Poll: 71 Percent Say Iraq Spending Hurting the Economy
Posted by Matt Ortega on March 19, 2008 at 10:47 AMMore than 7 out of 10 Americans think government spending on the war in Iraq is partly responsible for the economic troubles in the United States, according to results of a recent poll.
In the CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll conducted last weekend, 71 percent said they think U.S. spending in Iraq is a reason for the nation's poor economy. Twenty-eight percent said they didn't think so.
Five years into the war, the rosy estimates of the conflict's cost proved wrong. Through oil revenues, the war would pay for itself, argued Paul Wolfowitz. The administration claimed before the war that it would cost $60 billion.
In October 2002, Congressional budget experts estimated that war with Iraq could reach $9 billion a month. Five years into the war, the U.S. is spending more than $10 billion a month.
The Pentagon claims spending on the war has reached $600 billion, but the Congressional Budget Office says $1 trillion to $2 trillion is more realistic, reports the New York Times.
The poll also found that more than 2 to 1 oppose the war in Iraq, with 66 percent in opposition and only 32 percent in support.
A separate poll released this week shows that a majority of Americans believe that the war was not worth it.
Comments - 18 »
Comments - 18 «
If people really wanted this war to end they would not stand up and cheer when McCain talks about war. I have never seen such a sick country and people that will vote for people who want war. Well, when they vote the republicans back in they will get there wars and killing. But they will have no social programs. Because all of our tax's will go to the oil companies and war.
Posted by usahope1 on March 19, 2008 at 01:15 PM
WASHINGTON - President Bush defiantly defended the Iraq war Wednesday as U.S. troops began a sixth year of combat in the long and costly conflict that has dominated his presidency. Bush conceded the war has been harder and more expensive than anticipated but insisted it has all been necessary to keep Americans safe.
Folks, this is a very sad time in our history. My hearts go out to the military families.
The bottomline is that we could fought a better more wiser war.
It was not wise to go to war without a plan to stabilize Iraq.
I cant believe he has the heart to come out and lie again.
Posted by Free on March 19, 2008 at 06:42 PM
If Bush has to send her daughters to fight the war, I'm so sure, it will be better planned and equipped.
Posted by Free on March 19, 2008 at 06:45 PM
If people hate conservatives, it's because the conservatives have sold this country down the river for the sake of the rich and greedy.
Anyone who continues to stick up for an administration who has lied to start an illegal unilateral war, abused the very kids who stepped up to fight this war, and then kicks them to the curb when they are mentally and physically wounded by that was, and which cuts taxes for the rich while putting the burden of paying for the war on our children and grandchildren is NO "patriot".
Posted by Butte on March 20, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Sweetheart Patriotmom:
Some how it seems you are against taxes except when republicans by being in an illegal, unjust war raise the debt so that our children and grandchildren owe over $29,00 in indebtedness and increasing every second . You must remember if you please, that rightful taxes are for the good of the commonwealth and during Clinton's administration the USA decreased indebtedness, ,had a surplus in budget and balanced the budget, with the greatest job growth of any of the previous republican administrations, etc etc. however this "conservative" adm. destroyed it all, so what's you beef? Get the child out of the way of the speeding locomotive and why don't you assume responsility by taking the full blow, not leave it for next generations.
Posted by lmdresch on March 21, 2008 at 10:31 AM
Sweetheart Patriotmom:
Some how it seems you are against taxes except when republicans by being in an illegal, unjust war raise the debt so that our children and grandchildren owe over $29,00 in indebtedness and increasing every second . You must remember if you please, that rightful taxes are for the good of the commonwealth and during Clinton's administration the USA decreased indebtedness, ,had a surplus in budget and balanced the budget, with the greatest job growth of any of the previous republican administrations, etc etc. however this "conservative" adm. destroyed it all, so what's you beef? Get the child out of the way of the speeding locomotive and why don't you assume responsility by taking the full blow, not leave it for next generations.
Posted by lmdresch on March 21, 2008 at 10:32 AM
Sweetheart Patriotmom:
Some how it seems you are against taxes except when republicans by being in an illegal, unjust war raise the debt so that our children and grandchildren owe over $29,000 in indebtedness and increasing every second . You must remember if you please, that rightful taxes are for the good of the commonwealth and during Clinton's administration the USA decreased indebtedness, ,had a surplus in budget and balanced the budget, with the greatest job growth of any of the previous republican administrations, etc etc. however this "conservative" adm. destroyed it all, so what's you beef? Get the child out of the way of the speeding locomotive and why don't you assume responsility by taking the full blow, not leave it for next generations.
Posted by lmdresch on March 21, 2008 at 10:34 AM
Sweetheart Patriotmom:
Some how it seems you are against taxes except when republicans by being in an illegal, unjust war raise the debt so that our children and grandchildren owe over $29,000 in indebtedness and increasing every second . You must remember if you please, that rightful taxes are for the good of the commonwealth and during Clinton's administration the USA decreased indebtedness, ,had a surplus in budget and balanced the budget, with the greatest job growth of any of the previous republican administrations, etc etc. however this "conservative" adm. destroyed it all, so what's you beef? Get the child out of the way of the speeding locomotive and why don't you assume responsility by taking the full blow, not leave it for next generations.
Sorry for the missing 0's and any mispellings in first post.
Posted by lmdresch on March 21, 2008 at 10:39 AM
Posted by Patriotmom on March 22, 2008 at 11:28 PM
You're a fool. You believe everything the RW tells you?? Hahaha, read on:
The plain text is a Republican propaganda email full of crap and lies. The bold print is the correct info (usually called "the truth" but Republicans don't usually recognize it).
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2187rank.html
Do you see where we are? #163. Twelve years of Republican financial policy put us there. (In case you don't want to look at the link now, I'll just tell you that it's current account balances of countries around the world. Last place is, you guessed it, 163. The US has more debt than the rest of the world combined. But, look at the link if you want to double check that. And, it's from the CIA, so it has to be true, right?)
Now…
Proposed changes in taxes after 2008 General election:
CAPITAL GAINS TAX - wrong/misleading
MCCAIN
15% (no change)
OBAMA
28%
CLINTON
24%
How does this affect you? If you sell your home and make a profit, you will pay 28% of your gain on taxes. If you are heading toward retirement and would like to down-size your home or move into a retirement community, 28% of the money you make from your home will go to taxes. This proposal will adversely affect the elderly who are counting on the income from their homes as part of their retirement income.
Obama said more people who own their homes should get relief from mortgage payments. The current mortgage interest deduction only goes to those who itemize their taxes, while Obama would create a universal mortgage credit of 10% of interest payments the campaign says would benefit an additional 10 million homeowners.
Oh yeah, he’s really screwing over homeowners, there, huh. And by the way, whomever wrote this is extremely fact challenged, you only pay a capital gain on the sale of your home if you do not live there as a primary residence for two years - and they don’t even need to be consecutive. What a load of crap they are shoveling.
Obama will return the Capital Gains tax to Reagan Era levels, and it will only affect you if you are incredibly wealthy -who received a very unnecessary tax break that they neither needed or asked for WHILE OUR DAMN COUNTRY WAS AT WAR AND AS TAXPAYERS, WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PITCHING IN MORE TO PAY FOR IT NOT GETTING TAX BREAKS AND DRIVING UP OUR DEFICITS TO THIRD WORLD LEVELS.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/us/politics/19obama.html?_r=1&ref=politics&oref=slogin
DIVIDEND TAX
MCCAIN
15% (no change)
OBAMA
39.6%
CLINTON
39.6%
How will this affect you? If you have any money invested in stock market, IRA, mutual funds, college funds, life insurance, retirement accounts, or anything that pays or reinvests dividends, you will now be paying nearly 40% of the money earned on taxes if Obama or Clinton become president. The experts predict that "Higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains would crash the stock market yet do absolutely nothing to cut the deficit."
First of all, who are these “experts”? I think Wall Street deregulation has recently proven a mistake, with Bear Stearns requiring their own special brand of government welfare, much like the S&L Bailout required government welfare to help these financial “geniuses” out of their own messes. And again, only the incredibly wealthy are asked to pay – the top1% - not every Tom, Dick and Jane who owns a little 401K. More bullshit. And on that note – this OpEd in the Washington Post says it better than me:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/17/AR2008031702154.html
So now the bailouts begin, and Wall Street usefully might feel a bit of gratitude, perhaps by being willing to have the wealthy foot some of the bill or to acknowledge that while its denizens were getting rich, a lot of Americans were losing jobs and health insurance. I'm waiting.
So please, give me just a little bit of a break about the poor, pitiful hedge fund managers that may have to forego that second vacation home overseas under Obama’s plan.
INCOME TAX
MCCAIN
(no changes)
Single making 30K - tax $4,500
Single making 50K - tax $12,500
Single making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 60K- tax $9,000
Married making 75K - tax $18,750
Married making 125K - tax $31,250
OBAMA
(reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
CLINTON
(reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
Single making 30K - tax $8,400
Single making 50K - tax $14,000
Single making 75K - tax $23,250
Married making 60K - tax $16,800
Married making 75K - tax $21,000
Married making 125K - tax $38,750
How does this affect you? No explanation needed. This is pretty straight forward.
First off, Obama would like to bring Tax Preparation into this century, which will affect all of us in a positive way:
The campaign said Obama's plan to eliminate taxes on seniors making less than $50,000 annually would mean 22 million elderly no longer would need to file an income tax return or hire a tax preparer.
Additionally, the IRS would send prefilled tax forms to 40 million workers who take the standard deduction and have a bank account. They simply would have to sign and return it, which Obama estimates would save more than $2 billion in tax preparer fees, 200 million hours of work and "an incalculable amount of headache and heartburn."
And on those numbers, read this: http://obama.3cdn.net/b7be3b7cd08e587dca_v852mv8ja.pdf and get back to me, tell me how they came up with those numbers, please. You can’t. That’s what I thought.
INHERITANCE TAX
MCCAIN
0%
(No change, Bush repealed this tax)
OBAMA
keep the inheritance tax
CLINTON
keep the inheritance tax
How does this affect you? Many families have lost businesses, farms and ranches, and homes that have been in their families for generations because they could not afford the inheritance tax. Those willing their assets to loved ones will not only lose them to these taxes.
Small businesses and farms rarely--if ever--are forced to sell off assets or close up shop to pay the tax. Under the current exemption, roughly 99% of estates owe nothing in estate taxes. By 2011, with a $3.5 million exemption, only two of every 100,000 people who die that year would be subject to the estate tax.
UNLESS YOUR ESTATE IS VALUED AT OVER $4 MILLION – YOU DO NOT PAY THIS TAX. Is your “estate” worth that much? Didn’t think so – and if it was, you can afford to hire a tax attorney find ways to protect lots and lots of that moola from the big, bad Government.
NEW TAXES BEING PROPOSED BY BOTH CLINTON AND OBAMA
* New government taxes proposed on homes that are more than 2400 square feet
* New gasoline taxes (as if gas weren't high enough already)
* New taxes on natural resources consumption (heating gas, water, electricity)
* New taxes on retirement accounts
and last but not least....
* New taxes to pay for socialized medicine so we can receive the same level of medical care as other third-world countries!!!
Socialized medicine – really? That’s what you’re going with? Are we supposed to check for reds under the beds again? Jeepers, people. The truth is, we are the ONLY first world country that doesn’t care for our sick unless they have disposable income to pay for it, and they can navigate through the minefield of profit-based health insurance whose bottom line depends on denying a percentage of those in need of care. Healing its citizens who are sick is not a measure of a country’s weakness, but a sign of its strength and commitment to its people and its future.
And on this last mess
In case you want more information on Obama's tax and spend agenda:
Are you serious? Tax and Spend? After twelve years of Credit Card mentality SPEND AND SPEND Republican fiscal irresponsibility – you expect anyone with a brain and a working memory to trust “conservatives” to get us out of the hole, the deep, yawning chasm of backbreaking debt that your “send the sheep a $300 check once in awhile and they won’t notice the terrifying DEBT this country is in” leadership?!
Tax and Spend and PAYGO (pay as you go) is FAR MORE responsible than the current head –in-the-sand, spend like a drunken sailor, screw the future, our time is now, let the next administration handle our messes, blind fool of a financial policy we have been following under Republican leadership.
REPUBLICANS BEST NOT EVER, EVER CRITICIZE ANYONE ELSE’S ECONOMIC POLICY AGAIN. Our twelve year experiment in cutting government income (taxes) while growing spending and deregulating EVERYTHING has been a complete and total FAILURE. A FAILURE ON A MONUMENTAL LEVEL.
Posted by margotb822 on March 23, 2008 at 12:56 PM
By The Associated Press
19 minutes ago
As of Sunday, March 23, 2008, at least 3,996 members of the U.S. military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. The figure includes eight military civilians. At least 3,253 died as a result of hostile action, according to the military's numbers.
The AP count is five more than the Defense Department's tally, last updated Friday at 10 a.m. EDT.
The British military has reported 175 deaths; Italy, 33; Ukraine, 18; Poland, 21; Bulgaria, 13; Spain, 11; Denmark, seven; El Salvador, five; Slovakia, four; Latvia, three; Estonia, Netherlands, Thailand, Romania, two each; and Australia, Hungary, Kazakhstan, South Korea, one death each.
___
The latest deaths reported by the military:
� No deaths reported.
___
The latest identifications reported by the military:
� No identifications reported.
Posted by Solja on March 23, 2008 at 08:18 PM
Posted by Patriotmom on March 23, 2008 at 08:54 PM
Wow you read that whole article by yourself!! I'm so proud of you. Maybe next week you can come up with your own thoughts and ideas. I know it sounds hard, but you can probably do it. All you have to do is put down the kool-aid the right wing has been spooning into your mouth.
It's interesting to me that you consider facts foolish and blind following of a government that has repeatedly lied patriotic. Personally, I consider my voluntary Naval service patriotic, I consider speaking out against a corrupt administration my Constitutional right and I consider a separation of church and state critical to the survival of America as the founders imagined.
Of course, when the tables are turned and a Democrat is in the White House and Democrats in control of Congress, you'll flip and say that it's patriotic to speak out against the government and that you have to maintain your freedom of speech. But, the great thing about being a Democrat is that we always believe people have a right to free speech, free religion and all other Constitutional rights...even if we don't personally believe in those rights.
So, fake-triot mom, what good things have you done for your country? Ever served? No, doubt it. That's for other people. But you'll sure yell and scream and stamp your feet (sheep tend to get riled up easy). Why don't you go somewhere else where people agree with you, this political discourse isn't your strength.
Posted by margotb822 on March 24, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Posted by Patriotmom on March 24, 2008 at 09:00 PM
I suppose you believe that a nation can run on credit forever? I suppose you believe that paying taxes only leads to evil? I suppose you think that low taxes equals small government? Perhaps reality will jump up and bite you to bring you back, because honey, this can't continue. If you want a small government, you have to have small government policies. War and empire building aren't that. If you want to have an empire, you have to have the money to support it. Of course, it wouldn't bother you to elect another man who has admitted that he doesn't know enough about the economy.
During WWII the federal government withheld entire paychecks to fund the war! Since you're such a patriot, you would surely support that. Especially if it would give people like your husband's comrades in arms better equipment. But, hey, no taxes! Yay!
And, this public education that used to be the best in the world, now 37th! Yay no taxes! Let's pay our teachers next to nothing in order to ensure that we spiral into generations of poor learners taught by the disgruntled teachers!
You probably also celebrate your tax return, even though it was your money to begin with. And I'm sure you're thrilled by the extra $145 million of debt this nation is accruing in order to pay you $600-1200. Yup, gotta give money back to the people to stimulate the economy because giving it all to the companies and the rich has just ground this economy to a halt. Weird, demand-side economics bailing out supply-side policies. Will you just ignore these facts and blindly hope that you can continue to pay a little and get even less?
Taxes will not be the downfall of America. War, hatred, greed and fear will, and you seem to be a good job perpetuating that. Yay for you! Such a patriot! Hahaha, you're a dope. I've said my piece, but I doubt it got any distance into your thick skull. So, I'm going to leave you to post someone else's ill-informed writings. Bye fake-triot!
Posted by margotb822 on March 24, 2008 at 10:04 PM
My gawd, WHERE do these uninformed, low intellect people come from? SURe clinton raised taxes, and we then had the best economy in the history of the USA. He wiped out the LOANS and deficit that the Republicans achieved by LOWERING Taxes. We had the best housing Market in history. Our Jobs were secure and plentiful, he built them up by the hundreds of thousands per month! His welfare program finally corrected years of abuse. Our World image and the US dollar were strong !
Listen un-patriotic Mom, you should spend your time googling and reading, instead of trying to pretend you know anything ! Take your greasy little wallet and shove it! Your desire to hold onto every last dollar shows a certain ignorance of what Taxation is for. It is the price one pays for a Civilized Society! Enjoy the Roads and highways we taxpayers paid for. Like your security with Police and Fireman? That was paid by our tax dollars. Does your old grandmother and parents enjoy their Social Security? That was put in by Liberals. And does Medicare help them in their old age? How about the Education your kids get? (Bush has fucked it up, but we Dems will get it straightened out, like Clinton did)
You are obviously a Ron Paul Libertarian, who should go with the rest of your kind and find an Island where you all hang onto your own money, and see what happens ! We are sick of your pissing and moaning because you have to take care of the Elderly, the children, the disabled, the poor, the Veterans, etc!
Posted by PamB on March 25, 2008 at 08:35 AM
Geez louise, will American ever grow up and realize that some things are best done as public services. You can't trust the private sector to handle everything because they place profit before the public interest. You can't count on competition in all cases because sometimes there is only one entity that can realistically deliver the service.
The public sector runs on taxes. Get over it!
Posted by rjsnj on March 25, 2008 at 09:42 AM
Oh yeah, I have another thought for these economic no tax dream world Libertarians. You keep saying things like Patrick Henry said give me "liberty or death" and not taxes. That sounds clever on paper. But what the founders really said was no taxation without representation ... in other words being ruled by a dictator (like Bush!). Benjamin Franklin, one of the most common sense founders, realized very early that there is a need for a public sector - fire department, the start of health services, etc... He realized that "no taxation" was idiocy.
Get over it babies ... you need taxes in any civilization. It's okay to insist that your money is spent wisely and without waste but the public sector does work on taxes. Speaking of waste - do you really think the Iraq occupation should cost 12 billion a month? How is it possible that the cost has increased 6 fold in just a couple of years?
Posted by rjsnj on March 25, 2008 at 09:50 AM
Getting back to the issue on the thread (now that an attempt was made to steer the discussion elsewhere into Libertarian philosophy)
This issue has been addressed very well by the Nobel Laureate economist Joseph Stiglitz:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23286149-2703,00.html
The main theme of Stiglitz work (actually a book on the subject) is that the debt incurred from Iraq occupation devalued the dollar. When that happened, banks borrowing money from the Fed became cheap. So, banks had alot of cash on hand ... this sometimes stated as liquity in the system. In addition, the Fed dropped interest rates and simply printed alot more money to super-charge this. Being cash rich, the banks got sloppy with the money making loans they should not have made. Did you ever wonder how all of these hard-nosed bankers got stupid at the same time? It's no accident! Then, a housing bubble formed and it now burst. Meanwhile, the loans were complicated by derivatives - mortgage based securities. So, the effect has spread not only to banks but investment banks, pensions, hedge funds, etc...
Yes, no doubt. Iraq spending is the chief cause of this recession.
Posted by rjsnj on March 25, 2008 at 10:05 AM
Thanks for the clean up Michael!
And thanks for stepping in Dems!
Posted by margotb822 on March 25, 2008 at 10:20 AM
Way to go margot, Republicans are for welfare-corporate welfare. Can you say Bear Sterns?
Everytime you hear a republican say, "I'm for free markets" its code for "I'm in the back pocket of multinational companies."
I think America sees what unfettered, unregulated capitalism really is.
If republicans are for "free markets" why is everything made by communists?
Posted by newsjunkie on March 30, 2008 at 01:34 AM
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