Tuesday Open Thread
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Comments (45) «
Just a question? Why is the media spending so much time on John McCain and Sarah Pallin?
hey whose counting but not fer nutin the democrats picked up seven house seats in the northeast last tuesday and murtha won by 16 percentage points....but hey whose counting?
sorry virgo1 but i can't get over my fascination with sarah. i guess it's because she helped us win so much and now even after having crashed the republican party she is still shooting her mouth off and making no sense. maybe i am hoping she will represent them for the next decade or so. then we can have more stuff like this:
""Show me where the open door is. Even if it's cracked up a little bit, maybe I'll plow right on through that and maybe prematurely plow through it, but don't let me miss an open door," Palin said in an interview on Fox News' "On The Record" program. She did not specify which office she might be interested in seeking."
WTF?
Good Morning,
This is for cate, if she hadn't already seen it. Thousands of Californians came out protesting against the prop 8 decision last weekend and are trying to take it back to the courts. I guess there was progress made in that 40% were for these rights 8 years ago here and now it is about 50%.
With ignorance and emotion ruling the battlefield on this issue, it is still a handy tool to get conservatives fired up to vote. The Belgians seem to have a good working solution in this particular that may be useful in the states as well:
"How gay marriage is allowed in belgium
We have two marriages (NO, not one for gays and one "regular ;-))
1) The legal marriage. Non-religious ceremony performed by a government official (mayor and the like). This extends all the (legal) rights to the couple, doesn't matter if they are gay or not. People in this situation call themselves "married" and are so for all intents and purposes, except religious. This state is called "married for the law" and the ceremony is called "civil marriage"
2) If the couple wants it, a religious (or other, really) ceremony, celebrated under the conditions and using the ritual of the concerned religion. The catholic church here for example will not perform holy matrimony on a gay couple. This ceremony has NO legal implications and the resulting state is called "married for the church".
When people say they are married, they speak of the first. The second is private business.
It would seem to me that some religious people in the US are allowed to define marriage as only existing in (their) context 2, and extend that (personal and private) opinion to context one. A strict separation of church and state should solve that."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4433845
And to drop the dud bomb and cut the cheese and run and dodge the bullets I'm gone to work. Notice that it is just "less" being discussed.
----------
Why is the 'eat less meat' message such a hard sell?
Eleanor Boyle, Special to the Sun
Published: Friday, October 31, 2008
Eating less meat is one of the most effective steps any of us can take to fight climate change, as Nicholas Read points out in his insightful article in The Vancouver Sun last week.
However, as he demonstrates, despite evidence that intensive meat production contributes significantly to global warming, and to further threats to public health and environment such as water pollution, most citizen and environmental groups play down the issue. They ask people to walk more and turn off lights, but usually steer clear of the meat question.
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/editorial/story.html?id=bd9a94b6-4215-435e-b5b1-ac719c4bfd40
Stick a fork in it, before it explodes into your grandchildren's faces? Taste is just in your mouth, and heaven is in your mind.
peacetime,
Do you have any other suggestions for how Obama can lose the war on terrorists?
413Sally-* on November 12, 2008 at 12:47 AM
well, Stevie, he is NOT going to fight Terrorists like Bush did. BUSH LOST, in case you did not notice ! BIN LADEN STILL OUT THERE AFTER ALL THESE YEARS! Al Qaeda and Taliban stronger than they ever were! What part of all of that did you miss? That the cowboy, macho, pretend you are going to blow them all up does not work??
You may not like it, but even Bush is now talking about sitting down with the rogue nations in order to combat terrorism!
So get used to it. And don't worry, we Democrats will take care of you and the rest of the small men who sleep with their guns under their pillows!
HEY DEMS, TODAY IS THE FIRST DAY THAT GAYS IN CT CAN MARRY! EVERY EXCITED TO BE SO PROGRESSIVE
Good morning, all.
Kay Bailey Hutchinson is telling Republicans that they are too inclusive...when you speak of the base we should be reaching up not down. And Senators and Congressmen should be major players in shaping the party not Governors.
Well, that's a real slap in the face to Palin. Bring in it on, Hutchinson. Bring it on. We haven't seen a cat fight between conservatives since Nancy put Babs in her place.
Gotta run. later.
Hi Tomn and all good dems-
Over the past few days over on DU, there have been so many threads re:the prop 8 etc, it is hard to keep track. Thanks for the link
However, I was already aware that some countries separate the religious and civil ceremony. At least the churches in those countries couldn't pretend that they would be forced to perform or accept those marriages.
The truth is in this country, the civil and religious are separate functions under the same heading already. You need a marriage license for your marriage to be legal. Yet a church does not have to marry you, if it doesn't want to. Look at Catholics and the divorced as an example. The Catholic chuches does not marry divorced people because it believes that divorce is sinful.
Some churches are already are willing to perform religious ceremonies for gay people, but they are not legal
I still can't get the marriage license. So ultimately, it is only the civil portion of marriage that I am denied. I already have the religious portion.
Good morning, y'all!
And Senators and Congressmen should be major players in shaping the party not Governors.
9
SandyH on November 12, 2008 at 09:54 AM
So, Kay Baily Hutchinson is more or less telling the Mittster, Huckabee Newt and McMooselips "thanks, but no thanks"?
They are supposed to be the next big things.
TomN on November 12, 2008 at 09:20 AM
Precisely. Each state should just issue a license to be married to any two unrelated, consenting adults and have no more say in the matter. The ceremony determines whether it is "religous" (sacrament) or not.
I am very happy for the people of CT, Pam. Great place to live!
Now if only they could get rid of Lieberman. :)
Blue-
Thanks for posting the Keith O commentary. I was unable to post yesterday or I would have thanked you immediately.
Hi, I was watching CNN this morning and saw an article about the GOV creating a site called republicanforareason.com trying to stir up a grass root campaign. I immediately noticed that the democrat domains were available and purchased them before any right wings could make a slander sight. The question I have now is, what to do with the site? Email me at democratforareason@gmail.com
Time to dance on the wide slopey forehead of a troll...
In a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Tuesday, 59 percent of those questioned think that Democratic control of both the executive and legislative branches will be good for the country, with 38 percent saying that such one-party control will be bad.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/11/one.party.poll/index.html
Cate on November 12, 2008 at 10:50 AM
You're very welcome. He said the words that I was thinking.
Michael Steele and Newt Gingrich running for RNC chairman? On one hand, an odious public figure whose petulance led to the shutdown of the government, on the other hand a failed lieutenant governor and failed senatorial candidate (by double digits). SWEET. I wonder if rapist Mike Tyson will endorse Steele again?
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/11/11/christmas-comes-early/
Doo-Bee-Doo-Bee-Doo on November 12, 2008 at 11:16 AM
He's just a sore loser, don't kick a man when he's down. Take pity on him....they hate that.
After all marriage can be redefined to mean anything, man and man, woman and woman, goat and man, or DoPePyDoodle's favorite, Man and child.
20JaunC on November 12, 2008 at 11:15 AM
geesh, danny. I am wondering exactly WHAT it is that you are married to. Doesn't care if you sit 24/7 on the computer? Did she ever see what you type and what you are doing? She doesn't care? No yard work? No maintenance inside. Not trips to the store? No time spent with the kids? Just all that pent up hatred?
Are you sure she is not just a blow-up? Seems to me a wife who gave a shit about their spouse, would be bitching about all that sitting on your ass time!!!
Maybe they will pass a law where you can marry the Plastic bimbo! Then you can take her out to parties, etc! :) LMAO!!!
Thank you again, Blue.
This loss does have an upside this time around, so many straight people are being supportive, it is just unbelievable. Not only is it heartwarming, it is proof that ultimately we will get equality. Not just in CT, MA and CA, but everywhere. We will get our rights because peoples minds are changing.
Isn't it silly how these dopey Republicans think it was merely the Economy that lost them the election.
WHY would the main topic of the Governor's Association in Miami be looking at the party and how to revamp it? WHY is there a meeting going on of Republican leadership to discuss how they must revise the platform in order to win in the future? If it were merely the Economy, just wait it out until the Democrats square it away, and then step back in .
silly, silly, small minds think silly silly small thoughts !
"troublemakers with personality disorders and criminal propensities."
32
rjsnj on November 12, 2008 at 11:37 AM
Sounds like our trolls, "The Stupidest Man on Earth" and his side kick "Son of Stupid".
Maybe they can join up and pretend they have some friends so they won't be sitting here for 72 hours straight talking about feces and diapers, like they did last Thanksgiving, Christmas and New Years.
The sore losers just need to GET OVER IT!
34rjsnj on November 12, 2008 at 11:41 AM
hi rj,
these sore losers did not have the balls to come in on election night or even for a few days after. they were lying on their beds, "Wahhhhh, Wahhhhh, we lost , they won. The Better man won after all."
Of course a lot of it had to do with the economy, but even had the economy not been bad, that old man, that Religious Witch, and all of those Senators and House Repugs who lost would still have lost. WHY do they think they lost all those seats back in 2006?
Abortion and gays did not work this time. the american people woke up. This Occupation of Iraq and 4200 dead boys for nothing. The Price of Gasoline, Katrina indifference , supposed tax breaks that we, the middle class never saw, Environment forgotten. Spying on phone calls,Library records, medical records, bank records. Talk of more war with Iran and Syria and even trying to start up the Cold War with Russia again!
The american people had it. This party will not recover for a long, long time, and I shall help make sure it does not.
24% approval in today's poll. A NEW LOW for Chimpy!
The lowest in polling history. How long until this POS is in single digits?
All I can say is I sure hope those 78% who don't call themselves liberals keep on voting the liberals into office!
LOL!
They vote coservative, not liberal.
42JaunC on November 12, 2008 at 11:52 AM
duhhh, I wonder why they call them 'Democrats" then? Not because they vote 'coservative'!
They mainly vote Democratic, but vote otherwise on some issues.
You see----Democrats are open minded and come in all types. They do not Lock step with the party the way that Republicans do. Even a Susan Collins, moderate Republicans follows orders when told "this is how you will vote" on a bill.
Too bad the Republican party was not more Independent minded and had some guts. They were all Bush boot lickers !
I just tossed my Bush countdown calendar. He's toast...it felt great to lose that baggage.
No More Center Right (that is, if there was ever one!!!) Welcome to the Left !!
"Sure, this is a center-right country, but only if you substitute addition for analysis. There are more conservatives than liberals — as there has been for years. So add them to the 44% of the electorate that says they are "moderates," and you get a center-right majority.
But do a little analysis. "Moderate" isn't a place holder, as voters who describe themselves that way have attitudes on the issues of the day. And when you look at attitudes, rather than addition, there is no question: Conservatives have had their day. This is a center-left, not a center-right nation.
The Center for America's Future joined with Democracy Corps to do a nation wide poll on election eve (for full report and poll go here) and with an expanded sample, we could probe attitudes of voters by political identification. What we found was clear: on both values and issues, moderates line up with liberals to form a strong majority that isolates conservatives.
On issue after issue, moderates stand with liberals, not conservatives. This is a center-left nation.
Republicans are not only an aging, monochromatic, regional minority party. They not only must now suffer the circular firing squad that follows defeat. They not only struggle to find a compelling leader or a relevant agenda. They swim against the tide. They are a largely conservative party in a center-left nation. Obama's mandate is clear. And they'd be well advised to get out of the way.
Get out of the way, Trolls. Or you will get tromped on!!
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2008114612/center-left-nation
Republicans are down the toilet !!! and it has nothing to do with Economy.
"The poll also indicates that the public has a positive view of the Democratic Party, with 62 percent saying they have a favorable opinion and 31 percent an unfavorable opinion of the party. For the Republicans, a majority, 54 percent, said they have an unfavorable view of the GOP while 38 percent hold a positive view.
"The public has a positive view of the Democratic Party while the GOP 'brand' is hurting," Holland said. "Overall views of the Democratic Party have gone from 53 percent favorable in October to 62 percent favorable now; the GOP overall has seen a 5-point drop in its favorable rating."
The 62 percent figure is the "the highest opinion of the Democrats in at least 16 years, since before Bill Clinton got elected," said CNN Senior Political Analyst Bill Schneider.
"When has the Republican Party image ever been that bad? Answer: When the Republican Congress impeached President Clinton at the end of 1998," he added.
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2008114612/center-right-nation-getting-boring
so Danny WAS slinking around on election night, just did not have the nads to come out! shame on you Danny! Lurking, but afraid to come out for a piece of that Crow pie, and to say Who Your Daddy was????? Shame shame on you! LMAO!!!
Now here's a welcome thought. Al Gore part of the new cabinet!!!
Obama's Cabinet: Start With Al Gore
Tuesday 11 November 2008
»
by: Richard Cohen, The Washington Post
BlueinIdaho on November 12, 2008 at 12:01 PM
Yes. It's obvious that he paid attention in math class and gave it 110%!
;)
AG? FITZ!! Watch the wingnuts' heads explode.
What's the matter with Kansas? Not as much as it was, if this headline from the Kansas City Star is any indication.
This will drive the conservatives crazy ---What? We're not going to just keep using this boogieman to start more wars and invade countries?
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President-elect Barack Obama wants to renew the U.S. commitment to finding al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, according to his national security advisers.
The Obama team believes the Bush administration has downplayed the importance of catching the FBI's most-wanted terrorist because it has not been able to find him.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/12/binladen.hunt/index.html
But what "Son of Stupid" fails to realize is that the "center" has moved to the LEFT.
When the Pugs and the neo-cons were stinking up the joint the Dem Pug split was nearly even at around 37% each. Now the Dems have a double digit advantage, so the mythical center by nature is more left. But that moron can't grasp the concept.
He must have given 110% in his logic class too. (If he even took one.)
I saw a comment earlier about President-Elect Obama going after bib Laden and ironically I happened across this article in today CNN website.
Just saying he's going after him is a whole different matter than actually getting him. If he's still alive, a really big IF mind you, finding him and then eliminating him is extremely difficult given the Pakistani reluctance to allow US troops on their soil.
I read yesterday t hat the Pakistani troops are none too gentle with their efforts to eradicate terrorists on their soil either, they've taken to leveling entire towns to ferret out the rats.
Obama administration to ratchet up hunt for bin LadenBy Kelli Arena
CNN Justice Department Correspondent
Decrease font Decrease font
Enlarge font Enlarge fontWASHINGTON (CNN) -- President-elect Barack Obama wants to renew the U.S. commitment to finding al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, according to his national security advisers.
The Obama team believes the Bush administration has downplayed the importance of catching the FBI's most-wanted terrorist because it has not been able to find him.
"We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our biggest national security priority," Obama said during the presidential debate on October 7.
But tracking down bin Laden won't be easy.
In May, al Qaeda released an audiotape featuring bin Laden. But U.S. intelligence officials say they haven't had a solid lead on the terrorist mastermind's whereabouts since late 2001, when he was nearly captured in a battle with U.S. forces near Tora Bora, Afghanistan.
Robert Baer, a former CIA field officer, told CNN he's talked to "a dozen CIA guys who've been on the hunt for him, and half of them told me they assumed he was dead, the other half said they assumed he was alive, but the key word here is assume. They don't know." Video Watch the hunt for bin Laden »
Intelligence officials believe bin Laden is hiding in the tribal areas of northwest Pakistan, a remote and primitive region with mountain peaks as tall as 14,000 feet (4,270 meters) that make the terrain difficult to navigate.
"If you think of this as sort of a combination of [the hunt for] Eric Rudolph, who was the Olympic bomber, and the movie 'Deliverance,' multiplied by a factor of 10, that's really what you're focusing on in trying to find bin Laden," said Robert Grenier, the former CIA station chief in Pakistan.
The region is divided up by tribes, some of them warring. Developing human sources in the area has been extremely difficult. See a timeline of bin Laden's terror messages »
"What you literally need to have is an army of individual informants, hopefully focused on the areas that you think bin Laden is most likely to be hiding in," said Grenier, now a security consultant with Kroll.
"But again, you need to have a whole lot of them because one individual who may have access to the families and the clans in a particular valley, if he goes to the valley next door and starts asking questions, he's probably gonna end up dead pretty quickly."
The U.S. government is offering a $25 million reward for information leading to bin Laden's capture, but officials who have worked in the region say the people living there would consider it dishonorable to take the money.
The United States has had some success killing al Qaeda leaders in Pakistan using unmanned drones equipped with Hellfire missiles, but those attacks have killed innocent civilians as well, complicating the political situation between the two countries.
Obama plans to send more troops into Afghanistan to push back the growing Taliban insurgency, but experts warn there could be severe consequences.
"The president is going to inherit the problem the Soviets had roughly 15 years ago during the Soviet jihad. You cannot tame the people in the North-West Frontier Province and on the border in Pakistan and Afghanistan," said Dalton Fury, the commander of special operations at Tora Bora.
"The only army that has been successful has been Genghis Khan and his Mongol horde. They cut off heads and killed everyone in the villages, and since we have self-imposed rules of warfare, we are not going to do what they did."
Cooperation from Pakistan's military has been touchy, and most experts agree finding bin Laden is just not a priority for Pakistan's troops.
Fury says the best route for the president-elect to take would be to change the dialogue about bin Laden. Intelligence officials do not believe he is playing an operational role and so has no reason to move around or communicate.
"I think it's important to understand that bin Laden had his chance at martyrdom. He was in the mountains of Tora Bora, he ran away. In my opinion, I think we ought to promote this," Fury said.
He believes taunting the al Qaeda leader may force him to prove he's relevant and, in the process, lead the United States right to him.
Despite the challenges, many experts agree it is important to capture bin Laden.
"I don't think the American people will accept him surviving and us leaving. We will be the laughingstock of the world," Fury said.
Thanks for the flush, DNC.
Nothing about the economy at all. Just the party is obsolete in it's goals!
"I'm not a Republican (or a conservative), so I won't be surprised if the Grand Old Party ignores my advice. However, a well-functioning democracy requires at least two counterbalancing political parties able to compete with each other for the hearts and minds of the masses. Tuesday's election results show that one party -- the Republicans -- may be lurching toward irrelevancy and national oblivion. The Republicans have been brutalized in the last two national election cycles and, if the reporting on party machinations is correct, seems determined to repeat the mistakes that have led it to significant electoral defeats. If the Republicans double down on the kinds of conservative-led simple-minded, narrow-issue, intellectual hatred that has led the party to great success during the last generation or so, then it will become a largely impotent regional party teetering on oblivion. The party must take three steps to avoid going the way of the Whigs.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-fauntroy-phd/hey-republicans-dont-doub_b_143095.html
PamB on November 12, 2008 at 12:07 PM
Pam, I don't even believe there are more conservatives than liberals. i believe that there are a lot of people who don't actually understand what conservatism and progressivism actually are and only THINK they are conservatives. You know, like people who say "I believe in the Second Amendment, so I am conservative." Ummm, yeah, but you believe that we should preserve the natural world and help our neighbors and pay our fair share to keep the country going and that government is responsible for protecting us from harm, be it enemies foreign, domestic, bacterial, viral, or corporate...oh yeah, and make sure our children are safe from being shot while they are playing in their front yard and so you want to make sure people who shouldn't have them don't get their hands on guns...You say you're conservative? I think not. :)
rjsnj on November 12, 2008 at 01:02 PM
Don't let their pity pary, replete with plenty of sour grapes, take anything away from the sweet victory that fellow Americans have brought upon us all.
Let the happy dance continue!
THERE IS A NEW OPEN THREAD UNDER THE VIDEO POST ON THE FRONT PAGE CALLED "COUNTDOWN TO THE INAUGURATION"
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