Afternoon Open Thread
Posted by Michael Link on May 20, 2008 at 01:16 PM- 118
- Headline: "FAA Whistleblower Intimidation Probed."
- Republicans failing to reach out and recruit minority candidates.
Chat away...
Comments - 55 »
Comments - 55 «
The Kennedy family has had it's share of tragedies, now this.
Boston has some of the finest Cancer treatment facilities in the country.
May this turn out to be one of the sucess stories with this horrible disease.
Posted by PamB on May 20, 2008 at 02:32 PM
Good afternoon fellow Democrats.
Obama \ Clinton 2008
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama08 on May 20, 2008 at 02:44 PM
Why The Family and Hillary through allignment is a problem
Obama has Wright.
McCain has Hagee, Parsely, et al.
HILLARY HAS DOUG COE.
Obama's Rev. Wright is a total Progressive clergyman, doing the charitable work and supporting social justice through clear thinking and awareness of historical context.
McCain's pastors Hagee and Parsely and the rest of his group of Christianists with reactionary ideology and profiteering tactics, are total opportunists and succeed in their ambitions by manipulating their "flocks" (read that as $HEEP), and obviously act as petty crooks fingering their marks.
Hillary's Doug Coe of The Fellowship (aka The Family) is THE FASCISTS' PASTOR. Doug Coe works to fashion the death of Democratic Freedoms and insert THEOCRACY instead. And he admittedly, by choice, uses the methods of Hitler (see his written instructions to his devotees, below)! Doug Coe's goals are the goals of an anti-Constitution degenerate who desires to mold a new world religious order based on a twisted "morality" of solidarity and obedience to Authority in a fascist context!
HILLARY'S CONNECTION TO DOUG COE AND THE FELLOWSHIP MUST BE MADE CLEAR AND KNOWN! It's an anti-Constitution connection. It is a NEO-CRUSADE position.
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Further reading on The Fellowship (aka The Family):
The Nation, "Hillary's Nasty Pastorate," by Barbara Ehrenreich
Harper's Magazine March 2003, "Jesus plus nothing" by Jeffrey Sharlet
Mother Jones October 2007, "Hillary's Prayer" by Kathryn Joyce and Jeffrey Sharlet
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P.S. Hillary Clinton clearly expresses how she shares the radicalized views of the fascistic reactionary religious right when she repeatedly makes irresponsible, incendiary, NeoCrusade-mongering statements about "obliterating Iran" and makes a domestic anti-progressive Crusade of denouncing a progressive liberation pastor like Rev. Jeremiah Wright! Hillary is giving us very nasty warning glimpses of what her praying with Doug Coe has wrought in her own life, and we'd better heed them! (Remember, the reason Bush has used the term "Islamo-fascists" is because he chooses to divert attention from the actions of Christo-fascists.)
ADDENDUM:
Why is Hillary (as well as many other U.S.government officials) alligned with this The Fellowship and its goal of THEOCRACY in the U.S.A. and the world?
Hillary's participation in The Fellowship is alarming, and more alarming than anything that she has been mudslinging about Obama and Rev. Wright.
Hillary's participation in The Fellowship is not about "personal belief" and questioning her about The Fellowship is not a religious test as the Obama/Wright flap has been; by the way, such a religious test would be forbidden by the Article Six of the Constitution. No, The Fellowship (aka The Family) steps outside the bounds of religion into THEOCRACY. That's because The Fellowship has goals of directly influencing government and removing separation of church and state. We have every right -- indeed DUTY -- to question Hillary about her longtime work with an organization that holds theocratic intent, a clear intent that goes against our Constitution and its guarantees of religious freedom!
It frightens me to think that Hillary will get any further -- either in 2012 or maybe even sooner if she takes the nomination at the last minute (I suspect the recent illness of the head of the traditional Liberal Dems, Ted Kennedy, will stengthen Hillary's position in whipping up the DLC fervor), without ever answering to the American People about the goals she shares with The Fellowship.
As an introduction, the following is an excerpt from a Harper's Magazine article "Jesus Plus Nothing: Undercover with America's Secret Theocrats" by Jeffrey Sharlet, March 2003.
"....I ran into Doug Coe [leader of The Fellowship since 1969], who was tutoring Todd Tiahrt, a Republican congressman from Kansas. A friendly, plainspoken man with a bright, lazy smile, Coe has worked for the Family since 1959, soon after he graduated from college, and has led it since 1969.
Tiahrt was a short shot glass of a man, two parts flawless hair and one part teeth. He wanted to know the best way “for the Christian to win the race with the Muslim.” The Muslim, he said, has too many babies, while Americans kill too many of theirs.
Doug agreed this could be a problem. But he was more concerned that the focus on labels like “Christian” might get in the way of the congressman's prayers. Religion distracts people from Jesus, Doug said, and allows them to isolate Christ's will from their work in the world.
“People separate it out,” he warned Tiahrt. “'Oh, okay, I got religion, that's private.' As if Jesus doesn't know anything about building highways, or Social Security. We gotta take Jesus out of the religious wrapping.”
“All right, how do we do that?” Tiahrt asked.
“A covenant,” Doug answered. The congressman half-smiled, as if caught between confessing his ignorance and pretending he knew what Doug was talking about. “Like the Mafia,” Doug clarified. “Look at the strength of their bonds.” He made a fist and held it before Tiahrt's face. Tiahrt nodded, squinting. “See, for them it's honor,” Doug said. “For us, it's Jesus.”
Coe listed other men who had changed the world through the strength of the covenants they had forged with their “brothers”: “Look at Hitler,” he said. “Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Bin Laden.” The Family, of course, possessed a weapon those leaders lacked: the “total Jesus” of a brotherhood in Christ.
“That's what you get with a covenant,” said Coe. “Jesus plus nothing.” [END EXCERPT]
"The Fellowship's long-term goal is "a leadership led by God-leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by spirit." (excerpted from Mother Jones article ""Hillary's Prayer" Oct. 2007 issue)
The Fellowship's "leader" Doug Coe has targeted government leaders mostly and when that goal is applied to leaders in government the end product is the death of separation of church and state. It's a tidy formula: Justify a rightwing governmental position on the basis of rightwing religious morality.
Indeed, Hillary Clinton, a member ever since 1993, has ALREADY proved she is personally pursuing The Fellowship's goal: she has made clear that she will embrace American rightwing majority 'morality' over government-guaranteed individual rights. "Clinton suggests as much herself in her 1990 book, 'It Takes a Village', where she writes approvingly of religious groups' access to schools, lessons in Scripture, and 'virtue' making a return to the classroom." (excerpted from Mother Jones' article.) If teaching kids religion in public school is not a poster child for the Death of separation of church and state, I don't know what is!
The main assault on separation of church and state so far has been the millions of taxdollars diverted from government programs for health and human services and given to religious groups apparently without oversight. The Clintons were responsible for beginning this assault which Bush now has increased. If legislation promotes "conservative morality", Hillary Clinton appears to be a dependable promoter and supporter. And don't forget, Hillary is for prayer in public schools.
And what of liberal ideals of social justice? It will be replaced by "Conservative [so-called] morality" as was seen when Senator Hillary Clinton refused to support funding an anti-human trafficking measure unless it included a condemnation of prostitution. Social Justice replaced with prudishness, intolerance, and a prim stinginess.
Posted by nora on May 20, 2008 at 03:07 PM
Can you hear Me?
Listenin’ to the blues, empty’ feelin’ and cold rings hallow. True, makes it hard today to swallow and start the day anew. Tried steppin’ away for a few, away from the pink slip I got today. It didn’t matter that I was never late. I guess big business is that way. Or, that my girl’s birthday falls in May. Now, I’m headin’ back home to Eden. The bills and rent are way past due. I keep listenin’and singin’ to those good old blues as I tapped the floorboard on the 62 with my worn out shoes.
Then there’s a news alert on the am radio! So, I pause for the cause just for a moment…”Two polluting power plants in Hayward, California…” is spoken. It’s a shame for democracy because our community is like pawn or two-bit token. The energy Goliath says “Your system is broken”. The guilty will remain anonymous. We will use the name err…Dirt…err, I mean Global Energy of Canada, or Colorado, or is it Texas? Behind closed doors they say “Hayward is the strategic location nexus”. I say, Goliath is flexing its political capital and energy muscle on top of us. Or, is it in spite of us?
Just then, I pass the majestic, serene Hayward shoreline by the golden bay. Fall asleep at the wheel and thinking it might by your bay. It took a generation’s blood, sweat, tears and years to clean the pollution of the Second Great Industrial Revolution of the mid 1900’s. In Hayward today, far away policy and the sovereignty of the same nameless, more shameless, shift-changing conglomerate is made. On its website, no c.e.o is listed, don’t believe me check it. No way I could’ve missed it. Only a Denver address advanced, surrounded, and insulated by a pro-pollution California Energy Commission, and a nothing-much ado city council, who was easily swayed by which way the wind blew. It was they who rubber-stamped subtle changes to the land regulation use, and now are crying “boo-hoo”. Along with “blacked out” environmental reports, censored health studies, behind closed door hearings, Dirt bag, err I mean Global Energy has hijacked our citizenry with threats of a judicial override! My, my, so our kids, and us are forced to breathe carcinogens and carbon monoxide.
So, I keep listenin’ to the good old blues, guitar pickin’, side-steppin’. All wishing on a star in anticipation of the presidential elections and our new breath to choose. To see what separates the presidential contenders from the pretenders and ask who, anew, will have the leadership skills, power, tempered with just responsibility to lead and have adherence to the people, for the people, and by the people. What we really want is accountability to the principles of government in our democratic process. We want a government and an open process that shines a light on the voiceless and does not give into the whims and threats of big conglomerates. We want a promise of a democracy whose fire has flickered since the ancient times in the Acropolis and Pantheon. In return, we promise to protect the light of democracy from the threat of being extinguished. That, the famous words of Patrick Henry, “Give me Liberty or give me death” in 1775 is not just another catchy phrase.
So presidential candidates, where do you stand on an Environmental Plan? Will you hitch your wagon to the Dirt, err I mean Global Energy plan? Or will you be for the people, by the people of Hayward, Ca., the rest of the land, and draw a line in the sand?
On my way, away from the beautiful golden bay, I look up only to shiver, and quiver at the thought. I see the glistening clouds glide by. Below that, I see formations of Canadian geese and Mallard ducks flying over a soon to be reality of polluting-emitting smoke stacks and dump trucks. And, I’m still singin’ and hearin’ the Russell City blues.
Posted by MacTremor on May 20, 2008 at 03:28 PM
Top McCain Flip Flops: #4. Roe vs Wade:
In August 1999, McCain told the San Francisco Chronicle that he would "not support repeal of Roe vs Wade" because it would force women to undergo illegal operations. He has subsequently said that he was speaking about the need to change the "culture of America", and supports the repeal of Roe vs Wade.
Source: GovWatch on 2008 campaign: "Top Ten Flip-Flops" Feb 5, 2008
Posted by BlueinIdaho on May 20, 2008 at 03:32 PM
Harpo you are so disgusting you'd gag a maggot.
Posted by christopherblunt on May 20, 2008 at 03:36 PM
Posted by nora on May 20, 2008 at 03:07 PM
Just for grins and giggles I googled Doug Coe.
Very interesting series of sites all talking about this guy. I didn't read them all, I looked at several. Verrrry interesting!
Posted by Butte on May 20, 2008 at 03:37 PM
Pam, this particular troll is a perfect example of a 'compasionate conservative' - that is - a total and complete a$$ho**. I'm sure that this is his idea of 'Christian Charity' toward a family that has lost so much. While Sen. Kennedy may not be perfect, I remind you, troll, neither are any of the rest of us - that includes you!
Posted by marymac_memphis on May 20, 2008 at 03:37 PM
Posted by christopherblunt on May 20, 2008 at 03:36 PM
Harpo who?
Posted by BlueinIdaho on May 20, 2008 at 03:38 PM
After all, anyone who supports he abortion of innocent children as a convenient means of birth control cannot believe in God.
Posted by Harpo_has_decided_that_he_is_an_idiot on May 20, 2008
So, you are a religious man, and a basher of Democrats (The party that sticks up for the poor and the working class.)
Tell me, how can you believe in god when you support the torture of others, Tax breaks for the rich when there is 37 million Americans in poverty, an education policy directed at giving rich schools more money than poor schools, privatizing Social Security leaving millions hard working Americans out in the cold in their retirement years, policies that do not treat our troops when they come back from a war, a war that was unprovoked, unethical, and waged to support the interest of the rich?
If you believe in god then why do you oppose removing profit from our health care system, especially profits from those that have nothing to do with the health or the care of the sick or injured?
Why do you oppose efforts to ensure our earth is healthy and clean for future generations. Why do you oppose raising the minimum wage to help those that are struggling? Why do you oppose any gun legislation that would reduce violence in urban areas?
There are literally thousands of questions I could ask you that are in direct conflict with most religous teachings which is supported by the right wing of today.
Bottom line, If you believe in God, why do you believe so strongly in oppression?
Posted by TMH on May 20, 2008 at 03:48 PM
Our Republican of the Week is Francisco Medina, the wife of Texas Supreme Court justice David Medina. She's on trial for burning their house down and doing damage to two neighbor's houses. Seems these Republicans got caught in the mortgage crisis. She's accused of doing something about it. In the process, the Medinas magaged to bring down Houston Republican D.A. Chuck Rosenthal who suppressed evidence and lied to a grand jury to protect these fellow Republicans. Mrs. Medina faces life in prison on 2 of the 3 charges.
Posted by radioleft on May 20, 2008 at 03:49 PM
My mistake - must have been having a daymare.
Posted by christopherblunt on May 20, 2008 at 03:50 PM
Interesting, but I don't think it's going to change things...
Posted by margotb822 on May 20, 2008 at 03:55 PM
Posted by nora on May 20, 2008 at 03:07 PM
He is NOT her life-long pastor. He is Washington's pastor. She was invited to go there, as a guest. It is a non-partisan thing. This non-partisan pastor of Washington is no Coe or Rev. Wright. Why do you slander Hillary to defend Barack? That is pathetic.
Posted by Big_Yellow_Dog on May 20, 2008 at 03:57 PM
Why do you oppose any gun legislation that would reduce violence in urban areas?
What legislation would that be? Most large cities, such as Washington DC and Chicago, have extremely restrictive gun laws. Violence is up, not down, from similar cities who do not have such restrictive bans.
So what laws are you referring to?
Posted by Tawanna_LaShond on May 20, 2008 at 04:01 PM
Posted by nora on May 20, 2008 at 03:07 PM
Coe is NOT her life-long pastor. Coe is Washington's pastor. She was invited to go there, as a guest. It is a non-partisan thing. This non-partisan pastor of Washington is no Hagee or Rev. Wright. Why do you slander Hillary to defend Barack? That is pathetic.
Iran needs to know they will be crushed IF they do anything. And because she said that MANY moderates and progressives in Iran are saying "we've got to get rid of this nut case."
Posted by Big_Yellow_Dog on May 20, 2008 at 04:04 PM
Repost:
Flag Pins: They don't go far enough
One thing about Flag pins, you can always take them off.
This issue bares a striking resemblance to Dr. Suess' "The Sneeches." The only socially acceptable sneeches are the sneeches with 'Stars on Thars' Those without are not allowed the campfire to raise their 'goodfellow sticks.' By contrast the only patriotic politicians are those with 'flag pins on thars.'
What do issues and policies matter anyways? I will only vote for those politicians that show their true patriotism by getting their belly tattoo'd with a big Star. That way we can really tell the true patriots from those that hate America.
So come on Republicans, you too Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Hannity. You better hurry up and stand in line at your local tattoo parlor. Big Stars on your Belly is the only way we can tell the true Patriots.
We need to push this issue. We can not rest until every Patriotic Republican has a 'Star on Thars.'
Posted by TMH on May 20, 2008 at 04:07 PM
Posted by TMH on May 20, 2008 at 04:07 PM
Quick! Watch for the next video from the Tennessee GOP! All those ignorant rednecks who slammed Mrs. Obama will probably take this seriously!
LOL
(You have to laugh because if you take the TN GOP seriously, well ... you'd just break down and sob!)
Posted by marymac_memphis on May 20, 2008 at 04:10 PM
Interesting, but I don't think it's going to change things...
House passes bill to sue OPEC over oil prices
Posted by margotb822 on May 20, 2008 at 03:55 PM
At least they are doing something. A Republican Congress would just say we just need to open ANWAR to solve the problem.
Posted by Big_Yellow_Dog on May 20, 2008 at 04:12 PM
May 19, 2008 LIEBERMAN CALLS ON GOOGLE TO TAKE DOWN TERRORIST CONTENTYouTube Videos Are Produced by Al Qaeda and Other Terror Organizations; Videos Show Attacks on U.S. Soldiers, Civilians
WASHINGTON – Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Chairman Joe Lieberman, ID-Conn., Monday called on Google to remove Internet video content produced by terrorist organizations such as Al-Qaeda. The videos – readily available on YouTube –show assassinations, deaths of U.S. soldiers and civilians, weapons training, incendiary speeches by al-Qaeda leadership, and other material intended to encourage violence against the West.The videos are branded with Al-Qaeda logos – a practice detailed in a recent bipartisan Committee staff report entitled “Violent Islamist Extremism, the Internet, and the Homegrown Terrorist Threat.” These production logos are easily recognizable, making it easy for Google to remove them from its Internet sites. Lieberman called on Google to enforce its own community standards against videos that show gratuitous violence or people getting “hurt, attacked, or humiliated.”
“Islamist terrorist organizations use YouTube to disseminate their propaganda, enlist followers, and provide weapons training,” the Senator said in his letter. “YouTube also, unwittingly, permits Islamist terrorist groups to maintain an active, pervasive, and amplified voice, despite military setbacks or successful operations by the law enforcement and intelligence communities…
“Protecting our citizens from terrorist attacks is a top priority for our government. The private sector can help us do that. By taking action to curtail the use of YouTube to disseminate the goals and methods of those who wish to kill innocent civilians, Google will make a singularly important contribution to this important national effort.”
Following is a copy of the letter:
http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fuseaction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=8093d5b2-c882-4d12-883d-5c670d43d269&Month=5&Year=2008&Affiliation=C
That is a slippery slope you're headed down, Senator. I have a better idea. When a video or website is deemed to be from Al-Qaeda, or some other terrorist organization, leave it up and track who comes to it. Only a terrorist or terrorist sympathizer would watch something like that more than once. Really, Senator Lieberman (I-CT), use your head for something other than a McCain suppository.
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama08 on May 20, 2008 at 04:17 PM
Posted by Tawanna_LaShond on May 20, 2008 at 04:01 PM
It was aimed at Harpo_The_Idiotic. Maybe poor words but the Right wing resists all attempts at responsible gun ownership and would be 'ok' with eveyone carrying around a Bazooka and having a missle silo in their back yard. They oppose semi or full automatic gun bans, any sort of waiting period or any attempt to make Americans or our police force more safe.
Posted by TMH on May 20, 2008 at 04:19 PM
Posted by marymac_memphis on May 20, 2008 at 04:10 PM
LMAO... That is my point. If they love America soooo much, why do they not have Stars tattoo'd on their Bellies. Anyone can put on or take off a flag pin, true patriots have perminent stars.
I don't think these TN GOP are true Patriots.
WHERE ARE YOUR STARS!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by TMH on May 20, 2008 at 04:27 PM
sad about senator kennedy. over the years he could be counted on more than any other senator to take a left wing position on most any issue...choice, integration, health care, environment and on and on...hopefully his story will be one of miraculous recovery.
Posted by gregg on May 20, 2008 at 04:32 PM
Really, Senator Lieberman (I-CT), use your head for something other than a McCain suppository.
Posted by BobVADemHawk-Obama08 on May 20, 2008 at 04:17 PM
Republicans have already tried to eliminate the separation of church and state by telling Federal Judges to make rulings based on the word of religion as opposed to the letter of the law, why not take away free speech? Are they trying to monitar who reads which books yet? Give those authoritarian neo-conservatives time. Lieberman = Liarman. (I can't help but wonder what rove has photos of Liarman doing?!?)
On that note, Pam - when there is a Democratic challenger for that seat in the Senate, let me know - I want to donate to that campaign!
Posted by marymac_memphis on May 20, 2008 at 04:32 PM
hopefully his story will be one of miraculous recovery.
Posted by gregg on May 20, 2008 at 04:32 PM
I pray for the same thing. Should Sen. Kennedy decide to focus all of his considerable energies on defeating this illness and; therefore, step down from his post in the Senate, I would love to see Caroline K. Schlossberg (??Spelling), who has over the past couple of years taken a more visable role in Democratic politics, be considered by Gov. Patrick to fill her uncle's seat. I know little about Mass. politics; but, I think she would be great.
Posted by marymac_memphis on May 20, 2008 at 04:37 PM
Posted by Big_Yellow_Dog on May 20, 2008 at 04:12 PM
I just think we need to be suing the American oil oligarchy, not OPEC. If anything, they are guilty of disrupting world trade and threatening global economic stability.
Posted by margotb822 on May 20, 2008 at 04:41 PM
With McCain saying we never talk to our enemies like Iran, Cuba, and others, who are opposed to U.S. Well, let's see I remember a President called Nixon who while fight a Vietnam War that was sided with Red China help, went to the enemy camp of that nation called (Red) China to discuss relations.
Posted by YoungPoet on May 20, 2008 at 04:45 PM
Sen. Kennedy's illness serves Hillary doesn't it?
The senior senator would have been a force for holding the line against Hillary Clinton's machinations. Who will take his place? If that individual is not strong enough to rope in Hillary's insane mathematics, the rabid DLCers will overwhelm the Dem Convention this summer....
Senator Kennedy's illness is not only a personal tragedy but could become a national tragedy as well.
Posted by nora on May 20, 2008 at 04:49 PM
Posted by TMH on May 20, 2008 at 04:19 PM
Nah, you chose your words correctly. Legislation controlling the sale of guns DOES reduce the incidence of death by violent crime. Between 1990 and 1998, 40 lives were saved each year in the state of Maryland due to the passage of effective gun control legislation.
Gun control does not equal banning guns. I have at least 12 guns in my household.
Posted by BlueinIdaho on May 20, 2008 at 04:51 PM
Posted by YoungPoet on May 20, 2008 at 04:45 PM
If McCain has the policy of only talking to our freinds he will be in a room by himself after Bush gets done with his distructive diplomacy practices.
Maybe there is a poem in there for you.
Posted by TMH on May 20, 2008 at 04:54 PM
Posted by TMH on May 20, 2008 at 04:19 PM
Most hunters would oppose semi-automatic gun bans, and I've got to agree with them.
There are many, in fact most, legitimate gun owners who have semi-automatic weapons aka auto-loaders. Those weapons are NOT the problem.
A lot of the problem, is what what the culture and the media is teaching kids about guns. The media can't wait to glorify some school shooter by splashing them all over the TV screens for days on end. A lot of these gun ban advocates will protest something like the Eddie Eagle program being taught in schools, but will buy their kids first-person-shooter computer games, or let the watch movies or TV where the "heroes" blow everybody away as a means of solving problems, but won't teach their kids about how to solve problems correctly, or to think about other people. That's just pure and simple hypocrisy.
From what I've seen, gun banning putting a band-aid on a small pox victim, and saying you've cured the problem.
The criminals bring guns in along with the drugs, or they'll use other weapons like fists, clubs, knives, or vehicles.
What about those two kids who stomped that homeless vet to death in Missoula? A gun ban sure wouldn't have helped him any.
We have problems in this country, but there are no easy answers, and doing something bogus instead of attacking the core problem is not the answer.
Posted by Butte on May 20, 2008 at 04:58 PM
i have't been here much lately but is nora a troll?
anyhow if what we are really about is winning the white house and extending our leads in the congress as much as possible then i believe there is no stronger ticket than obama/hillary....it would encompass so many cohorts of voters the pelicans would be lost in the wilderness for years and years...on the other hand if the party is looking to possibly squeek out a narrow victory than obama or hillary without the other is the way to go.....and maybe the way to go to hell in a hand basket. me i want to win and win as big as possible so we can structure the supreme court to be progressive for decades and institute national health care, save choice, negotiate with other countries as adults, protect the environment, make progress with stem cell research, etc, etc....
Posted by gregg on May 20, 2008 at 05:10 PM
Hillary is a Rupert Murdoch Gal.
It shows more all the time.
So, she quotes Fox, appears on Fox, elevates Rove with crediting his view that her campaign is viable to beat McCain, and keeps spending herself into campaign debt. With her reliance on Fox, it seems Hillary is assured by Murdoch that her campaign debt will be paid down later somehow....
Hillary scares me more every day.
»
Posted by nora on May 20, 2008 at 05:12 PM
Posted by margotb822 on May 20, 2008 at 04:41 PM
Amen!
Suing OPEC is about dumb. The oil industry in this country needs a hard look, along the lines of price fixing and monopolistic practices.
Posted by Butte on May 20, 2008 at 05:23 PM
Idaho and Butte,
We all live in the same world here in God's Country. Probably just about everyone we know are hunters and we grew up with full knowledge of guns and were taught gun safety. Most of them would rather have semi-automatic rifles. But the issues in Butte, Montana or Idaho are not the issues in LA and NY.
I really wasn't trying to bring up gun safety but calling out a moron. You both have a good point though. Controlling the sale of guns, especially places like gun shows is key.
I think they should be treated like vehicles where everyone needs to take a course and pass a test to gain a license to operate a firearm. But I am an extremist.lol.
And I agree with the glorification of violence such as Columbine and Virginia Tech, where lunitics are looking for fame. But I haven't totally bought into the idea of violence on TV or in video games causes violence.
The majority of people, even kids, can keep fantasy and reality separate, but it is the extreme few that need to be recognized early on before they commit violent acts.
I promote responsible gun ownership.
Posted by TMH on May 20, 2008 at 05:25 PM
Butte/Blue:
Did I read somewhere that most murders and assaults are committed with kitchen knives? Is that actually true?
Posted by marymac_memphis on May 20, 2008 at 05:26 PM
me i want to win and win as big as possible so we can structure the supreme court to be progressive for decades and institute national health care, save choice, negotiate with other countries as adults, protect the environment, make progress with stem cell research, etc, etc....
Posted by gregg on May 20, 2008 at 05:10 PM
Me too! Whether Sen. Clinton is the VEEP candidate or remains in the Senate, she is a valuable and important member of the Democratic party and we will need her to accomplish the above goals.
Posted by marymac_memphis on May 20, 2008 at 05:32 PM
ohio, penn, florida, west virginia....defeat scares me more and more every day....i know we could pick up colorado, new mexico, virginia, north carolina, new mexico with obama as the presidential candidate but why take chances? with obama/hillary we might take them all in a landslide....and to think hillary is somehow the wicked witch of the east in relation to the other politicians in this game is naivte to the max....all these folks have sold at least part of their souls to the devil long ago, that is how they got to where they are....the real deal is we want the most liberal and winable pair of sell outs we can get and obama/hillary is it, wake up!
Posted by gregg on May 20, 2008 at 05:49 PM
Someone should be asking McCan't about this!!!!!
This story is on CNN's web site:
Mom forced to live in car with dogs
*Mother of three grown children says, "This is my life in this car right now"
*Santa Barbara, California, allows homeless to sleep in cars in 12 parking lots
*Affluent city has seen a rise in homelessness during California's housing crisis
*Advocate: "It's just amazing the people that are becoming homeless"
I wonder what she would say if McCan't told this woman that he thought that she was better off today than she was eight years ago.
Posted by TexasGal on May 20, 2008 at 05:58 PM
I wonder what she would say if McCan't told this woman that he thought that she was better off today than she was eight years ago.
Posted by TexasGal on May 20, 2008 at 05:58 PM
It wouldn't matter. His masters (neo-cons like Scaife, Melon, Coors) tell him (via rove) what to hear and what to say. He'd just ignore her or call her what he called his wife that time!
Posted by marymac_memphis on May 20, 2008 at 06:04 PM
i have't been here much lately...
Posted by gregg on May 20, 2008 at 05:10 PM
...and, we've all been meaning to speak to you about that.
Posted by BlueinIdaho on May 20, 2008 at 06:17 PM
According to a senior government official…”There exists a database of Americans, who, often for the slightest and most trivial reason, are considered unfriendly, and who, in a time of panic, might be incarcerated. The database can identify and locate perceived ‘enemies of the state’ almost instantaneously.” … One knowledgeable source claims that 8 million Americans are now listed in Main Core as potentially suspect. In the event of a national emergency, these people could be subject to everything from heightened surveillance and tracking to direct questioning and possibly even detention.
Posted by BlueinIdaho on May 20, 2008 at 06:19 PM
Mark McKinnon, the lead media consultant for Sen. John McCain's (Ariz.) presidential bid, is stepping down from that role -- making good on a pledge he made last year not to work against Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.) in the fall campaign.McKinnon confirmed his decision to The Fix this afternoon. "I'll be transitioning, shifting position from linebacker to head cheerleader," said the always-colorful McKinnon. He added that he would continued to be a "friend and fan" to the campaign.
McKinnon, a former Democrat, played a central role in Gov. George W. Bush's 2000 campaign and the Bush-Cheney reelection four years later. He was part of a large contingent of Bush operatives to make the transition to McCain in late 2006 and early 2007, but was one of only a handful who stuck with the Arizona senator after his campaign's implosion last summer.
That same summer, McKinnon told Cox Newspapers that if Obama was the Democratic nominee, he would not play an active role in McCain's effort to defeat the Illinois senator.
"I just don't want to work against an Obama candidacy," McKinnon told Cox Washington bureau chief Ken Herman; electing Obama, he added, "would send a great message to the country and the world." McKinnon said at the time he would vote for McCain.
Posted by Veneita on May 20, 2008 at 06:19 PM
james baker on appeasement
Posted by Veneita on May 20, 2008 at 06:40 PM
I WISH I COULD APOLOGIZE FOR MY POST OF SUNDAY NIGHT, BUT I CAN'T....FOR I WAS TRYING TO MAKE SURE YOU ALL REALIZE WHAT A HARD ROAD FIGHTING RACISM LIES AHEAD FOR US UNTIL NOVEMBER, A ROAD OF OUR OWN MAKING IN THE PRIMARIES!
So many Democrats in the Northeast have made comments about Obama as a black man in the White House before entering the voting booth that we can't hisde the real issue or race behind the Wright speeches or Obama's missing American flag lapel pin....And yet, these SAME Democrats who were so ready to play the "white vote" card have the audacity to bring up Rev. Wright's anti-white and Michelle's exasperation with whites statements.
WHERE WERE THEY WRONG? ARE WE NOT A COUNTRY THAT SIMPLY REACTS TO ONE OR TWO PHENOTIPIC TRAITS AS IF CLUES TO THE WORTH OF A MAN AND RUNS WITH THEM?
America used to be a nation where every parent hoped his/her child could get to college to become better educated and do something with his/her life. The reson was obvious: US public schools are 12 lost years (in NJ a highschool grad sued because they gave him a diploma even though he could neither read nor write). As more people go to college, because pre-college became no better, colleges declined. Higher Education became a business, like cruise lines. Neither the quality of professors nor the quality of students mattered anymore. As Nut Gingrich rightly pointed out, tuition no longer covered education but lots of "fun things" and so got higher and higher.
Now Americans have not yet learned to overcome their prejudices through knowledge; they no longer seek to form smart questions to which to devote themselves seeking answers but rather seek vapid gingles that sell usseless things to people or become rock or rap hits. Bush encouraged an economy for empty hustlers and as a result he ran the Ship of State aground.
But Bush is not the cause, he is a symptom of what ails America. Curiosity and disciplined search for knowlege have been replaced with easy pseudo-truths and prejudices. As EJ Dioonne so brilliantly diagnosed: AMERICA IS ON A LONG VACATION FROM COMPLEXITY.
But it is worse. Rather than recognize that our prejudices were wrong, we allow them to be cemented in fear and then even harder in hate-- secret hate. As I wrote, Bill Clinton liberated us from our racial prejudices about welfare, but we still hate "niggers." And he still made sure to exploit that in the primaries election against Obama
Oh, we hid it well as we isolated the "others." But now that a black man is runnig for the presidency, a lot of Democrats, when all alone anonymously in the voting booths, said to themselves: I DON'T WANT A NIGGER IN THE WHITE HOUSE. And that will be the hidden theme of the Republican campaign against Obama as it was in the Senate Campaign against Ford in Tennesee.
Don't get me wrong. I am for Obama, NOT because he is black but because he is such a wonderful candidate. Yet, his race was made an issue in the Democratic primaries before it has ever gotten to be made one by the Republicans in the race against the McCain. And so, it is the DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES CAMPAIGN RHETORIC that will be used against Obama by the Rpublicans, unlike in the Republican campaign against Ford where they had to make up their own.
THAT IS THE TRAGEDY. And the sooner we confront it, the sooner we can get past it.
THE ISSUE IS *NOT* REVEREND WRIGHT...
THE ISSUE IS *NOT* MICHELLE'S OCCAISIONAL WORDS OF EXASPERATRION...
THE ISSUE IS *NOT* ANYTHING OBAMA MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE SAID...
The issue is that McCain is politically a corpse and the only way he can win for a dead party is by turning people against Obama because of his race.
Obama is such an amazing man that the only thing they've got to use is his color....And the only reason they've got it is because it was used against him in the primaries by his fellow Democrats.
IF ANY OF YOU WERE OUTRAGED WITH WHAT I SAID IN MY POST THE OTHER DAY, I ASK YOU POINT BLANK:
WHY WERE YOU NOT UPSET WITH IT WHEN MADE AN ISSUE IN THE PRIMARIES?
I don't mind people being racists. A lot are, on both sides of the race divide. It is stupid and to anyone who studies genetics unsound, for we are all with "black roots" and all blacks have "white genes" in them.
BUT THE REAL ISSUE IS HOW CONVENIENTLY IT WAS USED SO RECENTLY AND HOW CONVINIENTLY ITS USE IN THE PRIMARIES WILL BE SWEPT UNDER THE RUG IN THE ELECTION AND DISREGARDED WHEN THE OUTCOME OF THAT INVOKED RACISM CONFRONTS US.
We MUST recognize that the Democrat Party was at one time the party of the racist Rednecks and must prepare to confront that fact by appealing to the NEXT generation of Americans with the courage to overcome the comfy stereotypes of their parents that the Clintons so recklessly exploited.
HILLARY CANNOT PRETEND THAT SHE DID NOT *CHOOSE* TO INVOKE "WHITE VOTERS." SHE DID-- OVER AND OVER AGAIN. AND IF SHE IS NOT REALLY A RACIST, SHE MUST NOW MAKE AMMENDS BY FIGHTING THE VERY RACISM SHE TRIED TO EXPLOIT.
I supported her candidacy because I thought America was too ill, too weak, after 8 years of Rovian "wedging." I thought we need a president who, like a devoted mom, will stand by us to nurse us from our fear-->hate disease that 9/11 and Bush inflicted on us.
LET US RECALL THAT IT WAS NOT TOO LONG AGO THAT THE MOST POPULAR PRESUMTIVE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT WAS A BLACK MAN, GENERAL COLIN POWELL....So Americans CAN overcome their racist tendencies....But first they must face them....As a party, DEMOCRATS MUST FACE THEIRS BECAUSE IT MANIFESTED IN THE PRIMARIES. We must, therefore, overcome them by mobilizing all the young and courageous Americans who remember that the guy next to them in a foxhole was a black-skinned man in the same green uniform.
So let's not accept someone who doubts Obama's patriotism because he didn't wear an American Flag pin. Let's overcome that person's hidden racism with the next generation of Americans-- possibly that person's own children-- by working harder than ever at grassroots level NOW--NOT LATER-- FOR LATER MAY BE TOO LATE. The anti-racist campaign, to make up for the racist primaries, MUST START TODAY, not after Labor Day.
We must change all racists or compensate for them with silent non-voters by turning them into voters. Normally around 50% of eligible voters vote. If the proportion that vote in this election stays at 50%, Obama loses. But if we get 75% of Americans to vote through grassroots hard work that begins TODAY, the *NEW* 25% we get to vote will NOT be racists but brave young Americans ready to write a new page in American history by electing Obama.
THIS IS OUR MAKE OR DIE CHANCE. WE CAN'T BE LAZY, WE CAN'T BE PATIENT. WE MUST OVERCOME THE MANY DEMOCRATS WHO DON'T WANT A "NIGGER" IN THE *WHITE* HOUSE WITH THE AMERICANS OF TOMORROW WHO WANT AMERICA SAVED FROM BUSHIT BY BARAK OBAMA.
Posted by Danielet on May 20, 2008 at 06:47 PM
Dearest Democrats,
The news networks are attempting to portray Clinton supporter as anti-Obama and Obama supporters as anti-Clinton.
Let me assure all of you, I like both the candidates, Obama and Clinton. …just like one candidate a little more that the other. …there is one thing certain about all this (and the numbers of voter turn out will attest too); we do not like republicans!!
If there were truly animosity towards either one of the Democratic Candidates the voter turn-out would not be as large as they were.
To all those nit-picking talking heads, get a life! The numbers do not reflect what you are stating. The overwhelming turn-out is because we don’t like McCain, or Bush and Republicans! If 20% to 30% of those exit polled people tell you they are Obama supporter and will not support Clinton; well I knew from the reich wing blogs there were going to be Bradley-Effects voters and those people are it!! When the talking heads point to the 20% to 30% Clinton supporter stating they will not vote for Obama; well those are those x-tian reich pranksters that were not going to vote for either democratic candidate in the general election anyways. They were just muckrackers attempting to deceive the American public.
To all those repugnant talking heads who got Bradley-Effects voters to cast a false vote for the Democratic candidate, I hope you know that is considered “Bearing False Witness”. The punishment in the New and Old Testament for people bearing false witness is death by stoning, …may your soul burn in hell!! Remember the gravity of sin for Bearing False Witness is more grave than Abortion or being gay. To discover the punishment for Abortion and being gay one must redefine what is written in the bible and extrapolate the punishments. …but “Bearing False Witness” has no ambiguity, in the New or Old Testament; the punishment from the Lord is banishment and stoning till death is highly recommended!!
Concerned with the Liars!
Posted by HybridFuel on May 20, 2008 at 06:48 PM
I just hate it when the trolls come in here and start blabbering on about their families...WTMI.
Posted by BlueinIdaho on May 20, 2008 at 06:51 PM
Posted by HybridFuel on May 20, 2008 at 06:48 PM
Thank you for a great post. I have been trying to get all good Democrats to remember that, while having a Democratic President in the White House is very important, having 'bullet-proof' majorities in both houses of Congress is equally imporant to our goals of getting legislation passed that benefits the majority of Americans, not just the wealthiest 1%! To that end, all of the Democratic Senate Seats are important, especially seats in New York and Illinois. So, no matter who makes up the Democratic ticket, let's all keep our eyes of the prize!
Posted by marymac_memphis on May 20, 2008 at 07:08 PM
United Colors of the Democratic Party for a Better America!
Barack Obama - Hillary Clinton
John Edwards
Bill Richardson
Joe Biden
Chris Dodd
Dennis Kucinich
Boy, what I would give to see the final 7 unite the Democratic party!!???!!
Any one of these people would be better than a republican!!
Remember giving up a little for anyone of our Democratic Candidate is still miles ahead of a republican candidate!!
Please unite and let's put together a dream team with all the Democratic Candidates.
Let's show the world we know how to unite our people in United States of America!
Let's set the example with the Democratic Party!
Tell me you can feel the wave, tell me you can feel the win, tell me we have champions among our warriors, tell me they are our voice when we cannot speak, tell me we have the candidates that can represent all.
Make a list of those things you like and dislike about any of the Democratic Candidates. Then make a list of those things you like and dislike about the Republican Candidate. Tell me honestly if you can live with that list!!
United we can overcome!
United we can show by example!
United we have a huge deep bench of great men and women just waiting to prove what it means to be an American!
United we can accomplish what no-one else can!
United Colors of the Democratic Party for a better America!!
Posted by HybridFuel on May 20, 2008 at 07:13 PM
Posted by Danielet on May 20, 2008 at 06:47 PM
_____________________________________
I understand your post, and I understood your previous post,
felt like I wanted to address your comments
I agree that most of America---especially we dems/liberals REALLY have not concept of the racism that continues in this country. I know I am getting my eyes opened wide by monitoring other sites.
The most obvious is the Clinton supporters, who say they will MAKE SURE OBAMA DOESN'T WIN. I don't even think Hillary, if she wanted to, could change their minds.
Here is the conclusion I have come to.
I disagree that WE will be able to do anything about this-----it has been ingrained in their DNA.
That doesn't mean that I won't continue to RESPECTFULLY/BLANTANTLY point it out, by pointing out that it was the Black Vote that helped get Billary elected, twice, or depending on the situation.
I don't think it will matter, and getting upset just gives them the energy. I refuse to do that.
The ONLY person who can bring maybe SOME OF THEM over will be Barack Obama. Everywhere he has gone, and everywhere the PEOPLE have gotten to know him, he has soared. Some of the racists, especially the younger ones, actually want to be a part of this movement, and Barack Obama will be speaking to them, and they may vote secretly for him.
You have to trust Barack.
I have found that the hate coming from the Hillary supporters are mostly at Michelle. This confused me for some time because she is a WOMAN.
Well, guess what? Barack is half white. Michelle is not.
I trust Barack.
I trust Barack on every level of how he instinctively handles himself and others, more than I think I have ever trusted any politician.
Please trust Barack to bring over the ones that can be brought over, and there is nothing anyone can do about the rest who will vote against ALL THEIR BEST INTERESTS no matter what
to vote against a negro.
Please breath, work hard to support Barack and represent him, the way he represents himself----vibrating at a very high level, always taking the high road, and
send lots of love and light to the Obama's,
and TRUST HIM.
Posted by highserenity on May 20, 2008 at 07:20 PM
New open thread!
Posted by MichaelLink on May 20, 2008 at 07:37 PM
D____Cactus,
Did you just fall out of your family tree and landed on your head?
Posted by HybridFuel on May 20, 2008 at 07:43 PM
lamebrain McSame - running on a platform to deny special interests? Only the ones that don't benefit him!
McCain Action Helped Arizona Developer: Report
Reuters
Saturday 16 May 2008
Washington - Presumptive Republican presidential candidate John McCain secured millions in federal funds for a land acquisition program that provided a windfall for an Arizona developer whose executives were major campaign donors, according to a USA Today report.
McCain, an Arizona senator, inserted $14.3 million in a 2003 defense bill to buy land around Luke Air Force Base in Glendale, Arizona, in a provision sought by SunCor Development, the largest of 50 landowners near the base, the newspaper reported on its Web site Thursday, citing public records.
Upset with a state law that restricted development around the base, SunCor representatives met with McCain's staff to lobby for funding, USA Today reported, citing the company's president at the time, John Ogden.
The Air Force later paid SunCor $3 million for 122 acres near the base - three times its assessed value and twice the military's estimated value, the newspaper said.
USA Today said its analysis of campaign finance data compiled by the nonpartisan CQ MoneyLine shows that McCain's campaigns have received $224,000 since 1998 from donors connected to SunCor's parent company Pinnacle West, including $104,100 for his current presidential run.
Two current and one retired Pinnacle executives are fundraisers for McCain's presidential campaign.
McCain has made fighting special interest projects on Capitol Hill a centerpiece of his White House bid.
McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers told the newspaper the senator's ties to SunCor had nothing to do with his support for the base project.
Rogers said the Air Force had a legitimate need for the land and asked for money to buy it in a March 2002 budget planning document, USA Today reported.
Asked about the newspaper's report, Rogers told Reuters: "This is absurd."
"This project was requested by the Air Force and supported by virtually everyone in AZ (Arizona) politics - Governor Napolitano, the entire congressional delegation, etc. - but that's not even mentioned in this story. It's shameful," Rogers said in an email.
Posted by marymac_memphis on May 20, 2008 at 07:46 PM
President Ahole was being interviewed when the interviewer asked him point blank if he was going to bomb Iran. The POS smiled and denied that he was planning to bomb Iran.
If President Ahole attacks Iran, the American people will rise up and kick his ass out of office. They will also kick cheney's fat ass out of office. they will both be sent to the Hague for trial. The
American people are tired of this bushit. Did you notice that the price of oil shot out of sight with the report that bush was going to attack Iran. bush is an irresponsible POS.
Posted by Johne on May 20, 2008 at 07:46 PM
Are all republicans asshole war mongers? We just have to put a stop to the U.S. being the schoolyard bully in the world. I for one am sick of this crap.
richard lugar is a neocon ahole and wants us to challenge Russia over ex-Soviet Georgia
Posted by Johne on May 20, 2008 at 07:58 PM
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