all of the people who are here? It will cost a 'ton of money' to deport them and what good will it do if the boarders leak so badly that they will be back within a week of being deported? If we ever do manage to secure the boarders, which seems unfortunately questionable regardless of which party is in charge, what do we do with all of the people that are already here? This is a very frustrating subject!

I have to go for a little bit. Nice meeting you folks and if you ahev time this weekend, do watch "Baghdad Hospital: Inside The Red Zone" on HBO. There is a showing at 5pm and another at 8pm and after that it's gone. Those two showings are on different HBO channels though. On Directv, it's channel 502 for the first and 505 for the next. It was really fascinating and very telling about the lies we are being told. And since it was not filmed by OUR media but by an Iraqi ER Doctor, I found it to be more genuine. Out of the horse's mouth so to speak.

i wasn't suggesting coulter's support was a good thing, just funny and idiotic all at the same time.

sorry...forgot the day of the HBO documentary. That's 5 and 8 pm on Saturday.

If Coulter campaigns for Hillary.....Hillary's chances are OVER.

...because Coulter has more enemies than friends and is even less well liked than Hillary.

Having Coulter on your side is like getting the Devil to plead your case to St Peter for entrance into heaven!

All Posted by FloridaDemToo on February 1, 2008

Do you really think Coulter supports Hillary Clinton? And if you do, I have a Bridge in Brooklyn I like you to consider making an investment in.

It's at times like this I usually turn to a Bull Durham quote.

"Having a conversation with you is like a Martian talking to a Fungo." -Crash Davis

Steve

amnesty is straight from the Republican spin machine.

If you listen to the actual proposal, it is not amnesty, it is a plan to allow people get in good standing with the government and includes penalties for entering the country illegally.

In a recent LA Times/Bloomberg study (Nov 2007) 60% of 1467 adults polled support a plan that provides a path to citizenship.

While Debate Rages, the Public Continues to Support Realistic Immigration Solutions

I have a stupid question, but I hope somebody here knows and can answer me. What time do the polls open Tuesday, February 5th in New York City?

I have a stupid question, but I hope somebody here knows and can answer me. What time do the polls open Tuesday, February 5th in New York City?

Posted by DianeMD on February 1, 2008 at 12:19 PM

Primary Elections
In New York City and the counties of Nassau, Suffolk, Westchester, Rockland, Orange, Putnam and Erie, POLLS OPEN AT 6 AM - CLOSE AT 9 PM. In all other counties, POLLS OPEN AT 12 NOON and CLOSE AT 9 PM.

Hi Diane, they are open from 6am to 9pm

You can get more information here:

http://www.nydems.org/supertuesday.php

I not sure the moveon.org endorsement is such a good thing for obama, especially in the general election. the pukes will have a hayday with that.
So Obama camp this am is smearing the Clinton campaign with an fred and louise commercial, funny since his plan is not anywhere near as good as hers. His plan is not going to help with the people that refuse to get insurance, even though they make 75,000. yearly. what they do is get free care in the er's of america. that will not change the dynamic of the healthcare crisis. i am a healthcare worker and believe his plan will not change anything.
I amazing that moveon.org endorses a candidate with a healthcare plan that is inferior to that of hillary's.
Moveon.org's ad about healthcare is a good ad and it makes people think about and then they endorse the candidate that has the inferior plan.

This is such a travesty, i can't believe, i believe that their is a power struggle going on in the dnc and their freaking doing it at the expense of the american people.
Now, that being said, apparently, when ted kennedy ran in 1980, it was a bitter fight that resulted in reagan getting elected because ted refused to stop fighting. this sure sounds familiar.
Obama's camp constantly misquoting her record and such. FREAKING RIDICULOUS!!!

Coulter is known for sarcasm, among other things. On the rare occasion that she appears on my TV, I turn the channel.

Payrolls Drop for 1st Time Since 2003 Friday February 1, 10:34 am ET By Jeannine Aversa, AP Economics Writer Employers Cut Payrolls for 1st Time Since Summer 2003; Jobless Rate Dips

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Nervous employers cut 17,000 jobs in January -- the first such reduction in more than four years and a fresh sign that the economy is in danger of stalling.
The Labor Department's report, released Friday, also showed that the unemployment rate dipped slightly to 4.9 percent, from 5 percent, as the civilian labor force shrank slightly.

Job losses were widespread. Manufacturers, construction firms and a variety of professional and business services eliminated jobs in January -- reflecting the toll of the housing and credit debacles. The government cut jobs, too. All those cuts swamped job gains in education, health care, retailing and elsewhere.

Wage growth also slowed, another indication that employers are tightening their belts amid the economic slowdown.

The unemployment rate declined a notch, from 5 percent in December to 4.9 percent in January. The jobless rate -- calculated from a different statistical survey than the payroll figures -- dipped as people, perhaps discouraged by their prospects, left the labor force for any number of reasons.

Taken together, the figures suggested that employers have grown cautious as they try to cope with fallout from housing and credit problems and rising worry about the ailing economy...

What a strange world we live in. Our economy loses 17K jobs and yet the unemployment rate dips 0.1%. Why? The baby boomers are retiring. They are moving from realm of tax paying citizens to tax sucking citizens. And that is going to cost trillions.

How do we fix that, you ask? It's real easy. Remove the current FICA cap for employee contributions. Currently, all of us with legitimate jobs pay 6.2% on the first ninety thousand dollars, or so, of income. Our employers are obligated to match that contribution. Removing the cap for employee contributions ensure the fat cats pony up without creating a 6.2% drag on a slumping business economy. Class warfare, you say? You bet your...

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 11:54 AM

Why don't you just vote for the republicans now and get on with it already? Better to betray your country early out of your own selfish desires rather than having to wait, right?

Mary,

We've debated this for years. I've been dead-set against dignifying obvious troll posts since this blog began. Some folks just don't see it that way and just cannot resist. Most of the trolls have such predictable, greasy fingerprints they're easily recognizable within two sentence. Most of the time I roll my eyes and think, "that boob just never gives up" and ignore the bait. Some posters have the mis-impression that they're "sharpening their debating skills". Bullshit. I say they need remove the hook from their mouths and keep their eyes on the prize.

Yes, there are and have been paid trolls since the beginning of the blog. There probably always will be. There are also sociopaths who get off on being disruptive. "Disruption" is not the same as "offering an opposing opinion". The difference is (or most certainly should be) patently obvious to even the most casual of readers. A person who differs in approach or opinion on a given matter will politely state their reasons and listen politely to politely-offered responses.

A troll will just call you a commie or worse. That's not "offering a different opinion". That's disruption; sociopathic pure and simple. WTF take the bait?

I've posted it time and time over that if they're not dignified with a response, they won't get more than a toe in the door. I'll get PO'd about troll-feeding, post my opinion and sometimes for a day or two it's quieter. But there are those who cannot and will not resist giving in.

To each their own. I still love my longtime blogmates, just as they are.

There are a LOT of folks on dialup. I'm on satellite internet, which isn't much better. The trolls know this. The more shyte they post, the less that legitimate folks have access to the blog. That's also why we post links instead of complete eight-page articles -- it's only polite. We should keep in mind what the trolls themselves have admitted: it's not about who posts here -- it's about who reads.

That's why I feel strongly about not dignifying trolls with a response. "Debating" (a totally inappropriate term for "feeding") a troll only chews up bandwidth and has never, ever, ever, even once in the last five years changed the course of a "conversation" with a troll, nor has it changed the mind of a single committed Democrat. Just sayin'.

You'll get to where you can spot the same three or four inveterate (invertebrate) trolls. Gawd, they haven't had a new tactic in five years I've been watching this blog. I'm glad that you are here and I'm glad that you're looking out for your fellow Dem. All I'm saying is don't get frustrated if the same people respond to the same trolls. It's just the nature of the blog and QED it's not going to change.

There's still more than enough value to be had here that it's worth (1) stepping around the cowflops and (2) persevering in attendance. Many folks here have become offline friends of mine and we correspond a LOT by back-channel. The trolls have no idea what goes on where they can't see -- and it's a lot. Just sayin'.

West Virginia is considering a bill to teach schoolchildren how to handle a gun and hunt safely its proponent hopes will increase state revenues from hunting licenses, a state lawmaker said Thursday.

"We will teach a hunting safety course during their physical education class," state senator and bill sponsor Billy Wayne Bailey told AFP. The courses would be imparted in secondary schools, from the eighth to 10th grade (13-16 years of age).

"They will learn gun safety, the proper use of fire arms. All the weapons will be disabled so there is no chance of discharging," he said, adding that the state Senate was expected to take up the bill next week.

"Hunting is an economic and cultural thing and we have seen a decline of hunting licenses over the past years," said the lawmaker, explaining that his bill would boost interest in hunting in West Virginia.

Children 10 years and older can already apply for a hunting license in West Virginia, which makes 1.5 billion dollars a year from hunting-related activities, the senator said.

Copyright AFP 2007

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080201141120.x8hzrof7&show_article=1

It is nice to know that tax dollars are going to be spent in making our children more efficient killers. While we're at it, why don't we just do away with all gun laws and have everyone carry firearms as we did over a century ago? The knuckle-draggers have really scraped themselves up on the pavement for this one.

blue in idaho: i probably will. I trust Mccain more than ted kennedy that for sure.
So what i am hearing is that ted got mad at Hillary because she didn't mention JFK in the statement about the civil rights amendments that johnson sign in. Is that not just the most childish statement i have ever heard.
In other words, You bow to me and my brother memory or i will cut you down like a weed. THIS IS NOT THE POLITICS OF HOPE!!!

How do we fix that, you ask? It's real easy. Remove the current FICA cap for employee contributions. Currently, all of us with legitimate jobs pay 6.2% on the first ninety thousand dollars, or so, of income. Our employers are obligated to match that contribution. Removing the cap for employee contributions ensure the fat cats pony up without creating a 6.2% drag on a slumping business economy. Class warfare, you say? You bet your...

Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama_for_POTUS_2008 on February 1, 2008 at 12:33 PM

Bob,

Have I mentioned today that I love you, in a non-gay kinda way.

In fact, you don't even have to eliminate the cap. Just raise it from the current 6.2% of the 1st $85,000 of taxable income, to $200,000.

Steve

Latinos for Hillary Clinton comes together for another MD/VA/DC Phone Bank before Big Tuesday!
By speaking to undecided voters about why we support Hillary, we can potentially make a difference in who they decide to vote for. The voters we contact can help Hillary win important states on what Senator Menendez calls “Latino Tuesday”! Read more . . .

http://www.latinosforclinton.com

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 11:54 AM

If you think you can pull that off you're certainly entitled to attempt such. However, there is a flaw with your logic. Sen. Clinton is counting on the uneducated sheeple. If she is defeated in the primary the sheeple will stay with the party. They're sheeple!

Sen. Obama (D-IL) can win in November by 15% - 20% if he runs a smart campaign. It's 50-50 as to whether Sen. Clinton (D-NY) can win by 2% especially against Sen. McCain (R-AZ).

Well I guess it's a good thing we are sooo busy fighting them over there, because if we had to fight them here we would be screwed.

Military unready for homeland attack, says study

Right now we don't have the forces we need, we don't have them trained, we don't have the equipment," commission Chairman Arnold Punaro said in an interview with The Associated Press. "Even though there is a lot going on in this area, we need to do a lot more. ... There's a lot of things in the pipeline, but in the world we live in -- you're either ready or you're not."

I trust Mccain more than ted kennedy that for sure.

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 12:40 PM

Floyd,

I was just wondering which John McCain you trust. The one that was against GWB's tax package, or the one that wants to make it permanent?

Steve

Iraq Female bombers kill 98
Two mentally disabled women were strapped with explosives Friday and sent into busy Baghdad markets, where they were blown up by remote control, a top Iraqi government official said.
The bombs killed at least 98 people and wounded more than 200 at two popular pet markets on the holiest day of the week for Muslims, authorities said. Full Story:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/02/01/iraq.main/index.html

Bob, As a teeny tiny business owner, if you raise or remove that cap, you will cripple a lot of Mom & Pop businesses.

I will never trust the endorsement of any senator that left his girlfriend for 45 minutes under water to drown. He should be in prison, just like mike.
The kennedy's have an anger problem, my way or the highway problem.
Bill Clinton is the one that brought this country back from reagonomics. Now we just say that what he did for us doesn't count because of monica, I don't think so.
Kennedy's Marilyn Monroe, Mary Jo Kopeckney, Molly the eighth grader that was killed by mike and just went to prison 20 years after he did it.
The kennedys are really what you call family values. Folks im not saying anything here that the puks wont say come the general election.
the kennedys that are worth anything are backing Hillary.

Posted by Growingold on February 1, 2008 at 12:41 PM

Why Steve, I didn't know you care! I love you, too, with the same provision, of course. ;-)

That is until we find something to disagree about. You, sir, are a formidable debater.

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 12:47 PM

I'll make sure that I look for Ted Kennedy's and Bill Clinton's name on my voter ballot...cuz a vote for Sen Obama is a vote for Ted and a vote for Sen Clinton is a vote for Bill right?

This is starting to sound like a bad movie...Bill and Ted's excellent adventure...

In the worst case scenario, we can see that Bill Clinton supported a foreign leader who suppresses the opposition and uses voter fraud to maintain his leadership. In exchange, he received money.

I hate to tell you, but the Clinton Foundation which received the money, is a Charitable trust. Bill Clinton receives no money!

{{Pam}}

Good to "see" you back, my friend.

Idnit funny how the republic spin-machine can recall any of the least Democratic pecadillos from 40 years back, but are somehow incapable of recounting Dumbya's lies from just yesterday. That selective memory never ceases to amaze me.

The John McCain that was the war hero, and not the coward that his girlfriend to drown in a car!
The John Mccain that has crossed over to work with the democrats
The John McCain that opposed the Bush tax cuts twice.

Honestly is anyone truly swayed to change their vote because of endorsements?

I don't have enough hero worship for anyone to just blindly follow because they like one candidate over another...generally if we are talking political endorsements I'm going to assume there is some political wrangling for favors involved and celebrity endorsements are about as important to me as who wore what to which awards show. (both rate about zero in importance)

I want a candidate that really wants the job, has shown they are willing to do the hardwork in the job they currently have and that politically speaking we agree on the policies that mean the most to me.

Bob, As a teeny tiny business owner, if you raise or remove that cap, you will cripple a lot of Mom & Pop businesses.

Posted by Hunt on February 1, 2008 at 12:46 PM

Hunt,

I'm a teeny tiny business owner myself. You need a new accountant. Our country's policy of borrowing its way out of debt, is tightening the availability of cheap financing for you and I, to grow our businesses. The increasing cost of fuel is the real problem for me.

6.2% of $120,000 is less then $10,000 in PRETAX DOLLARS, on a total of $200,000 of total income. The net after tax cost of this money isn't as significant as you might think. I look forward to paying my fair share, if I can get my total income to $200,000

Believe me when I tell you, there are people out there that can't see a way to make $35,000 this year, let alone $85,000 $200,000. They'll be losing a significantly higher percentage of income in FICA this year, then those at $85 - $200,000 level.

Steve

Posted by Hunt on February 1, 2008 at 12:46 PM

I appreciate your concern. I'm not advocating raising the employer contribution, just the employee contribution. Therefore, in theory, it should not affect the small business owners unless, of course, they're in a position to pay themselves more than $90K per year in salary.

The John McCain that opposed the Bush tax cuts twice.

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM

and now wants to make them permanent

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM

The John McCain that advocates staying in Iraq for a century? The John McCain that is now pushing to make the Bush tax cuts permanent? The John McCain that has vowed to put a fifth conservative on the SCOTUS? You can have him Floyd. I, nor the sensible people of this great nation, want any parts of that package.

Yes Kristin, thats what I want a candidate with a proven record not rhetoric.
In 2002, Obama was a state senator objecting to the war. Well, he didn't have the classified information thrown at him. So he can now sit back and armchair quarterback what he would have done. He also could have voted for not funding the war to stop it quickly and he did not, so what he is saying is political rhetoric and bs.
As far as the Iran vote, he decided not to show up for the vote, because it was politically worrisome, so what did he do, just dont show up, just like the 132 presents he voted in the state senate.

The John McCain that has had terrible rage issues his entire life?!

The John McCain that wants to keep American Troops in Iraq for 100 years?!

The John McCain that still can't admit Veit Nam was a loss?!

The John McCain that was just endorsed by Gouliani? (The man that had an affair with another woman while Mayor of NY and whose wife sought a restraining order to keep his mistress out of the Mayor's Mansion?) - If endorsements matter how do you feel about this one?

The John McCain that is older than Reagan?!
(Should we be concerned with his failing grasp on reality?!)

Don't Be Fooled by the Myth of McCain

Posted by oregon*dem on February 1, 2008 at 01:04 PM

Perhaps you missed the main point: our tax dollars shouldn't be used to teach our children to hunt....or build bridges to nowhere, or so churches can preach their ministry, or so corporations can buy more farmland...etc.

Idnit funny how the republic spin-machine can recall any of the least Democratic pecadillos from 40 years back, but are somehow incapable of recounting Dumbya's lies from just yesterday. That selective memory never ceases to amaze me.

Posted by TheOriginalHillWilliam on February 1, 2008 at 12:55 PM

{{{Bill}}}

It is especially funny to me, to see the desperate Repugs dig as deep as they can to try and blame Bill Clinton for every bit of Criminal, Corrupt crapola going on with this Administration! Watch how somehow this new recession is Bill's fault. How this price of oil somehow is his fault. How the 4000 dead US troops somehow was because of him!

Well, bob and blue, i am having a hard time trying to get interested in obama with all the crap that the obama supporters spew. makes me think they are getting straight from the horses mouth as they did when bill supposedly said racist statements. obama is running a nasty campaign and has been for a long time. it just doesnt get the press as much as hillary negative campaign.
The utube video over the summer with her looking like big brother or gestopo. gimme a break that ad was traced directly back the obama's campaign.
He also did snub her during the state of the union message, because his campaign manager axelrod, said he was trying to give time for her to speak with ted. well, her hand was pointing towards obama not ted. lies, lies and more lies, just like the slime machine of the puks, forget it, i wont be voting for mccain, i will just vote against the democrats.

Just a drive by posting. Can anyone say 'Duh'??

Bush sees 'troubling signs' for economy

Ok, bbl...

Good afternoon:

US Soldier Killed;
British Base Rocketed;
Bombings in Baghdad

People keep asking in puzzlement what Bush expected to get out of his Iraq misadventure. It is the oil, habibi, the oil.

Akhbar al-Khalij newspaper is charging that US oil interests offered each Iraqi parliamentarian $5 million to pass the oil and gas law (hat tip to Digby.

Steven R. Hurst of AP writes that Shiite militiamen in Basra sent 20 rockets on the British base out at the airport, wounding 3 UK servicemen. The British responded with artillery fire at the positions from which the rockets were launched. Some 10 Iraqis were killed or wounded in the exchange.

AP reports Baghdad violence, including the killing of another US soldier by a roadside bomb and the bombing that killed 5 in the Shiite sacred district of Kazimiya.

Hurst observes: "The two attacks — in areas considered relatively stable — were troubling reminders that recent improvements in Iraqi security were fragile and far from deeply rooted. The Basra battle also exposed potential security gaps around Iraq's second-largest city less than two months after a scaled-down British force handed over control to Iraqi police and military. Rival Shiite factions are locked in fierce struggles for dominance in Basra and the rest of the oil-rich south."

Explosions in Kazimiya are always very dangerous because the Shiite shrine to the 7th Imam is there, and we have seen how upset Shiites are when their holy shrines are blown up.

As for Basra, I assume that the Shiite militias attacked to influence British public opinion further in the direction of a quick withdrawal from the city.

==============================================

So much for the "surge has worked" bullcrap.

The surge has failed.

Bush/Cheney have failed.

Neocons want to keep us in Iraq permanently. There is no such thing as "victory".

The GOP party is tied to the neocons.

McCain, Romney are nothing but neocon supporters. That makes them failures as well.

posted by Sandy H on 1 Feb 08 at 10:57A
These idiots have absolutely NO CLUE!!!!!
While the Guard assets are under the control of their various state governors, THE RESERVES ARE ALREADY FEDERAL FORCES AND HAVE BEEN SO SINCE THEY WERE FOUNDED IN 1908!!!!!!!
I can tell you for a fact that the Bushiato is putting a new spin on STOOOPID!!!!!!

The Pentagon has always had a say in the Guard's use of its equipment and its training. Bush has already basically federalized the Guard with his phony "war" and "turrerust" threats, which means that it is already under Pentagon control.
The Deserter-in-chief either doesn't know how his own military operates or this is another ploy to scare people into thinkng that he knows what he's doing, and we should support his dementia, no questions asked.

The horse shit keeps getting piled higher and deeper.
Please impeach this nutcase! Hasn't he done enough damage??????

Posted by oregon*dem on February 1, 2008 at 01:04 PM

I did think of that. This is the twenty-first century. We do not have to go into the woods like a bunch of primitive hunter-gatherers to round up tonight's supper. And you're going to seriously advocate teaching a bunch of pubescent bags of conflicting impulses how to properly handle a firearm so the next time they get on one of their hormone driven rages they can make the most efficient use of said firearms to gun down their classmates, their parents, the schmuck in the mall who looked at him or her funny?

How many more Columbines do you want to facilitate? How many more VA Tech's? If children want to learn about firearms, they can have a great career in the United States Armed Forces or their state National Guard. You remember the National Guard. That's the "well-regulated militia" our Second Amendment refers to and not a bunch of shotgun toting, Budweiser swilling yahoos stomping up the countryside on a weekend rush of testosterone.

Bush sees 'troubling signs' for economy

Ok, bbl...

Posted by margotb822 on February 1, 2008 at 01:17 PM
==================================================

Murderous Chimp Bush!

Blue...
That Margie Schoedinger story, is that for real???!!! I have never heard that one before and I suspect, no one else. That is creepy and very scary. Hey! Lookie here! Ghost found in a cactus bush!

http://www.beggarscanbechoosers.com/2008/02/wikipedia-continues-to-sanitize-bush.html

That is big news if real and should be looked into, shocking but not surprising when you look at that Mukaski thing going on right now. This is getting so bad one wonders if this repwhatever admin will last the year. Also wonder what Ron Paul would have to say about this. A. Specter is not happy at all in his questioning. I think there will be an exodus of repwhatever voters this next year and would like to invite them over to ours via the red-purple-blue bridge. There can only be so many facts and so much denial for so long..ya can't fool all the People all the time.
Thanks for sharing that big fat bleached and erased foopah! I would say this one is definitely in the active para normal category.
Just blown away...

*SEX!*.....NOW THAT I HAVE YOUR UNDIVIDED ATTENTION....

I do not post out of a desire to expose myself. Actually, I would much prefer to discuss anti-inflammatory actions of statins or the Vietnam WAr or the War on Terror or how to fit Israel peacefully and productively, in the words of Buber, "as a light onto the [Arab] nations." And, actually, I was totally A-POLITICAL in the time of Bush, losing myself in retrospection instead of prospection, wishing to write on the Cold War. In fact, on 9/8.01 I got a card from that wonderful Borders' Bookstore in the World Trade Center that the three Cold War history books I ordered had come in. Ironically, on that beautiful morning of 9/11, on crutches, on my way to the orthopedist, I stopped off at the World Trade Center to pick up my books....the rest is history.

I had supported Bush because I had been ashamed of what Clinton had done in the White House and in the Grand Jury-- STILL I FELT IMPEACHMENT WAS A VERY DANGEROUS THING TO DO. But, like most people, I blamed it on Clinton. YET, I CAME TO KNOW A LOT OF AMAZING THINGS BILL CLINTON DID AND I CAME TO BELIEVE HIM BRILLIANT....I also admired hillary's courage and loyalty under intense fire-- that's what makes women so much better men than most of us men. LATER, I HEARD BILL CLINTON TALK ON HEALTH CARE AND FOUND MYSELF WRITING HIM LETTERS OF APOLOGY FOR MISJUDGING HIM....As I became a Democrat disgusted with all the WASH DC BUSHIT, I came to realize that DEMOCRATIC POLITICS ARE AS CROOKED AS REPUBLICAN POLITICS, ***EXEPT*** THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS AT GRASSROOTS AND BASE FULL OF IDEALISTIC YOUNG PEOPLE-- LIKE MY KIDS-- WHO KEEP IT ABLE TO HAVE *HOPE* AND *CHANGE*-- UNLIKE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FULL OF YOUNG BUREAUCRATIC CANNIBALS SEEKING TO CLIMB THE POWER LADDER.

Obama fired up the kids and he did it more than anyother Democrat. Alas, Rove made us a sick nation and we need nursing back to health. TO ME HILLARY SEEMED LIKE THE IDEAL LOYAL, DETERMINED AND CARING DR. MOM TO NURSE AMERICA BACK TO HEALTH.

But look at how a stellar and historic performace by both Hillary and Obama at the Los Angeles debate-- one that finally made me proud again to be an earthling, an American and a Democrat-- had to be ruinned when it could have been flawless because Hillary had let a bunch of neocon scumbags push her into War on Terror BUSHIT for so many years. She sounded as gaga as did McCain when exposed by Romney at their last debate. HILLARY WAS VICTIM OF ALL THOSE NECONS THAT PUSHED HER HEAD FIRST INTO BUSHIT THE DAY AFTER KERRY LOST THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE IN 2004.

Did Hillary believe the Bushit in 2003? 2004? 2005? 2006?

That's Obama's point. If it becomes a DREAM TEAM of Hillary and Obama en route to a Golden Sixteen Years of Democratic Revolution, HISTORY will note that what the Republicans destroyed through greed, Clinton-->Obama resurected through idealism....through HOPE AND CHANGE.

But if Hillary debates McCain, he will remind her: Hillary, if the Iraq War is no pointless that we must abandon it now, how come you stood next to me, filmed on video, with your head bobbing in approval of everything I was saying in support of Bush policy on the streets of Baghdad the way you were videoed at Wal-Mart Board Meetings with your head bobbing up and down in approval of the union-busting plans the Chairman was spewing?

WHAT WILL SHE SAY THEN? WHAT WILL SHE SAY ABOUT BILL'S RACIST INSTIGATIONS?

I came to admire Bill. As an ex-President speaking about health care he motivated me to go back into health care and wark for free. So I must say, BILL IS A NATIONAL TREASURE.

But Bill grew up knowing only dirty politics and by now it is an imprinted instinct in him. So when he unleashed he was dirt from the git go...HE LOST HILLARY TED KENNEDY...How bad can you be when you lose Hillary Mr. Democrat?

WRITING WHAT I WROTE IN THESE BLOGS MAKES ME SICK. I GO INTO ARRYTHMIA AND HYPERTENSION AND AM SHAKING WHEN I FINISH. FOR ME THIS IS NOT A GAME. IT IS THE END OF A DREAM BECAUSE IF *BUSHIT* IS THE BEST WE CAN GET, THEN MY DEAD FATHER FORCING US INTO A TRECK ACROSS THE GLOBE TO BE PART OF THE "PARADISE OF FREEDOM," AMERICA IS A DUMB SHIT PIPE DREAM OF AN EAST EURO FOOL.

I NOW HAVE AMERICAN CHILDREN, AMERICAN GRAND CHILDREN....WHAT DO I TELL THEM WHEN THEY SEE ON TV BILL'S RACIST ANTICS? HOW DO I CONVINCE ALL MY PRO-OBAMA CHILDREN NOT TO GIVE UP AND FIGHT FOR HILLARY IF IT ALL MEANS CRAZY BILL'S ANTICS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

INSTEAD OF VAPID ATTACKS ON ME, DEAL WITH THEASE QUESTIONS. FOR I DON'T COUNT. SOON I'LL BE DEAD....BUT SHOULD MY DREAM OF A GREAT AMERICA DIE WITH ME?

I MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM A LOT OF YOU. FOR ME THIS IS THE LAST OASIS. SO MAYBE THAT'S WHY I YELL FIRE, FIRE LOUNDER AND MORE DESPERATELY THAN MOST OF YOU....AS A REFULEE I NEVER HAD A CHILDHOOD-- LIKE MILLIONS OF OTHER VICTOMS OF WW II AND AFTER I HAD THE FIRE NIPPING AT MY HEELS AS WE TRECKED WEST. I KNOW THE SMELL OF BURNING FLASH. I'VE BEEN IN THREE WARS SO I KNOW WHAT DEATH IS LIKE, I KNOW THE SELL OR ROT, I KNOW THE PAIN AND SUFFERING, I KNOW WELL THE LINGERING HATE THAT VICTIMS NEVER FORGIVE AS THEIR SOULS ARE FOREVER TORMENTED.

I ONLY WANT BILL TO THINK ABOUT WHAT ***OUR COMMON GENERATION*** SUFFERED WHILE HE GOT LAYED IN LONDON, PRAGUE AND MOSCOW. I WANT HIM TO REALIZE THAT THIS ELECTION IS NOT ABOUT HIS EGO BUT ABOUT HIS WIFE NURSING THIS DYING NATION LANGUISHING THE THE ICU, POISONED BY BUSHIT.

DEAL WITH THAT, NOT WITH ME.

DEAL WITH YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS THAT BILL SO RECKLESSLY CARVED INTO POLAR CAMPS BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY POLITICS HE COULD THINK OF....HE IS BETTER THAN THAT...YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT....SO HILLARY AND OBAMA-- BOTH OF WHOM ARE LAYING THEIR SOULS IN THIS RACE-- SHOULD NOT IGNONIMOUSLY BE SULLIED BY THAT KIND OF SHIT....IT SMELLS TOO MUCH LIKE BUSHIT-- AND MCCAIN KNOWS IT.

I'M SIGNING OFF BECAUSE, AS SOME OF YOU SAID, I'M JUST RANTING IN PANIC AND REPEATING MYSELF. BUT WHEN YOU ARE DYING AND YOU CAN'T REACH OUT AND PULL OUT OF THE WATER A NATION, A PARTY AND THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE SO FULL OF HOPE IN CHANGE, YOU CAN'T BE GLIB, YOU CAN'T BE MATTTER OF FACT AND--LEAST OF ALL-- YOU CAN'T BE *POLITICAL.*

FORGIVE ME, DEMS, I'LL JUST SHUT UP AND PRAY FOR GOD'S WILL ON SUPER TUESDAY.

dANIEL e. tEODORU

i'M TOO SHAKEN, SO FORGIVE ME IF i DON'T GO BACK OVER MY TEXT FOR TYPOS OR GRAMMAR CHECK.

GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK AND MAY GOD SPARE YOU THE HELPLESS FEAR OLD AGE AS AN AMERICAN BY CHOICE, NOT CHANCE, HAS BROUGHT ME...I'M JUST A REMNANT FROM THE UC bERKEY DAYS.

Good afternoon, ALL!

Posted by Kristen on February 1, 2008 at 01:01 PM

Kristen, it isn't just about the politician's political endorsement being an asset, it's the Rolodex. When someone endorses a candidate they also turn over their fund raising apparatus, e-mail lists, phone number lists and donation data.

After Kerry endorsed Obama I started getting a LOT of e-mail from the Obama campaign. Until then I never got a thing from anyone, other than notices that Edwards was going to be in my area a few times.

After seeing that conflict, OMG! it makes this war in Iraq look so small in comparison!

Posted by MichelleLaw on February 1, 2008 at 01:19 PM
===================================================

What war in Iraq are you talking about! It's an illegal invasion followed by an illegal occupation.
We have no business being there. There is no such thing as "victory" in this situation. There is no comparision to WWII.

*SEX!*.....NOW THAT I HAVE YOUR UNDIVIDED ATTENTION....I'm only trying to draw attention to the fact that Rome is burning so there's no time for politics as usual...FIRE...FIRE....FIRE

I do not post out of a desire to expose myself. Actually, I would much prefer to discuss anti-inflammatory actions of statins or the Vietnam WAr or the War on Terror or how to fit Israel peacefully and productively, in the words of Buber, "as a light onto the [Arab] nations." And, actually, I was totally A-POLITICAL in the time of Bush, losing myself in retrospection instead of prospection, wishing to write on the Cold War. In fact, on 9/8.01 I got a card from that wonderful Borders' Bookstore in the World Trade Center that the three Cold War history books I ordered had come in. Ironically, on that beautiful morning of 9/11, on crutches, on my way to the orthopedist, I stopped off at the World Trade Center to pick up my books....the rest is history.

I had supported Bush because I had been ashamed of what Clinton had done in the White House and in the Grand Jury-- STILL I FELT IMPEACHMENT WAS A VERY DANGEROUS THING TO DO. But, like most people, I blamed it on Clinton. YET, I CAME TO KNOW A LOT OF AMAZING THINGS BILL CLINTON DID AND I CAME TO BELIEVE HIM BRILLIANT....I also admired hillary's courage and loyalty under intense fire-- that's what makes women so much better men than most of us men. LATER, I HEARD BILL CLINTON TALK ON HEALTH CARE AND FOUND MYSELF WRITING HIM LETTERS OF APOLOGY FOR MISJUDGING HIM....As I became a Democrat disgusted with all the WASH DC BUSHIT, I came to realize that DEMOCRATIC POLITICS ARE AS CROOKED AS REPUBLICAN POLITICS, ***EXEPT*** THAT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS AT GRASSROOTS AND BASE FULL OF IDEALISTIC YOUNG PEOPLE-- LIKE MY KIDS-- WHO KEEP IT ABLE TO HAVE *HOPE* AND *CHANGE*-- UNLIKE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FULL OF YOUNG BUREAUCRATIC CANNIBALS SEEKING TO CLIMB THE POWER LADDER.

Obama fired up the kids and he did it more than anyother Democrat. Alas, Rove made us a sick nation and we need nursing back to health. TO ME HILLARY SEEMED LIKE THE IDEAL LOYAL, DETERMINED AND CARING DR. MOM TO NURSE AMERICA BACK TO HEALTH.

But look at how a stellar and historic performace by both Hillary and Obama at the Los Angeles debate-- one that finally made me proud again to be an earthling, an American and a Democrat-- had to be ruinned when it could have been flawless because Hillary had let a bunch of neocon scumbags push her into War on Terror BUSHIT for so many years. She sounded as gaga as did McCain when exposed by Romney at their last debate. HILLARY WAS VICTIM OF ALL THOSE NECONS THAT PUSHED HER HEAD FIRST INTO BUSHIT THE DAY AFTER KERRY LOST THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE IN 2004.

Did Hillary believe the Bushit in 2003? 2004? 2005? 2006?

That's Obama's point. If it becomes a DREAM TEAM of Hillary and Obama en route to a Golden Sixteen Years of Democratic Revolution, HISTORY will note that what the Republicans destroyed through greed, Clinton-->Obama resurected through idealism....through HOPE AND CHANGE.

But if Hillary debates McCain, he will remind her: Hillary, if the Iraq War is no pointless that we must abandon it now, how come you stood next to me, filmed on video, with your head bobbing in approval of everything I was saying in support of Bush policy on the streets of Baghdad the way you were videoed at Wal-Mart Board Meetings with your head bobbing up and down in approval of the union-busting plans the Chairman was spewing?

WHAT WILL SHE SAY THEN? WHAT WILL SHE SAY ABOUT BILL'S RACIST INSTIGATIONS?

I came to admire Bill. As an ex-President speaking about health care he motivated me to go back into health care and wark for free. So I must say, BILL IS A NATIONAL TREASURE.

But Bill grew up knowing only dirty politics and by now it is an imprinted instinct in him. So when he unleashed he was dirt from the git go...HE LOST HILLARY TED KENNEDY...How bad can you be when you lose Hillary Mr. Democrat?

WRITING WHAT I WROTE IN THESE BLOGS MAKES ME SICK. I GO INTO ARRYTHMIA AND HYPERTENSION AND AM SHAKING WHEN I FINISH. FOR ME THIS IS NOT A GAME. IT IS THE END OF A DREAM BECAUSE IF *BUSHIT* IS THE BEST WE CAN GET, THEN MY DEAD FATHER FORCING US INTO A TRECK ACROSS THE GLOBE TO BE PART OF THE "PARADISE OF FREEDOM," AMERICA IS A DUMB SHIT PIPE DREAM OF AN EAST EURO FOOL.

I NOW HAVE AMERICAN CHILDREN, AMERICAN GRAND CHILDREN....WHAT DO I TELL THEM WHEN THEY SEE ON TV BILL'S RACIST ANTICS? HOW DO I CONVINCE ALL MY PRO-OBAMA CHILDREN NOT TO GIVE UP AND FIGHT FOR HILLARY IF IT ALL MEANS CRAZY BILL'S ANTICS IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

INSTEAD OF VAPID ATTACKS ON ME, DEAL WITH THEASE QUESTIONS. FOR I DON'T COUNT. SOON I'LL BE DEAD....BUT SHOULD MY DREAM OF A GREAT AMERICA DIE WITH ME?

I MAY BE DIFFERENT FROM A LOT OF YOU. FOR ME THIS IS THE LAST OASIS. SO MAYBE THAT'S WHY I YELL FIRE, FIRE LOUNDER AND MORE DESPERATELY THAN MOST OF YOU....AS A REFULEE I NEVER HAD A CHILDHOOD-- LIKE MILLIONS OF OTHER VICTOMS OF WW II AND AFTER I HAD THE FIRE NIPPING AT MY HEELS AS WE TRECKED WEST. I KNOW THE SMELL OF BURNING FLASH. I'VE BEEN IN THREE WARS SO I KNOW WHAT DEATH IS LIKE, I KNOW THE SELL OR ROT, I KNOW THE PAIN AND SUFFERING, I KNOW WELL THE LINGERING HATE THAT VICTIMS NEVER FORGIVE AS THEIR SOULS ARE FOREVER TORMENTED.

I ONLY WANT BILL TO THINK ABOUT WHAT ***OUR COMMON GENERATION*** SUFFERED WHILE HE GOT LAYED IN LONDON, PRAGUE AND MOSCOW. I WANT HIM TO REALIZE THAT THIS ELECTION IS NOT ABOUT HIS EGO BUT ABOUT HIS WIFE NURSING THIS DYING NATION LANGUISHING THE THE ICU, POISONED BY BUSHIT.

DEAL WITH THAT, NOT WITH ME.

DEAL WITH YOUR FELLOW AMERICANS THAT BILL SO RECKLESSLY CARVED INTO POLAR CAMPS BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY POLITICS HE COULD THINK OF....HE IS BETTER THAN THAT...YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT....SO HILLARY AND OBAMA-- BOTH OF WHOM ARE LAYING THEIR SOULS IN THIS RACE-- SHOULD NOT IGNONIMOUSLY BE SULLIED BY THAT KIND OF SHIT....IT SMELLS TOO MUCH LIKE BUSHIT-- AND MCCAIN KNOWS IT.

I'M SIGNING OFF BECAUSE, AS SOME OF YOU SAID, I'M JUST RANTING IN PANIC AND REPEATING MYSELF. BUT WHEN YOU ARE DYING AND YOU CAN'T REACH OUT AND PULL OUT OF THE WATER A NATION, A PARTY AND THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE SO FULL OF HOPE IN CHANGE, YOU CAN'T BE GLIB, YOU CAN'T BE MATTTER OF FACT AND--LEAST OF ALL-- YOU CAN'T BE *POLITICAL.*

FORGIVE ME, DEMS, I'LL JUST SHUT UP AND PRAY FOR GOD'S WILL ON SUPER TUESDAY.

dANIEL e. tEODORU

i'M TOO SHAKEN, SO FORGIVE ME IF i DON'T GO BACK OVER MY TEXT FOR TYPOS OR GRAMMAR CHECK.

GOOD NIGHT AND GOOD LUCK AND MAY GOD SPARE YOU THE HELPLESS FEAR OLD AGE AS AN AMERICAN BY CHOICE, NOT CHANCE, HAS BROUGHT ME...I'M JUST A REMNANT FROM THE UC bERKEY DAYS.

Dem4Prez08 & marymac_memQhis
I don't want to open up a can of worms here, but......
#1
I can't get beyond the aspect of breaking the law: entering the country when you know it's an illegal act, using whatever means necessary to obtain social security status including (but not always, to be fair)identity theft. As an American citizen I don't break a law just "because I don't agree with it and assume it will be changed if enough people break it". I live my life with the reality that I will get punished if I conduct myself in this manner. I expect prospective US citizens to respect those same laws. If citizens of a country are in economic trouble, the place to address that is with their own government. The most obvious case is Mexico. If we can run around the world promoting democracy we can surely help with it in our own back yard (take note of that, Cardinal Mahoney and "my" Catholic Church.) Mexico is a very rich country in natural resources. It is also our 2nd biggest source of oil after Canada. The richest man in the world is a citizen of Mexico and I believe his wealth is from real estate, not oil. The wealth there is totally unbalanced and that is right where we are headed. Will we be running to Canada in a few years?
more to come....

McClatchy reports a string of bombings and attacks in Iraq on Thursday, and adds: "2 women, ages 50 and 55, cousins to the governor of Diyala, Raad al-Mulla were abducted by gunmen who had put up a false checkpoint between al-Abbara area and Baquba city last night. Their fate remains unknown."

I don't think security is very good there.

McClatchy reports on US soldiers' security challenge in Mosul. He adds:

' Terrorists aren't Mosul's only problem. The city's Sunni and Shiite Muslim Arabs detest each other, and the Arabs distrust the city's Kurdish, Christian and Turkmen minorities. Although 60 percent of Mosul's population of 1.8 million is Sunni, three-quarters of the provincial government is Kurdish, and the Arabs suspect the Kurds of wanting to take over the city.

"We live in chaos," said Sheik Fawwaz al Jarba, a former member of the Shiite alliance in Iraq's central government. He spoke from Baghdad because Sunni insurgents blew up his house in Mosul.'

Posted by oregon*dem on February 1, 2008 at 01:17 PM

Just as the second amendment should be read in its entirety, so should Bob's sentence:

It is nice to know that tax dollars are going to be spent in making our children more efficient killers.

I can tell you that I have more guns than I do bibles in my house (locked up, of course...the guns) but I would much rather have tax dollars go to helping the truly needy or enabling our soldiers to adequately defend themselves, than teaching a child to point a gun. IMO, this, AND RELIGION, is better left to the parents.

The John McCain that opposed the Bush tax cuts twice.

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 12:59 PM
==================================================

You mean the John McCain who now says he wants to make the Bush tax cuts permanent?

McCain is a loser. He's a nuts.

Just stopping by....

So the Chinese got our jobs, state-of-the-art factories, and a brand new infrastructure (did you see the The Cube, the Olympic Aquatic Center?).

We got underemployment, a crumbling infrastructure, and now apparently inflation (on top of the stagnation). There's not going to be any more cheap prices for those unsafe products.

China’s Inflation Hits American Price Tags

Shoes from China, like those made at Diamond Standard Footwear in Dongguan, above, could cost 10 percent more this year. (Jason Lee/Reuters)

By DAVID BARBOZA
Published: February 1, 2008

SHANGHAI — China’s latest export is inflation. After falling for years, prices of Chinese goods sold in the United States have risen for the last eight months.

Soaring energy and raw material costs, a falling dollar and new business rules here are forcing Chinese factories to increase the prices of their exports, according to analysts and Western companies doing business here.

The rise was a modest 2.4 percent over the last year. But even that small amount, combined with higher energy and food costs that also reflect China’s growing demands on global resources, contributed to a rise in inflation in the United States. Inflation in the United States was 4.1 percent in 2007, up from 2.5 percent in 2006.

Because of new cost pressures here, American consumers could see prices increase by as much as 10 percent this year on specific products — including toys, clothing, footwear and other consumer goods — just as the United States faces a possible recession.

In the longer term, higher costs in China could spell the end of an era of ultra-cheap goods, as well as the beginning of China’s rise from the lowest rungs of global manufacturing...

BAGHDAD — Remote-controlled explosives strapped to two mentally retarded women detonated in a coordinated attack on Baghdad pet bazaars Friday, Iraqi officials said, killing at least 73 people in the deadliest day since the U.S. sent 30,000 extra troops to the capital last spring.

The chief Iraqi military spokesman in Baghdad, Brig. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi, claimed the female bombers had Down syndrome and that the explosives were detonated by remote control, indicating they may not having been willing attackers in what could be a new method by suspected Sunni insurgents to subvert stepped up security measures.

U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker said the bombings showed that a resilient al-Qaida has "found a different, deadly way" to try to destabilize Iraq.

"There is nothing they won't do if they think it will work in creating carnage and the political fallout that comes from that," he told The Associated Press in an interview at the State Department.

The first attack Friday occurred at about 10:20 a.m. in the central al-Ghazl market. The weekly bazaar has been bombed several times since the war started but recently had re-emerged as a popular place to shop and stroll as Baghdad security improved and a Friday ban on driving was lifted.

Four police and hospital officials said at least 46 people were killed and more than 100 wounded. Firefighters scooped up debris scattered among pools of blood, clothing and pigeon carcasses.

About 20 minutes later, a second female suicide bomber struck a bird market in a predominantly Shiite area in southeastern Baghdad. That blast killed as many as 27 people and wounded 67, according to police and hospital officials.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/02/01/female-bombers-strike-mar_n_84427.html\

=================================================

The surge is crap. Petraeus is every bit the liar that MoveOn painted him to be. There is no progress in Iraq. Even more so, we now know the truth that the conservatives such as Bush, McCain and Romney want to stay there permanently!

What on earth makes anyone think that McCain was any kind of Hero? For chripes sake, he joined the military to do a job, and he did a job. That is all! And not very well, or he would not have gotten picked off as a POW! He got offered early release by the VietCon for some strange reason, which is highly suspect in itself.

Why do you think there is a new group formed of VietNam Vets who have come out against McCain, with their reasons why? Not because they thought he was any hero !

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/

I personally do not hunt, I can't even smash a spider but I do believe there there is benefit of managed hunting. In Washington state because we use so much of our Mountains for recreational purposes most of the natural predators have been driven out of the area. (There was a push to re introduce brown bears to the North Cascades) so the deer and elk herds do get awfully large, which increases the risk of illness and starvation, so allowing managed hunting helps to keep these herds healthy.

Also I think it a bit arrogant to assume that because you can buy meat in the grocery store people should not need to hunt to put food on the table, especially when you consider the number of people still going hungry in this country.

My Brother in law is an avid hunter and his daughters want to be able to go with him, so the choice is to make sure they are taught properly how to handle a rifle as well as all the safety requirements ahead of time or give them the 'on the job' training.

To assume that parents putting their children into these classes are some how less responsible is quite a jump. I do agree that these programs should not be funded by the Federal Government.

Posted by MichelleLaw on February 1, 2008 at 01:19 PM

Iraq is small in comparison. That's what burns me most about the mismanagement of this ill-conceived invasion. Sixty-five years ago, we were able to defeat three major global powers in a little less than four years (7DEC41 - 1SEP45). We've been in Iraq for five years and Afghanistan for six years and our Army can't get rid of a bunch of third world thugs?

Former SECDEF Rumsfeld almost ruined DoD. SECDEF Gates, while doing a realtively good job, IMHO, has a long way to go to repair the Rumsfeld damage.

The blog Inside Cable News reported Thursday that Karl Rove will be joining Fox News as a contributor. The report didn't include any further details as of yet, but suggested he would be used for the channel's Super Tuesday coverage.

ICN hears that Karl Rove will join Fox News Channel as a contributor and will likely be used throughout Super Tuesday coverage...
==================================================

Perfect place for another lying sack of crap conservative.

Right wing leader admits: We put making money for ourselves over the principles of our supporters
by Joe Sudbay (DC) · 2/01/2008 12:05:00 PM ET ·

Thanks to David Keene, head of the American Conservative Union, for explaining the mindset of the hard core conservatives. Principles don't matter. Their money does. No wonder the GOP base is disillusioned. They get sold out, literally, by their leaders:

Meanwhile, conservatives are growing increasingly “resigned” to the idea of a McCain nomination, said David Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union, adding that among Washington activists, many of whom, like him, double as lobbyists, self-interest may also be a factor.

“There are people who don’t like the idea of a being off a campaign or being on the bad list if the guy gets into the White House,” Mr. Keene said. “This is a town in which 90 percent of the people balance their access and income on the one hand versus their principles on the other.”

Again, no wonder the GOP base is so depressed.
===============================================

Oh well ... geez whiz ... what a shock!

The problem isn't Bush.
The problem isn't Cheney.
The problem isn't McCain.
The problem isn't Romney.
The problem is with the GOP is the conservative movement.

They have betrayed the people of this nation. That makes all GOP politicians unacceptable. Come on moderate Republicans - admit it, you have been lied to. Drop the GOP and vote Democratic.

For those Hillary-haters and Obama-haters, for the convenience of those on dial-up and just so that the rest of us can keep our sanity, when you are posting one of your rants could you please just limit it to:

"Hillary bad/Obama good"

or

"Hillary good/Obama bad"

dependent on your staunch position, of course...that way it will be easier for the rest of us to zip past your posts and get on with more important aspects of this race to the WH. And, if you are feeling especially vitriolic, you can include the word "very" as necessary and appropriate.

K?

bbl.

TO ALL THOSE OBAMA SUPPORTERS: You will need as of this point in time stop the slime coming out of your mouths about Hillary Clinton.

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 11:54 AM

Obama supporters are discussing real issues, sometimes very emotionally. This is the reaction that people go through when they first open their eyes to what Hillary and Bill are doing. I went through surprise at the Iran vote, annoyed at her feminist calls, her campaign tactics in Iowa were silly, but the smears, lies, and voter suppression have infuriated me. I get this emotion, but Hillary supporters will not. People's emotions are going to come out.

While you may not identify with it, please try to be patient with it.

Since I have joined and tried to discuss Obama/Hillary, people have called Obama supporters trolls, idiots, Repugs, ignored important questions, refused to engage, and even threatened.

a troll, like many around here, is someone who throws out rumor, speculation, half truths under the guise of being one of us. (hiding under the bridge as trolls do and yelling to the people on the bridge) no one cares who you support or don't. if you post a FACT, show a place where others can verify this fact, and not from a place where the "intel" was picked through like Fox noise. there are many supporters of all candidates here, even some who have dropped out.

Posted by jimmyc451 on February 1, 2008 at 10:56 AM

There is a sense of ownership here ("one of us?") that is not appropriate for the DNC front page. It is THIS attitude that will offend readers of these posts the most, not posts that clearly over the top.

Stories are going to come out. It is the campaign. They will be discussed here, and here is an appropriate place to discuss them.

If you find something someone said wrong, dispute it patiently please, back up your point of view with data.

Please stop yelling at outside posters. It is damaging to the Democrats.

Why do you think there is a new group formed of VietNam Vets who have come out against McCain, with their reasons why? Not because they thought he was any hero !
================================================

Hi PamB,

I sick of that bull as well. The GOP conservative aholes stuck it to Kerry every step of the way. I don't see why McCain is such a hero. I say thank you to both of them for their service and let's move on to what's relevant.

McCain is unacceptable. He's a warmonger. He's also a libertarian on economics just like that ahole Reagan, Bush Sr. and his Chimpy son.

The hell with the GOP and conservatism.

For those Hillary-haters and Obama-haters, for the convenience of those on dial-up and just so that the rest of us can keep our sanity, when you are posting one of your rants could you please just limit it to:

"Hillary bad/Obama good"

or

"Hillary good/Obama bad"
=================================================

LOL. These candidate posts are a bit too much. Both are good! Both will make infinitely better Presidents than any lying back-stabbing GOP candidate.

Posted by MichelleLaw on February 1, 2008 at 01:28 PM

I wouldn't go as far to say as hunting should be made illegal. But to use that as an arguement to advocate teaching firearms in a public school using taxpayer dollars seemed to me a bit of a stretch much like the point you made with the Dahmer reference.

You're also correct to point out that none the school shooters, at least that I am aware of, ever participated in a gun safety class. However, their exposure to guns at an early age surely contributed to their psychotic behavior, to some degree, in as much as they knew the most efficient tool to accomplish their twisted goals was a firearm.

Bob, Thank you for clariying.

Steve,"Believe me when I tell you, there are people out there that can't see a way to make $35,000 this year, let alone $85,000 $200,000."

I appreciate your point. I actually was not referring to my ability to pay more, even though I am on the low end you speak of. My concern is some of these tiny Mom & Pop businesses, are struggling to survive. I really don't want to see more people without work and I believe that a large percentage of people are employeed by these types of businesses. We have the responsibility to try to maintain our businesses and continue to have work for our employees that depend on us, and hopefully grow, too.
*********************************

Have you heard this today,
Exxon Mobil Posts Record Profits

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5g2bWhAvZxrryiRX8QnFU57pz3ctAD8UHLOKO0

Posted by Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on February 1, 2008 at 01:21 PM

Hi DBDB, I realize that there are definite benefits for the candidate being endorsed. I was asking if people really jump ship because their favorite such a such endorsed the other candidate?

I just can't imagine thinking 'oh look Patty Murray endorsed Hillary the other day and I just think the WORLD of Murray so that MUST mean Hillary gets my vote now.'

And guessing from Connie's posts about Kennedy she probably isn't in his Rolodex so she should be safe from getting phone calls from the Obama camp. ;)

Iraq is small in comparison. That's what burns me most about the mismanagement of this ill-conceived invasion.
==================================================

Bob,

It isn't mismanagement. The invasion was just wrong and now we are bogged down in an endless occupation of a country that despises Americans. There is no way to make that good by managing it better. That's the same mistake we keep falling into thinking that some General could "manage it" better. It's time to leave Iraq not stay there permanently as these GOP fascists want to do.

OK MODERATORS: you are showing your preference, you let Danielet spew her hatred of bill and hillary.
You have deleted by true statement about Ted Kennedy. Now is that anyway to be impartial. You are only making sure that I believe you guys are the corupt ones forcing your candidate down the throats of us.

Have you heard this today,
Exxon Mobil Posts Record Profits
==================================================

Seen it! Just consider that the wretched GOP fascists gave them big tax exemptions. Why?
The GOP is now a fascist party. There are no moderates left.

We got underemployment, a crumbling infrastructure, and now apparently inflation (on top of the stagnation). There's not going to be any more cheap prices for those unsafe products.
===================================================

Sandy, that was predicted many years ago. The GOP corporate fascists don't care. They are all about making money for the corporations. They couldn't care less about the people.

Bush administration retaliating against more journalists
by John Aravosis (DC) · 2/01/2008 10:56:00 AM ET · Link
Discuss this post here: Comments (56) · reddit · FARK ·· Digg It!

Feels like Kabul, or Moscow. That beacon of democracy thing kind of worked in reverse. Oh, and how's Scooter doing? Oh that's right, leaks are okay when THEY do it. Just like every other law in America, it's okay when the Republicans break them because they know what's best. Which takes us back to Kabul and Moscow...
==============================================

Nice huh? Now you tell me that this isn't fascism? These relentless attack on the constitution and civil liberties. Transferring wealth to the top 1%. Corporatism. Endless militarism. That's fascism.

Why do the hell do these GOP shills keep throwing the word freedom around? There is no freedom in their philosophy of goverance except for the elites and the super wealthy. The GOP can go to hell.

NO rjsns, McCain knows nothing about economics and that why i believe hillary is the best candidate.She will show him to look stupid!!
As far as the war vote, I think it will fly better in the general against because the puks will definitely screw any candidate that is cowardly towards war and defense. So, Hillary the hawk is better equipped to go against McCain, because of how it was ran, no exit strategy, no armoured vehicles, not taking care of the vets upon returning. they will just turn it around on obama, and we as yet do not know what GW will pull with the war just before the general to make us look bad. So, i'll go the Hillary the Hawk, before Obama the yellow-bellied liberal that McCain will paint him!!

He can eat a meal without drooling

Michigan Red Dog Dave !

Now are you sure about this? I think the fact they keep him private while he eats may indicate a bit of saliva runs down his lips ! ;0

You know, I was worried about McCain, until after he won the New hampshire Primary, and All of the Republicans on the CNN panel were laughing there heads off at him when he staggered out, and READ his speech. They said it was not his finest moment. The other night after the Republican debate, I saw them all say that debate showed a surley, nasty McCain and that was not his finest moment either.

When even members of your own party think you are an ass hole, well, I think you don't have a shot in hell!

But I DO LMAO when I hear McCain talking about Global Warming and how he will make sure we do something about it ! That must be like chalk on a blackboard to the Republicans!

How those Republicans are going to be able to make themselves go to the polls and check off McCain's name next November will be something to see! I think they will have to pass out Vomit bags to all the Republicans going in.

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 01:07 PM

Connfloyd is in here crying, saying we should all feel bad for her and Hillary because people are spreading lies, and then connfloyd has the nerve to say this:

"As far as the Iran vote, he decided not to show up for the vote, because it was politically worrisome, so what did he do, just dont show up, just like the 132 presents he voted in the state senate."

We all know what power-hungry Harry Reid (and Clinton supporter) did to Obama the day before and day of the Iran vote.

We also know that voting "present" is used very frequently in the Illinois senate and using 3% of the time (Obama had over 4,000 votes) is NOT considered frequent.

Connfloyd, you are unethical and a liar and our party does not need that. Please go for McCain, they could use some more liars over there.

West Virginia is considering a bill to teach schoolchildren how to handle a gun and hunt safely its proponent hopes will increase state revenues from hunting licenses, a state lawmaker said Thursday.
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama_for_POTUS_2008 on February 1, 2008 at 12:37 PM

This sounds similar to a program in at least one county in the UP of Michigan. The particulars as I understand them:
The program was financed and put on by the local chapter of the NRA. I beleive it was after school hours and offered to those who were interested ie not mandatory.
When my son was in Tiger Cubs(Scouts) we attempted something similar.
I would rather my son was familiar with handling a firearm than totally ignorant. There's something to be said about learning under supervision vs finding out the REAL damage of shooting a living being by experimentation.

I think they will have to pass out Vomit bags to all the Republicans going in.

Posted by PamB on February 1, 2008 at 01:58 PM
=================================================

The only way to vote GOP!

MNDEM: you are be taken by a speech, totally uninformed and frankly you are naive.
You should research the candidates and not listen to the rhetoric from kennedy and the neocon networks!!!
I am going to LMAO, when the dnc shoved Obama down you all's throat and you loose because of REZKO and the liberal votes on the war.LOL!!!

I have seen several articles that say the Republicans DO NOT want to have to run against Obama mainly because any attacks will come off as Racist, and turn off the voters!

They are praying Hillary gets the nod, because they have all their ammunition pulled out from the 8 years of bill's era and are ready to start. anybody got any questions about what they have planned for Hillary, merely google anti Hillary and you get about 20 blogs and articles all set up with every piece of filth, Lies , smears they can drum up. They are determined that Bill Clinton will not spend another night in the White House, and they will do whatever they need to pull their base together to prevent it. Watch !

bbl,

Why feudal Japan method will work well in Iraq security measure. Granted after everything settles down.. there will be free travel again...

1) lots of clans battling all over japan..
similar to Iraq and its two major clans

so to stop this infighting... travel from one county to the next one was tightly controlled..

and that stop the feudal clan wars and had a successful peace time until the foreign devils showed up.. LOL..

same strategy in Iraq will work too... do you want peace? or perpectual peace? you have to sacrafice freedom to have peace until all freedom can be given back...

Posted by oregon*dem on February 1, 2008 at 01:39 PM

Ah, the truth comes out. I thought so.

Commie punk? Really? Funny, I remember taking orders from your revered President Reagan and SECDEF Weinberger when we defeated the Soviet Union by firing very few shots. I was there with nothing more than a .45 and a couple of satellite dishes. Where were you? Hunting Bambi and reliving the movie Deliverance in your own backyard, I suppose?

As far as [prying your gun from you cold dead fingers] goes, I can do that as well. I had formal training from the greatest source available, the United States Army. Let the professionals handle the firearms. You and your buddies need to do what you do best, stick to the Budweiser side of the equation. That's pretty much all a conservative is good for. Well that and cannon fodder...

John McCain's trophy bride
by John Aravosis (DC) · 2/01/2008 10:01:00 AM ET · Link
Discuss this post here: Comments (127) · reddit · FARK ·· Digg It!

He's running as a conservative in a party that touts "the sanctity of marriage" as one of their top issues. Therefore his having divorced his first wife because she was involved in a bad accident, and his having married his second wife, 17 years his junior, shortly thereafter, is relevant. John McCain likes to talk about he was a POW. He doesn't like to talk as much about how he ditched his wife a few years after returning home. If we're being asked to consider 8 more years of these people, and their morality, then it's time we inquired about their morality. McCain would like us to remember the hero part, then forget the trophy bride part, even though they both happened around the same time. You get one, you get the other. And he was 42 years old at the time, so let's stop excusing Republicans for their "youthful indiscretions" that happened about the time of menopause. The Bible doesn't have a statute of limitations. If we have to live by it, they have to live by it.

From the NYT eight years ago:

Mr. McCain has acknowledged running around with women and accepted responsibility for the breakup of the marriage, without going into details. But his supporters and his biographer, Robert Timberg, all suggest that the marriage had already effectively ended and that the couple had separated by the time he met Cindy, his present wife.

That might be the most soothing way of explaining a politician's divorce from a disabled wife and his remarriage to a wealthy heiress, but it does not jibe with accounts of family members and friends.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/02/john-mccains-trophy-bride.html
================================================

McKook!

New thread!

Jobs report much worse than usual
by Chris in Paris · 2/01/2008 08:59:00 AM ET · Link
Discuss this post here: Comments (53) · reddit · FARK ·· Digg It!

Forecasts prior to the announcement were for a soft 70,000+ new jobs though the results were much, much worse. The US economy is going in reverse thanks to years of Republican policies. The economic boom that most never experienced (outside of the board rooms) is crashing down. The unlucky Americans who never bounced back from the last Bush recession are sinking even lower. The new report says 17,000 jobs were cut. Meanwhile, oil prices are booming and wages are softening. This all translates into stagflation.

Job losses were widespread. Manufacturers, construction firms and a variety of professional and business services eliminated jobs in January — reflecting the toll of the housing and credit debacles. The government cut jobs, too. All those cuts swamped job gains in education, health care, retailing and elsewhere.

Wage growth also slowed, another indication that employers are tightening their belts amid the economic slowdown.
==============================================

Thank you for another recession Herr Chimpenfuhrer and fascist GOP party.

Believe me when I tell you, there are people out there that can't see a way to make $35,000 this year, let alone $85,000 $200,000. They'll be losing a significantly higher percentage of income in FICA this year, then those at $85 - $200,000 level.

Steve
Posted by Growingold on February 1, 2008 at 01:01 PM
Right on, Sir!
My husband and I had a total income of $35,802.04 last year.

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 01:16 PM

Re: Obama snub.

Here is a page that shows, with photos, that Obama was talking with McKaskill while Ted was shaking hands with Hillary.

The picture sent out to the press to validate the snub was not showing the whole story.

Believe me when I tell you, there are people out there that can't see a way to make $35,000 this year, let alone $85,000 $200,000. They'll be losing a significantly higher percentage of income in FICA this year, then those at $85 - $200,000 level.

Steve
Posted by Growingold on February 1, 2008 at 01:01 PM
Right on, Sir!
My husband and I had a total income of $35,802.04 last year.

Posted by hoipolloi on February 1, 2008 at 02:02 PM

If the local chapter of the NRA or the BSA want to conduct firearm training seminars then that is their business as they are private clubs and, to the best of my knowledge, not federally subsidized though witht he Bush Administration, an accounting audit would be in order. SCOTUS ruled on that a few years ago. My beef is with taxpayer funded activites.

Knowing what a firearm is capable of is a basic understanding most children have by the time they go into the first grade. It's rudimentary but, I would wager that practically every first grader knows that shooting guns at people will potentially kill said people. There are better expenditures of our tax dollars, IMHO.

LOOK INTREPID, Obama doesnt even talk about issues, all he has is a touchy, feely, speech, BOO!!!
His campaign is running ads that are as nasty as I have ever seen and I am 60 years old.
What a gentleman last night at the debate, but 4 days earlier, he couldn't even look hillary in the eye.

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 01:07 PM

You took the words right out of my head, conn.

I hear you, hoipolloi, mine was very near that. Of course that is about the average earnings where we live.

I must confess, I just now fully realized what Bob and Steve were saying. Please forgive my tunnel vision. What you are proposing would not have any impact on my employees or my family and myself, unfortunately. None of us make that much.

posted by BobVADemHawk on 1 Feb 08 at 12:33P
And you are smoking what?
Social Security was started in the 1930s by the Rooevelt administration to help the older people, and get the OFF the job market so younger people could have jobs, and also to help take the burden of caring for disabled elders by families, and to help those who were dying of neglect on County Farms.
County Farms were also known as Poor Farms or Poor Houses, and were a place to warehouse indigent people who could no longer care for themselves at county expense.
Those "tax sucking citizens" won't be making any kind of munificent riches from Social security. Social Security(SS) is figured on a AVERAGE of lifetime earnings, and as an SS recipient, in addition to my military retirement I can tell you truthfully, that I don't know how people can live on just their SS earnings. Yes, I said EARNINGS! These people put this money in over their working lifetime, and they deserve it back.
Don't fall for the Republican BS about how the SS in in trouble because to these people. Boomers were the more prosperous, and the largest group to contribute to SS, and one of the reasons that they don't want to admit to for SS being in any kind of trouble is the borrow and don't pay back that Congress has done over the years.
Maybe our elderly should demand an accounting of SS mis handling similar to what the Native Americans are demanding be done with their moneys that went to the Bureau of Indian Affairs for mining and oil incomes since the 1890s.

I just watched the news on MSN. The Kaz uranium deal went down before Bill Clinton and friend visited, they had no connection to that deal.

Posted by MarieDNC on February 1, 2008 at 10:43 AM

I think MSN is partially right, the uranium deal was under discussion prior to the meeting. But, the NYTimes article says the approval only happened after the meeting.

Here's the quote:

Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy. Mr. Clinton’s public declaration undercut both American foreign policy and sharp criticism of Kazakhstan’s poor human rights record by, among others, Mr. Clinton’s wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York.

Within two days, corporate records show that Mr. Giustra also came up a winner when his company signed preliminary agreements giving it the right to buy into three uranium projects controlled by Kazakhstan’s state-owned uranium agency, Kazatomprom.

I've posted strong accusations here that are backed up by the NYTimes article.

I'm not happy about what the article says, it has me very stressed.

If anyone of the Hillary supporters who have been following her for a long time can explain this in a positive light, I would be most grateful.

For Obama on the issues whicj he most certainly does talk about:

http://www.barackobama.com/index.php

You'll find as much details as HRC provides on her web site.

Good afternoon, all.

Teaching gun safety classes to kids at an early age encourages the responsible use of guns....

Posted by MichelleLaw on February 1, 2008 at 01:28 PM

Michelle,

I really don't see any point in putting guns into the hands of kids who are too young to realize what death is.

It's like saying let's teach gun safety to kids in gangs so they wouldn't go around killing so many people in drive-by shootings? Younger teens have not developed a sense of proportion. They are not capable of understanding the ramifications of what you are trying to teach them.

If we won't let kids drive till they are 16 or drink till they are 21, why are we encouraging them to use weapons?

Safety comes from using common sense, IMHO.

Thank you all who told me what time NYC polls open and close Tuesday.

Posted by TheIntrepidTroll on February 1, 2008 at 02:23 PM

Kazakhstan?

Which former Soviet republic is this one?

Is it the one where that stupid British comedian Borat says he comes from?

Or is it the one where the leader is this really ruthless dictator plump from the lucrative pipeline deal that Rummy engineered and which Hastert rammed through the Republican-controlled Congress...and which Putin has threatened to bomb?

If the second, why was Bill Clinton involved at all?

I can see him involved with Borat.

Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama_for_POTUS_2008 on February 1, 2008 at 02:18 PM

I agree. I'm just offering a suggestion for acheiveing the goal in a more acceptible way, you know- compromise.
I'm not sure that young kids truly know the dangers of mishandling a firearm. I'm sure they know what they've been TOLD but that's not the same as hands on experience. For instance, when I envision myself firing a gun, I also feel the physical "kickback" which makes it more real to me.

LOOK INTREPID

You really need to get a hand on your temper. You’re not exhibiting any sense of self control. Perhaps we can call in Dr. Phil for an intervention? It did wonders for Britney.

Seriously, snap out of it and start acting like a civil human being. We've been subjected to this churlish behavior for weeks now. I want it to stop.

Make you point without shouting at anyone who doesn't agree with you.

There are innocent Republican trolls who come in here. I don't want them subjected to something that might traumatize them for life.

Where are you people coming up with all these new names? Are you screen writers on strike with too much time on your hands? BTW, I love the way you make up new identities just so you can argue with your alter egos.

Geeze. It's been like circus around here lately.

later.

Posted by MichiganRedDogDave on February 1, 2008 at 02:56 PM

Don't tell The Others.

Posted by connfloyd on February 1, 2008 at 02:18 PM

I don't have a tv, so I'll pass on that one. I suspect Hillary isn't clean there either.

Obama does talk about issues, he has passed significant legislation, and he has well developed policies.

Over the summer he spent a lot of time talking to interest groups and telling them about the changes that he wanted to make. As an example, when he talked with automakers (NYTimes article), he told them he wanted to work on issues of fuel efficiency. This will help reduce our need for oil, which could lower the cost (if someone else doesn't snap it up), and help move us to energy independence.

He has passed legislation on this as well.

Renewable Fuels: Obama has worked on numerous efforts in the Senate to increase access to and use of renewable fuels. Obama passed legislation with Senator Jim Talent (R-MO) to give gas stations a tax credit for installing E85 ethanol refueling pumps. The tax credit covers 30 percent of the costs of switching one or more traditional petroleum pumps to E85, which is an 85 percent ethanol/15 percent gasoline blend. Obama also sponsored an amendment that became law providing $40 million for commercialization of a combined flexible fuel vehicle/hybrid car within five years.

CAFE: Obama introduced a bold new plan that brought Republicans and Democrats, CAFE supporters and long-time opponents together in support of legislation that will gradually increase fuel economy standards and offer what the New York Times editorial page called "real as opposed to hypothetical results."

Barack Obama's web page

Finally, I can't find a pointer to this, it was in the news, but it just isn't coming up on my searches. It happens sometimes, I'm not sure why.

Finally, in a question and answer period, someone asked Obama, roughly, "If you, as President, you could only solve on problem, what would it be?".

Obama replied that it would be energy independence with alternative energy. If we could solve that,

1) We could have a less expensive fuel and everyone would save money.

2) We would be less dependent on the Middle East, and we wouldn't be sending our money to people who hate us.

3) We can first invest in research and development, which will help the economy (much the way the President Clinton invested in the high tech). This will then generate new products for the US.

4) This would free up money that we can put to other things

4) It would be a step toward addressing global warming.

Posted by BillSellsUsOut on February 1, 2008 at 02:52 PM

Now...don't go being a closet sexist!

You really need to get a hand on your temper. You’re not exhibiting any sense of self control.

Make you point without shouting at anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Posted by SandyH on February 1, 2008 at 02:52 PM

My posts are not written with yelling in my head. Look back at my posts. I compliment people on well written points, even if I disagree with the discussion. I express sympathy for people in Florida, and for Edwards supports.

I have no control however on how people read my posts. Given the reaction that some people have to anyone who raises any question here that questions Hillary, the problem is not with me.

When Republican's come here, it will not be Hillary that they want to learn about. It will not be my posts that they find offensive, but the brutal way people are treated when they express a different opinion.

It doesn't make the DNC look good, and it doesn't do your candidate any good either.

I'm not going away. Deal with it. Address my points, show me where I'm wrong.

Teaching kids how to handle guns safely and responsibly is a lot better than turning them loose in a video arcade or on a computer to play first-person shooter games which teach them to kill anything that moves, without any moral judgments involved.
Reminds me of the time an NPR reporter was interviewing an anti-gun mom at a truck stop. She was with a group going up to DC to protest the 2d Amendment. She hands the kids a bunch of quarters to go amuse themselves in the video arcade, UNsupervised, to play any games they wanted. As far as I am concerned she was being extremely hypocritical.
I refused to let my kids have toy guns or BB guns when they were kids, and kept an eye on what video and computer games they had.
We had some pretty frank discussions about what was right and wrong, and also WHY I disapproved of toy guns and BB guns, and why some video games were bad.
They didn't get to go out alone with a firearm until I felt that they had enough maturity and common sense to do so.
When my son was in high school, he and his buddies would go out hunting jackrabbits(it was year around open season on jackrabits) on BLM land. It kept them out of trouble, and they sold the rabbits to a taxidermist, who would feed the meat to his dogs, and mount the skins with antlers and sell them to tourists as "jackalopes".
It kept the kids in pocket money. They never had any bad incidents, and they all grew up to be responsible citizens.
It's NOT gun control that's needed, it's PARENTAL control!

Posted by TheIntrepidTroll on February 1, 2008 at 03:02 PM
Hybrid cars are only a transition vehicle, electric are the end goal so some of this argument MAY be moot.

BTW: "Obama introduced a bold new plan"
"Obama plans to reintroduce a bill that......"
Which is it..."bold new" or "reintroduce"?

I had formal training from the greatest source available, the United States Army.

Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama_for_POTUS_2008 on February 1, 2008 at 02:07 PM

You know deep in your heart that the United States Army is the SECOND greatest source available for firearms training.

Ask any U.S.M.C. vet.

*

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NEW OPEN THREAD

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Is there really a new thread or am I once again the victim of my own lack of computer skills?

For too long we have been electing officials based on their personal lives and charisma instead of their qualification and ideas.

Obama has been touting change; I would like him to define these changes.

Gov. Charlie Crist was also a winner in Florida's primary

By Anthony Man | Political Writer
Sun-Sentinel
January 31, 2008

The biggest triumph in this week's voting may go to someone whose name wasn't even on the ballot.

"The headline should read that Governor [Charlie] Crist was the big winner in Florida," said Ed Pozzuoli, the southeast Florida chairman for Rudy Giuliani — who was vanquished by the Crist-endorsed John McCain..... "This is a big, big night for Charlie Crist and a night that might put him on the ballot as vice president," -David Gergen

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/elections/sfl-flbcrist0131sbjan31,0,1797412.story

DEMS!!!!!

This is the shit we have to contend with in Florida. Most of us here in the state, knew what was coming. In the end, the squabble between our state and national leadership, deserves a closer look. Here are the results of their actions. Amendment 1 passed, by 4%. Charlie Pockets gains national recognition and Florida, which never should have been in play, is now in play.

The upside? (you know me, I love the upside)

In a race that promised Democratic Floridians a "beauty contest". Just over 2,000,000 republicans came to the polls, while 1,600,000 Democrats voted. (Independants were on the sideline for this one. Republicans are so worried that they won't carry Florida, they'll turn to this "Norman Newguy" aka Charlie "Pockets" Crist as a possible VP Candidate. (Like the insurance companies really need another puppet in Washington)

We need to mend our fences. To much is at stake.

Steve

There 18 million people in Florida. Those are pretty sad turnout numbers (total) for a population that big.

Amendment 1's passing in Florida was bad for Floridians. I voted "no" on it and I'll tell you why. It doesn't solve our property tax problem; the averaage homeowner will only see a $220 reduction in taxes the first year (2nd home owners, businesses, and renters will pay more as it does not apply to them); assessed values will be increased thereafter to make up for the shortfall; and our Governor will now forget all about property taxes and say he "fixed the problem." when the Florida property tax system is wholly unfair to all homeowners and based SOLELY on the purchase price of your home. Most other states have some kind of formula for calculating tax whereby they take into consideration the sq footage, how much living space, acreage, use of land....you know REAL life tax issues. In Florida, you can live in a mansion and pay less tax than someone living in a cottage as long as you've been in that mansion for many years (and the cottage turns over every few years as a starter home). This system punishes first time home buyers and in essence is yet one of Florida's crafty ways of persuading people to stay put and keep paying for all that tourism. Up until Amendment 1's passing, the tax savings on your home from the Save Our Homes exemption was not portable to a new home if you moved so most people couldn't afford to move. I'm not sure how this new portability works under the amendment now that you can "take it with you" as it were but I'm willing to bet, it won't really be a savings or wholly portable....and the extra $220 won't cover it either. It would ahve been better to allow the Citizens Coalition that was already working on the tax issue to continue their mission and come up with a fair and equitable tax system that is NOT based soly on purchase price. Florida should take a look at New Hampshire's AugenBick formula for calculating property tax. It taxes you on what you actually OWN and not when you purchased and at what price.

connfloyd: I make roughly 80K a year (in a good year) and I can't afford health insurance (mainly because of spouse's pre-existings but also have very little left after paying the general bills). Anything I do have left over goes into an MSA (medical savings account) that we use for medical related expenses....and sometimes we wipe that out and have to start over like when I had cataract surgery.

BEWARE !!!!

IF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE NOT GIVEN DRIVER'S LICENCES THEY WILL BE FORCED TO BREAK THE LAW!

SINCE IT IS A CRIME TO BREAK THE LAW, IF CAUGHT YOU ARE EXEMPT FROM A PATH TO CITIZENSHIP!

THIS WILL FOREVER BAN YOU FROM BEING A U.S. CITIZEN! THIS IS THE BEST WAY TO DEPORT YOU!

The Clintons are big-time corporate dems. Hillary earned about 100,000k serving as a non functional on the board of wall mart...she says she was there to promote wage increases and womens rights. Do a fact check on that! She did nothing!

Why does'nt anyone call on her on the following when she touts about "the fabulous Clinton years" The Clinton's have been huge supporters of the Bush's and the Neocon's view of the NEW WORLD ORDER. Clinton passed NAFTA. Nafta has proven to be probably the single most contributing factor of job losses in America, let alone how it has almost wiped out Mexican farmers! Ask yourself why Rupert Murdock sponsored a fund raising event for Hillary.

What about Bill's brokering of a uranium deal with the president of Kazahkstan and his Canadian friend Frank Guistra in 2005? He received $131,000,000 for it and is now denying any wrong-doing after trying to keep it a secret for these last two years. Ask yourself why big corps love the Billary!!!

More of the same from the Clintons and we're doomed for more of the same if they get into the White house again.

Why do so many people take big media commentary for fact...Please people, take the time to learn facts! The more you dig up, the more you will realize that Obama is the right choice for Americans and the world.