Post from knee-jerk politics:
ALL racism is wrong
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I am a registered independent, and very middle of the road when it comes to politics. I am repulsed by extremists on either side. I initially supported Obama, but I just don't trust him anymore. Lately I find it very disturbing when I hear some people claiming that the Rev Wright controversy shouldn't be an issue, or is just a distraction from the "real issues". This is a very real issue. The fact that a major candidate for president may very well be a racist is a real issue. It would be different if Obama went to Wright's church once or twice, was turned off by what he heard and never went back, but he stayed a member for 20 years! Now he wants us to believe that in all that time he never heard Wright say anything looney or racist? Really??? Then we're also supposed to believe that he willingly listened to this guy's rants (for 20 years!), had him perform his wedding ceremony and baptize his children, but doesn't share any of Wright's views? Seriously?? If Hillary went to David Duke rallies for the past 20 years but asked us to believe that she wasn't a racist herself, would that fly? I can see the eyebrows raising when I make the comparison to Duke, but really, what's the difference? To say that the Wright issue doesn't matter is to say that some kinds of racism are ok. I have a big problem with that idea.

Reader Comments
  
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By annie b (mcliberal) May 13th 2008 at 3:15 pm EDT
no kidding. i heartily agree! N O B A M A! clinton 08!
  
Yep
By Someonewhocares May 13th 2008 at 3:18 pm EDT
I agree..... I had actually watched something on Fox where Operah had told a reporter the reason she stoppped going there years back was because she felt like it alianated her fan base and that it would reflect upon her image in the main stream negativly. Just like Obama Wright had some negative things to say about her. Point here is obviously she got the message why did he not?
agreed....Wright is among a short list
By Vidya May 13th 2008 at 3:23 pm EDT
of unsavory characters on his rolodex...

However, I support Hillary because she is more qualified, diplomatic, has more expertise, competence, understanding, integrity and strength.... and a better track record of policy making. I have nowhere near the enthusiasm, faith or trust in him... I too feel like a vote for him would be the same as voting for McCain. I will never vote for McCain, and I hope all of you would not either...none the less, there will be little hope for the democrats if he is our nominee.
Re: agreed....
By Magy May 13th 2008 at 5:55 pm EDT
....I don't know him and I don't trust him!!
  
The Wright issues does matter
By Karstar May 13th 2008 at 3:18 pm EDT
As a Black man it proves we have some racist elements in our society.

We also have other elements. Please take it into consideration when deciding upon who you vote for.

What I am confused by is this. As Black people we know we have racist elements. However, we assume White's have more. That they hear much worse comments than what Rev. Wright said. They they have heard them throughout their history.

My question is then - am I wrong? Do whites not hear negative remarks about Black people anymore? Is the level that Black people like me think is out there - way out of line?

That is part of the dialogue we need to discuss -

I await your answer and totally understand your reluctance to back a man that you are unsure of. It is just taken for granted in the Black Community that Hillary and most Whites have heard much worse. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By WRM May 13th 2008 at 3:24 pm EDT
Oh the comments from whites are (unfortunately) out there. Pity that some people are so ignorant!
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 3:26 pm EDT
Yes, there is clearly still racism on both sides, but honestly in recent years it feels like most of it is black vs white. I know it's not very pc to say that, but since you asked...
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Karstar May 13th 2008 at 3:32 pm EDT
The truth doesn't bother me.

I don't agree with your assessment.


We are talking about the last 20 years - anyway I'm out. I would love to continue this discussion tomorrow.
"feels like most of it is black vs white"
By D. Tree May 13th 2008 at 4:33 pm EDT
I don't care about "PC" (no on has since the 90's) but your "feelings" aside, blatant racism is documented and proven in several different areas:

* Discrimination in the housing market (real estate companies and rental agencies)
* Discriminatory sentencing and right of assembly guidelines that target minority communities
* Hiring discrimination base on "black sounding" names on resumes

These are all areas with proven documented institutionalized racism. We have come a long way, but we still have a lot of work to do. For some reason, people feel threatened by the fact we are making progress toward more equality. You should be happy about this - aren't you tired of bearing the burden of white guilt? wouldn't you want to contribute your efforts to balancing the equation? To do so requires some humility and sacrifice: we must be willing to admit the privilege and discrimination that exists if we are ever to lift the curse of slavery on our beloved nation.

Let me also point out to you that Sexism is also empirically proven - and no - i don't believe there is such a thing as "reverse sexism."
Re: "feels like most of it is black vs white"
By Sandi May 13th 2008 at 4:38 pm EDT
I am a woman, have I been discriminated against! Loans, sexual harrassment, jobs, mortgages. GROW UP, it is out there. It is not just the BLACK community, get over yourselves
Re: "feels like most of it is black vs white"
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 4:43 pm EDT
I don't have white guilt since I myself am not a racist. Of course I admit and condemn the existence of racism. But I condemn ALL of it equally. Reverse racism is not the cure for white racism, and it certainly won't heal any of the wounds of the past.
Re: "feels like most of it is black vs white"
By Democrat in Santa Cruz, CA May 14th 2008 at 11:48 am EDT
In the S.F. Bay Area "White People" are also on other end of that same racism you site. I have seen it when black people are in the power position. They do like any other group of people do. But you are thinking that is racism. When I was a child, everyone worked on a naval base. People always said that in order to be hired, you had to know someone or have family to get a job there. That was not racism. That was a kind of preferential system.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Sue Sue's Straight Talk Express May 13th 2008 at 3:28 pm EDT
My thoughts exactly. For example, one of my very best friends told me a story about her dad. Her dad was with her son in a mall or somewhere. A black women went by and her father said to her son, "look at the little nigger baby". Now her son laughed it off with her father.

Now with that said, I have spent the night in her father's house, had a key to his home. His wife treats my daughter and granddaughter like her own. They have lent my family their family craddle. So what does this all mean? Do I hate this man because he may harbor some prejudices deep down? No, I still love Mr. C.

But it showed me that white people do hear and say things that are insensitive and somehow, we want to condemn Obama.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 3:31 pm EDT
I want to condem ALL racism, and I certainly can't support a candidate for president that is so clearly associated with it.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in Santa Cruz, CA May 14th 2008 at 11:52 am EDT
I second million that.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By WRM May 13th 2008 at 3:30 pm EDT
My first contact with racism was in 1960 in Killeen TEXAS. I was in the Army, on weekend pass with a black friend I had recently made. As we passed a store, I suggested that we go in and he pointed out the "Whites Only" sign, and said he couldn't but he'd wait for me. If he couldn't enter, I wouldn't. I will never forget the confusion that I had at that moment. Coming from a New York white family I had never been exposed to that type of bigotry. That young man was serving his country, ready to die for it if necessary as did 55,000 others in the years to come. Has he ever forgotten the embarrassment of that moment? Did he ever have any pent-up hatred for the way he was treated? Have I?

Intelligent people have a choice to make their own decisions. I am surrounded by racists, but do I have to believe their invective? Can I not dismiss their uneducated rhetoric for what it is, a throw-back to a place in time where they were tainted by racism? I close my ears to the remarks that I abhor and pass them off as an untutored upbringing. Should I correct those remarks? Will it change the forty or fifty years it has taken for those remarks to fully regress? Perhaps the children of those unfortunate bigots will see life in a different way, and if not they, their children.

I firmly believe that Barack Obama hasn't a racist bone in his body. I believe that he, as well as any educated person, can separate vitriolic ranting from impassioned teachings, no matter what the source. I believe that his call for change in this country involves a willingness to forgive those who have taken our freedoms in the past. Those who cannot, or will not, understand that message will vote for another candidate; we understand that and would put our lives on the line again to protect your right to voice your opinion and vote for the candidate of your choice. No matter what the November brings, there WILL be change!
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 3:35 pm EDT
I agree, that was horrible. But pointing out instances of White racism doesn't excuse black racism. They are both equally wrong, and we shouldn't accept either.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By WRM May 13th 2008 at 3:40 pm EDT
I agree with your point. Obama is both white and black and, I believe, has seen racism from both sides; it is as abhorrent to him to him today as it was to me 48 years ago.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Sandi May 13th 2008 at 4:48 pm EDT
Read his book Audacity of Hope, Look at the inspiration quote. Google Audicity of Hope Quote. Read it.

Fact is injustice is about the power broker, not the color of ones skin. I am sick of it and I will not vote for Obama. I read his book and found out who he is.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in Santa Cruz, CA May 14th 2008 at 11:56 am EDT
WV exit polls suggest that 30-35% who voted HRC will not vote Obama too. So, I think we are all in a camp with millions of other people if the polls have been correct. We need to think about who else out there believes what we do.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Donia19 May 13th 2008 at 6:30 pm EDT
WRM - you're right! There is no way the man could hate whites - when the woman that gave him life, and the grandparents that raised him are white.

There is no way the man is going to hate his mother. As a matter of fact he holds his mother in great esteem. For a time, she was a single mother, on food stamps, and just trying to make it. He remembers these things.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Sue Sue's Straight Talk Express May 13th 2008 at 3:57 pm EDT
You are right black racism is wrong too. But it is not Barack that is racist. The problem his pastor has with race is his pastor's problem. Don't you understand that?

One of my very best black girlfriends is racist and it does not affect me at all. I date a white guy and she is cordial to him for my sake but the truth of the matter is, she would rather not be around him at all. So be it....her problem NOT MINE. But I love her and she is still my friend. One day maybe she will grow and see the light.........or not. Again HER PROBLEM!

I refuse to be infected by racism! I REJECT IT AND DENOUNCE IT.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 3:59 pm EDT
So you would be ok with your racist friend being president?
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Sandi May 13th 2008 at 4:50 pm EDT
Read Audacity of Hope and now qoogle Audacity of Hope quote. I have read the book of who he is and no thank you. He is a racist.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Sue Sue's Straight Talk Express May 13th 2008 at 4:55 pm EDT
Yes, because she knows she has issues, she is an HR manager and she protects everyone equally. She simply does not want to associate with white people in her own personal social settings.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 5:06 pm EDT
WOW. That defies common sense to such an extreme I don't even know how to reply. You're really telling me that you'd be ok with a racist president?
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in Santa Cruz, CA May 14th 2008 at 12:00 pm EDT
Barack is too ractist. His first book, he states that he wanted to write about Afrocentrism. That is what he set out to do but wrote a biography instead. And, his whole life has been about how to become part of the black culture. Read it carefully, he constantly feels like an outsider. He does not really feel black like most other inter-racial people. We are always between the cultures of our separate family heritages. Yet, Barrack never finds his own self. He continually seeks himself in being black. And, because he is so skewed in his own self image, he does racists things like calling his own grandmother a typical white person. I would never say that about my mother, or family.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Mary Johnson May 13th 2008 at 3:45 pm EDT
I come from Montana originally. There weren't a lot of black people around, but I didn't hear racist remarks growing up. It wasn't until my husband got assigned to Ft. Sill, OK that I found racism alive and well. Moving to Fort Campbell, KY was an even bigger shock. I have heard more racist remarks directed towards black and Hispanic people in the last year than I have ever heard in my entire life. I've heard ONE comment that came from a black person. I have had to carefully filter my kids friends. Racism is indeed alive and well. And I do think that most of it is still directed toward minorities.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By D. Tree May 13th 2008 at 4:35 pm EDT
Thank you Mary, you are thinking clearly.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Sandi May 13th 2008 at 4:43 pm EDT
Thank you. I am originally from Montana too. I have moved around this Country when I was a child, I was appauled at the race discrimination in the South, I was appauled at the racism against Indians in Wyoming. But, there is another race issue that is opening up here. Please read Audacity of Hope by Barak Obama before you vote. There is a real hate for white people, is book is named after that hate. Go on line and google the Audacity of Hope qoute. Read the book.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Mary Johnson May 13th 2008 at 4:55 pm EDT
I have read it and I do NOT believe that Barack Obama is a racist. I think that he had an extremely complicated set of circumstances to grow up in and into. I wish that more Americans could have seen the world through the lens that Barack has. Perhaps then we'd be willing to move beyond ourselves and our differences to what we all have in common. Humanity.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 5:07 pm EDT
Hmmm, I haven't read it, but maybe I will.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in Santa Cruz, CA May 14th 2008 at 12:02 pm EDT
The South is not like the rest of the U.S. They live i a world that is like 100 years behind. Most of that is due to poverty and ignorance and the wounds that come with never ending issues. When I was in North Carolina in the Army, I discovered how poor the soldiers who came from the South were and it was truly sad.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Diana M. Painter May 14th 2008 at 12:20 pm EDT
I've read a lot of posts now referencing "Audacity of Hope" and I think they might be a marketing group with the publishing company using reverse psychology to open a new niche market and get Obama elected. Thank you. I'm glad to see that buzz marketing is working here on DNC for a positive end.

And according to polling report the Rev. Wright issue isn't changing votes significantly.
Check out

Link

Seventy nine percent of people who have heard about Wright's comments says it doesn't effect the way they vote. We don't have to worry about Republican's base, they aren't swing-able anyway, and independents are even less likely to be swayed by the controversy.

The thing the Wright issue is doing is making an enemy of Obama to their base. It doesn't get votes.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By Democrat in Santa Cruz, CA May 14th 2008 at 11:45 am EDT
Ever since the 80s, the San Francisco Bay began having a Political Correct contest. If anyone here called someone a faggot or nigger they would definately be read the civil rights act.

There are two things that happened in the Bay Area. Vietnam caused people to live around military people who were culturally diverse. People from all over the world and country were stationed here. Second, that Hippie revolution also caused people to unite.

The next phase of that integration process was that black people began calling themselves niggers and gays called themselves fags and lesbians called themselves queer. So, all those name calling games became just words--obsolete.

Then, came hip hop and rap. Those two things brought about a current of integration because all people love to dance. Dance is a cultural element which brings people together.
Re: The Wright issues does matter
By MAL2091 May 14th 2008 at 11:57 am EDT
Words matter and hurt. If it didn't there wouldn't be a problem with Mayors Governors, Presidents addressing people at conventions meetings etc as... "my fellow fags and niggar voters along with you wonderfully stupid white uneducated backwater inbreeding working class people, we have made a lot of progress on reducing congestion around the mall."

Not gonna happen one because its wrong and two it still hurts and always will because its pointing out something a bout a person that has no bearing on them as an individual.

If Obama is to be judged on Wright then McCain should be Haigie and Hillary on Jessie Jackson and Monica Lewinsky etc. They are not responsible for each and every person they have ever come into contact with just as you and I are not.

They are responsible for what they say and do.
  
Please
By Sue Sue's Straight Talk Express May 13th 2008 at 3:23 pm EDT
I guess you did not read the entire transcript from the clip that was looped repetedly. He is not a racist because he would then not be able to love himself, mother, grandparents, sister ect.

You know, my dad is racist. Says awful things about white people. I am not racist at all in the least. I have a girlfriend who does not like white people or trust them. I am not.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that you have associations and loving relationships with people to whom you do not see eye to eye on. Your world view never expands if you only associate with people that are like you.

On a final note, I don't think that anyone in the last 40 years can be racist when running for public office. When you run for public office, you are serving ALL the people and the laws of this country holds each canidate to that fact.
Re: Please
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 3:28 pm EDT
There was nothing out of context about the national press club speech. It showed that those sound bytes really do define who wright is.
  
did you have a problem when Hillary
By Barb May 13th 2008 at 3:24 pm EDT
said that white americans--hard working white americans--would not vote for Obama? Cause to this hard working white American, that statement implied that ONLY white Americans are hard working. Those words came out of HER mouth, not her pastors.

All racism is wrong.
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 3:27 pm EDT
Yes, that was a stupid thing to say. All racism IS wrong.
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By D. Tree May 13th 2008 at 4:38 pm EDT
and here we have an *actual* candidate saying these things, not someone "associated with" a candidate.

so where is your outrage against Hillary?

I think your outrage against Obama for going to this church is mock outrage - it is disingenuous and insincere.

Clearly you do not feel equally about "ALL" racism as you claim - otherwise you'd be saying you can't vote for *any* of the candidates.

I think you are just looking for a way to swift boat our nominee - and that's just lame.
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 4:51 pm EDT
Yes, I condemn all racism equally, and how amazing that you know better what I feel than I do. My real outrage is that so many seem so willing to excuse it when it's black vs white. But that is NOT to say that white racism is any less disgusting. To be fair though, Hillary's comment isn't even in the same ball park as what we're talking about here. Yes, it was out of line, but let's be realistic.
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Sandi May 13th 2008 at 4:53 pm EDT
If the press allowed it, she quoted the stupid statics from an Associated PRess Report on voting blocks. That is the truth! The spin in here sometimes is unreal. What should be done is fix the media news. They brought us George Bush, a War in Iraq and a horrible economy.
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Donia19 May 13th 2008 at 6:41 pm EDT
...oh, I see - it's spin when Hillary herself said it - but it's racism when a person that's associated with the candiate says it!

By golly, I think I got it now....
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Sue Sue's Straight Talk Express May 13th 2008 at 3:34 pm EDT
I did not have a problem with her saying those things per say. There are black/white resentments and when the media and the canidates keep pointing out those differences, resentments and keep dividing us up, it is done to the detriment of our society.

Our leaders and the media have a responsibility to look past the things that we cannot change about ourselves: Our gender, the color of our skin, disabilities, ect.

I believe that Hillary is exploiting the resentments that exists and these resentments are not of her making but to those who are closed minded, these resentments tend to resenote and we cannot and will not move forward as a country and live up to the words: WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF EVIDENT THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL......

And the funny part is, when you speak to hard working Americians, White Americans, they will tout being patriotic, and yet, not believe the words in our Declaration of Independence....now isn't that unpatriotic, moreso than not wearing a flag pin?
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 3:38 pm EDT
Very true, but it doesn't make me trust Obama any more. We have the least popular president in recent history, and we're about to hand the Republicans an easy win.
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Barb May 13th 2008 at 3:46 pm EDT
if you only listen to GOP propaganda you might think that is true. If you go out and talk to regular people on the street--democrat & republican alike--then you would know that McCain has BIG problems. His #1 problems is that everyone knows he's a 3rd Bush term. Not many folks want to sign up for that. If you are going to be so afraid you might as well hide in the closet until after the election. Unless you're actually working for the other side.

Everyone who wants to vote for endless war in Iraq will vote for McCain. The sensible people will not.
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Sandi May 13th 2008 at 4:56 pm EDT
I am most sensible, thank you. I will not vote for a Racist. I would vote for Colin Powell, he was smart enough to get out of the Corrupt Bush administration. I will not vote for Barak Obama, he is too racist for me. Collin Powell has experience.
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Woman at Large May 13th 2008 at 4:34 pm EDT
Sue, you are aware,aren't you,that when the Declaration of Independence was drafted it referred only to all WHITE men ... not women, not blacks, not anyone but the white property-owning men. Our founding fathers weren't so all-fired open-minded; they had slaves though they denounced the practice, and when their slaves were freed -- and some but not all left their "owners" -- the South's rural way of life collapsed. That was the argument for slavery: they needed labor to run those places. In return they fed and clothed their slaves - and that's not to excuse the practice at all, but to say that ownership of a race of people was not the goal. But it has been documented that the goal of the African kings who sold their people to the slave traders was to rid themselves of enemy tribesmen and revolutionists close to them - as well as the money they got, of course. Anyway, neither blacks nor women can thank the Declaration of Independence for much of anything.
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Sue Sue's Straight Talk Express May 13th 2008 at 4:58 pm EDT
Yes I am aware of that but it was that document that ended Jim Crow. Look up Thurgood Marshall, he used the very document that was writen by White men for their purpose, in an effor to provide civil rights for all.
Re: did you have a problem when Hillary
By Democrat in Santa Cruz, CA May 14th 2008 at 12:06 pm EDT
Not all of them had slaves like you are saying. In fact many white people were slaves too. Everyone seems to think it is convenient to overlook the fact that the poor white people who worked and lived with their "owners" were servants who also had every type of abuse laid out on them too. In fact, it was legal in England to beat your wife or child with a stick if it the circumference was not bigger than the circumference of your thumb. There are many ways to control people.
  
Right on!
By charctine May 13th 2008 at 3:29 pm EDT
I wholehartedly agree! It should not be about race, it should be about who can best run the country. And darn right they would use it to smear ANY candidate if they could. People have the right to question his personal beliefs and actions. Look at what they did to Bill Clinton over an affair! That was alot less dangerous than racism! Obama should not be playing the race card if he doesn't want it thrown back at him! He seems rhetorical and dishonest with all of his damge control and backtracking. And we've already had enough blatant dishonesty in the white house!
No Race Card
By Sue Sue's Straight Talk Express May 13th 2008 at 3:42 pm EDT
Obama is not playing the race card. The race card was played first by the Obama camp along with the Gender card. When you listen to Hillary on the stump she is ALWAYS speaking to women.

If Obama spoke to black people in the same way, there would be an uproar to the umpteenth degree. The fact of the matter is I beleive that white people (correct me if I am wrong), believe in and trust people in authority way more than black people.

We do not believe or subscribe to everything our pastors say. I know I don't and I am catholic. Please if I listened to the church, I would not use birth control, would not be pro choice, would not have supported civil unions, and the list goes on. If I listened to what you all tout here, I should have left the church because of the sex abuse scandals. But I choose to stay because of the community, the body of Christ.....has nothing to do with who is in the pulpit each Sunday. As a matter of fact, we get a lot of visiting priests due to the shortage.

Finally, and I am going to go ahead and say it, if you are black and you are in a city with a great deal of black people, and you are a politician, you cannot connect with the black voter without joining a church. I think the church Obama belongs to is the largest black church in Chicago....someone correct me if I am wrong. But the fact is that who is to say that he simply did not join the church for the community? An electorate? I am not saying that is the case but that would factor in to where I attend. Perhaps I am an ass (smile).
Re: No Race Card
By Sue Sue's Straight Talk Express May 13th 2008 at 3:44 pm EDT
Race card played by the Clinton camp is what I ment to say.
Re: No Race Card
By Mr Bill May 13th 2008 at 3:49 pm EDT
Sue Sue, that is an old dead argument which sprouted from a lie started by the Obama camp, the Clinton's are not racist and have not played the race card and to accuse them of that smacks of hate and bigotry on the accusers part
Re: No Race Card
By Sue Sue's Straight Talk Express May 13th 2008 at 4:00 pm EDT
I am not calling the Clinton's racist. I am simply saying they are opening wounds and doubt where we do not need it. That is why the Super Delegates are leaving them.
Re: No Race Card
By Sandi May 13th 2008 at 4:29 pm EDT
Hope does NOT float on Michelle Obama's speech, IT WAS A RACE CARD PLAYED! Bill Clinton's remark was about the vote Obama did to fund the WAR! LIES DO NOT CUT IT WITH ME ANYMORE! FUNDING THE WAR IS SUPPORTING THE WAR.
You show me Hillary Clinton speaking out against the Iraq War in 2002, a mere 1 year after 9/11 and I'll agree with you
By D. Tree May 13th 2008 at 4:41 pm EDT
Otherwise, NO they are not the same.

Only ONE of these people had the courage to speak against this war in October 2002, in the midst of a contentious bid for re-election, and I'll give you a hint: it was not Hillary Clinton OR John McCain.
Re: You show me Hillary Clinton speaking out against the Iraq War in 2002, a mere 1 year after 9/11 and I'll agree with you
By Mr Bill May 13th 2008 at 4:56 pm EDT
DT don't get me started on that Obama was right about the war, he is just like W in that respect Bush salvaged his political career and defeated the Democrats always talking about 9/11. Now Obama who was not in the position of those who voted, did not have their pressures and was not lied to like those who voted is making his political career on getting it right once. What has he done to stop it since he hs been in the senate, he constantly votes to fund it, he has not introduced legislation to end he just talks and talks as a matter of fact all he does is talk, he has not done one thing he can point to as an accomplishment since taking office, not one
Re: You show me Hillary Clinton speaking out against the Iraq War in 2002, a mere 1 year after 9/11 and I'll agree with you
By Mr Bill May 13th 2008 at 4:58 pm EDT
I take that back he got funding for a hospital his wife is connected to somehow, big woop
Re: You show me Hillary Clinton speaking out against the Iraq War in 2002, a mere 1 year after 9/11 and I'll agree with you
By D. Tree May 13th 2008 at 5:28 pm EDT
Mr. Bill I am speaking from my experience: I was at the protests, and let me tell you it *mattered* that Obama stood with us when very few public figures had the courage to speak out.

That's all the evidence I need, because I was there and I know what it meant to all of us who tried to stop this war from happening.

This just cannot be dismissed, and it is strength for our party going into the election. Remember John "for the war before he was against it" Kerry? Never again.
Re: You show me Hillary Clinton speaking out against the Iraq War in 2002, a mere 1 year after 9/11 and I'll agree with you
By Sandi May 13th 2008 at 5:02 pm EDT
Bull crap, the media pumped this war. They did not give us information. I had to get the Downey Street Memo from a British newspaper. Your telling me Bush did not lie to Congress, or to Colin Powell. He was angry about it and he was closer to it than Clinton. This dude speaking out without all the information is ignorant, as well as people getting false information thinking that they had good information should be crucified is ignorant.
Re: You show me Hillary Clinton speaking out against the Iraq War in 2002, a mere 1 year after 9/11 and I'll agree with you
By D. Tree May 13th 2008 at 5:30 pm EDT
I guess that I and the millions of others who tried to stop this war in the first place are ignorant by your book too.

Well, let me introduce you to the Democratic Base, its nice too meet you.
Re: No Race Card
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 3:49 pm EDT
That sounds like the defense a lot of ex Nazis used after the war. They just wanted to belong to something and were following the crowd. If the crowd is doing something wrong, we need to have the nerve to leave.
Re: No Race Card
By Sandi May 13th 2008 at 4:35 pm EDT
New Orleans,

DO NOT TELL ME ABOUT THE NATZIS. My mother was jewish and family died. Hilter's father was a jew and it had nothing to do with race. IT HAD TO DO WITH ABUSE OF POWER AND HOW THIS MAN PLAYED THE RACE CARD. He was neither blonde or blue eyed. IT IS ALL ABOUT RHETORIC! The card has been played!

Obama played this and when it is over it will not be nice. DONT LIKE RACE CARD BEING PLAYED, AND I WILL NOT VOTE FOR OBAMA.
Re: No Race Card
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 5:21 pm EDT
I was talking to Sue Sue, not you you. Anyway, it looks like we are on the same side of this debate.
Re: Right on!
By Donia19 May 13th 2008 at 6:54 pm EDT
Judging from your response, you seem confused as to what actually defines a rhetorical device.
  
"may very well be a racist"
By D. Tree May 13th 2008 at 3:36 pm EDT
"may" "very well be."

this has been done to death. would you judge the more than 8,000 women and children who go to the same church to pray on Sunday? would you condemn them as racist?

What about now that rev. Wright doesn't even preach there anymore - is anyone who joins that church now a racist? would you judge and condemn them?


what about the millions of members of the United Church of Christ, the (predominantly white) congregation Obama's church belongs to? would you condemn them for belonging to the same denomination?

Do you see where this kind of thinking leads?

Obama deserves to be judged by his own words and actions - *not* by someone else's. And his words and actions throughout his life show he is the person he says he is.

We shouldn't even have to discuss this among democrats - for goshsakes, we've all been accused of so many thing by the GOP why should we have to defend ourselves against each other like this???
Re: "may very well be a racist"
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 3:41 pm EDT
Yes, I would say that anyone who sat and listened to Wright for 20 years probably has some racist leanings themselves. Just like Jerry Falwell's followers are probably intolerant jackasses. Why else would they continue to follow the guy?
Re: "may very well be a racist"
By Mr Bill May 13th 2008 at 3:46 pm EDT
comments sa va, sha whas up New Orleans?
Re: "may very well be a racist"
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 3:55 pm EDT
So if someone regularly attended a church led by David Duke, you would have no problem believing that they themselves were not racist?
Re: "may very well be a racist"
By D. Tree May 13th 2008 at 4:00 pm EDT
New Orleans, I was gonna let the David Duke thing slide, but since this is at least the second time you said it:

PLEASE! No rational person would make that comparison. The KKK, has a track record of committing terrorism against american citizens. They rape, they burn crosses, they firebomb and assassinate people. They terrorize, kill, lynch, and banish people.

do not even go there with such ridiculous comparisons, get real.
Re: "may very well be a racist"
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 4:16 pm EDT
Ok then, would you have any trouble believing that an avid Jerry Falwell follower didn't harbor any negative feelings toward gay people? I would.
Re: "may very well be a racist"
By D. Tree May 13th 2008 at 4:49 pm EDT
Obama disinvited rev. Wright from being in his campaign in March 2007 a full year before any of the sound bites came out.

That's all i need to know to tell me Obama is not the "avid follower" you describe.

(BTW, our very own party leaders criticized Obama for doing this... Wright was very well-respected - even among the Clintons - at the time).

I don't like Wright very much - and I certainly don't like his prancing around the spotlight - but I am clear headed enough to recognize the difference between his rhetoric and Obama's.

you should be intelligent enough to tell the difference as well.
Re: "may very well be a racist"
By Democrat in New Orleans, LA May 13th 2008 at 4:57 pm EDT
Yes, he distanced himself when he decided to run for president, but what about the previous 20 years???
Re: "may very well be a racist"
By D. Tree May 13th 2008 at 5:25 pm EDT