Morning Open Thread
Chat away...
Comments (92) «
I am writing to ask you not to support whatever type of bailout or rescue congress is asked to legislate in regards to the auto industry. The American auto industry has been making sub-par cars for years, while at the same time actively working to lower environmental standards and block research into alternative forms of auto energy. Let them fail: they are not failing b/c of the bad economy, but because of their poor products and bad business model. Instead, why not put together a package for pension support, unemployment and job retraining for the workers in this industry. Giving the auto groups a bail out will only temporarily stave off the massive loss of jobs that will occur someday when there are no bailouts left.
It isn't just about the auto sector. It's all the sub-contractors, and the grocery stores, restaurants, appliance stores, clothing stores, etc. that the auto workers buy from, and the banks that hold their car loans and mortgages. The auto makers may be failing, but the still represent a large chunk of the economy that we can't afford to have go down right now. We subsidize the auto industry, or we pay the money out in unemployment, food stamps, bail outs for mortgage holders, and lose an important manufacturing sector which will further weaken our ability to provide materiel for our national security.
maybe we should encourage alaska to secede?
updated 8:56 a.m. ET, Wed., Nov. 12, 2008
ANCHORAGE, Alaska - A week after Election Day, about 30 percent of the Alaska votes that will decide the fate of convicted U.S. Sen. Ted Stevens haven't been counted.
The Alaska Division of Elections expects to count most of the roughly 90,000 early, absentee ballots or questioned ballots remaining on Wednesday.
So that's where the Alaskan votes are! Demos have been scratching their heads about how the votes came out, they increased registration significantly and it appeared for a while that most of the new voters must have stayed away from the voting booth. It would be nice to put an end to Sarah Palin speculation about her future, we would prefer she doesn't have one outside of the great welfare state of Alaska after her hairbrain, nasty, attacks on our next President.
juan c think if he can shovel on a load of manure from right wing sites, a fact might grow, where none exist.
Good afternoon, all.
her hairbrain, nasty, attacks on our next President.
CalDemo on November 12, 2008 at 12:43 PM
Hairbrain is the operative word here.
If you missed our favorite DNC chair on TV this morning, here's the video. Howard Dean was great on Morning Joe. Good panel discussion.
Dean discusses the auto industry bailout and other things on Morning Joe.
I will miss him as chair, but he speaks so much more clearly now that he is leaving.
Afternoon all good Dems.
ferraille on November 12, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Instead of just handing over billions of taxpayer dollars to a bunch of rich assholes who are going to line their pockets with gold and provide a bunch of golden parachutes, why not just send every American Taxpayer a 'voucher' for $10,000 to $15,000 toward the purchase of a new 'american made' car. This would 'shore up' the auto manufacturers while providing American Taxpayers some 'bang for their buck.' At least we would get something (other than the shaft) out of the deal!
ahhhh...am i sensing some troll zapping this afternoon. too bad i was going to ask the troll how it knew how many terrorists had been killed. i am sure it had a direct line to the pentagon.
Afternoon all good Dems! I hope you are all doing well today. Who is sick of the Bush administration giving taxpayer money away???
I just don't get it. What is Paulson doing? Does he have any idea what's wrong or how to fix it?
Paulson: Government won't buy troubled bank assets
By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer Martin Crutsinger, Ap Economics Writer
WASHINGTON – The government has abandoned the original centerpiece of its $700 billion rescue effort for the financial system and will not use the money to purchase troubled bank assets.
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson said Wednesday that the administration will continue to use $250 billion of the program to purchase stock in banks as a way to bolster their balance sheets and encourage them to resume more normal lending. He also announced that the administration was looking at a major expansion of the program into the markets that provide support for credit card debt, auto loans and student loans.
Paulson said 40 percent of U.S. consumer credit is provided through selling securities that are backed by pools of auto loans and other such debt. He said these markets need support.
"This market, which is vital for lending and growth, has for all practical purposes ground to a halt," Paulson said...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown
Ground to a halt? Isn't that's where we were last month...or so we were told.
So Paulson was wrong? The sky was failing but not where he thought it was going to?
Why buy up stocks if Bush wants to go socialist? Just take them over and kick out the idiots who have been running them into the ground.
SandyH: I suspect it's their last chance to line the pockets of their 'friends' with gold before they are kicked out of office. Paulson cares nothing for the middle class, he just wants to 'funnel' as many taxpayer dollars upward to the richest 1 or 2%. If there was interest in helping the middle class, there would be programs that are not based on 'trickle down' economics. He knows that 'trickle down/supply side' is a complete failure, he just doesn't care.
And the troll circus continues. "Son of Stupid" gets zapped only to be replaced by the "Stupidest Man on Earth".
Hi DBDBD! How are you? I hope that you are well.
"I would be happy to get to do whatever is asked of me to help progress this nation."...sister palin..
so what is the deal with so many wing nuts using nouns as verbs...could this mean they were really sent here from another galaxy??
another galaxy??
17
gregg on November 12, 2008 at 02:04 PM
Prision Colony???? Clearing out their mental hospitals???
Hmmm Inquiring minds want to know!
Doin' fine, Marymac.
Paulson opened his mouth and let slip that the auto bailout isn't designed to help the companies or the workers, but to guarantee the golden parachutes of the management if they go belly up.
Ed Schultz just played the audio. I'm sure it'll be all over the innertoobz shortly.
Just more evidence that Bush and Co. are only interested in helping the richest of the rich and care nothing at all for the middle class!
New Federal Mortgage Plan Offers Relief to Only a Few
Tuesday 11 November 2008
»
by: Kevin G. Hall, McClatchy Newspapers
Washington - The Bush administration on Tuesday announced another plan to modify what it thinks will be hundreds of thousands of distressed mortgages held or backed by mortgage finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
But the plan, more than 15 months into a deep nationwide housing slump, is far short of the moratorium on foreclosures sought by President-elect Barack Obama and the Democrats who next year will have stronger control of Congress. It would help only a relatively small number of homeowners whose loans Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac packaged and resold to investors as so-called mortgage-backed securities and a still smaller number of homeowners whose loans Fannie Mae and freddie Mac have kept on their books.
In a briefing conducted on the condition of anonymity, officials involved in the plan acknowledged that it might reach only 200,000 or so homeowners next year. That's a fraction of the 2.8 million who are thought to face foreclosure this year.
The New Liberalism: How the Economic Crisis Can Help Obama Redefine the Democrats
Monday 17 November 2008
by: George Packer, The New Yorker
As Roosevelt did with the New Deal, Obama has represented different versions of moral leadership to different groups of voters.
In September, 1932, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the Democratic nominee for President, was asked by a reporter for his view of the job that he was seeking. "The Presidency is not merely an administrative office," Roosevelt said. "That's the least of it. It is more than an engineering job, efficient or inefficient. It is preëminently a place of moral leadership. All our great Presidents were leaders of thought at times when certain historic ideas in the life of the nation had to be clarified." He went down the list of what we would now call transformative Presidents: Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Wilson. (He also included Grover Cleveland, who hasn't aged as well.) Then Roosevelt asked, "Isn't that what the office is, a superb opportunity for reapplying-applying in new conditions-the simple rules of human conduct we always go back to? I stress the modern application, because we are always moving on; the technical and economic environment changes, and never so quickly as now. Without leadership alert and sensitive to change, we are bogged up or lose our way, as we have lost it in the past decade."
When the reporter pressed Roosevelt to offer a vision of his own historical opportunity, he gave two answers. First, he said, America needed "someone whose interests are not special but general, someone who can understand and treat the country as a whole. For as much as anything it needs to be reaffirmed at this juncture that the United States is one organic entity, that no interest, no class, no section, is either separate or supreme above the interests of all." But Roosevelt didn't limit himself to the benign self-portrait of a unifying President. "Moral leadership" had a philosophical component: he was, he said, "a liberal." The election of 1932 arrived at one of those recurring moments when "the general problems of civilization change in such a way that new difficulties of adjustment are presented to government." As opposed to a conservative or a radical, Roosevelt concluded, a liberal "recognizes the need of new machinery" but also "works to control the processes of change, to the end that the break with the old pattern may not be too violent."
"After Bailout, AIG Executives Head to Resort"
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/livecoverage/2008/10/after_bailout_aig_executives_h.html
It'd be better if they just stole the Whitehouse silverware!
tens of thousands of dead terrorists old fool.
21
Sally-* on November 12, 2008 at 02:09 PM
Prove it. Prove that there actually are 'tens of thousands of dead TERRORISTS." I'm well aware that there are tens of thousands of dead Iraqi people who would probably still be alive were it not for Bush's ego but that many dead terrorists, I don't buy it.
Mary, according to Chimpy we have already killed tens of thousands of al Qaeda Number 2's. And "The Stupidest Man on Earth" doesn't know any better, so he believes the alcoholic crack head.
That well water was tested when the well was drilled - she knows exactly what is in it unlike you who have not a clue.
19Sally-* on November 12, 2008 at 02:06 PM
you prove every single day, you are no more Mensa than my dog is! How the hell would you know anything about her well water, if that is even what she has!
No Wonder your party lost! Bunch of idiots with IQs the same as your belt size. (well not Danny----his belt is very large)
One of those 10,000 terriers must have done it, idiot.
Still too stupid to know the difference between "climate" and "weather"? Pathetic for a self proclaimed DENSA member.
Tell that to the tens of thousands of dead terrorists old fool
gee, I missed this news. Could I have some links where it said that there are tens of thousands of dead terrorists? Mostly I know are those that killed themselves in suicide bombings, and those were not that many.
I'd like you to put some links where your fat pie hole is, please!!! thank you.........
Bush Says He Regrets Use of Iraq `Mission Accomplished' Banner
Oh Geesh, remember this lie? It was all the ship, not Bush who did this. Our resident troll defended Bush for years over this one! Look at the rest of the lies he now admits.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bloomberg/20081112/pl_bloomberg/ahlrnlvfhsmc
Here comes Health Care Reform!
Big Healthcare Reform News
That this is coming from cautious, conservative, DLCish Max Baucus does indeed mean, as Krugman says, that it's looking much more likely that we have universal health care enacted in the next year.
Hey, the troll's hero indicates he may run again! Won't they be thrilled. If a Republican candidate is not corrupt nor criminal, then a good Pervert is always welcome!!!
Foley: I’m not a pedophile because the pages were almost 18.»
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/11/12/foley-interview/#comments
PamB on November 12, 2008 at 12:07 PM
Pam, I don't even believe there are more conservatives than liberals. i believe that there are a lot of people who don't actually understand what conservatism and progressivism actually are and only THINK they are conservatives. You know, like people who say "I believe in the Second Amendment, so I am conservative." Ummm, yeah, but you believe that we should preserve the natural world and help our neighbors and pay our fair share to keep the country going and that government is responsible for protecting us from harm, be it enemies foreign, domestic, bacterial, viral, or corporate...oh yeah, and make sure our children are safe from being shot while they are playing in their front yard and so you want to make sure people who shouldn't have them don't get their hands on guns...They say they're conservative? I think not. :)
And I could have SWORN I posted this morning on the other thread with a rephrasing of Pam's "combatting terrorism"?
Pam, he doesn't provide links because he knows that it is all bulllshit. FYI, he got that BS from ClownHall and the Ass of Spaz.
Will 10,000 Terrorists Killed Or Captured In Iraq In 2007 Lead The MSM News Tonight
As usual, these wingnuts never link to any reputable news source, but rather to each other's opinion blogs.
I'm surprised that he didn't use the Gasbag Pundit for this breaking "news" like he usually does.
Breaking news...
The US Attorney General has busted an illegal cartel consisting of Sharp, LG, and an unnamed Taiwanese company for price fixing co0llusion for the cost of LCD computer and cell phone screens. They face a fine of $600,000,000.00.
Prices for computers and cell phones should plummet because of this.
Class action suits are sure to follow. When Hitachi and a few other companies were busted for a similar price fixing scheme years ago, they were ALL banned from exporting their stuff to the US for several years.
DELTA TWP. - A radical gay rights group is claiming responsibility for a protest Sunday at Mount Hope Church in Delta Township.
Protesters who entered the Creyts Road church along with worshippers surprised the congregation when they stood up during the service, threw fliers at churchgoers and shouted slogans such as "It's OK to be gay," and "Jesus was a homo," according to David Williams, communications director at the church. His father, Dave Williams, is the church's longtime pastor. He was not preaching at the church Sunday.
Another group of protesters demonstrated outside the church at the same time as the indoor protest.
The Eaton County Sheriff's Department responded to the scene Sunday but no arrests were made...
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/article/20081112/NEWS01/811120369
Civil protests are one thing but this crosses the line by far, IMHO. For these people to interrupt a church service in this manner is beyond the pale. And before someone starts a stink about this, it would not have been OK had a church group barged in on a gay bar and started slinging Holy Water and Rosaries around either. The GLBT community will not garner any more support with incidents such as this.
43 The Stupidest Man On Earth ON NOVEMBER 12, 2008 AT 03:21 PM
BS. You posted a bunch of bullshit from a comments section of some right wing blog. I posted the actual news article from a real paper.
Your bullfest was deleted.
marymac_memphis on November 12, 2008 at 01:54 PM
Hi, mary.
I'm trying to finish a project, so I'm going to be dropping in and out. Didn't notice your remark till now.
So you think Paulson is just "spreading the wealth around" as many of the top 2% as he can? I think he'd like to do that but Paulson can't figure out the most efficient way of doing it.
Why am I using the word "efficient" in the same sentence with a Bush appointee incompetent? Haha.
Report: American Express seeking $3.5 billion as part of government bailout program
NEW YORK (AP) -- American Express Co. is seeking $3.5 billion in funds under the government's plan to directly invest in financial firms, according to a Wednesday report in The Wall Street Journal citing unnamed sources.
ADVERTISEMENT
Earlier this week, American Express received approval from the Federal Reserve to become a bank holding company, which is a similar structure to traditional commercial banks. The credit card company now has access to financing from the Fed and the ability to grow a large deposit base.
The increased funding opportunities through government programs, including the potential $3.5 billion investment, could be a huge boost to American Express as one of its primary sources of funding has nearly disappeared amid the ongoing credit crisis.
American Express relied on packaging pools of credit card debt and selling them to investors in the securitization market. As investors have shied away from purchasing all but the safest forms of debt, the market for credit card-backed securities has dwindled...
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081112/american_express_ahead_of_the_bell.html?.v=1
Not no but, hell no. Corporate welfare must end here and now. I am sick and tired of what few tax dollars I pay going to some Wall St. fat cat and his buddies when they're too incompetent to run their mouth much less a multi-billion dollar company. Federalize the whole damn lot of them.
Sally-* on November 12, 2008 at 02:06 PM
Since Palin used the same sub-contractors as Ted Stevens, we can all assume that everything was done to corrupt standards?
gee you really think in a city in alaska there would not be city sewers!!!??? you ARE mentally handicapped!
Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on November 12, 2008 at 02:08 PM
DPD,
This guy creeps me out. I would have fired him the first time he suggested the $700,000 billion bailout. Then I would have had the IRS audit his returns for the past 25 years.
Big_Yellow_Dog on November 12, 2008 at 03:40 PM
Gov. Jindall (R-LA) may be the GOP's best chance at showing diversity in their ranks however, the GOP rank and file will never elect him for the same reason that Democratic vote totals went up in every area of the nation except Applachia. Gov. Jindall will get crushed in the south, the rust belt, and the southern midwest (i.e. TX, NM, and AZ).
PamB on November 12, 2008 at 03:42 PM
Pam,
Palin certainly did her bit with insuring that there is no building permits. There's no telling how much toxic waste is being dumped in Wasilla.
BobVADemocratHawk on November 12, 2008 at 03:15 PM
Bob...prepare yourself.
I agree completely wiht your assessment of the situation. Although I will say that the interruption of a religious ceremony, no matter how odious the views of the particular church may be, is to me a little more significant than people disrupting the not so solemn events at a drinking establishment that caters to the LGBT community. :)
As for American Express...:sigh: I would boycott them, but they have the best reward points.
Sandy, he doesn't care about the American auto industry OR the workers. The best way to bust the Unions is to make sure there are no jobs to go to. Hell, GM can build all they want in China, Canada and Mexico and just pocket all the profits. Eventually people will HAVE to buy cars, so it will be a temporary cut in income offset by savings on labor.
The deal the autoworkers will be handed is "$6.00 per hour, no benefits, take it or leave it, or we shut the plant".
Bob: I am so sick of Bush, Paulson and their ilk bailing out the rich! I wonder, if they were to take that 700 Billion and distribute it to tax payers who make less than $250,000 per year, what would happen? Gee- the money would probably be used to - I dunno' maybe catch up some house notes, buy cars, or even just blow it. In any case, it would be in the public use and not sitting in the off-shore account of some billionaire. Taxes would be paid on every dollar spent, jobs would be created, companies would end up solvent and middle class tax payers would have something to show for it.
Foley: I’m not a pedophile because the pages were almost 18...
That's always the Republican's excuse of choice...I didn't "legally" do anything wrong...I was unfairly charged.
You wonder if these GOP perverts don't consult a lawyer before committing date rape just to make sure there isn't some loophole that can be used to let them off the hook.
Big_Yellow_Dog on November 12, 2008 at 03:51 PM
The FCC has nothing to do with cable. They only regulate broadcast transmissions.
Holy Smokes!!!
National Enquirer: Cindy McCain Having Affair
The National Enquirer has published a new political "world exclusive":
The ENQUIRER's exclusive bombshell expose as Sen. John McCain's wife, Cindy, is caught with another man!
Not only that but multiple witnesses have caught the pair lip locking on several other occasions.
"I couldn't believe I was watching Cindy McCain passionately kissing and hugging another man!"
That's the stunned reaction of an eyewitness who says he watched in shock - and snapped photos - as the former presidential candidate's wife romantically kissed a long-haired man who resembles "a washed-up '80s rock musician."
Sources told The ENQUIRER investigative team the pair have been seen at concerts and sporting events acting very lovey-dovey
The wealthy blonde heiress and her secret pal have been spotted together around her hometown of Phoenix, Arizona over the past several years, say sources.
btw, I am still waiting for proof of tens of thousands of dead terrorists. i figure i can make millions from that news nobody heard about!!!
GregL on November 12, 2008 at 02:53 PM
GregL,
That's a very valid point. Most Reagan Democrats are progressives but don't know it. After Obama's first term they will understand.
St. Reagan was one great actor and Lee Atwater and Rove took from there. It was the greatest con of all time.
marymac_memphis on November 12, 2008 at 04:07 PM
She's not waiting for McCain to become the next Viagra spokesperson?
After years of suspense and suspicion, Iran still denies it is trying to make a nuclear bomb. Analysts foresee the Iranians' success in a few years at most, but they disagree widely over a likely timetable.
President-elect Obama says Iranian efforts to develop nuclear weapons are unacceptable. At a postelection news conference, Obama said, "We have to mount an international effort to prevent that from happening."
Senior diplomats from the United States, Britain, China, France, Russia and Germany are meeting Thursday in Paris to discuss efforts to stop Iran's nuclear program with sanctions, but Russian and Chinese reluctance has stymied efforts for a unified stance.
In dealing with Iran's nuclear ambitions, Obama faces questions that include whether to keep a US military threat on the table, whether to temper or increase economic sanctions on Tehran and whether to offer economic and diplomatic concessions to Iran, directly or indirectly, in exchange for a verifiable suspension of suspicious nuclear activity.
Anthony H. Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington said in a report this month that Iran now has a technology base to make nuclear weapons, limited only by its current level of uranium enrichment...
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1226404709508&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Foreign policy doesn't have to be complicated about this. Let Iran do what it wants to do. Lift the sanctions. But let Iran, and N. Korea for that matter, know that the first irrefutable sign of nuclear weapon testing or implementation will result in their nation being turned into a sea of glass.
BobVADemocratHawk on November 12, 2008 at 03:47 PM
What, you think there is something about him physically that might, just a little, bother Republican voters? Or is it that his religion is a problem for Republicans...you know how they hate them Pope-kissers.
Course, it didn't seem to bother the people in Lazyanna...guess anything was better than a WOMAN.
You Report, We Marginalize
By Harold Meyerson
Wednesday, November 12, 2008; Page A19
To: Mr. Roger Ailes
President, Fox News
Dear Roger,
You should be sitting when you read this, because I'm writing to apologize.
In times past, I've had harsh words for Fox for its consistent misrepresentation of the news. In 2003, I cited a survey from the Program for International Policy Attitudes (PIPA) and the Knowledge Network that showed that 45 percent of Fox viewers believed that the United States had uncovered incontrovertible proof that Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda had worked together; that we had found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq; and that a majority of peoples in other lands supported our war in Iraq. In case these bizarre misconceptions merely reflected the a priori beliefs of President Bush's supporters, PIPA further documented that Bush backers who got their news from other networks had a decidedly firmer grasp of the facts.
Big_Yellow_Dog on November 12, 2008 at 03:51 PM
The FCC has nothing to do with cable. They only regulate broadcast transmissions.
Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on November 12, 2008 at 04:04 PM
Huh?
About the FCC
The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is an independent United States government agency. The FCC was established by the Communications Act of 1934 and is charged with regulating interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable. The FCC's jurisdiction covers the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and U.S. possessions.
Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on November 12, 2008 at 03:53 PM
DPD,
That's why we have to change all those tax laws that encourage the multinationals to offshore our jobs. Let's make them invest in this country again or we'll start denying them any opportunities to make profits here.
Executive compensation, mergers and takeovers, and shareholder return need to be "reformed." We need to rebuild equity and assets on our shores.
Bush decided that this was going to be a socialist country, let's start making his dreams come true...at least for the top 2% and their minions.
When are we going to pass laws prohibiting convicted felons from serving and receiving pensions from the Senate and the House of Representatives?
Group Calls For FBI, Senate Investigation Into Coleman
November 12, 2008 01:45 PM
A good government group in Minnesota has filed two letters -- one to Congress the other to the FBI -- asking for an investigation into allegations that Sen. Norm Coleman's family received $75,000 in potentially illegal payments from a friend and benefactor.
The Alliance for a Better Minnesota sent letters on Wednesday to the Minneapolis office of the FBI, as well as to the Democratic and Republican chairs of the Senate ethics committee.
The FBI version requests an investigation into "allegations of fraud ... allegedly committed by Minnesota residents and companies and were allegedly pursuant to a scheme to benefit one of Minnesota's U.S. Senators, Norm Coleman." Read the full letter here.
The Senate version -- addressed to Sens. Barbara Boxer and John Cornyn -- is a "complaint against Senator Norm Coleman," for potentially violating Senate rules.
Senator Coleman and his wife may have accepted and, subsequently, failed to report gifts worth $75,000. These actions constitute a potential ethical violation on the part of Senator Coleman, and deserve further investigation by the Senate Ethics Committee. As the recent conviction of Senator Coleman's colleague Senator Ted Stevens demonstrates, strict enforcement of the Senate's gift rules is critical to maintaining the public trust. We request that the Committee undertake this investigation immediately.
BobVADemocratHawk on November 12, 2008 at 03:40 PM
Bob,
It might actually help the economy if a few of these credit card companies went broke. They only encourage people to act irresponsibly...so they can profit off their excesses. Enough with these parasites. Either they start offering good financial products are they should go under.
GregL on November 12, 2008 at 03:52 PM
Will miracles ever cease? ;-) There is a time and place for everything. And while I can agree with their right to protest, and protest they should, that incident was just plain wrong.
marymac_memphis on November 12, 2008 at 03:56 PM
And yet the Republicans will scream to the high heavens when we propose extending unemployment benefits or increasing funding to food stamp programs stating we're creating welfare queens. The only welfare queens being created right are the incompetent money-worshipping "ho's" on Wall St.
marymac_memphis on November 12, 2008 at 04:07 PM
Take it with a grain of salt, Mary. It did come from the National Enquirer though, in their defense, they did break the story on former Sen. Edwards' (D-NC) affair. Pictures, we want pictures!
SandyH on November 12, 2008 at 04:10 PM
I was a nineteen year old PFC in the U.S. Army for that election and got played like a chump, too. Speaking as a former "Reagan Democrat", I can say from experience that comment is spot on though I must admit that twenty-four years later I find the "Lou Dobbs" political center a much more comfortable place.
GregL on November 12, 2008 at 04:22 PM
The FCC regulates the use of the satellites and microwave transmissions that beam the signal to cable providers, but they don't regulate program content. The idea is that people pay for cable so they should know what they are getting in to. That's why HBO can show boobies and have characters swear a lot.
SandyH on November 12, 2008 at 04:25 PM
Sandy: I think that executive compensation should be based on a percentage of the lowest hourly wage of an individual employed for more than 6 months. For instance, any company who wishes to do any business with the federal government (receive loans, eligible for contracts or grants, etc) may have no executive whose total compensation is greater than 30 times the hourly wage of the lowest paid employee. If the lowest paid employee makes $6 per hour, then the executive may not receive compensation (salary, bonuses, perks, etc) greater than $374,400. What do you think?
BobVADemocratHawk on November 12, 2008 at 04:16 PM
Bob,
I believe that was our policy with Pakistan. It didn't work. You can't threaten something that you aren't willing to follow up on.
Besides, annihilating Iran would result in us being targeted in the future by any number of third world countries who want to enact revenge.
We once worked out viable nuclear arms treaties. We can do it again...if we are willing to negotiate in good faith instead of beating our chests. The Persians are the original horse traders; they will deal for something better.
how can sally and few geeks be on here 24/7 and say he works or is wellfare king
marymac_memphis on November 12, 2008 at 04:38 PM
mary,
I think that would make sense to most people making less than $250,000 a year unless they subscribe to the same hate radio stations as Joe the Plumber.
The way to turn this country around is to take bold action like what you are suggesting. What we've been letting the Republicans to do for the past 15 years with our economy could have us all starving soon.
I don't see any other choice but to give something like this a try. Where did you get this formula?
BobVADemocratHawk on November 12, 2008 at 04:34 PM
Bob,
Lou Dobbs was a Republican before he figured out that his future was as a media pundit. Don't trust him as far as you can throw him. I can agree with some of his rants, but I never forget where he came from and how rich he is.
We once worked out viable nuclear arms treaties. We can do it again...if we are willing to negotiate in good faith instead of beating our chests.
Sandy: You are correct, we did have good, solid treaties; however, the Bush administration tore them up and threw them into the trash. It is going to be very difficult to negotiate (with anyone) when they are now very aware that a new President/Administration can - at will - just trash international agreements made in good faith by a previous administration. Even if they are willing to work with President Obama and even they know that President Obama can be trusted, the American people allowed themselves to be fooled into electing, not once but TWICE, the worst, stupidest president in history. It's going to take more than one election to convince other countries in the world that we (the American people) have learned from our mistakes. I just hope that they will give us a chance to do so before WWIII gets started because no one trusts us anymore and I can't say that I blame them after Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II being 3 of the last 4 Presidents.
Hey, Obama doodles like John Lennon. And he puts a mark through the O in his signature. The media divas are saying that means he doesn't like his name.
Who would call their kid Barack Obama? Apparently, any number of new parents around the world.
marymac_memphis on November 12, 2008 at 04:56 PM
mary,
Since this election, I think that "light at the top of the hill" is shining brighter than ever to countries all around the world. You have to be smart and you have to face reality. We showed the world we can still do both...and work to make our American Dream come true.
The Declaration of Independence is a living, breathing document just as our Constitution is. They still attract the best and brightest around the world to our cause of peace and the common good.
A great way to create more jobs would be to bust up all the conglomerates. Instead of 6 companies owning over 90% of the media outlets we should go back to the pre-Reagan formula of networks can only own 5 TV stations, 7 AM and 7 FM stations, and couldn't have more than 1 of each in the same market. There was also a provision against media companies owning the main newspaper and a TV station in the same market.
This way, instead of (for instance) Clear Channel owning 7 radio stations in the Chicago market alone, it would have to sell most of them.
That way, there would not only be a diversitty of opinion and content, but there would also be 7 different sales staffs, bookkeeping ofices, program directors, etc. A lot of them would farm out certain things like payroll to companies that specialize in those things but that is to be expected.
GM should be broken up into its component companies. Nabisco /Kraft and Exxon / Mobil should be split too. It wouuld only help foster competition and cut down on those exorbitant bonuses based on percentages of income and profit bonus payout to the same handful of billionaires.
The Dow would go NUTS with all the new IPO's.
Where did you get this formula?
79
SandyH on November 12, 2008 at 04:48 PM
I don't know where I got it. I think I just sort of came up with it after reading an article by either Stiglitz or Krugman where the author compared executive salaries from the 1950's and 1960's in relation to worker's salaries in that manner. My point was not so much the use of thirty (that was just an easy round number), it could be greater or smaller. My primary point was simply to make executive compensation a multiple of the salary of the lowest paid worker.
Bob re your 3:15
I would be less offended by folks coming into a gay bar throwing holy water and rosaries. Although I wouldn't like it, it isn't a place of worship. Whether I believe what someone else believes or not, that is their "house of God" and it should be treated as such.
People protesting in front of a church? No problem. Walk inside and you have crossed a boundary.
but they have the best reward points.
GregL on November 12, 2008 at 03:52 PM
And it's probably the reason they are going broke.
Who ever thought up these rewards programs should be hung. They are expensive and hard to manage. Credit card companies, airlines, and hotels should be improving their products not dumping their assets and profits into these dumb incentives programs.
No wonder so many American companies are in trouble these days. They can't figure out if they want to be in the sales promotion business or produce products and services.
It's time for these programs to die a natural death, imho.
Mary, and Sandy. Here is an interactive site that shows the outrageous growth in CEO pay as compared to the employee salaries. (1970 it was 28X, in 2005 it ballooned to 465X)
Just move the cursor along the bottom of the black rectangle.
Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on November 12, 2008 at 05:17 PM
Thank you! I've been looking for something like this!
SandyH on November 12, 2008 at 05:15 PM
United Airlines sent me an email last week and said I had until March 31, 2010 to use up my miles bonus points or lose them. I "went shopping" on their web page and they raised all their "prices" so I have to charge a boatload on my United card in order to use the points I already have. It's a racket.
Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on November 12, 2008 at 05:08 PM
DPD,
Gee, that sounds like free enterprise. Now who did you say came up with re-instating that monopoly idea? Couldn't have been St. Reagan and his conservative Republican Party.
It's pretty obvious that the GOP has been selling something other than what they've been trying to represent to the the sheeple. Why can't they be honest about anything?
Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on November 12, 2008 at 05:24 PM
DPD,
They have to kill it or its going to kill them.
It's sort of like this election. Enough is enough. We had to put the Republicans out of their misery; they're in over their heads.
I need to get back to work. Deadline approaching.
bbl, maybe.
Blue or any other attorney, or anyone who knows:
I can't help by wonder why William Ayers has not sued S. Palin and the entire Republican Party for defamation (?spelling), libel and slander. The man has never, ever been convicted of anything and yet, thanks to Sarah Palin and the RNC, a portion of this country considers him evil incarnate. By virtue of writing books and serving on educational committees, did he become a public figure who is somehow not entitled to the protections afforded any American Citizen?
Good question, Mary. I was wondering the same thing. That Professor Khalidi did threaten to sue when they started smearing him, and that BS fest calmed down real quick.
But, as the saying goes, "Revenge is a dish best served cold".
WOW - If this is correct, it would be a gift from GOD!
Doctors say marrow transplant may have cured AIDS
By PATRICK McGROARTY, Associated Press Writer – 41 mins ago
BERLIN – An American man who suffered from AIDS appears to have been cured of the disease 20 months after receiving a targeted bone marrow transplant normally used to fight leukemia, his doctors said Wednesday.
I wasn't talking about sewage though except in reference to your CT drinking water
my mistake. I meant City water running through pipes to people's homes, and called them the sewers by mistake.
Ankorage I am sure, has City water , Not wells !
That is oil they drill and well, numbie, not water.
Shows how much an on-line Mensa knows. all this blabber about wells! Quit trying to pretend you know something. You would never ever make it out in the real world. That is why you hide out in the bowels of the USA !
THERE IS A NEW OPEN THREAD UNDER THE VIDEO POST ON THE FRONT PAGE CALLED "COUNTDOWN TO THE INAUGURATION"
rjsnj on November 12, 2008 at 05:51 PM
RJ - This is the Wednesday thread - it's just the "morning" thread and - of course - it's no longer morning but hey, I'm not complaining - I'm just thankful that we got a new thread today!
SandyH on November 12, 2008 at 04:43 PM
Who says we shouldn't be willing to follow up? The Iranians aren't stupid. If President-Elect Obama makes it clear that is his policy, I have no reason to believe that it would not be taken seriously.
Also, the annihilation of Iran, God forbid that necessity, would put the world on notice that we mean business in no uncertain terms. And I seriously doubt too many tears would be shed about this. No country, including us, should be allowed to test nuclear weapons any more. Nuclear weapons are not defensive, they're offensive and they have one purpose only, indiscriminate mass destruction. But peace is always preferable to war and I sincerely hope there is a more viable diplomatic solution.
SandyH on November 12, 2008 at 04:52 PM
Like you, I can agree with some of rants as well. But usually, IMHO, Mr. Dobbs calls it straight down the middle and that is something I can respect, even when I disagree.
Cate on November 12, 2008 at 05:15 PM
We are in complete agreement on this occasion, Cate. There is a time and a place for everything.
This is a copy of an original e-mail sent out to voters across America.
Before anything else
From: David Plouffe, Barackobama.com(info@Barackobama.com)
Sent: Wed 11/12 08 1:19 pm
To: ( enter you e-mail address here )
Dear ( your name here )
Our friends at the Democratic National Committee laid it all on the line to bring change this year.
We've been reviewing the books, and the DNC went into considerable debt to secure victory for Barack and Joe. It took unprecedented resources to staff up all 50 states, train field organizers, and build the technology to reach as many swing voters as possible.
It worked.
But it also left the DNC in debt. So before we do anything else, we need to help pay for this winning strategy.
The DNC's 50-state field strategy was crucial to our campaign's success, as well as victories for Democrats up and down the ballot. Their organizing infrastructure allowed us to compete -- and win -- in states that seemed insurmountable just four years ago.
They took out substantial loans to make it happen. The DNC didn't hold back, and now, neither can we.
You were there for this campaign when we needed to reach out to more voters and compete in more states. Now we're relying on grassroots supporters like you to come through for this movement once again.
We'll get to work transforming this country. But first, we need to take care of the DNC.
Please make a donation of $30 or more today and receive your Obama Victory T-shirt:
Thank you for everything
David Plouffe
Campaign Manager
Obama for America
New York Times
"For the presidential election, the candidates themselves have raised $1.5 billion since the race began in January 2007. This is the first time that candidate fund-raising has topped $1 billion. It is also double the amount candidates raised in 2000, and triple the amount candidates raised in 2004, according to the Center’s report.
More than $1 billion of the $1.5 billion collected by candidates was raised by just three. Senator Barack Obama has raised a record-shattering $621 million, and Hillary Clinton and John McCain raised a combined $485 million."
So let’s get this straight. You raised $621 million for your campaign. You are in debt and asking ME for more. If you can't balance your own budget with all time record fund raising. How do you expect to balance the budget for my country, U. S. A .
We won this election, however, we must never forget that we are for all of the people...not just the wealthy like the republicans. We must never be afraid to stand up for what is wrong and we must never let the republicans turn "Liberal" into a dirty word. We must never become hatefull and angry like the republicans. We must always look for better ways to do things and keep an open mind. We will strive to make the world a better place.
A New Chapter of US History: A Bi- Partisan Idea and No More Crooks
In November of 1973, President Richard M. Nixon gave a televised press conference in which he denied his involvement in the Watergate cover-up by saying a famous quotation “I am not a crook”. Nine months later, on 08/08/74, Nixon resigned. Richard Nixon avoided an impeachment trial and removal from office through his resignation. One month later, President Gerald Ford issued an unconditional pardon which saved him from possible prosecution. Nevertheless, 40 government officials were either indicted or jailed. In June of 2005, Mark Felt, a former FBI official was revealed to be the anonymous source "Deep Throat", who helped Washington Post reporters Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein uncover the Watergate scandal.
As matter of fact, Nixon is a crook, based on the legal definition. Moreover, he is a crook, based on the ethics code of an elected official which he broke by lying to the public. Perhaps a broad elaboration of this historical quotation for any human being may help me to understand the reason for Senator Obama’s landslide victory of this election. A crook is a person who puts his or her personal fame or partisan agenda before the ethics principle; a further extension to this definition, one who makes wrong judgments of a fellow human being, a racist, a fanatic religious believer, a corrupt person, a partisan talk show host, etc… could be defined as a crook too. Then the answer for such a historic victory is Senator Obama’s well-discipline presidential campaign, and his on-target political agenda: the agenda of “Change for America” is an extremely timely goal to eliminate many crooks in politics, in business, in education, in religion … who have existed in the past decade.
Senator Obama’s landslide victory attests that Americans are sick of the current crooked policies, and wish for a real change from Senator Obama. It also attests that the majority of Americans just woke up after eight years of sleeping due to a powerful system of Republican propaganda through many crooked conservative talk show hosts. It also suggests that Americans wish for a change of new doctrines in all aspects as Senator Obama promised during his presidential campaign.
Is the new president able to fulfill his promises when he inherits no assets but only many liabilities from eight years of the Bush Administration [McCain’s Negative and Misleading Presidential Campaign A Dilemma for Vietnamese Americans During Election Season,
http://forums.mercurynews.com/topic/presidential-election]
As a Harvard law graduate with a strong passion for community service and a brilliant idea of political change, Senator Obama has met the need for a new U.S. historical chapter. A remarkable skill of organizing an effective presidential campaign and an outstanding gift for communication have earned Senator Obama the new presidency of the United States, and also prove that there is a high probability for his presidential promises to be fulfilled.
A landslide victory for Senator Obama means that Americans are sick of being lied to and misled by the Bush administration, especially those policies concerning the economy and the wrong war in Iraq. Moreover it shows to the world that racism in the United States has been reduced to a minimum level.
As for the Vietnamese–American point of view, a victory for Senator Obama also means they are frustrated by the current U.S. foreign policy toward Viet Nam and China regarding such economic and political favoritism which can be translated as “Dirty Business Man” and “Sleeping With Enemies” policy. The bottom line is that the current U.S. hypocritical policy toward the present fascist governments of some countries such as Viet Nam and China’s current colonial expansionism toward Southeast Asian countries angers many Vietnamese-American voters [What Does a Landslide Victory for Senator Obama Mean?
http://www.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=6312700#6312700]
How can Americans cooperate with our new president to cope with such liabilities? Is it time to forget the past and to look ahead? Is it time to remember and to get inspired as President Kennedy took the oath of office on that chilly Inauguration Day in 1961 and called upon all Americans to "ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country."? Is it time for Americans to give up selfishness, personal interest, and fame? Is it time for Americans to get rid of the many crooks who will be an obstacle for our sacrifices and future human civilization? Is it time for Americans to give up partisan ideology in order to pursue a common goal: Together we will overcome all obstacles ahead and we will be the respectable leader of the world.
It is time for Americans to ask their 44th US to act quickly and fulfill his presidential campaign’s promises. How can he define and appoint a new effective bi-partisan cabinet to unite Americans, instead of dividing Americans as Bush’s policy did during the past eight years? How can he come up with a new, feasible economic policy to cope with the current turmoil of the world economic crisis? How can he balance the national budget and pay off the U.S debt to foreign countries in the future? How can he design a new doctrine of US foreign policy to change the current world situation from current wars between nations and hate to harmony and peace with the US still as the respectable leader of the world? How can he define the “Fairness Doctrine” in communication to eliminate many partisan crooks? How can he fix the Republicans’ crooked education policy “No Child Left Behind? Specifically, what are the responsibilities of students, parents and teachers? How can he fix our social security system and develop a health care system for all Americans? … The bottom line is Americans need a new concept of partnership with brilliant ideas, and there will be no more places for dirty crooks in all aspects.
Tran Van Thuong (11/07/08)
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