Afternoon Open Thread
- McCain's "base" rewards him with his favorite treat.
- He's also even further to the right than people already believe.
- Senator Vitter won't testify.
- John McCain fooled; the McCain girls reveal the parody.
Chat away...
Comments (54) «
Fear of Iraq continued through the 90s.
Both the Bush and Clinton administrations misled us about the threat posed by Iraq
"In a November 1997 Sunday morning appearance on ABC, Defense Secretary William Cohen held up a five-pound bag of sugar for the cameras to dramatize the threat of Iraqi anthrax: "This amount of anthrax could be spread over a city -- let's say the size of Washington. It would destroy at least half the population of that city. One breath and you are likely to face death within five days."
"It could wipe out populations of whole countries!" Cokie Roberts gasped as Cohen described the Iraqi arsenal. "Millions, millions," Cohen responded, "if it were properly dispersed."
Our objective has to be to beat the Repelicans, everything else must be secondary to this.
The First Draft of History Looks a Bit Rough on Bush By Kenneth T. Walsh Posted April 11, 2008
President Bush often argues that history will vindicate him. So he can't be pleased with an informal survey of 109 professional historians conducted by the History News Network. It found that 98 percent of them believe that Bush's presidency has been a failure, while only about 2 percent see it as a success. Not only that, more than 61 percent of the historians say the current presidency is the worst in American history. In 2004, only 11.6 percent of the historians rated Bush's presidency in last place. Among the reasons given for his low ratings: invading Iraq, "tax breaks for the rich," and alienating many nations around the world. Bush supporters counter that professional historians today tend to be liberal and that it's too early to assess how his policies will turn out...
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/politics/2008/04/11/the-first-draft-of-history-looks-a-bit-rough-on-bush.html
Only 98%? What's wrong with the other 2%? Besides, we all know what the GOP thinks of academia. They'll come out and accuse the historians of being liberals. I wish we were 98% liberal in this nation. Then we wouldn't be in as bad a shape as we are now.
Obama's comment reminded me of something i posted last 4th of July. Perhaps this is more like what he wanted to say.
A PROMISE BROKEN -- A PROMISE KEPT As young people growing up in America, we are told we live in the greatest country on earth, a country where all men are created equal and each has a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We are told that if we go to college and work hard the ’American Dream’ will be ours, we will be able to live our lives with dignity and pride and we will want for very little. We are told our government is comprised of three separate branches with checks and balances to prevent any one branch from becoming too powerful. God is inserted into our national anthem, put upon our currency, invoked in our official ceremonies, and we are told ‘He’ is on our side. These and a great deal more we are told while we are yet naïve to the treacherousness of greed and the powers of great wealth.As we mature into young adults, we become increasing aware of the ’ifs and buts’ working to moderate our expectations. We begin to realize that not all we were told was exactly correct and that, indeed, much was cruel lies. We lose the twinkle in our once childish eyes as we become aware of the pervasive reality of social injustices imbedded deep within the fabric of our country’s institutions. We realize there are those among us who profess to be our leaders who manipulate these injustices to their own advantage, seeking to increase their personal wealth and power while diminishing both for others. Confronted by obstacle upon never ending obstacle, many of us lose hope and sink into despair. Many others in acts of not so quiet desperation, lash out violently and indiscriminately, seeking ‘revenge’ for all the broken promises.
The dark cloud which shadows our nation’s future is that we are, in fact, ‘our own worst enemy’. The realization of this leaves open the possibility of restored hope. Thru our own thoughtfulness, intelligence, and compassion for the lives of others we can correct the inequities of the past, change the course of our country, and lead the way to a brighter day. What more fitting way to celebrate the anniversary of the birth of our country than to pledge our unending opposition to adversity. And what better way to keep the promise of a better tomorrow than to promise to cast the light of truth into all the dark places of our world.
Happy Birthday America!
later...have to till some soil.
MCCAIN: 'HILLARY CAN STILL PULL IT OFF'; SENATOR PREFERS CLINTON CONTEST Mon Apr 14 2008 10:46:19 ET**Exclusive**
Republican presidential hopeful John McCain has confided to his inner circle that Hillary Clinton may yet be the Democratic nominee, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned, a development the senator from Arizona would personally welcome!
"Look, I know something about long odds, they had me written off last summer," McCain explained over the weekend, according to a top source.
McCain would prefer to go up against Clinton in the general election, insiders reveal.
He has instructed his campaign staff to "chill out" on countering Hillary Clinton's torrent of claims and promises as primary voting comes to an end over the next 6 weeks.
McCain made the tactical decision to downplay Clinton's tale of Bosnia sniper fire, leaving some McCain staffers frustrated and perplexed.
Instead, the critical focus has been on Barack Obama. McCain's official website features 14 press releases taking on Obama since the first of the year, only 3 for the former first lady.
Developing...
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1jm.htm
So the GOP nominee has decided to endorse the junior senator from NY for POTUS. This election keeps getting stranger and stranger.
[Tinfoil hat mode ON] - Could it be that since they are from the same cabal hellbent on subjugating the planet that he decided to endorse her? Who made him do this?
[Tinfoil hat mode OFF] - I'd rather run against the junior Senator from NY as well. We all know she hits her support ceiling at about 47%.
Posted by BoilerMan on April 14, 2008 at 03:10 PM
If Sen. Obama (D-IL) had put it that way, we'd all still be laughing at President Clinton's stupid mistake of rehashing the sniper fire story instead of wasting our time pointing out that Sen. Obama has once again spoken truth to power and the GOP is PO'd because of it.
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama08 on April 14, 2008 at 03:01 PM
Just like the "Intelligent Designers" there are always a few that want to argue with fact based data and refuse to accept science or proof.
"...but...but..you're hair is on fire!"
"No it's not..it's God talking to me..you think you see my hair on fire, but it is the hand of God.."
"..but...but I smell burnt hair!!"
"Then that is what God smells like. To you it smells like burnt hair, but to me, it smells like what heaven must smell like"
To the 2%....hey...you're hair is on fire!
Bush prepares global warming initiative By Stephen Dinan April 14, 2008President Bush is poised to change course and announce as early as this week that he wants Congress to pass a bill to combat global warming, and will lay out principles for what that should include.
Specifics of the policy are still being fiercely debated, but Bush administration officials have told Republicans in Congress that they feel pressure to act now because they fear a coming regulatory nightmare. It would be the first time Mr. Bush has called for statutory authority on the subject.
"This is an attempt to move the administration and the party closer to the center on global warming. With these steps, it is hoped that the debate over this is over, and it is time to do something," said an administration source close to the White House who is familiar with the planning and who said to expect an announcement this week.
The source requested anonymity to be able to speak on a sensitive matter still under debate. Given the arguments at the White House over the extent of the action to take, it is not clear exactly what Mr. Bush will propose, the adminstration source said...
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080414/NATION/676175489/1001
This is the equvialent of Kim Jong Il giving a class in democracy. None the less, let's see what our POTUS proposes. My guess is tax breaks for the more carbon a company spews into the atmosphere with bonuses for those corporations who can outsource the most jobs in the process.
Speaking of McDebt...you's guy's see this??
Suit filed over McCain's campaign financeshttp://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-money15apr15,1,7605742.story
Could this be what Rev Wright was talking about?
Sludge tested as lead-poisoning fix
The Maryland Court of Appeals likened the study to Nazi medical research on concentration camp prisoners, the U.S. government's 40-year Tuskegee study that denied treatment for syphilis to black men in order to study the illness and Japan's use of "plague bombs" in World War II to infect and study entire villages.
The comment that the only reason that rural people are interested in guns and faith is bitterness is absolutely horrendous. This was a classic Michael Dukakis-style mistake.
People hunt and worship God not because of bitterness but because hunting and faith are a part of who people are in this country.
If the Senator does not take hunters and people of faith more seriously and on a deeper level he will, like Mr. Dukakis, blow his chance of securing election to the presidency. This error in judgment on his part is serious.
Posted by BigBadDog on April 14, 2008 at 04:04 PM
This is what happens when truth is spoken to power. Furthermore, Sen. Obama (D-IL) was referring to the portion of the electorate that votes only on these issues, not the ones who are smart enough to walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.
But you're correct to point out that the knuckle-draggers who are offended by his comments are allowed to vote no matter how much they resemble his remarks. We should not throw away votes.
U.S. Rep. Geoff Davis, a Hebron Republican, compared Obama and his message for change similar to a "snake oil salesman" [at a Northern Kentucky Lincoln Day dinner].He said in his remarks at the GOP dinner that he also recently participated in a "highly classified, national security simulation" with Obama.
"I'm going to tell you something: That boy's finger does not need to be on the button," Davis said. "He could not make a decision in that simulation that related to a nuclear threat to this country."
An aide to Davis, Jeremy Hughes, declined to comment on the remark, and didn't dispute the accuracy of the quote.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Secrecy_and_propriety_in_Kentucky.html
This is the typical individual that was offended by the remarks of Sen. Obama (D-IL) on 6APR08. Is there really anymore that needs to be said?
"It's not surprising then they get bitter," he said. "They cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Can someone please explain to me why Obama's word could have been offensive?
I'm working class and all of my family are. We go hunting, we swear, my brothers all have shitty jobs that they work their asses off and yes..they are mad and they are bitter and they are pissed.
And they blame illegal immigrants, off shoring and out sourcing and tax cuts for the wealthy and George Bush.
Jesus...he was only stating the obvious and somehow it's spun and manipulated to somehow suggest that he is talking down.
He's is a whole bunch more working class than the wealthy elitist who are spinning and pretending to be in touch and hiding money off shore so it doesn't get taxed.
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama08 on April 14, 2008 at 04:29 PM
A lot of people are having a few other problems with that quote:
(He is only 2 1/2 years older than Obama.)
Posted by Michigan_Dave on April 14, 2008 at 04:37 PM
Because that so-called offensive comment is the straw that these people are grasping on to. They would be doing the same thing if he said the word "boo". The republicans and Hillary are frightened of the power he has given to the people.
Posted by Michigan_Dave on April 14, 2008 at 04:37 PM
I don't get it either, Dave. The only thing I can think of is that the people who got mad did such because he called them out on it.
The fastest way to shut these bone heads up and get to talking about issues is for BOTH candidates to go on all the bobble head shows and as soon as Timmeh starts with the manure stories he should be asked "Do you really get paid $5 Million a year to be the stupidest man on TV?"
I guarantee that the subject will swiftly change from some talking head's phony 'concern' to the real issues and the others will be afraid of any backlash if they pursue it.
Mr. & Mrs. Bitter will be even more PO'd at the TV talkers.
Talk about "elites"!
Posted by Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on April 14, 2008 at 04:58 PM
In a perfect world, you'd be absolutely correct. However, this is the only chance left for the junior senator from NY to make a comback. And even if means the detriment of the party, she'll use it. No one can beat Sen. Obama (D-IL) on the issues alone. That is why they resort to these tactics.
Put you're correct to point out that the knuckle-draggers who are offended by his comments are allowed to vote no matter how much they resemble his remarks. We should not throw away votes.Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama08 on April 14, 2008 at 04:14 PM
As if they would vote for Obama anyway. Those with such a deep set conservative worldview as to be offended by Obama's comments would never have voted for "that boy" anyway.
Seriously? Actually OUT LOUD? Did he think he was in the Cone of Silence of something?
Bob, it's already happening. Rev. Wright came out swinging last Saturday.
Escalating into full-preaching mode, Wright thundered, “Fox News can’t understand that. [Bill] O’Reilly will never get that. Sean Hannity’s stupid fantasy will keep him forever stuck on stupid when it comes to comprehending how you can love a brother who does not believe what you believe. [Pincham’s] faith was a faith in a God who loved the whole world not just one country or one creed.”At that point, congregants nearly drowned Wright out with a booming standing ovation.
Wright also referred to Fox News as “Fix News.”
FOX is stunned at how mean he was to them.
I say GOOD. It's time for someone to pull the plug on the Mighty Right Wing Wurlitzer.
You know, the more I listen to Republicans talk about the "surge", the more I feel like they're all related to Wimp Lo, from Kung Pow: Enter the Fist. They think losing is winning.
The true mark of colonization: making the colonists pay for your occupation.
Iraq's financial free ride may end
I don't think this will do much to improve our appeal in Iraq; it will probably have the opposite affect. This stupid thing needs to be over...
More Republican economic success: Food costs rising fastest in 17 years
Everywhere you look, Republican policies are hurting average Americans, and even the above average. We can only stretch our money so far. Damn right I'm bitter!
Good afternoon, all.
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama08 on April 14, 2008 at 03:13 PM
Bob,
Yeah, and he thinks Hillary is a Shiite, too?
Our objective has to be to beat the Repelicans, everything else must be secondary to this.
Posted by gregg on April 14, 2008 at 02:00 PM
gregg,
Agreed. So how is tag teaming with McCain against another Democrat accomplishing this?
hey y'all!
just dropping by to say that I'm feeling very angry and bitter about the economy, the war, violence and corruption in government!
I'M VERY BITTER ABOUT THE STATE OF THE COUNTRY AND THE WORLD WITH BUSH AND FRIENDS!
I'M SO BITTER!
I'VE NEVER FELT MORE BITTER!
Posted by Sadie on April 14, 2008 at 06:00 PM
Everytime the McBushstream Media and the other candidate pull these cheap swiftboat charades we should only respond with:
NOT THIS TIME.
The United States of America is too important to let it all go to crap on a third term of the Bush Administration.
Posted by SandyH on April 14, 2008 at 05:51 PM
Perhaps he does. Although, next week he'll probably call her a Sunni.
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama08 on April 14, 2008 at 06:15 PM
Especially if she goes to Iran.
Heck, yeah, I rely on my gun in hard times! I can put meat on the table a heck of a lot cheaper with a deer tag and a rifle than I can by getting it at the grocery store! And NO growth hormones or antibiotics in it either!
BTW, my ex's family used to say that you couldn't find a rabbit, a groundhog, or a squirrel in the woods in eastern Kentucky during the Depression. They'd all been shot and put on the dinner table.
I know of one family, during a series of layoffs in the oil fields in the '80s, invited their kid's friend over for supper. The father apologized for serving venison. "That's all right" the kid replied, "At home, we're ran out of deer, and we're eating my pony."
You gotta do what you gotta do. I have no doubt that we'll make it through all this.
BUT, you don't have to like it, that's the bitter part!
Back in the old days, a tribe caught the Indian Agent cheating them out of their rations. They killed him and stuffed grass in his mouth to show their displeasure. I'd say they were kind of bitter too!
At least we can VOTE the SOBs out of office! It's a lot less messy!
No Republicans, Blue Dogs nor Republi-lites need apply!
When Bush gives each American taxpayer this $6oo (which we will later have to PAY BACK WITH INTEREST!) he is a copycat: He is copying what DICTATORS Julius Caesar and Octavian Caesar did in the process of murdering the Roman Republic and replacing it with the Roman Empire! This is Neocon reactionary madness and just what does Congress think it's doing by going along with this nonsense!
Elitest? Obama? Hillary!
First, Hillary (the pot) calls Obama (the kettle) 'black' (race baiting is it). Now she calls him "elitest". Sheesh. If anyone is acting 'elitest' it is Hillary with her atitude that her First Ladyship should now ENTITLE her to return to the White House as president. Excuse me, but Hillary has consistently shown either 1/ Poor Judgment in listening to lousy Rove-style consultants/managers OR 2/ She harbors really rotten bigotry character flaws that make glad to make these attacks. OR can it be 3/ Both of these combined.
If Barack Obama shows the Audacity of Hope, Hillary Clinton displays only the Audacity of Hubris.
Hillary just keeps showing her own bitter self that acts in the same mode as the Bush-Neocon-Dominionist Triumvirate and I'm just SO TIRED of these "the ends justifies the means" bullies, whether it's led by the Bush Dynasty or a Clinton Dynasty....
At least we can VOTE the SOBs out of office! It's a lot less messy!Posted by Butte on April 14, 2008 at 06:33 PM
I disagree. I believe we should send them to their favorite country. They sure don't seem to like THIS one very much, so let's drop them off in Iraq.
Posted by GregL on April 14, 2008 at 06:30 PM
No, she's an Arab if she goes to Iran. She's a Sunni if she's in Tibet or Nepal.
You know, someone is going to stumble across this thread and think we're the two biggest idiots that ever posted here. ;-)
Let's see.
Gallup : Obama still up 10 points.
Rasmussen: Obama up 3 points.
N.C. PPP Poll: Obama still up 20 points.
Bittergate??? What is that???
Let's hope Sen. Clinton continues to waste her precious and (little) money she has on ads.
Really, what a great idea.
YUP! Bush worst President in the History of the USA, and History will record it!
98% of historians surveyed view Bush presidency as a failure
President Bush often argues that history will vindicate him. So he can't be pleased with an informal survey of 109 professional historians conducted by the History News Network. It found that 98 percent of them believe that Bush's presidency has been a failure, while only about 2 percent see it as a success. Not only that, more than 61 percent of the historians say the current presidency is the worst in American history.
98% of historians aren't wrong.
http://www.americablog.com/2008/04/98-of-historians-surveyed-view-bush.html
It Takes Real Chutzpah for a Guy Who Owns Eight Houses (McCain) to Call Barack Obama an "Elitist"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-creamer/it-takes-real-chutzpah-fo_b_96376.html
Posted by Michigan_Dave on April 14, 2008 at 04:37 PM
Posted by GregL on April 14, 2008 at 05:13 PM
You both make good points.
If one is offended by someone suggesting that they have a GOOD REASON to turn to their religion and guns in bad times, they would never vote for a Democrat anyway.
Why would Hillary think they would vote for her in the primary or the general election? Does she truly think small town conservatives would ever vote for her? They've never respected her...much less liked her.
Instead, I think she better start worrying about a backlash from the Right.
She's never been a gun supporter. Those Amendment 2 folks keep track of that sort of thing. Saying she always has been, when they know otherwise, will be jumped upon as hypocrisy...just compounding the low opinion they already have of her.
I can't believe how badly the Clinton campaign has been run. They don't have one positive strategy for their own candidate. All they are doing is attacking the misteps of their opponent.
People vote for something. Obama offers change. She offers....a Republican campaign and a lot of promises that she's never been able to deliver on in the past?
McCain is already running on that platform.
You know, someone is going to stumble across this thread and think we're the two biggest idiots that ever posted here. ;-)
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama08 on April 14, 2008 at 06:51 PM
Bob,
I believe it...and I got you both started on this discussion. You guys are so easily led astray. I love the way both of your humors work.
Posted by SandyH on April 14, 2008 at 07:23 PM
I believe it...and I got you both started on this discussion. You guys are so easily led astray...
That darn Y chromosone of mine has sold me out! Alas, duped, yet again, by a person of the fairer sex. Then again, there are worse fates...
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama08 on April 14, 2008 at 06:51 PM
Iran is Persian.
Good night fellow Democrats. Keep the Faith and keep the faith. The populist revolution has begun!
I am a Democrat and I am voting for a Democrat on 4NOV08. If you can't or won't say that, why are you here?
Posted by Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on April 14, 2008 at 07:31 PM
I knew it! This is all Sandy's fault!
It was a running gag between Greg and I joking on how the GOP nominee always screws up the nationalities and\or sectarian designation of all of the U.S.'s "enemies".
There was a woman pundit on Hardball just now who said that people are looking at large categories of people like they will all vote in the same way...which is not the case.
I think this is a very good point. Penn and Rove have always relied on the demographic thing. But when you look at the way people have voted so far in the Democratic primaries, no group is voting as a bloc.
I suppose we have Newt's Nightmare, Bush's Blunder, and Cheney's Corruption to thank for this. Why else are so many people registering and voting Democratic? These new voters come from all walks of life and they all seem to be united in one idea: change.
You can't manipulate demographics when people are so disgusted (bitter) about the corruption and incompetence of the last eight to fifteen years.
Have a good evening, fellow Democrats...and curious Independents, moderates, and disappointed Reagan Democrats.
Posted by Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on April 14, 2008 at 07:31 PM
I thought they were all French. Everyone hates the French.
Posted by SandyH on April 14, 2008 at 07:47 PM
Including the (Pah!) French.
(The snails are not too enamored with them either.)
Posted by Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on April 14, 2008 at 07:51 PM
Ah, another elitist Democrat looking down your nose at those who cling to their snails in times of trouble?
I LOVE escargot! MMmmmm, w/ Garlic and white wine sauce.
Yummers!
Fettuccine Alfredo with shrimp and scallops is almost ready.
BBL
One for the road. This one is for DPD who would rather eat his cake...not snails?
How Hunger Could Topple RegimesBy TONY KARON Mon Apr 14
The idea of the starving masses driven by their desperation to take to the streets and overthrow the ancien regime has seemed impossibly quaint since capitalism triumphed so decisively in the Cold War. Since then, the spectacle of hunger sparking revolutionary violence has been the stuff of Broadway musicals rather than the real world of politics.
And yet, the headlines of the past month suggest that skyrocketing food prices are threatening the stability of a growing number of governments around the world. Ironically, it may be the very success of capitalism in transforming regions previously restrained by various forms of socialism that has helped create the new crisis.
news.yahoo.com/s/time/20080414/wl_time/howhungercouldtoppleregimes
Oh, wonderful. Bush is now responsible for destroying capitalism as well as the hope for democracy around the globe, too?
Good night, all.
Ok, I have noticed something. Something is changing.
Carville, Rendell, Corzine.
All big, I mean BIG, HRC supporters.
But in the last couple of days, there seems to be a change.
They seem to moving, just a bit away from Sen. Clinton.
I think they have started to come to a realization, that maybe just maybe they need to start covering their bases.
These are all longtime, savvy politicians.
I think it's interesting.
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