Monday Open Thread
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Comments (163) «
Do you think Congress will try and force the Big Three automakers away from the internal combustion engine and require a complete retooling for the exclusive manufacturing of electric cars?
Good afternoon fellow Democrats.
CactusBarrack on November 24, 2008 at 01:45 PM
There you go again spreading misinformation about. The economic downturn will be attributed to one person much like the Hoover Depression was attributed President Hoover. This time, though, it'll be known as the Bush Depression.
CactusBarrack on November 24, 2008 at 01:45 PM
Showing you age again? Most 40 somethings don't know who St. Reagan was much less Carter. These contemporary family-values adults are now fixated on restoring the middle class lifestyle they know existed before the Republicans destroyed it and in saving the planet from global warming caused by the multinationals' greed.
You're a dinosaur waiting for the next ice age.
U.S. bails out Citi with $20 billion capital, guarantees
By Dan Wilchins and Jonathan Stempel
NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. government moved to bail out Citigroup Inc, agreeing to shoulder most potential losses from $306 billion of its toxic assets and inject $20 billion of new capital, its biggest effort yet to prevent a big bank from failing.
The bailout, announced on Sunday, will give the U.S. government a 7.8 percent equity stake and marks the latest government effort to contain a widening financial crisis that has already brought down Bear Stearns, Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc and Washington Mutual Inc.
Shares of Citigroup surged as much as 72 percent on Monday. The price of insuring $10 million of Citigroup bonds through credit-default swaps fell by about one-half to $257,000 per year.
"Clearly, this will stabilize the (banks) group near term, and the stocks this morning should reflect it," Oppenheimer & Co analyst Meredith Whitney said. "We are still cautious on the potential future dilution from further prospective capital raises for the group as well as continued higher losses related to credit and asset deflation."...
http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSTRE4AJ45G20081124?sp=true
So we can assure Citibank this quick yet leave the auto industry hung out to dry? This is nonsense! The auto industry is far more important to the overall health of the American economy than the moneychangers at Citibank.
In its final days, the Bush Administration proves yet again how partisan it is with policy decisions. The only reason the Big 3 haven't gotten a bailout is how MI, OH, and a few other states voted in the election.
CactusBarrack on November 24, 2008 at 02:04 PM
We've already tried GOP trickle-down economics in the mid 80's and 2002 through 2006. That is why we are in the condition we are today and why we had the recession of the early 90's. It does not work. The fat cats have had a relatively free ride for long enough. It's time for them to pony up.
President-elect Obama said as he announced his economic team that he plans to follow that up with remarks on Tuesday about "cuts and sacrifices" the nation will need to make in the days ahead. He said that in addition to spending to get the economy going, he wants to "reform how business is done in Washington, and how the budgeting process works, how projects are done, so that we have a path towards a sustainable and responsible budget scenario down the line."
President Bush has been criticized for not asking the American people to make specific sacrifices, and Obama suggested in remarks to reporters at a Chicago hotel that he will have some frank talk for tough times as part of what his team is calling a "reform agenda."
"Short term, we've got to focus on boosting the economy and creating 2.5 million jobs," Obama said. "But part and parcel of that is a plan for a sustainable fiscal situation long term, and that's going to require some reforms in Washington. And I'm going to be discussing that more tomorrow."...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15920.html
Mr. President-Elect, I can think of a way to save the U.S. $10 billion per month as soon as you take over on 20JAN09. It's called Iraq.
the train wreck already happened...bush and greenspan and graham caused it by ripping up the tracks and selling them to the saudis. obama is crawling thru the wreckage trying to save as many folks as he can...
today rush is bitching that obama will be driving around in a armored vehicle which burns a lot of gas while he wants the rest of us to drive green cars. this is what the right wing has to offer....complain about protecting the mixed race president from their white supremacist nut balls assassins...this line of attack should win over those few separatists living in mud huts in northern minnesota who usually don't vote...as for the rest of the nation....well the pelicans don't need em anyway...i mean they've got alabama and mississippi sewn up don't they?
What a Single Nuclear Warhead Could Do
Why the U.S. needs a space-based missile defense against an EMP attack.
By BRIAN T. KENNEDY
CactusBarrack on November 24, 2008 at 02:37 PM
The Contract With America brought us NAFTA and its ilk, so called free trade, which I was, and still am, against. 11SEP01 was not what I was referring to but, President Bush failed to protect this country on that day. What I was referring to was the economic policies rammed through a rubber stamp Republican Congress that have broght us to this economic meltdown of historic proportions.
The cherry-picking is coming from the right who is trying to blame President-Elect Obama for the economy a full two months before he takes over.
What a Single Nuclear Warhead Could Do
Why the U.S. needs a space-based missile defense against an EMP attack.
By BRIAN T. KENNEDY
As severe as the global financial crisis now is, it does not pose an existential threat to the U.S. Through fits and starts we will sort out the best way to revive the country's economic engine. Mistakes can be tolerated, however painful. The same may not be true with matters of national security.
Although President George W. Bush has accomplished more in the way of missile defense than his predecessors -- including Ronald Reagan -- he will leave office with only a rudimentary system designed to stop a handful of North Korean missiles launched at our West Coast. Barack Obama will become commander in chief of a country essentially undefended against Russian, Chinese, Iranian or ship-launched terrorist missiles. This is not acceptable.
The attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, have proven how vulnerable we are. On that day, Islamic terrorists flew planes into our buildings. It is not unreasonable to believe that if they obtain nuclear weapons, they might use them to destroy us. And yet too many policy makers have rejected three basic facts about our position in the world today:
First, as the defender of the Free World, the U.S. will be the target of destruction or, more likely, strategic marginalization by Russia, China and the radical Islamic world.
Second, this marginalization and threat of destruction is possible because the U.S. is not so powerful that it can dictate military and political affairs to the world whenever it wants. The U.S. has the nuclear capability to vanquish any foe, but is not likely to use it except as a last resort.
Third, America will remain in a condition of strategic vulnerability as long as it fails to build defenses against the most powerful political and military weapons arrayed against us: ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads. Such missiles can be used to destroy our country, blackmail or paralyze us...
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122748923919852015.html
The upgrading of our infrastruture must take into account the possibility of an EMP attack. All of our electrical grid as well as our first responders communications equipment should be ruggedized ASAP. President Bush, for all of his post 11SEP01 bluster, has been remiss in securing this nation from attack. There are a number of low-tech possibilities that could virtually devastate what is left of our economy.
That is why I am pleased to hear President-Elect Obama state that his priority is going to be on upgrading the infrastructure. Conservatives should take notice. We're going to show you how a big government can be run effectively and efficiently.
gregg on November 24, 2008 at 02:37 PM
Dude, you forgot the "Fundologicals" of UT and ID and the gun worshippers in WY. I know, I know, so many whack jobs, so little time... :-)
That's right, Bob. Governing effectively is so much easier to do when you aren't trying to prove it can't be done.
Forbes magazine President and CEO Steve Forbes called Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson “the worst treasury secretary we’ve had in modern times”, citing, among other things, the government’s handling of the housing crisis.
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=848A646059163E19814C21DD595C9167?diaryId=8379
To all -- especially the lurkers:
Please excuse these poor filthy lost souls who cannot take the time out of any day to post anything positive about our nation or our nation's people. Yes, I'm talking about our resident pet trolls who, while helping win this election for Obama by demonstrating the ignorance that is the neoconservative party, continue to post lies and vileness and who now have posted the personal info of a fellow democratic patriot.
MATT ORTEGA: These troll posters should now be banned for life, IMHO.
OMG, these ads are comparing Bible Spice to Raygun. To their credit, the GOP faithful are stupid enough to fall for it.
2
LincolnParkLiberal on November 24, 2008 at 01:37 PM
What we really need to get away from is not just internal combustion engines in vehicles, but in other uses as well, particularly the 2 cycle engine, which is the worst polluter in the internal combustion family.
This includes many lawnmowers, weed eaters, dirt bikes, snowmobiles, and four wheelers. (I'll hear about this because the trolls like many neanderthals consider these items sacred artifacts.)
We also need to look at the other considerations instead of just going to another form of propulsion for cars.
Privately owned vehicles are not the best form of transportation for congested inner cities, or even for inter urban travel. We need to restore public transportation systems for urban travel, and passenger rail service for traveling between cities. The light rail systems in the major cities that have them prove that they are viable options.
Electric powered light rail for urban travel can be reduce the amount of carbon emissions, especially when coupled with solar power. Since the peak rider times come during daylight hours, a heliostat system similar to one which is being tried out in Spain could power the system during daylight hours with power to spare.
5
BobVADemocratHawk on November 24, 2008 at 01:54 PM
Shucks, it's already known as the Bush Recession, it wouldn't take much more to change the R to a D.
BobVADemocratHawk on November 24, 2008 at 02:43 PM
Right you are Bob. Trickle-down economics has been disproven AGAIN. The Laffer curve is a hoax. Reaganomics almost bankrupted this country. Bushonomics has brought us even closer to the brink. But the republican DUPES that make less than $40,000 are still paying homage to it like the groveling fools they are.
i mean they've got alabama and mississippi sewn up don't they?
gregg on November 24, 2008 at 02:37 PM
hey gregg...believe it or not, the county mississippi's governor and former rnc chairman, hailey barbour, is from went for obama! they also went for the democratic candidate for the senate, ronnie musgrove. and, the district congressional rep. is a democrat, bennie thompson. i haven't looked it up, but i'd imagine the pucks have few or no states that are completely red. the public, hallelujah!, has finally realized them for who they are, a bunch of incompetent, self-absorbed, sociopaths who care little of nothing for others and who's main purpose in life, as bob says, is to destroy our government.
btw -- i hope everyone here is sharing their thoughts at change.gov, even the trolls should take the opportunity to let the fbi and secret service in on who they are.
Several days ago McJoan at Daily Kos had some good thoughts on the Lieberman situation, and why it really does matter.
McJoan is right. "The Joe Lieberman fight was more than symbolic"
"The Joe Lieberman fight was more than symbolic, more than revenge, more than anger. It's been a long-standing fight to try to make Democrats stand up for themselves and what they believe in. Lieberman obviously abandoned the core of the party when he decided to stand with Bush and McCain on the critical issues of the day."
And lots more.
CactusBarrack on November 24, 2008 at 03:09 PM
"Who has controlled congress for the last two years?" A: The POTUS' veto pen.
"Who got paid the block regulations in the banking area?" A: The Republican controlled Congress from 1995 until 2007
"Is Dodd now a Republican? Is Franks a Republican?" A: Of course not. But the chairs of those committees from 1995 until 2007 were.
CactusBarrack on November 24, 2008 at 03:15 PM
Oooo, nice try, but, wrong again. To end the $10 billion per month we're spending in Iraq begins on 21JAN09 with the drawdown of U.S. forces from Iraq. The 2011 timtable is fine by me. At least that is a plan to do something we should've done five years ago which is leave Iraq to the Iraqis.
President Bush's Record of Economic and Budget Failure
November 24, 2003
The economy entered recession in March of 2001, two months after President Bush was inaugurated. During the spring of 2001, the Administration claimed that its economic plan was the answer to our economic troubles and the President's tax cut proposals would strengthen a struggling economy. President Bush's economic plan was enacted soon after the recession began and now has been in place for two and a half years.
The Administration and congressional Republicans predicted that the President's tax cut plan would turn the economy around. Those predictions proved false - instead of a quick economic turnaround, the country still has fewer jobs than it did when the recession began. At 31 months, this matches the recession of the early 1990s, under the first President Bush, as the longest period of job losses since the Great Depression.
http://democrats.senate.gov/dpc/dpc-new.cfm?doc_name=fs-108-1-408
boiler man thanks for showing me that my effete northeastern bias is not always smart and that i should not be so dismissive of my comrades south of the mason dixon jar. hope all is well with you and i could not be more pleased with the election outcome all around.
GregL on November 24, 2008 at 03:05 PM
Republicans run on how bad government is and when they get elected, they do their darndest to prove such.
BlueinIdaho on November 24, 2008 at 03:23 PM
There is one striking similarity. Both President Reagan and Gov. Palin (R-AK)are dumb as a box of rocks and twice as dense as are their supporters. I should know. I voted for President Reagan in 1984, my first POTUS election, and in 1984, when it came to politics, I was dumb as a box of rocks as well.
Chicago on November 24, 2008 at 03:29 PM
And still they're bitter and clinging even harder to their guns and religion.
BoilerMan on November 24, 2008 at 03:30 PM
The Secret Service knows who they are already because of all of the domestic spying laws the GOP put in place. Oh, the delicious irony of it all...
Pammy does not whine about Robert being on here 24/7.
3CactusBarrack on November 24, 2008 at 01:41 PM
NOW OLD MAN DANNY, TELL ME YOU DO NOT REALLY BELIEVE SALLY THAT ALL THOSE NAMES ARE ROBERT, DO YOU????????
LET ME TELL YOU ONE MORE TIME. STEVIE/SALLY IS SICK. ONE OF THE GALS HERE, COPIED HIS POSTS AND SENT THEM TO A PSYCHIATRIST FRIEND, WHO SAID THIS IS A SICK MAN. STEVIE IS SO AFRAID OF NOT BEING SMART AS THE REST OF US, HE IMAGINES THINGS. I KNOW ROBERT. I KNOW THE REST OF THE CREW. THEY ARE NOT ROBERT. AND IF YOU BELIEVE THEY ARE, THEN YOU ARE AS SICK AS STEVIE!!
Got that now, old man?
Raising Taxes during a "economic down turn" prolongs it and deepens it.
8CactusBarrack on November 24, 2008 at 02:04 PM
Gee, isn't that what the Repugs told Clinton, and they all voted against it, yet Clinton raised them and we had the most wonderful Economy, Stock Market, Jobs, Home sales, world image we ever had????? Somebody was not paying attention !!!
Chicago on November 24, 2008 at 03:49 PM
all of this gives a whole new meaning to the old proverb about birds, hands, and bushes. from its beginning, trickle down economics has been fatally flawed. the flow of wealth in this economy has always been from the bottom up, that's a function of capitalism. but for any system to remain viable, the 'nutritive' resources that drive it must be allowed to freely circulate throughout the entire system, they must be recycled. the flawed logic of 'trickle down' assumed that philanthropy and social conscience would take the place of taxes as the means of redistributing wealth and keeping the system running. well, they were tragically wrong, and not only we, but the whole world knows it. i'd say, it's not that the party isn't over till the fat lady sings, it's that the pug party is finished and the pigs are startin' to squeal.
Oh Man, How MN is going to LOVE another Democratic Senator. Senator Franken. I love the sound of it !!!
Popular polling site predicts Franken win; Minnesota lawyer sees Franken gains
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Popular_polling_site_predicts_Franken_win_1124.html
HOLY CRIPES------------GOD IS GOOD!!!!! :)
Gregg, You watching this????
Poll: Martin Only Two Points Behind Chambliss In Runoff
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/24/poll-martin-only-two-poin_n_146099.html
BEIJING (AP) - A newspaper published by China's ruling Communist Party is blasting the latest Guns N' Roses album as an attack on the Chinese nation.
Delayed since recording began in 1994, "Chinese Democracy" hit stores in the U.S. on Sunday, although it is unlikely to be sold legally in China, where censors maintain tight control over films, music and publications.
In an article Monday headlined "American band releases album venomously attacking China," the Global Times said unidentified Chinese Internet users had described the album as part of a plot by some in the West to "grasp and control the world using democracy as a pawn."
The album "turns its spear point on China," the article said.
China's Foreign Ministry did not respond to faxed questions about the article, although a spokesman speaking on routine condition of anonymity said: "We don't need to comment on that."
Spokesmen for the Culture Ministry and State Administration of Radio, Film and Television, government bodies that regulate album releases and performances, could not be reached for comment...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94L9RSG0&show_article=1
And if you read on in this article, you'll see how China limits it imports of entertainment in an effort to bolster its own domestic production. I strongly recommend we adopt an indentical trade policy on all aspects of traded goods and services.
But as far as the Chinese's opinion of this album goes; screw 'em. If they don't like it, they don't have to listen.
Here's a letter not only for Gingrich (by his sister, no less) that is for ALL Repugs !
A Letter to My Brother Newt Gingrich
The truth is that you're living in a world that no longer exists. I, along with millions of Americans, clearly see the world the way it as -- and we embrace what it can be. You, on the other hand, seem incapable of looking for new ideas or moving beyond what worked in the past.
Welcome to the 21st century, big bro. I can understand why you're so afraid of the energy that has been unleashed after gay and lesbian couples had their rights stripped away from them by a hateful campaign. I can see why you're sounding the alarm against the activists who use all the latest tech tools to build these rallies from the ground up in cities across the country.
This unstoppable progress has at its core a group we at HRC call Generation Equality. They are the most supportive of full LGBT equality than any American generation ever -- and when it comes to the politics of division, well, they don't roll that way. 18-24 year olds voted overwhelmingly against Prop 8 and overwhelmingly for Barack Obama. And the numbers of young progressive voters will only continue to grow. According to the Center for Information and Research on Civic Learning, about 23 million 18-29 year olds voted on Nov. 4, 2008 -- the most young voters ever to cast a ballot in a presidential election. That's an increase of 3 million more voters compared to 2004.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/candace-gingrich/a-letter-to-my-brother-ne_b_145739.html
gregg on November 24, 2008 at 03:52 PM
hi gregg, i'm doing well, thanks. i'm totally ecstatic about the election. finally, after all the years of the pugs deliberately tearing down the government and selling it off to themselves, we have a public who wants it to work, and intelligent people who can get the job done. i hope we're not too late.
Clues Obama Won't Govern Center-Right
http://www.ourfuture.org/progressive-opinion/2008114824/clues-obama-wont-govern-center-right
why dont some put sally away for long time in place for the insane if you have to catch him with butter fly net
Staten Island shoplifters, beware: 'Tis definitely better to give than deceive this holiday season.
Shoppers caught filling their stockings (or anything else) with stolen merchandise could find their faces flashing every six minutes on electronic billboards in the Staten Island Mall. The first-of-its-kind program - initially to feature five convicted Staten Island shoplifters - will run through Christmas.
"I wanted to do something just to warn people who might have ideas about shoplifting," said Staten Island District Attorney Dan Donovan, whose office created the program. "With economic times hard, more people might consider doing this. We just want people to be forewarned."
RELATED: BUSY TIMES FOR BRAZEN BANK ROBBERS
The digital mug shots in the 15-second ad are of five Staten Islanders already convicted of shoplifting. This rogues' gallery could grow to include anyone arrested and convicted in the upcoming weeks, Donovan said.
"We can put more people up, take more people down," he said. "If you shoplift in this mall, your picture may end up here, too."
Donovan says the intent is not to stigmatize the thieves, but to remind the estimated 1.3 million shoppers who will visit the mall between now and the end of the holidays of the crime's consequences. The cost of the ads was covered with assets forfeited by local criminals, and the DA's office got a discounted ad rate...
This is a great idea. 21st century technology is at work.
in minnesota we have one it be nice to have two again get rid of coleman the dip shit
Just how long is Matt Ortega going to allow the personal info of a blogger to be posted on this site??? This is about enough to cause me to pack it up and move to a different blog. I've lasted through the dumbass bickering and tempertantrums and the insipid comments from the pet trolls, but this might be the proverbial straw.
SALLY- your insane not everybody on here is not robert for one thing ima not robert im from minnesota
Matt Ortega:
This thread contains personal info of one of the posters.
This thread contains filthy vile attacks on one or more of the posters.
Fix it or kill it.
I'll check back....maybe.
clearing up what iam not Robert im from minnesota like steive sally prove that im robert numbnuts
Good afternoon, all.
CactusBarrack on November 24, 2008 at 02:07 PM
Oh, I paid attention. The moment they started calling Reaganomics Voodoo Economics I knew the GOP was going to steal us blind.
Reagonomics or 'voodoo economics'?
Wall Street traders
Reagan wanted a new economic dawn for America
Ronald Reagan's presidency was dogged by controversy over its economic policy almost from the beginning.
Mr Reagan believed that getting the government out of the lives of its citizens as much as possible would boost economic growth.
He pushed for tax cuts, especially for the rich, on the grounds that giving them greater incentives would stimulate risk-taking and entrepreneurship.
His advisers believed that the additional economic activity would actually boost tax revenues...
Chasm between rich and poor
Homeless person
Many were poverty-stricken during the "Reagan recession"
The tax cuts for the rich boosted their income, especially from stocks. Unskilled workers, meanwhile, saw their jobs disappear, reinforcing the widening of inequality which was so evident in the Reagan era.
Average hourly earnings for manual workers actually fell, while average household income was only maintained because more women went out to work...
But Ronald Reagan's most controversial economic legacy was the size of the federal budget deficit. After his term in office ended, the issue dogged American politics for more than a decade...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/270292.stm
It didn't work then and it's really screwed up our nation's future the second time around under Spunky. Trickle down, supply side economics is a losing ideology.
So housewives had to go into the workforce to maintain the middle class standard of living. Now the Republicans are going to want to ease the child labor laws?
It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
America’s forgotten freedoms
A survey by the First Amendment Center in the US has reached the shocking conclusion that most American citizens don’t know the five basic freedoms enshrined in the constitution.
The study found that no more than 3% of Americans remember “petition” among the First Amendment’s five basic freedoms.
However, freedom of speech was remembered by the majority of respondents - 56%.
The others freedoms enshrined in the constitution appeared to have made little impression: freedom of religion was named by 15%; the same percentage remembered press freedom as a constitutional right while just 14% knew they had a right to assembly.
The number of respondents who remembered freedom of speech was the lowest in the history of the survey, conducted each year for the past eleven years.
What makes this year’s results more shocking is that 4 out of 10 people questioned could not name any freedom at all.
Whatever freedoms the constitution of the country may guarantee, it does not matter much since these rights are neither remembered nor needed as such.
The findings indicate that modern Americans do not think along the same lines as the Founders of the U.S.
Nowadays, it would seem, many Americans do not consider their basic rights and freedoms inalienable and are ready to delegate them to state or federal officials.
More than two centuries ago it did not take long for the Founders of the United States of America to realize the necessity of preserving individual freedoms in a system of individual states with a strong federal governmental centre...
http://www.russiatoday.com/features/news/33295
It's a damn shame that we have to be reminded of our civil rights by, of all people, the Russians. This story also reminds us just how uninformed the sheeple are. Stupid people do stupid things, vote for stupid politicians, and support stupid legislation.
So we can assure Citibank this quick yet leave the auto industry hung out to dry? This is nonsense! The auto industry is far more important to the overall health of the American economy than the moneychangers at Citibank.
In its final days, the Bush Administration proves yet again how partisan it is with policy decisions. The only reason the Big 3 haven't gotten a bailout is how MI, OH, and a few other states voted in the election.
10
BobVADemocratHawk on November 24, 2008 at 02:19 PM
Bob,
And because the Republicans want to break the Unions.
the unions are what created the middle class the republican are ass to break the rest of the unions
Afternoon all good Dems! In the past week or so there have been numerous mentions of this test on television, in my local newspaper and on the internet. I took this test (and did well 90%+) but it did not seem like all of the questions were 'civics' questions. There were questions about philosophy, religion and a lot of economics questions. Also, the phrasing of some of the questions seems very 'neo-conservative, republican' to me. Did anyone else take this quiz and did you have the same impressions?
Matt Ortega:
This thread contains personal info of one of the posters.
This thread contains filthy vile attacks on one or more of the posters.
Fix it or kill it.
I'll check back....maybe.
56
BlueinIdaho on November 24, 2008 at 04:56 PM
to Blue: Thank you for posting this objection! I totally agree and second your request to ensure that personal information is either blocked or taken down entirely when not posted by the individual. (If you want to 'share' your info here, you can; but, others should not be allowed to violate your privacy!)
Hi, dusty.
The number of respondents who remembered freedom of speech was the lowest in the history of the survey, conducted each year for the past eleven years.
What makes this year’s results more shocking is that 4 out of 10 people questioned could not name any freedom at all.
Whatever freedoms the constitution of the country may guarantee, it does not matter much since these rights are neither remembered nor needed as such...
BobVADemocratHawk on November 24, 2008 at 05:04 PM
Bob,
After eight years of indoctrination by the Rove and Karen Hughes fascist propaganda machine, the sheeple think that A Free Speech Zone and the lack of a Fairness Doctrine is liberty and justice for all.
The Republicans are really sick, twisted authoritarians. Bad potty training?
SandyH on November 24, 2008 at 05:06 PM
Of course; one last parting shot, as it were.
dusty2006 on November 24, 2008 at 05:07 PM
Hello Dusty. I hope all is well with you.
UFO involved in a dramatic incident
Nov 21 2008 by Anuji Varma, Birmingham Mail
A POLICE helicopter flying over Birmingham narrowly avoided tragedy when it nearly collided with a UFO, a report has claimed.
The pilot managed to swerve out of the mystery aircraft’s way while he was on a routine police surveillance task over the city centre earlier this year.
The helicopter was also carrying two police observers during the journey at around 9.50pm on May 2.
All three reported seeing an aircraft with two continuous blue/green lights – but were unable to identify what it was. The extraordinary incident is detailed in a document compiled by experts from the Airprox Board, which records near misses and reports them to the military and air traffic control units.
The report stated: “The front observer saw unidentified lights flying around their aircraft. The pilot established visual contact, as he manoeuvred the aircraft to avoid a collision and to identify the light source.”...
{Tinfoil hat mode ON} This is another area I wouldn't mind see some governmental transparency in. It wouldn't surprise me the least little bit to know we have conclusive proof of extraterrestial life. I wonder what President-Elect Obama's assessment would be if we did? {Tinfoil hat mode OFF}
This made my cry.
Starving for Change
Monday 24 November 2008
by: Chris Hedges, Truthdig
Elba Figueroa worked as a nurse's aide until she got Parkinson's disease. She lost her job. She lost her health care. She receives $703 a month in government assistance. Her rent alone costs $750. And so she borrows money from friends and neighbors every month to stay in her apartment. She laboriously negotiates her wheelchair up and down steps and along the frigid sidewalks of Trenton, N.J., to get to soup kitchens and food pantries to eat.
"Food prices have gone up," the 47-year-old Figueroa said, waiting to get inside the food pantry run by the Crisis Ministry of Princeton and Trenton. "I don't have any money. I run out of things to eat. I worked until I physically could not work anymore. Now I live like this."
The pantry, which occupies a dilapidated three-story art deco building in Old Trenton, one of the poorest sections of the city, is one of about two dozen charities that struggle to provide shelter and food to the poor. Those who quality for assistance are permitted to come once a month and push a shopping cart in a U shape around the first floor where, clutching a piece of paper with allotted points, they can stock up on items using the pantry's point system according to the number of people in a household. The shelves of the pantry hold bags of rice, jars of peanut butter, macaroni and cheese and cans of beets, corn and peas. Two refrigerated cases hold eggs, chickens, fresh carrots and beef hot dogs. "All Fresh Produce 2 pounds = 1 point" a sign on the glass door of the refrigerated unit reads. Another reads: "1 Dozen EGGS equal 3 protein points. Limit of 1 dozen per household."
The swelling numbers waiting outside homeless shelters and food pantries around the country, many of them elderly or single women with children, have grown by at least 30 percent since the summer. General welfare recipients receive $140 a month in cash and another $140 in food stamps. This is all many in Trenton and other impoverished areas have to live on.
Trenton, a former manufacturing center that has a 20 percent unemployment rate and a median income of $33,000, is a window into our current unraveling. The financial meltdown is plunging the working class and the poor into levels of destitution unseen since the Depression. And as the government squanders taxpayer money in fruitless schemes to prop up insolvent banks and investment houses, citizens are callously thrown onto the street without work, a place to live or enough food.
The statistics are already grim. Our banking and investment system, holding perhaps $2 trillion in worthless assets, cannot be saved, even with the $700 billion of taxpayer money recklessly thrown into its financial black hole. Our decline is irrevocable. The number of private sector jobs has dropped for the past 10 months and at least a quarter of all businesses say they plan to cut more jobs over the next year. The nation's largest banks, including Citigroup, face collapse. Retail sales fell in October by the largest monthly drop on record. Auto companies are on the edge of bankruptcy. The official unemployment figures, which duplicitously mask real unemployment that is probably now at least 10 percent nationwide, are up to 6.1 percent and headed higher. We have lost 1.2 million jobs since January. Young men of color have 50 percent unemployment rates in cities such as Trenton. Twelve million houses are worth less than their mortgages and a million people will lose their homes this year in foreclosures. The current trends, if not swiftly reversed, mean that one in 33 home owners will face foreclosure.
There are now 36.2 million Americans who cope daily with hunger, up by more than 3 million since 2000, according to the Food Research and Action Center in Washington, D.C. The number of people in the worst-off category-the hungriest-rose by 40 percent since 2000, to nearly 12 million people.
SandyH on November 24, 2008 at 05:22 PM
Bad potty training is only the beginning, I'm afraid. I'll say it again. Stupid people do stupid things and vote for stupid politicians who, in turn, make stupid legislation. If it weren't for the 14th and 24th Amendments, I'd advocate a law that prohibits people with an IQ of less than 100 to vote.
Just like the housing crisis - money for institutions and the rich and nothing for the individuals!
Bailouts for Bankers, Not a Cent for Autoworkers
posted by John Nichols on 11/24/2008 @ 3:25pm
This is the part of our nation's surreal economic crisis that seems particularly surreal:
The U.S. auto industry, which employs 3 million Americans in auto plants, parts and supplier networks and dealerships nationwide is broadly understood as being essential to maintaining America as an industrial force. It's financial collapse, which even critics of moves to bailout the industry suggest is imminent, would devastate workers, retirees and communities in every state of the nation. Despite the grumbling from anti-union zealots, the auto giants have radically retooled in a manner that makes the cost of producing a vehicle at a unionized plant of General Motors, Ford or Chrysler roughly equivalent to the cost of running a car off the line at a non-union plant. And to top it all off: Auto plants actually produce something that most Americans consider to be useful.
Yet, proposals to provide what now seems to be a very small bailout -- $25 billion -- are currently stalled.
At the same time, the whole of the federal government is scrambling to buy as much as $50 billion in "toxic assets" -- bad loans and other products of irresponsible financial practices that are of dubious value -- from Citigroup, a global banking concern that makes money by charging working families exorbitant interest rates for credit. According to the Wall Street Journal, "[The move to protect the banking concern] would mean taxpayers could be on the hook if Citicorp's massive portfolios of mortgage, credit cards, commercial real-estate and big corporate loans continue to sour."
Perhaps, in some wild calculation of American interest, Citicorp is worthy of a bailout.
But what mad calculus would make Citigroup more worthy than the auto industry?
And why the urgency with regard to Citigroup and the casual disengagement with regard to the industrial giants that, for all their flaws and perils, remain what Barack Obama correctly described as "the backbone of American manufacturing"?
Something is fundamentally wrong with a federal government that offers bankers a bailout and autoworkers as cold shoulder.
marymac_memphis on November 24, 2008 at 05:34 PM
And before any of us advocate for foreign aid, we ought to remember this article. The first duty of our government is to the 300 million Americans every politician in elected office swears to protect, preserve, and defend.
This just popped up:
Prediction: Franken Will Win by 27 Votes
posted by Jon Wiener on 11/24/2008 @ 12:24pm
Nate Silver, whose website FiveThirtyEight.com had the most accurate predictions for the Nov. 4 vote for president and senators, has a new prediction: Al Franken will win the Minnesota Senate recount -- by 27 votes.
Franken came in 215 votes behind incumbent Republican Norm Coleman on election day, in an election where 2.9 million votes were cast. Under Minnesota election law, a hand recount was mandatory and began last Wednesday.
Silver, a sports statistician who turned his formidable mathematical talents to evaluating political polls for the 2008 election, became a legend among political junkies when his final prediction for the Nov. 4 election accurately predicted the winner of 49 of the 50 states. He forecast that Obama would beat McCain by 6.1 percentage points; Obama won by 6.8 points. Silver also correctly predicted the winner of every Senate race (except for Minnesota, which has not yet been settled).
Silver's methodology relies on multivariate regression analysis, well-known to statisticians but difficult for non-specialists to grasp. In this case he is analyzing precinct-by-precinct returns available on the Secretary of State's website, and focusing on the number of challenges from each camp. He released his projection Sunday afternoon.
The law governing recounts in Minnesota is excellent. The state has a complete paper trail for all ballots and a uniform system of counting for all counties (unlike Florida in 2000). If any intent on the part of the voter can be discerned, the ballot must be counted.
Who has controlled congress for the last two years?....
The Republican Senators who filibustered or threatened to filibuster everything Democrats tried to do to stop the Bush dysfunction before the current meltdown. They were the enablers and the obstructionists most responsible. They are as corrupt and incompetent as they come.
We got rid of a bunch of them this election cycle but a few of the more loony ones hung on. We'll get rid of a lot more of them in 2010. Jim Bunning is be far one of the craziest. He can't be trusted with sharp objects.
Jim Bunning is be far one of the craziest. He can't be trusted with sharp objects.
79
SandyH on November 24, 2008 at 05:45 PM
I think M. Bachman and H. Wilson are two of the worst elected officials in the country!
BobVADemocratHawk on November 24, 2008 at 05:39 PM
Bob,
A lot of average folks were tricked by clever crooks. Sure many were manipulated by their greed and prejudices, but a good number were just frightened by 9/11 to stop thinking straight.
We almost ended the madness in 2004. If we had had another two weeks Kerry would have won. The fog was lifting even then.
WILMINGTON, Del. – Edward "Ted" Kaufman, a former aide to Sen. Joe Biden, was named Monday by Delaware Gov. Ruth Ann Minner to fill the Senate seat Biden is leaving for the vice presidency. Kaufman is president of a political and management consulting firm based in Wilmington. Kaufman served on Biden's Senate staff from 1973 to 1994, including 19 years as chief of staff. He is an advisory board member to President-elect Barack Obama's transition team.
marymac_memphis on November 24, 2008 at 05:51 PM
mary,
I thought Heather Wilson was retiring. She's the one from the Southwest somewhere with that snooty arrogant bearing?
marymac_memphis on November 24, 2008 at 05:34 PM
The top 2% have a lot to answer for and perhaps it's time that they were subpoenaed into a Congressional hearing to explain why they still need Welfare for the Wealthy.
BobVADemocratHawk on November 24, 2008 at 05:42 PM
I totally agree! There is absolutely no excuse for American people to go hungry. None but especially when we are sending aid to other countries!
I'm watching a repeat of Obama's press conference from this morning.
It's a crying shame when the President-elect has to take charge because our citizens (including the likes of Steve Forbes) have lost all confidence in the current President's ability to run the government.
Bush said he had a lot of political capital after the 2004 election and planned to spend it. Apparently, the spent all our real capital, too. Where are our national asset and equity? Did Spunky and his Republican henchmen offshore all of them?
I bet the Chinese who hold all those worthless IOUs are asking the same question.
A discussion of unions would be very interesting. I find young people who started to become aware of the world during or after Reagan have been brainwashed into believing all of the problems in our major industries are the fault of the "greedy unions". I, as a strong pro-union person though working in the high tech field that is only now seeing the first efforts at organizing, find this belief bizarre, yet this is a strongly held perception... that these companys have been victims of the unions, that the unions forced them to continue building non-competitive products, forced them into insanely generous retirement and benefit plans, and this is why all of our industry is bankrupt.
I find it hard to remind these young people of the many things we take for granted that came about due to the hard and difficult struggles of the unions. I have a very close friend who is president of a major union in NY who is strongly advocating that consulting contracts be ended, instead having work done by the highly skilled public employees already in the employ of the state. Yet none of this makes even the smallest dent in this rabid anti-union attitude that has been sewn by Reagan and his cohorts!
Bush pardons 14 and commutes 2 prison sentences
Nov 24 06:50 PM US/Eastern
By DEB RIECHMANN
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - President George W. Bush has granted pardons to 14 individuals and commuted the prison sentences of two others, The Associated Press learned Monday. The new round of White House pardons are Bush's first since March and come less than two months before he will end his presidency. The crimes committed by those on the list include drug offenses, income tax evasion, bank embezzlement and violation of the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act.
Bush has been stingy during his time in office about handing out such reprieves.
Including these actions, he has granted a total of 171 and eight commutations. That's less than half as many as Presidents Clinton or Reagan issued during their time in office. Both were two-term presidents.
On the latest pardon list were:
_Leslie Owen Collier of Charleston, Mo.
_Milton Kirk Cordes of Rapid City, S.D.
_Richard Micheal Culpepper of Mahomet, Ill.
_Brenda Jean Dolenz-Helmer of Fort Worth, Texas.
_Andrew Foster Harley of Falls Church, Va.
_Obie Gene Helton of Rossville, Ga.
_Carey C. Hice Sr. of Travelers Rest, S.C.
_Geneva Yvonne Hogg of Jacksonville, Fla.
_William Hoyle McCright Jr. of Midland, Texas.
_Paul Julian McCurdy of Sulphur, Okla.
_Robert Earl Mohon Jr. of Grant, Ala.
_Ronald Alan Mohrhoff of Los Angeles.
_Daniel Figh Pue III of Conroe, Texas.
_Orion Lynn Vick of White Hall, Ark.
Bush also commuted the prison sentences of John Edward Forte of North Brunswick, N.J., and James Russell Harris of Detroit.
Under the Constitution, the president's power to issue pardons is absolute and cannot be overruled...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94LJ1980&show_article=1
Ladies and gentlemen, let the cussing begin...
From the Party that gave us Larry Craig and Tom Foley, now we have them going after a man whose daughter was kidnapped saying he's too soft on crime concerning children....
Republicans Turn to Dirty Tactics in Georgia
Posted by Steve Benen
Washington Monthly
November 23, 2008.
Of all the issues Republicans could have picked, this has to be the most offensive.
The polls must be pretty close in Georgia's runoff election for the U.S. Senate, because the right, true to form, is aiming pretty low.
Over the last few days, both the National Republican Senatorial Committee and a far-right group called Freedom's Watch have both launched ads attacking Democrat Jim Martin for being "soft on crime." More specifically, the conservatives insist that Martin has opposed measures that would crack down on criminals who prey on children.
Of all the issues Republicans could have picked, this has to be the most offensive -- Martin's daughter was kidnapped when she was just eight years old. She was, fortunately, returned to the family safely, but Martin has a more personal background when it comes to crimes against children than most of us would even care to imagine.
With that in mind, the Martin campaign released this ad and a fact-sheet documenting Martin's extensive record on penalties for criminals and protections for children.
One wonders if, perhaps, the right-wing attacks on this go a little too far, and might backfire, just as the Liddy Dole "godless" ad had the opposite of the desired effect in North Carolina earlier this month.
Then again, there is a track record to consider. Saxby Chambliss won a first term with an offensive ad smearing Max Cleland on national security.
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/election08/108305/
Let us hope that Georgians have seen enough of this sort of negative Republican advertising which untruthfully attacks the victim.
On the latest pardon list were:
—Leslie Owen Collier of Charleston, Mo. She was convicted for unauthorized use of a pesticide and violating the Bald and Golden Eagle Protection Act.
—Milton Kirk Cordes of Rapid City, S.D. Cordes was convicted of conspiracy to violate the Lacey Act, which prohibits importation into the country of wildlife taken in violation of conservation laws.
—Richard Micheal Culpepper of Mahomet, Ill., who was convicted of making false statements to the federal government.
—Brenda Jean Dolenz-Helmer of Fort Worth, Texas, for reporting or helping cover up a crime.
—Andrew Foster Harley of Falls Church, Va. Harley was convicted of wrongful use and distribution of marijuana and cocaine.
—Obie Gene Helton of Rossville, Ga., whose offense was unauthorized acquisition of food stamps.
—Carey C. Hice Sr. of Travelers Rest, S.C., who was convicted of income tax evasion.
—Geneva Yvonne Hogg of Jacksonville, Fla., convicted of bank embezzlement.
—William Hoyle McCright Jr. of Midland, Texas, who was sentenced for making false entries, books, reports or statements to a bank.
—Paul Julian McCurdy of Sulphur, Okla., who was sentenced for misapplication of bank funds.
—Robert Earl Mohon Jr. of Grant, Ala., who was convicted of conspiracy to distribute marijuana.
—Ronald Alan Mohrhoff of Los Angeles, who was convicted for unlawful use of a telephone in a narcotics felony.
—Daniel Figh Pue III of Conroe, Texas, convicted of illegal treatment, storage and disposal of a hazardous waste without a permit.
—Orion Lynn Vick of White Hall, Ark., who was convicted of aiding and abetting the theft of government property.
Bush also commuted the prison sentences of John Edward Forte of North Brunswick, N.J., and James Russell Harris of Detroit, Mich. Both were convicted of cocaine offenses.
Under the Constitution, the president's power to issue pardons is absolute and cannot be overruled.
Some high-profile individuals, such as Michael Milken, are seeking a pardon on securities fraud charges. Two politicians convicted of public corruption — former Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, R-Calif., and four-term Democratic Louisiana Gov. Edwin W. Edwards — are asking Bush to shorten their prison terms.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97429232
NPR lists their offenses that were pardoned. I wonder why there were so many dopeheads in this list? Hmmmmm....
Sally-* on November 24, 2008 at 06:37 PM
I'll put the Democratic base's intelligence up against the Republican base any day of the week. Go read your polls again, Sally. McCain's only majorities came with under-educated (i.e. HS Diploma or less) white people from Applachia.
Sally-* on November 24, 2008 at 06:42 PM
Sen. Coleman (R-MN) picked up a hundred votes? How; off the printer in the trunk of his Cadillac?
Marc on November 24, 2008 at 06:20 PM
Marc,
Maybe it's time that "Norma Rae" was played again...on MTV and the Disney Channel? Or better yet, a number of new feature films need to be created that show the human drama that is now being forced on the working man and woman in this country?
Have you seen those corporate industry ads targeting the secret ballot for union creation votes? The Far Right is sparing no money trying to cloud the issues. The way they tell it, it's all about the way the ballots are to be cast not about why there is such an urgent need for organizing labor.
It's the same sort of scapegoating the Republicans used to paint liberals as irresponsible while the conservatives worked their villainy under the radar. The Unions need to fight back and get their people on the talk shows aggressively tying the current economic meltdown where it belongs with the corporate crooks.
One needs to take forceful action against these propaganda blitzes. Get angry and then get rough. Media train and then put you rank and file members out on the local and national media tour outlets. Let them tell their personal stories. These actions will speak far louder than any of their lies.
We have them on the rug. It's now time to take it outside and beat it.
SandyH on November 24, 2008 at 06:33 PM
It's GA, Sandy. Don't bet on it. GA is not exactly known to be a beacon for intellectuals.
BobVADemocratHawk on November 24, 2008 at 06:47 PM
So who are these people? Were they chosen because their Republican reps were owed a favor by Bush or were they chosen randomly by computer to make Spunky look like Bush the Merciful?
marymac_memphis on November 24, 2008 at 06:13 PM
Hello Mary. It's good to see you again. Once we get our "house" back in order, perhaps we can go back to helping the world out. But until then, the world must learn to fend for itself.
hi SWIRLYEYEDObuthead are you sally or steveie
your racist old man with a friends other then these other three gay friends cactus ,turd head and sally
Evening All: Sandy, I was not aware that H. Wilson was retiring but if that is the case, not a moment too soon!
Also, did anyone take the civics test that I referenced above?
Bob, Sandy, anyone?
Foes of stem cell research now face tough battle
Obama is expected to lift restrictions on federal money for such research
When the Bush presidency ends, opponents of embryonic stem cell research will face a new political reality that many feel powerless to stop.
President-elect Barack Obama is expected to lift restrictions on federal money for such research. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., also has expressed interest in going ahead with legislation in the first 100 days of the new Congress if it still is necessary to set up a regulatory framework.
"We may lose it, but we're going to continually fight it and offer the ethical alternative," said Rep. Joe Pitts, R-Pa. "I don't know what the votes will be in the new Congress ... but it's very possible we could lose this thing."...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27889729/
You bet your knuckle-dragging dumb arse you're going to lose this vote, Rep. Pitts. It's time for America to come out of the dark ages of GOP control. This is the 21st century. Now go chase a dinosaur.
marymac_memphis on November 24, 2008 at 07:10 PM
mary,
I got three wrong or got 90.3% right. I had two question I was torn between to answers and chose the wrong one. The only question I had no idea about was the one about trade and productivity.
marymac_memphis on November 24, 2008 at 07:10 PM
I did. I got 30 out of 33. What bothers me is this: http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/2008/additional_finding.html , which shows elected officials score lower than average Americans.
palinclown on November 24, 2008 at 07:37 PM
Darn near anything the GOP gets a hold of turns into a failure. None the less, our turn begins again on 20JAN09. We've got two years to get the economy turned around and fix W's giant mess before the sheeple become involved again. I hope it's enough time.
palinclown on November 24, 2008 at 07:34 PM
Another economist and/or progressive knocked George Will down this week.
This is what I was telling Marc. The Unions have to go after these bastards when they start lying. Hit the conservatives between the eyes with the truth and dare them to repute it with facts.
Facts they don't deal with so they're vulnerable in any debate. Go after them. Don't accept arguments and opinions as facts.
Good night fellow Democrats. Keep the Faith and keep the faith. Yes we can, yes we will, and yes we did!
BobVADemocratHawk on November 24, 2008 at 07:54 PM
Bob,
Just knowing the truth about how far gone the system has been allowed to deteriorate will give Obama a good idea of what actions are needed and how bold his economic plan must be.
Internally, probably a lot of the mess can be cleaned up by canceling all private contracting firms that the Republicans have installed. These profiteers never even tried to do a good job. They were just part of the Republican Welfare for the Wealthy system.
Then you take over all the banks, fire the top executives, and talk to middle management. They probably have workable business plans that the crooked speculators running these firms didn't ever want to hear about.
Some of this is elementary. The rest will take bold innovation and a lot encouragement be the Chief Executive to reap tangible results.
I hope Obama's enforcers have a lot of chits to call in on Capitol Hill to make this thing move quickly. Then they'll have to put some strong- armed muscle on the Republicans who want to act like barriers to any bi-partisan bills Obama can work out with the responsible on the other side of the asile.
But we can't be nice guys with obstructionists. Those who don't see the seriousness of the situation will have to be made aware of it...or live with the consequences. There are always harsh consequences for those playing games in a reality-based world.
I'm got some reading to do. Catch you all tomorrow.
Good night, all.
Bob, Sandy - thank you for taking the test - we all did about the same and I'll bet we all had the same problem with the same questions - the economic questions, which were completely off subject and phrased in a neo-conservative, republican manner!
Sally-* on November 24, 2008 at 08:01 PM
Who is Colmes? Was he the paper weight on Hannity's desk?
marymac_memphis on November 24, 2008 at 08:17 PM
mary,
I suspect that we were torn on the same questions because we don't trust the very economic principles that were thrust upon us in the last 15 years by the Contract with America.
Productivity is one of those words the Repugs used to cover up what they were really doing...acting like pirates. Johnny Depp may really have been really basing his character on Newt Gingrich....or a drunken George W?
Johnny Depp may really have been really basing his character on Newt Gingrich....or a drunken George W?
115
SandyH on November 24, 2008 at 08:27 PM
Ain't it the truth!
But, you know in a way I'm almost glad that this finally happened because the lying hypocrits are finally being exposed for who and what they are and people who bought into the Ray-gun myth are starting to open their eyes. The middle class has been taken advantage of for so long that many still don't fully understand what has happened to them. A friend/business associate came by last week and told me that he and his family had been forced into bankruptcy but he still defended Bush and the re-THUGS. He went so far as to actually say that Bush will go down in history as one of the three - if not the greatest- presidents of all time. Can you believe it? I like him alot - but what a fool!
This is a great over-view of what has happened over the last 8 long years!
The American Worker
Friday 21 November 2008
by: Rick Kepler, t r u t h o u t | Perspective
I am an American worker, and you are damn right I want the wealth to be shared and spread. I am talking about the wealth my hard work helped to create, but was taken from me by George Bush's base, the very rich, or as I know them, my corporate bosses. For the past eight years I have watched W.'s and McCain's (Country Club First) base grab the largest share of our country's wealth. Where did they take it from? They took it from my family's pocketbook, and my co-workers' families' pocketbooks. They stole the wealth that I was trying to build for me and my family when they stripped my pension plan from me and told me to invest in a 401k. Then they stole most of that 401k and other workers' 401k savings with this economic meltdown. This was a massive transfer of wealth from the workers' pockets into the already stuffed pockets of the rich. My retirement savings and my coworkers' savings all across America have been looted by the corporate bosses, who just got bailed out while we got left out. Again!
The American worker, whether black, brown, white, red, yellow, or rainbow color, has been fleeced over these past eight years. We are the ones who go to work every day. We don't own our places of work, nor do we help manage them. We just go in and do the job. And we must be doing one hell of a good job because we are told that we are the most productive workers in the world. We are working longer and harder, but our paychecks keep shrinking! Where are those productivity gains going then? Not into our pockets. Our standard of living has been going down these past eight years ($2,000 less in family income since W. took office) This is another damn transfer of wealth into the hands of the extremely rich.
Their greed is insatiable. Take our family's health care. They do. They keep passing on their increased costs to us, or they just drop coverage for the worker completely. That means we either join the 50,000,000 who have no health care, or we end up having to buy it privately, thus eating up a huge portion of our family's income. If we manage to hang onto our health care plans, our deductibles, co-pays, and out-of-pay contributions keep skyrocketing. This amounts to another massive transfer of wealth from our pockets into the overflowing pockets of our corporate bosses.
The list goes on for the American worker. We saw overtime pay stripped from millions of workers during this past nightmare eight years. The worker was still working overtime, but due to a new "boss law" passed by W. and McCain's party that assists these thieves, the workers didn't receive overtime pay because they were declared exempt. They also weakened the workers' health and safety standards or just plain didn't enforce the laws already on the books. As a result, the American worker pays the price in lost days due to accidents from unsafe conditions or from lingering, expensive illnesses suffered from unhealthy working conditions. This too is a massive transfer of wealth from our pockets into our corporate bosses' bulging pockets.
To further sweeten their own pots, they took full-time jobs and converted them to part-time with no benefits, or they just made their employees line up and reapply for their exact same jobs at half the pay. Are we beginning to see what a true transfer of wealth looks like? So, do I want to see a spreading of the wealth? You bet your sweet hind-end I do. But all I ask of Obama is to give me and my co-workers the ability to retrieve some of the wealth that has been stolen from us.
Strengthen the laws that give workers the right to organize and bargain for a contract with our bosses. The current laws on the books have been torn to shreds by W. and McCain on behalf of their base. This is just part of their attack on American workers. Under globalization, the bosses seek a much cheaper workforce, which always means non-union, which means "can't fight back." That is why they have gutted the laws that protect workers. The laws that once gave us a level playing field with our bosses have been rendered useless, including our legal right to strike. That law said I had a right to strike, and could.
The American worker doesn't want a handout. Never did. We do want a hand up from our government. We still believe and have hope that this is a government of, by and for the people. We do want to know that our government will finally stand with us against this onslaught, this Robin Hood in reverse, being conducted by the bosses against the workers. The bosses know that W. and McCain have been on their side for the past eight years - and so do we workers. We just want our government to now stand on our side as we stand up against this corporate attempt to create third world working conditions right here in America. Restore our right to fight for a better living for ourselves and our families, and let the power of pissed-off workers, united in struggle, spread corporate America's stolen wealth back into the pockets of those whose pockets got picked these last eight years - the American worker.
hello, roberts
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-obama-economy23-2008nov23,0,1304001.story
Obama pumps up his economic stimulus proposal
Evening Esme! I hope that you are doing well tonight!
Has anyone heard anything about Minnesota? They were hand-counting earlier today but that is the last that I heard.
Evening all good Dems.
It has been a beautiful sunny day which hit a high of 61.
This morning on NPR radio news they were commenting about the judges requiring bush to release several Chinese - I think it was Chinese - prisoners who have been held at Guantanamo (Auschwitz West) xithout charges for the last seven years.
bush will not let them go home because he says they would be persecuted by the Chinese government. WTF have they been subjected to for the last seven f'ing years? Give me a break.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aB6h8oowkQto
Obama Will Get Stimulus Bill First Day, Democrats Say
peaceful rest, roberts everywhere.
Should not shepherds feed the sheep? You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, you slaughter the fatlings; but you do not feed the sheep. You have not strengthened the weak, you have not healed the sick, you have not bound up the injured, you have not brought back the strayed, you have not sought the lost, but with force and harshness you have ruled them.
- Ezekiel 34:2-4
Obama Will Get Stimulus Bill First Day, Democrats Say
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Esmeralda on November 24, 2008 at 09:01 PM
It's a shame we can't get it sooner than 1/20/09. I wish there was some way to 'force' Bush and his entire administration to just step-aside and go home, or to prison - even better!
hello mary & johne and everyrobert in-between.
I'm doing good. time for beauty sleep.
enjoy the evening.
hannity is such a lying sack of liquid crap. He was complaining about Obama which is nothing new. He said that raygun created more jobs than any other president, 20 million because of his tax cuts. What a laugh. Ke is a bold-faced liar. raygun barely created 17,000,000 jobs mostly at macdonalds, burger king and others.
Here are the facts on Bill Clinton:
"We have to continue in Washington to fight for the right to organize and to function in a union that will permit you to have a life you enjoy.
President Bill Clinton, March 18, 1998 Creating More Jobs and a Stronger Economy Over 22 million new jobs created by the American economy more new jobs than Presidents Reagan and Bush created during their three terms Lowest unemployment in more than 30 years, and lowest African American and Hispanic unemployment ever. Lowest poverty rate since 1979 Fastest and largest real wage growth in more than 30 years Most rapid growth in construction jobs in 50 years Lowest inflation rate since the 1960s Better Lives for all..."
President Clinton and Vice President Gore Working for Working Families.
Goodnight Essie,
bush was bragging today that he had a good talk with Obama on how he thinks he should handle the economy.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
bush doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground.
What a laugh.
hannity is such a lying sack of liquid crap.
Yep - that's true.
sally is insane and swirlybut to he comes in as four people to keep him selfs company
sally is insane and swirlybut to he comes in as four people to keep him selfs company
Reaganomics after Twenty Years
George J. Viksnins
Georgetown University
In terms of economic accomplishments, perhaps the most significant positive aspect of the Reaganomics program of lower taxes and regulatory reforms is the tremendous increase in employment. The atmosphere of expansion and innovation created by the Reagan program continued to affect economic activity in the next decade as well. It is estimated that 24 million new jobs have been created in the 1980-1995 period in the U.S. – compared to only about 9 million in the European Union, which has a one-third larger population than America. After the 1981-82 recession (inherited in large part from the Carter years), and largely caused by the Fed hitting the monetary brakes very hard, real GDP rose by about four percent per year in the 1982-88 period.
CACTUSBARRACK thie who things is full of shit we had some debt during the raygan and bush years that clinton pay back now were back to being in debt a again obama will pay back the debt well be growing our econemy again
Poor Sandy,
Can't remember the 1970s, don't worry, Obama plans to rerun 1976 thru 1980 for you.
Was it a drug problem that made you black out the Carter years?
144CACTUSBARRACK no obama will run the clinton years 93 to 2001
raygun sucked as president.
Only after the huge Reagan recession -- made worse by utterly failed Reagan "Voodoo Economics" - did Democrats regain some control in Congress. They halted some Reagan initiatives, but couldn't do much on their own. That was a time of gridlock.
Six years into Reagan's presidency, Democrats retook the Senate, and began to reverse some of Reagan's horrendous policies. By that time, Reaganomics had "accomplished" quite a bit: doubled the national debt, caused the S&L crisis, and nearly wrecked the financial system.
This is utterly absurd. Economic growth indices -- GDP, jobs, revenues -- were all positive when Carter left office. All plunged after Reagan policies took effect.
Reagan didn't cure inflation, the main economic problem during the Carter years. Carter's Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker tried when he raised interest rates. That's the opposite of what Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan has done to keep inflation low.
Carter's policies and people fought inflation, but maintained real growth. On the other hand, Reagan's policies helped cause the worst recession since the Great Depression: two bleak years with nearly double-digit unemployment! Reaganomics failed in less than a year, and it took an entire second year for the economy to recover from the failure.
Carter didn't cause the inflation problem, but his tough policies and smart personnel solved it. Unfortunately for Carter, it took too long for the good results to kick in. Not only didn't Reagan help whip inflation, he actually opposed the Volcker policies.
Here's the truth: the total federal tax burden increased during the Reagan years, and most Americans paid more in taxes after Reagan than before. The "Reagan Recovery" was unremarkable. It looks great only contrasted against the dismal Reagan Recession -- but it had nothing to do with Supply Side voodoo.
With a red ink explosion -- $300 BILLION deficits looming as far as the eye could see -- GOP Senators, notably including Bob Dole, led the way on tax hikes. The economy enjoyed its recovery only after total tax increases larger than the total tax cuts were implemented. Most importantly, average annual GDP growth during the Reagan 80s was lower than during the Clinton 90s or the JFK-LBJ 60s!
More................
The Real Reagan Legacy
Reagan. Reagan took credit for others' hard word and hard choices, and blamed them for his failures. Reagan even blamed Jimmy Carter for Reagan's foolish, fatal, and reckless decision to leave 243 Marines stationed in Beirut, helpless and unguarded.
Reagan hired over 100 crooks to run our government, and broke several laws himself. His policies were almost uniformly self-defeating, wrong-headed, immoral and unfair.
Reagan was an actor playing the part of the president. He was style over substance; lucky, not good.
And once the myths are stripped from the "legacy", the truth becomes obvious: Reagan was by far the most overrated man in American history.
sally your dreaming obama is letting bush tax cuts expire for the rich and giveing 95 percent of the worker a tax cut
"SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — California officials will investigate whether the Mormon church accurately described its role in a campaign to ban gay marriage in the state.
The California Fair Political Practices Commission said Monday a complaint by a gay rights group merits further inquiry.
Executive director Roman Porter says the decision does not mean any wrongdoing has been determined.
Fred Karger, founder of Californians Against Hate, accuses the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints of failing to report the value of work it did to support Proposition 8, which amended California's constitution to define marriage exclusively as a union between a man and woman.
A representative from the Salt Lake City-based church could not be reached for comment."
it's way past time to start relieving churches that take political sides of their tax exempt status. as far as i am concerned that cardinal who said catholic obama voters had sinned canceled his domains right to the exemption. and what better way to pay for the bailout of the bush economy than by taxing these busy bodies?
Morning gregg,
You're damned right we should tax these busybodies.
Detroit should be retooled to produce Hydrogen cars using fuel cells. Los Angeles already has several Hydrogen stations and some automobiles that run on Hydrogen.
Of course it would take a crash program to install Hydrogen pumps nationwide and would take some time.
I believe it is possible to produce Hydrogen can be produced at the pump using the current technology.
If we can solve the battery problems, we could have Detroit produce electric cars too. Lithium is not a common mineral and we would be importing vast amounts of Lithium in order to produce the batteries.
hey johne, i'm doing research for a course i am teaching and i stumbled onto this video clip. i figure that as we move from a national leadership that felt it had transcended reality and was privy to knowing what god wanted to a leadership that seems to value information and research this gentleman's perspective might be useful to review:
Good morning,
Must be vacation week.
The too-big bank that wanted it all now wants to leave a little mess with dupish taxpayers:
--------
Citi plans 'good bank, bad bank' structure
By Henny Sender and Greg Farrell in New York and Andrew,Ward in Washington
Citigroup is working on a plan to stabilise the bank that is expected to include transferring tens of billions of dollars in distressed assets to a government-owned vehicle for at least several years, people familiar with matter said yesterday.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/99ba223c-b9c8-11dd-99dc-0000779fd18c.html?nclick_check=1
This should produce Citi and Shiti banks. And guess which one our government gets to handle? I ain't buying it.
(I didn't make this shiti word up, btw.)
boy have we waited a long time for this kind of perspective on how to deal with problems. to listen to rush and shelby and all the other right wing nuts if you just let the economy crash and shrink government and never do anything to fix our infrastructure the magic gremlins of ayn rand land will fix it all for us....those days be long gone thank the universe....
Nov. 25 (Bloomberg) -- President-elect Barack Obama, encouraged by congressional Democrats, will propose early next year an economic-stimulus package three times larger than one he was discussing only weeks ago, with the main focus on infrastructure, aides and lawmakers said.
The package, aimed at ending the worst U.S. economic slump in at least a quarter-century, probably won’t be submitted until January, giving up any chance of passing a stimulus plan during a lame-duck session of Congress next month.
An infusion of as much as $700 billion is warranted, according to Senator Dick Durbin of Illinois, the No. 2 ranking Democrat in the Senate and Obama’s closest ally in Congress. The plan would create jobs and boost sales at companies including Caterpillar Inc., the largest maker of construction equipment, and engineering firm Fluor Corp.
“You better stimulate with a number that will create measurable economic growth,” Durbin said in an interview.
Obama, who said during a press conference yesterday that he had to deal with an “economic crisis of historic proportions,” declined to give a range for the new package he favors. Still, he made Durbin’s point that it will have to be big enough to restore confidence.
The spending will be “of a size and scope that is necessary to get this economy back on track” and “significant enough that it really gives a jolt to the economy,” he said. ...
U.S. Pledges Top $7.7 Trillion to Ease Frozen Credit (Update2)
By Mark Pittman and Bob Ivry
Nov. 24 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. government is prepared to provide more than $7.76 trillion on behalf of American taxpayers after guaranteeing $306 billion of Citigroup Inc. debt yesterday. The pledges, amounting to half the value of everything produced in the nation last year, are intended to rescue the financial system after the credit markets seized up 15 months ago.
The unprecedented pledge of funds includes $3.18 trillion already tapped by financial institutions in the biggest response to an economic emergency since the New Deal of the 1930s, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The commitment dwarfs the plan approved by lawmakers, the Treasury Department’s $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. Federal Reserve lending last week was 1,900 times the weekly average for the three years before the crisis.
When Congress approved the TARP on Oct. 3, Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson acknowledged the need for transparency and oversight. Now, as regulators commit far more money while refusing to disclose loan recipients or reveal the collateral they are taking in return, some Congress members are calling for the Fed to be reined in.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&refer=home&sid=arEE1iClqDrk
The looting will continue until there is no credit, zip to fund any progressive programs. And will continue until the war economy is above criticism because it is the only sector with jobs left.
Bang bang, that awful sound.
147
Johne on November 24, 2008 at 11:41 PM
I remember Reagan as the asshole who dumped me and a lot of other people who were in CETA Title 4 program, where the government gave you job training, out on the streets without letting people complete their programs.
I took the training what I had received, fortunately I was almost through the program, got a decent job, got off welfare, which I was on because my ex refused to pay child support(Republican judges don't believe in enforcing child support either) and also managed to parlay that training into a promotion in the Army Reserve.
I figure the taxes I've payed since then have way more than covered the cost of the tools and training that I got under the program.
Reagan claimed that the CETA programs (another of the programs helped small towns afford more cops) were a waste of money, and so he killed them off, dumped people out on the street, and then tried to do away with welfare, during the Reagan Recession! With some on the big businesses laying off people! Reagan was a vicious butt head.
I did have the satisfaction of getting a job, through the recommendation of the automotive program director, while some of my neighbors who had looked down their noses at me were having to go on unemployment and food stamps. The best revenge is success!
Hey!
When do we get a new open thread?
The longer the thread gets the wonkier the server acts.
Besides we need to change the elephant poop.
Mornin' Dems. I see the seeping ooze was removed from the thread.
Thanks Matt.
Left Out of the Bailout: The Poor
By MARK KUKIS 2 hrs 31 mins ago
As the roster of corporations and financial institutions on line for government bailouts seems to grow, some public policy advocates in Washington D.C. are calling on policymakers to focus more efforts on the nation's poorest. The ranks of the destitute are growing quietly but alarmingly as much of the world focuses on troubles surrounding Wall Street. "Recent data show poverty is already rising quite substantially," says Robert Greenstein, the executive director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. "There is a strong potential for more hardship and destitution than we have seen in this country in a number of decades."
Greenstein's center released a new study on Monday projecting a sharp rise in the number of people living below the poverty line, which is roughly $21,200 annually for a family of four according to Department of Health and Human Services. An estimated 36.5 million Americans currently live below the poverty line, but those numbers will likely increase by as many as 10.3 million if current projections for the depth and duration of the recession hold true. According to the center's analysis, the number of poor children will grow by as many as 3.3 million. And the number of children in deep poverty, those in families living on less than half the wages of the official poverty line, will climb by as many as 2 million. (See pictures from John Edwards' tour of poverty-stricken America.)
Signs of the recession's impact on America's impoverished are increasingly apparent, Greenstein said, pointing to a dramatic rise in food stamp caseloads in recent months. The number of people using food stamps has risen 9.6%, or roughly 2.6 million people, between August 2007 and August 2008, the last period for which data are available. Food banks around the country are reporting longer lines even as donations are falling.
"Haven't We Already Given Money To Rich People," Asks Puppet Bush?
"The Price of Loyalty," the book by a former Wall Street Journal reporter [Ron Suskind] draws on interviews with high-level officials who gave the author their personal accounts of meetings with the president, their notes and documents.
But the main source of the book was [former Bush Sec. of Treasury] Paul O'Neill. Correspondent Lesley Stahl reports....
"The thing that's most surprising, I think, is how emphatically, from the very first, the administration had said X during the campaign, but from the first day was often doing Y," says Suskind. "Not just saying Y, but actively moving toward the opposite of what they had said during the election."
The president had promised to cut taxes, and he did. Within six months of taking office, he pushed a trillion dollars worth of tax cuts through Congress. But O'Neill thought it should have been the end. After 9/11 and the war in Afghanistan, the budget deficit was growing. So at a meeting with the vice president after the mid-term elections in 2002, Suskind writes that O'Neill argued against a second round of tax cuts.
"Cheney, at this moment, shows his hand," says Suskind. "He says, 'You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter. We won the mid-term elections, this is our due.' O'Neill is speechless."
"It was not just about not wanting the tax cut. It was about how to use the nation's resources to improve the condition of our society," says ONeill. "And I thought the weight of working on Social Security and fundamental tax reform was a lot more important than a tax reduction."
" Did he think it was irresponsible? Well, it's for sure not what I would have done," says ONeill.
The former treasury secretary accuses Vice President Dick Cheney of not being an honest broker, but, with a handful of others, part of "a praetorian guard that encircled the president" to block out contrary views. "This is the way Dick likes it," says ONeil....
Everything came to a head for O'Neill at a November 2002 meeting at the White House of the economic team.
"It's a huge meeting. You got Dick Cheney from the, you know, secure location on the video. The President is there," says Suskind, who was given a nearly verbatim transcript by someone who attended the meeting.
He says everyone expected Mr. Bush to rubber stamp the plan under discussion: a big new tax cut. But, according to Suskind, the president was perhaps having second thoughts about cutting taxes again, and was uncharacteristically engaged.
"He asks, 'Haven't we already given money to rich people? This second tax cut's gonna do it again,'" says Suskind.
"He says, 'Didnt we already, why are we doing it again?' Now, his advisers, they say, 'Well Mr. President, the upper class, they're the entrepreneurs. That's the standard response.' And the president kind of goes, 'OK.' That's their response. And then, he comes back to it again. 'Well, shouldn't we be giving money to the middle, won't people be able to say, 'You did it once, and then you did it twice, and what was it good for?'"
But according to the transcript, White House political advisor Karl Rove jumped in.
"Karl Rove is saying to the president, a kind of mantra. 'Stick to principle. Stick to principle.' He says it over and over again," says Suskind. "Dont waver."
In the end, the president didn't. And nine days after that meeting in which O'Neill made it clear he could not publicly support another tax cut, the vice president called and asked him to resign.
With the deficit now climbing towards $400 billion, O'Neill maintains he was in the right. --60 Minutes, 01.11.04
Trickle-down economics... it don't work.
PERIOD. Can we please remember this when the republicans try it again? Can we please get the media to remember this and report on what happened the last two times we tried this trickle-down crap? It didn't work when Reagan tried it and it sure as hell didn't work for chimpy.
Here come the Oil Industry Speculators again.
Somehow my name got out as a multi-million dollar investor, I receive at least 2 or 3 calls a day asking me to invest in different markets.
This morning I received my first call in a long time asking me to invest in oil. The broker said, "now that oil prices are down again, its time to buy back those oil stocks, a $5000 dollar investment now will bring you 10 to 12k next spring."
They do this every year, and it is time to put an end to speculation. Once again the rich will suck the money right out of the American people.
We must work now to end our dependence on foreign oil. The auto industry, if they want to be bailed out, need to concentrate on building hybids and fuel efficient vehicles. This MUST be included in any deal made for any type of bailout.
I, for one, an sick and tired of being robbed by GM and the oil companies.
Just for the record, I did a little research on one Mr. George J. Viksnins. I found the article referenced by dufus above. Here are some interesting quotes from the article:
-----------------------------------------------
"That reference is to the distinct liberal bias of both the media and academe"
"For the liberal left, anything is allowed – except business transactions between consenting adults"
"Before returning to the nitty-gritty of economics and dry, boring statistics, Reagan’s greatest accomplishment was the decisive reversal of the Soviet triumph in rhetoric as well as reality"
"Going after the air traffic controllers and refusing to increase the minimum wage gave President Reagan lots of credibility in establishing the administration’s anti-inflation stance, which was also greatly bolstered by the actions of Chairman Volcker at the Federal Reserve."
"There was no massive rise in defense spending (E. Ray Canterberry says: “an explosion in military spending”) and few government social programs were subjected to a brutal slashing, despite what leftist authors continue to tell us"
"While Mr. Gore claims to have invented the “Internet,” it could more plausibly be argued that Reaganomics led to the expansion of “e-commerce"
"The liberal left is incensed by the rising incomes and wealth of the upper one percent"
------------------------------------------------
There are many more instances in the article of such partisan comments. These comments demonstrate that Mr. Viksnins is far less an "Economist" and far more a political hack seeking evidence lamely to raise up the sunken ship of Reaganomics. Any gold that ship may have contained, Mr. Viksnins, was long ago pilfered by far wiser and greedier men than yourself.
Hi Chicago - Happy Thanksgiving!
Here we go again, even more money for the ultra-rich and nothing for the middle class:
Fed throws fresh lifeline to financial system
By Mark Felsenthal 20 mins ago
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Federal Reserve threw a massive life-line to consumers on Tuesday with two new programs aimed at making it easier for them to obtain loans for homes, cars and on credit cards.
Under the new mortgage program, the Fed will buy up to $100 billion of debt issued by government-sponsored mortgage enterprises Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Federal Home Loan Banks. It will also buy up to $500 billion of mortgage securities backed by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Ginnie Mae.
The central bank also launched a $200 billion facility to support consumer finance, including student, auto, and credit card loans and loans backed by the federal Small Business Administration. This will lend to investors who hold securities backed by this debt.
The launch of the two programs lifted investor spirits and drove up the blue chip Dow Jones industrial average more than 100 points, or about 1.3 percent, within minutes of its open.
"One of the big problems we have is that there has been a lack of demand for debt. You have seen the market for securitized debt such as credit cards or student loans dry up completely," said Scott Brown, chief economist at Raymond James & Associates in St. Petersburg, Florida.
"Here is the Fed taking a bunch of debt out of the market," he said. "It should help unblock the credit markets."
The new mortgage-support facility was intended to strike at the collapsed housing market, the core of the United States' economic woes.
"This action is being taken to reduce the cost and increase the availability of credit for the purchase of houses, which in turn should support housing markets and foster improved financial conditions more generally," the Fed said.
Johne on November 25, 2008 at 09:36 AM
Detroit should be retooled to produce Hydrogen cars using fuel cells. Los Angeles already has several Hydrogen stations and some automobiles that run on Hydrogen.
Johne, hydrogen technology is so far from ever being viable on the mass scale you speak of it will be many years before it can be used even on a small scale. The amount of energy required to produce pure hydrogen far exceed the energy from the resultant hydrogen. And where must that energy come from to produce it? From power plants already running at or beyond capacity (remember the brown/black outs?)
Of course it would take a crash program to install Hydrogen pumps nationwide and would take some time.
It would take more than that, it would take a miracle.
I believe it is possible to produce Hydrogen can be produced at the pump using the current technology.
DO you have a reference source for that?
If we can solve the battery problems, we could have Detroit produce electric cars too. Lithium is not a common mineral and we would be importing vast amounts of Lithium in order to produce the batteries.
Lithium batteries require cobalt which is very hard to come by. It is not mines alone but as a byproduct of nickel mining. Nickle mining is extremely detrimental to the environment (look up the moonscape around Sudbury, Ontario). Cobalt is relatively scarce and primarily mined in countries all that friendly to America like Russia, some regions in China and the Congo.
Replacing petroleum based engines with lithium battery powered cars in hoes of reducing pollution and achieving freedom from foreign sourced fuels is a pipe dream.
Higher Gas Prices: The Failure of Free Markets and Reaganomics
http://www.peacecouncil.net/pnl/08/777/777gas.html
Replacing petroleum based engines with lithium battery powered cars in hoes of reducing pollution and achieving freedom from foreign sourced fuels is a pipe dream.
142LincolnParkLiberal on November 25, 2008 at 01:10 PM
"Pipe dream"? I think that is a little harsh.
It will take time, but we must move in a direction away from fossil fuels toward renewables. It will not happen over night. However, battery technology is improving in leaps and bounds. Look at laptops and cell phones of a few years ago. Electric cars are coming. With investment and American ingenuity, we will get there. But not if we label it a "pipe dream" and continue on as usual, down the same path.
That's not the change I voted for.
George J Viksnins
TitleProfessor Emeritus
DepartmentECONOMICS DEPARTMENT
Bio George J. Viksnins is Professor of Economics at Georgetown University, where he has been a member of the faculty since 1964. From 1976 to 1981, Dr. Viksnins was a Director of the FMI Financial Corporation. He has served as a consultant to the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, The World Bank, the Agency for International Development, and the International Monetary Fund. Dr. Viksnins has authored numerous articles and books, including The Economies of Southeast Asia in 1980 (G.U. Center for Strategic and International Studies, 1975), Financial Deepening in the ASEAN Countries (University of Hawaii Press, 1980), and Financing East Asia's Success (with Michael Skully, Macmillan in association with the American Enterprise Institute, 1987). He is currently a senior advisor to the Bank of Latvia. His latest publication is Economic Systems in Historical Perspective(Kendall/Hunt Publ. Co., 1997).
======================
I think I would take his word over yours anytime Robert.
As far as "chopping" up his paper to say what you wanted, whats new, LIAR.
CactusBarrack on November 25, 2008 at 01:32 PM
First of all, DUFUS, I'm "Chicago", not "Robert". I know your stupid, but I thought you could read.
Second, there are thousands of economists out there. You've managed to find one that is obviously a right-wing hack. Congratualations. Sorry if I burst your bubble by exposing him for what he obviously is. I simply provided his own words from the same article. I didn't do it for you. Dupes like you will always find excuses to let the top 1% keep their money in hopes that they might be able to grovel and get a minimum wage job. Dupes like you will always exist. Always have. The republican party continues to exist thanks to the combination of your loyalty and stupidity. I posted the quotes from the article for those on this blog who can think for themselves. Too bad that does not include you.
Poor stupid little republican dupe.
No, Robert,
you could not dispute the facts in the paper, so you weakly attack the man.
Just a stupid liberal.
Oh Robert,
22% liberal, thats all, don't forget it, you are a minority.
How did all this happen? The root of the problem can be traced back to the deregulation era that began during the Reagan administration. What George H.W. Bush once called "voodoo economics" fast became the biggest redistribution of wealth since the New Deal. The central article of faith in the "Reagan Revolution" was that money rerouted from the poor to the rich would produce a burst of productivity and economic growth. Give to the corporations and the wealthy, said the "supply side" economists, and they will invest the money in new factories, research and technology, and the country will be restored to greatness.
Did the theory work? Hardly. Rather than putting their money into jobs, research or equipment, the country’s biggest businesses went on the largest merger binge in history, buying up smaller companies in a trend that spelled less competition, less productivity, and more control of the economy in fewer hands. Multi-billion dollar corporate war chests were assembled to finance takeovers of large oil and coal companies, communications giants, and prestigious financial institutions.
BTW, Robert, I am a Democrat, I am NOT a liberal.
CactusBarrack on November 25, 2008 at 01:42 PM
Poor little Dufus Dan,
Cuts and pastes an article he found on some right-wing nut job site and now he thinks he understands economics.
AHHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHHAAH
Poor stupid little republican dupe.
Are you in the top 1%?????
Didn't think so.
Toward Freedom, a progressive perspective on world events.
www.towardfreedom.com
Duh...Robert, damn you are stupid.
I am a Democrat, I am NOT a liberal.
151CactusBarrack on November 25, 2008 at 01:45 PM
You're a lying A-Hole.
Remember when you typed this:
The democrats will lose in '08. They lied to make it in the '06 election and their campaign of doom and gloom will cost them in '08. America votes for winners not WHINERS.
Posted by D_Cactus_Weekend on November 9, 2007 at 08:38 PM
So if you ARE a Democrat, you ARE the STUPIDEST Demcorat I have ever heard from
Poor stupid little republican dupe.
I don't blame you for being ashamed to admit you are a republican.
22% Robert thats all you liberals are, you Do not even make 50% of the democratic party, dummy.
CactusBarrack on November 25, 2008 at 01:51 PM
Hey DUFUS,
Remember the election?
AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
Amazaing what a "minority" can do, ain't it?
AHHAHAHAHAA
Poor stupid little REPUBLICAN Dupe
BTW, Robert I have caught you chopping up posts before, YOU are a LIAR and a fraud just like pammy.
So Dufus,
Why are you ashamed to admit that you're a republican? Is it because you lost your ass in the last election or is it because of the impact your party has had on the health of this nation?
Just curious.
I remember the election, exit polls showed the economy was the issue, nothing else, not any liberal "pipe dreams".
So, get over yourself.
It will take time, but we must move in a direction away from fossil fuels toward renewables. It will not happen over night.
Chicago
Creating a new problem in order to eliminate another is a pipe dream. No technology currently exits to replace petroleum based engines and it will be decades or longer before it exists in a form that is practical.
If you want electric cars you;d better come up with a better way to create electricity.
I'm not like you Robert, I don't claim to be somthing I'm not.
Want some cutting edge" insight on new energy technology and where elctric cars would get power? Visit Edwin Black's website. Bush is leaving office - it's OK - you can come out of the dark ages now!!!
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