Evening Open Thread
Chat away...
Comments (70) «
Hopefully mclame will lose his cool when he hears this olberman piece.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH
Posted by SandyH on August 18, 2008 at 06:03 PM Don't blame us if the Cubs find a way to lose. We didn't have anything to do with that goat curse or the black cat. You'll have to flub this up all on your own.
:)
Posted by Barbi on August 18, 2008 at 07:34 PM G' night, good {{Dems}}.
Goodnight, Barbi
Posted by Barbi on August 18, 2008 at 07:14 PM
Deployed Troops Donate to Obama 6-1 Over McCain
I don't think this has as much to do with Obama and McCain as it does with continuing the current Bush course, or changing it. And our troops, who don't have a whole lot of money to give, are voting right now with their wallets.
Nice post, Barbi.
The Great American Yard Sale.
Belgian-Brazilian InBev will soon own the all-American brewer of Budweiser.
...
The ruling Busch family ultimately faced up to the fact that the U.S. is for sale, and foreigners are buying. It's everything from the St.-Tropez crowd buying up condos in Palm Beach, Fla., to Asian and Middle Eastern governments sinking billions into U.S. banks to Europeans taking over U.S. pharmaceutical and infrastructure companies. Even tourists are busy using their euros and pounds to snap up iPhones, jeans, shoes and everything else they can stuff into the empty suitcases they carry along for just that purpose, damn them.
CHStuart: a "litany of name calling"??
Well, there's another instance where you are wrong!
WorkingManOutWest at 10:19 PM
Mean?? You haven't been around these parts very much, have you?
Sally, Frosty, (alias alias, alias) Steve is a maladjusted troll that has been pestering this Democratic site with his lunatic moon-bat nonsense for years.
Your problem?
Hey CHStuart I responded to your post regarding why companies can't pay taxes on the afternoon thread, don't miss it.
Hey, Cowboy. LTNS
Thank you, Dors. If you want to check it out, I've been trying to point out how much the neo-con party of stupid does not support the troops quite often over at ;-) the ranch, too.
I've been in and out this evening. (Felt like playing a little whack-a-troll.)
Johne, I also caught Keith's "special comment" this evening. It was great. He is great!
newsjunkie,
The pundits are always complaining about the income tax and how the Democrats are going to raise everytone's taxes.
What they fail to mention is that the federal income tax is a graduated tax. The pundits always make it sound like say for instance they are in the 35% bracket. There tax isn't a flat 35%. It comes out about 15% if you multiply the income by 15% and compare that with the tax charts it comes out about the same.
They either distort the facts, don't know what they are talking about or they lie.
OMG, Huffington post is reporting that Cindy, bleach blond bimbo, McCain't keeps saying and said on larry king last month that she was an only child. Problem is her half sister, whom they share the same father constantly feels like a non person when she says this. Also, their father the beer distributor worth 100 million left his entire fortune to Cindy and only $10,000 to his other child. Family Values Republican Style.
There should be their. My fingers are going faster than my elderly brain.
Posted by WorkingManOutWest on August 18, 2008 at 10:19 PM Hi Barbi. You always this mean to people on the blog?
Let it rest, Sally. I've held up a mirror to let others know what they look like, just as you have, (either by your purposeful intent or by God's cryptic design - I'm not sure which) but you've got a chance here to begin from a clean slate.
Write what you will.
Ha ha ha ha:
For his part, Republican rival John McCain is seriously considering naming his running mate between the end of the Democratic convention Aug. 28 and the Sept. 1 start of the GOP convention in hopes of stunting any uptick in polls for Obama. McCain has at least three large rallies planned in top battlegrounds Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan, before the Republican gathering in St. Paul, Minn.
His top contenders are said to include Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney. Less traditional choices mentioned include former Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Ridge, an abortion-rights supporter, and Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman, the Democratic vice-presidential prick in 2000 who now is an independent.
Anheuser-Bush is just another example of our resources being sold over seas.
We have lost a great deal of manufacturing capability over the recent decades. It's not just our dependence on foreign oil that is damaging our national integrity and our economy. It is also the loss of our manufacturing capabilities. We can no longer depend on our manufacturers to supply us the way they did during WWII because they are no longer there.
What is ironic is that we have even lost the company that manufactured the pen that signed the treaty to Japan. The Sheaffer Pen company was sold to BIC, a Japanese company, several years ago. This year they closed the plant in Iowa after moving the machinery overseas. It's not a big deal in itself, unless you once worked for Sheaffer's, or you live in the town that is dying because those jobs left. But it is indicative of what is happening in this country.
My Dad always said, "Tools are an investiment."
Tools helped get him through the Depression. He didn't need to hire anyone to fix things around the home, and he could pick up s few dollars here and there fixing other people's things. He also said "Don't sell your tools."
The manufacturing plants were the tools of this country and we have impoverished ourselves by allowing them to be sold off.
What are we going to do about it?
Posted by Barbi on August 18, 2008 at 11:24 PM Hey, Cowboy. LTNS
Busy time here - emptying the nest so we can sell it and use the proceeds to hitch-hike down to South American and live on the beech.
-- not really - we'll rent it out - need a place to come back too.
If you want to check it out, I've been trying to point out how much the neo-con party of stupid does not support the troops quite often over at ;-) the ranch, too.
I know - I'm a bum - but I intend to be the best bum that I can be - so that should count for something I hope. :)
newsjunkie,
All the more reason we need the inheritance tax that chimpenfuhrer is trying to eliminate and mclame keeps harping on.
It is fair the way it is. I think Clinton raised the limit to a million or more that is tax free. When one inherits multi-millions it is downright gross.
If the people earned the money here in America they couldn't have earned it without being part of the American economy and the working man most likely made it possible. Without any working people he wouldn't have been so successful.
Thom Hartman explains it far better than I can.
Posted by dorsano on August 18, 2008 at 11:10 PM
dors,
InBev tells us that they want to make Budweiser a world brand. The CEO says he has to sell off the Clydesdales to do it.
You should have seen the tourists winding around the city this weekend trying to get their last look of those beautiful animals before the whole company gets sent to the slaughterhouse.
The funny thing is that InBev doesn't believe in spending money on advertising. I'm not sure how they do it in Brazil or Belgium, but Budweiser would be just another brand of dogfood in this country if it wasn't for those crazy ads and horses.
Let's see how fast Cindy McCain and the rest of the distributors mutiny when their customers start switching to brands that do continue to sponsor NASCAR and ask "What's up."
I'd suggest you make your way down to Grant's Farm to kiss those big beauties goodbye the next time you come down to see a Cubs/Card game.
The glue factory is where we'll all be heading soon.
Nothing American is American any longer. We might as well welcome the Russians when they invade. What precisely is a Belgian-Brazilian?
A Belgian-Brazilian-American?
Forgive my whining. I've done a lot of business with that company. I guess it's good that St. Louis is a big soccer (football) town? That they will promote.
20 lbs of sh*t in a 10 lb bag
When Are the Media Going to Talk about John McCain's Infidelity?
hmmm the conversation has changed a bit here today. not sure how it is different but...anyhow with dors hitching down to latin america we can expect some exciting new episodes of COPS on the tube. i picture dors in a 1976 dark green amc gremlin with a straight six and no rear end traction at all fishtailing down some obscure road in nicaragua with police in hot pursuit.
sally gets no new chance nor has it ever served any useful purpose whatever. it embodies all that is wrong with our species but does provide a useful whipping boy at times.
think positive.
good night.
Tools are an investment...don't sell your tools
Butte,
Putting something away for a rainy day (like a car manufacturing plant that can be converted in time of war to an assembly line that make tanks) is a good investment, too.
But short term profits that fade far too fast with the next financial bubble are just too tempting to Republican fools and thieves.
Good night, all. I'm going to invest in a few ZZZs.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, August 19, 2008; Page A02
A senior aide to Vice President Cheney is the leading contender to become a top official at the Energy Department, according to several current and former administration officials, a promotion that would put one of the administration's most ardent opponents of environmental regulation in charge of forming department policies on climate change...
with any luck we will get to see this person walk the plank right into the mouth of the crocodile...in 1/09...
Posted by Barbi on August 18, 2008 at 11:40 PM His top contenders are said to include Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty
When Governor Pawlenty takes up the concerns that just about everyone of us in MN has, he's at his best - and when he's at his best - he is damn tough to beat.
But when he focuses on "conservative"issues or "values" issues or "supply side economics" or "neo-conservative" free the world from Bush's Axis of Evil rhetoric,
you won't see the people of MN follow.
And despite our Governor's intelligence, his astute political sense, and his decency, and his genuine Green streak
I doubt that he'll be able to put lipstick on a pig - though if anyone can do it - he can.
Here's one for the road:
Chewing gum after surgery may keep you regular
Mon Aug 18
LONDON (Reuters) - Chewing gum after colon surgery appears to speed up the return of normal bowel function, British researchers said on Monday.
Postoperative ileus, or the inability of the intestines to pass contents, is a common result of abdominal surgery. It causes pain and potential health complications.
Chewing a few sticks of gum, however, could be an effective and low-cost solution.
Sanjay Purkayastha and colleagues at St. Mary's Hospital, London, analysed data from five trials involving 158 patients in which some patients chewed sugarless gum three times a day.
They found patients who chewed gum took an average of 1.1 fewer days to have a bowel movement compared with non-chewers...
news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080819/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_chewinggum_bowel
Which European company bought out Wrigley? This is the stupidest reason anyone has ever made up for chewing gum. I wonder how much the company paid these researchers to conduct this study to come up with the results they wanted. (Note that they are selling "sugarless gum")
It sort of reminds me of Cheney going to the CIA asking them to come up with something that would give him a reason to invade Iraq and steal their oil.
Potty capitalism?
Hey, CatAss... Nope it's me.
This is a Democratic site, and I'm not posting stuff for YOU. And if you don't like it, door/ass.
And I told you quite a while back that I've stopped talking nicely to you, because you always ending up acting like an idiot.
Posted by Barbi on August 18, 2008 at 11:53 PM Dors, whatever you want to be, be a good one!
:)
That's what my mom and dad always taught me.
For some reason or another they expected that of me and they thought it was my responsibility to make it so - because I lived in a country were we all believed that it was our best interest to give ME an opportunity to do so.
My parents, too, Dors. I really miss them. :`(
(I lost my mother last October.)
Keith O. video and transcript at Crooks and Liars:
Countdown Special Comment to McCain: Senator, grow up!
Posted by SandyH on August 19, 2008 at 12:02 AM Nothing American is American any longer.
I've got fond memories of Bud - I can recall quite a few nights around a campfire where it was the beverage of choice - not to mention the choice of a date (not my date - I didn't drink - I was saving myself).
I'd suggest you make your way down to Grant's Farm to kiss those big beauties goodbye the next time you come down to see a Cubs/Card game.
I guess I should
If the country continues to address the concerns of the of the future with Ronald Reagan's and JFK's rhetoric,
we may as well engage in some nostalgia.
What's your problem, CatAss? Is there a copyright on "ha ha ha ha"? And there you go, again: acting like an idiot. No surprise there.
How many of us have $5 million?:
OK, maybe I'm really out of the loop. But to me, anyone who has $100,000 a year is "rich" beyond my wildest dreams. To say anything less than $5 million is "not rich" just blows my mind.
McCain Rhetoric vs. McCain Record
* MCCAIN MISREPRESENTED VETERANS RECORD
* MCCAIN SUGGESTED RATIONING VETERANS HEALTH CARE
* MCCAIN TRIED TO WEAKEN THE 21st CENTURY GI BILL
Posted by Dan_A_Cactus** on August 19, 2008 at 12:48 AM I guess as the regular 8 die off or move on they recycle their names. that way it does not look like the bunch is getting smaller.
The regulars have become an electoral majority while you wasted your time here.
Wanker Gingrich Claims Tire Inflation Lines Big Oil’s Pockets:
This claim is absurd for a number of reasons. First, gas station owners, not Big Oil, receive the profits from selling air — if they sell air at all (presumably from mechanized air machines). Second, air is free. So of course the profit margin for selling air is going be higher than a gallon of gas. [snip]
But beyond Gingrich’s ridiculous assertion, the Auto Alliance has noted that maintaining proper tire pressure is “more important than you may think” because it saves fuel and reduces costs and greenhouse gases.
Posted by gregg on August 19, 2008 at 12:06 AM anyhow with dors hitching down to latin america we can expect some exciting new episodes of COPS on the tube. i picture dors in a 1976 dark green amc gremlin with a straight six and no rear end traction at all fishtailing down some obscure road in nicaragua with police in hot pursuit.
:)
Not a bad guess. My first car was a Gremlin. I installed surround sound speakers that covered the back hatch and invested in a plush interior and lots of Sinatra 8-tracks to play when I was giving lady friends a lift home.
I'm satisfied with my ROI.
Posted by Dan_A_Cactus** on August 19, 2008 at 01:07 AM Everyone is free to dream dor's, dream
It's a America's dream - thanks for letting us dream.
Good night, all - goodnight "Democrats" - whatever that means now - goodnight "Republicans"- whatever that means now.
Goodnight Mr. Lincoln who mad Republicans out of all of us.
But in a larger sense we can not dedicate - we can not consecrate - we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled, here, have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember, what we say here, but can never forget what they did here. It is for us, the living, rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they have, thus far, so nobly carried on. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us - that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion - that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain; that this nation shall have a new birth of freedom; and that this government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
"If we fail to dare, if we do not try, the next generation will harvest the fruit of our indifference; a world we did not want - a world we did not choose - but a world we could have made better, by caring more for the results of our labors. And we shall be left only with the hollow apology of T.S. Eliot: 'That is not what I meant at all. That is not it, at all'."
~ Robert F. Kennedy, 8/23/67
"Good night, and good luck."
Posted by Dan_A_Cactus** on August 19, 2008 at 01:20 AM Have fun with the Fake Barbi
In my dreams - thanks for trying to get my hopes up though.
i just knew dors was tooling about in a gremlin. i had one as well though it wasn't my first car. if the road was dry and you have several large friends in the back to hold down the rear it could fly...but upstate new york with lots of snow and ice turned it into a suicide machine...back in those days i worked on the cars myself and of course rarely put enough anti freeze in them so when the temp got down to ten below or so the water in the block would freeze and after you got about three or four miles from home the whole thing would over heat. then you had to jump up and down to stay warm while waiting for the engine to thaw out....took a long time for me to learn stuff back then...
Good morning, gregg.
Sally got confused and has been posting his nonsense on the afternoon thread for a few hours.
Speaking of which,
Global warming deniers forced to cancel meeting due to Tropical Storm Fay.
HAH!
decent poll news from quinnipiac one of the more reputable polling organizations:
National Obama 47, McCain 42 Obama +5
good morning dpd. i think my yankees are going down in smoke this year.
Morning gregg,
I feel like puking every time I hear that whiny bastard mclame speaking. Olberman hit the nail on the head telling mclame to grow up.
Yesterday he was whining about Obama in front of the VFW and whining is exactly how I would characterize it. Every second sentence he brings up the hard time he had as a prisoner of war lying about the Gook marking a cross in the sand by his feet. mclame can and should go to hell for lying.
I wonder how his fellow prisoners feel about this prick.
What a phucking laugh. This creep is going to lose in a landslide.
Morning, Johne.
Here's Olbermann's "Special Comment" for those who missed it last night:
Countdown Special Comment to McCain: Senator, grow up!
As for what the other POWs think of McSame using as a talking point about his qualifications to be President:
I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate. ...
I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.
Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
This guy was in the Naval Academy with Grampy Grumpy and was also a POW who was held longer than St. McSame.
Posted by WorkingManOutWest on August 18, 2008 at 08:43 PM
Oh, come on MN Thomass (aka Harpo) EVEN YOU can come up with better names, can't you? I know it is hard for a pea brain, but try, won't you?
How long you will be working is the question! TORO Corp, MN, does not like racist, homophobic cyber abusers! At least that is what they said!
Morning, Pam.
Here is something from PB (I know, yeesh!, but it seems to be not as "loony-toons" as most of the posts over there).
Re: Obama VEEP Announcement
If you want to be one of the first to know, text 62262. He will text everyone with his choice before he makes a formal announcement...
Morning Pam.
I went into town yesterday and it looked like a tornado ripped through town. The trees were shredded and leaves were thick on the streets and sidewalks.
It turns out that they had a hailstorm with golf ball sized hale. Someone to the north did see a funnel cloud but I don't know if it touched down. There was a lot of damage from the hail.
We got a heavy downpour with some small hail but nothing like in town.
The storms seem to follow along the Rio Grande.
In 2006 they had a hailstorm with baseball sized hail.
But we don't have global warming.
You all should print off Barbi"s 1:00AM above, and keep it to hand out to Veterans you know who are thinking they should vote for McCain !
This lists all of the Veteran Benefits he voted AGAINST ! Carry copies with you in your car, for those vets you might meet .
I just put several of them in the mail to various Veterans I know. I also asked my brother in law in upper New York state to make sure he posted it on the bulletion Board at the VFW where nearly every guy in town belongs to.
A veteran who votes for McCain, votes against himself!
CH Stuart, before you come in and make a fool of yourself (what are you, 10 years old?), why don't you do some googling and research on what you are about to Spew!!
Corporate Welfare is defined as:
Corporate welfare can be defined generally, as any assistance provided by a government, which gives a private business an advantage over others. In the United States, corporate welfare refers to any number of favors, costing billions of dollars each year, bestowed on corporations by the federal government. It includes, but is not limited to, tax breaks, direct grants for corporations, and various other forms of special favorable treatment.
As with other forms of welfare, many individuals and groups oppose the concept. One of the main contentions concerning corporate welfare is the fact that it like other welfare programs is unconstitutional at the federal level. The Constitution provides no authority for Congress to redistribute money collected via taxation, in an effort to subsidize businesses or individuals. In fact, the spending power of Congress is specifically detailed and limited.
While entitlement programs ostensibly designed to assist families or individuals are often described as “leveling the playing field,” those who support public assistance rarely apply this position to corporate welfare. In fact, it is as inaccurate concerning corporate welfare as it is in regard to other entitlement programs.
Corporate welfare is accused of not leveling the field at all, but distinctly providing advantages for select industries or companies at the expense of other businesses and often consumers. Not only that, but the cost is astronomical, and the taxpayer doesn’t get a say in which companies will be propped up. Adding insult to injury, some say that the government seems to choose blindly when determining which industries or businesses will yield a return on this huge investment.
Corporate welfare can be defined generally, as any assistance provided by a government, which gives a private business an advantage over others. In the United States, corporate welfare refers to any number of favors, costing billions of dollars each year, bestowed on corporations by the federal government. It includes, but is not limited to, tax breaks, direct grants for corporations, and various other forms of special favorable treatment.
As with other forms of welfare, many individuals and groups oppose the concept. One of the main contentions concerning corporate welfare is the fact that it like other welfare programs is unconstitutional at the federal level. The Constitution provides no authority for Congress to redistribute money collected via taxation, in an effort to subsidize businesses or individuals. In fact, the spending power of Congress is specifically detailed and limited.
While entitlement programs ostensibly designed to assist families or individuals are often described as “leveling the playing field,” those who support public assistance rarely apply this position to corporate welfare. In fact, it is as inaccurate concerning corporate welfare as it is in regard to other entitlement programs.
Corporate welfare is accused of not leveling the field at all, but distinctly providing advantages for select industries or companies at the expense of other businesses and often consumers. Not only that, but the cost is astronomical, and the taxpayer doesn’t get a say in which companies will be propped up. Adding insult to injury, some say that the government seems to choose blindly when determining which industries or businesses will yield a return on this huge investment.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-corporate-welfare.htm
Got it now???????
Start building your bomb shelter. rice is threatening Russia again. This time with NATO.
"Rice also said that Russia “was playing a very dangerous game” with the USA and its allies. The Secretary of State emphasized that the United States would not allow Moscow to win in Georgia, destabilize Europe and draw a new Iron Curtain through the continent."
Russian experts believe that there can be only one positive outcome of the emergency NATO meeting for Russia. France, Italy, Slovakia, Turkey and several other countries interested in maintaining stable and normal relations with Russia may block the anti-Russian resolution.
This outcome, no matter how weak it may seem, would become a serious defeat for the diplomacy of the incumbent US administration. However, NATO’s spokeswoman Carmen Romero said that all the ministers of the alliance would make a clear statement of Georgia’s support.
Russian experts hope that NATO will find itself lost in contradictions between Anglo-Saxon hawks and Old European doves. It is not ruled out, though, that Paris, Berlin and Rome may waver this time. The USA has made its allies face a tough choice – either the USA or Russia.
Turkey may show Russia its support at the meeting. Turkey, which owns the third largest army in the alliance, did not allow US battleships enter the Black Sea during the armed conflict.
More...........
Oh my, we must do everything possible to protect the two oil pipelines and the gas pipeline at all costs even if it means "nukular" war. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. BOMB, BOMB, BOMB RUSSIA! What's the tune for mclame's bomging song? Hopefully NATO will collapse before it gets this far.
If NATO does collapse, which could certainly occur, this would be another colossal failure for the chimpenfuhrer and rasputin.
If NATO does collapse, what does this do to Afghanistan?
If NATO punishes Russia, Russia will punish NATO back
Straight from some USA Russian's mouths.
There is a small country by the name of South Ossetia that wanted to declare its independence from Georgia.
The Georgian government did not agree and initiated an invasion. The government of South Ossetia asked Russia for assistance against the Georgian invasion that had taken place.
So the stories being spread by the White House , by McCain and the US Media are basically all lies !
Let's see mclame waffle or slither out of this one.
NATO could certainly collapse.
If NATO collapses, it would for all time be bush's legacy. He has so far a legacy of hate, arrogance, pompousness, stupidity, colossal audacity, prickness, and greed.
He has failed in everything he has done in his life and maybe we will be chalking up another colossal blunder.
Of course, mclame equals bush and is behind bush 100%. mclame will lose by the largest margin in history of the world.
Morning Johne.
Well, summer has rolled back in here. It will be 90 and humid today, after a week or so of cool weather. I am glad--our annual Summer reunion is on Saturday, and we have stood shivering in the past as Fall rolled in early.
The weather changes especially in the East have been something to behold. We had hail last week, and my car is all little dings.
funny how the old MN troll thinks he knows more about the weather, global warming, etc, than every single other country in the world and their leaders. More than Every prestigious Scientist, not those little balkies with tiny minds. More than the Nobel committee of high IQ people who study issues and give awards based on it. He should be in Webster's Dictionary next to the definition of Narcissism!
SandyH wrote: InBev tells us that they want to make Budweiser a world brand. The CEO says he has to sell off the Clydesdales to do it.
Didn't you know Sandy that there is a boycott going on against that beer company? In fact, I'm asking everyone to please honor this boycott and bring your Budweiser beer to my house and I'll dispose of it in a proper way.. :)
Ok that worked...
To all of you regulars on the DNC blog who are wondering exactly what my problem seems to be in the last few days, here is an answer:
I am tired of the shit on this blog. I am tired of every other post being a post that spews venom and hatred, instead of offering any way forward. And guess what? Those posts aren’t coming from Sally/Frosty/Dan/MNThomas/whatever else names are used by the “get under your skin” crowd. Those posts are coming from people who are SUPPOSEDLY part of the “party of the common person”. The people who are actually supposed to CARE about others, who can’t see past their own fucking prejudices long enough to realize that they have now become the new Rush Limbaugh. You know, I can understand refuting people like Limbaugh and the other conservative talking heads, because they know they are deliberately trying to twist America away from its progressive roots onto a path of total self-destruction…well, ok, they don’t think it’s self destruction, but I’m pretty sure that’s where it will end. But to demonize people simply because they’re misguided...Ok, Fred Phelps and his bunch you can probably safely call lunatics. But those people at that forum on Saturday? They are normal everyday folk who just happen to disagree on a LOT of points with Obama and progressives. But I saw plenty of applause from them for him, even on things where you’d normally think they’d disagree. Did you expect people who believe human life is human life from the moment of conception and that it’s their job to protect and nurture that life from that moment on to stand up and cheer when he said he was pro-choice? No, I didn’t either….but I was happy to see that people cheered when he said we need to give pregnant women every last bit of help we can. I was happy to see them applaud when he said we need to provide opportunity to everyone, give everyone a chance to succeed. Those are progressive words, and yet a conservative crowd applauded. Wake up, people. The only way to bring conservatives, or even partial conservatives, back to the fold is to practice what we preach. These people aren’t evil, especially not those in Rick Warren’s church. He has shown himself capable of change, he knows there are different worldviews, and that while we may disagree in one area, we can come together in others. And yet all you people here can do is call his congregation a bunch of religious loonies. You wonder why they seem so angry? Maybe it’s because you brush aside THEIR concerns so easily without even TRYING to understand them.
Btw, it’s not hypocritical from a conservative standpoint to be “pro-life” AND in favor of the death penalty. From the view of conservatives, the people on death row have forfeited their right to life by committing a crime such as murder. Conservatives are very obedience and punishment centered. Kind of silly, since the whole “spare the rod” thing has never really worked for raising anything but bullies and wife beaters, but I guess they think maybe it’ll work someday. And it’s not hypocritical for them to care about the fetus but not the child. It’s not that they don’t care about the children, it’s just they think the parents have to do it on their own, because that will make them stronger and better able to stand against the evil of this world.
Y’all realize that is the most significant difference in belief between progressives and conservatives? That progressives believe we’re all basically good, and conservatives think we’re all basically evil?
Sorry, went off point there for a second. My main point is this: The majority of the conservatives and biconceptuals that Obama is hoping to bring into the fold disagree with a lot, if not most, of what progressives believe. But that doesn’t mean they can’t change their minds. It doesn’t mean they aren’t open to another view. It certainly doesn’t mean they can’t work with us on the places where they DO agree. The most important thing is, we need to talk to them. I’m not talking about Limbaugh, Coulter, O’Reilly, etc. I’m talking about the average, everyday moron who you think would vote his self-interest if he just knew the facts, but keeps voting conservative instead. That’s because even when progressives talk about the issues, they accept the conservative definition of those issues. Or if they don’t accept the definition, they try to counter it by negating the words. All that does is reinforce the ideas. Progressives need to be FOR whatever progressives are FOR, not AGAINST the conservative view. Leave being CON to the CONservatives. When they try to spin “strict constructionists”, take it to a PROgressive point of view of “judicial liberators” (Hmmm, thought that might work better than Lakoff’s “freedom judges”...I may be wrong on that.) When the President says he is the “decider”, remind America that the President is the executor of the RULES that Congress makes. That’s right, Congress is in charge of the rule making…what does THAT do to your “Father Knows Best” morality, CONservatives? Hmmm?
The hate has to stop. Period. It’s making me physically ill to see posts berating Obama for reaching out to people of faith. (WWJD?) And you all know, or should know by now, that I am not even a Christian and yet I still cannot bear to read most of what is posted here about Christians. Y’all may think you’re making a distinction between “those” Christians and “the good ones” but “those” Christians think they ARE the good ones.
Conservative leaders, from Falwell and Robertson to Karl Rove and Ralph Reed, have been all too happy to exploit this gap, consistently reminding evangelical Christians that Democrats disrespect their values and dislike their Church, while suggesting to the rest of the country that religious Americans care only about issues like abortion and gay marriage; school prayer and intelligent design.
Democrats, for the most part, have taken the bait. At best, we may try to avoid the conversation about religious values altogether, fearful of offending anyone and claiming that – regardless of our personal beliefs – constitutional principles tie our hands. At worst, some liberals dismiss religion in the public square as inherently irrational or intolerant, insisting on a caricature of religious Americans that paints them as fanatical, or thinking that the very word “Christian” describes one’s political opponents, not people of faith.
Such strategies of avoidance may work for progressives when the opponent is Alan Keyes. But over the long haul, I think we make a mistake when we fail to acknowledge the power of faith in the lives of the American people, and join a serious debate about how to reconcile faith with our modern, pluralistic democracy.
Because when we ignore the debate about what it means to be a good Christian or Muslim or Jew; when we discuss religion only in the negative sense of where or how it should not be practiced, rather than in the positive sense of what it tells us about our obligations towards one another; when we shy away from religious venues and religious broadcasts because we assume that we will be unwelcome – others will fill the vacuum, those with the most insular views of faith, or those who cynically use religion to justify partisan ends.
In other words, if we don’t reach out to evangelical Christians and other religious Americans and tell them what we stand for, Jerry Falwell’s and Pat Robertson’s will continue to hold sway.
Excerpts from Senator Obama’s Wednesday, June 28th, 2006 speech on faith and politics.
I would like to add that if we continue with comments like “religious loonies”, they won’t LISTEN to what we stand for.
Btw, Kathy…sorry I called you a hate-filled bitch the other day. You’re not a bitch. But I still feel most of you have gone completely insane with hatred. Please come back from there.
GregL,
I love ya, man, but I think you are wrong.
Yes, there is a lot of hate thrown around here. Between frustration watching a race where McCain should be at the 23% who still approve of Bush, yet is neck to neck with our guy, proving once again how STUPID the American voter is, and the same exact swift boating, media bias, etc, just is too much. To try and picture ourselves AGAIN on November 4th evening, watching McCain take the Presidency is more than I can bear.
So if the fire in my belly comes out as hatred, instead of passion, I apologize.
Now this is pretty "funny" in a "what were they thinking" kind of way.
McCain Wants To Announce VP On Anniversary Of Katrina?
He wanted to dampen down the media cycle from the Dem Convention but instead will be putting HIS face on the greatest government domestic failure in years.
Also, the nitwits who started scheduling the GOP Convention in order to put it as close to 9-11 as possible need to rethink that pandering.
The last night of their convention when Grampy Grumpy will be crowned will be on at the same time as the Giants / Redskins game.
I know what I'll be watching.
Posted by GregL on August 19, 2008 at 09:54 AM
I don't entirely agree with you. We are angry at what has become of this country.
I lost any hope of commiserating with evangelicals during the late 80s. My closest friend in NY was dying of AIDS. A young women in my office (from Michigan) started ranting how God punished gays by giving them AIDS and that AIDS-afflicted gays should all be smothered because they were polluting the air that good Christians breathed. She said it’s what her pastor preached. Three partners had to restrain me from strangling her. I still miss my friend.
As to the political scene, I’m hoping to see a Dem in office, and if you for one second think I could vote for McCain you are dead wrong. He’s everything that is currently wrong with our country. Obama is our choice. Our hopes are now invested in him to help us get through the turbulent years ahead.
« Hide Comments
Post a comment
Thanks for signing in,
.
Now you can comment.
(sign out - change name - manage account)
